Transcript

which is a election of chair. Can I have nominations for chair, please? Is that second date?

• Yes, chair.
• Okay. Are there any other nominations? I assume there are no other nominations. Therefore, Councillor Thomas, would you like to take the chair, please? Thank you. [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] Okay, well, this morning to the licensing meeting today on Tuesday the 21st of May here in County Hall at Esque and thanks for your ongoing support. We move now then to item two on the agenda, which is the appointment of a vice chair. Are there any nominations? Okay, is that a seconder? See Riley, thanks. So would you like to change your-- Okay. Excuse me, chair, but we can't do anything at home other than what you're saying. Right, we couldn't hear, see Riley being nominated then. All right, I think she was fairly quiet, I think. [INAUDIBLE] Yeah, I could-- Right, chair. Yeah, due respects. When your nomination went through as well, we never heard your response either or your nomination. So I think there must be a sound issue really, and back to us. Yeah, yeah. Well, from my interest, obviously, Tony Easton proposed me. [INAUDIBLE] And then deal, did you second? I did, can you hear me, Simon? I can hear you now, I don't really-- I'm not that bothered about what happened there. It just started not getting no feedback on the basis of that. Can you hear me, Simon? I can, right? Yeah, I think if people can speak into the microphone, and not everybody's got such a ringing voice as mine, I'm afraid. But when you speak, if you're close to the microphone, and obviously speak into it, then obviously everybody can hear. But then for the vice chair, it was proposed by Tony Easton, and then seconded by you, see Riley. OK, so there aren't any sound problems, and then obviously please come back in. Item three on the agenda. Apologies for absence. No apologies, Chair, but I believe Councillor Watts might join the meeting late. Right, OK. Thank you. Four. Excuse me, Chair. Yes. I was just going to say, just to be careful, I'm having a problem with the camera issue at the moment, but I am here. Right, OK, thank you, Councillor Jane Luke, because we'll obviously bear that in mind. You might have to speak up if, when we get to discussion, because obviously, you know, unless... No problem. OK. OK, declarations of interest. None. Five, confirm, and sign the minutes of the previous meeting on people, somebody happy to propose that. Deal. Happy to move those, Chair. OK, thank you, Deal. I'll second that, Chair. OK. I'm certainly happy with them. So I will sign those at the end of the meeting. OK. I think we'll have to, I think we just, I'm just clarifying now with, I will solicit here, you know, with Jane, we can't actually see you. So we don't know if you're there or not. So I'm afraid, unless you, you know, the camera comes in, then you won't be able to vote. But the first item won't have a vote, will it, Chair? The first item won't have a vote, will it? No. OK. But just a cloudy fight. Do you think you resolve it by the time we get sent? OK, thank you, Councillor. Right. Thank you. Thank you. And the idea is how I get this result. I honestly don't know, when I say one of the officers is looking at it at the moment, but obviously there's nothing that I can ask you to. Thank you. OK. Thank you. OK. Item six now then. Statement of gambling policy and proposals for casinos. No. It's Linda O'Gorman, the licensing officer wants to come in to just to tell us a little bit about this. Thanks. Yeah, thank you, Chair. The report's brought to you today. It's come that time again, the three-year period where we have to review the statement of gambling policy. The review needs to be in place and the policy itself needs to be in place by 31st of January 2025. So you'll note on 3.11 of the report is the proposed timescales to actually get this policy through. So today is the first draft of the policy. It's then proposed to go out for consultation between 1st June to 31st of August, whereby if there's any tweaks to the policy or any changes that needs to be done or any recommendations, that will then be brought back to the licensing and regulatory committee on the 17th of September 2024 for you to view the final draft and any further proposals you wish to put in or agree to the recommendations of changes at that time. It then has to be rubber stamped then at full council on 24th of October, then a legal notice in the paper, then the publication, and then it can commence in 31st of January 2025. So even though it seems quite a way off, if you look at the timescales, it has to be sort of coming here today, really, before we sort of kick off that consultation period as per previous years. You'll also note in the report there is a section on regarding the casinos. We've always passed a resolution at full council that we wouldn't entertain the idea of casinos. At present, there isn't any available, but we still have to make that decision at full council so that if one did become available and provide the gambling commission, then we would have that opportunity then whether we want to proceed and make an application for a casino or not. So you still have to pass our resolution which is then placed within the gambling policy itself. So that's the reason why this report has been brought here today. There are a number of changes you'll note as well in 3.7 that the gambling commission are reviewing the codes of practice. However, they have said that this will not affect the policy itself, given the details as in the policy, which was initially done by a template, and then it's been added to as the use progress, and that's clarified in 3.7, so it shouldn't delay the process of legally getting the policy in place by 31st of January 2025, which is the end date basically that has to be in