Transcript

Good evening members, officers, tonight's Corporate Policy and Resources meeting. Before we start, I'd just like to also make a welcome to Councillor Paul Swift, whose first meeting as Vice-Chairman of the meeting. Welcome, Paul. Thank you very much, Chair. Thank you. Housekeeping. There's no planned fire alarm this evening, so if the fire alarm does go off, please exit the building at the nearest point. The fire assembly point is outside near the fountain. The meeting is being webcast, so please speak loudly into the microphones, and if I happen to leave my microphone on, which I quite often do, please remind me to switch it off. Now to the agenda. Apologies for absence. Thank you, Chairman. Full House this evening, no apologies. That's good. Item 2, public participation. Up to 15 minutes are allowed for public participation. Katie, have we got any - No submitted questions and nobody in the gallery, Chairman. Thank you. Item 3, minutes of the previous meeting. We have two sets of minutes to consider this evening. Firstly, one for the approval to confirm the correct record of the minutes of the Corporate Policy Resources meeting held on the 11th of April, 2024. Can I have a proposer, please? Councillor Burley, thank you very much, and seconder. Councillor Fleetwood, thank you. A show of hands to all those in favour. That's carried. Thank you very much. Item 2, secondly for noting, the minutes of the Joint Staff Consultative Committee meeting held on the 28th of March, 2024. If there were no comments, these would be noted and we'll move on. So have we got any comments on that? No comments from the floor. Thank you very much. So we'll move on to our next item. Item 4, decorations of interest, as normal members may make a decoration of interest at this point or any point during the meeting. Councillor Burley. Thank you, Chairman. Yes, could I declare an interest in Paper 6(1), which is Household Support Fund 5. It speaks about delivery of the funding through the voluntary and community sector. And in Section 4.1 of the report, it says, for example, and it includes Age UK, that's in our area, that is Age UK Lindsay. And I'm a trustee and director of Age UK Lindsay. And I would like to take advice, please, if I may. Do I need to abstain from voting or leave the room or am I okay to continue, please? It is a matter for the individual member, Councillor Burley. However, I think you would need to take into consideration whether you would be receiving any financial benefit from the interest that you've declared. Thank you. Thanks for that. Councillor Smith. Thank you, Chairman. With respect to Item 6(1), which is the Household Support Fund, I provide casework support to Case to Food Bank, but I do not reply for grants in any way, shape or form and do not take any financial remuneration for that work. It's all voluntary, Chairman, so I believe I am more than in a position to vote on the matter. Thank you. Thank you very much for that. Councillor Snee. I sometimes refer people to the Household Support Fund through my day job, but there's no financial gain to me as an individual. Thanks for that. That's noted, Katie. Thank you. Item 5, Matters Arising Schedule, setting out the current position as previously agreed in the actions as of 15 May. Pass you over to Katie to introduce. Thank you, Chairman. Quite a slim matters arising. I don't propose to take members through it, but if there are any questions or comments, then I can feed those back to the relevant officers. Otherwise, we'd just note the schedule. Okay. Any comments? Okay. That's noted. Thank you very much. Item 6, the Public Reports for Approval. Item 1, it's the Household Support Fund 5. And Angela, I believe you're taking this. Thank you. Thank you very much. Yeah, I'm here to present a report to tell you how much money we've been offered by Lincolnshire County Council and to explain the proposed scheme of distribution for the money and to ask for your approval of the proposed scheme. As the name suggests, it's Household Support Fund 5. So it's the fifth round of funding that we've received under the Household Support Fund heading. We've already distributed £1.6 million to West Lindsay residents under the previous four schemes. The scheme is - the money is paid to Lincolnshire County Council via the DWP. It's £5.4 million, and it has to be spent by the 30th of September, so it's a six-month scheme. Household Support Fund 4 was a 12-month scheme, and we got quite considerably more - well, we got double. We got £10.9 million. The scheme, as it stands, is incorporating the best of the previous schemes. So over the previous four schemes, we've trialled distributing the money by lots of different methods, and some were very successful and some were very labor-intensive. They were successful for the customer but very labor-intensive for the offices involved and the organizations involved in distributing money. So we have been offered - the report says we've been offered 245. It's actually 241. So the Lincolnshire County Council have done their sums, and they are distributing an awful lot of the fund to families who are entitled to free school meals, and the county are doing that directly through the schools to households within Lincolnshire. There's about 26,000 families that are going to benefit from £110 per child. So they are keeping that money back, and then the rest of the money they are distributing between the seven district councils. So our pot is going to be 241,000, and we've looked at what we can do with that amount of money by the 30th of