Transcript

Transcript

Good evening members, I make it six o'clock so we'll start the meeting. The first item of business this evening is to elect the chairman for the municipal year. Can I have nominations please? I saw one hand go first, Councillor Clopman. I'd like to nominate Councillor Catherine Thomas. Is there a seconder? Thank you. Councillor Fitter. I'd like to propose Councillor David Pinwell. Thank you, is there a seconder? Thank you. All those in favour of Councillor Thomas please show. And those in favour of Councillor Pinwell please show. Thank you Councillor Pinwell, your elected chair. Thank you. Thank you colleagues and I look forward to working with all of you over the coming municipal year. So welcome to this first meeting of the year and in particular a welcome to the two members who are joining this board for the year, Councillors Tomlinson and Sharma. Welcome to both of you. Can I remind everyone present that this meeting will be broadcast live by the internet and the record will be archived for future viewing. Any member of the press and public may listen to the proceedings via a web link which has been publicised on the council website. Participants in this meeting will be the members of the scrutiny board, officers supporting the meeting and any members of the public who've requested to speak. Meeting is taking place using hybrid equipment. Some press participants or most participants are in the chamber but some are joining via the video conferencing system. Can I remind everyone participating in the meeting including those participating remotely to turn microphones off except when invited to speak. We move on to the second item on the agenda which is the appointment of vice chairman. Can I have any nominations please? Councillor Burrow. Councillor Fitter is nominated. Any other nominations? You are seconding. Okay. Councillor McLachlan. Councillor Catherine Thomas. Councillor Thomas. Is there a seconder? Thank you Councillor Donnelly. All those in favour of Councillor Fitter being appointed vice chairman. And all those in favour of Councillor Thomas being appointed vice chairman. Congratulations Councillor Fitter. You are vice chairman of the board for the year. Can we have any apologies for absence please? No apologies chairman. Thank you and any declarations of pecuniary or conflicts of interest members? Councillor Tomlinson. Yeah hi I'm on the board of governors at Solihull College with special responsibility for SEND Thank you very much Councillor Tomlinson. Any others? Thank you very much. Are there any questions and deputations please? None received chairman. So on to item six which is the minutes of the last meeting. All those members who were on the board last year I invite you to confirm that these are a true record and otherwise to raise any points that you wish to make. Can I have the minutes accepted please? I see nods of acknowledgement thanks very much. The minutes are therefore approved. We move on to item seven the cabinet portfolio holders priorities for the municipal year. Now Councillors Hawkins and Parker are here in attendance in the chamber. Councillors courts and Makovich are not in Solihull at present and so we thank them for joining us online. We will start off if we could with the leaders portfolio and over to you please Councillor courts. Okay just checking that everyone can hear me okay. I can just see you chairman and Andy but I can't see anyone else so yes we can hear you Councillor courts thank you. Okay thank you very much. Okay the summary of my proposals and priorities is on top of page 14 and there's an element of deja vu about this and that's deliberately so. These most of the the proposals here are continuations of previous activities and measures. Solihull is a very strong performing economy it's one of the strongest in the UK and offers a world-class connected location to live work and invest. We are a prime investment opportunity location ranked in the top 10 UK destinations for business and we consistently outperform the rest of the West Midlands and the UK average in terms of growth added value per capita and business survivor rates. So you know there is a lot here that is good there is a lot that we need to do. Our task we know our task is to continue and enhance that economic success through delivery of the economic strategy as well as promoting inclusive growth supporting business investment and innovation and that's you know that's fun that's a fundamental task that we have to do and then there are various projects which you've heard before but you know there's no harm in that. The Kingshurst development proceeds we have to get funding from different opportunities and it's been quite tough in fact because Solihull doesn't rank very high in the ranks of deprivation as a borough and compared to many other places so we have to get funding from where we can and the priority now will be to get in Kingshurst phase two that's security health and retail hub ready for delivery so bringing that about. Anyone who's been around a while knows that this has been quite tricky with previous village centres. We've had to in fact health has tended to be behind because of the process of decision making required and you know we've achieved all the centres and you know but I'm just saying it is a slow process and we can be criticised for being slow but it's not we that are slow it's actually the funding getting the funding from others and getting the decision-making process particularly from the health authorities which is one of the reasons why I've started getting involved in health because I think there's a lot more that we can do to bring partners in so Kingshurst is the start of the list. Then we move on to Mel Square that's obviously a longer term it's a 15-year project but we hope to do phase one make a start on that within the next couple of years. I was in Leeds after a conference was it last week or a month ago time flies when you're having fun doesn't it? Well it was last week and I was there with the preferred partner promoting the scheme Mel Square scheme then so that's a key proposal I mean we were subjected to question and answer one of the questions is how do we keep Mel Square vibrant and active at the same time as that we're actually trying to carry out a development well I mean occupancy curiously is higher than it was when we bought so you know it's quite a nice problem to have really but you know that's part and part of the proposals so Chelsea Wood is next on the list it has a totally different dynamic and someone did ask me you know why can't you do Chelsea Wood as quickly as you can do Mel Square it's a totally different dynamic it's a totally different value in terms of interest from the private sector which is what would drive Mel Square but so there's there's going to be public funding then there's going to be public content there as well and I'm really looking forward to you know just taking the next stages on Chelsea Wood but there are ownership things we have to deal with okay Arden Cross well it's been going for a long time it will go for a long time it is extremely complex the cost and complexity of what we have to do there to unlock land it's very hard but on the other hand it's a highly desirable location and the University of Warwick that we have signed a declaration of intent with for the health tech campus is possibly one of the most you know exciting things we could ever do in this in this borough to to think that we could you know in the best connected place in England have that be promoting that centre and then finally the refreshed Solihull connected transport strategy to improve rapid connectivity within key locations and that's interesting because in Leeds where I bumped into our new regional mayor on several occasions actually and he it could have been a cut and paste from one of my speeches about connectivity north to the central Solihull so I'm very hopeful there that we'll get or get the continued support that we had from former mayor Andy Street and finally this hasn't been on the list before but needs to be is the pages of the design work for the Borsal Common Relief Road which it's all been clear we need that that in place and therefore we decided it must form part of this year's plan and central part plank so that is it from me and I'm happy to take questions Mr Chairman. Thank you Councillor Courts can I invite questions from members of the board please. Councillor Thomas. I noticed that balancing the council budget wasn't down as one of your priorities for this year with it being so key should it be or do you feel that it is adequately covered by the resources portfolio? Well this was an economic portfolio brief it wasn't a whole council one I would have expected that item to come before resources scrutiny I'm not sure whether the equivalent meeting has taken place so that's why it's not here and actually there are many many other things that aren't here as well in terms of whole council plans I mean obviously this I could think of several on the people services and so on but you're absolutely right of course balancing the the budget is is you know without which you don't get very far so it's it's in the overall scheme of things but I don't think it's applicable here. Councillor Borrow. Thank you Chairman Councillor Courts thank you very much for this and I'm very pleased that we've got the Balsall Common Relief Road mentioned I just wanted to check my understanding you mentioned support our towns and local centres obviously within the local plan and there is some mention of the Balsall Common Centre can I just check that the reason it's not mentioned here is that there is nothing to be done this year in terms of moving it forward because we need to get the relief road work done first it's just I've been asked a question about this and I'm sure that's the answer but I just thought I ought to ask you thank you. Well Councillor it's not here specifically but you could argue it's under support our towns and local centres I made it quite clear that you know it's not just the principal centres of Chelsea Wood, Mel Square and Shirley that are my concern I mean you start at Castle Bromwich in the north and you go southwards so I think the reference to Mel Square is an illustration of supporting our towns and local centres it's not completely exclusive I mean what I you know I quite like the idea of is if there could be identified it may be online means and I saw one referred to a little while ago of means of supporting local centres because they really are important I mean they are you know they're connected with the whole vitality of every community so it's quite a long answer why it's not there I don't think it needs to be there and I know also I think you've answered it anyway yourself Councillor Burrow that you know there isn't anything to be done probably this year. Further questions members Councillor McLachlan. Thank you chair I have got a few questions but I always like to mop up rather than start off. Firstly the point which is unlocking the development opportunity in Ardencross and HS2 obviously on the local plan some of the the broader site that that was included within is one of the reasons why the inspector of the local plan has held up and there's no mention of housing there and there is obviously mention of the health tech campus and university of university of Warwick as partners can you offer any updates on what's happening with housing on the Ardencross HS2 site? Well the inspector I don't think had anything to say about Ardencross as such he referred to the NEC which is the other side of the motorway and indeed I think is not Greenbell anyway the relevant part isn't so I don't think the local plan as such is relevant to any you know in that way however you may well then come back and say well you know what is the situation in terms of releasing this the Ardencross site without the local plan well you know it's in the same position as other sites are you know if someone wants to release it may need an application through the planning committee and proving exceptional circumstances. I mean the site strikes me as there might be an exceptional circumstances like the building great big station and infrastructure right across what was fields it looks. So I don't you're right that the planning will need to be dealt with but it's there's