Transcript

good afternoon councillors and officers welcome to this multi-location meeting of the community's home and regeneration scrutiny committee fire alarm there is no fire alarm test planned today therefore if anyone is joining remotely from a council building should the alarm sound it will not be a test and you should follow the appropriate fire exit signs webcast meetings before proceedings today I have to remind everyone present that the proceedings of today's meeting are being filmed live and may be kept on the council's internet site as an archive record of the meeting the images and sound recording may also be used for training purposes within the council microphone and translation units members and guests who have joined through zoom who wish to receive simultaneous translation from Welsh to English should click on the interpreter symbol at the bottom of the screen and then choose English members of the public watching the meeting via the English language webcast will receive Welsh to English simultaneous translation automatically if remote members lose connection during the live meeting please make every attempt to reconnect however the meeting will continue so long as its core it can I ask members and officers present in a meeting today to please introduce yourself before you speak furthermore but I ask the committee members who are in attendance remotely to have their cameras on for the duration of the meeting and not just when speaking apologies for absence yes one from councillor Betts and Jones and one from councillor who shepherds and and council Kim broom is subbing for councillor Jones deck relations personal interest included any party whips is sealed in relation to any agenda item you all have responsibility under the code of conduct to verbally declare any personal interests you may have in relation to any item appearing on the agenda today please ensure that you clearly indicate which agenda item you have a personal interest in and specific nature of the interest to be disclosed you will also need to repeat your declaration of personal interest at the commencement of the relevant agenda item and indicate whether or not you will be withdrawing from the meeting during consideration of that item I must also remind members that party whips are not allowed at scrutiny if there is one in operation it must be declared on members subject to the whip will not be allowed to vote on any issues subject to a whip can any members please use the raise your hand function if you wish to declare an interest or if a party whip has been issued in relation to any agenda item before you today Russell Russell. Good morning chair. It's councillor Russell Sparks from commanding town west to clear potential conflict of interest on to number five eleven and twelve because I own a swimming lessons business and it may be that we could discuss leisure services and swimming lessons so but I've been given dispensation from the standards committee to attend but just not if it becomes relevant thank you Thank You Russell. Item three public questions I confirm no public questions have been received. Item four emergency social housing allocation update report on the operation of new allocation policy monitoring this is page 5 of the agenda pack this month's report provides an update on the operation of the council's emergency social housing allocation policy developed by the committee's task and finish group I will now call on councillor Linda Evans cabinet member with responsibility for housing to present the report Thank You councillor Evans. Thank you very much chair this is an update as the chair mentioned on the emergency housing allocations policy that we adopted back in February 2023 following an unprecedented situation that authorities in Wales and housing associations and registered landlords were facing as the need for social housing increased considerably and residents are finding it hard to keep things together this process has been of benefit for us during this period but it's a temporary policy as well and as you all know only to just remind you eating a new pot going through that process that is out there I hope that and on it if you go to the council's website find it not a lot of time at the end of this month so in that consultation it is important it's quite simple to you how many homes have been and this is you will see that cent of our homes have been matched and the room will be the last now because we are in the process of bringing does it run quick run through if there are any questions I am more than happy to answer them and the offices are here as well yeah thank you Linda for your report do we have any members of any questions to put to council Evans Martin Dio Cadera is council Martin power from in the report I think it's clear that I'm running is really reap the benefits that we as a wider committee anticipated and that's really good news and it's great that moves are underway to adopt see on a permanent basis I've got one small question and it relates been in the pack and I've got reference to a graph and I'm not very good at graphs I may have read it wrong but it talks about the number of unsuitable matches decline which is great but if I'm reading the graph on page six of the last period thank you the number of unsuitable matches period they've been going up again and got a query over that Jonathan what to add something we've had quite a few the policy at the moment if you're a homeless case you it's if we give you a reasonable offer that and if you refuse a reasonable offer that we think is a reasonable offer from what we understand of the needs of that household then they are not homeless anymore so therefore if they refuse it they're not homeless when it comes to band B the policy at the moment states that they are allowed to refuse to reasonable