Transcript

All right, good afternoon everyone and welcome to today's planning committee meeting on St George's Day. As you can see from the agenda, we have three applications along with the report on planning appeals. The first two, we will take what officers have some advice for us on the third application, which I'm just going to ask Adrian to give us an update on that. Yes, thank you, Chair. In respect of the third application on the agenda, this afternoon, the application of Graspal, that's NED 23, oblique 00189. We've received some late comments from the lead local flood authority, Chair, and further discussions we've subsequently had with them are issues that can't be resolved this afternoon. So in terms of providing a detailed and complete report for members, we as officers are seeking deferral of that item this afternoon when we've addressed the issues that are outstanding in respect of the lead local flood authority and with the applicant, we'll report matter back in full to members, Chair. Thank you for that, Adrian. I am happy that we defer the application and would now want to press ahead with all the business in order to set out on the agenda. If that is OK with every member. The first item is apologies for absence. Have we received any in advance? Yes, Chair, we've received apologies from Councillor Eliot, Councillor Foster, Councillor Hancock and Councillor Rouse. Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Allen. Have we got any other from the floor? No. Right, OK. The second item is declaration of interest. Members are requested to declare the existence and nature of any disposable pecuniary interest and/or other interest, not already, on their register of interest. If any item on the agenda and withdrawal from the meeting at the appropriate time, do any members have any interest to declare? On the sieve, Chair. Item 3, we now move on to the minutes of the last meeting on June 9, 19 March. Are we happy that they are a correct record and can we agree them by confirmation? We need to move. Second. All those in favour? Thank you. Thank you, members. That brings us to the main business for the meeting. Before we start, I would like the clerk to explain for the benefit of members, speakers and those watching on YouTube how we will deal with them. Thank you, Chair. This is the procedure for considering the business this afternoon. The chair will introduce an application, then ask the planning officers to deliver a brief presentation to members and to highlight any late representations that have been received. The late representations report has been published on the Council's website and hard copies have been circulated to you. After this, the chair will ask any speakers to address the meeting. There are two speakers today that we are speaking on the first application. Each of the speakers will have three minutes to put forward their views. There will be a reminder given by the clerk when 30 seconds remain. At the end of the three minutes, members of the committee will have an opportunity to ask the speaker questions, if necessary, to clarify any points that they have made. After the speaker has addressed the committee and answered any questions, then they will be allowed to remain in the meeting, but they will not be allowed to participate further from this point. The chair will then open the meeting for questions to officers, a debate by the committee, and a determination on the application by a vote. The votes will be taken using the facility on your microphones. Finally members, this meeting is being live streamed and a recording will be placed on the Council's website. Please note that others may choose to copy this recording. Thank you, Ellen. Let's move to the first application. NED, stroke 23, stroke 0, 1, 0, 8, 1, stroke FL, Pillsley. In love with our normal practices, I am going to ask the planning officers to give a brief presentation showing any photos and plans of the site. Allow the officers to complete the presentation. Consequently, members, unless you have a point of order that you feel cannot wait, could you please reserve these or any questions about the process until the end? Thank you, Chair. Just before going through the presentation, just to refer members to the late representations report that was issued yesterday afternoon, in respect of comments from the Highway Authority and the Dobshaward Live Trust. Secondly, Chair, just in terms of the application title, the use of the word gypsy has been used in the title. Just to clarify for members, that's been used as specifically the wording that the applicants agent has asked us to use. We did see clarification from him on that point. If there's any issue around that that members wanted clarification off, hopefully that gives certainty over the use of the term in this instance. Just in terms of the application, Chair, it's seeking permission for the use of the site. I'll show you in a second for the provision of four gypsy households comprising five caravans. That's four static caravans, stroke mobile homes, and a single tour in caravan. There are associated works that are also proposed, including the construction of a driveway, the formation of an access to puddlywood lane, the provision of some hard stud area and amenity building, and a package treatment work in terms of disposal of foul sewage. The application site, Chair outlined there in black and coloured in