a limited amount of what we can do ourselves in terms of putting that in this local plan. Now there was another question did you ask me another question Max? I was about to so you've probably read my mind but just going back to the previous one obviously within the local plan the Ardencross site and the NEC site were covered under the site of UK central so they were labeled as being part of the same delivery and obviously if there's any deviation from that it's looking at whether or not there's going to be any reduced release of land on the Ardencross site which could cause future problems in the future phases of the local plan but we'll leave that you obviously have obviously answered it somewhat and the final one. I can just help you Councillor Carlson I can just yes you did I say I mean the numbers allocated to Ardencross were 500 in the local plan period which is 15 years so it wasn't masses and you know proposals have been put forward for in the Ardencross master plan for a range of housing but we're not there yet in terms of knowing the implications on numbers as of yet. Obviously at the examination in public I think the suggestion was that it would be 1600 but obviously that wouldn't necessarily make a difference to the submitted version of the local plan. I wanted to move on to the Borsall Common Relief Road because obviously I know you and Councillor Burrows have referred to this I want to just ask a very sort of straightforward explicit question will this reduce traffic volumes on the A452 or will it induce demand? Well I'm not I'm not an expert on this but the Kellaworth Road I think is a very busy road going through the centre it's probably the main road from Warwick and the area through to the interchange. Inevitably there is also a risk that a new road will increase demand personally we're not designing it we've referred to as a relief road not a bypass I mean there was reference in times gone by to someone proposing a 60 mile a path away a very fast road which we all posed instantly so we're not planning it to be the sort of road that you know will attract loads more traffic but you know traffic has a habit of finding its own level doesn't it? I wouldn't have expected it from what we know. My concern is obviously new road building does always induce demand and I think with the ambitions that we have in relation to net zero new road building and if it's on the basis of it reducing traffic flows on the A452 Kellaworth Road but it doesn't do that the question is what is the justification for it as a relief road there are obviously other concerns and considerations around the impact on existing properties of where that road actually connects up to the A452 but I just wanted to I had left the Kingshurst development because I know there's one I'm sat next to one of the members for Kingshurst and Fordbridge but I know they probably they probably know more on this than I do the one bit that I had a question over was the way in which you referred to it as and you were looking you were talking about a degree of uncertainty over the funding can you offer some assurances that the funding will be secured or if it isn't able to be secured externally that the council won't you know dilute or backtrack on any of the future phases because it's now being you know demolished and we need to see that progressing. I'm not sure what words I used and if I said uncertainty I'm probably more uncertainty of timing than I am uncertainty we have and I have consistently for many years put this right at the top of priorities we've used council resources consistently over this we've the office has been actually brilliant in identifying every possibility for funding and we are completely committed to it as you say it's been demolished there is a temporary co-op there which I think is doing quite well you know we're committed to continuing with that scheme and you know I think ducks are progressively being put in place to make it happen and you know even the new West Midlands Mayor who I was interested strongly interested in it well he would be wouldn't he and I hope he's going to cough up as well so that would be another hopeful source of funding I'm really very pleased now that he's very interested in supporting some of our schemes and the final question which was I know that you talked about Chamsley Wood town centre not being as quick as Mow Square I understand the economics of it I know that we have been waiting for this for a very very long time the question was I know that we wouldn't be able to set any date on when spades are in the ground but is there any kind of indicative timeline of when residents in that area might be able to see at least the next stage that they can engage with engage with in terms of consultation I cannot give an answer to that question it's possible the officers who I can't see on screen may be able to one of the limitations here there are various I mean we own Mow Square I mean we'll have a CPO in cases bits and pieces but we own it and we have complete control and it is ownership and those sort of things that hold up schemes more than anything else when you're doing these types of schemes so and when I talk ownership I mean putting the necessary packages in place for people that are going to occupy and like it is totally different from from Mow Square and has totally different scenarios I mean for instance well that's probably as far as I need go but in terms of timeline I can't answer that it was I mean Chelmswood something only put on the radar my group put on the radar some years ago and we're determined to keep pushing on with it so but let's not be too impatient because it is there are things out that need resolving I don't know whether officers can answer now I don't know but officers are there actually of course Perry wants to come in yeah thank you chair the I mean I think my first point is I thought you'd be considering the matter later on in terms of the work program item because there's a suggestion from last time that you had that as an item for your work program this year which would allow you to look in detail at the questions that you've raised Councillor McLachlan we're still discussing at the moment what the next phase of engagement would be I think I've expressed previously that there was a change in ownership of the centre which meant that a number of the conversations that we've been having and proposals that we'd sort of jointly reached a certain degree of agreement on we've had to revisit and effectively start those conversations again as you would naturally expect and that's just what's affected the time scale that we were originally working on and considered before so I can't give a comment tonight when that would exactly be but I expect it to feature prominently and if you approve your work program in the report that will come towards you to this board later on this year thank you very unless there are any other questions any members want to ask then we'll thank Councillor courts and I'm not mr chairman am I released have I been mocked up enough yes thank you Councillor courts thank you for interrupting your evening to come and join us no it's all right I'm happy to stand for as long as as may be but I do I'm I've come out of something else so at a courtesy but but thank you for the questions and for the courtesy of members thank you Councillor courts right let us move on then to Councillor Makovitch if you would like to present your priorities for us please yes thank you chairman I've just just warn you I've got the sword of Damocles above my head Microsoft oh to old day it is ready to be installed so if the Microsoft decides to install the update during this thing you'll understand I won't be to come back but yes first of all I just pay tribute to the officers who work in this area and I think the work we've done over the last four years been really good in climate change and planning so I'm very pleased and very happy with the work they have done and the first two points there's an interaction plan are one of the same thing and I believe they're on your work programme for July and this is where I'm asking now what role is for the scrutiny board to look at make some give me some strategic stairs on various issues within that plan and there'll be a report coming to you for that but I think that's the what I'm really looking for is a positive input from the board on that and to give us some stairs and some clear direction decisions we need to make on that the third one biodiversity I think we're doing well on that we need to do more and I'm looking at the board to advise give us some sphere there's obviously some of it can be controversial I think we just need to decide what the board steer on that is I didn't meet with some group of residents who were concerned about you know no Mo May and when we had the meeting with Chris Barr they were actually very surprised and they criticised us for not being vocal enough about what we actually are doing towards biodiversity so I think maybe we are hiding our being a bit shy about our progress in that thing on that though I'm just recently I'm just interesting in green prescribing and the office are exploring that we'll explore that with the public health team and see whether we can do some green prescribing with the GPs as part of biodiversity and the theme of our whole biodiversity and climate change about co-benefits it's not just about you know reducing carbon it's about the co-benefits making this place a better place to live in leading by example and taking people with us and that's what we need to do the local plan will progress you know you know I I just you know in July last year I made a decision-making session where we outlined how we're going to deal with greenbelt applications and that's gives us some control and I think we you know we're at the moment we've written the inspector and that's been respected to give us some further advice how we can progress the local plan in line with the new NPPF guidance and tree planting continues we're doing a lot more you know we're doing another 25,000 this year we're on track we're working we're looking forward to working partners and also quite keen to our community orchards as well where possible and I think that's about it for my being chairman so happy to take any questions thank you Councillor Makovitch Councillor McLachlan first thank you chair I'm glad to hear that the update wasn't triggered by use of the word study hall local plan and so I will jump in firstly on on that subject yeah when or how soon we expect to see progress on this because I know that we've been we've been waiting for a long while there have now been significantly a significant number of applications in the greenbelt as I asked you understanding order rate of for council there are further applications coming in next to putting the blithe ward and next to Shirley south I'm sure Councillor Burrows would probably be well aware of how many have gone in in in his ward already the concern I have is those applications going in have no control from the policies within the local plan so we've got the worst of both worlds which is the sites being released from the greenbelt without any of the benefits of the policies an example of one which I would have or two that I would have been in favour of is how we were delivering affordable housing within the local plan and secondly also the assessment of primary care services that takes place within the within the emerging local plan how long do we have to wait because the concern is that a significant number of the greenbelt sites are going to be released and determined before this plan is actually active well we don't it's not it's in the inspectors court but I think I look at it completely different from you Councillor McLachlin I think we may have the best of both worlds rather than worst of both worlds because in my decision-making session to actually allow housing to be built in the greenbelt there has to be exceptional need and exceptional circumstances proven we've outlined how those circumstances are proven and therefore the planning committee can insist on all the benefits that are that we want from that on a development so we're actually in no worse off because the planning committee are have got more can actually refuse if they don't feel the test the primary test of exceptional benefit has