offers so that if they think it's unreasonable they can refuse it twice and that's what's been happening here it's the band B that have been so as we move forward for the new policy we do need to look a look at it but we need to look at it on both sides we need to look at it is it reasonable to give them two refusals if they want to refuse twice or is it we need to look at the other side how many people if they don't get that to offer would be wanting to move on again because what we've selected to them they're not happy with so I said a person the man happiest so so if a person isn't happy and what we have chosen does that then make the register go round around around and the same people back on it all the time are people who do refuse twice and then choose the home that they are happy with and we are happy with does that make the tenancy then more sustainable tenancy that we need to do as well which one pays off in the long term because there's nothing worse than people not happy in the tenancy that where they are so it works two ways but at the moment it's they have to they can refuse twice so therefore that does push the figures up I don't know if somebody else the fact that you have something that Jonathan Morgan head of housing and public protection just about what Linda said it's sort of a dichotomy between the homelessness legislation which allowed sort of one suitable offer as Linda said of accommodation and if you refuse a suitable offer then clearly it seemed to be that you're not homeless and then the policy currently says around a normal offer of accommodation where you've got two reasonable offers and I think if we do the research that Linda has alluded to as part of the development of the of the new policy then obviously scrutiny and then ultimately cabinet then can consider which is the best way whether you were like them both or you keep it as it is because you know the fact that people if they've got the ability to refuse sure reasonable offers it may sustain that tenancy for longer if they get the right property but so it's a balance but we bring that evidence as part of the report on the new policy to the to the meeting in in July thank you Thank You councillors if there are no more questions is someone prepared to move the report thank you Mike is there a seconder to the motion okay is there anyone against sorry any abstentions we take a vote on it all those four yeah sorry all those four if there is you know all for it we're not going to do the abstentions and against all right thank you yep okay thanks I was lost there I was thinking of something else item 5 revenue and capital budget monitoring report 20 23 24 this is page 19 of the agenda pack this report provides an update on the latest budgetary position as at the 29th of February 2024 in respect of the 20 23 24 financial year and allows members to undertake their monitoring role of the revenue and capital budgets of the council's housing regeneration planning and leisure services divisions that fall within this remit now call on mr. Dylan Tom Dylan Jones group accountants thank you so you need to redeclare your interest if the arcadero the policies also that I've had to turn my camera off my internet connections unstable yes I have a swimming lessons business and it may be that it comes up in the item that we discuss but I've been given dispensation by the standards committee Thank You chair agenda item five provides an update on the late on the budget reposition at the end of February 2024 the projection for the revenue budgets and understand of a hundred and eighty one thousand pounds more significant pressures in the leisure services area the last three years has seen a significant disruption to many of the services in the leisure portfolio last year's overspend for leisure was six hundred and sixteen thousand pounds and the current year showing that the user numbers and income are improved these pressures are partially offset by under spends relating to additional planning application income and staff vacancies in the place and sustainability service and staff vacancies within the regeneration digital and policy service appendix a shows the budgets projections and variances at the high level forecasted and dispense totaling four hundred ninety thousand pounds in the regeneration digital and policy and place and sustainability divisions are offset by projected overspends in the leisure and recreation and council fund housing divisions of three hundred nine thousand pounds appendix B shows the budget and projections for the areas with the most significant variances the full range of services are shown in appendix C appendix D outlines the housing revenue account which is forecasting an overspend of 46,000 pounds there are significant variances across a number of budget heads but the greatest pressures relate to repairs and maintenance prime premises and supplies and services primarily made up of legal and compensation costs these are offset by predicted and dispense related to vacant posts capital financing direct revenue financing rank the Lincoln and interest on cash balances moving on to capital budget monitoring in appendix E the projection is an under spend of 38 million pounds of this 22 million pounds relates to the Swansea Bay City region projects the summary is shown in appendix E and the details in appendix F to I appendix J outlines the progress in delivering the proposed efficiencies for this year 666 K is currently considered to be deliverable with unmet targets totaling 190,000 pounds thank you darling thank you for that report do members have any questions on the report it's put to a Dylan or any other cabinet members in attendance if you do can you please refer to the relevant page within document thank you counselors is anyone prepared to move at the report we received