Transcript

Hello. Welcome to this afternoon's licence in subcommittee. Can we have a nomination for chair please? [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] Okay, good afternoon everybody. Welcome to this afternoon's subcommittee. I'm sure about now we all know each other actually, but while doing the first place, I'll go from my left and we'll go round and everybody introduced themselves. So do you want to go ahead? Thank you Chair. I'm Lorraine Simpson. I'm the Licency Manager for the Council. I'm Dominick Heaps, Licency Officer. Sergeant Craig Carmichael, as a sadly licensing department. At Nicklin Island, Constable Motorside Police Licensing Department. Tom Glover, bar 44. Councillor Keiteler, Newton Eastward. Councillor Jeanette Banks, Moss Bank Board. [BLANKAUDIO] Actually, nearly a senior solicitor to the council. [BLANKAUDIO] How do you adjust the council to advance chair for today? Okay, thank you. Okay, just before we go on to the agenda, can I just ask everybody if you've got phones or iPads to make sure they're on silent, please? [BLANKAUDIO] Okay, item two on the agenda, then it's sort of the meeting held on the 25th of April, 2024. Can I set those as correct, please? Great. >> Thank you. Item three, decorations of interest from members, are there any? No. Exit item four then, determination over temporary event notice, bar 44. Burnt, you want to comment? Thank you, Chair. So I'll just briefly run through the procedures for the meeting, for the purposes of the public broadcast. So I will shortly give a brief overview of the report that you've all had a copy of. Then members have an opportunity to ask me any questions, if there are any questions on the report. Then it will come to yourself, Tom, to give your information today to committee, and then they have the opportunity to ask you any questions. And then it will come to yourselves as the police, and so you will give your evidence, and then the committee can ask you any questions. And then we'll work in reverse for the summing up, so it will come back to yourselves as the police. If there's anything you wish to add to sum up, and then back with yourself, Tom. And the procedure will be then that the committee will normally pass an emotion to deliberating private. And the easiest way to explain this is that everybody from me and Tom, when this way leaves the room, and the committee deliberate in private with the legal advisor. Following that, we'll give you an email decision as soon as we find out the decision of the committee. Hopefully today, if not tomorrow morning, and then our full decision letter will follow in five working days. Okay, I think that's everything. Okay, so we're here to look at the determination of a temporary event notice, which has been submitted by Bio-44. So the temporary event notice has attracted an objection notice from Merseyside Police, hence the reason for the subcommittee today. So the 10 was received by a licensee on the 29th of April, and a copy of that is attached to Appendix 2. The reason for the 10 noted on the form was that the venue would be playing host to a celebrity DJ for a special event. The 10 seeks the extension of the sale of alcohol from the premises and the provision of regulated entertainment on the premises from all 300 to all 500 hours on the 27th of May. And that's it from my presentation chair. If there are any questions on the report, I'll think of members. Thanks, Ryan. Any questions to all members? No? No? Tom, are you okay with Tom, by the way? Yeah, okay, go ahead then. Yeah, I don't have a great deal to add at this point, basically, as Lorraine stated, we submitted a 10 application on the 29th of April for a celebrity DJ event. The application was between 0-300 and 0-500, although the application did state if Merseyside Police were happy, we would negotiate a 4am on that rather than a 5am. I received an email from Lorraine on the 29th asking for further information relating to the event, a lot of which was already included in the application. For example, we was asked what the event will be, as stated, it was a celebrity DJ event. The times of the event which were already included in the application and whether there was any ticket being taken place in the event which confirmed that there is none, if there were that would have been included in the 10's application. I was also asked to confirm the identity of the celebrity DJ. I did explain to Lorraine that Stanstil is the same, that is commercially sensitive at this stage. So, we withhold that information as it is commercially sensitive. However, I would like to ask officers and the committee is, I'd like to make it plain whether how you determine what a celebrity is, how would it be measured, whether the committee in question, I wouldn't expect the committee to know necessarily who the celebrity was. So, I would ask why that determines whether an event goes ahead or not, whether the police know who the celebrity is at that time. And as I say, I would test what their criteria are, whether that is that celebrity status. I just want to jump in just to advise the committee here that whether or not it's a celebrity