Transcript

Transcript

• Thank you for that break. I am a little disturbed that this council could have ended up having to do without the team. I hope nobody is going to be prepared to defend that behaviour because I think it's totally unacceptable. We're here to work for the people of Whirl, not anything else. Thank you.
• Thank you, Madam Mayor. Thank you for your comment. I just want to put on record for all members including those that are laughing over there as well. That one of my female members was threatened by one of your protestors, a male protester and several of my members have been have been holed at, have been holed at and abused verbally on the way in. We are here as elected representatives and as leaders in our communities, we should not be endorsing or encouraging that kind of behaviour. And you can yawn all your life and laugh all your life but you're encouraging this behaviour.
• Thank you, Madam Mayor. Could I just endorse completely the comments of the Leader of the Council. My members, a number of my members have been verbally abused as they were killing and making all sorts of appalling accusations. I can say I was also there on witness because I challenged the person about it, when he was being particularly aggressive to Paula actually as she was on a way in. So I witnessed that. That isn't a religious and a protest as it's been described by the members of the Green Group apparently. That was sheer aggression and unpleasantness and extremism and we should stand against that at every opportunity and we'll make sure we give the statements to the legal officers to make sure those people get nowhere near this town hall in future.
• Thank you.
• Thank you Councillor Green. Councillor GILKRS.
• Thank you Madam Mayor. There were indeed shouts of members who voted in a particular way last time we discussed the issue of Gaza. Those of us who had expressed sympathy for the Palestinian plight at the time, I took umbrage at being shouted at an asked if I voted for genocide. Since I didn't and I don't believe any members here did whichever way they voted. What I would do is place on record the thanks of members for the work that our officers have put in to try and ensure that the meeting could proceed, that members were safe entering and moving around the building and the action was taken in order to calm the situation and enable us to get on with our lawful democratic business.
• Thank you, Councillor GILKRS. Right Councillor Clary, I've clearly spoken. I want to get on with the agenda please.
• Thank you Mayor and I just want to also endorse what Councillor GILKRS has just said and thank very much the staff who are dealing with a very difficult situation and yes disruptive and unacceptable behaviour and I was pleased to stay in this room at that protest and help officers in their attempts to clear the room and they did it very efficiently, very efficiently, very well they have our full support in what is a very difficult situation and I reject any kind of implication that we are in any way condoning that kind of behaviour. People have a right to protest they need to do as peacefully and respectfully thank you.
• Thank you Councillor Clary. Can we now move on back on to the agenda please? I think we did the declarations of interest before all that hub broke out. Can we move on to item two which is the Civic Mayor's announcement? I have been notified of the following apologists, Thomas Graham Davis, Jenny Johnson, Richie Pitt, Paul Martin and Daisy Cami. Are there any further apologists from anywhere? No, thank you. Item three on the agenda is the minutes. Turn into item three we are asked to approve the minutes of the council meeting held on the 18th of March 2024. I will move approval of these minutes as a correct record with anyone wished a second. - So second, Madam Mayor.
• Thank you, Councillors. I will take this by a cent. Is that agreed? Agreed. - Agreed. Thank you. Alright item four on the agenda is matters requiring approval or consideration by the council. Four A is the adoption of a revised council constitution. This is a referral from the constitution and standards committee meeting held on the 28th of February 2024 and a number of minor amendments proposed by the monitoring officer which former revised constitution which the council asked to adopt for the 2024-2025 municipal year. Can I call on Councillor Tony Cox to move the recommendations detailed on the summons?
• So moved, Madam Mayor. - Thank you, Councillor Coxe. Call on Councillor Gilchrist a second. - So second, Madam Mayor.
• Thank you. Councillor Cox you now have five minutes to speak to your motion.
• I'll be as quick as possible. Madam Mayor, I will choose to go through all of the items on the agenda. Most of them are very minor changes whilst there's eight topics. Members will have had sight of them and I'm sure there have been plays by their spokes from constitution standards. The council's recommended to endorse the proposed amendments to the constitution as detailed in 32-315 and adopt the revisions to the constitution.
• Thank you. - Thank you, Councillor Coxe. I'm aware of an amendment from the Green Group which was circulated in the supplementary agenda papers. It is my intention to hold one debate on the motion on the amendment. With that I call on Councillors Cleary and Bird to move and second their amendment.
• So moved, Mayor. - Seconded.
• Councillor Cleary, you now have three minutes to speak to the amendment.
• Thank you, Mayor. Can I begin by congratulating you on your election as Mayor on behalf of the Green Group. We hope you enjoy every single minute of the year ahead. In proposing this, I will begin by repeating what I said this time last year. This amendment reflects the Green Party's commitment to fairness, respect and mutual cooperation. It is what our residents would want us to do. It is right and it is fair and it should be supported by any right and fair-minded member of this council. But as we can see from the proposals ahead of us this evening, that's not what we're getting. Once again, greens are being deliberately excluded from positions of power and influence. And that's a clear political choice by the leader of the Labor and Conservative groups. A very different choice than the one made by their predecessors. And since last year's stitch up what have we had, we've had the Council plan optimistically titled we're all working together. It says, Our Council's vision is working together to promote fairness and opportunity. It was agreed unanimously. But in practice we see Labor and Conservatives working together to exclude the representatives of people who voted Green. So we hear what you say, but we see what you do. We see the Jeff and Paul show play out in committee after committee sitting shoulder to shoulder at pensions committee to undermine the voices of people outraged that their council tax is funding genocide in Gaza, at the Regent Committee to ensure the promises made to market traders and the people of Birkenhead are washed away at the Environment Committee to oversee the squandering of vast sums of scarce council resources digging up the beaches of world west while the queues at food banks in Eastworld get longer by the day. Which does rather beg the question what's in it for the Labor Group? Why are they so keen to amplify the influence and voices of the Conservatives? Is that what you signed up for when you put yourselves forward for election? Not a question I can answer. But of course different choices are available to all of us. Choices that put fairness into practice. Choices that respect the democratic mandate we all enjoy. This amendment would fully enshrine fairness in our Constitution. Thank you, Mayor. Thank you, Councillor Cairish. Are there any speakers to this motion? Councillor GILKRIS. Thank you, madam. Oneist has been given from we're working together the Council plan which we did all vote for last year. And it does say in the paragraph there to achieve our future vision for world. It is imperative that political leaders, the senior management team and staff at all levels work together as part of a powerful coalition for change. I did look at the description of spokespersons and chairs in the Constitution. And there are talked about spokespersons provide an effective political counterbalance to the role of Committee Chair. It is quite clear that the ways of working, ways that are working, that are more productive than some of the ways that we have had. And it was thanks to Councillor Hackett and other members that we got into this clear mode of working together. I did look at Bristol last week, but I want to refer to what happened in Brighton in 2012 when the Greens took control. So much fairness because they took the chair of the policy resources. They took the chair of adult care. They took the chair of children and young people. They took the chair of economic development and culture. They took the care of environment and sustainability and the housing committee and the transport committee. In fact, it was very little that they didn't take chair of. Now Brighton did descend into certain difficulties after that and again changed their Constitution. And I'm conscious that as in Bristol, there has been an agreement reached after some discussions and some debate in recent weeks. It is clear there that the parties were willing to sit down and talk about how we actually bring about this way of working. Bringing something here now does not fit in with the way we worked on governance. We've had working parties looking at changes to the Constitution. We've spent time