Transcript

Good afternoon, everybody, and welcome to the meeting of the cabinet of Surrey County Council at Woodhatch on the 23rd of July, 2024. There are no members of the public here, so I, at this stage at least, so I won't read out the file arrangements, but we're not expecting a file alarm. So if we are, then please exit through the door at the end of the room. In line with our guidance on social media, happy for you to use social media, provided it doesn't disturb the meeting itself. Remind everybody, of course, that this meeting is being webcast. And then, just usual to remind you to please use your microphone. We do have people, some people online with us, members who will be asking questions, and we won't be able to hear you unless you use your speaker. Thank you. Right, so we have got a really full agenda today, so I'm going to just press on. Starting, though, with those cabinet members that are here, and apologies for absence. There is one apology for absence, and that is from Paul Deeds, my deputy cabinet member. And then the usual arrangement, please, if you can introduce yourself and your portfolio area, starting with Claire Curran. Yes, thank you, leader. Good afternoon. My name is Claire Curran. I'm the cabinet member for children, families, and lifelong learning. Thank you. David Lewis. Thank you, leader. Good afternoon. I'm David Lewis. I'm the cabinet member for finance and resources. Denise Turner-Stewart. Thank you, leader. Good afternoon. Denise Turner-Stewart, cabinet member for customer and communities and deputy leader. Thank you. Jonathan Hully. Thank you. Good afternoon, leader. Jonathan Hully, deputy cabinet member, strategic highways. Thank you. Thank you very much. Kevin Deenas. Yes, good afternoon. Kevin Deenas, cabinet member for fire and rescue and resilience. And Mark Nuti. Good afternoon, leader. Mark Nuti, cabinet member for health and well-being. Thank you. Marissa Heath. I'm Marissa Heath, cabinet member for environment. Thank you. Matt Furness. Afternoon. Matt Furness, cabinet member for highways transport and economic growth. And Maureen Attiwell. Good afternoon, everybody. Maureen Attiwell, deputy cabinet member for children, families and lifelong learning. Thank you. Natalie Bramhall. Good afternoon. Natalie Bramhall, cabinet member for property waste and infrastructure. Thank you. Sinead Mooney. Good afternoon. Sinead Mooney, cabinet member for adult social care. And lastly, Steve Backs. Thank you, leader. Steve Backs, deputy cabinet member for highways. Good. Thank you very much. Just to remind members of the public, at least, if we do have a vote and I will ask cabinet members to raise their hands, the deputy cabinet members in accordance with our constitution don't actually have a vote. So if they don't put their hand up, it will be for that reason. Okay. Thank you. So there are minutes of the previous meeting which was held on the 25th of June, 2024. Those have been circulated. Can I take it those are agreed? Agreed. Thank you. Item 3, declarations of interest. Does any member have any interest to declare in relation to the items on today's agenda? No, I can't see any hands going up. Thank you very much. Item 4, there are no procedural matters but I'm going to read out a statement in relation to primary school places in Rygate. So in February, 2024, cabinet considered a report on the provision of primary school places in the planning area of Rygate and agreed upon two actions. Firstly, the creation of an education working group to explore school reorganization possibilities in the Rygate area. Secondly, to pursue the determination of the live planning application to relocate Rygate primary junior school to wood hatch place to establish if this is a viable option. The working group includes school leaders and educational professionals and also a small reference group for parents and carers to ensure their views are also factored into plans. The group has met on a number of occasions and we now expect the group to continue its work through into the start of the autumn term. It was also recommended by cabinet to pursue the determination of the planning application for a new school building for Rygate primary junior school on here, the wood hatch site. Officers have now submitted additional planning documentation to address the issues raised by the planning committee. That application will be subject to public consultation and details of that can be found on the Surrey County Council website. Once this work is fully completed, findings from both the education working group and the decision of the planning committee will be brought back to cabinet to consider all conclusions and decide next steps and that is likely to be in the autumn. Thank you. We'll move then to item 4A which are members questions. There are eight questions. We have Catherine Bart, one of the questions and in fact Jonathan Essex online. Catherine, we do have a very busy agenda so could I ask if you have any questions, supplemental questions, they can be very short and we'll see whether we can answer those today or give you a written answer. Thank you. Sure. Thank you. I haven't got, the only question I have is one for Councillor Furness in relation to the collisions and I will email him with it because I don't think, because I'm sure he will have to come back to me in writing having consulted with officers so I'll leave it at that. Thank you very much. Thank you Catherine. That's very helpful. Matt will respond to that as soon as he's got your further question. And the same, Jonathan. Thank you. I just have a brief follow up on the library question. Redhall Library used to be the largest library in the area that people from the surrounding area as well as Redhall might come to for a greater offer. The temporary library is quite small. Just like assurance, the new temporary library will be larger so it does provide a stepping stone from the current facility back to the full restored refurbished library in its previous location. And that this will be properly signed in a really inspiring way such that the interim process leads to more people joining the library and a greater take up rather than the potential loss of library users with a smaller interim facility. Thanks. Denise, that's you. Thank you, leader. I mean, I would give every assurance that both the land and property team and the library service are working very closely together to ensure continuity of provision and the new location will be communicated very shortly once it's been agreed. But as I say, I'll give you every assurance that the provision for the public will be maintained. Thank you. Okay. Thank you very much, Jonathan. Thank you, Catherine. There were no questions from the public. There are no petitions and no representations received on reports to be considered in private, which takes us to item five, reports from select committee's task groups and other committees of the council. And we have four of those. And I'll take two of them now and two of them when we get on to the substantive cabinet report, if that's okay. But the first one was a report from the select committee in relation to the D and B, DB&I task group. And I think, Stephen McCormack, you're going to speak to this? Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, leader. Just to introduce the DB&I task group report to cabinet, some mentions to be made first, if I might. Ross and them services helped to kick start the task and finish group. Phil Hall, the independent expert who provided so much welcome information and provided an objective view. All officers and witnesses who attended to provide evidence and input into the task and finish group, Lee, Anna and David Lewis, my sincere thanks. My fellow task group members, David, Edward, John and Bob provided input questions, check and challenge. And my thanks to Bob for being Bob, an excellent select committee chair and a great sounding board. A huge thanks to Claire and Jake who pulled this report together, and without them I wouldn't be here. They pulled all of the different strands together. So the goal of the task and finish group was to review the DB&I program and to identify tangible deliverables that can be used in this organization and elsewhere to make improvements to future program and project delivery. I wanted to produce realistic recommendations that can be used whatever the size of the program or project, which I think has been done. Some of the recommendations you may look at and say, well, that's obvious. It is now, but at the time when you're focused on delivery, well, let's just say you may not be able to see the wood for the trees. The task and finish group was not meant to find a person or persons to blame for the delays or overspending in budget. However, if it did appear in the investigation work, it would have been firmly called out. I can say it wasn't the case. A combination of several factors contributed to the delays and overspend, which I believe the report illustrates. With hindsight and lessons learned, would it have been a different story? Maybe, but the crystal ball is still on back order, and we learn from experience, we change based on that experience, and we should get an improved outcome. Based on the many interviews and key lines of inquiry, I can say that all involved worked hard to deliver the program. These programs are immensely complex and an item to note that it has been delivered, it is in operation, it's running this organization, so well done to the program team, a huge effort. Thank you very much, Leda. Thank you very much, Stephen. As chair of that working group, we're very grateful to you for the work you put in and for the comprehensive report. I think David Lewis might just have a couple of comments to make as well. Yes, thank you, Leda. And just to say that on behalf of the Cabinet, we welcome the report. And again, I'd like to thank yourself, Stephen, and your team, Phil Hall, and the rest of the committee for the work that they did. I think that the report is very balanced. It recognizes the challenge faced by delivering a program of this scale, which, as the report says, is a once in a generation type project. So it does recognize the challenges of such a large project, but at the same time, it recognizes the achievements as well. And so I think it's a very balanced report. I think that there are 18 main recommendations, of which four are priority recommendations. And on behalf of the Cabinet, I'd like to say that we accept those recommendations, and you'll see in the attachment some more detailed feedback against each recommendation, which I know has been discussed and agreed with you in advance. So I think it's a really good piece of work. I think it's something that the Council overall will benefit from, and we do need to and will ensure that those lessons are fully embedded in future projects, not just IT projects, but future projects that we undertake. So thank you very much. Thank you, Dave. Thank you, Stephen. Bob, were you wanting to say something as well? Thank you, Lida. Simply to say that really in steering the committee, Steve McCormack did a fantastic job, and it was really important. And I think this is why the Cabinet have endorsed the report in the way that you have, that it was not about blaming people, not about actually much of the past. It was about what can we learn from the past when we have future acquisitions of IT, probably of whatever size. So I think the -- I like to think the select committee has done a very good job in that, and the credit really goes to Steve and indeed those officers who advised us. Thank you. Thank you, Bob. And indeed we will record our thanks to Stephen and the working group for the excellent piece of work. So thank you. The next report was from the Adult's Health Select Committee in relation specifically to the MindWorks and neurodevelopmental pathway. And I think Trevor Holt is chairman of that select committee. You were going to introduce it. Thank you. Thank you, Lida. And I would also add it was a joint committee with the Children and Families and Lifelong Learning Select Committee as well. And, yeah, quite correctly, it's about MindWorks and the neurodevelopmental pathway, and I had to practice to get that out in one go, so congratulations for your attempt. But what needs to be clearly understood by all really is the possession of neurodivergent traits is much more frequent than generally appreciated, and that children, young people, families, and adults can all be affected, often without it being identified. What we've seen with MindWorks and neurodevelopmental pathway is much higher volumes than were anticipated, and that has brought with it problems. It's a national problem, really, though, because it's a national approach to this, in fact. Processes we currently operate cannot cope with the volumes we now realize are involved. Reliance on the use of highly qualified specialists as the gatekeepers to resources will not suffice. They are far too few, and it takes far too long to recruit and train them if we're to actually address the demand we see today. We need to move to a very different model where parents can be locally supported and where individual help, support, and treatment, if appropriate, can all happen in advance with a formal diagnosis, and that needs concerted action by families, the community, schools, the NHS, local authorities, and government to work together in a system-wide approach. Our recommendations are in relation to transformation and how we actually change from one model to a different community-based approach. I'm therefore asking Cabinet to use every opportunity to lobby government, because it's clearly going to need resources and change in schools and education and all those things as well. But we need to focus our resources on bringing about change in how neurodiversity is handled in the story, and I'm very pleased to see in the response to our recommendation some really strong, effective actions are proposed. So I look forward to a time where society as a whole recognizes the issues the neurodivergent face, gives them appropriate help and support, and celebrates as well the different ways of thinking that they actually bring to us and the positives