Development Sub-Committee - Monday, 22 April 2024 7.00 pm
April 22, 2024 View on council website Watch video of meeting or read trancriptTranscript
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The beginning of this meeting is being live broadcast to YouTube to the public to see and hear the proceedings. Please can I ask that you turn your microphone on when speaking. May I ask everyone to turn off any mobile phones or switch them to silent mode. In the event of a fire alarm sounding, please follow the council officers out of the building and do not use the lift. You may see that from time to time, I'll be speaking to the officers on the dais who will be guiding me through any procedural points. The intention is for this meeting to finish by 10 o'clock. And can I ask that members dispose of any used cups in the bins provided outside the agenda, outside the chamber? Turning to the agenda, apologies for absence and substitutions. No apologies have been received. Are members of the committee aware of any apologies? No, thank you. Minutes. At this point, I say, do members agree the minutes from the meeting held on 25 March 2024 as a correct record? But I am going to propose one very small change to those minutes before we agree them. Which is on page 7, section 324, you will see on regarding the waterfront site. It says the subcommittee considered a report from the development management consultant on the heads of terms from the agreement for breach 3 car park and handover house. The subcommittee resolved to recommend to CPRC and council subject the report being amended as discussed to approve the recommendations are set out in the report. I am going to add to that something to the effect that the subcommittee delegated authority to make that recommendation CPRC to the chair and vice chair of the committee. And that's relevant because in reality, what happened is one of the questions that we had wasn't answered in time to get it to CPRC and re-reading the documents. Both Sean and myself had some additional questions which we addressed all last Monday. So, Council, how can you? Is it worth adding in that it never made it to the CPRC that it was going to? Yes, that's what I just said, it didn't make it to CPRC so we could be going to the June one. Yeah, I don't know if we put that in the meeting because that minutes because that obviously happened after the meeting to which the minutes refer. So, I'm sorry, just repeat then. So, is everybody happy if we just make that small amendment that the minutes otherwise are accurate? Thank you very much. Disclosures of interest. Does any member have a disclosure of interest to make in relation to any item on the agenda other than the standing declaration from those members who are also on the planning committee or our city councilor or our director of building states? No, thank you very much. Item number four is questions from members of the public and there are no questions from members of the public. Item five is urgent actions. There are none. I think we're going to add one. Thank you. Item six is the development subcommittee forward plan. Does the committee have any comments in respect of the forward plan? No, thank you. Do we agree? I apologize. Thank you. Fine. Do we not sorry, welcome. On the floor plan, do we not actually have a column that says our delegation of responsibility decision making responsibility. So, I don't think we do currently. Why do you think we're agreed to do that or. To the development subcommittee. Not so. The only problem I have is I can't for the life of me find it right at this point in time. But what I'm asking for is. If that is the case, yes, here we go. We've got on the forward plan, anticipated earliest or next date of decision and decision maker, which is on the public reports pack page 20. All the decisions are deemed to be being made by the development subcommittee. I just wanted to see clarification because later on in the report, we say that we're actually recommending that decisions be made by C. C P and R. So I just wanted to clarify what that decision making process was and whether I'm reading it the wrong way or not. And in the forward plan, which is on the public reports pack page 20. That is not the way I interpreted that and I may have interpreted it correctly is more about the committee that the item will come to in term and the date that it would come. So I think most of the decisions need to be unless the C.P.R.C. have granted authority dance development subcommittee. My understanding is that development subcommittee is there as an advisory committee to C.P.R.C. but isn't actually able to take decisions. Okay, in that case, Corley, I was just seeking either clarification and or correction because in the development delivery strategy, not the one that's version four, but the other one page 23. The recommendation is to recommend to C.P.R.C. for a decision. So if you read the documentation in its entirety, it's not clear who's making the decisions. And I just wanted to see whether we can actually review that and clarify exactly how that decision making process is going to work. In that case, we need to look through the documentation and just clarify that. That's right. And I'm happy to sit with and just go through it. Which documentation? Sorry, is the report not? We've got the decision making is down to the development sub in the reports pack page 20, but in the development delivery strategy, it says that we're asking C.P.R.C. to make decisions. And all I'm asking is, as someone looking at this documentation, the decision making process isn't clear. Can I keep cutting that? I think if we changed it, then it says anticipated earliest or next date of decision and decision maker. If we change that to and decision maker on recommendation. Fine. That would answer the answer. That would clarify it a little bit. Yes, sir. Thank you. You got that? Okay, we'll make that change. Thank you. Any questions? I'm happy to help. Thank you. So, if I can just clarify, the decision you're making today is to recommend to C.P.R.C. That's why it says development subcommittee because on this day, you've got to make that decision as to whether you recommend it or don't recommend it. The C.P.R.C. decision comes later and is on the C.P.R.C. forward plan. This forward plan is just for. Sorry, it's mine. I think that's understood. Correct, but it doesn't actually say that in the documentation. So it just needs to say that. Yeah, we can make that change. We'll just change it to and decision maker regarding recommendation. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Okay. Does C.P.R.C. have any other questions? Yes, Councillor Nichols. Thank you, Chair. The forward plan dates are 17th to the 6th, relating to the development subcommittee. If we make the changes to the committee structure, development subcommittee won't exist at that point, will these tasks be reallocated? I'm confident they will be, and I'm confident that our compliance people will ensure that all of the duties responsibilities task transfer to the new committee. But thank you for raising the point. Were there any other questions or comments indeed on the forward plan? No? I saw a late arrival for us to be discussing today. So I'm just wondering, will that come off of the forward plan? There was an urgent item. Did that urgent item come in for us to be discussing later? It's on the forward plan, so I'm guessing we're discussing it today, or how's that working? I believe it's slightly different. It's, yes, ashford victory places on the forward plan. I think this is perhaps a separate issue to what the forward plan is. Okay, just that it jumped in quite quickly, and I didn't get a chance to really. There's no report. It's a verbal item, so. Thank you. Anyone else? Anything else? Do we agree to note the forward plan? Thank you. Item seven is the development delivery strategy. This item is to recommend to corporate policy and resources committee to approve the introduction of a development strategy. And can be found on pages 23 to 36 of the main agenda. And Corley Holman will present the report. No, too, Corley. Thank you and good evening, committee. Since the decision was taken by the council to stop direct building on our own sites, as you're probably aware, we're looking to progress delivery via a number of partnership initiatives. Delivery on each of the sites could take many different forms and be different on a site-by-site basis. Adoption of a development delivery strategy will set out criteria to approve options. Without such established criteria, we can't ensure consistency in approach, which may result in delayed decision-making and continued financial pressures. The strategy that is before you this evening has been developed following a member workshop to allow sufficient flexibility so bespoke decisions can be made for each site, but within agreed parameters that set out principles and objectives, which are summarised in section 3.2 of the report this evening. These include being joined up with the local plan, achieving best value and decisions being taken by councillors. Thank you. Thank you, Corley. Does the committee have any questions? I know they're awesome. Councillor Bingham. Yes, thank you. And Councillor Gibson. I'm page 24. There is your, just one minute, I finally hear. And on page 24, left, Paul, you're here. You see some, some, some polishing of arrangement or unconditional dispose. So can you explain a, what kind of properties the management team intended to be unconditional dispose? Because you mentioned there. Thank you. So that's something just to provide flexibility. No decisions have been taken as to which sites will be unconditionally disposed of, which will be partnership arrangements. Those will be brought back to this committee on a site-by-site basis with a range of options and then a recommendation. So the policy or the strategy as I've just set out is setting out some parameters and objectives, to make sure that the decision-making can be made on a site-by-site basis when we bring additional reports on each site to the committee at the appropriate time. And that will range over a period of months as we move forward. Yes, thank you, but however, if your assets, you're, you're perturbed with the, with the price you paid. So I don't know what kind of assets or properties could be a capital to be an unconditional dispose property. If I can give an example, and this is just an example not to say that any decisions are being taken, but with Ashford Victory Place, which is something that we're discussing on the agenda later, we have a site there that has planning approval in place for 127 units. So again, we agreed at one of the meetings before Christmas that we would go out and undertake a full marketing campaign, and we were bringing the outcomes, potentially bringing the outcomes of that full marketing campaign pending on the conversation later back to the committee. And some of those offers may be for unconditional purchases, so it may be that the committee decide that they want to move forward with direct disposal of that site on an unconditional basis. And as I say, please don't read anything into that. That is just an example of a decision that could be made. I'm not suggesting that that is going to be the outcome. Thank you. Thank you, Councilor Bingham. Councillor Boral, next. Yeah, a couple of little queries. On page 25, item 2.3, it says not to undertake any development delivery in the short term work. My question is, what is the short term? I guess it's until interest rates go below the 2.2%, whether that's six months or six years. But even then, we would still have mountains of debt. Colleen? So I think the short term hasn't been defined when the decision was taken before Christmas. It was very much predicated on the basis that interest rates had risen. Building construction costs had risen, and there was a lot of developer risk associated. So, I think until the foreseeable