been proven and in the July decision session of 2023 there is a clear protocol on how you will prove that exceptional need so I think we've got the best of both worlds actually I'm not I don't think your view on this is correct you know we're still we're still going to protect the greenbelt we're still protecting the greenbelt we're still having housing coming through in the plan so I think we're not at all in any crisis or bad shape we're in a good position at the moment overall if I could just add to that Councillor Makovitch the planning committee can also give some weight to the provisions in the emerging local plan is that not right that is absolutely right yes so the so the emerging plan it still has weight in the planning system as well as the existing current active plan you're absolutely right Councillor Pinwell so yeah there's not gonna be a free-for-all in the greenbelt thank you Councillor McLachlan thank you chair obviously I mean there is there is there is limited weight that is given to it and we can't can't ensure that the policies within the emerging local plan are adhered to by a developer the the concern I have is at the moment you've said that it's at the gift of the inspector but the inspector is written four times to to you asking how you wish to proceed and it seems to be that we write back to him saying well we're not sure how do you want to proceed and it seems to be this standoff that's been going on and as during that period of time there isn't there aren't the protections of those plans from the emerging local plan and there isn't the protection of the of the greenbelt because we've seen a higher rate of applications in the greenbelt since May last year than I think we've we've seen in well definitely in my time as a Councillor and probably I think in most people's experience of Salihon okay trying to get compact the first point is of others weight it can should be given to the emerging local plan any application the greenbelt is still a greenbelt application and the control of the applications within the planning committee that's the point people need to know the control of the application is to win the gift of the planning committee and they will determine it and if you look at all the applications we've had I can't remember exactly the figure but roughly over 97% of those applications in the greenbelt are on sites that are already in the proposed greenbelt sign they will and the planning committee can insist on net zero homes and benefits and that's it so I don't think I think you know I don't know I don't know where you and I had to explain this but we are in total control of our greenbelt at the moment because we have a protocol we have benefits we're we're and and and applications coming forward we're in a good position here and I think Robert is and then so in a good position there now what's the second point you made was I can't remember the second point I mean the argument you've just made basically sort of invalidates any purpose of the local plan the second point that I was making is when are we going to see progress on it because I mean you're saying if we're in complete control of what happens in the greenbelt without a local plan what was the justification for the local plan in the first place but the point that I was making is that you've said that it's in the inspector's hands the inspector has repeatedly written to you to say how do you wish to proceed so it's when are you going to proceed and what well which do you wish to proceed well if you if you looked the inspector his first view was that we should he doesn't think we can deliver 500 houses on the greenbelt site in the at the NEC and then he said because of delays we will have to find another 1700 houses in the greenbelt and we're not prepared to do that we're giving up enough greenbelt land as it is and we can we feel we can deliver in places like the NEC which is brownfield and appropriate and sustainable that's the argument and since we had the MPPF we asked the inspector to review and then reply to us we've now had further we've had a further letter to him asking him can you and we gave him a suggestion that you should review the proposed local plan in light of the new MPPF to a public consult to a consult examination in public so we're not you know it is in his court he's going to come back and say yes or no you can you can say no your plan your plan could be unacceptable or not or or or meters halfway but it's in his court he has already written back to you to say that the changes in the MPPF are not applicable to when did he do that when did he do that do you want me to find the do you want me to find the date was it February from the inspector was to say that the the the the changes to the MPPF that you had written in the previous letter were not applicable to this because this is a plan that was already in the process so we've written a letter since then I think just after the election I believe Perry can you help me out on that very thank you chair yes we've the council was sent two letters since the last letter the inspector wrote to us and that they were proposals in those letters for how we think the inspector could take a view on how the examination could be restarted and part of that includes the suggestion of further evidence related to the supply of land that has potential due to the applications that you made reference to Councillor McLachlan there so I think one was in February the 14th of February I think from memory and there's one earlier this month as well any further questions members Councillor Thomas in the carbon budget there was a reference to sort of medium high and low levels of investment in I suppose delivering actions that were tangibly going to reduce our carbons emissions such as LED lighting in our leisure centres and putting covers on our swimming pools which obviously have that also the benefits of generating reductions in our utility bills so it's a bit of spend to save at the time it wasn't really clear whether we were going to get the investment to be able to do items like this do we have any further clarity on whether we will be investing in measures like those this year well what I've learned in this field is once we have a plan the money will come from grants or things and officers are extremely good at finding grants and obviously if it's a spend to save we have to look at it through the financial MTFS so I don't know whether Perry wants to add to that he can Perry thank you chair I think some external funding has been secured for certainly the pool covers is my understanding and some further works at leisure sporting facilities I'm not sure about the details on the others but we do the council does have a carbon reserve budget and that's been deployed as well this year in line with the priorities that were set out in the report that you make reference to the went to the budget strategy group thank you very much unless there are a counselor Feeney thank you I just wanted to ask a question about trees if I may and it's great that we're on track with our tree planting goals I've been doing quite a bit of work in around urban forestry up in Castle Bromwich so I've learned a little bit about this now the one I wouldn't say it's a concern but I didn't realize quite how many of these were actually quick trees are very very small things that take quite a long time to to grow but also that they have I believe around about a 10% failure rate so I mean is there a proposal to backfill that as they go but also the the slightly more mature trees are sort of seven or eight or nine year old ones that we see being planted in grass verges and parts and things I didn't realize excuse me that they carried quite the cost that they do and I was wondering if any work was being done around that to make us a little more self-sustaining the conversation I was trying to have was around tree nurseries as in growing our own rather than paying what we are presently for some semi-matured trees. Councillor Maccovitch. On the latter point sorry I'm having a bit of buffering here but hopefully you can hear me but on the latter point yes we're Chris Barr and the team are looking at a way of doing growing our own trees as well because it makes it's sustainable it makes it makes us more robust and rather than importing trees actually to grow trees locally makes a lot of ecological and environmental sense so we are looking at that. I wouldn't worry too much about the whips Alan because I many years ago I mean Councillor Court planted whips in Catherine's Wood in Balsall Common if you go there now it's quite a mature a mature area and it's still young but it's still very actively growing and it really looks really good and we also make bare in mind is that there's a succession as well in nature you start off with you know birch trees and eventually oaks will grow if there is a progress where a hierarchy of succession as trees develop but I hope that answers your point but yeah we'll take your point on board and we're going to carry on and the overall plan which I set out three or four years ago in my statement of council and the other forums actually and I said in 100 years because I think you've got to think long term if you never make that statement you're not going to make it you won't make a start in 100 years I would hope that everyone in in the borough will be a 15-minute walk from a wood where they can relax and get better mental health that's a long-term project very long term Councillor Sharma thank you just a quick one on biodiversity you know we saying we will boost biodiversity and adopt natural capital investment strategy but on in terms of biodiversity BNG is a quite hot topic across the board in the whole country are we setting up any goals like how much we want to boost biodiversity and but it entails or for include or is it going to be boosted by 10% 20% is there anything we are planning for oh yes that's a good question I missed the first part of your question Councillor Sharma because yet again some buffering but biodiversity net gain we have a policy way before even this of 110% biodiversity net gain as a we were a pilot scheme and so we've been operating it now we've got a new metric from from the government department which is to be fair it's difficult to use but people are getting their hands around it so yes we're 110% net biodiversity gain as per statute I wish it was 111% biodiversity gain but the key thing on that though we've also set up two biodiversity banks in the borough where if developers can't deliver on their on their biodiversity net gain in their development whether they're in inside the borough or outside they can actually contribute to these biodiversity banks as well so I think we're on that hopefully that's answered your question do come back if you want to know more thank you I see no more indications so we'll draw that section to a close at that point and a further thank you to you for interrupting your trip and joining us remotely tonight the line has held up quite well I think given the distance so thank you very much indeed and if I may I'll leave now if I may indeed thank you very much and so we move on then to Councillor Hawkins and your portfolio please yeah thank you it make me feel bad well not but I was on holiday last week and I didn't tune into stronger and safer communities during my holiday there we are anyway yeah thank you very much congratulations Councillor on your on your appointment as well the priorities there at 3.4 and and then and anything else I'll take questions okay thank you very much Councillor Thomas when do you think the a 45,000 Parkway Junction scheme is going to come forwards I know it's down there on your priorities but it's not clear on timing yeah that's what's been in the plan for the what's called across the city regional sustainable transport plan a funding but for a while so that will be come forward sometime this year it's but that's obviously with funding from the combined Authority and Department of Transport yeah just being you say the construction probably start next year the but there'll be consultation this year it's very much like the Chester Road eight four five two you know the consultations ongoing and they'd be decision soon Councillor McLachlan thank you chair and apologies for being parochial in the sense of focusing on something in in my ward