Transcript

Good morning, Councillors and Officers. Welcome to the place of the Centennial Genome Change Scripting Committee this morning. I'd like you to stand just for a minute to remember all the fallen in the Second World War as today's 4,000 people who lost their lives yesterday and all the people who lost their lives during the Second World War on a deep day today. Thank you. We will remember them. There are no fire alarms planned today. Therefore, anyone joining from a Council building should have an alarm sound. It will not be a test and you should follow the prior access signs. For the purposes of today, I have to remind everyone present that the procedures of today's meetings are being filmed live and kept in the Council Internet site, active recording meetings and images sound recorded and also used for training purposes within the Council. Members and guests attending via Zoom requiring simulation translation from the Welsh and English should choose English from the interrupting button on their screen. Members visiting present should choose English or microphone unit. Those who are attendance in the Chamber should use the transfer device or microphone provided. Members of the public watching the meeting via English language webcast will receive Welsh/English translation automatically. If remote members lose connections during the live meeting, please make every attempt to reconnect to wherever a meeting will continue as long as the meeting is recorded. I should explain that if any members of the public joining the meeting today are considered being filmed and those images appear on the Council Internet site, active record of the meeting and may also be used for training purposes within the Council. The procedures and personal information necessary for performance of tasks carried out to the public interest of the Council and the next official authority listed in the Council. I ask that officers present the meeting today please introduce yourselves and then we could ask the committee members to have their cameras on for their duration of the meeting and just when speaking. Apologies for absence. I've got an apology for Alice Thomas and Kim is in, Councillor Shirley Godfrey-Coles is giving apologies and Councillor Peter Cooper is in hospital so I think we should send Peter Cooper a letter. The fact that he is in hospital I hope he gets well soon. Item number two, Declaration of Personal Interest. If you have a response under the Code of Conduct we will declare any personal interest you have in relation to any item on the agenda today. Please ensure that it clearly indicates which agenda items to have personal interest, specific nature of interest to be disclosed. You also need to repeat the Declaration of Personal Interest in commencement or relevant agenda item indicating where you are not or you will not be joined from the meeting to consideration of that item. I must also remind members that party web is not allowed. I ask if there is one operation that must be declared and the members subject to the web will not be allowed to vote when the issue is subject to the web. Members, please raise your hand if you wish to declare interest or if the party web has been issued, if there is any agenda item before you today. Then why could I remind committee members who are in tenors remotely to have their cameras on for their duration of the meeting, not just for speaking. Anybody declare interest? Anybody? No? No note of interest. Item number three, public questions. I confirm that there are no public questions being received. Then we move on. Item number four, receive a Capital Budget Monitor Report, page 5, under Agenda Park, we have a revised update and it is published on 29 February 2024. I would like to hand over now to Councillor Alan Lenny who will present the report. Alan, thank you. Thank you very much, Chair. This agenda item gives an update on the latest budgetary position as at 29 February 2024 in respect of the services under the remit of the Place Sustainability and Climate Change Scrutiny Committee. Turning to Appendix A on page 9, you will see a summary of the divisional out turns with the overall estimated net position showing an overspend of 1.2, with over half of that being due to the pay award for 23/24 being more. Members will be aware that the NJC pay award is agreed nationally, and since there's a correlation between pay settlements and inflation rates, it's been very difficult if not impossible to allocate an accurate sum in the budget to meet the pay awards. Hopefully the situation will be a little bit more stable in this financial year. Now, additional details. The Waste and Environmental Services Division is forecasting a 720,000 overspend due to a 862,000-pound pressure from the delivery of the interim phase of the waste strategy as a result of contingent measures put in place. To remind members briefly, in January last year, we rolled out the new curbside collection service for black bags every three weeks, a new glass collection service and a weekly collection of bags. As this was a new strategy, additional vehicle and staffing resources were required for longer than initially planned. In addition, blue bag treatment costs have reduced following the major fire that come recycling facility at Nantacost from three years ago. However, when the planned pound recycling plant development at Nantacost will substantially reduce costs for this council into next year and coming years. Grounds and Cleansing are reporting a 176,000-pound overspend, again mainly due to the differing budgets following the pay award and efficiencies not being met. These pressures are offset by a 297,000-pound underspend of staff costs, the alignment review ongoing and partier savings from the head of service post. There is also a 69,000-pound underspend on green waste collection as a result of an increased customer base. Highways and Transportation are forecasting an overspend