that beige colour, it's the centre of the screen. It's a site that falls off puddlywood lane, which is the road just to the south of the site, which then, if you follow it eastwards, joins with the Morton to Pillsley Road at a T-junction. The site lies outside the settlement limits for Pillsley, and so for planning purposes lies within the countryside. A close-up scaled drawing of that, Chair, same site to the west. You can see the adjoining residential property which is referred to in the officer report, and the local wildlife site area again referred to in the report, Chair, with a diagram depicting it. The application site, shown in red there with other land owned or controlled by the applicant in blue, and you can make out just in the parcel of land to the right of the red-lined area, the public footpath which crosses the adjoining land. Puddlywood lane is also a public bridle way, again referenced in the committee report. The site plan that's been submitted is a slightly amended plan that shows the bin storage area and the package treatment plan that is also proposed. The shows Puddlywood lane, the proposed access, the track, the hard-stood area, the location of the four mobile vans and the single touring van, the amenity building and the associated landscaping and fencing. I'll show you a few photographs in a second, Chair, but as outlined at the virtual site visit yesterday, what's actually taken place on site isn't reflective of what is proposed in the application. Again, as set out in the committee report, the applicant's agent has specifically said permission is sought for what is proposed and not what is taken place. In that respect, the site plan differs to what you'll see in the photographs in a second, because the site has been occupied by the applicant and his family already. The amenity building, Chair, the only building that's proposed on the site, shown there, the applicants have confirmed that instead of a render, it would be appropriate to timber face it rather than the render finish. And then that's the post-and-rail fence chair that would surround the site with the two-mid-high close-body fencing just on the southern aspect joining the amenity building. And just some photographs as named them were further to the site visit of yesterday, Chair. The application site and photographs taken from the Morton to Pillsley Road, you can make out the site where the small number of caravans are to the top left of the horizon just back by the woodland. And this is a magnified shot of that. This is a photograph book with magnification. Again, showing where the site is, although again with the note that what is taken place on site isn't what actually is proposed. A couple of shots from the site entrance. This is looking in the critical west direction with Padlewood Lane snaking around the telegraph pole to the left along the hedge line with the trees and then in the non-critical east direction back towards the Morton Road along Padlewood Lane. And just an indication of the hard-stood area and the caravans that are on the application site, though, again, just to know that what has taken place isn't what is ultimately proposed. There is no landscaping, for example, or the caravans positioned in the location that is shown on the submitted plan or indeed the amenity building. And finally, Chair, this is just a view for reference towards the west of the site facing towards the adjoining residential prop, again, referenced in the committee report, the hedge and the trees behind, which comprise the local wildlife site. Thank you, Chair. Right colleagues, we have two speakers on the application, the first of which is Councillor Gillette, the ward member. He will have three minutes to get over his points and will be informed when he has been 30 seconds remain. You can ask him to clarify any matters that are being raised, but remember your questions should only relate to the points which have already been made after the speaker. All right, Councillor Gillette. Thank you, Chair. And thank you to the officers as well for the report and the presentation that was given. I'm here to support my parish Councillor and I'm objecting to the application and I'd like you to focus on two matters in particular, both of which are detailed in the report and I think the officers make clear that that's their judgment but that the committee can form a different judgment if it wishes. The first is whether there's actually a need for the additional pitches that are proposed here today and the report may be clear that there isn't. There is a sufficient supply. The officers do refer to a potential report that is about to come out that may increase the future demand but again there will still be a sufficiency of supply. I think what the officers are saying to commit is that to treat this as a windfall application it's already on site and therefore if you agree to this one then that means meeting the demand in the future will be easy for the committee. The only thing I would say about that is that that gives away your power to make decisions because you're handing over to an applicant the power to develop the site in the way this one has then come and submit a retrospective application and be given it because the council needs to meet need in the future. So I think there is a ground there for turning it down. Secondly you've had some pictures. I don't think they do justice to the