but it's also in your ward as well so you become hopefully be quite grateful the Dickens safe to sell your town centre in walking cycling route that's a present there's always been a little bit of contention about it and part of it goes there's a dogleg that goes from blossom fields of Cranmore I've basically been speaking to officers and saying actually the route should be going through Hillfield Park and improve improving the infrastructure from the Costa coffee through into Hillfield Park so that people can cycle and walk more safely because I'm sure is regular cyclists to cancel the Thomas generally people prefer to go routes that are through parks rather than down busy roads and I know when I was cycling into council I would have gone through Tudor Grange where possible rather than down the blossom field road and I know that if there are parents who are moving into the new development on the green they would probably feel more comfortable sending their children through Hillfield Park to get to the schools off white fields rather than going down Cranmore and across Whitney Lane or down blossom field so I just wanted to ask whether or not that is something that you're happy to look at and proceed but to try and improve the cycling walking infrastructure I think you'll know from obviously Hillfield Park it's fantastic how many people walk and cycle and it doesn't cause conflict on the pavement there everyone's very well behaved and I think it's just the fact that it's inaccessible from one of the sides of the park in Shirley South and there's recreational and there's also part of our ideal is to promote walking and cycling to locations such as schools and workplaces and I suspect although I won't be wholly correct it's a you know going from dock in a lane to Hillfield through Hillfield Park wouldn't be a great one to go to but to go to the colleges and the railway station in Sully Hall but it's still an option and it's still something that could be looked at and I know you went to the seminar the dropping event that Taylor Wimpey had last week but I've been speaking to them for several years and they're aware of my asks in relation to improving cycling and walking away from that they've got some great ideas for on-site but even even away from site there but so there's two issues there and whether some Section 106 contributions from them could contribute towards Hillfield Park but there's also a case like for the project the main one is for Dickens Heath now Dickens Heath you know if you go to Dickens Heath to the town centre you want to cycle on the dinette route not via Hillfield Park but there's horses of course in here so you know we could end up having both in the fullness of time thank you chair and the in terms of getting from from Hillfield over to the college and so basically you would be going down Monks Pathall Road and you'd be cutting through Tudor Grange parks you've got two parks on your on your route if you're going from there so I think it's either down there or down across through Whitefields and you've got quite quiet roads that people can get into the town centre via when people are making decisions around cycling and walking it isn't always the shortest distance it's very often that either the most scenic or the safest and I think the problem that we have with the current cycling and walking strategy is you've got problematic points to get across the Stratford Road and also to join the Stratford Road and Blossomfield up there is no good route through Widney you've got very tight pavements where it's shared walking space and Cranwell Boulevard is not a road that people are going to feel hugely safe going down because of the volume and the nature of the traffic goes down there it's lots of heavy goods vehicles I think people would all feel a lot happier and safer going through the park and also the more people use the parks the better it is for all of us so I think that's that was just why I was trying to restress that point thank you chap yeah I have to disagree in part with you there because I mean I don't think you're saying that teenagers from or even people of working age from Dickens Heath should cycle down Dockhinner Lane from Montsathor Road through the park Hillfield Park and Tudor Grange Park to get to the railway station or the or the Blossomfield campus you know that's probably putting something about a mile out the way you need to make it accessible and that's all part of not only our strategy but the government's walking and cycling strategy as well but there's no reason why we can't map that as an option for people to choose that and it's still an accessible route now and if those developments on Dockhinner Lane do come forward there will be extra crossing facilities for cycling across the Stratford Road and then there's a footpath down through the go through the brook through the tunnel and into the park there so and there's also another there's a cycle route although it's only a marked route with white line down Highlands Road into the into the Cranmore Business Park as well so there's all these things will add up together thank you Councillor Hawkins so you're saying in effect that the long-term aspiration is to create a network that is yeah that's the case but we need to take people with us you know I would like at the end of the day you know the the answer to is just discuss this a little bit with with also comment and induced demand for traffic but more cars will go there but don't forget it's congestion that will actually destroy any economic and leisure benefits but for the borough and public transport is is will is the main is the main answer to our net zero targets as well but cycling and walking has a part to play giving people an option giving people an option from from Dickensey from Cheswick Green in my ward from Knoll in your ward to get into the town centre and do but they're not people aren't going to go people aren't going to go cycling to the to Morris from from for Knoll of the a41 to Morrison's for their monthly shop that they're not going to do that but people can cycle for all the other other more local more local means and it's given people that option and because we don't do anything the roads will just be congested within the next 10 years thank you Councillor fitter thank you so last year the gate lane cycle route was shelved so are there any plans to do a different route linking Nolan Dorridge to Blove Valley and so we're going back that gate gate lane gate lane route being cancelled what happened to the sort of funding that was allocated that has that gone back in the pot for the extra projects this year no that's been spent this allocated funding if it uh and actually the uh that that pot was for uh for from Blive Valley to Monks path and or uh dotage and because the dotage leg didn't take effect it was there's a few extra things were doing on the Stratford road link uh and so that's that that's been spent there's no more money uh for that route now and that was straightforward section 106 funding of the development of uh houses on um on Blive Valley so thomas yeah um you've just mentioned that public transport is so key more key than walking and cycling towards um achieving the net zero um but yet the only thing you've got on the agenda with regards or your priorities for this year with regards to that are finishing the sprint to skate part of the phase two of the sprint scheme what else are you going to be doing to improve the public transport take up i know that um on your work plan there's uh something about the the bus transport now i i would suspect at the moment that's going to be held in abeyance to to determine what the the mayor his plans are for public transport uh so i think that you see it's up in the air in relation to that um but uh but but let's be clear about if public transport is the better public better public transport more effective public transport that is the key to uh to helping uh to digest our road roads and helping the the the air quality of our main roads uh so the answer to that i suppose is partly i'm not sure what's going to happen but i think because we're dependent on on what the mayor brings forward in his plans okay and what's our stance on the franchising discussion that's going on at the moment i don't think there's any stance on that at the moment uh there there are always like a lot of things that are things uh for it and against it i think you've got to bear in mind uh you see we are talking about public money at the end of the day but we need to make sure that the uh where we are different to a lot of the um the birmingham and black country uh areas is that we have a lot of rural areas that need public transport and uh and i suspect those what those areas aren't as well funded uh economically viable as some others so they need some sort of um some sort of protection uh from centrally to make sure they they they are they are there okay i see no further questions so thank you very much to you councilor hawkins finally to councilor parker your priorities if you please uh thank you chairman um members will be aware that there is much focus on housing uh as a result of the awful glenville fire we had a few years back and this sector is still going through a process of consolidation and my priorities this year is to embed the new regulations that's come out from the regulatory act uh to lay standards and accountability as a landlord and if you look at 3.5 you will see that we will continue to work in partnership with sch ensuring appropriate oversight and assurances gained so that service delivery meets the new regulatory requirements is set out by the social housing regulation act of 2023 which has come in divorce of first of opal this year um i believe that cabinet report will come out uh where we will focus on strengthening the governance arrangements and accountability with sch from a council point of view members may be aware as a cabinet member i am the main person of accountability to the regulator for social housing and i believe a similar appointment will be made for the sch board so i chaired the qnb board meeting last week which we have on a quarterly basis to review the ongoing work by sch and this is also overseen by the sch board whereby we are introducing a number of requirements and work is progressing very well and i can't emphasize enough how much work and effort and focus is going into this for example the complaint handling code which became statutory on the first of opal 2024 this code requires landlords to conduct a yearly self-assessment against the code and produce a service improvement plan the code also requires to publish to residents an annual compliance performance and service improvement report i know i have two new spokespersons for housing and one of us one of them is with us tonight and if i could draw your attention those reports will be available at the cabinet decision sessions one will be held next week and i strongly recommend you to look at previous uh recommend sessions upheld to get you up to speed with the latest information so obviously members will be conscious that will result in a culture change at sch and it will be challenging for everybody and i think it's a good thing to raise standards and raise awareness in problem areas and we see something like this is happening across the country but the next point as well my other priority is to continue to work in partnership with sch ensuring appropriate oversight and assurance is gained for building safety of the council high-rise residential buildings in accordance with the building safety act 2022 which is also another thing that's been brought out from that wall for her fire work is ongoing fire doors are being inspected and replaced or updated or checked over members may be aware the sprinkler systems is pretty much in place it's not a statutory requirement to do so but it's something we have done i think there are only something like 73 properties that we still need to access to complete a sprinkler system project we will do that as the uh residential flats become void also continue to deliver year one plan priorities for the housing and rust sleeping strategy as you all know we made great strides in this area we had i think a scrutiny event on this last year this has been approved and updated earlier this year my capital decision session um it's