Transcript

Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to the Licensing Committee subcommittee. My name is Julia Judd, and I'm chairing for today. I would like to introduce my other fellow members, and then we'll go around the offices, and then I will give you a very brief pre-see of how the meeting will run. Thank you. Thank you. I'm Patrick Coleman. I'm the Councillor for the Stratton Ward in Cirencester. And I'm Michael Van, Councillor for Fairford North. My name's Kevin Dunford. I'm the Licensing Officer for the Cotswold District. Good afternoon. I'm Mari Barnes. I'm the lawyer for the Council. Hi, I'm a Prellage Governance Officer. Good afternoon. Kayla Parris, Senior Democratic Services Officer, supporting the meeting today. Thank you. So today we are looking at a determination for an application for a street trading consent in Borton Vale Ward to be made by Frederick Drakobs for the Old Mill Lane at Lower Slaughter. I hope that you have papers so that you can refer to some of the papers that will come up in this meeting. And we will be going through it. Everybody will have an opportunity to talk about, to present to the committee. It's quite an informal meeting this. Although we are televised, it is webcast, it is quite an informal meeting in comparison to standard Council meetings. This is a public meeting. As you can see, there are members of the public here and we will withdraw, the committee will withdraw to make their decision once everybody has had a chance to say everything that they need to say. What I will do first is ask the officer to introduce the application and give us some background on that. The members and myself can then ask the officer questions and other people and then the applicants first then may ask relevant questions and then members of the public can ask questions. Is that correct? Once all representations and questions have been addressed and you have exhausted what you would like to say, we will then withdraw, because I think there is more of us. We will withdraw to make our decision, leave you here in the Council and then we will run through our decision. Any questions? Thank you. Kevin, would you like to present the application? Sorry, going back to the agenda. We have apologies from Councillor Fowles, Councillor Ian Watson and Councillor Mark Harris. Thank you, Councillor Coleman, for substituting Councillor Harris. Do any of us have any declarations of interest? The last thing is to approve the minutes held on the 29th of June. Would anyone like to? It was 29th of June, 2023, so forgive me. Thank you very much. Kevin, would you mind presenting the minutes? Thank you. This is an application for a street trading consent located at the Old Mill, lower Sloughton. The application was submitted by Frederick Jacobs, who is in attendance today, also represented today by Mr Bayliss of Keystone Law. The applicant has applied for a street trading consent for the Old Mill to be able to sell hot and cold beverages, ice cream, packed snacks and sandwiches Wednesday to Friday, 10 until 5, Saturday and Sunday, 9 until 5. During the peak season, July, August and September, seven days a week, 9 until 5. If granted, the applicant is seeking a 12 month consent. The planning department has requested the applicant review their permissions and apply if necessary, but this action does not affect the application for a street trading consent. No representations have been received from any other responsible authorities or the parish council and the report details town council, which is an admin error. 18 resident representations have been received concerning this application and are attached in Annex C. The options for consideration by the subcommittee are to grant street trading consent in the terms of the application, grant the street trading consent for a temporary period, grant the street trading consent with additional conditions or to refuse the application for a street trading consent. The applicant has provided some additional documents. This is an example of the menu image of the unit that they're going to be using and a proposed litter picking route. If all parties are in agreement and you're happy to do so, I can pass those out to everybody for review. Thank you, Kevin. Does anybody have any objections to that? Yes, please, could you distribute those? Chair, just by way of information, those are documents I submitted last week to Kevin and I'll be able to talk you through them as we come to the explanation about the application. Nothing further to add, Chair. Thank you, Kevin. So over to the panel, please, to ask your questions of the licensing officers. I'll try one, Chair. It seemed to me that the location of this proposed initiative is at a place where the roadway narrows and becomes more of a wide footpath with, I think, access to bridges over the river. I may go entirely wrong, but the general point of my question would be to what extent are we permitted or required to take into account the physical layout of the area where the proposed street trading license would take effect? So you'd need to be addressing the area where the street trader is going to be with considerations to public safety. Obviously, that may spill over from that, but the application is for private piece of land directly in front of the mill. So that is directly what you'd need to be taking into account and taking into consideration is where the application is being applied for. It's not on the public highway. Highways have come back stating it's not on the highway and it is private land, so they have no comments to make on the application. Thank