actual intrusion that this development would cause to that site. Certainly anybody who's familiar with the Morton Pillsley world knows you can see it as you travel into Pillsley from some distance away. The planning guidance makes it clear that any development outside of the settlement area and in the countryside should be strictly limited and again it's for the committee members to decide whether this is a warranted intrusion in the countryside that can't be mitigated by the proposed landscaping and as has been explained to you the landscaping will be on three sides with the fourth side already covered by the trees and I think that in itself demonstrates the intrusion to the countryside. Now I am conscious that you may not be with me on that and therefore I just want to mention the possibility of some additional conditions. There are 22, 23 I think mentioned in the report and therefore if you do find it against what I'm proposing and decide to grant it I'd like to consider for all the conditions as well which I have notified the officers and they're able to give you some advice on individual course. The first is that there is a restriction on the number of vehicles that can be on the site. The applicant says it's for residential purposes and therefore the numbers should be commensurate with that and I think the report mentions eight or nine vehicles and that may seem a reasonable figure to you. Thirty seconds remain. Secondly that you require screening of the site. Thirdly that you prevent the storage or keeping of business trade or waste or other such vehicles on the site and thirdly that you require the applicant to return the site to the current state. If he is family or extended family decide they no longer wish to live there and move elsewhere. Thank you Councillor Gillard. Any members of any questions for the speaker? Councillor Gilett you mentioned need. Do you know where the nearest site would be or how many sites we've got? I think the report tells us of two. One in North Wingfield at Gart Lane and I think the other one is at Kailen. If you'd like to take your seat on, thank you Councillor Gillard. Right the next speaker we have is Kane Sykes, the applicant. If you'd like to take the seat and then when you get there there's a button to press to and it lies up and you've got three minutes to speak. Have you read it? It's the one on the right. On the need I've got in this paper here I've got years of eviction notices where I've moved all over the country. I can prove this because I've got it here. I've also got a letter off the chap that runs the Chesterfield Council site saying that there's no room on the site and there's not going to be no room for a long time. I've also got emails off of all the surrounding counties plus further field different councils saying that they've got no room on any of their sites and there's nothing available on any of their sites. So saying that there's no need if the local parish council has done the work like I've done I can prove this, what I've got here. I can prove that there's a need. If the council forced me off of my land they are going to be forcing me back onto the roadside. There's a new law now what the government's fetched out which is making it a legal far way of life. So if we put on people's land we can get fined, we can get a caravan's taken office and literally I can put my life on anybody and hearing in any council in the country and they will tell you that there's no room on any of their sites. They haven't got no sites or the sites is being redeveloped and they've got a plan and that's everywhere in the country and I can prove this because I've got it here, I've got letters here, I've got emails here and I've got eviction notices for all in the Derbyshire area, all for the country where I've moved all for the country. I've got a very ill daughter which is having chemo therapy at the moment. I need to be settled with a settled address and if the council turned me down today, I hope they don't but I ain't going to be moving off the site and I will take it as far as I can take it because I know I have got a need and the locals should have us council. Don't know what it's talking about. Right, yeah, on the planting wise I have planted thousands of natural edge row already all the way around the site and I have put evergreens on the inside as well for screening when the natural edge row died down. I've left about an acre of the land, one side was just going to just where the public foot path is. I've left that, I've planted in between where the island is and the public foot path so I'm going to leave that for the wildlife. I've put boxes there for the birds, I've put boxes for the edge jogs, I've put a lot of stuff in there for the wildlife so I'm going to leave that grow wild for the wildlife and I've also left land at the other side where I've put the fencing up. I haven't, the only feather board fencing I've put up is in the gateway but the rest of the fencing is just all stockproof fencing so in the end you won't even see that because it'll be all natural edge row like all form black form maple and everything you know. But anything that's got to be planted in there isn't a problem at the moment, you look at the site, it doesn't look too good but obviously it was a rushed job but this is the way we've got to do things because if I come into the council and says look I'm a gypsy I want to pull