Transcript

Thank you Tom. Welcome everybody to the latest Linked Fire & Rescue Fire Pension Scheme Board meeting. Welcome everybody online who's dialed in and welcome everybody in the room. Before we get on to the normal business agenda, the first item we have is in regards to election of Chair. So from previous pension board minutes and actions we agreed of a rotation of Chair between employer and employee. We've come to the period where looking for a re-election of Chair. As I am the current standing Chair, I'm going to hand over to Thomas Clark for the Fire Pension Scheme Board, just to talk us through the process and also to ensure that we've got the right governance for this particular meeting. Thank you Tom. Thank you. Yes, if we could have a proposer and seconder for a member on the employee side. Thank you Tom, but from discussions within the organisation, I would like to propose William Dykevich as the next Chair for the employee representatives. And if anyone cares to second that or another? Happy to second that, thank you. Thank you and if we could have a show of hands for Councillor Corey if you could indicate please. Thank you very much, that's carried. Bill Dykevich has been elected the Chair, however he is absent today, so we're going to have to elect a Chair for this meeting only. If we could have a proposer for a Chair for this meeting only please. Happy to propose Mark Baxter. Thank you and seconder at all. Thank you and if we could have a show of hands that Mark Baxter be the Chair for this meeting only. Thank you, yep that carries. Thank you Tom. OK, so we are back into the business. First of all, for the minutes, thank you for all the support of the period while I've been Chair of the Pensions Board. It's been appreciated the support from the whole team and of course I'll still be a member of the Fire Pensions Scheme Board and we'll give Bill our full support during his tenureship. Thank you. Item 2, apologies for absence. Tom. Thank you Chair, we have apologies from Bill Jackiewicz and we have Paul Brown replacing Bill for this meeting only. Thank you Tom and a very warm welcome to Naomi who's come to our first meeting as the Strategic Finance Lead, so welcome to the meeting Naomi. Any declarations of interest? OK, so we'll just work through the minutes of the previous meeting and actions, we'll take the minutes as read so only please highlight any areas for accuracy and we'll take the actions as we go through the pages. So in regard to page 3 of the pack, page 4, page 5 we had two actions, one was to confirm if the TPR, Public Service Governance and Administration Survey has been received and completed. I believe we had an update in regards to that, there's been. Technology. Thank you. We had an update to confirm that for this year only that that survey would actually not go ahead. Thank you Liz and that has been updated in regards to our plan later on, on the action plan, thank you. And the second one was to record that the work had commenced concerning the year end return to Home Office which is a five pensions toppled grant which I believe that's also been recorded on the plan. Update in regards to that outside the meeting Naomi, just so you're up to speed in regards to the ongoing work on that, thank you. Okay page 6 of the pack for accuracy. And page 7, only action was for myself just to reach out to West Yorkshire Pension Fund just to ensure that availability to attend and if unable to attend send a designated representative recognising the pressures and availability of West Yorkshire have been for a period of time, the commitment was that there will always be a representative or a written update so that can also be closed and complete, thank you. Okay, so moving on then. Item three is the performance data update from West Yorkshire. Everybody should have the pack. So, Helen. Hi, good morning, hope you're well. Would you mind walking and talk us through the headlines of the performance data please? Right, so I think the first part is the performance indicators against the processes that we've done. Mainly good, 100% and then there's just two that are not. But it's one case each that's been dealt with outside of our normal timeframes and there's this kind of an explanation underneath about why our pension services team do have quite high volumes of work at the moment so it's a bit of a juggling act there. And as it says for the refund actual, there was some technical issue with the record that we had to refer to IT so that caused a delay. But obviously, everything else is at 100. After that, you've got all the kind of work in progress graphs and everything. Number three are your web registration numbers and a little graph underneath to show that so there's been a bit of an increase since May, that's a decent jump by the look of that. So, 315 active members, and you've only got, well, I mean, obviously, it's kind of 520 members, but some of those will have multiple posts. So actually, that's a really good percentage that you've got signed up of your active members there. Underneath that, you've got your membership numbers at far. So we just provide that each month so that you can see any kind of changes. And then we just produce the same kind of things in graph form underneath for your active, deferred and your pensioners. And then at part five, this is our administration update. So we've just put down what we need for the Matthews exercise. Once you get to the point where the members signed up and their pension needs to be dealt with and you're sending all the data for us to us to do that, that's just a rundown of what we'd like you to send us and how we'd like you to send it. So that just runs all the way through. And then there is also an update on the tax issues that are affecting payment of Matthews pensioners. And there were three areas of issue. And we've confirmed there