Transcript

For worshipful, the mayor of Bonsley. [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] Before I start the official agenda, I'd just like to welcome all new counselors to this first meeting for the middle of the year. I'll move to the agenda now. I warm welcome to everyone that I first order to meet in a full council, this middle of the school year. As usual, I can start by offering a few reminders. Mobile phones, if being used should be on trial end. Interruptions result in the donation to the mayor's charity, by the member involved. Can I please also remind members about the use of microphone? If you could please read your and if you wish to speak, when I will invite you to speak, please press your microphone button to turn it on. Once you have finished, please turn it off. In the relation to the timing of speeches, this will be kept by the service director for law and governance, who's rolling with the final. Please remember that there's a maximum of 10 minutes from all those of motioned and five minutes from everyone else. Item one on the agenda is Declaration of Interest. Does any member of any interest they wish to declare? Councillor Bernanke. Thanks, my employment with the NHS has to in any agenda item effects, many thanks. Councillor that is all. Thank you, Mr Mayor, as a member of Ballerne's High Homes Board. Councillor Osborne. Councillor CABE, Trevor CABE. I give it to Trustee of Ballerne's Youth, so. Thank you, everyone. Anyone else wants to declare the interest? Councillor SRI. Councillor SRI. Councillor SRI. I'm a Governor of Bandsley Hospital. Thank you. Councillor. Hello, I serve on the town's board. Councillor Niwen. I'm employed by the NHS, thank you. Anybody who have missed? No, thank you. Item two on the agenda is to approve as the correct record the minutes of the meeting of the Council on 28 March 24, and it's to be moved by Councillor MACKINSON. I will move those minutes, Mr Mayor. I'll be seconded by Councillor HOWARD. I'll be seconded by Councillor HOWARD. Is there any comments? We don't need a right to reply, I don't think. Could I say all those in favour, please? Anyone against? And is there any abstention? We'll move on to item three, communications. No citations have been received for this meeting, Mr Mayor. Thank you. Item four, substantive items, appointment to regulatory boards, overview and screening committee and outside bodies. All appointments were dealt with the annual Council last week, so it will not be necessary to consider them. Item five, auditing governance committee, move by Councillor Lough. Forming all those minutes, Mayor. Seconded by Councillor BAN, I do you know? I'll formally say in the minutes, Mr Mayor, Councillor BAN, I'm just not here. Item six, general licensing. Sorry? Councillor Frost. Yeah, thanks, Mr Mayor. It's item 85, page 18, the external auditor's update. If you remember when the external auditor came, there was no value of a money report. I'm pleased to say that the external auditor's once again confirmed that the Council's arrangements for delivering value of a money services to our residents are sound. The auditor is statutory obliged to examine the Council's value for money arrangements each year and provide a detailed commentary on the following aspects. Financial sustainability, and she knew we are financially well managed and have robust plans in place to balance the books over the long term. Governance and she would now decision-making processes as sound and complying with those. It is good. In the economy, efficiency and effectiveness, ensuring that we spend taxpayers' money well, including ensuring the cost of our services and the outcomes we get for that compare favourably. In the last report, the auditor's confirmed there were no weaknesses in any of these arrangements, and we expect a similar outcome when the present financial report for the year-to-standard comes. You know, this is a Labor Council, Mr Mayor, and more evidence of why we do the Council the year. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor Frost. I think I might need to go back to any comments now because I have just missed you with that. Is there any comments on Councillor Frost? We'll go back there, all in favour? Anyone against? Any abstentions? Item 6. General Licence, I think 6 and 7 to be taken together, General Licence in Regivative Order on the 17th of April 24 and General Licence in various, on the same date, I would imagine. Go by Councillor Green. All those in favour, please show, any one against, any abstentions? Thank you, that's correct. Item 8. Statitude Real Licence in Regivative Order, 17th of April 24, moved by Councillor Green. Only move those minutes, Mr Mayor. Seconded by Councillor Shepard. All in favour, any one against, any abstentions? Thank you. All in favour, any one against and any abstentions? Thank you, that's through, without. Item 10, we'll be together. Overview and Scrute the Committee, growing bounds of workstream, 5th of March and overview and Scrute the Committee, healthy bounds of workstream, 26th of March, to be moved by a Councillor. No more those minutes, Mr Mayor. It's to be seconded by Councillor Murray. Formally seconded those minutes, Mr Mayor. Is there any comment on the order minutes? All those in favour, any one against and any abstentions? Not a small event. Regivative, I'll have it done. Minutes of the area council, North area council, to be moved by Councillor Leach. Can't move those minutes, Mr Mayor. To be seconded by Councillor TKE. Formally seconded those minutes, Mr Mayor. Is there any comment? No. All those in favour, please show. Anyone against? Is there any abstentions? Not scattered then. Item 13, then area council, to be moved by Councillor Bellamy. Formally moved those minutes, Mr Mayor. To be seconded by Councillor Moore. Is there any seconded those minutes, Mr Mayor? Is there any comment? Right to reply, Councillor Bellamy. All those in favour, please show. Is there anyone against? Is there any abstentions? Thank you, that's carried. North East area council, to be moved by Councillor Haywood. Formally moved the minutes, Mr Mayor. To be seconded by Councillor McCarthy. It's formally seconded those minutes, Mr Mayor. Right to reply, Councillor Howard, airwood. All those in favour, please show. Anyone against? Item 15, then area council, 10th April, 24th, go by Councillor Dyson. Form with all the minutes, Mr Mayor. And seconded by Councillor Boudre. Form with seconded those minutes, Mr Mayor. Is there any comment? Right to reply, Councillor Dyson. All those in favour, please show. Is there anyone against? Is there any abstentions? Those minutes are moved then. Item 16, then area council, 11th April, 24th, I believe Councillor Kitchin's going to move the year. I formally move those minutes, Mr Mayor. Are you seconded in Councillor Kitchin? Councillor very much. Form with seconded those minutes, Mr Mayor. Thank you. Right to reply, all those in favour, please show. Anyone against? Any abstentions? Moving on to item 17, South Area Council and that's to be moved by Councillor Osborne. Okay, good morning, Mr Mayor. I wish to formally move the South Area Council minutes and in doing so, I wish to comment on the fact that at the