Transcript

I'm so sorry. Yeah. Good morning, everybody. My name is Derek Beer. I'm chairman of the licensing committee, and I'd like to welcome you to Dorset Council's licensing subcommittee this morning. We're now elected chairman for the meeting. Please, can I have a proposal? It would give me great pleasure to propose at yourself, Councillor Beer, as chairman. I second that. Thank you. We'll go through some introductions now. I'll now ask my fellow subcommittee members to introduce themselves. Good morning, everyone. My name's Craig Monks, Councillor Craig Monks from Bearminster Ward, and I'm a member of the licensing committee. Thank you. I'll now ask the officers to introduce themselves. We'll start with the committee clerk. Thank you. John Miles, Democratic Services. I'll be taking the minutes for the meeting. Thank you. Representative? Good morning. I'm Phil Crowther. I'm the subcommittee's legal advisor. Thank you. And the report author, who's the licensing team leader. Thank you, Chair. I'm Eileen Powell, licensing team leader, as you said. Thank you. And now I'll ask the people in attendance, would you mind introducing yourselves, please? Good morning. My name's Sarah Taylor. I am the events manager national for Forestry England. Hi, I'm Natalie Crabbe. I'm the site manager for Moores Valley Country Park. Good morning. I'm Nick Wardlaw, district recreation manager that covers Moores Valley Country Park. Good morning, everyone. My name's Dan Bell. My title is head of events and commercial visitor programs for Forestry England. Go across to those making representations. I'm Valerie Lee. I'm a resident of Webb's Way in Ashley Heath. Hello, I'm Susan Dunn. I'm also a resident in Ashley Heath. That's lovely. We've got some formalities to go through now. We've done the election of chairman. Do we have any apologies, please? Apologies for absence was received from Councillors Webb, Shortell and Weller, substituted by Councillor Monks and Parker. Thank you. Any declarations of interest from members? No. Thank you. We have no urgent items, I believe, and we're dealing with a new premises license for Moores Valley that we don't have any exempt business, I believe. We'll just go through a couple of points, if I may. This is a public meeting and it's being streamed live on YouTube. Obviously, it's a structured meeting, so any questions you have, go through myself in the chair. Obviously, only speak when you're invited to. Obviously, you've noticed how you need to deal with the microphones. I've been hopeless at it this morning, haven't I, but deal with the microphones, turn them on, turn them off when you wish to speak. The meeting gives you an opportunity, everyone has an equal and fair opportunity to put their case to see how things are. When everyone's made their case and we've got all the answers out of you that we think we need, we'll retire at the end of the meeting and make our decision and come back to you within five working days of this decision we've come to. But the whole idea of this morning is that we get every bit of information out of everybody and it's a fair and even playing field. Okay, thank you. Thank you very much. Anybody got any questions on the procedure? No? Okay, thank you. Right, thank you very much. In that case, we'll go over to the licensing team leader to present the floor. So, I thought I'd make that clear. Everyone will have a chance to make their case and everyone will have a chance to ask each other questions about what's gone on. So, if you make a point, we'll let you make your point. Members will ask you if they've understood or got any questions and then we'll come to everybody else in the room to ask you. Oh, it's gone. Okay, thank you. Right, licensing team leader, thank you. Thank you, Chair. So, this is a hearing, as you said, to consider an application from Forestry England for a new premises license at Moores Valley. The licensing act, as you know, sets out the four objectives that the licensing authority must follow and those are the prevention of crime and disorder, the prevention of public nuisance, the protection of children from harm and public safety. The licensing act also sets out who must determine applications, whoever they are from. In order to ensure that applications are dealt with on their merits, all the members of this subcommittee have been trained and all the officers and members dealing with this application have no involvement with Moores Valley. There are further safeguards in place in that any person who has applied or made a representation can appeal any decision to the Magistrates Court. The application is now just for the sale of alcohol and films. It's between 10am and 11pm or just about thereabouts. Recorded music has been removed. It is normal for any license where a license is required to cover ad hoc events to include all the days of the week. It would not mean necessarily that events would happen every day. It is also understandable that when people see such applications they are concerned about the possibilities this can open up. The subcommittee will need to take such steps that they think are appropriate in these circumstances, which could include attaching conditions to any license if granted, limiting its use. That said, there is always an option available to anyone to call in any license for review if the licensing objectives are not being promoted. This hearing has been delayed in order for the applicant to attend a meeting of the Safety Advisory Group. This group is made up of the responsible authorities, highways and the ambulance service. The group considers any large events and all the paperwork that necessarily goes with them. The meeting has been held and the local authority as a responsible authority has complemented their original representation with a set of suggested conditions in the event that license is granted. I have got confirmation from the applicant that they are content