buy. Thank you, Chair. Okay. Thanks. And I can see the chain over you, you are on screen now and we can see you loading clear with your reflective jacket on. We know that they're right, I'm glad this result. Comments now then, number one, I've got Councillor Alastair Neil, do you want to come in please? Thank you, Chair. Thanks for the introduction to the report. I really just wanted to ask if there are any other substantive changes to what must presumably be in Wales, a relatively standard approach to this, and note the issue with casinos. Is there anything else that is substantively unique to the Momship policy that would not be consistent with others across Wales? Thank you. Yeah, thank you. It is a consistent sort of policy, and we do work closely with our grant colleagues as well because of the nature of, you know, when they have to do risk assessments for the locality for individual premises. So that's what we tend to work in Gwent, it then goes past to the Orwell's group. So it is quite widespread really with the policy itself, and the gambling template was initially done by the gambling commission as a recommendation for all local authorities, so it wasn't deviated much from that. There may be areas that we need to sort of check throughout this consultation period with regards to any legal tweaks when it's referred into a sort of legislation within the policy. So that's something we'll be looking more thoroughly during the six-week period, and if there's any further recommendations that we want, something unique for Momship, if anything comes in. It gets quite widespread, the consultation, it goes to all those currently licensed. It goes to sort of gambling groups and sort of, you know, sort of the gamké and that sort of avenues is quite widely consulted upon. Okay, thanks, thanks for that. We're going on then to Councillor Christopher Edwards, do you want to come in? Thank you, Chair. I've got a couple of questions on the policy itself, but before that, obviously some of us remember the last time it went to full Council and the policy was adopted. Out of curiosity, first of all, though, has there been any interest or applications since it was last adopted in regard to casinos? Or are we simply known as a no casino county, if you like? Just that, we're known as a no casino county, but we haven't had any interest or, you know, saying why don't we have it within our area? It tends to be more focused on city areas, if anything, rather than sort of rural areas that they got the current sort of casinos in. Okay, thanks for that. My main questions, in the policy 1.5 and the consultation, it mentions and the bodies representing residents in the county, could you name an example of this? For instance, is it sort of groups rate into addiction, schools, youth clubs? And my second question, under 1.7, interested parties, I just want to clarify, there are three definitions of the interested party. Is a local school classified as an interested party under this criteria? And it mentions that the, I think the phrase close to the premises as well. I wondered what you would define as close, in other words, is it next door, is it the same street, is it around the corner, is it the same town? Thank you. Yeah, I'll try and answer both of the questions that you've raised there. We say close, there is, as with the licensing act, there's no like vicinity test as such. I mean, if this can be proven, there is going to be a detrimental effect if this was in the area, that's something that would be considered and then brought back to committee anyway, is to give an idea that, you know, we wouldn't sort of look to have stuff that may be detrimental to say a school nearby or children, because we're not there to sort of promote gambling for children, you know, so it's a number of elements that we would look at and it would be brought to committee then with regard to the policy itself. With regards to the consultation, it is quite widespread. We sort of work amongst a number of local authorities to say, you know, what sort of groups so you could have gambling groups or like I said, you know, advisory, when people got problem gambling, there could be associations for like say the race course and various things like that, you know. So it is quite widespread to have Councillors and local Councillors, town councils. So we try to get the message out, it's on the website as well, so we try to get the message out as much as we can and we sort of do a calm thing saying, you know, it's your opportunity to look at the policy and, you know, make comment if you want to on it. So we try and get it as far as we can out there and it said it also goes to those currently licensed as well, be it a small raffle holder in a local church, because that comes under the gambling remit to the much larger scale like the race course or betting shops. So it's quite wide. Thank you. Okay. Thanks. Can I ask people, I can see two people on screen with their hands up, but can we only use the chat hands up because then it comes in sort of sequential order, otherwise I'm trying to pick up, you know, on screen. We go next now then to Councillor Torne-Eason. Yes, thank you, thank you for your presentation, and it's coming back to the casino aspect. We are subject to Gwent Police as an account area of Gwent, are there any casinos in the rest of Gwent, Kaffini Newport, for example, and in the recent past we had the question mark about on-street casino-type places, like one that we turned down for licensed in, but was also in the stand by the inspector. Do we see a trend to want, another one, do we see a trend for the need for the public, or the public allows to want casino-type facilities? We don't, we don't see a trend for like wanted casinos. The nearest one is, in fact, Cardiff, which is by the bay which is near the football