meeting, we received an update on the work of the adult skills and community learning service from Vicki Anitz, the adult learning manager. The report was comprehensive, offering an insight into the hard work and dedication performed not only by Barnsey Council's adult skill and community learning team, but the learners themselves. We heard how entry-level, soft skills training helped those returned to whom formal education may have passed them by as teenagers to education. We heard how ESOL courses support those new to our country, new to our town to become engaged and hard-working citizens. Let's be clear. Skills are the currency with which future opportunity will be brought to Barnsey. The more and better task force within Barnsey asked to Barnsey businesses what they look for when employing new people. I have a copy of the results here. Teamworking, motivation, initiative, digital skills, numeracy, literacy, reliability, the ability to follow instructions, flexibility, resilience, understanding and presentation skills. Using these within the Barnsey Labor Force is vital. Supporting for those seeking employment is vital. The report received by the South Area Council is just the first step in making inroads into this vital support. Why? Because employability schemes work. Thank you. Thank you all, Councillor Osborne. To be seconded by Councillor Shepard. Is there any comment? Councillor Frost. Thank you, Mr Mayor. Item 40, what are the lines notes? Well, when were woods were closed in April, we took our advantage and when were members along with the when were wumblers, what the west mountain litter pickers, South Area caretaker team, and it was done by Andrea Walker, who organized the tour. We collected 270 bags of litter on the length of Cliff Road that runs through Wellwood's. It's a lot better for it, but it's a shame that we had to do it in the first place, just to throw out the cars. And also last Sunday, we had the mayhem bus came to Wellwood. Really big success, thanks to Matt Mitchell and his team for organising that, and it just shows that not only do we need events in the town centre, but we're moving to the principal towns as well. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Thank you, Councillor Frost. Councillor interjecting. Thank you very much, Mr. Mayor, same page, same minutes. I would like to echo Councillor Frost's comments, particularly in relation to the community clean up event. It adds to them that only this week we were out with the South Area caretaker team on the Brampton Canal on a fishing expedition with a difference, sandbags and traffic cones with a catch of the day on this occasion. But again, it's testament to the absolutely fantastic work that we've seen by Reece, his team, and in particular to Andrea Walker, our outstanding South Area community environmental project officer who does such a fantastic job organising all the events and delivering them on the day. She's a real credit to this Council and a real credit to the South Area. Thank you very much, Mr. Mayor. Thank you, Councillor interjecting. Any further comments? Right to reply, Councillor Osborne. All those in favour, please show. Is there anyone against? Is there any abstentions? Thank you. That's carried. Moving on to items 18 and 19. That's the cabinet of 24, the cabinet of 24, and the cabinet of 24 to be moved by Councillor MACKINSON. It formally moves those minutes, Mr. Mayor. To be seconded by Councillor HOWARD. It's the former second, Mr. Mayor. Is there any comments on those minutes? Right to reply. All those in favour, please show. Is there anyone against? Is there any abstentions? That's carried. Moving on to item 20, questions relating to joint authority, police and crime panel, and combined authority business. There's no questions received. Sorry, minutes of the South Yorkshire Area pension authority. Any comments on that? Councillor HUNK. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Time to comment on item 21 of the agenda. Right. Yes, Councillor. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. So, yeah, I wanted to speak in relation to page 88 of the agenda pack under paragraph 218, where there is reference to the transfer of the police and crime commissioner function to the Mayor of South Yorkshire. Mayor Oliver Copard has cancelled the South Yorkshire Police and Crime Commissioner panel meeting scheduled for Monday the 10th of June. This would have been the first meeting since Oliver Copard took over the Police and Crime Commissioner role for the region, in addition to his role as Mayor of South Yorkshire. Mayor Copard was a strong advocate for the merger of regional mayor and PCC responsibilities. This was despite fears that this merger would mean PCC duties would be sidelined in favour of his mayoral role. The purpose of the police and crime panel on which I sit is to scrutinise the PCC and hold the mayor to account in his work on policing and crime. This meeting delay happened on the very day that we heard that the government is asking the police to arrest less people to prevent prison overcrowding. Oliver Copard is avoiding having to answer questions on this and other urgent questions until July. This is not exactly a call 999 approach to policing. Perhaps he would prefer questions about his approach to policing to be directed to 101, as it doesn't seem to be an urgent priority for him. In Darn Eastward, residents that I represent are concerned about anti-social behaviour, burglary and boy races. It is our role as elected politicians to be working together to support the police in tackling crime, but we now have to wait until July to get the chance to question the mayor on his priorities for policing in South Yorkshire. At the first opportunity, the mayor has copped out of fighting crime. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Thank you, Councillor Hunt. Councillor MACKINEN to respond. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Thank you for your comments, Councillor Hunt. As a reserve member, obviously, the leader is not here today, but Councillor Holten is the nominated Councillor for Simka, and I shall be taking those questions and comments to him, and we'll get a written response to Councillor Hunt, thank you. Thank you, Councillor MACKINEN. Moving on to item 22, South Yorkshire Pensions Authority, 14th March 2024, is there any comments? No comments, we'll move on to item 23, South Yorkshire Fire and Rescue Authority, 15th of April 2024, is there any comments? That one removed as well. Item 24, questions by elected members. No, there is 30 minutes for this item. The first question is from Councillor Fielding. When is the hospital park and ride feasibility study going to be published? Councillor HIGGING button to respond. Thank you very much, Mr. Mayor. Thank you, Councillor Fielding, for your question. I'm pleased to be able to say that the report of the park and ride feasibility study is now complete, and it will be shortly submitted to our internal governance process, including reporting back to Cabinet for considerations of its findings. We will then be in the position to release the report, and any actions that arise from it to members and to the wider public. Thank you, Councillor Fielding, you can respond by one question. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Thank you, Councillor HIGGING button for that response. I'm happy to hear that the report is being completed. Can he provide a timetable for when it's going to be published, please? Councillor HIGGING button. Thank you for your supplementary question, Councillor Fielding. It will go through the internal governance process. I don't have a concrete time for him, but that will go through it in the normal process through to Cabinet and then release to the wider public. Thank you, Councillor HIGGING button. The next question is from Councillor Borkock. What is the Council doing to tackle the damage being caused to grassed verges, such as the area at the bottom of High Stone Avenue in Kingston Ward by cars and commercial vehicles? This damage makes the areas look unsightly and uncared for. Councillor HIGGING button for this one. Thank you very much, Mr. Mayor, and thank you for your question, Councillor Borkock. In response, I would refer you back to the response that was issued by the Highway and Engineering Service on the 12th of May, which sets out the Council's position on this matter clearly. Councillor CUNGING button, Councillor Borkock, you've got one supplementary question. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I've just got one question. Thank you for your response, Councillor HIGGING button. We are quick to talk about sustainability in Barnsley. We're clearing one of our corporate priorities. I quote, "Green spaces are accessible for all to enjoy. My question is, would buzz the Council ignore me if I decided to part my vehicle on the green spaces in front of the town, and I doubt it would. Why should Mr. and Mrs. Joe Public green spaces in our neighbourhoods be treated any different? Perhaps now is the time to practice what we preach by taking good care of our local green spaces on behalf of residents that I'd like to do that. Thank you. Thank you. Councillor HIGGING button for this one. Thank you very much. Thank you for your supplementary question, Councillor Borkock. In response to the particular point that you raised about parking on green spaces in front of the town hall, as there are civil parking restrictions in place, there are stairs there, then yes, we absolutely would take enforcement action. Unfortunately, in the areas that you refer to in your question, there are no such enforcement measures that are in place that will set out in the response to you. However, in terms of the point around sustainability and protecting green spaces, we are absolutely keen to work with communities in order to achieve that and frankly, to tackle the issue of nuisance and obstructive parking, particularly as the response set out originally to you, get the idea around working with communities on community planting, licenses, et cetera for planting in those areas, all of which we're perfectly happy to work with the community to achieve and all of which were set out in writing to you on the 12th of May. Thank you very much for this. Thank you all for your response. The next question is from Councillor Hunt. Where have areas been set aside within our public parks to improve the wildlife habitat and biodiversity? Thank you very much, Mr. Mayor, and thank you, Councillor Hunt, for your question. A number of sites have been under varying grass management plans since 2014. Most recently, several parks and public open spaces have been treated with a different grass cutting regime in order to improve biodiversity, including some overseeding with appropriate grassland mix and wildflower mix. These include Lock Park, Jump Valley Community Woodland, Old Tannering. Other sites where steps have been taken to improve biodiversity, including nature improvement areas include Dern Valley Country Park, Netherwood Country Park, Uselain at Kindrie, Parkside at Hyland, Incomen Wreck, Littleworth Park, Firthonsker East, Bres, Old Thurston Tip, the Fitzwilliam public open space at Elsica, the old sports field that could have park, range lane, events area, and high stone lane public open space. Over the last three winter seasons, our hugely successful tree planting project has also created more habitat improvement sites across the borough, including community orchards, woodland cocks, hedgero planting, and I'm pleased to report that the total amount of trees planted in barns across the past three seasons is 26,582. Thank you, Councillor Hunt, you've got the right to once up the winded question. Thank you, Mr. Merton, and thank you, Councillor Higginbotham for that information. My supplementary question is, in addition to declaring a climate emergency, a number of local authorities have also declared a biodiversity or ecological emergency. Why haven't we? Councillor Higgin, you're welcome to respond. Thank you very much for your supplementary question, Councillor Hunt, as you're right to say, we have declared a climate emergency, and there is some sterling work going on right across the Council, in order to achieve our ambition of becoming a net zero borough by 2040 and by 2045, we have a number of plans and strategies that underpin that, and there is sterling work going on, not just within that particular team, but embedding that right across the Council. I'm proud of the work that we've done to achieve that so far. We're always happy to look at, you know, other matters, particularly when it comes to improving biodiversity and geo-diversity in the borough. We've got our supplementary planning document that was approved recently at full Council that sets those principles in train for developers and on new developments, and we've got exciting developments in terms of mandatory biodiversity net gain and creating the habitat banks, where we're always willing to look at initiatives and procedures. I believe that actions speak louder than words when it comes to these matters, so I think judges buy our actions in terms of the work that we're doing. That said, there is always more work to be done to achieve the ambitions. I think that's something that will be shared by members right across the Council. Thank you, Councillor. The next question is from Councillor Fielding. Why is the wildflower area in Penny Pie Park still overgrew it grown with weeds and nettles? Councillor HIGGINGBOTTER. Thank you very much, Mr Mayor, and thank you for your question, Councillor Fielding. I am pleased to report that the site at Penny Pie Park was last inspected on Friday the 17th of May. The areas that were designated for wildflower and grasses within the site adjacent to the railway line are growing well. For a quick overview of the areas, the wildflowers found at the time of inspection in the three designated zones were as follows. I hope that members will bear with me through this little list. We had Yarrow, Yapweed, Red Campion, White Campion, Narrow, Leaf, Plantain, Foxloves, Cow Parsley, Birds Foot Trifoil, Meadow Buttercup, Creeping Buttercup, Oxide Aesie, Common Vetch, Butterbird, Herb Robert, Ragged Robin, I am sure somebody is having a joke with some of these flower types. Dandelion Aesie, South Thistle, Cow Parsley, Red and White Clovett, Mayweed, Common Metal Thistle, Brier and Dock, and I won't