our proposed purpose best on any other recommendations Terry Terry you propose another a seconder please yeah I'm closing yes Terry thank you seconder yes thank you Martin will members show that they're in favor of the motion thank you counselors moving on to item number six communities homes and regeneration scrutiny committee task and finish report adaptations policy this is on page 49 of the gender pack this report provides committee with the findings of its task and finish groups established to examine the operation of the come the councils adaptation service within the community departments housing property and strategic projects division in relation to both the current backlog of work and processes within a view of improving service and delivery of both public and contract holders stroke in brackets tenants a call now on consultant Eric and the chair of task and finish to present the report thank you I'm pleased to present the report of the community's home and regeneration scrutiny committee's task and finish group established by the committee in September 2023 to undertake a review on the operation of the council's adaptation service within the community departments housing property and strategic projects division to examine both the current backlog of work and processes with a view to improving service delivery a review of the existing operation to be important to address the address the backlog and to identify means of improving service delivery both the public and contract holders tenants as part of the duties placed on local authorities under the housing grant construction and regeneration act 1996 and the Children's Act 1989 to provide adaptations to those who qualify for it to say and the increasing number of adaptation of applications being received set against financial and staffing resources the review also covered adaptations undertaken to the council's own housing stock I hope the recommendations we have made which I will cover in a little bit more detail in a minute will deliver improvements to the operation of the adoption service and achieve a reduction of the current backlog of work I am very grateful to my fellow members of this group for their input and commitment during the review those members being council Betts and Jones council can how council Martin Paul Freeman council Russell Sparks and Councillor Hugh Shepperson if you'd like to turn to page 78 I believe of the report I'll just go through in a little bit more detail I appear to have lost the page I wanted sorry so the actual conclusions and recommendations the conclusions the adaptation service was facing increased demand for disabled facilities grants resulting in a backlog of applications awaiting processing to the current staffing resources were contributing to the backlog of applications but that a business case is being repaired a pre prepared for additional staff the removal of means testing for medium scales DFGs had resulted in an increased demand for grants and as in reintroduction could reduce both the level of that demand and resultant call on diminishing resources and the council's cabinet should consider reintroducing means testing for medium scale applications if adopted that would result in a loss of WG grant from funding of a hundred and twenty two thousand seven hundred and sixty three pounds however based on the last two years data on repeat applicants because of the removal means testing this would result in a net increase in budget of a hundred and sixty four thousand seven hundred and one pounds per year the terms of the award of DFG to a foster child placed within command and share by the local authority should be served by another local authority should be clearly set out and detailed within the council's adaptions policy number five the terms of the requirement of repayment of a DFG and any exceptions thereto should be clearly set out within the council's adaptions policy number six the current traffic light system used to assess the feasibility of a council property for adaptations should be replaced with a system based on meeting individuals need if the circumstances warranted as set out within option three of this report the while we demand for DFGs was of concern the decision of the prioritization of grants awards based on need should be undertaken by the council's professional officers our recommendations were that number one the council's cabinet be requested to consider reintroducing means testing for medium scale disabled facility grants to that the amended draft adaptations policy attaches appendix one to the report incorporating the group suggested amendments for change be adopted subject to the cabinet's consideration recommendation of number one above number three grant repayment conditions on all DFGs over five thousand pounds if the property is sold within ten years of completion of the adaption with only the following exceptions by natural hardship moving for employment reasons or moving into residential care number four adaptations for foster children placed in command and share by another local authority will only be considered if the criteria in the policy are met and number five that staffing is reviewed to ensure adequate resources are available to deal with the ongoing high demand of the service those are our recommendations like that to pass it back to the committee for completion thank you chair thank you for your report are there any questions you'd like to put to Derek I think I've got a list but so we go with Terry first of all Thank You Terry Thank You chair on on the conclusions and recommendations on item three page 31 on conclusion item three the removal of means testing for medium scale disabled facilities grants has resulted in an increase in demand for grants and that this reintroduction could reduce both the level of the