Transcript

Good morning Committee. Welcome to the Development Management Subcommittee. This meeting is being held in the Dean of Guild Courtroom in the City Chambers on the High Street in Edinburgh and remotely by Microsoft Teams. It will be live and subsequent broadcast via the Council's website. The Council is a data controller under the General Data Protection Regulation, Data Protection Act, 2018. We broadcast Council meetings to fulfill our public task obligation to enable members of the public to observe these meetings as they're being conducted. The Committee will now proceed to the next meeting. Good morning Committee. Welcome to the Development Management Subcommittee. This meeting is being held in the Dean of Guild Courtroom in the City Chambers on the High Street in Edinburgh and remotely by Microsoft Teams. It will be live and subsequent broadcast via the Council's website. The Council is a data controller under the General Data Protection Regulation, Data Protection Act, 2018. We broadcast Council meetings to fulfill our public task obligation to enable members of the public to observe the democratic process. The Committee will now proceed to the next meeting. Welcome to the Development Management Subcommittee. This meeting is being held in the Dean of Guild Courtroom in the City Chambers on the High Street in Edinburgh and remotely by Microsoft Teams. It will be live and subsequent broadcast via the Council's website. The Council is a data controller under the General Data Protection Regulation, Data Protection Act, 2018. We broadcast Council meetings to fulfill our public task obligation to enable members of the public to observe the democratic process. The Development Management Subcommittee will now proceed to the next meeting. The Council is a data controller under the General Data Protection Regulation, Data Protection Act, 2018. We broadcast Council meetings to fulfill our public task obligation to enable members of the public to observe the democratic process. Data collected during this Webcast will be retained in accordance with the Council's* Street in Edinburgh and remotely by Microsoft Teams. It will be filmed live and subsequent broadcast via the Council's website. The Council is a data controller under the General Data Protection Regulation and Data Protection Act 2018. We broadcast Council meetings to fulfil our public task obligation to enable members of the public to observe the democratic process. Data collected during this webcast will be retained in accordance with the Council's published policy. Members are reminded that the cameras are activated with the sound system and that they must switch on microphones when they finish speaking and off when finished speaking. Okay. Item on the agenda is Order of Business. There are no changes to the Order of Business as circulated. Here's a reminder to members that you are required to be present from the beginning of consideration of each planning application to be able to participate in the decision-making. For members joining remotely, please keep your cameras on for the duration of the meeting in the interest of openness and transparency. When not speaking, mute your microphone to minimise interference from background noise and please use the raise hand function to advise the convener that you'd like to ask a question or raise a point of order. All discussions should take place via the convener. Votes will be taken by a show of hands. We've had no request for presentation or for hearing today, so that takes you to Item 2.1, which is Declarations of Interest. The Council's Code of Conduct requires members to publicly declare interest in the riding of the meeting. These can be financial or non-financial. Are there any interests to declare? Councillor Mathasquale? Thank you, Convene. On Item 4.4, I did declare an interest when it came to Committee, just for noting. So just to be consistent, I will just turn off the camera while we go through it. Thank you. Thank you very much. Apologies, were you able to hear me? Just about. Would you mind repeating? Can you hear me now? Paul's just turning you up. Am I up now? Yeah, you should be now. Thanks, Councillor. Okay, so again, Item 4.4, I'm declaring an interest because when it came to Committee, for noting, I declared an interest by mistake. So to be consistent, I will just turn off the camera while we go through it. Thank you. Thank you, noted. Okay, Item 3 is the minute of the previous meeting, 1st May 2024. That's submitted for approval as a correct record. Agreed. Section 4, General Applications, Miscellaneous, Business and Pre-Application Reports. Item 4.1 is a report for a forthcoming application by AMA Crammond Limited for a proposal of application notice at land 130 metres east of 14 Crammond Road, North Crammond. It's recommended that Committee note the key issues at this stage and advises of any other issues. Noted. Item 4.2 is a report for a forthcoming application by Edinburgh Marina Holdings Limited for a proposal of application notice at Plot 35A, Granton Harbour, West Harbour Road, Edinburgh and committee's asked to note the key issues at this stage and advise of any