a good thing i'd like to think we don't have a major issue with uh people who are sleeping in our bola i do know figures do vary between two and six obviously i don't want to see any at all um but work is ongoing on there and also the other thing as well we're focusing on is the fact we're trying to prevent uh the the emerging issue of becoming homeless uh which is just as important as becoming homeless itself uh so prevention and uh through the great work of saint basil's is is ongoing and that's good and we have opened a new hub at chamsey wood uh library uh earlier this year so that's a good thing um also to review and deliver year two priorities this set out a housing strategy with a particular focus on a supported accommodation strategy in line with a supported housing regulatory oversight act of 2023 this is another thing that's come out uh continue to maximize affordable housing delivering funding opportunities um the leader of the green party may be aware of previous cabinet meetings we held that we managed to purchase further properties uh to house some of the refugees um but the long-term plan is to return those properties into the sch fold so we have received funding from the government in that respect when we do get central government funding the time scales are very tight to spend that money on purchasing as any other government funding uh so i'd just like to say well done to the officers for the hard work in achieving that we have actually exceeded the target in what we set to in terms of purchasing the properties across the borough um also to deliver the council housing asset management management strategy 2023 to 20 2033 ongoing focus is going on with specially high-rise buildings about the long-term viability obviously it's prudent that we have a long-term plan and that's something i would like to see in terms of redeveloping or getting a demolition box of that this is something we just did start to do in the late 80s early 1990s but the costs were prohibiting but i do think we do need to look at that in the long-term plan because the returns on older properties is not as good as it should be because of the aging nature of the properties etc also to continue to maximize retro retrofit funding and deliver projects alleviate fuel poverty and increase energy efficiency of homes across all 10 years i think members are well aware that we are doing that i think most of our properties apart from a small handful there's no reach category c we will also have a housing allocations policy review and a tennessee policy review as well on those two last two points i don't have any particular details on that the reports will be coming out on so really uh priorities this year is a period of consolidation bedding the requirements for the regulation at and to make sure that we adhere to those requirements and to make sure we deliver a better safer social housing for our people in the borough thank you Councillor parker questions Councillor mclaughlin thank you chair um and also i'm sending my thoughts to you because the number of regulations that are coming in it's a it's a very difficult portfolio to have at this time especially given the the backdrop within the financial pressures and a cost of living crisis that we we know puts at risk more people of of need of support of homelessness prevention and i i can see that's why the report heavily focuses on the amount of legislation that needs to be implemented and that's obviously incredibly challenging and i know you've sort of alluded to it that with a couple of little things i mean for example a budget very much support and speaking support of the the policy which is bringing somehow acquisitions of some properties that then go into the general that general stock ultimately will help reduce waiting times for housing but i guess the two questions that people will be asking is will it be quicker for people to access housing and will the housing be of a better standard and i don't know if you can answer both of those questions that over the next year can people expect it to be quicker to access housing for people on the housing waiting list and will the housing that they receive be of a better standard i think that's a big million dollar question that everyone's asking around the uk um i think it's worth pointing out that our housing stock uh close to 25 of one bedroom stock within our borough there is a particular shortage of three four five six bedroom properties with the recent acquisitions with government funding we have tried to buy the properties i don't have a magic wand for that unfortunately in an ideal world you know i would love people to access housing straight away but there are over a million people on the housing list in this country so we do have a very big challenge in our borough it's just not a problem unique here but it's happening elsewhere as well but i do believe there is a review on housing allocations on that to make the system fairer i think the consultation ascended and the government is reviewing that i'm not going to say this new fairer system that the government may bring out will result in quicker access to housing but it certainly will be fairer unfortunately i think really our overall objective is increase the supply of social housing that is what i want but i think it's going to be a long term thing i think in this instance we do know that the right to buy has depleted our housing stock but not just here but across the uk yes we will aspire to home ownership but i think it's come to the point now where we do need to have a multi-housing model to effect solutions as best we can and i'm sorry max i can't give you those definite answers but it's something i would like us as a council to work towards to make better and i can understand people's frustrations i do have residents contacting me in my own ward i'm not sure other councillors as well trying to help them go through that allocation process councilor thomas uh based on what you've just said um we've currently got planning applications in for new sch houses on dalesford road in campden green in my ward linden now everything that's been previously developed by sch certainly since i've been a councillor has all been sold as shared ownership is the plan for those then to be socially rented properties i can't answer that specific question i don't want to guess it but i don't know whether satnam might be able to advise on that and thank you council parker i don't know off the top of my head but i can find out thank you um and other questions i actually did want initially intend to ask um you've put the comment maximize affordable housing delivery what does this actually mean how many affordable and i know affordable isn't actually affordable to anyone but so-called affordable houses how many are we expecting to deliver well that's a big question because obviously it all depends on the housing supply i can't give you that specific answer um now obviously you may be aware and i'm sure if you've done your homework with the good work that the wmca has done regarding to redeveloping brandville sites across the west midlands we have smashed housing targets in the black country in the industrialized areas but yes we do have a shortage of redevelop land in our borough because obviously we are keen to to protect the green belt but where we can we will do redevelop those sites now we're not going to be able to supply hundreds and hundreds of homes but i do believe the key beyond the borders of our bar to supply affordable housing is through redevelopment of banfield sites thank you uh you know i was reading through the last minutes and you know looking at the maximize the affordable housing delivery is there any plan for the innovation you know any prefabricated housing you know you mentioned about that acquisition of the housing was very quick and the timeline was very minimal uh to spend the money i think if we go through the root of prefabrication modular housing it is very quick way you know innovation is always helpful is there any plan for that um it's a very good point if you go to king source a lot of the housing being built as part of that king source regeneration project are modular somewhat they are prefabricated using build prefabricated sections where they are building homes so yes that is a way forward and they are net zero homes as well interesting i saw an article yesterday where it's a particular issue in london where they are bringing out or reconverting shipping containers i'm not sure i will be keen on that but they are looking at all models but it's something we are doing in king source as well and it's more affordable as well yes i'd like to support my colleague on that a large number of councils are using prefabricated things which are basically just swung onto sites um and they are not shipping containers they are proper they're accommodation i'd like to live in put it like that i'd be willing to live in so um and i think i supplied some information to one of your officers and i must admit the response i got did not fill me full of hope and we do have land we have car parks and garages that are not used in our community housing i suspect with some innovative thought we could release some of that land out to put such buildings on and i'm not talking about doing it the american way where you just stick it on the tarmac and dump people in and leave them we can actually make them nicer than that and and i think we should seriously look at this and we could perhaps fund this and i don't know whether this is legally possible but within my ward we're going to get about 800 affordable homes if you believe the solihull plan 40 well i never believe that 40 because the developers always come back and say oh we can't afford that and but we could maybe get them to cough up money so we could build housing elsewhere on our brownfield sites that we release from garages it's not a total solution but there is no total solution this is made up of little bits here and little bits there and you know within my ward one of the parish council said that piece of land there affordable housing they put it in their ndp it's just gone through planning committee 100 affordable homes and to me that that's helpful you know that kind of number of houses is helpful and you know we've got to look everywhere and we can't afford to have officers saying oh i don't like the idea of prefabricate without actually looking at it and i think we ought to set up a proper study to actually have a look at it and see whether we can really make this work because if bark it um there was barns in london i think it was but certainly corn would have done it which was the example i you know i actually got onto the housing supply said tell me how much this would cost i actually got the cost to hold them in lot and we don't actually need foundations we got them it's tarmac it's there you just stick the buildings on we can have these in in a year and i take it comments on board councilor burrow i can assure you some garage sites have been redeveloped in the past and there were certainly some areas within sherley east i think last i heard there was something like 7 000 garages but it might be less than that not all of them are utilized a lot of them do have asbestos roofs etc and i did hear that a lot of those sites are not suitable for redevelopment due to infrastructure utility connections etc but i do take your comments on board i don't know whether perry wants to add anything to that i'm not sure that there's a lot i can add to it to be perfectly honest i can't remember but you know if you want us to look at specific opportunities as part of the work that you you've already talked about i'm sure that we will be doing that so i don't know if anything further you'd like to say i'm not okay thank you thank you perry and obviously as members you do have the opportunity to put any items on the work plan as well if you want to do that yes okay so thomas karen yeah so i've done quite a lot of work with regards to garage sites in london and that's why things like campston campden green and dalesford road are coming around there are a number of other garage sites within london some of which have some quite nuisance to residents anti-social behavior and there's one i think we fought tooth and nail for to try and get developed so that it stops being anti-social behavior