of just under £300,000 for the year. The main variance is a £842,000 overspend on school transport due to increased costs that will subsequently escalate the tendered luxury provision of home to school transport. As I previously reported, operators are continuing to experience driver shortages, global supply chain shortages for vehicles and parts and a period of very high fuel prices. This overspend is partly offset by staff costs and increased income. The Service Improvement and Transformation Division is forecasting an overspend of 160,000, again mainly due to the pay award in building cleaning. For information for members, Appendix B on pages 10 to the main variances per division, Appendix C on pages 13 to 15 provides detailed information on the out-turn. The estimated capital out-turn as at the end of February is in Appendix D on page 17 with detailed information on the capital projects on pages 8 to 22. The 23 and 24 lists the county-wide decarbonisation and climate change response measures at February. Appendix G on page 20 is a savings monitoring report which gives an analysis of the progress in delivering the proposed efficiencies for 2023-24. Of the total efficiencies of 1.6 million to be delivered in 2023-24, currently considered this report it would be possible to deliver 1.1 million with an unmet target of almost half a million pounds. In conclusion chair, the divisions have worked towards during the remainder of the financial year covered in the report or of course in 2024-25. Thank you. Yeah, thank you for that. I do think that, you know, we are at the stage now with the budgets that are, you know, the savings that we've got to do in 2024-25. You know, it's more important how to try and make these savings in these budgets and members here we discussed it earlier on about having more information on the areas where the overspends are rather than because we, you know, we've got information on nearly everything in the budget, you know, lines of it but where the things are really, really important and we make those savings there should be more information for our members here to scrutinize those decisions. So I do know that can go back to officers who look at it. We're not asking for every line to have information but just the key places where we as a committee here need to, you know, to have more information to try and help to make sure that we are making those savings because it's going to get harder and even if there is a change of government I still think that the next two years isn't going to be easy and if you like it or not it's going to take a couple of years before things hopefully get better but the next two years I think we are in for a rough time and I appreciate all the work that you are doing and I think the members here would like a bit more information on overspends or wherever they are. Right, thank you. Now then we'll move on. I'm going to ask, I'm going to go through it now. I know members have got questions on various things so we'll start going through then we'll start on page 9, page

1. I think members have got some on page 10, 11. Yeah, page 10, Chairman. There is an item there which refers to closed landfill sites and the increasing costs and there's a variation there forecasted of 320,000 on these closed landfill sites and I'm wondering is there, because when you're looking at these closed landfill sites they are going to be causing a problem, if problem is the right word, for many years to come when you look at the issue of leachate coming from these sites and you're looking at methane gas generation so I do appreciate that these sites have got to be looked after for many years to come but you can see that there's increased electricity costs in taking care of these sites and I'm just wondering is there any way of reducing these costs and when I say that I'm thinking particularly of the the comb site in Nantic House where they've actually got a wind turbine there which obviously not only offsets the cost but actually produces electricity for the grid so you know this is something that's not going to go away for many years Chairman and I'm just wondering if there is the possibility of mitigation that would reduce these sort of costs and I gave an example with comb environmental. Thank you Chairman. Anyone to answer that one? I know in this instance the officers concerned with looking after the closed landfill sites are looking into the electricity costs to see if they can be reduced but these are for closed landfill sites and wouldn't be the Nantic House one then. Right Edward do you want to say anything? Yeah that's been answered by the officer thank you. Right I go on your car parking um we had a report a few months ago at the beginning of the year about car parking charges and how the way that we were going to look at all this. Is there any more information on that you know because uh are you come to a decision on on income and expenditure? There's a report coming forward to cabinet um in the next month or so. Oh so there's one on the way. Right any other members on uh questions on on this page? No yeah I do I do believe um it's I think it's page 10 Chairman and it's referring to uh pooled vehicles yeah and um it the the note there says that um um it's there's there's a 13 000 variation there it says under utilization of pooled vehicles um and I can't understand why this is the case Chairman because the whole concept of having pooled vehicles is to reduce traveling costs amongst members of staff so there is something going wrong that these vehicles aren't being used to their full potential thereby reducing costs on the on the County Council and I'm just wondering if the officers have any comments to make as to why these vehicles are not being utilized to their full potential thereby saving costs for the authority? Yeah well that's a good point because at the end of the day we are in this situation where we do need to make savings and