future where guided by finance colleagues and bringing other decisions back to this committee, the approaches that we won't be doing any direct development. But whether that's six months or three years, I couldn't comment at the moment. And the other point, thank you for that, the point on page 26, 6.1, it says to achieve best value in terms of financial returns, which in turn relates to the financial resilience of the Council. I'm not sure that we really want to have financial resilience as the ultimate destination criteria of what is appropriate. I mean, it's part of it, but I wouldn't say that would be all. Yes, sorry, Colleen. Thank you. We have a statutory obligation to achieve best value. By doing that, we either independently market all the sites so we can determine what the best offer is coming in, or we get independent evaluations carried out. And I think that's part of the decision making for the committee as we move forward. So, as officers, we will include within the report, if it's an overall using ash for victory place again as an example, presenting a range of offers that has been achieved and the financial pros and cons with each of those sites. But it may be that the committee decide actually best value means something else, not just financial, and that a decision is taken that achieving affordable housing on the site is more important than getting the significant receipt. As officers, I think we will present that to members on the basis of understanding what the holding costs for each site are, what the capital costs of the site are in our books. And if we were to move forward with progressing a transaction where we were getting less than the number that we've got in our books, then there would be a write-off that would effectively come into the revenue budget as a result of that. So, again, it's very much for members to take those decisions, but because we have the statutory obligation for best value, then we are obligated to demonstrate what that means in financial terms and the loss that would be incurred and how it would be incurred if that was the decision taken. Thank you very much. Very helpful. Thank you. Thank you. Did you have a question, Councillor Gibson? And then Councillor Harkins, I'm not ignoring you. Thank you, sir. Oh, yes, I did. Actually, just to expand on Councillor Burrell's point and to seek clarification and maybe an amendment to the report, because on page 23 title summary of the report, the wording is whilst the Council will no longer be directly developing any of its sites, it appears to be contradicted by 2.3 on page 25, which says in the autumn 2023, the Council took a decision not to undertake any direct development delivery in the short term. So either we're never going to do it, or it's going to be in the short term, and I was just seeking some form of clarification. Am I reading that correctly? I think it's more just about a play on words. Obviously, item one is a summary of the report, which says at the current, so it's basically saying at the current time the Council is no longer directly developing. As I responded to the previous question whether that changes down the line very possibly, but how long that will be, I don't know, but the current decision is we're not doing any direct development. So maybe the both statements could say the same thing rather than appear to be contradicting each other? I would dip in there and say I don't think it's an apparent contradiction just because one says no longer and the other says in the short term. It's not actually a contradiction, but I'm sure we can finesse the wording to accommodate your request. Thank you, and again another little Pinikati one, apologies, corally, don't hate me. Page 24 key issues, 2.2, we say that the strategic purpose of the development regeneration portfolio is to ensure the borough remains an attractive place to live, work and undertake leisure activities through delivery of high quality affordable housing, social infrastructure and commercial property requirements of residents and local businesses. However, now correct me if I'm wrong here, it appears that the wording on 3 point, bear with me, on point 6, financial implications does actually say, once the introduction of the strategy has no direct financial implication in isolation, implementation of the strategy sets out the council's statutory obligations to achieve best value in terms of financial returns, which in turn relates to the financial resilience of the council. So all I'm asking is just to expand on Councillor Burrell's point, does point 6 financial implication trump the wording in the point under key issues that is talking about making the whole scenario, and the development and regeneration portfolio ensuring that all the things that we really love. Am I being, am I being Pinikati here? Yes. I'm just going to say you're not allowed to say yes. I think the financial implications, correct me if I'm wrong, but the first paragraph is lifted from another document which sets out the overall strategic purpose of these investments. Paragraph 6 is quite specifically picking up on the financial implications of this report, i.e. that we have to consider getting best value for money regardless of what we do, which is within the broader framework. It's a legal obligation, we have to pay attention to 20 questions here. It does not trump the earlier comments, the two do sit side by side. 6.1 is simply a matter of detail that fits within the overall strategy, that would be my interpretation. Thank you, sir. It's just that in the unfortunate position of having a little bit of history behind us where in the past we have actually been put under pressure to adopt certain developments purely for financial viability, and that was at the disadvantage of other elements, so I just want to make sure that that's not going to happen again. We will note that. Thank you, sir. And I've got one final point, and again, Corley, if you run me over, I'll understand, but if you take a look at, just this is just to help me in the agenda, if in the agenda documentation that was sent out, we've got two documents with exactly the same title, development, delivery strategy, but they're two completely different documents, so if we could just make sure that we title documents with the same name differently, then at least I won't get confused sometimes when I'm looking through the copious numbers of documentation we get given. Could you direct me to which of the two documents? Yes, sir. If you take a look at all the documents we receive in the agenda, we've got the agenda, then we've got a number of other documents. Point six, we've got the forward plan. Seven, we've got the development delivery strategy, and then if you look further down, additional documents, we've got another development delivery strategy, but it's different to the development delivery strategy above. So, I don't really know how the documents are pulled together, but it is to me, and I apologize if nobody else gets confused, but it confuses me. One's appendix four, and one isn't. I mean, not a version four, and one isn't. Okay, I think the answer, I can understand your confusion. The first item refers to the report about the development delivery strategy. The second document is the actual development delivery strategy, so I think to avoid any future confusion, if we entitle the report on the development delivery strategy. It's a small thing, but when you're trying to do it through that much stuff, it really does confuse. Thank you so much. No, I quite appreciate the point, and it must be even more confusing for members of the public to follow it, so fair enough. Sorry, Councillor HOWKINS. Mine's a quick one. Ashford Victory Place, can you remind me where it is, please? Is it the one at the back of the hospital? Okay, right. Looking at your chart, you've got down six out of the eleven properties for disposal. Are you sort of actively going to dispose of them, or are you actively looking for partnership agreements, or is it just a plan that you're thinking of doing, but nothing's actually actively being done? I'll hand that to you, currently. I think it's the latter, so we won't be taking anything to market or doing any marketing until we've bought reports through this committee and got this committee's approval. So, yes, with Ashford Victory Place, we got that approval before Christmas, and we have started marketing, and we'll be coming on to that item later, where we've got a bit of an interim update. But the others, we're not progressing, which is we're taking the actions that the committee agree. Okay, thank you. Do any other committee members have any questions on this item? Okay, Councillor Nichols. Sorry, could you just remind me of what the decision on Ashford Victory Place before Christmas actually was? Yeah, it was to go out and undertake a full and comprehensive marketing campaign. Okay, I can't recall it quite in those terms, but no matter. Could you explain how you expect residents to interpret appendix two? In the sense of those are just anticipated delivery mechanisms from what we see as potentially acceptable to the marketplace, as I say they, and it's put anticipated because we haven't bought any of the reports back to site formally, and the committee hasn't made any decisions as to which way it wants to go. So, it's effectively trying to incorporate flexibility, but give a little bit of a guide as to what we think would be acceptable to the market. I'm going to query why that's a good idea, because this is going to go into the public domain, or isn't the public domain, saying that we intend to sell Thameside House. So, is that the impression you wish to create with the public? I think where we were probably at the time, we felt that that was the potential way forward. We can amend this, as I say, we're bringing this document here tonight to get feedback, we can amend that as we, as the committee decide it wants to. So, if we don't think that that's a good idea, and we need to include something more general, this is a draft strategy before it's finally published. Yeah, we can update as you would like us to. I would like to approach here that we don't publish appendix two on the grounds that if I was asked to defend that particular thing, I couldn't say I had any reason to believe or understand why that decision or that opinion was being expressed. Yeah, absolutely fine. So, we're all nodding. Are we all nodding saying don't publish, are we saying change that option? I think from my understanding, if I may chair, is that things may change, and therefore we don't want to put something else, not definitive at this time. Okay, so, on this point, Councillor Fark, please go ahead. It seems to me, Chair, that we're either kicking a can down the road, which is what I think we're doing, but then we're saying that we could do this, this or this. And it worries me that there might be people planning to do this, this or this, and it's this, the final this that we're going, this is what the master plan is. You know, I think if you're just kicking a can down the road and some interest rates come down, that's fantastic, but sometimes we don't need to error a dirty laundry in front of the public, otherwise that they will interpret it in their own way. And some people will be thinking, well, actually, well, let's work out how to, you know, when there's a fire sale, let's get in there quick so that we're in good state. Whereas what we are sat on, you know, great assets that the market is changing. So I think the do nothing thing would be probably the safest way forward in all honesty, currently. I think because of the timescales, actually, the do nothing thing is quite dangerous. In the sense of we are holding these sites, they're costing us money, they can only sit on our capital, I don't want to come in in a minute, if I'm not quite articulating this correctly. But they're sitting on our capital balance sheets as liabilities at the