other issues. Noted. Item 4.3 is an application for planning permission at Sixth Circus Lane, Stockbridge, and it's recommended that this application be granted. Agreed. Item 4.4 is an application for planning permission at 2 Craighour Place, Mortdon, and it's recommended that this application be granted. Agreed. Item 4.5 is an application for approval of matters specified in conditions at Green Dykes South site, Green Dykes Road, Edinburgh, and it's recommended that this application be approved. Agreed. Item 4.6 is an application for planning permission at 67 Pefor Place, Edinburgh, and it's recommended that this application be granted. Agreed. Item 4.7 is an application for planning permission at 120 B, Princes Street, Edinburgh, and it's recommended that this application be granted. Agreed. Item 4.8 is an application for planning permission at 1 Queen Charlotte Lane, Edinburgh, and it's recommended that this application be refused. Another last question? That takes to section seven, which is applications for detailed presentation. Item 7.1 is an application for planning permission at 185-187 Dundee Street and 4 Dundee Terrace, Edinburgh, and I'll hand over to Planning Officer. Morning Committee. This application is for the demolition of existing buildings and direction of student accommodation, so generous with commercial and retail floor space, class 1A, and associated amenity space landscaping and cycle parking at 185-187 Dundee Street and 4 Dundee Terrace. The application site is shown here in the red circle with Dundee Street coming along here and Dundee Terrace there. The Western Approach Road runs here at the lower level. We've got Dalry Cemetery here, Park here, Fountain Park Ledger Centre up here, Fountain Bridge Public Library here, and the Canal Run in here. This is just a close-up of the application site. As you can see, it's a triangular site here with the buildings mostly towards the eastern side of the site. This is just another couple of shots shown from different angles. The top one shows looking westwards at the site and the bottom one shows a more above view looking towards Dundee Terrace with the buildings involved. This is just a street view showing you the existing buildings on the site. This one here has the front door here, the windows here, and there's a larger building at the back. Coming along Dundee Street, just looking towards heading into town, this white building here and it goes all the way down to the level on the Western Approach Road. Then as you come through Dundee Street, you can see the rest of the building on the side here. This is a slide from westward looking eastwards towards the city with this application site here. There's a building there. Then as you can see, the site slopes down there with this building here. And this just shows the Western Approach Road. The white building here that we saw earlier with the bridge which is Dundee Street and the buildings here and you can see the levels again there. This is just the block showing the proposed development sitting in here. And this is a slightly off the application form. You can see it's kind of an upside down V shape. This eastern part of it just pulled back slightly from the existing elevation building line and a new footpath along Dundee Terrace is proposed here reconfiguring off the existing on-street parking here with the introduction of street trees and access to a bicycle store here and some solar panels there. And you will see marked on here some building to building distances. Most of them are about 15 metres but many are like 16 to 17 metres from buildings opposite. Sorry ma'am, my mouse has kind of ... Sorry about that, so this is just the floor plan here. You can see on the eastern end of the ground floor the proposed retail/commercial space will be here with an internal maintenance space and management suite here, cycle parking here. All these are accessed from Dundee Terrace, a courtyard here on Dundee Street, a courtyard here on Dundee Terrace, a bin store etc here and the substation there. The upper floors one, two and three are of a similar layout with cluster flats that either end eastern or most western end and studio flats in between. The fourth floor will be similar to the floors below it but it will have an outdoor amenity space here and an indoor amenity space there. And the upper level will have indoor amenity space which you can also access down onto the roof terrace and it will have solar panels placed on the roof here and some plants in there. This is the lower levels here, again the lower bike store here and you can see that the studio is there and the basement will just have the plant in it. This is the proposed building here. You can see fronted on Dundee Street along here will be buffed brick with aluminium framed windows and flashings and some powder coated railings and the accesses will be in from Dundee Street to the detail unit and the student accommodation and access to the bike stores. This is a view of the proposed building looking along Dundee Terrace, you can see the proposed for street trees here and parking and the existing street trees will remain. Another view looking