that the first two are no longer a problem. And we've got some wording from LGA to put on the letters so they can be dealt with. But number three is still preventing payment. And obviously any cases are on hold with us and we'll start to process as soon as we get the go ahead. Part six of the report is the communication and training. So annual benefit statements 2024, we've started production. But they are only going for those who are out of scope for remedy as we previously notified. And the majority have been done for yourselves. And we are still looking to work to the day of the 31st of December 24 for those people who were in scope for remedy, and we'll be getting the combined annual benefit statement remedial service statement. And we are just in the process of finalising a letter that's going to go to all the those members and letting them know of the delay, and when they can expect to hear something. I've had the draft last week and we've got a new and further updated one so we just get into the point of signing that off. And just then again, to let you know what just letting you know what training that our employer relations team have been doing for FHIR employers, and I think they've all gone past this date now. But just keep your eye on either hot topics or just the website because any new ones that come up in the dates will be notified. Just again, we sent a client a survey out to all FHIR authorities, asking if they would complete it and letting us know really what's good and what's not good, what could be improved, and then seeing what we can do about any of that. For me, it was quite a quiet month in terms of the meetings, just a couple of national meetings there, and I did a pre-retirement as well, and then we've got no specific member updates for yourselves and no update from IT. The audit plan is just a repeat. We kind of published that for you just so that as a board you're aware of how often we're audited, what areas we're audited on, and just to give you reassurance that we are subject to quite a lot of audits. And then what will happen after an audit is in the quarterly client meeting, we'll provide you the feedback that comes from the relevant audit so that you're aware of what's been said. So that's all those pages. Then we've got the number 10 to the overriding disclosure time limits to let you know whether there's been any breaches. Our key performance indicator timeframes are generally shorter than overriding legislation, so we have to keep an eye on whether we've breached any overriding legislation as well, and we'll tell you that there, so there's nothing in there at all. There's the normal calendar of events to show you what kind of key things we have to work on in each month. And then this is just the kind of number 12, the regulation scheme update is all from the LGA bulletins. So we're just repeating a lot of the key points in there and highlighting them again, but I think you're going through those separately anyway. So that is my updates concluded. If anybody has any questions.

Thank you, Helen. Just a quick question from me at the beginning in regards to the processes recognising that actually we're, as you say, the vast, vast majority of the stuff is 100% target met and the two cases that aren't. Your narrative, what you're saying is that you are experiencing a high volume of work and there was also some issues in IT that caused the delay. I mean, I think we're all sighted on an extremely busy period for everybody when it comes to the pensions and particularly for West York here. Have you got the confidence that you've got the capacity to be able to continue meeting these demands or is there any risk that we need to know about? Well, we're recruiting again. So hopefully, yes, we will have the capacity. I think we haven't been able to recruit our senior pensions officer level. So what we're doing is we're recruiting extra at the pensions officer level. So hopefully, we'll have the numbers in place to be able to just keep everything moving. It may not be quite as timely. I'm not saying we'll breach the KPIs, but we might not be quite as timely in some areas as we would like. But as far as I'm aware at the moment, we shouldn't have any problems meeting the KPIs and keeping up with what we've got. Okay, yeah, thanks for that. And then just specifically, Mayor for Lincolnshire, the two cases that are out of the target meet, are they still in progress? Are we going to have any more significant delays on them or are they near to end of completion or is it somewhere in between? No, no, they'll have been completed because you don't get on this list until you're completed. So it's been done, and then that highlights that it wasn't done within the 10-day timeframe. So yeah, they've been completed and dealt with. Yeah, sorry, yeah, that makes sense. Thanks for that update on that. Thank you. I've got four other questions for Helen. No, thank you very much for that. Thank you, Helen, for the update and the work ongoing. We'll move on to item six, which is current issues, verbal update from Liz. Thank you. Thank you, Mark. Oh, just to let you know, Helen, I have completed the survey and I think just want to place on record. I mean, I know that sometimes West Yorkshire are put in a difficult situation actually by the council. I just want to thank yourselves for having to do the impossible sometimes. So I just wanted to say thank you because we just had that recent retirement case where you were fantastic as a service in responding to that need. And also I did reflect that in the survey that I completed as well. So going on to the current issues, IDRP cases, we've had none. Breaches, we've had none. In relation to the Sergeant McLeod age discrimination remedy, we have 473 individuals who are actually in scope of that remedy. And of those, 186 are also in scope of the Matthews second