who's playing isn't for them to consider today. They've got to make the decision on the 10 based on the licensing objective. So, in this case, because the objections on crime and disorder, just to advise you that that's what you're considering. So, it wouldn't be just because I was asked that of the council. Okay, Lorraine, do you want to jump in on that bit? Yeah, I think as I said too, I mean, that's in the report, Tom. Yeah, yeah. It's the other response that I gave you about that we don't, it's not policy, it's not licensing policy, it's not. These are operational policies that we use. So, licensing along with lots of other services is a part of the event safety advisory group for the borough. So, it's routine when these applications come in about events to ask for further information. Now, when that information is given, the police and the other emergency services, but in this case, the police will take that information away and work within the, their own links and sources and whatever to decide whether they think that will impact or create a crowd or whether there's been any problems in another area or whether that's slightly to attract significantly more people than you would normally have, which you would expect for the celebrity. Yeah, absolutely. That's the entire reason for asking. Yeah, no, that's fine, and that's fine. I understand that completely, I do. Obviously, just in response to being asked those questions, that's why I wanted to stay. Yeah, and as I said to you, that's routine with every application of the licensing that's for an event. Because as you'll know, Tom, because you've filled a lot of the forms in, you don't leave a lot of space for you to provide information such as that, so, yeah. So, in short, yeah, it was just you requested that information to pass on to the police so they could then make a decision on whether they would have to be asked. And that's my point. That's what I'm basically asking the police based on the identity of the who the celebrity DJ is. How does that justify whether the longer hours are warranted or not? But yeah, like I said, I don't have much more to add at this stage, really. The TENS application does seem to include most, if not all, of the information that was required for the event. OK, thank you very much, Tom. All right, any questions from councils, please? No? Can I ask you? Of course. Tom, are you actually saying tickets for this event? No, it's not a ticket to the event. No. So, are people just going to turn up at the door? They are, yeah, same as any given weekend. How many people are you expected? Well, no more than capacity allows. It's the same as any given weekend when you have events such as Halloween, bank holidays that are always much busier than other events. They are just managed on a proactive risk assessment basis. If 500 people turn up and we allow 300 or 200 of those in, then we manage that as a venue. I'm just wondering, if you, obviously you don't want to disclose who the celebrity is. Yep. And by no means am I saying that, or do you know me if you did? But I was just wondering now, how are you going about putting the somebody out there that is a celebrity if you're not selling tickets or advertising at this point? Because it's not necessarily to make loads of money on ticket sales. It's as an extra boost to the venue, as an extra. Outside of what we offer as a resident entertainers, it's just an extra boost to the venue, really, rather than it being a show stopping thousands of people descending on the venue. OK, thanks very much. Cheers. OK, we'll move forward. Oh, sorry, Councillor Ginnett Banks. Yeah. You're saying it's commercially sensitive? That's right, yeah. You know, but why will you not be telling people who it is or who it is? Yeah, at this stage, it's commercially sensitive. I'm surprised, because if you want more people to come and you want things, I'm just surprised that you're not already advertising it. Absolutely, yeah, but obviously we can't advertise the event until this today's over, really. OK. OK, hey, OK over there. Yeah, OK, we'll carry on then and we'll come to the police now. All right, thank you. Thank you, Chair. I think I do address that in here. And if I don't, I will address. I think it's in his beta, I wrote it last week. So I can't find it at the moment, but probably when we go through it. So good afternoon, Chair and members of the committee. Mosse, please have made representations to the application for the grant of a temporary event notice of bar 44. Westfield streets and tell-ins on the section 100 of the licensing act of 2003. The application has been made for bar 44 to run on the standard temporary event notice from three to five on the 27th of May of 2024. It will be a Merseyside Police's application today for the temporary event notice to be refused in four. A Merseyside police have considered the application and are of the opinion that granting this would undermine the license as an objective of the prevention of crime and disorder. In relation to the temporary event notices in just at the background for the 10s, in February of 2024, manager bar 44 required for four standard 10s