meetings going through them in detail and reaching an agreement. By springing this on the Council in the events this week, that is not the way to work this process through, because we need to sit down as parties, work out our differences and find a way of accommodating each other, which does not seem to be possible in the present circumstances. Thank you Councillor Cagle. Councillor TUMMING. Thank you, Mayor. To be clear, this amendment would not unfairly disadvantage any party, not now and not in the future. In fact, it would do precisely the opposite, simply extending the Council's existing principle of proportionality for committee seats, which we presumably all agree is fair, to include the chairs in vice chairs. I've seen over the last year on this Council that whatever might happen in here on our committees we can usually work across party lines and find common ground. We've all witnessed that independent of party affiliations each of us has something valuable to offer. To those planning on voting against this, I ask is your opposition because you fundamentally disagree with the principle of a balanced allocation of committee chairs, or is it because the current system can be leveraged to disproportionately benefit your party and you prefer to continue exploiting this advantage. Either way, this emerging practice of using allocation of committee chairs to tactically exclude one party, it ultimately harms the integrity of our Council. Following the independent assurance panel's final report, the Chair, Caroline Downs, advised us, the Council, that we must continue to invest in the development of members and officers and constructive exploration. She highlighted the maturity of relationships in the wider interest, and credited our Council's improved position to our hard work and inclusivity. Specifically, she noted, our significantly improved cross-party working. Now, I'm sure we all agree that effective cross-party working really is essential. It's been praised in this very room. We all benefit from it, and so too do the residents we represent. Yet, with all this praise for cross-party working, it's surely clear to each of us here and to world residents that the suggested allocation does not reflect any commitment to advancing constructive cross-party relationships, and obviously, this did not happen by chance. One could be forgiven for seeing it as a purely vindictive decision designed to antagonise and frustrate. To provoke the inevitable reaction. So keep this in mind when you sense our frustration. This was avoidable. Now, clearly no party could reasonably endorse the allocation that entirely excludes them, not ours, not any of yours. Nor would any party with integrity simply acquiesce and subsequently give their support to those who orchestrated it. Again, this is simply action and reaction. So yes, we will continue to stand firm and argue against unjust treatment. And just to reiterate, we haven't asked for anything other than a balanced chair. That's what this is. That's what the proposal is. So if we truly valued cross-party working on this council, we would have started this year by fostering a positive spirit of inclusive collaboration and cooperation. Instead of serving pointless division once again, we could have, and perhaps still can, choose a better path. Thank you, Councillor Thomson. The Greens seem to be a bit hypocritical. Councillor Thomson, please. Thank you, Councillor Thomson, thank you, Councillor Thomson. The Greens seem to be a bit hypocritical. You know, Councillor Thomson, Councillor Thomson, you have had to bring that via the correct committee before tonight, but have chosen tonight to do this again. What members of the public that you keep referring to, won't know, is the conversations that we have had, the exchange of emails that we have had, the various multiple changes that you put forward as your proposals that in some way, you know, you've mentioned here tonight about labour and Tories, you forget there's a third party here as well. It's a narrative that you want to spend. You've partied in the negotiations, but it's about what you want, and I think you hit the nail on the hand part when you said it's about power. That's what it is about, it's about power. It's not about working together, it's not about fairness. If it was about fairness, you would listen to people in Little West who voted overwhelmingly in the consultation to have a compromise on the beach, but rather you would rather impose what the Greens want rather than listen to residents in an area that you've never entertained when it comes to campaigning, until a defection from one of the Labour Councillors over to your party, who still hasn't called the by-election to find whether or not the Greens have got the support there, because the Greens don't care about what residents think. They want to impose what they want on residents. Proportionality is provided within the make-up of the committees, so you get your first share of those places. You also get representation at chairs and spokes when your members turn up to those briefens. This is not about compromise, and this is not about fairness. This is exactly about the word that you use. It is about your power and how you see that. We have proportionality. We have tried to work over the past 12 months. We've placed our record that we're prepared to work with these going forward. That's something that is clearly not something that you want to entertain going forward either. We will not be supporting this motion tonight. Thank you, Councillor Stewart. Is there any more speakers to the motion? No? Oh, sorry, yes. Thank you, Mayor. I would like to congratulate you also on your election. I really just want to pick up a couple of points, because I think there has been some misleading of members of the public who may not be aware of some issues. Firstly, in relation to the comments of obviously about the investment in pensions, I would remind Councillor clearly that he was chair of the pensions committee until the past year where he failed to address any of the issues that he then rose for the labour chair to address. So if you want to see the difference between a green chair and a labour chair, just look at that committee. Within half a year Councillor McManus had set up a working party to deal with those issues and a program of work. We had a new committee to establish it and we're already under way to be looking by September at the investment in defence groups. That's the difference between labour and frankly other parties than the green party. If you have a green chair, all they do is wallow, bluster. Other parties, particularly labour, work to deliver what members want and they actually put it into action. We're not just all talk when it suits to get headlines. I also want to talk about proportionality and not damaging the council as the other Councillor Tommenay has raised it. I tell you what is damaging to the integrity of this Council is Councillors who cannot come in safely to this building and go about their business and encouraging an atmosphere where we're in our threatened particularly when they're trying to carry out the democratic business on behalf of the residents in their wards. It's particularly disgusting and is not fit conduct for Councillors on this committee. So to stand up and talk about integrity is rich coming from people who we believe have been involved in that. As for proportionality, there is no way that is proportionality to the business of this Council. When you write motions about proportionality, when you talk about integrity, why don't you start living it. So thank you Councillor Angelith for taking it. That's the last speaker. Can we now move to the seconders? Councillor Bödge, you have three minutes to speak. Thank you. Last month was the Jewish Festival of Passover and we celebrate by asking why and asking why again. So why does the principle of fairness matter? Well, fairness is fundamental. It's what we model for our kids. It's in the Council plan. We're all working together to promote fairness and opportunity for people and communities. A fair share of the ten main committees would be four Labor, three Conservative, two Green and one Liberal Democrat, four, three, two, one. But six, three, non-one, is proposed by the Labor leaders. This is anti-democratic. Secondly, why change the proportional representation of chairs? When it worked well before? Conservative Council have nothing to say about this. Labor are making allegations and so on against the Greens as they usually do. But it's the Greens that actually have reached out to all parties and met with all party leaders and raised these concerns a year ago and we've consistently been ignored by the other parties. Why is that? Is it arrogance? Is it like Councillor Stewart said? It's about power. Is it the money? The Councillors occupy in two chairs and one transport committee place. We'll receive between them £21,000. Why does fairness matter to the people who live on the rural? Because how this Labor Conservative coalition treats the Green Councillors is how they treat people who live on the rural too, imposing their chairs, selling valued community assets like Bromber Library, denying the real living wage to workers in schools, failing children with special needs. And we share the concerns about safety for everybody, including people who live in Gaza, people who you voted against a ceasefire on, people for whom bonds made on the rural, components made on the rural are complicit by bombing them and their safety matters to us too. Part was being chair of the pensions