Transcript

Good evening members. Good evening everyone else listening in. Good evening to members at home. Welcome to this evening's over and scrutiny committee. How would you hear the Council chamber at the town of Wembeck-Sill? First item on the agenda. Minutes, do I have your organisation as chairman to sign a minute to the meeting of the O'fruh and scrutiny committee held on 18 March 2024 as a correct record of those proceedings. Let's hope this meeting is rather short as a net one. Apologies and substitutions. Apologies and substitutions. We have apologies. No, we don't have apologies, do we? No, we don't have any apologies and I think Council appears. We're going to join us online wherever it does or not. Additional agenda items, there are none. Disclosure of interest and dispensations, I would probably think there isn't. Anything crops up and you know the procedure. I will do as the chairman recognising you might see a fresh face here. It is Andrew Valance who is a new deputy, leader and chief finance secretary. The money name, basically. So welcome Andrew. Right, we've done that on item 5, calling and urgency procedures. Perhaps to this report to inform members of the use of calling and urgency procedures during the period March 23, to the 28 February 2024, resolve the report being noted. Thank you, Chair. This report is a standard report that comes to this committee once a year to report that actually in that period from the 1 March 23 to 28 February 2024, there were no executive decisions that were called in during that time but there were two decisions that were approved within the budget and policy framework that have deemed to be resolved as urgent decisions. Those two decisions related to one related to the UK Shared Prosperity Fund and the timescales that we had with the department for levelling up regarding ride fisheries and the other was to do with the public conveniences cleaning contract which allowed the Council to commence the tender process without delay to meet a very tight timescale. So really this report, as the Chair says, is really for information. We're not recommending any changes to the call in procedures. It seemed to be working well. Thank you, Chair. Thank you. Councillor you, you said you had a question or something just you, just sort of... Not on this item. Not on this one. Okay, sorry. Anybody else got any comments to make? No, we're all happy with that. Thank you. So that's heard by Councillor Bands, seconded by Councillor COOK, all those in favour? That's carried. Thank you very much. Item 6, draft annual report and council page 9. This is my report, if you like. Louise wrote it. So yeah, I think the resolve recommendation is resolved, contents of the overview and scrutiny committee draft annual report. The Council will be considered and recommended as appropriate to Council. One glaring omission we could say is that Councillor Bands is actually an MBA, and it should state that. In the papers, Councillor Keating is also an MBA. It's written down as she is and Councillor Bands isn't. So we will sort that out for full Council. Apart from that, all I will do is say thank you to you members, especially the new members on this committee. I don't know if I should say enjoy it your first year, or enjoy it your first year. But hopefully you've found it interesting. You do a lot of varied stuff. Some sort of bread and bar work. Others is different. Most of the work you could argue goes on in the task and finish groups where you can get into the city gritty. Hopefully you've enjoyed it. I want to stay on the committee for a bit longer. So that would be good. Anybody got any points? Councillor Creason. I'd just like to say thank you. You make this very complicated job palatable. If I ask you a stupid question, you don't pull faces at me. You tell me how it is. So thank you. You're a good chair. Thank you very much. Thank you. As long as I don't give you stupid answers. Councillor BOURN. Thank you. Also, I have enjoyed being part of this committee. It feels constructive and it challenges the brain to think a bit, which I find very good for me. I did have a comment to make about the content of the report about the highlighting point introduction point one, where it talks about the role, I'm echoing, I don't know why. Does it matter? Is it OK? All right. So point one, it talks about the role of this committee in relation to cabinet and this committee being a critical friend of cabinet and helping to the wording, to monitor performance and develop policies. And I would like to highlight that when we talked about the ground's maintenance contract, that role had been a bit reversed, it felt it had been reversed. And I think it would be more constructive wherever possible to actually stick to that process. Thank you. The correct process. Councillor BOURN. Yeah. I think that one was—I think it was a—I would call that as a rush job. Councillor BOURN. Time-scales. Councillor BOURN. Time-scales, yeah. A rush job is a building term. Time-scales is a different term. So, yeah, we understand that one. Everybody happy with the report, as is? I say, thank you again to Louise for working all out and making it some sense. And Julie did one meeting, didn't you? So, thanks to Julie as well. Someone want to move. Councillor CURT moved. Councillor BOURN seconded. All those in