for the 25th of February and the 1st of April. Please subject to these temporary event notices under the objective of crime and disorder. And the hearing took place on the 13th of February. In St. Tellingstown Hall and films of a subcommittee. The result of the committee was the event should not take place and a gave a counter notice for each event as is necessary for prevention of crime and disorder and appeal has been lodged in relation to this matter. On the 21st of March, Mr Glover applied for temporary event notice to run from three to five on the 7th of April. Merseyside police put in an objection for this application and again on the ground of prevention of crime and disorder. I was informed by St. Telling's council that this was in fact a late 10 due to Easter public holidays and a counter notice was served hence no requirements for a committee. On the 27th of March of this year, Mr Glover applied for a temporary event notice to run three to five on the 6th of May. Merseyside police objected to this event or temporary event notice under the objective again of preventing crime and disorder. A hearing took place on the 11th of April in front of a subcommittee. The result of which was a counter notice again was served. We are now yet at another licensing subcommittee hearing for an application for a 10 for this occasion on the 27th of May. I have provided to you today a bundle of evidence. The first part of the bundle is provided by Chief Inspector John Smith. I believe that this is still relevant and unfortunately Mr. Spiff has just been on a period of annual leave and unable to add to this report so you may see that the report pretty much stopped around the February time. Mr. Smith's been away. However, I have added additional evidence in relation to the 10s that have been applied for in St. Ellen's Centre and I'll note to the police as D1 into the area we call the city or the town centre. From the 12th of February 24th to the 3rd of May, along with incidents from December to May 2024. The objection to the temporary event notice has come after looking at the crime within the nighttime economy, especially later into the evening and bar 44 as not being singled out in relation to these objections. After consultation with St. Helen's Command Team, please Command Team, taking legal advice on the decision has been made that any temporary event notice to go after 3 o'clock in the town centre area is highly likely to be objected to. If I may refer to you to Chief Inspector Smith's statement, which is bundle on yours is 27 to 32. Mr. Smith has been posted to St. Ellen since January of 2020 as an inspector and during this time he has been responsible for operational policing in the nighttime economy. Mr. Smith believes the grantor sub-10 would undermine the objective of preventing crime disorder and add further to the cumulative impact in this area. The D1/1/1 beat, which covers Westfield Street and bar 44, suffers from a significant number of incidents of anti-social behaviour crime disorder and alcohol is a contributing factor. On Bumble page 33 is JS01, which shows 12 months of violence figures up to February of 24 for the St. Ellen's area. There were 607 violent crimes. The next highest being 168 less crimes, which is a significant difference. And drilling down further, apart from D1/1/1, having the most violent crimes recorded, Westfield Street sits within the beat with the highest volume of violent crime of 74 incidents over a 12-month period. Furthermore, 18 incidents, the equivalent to 25 per cent of these incidents, have taken place between three and five in the mornings of Saturday and Sunday. We can clearly see there's a peak in violent crime, and this is shown in Exhibit JSO2, which is on page 34. There's a regular police presence in Westfield Street, and resources are on duty till four o'clock. As part of the course shifts, from four o'clock onwards, there are limited resources, covering town centre, and the police who remain on duty are responsible for covering the entirety of St. Ellen's area. Hence, such extent it operates now as also places are straying upon police resources. And I think we've discussed before that until four o'clock, but that means going home at four o'clock, they're not in the city in the streets till four, they're probably out till about half three, so that they can get off, decays, and go home at four. You've also got the fact that police officers being out in the town centre, they will get tied up with dealing with incidents, or arrests, or constant jobs, or the jobs, so they will deplete as the night goes on as well. It's not that the same number of officers at start will finish at four o'clock on the streets. Chief Inspector Smith has reviewed both the data and the practices in place, and now attends upon placing a greater emphasis upon reviewing the ten's applications, stating he has a responsibility to act in the best interest of St. Ellen's residence, and ensure a safe use of the nighttime economy. He believes that to grant such a ten places, residents at greater risk have become victim of violent crime. Westfield Street also sits within a serious violence