committee and has led the responsible investment policy on that which has led to also the decarbonisation of the pensions portfolio to the value of millions of pounds. It's our pension funds and our council tax that are invested in these pensions, the Mayside Pension Fund Committee, and it's about all that we take into account the safety of people and the deceiving end of those investments too. So lastly, why are Labor and Conservative Councillors voting the same? Well, I'm old enough to remember, just three weeks ago, Natalie Elthick MP elected as a Tory in 2019. She was welcomed into the arms of the Labor Party. Labor have changed for the worst. On Will, if you vote Conservative, you get a Labour, you get a Labour. Thank you, Councillor Burd. If you speak in the public meeting, if you speak in the public meeting, if you speak in the public meeting, it's only if you vote Green that you get Green. And I'll vote to you in Councillors. Councillor Burd, your time is up south. Down please. I'm proud to second this amendment. Thank you. Councillor Gilchrist. Councillor GILDRIS, are you going to second Councillor COPS' motion? As I was talking earlier with Madam Mayor, the issue about is being divided and confusing because there's a difference between the proportions on committees and the issue about proportions of chairs. There is proportions on the committees. If there are plenty of discussions that take place that governance working party over the next few months, we might reach agreement about it in future. But as things stand, to have things parachuted into the meeting the weekend before, is different. A mention was made of requests for this during the past year. Having sat on the governance working party on the Constitution Standards Committee, I cannot recall any occasion where any member of the Green Party came along and said we need to put proportionality of chairs back on the agenda, please. And if somebody says I missed it or forgot it, I will happily give way to them. But there have been since last year, 12 months, there have been since last year several meetings of Constitution Standards, there have been since last year regular meetings, the governance working party to go into the smallest detail of some parts of the Constitution. But we were not approached or asked to sit down and work this through. And in the absence of that, I think it is unfair on the Council to suddenly leap into this and change what has been carefully discussed over several weeks at private meetings within all parties as far as I know. So I think it is unreasonable to pass this tonight. >> Thank you Councillor GRESS. Councillor COX, do you want to have the right to reply? >> Yes please, madam Mayor. >> Thank you very much. First of all, before I get going on that, I would just like to clarify with Councillor Be sounds, the company that she's referring to is actually in a ward. Maybe she would be like to come clean with her own residence that she would like to shut up, tell her that and see her now. There are major space suppliers as well and probably would risk air bust as well. Because I do remember them when I worked at air bust and the amounts of goods that they actually provide to the air space industry and probably that would risk certainly hundreds and thousands of jobs. So I look forward to seeing that in one of the upcoming party political leaflets. Madam Mayor, Councillor Clary makes me laugh with regards to exclusion when there are quite clearly those within his green group who would wish to so division within the Whittle community, purely in the interest of political advantage. Madam Mayor, to amend the Council Constitution without the level of scrutiny that all of the other changes you receive is just plain wrong. The green party are clearly looking to extend the Local Government and Housing Act 1989 with the declarations of proportionality by stamping their feet. It's purely because things have knocked on their way in this instance. They don't like it. This is not the way to go about it. There are other tools at our disposal as Councillor Gilchrist has highlighted and I don't believe this is the way and the path that we should be changing in the Constitution. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor Tuxt. Councillor Bird, you've got a point of order? Yes, I'd like to make a personal statement in the response to Councillor Cox's invitation. Sorry, no personal statements. If you've got a point of order that's fine but not a personal statement, no. Sorry. Do you want to correct something that somebody's got wrong? Yes, OK, you can do that. I don't wish, as Councillor Cox implied, to close down Teludine, which, as he rightly says, has a factory in Bromborough, my ward, I do want them to stop making components for companies that are complicit in ward crimes. Mayor, if I could be allowed to finish what you've asked me to start. Thank you. I'd like Teludine to stop making components. I'd like to stop them making components. All right, Councillor Bird. Thank you. OK, I hope that clarifies the situation. Thank you. Can we go to the vote please? Can I have? Car vote. Car vote? Car vote, Car vote, Car vote. Right, there's a bit of card vote on us. The borough's solicitor today with that, please. Thank you, Madam Mayor. Sorry, the voting in favour of the amendments for the Green amendment proposed this evening to amend the Constitution as set out in the supplementary agenda. I'll start with the named vote. Councillor Ainsworth, four or against? Councillor Boudt, Councillor Boudt, against? Councillor Bannett, against? Councillor Bannett, against? Councillor Stephen Bannett, against? Councillor Burd, four. Councillor Bous, against? Councillor Cameron, against? Councillor Kiribia? Against? Councillor Clary? Four. I call a call. Councillor COCKS. Against? Councillor DAVIS, against? Councillor George DAVIS. Against? Councillor Faukes. Against? Councillor Gardener. Against? Councillor CRIiss. Against? Councillor Gorman. against? Councillor Gray? Against? Councillor Gria, four. Councillor Hall? Against? Councillor Andrew Hoddson? Against? Councillor CASSIDY? Against? Councillor JENKINSEN? Four. Councillor GOBSON? Against? Councillor JONES? Councillor JORDAN? Against? Councillor CALLY? Against? Councillor BRIAN KANNY? Against? Councillor TONGLANG? Against? Councillor LANG? Four. Councillor LEWIS? Against? Councillor LUXEN COOLY? Against? Councillor GRAYEN McManus? Against? Councillor JULLY McManus? Against? Councillor MOLINU? Councillor MOUTHNIE? Against? Councillor KIRN MURPHY? Four. Councillor Tony Murphy? Against? Councillor BUNDY McManus? Upstate. Thank you. Councillor POWELL WILD? Against? Councillor RAYMOND? Against? Councillor Redfern? Against? Councillor RANNY? Against? Councillor Robinson? Against? Councillor SRILLY COOL? Against? Councillor STUITLANG? Against? Councillor CATELAND STUIT? Against? Councillor FOLSTUIT? Against? Councillor SULLIVAN? Against? Councillor TONGLY? Four. Councillor CRIGE WILSHMACK-DONNhold? Four. Councillor JASON WILSHMACK-DONNhold? Four. Councillor Williams? Against? Councillor WILLIAMS, SIN. Against? Councillor WILSON? Against? Councillor WILSON. Against? Councillor BUNDY. Thank you. [end] [end] [end] The amendment is lost. The votes in favour were 14. The votes against 46 and there was one amendment. Therefore, one abstention; therefore the vote was lost. Can we move on now to the original and substantive motion? Can we take the vote for that, please? So, can we have a show of hands, please? Can we have a vote in favour of the substantive motion? Councillor CRIGE WILSHMACK-DONNhold? [indistinct talking] Yes, the votes in favour are 60 votes and one abstention. So, that motion is carried. Thank you. We move on to four B now which is the appointment of committees. Members, we are asked to agree the recommendations as detailed on page 151 of the Council summons. I will move approval of the recommendation. Would any member wish to second? So, second. Councillor Stewart, thank you. I am aware of an amendment from the green group which was circulated in the supplementary agenda papers. It is my intention to hold one debate on the motion and amendment. With that, can I call on Councillors Bird and Cleary to move on second air amendments? I moved. Seconded. Thank you. Councillor Bird, you now have three minutes to speak to the amendment. Thank you. Likewise, this amendment is also about fairness. The fairness is enshrined in our constitution regarding the number of places on each committee is in proportion to the number of Councillors that each party holds and that's fair. We support that as we supported that of being applied to chairs and vice chairs. It's unfortunate that the Liberal Democrat group didn't support that this year where they did vote the opposite way last year. Because of the way the chairs where the places on committees are allocated, it means there's usually a rounding up or a rounding down of a couple of seats. We're just suggesting that one of those seats is allocated to the Greens for Children's Committee rather than a second additional seat allocated to the licensing committee, also known as regulations and general purposes. It's not particularly fair on that committee. It means that Greens are missing out on another committee. Children's Committee frankly does need it. There are additional measures being put in place for children with special needs and additional green voices on that committee would be particularly helpful. Like many Councillors here, I'm sure you also get calls every week from parents and children with special needs who are frustrated as anything because their children's educational needs aren't being met and they're not in good communication with the officers who are paid to do that. So I urge you to support this amendment. It's not very controversial. Thank you very much. Thank you, Councillor Burt. Are there any further speakers? No, Councillor, you have three minutes now as a seconder to the motion. I'm happy to formally second now. Thank you. Councillor Stuart, you now have three minutes to speak. Thank you, Madam Chair. I won't exercise my right of reply. There being no further speakers, I will now move to the vote. So can I have those in favour of the Green amendments? Can I have those against please? [BLANK_AUDIO] Thank you. There are 14 votes in favour. 