options exercise. Since the introduction of the legislation on the 1st of October, 2023, we've had 14 retirement notifications so far. Nine of those have chosen legacy scheme benefits and one individual has still to reply. They're not wanting to take up the benefits at the moment. And three are still in process. Going on to the Matthews second options exercise. So out of 865 individuals who were originally in scope, we've been able to send out a total of 778 letters following the use of the tracing service where we did not have an address because we had to make all reasonable endeavors. We did go through basic checks and also find rescue authorized extended checks on that as well. So of the 778 letters that were sent, we have had 375 expressions of interest forms back. We do chase those up. I am also going to be in contact with the FBU locally to see if there's anything else they can do to help us get those expressions of interest forms back. 317 individuals have indicated they wish to take up the option to buy back the pension. But 16 individuals have said that they don't wish to take up their option. We've still got 42 individuals that have been ruled out of in scope following further investigation. As I said, we are continuing to chase outstanding expressions of interest forms. That's it on that update. Thank you. Thank you, Lizzie. Recognizing there's an awful lot of work going on in regards to behind the scenes to try and pull all the information data and probably most importantly engaging with current and ex-staff who are still members of the pension scheme which is probably our biggest challenge at the moment. So is there any additional support that is required in regards to trying to maintain this direction of travel? We've tried various mechanisms. As you know, we've engaged with the FBU previously and they have various support networks for people that -- because what we're talking about in the majority is firefighters that were originally not able to join the pension scheme. For some reason, when the first options exercise took place, they chose not to take that up. But again, it could be because, of course, payroll records, they're only kept for seven years. So we have no pension record because they never joined the pension scheme. We use the tracing service as well extensively. I know that people within foreign rescue because you know of this exercise and when you get in social media comments, you know, you're doing everything you can to say, yes, this is something you need to do and you need to address. But as we mentioned, you know, there's quite a lot of people that are still not responding but I don't know what else we can actually do. Even the ones, though, that we're sending the reminders and we're just not getting responses back and we're making all reasonable endeavors but, you know, until people get that form back to us, we can't action it on their behalf and it's so important but I don't know what else we can do. I appreciate that, Liz. And I think -- and the reason why I was asking the question is really just as a board, we just need even that insurance that we are doing everything, all reasonable efforts to ensure that we are reaching out to people who are known and unknown to us in regards to that. And I think looking at the suite of options that we've gone through in regards to utilizing social media, reaching out informal and formal networks, I think it also must be recognized that it's still going to be an individual responsibility for people to respond back. So we're able to support any future claims. So, again, I think it's just for the board's assurance that we are doing everything we can on that and that does feel like that is the case. Thank you. Hi, Councillor Corey. Hello. I just wanted to echo Liz's opening remarks and extend my thanks to Helen and her colleagues at West Yorkshire. It's a difficult job and it's a particularly busy time. So thank you very much. Thank you, Councillor Corey. An overwhelming vote of thanks to West Yorkshire and Helen in particular in regards to leading that through. So just echo those sentiments. Thank you. Okay. Unless any other questions for Liz? We'll move on to the five pensions board plan, which is in the pack. We'll skim through to on page 36, which is the areas which I know we've touched on in regards to the actions, which the first one was 2114, which was about the plan for the TPR public services governance and administration. Survey, we have confirmation that's come through that that has been paused for this year due to other priorities. So if we can just have an action for the plan, that just gets updated to January 2025, Tom, so we can then just recognise that it is still ongoing for the forward plan. Next item with 2115, this is about the providing year end return to home office that sits with LCC finance team Naomi, so we can give you a bit more further information and data. Work has commenced in regards to that and the team are working on that, but it might be worth just reaching back into the team just to ensure that they've got the confidence to be able to provide that through to home office. And then the still the live ones, as Helen has updated the annual benefit statements is his work is commencing in regards to that. So we know we've got that timeline of always 24 four, but that's ongoing. And then that they are the main ones for this calendar year. So unless there's any other items that need to be added on to that. Yeah, good point. Yes. 2116 is still referencing Serco. So we'll we'll update that as changing of providers happen since April. So thank you for that. If we can just update that, please. Tom, thank you. Okay. Next element is just on the on the appendix is just the updating of the training record did note on Helen's updates that there are we keep an eye out for any additional bespoke training sessions that