making sure that they are they should be able to 100 percent not you know and you know of the capacity to make sure that you know that that is in this area who wants to answer that one I don't know your name the officer in the back and the Governor's review across all corporate pool cars we're looking at different utilization and making them service specific to make the most of the utilization so reducing bookings that aren't being taken up so the utilization is is to address the end of the year we've noticed that people are booking the cars not using them so we can't rebook so we're making them service specific they'll be battery utilized we're just coming to the end of that review now. Thank you with that is that are you happy with that Colin? Right well if it's under review then we we would appreciate when that review was completed that something comes back to the committee to indicate you know what steps have been taken to we've got to make savings now we cannot you know whether because of the overall budgets we got to yeah thank you for bringing that up Colin. I will move on then item 12 anything there page 12 chairman yeah it's under the the heading of licensing and the forecast expenditure 402,000 and the issue here is underachievement of income and again this this is something that we're obviously looking at for every penny basically and the explanation is income target does not reflect the number of licensable businesses in the county well the inference here is that we don't know how many licensable businesses there are in the county otherwise they could give us a precise figure and you wouldn't have this this variation so I'm just wondering chairman why isn't this figure be targeted to the the number of licensed premises that we've got in the the county at this moment in time right and then of course you know and the licensing as well I know that we command ensure in particular has got a problem with illegal dog breeders but that's that's another side issue chairman yeah on the dog breeding we are just finished group will be reporting on that you know by the end of the year and you know yeah we're going into depth on that one but on the licensing Ali do you want to comment on that yeah sorry I was just going to point out that Jonathan is here to to answer that question online right Jonathan you're online can you answer that question yeah certainly I do already there Jonathan Morgan head housing and public protection in relation to Councillor Evans's points clearly we do know the number of licensing premises within the county for for for for licensed premises dog breeding except and we can certainly provide that information to you I think the issue here is is twofold one is the number of license license premises are reducing particularly you mentioned dog breeding they have got slightly less over the over the years and we can produce we've got about 70 licensed breeders in the county at the moment when that was over 80 maybe 12 18 months ago but as I said we can provide the detailed information the other issue we've got comes with Evans is that some of this is based on sort of validated income year on year which we need to re-look at now based on the reduction in license licenseable premises that's then obviously affecting the income target so but I'm more than happy to provide the the detail that you've asked for but that's the reason for the overspend is is around the validated income thanks okay yeah yeah yeah there we are thank you for that uh Kim Kim Kim yeah sorry just coming just coming in um this is more an observation rather than a rather than a question um with highways uh and transportation there's a significant um difference between the there it's uh forecasted in December to February um and that's due to um getting money from whilst government for some um works on roads that had um had slipped had fallen and also from um recovery uh from the the actual we've had a very very mild winter are we confident that there is enough in the budget to be able to for the future year now to be able to maintain our in in the state that they they need to be rather than it being continually downgraded degraded right let's answer that well it's fairly fairly simple we are not getting enough money for our road network west ministers down to come and live down to us you know our budgets have been restricted so i can't be confident i i agree with you they were going around the community as i am now the last couple of weeks i i realized that i've been to some some wards some members wards the last couple of weeks and i realize how bad the roads are getting not only roads but payments we are going into a crisis of you know and and because of the winters we're having and the rain we're having and you can see the difference and i'm shocked in some of the roads i've seen already in the last couple of weeks and you are right that today's have not we have got a serious problem and it's getting worse and worse and you know that it's going to be a challenge whoever wins the general election is going to be a huge challenge for future years because the less more money comes into our ways we will go back to our office and car days where there will be no roads anyway and that's all bad things are getting in some wards and um and so yeah i agree totally that right then thank you for bringing that up kim uh item number 11 any any members want to bring anything on 11 and then we'll move on to 12 13 page 13 chairman um under the heading of service improvement and transformation uh it's waste services and i'm looking at the variation there of 862 000 and this was this was mentioned in fenice by a counselor alan lenny because the note that note of explanation for this variation of 862 000 merely states contingency measure put in place well that doesn't mean anything to anybody looking at this report without knowing the the situation now counselor lenny did highlight certain issues within the