hotspot. Such locations have been identified for analysis of service violence data. Independent, home office-funded analysts have identified 12 such hotspots within the Merseyside area, with St. Helens just being one of them. Due to the success that they have found in this year's initiative, the home office has now increased it to 25 locations across Merseyside, and along with serious violence, they've now included antisocial behaviour for the amount of work that's been done in these areas. Due to this, the police have provided with home office funding to implement a problem-solving approach. Previously funded has paid for improving the lights, CCTV coverage, along with purchasing of knife ones for door staff, reducing the use of tens in this area is another opportunity to reduce the risk and tackle and prevent serious violence. Bundle page 35 to 36 have other charts which will show that Westfield Street is the number one for serious violence in the whole of St. Helens over this 12-month period. It is Mr. Smith's assertion that the extension of those hours, if it be permanent or temporary, would be counterproductive to the work that the police and other agencies have undertaken and continue to do so to make the area a safer place for patrons, such as increasing licence in hours, in his opinion, contributes to increased risk to the wider community and a greater likelihood of alcohol and drug-related violence. Merseyside police, along with the community's safety, have also submitted evidence in support of the cumulative impact for St. Helens, which was approved by the Council, and focuses specifically on four streets of which Westfield Street is one of them. The application for this standard 10 is slightly different from previous ones objected to, as it states, the venue will be playing host to a celebrity DJ for the special event. Pays 41 of the bundle, you will find an email trail from the Wayne Simpson from St. Helens Council, have asked Mr. Glover for further information, including the name of this celebrity DJ. No reply was received within the next couple of days for Mr. Glover, and hence, on behalf of Merseyside police, I put in an objection. Following Mr. Glover receiving the objection notice, he emailed me stating that the name of the DJ is commercially sensitive at this time, and hence, and on the wiser. I understand that Mr. Glover has pushed this 10 in, as Merseyside police have allowed them to the bar to extend their hours till four o'clock on two occasions, due to having a pre-book celebrity event. This was back in March of '24. We have not received any similar 10s since, and we are highly likely to object if they do apply, and the point we were saying about this is that premises had already booked a celebrity and paid expense for the celebrity, prior to the time that we started objecting to the 10s. They wanted till five, but they were willing to reduce to four. Merseyside police accepted that on the fact they had worked with us, there was a celebrity which they had already paid for and organized for the events, and they were willing to reduce their 10 from five to four. But they were also of the understanding that it was because they had already pre-booked before we started refusing them. The main difference, as I've just said, that the celebrity was already booked prior to police objecting to 10s, and we had more information. They had told us who the celebrity was. They had advertised it. We were able to see this on social media sites, that it was there and up front. To assist you in your decision-making today, page 43 of the police disclosure is a breakdown of incidents that have been sign posters that are occurring at or within the vicinity of bar 44 since December of 23, so the last probably five months or so. Bumble pages 45 to 79 provides the incident logs and a statement for these incidents. So the one page is just a very much easy guide for you, but there's a lot more information if you wish to read it. In relation to those incidents of the 9th of December, 1.20 in the morning, reports of an aggressive female under the influence of alcohol resulting the female being taken home by the police. On the 24th of December, 4.22 in the morning, a male threatens to stab bar 44 door staff and subsequently detained by the police. He ran off, he was searched, no weapon was found on him, but he was found in possession of class A drugs and he was arrested and charged with possession of class A and drunk him disorderly in a public place. That male initially was actually red dotted with a taser as he ran off in the police and then was detained. Clearly the officer this time had information to suggest he had a knife on him. He red dotted in, he kept him on the floor of Intelli, another officer could come to an assist and that's when they found drugs on him. On the 24th of December, 2023, 1 a.m. a female being drinking in various premises, including bar 44, became incapacitated and was hospitalized. It came in as a spiking, but even if we can't prove a spiking, we're saying that the level of intoxication for this lady was too high. On the 27th of December, 448 in the morning, reported disorderly