September. If it's not spent by the 30th of September, it has to go back to the Department for Work and Pensions, which we don't want to do, and Lincolnshire County Council don't want to do that either. So the proposal is that we use an organization that we used under Household Support Fund 4, who are a charitable organization who run funds whereby people can apply for the funding. So they are prepared to administer an application-based scheme for all West Lindsay residents to apply for funding, and we work together with them to set the criteria, to set the amount of funding each family would get, and also the same organization is proposing to work with East Lindsay, South Holland, Boston, and South Castilian. So they are a recognized Lincolnshire-based charity, and they administer funds for quite a few organizations, not just local councils. So we've got a very good track record with them through Household Support Fund 4. So we're proposing that 60% of the money goes to them to distribute because the DWP, in their guidance for Household Support Fund 5, have put a heavy onus on application-based schemes. And we know from a West Lindsay point of view that those schemes are very labor-intensive, and the scheme that we run in HSF 3 nearly broke us, basically. We had so many applications for such a small pot of money that we tried it, and it was a success for the people who got the money, but it wasn't a success for us. So we're proposing that 60% goes through to this charitable organization to distribute. 35% goes to voluntary organizations, food banks, and charities, which, again, we've tried and tested under HSF 2, 3, and 4. And Grant White has been very, very helpful in getting that out because it's organizations that he works with on a daily basis. And then we're proposing that we keep 5% for internal administration and for contingencies. If it looks like internal administration isn't going to cost us the 5%, beginning of September, we're going to start distributing that out so that it can go to customers. Because what happened in HSF 4 is that at the 11th hour, mid-March, and it had to be spent by the end of March, the county were left with a pot of fund that they put aside for contingencies, and they weren't going to spend it. So basically they distributed it out to each of the seven district councils, and we had about two weeks to get it out to organizations that we knew could then distribute it to customers. So that's the proposal so far for the £241,000 that we've been awarded, and I would like approval of the scheme, but any questions first? Thanks, Angela, for that. I think you've described that very well for all members in terms of what's a really important fund, a really important time for people. I think we're still in the midst, I think, in terms of cost of living and the impact around it and the importance around some of these types of services which people provide from this scheme, from this fund. So thank you for that. I've got a number of speakers to go to talk through this. Council Snee. Thank you. It's very sad in this day and age that we require such a fund as this, and we're working within a flawed benefit system. However, we are where we are, and rightly so, we're using the skills that we've obtained previously, and administrating this fund from the past waves of this funding, and that's to ensure that we distribute it to the most deserving people. So I'd like to propose the paper with all its recommendations as given by you tonight. Thanks for that. Council Burley. Thank you very much, Chairman, and I agree with your opening remarks, and thank you very much for the paper. I think this is a superb paper. You haven't mentioned the organization that we worked with last time, so I won't, but certainly from a member perspective, it worked very, very well. I think this is an occasion where time is of the essence because we're in towards the end of May now, and the money has to be allocated by the end of September. Any question that I have, and I've read the paper very carefully, but the corresponding two previous papers, the one for HSF-3 and HSF-4, the government had given a clear indication that they wished the funding to reach people that hadn't benefited before. I can't see that in this. Is there any particular reason for that? I mean, that is nothing against the proposal, which I wholly support, but that would be useful clarification. I think it would be useful as well for whoever the distribution partners are. Thank you. This particular household support fund, there is no other funding going out directly from the DWP to customers on benefits, so basically they are saying that the household support fund 5 is for absolutely everybody to apply for. Under household support fund 4, the DWP were paying cost of living payments directly to benefit customers, and they benefited from £900 last year. That has not happened in 2024-25, so household support fund 5, basically the government have actually said, spread it as far as you can, and we could end up with applications from people we've never ever heard of from before, or we could end up with applications from people that have previously benefited from cost of living. They haven't had any funding this year, and they're not going to get any direct funding for cost of living, so they will then be applying to the household support fund. But the good thing is that families with children, if they're entitled to free school meals, they will already get £110 of the county money per child that is in education or early years. I suppose the risk and the