ground. You've got a casino there. Like I said, it tends to be you've got one in Swansea, I think it's booming, but it depends on the scale, the small-scale casinos, then you've got the much larger ones, you know, I think which is black pool, I put in a nomination for that as well, but there's certainly none within rural areas. So where do these small casino-type properties, like the one in Monmouth, fit into our scheme and policy, because that went through eventually on the inspector's advice? I think you referring to the adult game in centres rather than casino, casino is something yeah, totally different. With the adult gaming, it was brought to committee, it was approved by committee, we had objections at that time. So the application process was done correctly, and it was granted. So obviously it's something that is in place now. In order for, we would, you know, constantly sort of visit that venue, and then if it causes problems again, it can be reviewed like any other premises and brought back to committee if it's felt it's not run or managed properly, but at the moment there are no major issues with regards to that venue. Okay. Okay, thanks. We move now then to come to the assignment. How whether you want to come in, please? Chair, I was going to just move the document by see Councillor Watts wants to come in there. So I'll allow in there before I move it, is that okay, Chair? Yeah, that's fine. Thanks. So we've got Councillor Arman Watts. Do you want to come in? Yeah, thank you, Simon. I'm sorry, I have my hand up in there, not in the chat. I was just building on Councillor Edward's question, which I thought was quite good actually. And I guess, you know, as Councillors, we're always kind of slightly frustrated that we don't necessarily get the data. And without the data, sometimes we feel we're not informed. I know Christopher is concerned because obviously impacts significantly on his ward, you know, with regard to issues running in the, so he's been diligent, I think. So enough of the compliments. I guess it was, I'm trying to build up on then whether or not the Council officers felt that they had sufficient training with regard in the harms of gambling and, you know, would they feel confident that they were doing all that they can to raise a witness and support people via access, via, so for example, groups that work within HS, mental health issues, people who have addiction really to gambling. Those are my concern because I don't, with respect, I can't really respect to the officers. I haven't heard any kind of information about our understanding of how much of an impact that gambling does have on our community and whether or not there's any, you know, can I clear support organisations? We say we sign people on the website, but really we've got no understanding about, you know, the overall impact that say whether it's a day at the races or whether it's someone who's effectively gone into say the book is five times a day and spending their entire wages or whether it's online and that worries me significantly. I'm not sure, forgive me for saying this and I'm happy to be rebuffed by the officers that would be doing enough to be, to have a better understanding and the understanding would be built around data coming back about, you know, what prevention, how many people have then effectively gone to then seek assistance from whatever organisations. Does that make sense, Chair? OK, I think so. I hand over to Linda O'Gorman, the licensing officer. Yeah, I'll answer in sort of stages with regards to the officers, as you quite rightly, you know, sort of pointed out, things change, different mechanisms of gambling changes, you know, something new comes on the market all the time, you know, and it's advertising and television, there is a number of things on it. With regards to the online gambling, that's not, that is monitored by the gambling commission itself or not local authorities. With regards to the officers' training, we have had in-depth training, we have refresher training, so we have every year, so we do the online courses with regards to what is anything new that's been brought in by the gambling commission, what we should be inspecting at venues, we look at risk assessments, so if the unique risk assessment to that venue itself, how that venue is managing, if they've got somebody who's coming in and clearly see they are problem gamblers, so there's a number of things that we do with regards to training as such, and then we are looking part of this policy review as well, is that we have a local sort of Newport CAB that was ultimately in charge of sort of the element of problem gamblers where they can refer people to, but we are looking in this six-week period now we are going to be looking at a much wider element so that we can try and narrow it down because we do recognise, like yourself, Councillor Watts, that if people got problem gambling, they want to have local sort of help, not have to travel, sort of have something that they can sort of help them with, so there's a number of avenues that we will be looking at now as part of this review of this policy as well, what extra information can be given to venues itself, I think David wants to mention something as well, actually, sorry. Yeah, thanks Councillor Watts, I think this comes up on occasion in terms of that wider health and wellbeing, certainly in terms of keeping members informed, we did advise the number of bookies, etcetera across the patch when the fees report came forward recently, some members are citing on that, but in terms of obviously not fully trained on mental health and other issues, but we rely on our colleagues in our embeddance, it needs to come the other way as well, so obviously we deal with premises and how they try and control as best as you can, excuse me, at premises level. If we thought