moment, they can only sit in on there under some of the sit for regulations for a certain period of time because of the developments that we were proposing moving forward, and that we are still moving those forward in one way or the other. So if we did the do nothing option, we've got a wrath of costs which go into the millions of pounds that we would have to write back into revenue and I'm relatively confident that that's not financially sustainable and certainly wouldn't be supported by the Terry or Paul or Matt. I would agree what you say, and I would say that we've been through an unprecedented few years, quite a few years in all honesty, and it seems that now that the FTSU has just gone back through 8,000 points again, and interest rates are due to be coming down, I would say that the market is changing. And I would say that we have been in a better position more of a bullish market so that therefore, if we send out, if we hold our nerve, I think for just a little bit longer, we may all be in a better position. Corley? Can I respond and I think probably Paul wants to say something so whilst there is talk of interest rates coming down, things may or may not be stabilising, I think we've just had a meeting which would suggest things may not start picking up again for another 9-12 months. I think we don't know what's going to happen out there, there's still a lot of risk attached to the sites while construction costs are coming down, interest rates probably will come down, but that's not certain yet. The viability of a number of these sites is still significantly greater than a few years ago when we were doing this direct development ourselves, so actually the risk of construction costs and the viability of the sites probably isn't going to come back for a while. Can I hand over to Paul? That's OK, thanks. Paul, over to you. Thank you, Chair. Good evening, Councillors. I'll just reiterate what Corley has said. Doing nothing is not an option. The moment you do nothing, we have to release the capital out of the balance sheet into the revenue budget and then you'll be working on how you're going to balance the books and considering there is in excess of 15-16 million pounds in the balance sheet. That will be a serious challenge for you to deal with. The formality is that we have, or Council has agreed, that there will be a suspension of direct development because of interest rates, building construction, inflation, et cetera, and therefore we're looking at options to develop the sites with joint ventures. In between times, we could see a swing back the other way where interest rates come back down to a more realistic level that we've experienced over the last 20 years, let's say 2%, 2.5%, and building inflation comes down to an average of 2%. If the Council can reassess its assessment of direct delivery, but as it stands at the moment, you are looking at formally finding joint ventures to deliver your affordable housing projects, and if you decide to do nothing, then we have to come back to you with a paper to release the funds in the balance sheet back to revenue budgets with a plan of how we're going to rebalance the budget. Thank you. I'm just chipping my Toppensworth as well as if we were to do nothing and take that cost, it doesn't move us forward. Are there any other questions on this point, Councillor Nichols. Thank you. I certainly think would echo what those have said about moving forward as quickly as possible. Looking at the indicative project methodology, what I would like to see in particular is the local Council consultations on preparation of the site specific delivery strategy going ahead immediately. It's quickly as possible because that is what will condition whether we know what we're going to do to the sites. Corley. I think that's a very valid point. We're trying to do that. We've started work on a number of sites and we are going to be bringing reports forward. I think probably the only thing that I would caveat that with, we're a small team, we've got a lot of work, so we do have to kind of manage our resources and the work that we can move forward within our capability, but I don't disagree with your point. I'm just going to pick up on that. You've just hit the nail on the head. I think what is missing from this report is simply the priorities. I think we need to jointly decide which are the top priorities in here, and then crack on with those, and if that means to Councillor Park's point, putting something to one side in the very short term because we're focusing on the other thing, so we need to do that. We'll need to start making progress on these. Councillor SEXING. Obviously, we can't do everything at once, and I do think absolutely we need to prioritise and have some sort of timeline to focus the minds, but taking into consideration the constraints and resources you have, but actually to make things happen, so that would be fabulous. Thank you. And one final point on this, if I may, one of the prioritisation measures one of the factors should be, if we part this, how much we're going to have to write off. Councillor GIBSON. Just seeking clarification from Paul, could you identify which affordable housing projects you were meaning, please? All of the affordable housing projects, Councillor GIBSON. Sorry, colleagues, did you want to? Thank you. I think that was a really good suggestion and what I was just going to inquire about, rather than, I don't think there is a CPLC who may actually think about it, but if we did some work around the amendments to the policy and brought an updated report back in May that included some suggestions of prioritisation of housing. And then the prioritisation of sites with the pros and cons and the reasons supporting that, would that be accepted to the committee in advance of taking something through to the CPRC? Could you repeat that, please? That didn't compute with me? Sorry, colleagues, suggesting that between now and next CPRC, hopefully, officers could sit down and draw a priority list of these to work through, and I would suggest that, ideally, you include one or two Councillors in that process. Did that clarify for you, Councillor GIBSON? Yeah, I was just asking, Paul named two affordable housing projects in the affordable housing projects he meant, just for clarification. Paul, do you have a couple of examples you could get? I'm not sure I understand the question, but they're related to all our development projects, the comments that we have been making. So, that would be Ashford multi-storey, Ashford Victory Place, Thameside, etc. I think there's five, isn't there, five projects, six projects? Thank you, Paul. It's just that it sounded to me that they were solely affordable housing projects rather than a mixture, potentially market value and affordable housing. 100% affordable, I needed clarification, thank you. Any other questions? Councillor HACKENS? Just one quick one. When you do that report, can you not print green on top of green, because you lose some of the words? I'm sure we can accommodate that request. So, am I taking from that, then, offline, I and the Deputy will speak to Carolee and a group of people to assemble a small team to prioritise these items? Is that acceptable to committee? Okay, thank you. Are there any other questions on this before we... No. Okay. So, does the committee agree to recommend to corporate policy and resources committee to approve the introduction of the development delivery strategy, approve the form and content of the draft delivery development delivery strategy attached to the report, and refer the development delivery strategy to full Council for adoption. Councillor NICKLES? I thought we were going to remove Bendix 2. Thank you. I wonder whether, because of some of the changes we need in the prioritisation, could we defer the recommendations to the main meeting and the next report? Would that be acceptable? Absolutely, yes. Yeah. Okay, scrap what I've just said. Moving on. The next item is, hopefully, the asset management plan review, key performance indicators and risk register. This item is to approve the updated key performance indicators and risk register for the asset management plan 24 to 28, which can be found on pages 3 to 16 of the supplementary agenda. Carly Holman, what percent report? Thank you, Chair. So, the asset management plan and strategy have been previously approved by Development Subcommittee, CPRC and full Council, subject to officers undertaking a review and a further member workshop to focus on the KPIs and the risk register. That workshop took place in March this year. So, the KPIs and the risk register have been revised accordingly, so we now are presenting them to you as being documents that are ready for inclusion within the asset management plan. If the two areas are agreed this evening, then we'll undertake a final review of the asset management plan updating elements that have changed from the original version being approved in December 23, a corporate plan priorities and any other Council policies. And then we would look to publish this on the Council's website as soon as possible thereafter. All other documents within the suite of the assets documents that are referred to within the report are in traction. You've recently seen the business plans. The asset investment strategy is the next item on the agenda for discussion this evening, and we'll be bringing a review of the 23, 24 financial year within the next couple of months. I'm happy to take any questions. Thank you. Thank you, Corley. Do you see if you have any questions? Councillor Nichols. Thank you. KPIs and risk registers are inherently living documents. So, what's the plan for frequency of review and by whom will it be done? Corley. Part of the asset management plan is that whilst it's a five-year document, we will review it annually and update it as necessary and we will bring any reports back to this committee prior to making any changes for approval. Councillor Nichols. So, does that mean the risk register review annually? Because that's not frequent enough. That was the proposal, but we can review that more regularly. What frequency would you think is suitable? Personally, I would think quarterly, the corporate risk register is reviewed by the audit committee, which will be four meetings here going forward at each meeting. So, I do think, you know, it doesn't have to be a long exercise, but risks change. You can't allow them to go on for 12 months. Colleen. Would it be acceptable to do it half yearly? The only reason being that at each half, each takes six-monthly interval, we will be bringing a review of the portfolio, so beginning of year, end of year, mid-year, and then we could incorporate that update of the risk register as part of that review. If you want an honest answer, no, because the risk register would be updated whenever it needs updating, then that's how you should do it. I mean, it's not something you do on an annual semi-annual basis. If things change, the register would be kept up to date. It should be a living, breathing thing. Can I make a suggestion that unless there's something really, you know, different that is going to change, only then I do notify us. I'm in principle in agreement that it should be in nine or six months, but if there is something that is absolutely that needs to come to this committee, but it's for committee members to decide, then it needs to be brought to our attention immediately. Yeah, I would kind of assume that if there was a new pressing risk that the assets team wouldn't just sit on it for six months for a year before telling us. Council Gibson, you want to comment? Yeah, again, another panicky one on page four. These are the next steps. We just talk about. We're going to ensure that the KPIs reflect any other council policy changes since December 23, i.e. the corporate plan and will then be published on the council's website. Will there be a need to update the corporate plan as well? Um, I'm not