department but this comes back to the point that you made earlier chairman in that when it comes to huge issues like this this is just short of a million pounds chairman yeah so um you know if we could have a slightly more detailed explanation in the notes section then i'm sure that that would be uh you know it would be an improvement on what we've we've got in front of us now so i feel that in situations like this where it just says contingency measures put in place is not sufficient and we would appreciate chairman slightly more detail not i'm not talking about pages worth but slightly more detail than just saying contingency measures put in place so it's just a comment chairman and one that you've already highlighted right thank you yeah not everything it's just that where as community now this is where we have got big concerns or where members can ask more questions on on any big overspends or where it doesn't uh because it's that's what our role is is to to hold you to account on on what you know try and get on to the budget that is overspent alan yeah thank you i appreciate makes especially in the context you made earlier a chair it is obviously difficult to expand on each one but i thought in that instance that i should expand as recognized by colin to explain um that i don't need to go over it again of course but i did explain in in my introduction why um we have this that's overspent and i hope that that would that be that kind of detail you'd be looking for perhaps yes those kind of areas yeah yeah but you know you were looking at 2030 or then we just wear the pacific you know really the way we need to really concentrate on as the saying goes the devil is in the details yeah yeah yeah that's right yeah allen yeah i was just going to elaborate on that i think following uh conversations we had about the function of scrutiny and what you're allowed to do of course you get these quarterly and i guess it's a duty on spotting those patterns and then requesting or maybe a report if if if this keeps cropping up every quarter then you've got by right i know a more in-depth thing for you should you wish yeah yeah that's fine no i agree we can do that and but yeah just where these bigger women spends are this look a bit more on the report and we'll be quite happy without them sorry if i could go back chair yeah if when members see the agenda yeah they can ask questions some days before the meeting if they do approach a cabinet member or an officer to ask for greater detail perhaps that can be furnished yeah can be done as well yeah if people want more more information right then we run um yeah 14 15 and then we're on page 16 right where we are 16 yeah 16 uh tell me uh right i got one yeah it's how we value path now the delays in this now i'm getting reports that uh that some of these landowners have been uh you know holding the council to ransom on some of this work uh and some of that double or treble costs or are being waiting for you know to get more for for the land what is the cost of the land uh purchase or you know in this 18 million or what is the land cost for for the uh the value for for the for the project and how many of these landowners don't live in the commander because i'm having reports that a lot of these don't even live in wales chair that information would be uh sensitive because i'm the questions all the time about this and i think some of this should be put especially on right i know you can't name people but at the end of the day repairs need to know you know where the money is going and who is having this money but i've been having reports that it's going outside the county not only outside the county but going outside the country as well yes yeah yes yeah is there any figures on or what is the land cost of the purchase of the land is there any information get the information not uh you know it's a report coming to the cabinet shortly on on the right the cycle path something that i'd like to you know not maybe naming anybody but what was the cost of all the land purchases if i may touch briefly on process and time scale is not so long ago since the compulsory purchase orders were were considered you may have seen the paper the local paper three pages of them as i recall a few months ago and um obviously it's been a very um complex process and i i share your frustration perhaps that um with with the speed of events but uh these processes have to be have to be gone through really and um it is you know very ambitious scheme and everything's got to be right and as uh edward has mentioned there will be a report coming shortly to capitol is the funding secure because i'm afraid if you listen to uh one party in the general election they're gonna level up money uh for national service is that uh so is this money is definitely secure because of the delays so there's no problem with any of this funding if there's a you know if whoever wins the election the funding is secure yeah so it is secure there we are right any other questions on it no everybody happy right move on um you're on the next one 17 18 page 17 german yeah come in uh there is an item there that refers to trey bedard reservoir um now i can recall for many years there has always been an item on trey bedard reservoir there seems to be you know maintenance issues going on at this location for i don't know how many years and there's another 87 000 um apparently uh that's required again and i'm i'm just wondering uh chairman what is the current situation with trey bedard reservoir because it seems to me that this is a continuous drain on the coffers of the county council there always seems to be some issue or other with this reservoir and i'm just wondering you know what is the the long-term future or whatever of this of this facility because it seems that um you know it will be forever spending money on this uh on this structure let me answer that yeah okay second so roger griffith i'm head of place and sustainability so this is a long-term problem that we have with that um reservoir there is a leak which i'm sure the council will be aware of um it's not simple to to to resolve and we have commissioned an expert review to give us a number of options for that long-term um uh restitution of the of the problem and that will come forward to us but it is a long-term problem that is really difficult to solve where exactly that leak is coming from and how we might avert that leak in the most cost effective way right and that's in that case chairman can we be updated at some data too you know what's going on with the reservoir yeah absolutely we have a report or something on that in due course call in from your laptop 18 19 20. yeah page 20 appendix e uh chairman um amerford highway infrastructure i can see that um you know there is some slippage here to 24 25 and a commitment to sandy roadworks does this mean basically that we are robbing peter to pay paul in the sense that money that should be allocated for amerford highway infrastructure pardon me and we know that there are some ambitious plans for the the center of amerford which are time sensitive and i'm just wondering therefore if money is taken away from this project for whatever's going on in sandy road i don't i don't know what that is that this could prejudice what is happening in in amerford and you know i i'm sitting on the committee for regenerating amford so and obviously i'm quite quite concerned as to you know why why this would be the case or potentially could be the case thank you chairman anybody answer not because i picked this up as well and you know it's a small like them but as we know amover is left behind on so many things this is similar uh can somebody answer this sorry chair um we're just checking protocol as well whether or not we're allowed to talk about projects especially in this period now and use this get either email to councilor colin evans a local member on if this money has been moved we can definitely talk on right or that if we can do that then that's fine to talk about projects that's fine colin you'll get an uncertain email on it right yes yes that's well i mean i hope that you'd be kept in the loop as well chairman because this affects the whole of the yamen valley yeah that's fine thank you for bringing that up right we'll move on next one anyone 21 22 23 24 25 and then we're on we're on 20 sorry uh so what number is that thank you and i've got two questions one is um on page uh well i seem to be on page 18 we'll go back to 18 what does fcrm mean i'm not sure not sure i thought it was related to the 10 towns but it seems to be um as well there so i just wondered what it means so i can answer that check risk management strategy that we have yes any other questions i don't know i think it was the report that came through right sorry i completely for the uh an acronym there and the other one was about civil civil costs um civil law um and that happened to be on page 15 um and there isn't much in from there there's a blank line so i don't know exactly what that is about um does it relate to dog droppings for example because i have a question on that if it does anybody can answer that one you picked that up johnson morgan yeah i'll get the details around around trading standards but i'll get the detail to you um by a separate email if that's okay yeah that's fine thank you we're back on page 26 i've got a question on parking services introduction of second camera enforcement now as that i think has that now been done because i i'm really frustrated with uh parking outside schools not only my own school but schools all over command is that now been resolved because it is a big problem of people parking on zigzag lines it is i don't know what it is if it's raining you can have five six seven cars parking on zigzag lines outside schools so as it's now been resolved that can we make sure that we get this camera out to catch this these people who are blatantly putting our children at risk and and it is a big problem not only in my my schooling on it but i think it's i pick it up with where members all over the council so is american uh give us update on on this second car camera this is important i think it's already been reported to us that it's on on delivery and it's an electric vehicle and has it been delivered yet yeah anybody nobody knows yet obviously we're just waiting for that to come back from the specialist company right so it is on the way then it's immediate department to put something out that this is coming because some people are really beyond you know i mean and i mean they pack in such dangerous places and they do not you know take any consideration of children and you know if you get one child get knocked down because of some of these parents you know but it's the same one is doing it all the time so i i i hope that this is going to be now but i think we need to do some after the election do some publicity on it right thank you very much for that and we'll now move on to the next one i want to bust my pager now right then anymore on off target ones policy and management off target any i'm going to bring up anything else there no let me move on then to the next one just up to page on the neck carry on then we'll move up to page 31 then and then we're on that's it 32 and right somebody can move the report somebody move vice chairs move in somebody second right all in favor anybody against extensions no are those abstentions no they're not right and thank you for that and then we move on them to energy efficiency generation historic i was in lights um who's taking that uh thank you chair this topic has been passed to this committee from the community script in the committee suggesting that we uh look at what's being done around energy efficiency in historic buildings especially the housing stock now the topic of energy generation and energy efficiency in historic homes is an extremely pertinent issue in meeting the net zero targets for wales and one in three of all domestic homes are known as historic which means built before 1919 and that equates to around half a million homes in wales currently there is a lack of skill and knowledge around how historic buildings need to be treated and if not the majority are repaired and maintained using possibly inappropriate materials which not only makes them and actually serves to significantly damage their structure there are a number of misconceptions about the negative impact uh the historic housing stock plays on meeting net zero uh come out is here possibly in command some say it's more efficient to knock down old buildings than and put new uh and put new uh more efficient ones in their place historic buildings are necessarily cold drafty moldy and hard to heat things is a real hindrance to installing energy efficiency and energy generation measures measures in the county and as an authority zero gender and those working in the field and conservation recognize the potential role what they can draft supplementary planning guidance is making its way else now and will be out for public consultation in coming weeks for command and shirt within stakeholders the results are a fully costed spatial plan that identifies the changes needed to the local energy system and the built environment here in command and it dovetails into a rule and eventually a national plan it's home and i'm sure this will be a document that you will want to consider as part of your forward use and emissions and sets out these over incremental times around the 2030 target of about 68 percent reduction to 2035 the net zero so this is changes needed the built environment and action resulting will need to consider the historic nature of a large proportion of the buildings in the county as you can imagine when they were built in 90 status was not part of the brief how we sent which is part of the place and sustainability team and it's an uk-wide authority on the appropriate care prepared addition of old buildings which makes command a lead in this area delivering training and education to support the construction industry colleges homeowners if they were creditors and the potential to develop this further as a center of excellence and training those working in stock buildings to have great needs the materials and how they interact with the environment many renewable and green technologies but possibly the biggest challenge facing the brings is the issue of insulation current government back necessarily of historic buildings in fact inappropriate modern insulation technology may in fact have a negative detrimental on some historic buildings should the committee be interested as to visit uh um at the tawi center and see being developed there and get a deeper understanding to maintain a historic of the original construction we have nell here from any technical questions chair so perhaps i'd better leave the um yeah in case i might be deemed to be uh that's fine alan for giving your report tonight thank you yeah yeah we i i would welcome a visit to to the center and show my other members uh you know what this is a challenge for the as we know we've got so many uh historic buildings not only you know every ward does you know we've got quite a number in my ward and we but we've got them all through the county and so this is going to be a challenge no doubt over the next 20 25 30 years to reach uh and to save on the environment um so i welcome the report and there's a lot of technical things in yeah i'm not on them but neil you've got questions on on the report so come in yes thank you chair and thanks to allad as well for the introduction yeah it's it's a great report well done for robert and nell for putting it together um it's some great data i mean it's extremely pertinent i think we're all quite surprised that one in three are regarded as historic pre-1919 and i'm surprised that anyone has suggested knocking down old buildings and building new ones but i can understand why they would but obviously that's the question um but but as the report makes there's a lot of improvements we can make to to historic buildings that are in keeping with the structures you know with with breathable insulation or what have you um and low slow heat for solid walls is very compatible with with heat pumps but my worry about the current report and the current way we do things is that we're 1.33 of buildings are listed and obviously they're very very important that we keep them exactly as they are and that we improve them in a very sympathetic way as with all buildings but the conservation areas it's it's a massive 13 percent of buildings isn't it and that takes in a lot of our towns and with article forward removes the permitted development in conservation areas particularly on the roof line so the built heritage heritage officer will be consulted in the event of planning permission being asked and and she or he have to make sure that the improvements proposed have to preserve or enhance the conservation area well you know i think it'd be hard to argue that um solar panels heat pumps ev charging points secondary glazing improve or enhance or preserve a conservation area but i think we should acknowledge there's a climate emergency as well so i'd like i'd like the guidance as we go forward and look forward to the report this coming acknowledges the urgency of the climate emergency and that's if at all possible it's not it's not enough that they're allowed to make planning applications for solar panels that the the um the the development officer will look sympathetically with climate change in mind and think about pvs heat pumps ev charge point secondary glazing and not judge the 13 percent of buildings in conservation areas with the same uh rules as the 1.3 percent of buildings that are listed so i'd like some reassurance on that please that's what we're looking for thank you hello thank you for your for your uh comments um we've got 29 conservation areas in uh comarthenshire and three of them have uh article fours related to developments on uh the property and on the properties um within those areas there is a distinction um between domestic the uh domestic properties and commercial properties so in conservation areas without article fours um we have uh no restrictions on putting solar panels on roofs even the front roofs front elevations of roofs um so that that's that's a significant proportion where you don't have to apply for planning permission it's permitted development to put a solar panel on the front uh elevation of your your roof the article for um you have to apply for planning permission and there have been cases in clandeverry where um planning permission has been um not not been successful on on a domestic property i think that in many ways just shows how special the built heritage in in clandeverry is and it was selected some 15 years ago for uh holding a townscape heritage initiative project there which took a significant amount of money into the town both londevry and langadog and the article four was a prerequisite of that funding so it's it's a it's a challenging one because obviously times have changed even since 15 years ago but i think that the inherent value in our built heritage has to to be considered but but um i i do i do clearly hear um what what's being said here um and um yeah we do we do have to comply with the legislation that's how we make those decisions but i you know uh in the reports it says about the rock you know we know that a lot of the buildings are in a bad way some buildings are not all buildings the cost of art have we made any any costings on how much this will cost because you know a lot of this work will be a challenge with in the climate we're in and so you know have we done any figures on how we we take this forward because it's i think that's the challenge as well you know to to make these buildings more efficient energy efficient when they're in a bad state before you even do that so so so i think those are the challenges uh you know and how do we see that going forward on on funding funding is the you know we can serve notices and all these other things but it's getting the funding to do a lot of this work is there anything on on funding i could pick that up chair so ross mobility so um the first time ever we will have a local area energy plan and that's something that the local area energy plan seeks to do that's in draft go through the governance process at the moment there are some very big ballpark costs in that report and in that plan of the whole energy cost for the entirety of the county i don't have figure for disaggregated for for built heritage or for historic houses and how much that might cost and that's a piece of work that we might do um following the publication most of that is about engagement facilitating and the change that we need to see with local communities and there'll be a lot of work over the next two years to do that so it's a piece of work that may flow out of that local area energy plan right now i don't have a cost for our historic houses and how much that would cost across the county to bring them up to modern day standards for net zero yeah well that's i think that's going to be the challenge i think the financial side of it right any other members any questions on the report no i can't see any hands up i think we're gonna be yeah that's that's fine then we'll we'll thank you for the report and hopefully we'll get further reports in due course how we take this forward very important that we do uh you know make this work and the challenges are going to be there so can i have somebody move that they accept the report uh do you want to come in yeah where we are yeah to visit yeah to make a visit and put it in the diary so later on in the year you will be we'll make a visit yeah yeah maybe uh September maybe uh right um somebody move the report i'll move chairman yeah we'll call him second all in favor anybody against abstentions no quite carried enormously right thank you and then we move on and we move on to uh item number six forward work plan for 24 25 members read that quite happy with that is any other any questions on that i do have a question yeah do you want to come in um yeah i'm just um next meeting the 16th of july we've got the equestrian strategy now this has been delayed a number of times over a number of years um are we confident that that report will be coming i didn't hear that that noise came through sorry it was a question around um on the 16th of july the next meeting yeah we've got the equestrian strategy right now that's been deferred a number of times over a number of years um are we confident that will actually be coming forward on the 16th of july somebody answer that hopefully it will be there i won't be here but that's another matter yeah thank you that's the answer it will be here and if right right any other questions on that report somebody move the report vice chair it's been a second dorian all in favor and anybody against extensions carried and then we move on to item seven uh for coming items um yes on the 16th they're all there that's going to be brought up i will have to do my apologies for that meeting i'm i'm on holiday so vice chair will be taking on meeting thank you vice chair and um can somebody move then that report all in favor a second right anybody against and uh extensions okay that's carried and then just item number eight to approve the the meeting on the 22nd of april 2024 and can somebody move uh the minutes are well in the circles vice chair all in favor of the minutes anybody uh against abstentions no carried enormously sorry i need to abstain i was like you are there okay yeah thank you that will be recorded and that is it and so thank you for giving your time up and so i declare the meeting closed closed.