towards the city eastwards of the Dundee Terrace view and you can see that the v-shape here just comes in slightly further back from the street. And a view of the building as you're coming up on the approach, so we saw earlier from the street views that there was a white building here and a building here and this will use the boundaries here and turn in towards Dundee Street. And this is just looking eastwards from Angle Park Terrace and the building would kind of sit in here if you were heading into town. The key considerations for this application are the principle of development, historic assets of places, sustainability including climate change, design quality and place, community both for neighbouring properties and future occupiers and transport. In terms of student accommodation the site is within walking distance of many campuses, for example Merkerson and also longer walks, for example University of Edinburgh, George Square and most campuses are within a 10 to 20 minute cycle from the site. There are also bus services offering routes to universities, including those from Dundee Street and those nearby in Gorgate and Slateford roads. In terms of student concentration using our 800 metre radius on the 10 minute walk to the site, the proposal would increase this to 32% of the population and when looking at the smaller data zones, which is a lot less than 800 metres, it would increase it to 40% and both of these are under the 50% limit threshold in the guidance. In terms of mix of accommodation type, there will be 154 studios which creates a 75%, there will be 52 cluster units which is 25% and there will also include the living accessible bedrooms in both studio and in the cluster flats, this again complies with student policy. So in terms of student housing on the site this is acceptable in principle. Moving on to retail and commercial use, it's an accessible location, it would contribute to local living and 20 minute neighbourhoods and encourage future occupiers to use the local shops and facilities. The retail unit commercial space is only 74 square metres and it would be quite small in scale and would complement the Dundee local centre adjacent. In terms of historic assets and places, the impact on the setting of listed buildings has been assessed and it's detailed in the report and it's been concluded that there's no harm to nearby listed buildings. However, the site has got some historical and archaeological interest from the transport heritage and therefore a condition relating to a programme of archaeological works is recommended. Moving on to climate change and mitigation, the building will be sustainable, there will be solar panels and renewable energy, it will be better insulated in the build and more energy efficient than the existing building on site, there will be solar panels on the roof and a new substation and it is well served by public transport and will provide cycle parking including charging points for electric bikes. In terms of the design quality and place, the building is designed in the round, that is it's got no rear elevation, it's looking onto both Dundee Street and Dundee Terrace, it has an active frontage on the street which is retained in the proposal and it would demarcate you leaving the area and moving out westwards and it would also create a strong entrance if you're coming heading eastwards into Dundee Street and the local centre. It will strengthen the sense of place. In terms of spatial pattern, the prevailing pattern is of tenement blocks of four storeys high and the proposal will just be slightly higher than this and the scale of the buildings in the surrounding area, particular the newer buildings, are of a similar mass and scale. The building will slot comfortably within the site and in the surrounding area and streetscape. The materials proposed are modern and reflect those of the newer buildings in the area and are acceptable. Moving on to public realm improvements, the footpath along Dundee Terrace will improve the pedestrian environment, the parking will be re-configured and there will be more trees introduced into the street. The proposal is an accessible and sustainable location which will contribute to compact neighbourhoods and is within easy reach of local facilities and will contribute to a sense of place. In terms of amenity and neighbouring amenity, a daylight assessment was submitted and it shows that some windows of existing properties will experience a reduction in day lighting. However, this is within the limits of the Edinburgh design guidance. Information was also submitted on the loss of sunlight to some of the front gardens along Dundee Terrace and it is notable that in the evening there will be a loss of sunshine to these gardens on the buildings on the eastern end of Dundee Terrace from the evening sun. In terms of amenity, as well, because of the impact on sunlight it is slightly infringing on the Edinburgh design guidance, however, on balance and of the benefits of, for example, reusing a brownfield site is acceptable in this instance. The windows will overlook the public street with some of them on Dundee Terrace being more angled