sure that we need to take the corporate plan. I'm sorry. Could you explain your thinking? No, I was just wondering whether and there would be any implications for the corporate plan in here. Just a yes, no. Thank you. Any other questions? Councilor Clarke, then Councillor HAPPENS. Thanks. Thanks, Chair. I'd like to double thing off. I'd like to point out that normally risk, and this is to support Councillor Nichols. Risk can't be seen as a separate item. Risk is present in everything that happens constantly. And in my naivety probably about this committee, I think fundamentally we need to be discussing the risks because they do change over time and opportunities change over time. So we need to identify by assessing the risk register, but particularly the high ones, the four falls, the non-compliance of health and safety legislation and things like that, we should be really discussing these things broadly, but before anything else, you know, sort of reports being talked about, I think we need to be discussing the same right, what are we doing with this, what are we doing with that, you know, just so that we really understand where our threats are to the council, when we're going to make the front page of the sun, or the front page of the sun. Or whatever. And the risk register is absolutely, we should constant, is absolutely where that lies. Couple of COVID, over here. Thank you. I think while, yes, I agree with what you're saying to an extent, I think this comes back to Councillor Sexton's point. If something were to happen, then of course we would bring it back, we wouldn't leave it to the six-month year of year, if something significant happened. We have proposed and it has been agreed under the asset management plan that we will do six monthly updates on the portfolios to make sure that all the forthcoming and historic issues are shared with members. But for me, this comes back to the point of we have a small team, we need to be actually out on the ground doing the day job, managing the investments, getting the rental income in. If we are continually reporting, it takes us away from doing that. So, I think it's a balance. Understood, thanks. Councillor Hopkins. With the risk register, they do bring it to the audit committee all the time. I mean, you're saying that it takes a lot to update it, but if there's no significant change, you could turn around and just submit saying that literally no significant change. That way, then you've turned around and fulfilled your theme to report, and that if there is any questions further down the line, they are answered with they did their due diligence and they said there was no problem. Corley. So, the risks that we have on our specific risk register are captured in the corporate risk register, albeit at a higher level. And I think, as I say, it comes back to the fact that whilst it might seem that it's a simple case of just bringing a report back through to committee, actually the preparation of that report and the various cycles it needs to go to to get to this point do actually take up quite a lot of time. Any other questions? Councillor Bingham. Thank you. Regarding the risk management, I think it is responsible that they should adapt their response with Andrew. You know, it's quickly sweep sweep the response because, you know, a new risk could get worse, people getting better. So, regularly updates the risk management information and more quickly I say constantly, that is vital to a mitigate or prevent risk. First one, second one, regarding the risk register, I think it, the tender management is very important. Yeah, to keep with its income and capable talents. So, regularly inspection, I think it's absolutely needed. And monthly site inspection also absolutely important. So, we engage with our tenants on a regular basis, we have managing agents that manage the assets for us. And whilst I agree that the risk register needs to be monitored and it needs to be updated, we obviously understand what's on the risk register, we're working on this on the day in day out basis and we would amend things accordingly. We don't have the resource ourselves to do specific annual inspections of each of the properties, that's why we have the managing agents there. However, just to carry out that, we are at the properties probably once a week doing different things, meeting with tenants and things like that. So, of course, we're understanding what's going on and we're in regular dialogue with managing agents probably once, twice a week, if not more than that. So, just to provide that assurance, thanks. Carly, any other questions from members? Councillor Nichols. I'm slightly perturbed that risk management is seen as an overhead. It should be an integral part of what we're doing and it should be something lived and breathed. As you've said, currently, quite correctly, you're aware of the risk constantly. There is another important aspect to bringing the risk register, why it needs to report is probably quite beyond me, I don't think it sure does need one, it just needs to register. So, it can be challenged. So, you're thinking, which could become in a rut, can be challenged by other people saying, why is that important, why is that not important, why this has happened, why haven't you reflected that. And that challenge is absolutely vital part of risk management. I think, sorry, Councillor Klops, is it on this point? Yes, it was. Again, to support Councillor Nichols, we get residents who ask us, who find it information, and they ask us and say, well, what's going on, I hear this is really bad. And if you don't know where they're sort of up arrows and down arrows and everything else like that, we can't really answer them effectively. Well, we have to wait until six months until we get to report, and then we get to report. And I entirely get the overhead of the work and everything else out. But I'd be really comfortable if even if you went through, right, these are the top risks and we're just going to, you know, we're just going to talk them through and just give you a gut feeling. Reports don't need to be done. You just say, this is like really, really important to the residents. It's, you know, the people on the committee here will be in the firing line. Should anything go wrong? So if we've got a dog in the fire, you know, we need to vocalise genuinely how we feel about stuff. And this risk doesn't sit comfortably with me the way it's being articulated to us at the moment. Thank you. Can we take that away and then perhaps come and just have some time to think about how we can move it forward. As Daniel has just reminded me, we do some of this on a daily and fortnightly regular basis with some of the meetings that we have with members anyway. So if we can just think about how we can articulate this in perhaps a slightly different way and then come back with some suggestions. I was going to say something very similar. I'm sure this is happening on warmest daily basis. It's just a case of how we get reported back to this committee. And it could be simply that we have a standing item, any major changes in risk. Verbal report, ten minutes, you know, if this has happened, that's happened. We don't have to convert it into a massive risk register exercise. That would be my suggestion. That's a section. I completely concur. At the end of the day, I don't have to keep writing reports. And obviously we get an update every six months, but an update would be great. Yeah, perfect. Thank you. Thank you. Councillor Gibson. Okay. Penny Katie again. Referencing KPIs and tracking performance. I don't know if this is relevant, but in our corporate plan, we do say that any changes to KPIs, et cetera. And plans and targets will be reflected in the next annual refresh of the corporate plan and the budgeting process, which is why I asked the question whether the corporate plan would actually be implicated. It's just a cross-referencing element. Thank you for clarifying. Does anybody else have any questions on this item, then we'll move on? No. Thank you. Thank you, Carley. Does the committee agree to one, approve the updated key performance indicators and risk register, which will form part of the final version of the asset management plan or AMP 2024 to 2028. I do agree subject to a final review of the asset management plan being undertaken to ensure it reflects any other Council policy changes since December 2023, but the AMP can be published on the Council's website. Do we agree? Agreed. Thank you. The next item is exclusion of the public only pressed for exempt business. We will now need to move into part two to deal with exempt business. As we will be discussing private information, we will need to formally agree to exclude the public from this meeting. May I have a proposal to move the exclusion of the pressing public for this discussion in view of the likely disclosure of exempt information within the meaning of paragraph three, a part one of schedule 12A of the local governments act in 1972, which states information relating to the financial or business affairs of any particular person, including the authority holding that information, and in all the circumstances of the case, the public interest in maintaining the exemption outweighs the public interest. In disclosing the information because disclosure of the public would prejudice the financial position of the authority in being able to undertake even handed negotiations and finalizing acceptable contract terms. Can I have a proposal, please? Council o'clock, thank you. Is that seconded? Council will do it. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. 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Transcript
[BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] Welcome to this meeting of the Development Subcommittee. The beginning of this meeting is being live broadcast to YouTube to the public to see and hear the proceedings. Please can I ask that you turn your microphone on when speaking. May I ask everyone to turn off any mobile phones or switch them to silent mode. In the event of a fire alarm sounding, please follow the council officers out of the building and do not use the lift. You may see that from time to time, I'll be speaking to the officers on the dais who will be guiding me through any procedural points. The intention is for this meeting to finish by 10 o'clock. And can I ask that members dispose of any used cups in the bins provided outside the agenda, outside the chamber? Turning to the agenda, apologies for absence and substitutions. No apologies have been received. Are members of the committee aware of any apologies? No, thank you. Minutes. At this point, I say, do members agree the minutes from the meeting held on 25 March 2024 as a correct record? But I am going to propose one very small change to those minutes before we agree them. Which is on page 7, section 324, you will see on regarding the waterfront site. It says the subcommittee considered a report from the development management consultant on the heads of terms from the agreement for breach 3 car park and handover house. The subcommittee resolved to recommend to CPRC and council subject the report being amended as discussed to approve the recommendations are set out in the report. I am going to add to that something to the effect that the subcommittee delegated authority to make that recommendation CPRC to the chair and vice chair of the committee. And that's relevant because in reality, what happened is one of the questions that we had wasn't answered in time to get it to CPRC and re-reading the documents. Both Sean and myself had some additional questions which we addressed all last Monday. So, Council, how can you? Is it worth adding in that it never made it to the CPRC that it was going to? Yes, that's what I just said, it didn't make it to CPRC so we could be going to the June one. Yeah, I don't know if we put that in the meeting because that minutes because that obviously happened