Transcript

use chat to get through to our staff. And if we do have to pause for the webcast we will. So we will start the meeting. And Councillors on governance, just to remind you that we'll start at 10.30 with the conclusion of cabinet whichever is the latest. And the meeting will be held here. So I'm now on to agenda item one which is to seek cabinet's agreement in signing the records of the meeting held on the 16th of April as a true record. Thank you. Disclosure of personal interests. Are there any interests under the code of conduct that require to be declared and if so indicate the nature? None, thank you. Urgent items, I understand. No urgent items? Thank you. We now have to conduct the call over and we intended calling agenda item five and six. Nothing else that anyone wants? You can have eight, it's going to be, it's going to be discussed again at, oh no sorry, eight isn't going to council so we'll call it if you want to. Okay. So in that case we recommend the waste and minerals plan is adopted and published and we recommend that to council.

• Great.
• Thank you.
• So we now come to agenda item five which is the council monitoring quarter four, 23-24 year end and I invite Councillor Bennett to introduce please.
• Thank you leader, good morning everyone. The report for the last quarter of 23-24 confirms the challenging financial position that was presented at quarter three and to some extent all through the year. The year saw overspends across children's and adult social care as the cost pressures for service placements continue to increase reflecting the complexity of need but also the limited provider market to meet these needs. The impact of inflation continued to be felt across all services, nevertheless it's pleasing to report that 37 of the 58 plan targets were achieved last year, seven will be reported in the first quarter of 24-25. Of course full details of each of these is contained within the report. Financially the revenue out turn was overspent by 10.5 million for service departments, the overall overspend was 30 million, that was from children's services, home school transport and adult social care, CET and business services and governance underspent by 2.3 million. So corporate budgets delivered a total underspend of 19.6 million from treasury management, contingencies, revenue contribution to the capital program and business rates and other grants. The overall deficit therefore was 10.5 million has been mitigated by the use of one of funding, seven million from residual COVID grant funding, two million from council tax collection fund, that's the surplus of that and one and a half million from the financial management reserve. The capital out turn saw an expenditure for the year of 77.5 million against an approved budget of 85.9 million and the slippage reflecting the complexity of delivery across a number of project areas which are all set out in the report. Finally treasury management performance I'm pleased to say shows overall return on investments 5.39% against a benchmark of 5.2%, thank you chair.
• Thank you, Becky.
• Thank you, I hope that the comprehensive review of the performance, the funding and the risk at the end of the financial year 23, 24 is helpful and clear. Paragraph four of the covering report draws out some of the really substantial areas of progress that we've made as well as some areas of challenge and I think as Councillor Bennett has said it's really important to understand that this show describes the really key platforms and some of the issues that as we go into the current year and into planning future years as related in the next item in the agenda stated for council that it is really important that we understand where we start the year as well as where we've been, thank you.
• Thank you, any comments or questions? Councillor Shodworth.
• He's not here.
• Sorry, Councillor Shodworth, sorry, he's on the switch.
• It seems like he's a lot from me, he's much older than me. Just a few comments on this, I'm under the risk of repeating myself but then I've done that before so it's nothing new.
• I'm finding it difficult to hear, could you, thank you. Are you on?
• Is it on? Is it on? Okay. In these reports in the state of the county we all know we're heading for a giant black hole, we know that there's a big gap between what we need to spend in the next few years and what we're actually going to have available so I don't think that's a point of dispute. It's obviously getting worse because when we were talking yesterday in the state of the county we get this phrase core offer coming up again and again which we haven't heard for the last two or three years but it's back on the agenda. So we're also wondering whether or not we are actually meeting our statutory obligations. I'm sure we are, I'm sure we haven't got to that but the point is that we have got back down to discussing whether or not we have the funds to meet our statutory obligations. Our other major problem that we have now, we're an authority that we understand this year or coming year is going to spend a billion pounds which is a vast sum of money as I respect most people realise but we're not allowed to budget for more than one year accurately at a time because the government will not do what it said it would do which is let us have three years to give three years leeway for us to look forward. I don't see how you can run an authority this size properly without having that kind of impetus from the government.