favour? That's carried unanimously. Thank you very much. Item 7, high-willed AONB management plan, 2024, pages 21, 2016. What we got here, purpose report, introduced the high-willed AONB management plan 2024 to 2029 recommendation is to be resolved at the high-willed area of our standing natural purity management plan 2019-2024, which is a typo because that should be, obviously, 2024-2029. We noticed that the other day, to be recommended to Cabinet and full Council for approval and formal adoption. Jeff, over to you. Thank you. Evening, everyone. Yeah, so, this is the latest version of the document every five years and you and is produced. That's the requirement for all AONBs. And I think this is a good evolution on from the last one. Although we adopt it as a document to be used across the grant council, but particularly for planning matters, it doesn't set policies as such, but it does set the principles under which we make decisions, and as 83% of our districts in the AONB, we do use it a lot. There's 11 districts and boroughs within the AONB area, and we all have an officer representative, and I'm the current representative on that, and there's also a joint authority committee where there's a representative member representative for each council, and our representative is always the planning committee chair, and that's currently Councillor Drason. It's a bit of a face of complete in the sense that this document has already been through a big process, been through consultation, and this is a document that in terms of scrutinising it, I think you're scrutinising whether there's anything fundamentally wrong with it, and you're scrutinising what role it has for us, and I would suggest a very important role for us in terms of it because of the amount of AONB land there is in the district. I think it's worth saying that the main author for this is Diane Russell, who was previously, as you know, our officer, and she was our representative on the AONB steering group, and I think she's done a brilliant job taking that forward, and it certainly reassures us that it's been written in the right way. I think it moves it on in terms of the understanding, and it has five themes in it, and it's got more in it this time about the biodiversity crisis, about climate change and those sorts of issues, and provides a really good basis for us to make planning decisions, but I'd recommend it to you. Happy to answer any questions. Thank you, Jeff. Any questions? Councillor Barys. You're right, smack bang in the middle of it, so... All four of my parishes are in my high wheels, and of course, I probably ought to declare I'm Chairman of Etching and Parish Council, which has, again, considerable bits of the high wheeled in it. I'm slightly puzzled, Kevin, and this is a genuine question about the nature of the management plan, because it says how principles, without saying very much about planning policies to meet those principles, and yet this is a plan which covers a large number of local authorities, as expected double figures, most of them were a very small stake. We have a very large stake, because H3 per cent of our landmass is in the LB, so we have a peculiar status. It seems to me as easily the largest local authority, but I wonder if we double take our responsibilities very seriously, but I just wonder if it wouldn't be preferred not necessarily immediately, but I think going forward to see if some of these things would become a little more hard and fast in relation to the other authorities which sit on the management board. There are one or two detail points which I perhaps ought to make. One is, I think it comes close to being a misstatement on page 49, it talks about nucleation except a battle, not having really taken place before the 14th century, but in a sense, nucleation has never taken place in our villages. Most of them are in fact rich settlements with not the classic historic centre with the manor house, the church, sitting in the middle. One or two do have something that approximates to a market square, Tysurst is an obvious example, but washed as not, really when you look at Robert's Bridge, there is no market square, and the classic nuclear village is not characteristic to all of the high wheeled, so to unkind that there has been, at any stage in its history, a process of nucleation seems to me to rather misstate the historic position. I do welcome the fact that there is much more emphasis now on the historic nature of the high wheeled. I think the field system in particular deserves being taken care of, and there are some good things in this statement, but that one did seem to me to need minor correction. The world nucleation never crosses my mind when I think of the high wheeled. If there are any other detail points I'll make a bit of it. I'd really like to announce my question about the relationship of this document with our local plan, but more important to the local plans and authorities that have a less important stake in this, are principles sufficient, or should there be more policy guidance and being offered? You reckon you can answer that, won't you? Well, I mean it's something that you discussed at the Joint Office Agreement. There's always a balance to be struck, but certainly we as officers push back if the management plan tries too hard to set policies that will be going across