Transcript

Good afternoon, welcome, or good morning sorry, welcome to cabinet members decisions for adult social care on Tuesday the 25th of June 2024. So in the event, some housekeeping rules first if I may, in the event of a fire alarm please exit out of the council chamber, turn left and go straight out of the fire exit in front of you and then make your way to the assembly point at the top level of the car park. I will introduce the officers at the beginning of their items. And as you are aware, we are now in the pre-election period for the general election which is taking place on the 4th of July. Guidance has been issued to members and officers and we have been advised to refrain from endorsing or referencing any candidates or political parties standing in the elections and any controversial political campaigns or policies related to the election. Please note that today's meeting is being webcasted on the public website. Can I also remind everyone to turn on their microphones when it is your turn to speak. Perhaps if I introduce myself first as well, I am Councillor Sinead Mooney, Senate member for adult social care here at Surrey County Council. So we will now move on to the business of the meeting. First item is declarations of interest. Can I ask any members to state any declarations of disclosable pecuniary interest related to items on this agenda? No, thank you. Item 2a, members questions, I can confirm that none have been received. Item 2b is public questions and again I can confirm that none have been received. And item 2c is petitions and one petition has been received and will be dealt with under item 3. So if we now move to item 3 and the petition is to save Jutland Place. So a petition with 339 signatures has been received requesting that we, the undersigned petition, Surrey County Council to prevent the Jutland Place care home in Egham from closure and to provide in situ care for the residents of Jutland Place from the 9th June 2024 onwards or to tender a third party to provide care services from the 9th June onwards. A response has been published with the agenda but I'm going to call on the lead petitioner to present the petition. You have three minutes to speak to your petition Sam. Thank you, over to you. Thank you Councillor. This petition was created following the decision by Mencap to withdraw care and support services from the Jutland Place care home as of 9th June. This decision and the continuing absence of a positive resolution that supports the best interests of the residents has caused great anxiety and distress to six vulnerable people in my community with additional needs and their families. Surrey County Council is the statutory body responsible for adult social care and as its own website states there is around 439 million allocated to Surrey's adult social care services per year. But Surrey have not only failed to prevent the residents from losing their home of over 30 years, it now also seems that Surrey is trying to distance itself from its own decisions. Councillor Mooney, you have consistently said that your priority is the wellbeing of the residents. So why did your officers invite the residents to visit a property on Talbot Road that hasn't got the appropriate planning permission yet? And why, when the families raised legitimate concerns about feasibility of other properties, were they told that Surrey didn't have the time or the staff to deal with them? It has been claimed that there is now no property nor a care and support provider who can provide sustainable services at Jutland Place anymore. Yet when credible, costed business cases came forward and there were several, Surrey actively chose not to commission any new provider even though the landlord of the building has consistently offered to work with anyone that is willing to keep the service going. The residents have been told that Surrey understands how difficult change can be but I asked the cabinet member, have you ever been forced to contemplate leaving your home and your surroundings and your social network because your needs won't be met by the local authority anymore? That is the reality that now faces the residents of Jutland Place. And instead of making decisions that will support our residents with additional needs, Surrey has failed to take any responsibility. The alternative homes to Jutland Place that have been put forward so far are either too far away or simply not up to the standard that you would expect for a resident with a disability and so they've been rejected by the residents occupational therapists. I was even more shocked to be told that the families were even advised by a serving cabinet member to go and look on Rightmove for a better care home. Councillor Mooney, in the past you've been heard to say and I quote, No residents should be left behind in Surrey. If you still stand by those words, perhaps you could offer an apology to the residents of Jutland Place and their families for the way they have been left behind by this council. Thank you. Thank you very much, Councillor Jenkins. I now call to the two officers here if you could first introduce yourselves, please. Good morning. I'm Anna Waterman. I'm Head of Commissioning for Disabilities within Adults' Wellbeing and Health Partnerships here at Surrey County Council. Good morning. My name is John Millerstone. I'm Director of Integrated Commissioning in Adults' Wellbeing and Health Partnerships with Surrey County Council. Thank you both very much. If I could ask you, Anna, Head of Commissioning, Disabilities, to talk through, introduce your items, and then I will have some questions for Councillor Jenkins as well as yourself. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor Mooney. So, yes, if I pick out some salient points from the response to the petition that's been published, I think the first thing to highlight that this was, as you say, Councillor Jenkins, it was a business decision by Mencap. We in the council have been working jointly in partnership with Mencap and with Runnymede District Council for something like two years to really think through what is the future of Jutland. Unfortunately, there weren't any other opportunities available to us, and Mencap took the decision in December that they would be giving notice in January that they could no longer keep Jutland as a going concern, and they gave notice in January with a six-month notice period. It's worth noting the role that each of the three agencies play. So Mencap is the care and support provider. The property itself is owned by Runnymede District Council, and the role of Surrey County Council is to commission the care and support that's provided at a given property. So perhaps the most salient points are covered in paragraph three of the response to the petition. It covers off the fact that it's obviously very disappointing for residents, very upsetting for residents and their families that now Jutland Place cannot be considered a going concern. Mencap had highlighted to us that despite many referrals for individuals that Surrey County Council have made to occupy vacancies at the property, none of these vacancies were taken up by the individuals and by their families, so they've been carrying vacancies and expect to continue to carry vacancies on into the future, and that means that it's not a financially viable concern for them. They themselves have looked at other care and support providers to see if there are any other providers that can come in to provide the care. They haven't been able to identify any. Surrey County Council also targeted a number of providers. Something like 10 providers were specifically targeted as well as the wider call for interest, but no provider found, having visited Jutland Place, found that they were able to take it on as a going concern. In terms of the future of the six individuals who currently reside at Jutland Place, as I said, our role is specifically to focus on the care and support provision for those six individuals. So whenever a residential care home is closing or a supported living setting is closing, it's our responsibility to have a look at what the options might be and to identify the different choices that people might make for themselves. In this case, five of the six individuals need some support from individual independent advocates or from their families to really explore what the options are. Many of those discussions have taken place. We now have definitive arrangements in place for four of the six individuals. They will be going to alternative arrangements that families have visited together with social care practitioners and advocates. A fifth of the six is exploring going to the same property, and it is anticipated but not definitive as yet that they will also have some definitive arrangements by the end of this week next week. The sixth is yet to be determined. We're still yet to identify a property that meets with the needs and wishes of that individual, and particularly with that individual's family. You mentioned, Councillor Jenkins, the difficulties that we've had in relation to one property, and I have just a bit of further information from today. The property has been refused planning permission, so has been taken off the table as a viable option. But as I say, four of the six individuals had already determined that it wasn't desirable to them and have identified the most appropriate property for themselves, for their loved ones. I think perhaps if I stop there, Councillor Mooney, and then if there's any further questions, I'd be happy to take them. Thank you, Anna. Did you want to add anything, John? Thank you, Councillor. I don't think there's anything I want to add. Anna has run through very clearly, and just to acknowledge, you know, these sort of circumstances are distressing for the individuals and families, and our focus has very much been on working with the families in a positive way to identify suitable alternatives. I think it's encouraging that four that Anna has confirmed have a definitive offer. There's work ongoing with the fifth and sixth person, and I hope that reaches a positive conclusion for them as well. Thank you very much, Councillor Jenkins, and thank you to officers for talking through your positions in a very concise way. I do have a couple of questions, and I just wondered if I could direct them to yourself, please, if I may, Anna. So there is a I think possibly actually for you, John, I think there is well, I know there is a big ambition within Surrey County Council when it comes to supported independent living, and I do know extra care housing as well, and we also had a groundbreaking ceremony recently at a short breaks facility that we plan to build very soon. So I just wondered if you could just talk through very concisely if I could ask, because I'm conscious of time, this county council's ambition and commitment to providing modern, state of the art facilities for some of our most vulnerable residents in the county. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor. I will keep it brief. You're absolutely correct. I think since 2019, through the council's accommodation care and support strategy, we set out very clear ambitions over the decade through to 2030, both around extra care, largely focused on older people to deliver 725 units of accommodation, affordable accommodation by the end of the decade, focusing on people with learning disability and autism, similar ambition there to increase the quantity of supported independent living available to people that promotes independence, encourages people to live good and active lives in their community. We've worked very successfully with providers on that thus far, and we have increased the percentage of people living in supported independent living independently in their community to this point. Our target is 40 to 50%, we're already at 27%. We also as a council are actively taking forward that ambition. We have three sites with full planning permission. You mentioned a short break service that is already under construction. The three other supported independent living sites will go under construction in the next two to three months. So the council is actively pursuing and contributing to that agenda, as are our providers who have been deregistering schemes and creating new schemes for people to be able to move into good quality housing located in their communities. Thank you. And I pick up in the response the comments around Jutland House and it would appear that some refurbishment criteria to bring this accommodation potentially up to the standard perhaps can't be met. Could you just clarify on that please? Yeah, sure. So there was a suggestion in one of the meetings that we had with the families that we should be looking at refurbishment of Jutland Place in order to either convert it into a supported living setting because following