Transcript

Welcome and good afternoon everybody to Dorset Council's licensing subcommittee. Thank you for coming. My name is Derek Beer, I'm chairman of the licensing committee and I'll now ask the members to elect a chairman for this meeting please. I nominate you Derek. >> Thank you. >> I second that. >> Thank you very much indeed. I'll now ask people here to do some introductions. On my right we have. I'm Louise Bowne, I'm a member of the licensing committee and member for Radipole in Weymouth. My name is David Shortell, I'm a representative for West Borson, the trade layer across and of course I'm a member of the planning subcommittee, the licensing subcommittee. I think it's important in the room like this that we all know who's speaking or at least get some ideas. We've got a room full of strangers and so the idea now is we all introduce each other, you know who we're speaking about and we go around the room and we can all introduce each other. I'll now go to the committee clerk please. John Miles, Democratic Services, I'll be taking the minutes for the meeting. >> Thank you. Hi, I'm Elaine from Democratic Services. >> Legal representative. I'm Laura from Legal Services. >> Thank you. And responsible authorities. I'm Kirsty Gatehouse, Licensing Officer for Dorset Police covering Weymouth and Portland. Thank you. We will all trip over with a microphone this afternoon. It goes outside and they catch us out, all right? So take a deep breath and we'll start again. Right, now for the applicant, please. So sorry. Thank you. Do we have any apologies for absence? An apology for absence was received from Councillor Kate Weller substituted by Councillor Louise Bone. Thank you. And any declarations of interest, members? No? >> No. Okay. Thank you. Do we have any urgent items? There are no urgent items. Thank you. Thank you. And we're looking at a new premises licence application with Blue Valley Events, Sutton Point and Weymouth. Sorry, is there any exempt business? There are no exempt business, thank you. Thank you. Just ask now to introduce yourselves, if you would. Steve Bowne, I'm the Director of Blue Valley Events. On my left is my partner, Karen Smith. She runs or helps run the business at the Springhead Pub. And on her left is Joanne Parker, who is her sister, my sister-in-law and the official landlady of the Springhead Pub. Thank you. Would you like to introduce yourselves at the back at this time? Yes, my name is Vicki Fernihoe. I'm a resident in Sutton Point. I'm John Crisp. I'm here to read out my neighbour's input. Hello, I'm Paul Cherry. I live in Sutton Point. Hello, I'm Sue Ketter and I live in Sutton Point. I'm Catherine Miller, Senior Licensing Officer and report author. Laura Garth, Licensing Officer. What we'll do in a moment, we'll ask the applicants to, sorry, the licensing officer to introduce the report. If any of you don't understand or have any questions about that, raise your hand and you can ask a question and we'll operate like that throughout the meeting. If you have any questions at all, address them through me. When the applicant makes their, presents their report, you may have questions, but don't make the questions your representation. You can keep that for later. It's just about if you should understand anything that's said, so if there's anything in the report that you don't understand, raise your hand and we'll go back over it. When we've finished hearing everything and we've listened to everybody and we've weighed everything up, we've asked all the questions and everybody's happy that they've had a fair hearing and everything's right and proper, we will retire and make our decision and we'll tell you about that a bit later on. The meeting is, it's a public meeting and it's streamed on YouTube and please try not to trip up, maybe in a hypocrite, don't trip up with the microphones, they will try and catch us up. Please speak into the microphone because it's very important. Thank you. Right, I'll now ask you if you would please to introduce the report. Thank you, Chairman. This is a hearing to consider an application for Blue Welly events for a new premises license at the field adjoining the side of the rear car park of the Spring Head Public House, Sutton Road, Sutton Point. This application is for a new and separate application to the premises license at the Spring Head Public House and therefore must be considered on its own merits. The Licensing Act sets out at section 4 that the authority must carry out its licensing functions with a view to promoting the licensing objectives and these are the prevention of crime and disorder, public nuisance, protection of children from harm and public safety. The application for today is for live and recorded music indoors and outdoors Monday to Sunday 11 to 2300 hours. Anything of a similar description to that falling with E, F or G indoors and outdoors Monday to Sunday 10 to 2300 hours. Late night refreshment, although this is on the application, it is only applicable from 2300 hours to 0500 hours so therefore it will not be included on the application form if it's to be granted. Supply of alcohol on the premises Monday to Sunday 10 to 2300 hours. It is normal for any application where a license is required to cover ad hoc events to include all the days of the week. It would not mean that events would happen every day. It is also understandable that when people see such applications they are concerned about the possibilities this can open up. The subcommittee need to take such steps that they think are appropriate in these circumstances which could include attaching conditions to any license if granted limiting its use. That said there is always an option available to anyone to call any license in for a review if the licensing objectives are not being promoted. Dorset police requested 15 conditions to be added to the license if it were to be granted and the applicant has agreed to these and these conditions can be found at appendix 2. There were no other representations received from any of the responsible authorities so for instance environmental health, planning, trading standards, etc. There were 15 relevant representations received from members of the public related to the license objectives of prevention of crime and disorder and public nuisance. An email was sent by license and on behalf of the applicant to the interested parties which explained reasons for the application and their intention of the use of the field. The email also listed the conditions requested by Dorset police and this email can be found at appendix 3. Following this email four of the interested parties withdrew their representation. Four responded as to why their concerns were not alleviated and their comments can be found at appendix 4. The original representation of the 11 parties can be found at appendix 5 and there were six representations received in support of the application and these can be found at appendix 6. To be counted as relevant a representation must relate to one of the four license objectives. I have set out in the report the matters that do not relate to one of the four of these which do not. Some of the comments from interested parties contain some matters which are material considerations under planning but do not relate to the four license objectives. This would include any parts of the representations relating to the highway, parking matters or amenity or need for a similar premises in the area. There has been supplementary information that contained five additional comments from interested parties and this has been circulated to subcommittee members and published on the website. Section 7 of the report sets out the options that are available to the subcommittee after they have considered all the information contained in the report. The written representation is anything that is said at this hearing. Finally I would just like to draw your attention to part of the paragraph 9.44 from the guidance as quoted in paragraph 6.4 of the report. It is imperative that the authority ensures that the factors which form the basis of its determination are limited to consideration of the promotion of the objectives and nothing outside those parameters. The licensing authority is expected to come to its determination based on an assessment of evidence on both the risks and benefits either for or against making the determination. Thank you. Thank you Catherine very much