repeat that list again. Nettles, Thistle's and Brier were found in isolated clumps in the areas that were not touched or within or around the material tree line. The varieties mentioned were found in both the areas set out at the initial completion of the site in 2022 and within the space that was disturbed due to the new bridge construction last year and receded at the end of the 23th season. All of the varieties mentioned contribute to the diversity of the space, increasing both insect and bird life in the area. The mix of wildflowers, seeds and grasses is a perennial mix and it might not be the colorful show that people may associate with annual seeds such as poppy, cornflowers and meadow marigolds to maintain this type of wildflower area which require annual rotivation of receding. Creating perennial wildflower areas where we will cut and collect once per year in September is a more practical and cost effective approach yet still creates a fabulous and diverse space for wildlife. We will monitor the areas sewn throughout the last few months with a view to an over-so should this be necessary in due course. Thank you. Thank you Mr Mayor, thank you Councillor for that comprehensive response, tempted to ask if he repeats his list but I shall not do that. It is all well and good having a wildflower area which is all about biodiversity and I have Councillor Hunt references and it is very important but it is not a pretty site that space and it could be improved and it could be tidied up. Will he commit to doing that? Councillor Hayley. Thank you very much Mr Mayor and thank you for your supplementary question. In terms of the particular site the focus of sites to improve biodiversity and wildflowers is around the impact that this has on wildlife and natural habitats whilst it might not be as visually pleasing as some other areas we are actually achieving our aims in terms of flower mix that we have got in place so we are achieving what we are setting up to do in that case. I am glad to say my microphone still seems to be working having spilled water over it so that is a good test of the new system. The next question is also from Councillor Fielding, when is the Council going to take safety on the crossroads at the end of Doddath High Street seriously and provide improvements to the junction? Councillor Hayley, thank you very much Mr Mayor, thank you for your question Councillor Fielding, God you get your money is worth out of me again this morning. Sites are selected for the introduction of road safety improvement measures based on their collision history. Those sites with the highest level of risk receive the greatest priority. To ascertain the risk levels of sites we use personal injury collision, pick data obtained by South Yorkshire Police using the crash reporting system. This records information about the collision including the time, date, location, weather and other factors that contribute to the collision. The data is then analysed by the traffic group to see if there are concerns as to the frequency and nature of the collisions. All causation factors are thoroughly investigated and if necessary any improvement works are programmed. This type of collision investigation work forms part of the annual routine workload of the Council's traffic group. The Council has a statutory duty to monitor all personal injury collisions. Each year we interrogate the database to find the sites in Barnsey with the highest level of risk and then seek to resolve these issues with sites using the available funding. The industry standard is to examine the three most recent years of collision data. We have reviewed the data for the junction of High Street, Station Road, Barnsey Road and Doddleth Green Road for the period of 1 January 2020 to 31 December 2022 which is the latest period of validated data that is available. There has been one recorded slight personal injury collision at the crossroads during this period. The crossroads, therefore, do not currently meet the criteria for the provision of road safety measures particularly given the fact that we have sites in the borough where serious personal injury collisions and fatalities have occurred is absolutely ethical that these sites should be prioritised for road safety funding that is available and I do want to take the opportunity in reference back to the question to challenge that slightly. When is the Council going to take safety on the crossroads seriously? We take the safety of road users on every road in this borough seriously. That's what the Council's traffic group does. That's why we have the annual workload program. That's why we have the cluster site analysis. That's why we have the safer road strategy. We take it seriously in Doddleth, we take it seriously in every ward in this borough. Thank you very much. There is increased pressure on the junction and the stats that we have quoted are mostly over the period that was covered by COVID. There's a very large number of incidents on that crossroads which are not reported. They're near misses, they're personal injuries and so his stats that he's quoting will not cover a lot of that. I personally spoke into many residents who themselves or their family members have been hit or have been nearly hit on that crossroads. We commit therefore to have his traffic engineers draw a look at plans and provide a proper report to the Doddleth ward Councillors. Thank you. Councillor HIGGING. Thank you very much, Mr Mayor. In terms of the point around the data, that is the most recent period of validated data that we hold as a Council. Data is released annually and that has to then be checked by the traffic team. It wouldn't be appropriate for me to call up data that is not yet being validated. It wouldn't be robust and it wouldn't stand up. I absolutely share his concern around the fact that pick data alone is not the complete measure of an area. You have areas where you have near misses, you have areas where you have slight damage to vehicles that are not reported. What we have always maintained as a highways and engineering service is that there should be a duty on insurers to report back to the Council the data that they hold in relation to damage only collisions. That would enable us to build up a much more robust picture of what the reality is on our roads. However, it all falls down to the point that when it comes to the prioritisation of investment into road safety, the areas that have to be prioritised, have to be prioritised at the areas where we have people who have been killed and seriously injured on our roads. It would be unethical and I would not stand here as the cabinet member to say that we are going to prioritise investment in an area where there haven't been those that track record and that robust data picture over areas where it has. I simply wouldn't do that and that is that position not only involves the position right across the country. In terms of his point about investigations, we investigate concerns as and when they are raised. I can absolutely give him the commitment that as with any member in this chamber, if you raise concerns about an area we will look at it, we will give a professional assessment of the issues that you raise. Thank you very much. Thank you. Moving on to item 25, some emotion, shopping the two trial benefit cap. No, we have one hour of emotion, more by Councillor Kitchin. Mr Mann, sorry, it slipped us by, but I've got to declare a non-picunary interest. Thank you, Mr. Mayor, the same item to declare an interest and I won't be taking part in the discussion or voting. Thank you. Thank you. Going back to item 25, a motion to describe the two trial benefit cap. No, we have one hour for this motion, more by Councillor Kitchin. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Councillor HOWARD, I don't personally feel that quickly due from the discussion, but obviously that's completely up to you. Thank you everyone. I'm really pleased to move this motion on behalf of the Liberal Democrat Group, which is a fairly straightforward motion, cut and paste motion, some might say, Kevin, you know, right, right, right, you know, what is it, remake the wheel, I can't quite remember the phrase. Anyway, I hope that this is something that everyone in the Chamber can agree on today that the two child cap for claimants of universal credit introduced by the Conservative Government in April 2017 is a cruel and unnecessary policy. Our benefit system should exist as a safety net, not some kind of moral compass or set of rules to live by. Yes, maybe people should plan to live within their means, and that should maybe go for people on benefits as well as for people in work but actually life can't always be planned. Sometimes babies aren't planned, sometimes people lose their jobs through redundancy or because they become injured or run well and are no longer able to work, and the system should be there to catch them, to stop an already terrible situation from spiralling and to stop families from losing even more, basically to ensure that they can continue to afford to feed their children. Because the cost of living crisis has hit everyone really hard, and who is it hit hardest? The most vulnerable people in our society, those in poverty, and here we have this arbitrary cap dictating how many kids people should be able to feed, clothe and care for. Now, I mentioned that babies aren't always planned, and sometimes that doesn't take the form of carelessness, it takes the form of a crime, and this brings us to what is in my opinion the most horrific element of this piece of legislation, the so-called rape clause. This demands that women can claim an exception for a third or subsequent child if that child was conceived as a result of a sexual act which you didn't or couldn't consent to, or at a time when you were in an abusive relationship under ongoing control or coercion by the other parent of the child. Do note though that a woman cannot claim this exemption if she lives with the other parent of the child. It's almost like men don't ever rape their wives or their long-term partners, and it's almost like women in abusive and controlling relationships find it really, really easy to get out of those relationships. That disgraceful exemption aside, let's get back to the rape clause. This government is demanding that victims of rape or abuse have to prove, declare and relive their trauma that is clearly unacceptable, and the sensitivity and nuances surrounding such disclosures have a very clear reason why this cap should simply be scrapped. I do know that sometimes in this chamber we like to make everything the liberal democrats fold, so I want to be very clear on this. We have consistently and thoroughly opposed this policy. We blocked it repeatedly in the coalition government. We called for it to be axed in both our 2017 and 2019 manifestos and reiterated that commitment at our 2023 autumn conference. In the liberal democrats, for better or worse, members make policy at conference, so I'm expecting to see that in our upcoming manifesto too. It really is just a grim conservative policy, so it has been incredibly disappointing that the National Labour Party, really specifically care stammer, has refused to commit to scrapping it. We all understand the general election strategy, which has come upon us rather quicker than I thought it was going to when I wrote this speech, I have to say, make yourself look as indistinguishable from the Tories as possible to win those Tory votes. Side with the Tories on the anti-woke court you are refused to avoid making them a talking point. Open your doors to right-wing disgruntled Tory MPs, race to the bottom on who can stop more votes, campaign right, govern left, et cetera, et cetera. But there are some big figures in the Labour Party who have refused to back this policy or called for it to be scrapped, notably I think Sadiq Khan, the recently re-elected Mayor of London and Yvette Cooper, joined recently by a truly bizarre coalition of Sousela Braverman and the Archbishop of Canterbury. Now I hope today that the Barnsy Labour Group and others in the Chamber will join that group of voices calling on both the government and the leader of the opposition for this cruel unnecessary policy to be scrapped. Just a quick note, please Mr Mayor, obviously I noticed that an amendment has been submitted. It's a bit wet, it's arguably wetter than soon actual election announcement yesterday. It waters things down a little bit, you know, moves from a really clear call for action to sort of letting people off the hook with caveats, which we understand about when finances allow. But we just don't really want a town hall squabble on that this morning. We've all got a general election to win in various places around the country. So we'd be very happy to support that amendment, that's not a problem, and have a debate on the substantive motion rather than the amendment if that suits Mr Mayor. And just all hope that Kear Starmer does show a good bit of backbone on this one and when he gets into number 10 he unequivocally overturns this horrific and unnecessary policy. Thank you Mr Mayor. Thank you Councillor KIDGIN. Councillor FEELING to second. Thank you Mr Mayor and I rise to second this motion today. The government's policy on a two-child cap on universal credit is a strange policy. In the macroeconomic it contributes to forcing the birth rate below the replacement rate of the population. This can and it will cause serious long-term economic problems, such as countries like Japan and South Korea are already facing. A population crisis from falling birth rates in an aging population is not a fun experience for the national debt, it's not a fun experience for our pensions. We are at risk of this also and we need to tackle this part of the issue more seriously than we are doing or we do risk long-term economic harm. The economics of a pension requires to have a significant working age population to fund it. Falling birth rates does put this at risk. Furthermore, as a safety net for those in need this part of the benefit system is for the benefit of the child, to support, club and feed them. People should absolutely live and manage themselves within their means but the reality is the child is not the one making the decision to be born and should not be forced to suffer for it. Then there is the number of people who plan carefully, do the right thing and through no fault of their own end up either without work or with an extra child. When businesses fail, redundancies happen, accidents or injury or even the sorts of harrowing events Council of Kitchen spoke about. It is there to catch people who need it, to help keep them out of poverty and give them a chance to turn the lives back around. It feels like sometimes we have forgotten what a benefit system is for, to help those people in need, to help provide a minimum standard of living and to prevent people from falling into crushing poverty. The two child cap on universal credit flies in the face of this and it is disappointing that Kiyastama won't commit to something so obviously wrong and damaging. I do hope that Council passes this motion today and it has a growing number of voices which include politicians of all political persuasions including, as Councillor Kitchings noted, Sweller Graberman and the Archbishop of Canterbury. I do hope that Tom Emmons of the Chamber will join with us today and vote in favour of this motion. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor Filion. We have received an amendment to the motion in line with Standing Order 8-1-B to be moved by Councillor MURPHY. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. As we have just heard that the Lib Dems seem to be happy to support the amendment, I would like to request to move to the substantive motion to have a vote and move to the substantive motion being the debate. Thank you. We are going to vote on the amendment now, all those in favour please show. Is there anyone against? Is there any abstentions? So the substantive motion is being passed then. Do we need to have a debate on the amended motion, if that's okay with everyone? We don't need to have a debate. Move to the debate on the amended motion. Councillor MURPHY. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Firstly, I'd like to totally agree with the comments made about victims of rape and the necessary, unnecessary need to really be the horrific experiences, I'd just like to get that on record. So thank you for taking that amendment through everyone and we're expanding the resolution as read from items H2I and the reasons for this being that whilst we're happy to support people, of course, we are having better benefits and a safety net. These ambitions are desirable and supported, but when we're passing resolutions at Council we really have to look at our own responsibilities first and they have to be taken care of and recognised in any demands of government. That is our duty to our borough and the people we serve. And part of our primary functions as we all know as a Council is to make sure that children are safe, to make sure that children with special needs get the help to thrive, that children receive the best education and to ensure that children in residential care have their needs fully met. At the moment, for some councils, carrying out these responsibilities is now unimpossible. Whilst we know families are really struggling under the tool child limit cap, it would be wrong of us to tell government to prioritise expenditure for better benefits without us also telling government that we need money for all the key services and these are equally if not more important. If resources allow this expenditure, and we're now in the general election period, fantastic. If resources don't allow, are we really going to bankrupt the Council and this country? No. So thank you. I'm all the substantive motion, Mr. Mayor. Thank you all, Councillor. Councillor Hayley-Mottner, seconded the substantive motion. Thank you very much, Mr. Mayor, and thank you, first of all, for the Liberal Democrat group for accepting our amendment in the spirit in which it was intended. It gives me great pleasure to formally second the amended substantive motion. And I would like to echo the comments made by Councillor Kitchin and Councillor MACKINSON on the absolute moral stain that this is upon the collective consciousness of our country. And I hope that every member of this Chamber agrees that too many children in our borough and in our country are growing up in poverty. The impact this has on their development today and on their prospects tomorrow is enormous. And it is a job of the welfare system to provide that safety net to ensure that no child is left in that situation. Resolving that means that of course we must look at the tool of child limit and the impact that this is having on the poorest in society. And it must be looked at alongside a whole range of measures to tackle the root cause of child poverty, ensuring that children are well fed and ready to learn, ensuring that we have a properly funded social care system to support families in need, ensuring that we have sufficient teachers in schools, ensuring that children can access affordable public transport. All of these are integral to ensuring that every child has the best possible childhood and the best possible start in life. That is what I hope that the government that will be elected in six weeks time, whatever it's political stripe and we're taking nothing for granted, will have to contend with. I sincerely hope of course it is a labor government making those decisions, but let's be clear, whatever government is elected in July will face powerless public finances and a crumbling public realm. It will take a monumental national effort to rebuild this country and to fix our public finances after 14 years of conservative failure, trashing the economy, trashing public finances, trashing public services, that is the legacy of the last 14 years. Now as I say, I sincerely hope that it's a labor government that is taking power in six weeks time and as a keen political historian I reflect on the previous occasions that we have seen majority of the governments elected. In 1945, Clement Attlee elected to rebuild our country after the Second World War. In 1964, Harold Wilson elected on the base of the White Heat of Technology and the modernisation of the economy. In 1997, Tony Blair elected after 18 years of conservative destruction and sleeves that permeated the dying days of the major government. Now the next labor government that I hope will be elected in six weeks time would have to do all three of those at once and much more besides after 14 years of decline. It will take time and investment to rebuild our country and to reshape our public services including transforming our welfare system and eradicating the scourge of child poverty, where I take heart, Mr. Mayor, from the recent history of the difference it made having labour in power between 1997 and 2010. A million children lifted out of poverty, the creation of sure start, the transformation of school standards and educational outcomes, that's the difference it makes having labour in power. That's why I hope that the next labor government will have at its heart the mission of ensuring opportunity for all. Investment in early years in child development, access to childcare to support working families, just on improving schools and equipping children for the future, tackling child poverty as the motion before us today sets out, supporting children and young families with special educational needs and disabilities, ensuring that children get the mental health support that they need to thrive and building pathways into work for every child to fulfill their potential as we are leading the way on in this council. The task-based employment elected on the 4th, that will be elected on the 4th of July is huge. If we are to realise our potential as a country, it is never being more important that we get that right. That is why, Mr. Mayor, it gives me great pleasure to formally second the amended substantive motion. I hope that members across the Chamber will support that today. Thank you. Thank you. Councillor interjecting. Councillor interjecting. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I wish to speak in support of the substantive motion placed before us today. And I'd also like to place on record my thanks to the Liberal Democrat group, including the Perspective Parliamentary candidate for Old and West Chatterton and Brighton, to accept the amendment. Hundreds of thousands of children have been pulled into poverty since the Conservatives came to power 14 years ago. Joseph Roundtree Foundation claimed in October that destitution in the United Kingdom had increased by 148 percent since 2017. Just to be clear, destitution is where people are unable to afford to meet their most basic needs to stay warm, dry, clean and fed. The charity found that between 2022 and 23, a million children experienced destitution. Meanwhile, last Sunday, the Sunday Times Rich List reportedly found that the wealthiest 250 families in the world had increased their wealth by £44 billion in last year. The government's new annual poverty statistics show that 100,000 children fell into poverty into the year to April 23. That means that families have been unable to meet their basic needs or give them much quality of life beyond survival. No child in Barnsley should have to grow up worrying about where their next meal is coming from or whether their parents can afford to pay their bills. But that's the reality for hundreds in our borough. The post-war Labour government set up a welfare state in the 1940s, establishing a universal and comprehensive system of Social Security. Subsequent Labour governments introduced further reforms, but in my view, the Social Security system needs to change. We should all have the right to Social Security when we need it in our lives, yet while whilst our health and education systems are held in high esteem, Social Security is treated as a burden on taxpayers, instead of the social good that any of us may need to rely on. The people who work in the Social Security system, and there are some in the chamber today, should be valued as skilled public servants and their desire to help people in high regard. Instead, some are being forced to police and punish vulnerable people, denying them the support they need. We need to rebuild our Social Security system from the principles in which it was founded, supporting people rather than punishing them, alleviating poverty rather than driving people into it. The government's levelling up agenda is failing. What we are seeing is a deepening of poverty in the very places that the government was supposed to live up. That means us. It's clear the government could take millions of children out of poverty and help those in the most deprived places by scrapping the two-child limit and increasing universal credit. However, what is required is prudence with purpose. It's absolutely no good making spending pledges or commitments without first seeing the books. You wouldn't buy a house without a survey or a solicitous report. This substantive motion highlights the right thing to do when it comes to making prudent policy statements. A future Labour government isn't going to be offering uncosted fantasy proposals. The Labour, Sound Finances and Economic Stability are non-negotiable. We will never pay fast and loose with the economy. All Labour future plans are fully costed and fully funded. A future Labour government is going to offer change. It's going to be hope. Let's be clear. Poverty is not inevitable. It's created by political decisions and political decisions can be made to prevent it and reverse it. But those decisions need to be made due consideration to proper prudent financial management. I look forward to a future Labour government that will create market reforms to tilt Labour and housing markets in the interests of our lower-income families. Proper, fair, wealth distribution, poverty can and will fail. Change can come. That's why I support this substantive motion. Thank you, Councillor BOURN. Thank you, Mr Mayor. I'd like to start off by putting on record my thanks to the Labour government group for supporting the amended motion and as well to Councillor KITCHING for highlighting the great clause which I agree needs to be immediately closed and resolved. I'd like to start off by asking the Chamber a quiz question. What links all of the following policies? The bedroom tax, freezing working tax credits, reducing child care costs covered by tax credits, the personal independent payment disability assessment, cutting local housing allowance for young single adults and reducing winter fuel allowance for pensioners. The answer, the Tories and the Liberal Democrats, the 2010 coalition government punished thousands of people across this borough and set up the Tories for 14 years of chaos. And 14 years down the line, with the country and a mess, we finally have a chance to begin rebuilding this country and its institutions. Make no mistake, if Labour do form the next government on July 5, we will face a monumental task, an economy left broken by this Tory government, our public services taken apart brick by brick, first by the coalition government and then by the Tories and a public left with little trust in politicians. There will be much to do and very little money to do it with. Councillor KITCHING highlights an important point and I'm glad she does and brought this motion to the Council. The two child benefit cap is pushing thousands of children into poverty. That's what we're here to do. It's stuff like this, yet children out of poverty. Ending it should be a priority for any government, the public decide to elect, but it will cost money. Over £1 billion. There is no getting away from cold, hard, economic facts, unless of course your list trusts or quasi-quatting. The only sustainable route out of this mess the mess this country is in is economic competence. This means not making that unfunded spending commitments. It means supporting growth, taxing fairly and cracking down on tax avoidance and then spending this hardly for money, the public's money, in a sensible and equitable way. I am confident that Labor Government would fix this situation as soon as finances allow and I will take one point against Councillor KITCHING mentioned that our amendment is wet. Economic competence is not wet. It is the absolute backbone of any government. But we won't allow this country to be thrown back into economic disaster again. Our reinvigorated Labor Party will always protect the country's bank balance so that we can pull all of ourselves out of the cost of living crisis, blighting Barnsley and properly fund our vital public services. I have one message for the voters