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Good evening ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the first Assets Projects and Strategy Committee meeting. Could I ask everyone to note the fire safety instruction that on hearing the alarm you should leave the chamber by the double doors at the back, exit the building through the main entrance and congregate in the car park. Also please switch off your mobile phone and turn any other electronic devices being used to silent. I would like to remind everyone present that this meeting is subject to an internet webcast recording where the proceedings are capable of repeated viewing. If you are seated in the public area of the council chamber, it is likely that your image will be captured by the recording camera as a result and you may become part of the broadcast. This may infringe on human rights. If you wish to avoid this, you should leave the public seating area in the main body of the council chamber and move to the upper gallery. I'm seeing that will affect many. Members that if for any reason you are not present for the hold of the debate on any item, you may not be allowed to vote on that item. I would like to remind members that in line with pre-election period guidelines, agenda items have been carefully considered. Any matters that cannot be discussed at this time can be taken offline or may be brought forward to a future appropriate committee. Thank you. Item one is apologies for absence. Mrs. Folks, are there any apologies?

• Thank you, chair. No apologies this evening.
• Thank you. Item two is minutes of the previous fair committee on the 6th of March, 2024. There is one addition to them in that myself, I was in attendance at that meeting and Councillor Dr. Barrett was also present. And if we could have that added. And in that case, on that, after that amendment, is it agreed that I sign as a correct record the minutes of the fair committee meeting held on 6th of March, 2024, which begin on page five of the agenda. Thank you. Item three, asset management strategy and framework. The report begins on page 11 of the agenda. Mrs. Barnes, did anything, Ms. Barnes, anything to add?
• Thank you, chair. This report looks to refresh the current asset management strategy that the council holds. And what we are asking is for members to agree the kind of seven overarching principles for officers to go away and work up on to present a final draft committee at the, final draft report at the last committee of this municipal year, which is around February time. Happy to take any questions.
• Thank you, I will move the recommendation set out on page 11. Do I have a seconder?
• Yeah, I'll second that, reserve my right to speak.
• Thank you, does anyone wish to speak on this item? Councillor Poppy.
• Thank you, chair. I was only gonna ask, I think it's absolutely fine and everything is super duper. My question's gonna be, do we have the staff to carry this out, basically?
• I'll move Ms. Barnes, if you could.
• Thank you. Yes, just to let the committee know, the recruitment of the corporate manager for assets and regeneration. He's three weeks into the post now. He couldn't be here tonight, unfortunately, but it will be his role to take this forward and develop this strategy up.
• Thank you, are there any further questions in that case? Oh, sorry, Councillor Barber.
• Thank you, chair, sorry. Apologies. In terms of the assets included in this, this also includes all of our halls around the borough?
• Yep, so just to answer that point, the purpose of this asset management strategy is for all the council's estates, so it will make reference as well to our housing portfolio, as well as our corporate estate, which includes our community halls. It will look at kind of land ownership, as well as property.
• So on that basis, if I just come back, in terms of the heritage assets that we have, how is that being factored into the overarching principles? So for example, we've got Hove and Poplar's Hall, which is grade two listed building. Does that specifically form one of your criteria for the overarching approach to our assets? 'Cause I would expect that preservation of heritage assets would be a key driving factor.
• Response, Professor.
• Yeah, we would classify assets by Hove and Poplar's Hall as a heritage asset, and we would pick up on the classifications around the grades listing as well. It probably is not specific in our overarching principles, but it's held on our estate and asset data, which we will be reviewing.
• Chancellor Barber.
• Thank you, Chair. So could I ask that it be any heritage assets, which we have across the borough, that that factor is specifically included in those overarching principles? Because I do think that you lose your heritage very easily if you don't protect it, and explicitly define that it's important to you in deliberations on the management of your assets, and I think it should be in there.
• Thank you, Chancellor Barber. I won't respond. I think it's worth noting on page 13, at the beginning of point six, collaborate with partners across all sectors to identify wider opportunities to benefit the community. And to your point, I believe protecting and restoring our heritage is very key to benefiting our community. So in my mind, it would come under that area, but I would ask that, whilst I don't think we need to amend the references as such, when the final report comes back, that is outlined in more detail and more specific note, given its importance for the community more widely. And is that your final question, Councilor Barber? Thank you. I don't have anyone else to speak, so that in case, Councilor Cloke, you've reserved your right. Would you like to add anything?
• No, nothing to add now, thanks.