indeed. Councillors, do you have any questions on that report? No. Thank you. Applicants, do you have any questions on the report at all? No, thank you. And a responsible party of police, have you any? No, not at this time, thank you. Those of you making representations, do you have any questions on the report as it's been placed? No? Okay, thank you very much indeed. Thank you. So, if I may, I'll ask the applicant to present their case please, thank you. Thank you. All done. I have to say, I thought that report summed it up quite well. We've run the Spring Head pub now for over a decade. Part of that business is functions, events, weddings. Those who watched BBC News last night would have seen in the last 12 months alone, pub closures have gone from 50 to 80 a month. Survival counts on things like these weddings and these events. We live in the village, we are part of the village, we don't take that lightly. With all the events and the weddings that we do, they are not continual, they are not throughout the year. We never go past times that we present to our neighbours. We still stay well within our current premises licence. And the reason for this move or this licence request is the fact that, actually my partner who it is that deals with actually a lot of the wedding requests. The trend this year seems to be people wanting more and more of a countryside wedding. And the field will allow us to do that. In terms of that, we are actually moving that noise factor and those functions further away from the pub and the heart of the village. Yes, I'm sure you'll still be able to hear some noise and things, but everything of course will remain conducted well within a licence. As we have done at the Spring Head for over a decade. We don't intend on increasing the amount of weddings that we are doing. Ultimately we are busy enough running a business. We are not looking at increasing events and things. Purely the need for the licence will be for us to have more of an ability and flexibility to move the bars. Currently with some of our events, we have activities within a field, the neighbouring field in question. But the bars have to remain on the grounds of the pub for the premises licence. It would offer us great flexibility to be able to move those, to do that and still maintain a decent wedding offering. Which is why we've got quite an open-ended Monday to Sunday, 10 to 11. We have no intentions of running them 7 days a week, 365 days a year. But we do require that flexibility. We get enquiries for weddings on Mondays, Tuesdays, Sundays. We just have to be open to be able to tackle those. If we reduce it too much, the stats don't lie, survival is everything. We did put our, as the licensing officer said, response back out to the news bite statement. Where we addressed all what we thought was most of the concerns. And I think we stand by it. We run a very, very good business. The business is an asset to the village. As I say, it's a village we live in. We have no intention of it going any different. So, I think that's it. Thank you. Thank you. Do any of your colleagues want to add to what you said? You're okay. Thank you. Councillors, do you have any questions for the applicant? Not at this stage. No. There have been some conditions put forth by the police. Does that work in with what you have in mind? Yes. So, part of the application process is we met the police licensing officer. We had a very positive meeting. We spoke very openly and candidly about what we do and what we're intending to do. We discussed potential restrictions, some of which were even volunteered voluntarily by myself. For example, the glassware situation. You know, glassware can be a danger. We're in an open field. We've been doing it over a decade. We're not silly. We know what we're doing. I felt that was a reasonable request to say, Well, let's put that in as well. And all these stipulations we're more than happy to agree to because we found them fair and reasonable. Okay. Thank you very much. Just to ask the last opportunity, do you have any questions at all? No. Thank you, Chairman. And the police. Any? No. No questions. Thank you. Those making representations, are you happy? You will have your chance to put your cases, of course. Do you have any questions on what you've heard so far, sir? Paul here. I'd like to ask a question. Would you mind telling us how many events you have held in the last 12 months, broken down into weddings, and what may be deemed as now the ticketed, so larger, events, please? Sorry. Thank you. So, the ticketed events, we only really hold the two events, which is our large family dog sausage and cider festival, and the Scarfest, which this year's festival was a couple of days ago. With regards to weddings, that does fluctuate and vary. I would believe in the last 12 months, possibly 8 to 12. I don't have the information at hand, but it would be in and around that region, 8 to 12. Are you happy with that answer? I'd like to ask a further question. Therefore, would your limits be, you have suggested no more events than current. Therefore, the assumption from that statement would be no more than, say, 10 weddings in a year. And no, sorry, let's leave it at that, no more than 10 weddings in a year. No, because as I said, it's flexible, and based on the last 12 months, it was 8 to 12. There's been a year where we've done as many as 15, 16. However, we are not looking to do that level again. We're quite happy around the level that we are currently doing, but I can't sit here and say we are going to only do 10. I don't think that would be fair or reasonable. Thank you. And just to get a picture for myself and my colleagues, should the licence be granted for the activities in the field? Do you feel that you'll be in a position, and I'm sure you say yes, but in a position to manage the conditions and control? Do you think the conditions are right and proper? Are they manageable for you? Do you feel that they're in control? I know you've said that already, but just to get my own picture, I'm thinking of the people walking to the field. You've got the bar there, so people have got to walk back to the pub. That's probably a bonus. But just the things about the plastic containers and so on, do you really feel confident in managing all of that? Yeah, fair question, and absolutely. I mean, even just going on by the function that's just occurred two, three days ago at our Scarfest. You know, it's 600 to 700 people. We have marshals on the roadside, making sure parking and cars are off and out of the way straightaway. We have full rubbish maintenance control, packing up our own cleanup and refuse collection. I say we've been doing it a long time, as you rightly say. So, absolutely, we're more than confident we can adhere to everything, yes, absolutely. And the other little one that's come up, there has been – we can't do with parking, we can't do with highways matters, that's quite clear. Do you have any – are you confident that, should the emergency services need to come to you, that's all manageable and achievable? Obviously, the last thing you would want is an ambulance or a fire vehicle caught in a road. Do you believe that what you put in place will accommodate that? Yeah, I mean, we've had absolutely no incidents at the moment, touch wood, and may that continue. But we speak to – we've spoken to highways, but we get the cones from somewhere else. Yeah, we get them from Weldmar. Oh, yeah, we hire some cones off our charity, Weldmar, and they allow us to cone up the entire Sutton Road to obviously encourage freedom of traffic flow. Again, we actually use our own field, one of our neighbours' fields, and a second villager's field to accommodate probably somewhere between 300 and 500 cars at our biggest event. None of our other events go anywhere near that. For example, the second largest event was the Scarfest from this weekend, and we accommodated every single piece of parking within the field that we are actually asking for a license on. There was absolutely no restrictions, no traffic issues at all. So, do I feel we could, you know, cover the bases that an ambulance could reach us? Yes, I would say. Thank you. Members, have you got any more questions? Yeah, please. I've got a question about noise management. So, the conditions say that a noise management plan has been devised and is in operation at the premises. I just wondered in real life, what does that