after the meeting to which the minutes refer. So, I'm sorry, just repeat then. So, is everybody happy if we just make that small amendment that the minutes otherwise are accurate? Thank you very much. Disclosures of interest. Does any member have a disclosure of interest to make in relation to any item on the agenda other than the standing declaration from those members who are also on the planning committee or our city councilor or our director of building states? No, thank you very much. Item number four is questions from members of the public and there are no questions from members of the public. Item five is urgent actions. There are none. I think we're going to add one. Thank you. Item six is the development subcommittee forward plan. Does the committee have any comments in respect of the forward plan? No, thank you. Do we agree? I apologize. Thank you. Fine. Do we not sorry, welcome. On the floor plan, do we not actually have a column that says our delegation of responsibility decision making responsibility. So, I don't think we do currently. Why do you think we're agreed to do that or. To the development subcommittee. Not so. The only problem I have is I can't for the life of me find it right at this point in time. But what I'm asking for is. If that is the case, yes, here we go. We've got on the forward plan, anticipated earliest or next date of decision and decision maker, which is on the public reports pack page 20. All the decisions are deemed to be being made by the development subcommittee. I just wanted to see clarification because later on in the report, we say that we're actually recommending that decisions be made by C. C P and R. So I just wanted to clarify what that decision making process was and whether I'm reading it the wrong way or not. And in the forward plan, which is on the public reports pack page 20. That is not the way I interpreted that and I may have interpreted it correctly is more about the committee that the item will come to in term and the date that it would come. So I think most of the decisions need to be unless the C.P.R.C. have granted authority dance development subcommittee. My understanding is that development subcommittee is there as an advisory committee to C.P.R.C. but isn't actually able to take decisions. Okay, in that case, Corley, I was just seeking either clarification and or correction because in the development delivery strategy, not the one that's version four, but the other one page 23. The recommendation is to recommend to C.P.R.C. for a decision. So if you read the documentation in its entirety, it's not clear who's making the decisions. And I just wanted to see whether we can actually review that and clarify exactly how that decision making process is going to work. In that case, we need to look through the documentation and just clarify that. That's right. And I'm happy to sit with and just go through it. Which documentation? Sorry, is the report not? We've got the decision making is down to the development sub in the reports pack page 20, but in the development delivery strategy, it says that we're asking C.P.R.C. to make decisions. And all I'm asking is, as someone looking at this documentation, the decision making process isn't clear. Can I keep cutting that? I think if we changed it, then it says anticipated earliest or next date of decision and decision maker. If we change that to and decision maker on recommendation. Fine. That would answer the answer. That would clarify it a little bit. Yes, sir. Thank you. You got that? Okay, we'll make that change. Thank you. Any questions? I'm happy to help. Thank you. So, if I can just clarify, the decision you're making today is to recommend to C.P.R.C. That's why it says development subcommittee because on this day, you've got to make that decision as to whether you recommend it or don't recommend it. The C.P.R.C. decision comes later and is on the C.P.R.C. forward plan. This forward plan is just for. Sorry, it's mine. I think that's understood. Correct, but it doesn't actually say that in the documentation. So it just needs to say that. Yeah, we can make that change. We'll just change it to and decision maker regarding recommendation. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Okay. Does C.P.R.C. have any other questions? Yes, Councillor Nichols. Thank you, Chair. The forward plan dates are 17th to the 6th, relating to the development subcommittee. If we make the changes to the committee structure, development subcommittee won't exist at that point, will these tasks be reallocated? I'm confident they will be, and I'm confident that our compliance people will ensure that all of the duties responsibilities task transfer to the new committee. But thank you for raising the point. Were there any other questions or comments indeed on the forward plan? No? I saw a late arrival for us to be discussing today. So I'm just wondering, will that come off of the forward plan? There was an urgent item. Did that urgent item come in for us to be discussing later? It's on the forward plan, so I'm guessing we're discussing it today, or how's that working? I believe it's slightly different. It's, yes, ashford victory places on the forward plan. I think this is perhaps a separate issue to what the forward plan is. Okay, just that it jumped in quite quickly, and I didn't get a chance to really. There's no report. It's a verbal item, so. Thank you. Anyone else? Anything else? Do we agree to note the forward plan? Thank you. Item seven is the development delivery strategy. This item is to recommend to corporate policy and resources committee to approve the introduction of a development strategy. And can be found on pages 23 to 36 of the main agenda. And Corley Holman will present the report. No, too, Corley. Thank you and good evening, committee. Since the decision was taken by the council to stop direct building on our own sites, as you're probably aware, we're looking to progress delivery via a number of partnership initiatives. Delivery on each of the sites could take many different forms and be different on a site-by-site basis. Adoption of a development delivery strategy will set out criteria to approve options. Without such established criteria, we can't ensure consistency in approach, which may result in delayed decision-making and continued financial pressures. The strategy that is before you this evening has been developed following a member workshop to allow sufficient flexibility so bespoke decisions can be made for each site, but within agreed parameters that set out principles and objectives, which are summarised in section 3.2 of the report this evening. These include being joined up with the local plan, achieving best value and decisions being taken by councillors. Thank you. Thank you, Corley. Does the committee have any questions? I know they're awesome. Councillor Bingham. Yes, thank you. And Councillor Gibson. I'm page 24. There is your, just one minute, I finally hear. And on page 24, left, Paul, you're here. You see some, some, some polishing of arrangement or unconditional dispose. So can you explain a, what kind of properties the management team intended to be unconditional dispose? Because you mentioned there. Thank you. So that's something just to provide flexibility. No decisions have been taken as to which sites will be unconditionally disposed of, which will be partnership arrangements. Those will be brought back to this committee on a site-by-site basis with a range of options and then a recommendation. So the policy or the strategy as I've just set out is setting out some parameters and objectives, to make sure that the decision-making can be made on a site-by-site basis when we bring additional reports on each site to the committee at the appropriate time. And that will range over a period of months as we move forward. Yes, thank you, but however, if your assets, you're, you're perturbed with the, with the price you paid. So I don't know what kind of assets or properties could be a capital to be an unconditional dispose property. If I can give an example, and this is just an example not to say that any decisions are being taken, but with Ashford Victory Place, which is something that we're discussing on the agenda later, we have a site there that has planning approval in place for 127 units. So again, we agreed at one of the meetings before Christmas that we would go out and undertake a full marketing campaign, and we were bringing the outcomes, potentially bringing the outcomes of that full marketing campaign pending on the conversation later back to the committee. And some of those offers may be for unconditional purchases, so it may be that the committee decide that they want to move forward with direct disposal of that site on an unconditional basis. And as I say, please don't read anything into that. That is just an example of a decision that could be made. I'm not suggesting that that is going to be the outcome. Thank you. Thank you, Councilor Bingham. Councillor Boral, next. Yeah, a couple of little queries. On page 25, item 2.3, it says not to undertake any development delivery in the short term work. My question is, what is the short term? I guess it's until interest rates go below the 2.2%, whether that's six months or six years. But even then, we would still have mountains of debt. Colleen? So I think the short term hasn't been defined when the decision was taken before Christmas. It was very much predicated on the basis that interest rates had risen. Building construction costs had risen, and there was a lot of developer risk associated. So, I think until the foreseeable future where guided by finance colleagues and bringing other decisions back to this committee, the approaches that we won't be doing any direct development. But whether that's six months or three years, I couldn't comment at the moment. And the other point, thank you for that, the point on page 26, 6.1, it says to achieve best value in terms of financial returns, which in turn relates to the financial resilience of the Council. I'm not sure that we really want to have financial resilience as the ultimate destination criteria of what is appropriate. I mean, it's part of it, but I wouldn't say that would be all. Yes, sorry, Colleen. Thank you. We have a statutory obligation to achieve best value. By doing that, we either independently market all the sites so we can determine what the best offer is coming in, or we get independent evaluations carried out. And I think that's part of the decision making for the committee as we move forward. So, as officers, we will include within the report, if it's an overall using ash for victory place again as an example, presenting a range of offers that has been achieved and the financial pros and cons with each of those sites. But it may be that the committee decide actually best value means something else, not just financial, and that a decision is taken that achieving affordable housing on the site is more important than getting the significant receipt. As officers, I think we will present that to members on the basis of understanding what the holding costs for each site are, what the capital costs of the site are in our books. And if we were to move forward with progressing a transaction where we were getting less than the number that we've got in our books, then there would be a write-off that would effectively come into the revenue budget as a result of that. So, again, it's very much for members to take those decisions, but because we have the statutory obligation for best value, then we are obligated to demonstrate what that means in financial terms and the loss that would be incurred and how it would be incurred if that was the decision taken. Thank you very much. Very helpful. Thank you. Thank you. Did you have a question, Councillor Gibson? And then Councillor Harkins, I'm not ignoring you. Thank you, sir. Oh, yes, I did. Actually, just to expand on Councillor Burrell's point and to seek clarification and