• Thank you. Just to sum up, finally, thank you, members, for your questions and your cooperation on this item. I think it's very important in general that we actually get this kind of approach and profile on paper, and Councilors get the chance to approve and see how we plan to manage our assets strategically, holistically, and across all areas of the Council. And I hope you can support this proposal. In that case, we will now vote on the recommendations on page 11 of the agenda. All those in favor?
• That's unanimous, yeah.
• That's unanimous, thank you. The motion is carried. (clicking)
• Item four begins a community infrastructure project plan. The report begins on page 17 of the agenda. Ms. Barnes, anything to add?
• Nothing further to add. The information's in the report, but happy to take any questions, Chair.
• Thank you. I will move the recommendations set out on page 17. Do I have a seconder?
• Yeah, I'll second that. Reserve my right to speak, thank you.
• Thank you, Councillor Cloke. Are there any questions or comments from members? Councillor Laplaine.
• Thank you, Chair. Just actually to, I see that there's a strategy in terms of addressing Town Centre, High Street areas first, and then kind of expanding out. But during that period of when those areas are being assessed, if any of the assets elsewhere are required to be replaced or maintained in any given way, I presume that that would be updated on this whatever schedule so that they're not revisited or in the future.
• Ms. Barnes.
• Yeah, I agree. Yeah, if we're replacing bins, et cetera, benches, we will capture that, even though it's not potentially focusing on the High Streets, we'll look to include what we kind of own first, and then we'll focus on the High Streets and go further. But at the same time, we'll have that information. So when we move further, yeah.
• Thank you. I don't believe I have any other Councillors to speak. Councillor Cloke, you've reserved your right. Would you like to add anything?
• No, nothing to add, thank you.
• Thank you, this is going at quite a pace, which I'm quite enjoying, so thank you, Councillors. I think, just to conclude on this item, I'm very pleased this is brought forward. I think it's actually quite important that we actually know what community infrastructure actually exists in the borough, what we own, what others own, what state it is in, where it is, when it was last replaced, what we need to do with it, and it's somewhat unfortunate we do not have that registered to date. And this is obviously stage one in the process of looking to make sure that our borough always looks its best, and our community infrastructure is always at a standard that our residents expect. But stage one has to be actually knowing what we have, where it is, and what state it is in. It's a very positive measure going forward. So, we will now vote on the recommendations on page 17 of the agenda. All those in, oh, Councillor Lewis has brought, all those in favour.
• That's unanimous.
• That is unanimous again, thank you. Motion is carried, members. Item five is asset disposal and lease policies. The report begins on page 21 of the agenda. Ms Barnes, is there anything you would like to add?
• Thank you, Chair. This report outlines the policy principles around disposal and leasing of our assets. The purpose of bringing policy to the September committee, if members agree with the principles tonight, is to make sure we are centralizing, disposing of our assets, and leasing our assets through the asset management team. We will look, we will clarify how ward members and lead members are consulted with through that process, as well, so the purpose of this evening is to begin to kind of get the policy in black and white, and this policy will underpin the asset management strategy and framework that has been previously agreed.
• Thank you, I will move the recommendations set out on page 21. Do I have a seconder?
• Yes, I'll second that, reserve my right to speak.
• Thank you, do any Councillors have any questions or comments they would like to make? No, fantastic. Move that, Councillor Tony, reserve your right to speak.
• Oh, apologies, Councillor Lewis.
• So yes, do we have a financial benchmark, or will that be included in this policy as to rationale for disposal?
• Thank you, Chair. So, under the disposal policy framework, we would either look to market an asset, so therefore we'd have a market valuation, or we'd seek to gain market valuations, therefore when disposing of an asset, we would have financial information presented to members so they're aware of the financial value.
• Councillor Lewis.
• Thank you, my question. My question is, do we have a financial benchmark, for example, net present value, or which has got to be positive or negative before we decide to sell it, or something similar? Please, thank you.
• Good evening. So, the best way to get a financial benchmark is to market the property, so that's generally our ICS, Royal Institute of Chartered Spares, guidance as to how you determine the best open market value for a property. So, in most circumstances, we would market properties. Where we would be unable to market them, we would get an independent valuer. So, we wouldn't have a predetermined benchmark value unless we got a qualified valuer to tell us what that value was on a case-by-case basis. Does that kind of answer your question?
• You have options. You can hold, you can sell, or you can buy. So, you do that with respect to a financial objective being positive, negative, and so on. So, obviously, value is part of it. Obviously, there's cash flow streams and so on. So, hence my question about how do we determine, once we've got a value, what do we want to do with it by hold or sell?