that come with that. Thank you very much, Trevor. Claire, did you want to respond, please? Yes, I think it was very clear at the meeting of the two select committees that there were a great deal of frustration felt by schools, by families, by young people relating to the neurodevelopmental pathway. And although the assessment service isn't being delivered by this council, but we understand the impact the delays are having on those families and on those schools, and how important it is for children to get the service that they need from their wider support systems, perhaps even more important at the moment, which does include our own services and in our schools. I completely concur with what Trevor has said, and I know that MindWorks has responded to the specific recommendations that were made, and that there is a plan really to try to right-size the -- to address the difficulties in the system and collectively for us all to work for a better system for the future. Thank you, Lida. Thank you. We also have Fiona Davison online as the chair of the Children's Family Lifelong Learning Select Committee. Fiona, did you want to speak to this item? Yes, I would like to. Thank you, Lida. I think it would be fair to say the select committee has a slightly different perspective, and what I'd like to do is to share that perspective with Cabinet. So, as the report to Cabinet states, parents in schools really do feel abandoned because MindWorks, which is the lead agency in Surrey, appears to have given up providing frontline neurodevelopmental screening and assessment and has effectively handed the responsibility over to schools without a proper transition or preparation. The Joint Committees and the Children's and Families Select Committee in particular recognises that the MindWorks consortium has been overwhelmed by requests for assessment, for diagnosis and treatment, but the response from MindWorks has not just been disappointing but unacceptable. It cannot be acceptable to simply hand the issue to schools without agreement or detailed preparation. In September 23, with little warning, the neurodiversity pathway was closed to referrals. The reason given at the time was that resources needed to be deployed on diagnosis and treatment, and it was expected to reopen on the 1st of December, but this didn't happen. At the end of March, a new assessment and referral pathway was unveiled. This offered schools a one-hour session per month to discuss a maximum of two pupils. The pathway was subsequently updated to allow parents and carers of children and young people not on a school roll to self-refer, following a rather complex pre-assessment schedule. Aside from MindWorks' inability to deal with a significant increase in demand, which is understandable, the rationale for this new way of working is that as a society, we need to move to a social model of adapting to the needs of those with neurodevelopmental conditions, and we do. And schools do need to play a part in making reasonable adjustments, but the social model will take time to nurture, grow, and embed. It represents a significant societal change. It won't happen overnight, and meantime, what happens to those children and young people in Surrey who are being currently denied diagnosis and treatment? Schools report that they are, and I quote from a survey of primary school heads, on their knees. Teachers are leaving the profession because they're unable to cope with the needs of children with very complex needs who are stranded in mainstream settings without access to diagnosis. The numbers of children not in school is rising. Many of these are refusing school or being kept at home by parents because of the concern that they just can't cope in a mainstream environment. The National Framework from NHS England states, For an undiagnosed autistic person, access to personal understanding, healthcare, education, social care, reasonable adjustments in the workplace, statutory protection from discrimination or benefits may be withheld. For these reasons, it's important that ICBs do not restrict or withhold access to an autism diagnosis by example, because locally, a decision has been made by health to conduct a needs-based assessment, and that's what's happening in Surrey. The Framework goes on to point out that barriers to a diagnosis increase a person's risk for poor outcomes in life. As a result, autistic people, and especially people without an intellectual disability, represent a significant proportion of the mental health inpatient population in England. Yet here in Surrey today, access to assessment, diagnosis and treatment is being rationed. Mindworks are promising a transformation strategy and plan in the autumn. I urge the cabinet member and leader to ensure that two ICBs in Surrey and Mindworks are reminded of their responsibilities as laid out by NHS England because currently, they appear to be ignoring them. Thank you. Thank you very much, Fiona. Claire, would you like to make some comments? Yes, thank you. Thank you, leader. Yes, I take the comments of Councillor Davidson on board, and I think what she has outlined is very much what the evidence that the committee heard, both from schools and from parents who were there. As she's aware, Mindworks has committed to prepare and publish a transformation plan which covers the actions that they're going to take with a timeline to improve their performance and be able to meet their responsibilities in order to be able to deal with the increased demand for those who are on the neurodevelopmental pathway. And I do think we have to wait to see that final plan before we can really judge what action will be taken. And you and I, leader, we have been in constant dialogue with Mindworks' leadership about the importance of delivering that -- not only producing a plan, but then also delivering against the plan to improve the experience of those who need the services that they provide. And we will continue to exert that pressure to make sure that the plan is produced and published, but then most importantly, that the actions identified in that plan are carried through. Thank you, leader. Yes, and just to endorse that, I mean, there have been a number of conversations, both with Mindworks and indeed with Surrey and Borders, and indeed conversations with government on a broader agenda, and indeed on SCN issues as well. So there's lots of activity, and I hope lots of action that we will see over the coming months to absolutely take on board your comments and concerns. And in my role as chair of the Integrated Care Partnership, at least for Surrey Heartlands, I will raise this, and we will also raise this at the Health and Wellbeing Board in the September meeting to make sure that there is clarity of understanding on the part of the health system of their obligations in the delivery of this. You have our assurance that we will continue to push hard to try and move this conversation forward, but more particularly to deliver improved outcomes for our children and families. Thank you. Thank you very much. We'll take, if that's okay, item C was the report from the Communities of