are available. We will just keep an eye on regards that and if any board members are attending them, if we can just inform Tom and Tom then can update that on the master training sheet. Thank you. Thank you, Mark. It was just something I was going to pick up because particularly with Bill taking over the chair and obviously yourself. It might be a good time to actually do that refresher training and also for Naomi as well, because we've got obviously Naomi and myself are advisors, but we're still your advisors to the board. So I do think if I just take it offline circulate the day, see what's ones best, and then if we can collectively go to one of the training LGA sessions, they are virtual. Obviously, there's the one off in London, but the majority are all of them. That one is virtual. Excellent suggestion, Liz and I think we'll just record that as an action that these are just going to look at future days for refresher training for new board members, and then we'll record once that's been completed. Thank you for that, Liz. For an element of the board plan is the risk register against open open up for the board members to comment, following from the last review from last board. The only reviewed date on it was my eyes are a bit. I need a bigger fund or new eyes. A4 was updated in regards to lack of skilled resources LCC in West Yorkshire. We've had a control measures were updated that we've recruited dedicated person support within LCC. However, LCC had been had some sickness and issues and absences as well, but they are being resolved. But we are still having a residual risk as a number three more useful discussion, just to understand Helen from where he or she is point of view in regards to that resource capability as well. So I think it still feels like that's an amber status at this moment in time. But again, just hoping for the board. If there's any other areas within the risk register that feel isn't appropriate. We have no red risks. We still have a handful of ambers and the rest are green. Any comments, observations. Okay. Thanks, Tom. We can just have a minute that all accepts the risk register is still appropriate for the pension board. Thank you. And then now thank you for that. Moving on to again, the updates, if I'm honest with you, they often merge into one of these next two, aren't they? They're the fire pensions officer group or and the scheme advisory board. And normally it's probably between Helen and Liz updating on that. So I'm kind of opening up as anybody wants to lead on this one. Yeah, I'm sorry. Yeah, absolutely. I've got to run ahead of myself, Liz. Absolutely. Thank you for that. Before that, before that, let's go to the fire pension scheme. Bullet is absolutely is with you. Thank you, Mark. I thought you'd give me a get out of jail free card. But OK, so in the pack to the board, there was the full key points summaries from the LDA fire pension bulletin. Sorry, I have to control myself. I'm still laughing on to the book. I just wanted to highlight a few of those key points that I drew on. So in the March bulletin, this was a contribution adjustment member fact sheet. And this explained where contribution adjustments occurred and how they're going to be actioned. And we did actually then publish that in the fire weekly bulletin, just so fire pension scheme members were made aware of that. In the April bulletin, this related and Helen sort of made reference to this in her update as well about the tax treatment on interest on pension arrears and lump sums. So SAP have actually written to SAP and Scheme Advisory Board have actually written to Her Majesty's Treasury to express the concern about the ongoing tax considerations needed for immediate choice members. I have to say, Mark, this is goes back to your comment about the risks and issues in that internally we do not have any people with a pensions background. Of course, when colleagues from CERCO came over to us on the 1st of April, we do now actually have a manager that's been put in place and he actually manages the HR admin, the payroll and the pensions administration team. And obviously it isn't the area that they are looking at because this is one area where actually there's been so much dialogue and you're getting in quite a lot of pension detail and it's trying to get to understand what the situation is to then to try and explain it to other people who also don't have a pension background as well. And this is just one of the areas at the moment that's been rattling around. The same bulletin, we have the remedy frequently asked questions. So there have been updates to those frequently asked questions. Again, we put that in the weekly bulletin and we also identified which particular areas of the FAQs have been updated. For the May bulletin, there was the compensation guidance. That gives the power for scheme managers and obviously for us, Andrew Crookham is actually the scheme manager and of course you've got Naomi and myself, which are his delegates. And it gives scheme managers the power to pay compensation in respect of financial losses incurred by members. There has been scheme manager and member guidance issued to support consistent decision making, as well as the claim form that's available to members. And then the Home Office have also published their compensation funding guidance, which we can tap into. In the same bulletin, it mentioned about statutory deadlines, and there was a fact sheet published that helps support scheme managers and their delegates to understand the different statutory deadlines within the age discrimination remedy process, where certain elements of the remedy have to actually be implemented. If we don't adhere to these statutory deadlines, it would constitute a breach in law and then would have to be reported to the pension board and then any breaches assessed as material would then have to