you, Kevin. I would like to ask a little bit more about the site. So from what I understand, the site boundary goes from, I mean, I'm lucky enough to have it on Google Maps here, but it goes from the corner of the wall of the building closest to the river to the rounded wall where there seems to be a seating area. Is that correct? Is that the seating area? That is my understanding, but the applicant may be able to clarify that. With the images I was provided, that's what I've determined and with discussions with highways, but as I said, the applicant might be able to confirm that for us. Is that correct? Yeah, there's no seating area as such, but I'll explain the layout when we come to make our presentation. Okay, and the other thing I wanted to, I mean, bearing in mind that one of the major objectives, well, one of the only objectives of this committee is to ensure public safety. Is the old mill, does it, is it as it is on Google Maps or is there scaffolding? Are there loose tiles? Is there anything at the moment? Is there any construction work going on there? Yeah, there is construction work. Again, I'll ask Mr Jacob to talk to you about that because there's a massive renovation going on of the old mill itself and one of the reasons we wanted to get this street training licence was to provide a facility before the old mill reopens once the renovation is done. But again, we'll give you more detail in the presentation. Thank you. And my, another question I have is that it seems to be a cul-de-sac, the road going down to the old mill. There seems to be a cul-de-sac for the road going down to the old mill. Sorry, excuse me chair. There's some questions for the officers at the moment and then the applicant will give a presentation as he has said and then we can ask any further questions if they're not addressed. Thank you. Just so that everyone has their part. I think you're just as capable as answering this question but it's just about the traffic going down to the site because it would seem to me that that would be the obvious place to turn a car around because it is a cul-de-sac. So would there, have highways got any objections at all because if cars are going down there and reversing into the site close to where this application is for, you know, for the cafe or the trailer, my concern would be is there enough space to not knock over the people queuing up for their coffee? Because the application is for the private piece of land that isn't part of the public highways and the applicant wouldn't be responsible for those driving down in that space. They've made no comments in relation to that or any objections in relation to that. I can't say I'm familiar with the slaughters but I have been to the nearby honeypot of Borton on the water where there are some risks that one's going to accidentally step into a stream even in November. Borton's difficulties have had national attention and any wise or creative tourist person would start to look at alternatives. To what extent are we able to take into account the foot traffic generated by this establishment, by this proposal? People can get in each other's way to say the least and there are carrying hot liquids. These may seem minor but I think it's worth it to have a quick check on this. Thank you, Councillor. In terms of public safety and the consideration of the application and the highway, you can consider things like obstruction, possible obstruction to the street, danger to persons using the street and nuisance annoyance to users of the street. There is an element that you can consider when considering how the trade will be at the premises and the highway users. That can be considered to an extent. Thank you, Murray. My other thought was about public order. That is normally, do you see any vision about what public nuisance, public order problems there might be? I notice alcohol is not for sale. So this is a daytime, daytime business. But is there something I'm missing here? Is there any other public concerns that we should be looking at? As part of the application process, we as the licensing team will consult with the police and discuss the application. I did have a verbal discussion with the officer. No representations were submitted and they didn't have any concerns with the application in relation to the public order. Thank you, Kevin. The only other thing was about the nuisance and annoyance, which is another objective of the planning, the licensing committee. Smells and noise and waste and things like that. Has the applicant submitted any evidence as to how they are going to address those issues? No additional documents have been submitted. Just what is included in the report pack. They will be able to clarify when they give you their overview. If there were ongoing issues or complaints, then you have teams within the council where people are able to complain, noise complaints, et cetera. They have ways of logging those things and address those concerns. They would be dealt by the pollution team or the pollution team and manage those separately and work with us if necessary. If there is any other further measures the applicant has in place, they will be able to clarify that for you. Hypothetically, if there was a problem, then members of the public could refer to the ERS team at Cotswold District Council. The ERS team would then refer to you and that would affect how you might look upon this application if it came up for review. Potentially refer to us if it was in relation to the licensed activities. They would clarify that with us. If it was something purely related to their speciality, then