behavior involving a group of females fighting outside bar 44. The females left the area prior to the police's arrival. The 1st of Jan at 151, male recorded extremely drunk was pushed away by door staff after being refused entry. The male tried to enter the premise again was pushed away with two hands and it ended up lowered to the floor. The 3rd of February 2017, door staff detained a male on the floor, refused entry and found in possession of drugs. And on the 3rd of March, 1 minute past 1, reported violence that left bar 44, was assaulted by another male, causing the male to be unconscious and bleeding from the head. And then the 10th of March at 430, reported violence as a male was hitting the female outside bar 44. On this occasion, there was an area that says, Mother, police, but neither party were found. On the 1st of April, 420 in the morning, reported anti-social behavior, where an intoxicated male refused to leave the bar and they did leave following police advice. And finally, on the 1st of April, 530 in the morning and they accepted this bar was closed by this point, but there was a reported two males aggressive towards police on Westfield Street. Further patrols were requested and it was reported the one male was throwing items in the street, refusing to leave the bar. It became confrontational, started fighting with the police. Both males were parvered and invested for drunken disorderly. The bar was closed at this time. However, it just shows that people are still out in town centre, intoxicated and volatile. And the chances are it's because they've been able to stay out drinking until five o'clock. The data shows five out of these 10 recorded incidents between December and April occurred between three and five o'clock. So 50% of those were between the two in this time. The data also shows that four out of the 10 incidents involved in toxication, a minimum of four. That's ones that we can actually say that says they are drunk. With two of these occurring between three and five, four of the incidents are potentially assaults. Two of the 10 incidents are recorded as violent crimes and one of which is at 430 outside bar 44. In relation to the incidents disclosed, some of these incidents may not be the fault of bar 44, or the culpability of the management or the staff. And we are not saying it's their fault. Most of these premises, as you hear, most of the incidents are happening near to the doorway or just outside in the vicinity of the premises, but are connected to predominantly customers of the premises. They do show violence. They do show drunkenness, public order offenses in and around licensed premises, half of which are after the hours of three o'clock. Bundle page 11 to 13 is a breakdown of temporary event notices that have been applied for in the town center area of D1 since the 12th of February. There have been 22 applications made. There are 13 applications on the page that you will see are not highlighted. And these are for several different events and their finishing times are before three o'clock. And they have not received police's objections. So we haven't objected to tens when they have been prior to three o'clock for legitimate events in the lights. Out of the nine highlighted tens, which is identifies, they are to extend hours beyond three o'clock. Only two of those have been granted by the police. And the rationale for this has already been addressed in the speech. The fact that that bar had already paid out for a celebrity to come. Worked with us and offered to reduce it to four from five. And that they wouldn't do it again. And they haven't done it again. We have not had another application from them to go after three o'clock since those two events. In conclusion, Chair, there's a side police are working to make the nighttime economy in St. Ellen's Safer. Reducing violence, disorder, and alcohol related antisocial behavior. We feel that three o'clock is late enough for the town center. And this is supported by chapter four of the St. Ellen's statements of licensing policy and its framework, referred to on licensed premises being licensed till three on a Friday, Saturday and a bank holiday Sunday. This is being regularly exceeded by several bars when they are using their 12 special days or occasions on their premises licenses or temporary event notices or indeed both. It is something that we have been discussing or has been discussed with St. Ellen's police at a command team level for quite some time. And we're saying that due to the level of crime and disorder in the town center and the fact that it is recognized as a serious violence hotspot now with the home office and et cetera, that three o'clock is late enough. And we are opposing granting extensions predominantly by way of a temporary event notice. And finally, may I refer you to points of the 182 guidance and only 2.1, but the licensing authority should see the police as the main source of advice on crime and disorder, along with section 7.6, 7.32 and 7.34, which all refer to temporary event notice legislation and also your own St. Ellen's statements are licensed in policy. Thank you for your time today.