look like? Okay, so any of the larger events where we actually have stages built, for example, the Scarfest and the dog show, that's the only two that have stages. We only ever employ professional sound engineers, they supply the equipment, they are the professionals in their game. So, I would say they are a best place to judge the space and the amount of people they're dealing with to control levels. But there's also numerous devices, apps around that you can measure decibels and things like that. For example, in the Scarfest, we did a multiple walk around several times throughout the day, which I have reports of just recording levels of decibels and things like that. Should it ever go over, we can turn it down. And we have done it at previous weddings back in the years gone by. We had an elderly neighbor who's no longer with us, sadly. And we had a couple of weddings where the bands happened to be outside, which we don't actually tend to do so much now on the grounds. We put them in the function room and the band was fairly near her garden. It was causing her disturbance. She made one phone call, we turned it down. We're not here to make enemies. Bearing in mind, of course, there's going to be very little changes to exactly what your services are at the moment. I was just wondering, what advantages is there to you to have this separate licensing permit? Okay, so I briefly touched on it earlier on, the flexibility mainly from A, the layout of our larger festival, B, being able to offer these weddings in the field. It wouldn't be feasible with the size and the distance of the field. I don't know if you're familiar with it or not. I see it doesn't appear on the plan. For example, if we move the wedding right down the far end of the field, it would not be even remotely reasonable to ask those people to then continue to use the bar on the grounds of the pub. You'd be talking a several-minute walk either direction. So the reason for the license is to give us the flexibility to be able to present bar facilities at these weddings within the field, but enabling us to move it further away. Again, as I say, reducing the disruption. Thank you. Should the license be granted and subject to conditions where you have the activities, one of the things which is probably close to my heart and many people is a condition put by the police is that you have a phone handy and the numbers available to local people get in touch. If someone were to ring and say noise too loud or this is going on, in a position you feel to manage that adequately? Yeah, fair question. And absolutely because I feel we do that at the moment. On the current basis, they can obviously contact the pub where there's numerous members of staff, but I would also reiterate that we are villagers. The company has a mobile phone. If this is something that needed to be put on as a condition that we have to have signage around with a contact number, we can do that. There's no issue with that at all. I guess what we would say is, I guess at some events you're always going to get phone calls to say turn it down, but I guess provided we're within the realms of the license, we'll be fair and reasonable by all means. Thank you very much indeed. Thank you. Any more questions from anybody at all what we've heard? No? In that case, we go to responsible authorities from the police. Would you like to add something you'd like to add at this point to add to your report? We've seen your report, we've got it, but obviously you'd like to elaborate on it, I don't doubt. Okay. Yeah, so ordinarily when it comes to premises license applications, I wouldn't normally attend a hearing if we hadn't objected to it, and obviously from what we can see, I didn't object. We agreed the conditions with the applicant, and so the main reason for me coming along today was just to clarify sort of my involvement with the process because there had been some objections from local residents. So when I initially met with Steve, like he says, we had quite a lengthy discussion around sort of what he was planning because from our perspective as well, fields in places with premises licenses can be a concern. And we don't want all sorts of places popping up all across the county where random events could start occurring that would contribute to crime and disorder, public nuisance, things like that. So the initial times that had been suggested up until 11 p.m., we normally class as quite reasonable, and Monday to Sunday, as has already been discussed, is just for that flexibility with weddings because traditionally people don't get married on a Saturday anymore. It's a bit of a pain when my friends are getting married midweek, but it's one of those things that we do. And if it's going to keep businesses afloat, then we need to make sure that that's what's going on, not that financial concerns are anything to do with us. However, it is something that is sort of in the back of our minds when we do it. And the conditions that I proposed were based on several other premises licenses in the county that exist already, where there's similar setups, where it's just there for something to be used on an occasional basis. So we just wanted to make sure that it wasn't going to be overutilized. So that was why I proposed the four ticketed events a year. I know that we've talked about two that exist already and that are going to be taking place on the field should this be granted. But the extra two ticketed events that are included within that condition are because we need to allow people flexibility, and by putting that one of them has to be on the August bank holiday weekend when I believe the Sausage Insider Festival usually occurs. That's already designating one of the weekends for people very far in advance to be able to plan around. So the notification to neighboring residents was also put in so that, as has just been discussed, local residents know who they can contact if there are any issues, and hopefully that alleviates that concern. We also put the restriction of the 1st of March to the 30th of September because, again, for outdoor weddings and events and things, the good British weather normally stops us from doing anything. It tries to stop us this time of year with the weather we've had recently, but normally September to March isn't a popular time for anything like that. But March to September are the main times, so that's why we did that one. And in terms of notifying us when events are happening with the larger capacities, that's quite a standard thing that we'd request from people that are putting on larger events. So hopefully that clarifies a little bit why I've put forward some of the conditions that I have, and I'm happy to take any questions from anyone that you might have. Thank you very much. Was your question for the police or something? If it was the police, I'll come to you in just a moment, is that all right? Yeah, thank you. So first of all, members, do you have any questions for the police? No. Thank you. And licensing team leader? No, thank you, Chair. And the applicant, do you have any questions on the police report? No, thank you. Thank you very much. And anyone else with you? No, okay, thank you. So we'll now come to those who made representations. Do you have any questions on the police report, please? My question on the police report was that you suggested that the license was allowed to operate from Monday to Sunday to allow an increase in weddings. My concern is that they can increase events up to a number of 300 people. Is there a restriction on how many of those can occur? Or are they, how many events, because outside of weddings, because the police statement suggested it was purely about weddings, but the license would allow events of whatever nature. Yes, so thank you for that question. And so I understand what you're saying and the way that it's worded is that any events, both weddings and ticketed events, shall only be held between the 1st of March and 30th September. So my interpretation of that is that the events will be weddings or ticketed events. There won't be events outside of that, and that was why I worded it quite like that. I hope that answers your question. Okay, were you happy with that answer? You won't be able to make representation in the moment. Anyone else, any questions? Sir, in the back row. Hello, I'm not sure I'm necessarily clear on what the lady from the police has said. My understanding