Environment Highway Select Committee, we'll take that alongside item 9, which is the cabinet paper on the draft Vision Zero safety strategy, and also the report from Resources Select Committee, item D, which is to do with customer transformation, we'll move alongside item 8, if that's okay. So, we'll get to those quite quickly, actually. But item 6, then, which is decisions taken since the last cabinet meeting, of which there were two, which are for noting, unless any member wishes to speak to those. Okay, thank you. Item 7, then, was the highlight of a cabinet meeting, is the cabinet member of the month and, in particular, our very own Mark Newty, the cabinet member for health and wellbeing and public health. Over to you then, Mark. Thank you, Alina, for that wonderful introduction. Now, I presume you expect me to start off with something frivolous, like the fact that it's vanilla ice cream day today. But I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do it. But I will start by saying it's anti-boredom month, July, and I say that for a reason because it ties into a lot of what health and wellbeing is about. And I quote, This month encourages everyone from kids to adults to break free from the mundane and explore new activities that keep the mind and body active. And I think that sums up a lot of what we do in public health, and health generally is about getting people to be more active in their minds and in their bodies. So I'm not going to go through the report. As you've seen, it's quite comprehensive. There's seven pages, some wonderful photographs of me getting around this wonderful county and seeing some of the good work that goes on out there in and around our communities and, of course, the staff that work for public health and health in general. So I'll just use this opportunity to highlight a few things that are going on and a bit of advertising, really, around some of the good stuff that Surrey is doing. So around mental health, you'll all be aware of the Mental Health Improvement Fund. That's coming into its final phase now as we are partnering up with the Community Foundation for Surrey. They will be maximizing our investment with some match funding and the grant fund innovative projects helping mental health wellbeing across children and adults. We have seen a rise in measles across the country, not so much the county, fortunately, but we have been promoting the MMR vaccination. And in and around your divisions, if you do see people, it's great to encourage not only children but 19 to 25-year-olds, if they haven't had the vaccination, to make sure they get it. We don't want to see measles on the rise generally. There's a huge amount of work going on across public health in Surrey, which is a constant. We are constantly trying to look at preventing smoking. We still have over 100,000 people in Surrey that still do use cigarettes. It has had a slight increase since COVID, but hopefully it's starting to go down again now. But we are constantly trying to encourage people to look at other ways, maybe vaping, to look to reducing down their level of nicotine. Sexual health is an ongoing challenge in and around Surrey with the various universities we've got. We've got lots of communication that goes on and around supporting that. But again, I would welcome conversations in and around your areas to get away from the taboo that sexual health sometimes has around HIV, around some of the sexually transmitted infections. We don't, again, want to see that rise. There are lots of opportunities there for free contraception around your pharmacies, doctor surgeries, and you can get them from Surrey County Council as well. So there's lots of work going on around that. Substance abuse is, again, something that we see in Surrey, and again, we do a lot of work to try and help people with that. So if you do see anyone with any of these issues, there's always someone in and around Surrey who will be able to help them, whether it's our own staff directly or people that we actually contract to do that work for us. Some great stuff, great innovative work going on in and around that. We've just launched a new suicide prevention policy, which again, we're working with partners to try and reduce down the levels of suicide across the county. It's a good time to pinpoint you to the JSNA, or the Joint Strategic Needs Assessment. I know we do say this a lot, but there's a plethora of information around your communities there, be it across health, housing, finance, economics. There's lots and lots of information there which will help in our day-to-day work with some of this prevention. Lots of partnership work going on out there. We've recently gained a £5 million grant to set up some research with Surrey University, and last week we launched the Surrey Academic Health and Care Partnerships, which Surrey County Council are one of the main partners. That's going to be looking primarily at prevention and integration of care across Surrey, looking at innovation, technology, and new ways that we can help prevent and look after our residents. We've got EDI going on, lots of work going on within Surrey, but also externally, and we are expanding and looking at better ways of using our EIA's in determining and developing new strategy. That's our equality assessments to make sure that decisions we make have a positive impact on our residents, not a negative. I was very fortunate in June to be at the Carers' Week, our Surrey County Council Carers' Week. Co-chairs Lisa Woodruff-Truscott and Ron Cricha do a wonderful job looking after our staff carers' network, and it's great to have one day at least to celebrate the good work that our carers do as staff here, but we do obviously celebrate carers across Surrey. We're very fortunate to have probably over 200,000 people who are self-caring at home, whether it be that relatives, friends, or children. So without those, we'd have a lot more pressure on our services, so a huge thank you goes to them. On Monday, Monday the 29th of July, you could sign up for keeping living the life you want, and that's all about planning ahead. We plan for most of our lives. We plan our education, we plan our careers, we plan ahead to our retirement pensions, but what we don't tend to do is plan for those last few years of our life, and it's really important that we look ahead what care provision we may need, things like powers of attorney for our families to make that transition much easier for families, but also to not rely too heavily on some of the services that we provide. So if you do have elderly residents or even people who are just interested, there's an online presentation on Monday that you can sign up for, again provided by Surrey in association with Surrey Age UK, and it's really important that we start to have some of these conversations. So I'm not going to talk for much longer now. There's plenty in the report to go through, but what I will say, and I think we're pushing forward now, is perceptions and expectations need to change across the county. Services and care are there for those who really need it, but we need to change our