problem magnets and what we found is that a lot of them can't be redeveloped due to the back-to-back distances to the other properties so they were built in the 70s and a lot of them got quite small gardens so therefore the back-to-back the properties are very very close and unfortunately i think my whilst it's a really quite large garage area the one that i really like to see developed i think probably about the best thing we could actually build on it is probably two maybe six bed houses or maybe two five bed houses but then sch tell me that that doesn't financially stack up so actually some of its service provision is the other problem that the services aren't rooted in the right place for the areas to be developed economically but that's certainly what i found when i had it explored quite extensively in london council mclaughlin yeah and just just to supplement it's kind of partly in support but the other end of that that side with the prefabrication and materials i know with the leader when he was on the cabinet cabinet portfolio holder for managed growth and council macovitz when housing was part of his portfolio i had been speaking to both of them about alternative delivery models in relation to prefabrication not only just for the for the build costs and the energy performance of the bit of the building but also the fact that you can tie it into the circular economy renewable materials so reducing the embodied carbon within that so i do think that that's something that i've been recommending and i know that when it was redditch cooperative housing and accord some of the housing associations have done very good developments using using that scheme and when they're building it from the from the ground up they can actually design communities as well as as houses that people can decide not just decide where the walls go but kind of how that how will they live within a community before they move in so i think there are it's a massive problem as you were saying there's no one single magic bullet there are lots of different things that are needed for different kind of sections of the problem of people who are unable to access housing via the market yes thank you for that uh council mcclachlan and i'll take your comments on board and i will feed that back um and i'm sure as a step forward that we will see more pre-fabricated buildings going up of course it's not the first time this has happened you know we've seen pre-babs set up after the second world war you know to ease the housing pressures and some of it is still standing in wakering road so yes that will be one of the steps forward and hopefully when the kings earth house is open for occupation that'd be a great opportunity to underline through um press and so on the benefits of pre-fabrication and the way soil's used it one would imagine council sharma thanks here uh just to support the discussion uh council parker you know coming as a civil engineer charter civil engineer yeah there are various benefits on on the prefab because we can adopt a small medium large uh model as well you know if it is a two-bedroom three-bedroom or four-bedroom and innovation always drive the efficiency and efficiency means money money means the budget is more affordable so i think if we go that way and if we can see some strategy around it and if you can guide your officers to bring something in the next meeting will be great uh you know i think it can drive a lot of efficiency uh in in this in this part and thank you for that council sharma and i think that's something you could raise with the work plan or something to look at as part of your economic work plan and i think that would be something worth looking into okay thank you very much any other topics any different topics that anyone wants to ask a question on kansas thomas yeah i just wanted to ask again you've commented maximize retrofit funding um what is the likely output that we're going to see how many properties do we think we're going to retrofit or improve the energy efficiency of in 24 25 so you're going to see a lot of things that we're going to see in the next couple of weeks. Right i think that brings that presentation to a close thank you very much councilor parker. We now move on to the next item on the agenda which is to look at the work program for the rest of the municipal year i'm going to propose that we take this in two parts the first part is to look at the plan for each of the meetings in the remainder of the program and i also want to touch on task and finish groups as a separate item because we have an outstanding task and finish group from last year and i want to ask the question of whether we have any task and finish work put into the program for this year so the presentations this evening have set out the priorities of each of the cabinet members and that may have triggered some thoughts amongst you members of items which really we would like to see in the work program and maybe even items that are currently in the draft that you think maybe they need to be in the draft just to explain that the draft comes from work during last year's program where the board has noted that it would like topics to come back again during this year or that we had a conversation between ourselves at the conclusion of last municipal year to flesh out what we thought really was our latest thinking at that stage for the program do you have anything to add jane in terms of introducing this topic not really chairman i was just going to highlight you've obviously heard the priorities from the cabinet portfolios so that may influence what you're going to discuss i know there are two new members on the board who weren't privy to the discussions that took place um at the last meeting this is an opportunity for you to explore what you've put down so far um it's not tablets of stone it can change the thing i will stress is um capacity um to do justice to um reports if you have too many on the agenda you're not going to be able to do that so just bear that in mind when when you're thinking about um adding it may be you want to add something you need to take something away or move it to a different meeting but throughout the year you can revisit this and um change it as you need right counselor thomas you want to start us off yeah um i noticed that although it's one of the leader's key priorities town centre master plan is not up for renew a review you can say that again i noticed that male square is not up for scrutiny but this might be one of the leader's key priorities so i do think that probably seeing as it's so key to the future of the town should be up for up as an item um other one but a little bit left field but probably one of my biggest veins as a ward counselor public realm maintenance and just how we do it why we do it why we don't do enough of it that kind of thing is that within the scope of this board perry i think it's probably more than the scope of the community's board i thought you might say that yeah i'm not saying it's not a good suggestion i just don't think it was in the room matter of this board but the male square one certainly male square one definitely is yes in terms of the design of the scheme obviously any financial considerations and other matters would be a matter for resources i think in connection to that are you going to speak in terms of mel square or something different councilor feeney uh no as chair of communities i'm happy to have that brought through my board if you like i'm as it happens i was taking one of the officers round castle bromwich yesterday and something i was picking up on was public realm maintenance uh as in signposts missing wonky bollards things that need refreshed all the stuff that just makes it look a bit untidy and we just need to keep on top of so i'd be delighted to have a piece of work like that come through communities excellent there you are councilor thomas what a result right can it can i before we change to any other topics can i ask is there a consensus on mel square that it would be good to see it in the program can i just check with offices sort of time wise what are we looking at i'd need to check with my property colleagues and and advise i think so i don't think you could plate it tonight to be perfectly honest with you so to be added but meeting date to be confirmed yep good thank you sorry i did you want to add anything no no i was just saying i agreed with council thomas's suggestion right okay council mclaughlin um thank you chair um it's actually and i'm conscious of what um what what what jane came said um about not you know eyes not being bigger than our bellies on certain items but there is one and it might be that it rolls into something else but it actually came up from uh councilor hawkins uh portfolio the like the local cycling and walking infrastructure plan obviously as councilor fitter mentioned there have been changes gate lane was dropped um and we were talking about whether or not there are differences that need to be made because we've never reconciled the issue of marshall lake road cramwell cramwell boulevard there's been obviously emerging changes that have gone on and i think that's relevant to not just the portfolio but probably a lot of the wards that people are representing as well so i think it's you know that's a key part for the future and the other reason why i think it's really timely is with the number of developments that are going on the one kind of silver lining that gets offered for people off those developments is the section 106 or community infrastructure levy that allows us to to fund or facilitate those routes if they aren't down beforehand in terms of what's needed then that money doesn't ever come in from those developments for that purpose and so i think that the reason why i'm saying is i's not being too big for the belly it looks like it fits perfectly into the september one apart from the fact there's already three items on that on that meeting it does fit perfectly into the 19th of september um and can we agree that we make a note of that and between myself as chair perry and democratic services support we will look at that and see how we might frame that meeting on the 19th of september is that all right with you so we will we will aim to fit it in council mclaughlin because i think you're right councilor burrow i've just wondered whether this railway ticket office thing is still as relevant and as important as it was given the proposals to adjust railway ticket offices have been canned um and i can't see them ever coming up again um but we do actually have some more other very important items we want to get council thomas this is yours is this still such the burning platform that it was do you think i think it depends because i mean when we discussed this scrutiny last time yeah we everyone was talking about oh you know we are going to still can them we're just going to trial you know an oyster style technology oyster card style technology instead so if we're canning that as well as keeping the ticket officers it probably doesn't need to exist but if we wanted that wider discussion around fairing and other paying and what is the direction of travel with regards to train fares then maybe it's still pertinent and whether we could also maybe at the same time discuss the frequency of rail services within solihull that would also be quite useful it seems to me that we can't do railway ticket offices or local bus network without colleagues from west midlands combined authority um probably not the local transport plan either um and ticketing accessibility of ticketing flexibility of ticketing transferability of tickets between different modes of transport is absolutely central to a sound forward strategy on transport with across the west midlands and and within that you know we would have the right people to discuss not only the frequency of services and the accessibility of services but also the ticketing infrastructure that goes with it so i think you know there's there's a very round discussion to pull people in from the combined authority in for a good look at the strategic in that plan in that holistic sense yeah um you're absolutely right chair in terms of the support that we we would need on that um it might be that we could look it's part of this the point you made a moment ago we need to craft this into something but it could be