they would deal with it and manage it there. There is a process that the public can use to move things forward. When it comes to a renewal time, we will be discussing with the applicants and working with them throughout that process. I appreciate that the horse box is on private property, but people make their purchase and then go on to public highway or public footpath. The arrangements for removing litter, the additional litter which is caused by people's purchases. has that been addressed? I think the applicant will be able to clarify what they have there. The additional document that was provided, one of those documents is a litter picking route that the intention is to use at the end of each trading day. Would you like to introduce the applicant and invite him to present? Would you like to present your situation? Having been a long-time resident of Bybury, I am well aware of the issues for residents in relation to being a tourist hotspot. This is something that Mr Jacobs has objected. To give the committee a bit of background, the Old Mill historically was used as a café by previous occupiers until Mr Jacobs bought it. It was used as a café souvenir shop. Mr Jacobs is investing a considerable amount of money, nearly £4 million in terms of acquiring and renovating this particular property to turn it back into something that is attractive, useful for the community and attractive for tourists as well. He is in the process of renovating the property at the moment. It won't reopen until 2025, sometime late next year. Grade 2 listed buildings, so obviously lots of permissions are required. The thinking behind this application, and it is actually cash negative from Mr Jacobs' point of view, he doesn't make any money out of it because he has the cost of the truck itself, he has staff costs and other costs involved with it as well. You have seen that I have provided a short menu showing exactly what he is going to be selling. The idea is to publicise the proposal of the premises reopening. Once it does reopen, the truck will go. This is only a temporary measure for Mr Jacobs in the short term until the renovation is completed. Then we revert back to what it always was, which was a very successful café and souvenir shop. It is effectively a temporary measure. Mr Jacobs tells me that probably it won't trade this year beyond the end of October. It is a daytime operation. And then maybe pick up again back end of April next year when the weather starts to pick up and we start seeing some tourist trade. He is also proposing, once the renovation is completed, to provide some sort of small village store, because there isn't anything at the moment in Lowest Lauder. So somewhere where local residents can buy milk, eggs, cheese, just basics really where they will be able to provide something. So it is a real potential, once we are past the street trading licence issue and we are back to the old mill itself, it is hopefully a real asset to the community. You will have noted, in fact I hear what you say, that there are no objections from the highways people, from the County Council. So the only issues really are those raised by residents and the concerns that residents have raised. Mr Jacobs went to the Parish Council meeting last week and addressed some of those concerns at the Parish Council meeting too and I think he hopefully made a few friends and a few allies so that people had more of an idea about what is proposed. Because, let's face it, this is not a large operation by any stretch of the imagination. It is mid-morning until late afternoon, teas, coffees, sandwiches, that type of thing. And there are, if you are minded to grant the application today, there are conditions which will be automatically attached to the licence which will deal with some of the concerns of the residents and I am thinking in particular on page 35, looking at the standard conditions that you have, condition 9 which says that the consent holder mustn't carry on the trade to cause obstruction of the street or endanger people or cause a nuisance. And condition 14 which requires the consent holder to dispose of waste properly and make sure that the immediate vicinity is clear of any waste. So again at the Parish Council meeting last week Mr Jacobs tells me that he showed the residents who went to the Parish Council meeting a picture of, we are going to have a big waste collection receptacle right by the side of the truck itself so that people can put their waste in there. We are cognisant of the fact that people will buy teas and coffees, no alcohol here, just teas and coffees or sandwiches or whatever, and we will walk around the village because it is a very pretty village and so people historically want to come and have a look around, take photos etc. So one of the things I suggested to Mr Fredericks was that we establish a litter picking patrol at the end of every day. That is this document which you have here. So he has produced that. If you want to add that as an additional condition to the street trading licence I am very happy for you to add a condition that there shall be provided by the council holder a litter picking exercise at the end of trading hours every day. And they will walk around the village and they will pick up any litter that is there and bring it back to us and so litter should be a concern. Parking I know is an issue. Again I remember it from when I lived in Vibra. Parking for residents is a dreadful issue. We can't make it any worse. It is already bad. We can't exacerbate it. We can try and help by asking tourists not to park on the bank side or anything