problem, the challenges, I suppose, is that come September onwards, and what happens then in terms of all these people in need and these providers being able to sustain some sort of delivery? That's, I suppose, the challenge for us as the local authority and serving the local communities, is it in terms of what's going to happen September onwards. Councillor Bunny. Thank you very much, Chair. I obviously do welcome the fund, and I'm pleased that you recognise that those children who are on free school meals will get sponsored support from the council. But picking up a point that Councillor Bailey made, there are a number of families who might not have children of school age who are unable to work for the same reasons that people of school age who get free school meals are, and they fall beneath the net, and I think that's one thing that we do as a group that we do need to remember are there. And actually, I might say sometimes when people have moved on from school and gone into college, and might not be on the full benefits at post '19, are in the same position as well. So yes, the free school meals bit is there, and also they get money from the holidayship funds, but there are those two ends which can get bust out, and I'm sure that we'll be looking at them. Just picking up what the leader was saying and the chairman was saying, I am very concerned that this fund is going to come to an end, and I do believe that it's important that we as a group will, if not necessarily today, but certainly at the next council meeting, be putting forward a motion really making sure that we are putting as much pressure as we can on the Treasury and whichever government we might have to ensure that this fund continues, because there's no doubt it has made a lot of difference to people over the last three and a half years or four years, and it's been in existence, and sadly, as indicated by Councillor Snee, we still need that support. It's not going to disappear. So hopefully that's something we can bring up at the council meeting in July. Thank you very much for that. Councillor Fleetwood. Yes. I don't know how I'm going to approach this. First of all, I'm going to say excellent paper. Thank you for writing it. Thank you for doing all the background work, and thank you for making the other four schemes so successful that we've managed to deliver through those schemes. Society as a whole, we're talking about current times and we're talking about maybe the last 20 years. Society, we are looking at trying to keep people together and trying to look after those people who are not so fortunate. But if we look back over the many years, you can go back 200, 300 years, and you can still see people with issues, and hopefully at some level there's been some level of support for them. So the mechanism to support people in need has always been required and will always be required, because some people are probably slightly better at managing their situations, their finances, than others. I'm not saying that I'm not decrying anybody in any situation, but I'm sure that some people do manage to sort a situation slightly better. What concerns me is that we have a paper in front of us. We need to make sure it's delivered. We need to make sure it's delivered quickly, because this is resource, and it does us as a council no good having it in our bank account. It needs to be out with the end users, with the people with the need to look after them at this stage. Yes, another three or four months' time, this scheme will have run out, this fund will have disappeared, and we cross our fingers and hope that there might be some alternate fund coming forward, because that need will still be there from somebody somewhere, and there will always be that need. It doesn't matter. In society, there are always some people that do better than others. But we need to just make sure that we can put whatever resource we have out to the end users as quickly as possible. And on that basis, I'm quite happy to second the paper, and can you spend it tomorrow, please? Have I got any further speakers? No? Angela, do you want to make any other comments on it? Please. With what Councillor Fleetwood said, it's not actually in our bank account. We get it in arrears, but we have to wait for it. Yes, initial talks have actually been going on with all the organisations pending tonight's decision, so they are ready to go, basically. One of them phoned me yesterday to say, when is the meeting, when will we get the money? So hopefully, finance permitting, we will get the money out, and we'll start to get it out next week. So, yep, everything's ready to go pending tonight's decision. Good. You're doing a good job. Right, so I've had it proposed, and I've had it seconded. Yep. So can I have a show of hands, all those in favour? Thank you very much, that's carried. Thank you. Thanks for that. Thanks, Angela. Item 2, the launch of the customer experience strategy. I'll hand you over to Lynn, who's going to introduce the report. Thank you, Chair. So when we think about service levels within the Council, we should acknowledge that we have complex challenges and responsibilities when it comes to providing quality customer service. The majority of time, we do deliver excellent service provision, but this does not mean we should not aim to keep improving. When we experience poor service in the private sector, for example, we can often find a different provider or a different approach to our service provision. But when things go wrong at the Council, our customers don't have that luxury of