the whole area, because we are all different. It really is to set the principal components and we set the policies. And neighbourhood plans as well, neighbourhood plans may set policies that are relevant to their particular areas within the Airbnb. So I think they've got that about right personally. I think it works for other authorities as well as our own, and of course the MPPF requires us to give great weight in all playing decisions. So that protection is there and this is about that background to help us make those decisions. I think it does that. Did I answer your question? It doesn't really, because I was very struck when I looked at the map, just how many authorities were involved. Some of them have a significant stake. But there are a number of authorities, which really, their perceptions can't really be the same as ours, because they're largely having time where Joel, for example, has a relatively small stake. And of course he's dominated by the town of Tumbrid Wells. So its perception is badly slightly different, and it may be less protective. So I'm a little worried. The other area I've slightly missed, I must say going through it, was there is a very interesting industrial history to this area, going back to the Iron Age, a pre-Roman. I would have welcomed a bit more about that. And again, there's a fascinating, it's not just the field and the rich development, but there are other fascinating historic features. In my own parish, which was never been excavated, there is a possible elfridium burr from the 8th or the 9th century. Not even mentioned, although it's there in the gazoteos in the 19th century, when they mistakenly thought it was Roman. It clearly is not Roman, but it clearly is important. Einstein Forest does get good mention, which is another of our very important specific landscapes in the high-wheeled. But we're getting in the right direction, I congratulate Jeff on his input, but I think we do need to push a bit higher on some of the protective policies for what is largely a long spoiled late medieval landscape. You know, I'm sort of thinking, well, this isn't necessary. Pick me up if I'm wrong, Jeff. This isn't necessarily just our document, is it? This is a document that is covering the whole of the area. So all the other councils and organisations mentioned are assuming, doing a similar thing, that we're doing this evening, in adopting the overall management plan, and that then builds into their development framework, and they refer to this when doing stuff, basically. Would that be right, Jeff? Yeah, I guess, ultimately, the AOV is not a planning authority. If it's a national park, it would be different. But we are the planning authority. So it does a good job of setting it really, really well. The components, and that's always a tricky issue. We give great weight with protection. What does that mean? Well, this document unlocks that, and that's what we use to help to justify those decisions. So you're on, you sit with colleagues on this, I assume. So, whilst they get in similar questions from their councils, or is it pretty well as it is happy? That begins with similar processes. But what I would say is, yeah, we have made comments on this drawing. The process has obviously been to the management board and the drawing authority committee a number of times, so there's been lots of input in that sense. There's been a bit of chewing on throwing on various issues, and that's what I said at the beginning of the meeting. This is a bit of a fate of complete, and that this is a document that's been pulled together from across all the authorities, who they can attempt with. And, yeah, unless it's fundamental issues, I think this is something we should be taking forward in adopting as, as they will be too. Okay, Councillor CURVY, Councillor CURVY, he's got a hand up, so I'll take her once I've done the people in the chamber. Councillor CURVY, thanks, Chair. Yeah, just a real echo, isn't it? It's a really fascinating report, and thanks to Councillor Bands for the additional detail, and it just really serves to focus my mind, at least, on what a precious landscape, what a beautiful part of the world we live in, and we have a role in helping to protect, value, and cherish, not just the landscape, but also the communities who live in the room at home. And it's inevitable that an overarching document like this with a lot of people inputting into it from a lot of various perspectives is it's not going to have a huge amount of detail in how to enact some of the priorities, but it does give some context, and there are some really interesting aspects of the detail that it does give about the various priorities. For me, the ones that stand out are in terms of access, how to ensure active travel around the world. So I'm thinking about walking and cycling. We've all, well, anyone has been a bike along narrow country lanes and has braved loads of cars trying to stream past. You take your life in your hands and anything which improves and makes safer cycling as a means of accessing the countryside would be really welcome. As in walking, I noticed that I was glad to see protecting rights of way is referred to in the report as well. And one of the other aspects is transport for local people, accessible transport for people in villages and rural areas is so vital. It's something which