else but because our units is actually based on our own property, people won't be parking on our property, they will be asked to move off. We are not providing any seating for people to be able to hang around and keep their cars on our property or anywhere else. You will have seen at page 18 the proposed location of the truck which is right on our property, pretty much against the wall of the extension building. And it is at the end of the carriageway. But again I wanted to emphasise the fact that highways don't seem to have a concern about this. I don't think we can make the parking situation any worse. Hopefully we can make it better by having someone on site. We have already identified a potential staff member to operate the truck once we start. I am going to ask Mr Jacobs now if I may, Chair, to give you a bit more background on where he is with the renovation and the likely time scale in terms of what is proposed. I would appreciate that because renovation sites can be hesitant of their own. I would like a clearer idea of how things are going and anything that is coming up in the future, like re-roofing or something like that, which could be hazardous. Scaffolding, unsightly issues, correct. So, Frederick, tell the committee a bit about the background, when you acquired the site and how the renovation is going currently. Thank you very much for the opportunity to speak. We purchased the old mill from the previous owners just about a year ago, so 12 months ago, with the intention to make it our primary home. We have been living in the UK for the past 12 years now, living in London for now, but really fell in love with the village itself when we first came a bit over five years ago and really find ourselves fortunate to call ourselves the custodians of that building. Now, the building itself, under previous ownership, was owned for 30 years and just needs work and maintenance work in order to make it suitable as a primary, as a home. That meets today's standards for a family of five. I have three young children together with my wife. And to make sure that the heritage value of the building itself is really preserved. For that effect, we are working with an architect who has put together a detailed proposal which has been submitted for planning application. It's been submitted just about a month ago, so it's in public view and can be commented on and we are waiting and hoping for positive feedback by the end of July at the latest. At the moment, there is no work going on, so the mill itself is dormant, it's sleepy, we are doing some work in the garden to make sure, but that's really it. We encounter numerous occasions people who have been to the mill previously and reminisce about their experience having been inside the mill itself, having bought ice cream and leave saddened to some extent because they are not able to access the building at this present moment. The trailer really is something that we find for one, as Laura said, it's not really money-making exercise for us, although we run as a business, it won't be ultimately throwing off any major profit. But it's really to make sure that the visitors to the village, but the residents of the village itself have something that they can come to, consume a coffee and really kind of act as a hopefully meeting point for people and then wander off along their footpath to Upper Slaughter, Burton or Walter or wherever their paths may take you. The property, the trailer is owned by us, it will be our future home and so we are very mindful that whatever impact the trailer or any of our activities has is in line with benefit for the village because it won't do us any good if we want to live there and we create a nuisance for ourselves. Having previously owned and operated restaurants before, a big group of bakery restaurants in Switzerland, I know the negative impact that smell emissions and noise emissions and everything like that have. So that's why there won't be any hot food preparation, so there's no grilling, deep-frying, no smells, greasy foods that we offer. So it's really deliberately left simple with hopefully pleasant noise emission or smell emission of coffees, teas, hot chocolates, fresh-baked croissants, etc. So that's really it. And as I said, on the litter picking route that is submitted, as potential, it's an idea. We are obviously very open to work collaboratively with our neighbours and the parish council to make sure that we make sure that the pristine visual appearance of the village is being preserved. I think that's it. Over to you and your colleagues now for questions if you have any. Thank you. I'm going to kick it off because I'm keen to know more about what is coming down the line about the refurbishment. Is the property going to be re-roofed? It most likely will require re-roofing, yes. So we are working with the architect and subject to obviously receiving approval of our planning application. A detailed work project and work schedule will be prepared and we'll obviously be mindful that there is no danger to anybody, to the property itself, that there will be any kind of public safety issues that will be coming. I mean your building contractors should be guiding on safety issues according to the re-roofing anyway, but I'm just drawing that as something that's in the back of my mind. If you're re-roofing a property, that's a hazard. It is a hazard. Thank you. It gives me an opportunity in framing this question to share my often shared view that if there's somebody that you dislike and you wish to make their life difficult, just ensure that they have a listed building to