so therefore there are no privacy or over-looking issues. There are conditions recommended about plant and substation noise as detailed in the report. Food occupiers will have a satisfactory living environment and the use of conditions will ensure that this occurs and these are again detailed in the report. The rooms will be adequate day lighting and will be adequate amenity space both outdoor and internal. In terms of transport, the provision of the footpath will improve the pedestrian environment, the zero parking is welcome and the cycle parking, the numbers of spaces are acceptable. However, the proportion of the cycle parking spaces and types does not comply with the Edinburgh design guidance or the cycle fact sheet and therefore condition is recommended. In summary, the setting of the listed buildings will not be harmed and the proposal is acceptable with regard to section 59 of the Planning, Listed Buildings and Conservation Area, Scotland Act 1997. Overall, the proposal complies with the development plan which comprises MPF 4 and the LDP 2016 with the use of conditions. The principle of development is acceptable and the proposal will contribute to local compact and sustainable living and 20 minute neighbourhoods. The proposed development will support placemaking as of an appropriate scale form and design. It is in a sustainable location and will complement vitality and viability of Dundee Street Local Centre. The impact on amenity of naming properties is not unreasonable and future occupiers will have a satisfactory living environment with use of conditions. The proposal is acceptable and the recommendation is to grant permission subject to financial contribution towards healthcare infrastructure. There are no other material considerations that outweigh this conclusion. Thank you committee, that's the end of my presentation. Thank you very much indeed and before we begin I would like to welcome Councillor Cowdery who has joined us today, very nice to see you again, and I see Councillor Burgess is also with us, so welcome to you both. Right, questions, I see Councillor Jones, I see Councillor Manish Manekin and Councillor Doug Leish. Thank you Camino, thank you for the report. A loss of sunlight in the evenings will be experienced by the small front tenement gardens along Dundee Terrace. Can you just point out as a matter of clarification where those gardens are, have we got pictures of the extent please? That's the front gardens there that run along, so it's a traditional sort of setback space that sits within the frontage of the tenements, so it's this area here in the frontage of the tenements that would experience the loss of gardens, the loss of sunlight, it's these small areas here that run along the front, right along the front, all the way along the block. And for how long a period in the day is that loss of sunlight? It would happen, the test based on the Spring Equinox, so it would be after six o'clock in the evening they would lose, about the western part of Dundee Terrace would lose the sunlight to that, but a lot of these gardens are already in the shade due to them facing out northwards, a very small amount they would lose. I think it's important to recognise that these buildings already face northwards as well, so just to make sure you understand the orientation. Councillor McMeish- landscapes, thank you. Sorry, I'm echoing here for some reason. You've answered one of my questions about density and I understand it's under the allowed level of student housing. Can you just confirm, sorry, I'm having my breathing problems again. Can you just confirm that because of the size of the site there is no requirement for affordable housing, is that the case? Yes, that's the case. Thank you. Councillor Daghlisha. Thank you very much, convener and thanks Jackie for the report. I just wanted to ask a question about page 16 of the report. It kind of follows on from what Councillor Jones has asked. I just want to sort of read this and ask a question. Of the 302 windows tested using the VCS showed that one-third of the windows would experience loss of daylight and would not meet the daylight requirements. Can you give a little bit more detail on that, where about in the development there would be a loss of daylight. That does seem like on the face of it quite a lot of potential apartments that would be affected by this. The daylight study because of the VSC, they then did the average daylight factor and it showed that 95 per cent of the rooms tested would not suffer a loss. That's a more thorough and more detailed test and I think seven rooms would fail that out than all those rooms along Dundee terrace. I actually have a follow up on that one. This is obviously quite a large building and even within your own documentation it's slightly higher than possibly the area, etc. How much of that additional height adds to the impact? Quite a small impact because of the height, it's not that much higher than the existing buildings and the height would be slightly higher and then because the top floor is set back, it's got less of an impact, if it went straight up. I suppose to clear up the question, I