• Mind you I suppose the country is being run in much of the same way but I don't think we need to discuss that kind of thing. I'm just appalled, it's not so much where we are, it's the inability of local authorities up and down the country, many, many hundreds now are actually really, really struggling. So you've been the inability of us to influence central government, especially my parties, you know there's probably a slight disadvantage there because we don't have much representation in central government yet but it does seem to me to be very strange that I know that everybody's tried really, really hard to lobby, I don't see there's any lack of effort there but there seems to be, whenever we're lobbying there does seem to be a big gap coming from the other side, we never seem to get very much out of it, if you disagree with me please, please let me know, but that's my problem. My problem is I said this last month or two months ago, I probably said it four months ago, it's not getting any better. So I'll leave it there I think, thank you very much.
• Thank you, I'll just answer your first point and this is about looking forward, not looking back. In as much as this is telling us what we spent, we've actually set the budget for this year if you remember and we all have collectively agreed to take 14.3 million pounds out of our reserves and we've lobbied government on those lines and will continue to do so. I think we can all agree that whilst we got a small amount out of government at the last minute, it wasn't enough and we do need the long term settlement that you're talking about. And so we will continue in that vein, whoever the government is post July 5th and hopefully the enthusiasm from yourselves will still be there for us collectively to lobby because individually, we're going nowhere. It's collectively as a County Council, we have a much stronger voice. So please, hopefully that will still be there. Councillor Field.
• Thank you. I am not surprisingly concerned and disappointed about the number of reds in children's services, particularly where it relates to attainment and also the direction of travel in some of the greens, which is not as promising as we might have hoped. I'm just wondering, this is a genuine wonder, how much of that is still a hangover from COVID because we know that children's mental health has been affected hugely by the pandemic and we know that attendance at school isn't necessarily as good as we would hope for those reasons and others. And so I do think that it is very concerning that some of these children aren't attaining the levels you wanted and that so many are not in education, employment or training, which I know has been a long-standing problem on this Council for many years. I'd be interested to hear the lead members' comments. Thank you.
• Thank you. Any other comments or questions? I'm trying to put my hand up.
• Sorry, I'll come back to you. I'm just looking on the above. Councillor Stanley, I'll check mine.
• Yeah, I was just going to say, I share your concerns. I mean, we started off the year on green and we went kind of amber and red. To answer, well, I can't fully answer your question about the hangover from the pandemic, but I think it is intuitively rather than factually. And the attendance must have an effect on children's education, 'cause we know that is and the numbers are still kind of too high. I mean, it does vary across the county. There are some areas where the numbers are poor. If you took those out, you know, there are good schools and we're working closely with schools. As I've said many times over the years, it's a school med system. We can only, in many cases, influence, but we do influence through the primary school board. But it is a concern when it's going in that direction and they all turn that red. I was disappointed. I think we'll just say that.
• Thank you.
• Thank you, and apologies for appearing rude. I had half my screen blocked out and I was looking on the screen here to see if there were any members online that wanted to speak. Nobody is indicated. So, Becky, do you want to just respond?
• I don't think there were any questions that haven't been answered. Unless, Colin, you had anything to add on the COVID impact.
• Councillor Bennett, do you want to sum up?
• Thank you very much. I mean, in a brief summary of a brief discussion, which I'm sure we'll take up at council, but we've identified, again, the complexities and range of demand in a very uncertain, shifting environment. But we have, over the years, demonstrated as an authority how we can manage our finances extraordinarily well. And we continue to do that. The report sets out the extraordinary work that officers have achieved in very difficult circumstances. But eventually, we just reach a point where national decisions have to be made about what is actually expected of local authorities. I mean, this is being debated. Local government association, county council's network, districts and boroughs. Eventually, someone has to make a decision and say this is where responsibility starts and this is where it ends. Thank you. Your cabinet's asked to note the report.
• Have you noted? Thank you very much. Thank you, so we go on to agenda item six, which is reconciling policy and performance resources, state and county. And in introducing this, I'd just like to thank those of you that made the full council forum yesterday and I hope you agree with me that it was a very good, well-presented session. What it clearly lays out is just how much work's been going on and continues on a daily basis throughout the county. I think there's not one part of the organization that isn't aware of the pressures that we're under and looking to resolve. I think we have a very clear plan about how we can pull this together. And I think yesterday's introduction of that was a very good start, so I'm sure you'd all like to join with me in thanking our staff for where we've gone so far. So what does it do? It highlights that actually, as Kansas wanted to say earlier, the task ahead of us is enormous. And currently, we're looking at a gap that I don't think any of us sitting here at the moment can understand where we're gonna fill it from. But collectively, again, it's another plea. If there's something that's missing, if there's something we've missed, please come forward with it. Because all of us thinking and all of us working will likely to come out with a better solution. So, Becky, I'll hand over to you, please.