in this land, the land don't have an injunction put on it and I'd still be on the roadside and that's reality. Thank you very much do any members have any questions from Mr Kane? Council Cooper. Hi Mr Kane, currently there's one caravan occupied on site, is that correct? No. Sorry about that. No there's me and my children on the site at the moment and there's about five caravan on there at the moment but as the site is at the moment obviously it doesn't look the nicest but it will look nice because I'll do what's on that plan and I don't mind doing more planning and working then I've tried to make it look as nice as again but obviously it was a week before Christmas when I pulled on there. I have got a very ill daughter and we'll be upside down at the moment but if the council gives me my permission I can just crack on and make it look nice and I won't mess about. Obviously you put that in the conditions and I don't mind because I will do it. Any members have got any more questions? Council Cooper? Currently then how is the foul sewage being removed from the site? I have got a septic tank on the site at the moment and it's a cesspit so it's like a sealed unit so when it gets filled it'll just be sucked out and taken away. Okay okay thank you. Thank you. Councilor Peace? Are these moveable caravans that you want to put on there or is it a static caravan? At the moment I've got moveable caravans on there they are touring caravans but when I get it all sorted out there will be static caravans because there's more room in winter and months and that and it's just a bit more comfortable than that you know. Yeah thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Councilor Liggett? Thank you. You mentioned septic tank when if this goes ahead will that be emptied by a tanker or tractor and trailer? Well the septic tank I'll just get the proper people what come in and empty the tanks and I basically just get it emptied out but the tank what I'm proposing to put in there will be it's it's like a clay jester so it's like it's like a recycled and thing can't go into too much but it's like one of the best tanks what you can get in it you know but anything what comes out basically there's no soak away it's basically everything comes out and gets taken away and I can't say who does it but I'll just find out who does it these proper people will come out and empty the tanks and that'll be them you know. Thank you. Any more questions? No. If you'd like to retake your seat. Thank you very much. Great. Right colleagues you were now the opportunity to put questions to the officers about the application. As always I would like to keep this part of the proceeding focused on getting clarity about any points you are not sure of. Once we have done this we can then our discussion about the application based on what we have heard and read. That's question slots. Any more questions officers come to look at. Yeah I wonder if officers or maybe the legal team can confirm that all the sites in the country are full. Chair I'm not able to answer that question I don't know all the sites in the country. All I can say is and Mr. Sykes has mentioned about his his other works. We do have a letter on file from the site at I think it's core breaks but saying that's full so I can say we've had representation of that but I have to be honest Chair I've not been out to core breaks and check that personally but that's what we're advising representations and Mr. Sykes in solutions I've had has said to me what he's just said to members in terms of other sites but I can't confirm to Council or anyone else Chair that every site in the country is full I'm afraid. Can I also ask your opinion about Derbyshire Wildlife Trust because I was genuinely shocked to see such a detailed report because I mean numerous occasions we get very little from Derbyshire Wildlife and they're obviously very very perturbed about this but them to give a report as large as that I was really surprised. Again Chair I've been in discussion with Derbyshire Wildlife Trust about their comments and the fact that the site has been occupied ahead of the application being made etc and you'll have seen from the late representations that further to that Derbyshire Wildlife Trust have recommended the condition to require those measures that are compatible with the adjoining equestrian site just down the road so they are of the view that with that condition ecological benefits will arise albeit there will be a loss of some habitat from the hard stood area that's already been occupied. With Dr. Wildlife Trust Chair have confirmed that subject to that condition I feel that's the best outcome in view of the circumstances. Thank you. Any more questions? Councillor Cooper. Thank you Chair. Obviously we heard from Councillor Gillard, Adrian, about the need if you can just um for members benefits I know it's in the report if you can just sort of clearly spell out if we do have a need because obviously there's some contradictory stuff in in this report from Mr. Sykes on one hand and and the Council on the other and from where I read it we don't currently have a need until 2030 is that correct for further sites? Yes Chair that that's correct as set out in the report there is a as with housing there is a five year need and five year supply that is required of Council to demonstrate in this case for gypsy travellers sites and as you say in view of the