46 against and one abstention. Therefore the amendment is lost. Can we now move to vote for the original substantive motion and have those in favour please? I'm going to have those against please. Right, those votes in favour are 46 votes against 14 with one abstention. Therefore, the substantive motion is carried. Thank you. Right, can we now move to item Gen 4C which is the appointment of chairs and vice chairs up committee? Now, members, we are asked to appoint a leader of the Council who will also be chair of the policy and resources committee. Does anyone wish to make a recommendation? Councillor DAVIS. Madam Mayor, if I can nominate Paul Stuart please. Thank you. Thank you. Do we have a seconder? So seconded by the madam? Thank you, Councillor Robinson. Are there any further nominations? No. There being no further nominations. Can we agree by a cent? Have a vote? Vote please. Madam Mayor. Sorry, what was that, Councillor graded? Green group is requesting a vote. A vote by a show of hands. Yes. Right. Okay. Can we have a show of hands of those in favour? Councillor interjecting. And a vote for those against, please. Just to see anyone else standing. There are. Sorry, 46 votes in favour, 14 votes against and 1 abstention. Therefore, the motion is carried that Councillor Stuart becomes the lead of the Council. Thank you. I would like to invite Councillor Stuart to make his acceptance. Thank you, Madam Mayor. It's an honour to be elected leader again and I want to thank members for putting trust in me for a second year. We have made good progress as a Council over the past year. Firstly, we've seen the independent panel stand down. They described us as much improved and with a clear vision for the organisation and our borough. We have made significant advantages in developing our Council plan, the priorities which are to deliver high quality efficient universal services to all residents, to prioritise those with greatest needs, to deliver Council services within the means of a Council budget to prepare to innovate and face the future, to play our part in addressing the climate emergency and protecting our environment, to work with community, voluntary and faith organisations and partners to improve all residents' life chances and to deliver an ambitious regeneration programme through an increased investment, jobs, new businesses throughout the borough. This has also been a year where we've seen members working together to help put the Council on a firm financial footing. We have made significant progress on many regeneration projects with many more planned in the years ahead. We have a big year ahead and Madam Mayor, I would just like to echo the comments that you have said in your acceptance speech as Mayor and earlier this evening. We cannot underestimate the work that is still to be done but we have, we will have many challenges but we also have many opportunities. I want to take this opportunity as well to thank Officers for their dedication and hard work. Our job would not be possible without knowledge and expertise of Officers, and I look forward to working together over the coming year with Officers and Members. I wish Committee chairs well in the newest municipal year and particularly those new to the position of Chair of Vice Chair and I offer thanks to all those who have served the chairs and chairs in the last year as well. I look forward to the continued spirit of political groups and members working collaboratively together to do the best for the people of Whivol. Thanks very much. Thank you, Council Chair. Council, we are asked to appoint a Deputy Leader of the Council who will also be Vice Chair of the policy and resources committee. Does anyone wish to make a nomination? I'd like to nominate Councillor G rebelsson. Thank you, Councillor Stewart. Do I have a seconder? Yes, please Madam Mayor. I'd also like to second that. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor Davis. Are there any further nominations? There'd be no further nominations. Can we agree by a sentence? We request a vote on this as well, Mayor. Okay, right. Can we just have a vote then? Those in favour of Council Robinson becoming Deputy Leader of the Council, please? Those in favour? And those against, please. Thank you. The votes in favour are 46, the votes against 14, with onekey presumption. Therefore, the motion is carried that Councillor Jean Robinson is elected Deputy Leader of the Council. All right, can we now move on to 4C on the agenda, which is the election of chairs and vice chairs for all the other Council committees other than those which the Council has decided should be appointed by the committee itself. Members are asked to appoint chairs for all these Council committees and a list of proposed chairs and vice chairs, what circulated to members in the supplementary agenda. Can I now call on Councillor Stewart to recommend the move the recommendation circulated? So moved, Madam Mayor. And can I call on Councillor Robinson to second? So seconded, Madam Mayor. Councillor Stewart, you have five minutes to speak to your motion. I am aware that a number of amendments from the Green Group which have circulated earlier today. It is my intention to hold one debate on the motion of the amendments, but before that happens, the borough solicitor would like to make a statement. Thank you, Madam Mayor. And just before we deal with the Councillor Stewart's speech, just to mention that the amendments that have been brought forward by the Green Group, they have sought advice from myself and my team in relation to the advancements of these promotions this evening, and they are permissible within the Constitution. So I just thought we'd make that clear for all members of the Council. Thank you. Councillor Stewart. No. With that, I'll call on Councillors on Women's e, Greer, Jenkinson, Walsh, Graham, Gorman, Murphy and Cook to move on to second their amendments. Moved. In turn, please. Moved, Madam. Sorry, moved, Madam Mayor. Moved, Madam Mayor. Seconded. Moved. Madam Mayor. Seconded. Moved. Seconded, Madam Mayor. Yes, I would prefer that you've stood up to propose your motion and second it please. It's just common courtesy, thank you. Right. Councillor Amamonee, Jenkinson, Graham and Murphy, in turn, you now have three minutes each to speak to the amendments. Welcome to all new Councillors. Congratulations to all newly appointed Committee chairs and Vice Chairs and to Madam Mayor. If winner of our Council truly upheld democracy in politics, the Green Party would be entitled to two chairs on Committee. Green Party councillors who alongside all other councillors in this chamber have been fairly and democratically elected to represent and voice the opinions of the residents of Whirlpool, who voted Green Party over Labor and Conservatives and the Lib Dems. However, Green Party councillors have for the second year running been denied the offer of either chairs or vice chairs on any of the ten committees under the current leadership. Twenty possible places and Green Party councillors have been overlooked and undervalued for each and every committee, but wait. Council has surpassed itself as only four of the ten appointed chairs and two of the ten appointed vice chairs have been allocated to women. It's hard to believe that it wasn't possible to find another four capable women for those positions amongst your ranks. Let's see what happens at constitutional standards. It's 2024 and apparently sexism is alive and kicking in the Council chambers. In any case, I put myself forward as Chair of Children's Committee. I feel I'm qualified to hold role as chair due to my extensive child-centered experience as a nurse, a midwife, a health visitor. I've lectured in health and social care. I manage the department of child care and education at Stockport College. I've worked as an off-stud inspector and I also worked as the quality assurance manager at Liverpool Community College when it was awarded a Grade 1 by off-stud. I currently work as a psychotherapist. I've put myself forward with absolutely no prospect of me being chosen because I'm a Green Party councillor. I've highlighted how undemocratic and sexist this council is becoming under its present leadership. Exclusion in the workplace is a form of bullying. It's neither acceptable nor accepted. I would hope that the women Councillors who, last year, may have thought that excluding Green Councillors was a bit of sport, can reflect on how that same undemocratic exclusion is now being applied to themselves. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor Reneally. Councillor Jenkinson, please. Thank you, Madam Mayor and I apologise for not standing previously. It was an oversight on my part. No disrespect was intended. As a group, the Greens have proposed these four motions in the spirit of fairness and democracy, representing the policies on which we were elected. The named Councillors across all of the motions have life and/or professional experience in the committees nominated and this is an important point. We should be using the talents that we have in the areas where they are most useful. So what could I bring to chair of order and risk management? Obviously, I believe in social justice. There are vulnerable people, people who need our support across all of the world, and we must keep that support available, and one of my particular concerns will be ensuring that equality impact assessments are both fair and thorough because I have previous had occasion to doubt them. As a previous member of the Environment Committee and having worked on Green New Deal committees, I am in a strong position to look across the board at reaching our climate challenges. As an individual, I have life experience of many of the issues facing both children and adults, and as a professional, I have over 20 years in IT. I have managed international projects for the UK and Europe's largest financial institution, which is also one of the biggest in the world. I am responsible for two areas of UK IT compliance and one internationally. I am used to picking out the detail, assessing wide-ranging impacts and drawing together disparate strategies into a single, effort and cost reducing one. And I am able to bring my specific practical and academic knowledge of systems to bear in a much neglected area. If the Horizon tragedy shows us anything, it is that there is a lack of relevant IT understanding and public positions. If we are to learn the lessons of that project as agreed in March for Council, I am the debacle that resulted in 37 billion pounds spent on a test and trace system that did not work at all. You may consider that someone with a thorough understanding of the technical issues, as well as an understanding of the failure and accountability, would be an asset in the chair of this committee. So this motion, along with the other three proposals for chairs and vice chairs, has been put forward in good faith. Our nominations are proposing people who have the skill sets to fulfill the roles to a high standard to the benefit of the Council's reputation and the people of Whirl. And in this spirit, I am proposing myself as chair of the Audit and Risk Management Committee. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor Jenkinson. Councillor Graham. Thank you, Madam Mayor. I would like to put myself forward for Vice Chair of Environment, Climate, Emergency and Transport Committee because of my experience, my collaborative approach, and to fairly represent the wishes of the Whirl, residents. My experience in the environmental sector spans over a decade, focusing on pragmatic solutions to our environmental challenges, and in particular solutions that also bring other benefits to Whirl residents. I've been a member of the Active Travel Forum and its predecessor since 2014. I contributed to Call 2, Whirl's climate emergency strategy, which this Council adopted in 2019. I'm a member of the Core Whirl partnership, initially representing community groups, and latterly also as a Councillor. I've held various roles in a range of organisations, including as a management consultant for large financial institutions, program manager for businesses, a member of the senior leadership team for National Charity, project management in local governments and working in public private joint ventures. A collaborative approach to problem solving is key to delivery, as is an understanding of the importance of engaging diverse stakeholders in discussions and decision-making processes. By working together, we can find solutions that meet the needs of all our residents. I've led multi-organizational and cross sector teams, often with diverse opinions, enabling them to work together to deliver solutions. The problems of poor environment and climate change for hardest on our most venerable residents, whether it be access to green space, poor air quality, dangerous roads, excessive heat, worsening health conditions, flash flooding, or waste and recycling management. Yet solutions to the environmental problems also deliver a huge benefit to those most vulnerable citizens. The health and wellbeing benefits we get from green spaces, public transport available for all, cleaner, safer streets and pavements, reduced waste, warm homes, financial savings, green jobs, healthier workforce and an improved local economy. World Green Party believes in fairer greener communities that make life better for everyone. Effective representation is key to serving the community's best interests. Greens should be fairly represented in the chairs and the vice chairs of our committee and as such, I'd like to be considered as vice chair of the Environment, Climate, Emergency and Transport Committee. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor Graham. Councillor MURPHY, please. Given that the results of this vote has been decided and published before a single vote has been cast, I'd like to congratulate Councillor STEVE and Benet on his election as vice chair of Leis Cenke etc. To his credit, I've actually worked with him on a couple of of passenger panels. I've learned a lot from you. Thank you. But however, given the forthcoming general election, I'm a bit surprised that the two larger parties I'll try to put a better distance between themselves. Frontly, decisions concocted in back room deals do not serve democracy well. That said, if I was elected to the vice chair of licensing, I will attempt to involve licensed holders more in decisions made of outside licenses. As has been said, we in the Green Party believe in a collaborative and cooperative approach. I'd also like to bring ideas about dealing with security in terms of the speciality of the night time environment and make sure that that's properly regulated. I will also bring proposals for publishing the work of the committees and outline why decision to be made. To finish off, I will graduate Councillor BERNIS once again on his election, as vice chair of licensing. Thank you, Councillor MURPHY. Are there any speakers to this amendment? Councillor GIL. Yeah, I just checked, Madam Mayor. I want to comment on what's been moved. Am I in the right place to do that? We've got speakers now if you want to speak now for three minutes. Mr Mayor, when we set our budget, it was passed by all parties, and there weren't any objections, and we thought that this was part of getting wool on the road for a better place. The proceedings this evening have not helped confirm that impression. The latest proposed suggestions on places came from the Green Group when it came out this afternoon, and that meant that last minute changes appeared, and they are not the way in a reasonably governed authority, not the way to show that this Council is working cooperatively. I have listened to the requests from members about chairs and vice chairs, and I acknowledge the experience that has been presented by members to us. The issue though is that the Government guidance that came out in April is clear that we should all consider the experience, expertise, and ability to work as a group and as Councillors together. It came out as a Government document on the 22nd of April. It was about scrutiny. I'm sure people will read it. We only had the weekend to look at the suggestions being put for via the leader, but we also only had the suggestions circulated today, and that is not the best way to run the Council. We will, in time, need to have the succession strategy. I have to say there are old lags like me. We have been there 40 odd years, but there are many other members who are much younger who have got experience and want to bring it before our committee system. Our members will want to use that. But to bring things on the Council at this less stage, this stage is not a way to secure that agreement amongst members who may be quite prepared to look at the skills others have and see how they can work constructively and collectively on all the committees. Thank you, Madame Mayor. >> Thank you, Councillor GILcrest. Can we move to the seconders of the amendments? That's our Councillors, Councillors Greer, Walsch Gorman and Cook intern, so Councillor Greer first. >> Thank you. I'd like to second, Councillor Wong-Wemner as Chair of Children's Young People and Education Committee, and I really don't understand the comments that this sort of change would take hours of constitutional work and deliberation. A year six class could deal with it. It's just basic percentages, as well as being about common fairness and democracy, both of which are taught in school. And it's also not the surprise amendment that Councillor GILcrest has said. The Green Group leaders have been attempting to discuss this with other group leaders for weeks. So with that in mind, I'm seconding Councillor Wong-Wemner because of her skills, experience and personal qualities. She's excellent at detail, listening to people and working collaboratively. I won't repeat her professional experience, I have it here, but she's told you that herself. So I won't repeat that. I'll just end by assuring you that Councillor Wong-Wemner would put our children and young people first, would listen to them and would work tirelessly to improve their opportunities and outcomes. >> Councillor GRIER. Madam Mayor, I wonder if you can't take a point of order. Councillor GRIER says the proposals have been circulated for weeks. The understanding that there was a desire for poor portionality was mentioned. We did not get names of members to even consider till this afternoon. That