of particular issue and we do know those particular booking places on the high streets, then we would potentially refer it through to safeguarding, we have a safeguarding team, as you know, within social care, and obviously if in our embeddance, so we seem to have a lot of incidents of mental health relating to gambling, then we would liaise with our colleagues there in our embeddance, who are responsible for health clearly, to see what potentially we could do, as we would potentially do the obesity, so we can obviously be obesity experts, to use that example, so we would then say, look, we've got issue with takeaways, our role is with the premises, so similarly along the lines that you described, if there were issues that were flagged up in terms of mental health referring to gambling, then clearly we would respond to that request that we come in from our health colleagues at the health board, or public health wells, so we do what we can certainly, just to assure members, we do spend an awful lot of time with the race course, those high streets betting shops, the adult gaming centres, the place of mega services, so they certainly get proactive visits, we do work with them, we do ask those key questions as to what you do with somebody who regularly turns up in terms of often they will self-band themselves because they realise they've got issues themselves, but when we get into the health consequences, we're obviously not trained in finding examples of mental health, but we'd respond to any issues that would come our way, if that makes sense. Thank you. Thank you, Chair, if I may, Chair, my final supplementary, have we got any evidence where we've actually communicated, or the health board mental health services for communicating with us, and had any dialogue in the last 24 months, either way, so if there's been any kind of communication reciprocated involved in any specific concerns, because if we haven't, then I'd be concerned about it, and if there is, is it possible some future point for, you know, because we have to think we have a corporate responsibility, the public's well-being, to then look at potentially examples of where things have effectively gone wrong initially, and then they've been rectified, so there's some form of, if you like, effectively salvation from that problem. Dave, do you want to come in on this or Linda? Yeah, we do, we're close, we have a colleague from public health, even though they know a consultee like the Licensing Act, we have a grant licensing group as well, and she works closely with us on the makeup of this policy itself, so any issues, it's raised, and any avenues that's new that she can help us with, then we would actually sort of like signpost people as well or now, but we do work closely on a regular basis with a colleague from public health, with regards to gambling as well. So if we clear, there is no kind of definitive evidence as it stands, but you could probably go back and find it, right? Because we were close to you. Thank you, Jay. Okay, thanks. We go back then to Councillor Simon Haworth. You don't move to Simon, we can't hear you. May I move, Chair, that we take the document to its six-week consultation and then come back to full council, and let full council then move to adopt the amendment to this policy chair. Okay, thank you. It's a seconder for that proposal, Councillor Tonniesen has indicated, Chris Edwards. So okay, we are all happy to move, so that goes to consultation, and then we'll go to full council because obviously it is an important document. It does, as Councillor Watson pointed out, another people. It does have a big effect on people's lives, and sometimes an incredibly negative effect in terms of gambling addiction. So it is an important document, so that's moved, and that will go to consultation, come back to full council in due course. Councillor interjecting. Okay, we now move to item 7, exclusion of the press and public, because obviously this is a confidential issue, so I'll wait now for Richard Williams, MCC officer to switch off the live stream. [BLANKAUDIO]

Transcript

Wieckett, which is a election of chair. Can I have nominations for chair, please? Is that second date? Yes, chair. Are there any other nominations? I assume there are no other nominations. Therefore, Councillor Thomas, would you like to take the chair, please? Thank you. [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] I think we just, I'm just clarifying now with, with our solicitor here. You know, with Jane, we can't actually see you, so we don't know if you're there or not. So I'm afraid, unless you, you know, the camera comes in, then you won't be able to vote. But the first item will never vote, will it share? The first item will never vote, will it? No, okay, but just a cloudy fight. Okay, resolve it, but let me get the same thing. Okay, thank you, Councillor. Right, we go. Thank you. Any ideas how I get this result? I, I, I honestly don't know. I say one of the officers is looking at it at the moment, but obviously there's nothing that I can ask. Okay. Thank you. Okay, item six now then. Statement of gambling policy and proposals for casinos. No, it's Linda O'Gorman, the licensing officer wants to come into, just to tell us a little bit about this. Thanks. Yeah, thank you, Chair. The report's brought here today. It's, it's coming up time again. The three-year period where we have to reveal the statement of gambling policy. The reveal needs to be in place and the policy itself needs to be in place by 31st January 2025. So you'll note on 3.11 of the report is the proposed time scales to actually get this policy through. So today is the first draft of the policy. It's then proposed to go out for consultation between 1st June to 31st August, whereby if there's any tweaks to the policy or any changes that needs to be done or