suppose even if it was one storey or two storey there would still be an impact on the surrounding, it's just building anything there would be an impact on the surrounding because it's quite low density at the moment. The existing buildings on the site are quite low level but the pavilion pattern of the area has the tenement blocks which are four storeys high plus the roof, so this building is quite comparable with the density and the height of that in terms of impact. And it's also about between 15 metres to 17 metres back from quite a wide street at that point. I was just going to add that the image that we put on the screen, the top right hand side there is the section at the northernmost point or the easternmost point of the Dundee terrace and you can see the relationship that actually where we've got although it's five storeys there it's almost equivalent to the four storeys of the tenement height with the difference in four to see one levels. Okay I see Councillor Stineboort and then Councillor Matusquale. Thank you Convenor. Does this meet our design guidance with regard to open space? I can say it has a little it doesn't seem to have much considering the numbers that are going to be occupying it. It has the courtyard at lower ground level front and onto Dundee terrace which is external space. It also has an external terrace on the fourth floor which would provide adequate amenity for future occupiers. I suppose just to clear that up I suppose the question is that a yes then or a no I mean it's a yes. Councillor Matusquale followed by Councillor. Thank you Goodvenor and thank you for your presentation. It's just about the health care contributions that you mentioned before. Sorry my iPad is not responding now. Is it what it's mentioned on page 140 of the report please. I'm sorry could you repeat the question i can't quite hear it. Maybe I'll try to speak a bit louder. You mentioned about health care contributions and the only reference I find in the report is on one on page 140. I just want to confirm if those are the amounts or if I might miss reading something here. Thank you Yeah the contribution is detailed in the report under developer infrastructure and also in informatives. So can I come back so is it the ones I'm mentioning? The figure in the report sorry I've just got a raw copy without the the full agenda paper so the informative is recommended to secure financial contribution of £2,336 so it's set out at the a rate of £11.34 per unit is what's set out in the supplementary guidance for contributions within this area. Okay thank you. Councillor Bennett. Thank you Goodvenor. Forgive me if this has already been covered and I can't see the financial contribution towards health care infrastructure is required. Can you tell me any more about that? Has there been an assessment of access to health care? If you just bear with me a second I'm just gonna write a document up. Now I have Councillor Duggalish wants to go. I'm waiting with this oh go what that's preempting my question was is anybody who wanted to ask a question so I will then have after this question question being answered from Councillor Bennett I'll have Councillor Cowdery followed by Councillor Gartner. Thank you. And then Councillor Burch's. So the requirement for the actions is set out in the finalised developer contributions and infrastructure supplementary guidance and on page 56 of that guidance it deals with the health care contributions and there's part eight of that relates to the Polworth area and it's for relocation and expansion and it says rate within the guidance of £11.34 per student bed space that's created and that is the requirement that comes out so there's a rate for residential and there's a rate for student and that's within the supplementary guidance. Thank you very much convener and thank you for your welcome. There is a footbridge just outside the site over the western approach road and I wondered if any assessment has been made of this the impact of this development on that footbridge it's in a relatively sorry state and I just wondered if there was going to be you mentioned the design street design guidance and I wondered if this might something along those lines might extend to the bridge if there was any opportunity or any need to upgrade that footbridge. I suppose just to be clear are you referring to the one that's along Dundee Terrace? Between Dundee Terrace and Dundee Street over the western approach road. There's not been any requirements to upgrade that and it wasn't considered in the application. And was my question I suppose first part of the question was has any assessment been made on any likely impact of this development on that footbridge? I've not made any assessment on impact on the footbridge. The entrance will be from Dundee Street to the application site both to the student's entrance the cycle entrance and the retail unit will be in Dundee Street. Councillor Gardner. Yeah thanks convener so in the planning application there's a retail unit along with the student housing there's an existing retail unit on on the site it's quite large has there been any assessment of the viability of the