demand and the resultant call on diminishing resources the council's cabinet should consider reintroducing means testing for medium scale applications if adopted this would result in a loss of West government grant funding of hundred twenty two thousand seven hundred sixty three however based on the last two years did on repeat applications because the removal of the means test is this would result in a net increase in budget of hundred sixty four thousand per year can somebody explain to me how we would benefit on this and is it a like a loss adjustment to the applications and would be a guarantee on this increase or would it just carry on as the norm the other question got is it only hundred twenty two thousand that we've had from Granta from the West Government grant who'd like to answer that question I am Jonathan Fern head of housing property and strategic projects yes the net effect we anticipate from the removal of means testing also the reintroduction of means testing is based upon a deterrent effect that we would anticipate from people who currently make their application for a disabled facilities grant actually no longer coming forward for those for those grants so prior to relaxing the means testing approach there were a lot less applications we've seen quite a significant increase and we've actually tracked a number of individuals who previously hadn't made an application or withdrawn their application who would now come forward since means testing was taken away so we we do believe that there would be the level of impact that set out in the report based on the last two years experience of course that isn't definitive because that would depend on each year and the number of applications but we believe that the deterrent effect from reintroducing means testing for these categories would rigid reduce the demand and what we're seeing at the moment in the service is a significant increase in adaptation and disabled facilities grants applications and this is one of the means we believe would would reduce that demand in terms of the grant grant money provided for whilst government there was a specific additional grant provided which is our 121,000 for those authorities that chose to remove the means test some authorities chose not to do that and didn't receive that grants and there are other other grants from various sources including the health board and various other places for the support of disabled facilities grants and we believe that even if that grants specifically for that means testing at element is is no longer available we believe that would still be that financial benefit and reduction in the amount of adaptations it's a tough call and I can understand the confusion it can cause but yeah as long as our labor costs don't increase because of means testing if I'm thinking in the right on the right level and direction yeah that's fine thank you thank you Jonathan thank you I've got my list Thank You chair thank you Derek for the overview of the reports and the conclusions and recommendations of the task and finish group is great to be on the group it was a really interesting piece of work I've got a question which we raised in discussions in the task and finish group as we're doing the work and it relates to conclusion 2 and recommendation 5 so we noted that there were significant staffing pressures in the service and we heard about a lot of people doing overtime that not being sustainable so something I think we all agreed needed to be done to make sure that the staffing base was as robust as it could be recognize of course that in addressing that they're going to be financial implications for the council in a time of great pressure anyway and I wondered whether there was any way in which the council could approach formerly the health board to discuss the possibility of their financial contribution to any increased staffing costs given that the benefits of the recommendations if they're implemented will be to the whole system in terms of prevention keeping people at home and out of hospital so I wonder if that is a discussion that would be worth having to share the burden of the additional costs thank you Jonathan thanks yeah yes we are we are constantly in discussion with the health board about opportunities for additional funding not just in relation to staffing but generally to support assisting people from coming out of hospital where adaptations are a requirement for them to come back into their own their own home in terms of the specific question around staffing the initial report that we're developing in terms of supporting the staffing structure would actually deal with the overtime and and transfer current overtime costs into mainstream staffing costs so that would in that sense not be an additional cost it would just be recirculating the same funding however there are opportunities further to to increase the staffing structure to turn around these cases more more frequently and that's something we can certainly discuss both internally within the council's resources but also with the health board as you suggest Thank You chair just wanted to come back on one point I thought it was more from what the comments Jonathan's made more about trying to target our limited resources to those who really need it and that's what it means testing is there as opposed to a deterrence effect I mean I I'm a little bit concerned about the use of the word I think the our most vulnerable already find it difficult to access services at times and whilst I understand the the the idea I think is isn't it far more crucial that we focus on targeting these applications and these adaptations pardon me to properties that and and residents that that need it and need that support and that that that's what we're trying to do with our limited resources I just like to clarify