any recommendations. That will then be brought back to the licensing and regulatory committee on the 17th of September 2024 for you to view the final draft and any further proposals you wish to put in or agree to the recommendations of changes at that time. It then has to be rubber stamped then at full council on the 24th of October, then a legal notice in the paper, then the publication, and then it could commence in 31st January 2025. So even though it seems quite a way off, if you look at the time scales, it has to be sort of coming here today really before we sort of kick off that consultation period as per previous years. You'll also note in the report, there is a section on regarding the casinos and we've always passed a resolution at full council that we wouldn't entertain the idea of casinos at present. There isn't any available, but we still have to make that decision at full council so that if one did become available and by the gambling commission, that we would have that opportunity then whether we want to proceed and make an application for a casino or not. So you still have to pass a resolution which is then placed within the gambling policy itself. So that's the reason why this report has been brought here today. There are a number of changes you'll note as well in 3.7 that the gambling commission are reviewing the codes of practice. However, they have said that this will not affect the policy itself, given the details as in the policy, which was initially done by a template and then it's been added to as the use progress. That's clarified in 3.7 so it shouldn't delay the process of legally getting the policy in place by 31st January 2025, which is the end date basically that has to be in buy. Thank you. Okay. Thanks. And I can see the chain. No, you are on screen now and we can see you loading clear with your reflective jacket on. We know they're there. Right. I'm glad this result. Comments now then. Number one, I've got Councillor Alliston deal. Do you want to come in, please. Thank you, chair, and thanks for the introduction to the, the report. I really just wanted to ask if there are any other substantive changes to what must presumably be in in Wales, a relatively standard approach to this. I know the, the issue with casinos. Is there anything else that is substantively unique to the mama show policy that would not be consistent with others across Wales. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. It is a consistent sort of policy and we do work closely with our great colleagues as well because of the nature of, you know, when they have to do risk assessments for the locality. For individual premises. So that's what we tend to work and grant it then goes past to the Wales group. So it is, you know, quite widespread really with the policy itself. And the gambling template was initially done by the gambling commission as a recommendation for all local authorities who hasn't deviated much from that. There may be areas that we need to sort of check throughout this consultation period with regards to any legal tweaks when it's referring to other sort of legislation within the policy. So that's something we'll be looking more thoroughly during the six week period and if there's any further recommendations that we want some of the unique form or misha. If anything comes in, it gets quite widespread. The consultation, it goes to all those currently licensed. It goes to sort of gambling groups and sort of, you know, sort of the gamma care and that sort of avenue. So it's quite widely consulted upon. Okay, thanks. Thanks for that. We're going to then to Councillor Christopher Edwards. Do you want to come in. Thank you chair. I've got a couple of questions on the policy itself. But before that, obviously, some of us remember the last time it went to full council and the policy was adopted. How do curiosity, first of all, though, has there been any interest or applications since it was last adopted in regard to casinos. Or are we simply known as a no casino county, if you like. Just that we know as a no casino county, but it's we haven't had any interest or saying why don't we have it within our area. It tends to be more focused on city areas. Anything rather than sort of rural areas that they got the current sort of casinos in. Okay, thanks for that. My main questions in the policy 1.5 and the consultation. It mentions and the bodies representing residents in the county. Could you name an example of this, for instance, is it sort of groups rate into addiction schools, youth clubs. And my second question under 1.7 interested parties, I just want to. If you can clarify, there are three definitions of the interested party is a local school classified as an interested party under this criteria. And it mentions that the, I think the phrase close to the premises as well. I wondered what you would define as close. In other words, is it next door? Is it the same street? Is it around the corner? Is it the same town? Thank you. Yeah, I'll try and answer both of the questions that you've raised there. We say close. There is, as with the licensing act, there's no like vicinity test as such. I mean, if this can be proven, there's going to be a detrimental effect if this was in the area. That's something that would be considered and then brought back to committee anyway. Is to give an idea that we wouldn't sort of look to have stuff that may be detrimental to say a school nearby or children because we're not there to sort of promote gambling for children. So it's a number of elements that we would look at and it would be brought to committee then with regards to the policy itself. With regards to the consultation, it is quite widespread. We sort of work amongst a number of local authorities to say what sort of groups that you could have gambling groups. Or like I said, you