two allocations in the local plan and the permissions granted thus far we don't fall short of that five year need until 2030 and further to that bearing that in mind officers are taking the view that because of the need to plan there further forwards beyond 2030 and the reactive system that we have in terms of reacting to applications rather than allocating the sites that we're placing weight well significant weight on that as officers are concerned because that then gives us a buffer going forwards beyond 2030 but you're right that to 2030 the Council is meeting its five year need as with housing etc whether that is again as with housing that isn't a not the limit it's a minimum level that you need to or we need to secure hopefully that explains that okay thank you yeah thank you any more questions no uh right that's what i'll line now now want to open the forfeit debate is that nobody wants to uh start us off no well i'll start us off then um i've had a good look at this report um i think it's actually quite a piece of work that's been put together um and um very milder to go with the officers recommendations on this because i think we're looking at it it's going to be a it's something that's not going to go away this the issue with uh travelers and having space to uh settle if they if they need to do that um there's clearly a lack of provision from uh what's in the report and uh what mr sallics has said that um uh and i personally uh i'm quite in favor of uh uh with the conditions put forward and probably including some of the conditions that um uh Councillor Gillot's put in um i would be happy to uh let this go through as officer recommendation Councillor Cooper thanks Jim um okay that that that's the case if that if that's the ultimately the decision once again i think the the conditions are quite important on this on this application there's also a couple more i'd like to to move forward if that's possible there's um on the entrance to the site there's a lot of loose gravel um personally i don't think that's right that that's going to be scattered everywhere i think that needs resolving and i'm pretty sure that that can be done as a as a condition also i am concerned about the um the foul sewage waste and i think it's on there already but obviously that needs to be done and be controlled a little bit concerned with mr sallics's response he wasn't sure who it was who did it etc etc well to me that's a pretty fundamental thing that we need to ensure it's been done properly there are other residents that are they already live down there um so we need to make sure that that's done by the book shall we say um and it's done within the within the confines of legality so but then they'd be the two things i'd be concerned about council races thank you chair um i totally agree with councilor koopa that it needs stringent conditions and they need to be met uh the applicant um assures us that he will meet them so uh i think with a few conditions uh you've brought up councilor koopa and councilor gillot has i i would also move to accept i'm a little concerned about the native plant it so we've been to plant native hedge but what they've planted there already uh has got laurel in it which is native to south east and europe and turkey not this country um i'm very concerned about that davish wildlife report i'll be honest particularly the lighting towards the ward that's mentioned to paddley ward because i just don't quite know how enforcement officers are going to enforce that to later date so i'm a little bit concerned about that uh and i've just noticed on policy lc9 should have asked officers i realize uh i just wonder what the provision was in the local schools how how much room there is in the local in morton and pilsly schools um i think that's it thank you thank you council will get anybody of you but there's one more matter just on on those matters chair if members are minded to grant permission for the scheme this afternoon then a number of the issues around the conditions are already addressed chair but specifically whilst the matter of conditions is otherwise delegated myself it would be my intention to limit the number of vehicles as has been suggested that's specifically set out in the application form and in terms of four vehicles with five larger vehicles but that would be allied to condition 20 which restricts the size of those vehicles there is a landscaping condition on which would i think capture the issue that councilor ligitt has raised the condition regarding trade or businesses already on the condition 19 we do have in terms of councilor kupus comments chair a condition that would control the foul drainage and details of the package treatment plant could be required to be agreed by the council in terms of the the loose gravel again yes we could require control of that through condition chair requiring a solid bound material five meters back from the from the highway we could also in terms of castle ligitt's concern about lighting if that isn't controlled within the biodiversity enhancement plan that the dog shawai life trust refer to we could control that too just just the one element that has been alluded to chair in terms of the comments that councilor gillot made regarding the the personal use of the site if members are minded to approve the scheme in line with the argument set out by officers then it would be the use that would be