• Thank you, and this is a familiar stage of the annual cycle as we formally commence our business planning for 25, 26 and beyond. I'm really conscious that it is a really comprehensive report, but I hope it's clear and I hope that it's useful, not just in terms of now, but a point of reference during the year as it pulls together the evidence base about this county, the policy context in which we're working, the finances and performance. And as I said, I think it's really important to read it, read the critical report alongside it. We will bring future updates, particularly in terms of the policy context when we have a new government in the autumn, but I think it's really important that we continue with the work that we're doing because time will be of the essence. The report highlights some really key fundamental issues that this authority and our partners, both locally and nationally, need to be relentlessly focused on in future months. I would just also draw your attention to the three changes that we're proposing to make to our delivery outcomes. It's important we get those right because then that's where clear what it is that we're trying to achieve. That's a paragraph four. And also just draw your attention to the draft productivity plan, which is obviously the new requirement. We think it's a useful vehicle just to demonstrate the quality of what we do, but also to flag to the incoming government some of the areas that they could focus on usefully as we try and resolve some of these challenges, as well as indicating the next steps that we and the partners take, thank you.
• Thank you, Councillor Tuck, and welcome back.
• Thank you, it's good to be back. This has been said, it's part of the normal cycle of events in the state of the county now. But this year, due to the decision of the Prime Minister, it feels almost at the wrong time. So it's right that we look at state of the county. It might be worth reviewing it again in the autumn. I leave that to you. We know that we have immense pressures in East Sussex. Some of them are particular to the county, and some of them are more national. For example, we know that 26% of our population are over the age of 65 compared to the national average of 19%. That puts immense pressure on our adult social care. We know that our long-term, we have an 8.8% increase in those who need long-term care. And that's year on year. So those pressures are not just growing slightly, they're growing exponentially. As young people with need for special education, that's also increased dramatically. And the impact of all those issues is that in 2023, 24, we had a 10.5 million pounds overspend. In 24, 25, that's projected to be a deficit of 14.3 million. And when we look at the midterm, and 27, 28, that deficit, if nothing else will happen, will be an enormous 83.6 million pounds. I think we all understand and agree that that's not sustainable. We're not alone. Public Finance Magazine, only earlier this week, its headline was hundreds of councils at risk of financial failure if local government is not taken seriously. And so with 80% of our expenditure being raised by council tax, if I were able to speak to any potential incoming prime minister who may think that the solution to this is simply to take the cap off of council tax increases, and that means the problem will go away, I'd say that's not what is needed. What is needed is central government funding for the essential services and responsibilities that national government place upon local government. That's the only way this is going to be resolved. So going forward, we know that in just a few days' time, there'll be a general election. We know there'll be a new government. We don't know what color, but we know that there'll be a new government as a result of that. We know that we will have new MPs if for no other reason that not all of the existing MPs are standing for re-election. And so one of the things I would ask, Chair, is that we seek an early meeting with our East Sussex MPs once elected before they get lots of other things on their plate so that we can emphasize the importance of the work that we do here. Lobbying, we commit ourselves to continuing to lobby with you. We commit ourselves to working with you to try and find ways of improving our financial performance and meeting our obligations within the constrained financial envelope we have. But the sooner we can get to those new members of parliament and emphasize to the government the importance of the services we provide, the better.
• I agree with almost everything you've said, which is much, much better.
• Thank you, Chair. Thanks once again for the document. It's really comprehensive. And as Becky said at the meeting, it's something you can look back on all year. And she did also mention at the meeting that somebody has it read to them. And I am, I will admit, I use a tool to have it read to me. And it's incredibly useful to get through some dense documents like that. But yeah, really helpful. And the briefing was really helpful as well. I'd like to commend you on your completion of the productivity document, which was a highly political, is a political tool, but you managed to de-politicize it. So congratulations on that. I'm looking forward, I'm looking forward to a great many things at the moment, but in the context of this meeting, I'm looking forward to the full council and hearing the strategic view of the cabinet members on how they're gonna take the State of the County forward next year. And I'm sure you're looking forward to hearing our feedback. And finally, just on when we've got a new set of MPs, I'm sure that some of us will be able to smooth that out so we can get a meeting very quickly and move things forward. Thank you, Chair.