with those conditions. There have been 17 representations from interested parties and whilst the town council were in support of the application, 16 residents have objected. These objections are included in the report in full at appendix 5. To be counted as relevant, a representation must relate to one of the four licensing objectives and I have set out in the report the matters that do relate to one of them and those that don't. Further information is also included in the report from the guidance in appendix 7. The status of the guidance is that we must have regard to it and we can only depart from it if there are clear and justified reasons for such a departure. There has been one piece of supplementary information from the Erica Trust and Chairman of the EDEP and this has been circulated to the subcommittee members and published on our website. Section 7 of the report sets out the options that are available to the subcommittee after they have considered all the information contained in the report, the written representations and anything that is said at this hearing. And finally, I would just like to draw your attention to part of paragraph 9.44 from the guidance as quoted in paragraph 6.4 of the report. It is imperative that the authority ensures that the factors which form the basis of its determination are limited to consideration of the promotion of the objectives and nothing outside these parameters. The licensing authority is expected to come to its determination based on an assessment of the evidence on both the risks and benefits either for or against making the determination. Thank you, Chair. Thank you very much. Members, do you have any questions? Any questions yourselves? Do you understand the report? And over to you. Any questions at all? No? Okay. Thank you very much. Would you like to set out your case to members here and give us a good background of what you have in mind, please? Thank you. Thank you for the opportunity to explain to you more about our license application. I would like to introduce you to our reasons for applying for this license and provide you with the details of the event we are currently planning. Over the last few years, Mores Valley Country Park and Forest has hosted several outdoor events and exhibitions linked to our natural setting and environment. These have included outdoor photography exhibitions. It seems we've got a trip going on upstairs. We'll let them get by. Hello. Can we welcome the people upstairs? Obviously, you haven't come to see what's going on. Good morning to you all. We've got a licensing hearing going on at the moment where we're determining a license application. At this present moment in time, we're hearing from the applicant, okay? Thank you. But if you can be as quiet as you possibly can so we can hear what's going on. Thank you. Thank you, Chairman. Sure. I'll start from that bit again. Over the last few years, Mores Valley Country Park and Forest has hosted several outdoor events and exhibitions linked to our natural setting and environment. These have included outdoor photography exhibitions, inside-outdoors at arts festivals, and as part of this, an earth-themed light exhibition hosted over several summer and autumn evenings. These are a great way for people to spend time in and connect with nature and have been very positively received. Our key purpose for our premise license application at this time is to host an exciting and family-focused seasonal illuminated light trail event in 2024 around Halloween. We've applied for a year-round license as this would also support our aspirations to continue running suitable family-themed events in the future. This would enable us to engage further with children and families and create experiences for our local community and beyond. We plan to hold a small number of events each year that are respectful of the natural environment and work with its season and are specifically tailored to families. With this in mind, aspects such as the theme of events, music, and catering will be carefully chosen and appropriate to the audience. To confirm, we're not planning on doing any event with live music or concert elements. Hence, why this regulated entertainment is not included within the premise license application. On advice of Dorset Council, we've also removed the regulated entertainment of recorded music. The background soundscape played during illuminated light trail events is incidental only to complement the lighting of the trees and installations. Whilst we have hosted outdoor cinema at other Forestry England sites elsewhere in the country, there are no current plans to do this at Moores Valley Country Park and Forest. Although this premise license application has been submitted to enable us to fulfill these aspirations, we embarked upon this process with a specific event in mind. To alleviate any apprehensions regarding the type and suitability of event, we have planned to run under our premise license. We have shared additional details of the planned illuminated walking trail and the anticipated event documentation that would be provided in advance of any event falling under this license. We appreciated the opportunity to have met the Dorset Council Safety Advisory Group on the 26th of April, which provided the opportunity for all responsible and other regulatory authorities to gain certainty that the license conditions can be satisfactorily delivered and to demonstrate our efficiency and capability in the running of large-scale events. We carried out a short presentation to further the understanding of the likely components of the Halloween event, including confirmation of the event paperwork that would be submitted in support of this event. We also shared a full suite of event documentation from our event partner who executed a similar illuminated light trail event hosted at a Forestry England site in 2023. This event documentation was sent to demonstrate