permitted without reference back to a personal use chair so i would advise against imposing a personal permission in that you would be granted permission for the use of the site as a gypsy traveller site without that restrictions that would be my only other comment on that chair thank you very much all right and there's apologies you've got to come out to the council now yeah um it's just sorry this probably should have been asked before as well but just see clarification currently there's fencing on the front front edge of the side is that to be removed is that chair on the submitted plan the there is no fencing forward of the amenity block and i'm presuming that mr. Sykes is aware of that i've spoken to about that and have also made reference to the agent in discussions with him about it to make sure that we're on the same page i hope we are but no the only fencing is the post and rail fencing around quite a lot of the site that's certainly the northern and eastern site there is two meter high ship lap boarding across the southern boundary of the site which backs onto the hedge row and the amenity block but there is no fencing shown on the submitted plan forward of that so there would be no fencing less specifically granted permission elsewhere through another permission or whatever would be no fencing short of that and that is then controlled ultimately by the the condition in respect of condition six which specifically sets out that other than the fences and boundary treatments shown on the approved plan there shall be any other fences boundary treatments on the site and then permitted rights are taken away from all of the fences and boundary treatments so it sure touched your question i apologize that's correct there is no fencing shown on the approved plan forward of the amenity block okay uh right colors have no one's cut anything else to it and now open up the floor for motions count on the laser thank you chair um i'd like to say that uh i want to put that we accept uh officers recommendations on this matter thank you thank you have we've got a second of that motion thank you councillor here right we're having front of us uh to approve the application um in line with the conditions laid out and some additional uh so it should just be cleared those conditions would be delegated to the planning manager development conditions would be delegated to the planning officer so if we can take a vote on that none please thank you members um mr. Sykes you've got your point application has been approved sorry thank you very much on the down surface i was thinking the same thing so i'm going to get that front thank you it's i'm going to turn it so if you're looking at it and i'll go down the side can get on and make it look nice and i'll actually add a little balance with it and i'll be sure i'll get the report but i'm on this sewage i do understand that you've got to get proper confidence to come out and enter the sewage but i can't say the name of one because of this didn't know the name of one but i'm sure didn't want everybody else there's i think the loon does this job they'll come out and they do but i didn't want to give a name of a certain company and then i didn't use them to do it so it's going to be all take away i don't want no germs no smell there okay thank you I think if you'd like to share those with Adrian after the meeting yeah and then we've got that for future reference okay thank you uh right they've got those that moves us uh onto the second application ned stroke 23 stroke 01090/fl play cross um i'm going to ask the planning officer tell us about any late comments and to give a brief presentation showing any photos and plans of the site i will allow the officers to complete the presentation subsequent to members unless you have a point of order that you feel cannot wait could you please reserve these or any questions about the process until the end so i'm having a special over to Graham Cooper thank you chair Adrian's just going to drive the presentation hopefully so members are able to see that so i'll wait for that just to call so this is item two this is application reference 22/010904/ol so this application is a section 73 application which has been submitted to vary condition four the approved parameters plan drawing pursuant to planning approval 24/00532.ol the proposal will rearrange the uses on parcel 7 8a 9 and 11 at exto park at clay cross so members yesterday attended the planning committee site visit and were shown quite extensive photos from from exto park of what's being built at the moment and what is to be developed on site i won't go through those again today a single representation has been received from the applicant in relation to the trigger associated with the providing the link road through the application site that so that's in the late reps report with page 5 so next slide please Adrian so this slide illustrates the application application site shaded orange this is exto park and it's a strategic site to the north of clay cross you've got Darby road running north to south immediately to the west of the application site you've got the a 6175 which runs from clay cross to the northeast towards north wingfield the middle and main line also runs through the center of the application site and under the pinch point that you can see there under clay cross and there's an existing area of public open space which is centrally