proposed retail unit and does it have any storage space I didn't see any in the basement plan for example and it looked very very small so I'm wondering how viable it really is has that been assessed. The assessment was made on it being a small retail unit and the viability it could also be possibly used for community use because of its scale so that there's no been any further drilling down into the specifics internal of that retail space and it would be up to whoever occupies it to make the best use of it. Just a wee follow up then you talk about community use could you expand on that a wee bit please. Well just for example they could have like a because it's class 1a for example they could have like a small cafe where they get community events happening for example. Sorry just another quick follow up like if you're saying a cafe then that also needs a kitchen that needs storage space how would that have been assessed. The assessment was based on it being a 74 metre squared small unit and have not drilled down to what they would need within that particular unit for whatever particular use it's going to have. Councillor Boudras. Thanks very much convener, so a national planning framework supports proposals that are designed to minimise greenhouse gas emissions and I'm wondering if you could say how this proposal achieves that thank you. Yeah it's got, it will have renewable energies in for example solar panels on the rooftop there's also the proposed electricity substation on the western part of the site and this will enable them to have a more non fossil fuel energy strategy. The new building will be more energy efficient and better insulated in terms of building regulations and that would be its contribution to reducing greenhouse gas emissions and it's also providing for cycle parking including electrical charging points, it's well-placed for use of public transport, it's well-placed for walking and these would all contribute to reducing green emissions, sorry increasing green emissions and reducing the fossil fuel usage. Can I ask a follow-up, sorry convener, of course you can Councillor Boudras. So in terms of the provision of renewable energies, do you have any information on what proportion of the building's energy use will be renewable, mentioned solar panels and I think there's air source heat pumps are proposed, yeah thank you. It would be expected that the building would be wholly supportive through its energy strategy and contribute to the green emissions with no fossil fuel emissions. Yes sorry convener, I just wanted, the conditions that are proposed by officers in the report, will those be automatically added? That's a secondary question, that's not a follow-up question, so if you just hold that thought for a moment. I just wanted to check whether anybody who hadn't asked a question so far would like to ask questions. I'm looking at I think Councillor Marion Cameron, is there any person left I think who hasn't asked a question? Yeah sorry I wasn't putting my hands up there I was just having a stretch, sorry, if you thought I was putting my hands up to ask a question. I don't have any questions at this time. My colleagues have done a great job of asking questions, thank you. Okay so moving on to secondary questions, I had Councillor Douglas, she wanted to go for a secondary question and then Councillor Greene and then Councillor Burgess. Thank you very much, so I was just going to pick up on a question that Councillor McNeese meekin asked earlier, if the site was 0.003 of a hectare larger, it would have to have housing on it, I know this has come up in the public representations as a concern, I would like for officers to maybe go into a little bit more detail into that and potentially if you have a map of the boundary of the site as well, I'd appreciate that, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. That, oh Paul don't leave, the slide's not sharing, it's not changed, come back. We just have a small technical, oh no. Okay. Sorry about that committee. You'll see there the red line of the extent of the site is the area that's been measured at 0.247 of a hectare, so it actually does start to take in some of the carriageway, et cetera, which we would normally discount from a site area figure as well, it takes in some of the pavement on the corners, et cetera, which we would discount as developable area, and then when you actually look at the very western side of the site where that slight curve in Kink is, when I was editing the report I actually went in and had a specific look at that, in terms of the site area and the site hectare and that actually just is a drop right down to the western approach road and it's covered in trees and things, it's not really something we'd be looking at as developable area and then it comes right abuts right next to the bridge, et cetera, that goes across the western approach road as well, so we were comfortable that the site area, although it's shown as 0.247 hectares, the red line, the developable area where the building's going is that blue line, which is 0.17 of a hectare, so I was comfortable that, you know, there's roads, there's parking, there's