look after. It really is for all the best reasons a complicated business and I'm pleased to hear that you've made progress with making an application. I suppose I have a little, just perhaps if you could tell us about the parish council. They haven't objected, but given what you've said to us, I would have expected a message of support. Then I wondered, perhaps this isn't really a question, but can you think of a reason why they might not have gone as far as to actually say as a group they support this application? That's probably my fault. I've only been instructed by Mr Jacobs fairly late on over the past couple of weeks and I think the time period for submitting representations either for or against had lapsed and passed. I did suggest to Mr Jacobs that we might be able to get, in fact he suggested to me that he might be able to get some support from residents within the village, but I said too late now, I'm afraid we've passed the legal deadline for getting something in. Had I been instructed sooner or known about it sooner, I certainly would have done that, but perhaps anecdotally, if you're prepared to hear it, Mr Jacobs can tell you about any support he's had from residents in the village. I'm going to suggest that possibly, since there were clearly objections, parish council may have thought it wise to stay neutral. I understand, I understand. Because it's not a very highly populated area. Not at all, no. It may even be that everybody knows everybody. So, diplomacy may have, it's just completely irrelevant, I apologise, James. Yes. So, in simple terms, the horsebox is a staging post. Pending completion of works to the old mill, to enable a permanent outlet to be opened, and it follows from that, that you would be content to allow the, any licence you got for the horsebox to lapse once that had happened. Absolutely, yes. There's no question that this is going to be any sort of permanent arrangement. It's, effectively, it's a publicity vehicle for Mr Jacobs to, so the people are aware of what's coming, effectively, but it's not an intention to keep it there for the next ten years. We revert back to the caffeine side. Chair, sorry, if I may, on that point, any consent granted would be a 12 month consent anyway, and as I understand from licensing officer, a new application would need to be made, but whether it would be drawn back to the committee would be a matter for that application. And presumably, going back to what Kevin and I were discussing earlier, any concerns that local people had that had been referred to ERS would affect, you know, the, your, if there were no, if there were objections or anything like that, that would affect how the, a second application would be treated based on historical evidence. It wouldn't affect how we as a licensing team process the application, because everybody is entitled to make that application. What it might do is, the noise pollution team, for example, who were consulted with, they may submit a representation upon another application, so we would always ensure that's appropriate here, submitted, but representations may come in. Thank you, so it's basically in the applicant's interest not to attract bad press, as it were, from, from cons, cons, consultees, consult, you know, the people you're going to consult next time around, like highways or ERS, yeah, thank you. With the likely custom coming from people of senior years, some of them, people doing those long distance footpaths that intersect in the villages, and are increasingly popular, especially following the pandemic, and the widespread recognition of the benefits of walking. Have you thought it might be appropriate or possible to provide any temporary seating for any of the customers, or is there just no room, or would we have a licensing objection that I don't know about yet? It just struck me that, yeah, asking people to stand even in, particularly when it's raining, but many times after they've, what they're looking for is a drink and a sit down. Appreciate when the building's done. I'll give it, impressed if it's within 18 months, but hold on. That's not your fault, I can assure you. In the meantime, it might be, it might even assist in showing compliance with disability equality legislation that people whose mobility isn't perfect, when they need that drink, they need to sit, and if they're walking, or indeed cycling, can you squeeze a seat onto the patch, or will being down on you like a ton of bricks for that? It's something we've discussed. It seemed to me that it sort of swings and roundabouts in terms of providing seating, because if we do provide some seating, it encourages people to hang around and stay, and we thought from the perspective of the residents, they'd like people just to come and go off again. I completely get it, the issue in terms of seating. Frederick, what's your thought about providing some seating if it's something that the committee really-- Not on the highway. No, it would be on our own property, yes. On our own property, yes. So there is currently one bench that is on property. I mean, there's other areas that are kind of informal seating, but if that's obviously requested, I think I can only echo the reason why we didn't foresee additional seating is to not encourage for people to linger for too long, but obviously if there's a stipulation, then we're happy to explore that as well. But yeah, space in front of the mill is limited, and so we're trying to navigate and be mindful of just of the different needs of the different parties. If I may come in, so as part of the standard conditions, point 17, there is no