located in that drawing next slide please so this is a zoomed in view of the west and half of exto park you can see Darby road there on the left within the application site you see the partially complete link road the public house the housing and commercial development is a commercial development plot which is being built out just to the south of the link road at the moment next slide please so this is the eastern half of exto park you see the railway line cutting just to the northwest the narrow pinch point here is where the link road is currently incomplete but St. Modoring are intending to complete this link road in the future and provide a link from Darby road bypassing clay cross term center and also in that pinch point you can see a tenuation base and so that is quite a bit larger than was originally planned to the south of the link road on that the larger southern part there's a area which is approved for more housing and the currently approved commercial site next slide please this is just the location plan with the site edged in red and other land under the applicant's own ship edged in blue next slide please so this plan is the approved parameters plan for exto park and you've got the orange areas are residential development the red are the local center development areas the purple area you can see is the care home or hotel development now permission has been granted for a care home on the site and development is already commencing on site the blue areas are the commercial the five hectares of employment development and the green areas are the open space to be provided next slide please so the applicant now proposes to alter the approved parameters plan so the changes include moving the local center from the circle position and instead developing that for housing also the next part is to relocate the local center where the second circles just appeared the next part this central area here parcel 11 this will be amended from a park commercial part residential to a wider open space area and the final area this phase will be amended from a commercial development to residential so the main reasons for these changes are outlined in the officer report to members moving the local center is seen as a logical amendment to altering parcel 11 in the center of the scheme is seen as a better use of the land due to the extended attenuation base and taking up more space there's also quite constrained land levels on the southern part of the land an amendment to parcel nine are requested due to below ground conditions excessive abnormal costs and viability issues in delivering the site for employment and the next slide please and this final slide is just an updated drawing provided by the applicant illustrating how Exo Park would look if permission is granted today by members and that concludes my presentation chair thank you very uh right colleagues we don't have any speakers on this I'll just let uh cancel the cheat and take your seat uh just to cancel the cheat and we've just stopped the uh the uh second application presentation by officers so we're now moving toward towards uh because we've got no speakers on this this item so we're going to move to uh questions to officers Any members have any questions for officers? I'll start us off then um yeah um I'm looking at this with uh with two experts the one from the uh business development side of the council's group business scrutiny um and I find it a bit unfortunate that we are losing which is a dedicated site we're going to be losing some uh industrial usage some commercial usage on that land um I just wondered if you could give us the reasoning behind that um why you think that's acceptable Graham thank you thanks chair so hopefully the the report kind of outlines a quite broad picture of the reasons why we've reached that you know difficult decision you know that clearly the the policy seeks to provide employment land on agsto park but we're advised that ground conditions uh for example we've got a lot of reclamation and earthworks we've got uh below ground issues so a high wall a regular shaped land low discussed on parcel 11 it's quite an awkward shaped land it's got steep gradients and trees on the site so we've we've factored all those and and also the kind of pile foundation scheme that the developers having to use on the site so that feeds into a lot of the abnormal conditions and costs that the developer would experience so we've had the the figures and the ground conditions kind of looked over by independent consultants who've looked at those those figures and the details below ground and they've confirmed that that there are below ground issues you know whilst they can be overcome that's a costly exercise to overcome those those issues and there are also like abnormal conditions the figures include paying for protective barrier for water services retaining wall works a foul pumping station and dealing with a lot of the reclamation works and the moving of the land so there's a lot of lot of things to factor in and it's it's you know we've looked over those figures and we believe these are extenuating circumstances to grant permission against public local plan policy thank you um one other point is um uh affordable housing need i presume this will still remain at the same percentage wise on these if you do a grant permission on that for the number of properties yeah thanks chair so yeah i can