is not the way that we expect business to be done. >> Councillor interjecting. Councillor WOLsch, please. >> Thank you, Mayor. We've been discussing this for weeks with group leaders. It's just another exclusionary tactic to exclude the Greens. I don't know why I said last year it felt spiteful and spineless. I still stand by that. Gail Jenkinson would make a fabulous chair of the Order and Risk Committee, given her experience. And with the upcoming election, it's quite clear to see from this Council that if you vote red, you will get blue. Thank you, Councillor WOLsch. >> Councillor Gorman, please. So first of all, on the point of this being last minute, we didn't receive the names of the Chair's, Stryke Vice Chair's, until yesterday. So, you know, that's happening to everyone. And obviously, you know, we are allowed to submit things last minute. And I think this is very clear to understand it is only a few sentences. I mean, we seem to be getting the impression that if somehow we become a bit more submissive, playable, then somehow at some point will be given chairs in the future. But it does seem clear that that approach is just to distract from the decision that they would have made anyway. The main example of our uncooperativeness is the fact that we're not willing to grin and bear it when they tell us we are not going to get our fair share of committees. So we're not willing to, and I think it would harm democracy if we had to become Labor's Lactox. I'm not accusing any party of being Labor's Lactox. In exchange for being chairs, the whole point is, as Councilors, we should be able to speak out and group think as we saw during the last, you know, Labor majority administration doesn't help anyone. As a former vice chair of each set, back in a more collegiate era, I'm delighted to be able to second Councilor Grayne's appointment to the same position. I'd like to think we can all agree she has proven a very capable member of the committee. She is passionate about the environment and knows her brief back to front. For the sake of being brief, not wanting to repeat what all my colleges have said, I will leave my speech there. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor Gorman. Councillor Burch, thanks so much. These proposals are really well known. Councillor Burch, just a moment. It's Councillor Cook has got to speak next. Okay, I just would like to take part in the debate. Councillor Cook. And I'm just like, excuse me, there's just one chair and I'm talking to her. I'd like to speak in the debate and I'm concerned if Councillor Cook closes as a seconder, that would be end of the debate. I know how many of you have to council to go across specific, so you've come to the seconder as that moment's passed. Sorry, can we let Councillor Cook do the second in first date? Then we'll move to other speakers, okay. Thank you, Madam Mayor, for telling me I have to speak. I didn't know its compulsory as the seconder. I will very briefly though. I don't wish to—I don't just—to hold the meeting too long. We've had quite a few speeches. What I want to do is to recommend Councillor Kiernan Murphy, as our—that will be appointed as Vice Chair of the licensing regulator, General and Girls Trust Committee. He has made a considerable effort over last year to attend meetings—you know, great and convenient to himself—at the Solar Campus, for example, which is an easy for any of us to get to, by both transport. It would be nice to see to see some of the other than a Conservative or at Labour member Chair of the Vice Chair of that committee. I don't think I've seen it so far, but it would make a change. Thank you. Thank you. Sorry, Councillor Burd, we've already had the discussion for this. Now, we're moving to the motion being seconded by Councillor Robinson. You literally just said, after Councillor COOK, there'll be other Councillors to speak and I want to speak as part of the debate. Sorry, please can you listen to the ruling from the first election? Thank you, Madam Mayor. Just for clarity, my understanding is that we had all the movers of the motion. Councillor ALLAN are being Minister of the motion, so Councillor OWEN. Councillor as the proposals of the motion. We then had debate and Councillor GIL Chris stood up and spoke. We didn't see any further indications of people wishing to speak. So, the seconders were then requested to participate. So, we've just gone through all of the seconders. So, the moment for debate has passed and we've just gone through to the seconders. So, the seconders is now Councillor Robinson on the substantive motion. And I literally was invited to speak by the Mayor and was told that I could do so at the Mayor's discretion. If the Mayor's choosing to exercise different discussions, you could maybe. I misunderstood what you were trying to do, Councillor Baddish. I thought you had a point of order. Clearly, that moment has passed. So, can we go to Councillor Robinson? Councillor interjecting. All right, thank you, Madam Mayor. Councillor Stewart, you now have a right of reply for up to three minutes. Thank you, Madam Mayor. I'm going to reply to set the record straight, that we haven't been in discussion and Councillor GIL Chris has made this clear, and there's point of order for a few weeks. It's not correct. It's just over a week. And we entertained as the Labor leadership the Greens twice in exchange of multiple emails. And they wanted to propose something that they then withdrew when it came to the second meeting, because they clearly didn't want to put on the table what it was that they had discussed with the Deputy Leader of the Council prior to meeting the second time. So, to try to indicate that somehow they haven't been included in these discussions is just a downright lie, because they have. And there is email trails that at one point included all leaders and then took some leaders out of those email trails to try and get some deal that they wanted done. What they didn't do was tell us what chairs, all vase chairs that they wanted. They wanted to agree with what their principal fairness is. But part of their proposals, Madam Mayor, of their proposals for fairness was to reduce representation on committees for elected members, including removing two seats for the Lib Dems. That would have meant that the Lib Dems would have had no voice on two committees from their proposals. So that's what they mean by fair. And I bring it back to what Pat said earlier, which is this is about power. It's not about fairness. And it's their interpretation of fairness, not a real interpretation of fairness. Thank you, Madam Mayor. Thank you Councillor Stewart. We're now going to move to the vote on the Green Amendments. Oh, we're going to take these. Are we taking these individually? Sorry Madam Mayor. Sorry, can you ask that question again, sorry? Madam Mayor, can I propose that we've heard the speeches that we vote on the various amendments, the full list of amendments, as as one. So we have a single vote on all the on the amendments and then we can make a determination. Can I have somebody second that proposal? Yes, Madam Mayor, I second that. Just please check that everybody's in agreement with that way of moving forward. There was in favour, please. No, no, she's on the thing. I've been making a little proposal. Just put your hands down a minute. Councillor Bird is on her feet. So it's in the standing orders that amendments are voted on one at a time and we'd like that to happen, please. Thank you.
• Can you have me second? Madam Chair, I understand that we're asking the room this today if we wish to deal with the amendments individually or if we wish to deal with those on block, I understand that a motion has come forward from Councillor Green to ask for that to be on block and I think that's been seconded by Councillor Stewart and so I think in these circumstances we're looking to take the will of the room and if you wish to vote on that to determine how you wish to proceed, then we can do that. If it helps, Madam Mayor, I'm prepared to add that the relevant standing order is set aside for wording for the, in this particular, on this particular occasion, so that the will of the room can be set aside?
• Right. Do we have a seconder for that proposal that the standing order that relates to it is set aside?
• If it's appropriate Madam Mayor, I'm happy to second that and I'm but happy to take advice on the Director of Law.
• Madam Mayor, I'm concerned and we don't think it's necessary to stand aside the standing order and we think it's appropriate and helpful for the chamber to vote on the process to determine how it wishes to deal with this vote on these amendments. So the proposal is for those to go on block or for those to be dealt with individually. So those in favour, Madam Mayor, would be the next step to determine if they wish to do that on block so it'd be a four and against.
• I just don't have anything. Have you got a point of order, Councillor Burd?
• Yes, I do. The Constitution is agreed. We all just agreed amendments to the Constitution, so it's not in the gift of this meeting to express its will or whatever, to ignore the Constitution. We can't just dispense with standing orders, just because they're inconvenient. They're here to provide the rules of debate and they should be compliant with whether or not people want to agree the rules of debate or not. We've already pre-agreed them and they should be followed and that is that amendments under discussion should be disposed of before the next amendment. Is that with? So the vote happens one amendment at a time. Thank you.