• Yes, I understand what you're asking now. So, this policy really fits within the wider asset management strategy that we've just mentioned in the earlier item. So, what we would generally do, I mean, if it's a piece of garden land, for example, you'd market it. It probably wouldn't have too much impact on your wider asset management strategy. For those larger disposals, we'd like to make sure that they're part of a capital receipts program. So, they would fit within the wider asset management strategy and, generally speaking, for those larger assets, you'd probably do a business case which would pick up all of the elements, including a long-term cash flow, for example. So, you'd put together an options appraisal of which disposal might be one of them. That's slightly different to what we're saying here. This kind of assumes at the point you've decided you're going to dispose. These are the principles you'd follow. So, there's a piece of work that goes before that which would sit within the asset management strategy.
• Catherine Lewis.
• Very helpful, thank you.
• Catherine Barber.
• Thank you, Chair. Can I just ask, as a general principle, with disposals, a lot of disposals won't need any consultation process and they'd be quite obvious what to do with the asset. But for the ones which are more community-based, ones which have more impact on neighbours, when we have proposals for, for example, long-term leases to change the purpose of a public pool into another function, those are often discussed in pink. So, none of our residents get to hear any of the detail in advance of a decision being made at the committee. How do we ensure that on the most sensitive disposals that we give residents the chance to provide their feedback on the disposal before a decision is actually made, please?
• Would the officers like to answer that? Thank you.
• So, obviously, within the report on page 22, all our disposal will conform with Section 123 of the Local Government Act. So, that is making sure we are receiving best consideration. With regards to kind of the community, that's what we want to kind of define when ward members are consulted with, so that the community can, through their ward member, consult with us as well. And we'd have to take that decision on a case-by-case basis with the politicians as well. These are the policy principles. We're making sure we are compliant with the Local Government Act, and making sure that we are as transparent as we can be, but also getting best consideration for the council. So, we would strongly advise that we want to work with ward members, so ward members can work with us, and bring that kind of community voice into the offices, for the offices to consider, alongside with committee members and with lead members.
• Thank you, Councillor Barber.
• So, if I may just come back, and whilst I think the ward members are a very useful source of information back into the council, there will be some assets that require discussion directly with our residents to hear their views and concerns, to make sure that we're not going down a path which they're unhappy with. At the end of the day, they employ us, not the other way around, and I really do see that there's a, within this policy document, there's not enough reference to the possibility, in some circumstances, of public consultation on the disposal of an asset, and I would expect to see it in there to protect the interests of our residents, because most of us can be here for just a fixed number of years, and these assets have been there for some of them for 50, 60 years, used by local residents, and I think we should be engaging with them on the significant disposals. Thank you.
• Councillor Barber, I think it's worth noting, again, page 22, number 3.3, where at the point land must first be declared surplus requirements processed to be outlined in disposals policy. To your point there, within that policy, it should be, when we declare land surplus requirements, triggers that require community consultation or similar at that stage, because I think that's the point where we would need to engage community before potentially we've even actually looked at valuations and appropriate method of disposing. Actually, when something is declared surplus, the community are aware this could come to the market at that stage, and so they can react or respond as appropriate in terms of wall member engagement as well. I think that could be a successful model in appropriate circumstances if you've got this as well.
• Not wanting to cross that, of course. It's fairly standard practice to declare land surplus as you've indicated, Chair. Sometimes that would come back to a committee to declare it surplus. That could be the trigger point upon which we could obviously publicly announce that that land is declared surplus. That's not saying the land at that point will get advertised there or marketed for disposal. So there is a window there. I'd be a little cautious about enshrining every single one of those that get declared surplus as being subject to community consultation. I think it could be on a case-by-case basis, but I think I've just urged a little bit of caution in terms of every single case.
• I think that you're absolutely right, and apologies if I inferred that. I think the indication of Councillor Barbara others will be in the process in that state where you'll be engaging both ward members and chair and vice chairs of appropriate committees. At that stage, the councillors could have a role in engaging, saying, actually, this is bigger, and actually has some significance to be consulted if that's in there. So effectively, the councillor consultation is a route to decide the appropriate, whether the next steps could be appropriate. I think that would be a useful trigger point, and it gives responsibility to ward councillors to represent their ward as appropriate or not, as the case may be. Councillor Rigby, you had a question.