confirm if if permission was granted for housing on that scheme and as expected 106 dwellings come forward i believe that would be an additional 12 affordable homes so the section 106 still requires 11 percent of all homes on the exto site development to be affordable so that would still be protected thank you any members any questions council cooper thank you chair when will the link road be completed can you just clarify sorry so thanks for council cooper so yeah in the late representation pack this there was we initially we were looking to require the delivery of the link road prior to the occupation of the 674th dwelling so 661st dwelling so that is just the applicant's ask that that is just adjusted slightly so what that takes into account is the housing on the four phases which are being developed now and also at parcel 5a which has been granted permission and i believe you know they'll due to start on site that soon so once those five parcels are delivered we should have the link road complete so it wouldn't be reliant on this housing scheme coming forward on that employment land so hopefully that provides a bit of clarity thank you thank you no more questions from members right uh oh sorry council please can i just ask in the um they're talking about accessing it to market street how is that going to work onto this um link road so the link road if you go to figure three in the report so it's just about at 2.9 so that kind of gives an indication of where the link road will run so it'll run from the roundabout on Derby Road near to the public house all the way through to the signalized junction on the 86175 yeah so at the moment there's just a small fraction of that road that hasn't been complete because there's just a few technicalities that St. Woderman are trying to overcome with the county council so yeah so that that's where it will come out onto the signalized junction so that will alleviate some of the traffic through the sound center yeah that's right no it's up there okay okay yeah okay thank you council will they go oh sorry uh right thank you for the dessert that is on the final part of the process our discussion on what about what we've heard and what we think and what we want to decide i would now like to open the floor for debate absolutely good i was just going to say i think it's a good idea personally i think moving the shops from the 861 to the to below home bargains area makes sense yeah and i know it's a shame like say losing the factory warehouse whatever they would be down there but visually it would be a lot a lot better that the houses facing houses rather than the people that are already that live in there having to look at factories with the associated factory noise i think i think to be honest it makes more sense thank you anybody else and i must agree with some points that you raised that council look at the year i do think moving the center into the center area is much better and really all we're talking about i think all of the pro pearls is fine apart from the land parcel nine which is a change of use but i think officers have explained well that it's made it very difficult with the land conditions and everything that and the reports that they've added they've took special advice on that so right i'm now going to open the floor to motions if anybody's got anything to book forward council lacy yes thank you chair i'd like to move that we go with officers' recommendations i think this document's been very very well full-time and uh yes come in here can i move and ask for a second of please well members we've got a motion before us to approve the officer recommendations if we can take that to the vote please thank you very much members let's have been approved uh right members the um item three has obviously been deferred as discussed earlier so we're now moving on to item eight which is planning appeals as everyone have a chance to have a quick look at the report and could the planning officers explain these tours please thank you chair it's not so so greater and way to your report this this month but there is the one appeal that's been dismissed as members will be aware at mill thought lane at homesfield and as i always do chair the report i recommend that members go through that have a look at the appeal inspectors discussion and decision on the application it was dismissed but in this instance the inspector did discourse both greenbelt and landscape impact issues and made some interesting points in respect of them particularly in terms of the landscape character of the area and how the development would impact on that so again worth a worth a reach but other than that i'm just to know we've had the one appeal submitted in the the past four weeks thank you to take any questions any members have any questions on that appeal uh no uh right members uh did we agree to note the report we just have a show of hands thank you um as i have no urgent business at this time we'll move to the item 10 the exclusion of the public i move that the public be excluded from the meeting during the discussion of the following item of business to afford to avoid the disclosure to them of exempt information as defined in paragraph three and five part one of schedule 12 a to the local government at 1972 as amended by the local government access to information variation called it 2008 if we're all happy with this then let's move on to item 11