know, advisory, when people got problem gambling, there could be associations for like say the race course and various things like that. You know, so it is quite widespread to have councillors and local councillors, town councils. So we try to get the message out is on the website as well. So we try to get the message out as much as we can. And we send you a comms thing saying, you know, your opportunity to look at the policy and, you know, big comment if you want to on it. So we try and get as far as we can out there. And it also goes to those currently licensed as well, be it a small raffle holder in a local church because that comes under the gambling remit to the much larger scale like the race course or betting shops. So it is quite wide. Thank you. Okay, thanks. Can I ask people, I can see two people on screen with their hands up, but can we only with the chat hands up because then it comes in sort of sequential order. Otherwise, I'm trying to pick up, you know, on screen. We go next now then to Councillor Tony Eason. Thank you. Thank you for your presentation. And it's coming back to the casino aspect. We are subject to went police as a county area of Gwent. Are there any casinos in the rest of Gwent, Cathedral Newport, for example. And in the recent past, we had the question mark about on street casino type places, like one that we turned over licensed in, but it was all turned out in the standby the inspector. Do we see a trend to want another one? Do we see a trend for the need for the public or the public allows to want casino type facilities? We don't see a trend for like wanted casinos. The nearest one is in fact Cardiff, which is by the bay, which is near the football ground. You've got a casino there. Like I said, it tends to be you've got one in Swansea. I think it's booming him, but it depends on the scale. I think the small-scale casinos, then you've got the much larger ones, which is black pool, I put in a nomination for that as well, but it's certainly not within rural areas. So where do these small casino type properties, like the one in Montmouth, fit into our scheme and policy, because that went through eventually on the inspector's advice? I think you are referring to the adult gaming centres rather than casino. Casino is something totally different. With the adult gaming, it was brought to committee. It was approved by committee. We had objections at that time. So the application process was done correctly and it was granted. So obviously it's something that is in place now. We thought we would constantly sort of visit that venue and then if it causes problems, again, it can be reviewed like any other premises and brought back to committee if it's felt it's not run or managed properly. But at the moment, there are no major issues with regards to that venue. Okay. Okay, thanks. We move now then to Councillor Saimin. Madam Chair, do you want to come in, please? Chair, I was going to just move the document by see Councillor Watts wants to come in there. So I'll allow him there before I move it. Is that okay, Chair? Yeah, that's fine. Thanks. So we've got Councillor Ramin Watts. Do you want to come in? Yeah, thank you, Simon. I'm sorry. I have my hand up in the chat. I was just building on Councillor Edward's question, which I thought was quite good, actually. And I guess, you know, as Councillors, we're always kind of slightly frustrated that we don't necessarily get the data. And without the data, sometimes we feel we're not informed. I know Christopher is concerned because obviously impacts significantly on his ward. With regard to issues running in the, so he's been diligent, I think. So enough of the compliments. I guess it was, I'm trying to build up on then whether or not the Council officers felt that they had sufficient training. With regard in the harms of gambling and, you know, would they feel confident that they were doing all that they can to raise a witness and support people. via access via so for example groups that work within HS mental health issues, people who have addiction really to gambling. Those are my concerns because I don't with respect that I can't really respect to the officers. I haven't heard any kind of information about our understanding of how impact how much of an impact that gambling does have on our community and whether or not there's any, you know, can I clear support. Organizations, we say we sign people on the on the website, but really, we've got no understanding about, you know, the overall impact that say whether it's a day at the races or whether it's someone who's effectively gone into say, the book is five times a day and spending their entire wages or whether it's online. And that worries me significantly. I'm not sure forgive me for saying this and I'm happy to be rebuffed by the officers that we've been doing enough to be. To have a better understanding. And the understanding would be built around data coming back about, you know, what preventions, how many people have then effectively gone to then seek assistance from whatever organization. Does that make sense chair. Okay, I think so hand over to to Linda O'Gorman, the licensing officer. Yeah, answer in sort of stages with regards to the officers, as you quite rightly, you know, sort of pointed out things change different mechanisms of gambling changes, you know, something new comes on the market, all the time, you know, and it's advertised on television. There is a number of things on it with regards to the online gambling. That's not that is monitored by the gambling commission itself or not local authorities. With regards to the officers training, we have had in depth training. We have refresher training. So we've got every year. So we do the online courses with regards to what is anything new that's been brought in by the gambling commission, what