free standing signs. EGA boards must be displayed on the street, no free standing seating, tables, chairs, sun shades, or other unapproved items are to be displayed. So it's not part of the application at the moment, so it wouldn't be expected to have that in place. It's something we would encourage correspondence about, but at this point, it isn't something that we would be imposing upon them. Something the committee looked positively on, we'd absolutely perceive it, absolutely. Recently, the full planning committee updated our prices for that regime of on-street furniture for refreshments, which was brought in as a temporary measure in the pandemic. So clearly that falls outside the licensing regime here today, and having raised the matter, I'm sure that it's something we shouldn't be thinking about. Thank you. Thank you very much for answering our questions, and may I invite the members of the public, including to make your representations. Do you have any questions? Would you like to come forward and take the microphone here? Oh, actually, sorry, yes. And would you like to introduce yourself? First of all, you press the button on the machine so that you're seen and heard, and introduce yourself. Good afternoon, my name's Andrew Bowler, I'm a resident of Lowis-Loughton. So there's two points of clarification. In the mill as it was operated by the previous owner, the cafeteria was a sit-down cafeteria at the rear of the building. So all the waste and all the food was kept in board of the building. It wasn't a takeaway facility. The only takeaway facility was ice cream, and it was all edible, there was no packaging. So it was mainly cones and things of that sort. So there wasn't hot drinks, cold drinks, and it was only ice creams. So that's why there's a concern from people about this increase or this enhancement of waste, which is different. And also, I think it's also similar to within the application, the new building application, it's a takeaway facility there as well. Rather before it was mainly leather goods, postcards, and trinkets to do with Lowis-Loughton. The other situation would be with regard to congestion. I walk a dog every day, and I walk past the mill, and there is a pinch point where it goes past the end wall next to the river. There's a swipe down into the river where people wash their walking shoes, there's a brush on the wall, and there's a narrow footpath down the side of a cottage. It is two people wide at best. So my concern would be if the van is parked in that corner, which is where it's proposed, and people queue, you will get a natural bottleneck between that and the river. And there is no protection to the right-hand side of the walkway. If you go off the side of the walkway, you end up getting wet in the mill pond. So it is kind of, at the moment, people progress it by stopping and starting, let one person pass. Now, the other pinch point is that is a place where everyone stops and photographs the mill with every tripods. People also stand there and paint it at the weekend. So I'm not against the construction. I'm not against the refurbishment of the mill. I actually support it. I was in construction for 40 odd years, but I am concerned about the takeaway facility, deliveries at whatever time of day and night, because mill lanes are a one-way street. It's already overpopulated because it gets very congested, and it is a small turning circle at the end of the road. So that was my biggest concern. The cafeteria is, it was a cafeteria before, but it didn't do takeaway food, purely on the premises. So it's a different offering. Thank you. Do you have any questions for either the licensing officer or the applicant and his agent? I asked the application, and it's not related to this particular meeting, but I was concerned, as you would imagine, about how the thing would be managed under construction. It's 18 months. I think it's probably closer to 18 months to two years with a fair wind. I've worked on Grade 1 and Grade 2 buildings in London, and my concern would be how you manage the construction and the contractor. Absolutely. That's not something for this committee. No, but my concerns are mainly litter and the congestion point, and the cafeteria offering something different. Thank you very much. Thank you. Sit down. Thank you very much. And would anybody else like to make a representation? Do come forward, and the same applies if you take a seat and press the button, and you'll be seen and heard. Hi. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to say a few things. Stuart Thomas. I've lived in Oislauter since 2010, so 14 years, and I live in Mill Lane. My main concerns were health and safety and the waste, which Andy has covered. However, it's obviously good to see this proposal, which goes beyond where we were when we put the objections in. I would make the point that people coming to Oislauter tend to park outside the hotels, and they then walk through the village along the riverside. Because there are always too many cars and too few spaces, they then drive through the village, and they tend to use the northern end of the village as an overflow car park. So people are walking from cars on the east side and north side down to the riverside. And fundamentally, if you buy a coffee here, you're not going to have drunk it by the time you get to that point, if that's the end of where they proposed to manage the waste. And similarly, there's probably going to be a lot of waste, but there could be waste potentially on the route back to the cars and on the route back to the hotels. At the same time, this is the warden's