is, and please correct me if I'm wrong, there is an allowance to have events, which are the non-ticketed events, if you like, the smaller events, which encompasses weddings. But this also allows, should the pub want to do so, the facility to have a number of events in addition to the weddings. They're not specified, but my understanding, and I may be wrong, is that they could have weddings and other events. So potentially, if there is, say, a maximum of 15 weddings a year, if the pub chose because they wanted to do so and they had other events, they would be allowed to do so. I'm not talking about the ticketed events here. Can we just clarify, we're talking about the field, not the pub, because the pub is a separate license, not into consideration today, it's just purely the field. Okay, yeah, we are just dealing with what will happen in the field, not what happens in the pub currently. This is a very separate application for the field itself. Okay, thank you. Any more questions for the police? Sorry, I don't think my question was answered, though, by the police. My question is, my understanding from what's been said is that what this license would do is allow the pub to have a number of events, and I'm not talking about the larger events, so the sub-300 events. What has been discussed is weddings. Does this not allow for weddings and other events that have not yet been tabled or discussed? That's my question. So, like I just said in answer to the previous question, the condition that says any events, both weddings and ticketed events, shall only be held between the 1st of March and 30th of September, to reiterate, the events are the weddings and the ticketed events. That's why I put that bit in rather than just saying any events will only be held between the 1st of March and 30th of September, because that was my understanding from speaking to the applicant that that was the plan for the use of this premises. So that is weddings plus ticketed events, so there will be other events. On the license application put forward by Steve, it does suggest that they want to add additional events, craft things, family events, on top of weddings and additionally to the four ticketed events of 1000 people. So we're giving them approximately 180 days that could be filled with an event of some kind is what the police are suggesting. So, again, one of the questions was on the police report, but maybe the applicant would like to answer that more. Can you put more detail on the events you think you might have in the field of the extra events? I don't have to if you don't want to. Obviously, the question was aimed at the police. Okay. So, yeah, I can see where there's some confusion here. Our intention is, as previously mentioned, we hold the weddings, we won't move all the weddings. It's just to be able to offer some weddings into the field and whether they all go law or none of them. We have our main two ticketed events. The police license authority has made an allowance for two more ticketed events. We may or may not even take them up. But in the original license application, we did say, look, with the field there, which costs us a substantial amount of money to actually lease, we've just played around with ideas of things like maybe another family day or little craft shows, things, something like that. But nothing on the same level of the dog show and certainly nothing regular seven days a week or 180 days a year. No. As I've said previously, we're incredibly busy as it is. We're not in the game to grossly advance what we've already been doing. Thank you very much indeed. Thank you. Thank you. So, please do. Sorry, just to add to that as well. In terms of the ticketed events part of it, that was something that I suggested to the applicant in terms of that's a way that you can then know numbers in advance if you're selling tickets in advance. Tickets on the door, even if they're free tickets, still making sure that there's a ticket system in place so that you know how many people are there. The reason why I said any time when the customer numbers exceed 300 to make it a ticketed event was because some people do have larger weddings. And if I was to put a limit of 100, say, if somebody then wanted a wedding with 150 people, you've got the space for that. But it was to try and mitigate and to make sure that weddings were separate from these ticketed events and that was going to be the distinction between them. Thank you. So are there any more questions for the police on the report? Okay, thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. I now ask the people who've made representations to take it in turn who'd like to speak. And we also have written representations, which I believe are going to be read out by the licensing team leader. Okay, thank you. So who'd like to go first? Right, so I'll go first. First, I'd like to apologize for not being with you all in person. I've asked a neighbor, that's me, I'm a neighbor, reading my comments in my absence as I believe this issue is very important. I believe granting this application being contravention of all four of the criteria applicable to license applications. First, I believe there is a very real danger to public safety. A field where events would be held is an open field without secure boundaries. Children already wander into the road and around the pond from the events in the defined premises of the pub. With hundreds more people at events in both the pub and Blue Welly events, the risk of harm to children will be increased. Public safety will be paramount in the minds of the licensing committee, but that has already been put at risk with events at the pub and the high volume of traffic they entail. But this new license, which would allow events Monday to Sunday, five months a year, and the consumption of alcohol for more than 14 hours a day, would hugely increase the danger to pedestrians, especially children walking to the village or home from school. There is no public transport in the village, so they have no choice but to walk. The further safety issue involves the fact that both roads into the village only allow single file traffic and there are no pavements, which can be hazardous on a normal day. However, on a day when there is an event of between 300 to 1,000 people, this would increase the dangers dramatically and would undoubtedly increase the risk to children and to general public safety. Prevention of public nuisance. There is already a public nuisance element to the events held at the Spring Head pub when the only road that runs through the village is blocked with bumper to bumper cars for the entire day. Residents are literally trapped in their homes. Last year, I -- that's Caramelone, not me. I'm just reading this -- couldn't get out of my drive for six hours. I can live with that inconvenience once a year. However, if a number of events permitted under the licenses were to increase, it's not just inconvenience residents that would be the problem. Ambulances, fire engines and emergency services would not be able to get through Sutton Point's only narrow roads. Prevention of crime and disorder. There is very definitely a public nuisance from the events already staged by the Spring Head. When the pub shuts its doors, people who have been at these events, televised football parties, weddings, are roaming around the village late at night, drunk, shouting and creating a nuisance. Not only do they throw beer cans and litter into people's gardens, but cars have been willfully damaged. That kind of alcohol-fueled behavior frightens people, many of whom live alone, and that constitutes a public nuisance. It also speaks to crime and disorder. If this license is granted and Blue Welly Events becomes very successful in its own right, there would be two competing events companies involving huge numbers of people operating within yards of each other in this very small village. This might not be the case now, but it could be a future scenario, and it would be fraught with danger. Even if this never happened, and there can be no guarantee it won't, there is the concern that with licensed premises already operating in this small village, and staging events involving hundreds of people, to create a second activity which would involve thousands more people would hugely increase the already noticeable problems. In the spirit of compromise, if Blue Welly was to set a limit on the number of