• Thank you, Chair. Just to clarify that the requirement to the aides with ward members would apply to all the ward members, irrespective of whichever political grouping they were in, so that it would be between however many members there were. And then secondly, there are some assets which straddle ward boundaries or are very close to them. And that's particularly true of Hutton. And I would want to feel that those assets which are covered by this would also call in ward members from the adjoining ward, where they were geographically proximate to it.
• I think that point is noted and has been applied in other areas before. I know, previously, only having half the High Street, anything on the High Street used to trigger a Brentwood South warning. And so I believe that process could be followed going forward as appropriate to each asset, et cetera. So we can make sure that there's some flexibility within this process as well. But whilst acknowledging the process, we shouldn't necessarily open it up to be everyone in every circumstance. It's got to be a case-by-case element to that. Anything else officers would like to add?
• Sorry, Councillor Barber.
• May I come back then? In section 5.0, where it says no engagement or consultation is required, does that need tweaking slightly?
• I think that's on this policy, rather than necessarily the policy, this report rather than actually the outcome of the policy. Yes, exactly. There are no more questions. Councillor Cote, you reserved your right to speak.
• Thank you, nothing to add from my side, thanks.
• Thank you, and officers would like to say I have nothing to add either. So we will now vote on the recommendations on page 21 of the agenda. All those in favour? The motion is carried. Thank you, members. Item six is the corporate vision refresh 2025/2030, the timeframe proposal. Report begins on page 27 of the agenda. Mr. Campbell, do you have anything to add?
• Thank you, Chair. Good evening, members. Nothing further to add. Corporate vision refresh 2025/2030, as it says in the title, timeframe for proposal. This looks at the new vision that we're going to be putting together. This provides the timeline that we're putting forward. As you will see in the timeline, it's quite tight in terms of the consultation. So there is a bit of fluidity in there because we do need to consider that when we go out to consultation in July, if we don't hit that mark, it's going through August, so we may extend that slightly. But we hope to get that back and hope to get back to the committee, as we say within the report. We're also taking note that we had a peer review earlier this year. And although we haven't had the final outcome of that letter published yet, it did indicate that we should try and get the refresh in as quickly as possible. So we will, if we can, expediate this timeline and try and bring it back for earlier, if we can. That's it, Jim, thank you.
• Thank you, Mr. Campbell. I will move the recommendation set out on page 27. Do I have a seconder?
• Yes, I'll second that, reserve my right to speak. Thank you.
• Thank you, Councillor Cloak. Would anyone have any questions or comments at all? No, fantastic. Councillor Cloak, you reserve your right to speak?
• I'm gonna stop doing that, no. I have nothing else to add to that.
• Thank you, I will not. I don't think, thank you, Mr. Campbell. We will now vote on the recommendations on page 27 of the agenda. All those in favor? The motion is carried. Thank you, members. You've now ruined it, Councillor Aspinall, thank you. (audience laughing) Item seven is the review and development of policies and strategies. The report begins on page 33 of the agenda. Mr. Campbell or Mrs. Nicholson, do you have anything to add?
• Thank you, Chair. Evening again, members. Nothing further to add from myself. I'm just going to introduce Samantha Nicholson, the new corporate manager, and Samantha's going to just give you a highlight of the report for us.
• Thank you, thank you. Yeah, just a very short overview of the report. The report sets out the planned approach to the review and development of policies and strategies in 2024-25. You'll see in the report that we set out an approach as to how we're going to undertake this. At present, we have 64 policies and 25 strategies. We propose to undertake a further audit, and we set out there in the bullet points what that audit will cover. Transformation plans will feed into this process, and they'll help us to identify further policies and strategies that need to be considered. They will also help us to prioritize which policies and strategies come forward and what we've all done. And then finally, we have the policy and strategy register, which will be the output to this process, and that will help us to keep the policies and strategies up to date. Happy to take any questions you might have.
• Thank you. I will move the recommendation set out on page 33. Do I have a seconder?
• Yes, I'll second that, and I'll reserve my right to speak, thank you.
• Thank you, Councillor Cloak. Councillor Poppy.
• Thank you, Chair. This obviously looks like an incredibly long job that's gonna have to go on here with all these different policies, some of which I've never heard of, but the problem I've had as a Councillor for the last four or five days has been resources. I've had problems with a depot where even the manager down on the depot has been out on the bins today because there's not enough resources there. I've had an argument with Planning, and the Planning Department tell me there's not enough resources to do this. You've got this report, and the first thing it says, or the first thing it says on the last bit where you've got other options considered, relevant risks, not enough resources to undertake policy and/or strategy review. So what are we actually looking at here? Are we looking at there's gonna be a review, or you haven't got the resources to do the review? It's just the same thing over and over again. Great, I'll vote for it. I just wonder if it'll actually get done.