pavement, et cetera, that makes up that 0.247 of a hectare. Thank you. Councillor Gardner? Yeah, just a quick follow-up on that, Elaine. Thank you, Mr Convener. Is it normal to deduct all the ancillary stuff or is that just part of development anyway? The guidance does allow you to deduct the developable area, so I wouldn't take the carriageway or the pavement as developable area, we're getting an improvement here, they're putting in pavements, they're widening parts of pavements, so the actual building developable area is 0.17 of a hectare, so it's normal practice we would do that. Councillor Burgess? Thanks, Convener. It was just to check that the conditions recommended by the officers are automatically added, we don't need to raise them and approve them individually, like the cycle parking is not meeting our standards. Thank you. Yes, all the conditions that are detailed in the report is our recommendation to grant subject to those conditions. Thank you. Okay, does anybody have a secondary question they wish to ask? If not, I'm moving on to the third question. Councillor Gartner? Thanks, Convener. So I'm thinking about DES3 and compliance with DES3, and DES3 is about incorporating and enhancing existing features, and I'm thinking about the corner onto Dundee Street, where there's currently a retail outlet, as I mentioned earlier, and in the design proposal, there's a blank wall, and so I'm wondering how that complies with, particularly, DES3 and active frontages as well, and so on, so I'd be pleased to hear your thoughts on that. The blank wall is getting pulled back from back, play the Dundee Terrace and the dressing standpoint, it's pulling back, and the plans do show a small public art or planter or something in that area, just to make it a bit more attractive. Just a quick follow-up, so would that be a good canvas for a bit of vandalism then in the future? I couldn't comment on that, we've assessed it as it would give an active street frontage on Dundee Terrace, there wouldn't be at all an uplift and footfall in the area, so that would be how I would look at vandalism, I can't really assume that everything will be vandalised. So it's helpful you've shown that Elaine, could you also show the proposal, so the committee understand what it's talking about, it's just a blank wall, thanks convener. Thank you. I think that's the image there, Councillor Gardner. Okay, do we have any further questions from committee? I see no hands being raised in the room and I see no hands on-line, okay, so moving on to discussion, who would like to open up discussion? Councillor Gardner. Yeah, I understand that the use in the report needs to be student housing and we have examined the site area and I accept what Elaine has given us about deducting certain elements of that, but I'd be keen to hear other people's views on that. I am concerned a wee bit about the height, but it does accord with the, or it's slightly higher actually, it's one storey higher than the adjacent to Dundee Terrace, which will impact views out of there. What concerns me, convener, is the retail unit, as you probably understand from my questioning, I don't think it's actually viable as a retail unit and I think we have policies about active street frontages. There is currently a large retail unit, it's a school uniform shop at the moment. There is, if you're coming along Dundee Street from town, you do see a small window there, we're going to get, and there's an opportunity under DES 3 to incorporate and enhance existing features. They're actually just putting a blank wall there, which I think takes away from what's there rather than there's real opportunity to enhance, it's a relatively small element in the whole scheme, but I think it is an important one because it's at ground level, active frontages protect the public, they create interest and all of these student housing developments just give it a blank inward looking form and don't contribute very much to the street. So that really is my major concern, so I just wanted to put that out there. And convener, thank you. Councillor McNeish, weekend. Thank you. I actually think it's a, I know this area quite well. I think it's well designed and I think it will provide good amenity to students. But I think what's also important to me is it is within walking distance and good public transport of a lot of universities and some of the proposals we've looked at. It's really difficult to see how students are going to get to campus. And I think this is cited in an area where the amenity will be there for them. So yeah, I'm minded to support. Anybody else further wish to comment? Okay, no. I think there's been a lot of discussion about this. It is a really complicated site and it's really, really difficult. What is there presently I think we can all agree is probably not really fit for purpose going forward. We are extremely limited in terms of what space we have available within our city and it is always a complication when it boils down to, you know, what can be used. There's a fair level of hard standing there already, et cetera. So to reutilise that I think is actually quite important. I take on