events it was to stage, and make that a legally binding restriction, together with a noise limit for outdoor music, I would be happy to consider that. I want local businesses to flourish and to enjoy what is now a very well-run popular village pub, but not at the expense of children's safety, public disorder, and public nuisance. Thank you. Thank you very much, it would be very difficult for you to answer questions on someone else's letter, so what I'll do if I may, if we now hear from all those making representations, if you agree, and then we'll go through the questions from everybody at the end of your representations. Okay, are you happy with that? Yeah. Okay. Thank you. So now if we go to Gail. I'm reading one from Mr. and Mrs. Harmsworth. Do you want to hear that one first? Okay. Myself and my family, unfortunately, are unable to attend the meeting in regard to the Blue Welly license application. We've asked our neighbour, Gail Parwood, to read out the statement on our behalf. We object to the above license application because we feel that the extra visitors, with and without vehicles, will have a detrimental effect on this beautiful village. We are happy with the current situation with the Spring Head pub and the occasional events, but we think extra visitors to this field behind the pub will cause a lot of unwanted problems. On the last bank holiday Monday, myself and my wife witnessed a near-miss accident in the road outside when a small child ran into the road from the entrance to the pub and was nearly knocked down by a car. All was okay and no one was hurt, but it made us realise that the traffic and children's safety could be a problem when events are being held. The day this occurred, there was a wedding party being held and we could not get in or out of the village. What would it be like with different business events being held on the same day and possibly every day? We already have some issues, but in the spirit of cooperation and a healthy village life, we are happy to compromise regardless of nightly disturbances, traffic noise and general nuisance. I want it to be clear that this license Blue Valley Events Limited are applying for is in addition to the one they are currently holding for events that are hosted within the pub and the pub grounds. They are currently applying for four ticketed events in the village of between 300 and 1,000 people every year between the 1st of March and the 28th of September. Granting this license to Blue Valley Events would hugely increase the number of events and additionally allow them, on top of the four ticketed events, 179 daily events that can run from 10am till 11pm and opening hours from 10am till midnight. This is unthinkable for a small village like Sutton Points. There are already people in the village who live alone and feel vulnerable due to the noise and disturbance that already exists courtesy of these events held under the current license. They have told me that it is affecting their mental health. For me personally, I do not want to be a prisoner in the village where I fear coming across drunk and disorderly people. Under the prevention of crime and disorder Nino raises, there are already disturbances late at night after closing time when people spill onto the road, shouting, swearing and on at least two occasions that I have seen fighting. This level of disturbance will hugely increase now, so my question is what preventative measures will be put in place and who will be responsible for doing that? Under the heading Public Safety, as you all know Sutton Road is narrow, parked cars on either side, no pavement which means pedestrians have to dart in and out between parked vehicles. In order not to be hit by traffic, in my previous correspondence with the committee I have been told that this issue falls under the Highways Agency and has nothing to do with granting the license to Blue Valley Events. There has to be cause and effect here surely. The Licensing Committee cannot abdicate responsibility for a situation it would facilitate if it were to grant this license. It would pose a hugely increased risk to residents, particularly children. I would like it to be a matter for the public record that the Licensing Committee has been warned by numerous objectors of the dangers of this new license if it were to be granted. Another breach of public safety would be the hindered access of emergency surfaces to the venue when the only road to the village is blocked by queueing traffic, which it is for hours during all the current major events. Again, I would like this to go on record because in case there is a situation where emergency vehicles cannot get into the village. Under the heading Prevention of Public Nuisance, by vastly increasing the number of people who will come to the events, there will also be vastly increased cases of public nuisance. Villagers know from experience that once the pub doors are closed, people, many of whom have been drinking for hours, spill out onto the road, shouting, urinating, fighting, empty bottles found, condoms, drugs and paraphernalia are found in people's gardens and in the stream, broken plant pots and rubbish thrown, et cetera. The protection of children from harm. There have already been incidents of unsupervised children running from the insecure field at the back of the pub across the road and into the pond. It is by luck and not design that they were not hurt. Thank you for the opportunity and time to present my objections, Nino. Thank you very much indeed. Would you like to take a deep breath before you do yours and I'll ask someone else to speak or would you like to do yours now? I can do it now if you like. Okay, fair enough. Thank you. Okay, I'd like to make it really clear that I want our village pub, the Spring Head, to be successful and I'm personally a great supporter of the pub. I also want to make it clear that I support them with the current level of events held within the pub grounds, such as Scarfest, Sausage Festival and weddings, all run under their existing licence held by Blue Welly Events. And I expect that this is a great way for the pub to generate additional revenue and survive in a very tough time for all of us in business. I'd also like to support the use of the field adjoining the pub as an alternative location for some of these current events. However, I'd like to raise the following objection to the application being discussed. This is a new application for a licence and it does not replace the one that Blue Welly Events currently holds for events within the pub grounds. This is an additional licence for additional events. And while we are currently being offered assurances by the pub, but not Blue Welly Events, nothing will change. The purpose of any new business is to generate income and therefore potentially increase the number of events they hold. The new licence application does not make any reference to the annual number of events that can take place other than the four ticketed events covering numbers between 300 and 1,000 people. Between the 1st of March and the 28th of September, this new licence would be allowing Blue Welly Events approximately 179 additional days of the year to run a daily event should they choose. I assume that the events allowed under the current licences within the pub will also continue alongside. While the pubs, not Blue Welly, have stated that they do not wish to increase the number of events currently held, it is listed on the licence application that they would like to increase those. I would like to see within the licence agreement an exact number of events being allowed across the existing location at the rear of the pub and the field adjoining. A big concern also is that this is a separate business to the pub, but the pub has stated that they, should they, Blue Welly, cease to lease the field in the future, they would want to terminate the licence. However, what controls do the council have should they cease to lease the Spring Head pub? Once we've given permission to have an events business operating in the field adjacent to the pub for the entire period of the 1st of March, the 29th of September, the new pub tenants would then apply to gain permission to operate additional events because they will need to generate revenue for themselves. This is just looking to the future and trying to just cover all options, you know, I don't want to see two events businesses in the