is declined over the years, and I know we have a very limited role in ensuring transport locally, but wherever we are able to influence that remote and supported, I think we should. And then finally, I think in terms of a strategy that we can align this to, we've got a great climate strategy and rather we've got a very ambitious, very detailed strategy with a clear action plan. And I wonder if we can just align this report, aspect of this report, that fit into our existing climate strategy, which we should be really proud of, I'm certainly proud of it, and help to make that real and ground that in some of our existing operational plans in terms of the climate strategy. Councillor BURTEN, did you indicate? Yes, please. Thank you, Chair. Well, I picked up similar points that Councillor CURX had about aligning with what we're doing, and you see lots of things in common, which is really positive from that climate strategy and what we're doing. And is that possible to expand that further? I think that would be really, really useful to do. And the other thing is, totally different, is about the public people being aware that they live in an AOMB, in the high wheeled AOMB. And I certainly, the penny didn't drop for me till not that long ago. And so I think, of course, the name has changed. So this is, are we going to have an opportunity? Is the board, whoever, at the top going to say, let's get this call, the new name, which must be high wheeled national landscape. The name has changed. So I would think it would be very disappointing for this to be published with the AOMB in it, plus it's an abbreviation. That's my thought. Take those members in the room first. Sorry, with that, Eleanor. You got your hand up? I think I should probably have declared an interest. I sit on the management board of the High Road AOMB unit on behalf of the Sussins County Council. A couple of things. It is a national landscape, but it is still the AOMB. So it's actually probably still the AOMB. So that is correct, but it is a national landscape. So the two words, the two words work together. I think that, I mean, Jeff responded to Council Barnes. This is not a planning document. Each local planning authority has a planning document. This basically is setting out how to manage the persist local authorities. And I think there are 14 district and county councils which cover the High Road AOMB. And this is a large piece of work that was done. Basically, each planning authority has to have the management plan. So this is done on behalf of all the district or local planning authorities, of which I think as I said, I think there are 14 across the High Road AOMB. So this is a piece of work that has been done. It went out to public consultation. It went through several iterations. Jeff was obviously involved from an office point of view. I was involved from an elected council point of view. So as Jeff said, this really is a sort of way to complete. It's coming to you. But I think we need to, we just need to remember there isn't a planning document. A local planning authority has their own planning document, but this is something to add into the mix. Thank you. No. Yeah. Thank you. That's useful. So can I ask you a question? Would, are you, I'm not as sort of our representative as a county council representative, are you, you're happy with with with this, obviously, and you'll be happy with that. Yeah. Well, the district council and me on behalf of Easter six approved this about three weeks ago at the High Road AOMB management, management board meeting. Excellent. Thank you very much. Oh, you must have caused this earlier. Councillor COOK first. Thank you very much. I mean, this is clearly a really important document. In fact, it's more important than I personally have previously realised, I'm embarrassed to admit, but I wonder how we could turn this into a Janet and John version without losing the importance of the statements it contains so that all our residents can realise the part they can play to maintain ecological and historical elements of this vital document without belittling it so that it can be, I mean, it's a huge document, you know, and I just think if perhaps if our residents could have a sort of a short inversion condensed, but still with all the importance, I mean, I was looking at the top five issues for everything and, you know, the solutions that could be contained. And I think, you know, residents as well can all play their part, particularly with things like dark skies and not looking over their front lawns so they can pop their cars. Thank you. If you take all the pictures out, it would be a shorter document, it'd be really boring, wouldn't you? Councillors, I like the notion it's a fair concrete and yet it comes to us for scrutiny. I really should come to us earlier so we can have a real input or I think it's right for us to say when you get around to thinking again, I know this was 2020 but I hope it may be revised in some respects over time. It's right to point out what we think they've got wrong, that doesn't mean we're critical the whole thing. I think enormous amount of work has gone in and it's an extremely valuable background document and I would actually hope we would issue a press statement about it, which actually makes people want to look at the document itself. There are one or two things we