we're partnered with reputable, experienced event professionals who have a proven track record of planning and delivering this type of illuminated light trail experience in ecologically sensitive venues. With this and any other future event, as per the operating schedule in the application and as a recommended license condition, event-specific documentation will be provided to the Dorset Council Safety Advisory Group six weeks in advance for their feedback. This was a very positive meeting and we're pleased to satisfy the Safety Advisory Group of the standard and detail of our event documentation. We would be happy to be held to this high standard for future events. The Halloween illuminated light trail is the only event planned for 2024 under this premise license and will run for a limited ten consecutive days around Halloween, operating from 4 p.m. with last entry at 9 p.m. The trail is a one-mile walking experience on existing forest walking trails with lighting and audio effects including incidental background soundscape. There's no live music and some actors offering interactive elements. The whole event is programmed and designed to be family-friendly entertainment and similar to other seasonal illumination events already held in Dorset including Christmas at Kingston Lacey. We feel this event will be a great asset to showcase Moores Valley Country Park and Forest. It is a tightly capacity controlled ticketed event segmented into 15-minute arrival slots. The staggered approach is to ensure the event has a steady and manageable flow of vehicles and attendees. We're not anticipating there being any more than around 2,000 attendees on site at any one point which is lower than what the site can experience on a normal busy summer day. All cars will be easily accommodated within our on-site car park and due to steady arrival departure we're not expecting any issues onto the neighboring road network. There will be hot and cold refreshments available including mulled wine and beer. The audience profile that attends these events are low risk including a low consumption of alcohol. Due to it being a family-friendly entertainment. Data from previous similar events held at Blenheim Palace confirms that only one in five people who attend this type of event purchased an alcoholic drink. The most popular beverage sold at this family event is hot chocolate. Our partners on this event are RG Live, part of the Sony Group who are the UK's leading provider of illuminated light trails who have successfully brought these family light trail experiences to several other notable UK visitor attractions including other Forester England sites, National Trust properties including Kingston Lacey and Dorset, Kew Gardens and Blenheim Palace. We're confident the illuminated light trail we're proposing around Halloween along with any additional event we develop in the future will be a low risk, family-friendly, enjoyable event with minimal impact that will meet all four of the licensing objectives. Thank you. Thank you very much. That's very detailed. Does anybody else in your group would like to add to what you've said? No? Okay. Members, do you have any questions on the presentation? No? No? Okay, thank you. And licensing team leader have any questions? No, thank you. And those making representations, have you any questions on the report so far? No? Okay, thank you very much indeed. I would like to ask, they're planning a one 10-day event. And my question is therefore, why are you applying for a year-round license when it's a 10-day event? And how are you planning, what alcohol are you planning to serve at what sites across the park at future events that you haven't specified in this introduction you've just made? Thank you. Yes, so we've applied for the year-round license because it's a general approach to license applications and also to look to explore future events that could enhance the existing experience at Moore's Valley. So, although this event will be 10 days, we may be in future, we want to expand that to 12 days as an example. And at the moment, we don't know how successful that 10-day event is going to be. And so we need some flexibility there. But also potentially other events that require, say for example, we've hosted Gruffalo fun days before. And to enhance that sort of experience, we'd quite like to be able to show the Gruffalo film to a select ticketed amount of audience. And so therefore, we'd need a license for that. At this point in time, we have no further plans for events that are covered under this license and so therefore, we can't specify at the moment. But if we were to do events on that side of things, we would go through the process that we've done on this in terms of submitting the event documentation to the Safety Advisory Group in advance to give assurance of the same level of scrutiny that we have done on this particular event. And in terms of license for alcohol sales, they will be in specific locations probably at a start and a midpoint of the light trail. And then for other events at this point, I can't say, but they will be very limited and to enhance that all family experience for all members of the family. Can I come back? Can I come? Sorry, I beg your pardon. You'll get planning to serve alcohol at the midpoint on a walk in the evening and you're planning to sell alcohol for a child event at that point. So you want to serve alcohol when children are walking around at night in the forest. Is that correct? But that's past all the safety advisory concerns that the Council has. For there to be a range of street food. So there will often be coffee stands, hot food, cold food. Part of that offering is one of the food units will do mulled wine and beer because that's part of the range of catering that people who attend those events would like to have an offer. But it is very much, as we said in the data we provided, it is the minority of people that are consuming