village. There must therefore be a clause within whatever permission is agreed that only the pub tenants can operate events in the field should they lease this field, in addition that the field lease holder cannot operate an events business solely in this field. I would also like to understand how these events held in the field will be catered for. Will camping be allowed regularly? Will permanent structures be erected as catering facilities, toilets, bars? I would like to see that if this is allowed that it's on a specified number of events and they would be removed between events. What requirement will be made for Blue Welly events to clear up any mess caused in the village as people have made comment on that? While again apparently not covered by the application, what impact will this events business have on a relatively small and peaceful community with no restrictions on type or number of events being allowed? Surely the number of events needs to be agreed prior to any new licensing being issued and restricted to an agreed and much lower number of days. What I would support personally if the current license isn't working due to numbers is an extension of numbers of people to the four ticketed events requested, but with no addition to the number of days being allowed for additional events. Whatever that number is currently kind of sticking to that. In conclusion, it must be understood that Blue Welly events is a separate business to the Spring Head pub and as a business owner myself, I can see that the need would be to generate as much income as possible. So I support our pub and current level of external events operated by Blue Welly, but granting an additional permanent license with very few conditions would be absolutely the wrong decision for the village and the community and surrounding area as a whole. Thank you. Thank you very much indeed. Thank you. Now come to Paul Cherry. Hello. Thank you for having me. To talk firstly, if I start sniffing, I apologize in advance. Hay fee for today is not going well. Right. I live in Sutton Road not far from the pub, and it's a lovely pub in an area of outstanding natural beauty. Lots of dog owners go there. Lots of locals go there. I go there with friends and family, and I would say it is a definite asset to the community, to the village. Having said that, I do find some of their events already intrusive. I have major concerns about it becoming an events venue and more events than are currently suggested. Potentially, we could have two sets of licenses, or we could have two sets of events to two separate licenses, and we could generate far more events than is currently being suggested. There's also the fact that hasn't been raised before. I think under temporary events licenses, there could be even more events over and above this license application. So potentially three different issues here. We are told that there's no intention to increase the number of events, but as Vicky has stated, it's not saying that in the license application. That's a real concern, and it was also mentioned when I questioned the licensee about other events, and I think he said that there's possibility of family days and others, so this just adds up. Again, as Vicky has mentioned, as a business owner, you want to generate more income. If it's your primary source of income, it's vitally important to do so. So if I were in the publican's place, I would be trying to generate as much income as possible and as many events as possible. I wasn't made aware of the Blue Welly application until recently, and I contacted the licensing officer or officers who I have to say have been extremely helpful, just answering my endless questions. One of my major concerns is traffic and noise, and I was told by a counselor to contact Environmental Health. Environmental Health didn't submit any protests on this, which I frankly find amazing. Like others in the village, on the first dog inside a festival, I'm stuck in my own house for six hours. I couldn't go in the garden because of the diesel particulates. How then could emergency services get access? The traffic was back to Chalbury Corner. The four areas that we can appeal on are crime and disorder. Sadly, we've already noticed after alcohol has been consumed for 8 to 14 hours, the behavior is usually loud and unpleasant. There has been damage to cars, items thrown in residents' gardens, people urinating in the pond and gardens, as well as swearing and some road rage. I was out by my car at 16.25 on Saturday, and I noticed three individuals go by, two with polycarbonate glasses filled with beer. They were verbally abusing a slowly moving taxi driver. The two are linked. Public safety, I've already touched on narrow roads, but how could emergency services get to an instant at the pub if the roads are chock-a-block with the volume of cars? And there has, it is a given from the dog inside a festival that that would be a major issue. Public safety, there's very limited access down the narrow roads with cars often parked. So, there is no pavement in Sutton Road. You've got the mix of cars, children, dogs, pushchairs, horses, all compromising safety. Prevention of public nuisance, I can't believe that the option to play music six days a week to 2300 is not a public nuisance. It's a particularly tranquil village. That's why the vast majority of people have moved to Sutton Point and think it's such a wonderful place. Prevention of children from home, on many occasions we've seen unattended children run across from the pub to the pond. I'd do it if I was their age. My partner saw it on Saturday when a child was nearly knocked over as that child ran to the pub. How is that going to be stopped? For those reasons, I would strongly suggest that you turn down this application. If, however, you do approve this application, I would like in the spirit of compromise to set a limitation. A specific number legally binding on the number of weddings and other specified events and ideally no more than two ticketed events. Thank you. Thank you very much and I'm sure your questions will be answered shortly. And Sue? Last but not least, you've all said it all already. Firstly, I would like to say that I live in very close proximity to the Spring Head pub. I'm actually next door and I've always enjoyed a good relationship with all of the family who run it. Therefore, my comments and objections here today are in no way personal. I have always supported the two large Blue Welly events in the village, that being the scar event and the Sausage Dog and Cider Festival. I have, in fact, assisted with the traffic and crowd control at said events at Joe's request. My objections to this licensing of the field is mainly concerned with the potential for antisocial behaviour, both during the planned events and afterwards. Alcohol consumption can often lead to violent crimes and vandalism of nearby properties. I have already witnessed several instances of vandalism within the village from alcohol fuelled young people whilst awaiting taxes after an event at the pub and/or field. I do accept that I have to expect a certain amount of disturbance living so close to a pub. However, an increase of events and customer capacity would inevitably lead to an increase in antisocial behaviour, which would affect my mental health as I fear for mine and my property's safety. Blue Welly has stated that there is no intention to use the field for anything else other than what they currently do now, yet the application allows for up to four ticket events of 1,000 people a year. Why has this not been limited to the two that they have currently requested? Also, Blue Welly has stated that they have personally requested that if they come to lose the field in the future, they would want to be able to terminate the premises license along with it. But what if they can't? Could that mean events at the Spring Head continue and another party takes over the license of the field so the village would be left with two events businesses? In conclusion, I am happy for the two current festivals to continue. I would also be happy with the license being granted in the field for a limited number of weddings with a maximum of 300 people only. I must, however, object to any more large events, i.e. more than 300 people. I would kindly request that if this license is granted, that it is restricted to the two current large events and weddings only, which would