• Really useful. We do need to meet. And I just remind you of one thing that Councilor Tuck said about whether we review it post-election or after summer. This process never stops. It starts now. This is the starting point. This is the gun. So we will continue to evolve. And it always has been the same because whichever government, we very rarely get our final settlement before Christmas Eve, and we work through to that. But thank you for the rest of that. I'm currently not seeing any other hands. Oh, sorry, I've got Councilor Philip Lund online. Philip.
• Thank you, Chairman. Listening to what Councilor Tuck said, you know, he was speaking factually, and he could have said that that is the situation that we're facing. And I think given that we have a general election coming as well, it's an appropriate time to remember that our officer team perennially is looking at everything for the best way to deploy resources, the best way to allocate money. It's a never ending process. This council is very diligent. There are hard times for everybody. And I think every member in this chamber beyond the general election would agree that, you know, we've all got to look at everything. And I'm sure the officer team will be one step ahead of us in that event. I just wanted to say that, Chairman. Thank you.
• Thank you, Philip. I'll go to Councilor Xing and then Councilor Daniel.
• Thank you, yeah. I just want to ask, I think since the COVID, now our offices are employed. How, between now, what is the difference of working in office? I mean, coming in the office or mobile home. So in that, because I saw the empty office space down there, so what we are going to do that. And also, I think years back, we're looking for the renew or the contract or lease in St. Mary and St. Mark's in Eastport. Do we settle those one? Are we in a good position for that? Yeah, I think there's a big cost as well. Thank you.
• I won't go into detail, but if you remember, both were discussed at the last meeting, but we'll give you an update now, I'm sure. Councilor Daniel.
• Yeah, thank you, Chair. Couple of little minor points on the presentation for Becky to think about for the future. One is the deprivation information on 163. I do find, you know, comparing Wheelden with a similar deprivation seven-ups is a bit reasonable, really. The deprivation figures seem to assume, unless you're the number one least deprived, everything else is deprived. So I'm sorry, I do think that needs a little bit of rewriting that and put it into context. The other little bit, which was like that, was housing. Housing affordability does talk about averages across East Sussex, but I think it is noticeable that in Hastings and the set of Hastings where I represent housing costs are lower. Why is that significant? It's significant because we're able to attract teachers and other professionals, many of whom are now moving over from Brighton and London and other places like Wheelden, I suppose, where those places are higher. It'd be good to have that, have the attitude with the fact that there are differences in terms of housing costs. And the next bit is, which you won't agree with me, Chair, is this whole thing reads like an obituary of the Tory government. You know, they've driven us into the ground financially for years and years and years, 14 years, and they've adopted a scorched earth policy to try and make sure that an incoming government, which you're surely gonna have over labour persuasion, doesn't have the resources easily to kind of bend bridges. And I hope you remember these times when you were in opposition, Chair, with you and your colleagues, because really we hope for a better place, but the finance is now the country and the local government have been driven almost into the dust. And let's see what happens on July the 4th. Thank you, Chair.
• Thank you. And on that point, I hope we keep this recording because should the unfortunate thing of a Labour government happen, I will be holding it up for you in two years time to show you just how much progress you've made, Councillor Daniel. So whilst not wishing to get political, we tried to avoid it this morning. Are there any other comments or questions that anybody wants to raise? Becky, is there anything in there that you need to answer?
• Just to say, Councillor Sheehan, we can do you a more detailed brief in terms of the office accommodation, but we have been working really hard, A, to make sure that people are working in the place in which they do their work most effectively, but that includes people having a strong sense of ownership of this authority, that people are getting the training opportunities that we're leading and we're not losing the opportunity for people to work across the authority. We have made really strong progress in terms of reducing the estate that we have, both in Hastings and in Eastbourne, and indeed, we're well underway looking at the arrangements here in Lewes. So really happy to provide you with some more detail of that. The thing that I would just say is it's really important to remember that this authority provides over 350 services, so, and actually the vast majority of our staff have never worked in an office building and never will do, because actually they're out in other places. They're in people's homes, they're in businesses, they're in libraries, they're out inspecting people. So it's very much a subset when we think about the people who have ever worked in offices, and we've got a strong story which we are still working on that we can share with you.
