Transcript

• I agree with the lady on the chair.
• Spoke colleagues, it is 10 o'clock, so about three should make a start. I've just, there are two or three items before we start on the formal agenda. First of all, to welcome new members of the committee. One of whom is with us, the body, Bruce Price.
• Good morning.
• The other, Andrew Blackmore will be joining us, I think, online a little bit later on. But we welcome them.
• Thank you.
• I also think it might be appropriate if you would be agreeable if we placed on record now an acknowledgement and appreciation of the contribution made by Richard Stowe to the Standards Committee in the past.
• Indeed.
• Thank you. I also now just need to say to you that one of the items, item five, the Local Resolution Protocol, we're proposing that's deferred from this meeting. And James, I think, might be able to explain to you why that is.
• Yes, of course. I attended Modern Officers Group, the All Ways Modern Officers Group on Friday last week. And the OMS one was there to talk about an item that's later on in our agenda. And entirely coincidentally to our agenda today, the advice that they're going to be issuing new guidance in relation to the Local Resolution Protocol and the powers of the Standards Committee at the end of that. So I propose to the committee also be to defer this item until that guidance is received. I can then update the protocol to make sure it's compliant and with best practice, and then we'll get to the next committee members are content to do that.
• Could we just ask when Leon will come, he'll say the word only then then. (laughing) Intends to issue the guidance when I asked them end of summer, that's what we said.
• End of summer, so that could be September then.
• Well, hopefully before we did in September.
• Yes, exactly, but they didn't say this summer.
• Okay.
• Okay, yeah, fine. If we could move to our agenda then, and we need to elect a chair and a vice chair. Do you have any nominations for chair?
• I mean, I'm happy to nominate Peter if he's willing to do it.
• I need to nominate Peter.
• Any other nominations? I'm happy to accept the nomination if that's available to you all. Okay, I'm gonna need to elect a vice chair. Nominations for vice chair. Should we say that these have to come from amongst the independent members? Sorry, I'll choose by that claim.
• Is Serene happy to take the nomination?
• Well, I have been asked to consider it and I would be happy to do so. Bear in mind, I have other commitments outside though, but yes, I'm happy to be nominated.
• That's excellent.
• Okay, thank you. Any other nominations? Are you happy with Marina da Vastia? Yeah, okay, thank you. Okay, if we get them to the body of the agenda now. She asked if there are any apologies for absence?
• Andrew Blackmore.
• Apart from Andrew Blackmore, who I hope will be joining us later on. Declarations of interest? None? Okay, thank you.
• Chair, sorry, can I declare an interest? Sorry, I've got my screen on. I haven't got the number. It's the item with the decision notices. Thank you, chair.
• Personal or prejudicial?
• Is that personal or prejudicial declaration?
• I know that it's for noting, but I don't know. I possibly, I wouldn't take any part in the conversation. Probably prejudicial.
• Okay.
• So I think that would be for all the duration of that, then we can go back in.
• Yeah, okay. Okay.
• What was that decision? Sorry, I missed that.
• Prejudicial interest, so just informing the chair that the council has to leave the meeting and then be asked to rejoin.
• All right. Because minutes of our previous meeting on the 9th of October last year, are these an accurate record?
• Yeah.
• I believe so.
• Any amendments? No, fine, thank you. I think that-
• I'm trying to remember that far back, but yeah.
• Yeah. (laughing)
• I read my memory notes.
• I think that any matters arising from those that are covered elsewhere in our agenda today, unless there is anything that anyone wants to raise, that isn't. No? Fine, thank you. As agreed, the local resolution will be approved and the local resolution protocol, item five is deferred to pass to item six of planning code of practice. Perhaps I've asked James just to introduce the item.