direction to more prevention and early intervention. We need to reduce the need for care for the majority. We need to empower our communities and individuals to live better, healthier and longer lives. We need to be more resilient and more aware of the benefits of eating well and being more active, and sometimes it's as simple as that to keep us living our longer, better life. So all of this information is out there. What I would ask you all to do, and fellow councillors who are on the call, is to promote the services that we have in Surrey. We have some of the leading services across the country here in all of this work, but obviously the more we do in helping our residents in living better and stronger lives, the less reliance there will be on our service and the right people will get the right care when they need it. Thank you, leader. Thank you very much, Mark, and it's great to see you leading from the front in a healthy, active lifestyle. Would anybody like to make any comments? I mean, there is a lot of activity, lots of good things, and certainly that education piece, I think, to all of us in terms of how to live healthier lives is very welcome. Right, I think we probably will take away your report and digest if we haven't read it already, but thank you very much. So we will move on to item 8, which is a report in relation to customer transformation, and I think the work that the Select Committee did that we talked about earlier in terms of things, lessons learned in terms of running a major project is really relevant to this as well. So Denise, would you like to take it through? Thank you, leader. This report on customer transformation is hugely important for the council, for our residents, and our mission to ensure that no one is left behind. We are fully committed to optimizing the customer experience through the range of contact methods that our residents both choose and use. This is a key priority area where we need to invest in really radical transformation to meet our ambition to give our customers a seamless and satisfactory customer experience. This work builds on much of the wider work in our communities with our libraries and services and out in our towns and villages. Since the beginning of the year, this work has brought further insight to build our understanding of our customers and how we need to transform to meet their needs. The program is cross-cutting and touches every service and part of the council and will benefit not just all of our residents, but everybody we engage with. This is about providing the conditions for consistently good customer experience across all council services. This customer transformation program will do this by focusing on outcomes, encouraging self-service, using digital tools and adopting preventative measures, simplifying and streamlining processes. Designing this in our dynamic way means we'll be able to continuously learn and adapt to meet changing customer needs, giving us a model and ways of working that are fit for both now and the future. Our keen focus on accessibility and digital inclusion will ensure that the model is designed so that all customers are able to benefit from the improvements. Culture and behaviors are key to this, and the program will place significant focus on supporting our staff to be able to put themselves in the customer's shoes through a whole range of measures, from the developing customer champions network to training and development and ensuring that the customer voice is heard and reflected as part of service continuous improvement. The investment required is $11.3 million over four years. The request at this stage is for initial release of the first year's investment of $3.5 million with an in-principle agreement to the $11.3 million that is required. This will be subject to rigorous stage gate controls and governance that will evaluate progress and benefits before approving additional investment. The program recognizes the level of risk associated with the scale of this ambition and takes into account lessons learned, as you said, Lida, from recent significant transformation programs in undertaking in-depth work on both risk and benefit profiles. These will be reflected in further iterations of the business case which will be presented to the resources and performance select committee along with regular updates on progress. The work is underpinned by investment in digital and data as enablers for the program, and the transformation will lead to enhanced service quality, customer experience and outcomes, improved digital and online access to services, though importantly still providing a range of ways to access services so that everybody can benefit, and increased efficiency and reduced costs. Significant benefits are already being realized and this work will continue to be delivered at pace to transform the experience for all who interact and engage with us at Surrey County Council. I commend this report to the Cabinet and I would like to thank the officers who are working so hard to deliver this essential program and thank you also to the select committee for their very constructive and attentive input and their commitment to support this work as it progresses. Thank you. Thank you, Denise. Can I invite then Bob Hughes as chair of the resource and performance select committee who has had an opportunity to look at this paper for your comments. Thank you. Thank you very much, leader, and thank you to the deputy leader for your remarks about the committee and the setting the scene in terms of the enormity of this big transformation. It is a big undertaking and clearly absolutely needed if we're going to maintain our ability to contact customers and to deliver services to customers, otherwise we will get left behind. Therefore, I think the committee -- there were different views in the committee, I have to say, but I think the committee understood that this is an important matter for the council, which is why we've asked for updates as it goes along and that an updated business case is brought to the committee. I think this is partly because some members of the committee would have been more cautious about moving forward, and I think that is born of concerns about the significant IT acquisition and coming out of our report on the my Surrey acquisition. It will certainly be complicated and certainly expensive, and we will want to be assured that that money is being well spent and we will obviously report back to the cabinet were we to have any concerns going forward and obviously discuss it with the deputy leader as we go along. Thank you. Thank you. Denise, do you want to comment? Thank you, leader. I just wanted to reflect on the clear capabilities and competence within the select committee, and it's always a very useful and valuable support mechanism to have a member reference group or a task group allocated to work of this scale and magnitude. I know that Liz Mills, the executive director, has already been meeting with the member development group and the select committee chairs with your peers, so there is an absolute determination to make sure that every