choice. That's why it's important we have a customer experience strategy. The strategy before you is about the Council working towards creating the best possible customer experience we are able to utilise in the tools and resources we have currently available, and where relevant, using new techniques and technologies. We accept that our customers' perception of their journeys with us will vary, depending on their interaction with us and their own personal circumstances at the time that they interact with us. But we need to continue to ensure that their experience is consistent and smooth, regardless of how they contact the Council. Part of that journey is the need to build on a positive foundation. We will continue to improve our experiences and their perceptions of the Council. And as I've said before, we can do this by utilising the different technologies where we can, ensure we interact and support our customers across different services, if that's what they require, work harder to ensure our interactions with our customers are productive and consistent, see the bigger picture and add value when required, and continue to build upon proactive engagement with our customers to ensure our services reflect their needs and requests. We recognise that the customer services team will play a big part in the delivery of this strategy, but this is a Council-wide initiative. And a key message of this strategy is that we will provide consistent customer experience, and it's about everybody's job. As we are partway through this year for 24/25, the monitoring of the strategy, if adopted, will be monitored through the annual voice of the customer reports that you all receive. When we undertake the formal review of performance and delivery measures, we can then consider incorporating the outcomes of the strategy into the performance and delivery reporting, or we can continue to report via the quarterly and annual voice of customer reports. For members' awareness, the voice of the customer report is reported to management team before onward travel to governance and audit committee, and is then circulated to all members and also made available to the public via our website. Once the customer experience strategy is adopted, it will form the backbone of the customer services business plan that will be created later this year for 25/26. I also acknowledge that a communication and consultation strategy is being created by the communications team, and these two strategies will work together and complement each other, and we will ensure all our efforts and actions will work together for the benefits of our residents. Happy to take any questions, Chair. Thanks, Lynn, for that. I can - just when you look at this strategy itself, very simple strategy, but what's really good in it is the amount of data that's in there. And it's very telling in terms of how much - as a small local council, we deliver vast numbers, which even surprised me. I haven't been on the council for years, but when you start to see in terms of the numbers of delivery and the amount of people we deliver to, I think we do - it just highlights what a fantastic job the council does across all the services. So I particularly enjoyed that in terms of how simple it was, but that data in there was really good. Speakers. So, Councillor Burley. Thank you, Chairman. Once again, I entirely agree with your opening remarks. I think this is a fantastic report. I think it's a fantastic initiative. And I think what it does - you see, I probably live as far away from the Guildhall as any member of the council. And it's - this goes a long way to me, to guarantee equality of access and equality of service. Over the past few months and years, we have made tremendous strides in meeting customer expectations much more fully. And I'm thinking of the reported facility on the homepage of the website. But there are lots of other examples. Just another one, for example, if somebody spots fly tipping, then they can report it using a mobile phone to get an acknowledgement, and then they get a follow-up to say what's been done. And that is really important because of the reassurance that it gives to the person who's prepared to do that. And it benefits the whole of the district as well. So, yeah, I very much look forward to the reviews and the reporting mechanism. But thank you to you and to the team. And I'd like to move the recommendation, Chairman. Thank you. Thank you very much for that. Any more speakers? Councillor Bunny. Thank you very much. Obviously, it's a very important piece of work which we all support, and I'm quite happy to second the paper. Thank you. I've got nobody else indicated to speak. I've had it moved and seconded. Single recommendation. And a show of hands to all those in favour. Thank you very much. That's carried. Thank you very much. Thanks, Lynn, for that. Thank you very much. Thank you. Moving on, item three, the review of the market fees and charges. And I'll hand you over to Lisa, who's going to introduce this report. Thank you, Chairman. Yes, members, this report seeks an amendment to the fees and charges previously agreed for the market. Members will be aware that the council has in place a corporate fees, charges and concessions document. And as is good practice, this was reviewed, which included a robust exercise involving team managers and the finance business partners. These corporate fees and charges are set by full council, but they are subject to continuous monitoring throughout the year. At the full council meeting in March this year, a revised fee for market