maybe an amendment to the report, because on page 23 title summary of the report, the wording is whilst the Council will no longer be directly developing any of its sites, it appears to be contradicted by 2.3 on page 25, which says in the autumn 2023, the Council took a decision not to undertake any direct development delivery in the short term. So either we're never going to do it, or it's going to be in the short term, and I was just seeking some form of clarification. Am I reading that correctly? I think it's more just about a play on words. Obviously, item one is a summary of the report, which says at the current, so it's basically saying at the current time the Council is no longer directly developing. As I responded to the previous question whether that changes down the line very possibly, but how long that will be, I don't know, but the current decision is we're not doing any direct development. So maybe the both statements could say the same thing rather than appear to be contradicting each other? I would dip in there and say I don't think it's an apparent contradiction just because one says no longer and the other says in the short term. It's not actually a contradiction, but I'm sure we can finesse the wording to accommodate your request. Thank you, and again another little Pinikati one, apologies, corally, don't hate me. Page 24 key issues, 2.2, we say that the strategic purpose of the development regeneration portfolio is to ensure the borough remains an attractive place to live, work and undertake leisure activities through delivery of high quality affordable housing, social infrastructure and commercial property requirements of residents and local businesses. However, now correct me if I'm wrong here, it appears that the wording on 3 point, bear with me, on point 6, financial implications does actually say, once the introduction of the strategy has no direct financial implication in isolation, implementation of the strategy sets out the council's statutory obligations to achieve best value in terms of financial returns, which in turn relates to the financial resilience of the council. So all I'm asking is just to expand on Councillor Burrell's point, does point 6 financial implication trump the wording in the point under key issues that is talking about making the whole scenario, and the development and regeneration portfolio ensuring that all the things that we really love. Am I being, am I being Pinikati here? Yes. I'm just going to say you're not allowed to say yes. I think the financial implications, correct me if I'm wrong, but the first paragraph is lifted from another document which sets out the overall strategic purpose of these investments. Paragraph 6 is quite specifically picking up on the financial implications of this report, i.e. that we have to consider getting best value for money regardless of what we do, which is within the broader framework. It's a legal obligation, we have to pay attention to 20 questions here. It does not trump the earlier comments, the two do sit side by side. 6.1 is simply a matter of detail that fits within the overall strategy, that would be my interpretation. Thank you, sir. It's just that in the unfortunate position of having a little bit of history behind us where in the past we have actually been put under pressure to adopt certain developments purely for financial viability, and that was at the disadvantage of other elements, so I just want to make sure that that's not going to happen again. We will note that. Thank you, sir. And I've got one final point, and again, Corley, if you run me over, I'll understand, but if you take a look at, just this is just to help me in the agenda, if in the agenda documentation that was sent out, we've got two documents with exactly the same title, development, delivery strategy, but they're two completely different documents, so if we could just make sure that we title documents with the same name differently, then at least I won't get confused sometimes when I'm looking through the copious numbers of documentation we get given. Could you direct me to which of the two documents? Yes, sir. If you take a look at all the documents we receive in the agenda, we've got the agenda, then we've got a number of other documents. Point six, we've got the forward plan. Seven, we've got the development delivery strategy, and then if you look further down, additional documents, we've got another development delivery strategy, but it's different to the development delivery strategy above. So, I don't really know how the documents are pulled together, but it is to me, and I apologize if nobody else gets confused, but it confuses me. One's appendix four, and one isn't. I mean, not a version four, and one isn't. Okay, I think the answer, I can understand your confusion. The first item refers to the report about the development delivery strategy. The second document is the actual development delivery strategy, so I think to avoid any future confusion, if we entitle the report on the development delivery strategy. It's a small thing, but when you're trying to do it through that much stuff, it really does confuse. Thank you so much. No, I quite appreciate the point, and it must be even more confusing for members of the public to follow it, so fair enough. Sorry, Councillor HOWKINS. Mine's a quick one. Ashford Victory Place, can you remind me where it is, please? Is it the one at the back of the hospital? Okay, right. Looking at your chart, you've got down six out of the eleven properties for disposal. Are you sort of actively going to dispose of them, or are you actively looking for partnership agreements, or is it just a plan that you're thinking of doing, but nothing's actually actively being done? I'll hand that to you, currently. I think it's the latter, so we won't be taking anything to market or doing any marketing until we've bought reports through this committee and got this committee's approval. So, yes, with Ashford Victory Place, we got that approval before Christmas, and we have started marketing, and we'll be coming on to that item later, where we've got a bit of an interim update. But the others, we're not progressing, which is we're taking the actions that the committee agree. Okay, thank you. Do any other committee members have any questions on this item? Okay, Councillor Nichols. Sorry, could you just remind me of what the decision on Ashford Victory Place before Christmas actually was? Yeah, it was to go out and undertake a full and comprehensive marketing campaign. Okay, I can't recall it quite in those terms, but no matter. Could you explain how you expect residents to interpret appendix two? In the sense of those are just anticipated delivery mechanisms from what we see as potentially acceptable to the marketplace, as I say they, and it's put anticipated because we haven't bought any of the reports back to site formally, and the committee hasn't made any decisions as to which way it wants to go. So, it's effectively trying to incorporate flexibility, but give a little bit of a guide as to what we think would be acceptable to the market. I'm going to query why that's a good idea, because this is going to go into the public domain, or isn't the public domain, saying that we intend to sell Thameside House. So, is that the impression you wish to create with the public? I think where we were probably at the time, we felt that that was the potential way forward. We can amend this, as I say, we're bringing this document here tonight to get feedback, we can amend that as we, as the committee decide it wants to. So, if we don't think that that's a good idea, and we need to include something more general, this is a draft strategy before it's finally published. Yeah, we can update as you would like us to. I would like to approach here that we don't publish appendix two on the grounds that if I was asked to defend that particular thing, I couldn't say I had any reason to believe or understand why that decision or that opinion was being expressed. Yeah, absolutely fine. So, we're all nodding. Are we all nodding saying don't publish, are we saying change that option? I think from my understanding, if I may chair, is that things may change, and therefore we don't want to put something else, not definitive at this time. Okay, so, on this point, Councillor Fark, please go ahead. It seems to me, Chair, that we're either kicking a can down the road, which is what I think we're doing, but then we're saying that we could do this, this or this. And it worries me that there might be people planning to do this, this or this, and it's this, the final this that we're going, this is what the master plan is. You know, I think if you're just kicking a can down the road and some interest rates come down, that's fantastic, but sometimes we don't need to error a dirty laundry in front of the public, otherwise that they will interpret it in their own way. And some people will be thinking, well, actually, well, let's work out how to, you know, when there's a fire sale, let's get in there quick so that we're in good state. Whereas what we are sat on, you know, great assets that the market is changing. So I think the do nothing thing would be probably the safest way forward in all honesty, currently. I think because of the timescales, actually, the do nothing thing is quite dangerous. In the sense of we are holding these sites, they're costing us money, they can only sit on our capital, I don't want to come in in a minute, if I'm not quite articulating this correctly. But they're sitting on our capital balance sheets as liabilities at the moment, they can only sit in on there under some of the sit for regulations for a certain period of time because of the developments that we were proposing moving forward, and that we are still moving those forward in one way or the other. So if we did the do nothing option, we've got a wrath of costs which go into the millions of pounds that we would have to write back into revenue and I'm relatively confident that that's not financially sustainable and certainly wouldn't be supported by the Terry or Paul or Matt. I would agree what you say, and I would say that we've been through an unprecedented few years, quite a few years in all honesty, and it seems that now that the FTSU has just gone back through 8,000 points again, and interest rates are due to be coming down, I would say that the market is changing. And I would say that we have been in a better position more of a bullish market so that therefore, if we send out, if we hold our nerve, I think for just a little bit longer, we may all be in a better position. Corley? Can I respond and I think probably Paul wants to say something so whilst there is talk of interest rates coming down, things may or may not be stabilising, I think we've just had a meeting which would suggest things may not start picking up again for another 9-12 months. I think we don't know what's going to happen out there, there's still a lot of risk attached to the sites while construction costs are coming down, interest rates probably will come down, but that's not certain yet. The viability of a number of these sites is still significantly greater than a few years ago when we were doing this direct development ourselves, so actually the risk of construction costs and the viability of the sites probably isn't going to come back for a while. Can I hand over to Paul? That's OK, thanks. Paul, over to you. Thank you, Chair. Good evening, Councillors. I'll just reiterate what Corley has said. Doing nothing is not an option. The moment you do nothing, we have to release the capital out of the balance sheet into the revenue budget and then you'll be working on how you're going to balance the books and considering there is in excess of 15-16 million pounds in the balance sheet. That will be a serious challenge for you to deal with. The formality is that we have, or Council has agreed, that there will be a suspension of direct development