way, so it's a very popular walk up to Oislauter. And about a hundred metres further down from here, you end up in fields full of sheep. So waste and sheep potentially is an issue. The health and safety comes primarily back to the construction works. I spent all my life in building engineering design on major projects, and if you just think about taking tiles off roofs, the scaffolding, the construction traffic that's going to come down to what is a very poor highway in respect to circulation and turning, there are going to be some significant issues bringing in piling rigs, whatever it might be, to this small area over a period of 18 months to two years. I've been in retail design for most of my life, and this will, I believe, become a destination. So we will have a continual flow of what at the moment are eight-seater taxis coming down to this location, dropping off their clients, and then either parking illegally in Mill Lane or finding somewhere else to park before they come back to pick their clients up. So those are my primary concerns, and they're really no different to what was in the objection. Do you have any questions for the licensing officers or the applicants? Just really to ask, is there any way you could extend this daily cheque to cover the routes from car parking positions to the mill? I'm not sure what you do about the warden's way. Absolutely. This was just an indicative proposal that I asked Mr Jacobs to put together. We're happy to go anywhere to do the litter picking at patrol, because we appreciate that potentially littering only going to come from the van. So happy to expand this, extend it, and maybe in consultation with the two gentlemen who've turned up today. But very happy to do that. And as I say, if you want an additional condition on the license to that effect, I'm very happy to offer it. If I could also just state that there is a condition, number 14, the consent holder must ensure refuse originating from their trade is disposed of by a licensed waste carrier. So fantastic that there is a condition already in place. May I ask, do you have an intention to have branded paper cups? I mean, are people having drinks in China or paper cups or just this soft plastic sort of booker type cups? So for hot drinks, it will be compostable, kind of recycled cardboard cups, non-branded initially. Who knows at some point, future point, they may be branded, but for the time being, they will be unbranded. Brown-sleeved and white cups on the inside. All kind of – there'll be glass bottles, there'll be cans, but they will be unbranded as well. But obviously it's identifiable based on our limited range of offering, what would originate from outside. The effect of the litter picking patrol is we don't just pick up our litter, we pick up everybody's litter. So if there is litter on the route, it gets picked up at the end of our trading day. Thank you. And going back, sorry, I jumped the gun because I did. But do you have anything further to add or any questions to the applicants agent or the licensing officer? Would you like to sit down? Thank you very much. Is the applicant allowed to come back? Well, we have sort of done that, haven't we? So are you satisfied that we have covered the points up to point 14? I think it's more a question of whether the applicant is satisfied that they have had their full opportunity to address what has been said. But in any event, they may wish to summarise as per point 13 in there. So it may be worth just asking if they wish to just summarise and the objectives of the other parties as well. Thank you. So may I ask you, would you like to make further representations or address us? It would be helpful, Chair, just a couple of minutes just to deal with the points that were raised by the objectors. In terms of the concern about queuing, we can direct people to queue a certain way. So instead of queuing down towards the river, we can get them to queue a specific way back towards the mill so that there's no congestion as Mr Boler was concerned about in terms of if there is a queue, please god there might be when we're very busy. But they'll be directed to queue back towards the mill rather than down the road. Parking is parking is parking. I think I've addressed that already. But I do want to emphasise that Mr Jacobs and his family are invested in this project. This isn't just a fly by night operation for them. It's a four million pound investment. They're here for the long term. This isn't just a shop for them. This is somewhere where they want to live and make the rest of their lives. And so they've got a vested interest in making sure that they cooperate with residents, keep them happy, make sure there are no complaints, make sure they don't go to ERS. They'll do everything they can. Another common condition which is sometimes imposed on these licences occurs to me. If you wanted it, I'm happy to offer it. But maybe a condition requiring meetings with residents every quarter or reports to the local parish council whenever it meets in terms of how the premises are doing or any concerns. I'm very happy just to demonstrate that Mr Jacobs wants to get involved with the community and wants to be a part of the community and provide this facility. Chair, I think that's it. Thank you. And may I ask, gentlemen, are you satisfied that you've had your say? Would you like to ask anybody any more questions? Do please. Would you like to come forward though just so that you're seen and heard by everybody? The other thing that's slightly unusual is there's no WC facility associated with the mill being operational or open. I