• Okay, thank you. Any questions at all? Council?
• Thank you, Chair. I forgot to just go back to the statement from the Chief Inspector. Picking upon me said there is no intent on placing greater emphasis upon reviewing the applications, the 10 applications. That in combination with, you mentioned a couple of times of the funding from the home office, do you feel that that is a good approach to reducing the crime and disorder in the 10th century at that late, those late hours?
• Yeah, I think we've mentioned this before, that the system of premises using special days and using temporary event notices to extend their hours till five o'clock or some of that has been done for many, many years. And it's just sort of, we've looked at it over the years and said, well, why did we do that? 'Cause we've all used on that. And I think we've now got to a point where we've looked at it more and said, well, the question isn't that, the question is, well, should we be doing that? Should we continue to do so? And when you look at the crime figures, the crime figures would suggest that it is not a good thing to do. And obviously with preventative policing and problem solving policing, coming back as a big thing, especially in Merseyside now, we've actually got a preventative unit looking at crime prevention, the home office now providing an analytical tools and saying, here's money. I think it's two and a half million pounds that've given Merseyside Police this year in order to try to reduce serious violence antisocial behavior in hotspot areas. These hotspot areas now have increased from 12 to 25. They don't just cover your nighttime economies or though most of your nighttime economies are covered on them, because there is more violence where there is a nighttime economy. We don't get away from that. But they do cover other areas that, for other reasons, social domesticate reasons, there's problems. And what we can do, and clearly we are putting a lot out in terms of, I think, even last week or this week, possibly St. Allen's different departments including the police, including the design of crime units and having, are doing walkabouts of the city. And I think they're doing the same all over these areas. Looking for ways that they can be reduced if it be better lighting, better CCTV, et cetera, et cetera. And I think this goes hand in hand that, if we're saying look, St. Allen's town center should have a nighttime economy. They have got a nighttime economy, but it's till three o'clock. There's not a license in the town that, after three o'clock. So clearly, we're saying, well, that's acceptable. We police to that, and it's till three o'clock. But we are finding, because of the number of incidents that we've had afterwards, that we're now looking at the temporary event notice culture, should we say, of allowing them and saying, no, these notices now are gonna be stopped, or at least reduced greatly, because of the risk it takes and how much crime that we are having in those areas. And I think it is starting to have an effect. Clearly, crime figures will take some time to come through to show the effect, but from what I can gather from the home office analysts, on those hotspot locations from last year, everywhere has gone down, across Merseyside in those 12 zones, because of the emphasis of prevention and what they've done on it. And that's why they've now said, right, you can have a load more money, and we're increasing the areas, because you've done such a good job this year, we want to keep going, and it's looking outside the box and looking at what we can do to reduce serious crime, serious violence, and antisocial behavior.
• Can I just ask, just for clarification, then, it's not in particular part 44, well, you're saying this crime and this order within a certain area, not only being Westwood Street. That correct, we'll just...
• I'm saying that it's crime and this order within the D1 beat of Merseyside, please. Class is D1, which is the town centre of St. Helens. There are some major streets with the bars, Westfield Street, Omskirk Street, et cetera, and the likes of that. It's that area. It is not the bar, as said on the last one, the bar wasn't even open. When that incident happened, I reviewed the CCTV footage for that only last week, and it's outside. You can see bar 44 in the background, it's closed. But my opinion is, well, these people are drunk in the streets, the police haven't to deal with them, and they're here at five o'clock, or they're there about, because they are being out in the nighttime economy till then. So it's not aimed at bar 44 in the same respect when I've looked at the tens. Two out of 13's been granted, and they had ones that was already booked, and willing to work with us to reduce their hours to four, and now they're not doing that anymore. So I think the majority of bars have accepted that we want to see how it goes and do a three o'clock across the town, clearly with exception of their special days, which they still have. And clearly, the figures so far are looking like it is. It is reducing, especially the serious violence hotspot areas. I haven't got the figures for Centellans, but I know all of them have reduced in some capacity, and Centellans is included in that.