• Of course. So the purpose of this report is to update members in relation to the planning code of practice. So at the last meeting in October, mostly before I joined, I understand members were discussing the planning code of practice, which appears on the council's website and prescribed rules on procedures that officers and members had to follow as part of the planning committee process, but didn't form part of the council's constitution. My view is that it should form part of the constitution because it prescribes those rules and procedures and should be part of our standing orders. So I also spoke with planning colleagues and discovered that the document was a few years old and hadn't been amended for a number of years, I think going back to 2012. So the council's planning lawyer, along with planning colleagues, updated the planning code of practice with the best current practice. And it was approved by the planning committee and gesture update members. This will form part of the council's constitution and of course, it needs to go to democratic service committee next, and then to be approved by council to form part of the constitution. So as I said, the purpose of this report is to update members in relation to the progress of that. And the recommendation is that 2.1 standards committee notes the position in relation to the planning code of practice, which is attached to the appendix one.
• Thank you, Jane. Comments, colleagues?
• Do we have any timescales for those two onward journeys of that? Yes, of course, this report.
• The democratic service committee was due to sit on the 8th of July, but that's now been deferred, isn't it, Nicola, because of the pre-election period.
• I can tell you the date of the next report.
• I believe.
• Yeah.
• Yeah, 14th of October.
• And then the full council meeting will be shortly after that, presumably.
• 14th of October, I think.
• Council, 24th of October.
• Okay, any other issues arising from that?
• Okay.
• Fine, thank you. Item seven, adoption and procedure for giving referrals from the public services onwards and for Wales. Again, James, can I just ask you to provide an introduction to this?
• Yes, of course, Chair. So, the purpose of this report is for the committee to consider procedure when they receive referrals from the Ombudsman. So, as the committee is aware, members are required to comply with the staff report upon that. The council has the protocol in its constitution. All local parties are required to adopt a code of conduct based on the model code of conduct. If there's a breach of the code of conduct, then the Ombudsman and the staff report investigate under part three of the local government act 2000. When they, deciding whether to investigate or not, they carry out a two to three inch test, and then they refer it either to the standards committee or the adjudication panel for Wales. If they refer it to the standards committee, at the moment, we don't have procedure in place to be able to deal with that referral. No, later on in the agenda for today, we do have such a referral to consider. So, I've prepared a procedure which is attached from appendix one to this report. It deals with the administrative and procedural requirements that we'd expect for a referral to the standards committee. So, things like structure documents, witness documents, and initial determination, and then the hearing itself, so there's representation, evidence requirements, and legal advisor sanctions. It also provides for a subcommittee to be appointed. So, a set of the entire standards committee hearing a particular complaint. It is open to the standards committee to refer that to a subcommittee that we've heard to in the procedure as a panel, and the core requirements for that panel are set up in paragraph three, and they mirror the requirements of the standards committee in terms of at least half the membership should be independent members, and if it's concerning a community council matter, then one of those members should also be the community council member or the standards committee. So, as I say, the procedure is an appendix one, and the recommendations today are that the standards committee adopts the procedure to deal with referrals from the officer future.
• Thank you, James. Go ahead, colleagues.
• I have a comment on paragraph six, 17. I think it's the last one. Is it the last one? Publication, it's entitled.
• 17, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• It says the panel will produce a report at the outcome of the investigation and send a copy of this report to all parties, the ombudsman, got it right, and monitor office within 14 days. So, who's writing that report?
• It'd be a matter for the chair. So, the chair could write it, or he could ask the officer to write to the legal advisor.
• Okay, so, bearing in mind, it's for wider distribution. Would that be best to have some kind of set process? If it's written by the chair, it's scrutinized by legal, or, I mean, should there not be some?
• Yeah, so, the monitoring officer, it says, I think it should, upon receipt, the monitoring officer shall arrange for the report to be published on the website. So, it appears that the chair writes it, and then it appears there doesn't seem to be any kind of scrutiny of it, just in case it. So, the panel will make a decision, and then that decision is captured in a report to the outcome of the decision, and that's published. It's a record of the decision of the panel. If the committee wants to add a layer of scrutiny on the panel's decision, but I'm not sure who could scrutinize that decision.
• So, there is a legal representative of the council assisting the standards committee.
• Absolutely.
• So, they could guide the chair in what is...