board comments Councillor Gardner said and again, I think we're back to the perfect and the enemy of good, et cetera where we have something that's in front of us and I would hope that there would be going forward, you know, there has been, you know, a request to have a retail unit. So my assumption would be something will come forward into that space. So there hopefully will be an active frontage coming forward to it. So I would be in minded to grant the officer's recommendation. I appreciate it is quite a large building, et cetera, but the top floor has been drawn back, so that it does reduce slightly and it does take into consideration the fact that the site does drop down to a quite terrifying sort of level, et cetera. So I think it's been quite sympathetically done to try to have an even sort of look towards it. So I would be recommending the fact that we accept the officer's proposals and we grant this application going forward. So moving formal, okay. So I will be moving to grant the application and I shall be looking for a seconder. Councillor Jones. Formerly Condina. Councillor Gardiner. Yes, I would move, and I don't know if I'll get a seconder, but I'll put it out there and see where we go on this. At this stage it's a small element in the overall proposal, but it is important how people interact with buildings at street level. We have a mixed use policy and it's important to protect the street frontages that we have and enhance them. I know that local area particularly well, and on Dalry Road there used to be shop fronts, for example. Most of those have been converted into residential and they contribute nothing to the street. It creates a dead bit of street. Here the overall form of the building, I accept that it complies with the policy, but I think there's an opportunity for the proposal to be improved if we reject it today and come back with a more fitting street frontage. Because it's architecturally important the way the street comes along and you're really facing the building on its end at that eastern end you see it's called a gush at corner and you have them quite frequently in Glasgow. There's one or two in Edinburgh and they are quite important to the eligibility of the city. What we're getting in the proposal is a blank wall you saw in the slides, the aerosol graffiti on the current building. I don't want to create a blank canvas for that. I think that we could have a better retail unit and one that perhaps is a bit larger and more viable as well because I can't see how it was mooted that it would be a cafe or something like that. But there doesn't really seem to be any consideration of kitchen space or service space that those sort of, or a larger retail unit would require. So the policies convener that I'm going to suggest that committee consider is Des 1, design quality and context, I've outlined the context, the gush at corner, impact on setting. There is an existing window there. It's not enhanced, it's actually made worse. And licked that's Des 3, incorporating existing and potential features. And I'm not going to move Des 5 amenity because I don't think there is strong grounds there. Overall design layout, Des 7 and Des 13 shop fronts. So I may or may not have a seconder but I think it's important to put my position on record that I think we need to consider street frontages and things like that as well as other policies when looking at proposals. Thank you. No, I think Des 1, Des 3, Des 4, Des 7 and Des 13 my only advice would just be, you probably got enough without Des 13 in terms of alterations to existing shop fronts because it's a wholesale redevelopment of a site would be my only advice. That's a fair point. I'll take Des 13 out then. Thank you Elaine. Did you have Des 4? I didn't think we mentioned Des 4, I thought it was Des 1, Des 3, Des 7. Sorry, Des 1, Des 4, Des 3, I'm going backwards and that may cause some confusion. And then Des 7 and not Des 13. Councillor MagCaprio, are you seconding that? Yeah, I think it could be a really small adjustment. I think overall the project has quite good quality but I agree with my colleague on this. I think that that role could have a bit more of TLC if I may use this term. I'm pretty sure we won't win this but I was hoping that the developers could just make a few more adjustments following what my colleague already said. Thank you. Okay, so we have two positions. A motion moved by Councillor Osler, seconded by Councillor Jones which is to grant planning permission subject to conditions, reasons and informatives and a legal agreement as set out in section C of the report by the Chief Planning Officer and against that an amendment moved by Councillor Gardner, seconded by Councillor Matos-Kwaeo which is to refuse planning permission on the grounds that it is contrary to LDP policies Des 1, Des 3, Des 4 and Des 7. Can I take the votes for the amendment by Councillor Gardner, please? Thank you and for the motion, please. Thank you. That's nine for the motion and two for the amendment. The motion is carried. Thank you very much to the committee. I believe that is it for the day. Enjoy before the ring comes. Thank you. Thank you. .