an alcoholic beverage and if it is, it's likely to be a mulled wine. So I'm sure much of the people in this courtroom have been to a Christmas market before and it's not unusual for somebody to have one mulled wine as part of that experience. But it's certainly not the main rational reason for people to consume at these kind of events. It's very much a seasonal event. Do you have any more questions just on the report so far? Could I just ask what environmental impact studies that you have done? It's not just humans that use Moors Valley. There are significant rare species such as bats, owls, nighttime creatures. I didn't see anything in the documentation other than the very broad brush that you don't think it's going to have an impact. Having significant thousands of people there at night with lights and music, you are going to have an impact. I hear owls next to my house because I'm connected to Moors Valley. So as well as the other risks to the actual forest, what studies have you done to show that you are not going to impact important wildlife? We've commissioned an independent ecologist to do a full report of the boundary plan area and we are awaiting that full report and any recommendations from them. That's somebody that Culture Creative, who are the production partners of RG Live, have used across multiple sites, our other forestry England sites included. So we're awaiting the report on that. We've seen some draft of that and so far they have no specific issues about this event. We've also got our on-site ecology team that have been briefed on the event too who have not raised any issues as yet. The independent ecologist that you've commissioned works for the production partner of RG Live. They're therefore not an independent ecologist if they work with your production partner. They've been commissioned by Culture Creative as an independent ecology company. They have also been commissioned at other sites but they're not a partner of Culture Creative. Members, on what you've heard so far in response to this, are you happy with those answers? Yes, you're happy to have understood the answers. Members, have you got any questions on what you've heard so far? No questions. I was going to actually ask a question with regards to locations of where you were planning on selling alcohol but actually I think your question covered that for me so thank you for the other questions. Perhaps some clarity from our colleagues with regards to environmental impact and how that sits with this application if possible. You can do it, Phil. You can do it. Thank you, Chair. I think it's really useful for those questions to be asked and the answers to have been given but just so everyone here is clear about what the committee can and can't take into account. It could only take into account for licensing objectives so that doesn't include the impact on wildlife so I'm not saying that that's not a key concern for everybody here but it's not a matter that the subcommittee can take into account. Thank you, Chair. This is just a point of clarification for the applicant so that the subcommittee is clear about what's been agreed in terms of conditions. Mrs. Powell said that you were happy with the suggested conditions that the Council's representatives had put forward if the committee was minded to grant the license. Can I just check whether that is the conditions suggested by the Safety Advisory Group and the Environmental Health team or one or the other? Is it one or the other or both? Thank you. Can I just clarify that? We have had a little discussion outside. There is obviously slight overlap with the Environmental Health condition. My suggestion would be to go with the Safety Advisory Group conditions because the Environmental Health Officer is part of that. There is one condition from the Environmental Health Officer that would probably not overlap with the others which is the telephone number available for residents. Otherwise, their conditions are mirrored by the ones in the Safety Advisory Group with a slight difference between eight weeks and six weeks. You totally understand all of that. You're happy with that. You're happy to go along with that should the license be granted. Do you have any questions on what has just been put so far, those making representations? Okay, thank you. When I move on to yourselves, would you like to make representations yourself? Who would like to go first? Thank you for this opportunity to speak. This is a statement that I prepared earlier so I hope that's acceptable. Moore's Valley Country Park and Forest Alcohol License is linked with organizing large events on up to 364 days of the year which is clearly designed to increase visitor numbers. If Forestry England only plans to hold one 10-day special event at Moore's Valley, it's hoped that the Council will listen to the objections by local people and consider that as an appropriate way forward. The use of outdoor cinema combined with the serving of alcohol will cause significant public nuisance to local residents and park visitors. There is only one existing park entry and large events are likely to result in long queues which could cause aggressive driving, possible crime and public nuisance. The proposed 15-minute arrival slots will not prevent local road congestion. It will merely prolong the period of congestion on the Horton Road, causing a devastating effect on the village highways and theoretically a significant risk to public safety by restricting emergency vehicle access to residents and park visitors. The potential impact on health is hugely significant to local residents trying to access maternity, GP, hospital appointments or home-based healthcare because many of the residents in the area are actually elderly. If the only access road to Moore's Valley Country Park and Forest is gridlocked, you are denying anyone in that facility access to appropriate and time-critical healthcare. It is