be reported to the pensions regulator. So that's the end of the bulletins. So I'll just pause if there's any questions, and then I can go on to the fire pensions officer group afterwards. Thank you, Liz. Probably -- I'm not sure if it's a question, observation/statement. I think it's in the whole subject in regards to the tax treatment issue that's ongoing. So hopefully more for all board members. So understanding is at the moment, there's recognition, there's a tax policy gap is probably the best way I can describe it in regards to the administration of the tax implications. We know we've had the guidance in regards to the green, amber and red letters, which gives that definitions in regards to which ones we can progress, which ones are at risk, and they've been written out. My understanding is that there is some healthy dialogue going on with HMTS treasurer and looking at potentially updating legislation to close this gap to enable fair and transparent tax treatment. Is that your understanding of where we are with it at the moment in time, Liz? If you don't mind, could we also bring Helen in on this point? Thank you. Helen, if you wouldn't mind giving us your understanding of the latest update on it. Can you just repeat your question? Sorry. We're just discussing about the taxation treatment ongoing issue that's going on at the moment, and we just outlined that actually there's currently there's one about a legislative/policy gap. Our understanding is there's some ongoing discussions with Her Majesty's treasurer to hopefully bridge that, either by changing of legislation or et cetera. Currently we know we've got the green, amber and red letters that have gone out that gives guidance in regards to which ones can be administrated, which ones are more at high risk. I'm really asking if you've got any more information or update on where we are with this ongoing issue. I think one of the major problems with it is the general election. So HMRC had confirmed that they were happy with the kind of -- to put a solution in place, but that would require a change in legislation, and that would be at least six months before those regulations went through. So Treasury said that they would be prepared to put out a written ministerial statement, which hopefully would give FRA's comfort in that they could then start looking at the red cases in advance of the amendment regulations. But obviously now that's all put on hold because of PIRDA, but then the results of the general election, we have to -- obviously, whoever gets in, we might end up with -- you know, we're going to end up with potentially new ministers, and they have to get up to speed on the issue. And they have to confirm that they agree to keep it moving in the direction that it was -- that's already been agreed. And so we don't really know -- we don't really know what exactly is going to happen. I mean, we're hopeful that post general election it will get -- you know, everything will get agreed and we'll get a WMS and we'll be able to start looking at red cases, but the reality is at the moment we really don't know. Thank you. Have we got a sense of how many within Lincolnshire are affected by red cases, numbers-wise? Do we know roughly what that is? Do we know roughly what that number is, Liz, off the top of your head? No, it's not shifted. We're talking handfuls, are we, rather than -- yeah, okay, so we're talking a handful of cases that we -- and we're cited on, we know who those are. So that's the main thing, we've got that assurance on there. Okay, thank you. So, yeah, so it does feel, obviously, we just need to wait to see what the next government's position is in regard to it and actually ensure that we can still have that progress going in that direction of travel. Because, again, it is going to be concerning for members who have caught up in this taxation legislative loophole, we'll call it. Okay, thank you. Any other questions for Liz? Oh, hi, Helen. I would just say, I don't think Lincoln should have got any red. Okay, I think we're just looking at that, because I think Liz has got a view that we may just have a handful, so we might just need to cross reference those, that position to make sure that we have clarity on exactly who it may be affected. Yeah, Liz, if you just want to get in touch. Yes, thank you, Helen, thank you, appreciate that, thank you. Okay, and then I think I am back on track to what I originally said in the first introduction there. So, fire pensions officer group, Liz, did you say you were going to give a bit of an update on that? Thank you, Mark. I'll give the overview, Helen, and if there's anything else you then think I've missed out on. So, fire pensions officer group, Nerf POG, for those that go, just rolls off the tongue a bit easier, took place on the 24th of April. So, some of the key points that came out of that meeting is there's been some changes at the LGA, and as you know, we pay a levy each year to contribute towards the salaries of the individuals at the LGA. So, Sandra Sedgwick has actually joined the fire pensions team at the LGA, so she's in addition to Claire Johnson, who's the senior pensions advisor, and Tara Atkins, who's a pension advisor. So, Sandra will be supporting on technical queries relating to the Matthew second options exercise, and Tara will concentrate on the sergeant technical queries. It was also mentioned about the firefighters pension scheme amendment regulations 2024 that came into effect on the 27th of March of this year, which allowed the provisions of unpaid carers leave to be included in calculating pensionable service. And then, as a result of that, the carers leave regulations 2024 means that from the 6th of April of this year, pension contributions are deducted from carers leave and included in pensioners pensionable pay and obviously HR admin, payroll and pensioners administration