because of interest rates, building construction, inflation, et cetera, and therefore we're looking at options to develop the sites with joint ventures. In between times, we could see a swing back the other way where interest rates come back down to a more realistic level that we've experienced over the last 20 years, let's say 2%, 2.5%, and building inflation comes down to an average of 2%. If the Council can reassess its assessment of direct delivery, but as it stands at the moment, you are looking at formally finding joint ventures to deliver your affordable housing projects, and if you decide to do nothing, then we have to come back to you with a paper to release the funds in the balance sheet back to revenue budgets with a plan of how we're going to rebalance the budget. Thank you. I'm just chipping my Toppensworth as well as if we were to do nothing and take that cost, it doesn't move us forward. Are there any other questions on this point, Councillor Nichols. Thank you. I certainly think would echo what those have said about moving forward as quickly as possible. Looking at the indicative project methodology, what I would like to see in particular is the local Council consultations on preparation of the site specific delivery strategy going ahead immediately. It's quickly as possible because that is what will condition whether we know what we're going to do to the sites. Corley. I think that's a very valid point. We're trying to do that. We've started work on a number of sites and we are going to be bringing reports forward. I think probably the only thing that I would caveat that with, we're a small team, we've got a lot of work, so we do have to kind of manage our resources and the work that we can move forward within our capability, but I don't disagree with your point. I'm just going to pick up on that. You've just hit the nail on the head. I think what is missing from this report is simply the priorities. I think we need to jointly decide which are the top priorities in here, and then crack on with those, and if that means to Councillor Park's point, putting something to one side in the very short term because we're focusing on the other thing, so we need to do that. We'll need to start making progress on these. Councillor SEXING. Obviously, we can't do everything at once, and I do think absolutely we need to prioritise and have some sort of timeline to focus the minds, but taking into consideration the constraints and resources you have, but actually to make things happen, so that would be fabulous. Thank you. And one final point on this, if I may, one of the prioritisation measures one of the factors should be, if we part this, how much we're going to have to write off. Councillor GIBSON. Just seeking clarification from Paul, could you identify which affordable housing projects you were meaning, please? All of the affordable housing projects, Councillor GIBSON. Sorry, colleagues, did you want to? Thank you. I think that was a really good suggestion and what I was just going to inquire about, rather than, I don't think there is a CPLC who may actually think about it, but if we did some work around the amendments to the policy and brought an updated report back in May that included some suggestions of prioritisation of housing. And then the prioritisation of sites with the pros and cons and the reasons supporting that, would that be accepted to the committee in advance of taking something through to the CPRC? Could you repeat that, please? That didn't compute with me? Sorry, colleagues, suggesting that between now and next CPRC, hopefully, officers could sit down and draw a priority list of these to work through, and I would suggest that, ideally, you include one or two Councillors in that process. Did that clarify for you, Councillor GIBSON? Yeah, I was just asking, Paul named two affordable housing projects in the affordable housing projects he meant, just for clarification. Paul, do you have a couple of examples you could get? I'm not sure I understand the question, but they're related to all our development projects, the comments that we have been making. So, that would be Ashford multi-storey, Ashford Victory Place, Thameside, etc. I think there's five, isn't there, five projects, six projects? Thank you, Paul. It's just that it sounded to me that they were solely affordable housing projects rather than a mixture, potentially market value and affordable housing. 100% affordable, I needed clarification, thank you. Any other questions? Councillor HACKENS? Just one quick one. When you do that report, can you not print green on top of green, because you lose some of the words? I'm sure we can accommodate that request. So, am I taking from that, then, offline, I and the Deputy will speak to Carolee and a group of people to assemble a small team to prioritise these items? Is that acceptable to committee? Okay, thank you. Are there any other questions on this before we... No. Okay. So, does the committee agree to recommend to corporate policy and resources committee to approve the introduction of the development delivery strategy, approve the form and content of the draft delivery development delivery strategy attached to the report, and refer the development delivery strategy to full Council for adoption. Councillor NICKLES? I thought we were going to remove Bendix 2. Thank you. I wonder whether, because of some of the changes we need in the prioritisation, could we defer the recommendations to the main meeting and the next report? Would that be acceptable? Absolutely, yes. Yeah. Okay, scrap what I've just said. Moving on. The next item is, hopefully, the asset management plan review, key performance indicators and risk register. This item is to approve the updated key performance indicators and risk register for the asset management plan 24 to 28, which can be found on pages 3 to 16 of the supplementary agenda. Carly Holman, what percent report? Thank you, Chair. So, the asset management plan and strategy have been previously approved by Development Subcommittee, CPRC and full Council, subject to officers undertaking a review and a further member workshop to focus on the KPIs and the risk register. That workshop took place in March this year. So, the KPIs and the risk register have been revised accordingly, so we now are presenting them to you as being documents that are ready for inclusion within the asset management plan. If the two areas are agreed this evening, then we'll undertake a final review of the asset management plan updating elements that have changed from the original version being approved in December 23, a corporate plan priorities and any other Council policies. And then we would look to publish this on the Council's website as soon as possible thereafter. All other documents within the suite of the assets documents that are referred to within the report are in traction. You've recently seen the business plans. The asset investment strategy is the next item on the agenda for discussion this evening, and we'll be bringing a review of the 23, 24 financial year within the next couple of months. I'm happy to take any questions. Thank you. Thank you, Corley. Do you see if you have any questions? Councillor Nichols. Thank you. KPIs and risk registers are inherently living documents. So, what's the plan for frequency of review and by whom will it be done? Corley. Part of the asset management plan is that whilst it's a five-year document, we will review it annually and update it as necessary and we will bring any reports back to this committee prior to making any changes for approval. Councillor Nichols. So, does that mean the risk register review annually? Because that's not frequent enough. That was the proposal, but we can review that more regularly. What frequency would you think is suitable? Personally, I would think quarterly, the corporate risk register is reviewed by the audit committee, which will be four meetings here going forward at each meeting. So, I do think, you know, it doesn't have to be a long exercise, but risks change. You can't allow them to go on for 12 months. Colleen. Would it be acceptable to do it half yearly? The only reason being that at each half, each takes six-monthly interval, we will be bringing a review of the portfolio, so beginning of year, end of year, mid-year, and then we could incorporate that update of the risk register as part of that review. If you want an honest answer, no, because the risk register would be updated whenever it needs updating, then that's how you should do it. I mean, it's not something you do on an annual semi-annual basis. If things change, the register would be kept up to date. It should be a living, breathing thing. Can I make a suggestion that unless there's something really, you know, different that is going to change, only then I do notify us. I'm in principle in agreement that it should be in nine or six months, but if there is something that is absolutely that needs to come to this committee, but it's for committee members to decide, then it needs to be brought to our attention immediately. Yeah, I would kind of assume that if there was a new pressing risk that the assets team wouldn't just sit on it for six months for a year before telling us. Council Gibson, you want to comment? Yeah, again, another panicky one on page four. These are the next steps. We just talk about. We're going to ensure that the KPIs reflect any other council policy changes since December 23, i.e. the corporate plan and will then be published on the council's website. Will there be a need to update the corporate plan as well? Um, I'm not sure that we need to take the corporate plan. I'm sorry. Could you explain your thinking? No, I was just wondering whether and there would be any implications for the corporate plan in here. Just a yes, no. Thank you. Any other questions? Councilor Clarke, then Councillor HAPPENS. Thanks. Thanks, Chair. I'd like to double thing off. I'd like to point out that normally risk, and this is to support Councillor Nichols. Risk can't be seen as a separate item. Risk is present in everything that happens constantly. And in my naivety probably about this committee, I think fundamentally we need to be discussing the risks because they do change over time and opportunities change over time. So we need to identify by assessing the risk register, but particularly the high ones, the four falls, the non-compliance of health and safety legislation and things like that, we should be really discussing these things broadly, but before anything else, you know, sort of reports being talked about, I think we need to be discussing the same right, what are we doing with this, what are we doing with that, you know, just so that we really understand where our threats are to the council, when we're going to make the front page of the sun, or the front page of the sun. Or whatever. And the risk register is absolutely, we should constant, is absolutely where that lies. Couple of COVID, over here. Thank you. I think while, yes, I agree with what you're saying to an extent, I think this comes back to Councillor Sexton's point. If something were to happen, then of course we would bring it back, we wouldn't leave it to the six-month year of year, if something significant happened. We have proposed and it has been agreed under the asset management plan that we will do six monthly updates on the portfolios to make sure that all the forthcoming and historic issues are shared with members. But for me, this comes back to the point of we have a small team, we need to be actually out on the ground doing the day job, managing the investments, getting the rental income in. If we are continually reporting, it takes us away from doing that. So, I think it's a balance. Understood, thanks. Councillor Hopkins. With the risk register, they do bring it to the audit committee all the time. I mean, you're saying that it takes a lot to update it, but if there's no significant change, you could turn