concur with the statement of Joe's letter of intention to the village on 22nd May 2024. Thank you. Thank you very much. And I'll ask Catherine if she'd like to read any others we have here. Thank you, Chair. So the first one I've got is from Laura Jacobs, who's objector, well, she's not, she's in support of the application number four in appendix five of the report. Good evening. Having now received and reviewed the latest document and supplementary information in connection with the above application, I felt compelled to write to provide further details as to why I'm in support of this application. I understand, following a conversation with Aileen Powell, this email was shared with the committee members. I live in one of the closest houses in the village to the field. We are always informed by Joe, Karen or Steve when an event is taking place and the timings including no live music outside past 10pm. Over the past six years of living in our property, we've always found the timings to be adhered to. In addition to the above, the two festivals they run have never caused any issues. They have a large field for parking and another field that they use for it from a local farmer for their charity, dog, sausage and cider festival. In respect of these festivals, I also wanted to mention the Scar Festival held this last weekend. It was exceptionally well organised, finished on time and the festival goers, many of whom were locals, left the village without causing any disruption. It may be of interest to the committee that Scar Fest used to be organised by Wendy, who was a previous landlady of the spy ship in Preston, the pub up the road. Wendy always ran it as a two day festival going on much later into the evening, I believe 11pm as opposed to the Spring Head one day event finishing at 9pm. Finally, and as mentioned in previous correspondence, the Spring Head is a real asset to the village, run by a lovely family who work expect, expect, expectantly hard, exceptionally hard to make the pub work in tough times for the industry, particularly over the last few years. It would be incredibly disappointing not to be able to support this application. And the other one I have which everybody has got copies of is from Mr Williams and he is number one in appendix five and this is in support. Dear members, thank you for accepting this letter, sorry I cannot be present. I wholly support this application. I occupy the only property that every room faces the field, see the first photo. I'm always informed in advance of an event occurring, possibly six to eight a year, and what time the music is turned off, which is always before the closing time of the pub. I'm also contacted the day after to make sure everything was fine. Steve German family run the pub in a very professional manner. In the 10 years they have run it, they have turned it around from never opening to being busy. It is a community asset on Friday nights, nearly the whole village meets up. We cannot let this pub go the same way as other village pubs like Osmington. The application will enable this to continue and is a great employer for the area. Most local children have been employed at some time in their life at Spring Head and come back between term time from university. The application will enable events to be moved further away from the heart of the village, which I believe must be a huge compromise to some people. As mentioned above, it will probably only affect me. I also attach photos of an event held recently by Blue Welly at the Spring Head, and it shows how well it was run. I was just wandering around at different times of the day being a nosy neighbour. I noticed parking marshals directing traffic to the access way before the pubs and no parking around the pond, taxi drop off points, bag and security checks, making sure you're on the list. I therefore believe granting this license will allow a pub to survive and continue helping our community and providing employment for young local people. Thank you, Raj. Have we heard from everybody who wanted to make representations? I think we have. Thank you. I'll just ask members, do you have any questions for those who've made representations? No. No, thank you. So Mr Williams says that the people from the pub contact him after the event and ask if everything was fine. I just wondered if that was typical. Thank you. Thank you. And the licensing team, did you have any questions for those who've made representations? I do have some points that I'll clarify, but I can do that at the end if you like. Do you need an answer to the question? The people over there, yeah. I'll come to the applicant. Do you have any questions for those who've made representations, please? No, no questions. No questions to ask, no. Responsible authorities, do you have any comments or questions for those who've made representations? No questions, thank you. What we do now, we give everyone the opportunity to sum up and we do that in reverse order. So if I come back to you, and this is your chance to have a last say over and above, you've heard from people, you've heard from the people here today, which may give you a slightly different feeling about the whole application. Your chance now to sum up. So shall we do it in the same order, John? Well, in Carolyn Malone's absence, I don't think I can say what she would say to sum up, I'm sorry. And Gail? So I think my summary would be, again, I do really support the problem of the state and the current number of events. What I'm very nervous, okay, is it on now? Okay, so in summary, I want to make it really clear that I fully support the pub and attend events that they hold now, and I really want them to do well. What I am very nervous about is an additional events business operating outside of the pub. So I think there needs to be something put in place that says the two things, I know they are separate, but they need to be inclusive of each other, because we can't, the village is not big enough to support a field with an events company and a separate pub with an events business. And I think that's my nervousness of this application, but I'm fully supportive of the current level of events that they hold. Thank you very much indeed. Does anybody else like to add to what they've brought to us already in summing up? Yeah, I would reiterate what Gail Harwood, sorry, I would reiterate what Vicky said, and just to sum up, yeah, my past experience of public nuisance and antisocial behaviour and crime and disorder is obviously a concern that that is going to increase with more events and more weddings, etc. Thank you. Thank you. Hi, yes, I agree with the last statement. I'm very happy with the current level of weddings and the two large festivals. I have never had reason to complain about the noise, because that, in all honesty, doesn't bother me, but I am frightened if these events increase for my own safety, living in such close proximity on a house that I'm restricted, I cannot put a garden fence, so people wander into my drive all the time. So I would absolutely support the current level of events, but I would be very frightened if that increased, especially the large events. Thank you. Wrong one. Sorry, please do. Did I ignore you? Sorry about that. I won't take it personally. I'd just like to reiterate, it's great to have a pub and a lovely pub in the village, and I do support that pub. This application appears to give an open-ended possibility of far more events, potentially by two companies. What I would like is a legally binding restriction on the number of events, large events and small, so that the village, which we all love, is safeguarded. The current scenario is we don't want to do any more events. What happens if something dramatically changes? Without a legally binding limitation, there is no guarantee. We could end up with X number of events, four or five times the number of events, as well as my understanding temporary events licenses, and maybe the more experienced colleagues here who are specialists could advise on that. Please, if you are to approve, limit specifically saying what can happen and what cannot happen for the benefit of all of us. Thank you. Thank you very much, indeed, and thank you for that. Obviously, everything that you said, we take away and weigh up, and we think about in our deliberations. Let's go now back to the police. Would you like to sum up? Thank you, Chair. In summary, obviously, the