irresponsible, in my opinion, to encourage alcohol consumption and driving, especially to family venues organising child-focused events. Alcohol is a depressant affecting reaction times, judgment and coordination, and this alcohol licence application poses an increased risk to public and child safety, in addition to potentially facilitating an increase in antisocial and illegal behaviour. If the likes of Legoland and Poulton Park do not have alcohol for sale at their restaurants and cafes, and on-site alcohol sales do not support the safety rules advertised with Go Ape, why are we proposing this way forward? And I would ask what privately funded measures and policies are going to be implemented to support the policing of antisocial behaviour caused by alcohol consumption on this site? Whilst we welcome visitors to Dorset, we certainly don't need the Council to support an alcohol licence for 364 days of the year at a child-centred adventure park and therefore suggest very respectfully that Forestry England focuses these larger events at alternative sites that are more appropriate and can safely accommodate the increase in visitor numbers. Thank you very much. Before we move on to yourself, we just see if anybody has any questions on what you put. Members, do you have any questions? No? Licensing team leader, any questions? No, thank you. And do you have any questions on what you just heard from the ladymaker representations? No? Okay. Firstly, I'd just like to say I know you've excluded the environmental impact from licensing, but most of the councils in the country have declared environmental emergencies, therefore surely you should include the environmental impact of anything in all of your considerations, and I would put it under a public nuisance if you're going to damage the environment. There have been significant objections in the documents that we've all been given from the RSPB and in other environmental groups who are strongly against this because of its impact on night-time wildlife. I'd also point out there is a dark skies policy in the New Forest and in the Cranbourne Chase national landscape, and obviously this goes in between, so there will be significant disruption. And I know that there are rules, but we have to just stop putting profit and money over the environment. One would hope that an organization like Forestry England might have thought a bit more about the fact that they're running a forest and it's not just a play park for bored humans. The other two points I'd like to make, we've had a number of letters of reassurance. This is a quiet family event. People only drink hot chocolate. It's not going to be the maximum capacity. So why apply for a license for nearly 5,000 people for 364 days a year from 10 a.m. to 11 p.m.? Why not a restricted license for up to certain days? Why not a temporary event license? Because there is already a license for the cafe, which I believe is run by the council on the Moors Valley site. That has a full license, alcohol license, so people can buy drinks in there. So this is going to be the construction of alcohol points throughout the forest. Forestry England puts these in place. What's the temptation once you give the license for them to be open at 10 o'clock every morning and open till 11 p.m. at night serving alcohol? Once you give them the license, they can do what they like. I mean, they can say it's just a family event, but once you've given them a full license, they can do whatever they want within the license, as far as I'm aware, unless you correct me on that. So then we're talking about antisocial behavior. It's a forest. It's full of combustible Scots pines. It's connected to the side of -- effectively the side of my property. Fire. Look at Wareham Forest. Look at all the disposable barbecue issues with Heathland. You can significantly increase the risks of somebody burning down Moors Valley, litter, all of those sort of problems. So I just don't -- I just see a complete disconnect for what's being applied for, for what they're telling us is going to happen. And the third point I'd like to make is just on an outdoor cinema license. Again, this event, very quiet music, a few actors jumping out to scare people, we're not probably going to hear that. But then if you decide to play the Gruffalo film, if you play that -- if they play that at a high enough volume for the audience to get satisfaction, we will hear it. We clearly hear the toot from the Moors Valley train, which I'm not complaining about, but I can hear it inside my house. I can hear the tannoy from the Ringwood Raceway, which is down by the car boot cell, which is much further away from the Moors Valley site. We can hear the tannoy on race days quite clearly in the garden and in the house. So there's no way that you're going to play cinema with booming background noise that you get with cinema. If the audience is satisfied, we're going to hear it. And we don't want to hear it. It's a nice, quiet place. We put up with all the traffic and noise from Moors Valley during the day. Now we're going to be subjected to it during the evening as well. That's my objections. Thank you. I'll just cover a couple of your points before we go to other members. On the second point you made, should a license be granted after we've heard everything, should it be granted? Then of course there is -- and it's a point I was going to make later in the meeting -- there is a review procedure. So if things don't go according to the license that's been granted, then there is a review procedure. You can call it in and say, look, this isn't working properly. Let's see what we can do to put it right. That's on your second point. On the first point, may I ask the legal team if they've got any response about the environmental impact assessment or is that an unfair question? Thank you, Chair. Essentially my advice remains the same, that impact on wildlife isn't something that you can