• Thank you. Thank you. With that in mind, I'll move to the recommendations before us, and I'd just like to add an addition to a paragraph, and it can either be a number nine or we can put it under eight, and that is to request officers bring back a report to the July cabinet meeting, setting out proposals for an additional one million pounds to be added to the current highway patching programme for 24, 25, including details of how this could be funded from the capital programme without increasing the overall cost of the programme. We all recognise just how important this patching programme is and the effect that it's had, and we feel that it would be worse investigating the possibilities. So with that addition, are members happy to agree the recommendation before you?
• Agree.
• Thank you very much. We now come to, I'm sorry, I've just got to scroll down past the next one. Agenda item eight, which is procurement of the charge point operator to deliver and operate and manage the street electric vehicle charge points. Councillor Downing, do you want to introduce, and then I'll go to the report?
• Thank you. With the government's commitment to expand the sale of diesel and petrol vehicles from 2035, which means the electric vehicles will be the main alternative, the aim of the EV on-street charge point project is to deliver a network of charge points to support on-street parking, more specifically to support residents who do not have access to off-street parking. The council is successful in securing 4.441 million from the local electric vehicle infrastructure levy, together with a further 587,000 capability revenue funding to support the resources required to deliver the project. This report is seeking approval to proceed with procuring a charge point operator through a concession agreement using the Crown Commercial Services Framework.
• Thank you, Rupert. Nothing to add? Okay, I'll go Councillor Field, then Councillor Swann.
• Thank you very much. First of all, I would like to say that I really welcome this report. I'd have welcomed it even more fulsome a couple of years earlier, but nevermind, we're here, and I think the concession going forward from reading the report is the way forward. I mean, aren't there concerns about electric cars, and I think we concern ourselves particularly about the harm caused to the environment, and indeed the young people who mine the minerals which are essential for the batteries, and indeed the batteries in our mobile phones. Not withstanding that, though, the key has got to be, I believe, to get emissions down, which I think this will do. Slightly concerned to read that it's really important to get emissions down in urban areas, which of course it is. It is also very important to get emissions down in village centres, anti-historic high streets, and everywhere else that people walk. In fact, I think probably more people walk down historic high streets than walk along polluted roads such as, for example, the Delaware Road in Bexhill. So I do think that needs to be added in, that we want to get emissions down everywhere where there are people walking. I'm slightly concerned, and this has bothered me for a long time, that the points are going where people haven't got private drives to park their electric cars in. Completely understand that. People who live in those houses parking the road, and although the road isn't theirs, many people believe that the space outside their house is theirs to park in. So when it's got an electric charging point in, and somebody else has decided to park outside of their house in their space and charge their car for a long time, I'm slightly concerned that a certain amount of unrest might ensue, because clearly the space on the road is limited and where do these people go is a concern. And I would also like to know what exactly is meant by passive infrastructure. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Just on the ownership of land, if you could tell the six people that park outside my house every night, that'd be very helpful. Councillor Staunsburn. I have double yellow line outside my house, which is a disadvantage. Yeah, I welcome this, what's happening here in East Sussex and nationally, particularly in Eastbourne where we're gonna get, it says 872 charging points, which would be brilliant. My point is only a small, only sounds like a small one, but every so often I have to go somewhere else other than my own house to charge my car. And often, often I have difficulty, because it's quite a complex process, especially when you're standing on a street corner somewhere these days trying to reach your mobile phone under strong sunlight. And what you really need at that moment is you need the support of the customer services for the company that's supposed to be supplying you with electricity. So when we go through this process, can we plead my plea is for somebody to have regard for the strength of the customer services that have been provided. One, for example, one called Podpoint. I tried to phone them. They only respond during office hours, which is great, isn't it? Because nine times out of 10, you're not calling them during office hours. So anyway, that's my little point also. Thank you very much.
• Restrict your traveling, that's it. Any other? Councilor Daniel, I've just spotted you again.
• How nice. How lucky you are. Okay, just a small point really. I mean, obviously I work when he moves forward in this direction. I'll be interested to know how they're gonna deal with debt and servant housing. But just a thing that occurs to me is that, for example, if you're gonna put charging facilities in the country, all down the buildings, maybe some of the land posts if they're not to be back in the payment. Where are the costs for the electricity gonna come from? Because nothing is free. And it would be, this has obviously got budgetary implications above and beyond. And that will go on for quite a long time. So it's just a question of, is that gonna be addressed somehow? Are we gonna have the information on how that cost is going to be settled?