are aware of that too. I'll gloss over to the next bit because it talked about the fire pension board training sessions, so we talked about that earlier, and we're going to look at a date to do that refresher training. There was a bit about sergeant and added pension compensation arrangements, because that did not exist. So I'm just looking at my notes if you bear with me one moment. Yes, it did not exist in the legacy scheme so when members were actually rolled back into their legacy scheme, and they had actually bought added pension contributions. That will be for the period, the first of April 15 and the 31st of March 2022, which is the remedy period, it had to be returned to members. So we have two cases in Lincolnshire and refunds were given to them by the required date. The LGA mentioned that they were intending to hold an ill health conference in July, because a number of queries they get are relating to in health, but today, we've not actually seen a date for that conference. And then the last one was in relation to pension dashboards. So it just confirmation that the public service pension schemes connection date is the 31st of October 2025. So unless there's anything Helen you think I've missed from that meeting? No, I don't think so. Because we've moved on quite a bit from April to now when everything's changed, hasn't it? So, yeah, I think they're the key points. Appreciate that. Thank you. Have we got an update from, if there's been a scheme advisory board? Yeah, there was one on the 18th of June. So we just covered, the Home Office covered the impact of the general election on their ongoing work, and kind of what the Canon can't do and how we might get some very couched responses from them. So they, they just showed a few slides to kind of show the impact on them. Home Office also did an update on the review of employee contribution rates and updated kind of scheme advisory board members on why they were having, why it was having to be done. And asked scheme advisory board to consider a whole range of options and what they felt the key aims needed to be. Such as, you know, they didn't want anything to kind of counteract somebody going for promotion. They wanted them to be supportive of the lower earners and a few other things. And then there's all kinds, and, you know, what should the bands change? Should there be more bands? So we had, there was a discussion on that. We just had a discussion on, well, the LGA themselves gave an update on the work that they'd been doing since the last meeting and where they were. That's, you will be aware of all of that because it will come out in all the bulletins and the meetings and the coffee mornings. One of the committees did an update on, an update that the committee sent out a survey to all pensions administrators asking where they think they will be with age discrimination, with Matthews. Do they have issues getting data from FRAs? Have they got issues with the software suppliers? So there was just a general conversation around some of the answers that came through that survey. There was a really short discussion on the annual meeting in September and how it's being planned and what the intentions are for day one and day two. So obviously information will come out about that once it's all been finalised. TPR came and did, again, a short update on dashboards and what the scheme advisory board needs to be aware of, where the responsibilities lie. And obviously making sure that local pension boards are aware that they need to be asking questions of the administrator and getting updates from administrators, because although the administrator is probably going to do the majority of the work, dashboards will only be successful if the data is accurate and available. But also on top of that, even though the administrator is going to be doing most of the work on your behalf, the scheme manager still has ultimate responsibility for it. So if something goes wrong, it will fall under the scheme manager. So it was all just a discussion on that. And then at the end, a number of pensions administrators were invited to join and to give an update, a verbal update on their position with age discrimination and the problems that they might be having and compliance and all the issues and then the same from both software suppliers. So that was the last scheme advisory board. Thank you, Helen. Just out of interest of those discussions in regards to the administration's feeding through in regards to any main issues, was there any common threads that came through? Well, basically, yeah, the delay in getting the legislation in place and the confirmation of legislation had an impact on the software suppliers being able to get all the updates done. So everything's basically coming through late and not really giving administrators the time that they'd like to deal with it. So there was that. And then the other part was. We've all got certain fire authorities that haven't sent us the required data. So even if all the everything was in place from the software supplier and we could press the button to produce the calculations for some FIS, we don't have data. So they were the two main things. Thanks, Helen. And just for confidence and assurance for this board for Lincolnshire, I'm assuming you're getting the required data for Lincolnshire. Yeah, we've got your data. Yeah, excellent. Thought it would be important just to note that. Thank you. OK, any other questions for Helen? OK, thank you. Well, that brings us on to the final item. We're just confirming date and time of next meeting, which we have got planned in for 4th of October, 10 o'clock, where Bill Dykovich will be taking over as the new chair. As always, thank everybody for the support and input and our proposed closing today's meeting. Thank you all. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Bye. [BLANK_AUDIO]