around and just submit saying that literally no significant change. That way, then you've turned around and fulfilled your theme to report, and that if there is any questions further down the line, they are answered with they did their due diligence and they said there was no problem. Corley. So, the risks that we have on our specific risk register are captured in the corporate risk register, albeit at a higher level. And I think, as I say, it comes back to the fact that whilst it might seem that it's a simple case of just bringing a report back through to committee, actually the preparation of that report and the various cycles it needs to go to to get to this point do actually take up quite a lot of time. Any other questions? Councillor Bingham. Thank you. Regarding the risk management, I think it is responsible that they should adapt their response with Andrew. You know, it's quickly sweep sweep the response because, you know, a new risk could get worse, people getting better. So, regularly updates the risk management information and more quickly I say constantly, that is vital to a mitigate or prevent risk. First one, second one, regarding the risk register, I think it, the tender management is very important. Yeah, to keep with its income and capable talents. So, regularly inspection, I think it's absolutely needed. And monthly site inspection also absolutely important. So, we engage with our tenants on a regular basis, we have managing agents that manage the assets for us. And whilst I agree that the risk register needs to be monitored and it needs to be updated, we obviously understand what's on the risk register, we're working on this on the day in day out basis and we would amend things accordingly. We don't have the resource ourselves to do specific annual inspections of each of the properties, that's why we have the managing agents there. However, just to carry out that, we are at the properties probably once a week doing different things, meeting with tenants and things like that. So, of course, we're understanding what's going on and we're in regular dialogue with managing agents probably once, twice a week, if not more than that. So, just to provide that assurance, thanks. Carly, any other questions from members? Councillor Nichols. I'm slightly perturbed that risk management is seen as an overhead. It should be an integral part of what we're doing and it should be something lived and breathed. As you've said, currently, quite correctly, you're aware of the risk constantly. There is another important aspect to bringing the risk register, why it needs to report is probably quite beyond me, I don't think it sure does need one, it just needs to register. So, it can be challenged. So, you're thinking, which could become in a rut, can be challenged by other people saying, why is that important, why is that not important, why this has happened, why haven't you reflected that. And that challenge is absolutely vital part of risk management. I think, sorry, Councillor Klops, is it on this point? Yes, it was. Again, to support Councillor Nichols, we get residents who ask us, who find it information, and they ask us and say, well, what's going on, I hear this is really bad. And if you don't know where they're sort of up arrows and down arrows and everything else like that, we can't really answer them effectively. Well, we have to wait until six months until we get to report, and then we get to report. And I entirely get the overhead of the work and everything else out. But I'd be really comfortable if even if you went through, right, these are the top risks and we're just going to, you know, we're just going to talk them through and just give you a gut feeling. Reports don't need to be done. You just say, this is like really, really important to the residents. It's, you know, the people on the committee here will be in the firing line. Should anything go wrong? So if we've got a dog in the fire, you know, we need to vocalise genuinely how we feel about stuff. And this risk doesn't sit comfortably with me the way it's being articulated to us at the moment. Thank you. Can we take that away and then perhaps come and just have some time to think about how we can move it forward. As Daniel has just reminded me, we do some of this on a daily and fortnightly regular basis with some of the meetings that we have with members anyway. So if we can just think about how we can articulate this in perhaps a slightly different way and then come back with some suggestions. I was going to say something very similar. I'm sure this is happening on warmest daily basis. It's just a case of how we get reported back to this committee. And it could be simply that we have a standing item, any major changes in risk. Verbal report, ten minutes, you know, if this has happened, that's happened. We don't have to convert it into a massive risk register exercise. That would be my suggestion. That's a section. I completely concur. At the end of the day, I don't have to keep writing reports. And obviously we get an update every six months, but an update would be great. Yeah, perfect. Thank you. Thank you. Councillor Gibson. Okay. Penny Katie again. Referencing KPIs and tracking performance. I don't know if this is relevant, but in our corporate plan, we do say that any changes to KPIs, et cetera. And plans and targets will be reflected in the next annual refresh of the corporate plan and the budgeting process, which is why I asked the question whether the corporate plan would actually be implicated. It's just a cross-referencing element. Thank you for clarifying. Does anybody else have any questions on this item, then we'll move on? No. Thank you. Thank you, Carley. Does the committee agree to one, approve the updated key performance indicators and risk register, which will form part of the final version of the asset management plan or AMP 2024 to 2028. I do agree subject to a final review of the asset management plan being undertaken to ensure it reflects any other Council policy changes since December 2023, but the AMP can be published on the Council's website. Do we agree? Agreed. Thank you. The next item is exclusion of the public only pressed for exempt business. We will now need to move into part two to deal with exempt business. As we will be discussing private information, we will need to formally agree to exclude the public from this meeting. May I have a proposal to move the exclusion of the pressing public for this discussion in view of the likely disclosure of exempt information within the meaning of paragraph three, a part one of schedule 12A of the local governments act in 1972, which states information relating to the financial or business affairs of any particular person, including the authority holding that information, and in all the circumstances of the case, the public interest in maintaining the exemption outweighs the public interest. In disclosing the information because disclosure of the public would prejudice the financial position of the authority in being able to undertake even handed negotiations and finalizing acceptable contract terms. Can I have a proposal, please? Council o'clock, thank you. Is that seconded? Council will do it. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. 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Summary
The Development Subcommittee convened to discuss various matters concerning asset management and development strategies. Key topics included the approval of key performance indicators and risk registers, and discussions on the development delivery strategy and asset management plan.
Development Delivery Strategy: The committee debated the proposed development delivery strategy, which aims to outline criteria for site-specific development decisions. Concerns were raised about the clarity of decision-making authority and the potential implications of listing properties for unconditional disposal. The decision was deferred to allow for further clarification and prioritization of sites, reflecting the committee's cautious approach to asset disposal and development in a fluctuating market.
Asset Management Plan Review: The updated key performance indicators (KPIs) and risk register for the Asset Management Plan 2024-2028 were approved. Discussions focused on the frequency of risk register updates, with some members advocating for more frequent reviews to better manage potential risks. The decision to update the risk register semi-annually was seen as a compromise between operational efficiency and the need for oversight.
Exclusion of Public for Exempt Business: The committee agreed to exclude the public from discussions regarding specific exempt business, citing the need to protect the financial position of the authority during negotiations. This is a routine decision but underscores the sensitive nature of the discussions that followed.
Interestingly, the meeting highlighted the committee's ongoing struggle with balancing transparency and operational efficiency, especially in managing public assets and development strategies amidst economic uncertainties. The Development Subcommittee convened to discuss various matters concerning asset management and development strategies. Key topics included the approval of key performance indicators and risk registers, and discussions on the asset management plan and development delivery strategy.
Development Delivery Strategy: The committee agreed to recommend the development delivery strategy to the Corporate Policy and Resources Committee. Discussions centered on the need for flexibility in handling council properties and the potential financial implications. Concerns were raised about the clarity of decision-making authority and the impact of public perception on strategic decisions. The strategy aims to optimize financial returns while considering broader community benefits.
Asset Management Plan Review: The updated key performance indicators and risk register for the Asset Management Plan 2024-2028 were approved. There was a significant focus on the frequency of risk register updates, with suggestions to increase the frequency to better manage potential risks. The decision underscores the council's commitment to proactive asset management and risk assessment, aiming to enhance financial and operational oversight.
Exclusion of Public for Exempt Business: The committee decided to exclude the public from discussions regarding specific exempt business, citing the need to protect sensitive financial and business information. This is a standard practice to prevent prejudicing the council's negotiating position and financial interests.
Interestingly, the meeting highlighted the council's cautious approach towards property development in the current economic climate, reflecting broader concerns about market stability and interest rates. The discussions also revealed a keen awareness of the need for transparency and public perception management in council decisions.
Attendees
- Chris Bateson
- Darren Clarke
- Howard Williams
- Joanne Sexton
- Karen Howkins
- Lawrence Nichols
- Malcolm Beecher
- Mary Bing Dong
- Michele Gibson
- Paul Woodward
- Rose Chandler
- Sean Beatty
- Tony Burrell
- Christeen Abee
- Committee iPad
- Coralie Holman
- Daniel Mouawad
- Hilary Gillies
- Jeremy Gidman
- Joanne Clare
- Karen Wyeth
- Lee O'Neil
- Linda Heron
- Paul Taylor
- Richard Mortimer
- Sian Bowen
- Terry Collier
Documents
- Agenda frontsheet Monday 22-Apr-2024 19.00 Development Sub-Committee agenda
- Development Sub-Committee 22 April 2024 - Supplementary Agenda - Item 8 Monday 22-Apr-2024 19.00 agenda
- Delivery Development Strategy DSC April 2024
- Development Delivery Strategy v4
- AMP DSC April 2024
- Appendix 1 Investment Portfolio Risk Register
- Appendix 2 Municipal Portfolio Risk and Performance Register
- Appendix 3 Investment Portfolio KPIs
- Printed minutes Monday 22-Apr-2024 19.00 Development Sub-Committee minutes
- Forward Plan
- Minutes Public Pack 25032024 Development Sub-Committee