• Any more questions at all? Okay. Okay, we'll come to the sum went up then. So again, your turn to pre-pre-sum up, if you want to say anything?
• I'd be happy to know it would be extremely short. I like this speech. I've always just the point that I've given examples of alcohol related incidents of violence, predominantly violence between three and five. Around Bar 44, around Westfield Street, and around Centellans town, Centellans itself. And it is concerning, we do believe it undermines the prevention of crime and disorder, objective, and due to this, we do request that this 10 be refused. Keep it as simple as that. Thank you.
• Okay.
• Thank you, okay. John, it's time for you to sum up.
• Yeah, thank you. Yeah, a couple of things really. Obviously, as Craig just said then, that two of the 10s have been approved based on, they had a pre-booked celebrity DJ. I'm not sure the accuracy of that, whether someone's booked, paid for and advertised a celebrity DJ without actually having the 10s approved, seems a bit wild, but yeah, it just seems a bit out there, to be honest. And yeah, I would just, the only things I would like to ask is, whether the identity with most said police of a celebrity does change the fact. We have requested five AM, but as I said in the application, we would be willing to accept four AM, as other venues have allowed. But yeah, I have nothing further to add.
• Okay, John, could I just ask, John? I mean, what are your thoughts on what the police have put forward as a grammar disorder within?
• We're hearing a lot of unsubstantiated statistics from the home office that it's a high crime area. I don't think we've been producing, so then, as you've just said, then you don't have the figures or data to hand with that. I don't think we've ever been produced with the home office statistics. And Craig just said, then, last year, it seems to be a reduction, and which is why they've had more investment from the home office to kind of carry on that work. But last year, 10s were still being approved, so if there has been a reduction during that time, then it's not necessarily direct correlation to the temporary event notices. And I appreciate that, whilst the police are saying, if people weren't out after 3 AM, then there would be less crime, et cetera. That may be the case, but you've still got several venues that have special days that will be open till 5 AM throughout the year, so you're not gonna get away from that 5 AM instances or just by saying we're refusing 10s.
• Okay, somebody, it is part of the licensing policy. That crime and disorder is one of the main.
• Absolutely, yeah. Okay, I just wanted to know what you thought.
• Okay, I didn't see anyone else from anybody before.
• Just, you have got a lot of extra days.
• Yep, a lot of venues there.
• You seem to just want to use these 10s so that the whole year you would have these special occasions all around. You seem to put a lot in.
• Well, you use them on key dates, things like pay weekends, bank holiday weekends, that kind of thing, where you know--
• I thought they were your special days.
• No, you can use the special days as and when you wish.
• Yeah, but it seems that the 10s is an easy way to get it so that every weekend you've got this five o'clock, which is constantly being saying by the police now, that this is causing issues.
• Well, in reality, since the 12th of February, it's been saying no, but many years previous to that, the police have said, yeah, so that's the argument for us. All throughout last year, we were given temporary event notices and now all of a sudden, since the 12th of February, there's a rise in statistics and we're saying no, or there's a review of the data and the saying no. I'm not sure that that much has changed or other than an ongoing appeal, but yeah, it's not just, we want to open to 5 a.m. every weekend, just based on 10s, we have the right as an operator and as a venue to apply for those 10 prevent notices as do the police have the right to object to them.
• Okay, thank you very much. Okay, and then it's around about this time that we put a motion forward. (mumbles) Okay, seconded. Just for the record, all those in favor, please show. Okay, thank you very much. Thank you everybody for the attendance this afternoon.

Transcript