stalls was approved and these fees were put in place from the 30th of March this year. The market is subject to a comprehensive review and there is an established markets working group which considers ways of developing the markets offer further within the town. Currently there is a discount for market traders who bring more than 25 stalls to the market which means they pay £7.50 per stall. And this report, members, is seeking two things. Firstly, acknowledgement from this committee of the resolution of full council on the 4th of March 2024 to approve the fees and charges presented at that time. And secondly, approval to revise the concession and approve the revised fee of £7.50 where market traders bring 20 or more stalls. So obviously, members, that's a reduction in five stalls to enable the traders to get the concession. And I'm happy to take any questions. Thank you.

Thanks, Lisa. So I've got a couple of speakers. I have a question. Yes, thank you. Yeah, you've answered my first question, Lisa, in your introduction, so thanks for that. Reading the paper, it makes clear reference to the antiques market in Gainsborough and it reads that this proposal is, you know, to support them. And it's clear that the market has been pulled out and that market's been cancelled. Are we able to get any clarification on that and what that means to this paper or anything? I have no knowledge at all of that, Councillor Bowles, so I can't give you any answer in respect of that. Thank you. Just in terms of clarity, it makes no difference anyway. It's not down to one specific organisation. It's across the board. My understanding is these fees and charges relate to the markets across the board. And as I've said, I've got no knowledge or awareness of what you're referring to. Thank you. Councillor Bunny. Thank you, Chair. I was just really wanting to say that clearly the purpose of this is to bring larger groups if they want to into the marketplace, which is something that we clearly want to do to encourage the footfall in the town and so on. And I think, actually, as we have seen with the antiques market, to a large extent that has happened. It will be a sadness if it's not going to continue. So, therefore, I would think this is a good move. We've obviously discussed it at council already, so I would be very clear and happy to propose the paper. Thanks for that. Councillor Fleeroy. Yes, I'm quite happy to second the paper. Obviously, Gainsborough is the focal point for this in that it's the discount for the number of stalls. We do have a market at Market Raisin, but I don't believe that would stretch into this criteria because I don't believe it's large enough. So I don't know, longer term there might be a view to expand the Market Raisin market to hopefully build that. Going back again through the years, markets used to be a wonderful place for commodities to exchange fresh produce particularly. Albeit now we have supermarkets and large sheds and refrigeration. I think the way of trading has changed quite dramatically in the world. But we should still allow the smaller operator the opportunity to get out there and market the produce. And certainly, okay, it could well be fresher from the market. But if I look at it from another angle, a lot of the commercial, the large commercial enterprises produce food. And if you go to Morrison's, you have Market Street or whatever. But on the market, there is an opportunity for organic growers and that type of person to bring their fresher non-chemicalised products to the market. So I think that we should give everybody as good an opportunity to market quality merchandise and hopefully build the market given a period of time. Certainly with regard to antiques, I think you have a major issue ongoing in that Hemswell is renowned for being the antiques centre for the area. Certainly you will get a certain level of stalls coming into an antiques market in Gainsborough. But I think you need the fair weather to go with it because people will not generally stand around and browse outside in the cold. I think they would rather go to somewhere else. Anyway, I have seconded the paper. Just on the point of order, please, Chairman, I am very grateful that my colleague here has mentioned Market Raisin Market, could well mention Case to Market as well. They are actually run by their town councils and it is the town council who fixed the fees and this paper would have no effect on there. But we would clearly take in your advice if we were looking when we do our structuring of greater numbers. Thanks for that. So straightforward report. I have only proposed and seconded. Sorry, Councillor Rowan, do you want to come in? Just to add a little bit more background to this, I think you will know that we this year have set up like a market development group to really try and put some support and a little bit more strategy and thinking around what we are doing in the markets. And that focus has largely been on Gainsborough. We have been very keen to support the antiques market and I think largely the people that have visited the market have really enjoyed it. And there is no question about the fact that it has actually added a significant increase in footfall to the marketplace. Some of the traders that are the existing traders, and there is only a couple of them that are down there, are reporting big increases in takings for having the antique market there. Having said that, it is no doubt that the footfall is not as high as it could be and building that up is going to require efforts and support over a long