we should be inspecting at venues. We look at risk assessment. So if the unique risk assessment to that venue itself, how that venue is managing. If they got somebody who's coming in and clearly see they are problem gamblers. So there's a number of things that we do with regards to training as such. And then we are looking part of this policy review as well, is that we have a local sort of new port CAB that was ultimately in charge of sort of the element of problem gamblers where they can refer people to. But we are looking in this six week period. Now we are going to be looking at a much wider element so that we can try and narrow it down because we do recognize like yourself. Councillor Watts that, you know, if people got problem gambling, they want to have local sort of help not have to travel, you know, sort of have something that they can sort of help them with. So there's a number of avenues we'll be looking at now as part of this review of this policy as well, what extra information can be given to venues itself. I think David wants to mention something as well, actually. Yeah, thanks Councillor Watts. Yeah, I think this comes up on occasion in terms of that wider where health and wellbeing. Certainly in terms of keeping members informed, we did advise the number of bookies, et cetera, across the patch when the fees report came forward recently. Some members are citing on that. But in terms of obviously not fully trained on mental health and other issues, but we rely on our colleagues and our embeddons, it needs to come the other way as well. So obviously we deal with premises and how they try and control as best they can, excuse me, at premises level. If we thought of a particular issue and we do know those particular booking places on the high streets, then we would potentially refer it through to safeguarding. We have a safeguarding team, as you know, within social care. And obviously if in our embeddons, so we seem to have a lot of incidents of mental health relating to gambling, then we would liaise with our colleagues there in our embeddons who are responsible for health clearly to see what potentially we could do. As we would potentially have the obesity, so we can obviously be obesity experts to use that example. So we would then say, look, we've got issue with takeaways, our role is with the premises. So simply along the lines that you described, if there were issues that were flagged up in terms of mental health referring to gambling, then clearly we respond to that request that we come in from our health colleagues at the health board or public health wells. So we do what we can certainly. Just to assure members, we do spend an awful lot of time with the race course, those high streets betting shops, the adult gaming centres. They place a mega services. So they certainly get proactive visits. We do work with them. We do ask those key questions as to what you do with someone who regularly turns up in terms of often they will self ban themselves because they realise they got issues themselves. But when we get into the health consequences, we're obviously not trained in finding examples of mental health, but we'd respond to any issues that would come our way if that makes sense. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Chair. If I, if I made you my final supplementary. Yeah. Have we got any evidence where we've actually communicated or the health board mental health services for communicating with us and had any dialogue in the last 24 months. Either way, so if there's been any kind of communication reciprocated involved in any specific concerns, because if we haven't, then I'd be concerned about it. And if there is, is it possible some future point for, you know, because we have to think we have a corporate responsibility, the public's well being to then look at potentially examples of, you know, we're, we're things that have effectively gone wrong. Initially, and then they've been rectified. So there's some form of, if you like effectively salvation from that problem. Dave, do you want to come in on this or Linda? Yeah, we do. We're close. We have a colleague from public health, even though they know a consultee, like the licensing acts, we have a grant licensing group as well. And she works closely with us on the makeup of this policy itself. So any issues that's raised and any avenues that's new that she can help us with, then we would actually sort of like signpost people as well on that. But we do work closely on a regular basis with a colleague from public health, with regards to gambling as well. So, so, so if we clear, there is no, there is no kind of definitive evidence as it stands, but you could probably go back and find it, right? Because we were close to. Thank you, Jay. All right. Okay, thanks. We go back then to Councillor Simon Howarth. You don't move to Simon, we can't hear you. May I move chair that we take the document to its six week consultation and then come back to full council and let full council then move to adopt the amendment to this policy chair. Okay, thank you. It's a seconder for that proposal. Councillor Tonysen has indicated and Chris Edwards. So, okay. We are all happy to move. So that goes to consultation and then we'll go to full council because obviously it is an important document. It does, as Councillor Watson pointed out, another people. It does have a big effect on people's lives and sometimes an incredibly negative effect in terms of gambling addiction. So, you know, it is an important document. So, that's moved and that will go to consultation and come back to full council in due course. Thanks. Okay. We now move to item seven, exclusion of the press and public because obviously this is a confidential issue. So, wait now for Richard Williams, the MCC officer to switch off the live street. [BLANK_AUDIO]