could actually, I think, say to our own cabinet and indeed to our own planning department, there must be a question whether it wouldn't be quite useful. We have an area focus in the local plan, should we also have as perispectral somewhere in the plan which says these policies are particularly important for the 83% of our territory that is a homebie. And there are one or two other things that we might want to raise nationally, agree with Council McGurk that actually it's absurd on our country lanes to have the national speed limit when they use by walkers, cyclists, runners and get people who are actually committed to drive along at 60 miles an hour, thank godmas and dirt, but actually one of the things I will be recommending to Robert and also I've already said this at Ralph is that on unclassified roads the national speed limit should be 40 miles an hour and no more and I think that's something I would like us to be saying to the cabinet to take up through our national organisations because it really is absurd in this day and age that we probably use the matter class so much over other users of the road. The other thing I just sorry it does occur to me we ought to have a particular look at how we can get parishes to do more for wildlife urges. There is a policy and county has been pressing us as well but really the parishes are the right organisations to actually do much more to use our verges which are currently badly tuned up by traffic and we really ought to try and make them very much more friendly to the environment. Ben you've got a claim brief for you. Any thoughts on your perspective? Thank you gentlemen I mean I think I'd say I think the fact that we're talking about you know sort of very minute details about where we think that things are right and wrong means that generally speaking the document is pretty solid and I think you know I think we've been well represented both by by Councillor Kerri Greening but also Councillor Jason and Councillor Meir before that throughout the development of this and Jeff's obviously been really robust and actually I have to say a lot of it is incorporated into the emerging local plan as well as people will find out when that goes out to consultation. So I think I'll say I think this is a really really good document. I think we're grateful to the Highwood AOMB unit for producing it and I'm sure they will enjoy Councillor BANDS' feedback when that comes forward in due course. Thank you. Councillor CRESER. Now we've had the discussion. This is obviously a document that's to cover very many different locations so there will be a certain amount of compromise but as Ben said overall it is a good document so I move that we accept it and pups it on or whatever we've got to do with it please. All right that's moved by Councillor CRESER, seconded by Councillor Maynard. Jeff anything you want to say to finish off? Are you happy? No that's good. Councillor Colleen you're the planning portfolio person. Do you want to say anything on it? No, happy? Good, good. All those in favour? Goodness carried you down. I speak thank you very much. Thank you very much Jeff. There we go. Item 8 work program. There it is. Right work program. So we've done this one obviously. Next one where we've got some changes to ease. We've got, yeah can you, yeah we've got yes I think we were talking about perhaps moving the health and well-being board report update and the review of progress against the recommendations of the health and well-being task and finish group to the July meeting. Yes both to July because that ties in quite nicely with the active rather partnership strategy report and also to talk further about the impact of Airbnb and second homes in Canberra and Rye when we meet for the informal work program meeting in May to look at where that might be best placed and there was just one other change. The revenue budget and capital program monitoring quarter one which is currently showing as July needs to move to September to tie in with the financial reporting timings. I think that was all. I'm sure you all got that. So the next meeting on the third of June is that must be June. We have the performance report fourth quarter state of the district report of the digital customer services task and finish group and then the annual work program and what we do with the Airbnb we will discuss that sort of informally on the 15th of May on the Wednesday in the council chamber where we can be hybrid when we have a sort of informal meeting with a potentially new committee or any changes before we get stuck into this. Makes sense? Yep. Can I stand? I was looking down as some and clearly items for consideration include the housing task force but no mention of the task force on enforcement that should surely be added to our work program. We set it up. Yeah. Is it ready to roll? Yes. I think it's been set up. I think some dates are being looked at at the moment but I'm not sure whether they have agreed when they'd be reporting back. I'd need to look at that. Right. Yep. Yep. We've started it tentatively. We've got some names and we're looking at some dates so here we can cover that off. Anything else? No. Everybody happy with that? Good. Okay. I'll declare the meeting closed any hour later than the council meeting. Half an hour later, six minutes past seven according to the tunnel clock.