period of time. There are all sorts of pressures down in the marketplace that the antique traders have had to experience in the last few weeks and we are still trying very hard to work through those with them. They haven't fully confirmed that they are leaving, although they have posted some stuff on social media. But whether or not they will change their mind, they have certainly had the same few traders coming each week that people are getting to know. And I sincerely hope that they don't go, but at the moment they have had a few upsets that are pushing them in that direction. But what they have done is very much valued. We think it has been popular. There are a lot of challenges. We have had Lincoln Indoor Market launching itself this week. We have got Redford completely dropping their prices and things, which is the competition, isn't it? But I think the feeling down there has been much improved and I am certainly grateful for what the guys have done there and hope that they can sort of hang on in there. And this paper really is about tweaking what we were doing to make sure that we give them as much support as we can. Going forward, we might consider whether it needs to be more than this or not, but at the moment this is a short adjustment to what we are trying to do in support of the traders that we are trying to get into the marketplace. And I support the paper. Okay, thanks for that. So, any more speakers? No. We have had it proposed, seconded. Can I have a show of hands in favour? Thank you, that is carried. Thank you very much. Item 4 is the amendments to the approved committee timetable, change of the meeting date, Core Policy and Resources Committee, July 2024, and I will hand you over to Katie. Thank you, Chairman. Fairly self-explanatory report. This report does ask members to change the date of the CP&R committee. Because this is a date in the scheduled timetable, it does require committee approval. So, the alternative date is there. I have nothing further to add, Chairman. Okay, Councillor Sneh. Can I ask for the reason behind the change? I have previously been informed that the committee timetable is fixed. And any changes impacts the timelines, committee business, and ultimately affects the smooth running of the council. So, who has the authority to change these dates, as we currently have a substitution policy that is working quite well? I would refer you to the report which says availability. Who has the power to change these dates? Only you as a committee, hence it is here. It is a request to move it. It says in the report it is due to availability. But like I say, nobody has the power to move these other than committee, hence it is here. It is worth noting though that this is an extra committee date which dropped in previous, it wasn't previous in the calendar. It dropped and then it appeared in the date, the 18th appeared in the calendar. Is that because we added an extra meeting in the spirit year? I don't wish to, this meeting was in the timetable that was approved as referred to in the report. It was in that timetable. If it wasn't, we wouldn't need to come here. So, a lot to describe it. It has been in since the committee approved the timetable in February. Okay. Councillor Spadafore. Thank you, Chairman. Katie, you may not be able to answer this. In terms of availability, is that officer or member availability? I'm covering the committee. It's availability. Thank you. It's worth noting though, prior to, in our pre-group meeting tonight, that certain members said that it wasn't in their calendars when looked. So. Chairman, I don't wish to lay the point. It was in the report that was agreed by committee in February or March. When we get to the new civic year, we then say, we send it out in March and say CP&R approved this. We then send it again out in annual council. But the report is referred to, the date was there, but we are where we are. Okay. Councillor Bowles. Yeah, if this is the process, which is fine, can we ensure that all chairs are getting the same advice? Because I've previously asked to move a committee date for availability reasons and was told it wasn't possible. And there was no further discussion, it just wasn't possible. So if this is the process, can we ensure every committee and every chair gets the same advice? And my apologies to you, Councillor Bowles, because absolutely they shouldn't be moved. We are required by the 72 Act to produce a schedule of meetings. And we do that in February or March. We have powers to add meetings in and cancel meetings out with consultation with the chairman. But that approved schedule is the only way of meeting the requirements of the Act to have an approved timetable. So anything in that timetable, yes, it can be moved, Councillor Bowles, so I apologise if you've had the wrong advice. But what it does need is this committee's approval to do that. So how the Head of Paid Service might have some delegations to cancel or to add an extra one in, he has no delegation to alter a meeting. So I apologise if - but it does sometimes - if there is not a CPR opportunity to change that date, so depending on when that request comes in, then it might have been - well, there is no opportunity to move it. But every date can be moved, but it needs to come through this process if it's in the agreed timetable. I will take that comment on board. We've missed that, Katie, and we've done it numerous times, let's face it, over the years. This is not something that's much crapped in. It's new tonight. We've done it umpteen times over the last ten