the reassessments for each of the six individuals, it was clear that they could move into a supported living setting rather than look at residential care. So there was a concern as to whether or not we could look at converting Jutland Place into a supported living setting. However, this would take a great deal of time. It would need to be looked at by the surveyors at Runnymede Borough Council given that they are the landlord. And it was clear that the interim housing director was very clear with ourselves, Surrey County Council, with Mencap and with the families that there wouldn't be the time to consider refurbishment plans and that it would require an awful lot of investments to make sure that those plans could come to fruition, that they would take some considerable time, which we didn't have, clearly given that Jutland Place as it is was then due to close on the 9th of June. We've got an extension till the 31st of July. But also bearing in mind that as it stood, Jutland Place does serve very well in terms of two semi-detached properties so that the added benefit of the conversion would be negligible, just purely looking at it from a property point of view. The other point that was made is that while there are surveyors available to the District Council, that surveyor time is limited, that capacity is limited and they already were allocated to a number of priority initiatives. So it will be extremely difficult to pursue that within the time allowed, which would mean in itself that even if it were pursued, the individuals would need to move out of Jutland Place, would need to go into a short-term respite provision, which could only be more or potentially be problematic for the individuals having to move once and then having to move again, as opposed to moving to a ready-made property, supportive living setting, just the once and then that be their permanent home. So in terms of thinking about the smooth and safe transfer, which is something we're responsible for, it's preferable for the individuals to move just once rather than twice or even three times. But certainly Runnymede were really not keen on having to convert a property which absolutely could serve a different purpose without refurbishment. Thank you. And a final question. I note the 31st of July will soon be upon us and you talked about four out of the six occupants of Jutland Place having been found alternative accommodation that's suitable for them that they are happy with, satisfied with. That's good to hear. What plans are in place, because I'm concerned for the other two residents, because we really don't have long, to find a viable and long-term settled accommodation, thank you. Yeah, no, absolutely, very good question. So the fifth person we're fully expecting, there's a meeting this week, next week, which is expected to resolve the situation for that fifth person. It does depend what that person decides, what their family decides, but all the signs are from the family, from the individual, is that we will have resolved that person's own arrangements within the next two weeks. The sixth person, the news about the property where there was the planning permission query, that sixth person, they were holding out in the hope that the planning permission would be granted for the property, it has now been refused. So with that news, it might be that they're able now to look at the options that are on the table. They were thinking that they only wanted to look at the options once they knew the outcome of the planning. We've just had that and that's happening. Thank you. And can I ask if the service are keeping up a very regular and close communication with the residents of Jutland Place and obviously their family members and carers, I'm appreciating the anxiety this situation has brought about. So my understanding is yes they are. I mean clearly they work with the individuals on a daily basis at Jutland Place, the individuals are there, they have a good relationship with Sam who is the registered manager there. They're also in very close contact, regular contact, frequent contact with our own social care practitioners so there's a lot of support going to the individuals and also to their families from both Mencap as the care and support provider but also from ourselves in terms of making sure that the new arrangements, there's a smooth transfer to the new arrangements for those where that's definitive and that there's close contact with the remaining two to make sure that we can get those arrangements to be definitive and move on to the smooth transfer as soon as possible. Okay that's the end of my questions to yourself Anna. I don't have any questions for yourself Councillor Jenkins. I think the concerns I did have have been addressed in this particular session so I just wanted actually to just come back I think on a couple of points that have been raised in as much as this situation I fully understand and appreciate the anxiety that this has brought about and will continue to bring about until all occupants of Jutland Place are accommodated and settled in their new accommodation and I am pleased to hear and will continue to keep a close eye on this in my position as cabinet member to see that residents are settled in advance of the 31st of July and that everybody is supported through this process given the huge challenges it can present for individuals and people and I understand this from a personal perspective as well having had a very close relative of mine find themselves in a similar position and what I would say to anybody residents and occupants of Jutland House and the carers and their family members that adult social care is here to support them through the process to make sure that their interests come first the residents of Jutland Place and they will be supported in that resettlement process so I'm very grateful Councillor Jenkins for you bringing this forward and for the work that you've done on this particular item as well given that it is in your ward I'm grateful also to the commissioning officers for the work that they've done to invest in resolving this situation I shall be keeping a close eye on it and I note the response that has been drafted to the petition and I thank the lead petitioners I said and the officers for their attendance and their presentations today and that will bring the formal business of this meeting to a close thank you. Thank you. [end of transcript] [ Silence ]