stakeholder and every input that is of value to this program is being incorporated at every step of the way. But again, I just wanted to say thank you very much for the time and commitment you've given to this project. Thank you. I think it's fair to say, as a cabinet, we share those concerns. It is a major project. As Denise has said, there will be those staging posts, so we will look to see what progress has been made, what value for money we have got, whether there are any risks in delivery. But at the end of the day, we need to modernize the way in which residents can engage with this organization. Some of the stuff is probably old hat to others, but putting in more artificial intelligence, trying to get that channel shift so that people can access the right information, they can report things 24 hours a day, they can have a chat box so some of this stuff can be picked up and so on. So I think we have 1,000 calls a day or something like that, I think, into our customer services area. And we do have a significant number of people in this county that are digitally excluded, 200,000 or so. So we have to make sure that there's suitable provision for them to access our services. But the vast majority of people nowadays are very happy to go through a website, at least in the first instance. So it's a broad-ranging project. We do have to make sure that we don't get scope creep from what we have set out to do. And I think it's very helpful that the Select Committee will be alongside the cabinets and officers in making sure that this is delivering absolutely what we want to deliver, which was a significantly improved customer experience at a reasonable cost and providing real value for money. So it's early days, but it's good that there is that engagement at the outset of the project. And we'll report back regularly through cabinet and through the Select Committee in terms of the progress that we're making. So thank you for your input and thank you, Denise. Does anybody else wish to make any comments in relation to that? If not, then there are five recommendations, which is broadly to approve the general approach and in principle 11.3 million investments. But that is subject to a staging post for the drawdown to prove the use of 3.5 million from revenue reserves, to prove the dynamic customer operating model, to note the interrelationships of the transformation programs with other programs of work, and delegates authority to the executive director in consultation with the lead member to refine the dynamic operating model as it evolves over time, responding to changing needs. But I'm assuming that that will also go back to the Select Committee as part of that process. OK, those are the five recommendations. Are those agreed? Thank you very much. Item nine, then, is the new draft Vision Zero road safety strategy and 20 mile per hour speed limit policy. I'll ask Matt to introduce the report first and then ask the chair of the Select Committee to comment. OK, Matt, thank you. Thank you, Lida. So this report presents an updated version of the Surrey Road Safe Vision Zero road safety strategy and 20 mile an hour speed limit policy for approval today. The strategy has been amended following an extensive 10 week consultation engagement period. It has reference to updated guidance published by central government as part of their plan for drivers. And this latest version of strategy has been approved by the Surrey Road Safe Board and was subject to scrutiny by the Communities, Environments and Highway Select Committee on the 17th of July. Road collisions resulting in death or injury have an absolutely devastating impact on victims, family and friends, as well as the pain and grief endured by those directly suffering with road collisions. The fear of road danger does affect whole communities. The trend in fatal and serious collisions have not reduced in Surrey over recent years, and our previous road safety strategy has now expired. Throughout the world and across the UK, governments, local authorities and police forces are all adopting the latest best practice Vision Zero and safe systems approach to road safety, which is before us today. So our strategy has been developed in collaboration with Surrey Police, the Surrey Police and Crime Commissioner, Surrey Fire and the Fire and Rescue and the National Highways. And it adopts a best practice Vision Zero and safe systems approach that includes a new target for reducing road casualties who are killed or seriously injured by 50% by 2035. It also includes our new policy where we make implementing 20mph more flexible to help achieve this target. As I mentioned, we held an extensive public and stakeholder consultation undertaken to inform the decision by Cabinet. It was non-statutory and it took place between January 11th and March 24th. A description setting out the methods and used is in the report itself, and the questions that were asked for each of the five components, which are safe speed, safe road users and behaviour, safe roads and streets, safe vehicles and post-collision response. And overall, the majority of correspondents were happy with what was being put forward. However, there were a number of responses which suggested a lack of confidence in the strategy would improve road safety, with resident feedback primarily suggesting that the road conditions themselves have a greater impact on road safety than the number of the other areas they are looking for. The County Council has an ongoing highways maintenance programme and significant investment programme of over £70 million a year, which is addressing this point about highways maintenance investment. We did also receive some very mixed views over the proposals about the new 20mph speed limit approach. And despite a number of residents expressing a negative view about the proposals, the comments actually were supporting the proposals that were being put forward, particularly the fact that this is not a blanket approach to introducing 20mph, instead adopting a localised decision-making approach in areas such as outside schools, residential areas and shopping areas as well. And these responses supported this approach. But it does outline that any future communication of this policy and our proposals of what we're doing needs to emphasise very clearly this is not a blanket approach, and it's very much based on local decision-making, particularly with the Divisional Councillor. It should also be highlighted that local engagement and consultation will be an integral part of any changes to the speed limits locally with the Divisional Councillor themselves. In addition, I just also wanted to highlight that with the government's change with their Department for Transport circular in March earlier this year, our policy fully complies with the new guidance issued by the Department for Transport. This is an emphasis on ensuring local people are consulted on any proposals, and again, the 20mph limits need to be predominantly self-enforcing without additional enforcement of police, and this is what we are supporting. So just with the recommendations there, it's really