• Thank you. We'll defer to what the Borough Salicit has got to say. [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO]
• Madam Mayor, we're relying on paragraph 15.15 of the Constitution. Sorry, I just need a little moment to find it where we have the joint debate, which is the rules that we've been accepting and conducting this Council since July last year. So we are relying on 15.15 where all of the amendments are put on the table at the same time. If we chamber feels that it would be helpful and more appropriate to waive the standing order to make that clear, we can do it. I don't believe it's necessary, but if that's the will of the chamber, we will go along accordingly. All right. We'll take a vote and see if people are in favour of taking these votes on block. So those in favour to start with. Okay. And those against. I think that's. [INAUDIBLE] [INAUDIBLE] Okay. votes in favour are 45 votes against 15 and one abstention. Therefore that motion is carried that we vote on block for those amendments. So can we now vote, please, on the Green Amendments is what we're voting now. So those in favour of the Green Amendments all four together. Can you put your hands up please? And those voting against the Green Amendments please. That vote is 14 in favour, 46 against with one abstention. Can we now go on to vote for the, that motion is lost. Can we now go on to vote for the original substantive motion, please. Those in favour? And those against. The vote is in favour, 46 votes against 14 abstentions. Therefore, that motion is carried. Thank you. Can we now move on to 4D, which is the appointment and nomination to other bodies and organisations. Members are asked to appoint or nominate as the case may be, members, officers or others as appropriate to represent the Council on various outside organisations. I now call on Councillors Stewart to move the recommendation. Second, please. Councillor Stewart, you now have five minutes to speak to the motion. I am aware of an amendment from the Green Group which was circulated in the supplementary agenda papers. It is my intention to hold one debate on the motion and amendment. With that, I call on Councillors Lam and Mullenewe to move and second their amendment please. Yes, moved. Madam Mayor, thanks. Sorry, where I Councillor didn't see you stand up where I, all day are, OK, thank you. Councillor Lam, you now have three minutes to speak to the amendment. Thanks, Madam Mayor. This amendment is yet another polite attempt to encourage my fellow members to enable democratic fairness and proportionality. Relatively simple maths shows that Labor taking three out of four seats available to world members of the Liverpool City Region Transport Committee didn't add up last year. Can we see change this year? Almost, but admittedly not quite a quarter of world council members agree and we think it is fair that a seat is given to one of our members. Our amendment is very simple and seeks to enable that. We think that it is an amendment that could prove useful to all groups in the years ahead. That's all. Thank you, Madam Mayor. Thank you, Councillor Lam. Are there any speakers to this motion? Councillor BOURKE, first, please. Thanks very much. Again, as Councillor Lam said, this is again about proportional representation and fairness and it seems that only the Greens are in favour of proportional representation in principle and in practice. Our proposals have been well-known for a long time if you've been listening. The facts are that even under first past the post, the Greens are winning. There are now 14 Green Councillors, a fifth of this council and recently Greens won over 800 seats across the country. Feedback shows that more Green MPs will be elected at the next general election in six weeks' time. In Birkenhead, more people voted Green than Labor in the last local elections, 24,000 people. It looks like Labor and Conservatives are rightly scared that even more voters are moving to the Green Party because time after time, we see where will Labor and Conservative councils consistently voting together. Labor are the largest single group here and could work together with any of the other three parties, but their partner of choice is the Conservative Party. Only the Greens are elected for and consistently promote a fairer greener will. We are voted in to defend the Green Belt and Green spaces, not to break promise after promise. It's only if you vote Green, you get Green. Our 14 Green Councillors have all spoken this evening. We consistently stand up for fair or greener will, and I'm very proud to support this motion and amendment. Thank you. Councillor GIL, can I say thank you. Thank you, Madam Mayor. I suspect it's about 30 odd years since I actually served on what was Mercy Travel when I fought for Eastern Rake Station. But in those days and still, the proportions on Mercy Travel and the Transport Committee are looked upon across the whole of Mercy side. When I looked at the chart on the City Region website, I saw, of course, a substantial number of Labor members. But I also did see Green members from other authorities. In terms of proportions on Mercy Travelers such, the Green Party is represented by other Councillors from other areas. I suppose on reflection, after all the debate we had this evening and about where we're going the next few years, which may be resolved in the next few weeks if the election is called, it's a matter of regret that the underlying tensions we've seen tonight will not be resolved until a general election is out of the way. And so that the uncertainty that we face over the funding of our services can be resolved. And no doubt that the City Region Mayor will play a major part in arguing with any future government, the need to resources for transport on Mercy side that we would like to see and the progress with the buses. But in terms of where we are with proportions, they may have to fit in with what is seen as a Mercy side wide system. And changing it here may not work to the extent that the Greens seek at this night. Thank you, Councillor GIL. Sorry, Madam Mayor, did you say— Councillor COCK. Yes. Thank you, madam. Okay, thank you, Madam Mayor. By way of introduction to my short speech supporting the Green Party amendment to the motion on appointments to outside bodies, I'd like to reiterate our position on the inflated allowances lavished on members of the LCR transport committee. Starting at nearly £6,000 a year for attending just five annual meetings, yes, that's £1,200 per meeting, blasting just two to three hours, including briefings, which many appointees fail to attend. And that's where none of this counter and the passive objective to the Council spending £500 a day and outside consultants. Most of this money across the whole civil situation shows that, at least £100,000 of it, in my view, should be subsidising bus routes deemed unprofitable by the privately run bus companies. We learnt recently that extending a route in the Perkinhart area, for example, would cost just a few thousand pounds annually. Reducing to a sensible level the allowances of the 24 members of the committee with its extremely limited role could support, extend, or introduce several much needed bus routes across the region. Until we were unfairly cut out of the committee last year, the Greens were hoping to appoint a member who frequently uses public transport. It's important that as far as possible, the 24 members of the transport committee, four from each authority, are representative of a cross-section of groups and society who most use and depend on public transport. For example, the elderly, parents with young children, people with disabilities, and those who have gone out to afford a private car or choose not to drive for environmental or other reasons. I suspect many of the mainly middle-aged Councillors currently on the transport committee hadn't seen the inside of a bus for years. I shouldn't have to make a speech, I shouldn't have to make a speech in order to claim one place for the Greens on the LCR transport committee. Madam Mayor, Madam Mayor, I thought we would discourage agedist comments. Councillor COOK said that he'd been a big... Councillor COOK, if you could find your comments to what the topic is, please. Councillors, okay. Our Green Group should get one seat out of the floor. This point has been made before. It's very hard to argue about this, actually. Like last year, Labor thing, they should have three places out of four with even fewer Councillors. That's 75% of the seats, with just 44% or 29 out of 66 Councillors. This is plain, but mathematics, unrepresentative, and anti-democratic to conclude our previous Morning Chair Prime Minister told members of the Constitution Standards Working Groups and in other forums that the political proportionality principle was assumed to apply right across the local city region, so I'm not sure why it doesn't apply to the transport committee. Thank you. Councillor C but... Thank you, Madam Mayor. Just to be honest, to the amendment. I mean, I don't... Councillor COOK. Perhaps just to change, we can adjust ourselves to the amendment. I also carefully considered words of the mover of the amendment who adjust the point precisely. Now, there's been some disagreements in this chain, but clearly tonight, but the one thing I think we all agreed on was that the makeup of all the committees across the board, the bottom line, needs to be proportional to the party's strength on this Council. I mean, it's not about disagreeing with it, it's the law. It's actually, we've got to do it. I mean, potentially, if we didn't have to