conditions that I put forward are what the premises would have to abide by. If there are any breach of these conditions, then we would take action. Likewise, as Catherine pointed out at the start, if at any point this premises license is granted and somebody isn't happy with it, they are entitled to review what's going on, and likewise, we would do that. We do have quite a history within our team of reviewing premises licenses when they're not up to scratch. So the conditions that we've put out, I feel are fair and reasonable for what has been requested, and I think does say that they can only have up to those four larger events and the weddings, and that's what I put forward. In relation to the temporary event notices, I'm sure that Catherine would mention it as well, but anybody could apply for any of them at any point at any premises, and so if they chose to do that, they're well within their rights to and as could anybody else. But any temporary event notices that are submitted also come through to our team to look at, so I would be given sight of it, and if there was anything that we weren't happy with, we are entitled to object to those as well. So if there was something that we weren't happy with from a policing perspective, we'd take appropriate action there as well. So I think that's all. Thank you. Thank you very much indeed. Thank you. Now come back to the applicant. You've listened to all the people. You've spoken to us. If only you'd like to do anything else, you'd like to add it in summing up. This is, this is, the stage is yours. Thanks for that. Yeah, I think, I think it's fair to say that we live in the village. We take everyone's comments on board. There are a few which we find a little bit strange. For example, antisocial behaviour, glasses in people's driveways. One of those driveways in question is a shared driveway with Karen and Joe's mother, who reports no such thing. Not that we're saying it doesn't happen, but we have also never ever in the 12 years been informed of it happening. So we can't take action against some of these things that are happening, which we are happy to take action against, if we're not made aware of them. As regards to children running in roads, I'm sorry, they're not my children. Child safety is absolutely key. I do worry about my own daughter. The pond is an incredible attraction. It is something that makes the village exceptionally beautiful. Children will be children, but unfortunately that is the parent's responsibility. Unless you're going to erect a six foot fence around the entire pub, I don't think that can be, you know, warranted as an issue. The field being an open problem, I find strange. It's entirely surrounded by 10 to 12 foot hedge row and three gates which can be secured. Obviously, one of them is not secured because that is the means and ways in and out of the field. So again, children running out of that onto the road, I just can't see as an issue. But let's get to the crux of it. We appreciate your comments, supporters of the village, supporters of the pub. We have been there a long time. Some of you not so much, but you've been involved with the pub. You do come in. As I say more, Nathan, we would like to know more about the issues. If you made us aware, we would tackle them earlier. Like I say, glassware over your drives. We're not aware of them. Vandalism on cars, we're not aware of them. Only the police, I guess, could comment if anything like that has actually officially been reported or if it's, you know, fabricated, I don't know. What I think we would say is we're sort of having a discussion here with ourselves just in line to the bits and pieces you're saying, but we are responsible people. We will take your bits and pieces into account. The biggest concern in line with what the licensing is, I guess, would be the amount of events we are doing. We are stressing we're not looking to do any more. I understand from your comments and the way the license is provisionally on paper, yes, it looks like we could do 179 days of events, which obviously we're not going to. We could certainly agree to something being put in place for a limited amount, but in the interests of an already successful business, we can't, we won't restrict necessarily what we're doing. It would be something along the lines of the 12 weddings that we're doing. We already do two ticketed events. We would like to do, let's say, maybe one more, but the other bits that we talked about, things that we'd like to add would be things like the comedy nights that we do currently hold in the pub. Well, if the marquee is going to be moved to the field for the weddings, the comedy nights would need to move as well. We do maybe five of those a year and maybe a barn dance. So it would be a case of, you know, 12 weddings, three to four ticketed events and maybe five other random events, which might be, like I say, a craft fair or the comedy nights. If you wanted to put that in and say, look, that's the maximum you can do, we would be happy with that because as I say, we're not looking to do more. We are busy people as it is. We don't have the capacity to actually do more, let alone 179 days more. So, you know, we're here, we're listening, we can compromise on things, but ultimately survival is key. I think we've been open and fair. We've spoken to the relevant licensing authorities, the police licensing, agreed to all, you know, restrictions and bits and pieces that are put in there, even volunteered some ourselves. And even now we are willing to look at, okay, the biggest problem seems to be the amount of events, you know, if we want to put something in writing for that on the license, it says it's 12 weddings, X amount of ticketed events and X amount of ad hoc other events. I think we could be happy with that because, again, we're not looking to do a huge amount more by any stretch. Thank you. Thank you very much. What about your colleagues? Would you like to add anything at all? No? You've come all this way and you've been really quiet. I'll now ask the licensing team leader if she'd like to sum up, please. Sorry, I just wanted to clarify one point made by Steve. I am the lady that shares the drive with his -- Joanne, Karen's mom. I did not say in my report that I'd had glassware left on my drive. There has never been any glassware left on mine or my neighbor's drive. That was somebody else. I just wanted to clarify that point. Okay, thank you very much for clarifying that with the licensing team leader. Thank you, Chairman. Yeah, just a few points to clarify. Again, it's a bit of a stuck record, but we're not taking roads into account or parking or highways. Again, not taking other premises into account. This is purely for the field and not the pub. Somebody mentioned about camping. That's not a licensable activity, so that wouldn't fall under us. And permanent structures, that would need to be a planning issue. Temporary event notices, yes, they can be applied for on top of. However, as Kirsty has already stated, they can object to it as can environmental health, the only two people that can. But they can also have a temporary event notice and add additional conditions for the premises if this were to be granted. So if this field license is to be granted with the conditions and any other additional ones that may be put on, those tens could have those conditions added to them. That's it. Thank you. Thank you very much indeed. Laura, have we covered all the points? Yes, Chair, I think you've covered everything. Thank you very much. And does everybody here feel they've had a fair say? Yeah, they're not going to go away and be cross because we've got it wrong or anything like that. You've had a say and it's been fair and open. In which case, as long as you're all happy with how the meeting has gone, we'll now conclude the public past the meeting. I'm going to come to that. We'll now conclude the public part of the meeting. We'll retire, consider everything. Our decision will be notified in writing, hopefully within five working days, that you will have, anybody here would have the right of appeal. The applicant, the person making representations, the police, has the right of appeal to Weymouth Magistrates Court within 28 working days. Is that okay? Okay. And you're all happy. So thank you ever so much for attending and we shall now retire and consider everything we've heard. Thank you and come to a decision.