• Mr. Campbell.
• Oh, sorry. Thank you, Councillor Poppy. That is just identifying a risk. At the moment, that isn't a risk. We're just identifying that the only thing that can stop the work happening is actually if that came forward, and actually we had a problem with resources. At the moment, we do not. We've scheduled this in under Officer Nicholson. She's working with her team to make sure that we schedule this in. They're part of the transformation plans that we're bringing forward, and we're scheduling the work, so you're quite right, there's a lot. But there's a lot I think we can trim back on, join together, create better policies and strategies, so therefore reduce the work moving forward. But like you point out, we're not gonna do this all at once, and it's going to take time, and form part of longer plans and service plans. (muffled speaking) (laughing)
• And very good you look for 69, Councillor Poppy. I think you do make a valid point. I think very important within this is the prioritization element, in that we don't have, this is, the process should be what we have to do, what we can do, and it's capacity-based, and Councillors, as much as we may want a wish list of every strategy we want tomorrow, we will have to be very strict and firm about the process that's set out, and the agreement from this committee about what the focus will be for enhancing previous strategies, and in turn, there is an opportunity to do something, which I'm sure your side of the room will like, in terms of cutting red tape in the number of policies that we have, where actually one policy would be more suitable than about 17 we have for very similar items. Officers are nodding quite rapidly, which indicates 17 might be a low number. And were there any, oh, Councillor Laplaine first.
• Thank you, Chair. Presumably within the review and decision process, the dates will be set before the expiry of these particular policies, so that there's enough slack to go through that decision-making activity. Mr. Campbell.
• Yeah, I'm probably stealing Officer Nicholson's response here, because you wrote the report and knows it inside out, but yes, in the review process, dates ahead of it, running out, therefore, in the future, once we've done it, we'll actually be ahead of the game, be reviewing it, et cetera, et cetera, and it really pulled you.
• Thank you. Very well understood. Councillor Rigby first.
• Thank you, Chair. Two questions. One, is it anticipated that by reviewing all these strategies and policies, it will lead to better risk management and the assessment of potential liabilities that may occur if those policies aren't complied with by the Council? And second, more of an observation, which is that this builds on work that was done by the former Audit and Scrutiny Committee, in particular, an initiative that was led by former Councillor White on identifying all the statutory responsibilities that the Council holds, which was very much his magnum opus with which he left us, and I think it's a sensible offshoot of that. I share and understand Councillor Poppy's concerns, but I do think that the officers will duly prioritise them, and in a way, it's an idea that Gary White's legacy lives on.
• I won't comment on Councillor White's legacy. Councillor Lewis.
• Yes, thank you. So first of all, I'd actually like to say thank you to Greg and Ms. Nicholson for this piece of work. If I had this many pennies down the back of my sofa, I'd be quite a wealthy man. So some of these come back a long way, a decade or more, so to have made this list is quite an impressive piece of work. So thank you, obviously, it's just the very beginning, and there's a way to go, and we've just discussed that, but actually well done for picking all this up, thank you.
• Thank you, I have no other. Councillor Mayo.
• Thank you, Chair, thanks for letting me speak. Is there an equivalent exercise going on at Rochford? And is there any dependency on that being aligned with us in order to meet the timelines that are stated in here?
• Mr. Campbell.
• So yes, a similar report is going to be going to a committee at Rochford in early, oh no, it's next week. Sorry, I get my timelines wrong. Next week, they're not codependent, but we are aligning them so that actually we can review, if the policies are very similar, we can do the work at the same time. However, if there are policies that we identify that are needed quicker to review for our side, we will do that and make sure that they are.
• Thank you, I have no further questions. Councillor Clarke, you reserve your right to speak?
• Thank you, no, I have nothing to add other than this is very needed, as far as I can tell. We can't continue to function with 69 policies and strategies that will overlap. So I hope it's a bit of short-term pain for long-term gain.
• Thank you, I will add nothing further. So we will now vote on the recommendations on page 33 of the agenda. All those in favour? That motion is carried. Item eight is urgent business. There are no items of urgent business this evening. I would therefore like to close the meeting at 7.32 and Councillor Aspinall didn't curse it that much. He still cost us seven minutes, so I blame him personally for that. Thank you, members, for a very orderly meeting tonight and I hope you have a great evening. (gentle music) (gentle music) (gentle music) (gentle music) [BLANK_AUDIO]