Transcript
I'm going to bring the meeting to order. It's now one minute past ten. Sorry for being late.
Okay, good morning everyone. My warm welcome to you all today. My name is Teresa Colbrey and I'll
be during today's meeting of the Education, Youth and Culture overview and scrutiny committee.
Sitting to my left is our Facilitating Officer, Gary Schotten, who's ably supported by her colleagues,
Sharon Thomas and Stephen Goodrum. We're also joined by a number of other officers who
will be presenting us with our hearts during the meeting. May I now remind you that all phones
shall be switched off and background noise, which I find very irritating is get to a minimum.
All microphones should be muted until you're invited to speak by myself and then please return
them to mute. Please indicate that you wish to speak by raising your hand if in the chamber,
or raising the raised hand function if online. I do keep a list of the order of speakers
just to reassure you all. I do notice and you won't be overlooked.
Without further ado, I shall now move to the agenda item number one. Do we have any apologies,
please? Thank you, Chair. We've had apologies from Councillor Christine Jones and Mrs Wendy White
and we have two substitutions. Councillor Richard Jones is substituting for Councillor David Richardson
and Councillor Malbukly is substituting for Councillor Gladys Healy.
Thank you. May I thank those who have substituted today?
Okay, moving on to agenda item two. Do we have any declarations? May I just remind you
that decoration can be made at any point during the meeting if you have forgotten to do so at the start?
Nobody's indicating, Chair. Thank you. Okay, as a Council, we are in favour of disclosure
as much as of as much information as possible about the decisions we take.
However, I ask now for a proposal and a seconder from the Education Youth Overview and Scrutney
Committee to exclude the press and the public for the reasons outlined on page two of your report
and a shown on page 17 of your report. So may I have a proposal, please?
Councillor Wilkreece. Thank you. May I have a seconder, please?
Councillor. I'd be Councillor Jason Shout-cross or Councillor Otis. Do you want to speak?
Councillor Andy Park, this wants to look. Councillor Parker, please.
Yes, thank you, Chair. I wish to challenge the exclusion of the press and public.
Under Section 12A of the Local Government Act, we will stipulate that meetings must be held in
public unless, and I quote, In all the circumstances of the case, the public interest in maintaining
the exemption outweighs the public interest in disclosing the information.
And with a balance between disclosure and withholding the information is seen as equal,
then the information must be released. So the default position is that the meeting has to
be held in public, and it is up to those who wish to restrict access to through their case,
not the other way around. Notwithstanding this, I'd like to look at some of the examples given
in favour of disclosure. One, the public interest in disclosure is particularly strong
where the information in question would assist public understanding of the case.
Two, the issue has generated public debates. Three, property debate cannot take place without
wide availability of all the relevant information. Four, the issue affects a wide range of individuals.
Five, facts and analysis behind major policy decisions. Six, upholding the nolan principles
of openness. Seven, knowing the reasons for decisions. Eight, openness and accountability
for tender processes and prices. Nine, public interest in public bodies obtaining value for money.
Ten, promoting accountability and transparency by public authorities for decisions taken by them.
Eleven, allowing individuals to understand decisions made by public authorities affecting
their lives and assisting individuals in challenging those decisions. And twelve,
information already in the public domain. All of those arguments chair apply in this instance.
The services currently provided affect the lives of pretty much every resident of this county
about which there has been considerable public debate. The services involve millions of pounds
of public money. The options presented in the papers involve substantial risk to the council
with the prospect of the council having to use its scant reserves to fund additional unbudgeted
costs. Some of the assumptions made in the papers need to be challenged. And even when
all this has been debated, we still only got half the story because there is no opportunity
for the other party to present their case to members. If discussions were to stray into
exempted areas, it is within the power of this committee to exclude the press and public from
those particular discussions. So chair, unless a compelling argument can be provided,
which offsets those points which I have made, which arise from the legislation,
we should reject the proposal to exclude the press and public. Thank you.
Thank you, Councillor BARKERS. Your comments have been duly noted. I'm going to call upon the
chief executive to reply. Thank you, Chair, and thank you, Councillor BARKERS. I mean, clearly
in considering whether a meeting should be in part two, the monitoring officer has due
regard to all the points you've made and has concluded that this meeting should be in part two.
The matters that we are going to discuss and the situation and position that we're in
currently is a negotiation, a commercial negotiation with another party.
Those conversations are sensitive and they're confidential, and it's for those reasons that
this meeting is in part two. Thank you. We have actually had a mover and a seconder,
so all those on the education committee in favour of moving to part two, please raise your hands.
Yeah, that's carried. Thank you. At this point, I just feel the need to say
that openness and transparency are indeed the core principles as outlined by Mr Parkhurst
of good governance, and the decision for this to be up to therefore
a confidential matter should not be taken lightly by those of us in this room.
Matters of a commercially sensitive nature will be under discussion and need to remain
confidential until the appropriate time. Thank you.
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