take into account when determining the application. It's correct that the Council has declared a climate and environment emergency, but you are constrained by the legislation on determining licensing applications, and that overrides the Council's declaration on that point. Thank you. Members, do you have any questions at all? No questions from me. I was just wondering if there's any further clarification. Anything for yourself? Anything -- would you like any questions on what has been put or any clarification from those making representations? Thank you. Thank you. I'd just like to come back on the environmental point. We are an organization that absolutely has conservation at our heart, and we would not be going forward with an event that we thought had a detrimental impact on the ecology or the sensitivities on site. And even though it is not part of the licensing procedure, we are still committed to completing an environmental report to satisfy that all necessary mitigation is put in place for it to be -- have very low impact on the sensitivities on site. Thank you very much. Are you -- over to yourself. Thank you. I ask under those circumstances, would it not have been prudent for that to be available before this meeting, and also that the reports that you've made regarding the fire and safety documentations that you've had prepared, that that was made available to people? Thank you. So all event-specific event documentation will be produced in line with the timings of a license being granted, so it will sit within the environment management plan that will be submitted to the safety advisory group, which will consider -- the fire service will consider the fire plans, et cetera. So unfortunately, timing of this hearing, the environmental report is not ready yet, but as it also sits outside this procedure, it wasn't a document that needed to be sent in prior to this hearing, but we're working hard to get that done. Thank you. Can I just come back on your response to my part two? So you're saying obviously there's a review process, but can you just clarify that if you approve this license, then Moors Valley can choose to sell alcohol 364 days a year, 10 a.m. to 11 p.m., outside of events. So say they build a couple of their structures like the cake structure they built recently in the middle of the forest. So they build a couple of bars in the forest that they can -- if you approve their license, they don't have to do anything else to run this, unless, you know, we get drunken idiots in the forest and we all complain about it and you review it, then nothing will be done. So they can -- if you give that license that they can do that straightaway. Could you just clarify that that's what you said? Thank you. I'll just ask Eileen to answer that question for you. Thank you. Thank you, Chair. That will depend entirely on how the license is conditioned if one gets granted. So a license can be conditioned that there are just as few number of events a year. It could be -- there's all sorts of permutations that you can put on the condition. Once the license is granted, then the applicants or the license holder as they would be then could operate it how they wanted. However, this meeting is recorded, so all they have said about what they're going to do is recorded. If it was to be brought into review, all that evidence could be brought in. And if it was shown that they weren't doing that, then it would be very easy for the license to be looked at again and changed. Are you content with that response? Yeah? Yeah. Sorry. Are you -- are you content with the -- yeah. Okay. Thank you. I have to ask again. So the events license that they're going to offer can be as extended as long as possible. Is that correct? And you can hold as many as you like. I'm so sorry. I've lost my trail of thought. Would you please excuse me for a moment while I compose myself? Thank you. Please continue. I do apologize. Let me just answer that if I can, hopefully. That will depend on whether any conditions are put onto that license if it's granted by the subcommittee. So they could potentially put conditions on limiting the number of events. Okay. My question is, is how do you plan to survey or liaise with local people in order to ensure that it's not a public nuisance? Thank you. I'm sorry. Would you mind repeating? Oh, I didn't hear it. I'm sorry. Yeah? Thank you. The question was, how do you plan to survey or determine how the events do not cause public nuisance? Thank you. Who would like to answer that? I presume that would be an event-specific response. So we would look at each event individually dependent on what it was and determine the appropriate survey for that. From knowledge of other illuminated trails, an audience survey goes out post-event. We also do one of the conditions suggested that we have said we're happy with, is a phone line for the duration of the event that will be made available to local residents as well. So should there be any nuisance, they can let us know and we can action on that immediately. Members, do you have any questions for those making representations? No questions? No. Okay. Thank you. Legal team, have you got any questions on what we've heard so far from anybody? No. And you're both content, both parties with that on what you've heard so far from people. You've understood all the questions. Yeah, thank you. Can I just ask, just in the terms of the logistics, just checking, it's going to be ticketed events. What about parking? Because at the moment we are protected by yellow lines and council officials coming and giving people tickets which generally stops our roads being blocked. But there are roads that are getting blocked further away from Moores Valley on, for example, Park Run. So are you going to ticket it that people have to come to Moores Valley or is there going to be any way they can get in by walking in and parking in our roads? Thanks. Are you happy to