that it could be a broader sort of public transport look which could include both rail and bus network and and the sort of the arrangements around that and then the ticketing is a theme across both of those sort of modes as well so that could probably make it a bit more manageable and a little bit more thematic i think so we can have a look at that i think it's part of the conversation you looked into earlier on okay talk to the west millions colleagues about thank you perry great this isn't this is a more general one because i'm i know and it's just talking from experience and you might you might agree with me one of the concerns that that we have and what's may be impacted as previously is when we have the work work program it ends up being a bit like a snow plow in that stuff gets sort of rolled back or something doesn't come in time for it um and i'm just looking that what could scupper our work plan for the year is the there's there's an item for the air quality strategy for the next meeting is the revised housing allocation policy and tenant policy for that meeting because there's no date next to it and if we only have one item there it's sort of hamstringing this for the for the rest of the program chairman um you'll have to forgive me because i wasn't privy to the discussions um when you discuss this program um that we have before us but the 17th of july you've got the air quality strategy the revised housing allocation date to be confirmed and the climate change scorecard i don't know whether it was ever intended that those all those items go on the 17th of july or not and in terms of the housing allocations policy yeah the intention is to bring it to the 17th of july meeting and we anticipate the climate scorecard um being able to be considered then as well i must confess i assumed that the color coding meant that uh it was slated for that meeting sorry okay are there any other observations then about the work program or with those decisions on a mel square and b um cycle routes in transport in general that we move forward on that basis i think that's something chairman that we can discuss and see once we have an opportunity to um tweak what we're talking about tonight we can certainly look at that yeah i think we should do yes and to make an early decision on that if we can thank you okay right so let me move on to the um business task and finish groups then um those are on the board last year will know that four of us formed a task and finish group which was effectively held as a joint group between our scrutiny board and the children's and employment and skills or whatever it calls itself henry scrutiny board um and looked at the business of skills and employment and uh that was pushed very much towards the back end of the year the way the timetable worked out to the point that we only just finished the work as a team before the start of perder and now there is drafting in progress and the objective will be to have that ready and agreed by the four of us that sat on the team before the july meeting of this board that will be the objective and we will make recommendations that come out of the study work that was supported by the many witnesses that we as a team um talked to and i would hope that uh fellow members of the team would agree that it was quite an insightful exercise um that uh was um very useful in terms of telling us what the current situation was um what was working extremely well um and how that could be built upon um the question then comes to my mind um do we hold a task and finish group this year and um if new members don't know what a task and finish group is it's an opportunity for members for a subset of the board basically to take an in-depth look at a particular topic with the benefit of discussion with external witnesses and council officers and amongst ourselves and to um take the lid off a topic look at it quantitatively and qualitatively and come up with some deeper recommendations that are achieve than are achievable in the context of a an hour on average um if if that uh discussion at one of these board meetings um informed by an officer's report i have a suggestion to make um others may have a suggestion to make others may think that it's just a bad idea and we've got plenty on so let's not do it um but my idea and i would like to pitch to you is to take a look at the housing market now we've already touched on that tonight from the angle of a certain section of housing but my argument would be that housing is absolutely fundamental to economic development and managed growth and that there are some issues in the housing market within the borough um that are very complex and not easy to fix not least because of the way that developers look at it if i was to say to you that there were some properties within town centre of solihull that sold for under a hundred thousand pounds in the last 12 months would that surprise you but there are why are there properties that sold for less than a hundred thousand pounds in the last 12 months and the answer is because they are properties that are restricted for occupation and purchase by those who are senior in years where there appears anecdotally to be a very substantial glut in the market and yet we are still getting planning applications for the development of development development sites for the purposes of more senior citizen accommodation at the same time the accessibility of the housing market to first-time buyers is getting further and further out of reach nationally i keep hearing and reading in the papers that there is a problem that people who have had their offspring fly the nest and no longer need four bedroom homes three bedroom homes aren't downsizing and freeing them up for first-time buyers and at the same time i hear from people in my ward and i don't know whether you do as well that they would love to downsize but can't find properties that are suitable for them because they don't want to move into what the developers are building for people who want to downsize and meanwhile at the same time developers are grabbing up every bungalow that they can do and putting a second story on it so there's a very complex picture there and i'm sure that some of you could add to other little aspects of the housing market that are not possibly working as smoothly as they would so as they could so that is my suggestion that it might be valuable for us to take an in-depth look at that subject in the form of a task and finish group get a group together and get the officers that understand this complex model in to talk to us and get developers in to talk to us and get state agents to talk to us or whoever externally could shed light on what is going wrong get managers of senior living developments in to talk to us and explain why they have the under occupancy that they do and why the housing market in that sector has not at all kept pace with the price rises in the rest of the market your thoughts please Councillor Thomas yeah i think two questions or points for me i'm not necessarily adverse to doing this because i do think we have a problem and i do think there are issues um i think the last time that housing and affordable housing came to scrutiny we did quite an in-depth dig into why we couldn't certainly why we couldn't board build houses more cheaply which came down to land price in solihill primarily and i'm genuinely not sure what we as a task and finish group could possibly do to reduce that or tackle that so i just wonder how much we could achieve there the other question i suppose is given the way that the country's planning system currently works it's very difficult for us to reject every time someone comes and proposes a new senior retirement complex it's really difficult for us to reject it so i suppose again if we conclude that yes solihill have got too many which is my opinion because i'm fed up of being invited to go and view properties that i am sure are suitable for a family of four with children or not but we definitely have too much of it but i suppose the question i suppose will we have the power to get i suppose what i'm trying to ask is will we if we do just do anything in depth on this will we have the power to actually affect anything or are we trapped between land prices and national planning regulations certainly land prices is an issue there's no question about that and there's no getting around it however perry my understanding is that the planning system does allow us to say that if there is no need for a proposed development that we are opposed to it is that not the case it's not as straightforward as that no because we we're not you know each district or borough isn't sort of a vacuum if you like in that regard so the markets move across but we do have some control over that and um of course it's not necessarily always a matter of principle sometimes schemes are refused on highways grounds on design grounds and a whole range of matters that aren't principally just about the the need and demand argument um i think actually i mean there's a there's a there's a big question around the housing market and you know basically the related the affordability ratio of local or median earnings which is a big area that's probably going to point back at land there is a maybe a smaller part of what is you know what is going on with retirement living specifically um but that may want to be with um a joint with health and adult social care because i think one of the challenges that is existing isn't just the the the property and the economics of it um because they're i mean part of what feeds into its different finance and funding models you can sell a building and you can sell a maintenance charge for the perpetuity of of it that's much higher than you can on another leasehold property but the bigger issue that we have aside with this is the concentration of the need for care profession professions in areas where and that's a skills element but actually how do we service the demand that gets created within such concentrated areas surely is a real concentration for this and it's really difficult for for some of those places to recruit because it's yes there will be the care but then there's the sort of retirement living and there are still some ancillary services that they often provide around that which still need professions to to go into them so i do think there's maybe something around retirement properties but i don't know if i'm narrowing it down from a focus that other members of the board want to take it to any other thoughts okay so sharba yeah going back to uh what consular thomas said uh you know firstly we need to identify is there any we have any influence on on the decision making or any national level regulations so it's worth thinking about that you know i think we need to look at that but i agree at the same time i agree with you housing is a big issue in solehill borough uh compared to their income uh yeah so and the land prices you know obviously so everything goes parallel so firstly we need to understand are we going to make any difference so then we'll take yeah happy to take it then yeah um i've been looking at this for years actually about leaseholders and um service charges it i'm going back about 25 years and it used to be pretty much some places where okay but i could see how it could become a problem um and now it's kind of the last few years become like a free-for-all that is where the money is um i think there is an act going through though where the um those kind of things are going to be looked at so i'm just wondering that if we look at say the retirement home part of it because housing really is huge what um what really would be the outcome of it what could we actually do to change any of it but i like because i don't think there is really we rely on acts of parliament or whatever to change what we work within but one of the ones that i think that we could i don't know whether you wanted to do this one was the hmo question or um because that's one that you do get people ask you about a lot there doesn't seem to be much regulation around it but the council can put regulation around it i think because there's so many regulations coming out at the minute but i think there's one come out kind of about that um and that would be something that you had a tangible answer to something we could action if you like yeah with your