to say that it's a locally led approach, residents and Divisional Councillors, it is not a blanket proposal for the 20mph, and we will be working continuously to reduce killed and seriously injured incidences on our network, not only through greater investment into the network itself for maintenance, but also through interventions where possible with our partners. Thank you. Thank you very much, Matt. So at this stage, before the members speak, can I invite Keith Whisham, who's the Chair of the Communities, Environment and Highways Select Committee, to make a few comments. Thank you, Keith. Thank you very much indeed, Leader, and pleasure to be able to just say a few words of the Cabinet on this. Because the Select Committee have given a couple of very full sessions to this important strategy, both in December and then just last week to our session, going through a lot of the details, and I think it's important to say that the Select Committee are very broadly supportive of the strategy. I am conscious that 20 years ago in Surrey, there were an average of 60 to 70 people per year who died on our roads every year. Over the last few years, under previous strategies, that has been reduced to 30 or under per year, but that still members 30 a year too many people dying on our roads. And so the vision that this strategy has, which is in two phases to reduce the number of deaths and serious injuries by 50% between now and 2035, so the next 11 years, we think is feasible. But picking up on the comments concerning the public consultation, this was quite interesting. If I might borrow a phrase from the television character Victor Meldrew, who would say, I don't believe it, because a lot of the response from the public coming back through that was that they didn't actually believe that the strategy would work to be able to reduce the number of deaths and serious injuries on our roads by that amount, both in the first phase and then in the second phase up until 2050 to zero. I think it's going to be a big push ever to get to zero in terms of no deaths at all ever on our roads. But the important point is that we are on the strategy to be able to start reducing the number of injuries and deaths again. I think it is important to say that the select committee wanted to have progress monitored, including a delivery plan with what the key delivery items are. And they would help the committee in assessing how it's going over the next few years. Another point is whether sufficient resources are available to be able to not just deliver the strategy but also to make it really impactful in terms of what can be achieved. What we were able to pick up from the budget is a sum of two and a half million pounds allocated in the medium term, but that's over five years, so half a million pounds per year, which divided by 81 divisions is about 6,000 pounds per division. So I think that really needs to be highlighted. We all know around this table how little you can do for 6,000 pounds, and particularly when it comes to road matters. So I think we not only would like to see more resources, but everybody says that for every part of every council budget, but also how that money is being spent. And also to pick up on the point that the cabinet member made, we really wanted to push for clarity in terms of the public consultation that might take place on measures locally, particularly 20 mile per hour zones, but any other measures. Not the statutory consultation that is also required, but then any informal public consultation. The point being that in any area, the people who are concerned are not only residents, but all other road users who go in and out of that area and use the road. And so we wanted clarity on the role of the divisional member and the consultation process. But I think, Chairman, that I think it's worth just repeating that the committee have been broadly very supportive of this updated strategy. And we look forward to working with the cabinet member and yourselves in making it a reality to ratchet down the number of deaths and serious injuries that this county sees on its roads. Thank you. Thank you very much. I'm just going to ask Matt to pick up a couple of points and then go to Jonathan Hully and then I'll come to Jonathan Essex. Thank you. I think resourcing is always a concern. It's always a factor in everything that we do. But I'm very pleased to say that not only do the members have their own allocation of £120,000, which a proportion can be used from that, but we have already increased the central budget up to half a million pounds already. So that can deal with a lot of these issues. It's important to note that rather than just splitting it across all 81 Councillors, each area will be different. It will have to be assessed on its own merits and whether it will have local support or not. But if we were to just do a signed only scheme for 20 miles an hour, which one would hope we could because the speeds are low enough and it's self-enforcing, it would be roughly around £10,000 and that would include the speed surveys, the consultation and the installation as well. So it's only where speeds are significantly higher that require engineering measures does it become that much more costly. But as I say, it will be done on a case-by-case basis. But again, thanks to the committee for their hard work and we have accepted all their recommendations, particularly around local member involvement in the consultation process. Thank you, Matt. Jonathan Hurley. Thank you, leader, and good afternoon to you and also to Councillor Witham. And can I also take this opportunity to thank your committee, your select committee, for the work that you've done in scrutinising the strategy and policy in recent weeks. And also to thank you personally, Councillor Witham, for the work you have put into the work of the committee recently. Can I just say that underpinning this new strategy and speed limit policy is an absolute determination by this authority to reduce road collisions on our network and to make driving, walking and cycling a safer experience for our residents. And can I emphasise that this policy and strategy also speaks to our cyclists and our pedestrians. It is about safer streets and that is our clear objective. Also, can I be clear, leader, that the new 20 mile per hour policy unequivocally does not advocate, and I repeat, does not advocate a blanket approach, proposing instead that we adopt a localised approach to speed reduction decision making. Individual 20 mile per hour speed limit changes to a specific road or parts of a road, such as outside schools, will be subject under this new strategy and policy to local community engagements and local community consultation. We must have the right speed limits on the right roads in response to local concerns, and that is what the new speed limit policy delivers on. I welcome the decision that we have hand in glove with this new strategy and speed reduction policy, a commitment to build out a wider and wide ranging communication plan, highlighting to the public at large that this policy does not support a blanket 20 mile per