• Absolutely, so, the legal advisor, whether it's a monitoring officer or somebody else who's been appointed the monitoring officer, for example, if the monitoring officer is unavailable or has a conflict, they will guide the panel and offer legal advice throughout the hearing procedure, which I think is paragraph nine.
• Yes, yeah. So, would it be helpful for that legal representative to be that person who cooperates or assists in the drafting of the report?
• Absolutely. I would expect that it would be an anybody who makes a decision or sits recorded in a report, and they would get legal advice on that and democratic services support in relation to that. So, maybe it was as implicit, but if you'd like me to amend it to make it explicit.
• I think it might be helpful to have it explicit. That's my view, and I don't know what others think.
• Okay, yeah.
• I mean, I sit on other quasi-judicial bodies, and it would always be guided by a legal representative as to what is being drafted to ensure that he is...
• Yeah, it should be an absolute intention. But if you feel it's not clear, then we can amend that before. So, the recommendation would be to approve the procedure subject to the amendment if suggested.
• That would be my suggestion. I don't know what others think. Do you have a view, Michael or Marieke?
• Malcolm Kerr, was you trained?
• Yeah.
• Thanks for the thoughts, I think.
• Thank you, Chet. Yeah, I'm sorry. I've got a really bad voice if it stops and cracks. I apologise. I just wanted to check, is this procedure, James, based on other procedures that other councils have been using, or is this a completely new procedure that you've had to develop from scratch?
• So, most councils in South Wales have a very similar procedure to this one. So, it's from there. So, the same procedure that I introduced to Cardiff, the one we're using carefully, and other bodies across South Wales use.
• Okay, great. That's just really helpful. And I agree with Rhian's points from earlier. Thank you.
• Can I just ask then, Rhian, are we suggesting that there would need to be perhaps two versions of the report, one which would be the report, and another that would be a report that had been scrutinised for press release? So, would there only be one report, and whatever that report, the version of that report was from the panel, that would be what would be released to the press, or a second report that had gone through a second sort of level of scrutiny for other reasons?
• I would have, I mean, my thought is there's one report, otherwise you end up with quite a lot of confusion. It's also, I believe this will be an open meeting. Will it not change? Did I not read that? So, like this meeting is, the public could be there. They could be watching it. They could be watching this morning. So, you know, open justice really in that respect. But in terms of drafting a report, following up a process that has to be guided by codes of practice and such, then I think it would be judicious for the chair and the panel to be guided by a legal representative to ensure that the County Council is discharging its duties appropriately.
• Can I make a little suggestion? In paragraph six, where it talks about the role of the legal advisor, it would be easy to put a little phrase in there to say that there'll be an attendance to advise the panel and the sister chair in the preparation of the report.
• Yes, that may be the best case.
• And then there'll be scrutiny. And it's a nice thing to pull a bit short.
• Yeah.
• Okay.
• Yes, thank you, Chair.
• And the report would, I mean, as it's going on the Monmouthshire County Council website, it's public.
• Yes.
• Okay.
• Andrew, our other new member, Andrew Blackmore, has submitted some written comments on one or two of the agenda items in case he couldn't join us in time. I can't see anything in his comments on this particular item that we haven't already covered. No, he's, he asked whether the panel would be able to make a determination on the same day of its meeting. Is that?
• Yeah, I can get the committee day committee June and reconvene on another day, for example, if it was running late in the afternoon.
• Okay.
• And then it's just an adjournment and then reconvened.
• Okay. Any other comments? In which case, subject to the amendments that we've discussed, are you happy to approve the adoption of this procedure?
• Yes.
• Yeah. Okay, thank you. Pass to item eight, which are the decision notices passed to us from the public services office. James, again, could I just ask you to guide us on what we can and can't do with the-
• Of course, Nick, that's an exempt item. So we could stop the political collapse with the exempt and the-
• Just to know that we'll stay offline then. Do we stay offline?
• The duration of this report, yeah.
• Just two seconds. (silence) (silence) (silence) (silence) (silence) [BLANK_AUDIO]

Transcript