permission i mean it might be that rather than being a task and finish on the retirement properties one of the things that it could be and and so one of the policies that sully hill council has is for allow we we allow for uh buildings with common areas for off-site provision of affordable housing which is one of the reasons why you get some retirement properties because it's built into the planning system from sully hall that we basically say you don't have to do any affordable on here just check us a bit of money via section 106 or sill and we'll maybe not sort it but the idea is that we would their requirement would be met that might not be an entire task and finish but it sounds like there's lots of different spokes off this um and i don't know if that because there are i think what you're right chair there are lots of areas that need covering i think whether or not they're too nebulous and too far removed because i think there's there's definitely something around time at living and there's definitely something around the accessibility to the market for people entering it um how do you knit that together i'm not sure well certainly i would agree with those who have observed that if we are hamstrung by the national system then we are not going to make a difference um i am not aware that the situation is as polarized in other parts of the country as it is in sully hall um if that is the case then maybe it is a result of national constraints that we are where we are but if sully hall is not the same as other areas then or not the same as all other areas then i would think there is something to look at personally councilor sharma yeah exactly yeah i think you read my mind so is that something we can we take it step by step and then do some sort of survey study that are polarized we are compared to the other part of the country uh you know looking at or reading the newspaper reading some other reports you know being in the same market i think we are have excessive retirement homes and like you said earlier in the star chair the house prices of the retirement homes of those properties are far less far far less and some in some cases i had a case somewhere the property was sold for 200 000 in 2019 and recently it has been sold for 125 000 so it is a joke but yeah yeah exactly so coming back is there something we can do some study uh quick study to find what can be done and then we might be able to build the case perry do you have any insight to share with us um we'll just have a quick discussion about whether it might be helpful for us just do you know a relatively brief note that just covers off some of the points that you've said and just try to set out i think just a very you know straightforward way what some of the key concerns that have been raised this evening just how they are especially based if you like or actually there's there's more room for maneuver um you could then use that to reflect on that whether that then is something that you decide you want to you know launch a bit of a tasking uh finish group around um we can certainly do that the i think the retirement one in particular that you know as you said i think defining that in that way would be quite helpful um certainly from our perspective i think the hmo issue um was considered by counselor makovich it is at a recent decision session where uh they've been i think it was in response to a petition that there's something been referred to his decision session um so i know there's been some recent work on that so members might want to just have a look at that if that's a matter of concern um but that's our suggestion i think really we could just do a short note a couple of signs or whatever and set out the position on it and then you can consider whether how much room for maneuver you might have which i think was the point made by council thomas and and echoed okay that would be helpful counselor tomlin's a new one to come in thank you chair all i was going to say really was i think that they're all interrelated so when we started this debate we talked about um people being one person living in a house that's too big for them and we need them to move and then we're talking about well we've got retirement places that are closed so it's kind of all interrelated isn't it and the same with the hmo argument and the affordable homes it's very difficult just to take a bite-sized chunk out of it and not consider all the others so i think it's quite difficult to narrow it down whether that means that it doesn't fit within a task and finish group i don't know yeah there's no doubt that housing market is a system and it's a system which is not working terribly well um to go back to where i came in if one bedroom apartments in the town centre are selling for less than a hundred thousand pounds um there's something that ain't working quite right check with your permission um this is more just in terms of the briefing paper i think there are a few things that could be useful um as a sort of um infographic or or dashboard i think because i mean i know the figures that i've seen in terms of the land prices you know sell hill and warrick are the most expensive it's back for i think last i looked it was about 4.7 million pounds per hectare in sully hall but having some of those for comparative areas so that we can benchmark ourselves against other areas the affordability ratio um and also looking at it not just because i think there's another element as well it's not just the the um median earnings because normally the affordability ratio you look at the median house prices and and the um median earnings it's also looking at lower quartile earnings because i think there is a there is a different inequality in early earnings that happens in sully hall sully hall has quite high average earnings but it also has a bit more of a steeper slope than some other areas um which is another factor that probably feeds into that so maybe there are some of the factors on that dashboard that can be provided and then if there are some useful figures of statistics around the retirement market it could give the scrutiny board to revisit it after looking at a report on it you know what's the right entry point for that subject does the task and finish does that sound pragmatic yeah okay so what i where i think we are is that collectively we agree that there is something that is not working as well as it might that uh we don't know whether we can do anything about it um and we don't know whether it's too complex to bite off but we would like to be better informed as to some of the underlying pictures so that we can be clearer about whether it's worth exploring further is that a reasonable summary of where we got to as a group okay thank you very much okay so the borough you look as if you might want to say something there have been a number of planning applications since i've been involved in parish council and in the green belt where developers come along and say i need to build these retirement homes in greenbelt so there is something we can actually do because we can probably as a council come up with a policy that says you've got to prove there's a need yeah but that's probably because we don't actually have a fact-based policy so there might be something that we can do if there is some actual facts behind the fact behind the statements that you are making which is there is lots of this accommodation knocking around and it's incredibly cheap and therefore indicates there's a surplus so there might be some things that we might actually be able to recommend but we haven't got the facts at the moment in fact that statement up that's my starting point and i i did believe that if we could be strong enough about a needs-based statement that that could be injected into the planning system but you know maybe we need to take advice on that i think that's the point in which to draw this discussion to a close um we've reached conclusions about the current map for the forward um plan of meetings yes came to the borough um if i was reading the cabinet member for housing correctly he was saying please set up a task and finish group to look at this issue of prefabricated housing and the utilization of land um that might be free from spare garages they did appear to that appear to be what he was saying um and well i was i was sorry i was presuming that if we do do it in terms of what what we had been talking about that that would naturally come into it in terms of getting um lower cost homes in at the bottom end of the picture that it would it would naturally fit into and look at housing in general but it's a highly specific piece of that which we might be able to get a net result of i mean i don't i don't know how many spare car parking spaces we've got but i did hear something like a third of the garages aren't used that was said at a council meeting i'm sure it was about a third right yeah okay so so there is a whole series of questions about where are they how big i produce me a map all that kind of stuff we can actually do something really specific is that is that big enough for a task and finish group in itself are we talking about seh garages yes yeah they know exactly how many there are where they are um what the rental income is and i think the difficulty there is you won't have not all occasionally you'll have a block that's not used but it's normally intermittent ones so you couldn't really do anything with the bit between um it it all depends but they have looked into it a lot i think in the past and there is quite a bit of an income from it it's quite surprising so they like to keep hold of it plus people like them yeah yeah so you're saying that a certain percentage of them are occupied as garages and are effectively rented by users is that that's what you're saying yeah some have also actually been sold because that was one of the problems with the dalesford road site there was one that had been sold and it took seh a very long time to get that out of private ownership but it was a real blocker to the plans for one of the garage sites i do think if we ask seh they could probably send you the assessment for all the garage areas because i think that's already been done i'm trying to toss up in my mind whether it's big enough for a task and finish group or whether we should simply ask for a report on the subject do you have a view sat down perry i was just discussing with perry that i think we can do a report based on you know the previous work that's been carried out and then the board can take a view on where they want to go with that i think the other thing i should just say is um there's competing priorities in terms of finances and the challenges with you know existing bringing up stand the existing standards new decent home damp mold and then new build so it's there'll be a fine balance between prioritization but absolutely it can bring a report that's fine and is that a report that covers one the availability for reuse of garage sites and two the potential use of prefabricated buildings in the same way as other councils have done i think um without conferring i think what we we could do something which says um is you know is the site one of the sites available effectively suitable for residential development and if the answers of a traditional approach that is no then i think we could say are the there are other opportunities that are opened up by a non-standard approach and i think because i think you know from i can't remember if it's a scrutiny board but somebody has definitely looked at this before because i can remember visually seeing the a3s with each photograph of each site and we've gone through them so i don't think there's a large number that were identified as potentially being suitable as has been said by members this evening so i think that'll be quite an efficient way of us getting quite quickly to that point about what is the feasibility of an alternative sort of modular approach in in a in a small number of circumstances where they might be suitable for development anyway um so i'd suggest we do that so a report as you say this is what the situation is and then look specifically at how many opportunities there are and if they might work from a modular non-standard construction approach okay thank you very much and i think that brings us to a point where we can close the meeting for tonight [LAUGH]