years. Councillor Fleetwood. Interestingly, the following paper is the work plan. And listed on the 18th of July date to be confirmed is six reports by six different officers. So I'm wondering if it's just one officer that is not available, perhaps that report could be deferred to a future meeting, but I can't believe that all six officers are not available for the next meeting. Can anybody comment on that for me? I don't know what happened here because obviously some Councillors think that it was clear the meeting was on this date, but there's several of us that it wasn't on our calendars. And I don't know why that was. This meeting was put in, we were told it was put in late for whatever reason because we had to put an extra meeting in. So I think we will look into it. Like the Chairman said, there were numerous times last year where we decided we weren't going to have full Council meetings or whatever for various reasons. And I think, yeah, we want to do this as little as possible, but it looks as though we're going to be, we've put it forward to do it tonight and we should make sure that whatever is on the timetable is well on members' timetables and officers' timetables well in advance. There was some sort of hiccup on this occasion though, which we need to look at. So coming back, I don't know whose availability it is that isn't available, but at the last full Council meeting we've now included Councillor Swift as a Vice Chairman. So we now, we have the luxury of having a Chairman and two Vice Chairmen for the committee. So if by chance it was one or other of the Chairmen or the Vice Chairmen that wasn't available, Councillor Swift could actually chair that meeting or indeed if that meeting was to go ahead and all three Chairmen, Vice Chairmen were not available, I'm sure that there would be an option within the meeting to appoint a member from the committee to chair that meeting. So I'm just trying to get down to basics. We have six officers, we have a Chairman, we have two Vice Chairmen, and providing the meeting's core, there's no reason why it shouldn't go ahead, surely? Well, we'll take your point. The request came from the administration group to move it forward a week and that's for various reasons and that's why the papers come this evening. So the request is quite simple, we've done it numerous times in the past, it's nothing new, like I said, we bring it back and bring it forward one week. So if I can come back again then. So okay, if it's a request from a member perspective, I assume that all six officers have been checked to see if their availability is available for whatever date and that they might be available on that evening, because I'm just curious to know where we're going with this. I can confirm, Councillor Fleetwood, because this paper was requested, yes, we have not to pre-empt this decision, but of course, as members have said, there is a training making decisions. Those conversations have been had, from an officer point of view, it is doable. Ultimately, it is a member decision and it is here for you to vote on or not. But yes, we can accommodate, we've started those enquiries. Okay, Chancellor Smith. Thank you, Chair. Based on the information that I have before me and what I have been told, personally, Chairman, I believe the date should stay as it is and we should stay as we are and I'm making that a proposal, thank you. Okay. Councillor Sneh is just holding up the diary, but that's fine if you use the diary. We use an online diary, it was not in our diary. Councillor Bunny doesn't have it in his, we didn't have it in ours either and other people did. So whatever, there's been some sort of error, I accept that, this is not ideal to be doing this, but we've requested it and I think the administration has requested it moved to a date that we've got all sorts of things going on from members and from officers and it needs to be put on a more convenient date. Okay. So I'm going to move it from the Chair, I'm looking for a seconder. So can I second Councillor Smith's proposal that we stay as we are? You can't have an amendment that's a direct negative you would vote against because if this is not accepted, the substantive position is the meeting date is set. Okay, so I've moved it from the Chair. Can I have a seconder? Councillor Bunny. Thank you. So can I have a show of hands, all those in favour? Moving the document, yeah, moving the date. Thank you. And all against? One, two, three, four, five. Thank you. That's lost. Okay. So just to make it clear, the date of the next meeting is the 18th of July. Thank you very much. Thank you. Item five, the committee work plan. I'll hand you over to Katie. No comments, Chairman. I was going to say if we agree to move the date, we'll make the - but no comments. And again, you know, members can speak to the Chair if there's items they want to bring forward. As we know, work plans do need a little bit of titivating here and there, but it is for noting. Thank you. Okay. Thanks for that. That's for noting. Any comments? Okay. Thank you very much. We'll move on. Item seven, exclusion of the press. We now seek to resolve that under the section 100A4 of the Local Government Act 1972, the public and the press are excluded from the meeting for the following item of business on the grounds that they involve the likely disclosure of the exempt information as defined in the paragraph three of part one of schedule 12A of the Act. Can I have a proposal, please? Councillor Burley, thank you. And seconder? Thank you, Councillor Smith. All those in favour? Thank you.