• I'll ask the director. On your point about nothing being free. It didn't seem like that when I read the manifesto about some people, but anyway.
• Rupert.
• Thank you.
• So I was just gonna say, you could put a bet on that one, I think. (coughs)
• Thank you, chairman. So I take Councillor Fia's point about emissions across the whole area. I think the intent was just the urban areas tend to be more densely trafficked. But what he says, absolutely right, we'll ensure that that is incorporated. In relation to charging across pavements and the like, so where people don't have off-street parking, we were expecting some guidance from the Department of Transport. I think it was about to land and then the election got called and so it stalled. And I think once that guidance comes out, we'll be able to give clarity to residents about how they might wish to charge a vehicle where they don't have off-street parking. Passive infrastructure is basically stuff that's non-electronic or electrical. So it's things like the ducting, the trenching, those kinds of things. And then, of Councillor Daniel's point of, Councillor Shuttle. (mumbles) The sort of communications aspect around whoever it is we ultimately contract with. You know, I expect a sound communications plan that sits with them to help consumers. And then Councillor Daniel's point about who pays. Well, consumer pays for charging. So if Councillor Daniel had an electric vehicle, he would be charged an amount per kilowatt hour to charge his vehicle. And what we are doing is ensuring that that is benchmarked. So we work with the Office of Zero Emission Vehicles to make sure there isn't any sort of excess profiteering, if that makes sense.
• Thank you. Sorry, Councillor Sringo, I didn't see you. (mumbles)
• This report is just dedicated to the local authority to seeking for a contract. When we contact, do we have more information after that? How are we going to do in our suite or what? Do we have more (mumbles)
• Thank you.
• So there's some detail in the paper and the appendices. We've identified 280, initially identified 280 sites that would benefit from three twin charge points per location. As we enter into the contract, contractor will determine whether or not those sites are viable. And whether indeed there are more sites that need to come forward. We also recognize that there will need to be a, as well as some rapid charges, and also there need to be some slow charges and some fast charges to compliment where you can't get the power supply in to produce, to provide rapid charging. So as we go down those contract arrangements, you'll get sites of where those locations are as a contractor checks it against those initial 281 sites that we've identified.
• My concern is earlier is how much the rate electricity we're going to pay or the general public to pay when charging use that charger. What I'm thinking of in some street and outside my house, for example, and if somebody park, I have my own charger, I can use it. But if in like similar, if that street have private house have their own charges and we are going to install some charge there, if the charge rate, the rate of the electricity is the same equally, we can buy from our supplier and with them. And that is no conflict of interest. If somebody park outside my house, I can't charge. I can charge anyone in there. I don't lose pay higher price. So in that we'll be less of a conflict. That's why I'm trying to think if that will be consistent. Thank you.
• So I think, I mean, if you're charging at home, then the cost of you charging at home will be through your normal electricity tariff. If you're charging via a third party, inevitably there will be a cost, an on cost. So it will be more expensive to charge if you're using a commercial charge point. And then the cost will vary depending on whether it's a rapid charger or a slow charger. Basically you're throwing more power down there. And in some locations, you just won't be able to support rapid charges because the infrastructure isn't there and the electricity supply basically isn't there to support it. The tests and checks about whether a tariff is appropriate. There's a benchmarking process that goes with it. And the other thing to point out for us is by entering into a concession type arrangement, it is just the grant funding that we're using to support the provision of infrastructure. It is for the private sector to determine, well, to provide the balance, which we estimate is gonna be about six million pounds to put the infrastructure in. There is also, because there is an opportunity to generate revenues, there is also a revenue share for the local authority. It's not massive, but over the 15 year contract life, we estimate amounts of about two and a half million.
• If you've got detailed questions, perhaps you can take it with Rupert outside. It is an interesting subject that we could spend hours on, but I don't think it'll change the recommendation that we have before us, if that's okay. Thank you. We're asked to agree in the report, Councillors? Thank you. Then to agree which items are reported to County Council, I understand that item five, six, and seven need to go to County Council, so we'll do that. With that, Councillors, thank you, and thank you for your attendance this morning, and I'll close this meeting. Those on governance will continue once the floor is clear.