that please Thank You chair thank you thank you chair thank you for the question yes in fact yes you are correct Councillor sparks the the intention is to divert the effort in providing those disabled facilities grants to those who cannot afford to do that themselves so the impact the deterrent effect that I refer to is on on those who previously have been undertaking their own adaptations from their own resources to continue to do that rather than to come in as as part of the the council's funded service so the the people who fall below that means test threshold would still be entitled to to those adaptations so the focus is is on diverting those resources towards those who don't have their own means to undertake those works and therefore reduce the overall number of adaptations as a result thank you thank you sir thank you thank you counselors if there are no more questions is someone prepared to move sorry I did have my hand up I just wanted to ask a question around the cost benefit analysis because there is additional costing involved with actually doing means testing on the on all applicants if that's what's being considered and will that be above the savings that we make I understand that there's the the amount of demand but I also understand that a lot of people actually have to do a lot of these adaptations themselves because of the time that it's taken to actually get to get these in place to allow them to come home yes in terms of the means testing process that there is some administration involved in that it is quite a complex formula but the analysis from the work undertaken prior to the removal of means testing suggests that the figures set out in the reports are achievable in terms of a net increase in finance available and also potentially a reduction in that demand to be focused upon those that are not able to fund the work themselves and Councillor groom is also correct to highlight that in some cases because of the length of time it takes to be able to respond to the high level of requests for adaptations a number of people do make the choice to undertake the work themselves and again this is all part of what we're looking at trying to improve to focus the attention upon those where they're not able to undertake that work themselves and reduce the overall number to be able to turn around those applications more quickly think about Jonathan do you know when they're doing these adaptations themselves they breach in their tenancy agreement am I right the the adaptations in our own council stock we will undertake those works within our resources the focus on the means testing is in relation to disabled facilities grants which are for non council tenants so that would be for privately owned property thank you Councillors if there are no more questions is someone prepared to move the reports to be adopted thank you Ken is there a second to the motion under thank you members please show that you're in favor of the motion all in favor thank you moving on to an agenda item number seven communities homes and regeneration scrutiny committee annual report for 2024-25 this is on page 97 the agenda pack the report has been prepared in order to comply with article 6.2 of the council's constitution which states that the scrutiny committee must prepare an annual report given an account of the committee's activities over the previous year the report provides an overview of the community scrutiny committee's work during 2023 Minister of the Year as the current chair of committee I have no observations on the report councillor can be as chair of committee for the period of 2023 and well done February 2024 is there anything you would like to add to the report thank you nothing to add to the report I would like to just briefly thank the committee I know we'll see the outgoing chair but I would like to thank all everybody on the committee is one of my favorite committees I have to say thoroughly enjoyable I'd like to thank yourself as well being on the committee also I'd like to thank our officer Kevin who's done a tremendous amount of job actually organizing trips and getting us out there to actually see what's going on I think I've been really useful so I'd like that minute it please that's possible I just generally thank everybody the the report itself is fairly self-explanatory but thank you very much indeed Thank You Derek thank you very kind words and yes we do need the cabin in the back room here do members have any questions on the report if so could you please raise your virtual hand or in the chamber thank you concerts is anyone prepared to move the report to be received and propose any other recommendations comes allowed you need to win and is that a second is the motion please raise your virtual hand Terry thank you Terry will all members please show by using the raise your hand function that you are in favor of the motion unanimous the motions adopted item number eight communities homes and regeneration scrutiny committee forward work plan 2024 2025 this is on page 121 of the gender pack this report sets out the committee's current draft forward work plan for the 2024-25 minuscule year and has been produced in accordance with the requirements of article 6.2 of the council's corporate procedure rules while the report sets out the draft plan members should be aware it is a living document and will it evolve as the year progresses to incorporate items from both the cabinets forward work plan and items requested by the committee do members have any comments they would like to make on the plan I do have a list of some so we go first with Kim okay Thank You chair it's just a question around voids and as a scrutiny committee what we could do to support the the issue with the length of time bringing some of these properties back into use who's prepared to answer the question Jonathan certainly I can answer that yes we've been focusing on voids because back in May 2022 we'd reached a peak of over 400 voids at any one time being on let and with a significant turnaround time as at the end of the financial year that's come down significantly to under 180 so we've now got at any one time based on that front end of financial year points an additional two more than 250 homes available compared with the the peak situation in 2022 so we've seen a significant improvement and that's also as well as releasing more than 250 homes to tenants that's also generated an addition close to an additional million pound a year rent at that level as well so there's been a significant improvement since and since that's time and if the committee would like we can provide a monitoring report and a report on progress and what we've achieved to date and where we hope to improve further going forward if that's something you'd like on your forward work plan thank you for that Jonathan I think we'd welcome that favor of that yes I think so thank you Jonathan for offering that service thank you and you have a question it's related to what Kim brought up and I think I've mentioned it before is to do with the fact that obviously works are undertaken by framework contractors however it appears that some of them are either under resourced or for whatever reason and so I'm just wondering is that something this looked at when the contracts are awarded the ability to deliver by the contractor and also I think I've suggested this before possibly looking to subcontract some of the relevant trades work out to local contractors or contractors that are they are able to assist in speeding up the process Jonathan thank you chair yes we we do have a range of contractors under our framework and part of the issue has been in terms of improving the turnaround times has been the availability of contractors we've also as part of the improvement approach we've reintroduced a range of our in-house team and at the moment our analysis is showing that our in-house team in doing comparable voids are turning around voids in half the time of contractors so that's an area that we're looking to improve further in many cases contractors will accept the work and then we'll not necessarily be in attendance and and diligently pursue the works required to that property and we'll balance that work with other works that they're undertaking for us or all of the clients so yes we we try and encourage and contract manage that but it's it has proven difficult to for contractors to turn those those around as quickly as we would like so we're trying various methods to improve that and we are at the moment evaluating our next property framework the property works framework that will be in place from the 1st of August with a new range of contractors in place and we've we've encouraged and had road shows to encourage local contractors to bid for that and that evaluation is due to complete shortly so we will be able to hopefully have a range of different and existing contractors working on a different basis that we will be contract managing differently and also continue to review the balance of in-house and external contractor work in voids and the rest of our housing maintenance work. Thank you Jonathan. Terry. Thank you chair. Jonathan, question for Jonathan. What what have we got for quality assurance on the work being done and how do we monitor that that the standards of the work has been met? Have you got any difficulties in that area? So we we have a we have a range of officers who are managing contractors and the and the workload and we go through a rigorous process of verifying that works completed have been done in a satisfactory way. On occasions some work may fail but those contractors are then brought in at their cost to remedy any issues and again we are looking towards the next framework to try and improve how that contract management works with with penalty clauses etc built into the new framework which will hopefully make that task easier than currently. Okay thank you Jonathan. It was nice to hear. Thank you. Thank you Jonathan. Thank you Terry. I was gonna bring that up as well so thank you. Okay is there anybody prepared to move the adoption of 2023 2024 forward work plan? Terry thank you. Seconder. Thank you Mike. Will all members please show by using the raise your hand function that you are in favor of adopting the report? Yes carried. Carried thank you. Moving on to item number nine. To sign as a correct record the minutes of the meeting held on the 16th of April 2024. This is page 127 of the agenda pack. The committee is being asked to approve as a correct record the minutes of the meeting held on the 16th of April 2024. Is there anybody prepared to move at the minutes be adopted? Martin. Is there a seconder to the motion? Brian. Thank you Brian. Will all members please show that the minutes be adopted as a correct record? Carries. Thank you. Item number ten. Reports relating to the following items are not for publication as they contain exempt information as defined in paragraph 12 of part 4 of the Sherwood 12a to the local government act 1972 as amended by the local government access to information variation wheels order 2207 as they contain information relating to a particular individual. If the following the applicant application of the public interest test the committee results pursuant to the act to consider these items in private. The public will be excluded from the meeting during such consideration. Does the committee result consider these items in private? Can I have please have a proposer and a seconder? Martin. Seconder. Will all members show by raising your hands that you're happy to receive the reports in private? Thank you. Can I ask officers to end the webcast please?