think one of the comments was that they will use the local hotel. But it's just a case of will that happen? It's also like queuing, isn't it? It's always hard to try and get people to queue it in the right place. Council has recently reviewed, has reviewed and is likely, I suspect, to this council to reduce the number of public conveniences. I don't know the answer to this question. Particularly the long distance walk is in mind because we prefer them to use WC rather than any informal method. How much provision in the slaughters is there for people walking or visiting to use a public public? It's purely two hotels. And it used to be the cafeteria at the mill. Because it was inbound and it was a facility. But that hasn't been for the last year because it's dormant. So I'm assuming it's the hotels at best and wherever else. Kevin, would you mind addressing that? So is that part of this committee's remit to address public lose? So it isn't a requirement as part of the policy to provide facilities. It's being a take away operation. It wouldn't be something that was required. If it was a building or a restaurant, there are certain requirements in those instances. It's away from licensing where they do need to provide such facilities. But in this instance, no. For the purposes of our decision making this afternoon, we can't even take that concern into account. Thank you. I'd like to give you some reassurance on that point. At the moment we don't have the drainage inside with the old mill. As soon as we get that and it gets done, it may be possible subject to building works and obviously health and safety. It may be possible to provide toilet facilities for the truck outside within the old mill. But again, it's something Mr Jacobs has already taken on board. And as soon as we get some drainage and the possibility of offering toilet facilities, we'll do it. That's hypothetical, but thank you very much for your contribution. Mari, are you satisfied that the room has had an opportunity to... You don't have anything to add? You don't have anything to add? And objectors, are you happy? Sorry, is there a time limit on how long we withdraw for? So I would help yourself to a glass of water. I don't know if there is tea making expenses anymore. But trust us, we've got lives too. Thank you. Thank you everyone for your patience and we have come to a decision. And I would like to confirm that we are minded to approve. We've decided to grant the street trading consent for one year for the activities, days and hours sought in the application as clarified this afternoon following this debate. In arriving at our decision, we have taken into account the street trading objectives, public safety and order and the prevention of nuisance. Representations have been taken into account from the consultees and from the objectors. And also we have taken regard of the council's own street trading policy. So that's the reasons. The conditions are... The standard conditions will apply to all of them to this application. We would like to add two further conditions. One is to take you up on the litter picking, the daily litter pick. And we have discussed this and one of the concerns that we have is the time limit it takes from somebody buying a cup of tea or a drink or a biscuit or whatever and the time it takes for them to walk and then want to get rid of it. So I would ask the applicants and their agents to think about that and put in measures to make it easier for all that litter to be kept together in the right points around the village. As one of the objectors quite rightly pointed out, there will be points whereby that litter dump in theory could be bigger than other places. So I would like you to be aware of that. The other thing is we would like you to take you up on your idea of visiting and attending in person the parish council. I would request that you actually approach the parish council, ask them to put this application on their next agenda and on the following agendas for as long as the parish council approves. So leave the decision up to them how long they would like to see you. But at least once so that you can approach them and give them feedback on how it's working for you so that they can give you feedback on how it's working for the community. And objectors, if you would pass, you know, I would also say that is the way forward. So if you see problems, you can do it through the parish council and the parish council know then how to report back to the council, this council, if there are any issues. The other thing that we discussed about, which is not a condition, is when the construction work is done, your construction company will have the burden of making sure that all health and safety initiatives are taken into account. And obviously they will need to know the operations of this and we will have to leave it to them. That's not something we can address at this meeting. And I think, I think that that brings this meeting to a conclusion. Thank you very much for your time and good luck with your venture.

Thank you very much for your time. If I may, can I just say that there is also during that 12 month that you have granted, the consent may be reviewed upon sufficient evidence of the conditions not being attended to. A relevant party would have to approach our licensing department and they would consider any representations made to them. And it could be brought back to committee on that basis. Absolutely right. Which we covered several times over this meeting, but that needs to be taken into account, especially with the objectives. Thank you very much indeed.