answer that question? Yeah, so these illuminated light trails that we do at several sites, when a customer purchases their ticket, they have to purchase a ticket for a specific slot. And for obviously the number of people that are coming, whether it's a family or a duo, part of that is they then have to reserve their car parking space as well because the capacity is actually based on what a car park can take. The actual trails that we do at other forestry sites could take considerably more people than we put on sale, but we limit it based on what the car parking could take, not what the actual walking trail can take. So yeah, the car parking is very much considered as part of that and it's all expected that everybody parks on site and we actively discourage anybody parking illegally or off our boundaries. Are you content with that response? To put this, the applicants and to Eileen, has there been any temporary events notices ran on this premises outside of the area that you've already got licensed? I need to look it up. Sorry, I asked if temporary events notices. Take me a little while to get into the system and have a look, but I will do that. On our part, none that we're aware of. Have you got any more points that you'd like to raise now to bring to the attention of us or anything else you'd like to raise at this moment? No? Members, have you got any questions for those making representations? And legal team, have you got any questions for those making representations? No? Okay. Right. Would you like to, you've got an opportunity now to sum up, having heard what people have said and in response to questions you've had, is there anything you'd like to do to bring to our attention? Is there anything you'd like to bring up at this moment? Thank you. I'm sorry, I wasn't clear enough. Of those making representations, if you'd like to sum up now on any points you'd like to raise, anything you'd like to bring up further, you'd like to sum up your representations. Thank you. I would just like to sum up. I think it's inappropriate for the forest to be used at nighttime for events. I think it's inappropriate to have a broad scale alcohol license in a place which is meant to be a family place. I think there is significant risk to the forest from fire and public nuisance to us from noise. Obviously, I take on board that we can't include the environment, but I think you should. But I just think we put up with a million visitors at Moore's Valley choking our roads during the daytime and it's just inappropriate to change the nature of the place and to try and milk it for even more money at nighttime as well when we do get some respite from, say, the million visitors that we have to put up with during the year. Thank you. My point is that if the council go ahead and actually authorize this license, would they consider doing it on a trial basis where a limited number of events are actually held for the next year and that they actively survey local residents and guests regarding their opinions on the success and the appropriateness for this site? Because I understand through some of your websites, there have been issues with other Forestry England events where customer surveys at Trustpilot and other things like that haven't been incredibly favorable. So I would ask that if you do go ahead, that you limit the number of events that they hold a year and that you actually survey and find out the results. Thank you. Thank you for that. Aileen, is there a point you'd like to make on that issue? Thank you, Chair. You can limit a license by condition, so either to the number of events. What you can't do is you can't do a trial license, although you could theoretically limit the – you could give it an expiry date. And what we wouldn't be able to do is we wouldn't be able to undertake a survey of residents at that point. It would just be another application that would come in. Did you understand that response for – yeah, thank you very much. Members, do you have any questions on that summing up at all? No? And have you got any points at all? No. Right. Would you like to take this opportunity to sum up, bearing in mind all that you've heard? Thank you. In summary, this year-round license would support our aspirations to continue running suitable family-themed events in the future, allowing us to include some additional elements to enhance the current offering. The Halloween illuminated light trail is the only event planned for 2024 under this premise license application. Any future events will be held to the high standard of event planning, which was condoned by the Safety Advisory Group and I think addresses many of the points that were raised today. Okay, thank you very much. So that was – are you content, both parties content that you've had a fair and reasonable hearing? Nothing else you'd like to say? What members have anything else to ask? Eileen, yeah. Thank you, Chair. I can give you the answer to the temporary event question now. So it looks like the last one was in 2021 when there were three. There have been none since. We've had a total of 22 events since 2005 and none since 2021. Thank you. You can take that response. Thank you very much. So if everybody's happy and content that you've had a fair hearing, we'll now retire with our legal representative and consider everything we've heard and whether or not to grant the license or should we put conditions and such like. When we finish that deliberation, you will be notified within five working days of our decision and can I remind people that there is the right of appeal to the Magistrate's Court should you not like that – if you don't like that outcome. As we've spoken already, there is the review procedure also if things don't work out as you both intended. So if there are no more questions from anybody, we'll draw this meeting to a close and may I thank you very much indeed for your attendance this morning. Thank you. [BLANK_AUDIO]