do it, they got those, what we would be talking about tonight. But it's the law we've got to do it. I think a point was varied in between attacking people who don't use buses or don't use them as regularly as the degree group would deem acceptable. And was the point that the Liverpool city region exclusively board has to be, again, by law, proportional across the city region. The transport committee however does not. The firmness... We've heard that word a lot, I don't know... Fairness would suggest that the Liverpool, that the transport committee, given that it's a regional committee, ought actually to be proportional across the Councils. And I'm afraid I better out myself as the geek with spreadsheets. The director law knows this already. I've had a look following the elections in Sefton and other places across the city region to see what the makeup is of all the Councillors elected as a percentage and how that then translates into the transport committee. And I can tell members in figures, building on what Kelsey Wilckerus has said, that the degree group I entitled, the degree employee of customer services in the region, are entitled to eight and a half per cent of the seats on the transport committee. That's two. That's two. Madame Mayor, I can tell members that they have two members appointed to that committee, one from those and one from St. Helens. Interestingly, Madame Mayor, if the degree group wants you to come to this Council to make an arguments for proportionality on the transport committee, it's not a place to the degree group itself. Because the group that is underrepresented on that committee across the city region is the consumers. If you report in a moment choice that said, really, this should be two labor and two conceptives, that way we would get proportionality on that committee and it would be fair, then you would be asking the conservatives to replace one of the labor members. Now, wouldn't that have been more interested? Whether all our questions will be solved if the general action is called. I have to say to Councilor Gautrich that general action is on the, it is on the, it is on the, it is on the source of G-Ride. Thank you. I like the American of Olds. We look forward to our liberty from the show. Thank you, Councilor Kelly, Councilor Cleary, please. In thank you, Mayor, and yeah, for all that, I suppose. But I did note that Councilor Kelly was allowed to speak for considerably longer after the red light went on, which was not, was not, was not, well, you can scoff, you can scoff, best, but yeah. I want to make a few points based on what has been said previously. Firstly, in relation to what Councillors Gilchrist and Kelly have just said, we've got, Councillor Kelly has pointed out is that the appointment of members across the region for various committees is all over the place, and it needs codifying to be fair, reasonable and democratic, which it currently is not. Last year, when we brought forward our amendment on a fair allocation of committee places through the Constitution, the Liberal Democrats voted for us, all voted for us. This year, the vote against. Yeah, this year, the vote against totally changed the mind, but one way last year, different way this year, flip-flop, flip-flop. So the point is, they completely changed the mind, haven't they, on the same issue on the committee, on the committee places, we were being criticized for being forward a last minute amendment on a proposal that was issued last night. How can you amend something until it's been actually proposed? So it very much seems the Lib Dems are trying to concoct reasons to vote with Labor and the Conservatives and in ways that they did not do in the past. Councillors, can you please let Councillor Currie help his say thank you, Mayor. Thank you for your indulgence, I do appreciate it. I am today 10 years a member of this authority. It's 10 years ago today that I was elected and I have been used over those 10 years to the disrespect that particularly the Labor and Conservative groups, and we see it in spades tonight, demonstrate towards Green Councillors. Our mandate is just as good as yours. We deserve the same respect as every other member and I am. Yeah, and we earn it. Look at us, look at all of us. Look at the votes we're getting. What I get, Mayor, what I get, Mayor, is constant interruption and I hope over the course of this year, over the course of this year, that will be suitably addressed but I am used to the Labor Party soaking about the presence of Green members in this Chamber. Well, please keep it up because we are thriving. Thank you. Councillor MATaughter, please. Thank you, Madam Mayor. And Councillor Cleary, you talk about democracy and flip-flops. Well, one of your own with West flip-flops every day and has no idea what democracy means. Councillor Baird, I think you have a selective memory, the Greens did not win 14 seats and so I am going to correct you. One of your members stood and forced on the Labor tickets and within six months had defected to your numbers. People in Greens be frank, be an Herbie when I am knocking on doors, are asking me why the Greens stole their vote and like me and I feel the same, why did you steal my vote. So perhaps on the 4th of July, that is an opportunity that that particular Councillor may call a by-election under her new Green banner and see how well she does them. Thank you, I don't want to thank Councillor for much longer but I was going to follow on very much from what Councillor Cally said. Because I was also going to make that point exactly. The Greens want to talk about proportionality and fairness but it is about fairness across the whole of Merseyside because ultimately the elections that affect Merseyside Transport Committee won't just elections here in whirl. They are elections from across the whole of Merseyside. So really the Greens are saying they would like to win more seats across the whole of Merseyside. Well, go out there, win those votes and work hard to get those seats if you want them. That is entirely up to the voters at Merseyside. You don't get to use the votes of whirl to try and claim extra representation on the whole of Merseyside, do you? That is highly fair. Actually the point about sitting on buses, I actually use buses quite a lot as well as the trains. So, I actually do know what it is to sit in the bus. Yes, I have used the bus and I have every faith in the current members of the Transport Committee to continue to do their work in order to ensure that we bring our buses back under public control. I look forward to the election of the Labour Government at the end of this general election campaign where we can bring public transport on the trains back under public control too and get the investment we desperately need in this region. So, I hope everyone votes Labour on the 4th of July. Thank you very much. Thank you, Councillor Lange. That is the less speaker. So, go to Councillor Muralen, you have three minutes now to second this amendment. Thank you, Mayor. As Greens, we recognise that good, effective public transport is necessary if we also have a sustainment in society. So, it seems only fair that the Greens should be well represented on the LCR Transport Committee. We feel that whirl is uniquely placed because we're saffooned from the rest of the region by the river. So, maybe we're all should have a bigger stay on the Transport Committee. Can you please let Councillor Muralen continue what she's got to say? Thank you, Mayor. What is disproportionate on the LCR Transport Committee is the representation of women. Male members outnumbered, female members, by 20 to 6 in the last municipal year. Women are in a very vulnerable group and if they have to use public transport, I'm often bossing marijuana waste or not even at all. We're very vulnerable, wasting in isolated places. Now, I understand that because I use public transport, I don't drive at all. I use trains, ambulances and often I'm less stranded in the middle of the lane so I'll leap it nice with no boss. This is really scary. So, I think it's only fair and democratic that more women should be represented on the Transport Committee and I would like to put myself forward for that. Thank you. I'd echo the motion. Thank you, Councillor Malayno. Councillor Robinson, you now have three minutes to speak. Okay, I'm the right to thank you, Madam Mayor. Councillor Stewart, you now have the right to reply for up to three minutes please. Thank you, Madam Mayor. I will keep my replies short and sweet. That this tonight has gone off from what should have been transport to a party political book cast by the Greens, which you can always count on the Greens to do any given opportunity, especially Councillor Baird. But along that vein, I'll take part in that tonight. I think it's absolutely ludicrous to think that the Greens are going to get a general election win across Will and Merseyside. And with that, when the general election has been called so when people go out of votes, I do hope that they vote Labor because things can only get better. Thank you, Councillor Stewart. We will now move to the vote please. On the Green Amendment, can I have those in favour please? And those against… There are 14 votes in favour, 46 against with one abstention, so the amendments are lost. Can we now move to the original and substantive motion please. Those in favour? And those against? That looks to me like that was unanimous vote. Yes. Anybody against? Anybody? Just got one abstention. 60 votes in favour and one abstention. And that now completes our business for this evening. Thank you and good night.