of Barnsley for July 4. Never again let the Tories anywhere near this country's coffers. Never again let the Tories play fast and loose with your money. Never again let them waste your money and then tell you that there is nothing left for you. Don't trust the Liberal Democrats not to prop them up either as soon as they get the chance. Vote Labor on July 4 for change, for economic competence and for our country. Thank you Mr Mayor and thank you to my colleagues for bringing this motion to the Chamber today. Just in response to Councillor Bannette's comments I would just like to say that I'm not exactly sure the Labor Party are exactly renowned for economic competence. When it does come to George Osborne's policy that he introduced this cap on social benefits for families with children, he rationalised the policy which limits benefits for families with more than two children with the contentious argument that it would motivate unemployed parents to work and make financial decisions about having children similar to those who are self-supporting through work. However, this policy has proven ineffective. Research last year indicates that reducing benefits for Britain's poorest families has not deterred them from having children but it has exacerbated their poverty. Currently approximately 10 per cent of British children are impacted by Osborne's two-child benefit cap which can amount to up to £3,000 per child annually. This research commissioned by Labor MP John Tricky suggests that abolishing this policy would raise nearly 270,000 households, almost a million individuals, out of poverty. The detrimental effects of this harsh conservative policy in driving people towards extreme poverty are evident. Yet a modest increase in social security expenditure could significantly improve the prospects of thousands of underprivileged children and families. Although we have voted the amended motion through in good faith, personally I prefer the original motion which asked for the benefit cap to be scrapped rather than this amended motion which states scrapping the cap should be considered. Honestly, I don't think it applies enough pressure to the leader of the opposition, providing yet another opportunity for a U-turn. And since assuming the role of leader since 2020, Keastam has reneged on several key policies, demonstrating a willingness to U-turn on numerous pledges. Initially campaigning on a platform that included nationalising public services, limiting foreign-arm sales and increasing taxes on the wealthiest, Keastam's current policies have notably shifted. He also promised to abolish the two-child limit and benefits cap, only to, on the 16th of July last year, declare he would not commit to altering the conservative policy on the two-child limit. Despite all this, I feel that the message even in this amended motion is clear enough and I hope it's one we hear from Labour, as well as from the Liberal Democrats. No more retreats, no more reversals, it's time to put an end to the harsh two-child benefit cap immediately. Thank you, Councillor GRIFFITHS. Yeah, thanks, Mr. Mayor. Having any children in poverty is too many, but to commit a new government to spend $1.3 billion in the current financial crisis, which we're made in Downing Street, without saying where the money coming from, is unwise, and it's typically the Lib Dems at budget time, for instance. Most welfare budgets over the last 14 years have been cut to the bone, and it started, Mr. Mayor, with the Lib Dems coalition. Yeah, reactive money is just announced when there have been issues. All spending needs to be reassessed to make sure getting the best value for money, for the budgets available, because at the minute we're spending things on the wrong things. Housing benefit, Mr. Mayor. A huge bill, 22 billion pound in 2019, and we know why, because not enough affordable properties have been built, pushing people to the private renters sector. The Lib Dems nationally passed a motion at conference to build 380,000 homes a year, and more social housing, but the Lib Dems in Barnsey, like most of them around the country, vote against new housing and employment sites, unless they're in the doing. Disability benefits are high, 39.1 billion, because of the long waiting lists in the NHS for treatment. Remember, under Labour, the waiting lists with the lowest levels and satisfaction to an all-time high. Sure, Mr. Mayor, in every child, the best start in life, one of the many achievements of the last Labour government, were closed down into the Tory Lib Dems coalition, and now the costs are being picked up by children's services. Again, this is reactive spending instead of preventative. The best way to get people and their children out of poverty is to get them a job, or a better job by up-skilling them, but it's important people are treated as individuals and give them the support they need, not just taking a box. So the pathways to work that's initiated by Barnsey Labour will help get some of the socially inactive people back into a work, hopefully get them out of poverty. Hopefully if a Labour government can transform some of the welfare services and get more value for money, it'll free up money to restore the child benefit beyond two children, and leave more money for councils like ours who do get value for money. I think it's important that people do remember what the last Labour government did, positive things they did, and vote Labour again on the fourth as you lie. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Thank you, Councillor Frost, before I bring Councillor Kitchin back in for a ride to reply. Sorry, quite wrong again. Councillor MACKINSON to respond. Is anybody else want to speak? All right, and we'll go to Councillor MACKINSON. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Thank you. Firstly, thank you, colleagues, for the valuable contributions made to this debate. It's a passionate, emotional subject matter, so thank you. All the points made actually lie at the act of the Labour movement, so it's good to see this chamber really, more or less, on the same page with this debate today and the need for change. The poverty, which we've talked a lot about in this debate, and the cost of the impact of poverty on our future generations, and their health needs alone needs to be addressed. But the gap over the last 14 years between people that have and the people that have not has got bigger. It's not narrow, it's got wider, it's got worse. And so I should urge all members here today to vote together on this really important resolution and send the message out, and lobby government. We owe that to our families and our children of our town. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Thank you. Well, we will now move to the vote. All those in favour, please show. Is there anyone against? Any abstentions? So that's carried. Just before I bring to the, it's the end of the meeting. Will I like to thank you for your bearing with me, because it is my first full council. Thanks to the Chief Executive for guiding me to wait, and I'm sure I'll get a bit better later on. So thank you very much, and I'm going to close the meeting. Thank you. [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO]