Transcript

to a meeting of the people performance and development committee here at Woodhatch on Monday the 22nd of July. There is just a few items, short items on the public agenda before we move into part two. But if we start with that, there's no members of the public here, so I don't need to read out the full fire alarm details, but as you know, if there is a fire alarm, then please exit and go up to the car park. Item one then, apologies for absence. No apologies, but Fiona White is stepping in for Will Foster, as Will was recently elected as a Member of Parliament, or Woking. I saw him the other day up in London, and I think a little bit sort of rabbits in the head like, but seemed to be enjoying himself anyway, so many congratulations to him. Thank you for substituting for him. Item two, the minutes of the previous meeting was held on the 9th of April 2024. Are there any comments on those minutes? Otherwise, I'll take those as agreed. Thank you very much. Item three, does any member have any interest to declare in relation to – sorry. Well, I was moving on, but – they know it's moved till the next meeting. Page two, I think it was. I typed it down, but whether that is where – to the right of the minutes. Yes, it says forward work from item six, witnesses, key points for the discussion. Chairman says it would be beneficial to – oh, sorry – best report on the number of interns employed or contracted, consultants. Chairman added that it would be helpful also to include the data on the venture – oh, it's not that one. But there is somewhere there, because I've actually printed it off and put it on the thing members highlighted. Perhaps it was in the discussion. Well, I think the answer is no. If the question was have they been invited yet, the answer will be they will be when the date for the meeting has been set. Yeah. Was it that one? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes, no, they're definitely yes. Point three. Yes, yeah, no, they will be – there will be – we're going to have that at the September meeting and they will be invited to join. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But they haven't yet? No. Okay. No. Want to get it in their diary before they – We will indeed. – have other pressing commitments? We will indeed. I'm sure they'll prioritise this thing. Okay, so then, yes, declarations of interest. Does any member have any interest in the items on this agenda? No, thank you. Item four, there was a question submitted by Councillor Eva Kington and a response has been sent to you. Do you have any supplementary – Yeah, yeah. Sorry. Yeah, it's on. And would equally want to hear ideas. I know that's what it says there and so today I will commit to saying to Terrence Herbert that this Council needs to have a leaner senior team structure and that the balance of numbers of directors managing frontline services compared to internal organisational services needs to be addressed. Would you make that commitment as well? Yes. There's a whole piece of work that is underway around looking at the restructuring of a number of areas within the organisation. As I think you've also had some exchanges with the interim Head of Pay Service around the building in some flexibility into – certainly at the executive director level but I think there's an absolute recognition that there needs to be – this organisation needs to be right-sized so there will be some further announcements around that over the coming weeks. But in fairness to Terrence Herbert, as the incoming Chief Executive, he arrives on 19 August so we're not that far away now, thank goodness, and it's absolutely on his radar and his list to pick up. Thank you. Good, thank you. Item 5 then, the action review. Is there anything you want to flag up on that? No, just to say that the first report that's mentioned on here under No. A623 which is about agency workers is on the forward plan for September's meeting and the LGA peer review findings report again is on the PPDC committee agenda for 9 September. Anything on that? Will that mean that any financial data that was in the original report that was coming here will be updated to include the month, the two months or whatever it is that – Yes, it will. So we will include data from the whole of the last financial year and the first quarter of the current financial year, so to the end of June. We won't have obviously reached the end of the following quarter so up to the end of quarter one of 24/25 will be the most recent data that we have. So when does the first quarter finish? So the first quarter is ending on 30 June 2024. So April 1 to 30 June. Thank you. And then the next item is the forward work program. And there are some standing items on there. Anybody have anything to add or add to that? It now needs to add the one that's been moved. Yes, there's two reports to be added to the September meeting. You're quite right. The first is the update on the LGA peer quality review and the second is the trans plus equality policy, which is coming to this committee as well. Can I just ask, when those reports first come to this committee, it's almost that's it. And if we don't like, we have to amend it. So which politicians would have seen the report or the, you know, the code or the program before it comes to us? Is the first sighting by a Councillor member, cabinet member when they come to this committee? No. So Denise Turner-Stuart is the deputy leader myself, have an agenda planning meeting with the officers where we would normally see draft reports at that stage. And then we wouldn't normally we wouldn't be amending the reports. We would simply agree whether or not those reports would go forward on the agenda. The particular one around the transgender policy, I made a commitment to the other group leaders, because they had raised it with me, that they would have the opportunity to see that the transgender policy for comment, that again, not to amend the draft report, but to feed into that process. And then they can decide whether or not they attend the PPDC when the full committee discusses. I'm not trying to probe too deeply on a barrow setting. I know what it is to be a Chairman, because obviously I was one episode of your borough council and I had a Chairman's report. But there would be times when I would say, I don't think I can take that report to the committee, because my feeling is it's going to hit the buffers or I think you need to address that. Am I right in thinking that the transgender policy was actually issued before and made public before it in a sense got that seal of approval? The original transgender policy was published and across the organisation and it was then flagged up by some members their concerns around part of that policy, which is why then it was agreed by PPDC that we would review it. I can't honestly remember whether or not this committee saw the original policy. No. No. So I don't think that was seen by any members before it was published. Okay. My third and last part, and I won't necessarily ask you to make a comment on it, the officer code is quite clear about no surprises or indeed being sensitive to information. And on a topic such as a transgender policy which is going out to all staff, maybe the officers, the team, whoever, whatever, might have considered that that actually before it went out would be something that would come to members and I suppose in a sense we don't get much that is controversial in that sense. I mean it's controversial in a sense because maybe the pay thing and all this, or it has to be confidential. But I think there may be lessons learned there about whether certain things that someone might think is just oh, it's something going out. I'll just maybe make that point. Just saying the officer code. Yeah, I think it's probably fair to add that there's been perhaps a discussion, if not a disagreement, as to whether or not that policy actually forms part of the staff, member staff's terms and conditions and therefore is a matter for the head of paid service rather than for members. I'll leave it at that. But anyway, we have got to the point where this committee will be reviewing the policy. All I would say is that even if that were the case, the head of paid service ought to be aware that what this council does, agreed or not be, by members can have a reaction that members then have to deal with. So I think that is worth it. For me it falls in the same category as my commitment that any change of policy of this council goes to the select committee for review before it goes on to cabinet and council. And I think probably it could be argued that that fell into that same category. So anyway, I think we've got there in the end. And we'll have a good conversation next meeting. OK, I think that then brings us to the end of the public agenda. So at that point I'll close this meeting. Thank you very much.