hour approach, but instead will seek to explain the benefits of this strategy and policy to ensure that we get the right schemes on the right roads in this county. Thank you. Thank you very much. Steve Baxson. Thank you, leader, and thanks to Councillor Whitten for the report. I just wanted to add that actually, in my own division of East Molesy and Esha, particularly in the East Molesy part, we recently had a very successful roll out of a 20 miles per hour scheme in which 19 residential streets were converted from 30 down to 20. But it was done in a holistic way based on the need for a crossing outside of school, which we introduced and some other tactile crossing points. But then we also thought a bit more widely about those journeys that children would make walking to the school and were able to put in the 20 miles per hour. But I can confirm that there was engagement with the community as part of this process, and a surprisingly high amount of residents were in favour of it. In fact, it was 77%. Now, I have had some feedback since from people saying, well, you know, if you don't enforce the 20s, then how do you know people are going to stick to it? But, you know, there's no real difference between that and what we currently have with 30 miles per hour streets. Although I think our hope and expectation is that by lowering the speed limit as we've done, even though there may be a few that attempted to exceed that speed limit, they're probably driving still at a lower speed than they would have been before, which I think has got to be beneficial. So overall, my experience from my division has been positive on this. Thank you, thank you, Sue. Thank you, Jonathan. Yes, Jonathan Essex. As ambitious as first published, that this isn't just a move from a blanket approach to looking at single streets outside schools, but looking at clusters of roads at the same time, while acknowledging that not all roads in urban areas would reduce the 20 mile hours speed, but that some rural roads would also need to have lower speeds. And I'm also pleased to see that this strategy, this paper recognises that the current funding and resources in this area is not sufficient and that the new policy needs new resources, that's additional finance to deliver this increased ambition. I was pleased to hear in the scrutiny session that the two and a half million pounds of additional funding, which goes with this strategy, is indicative at this stage, it is not based on a worked house as to how much is needed. So once this initial scaling up, presumably from half a million to three million for the central team that you've set out here is implemented, that there will be a review to see if this is the level that's needed to deliver enough changes across the county to realise the ambition that's been set out within it. So really pleased to see this going forward and look forward to the strategy, having the resources needed, the additional resources to move from keeping road safety as it is now with the current level of funding that the cabinet member Matt Furness has set out to an increased level of ambition and funding to deliver the changes you have set out. So thank you very much. Thank you very much, Jonathan. Just three points I'm going to just reinforce, if that's okay. First of all, this is all about local consultation and particularly for the local member who will be the closest to their community so the feedback from the consultation was mixed in all honesty, whether that's because people were cynical about the impact it would have, the beneficial impact it would have, or otherwise. So it is important that the local member is closely involved, and that it is targeted by all speakers have made the point that this isn't a blanket 20 mile per hour across the county quite the reverse. It is it is to be targeted to areas where it will be beneficial on the funding as Matt Furness has said for put up signage and have a speed review is something up to 10,000 pounds. There are 81 members here that could be another 800,000 that is used to fund the rollout of this on top of the two and a half million that the cabinets have included in the medium term financial settlement so I do believe that using the member allowance, and the central funds would be sufficient to make sure that those areas that want a 20 mile per hour zone, and indeed I'm in the process of including one in my own division of way bridge that that will be achievable. So I think it's it's you know, I mean we absolutely accepting from what the chair of the select committee said that the actual number of accidents and deaths on the road, or deaths have decreased I suspect that is in part if not in large part due to the improvement of safety of vehicles themselves, as much as anything else, but anything that we can do to, to, to keep speed limits at a sensible level. And, you know, to encourage people to feel it's safe to cycle on roads, has to be commended. So I think, of course, it will be in the delivery of this policy that we, you know, we shall see whether that that is the case but the framework is there now for any member that wants to pursue that to do so, so I would encourage everyone to, to, where appropriate to do so. There are two recommendations to one is to the first to approve the vision zero road safety strategies been amended following feedback from public consultation, and we've referenced updated guidance from central government as part of their plan for drivers. And the second recommendation is to approve the county councils more flexible approach to implementing new 20 mile per hour speed limits. Are those agreed. Good. Thank you very much. Item 10, then, is the Winston Churchill school replacement. The existing cladding and curtain walling system at Winston Churchill school science block does not prevent horizontal and vertical fire spread. I'm asking cabinet to approve the capital expenditure to replace existing non fire rated in field panels with a fire rated to provide a safe building environment, and to ensure the building has the required compartmentation to contain any fire risk. Sorry fire and rescue last visited the building, which was on the sixth of Jane, and a fire safety matters letter was provided detail detailing their findings. No enforcement was required. Sorry fire and rescues area inspecting officer has further visited and advise that due to the high level of automatic fire detection and regular fire drills organized by school staff pupils would be able to exit the building within safe timescales. And I understand work is due to start in August, next month. Therefore recommendations leader. Thank you. Thank you. Yes, and it's important I think that you've just highlighted that the, that there are no imminent concerns at all regarding fire safety and the press picked up something which so clarifying that there is no imminent risk had there been we would have closed the school. So this is really a preventative or precautionary measure, and it is quite right that we do that and those you say those words will start next month, and I'm sure will be completed speedily. So, I'd unless there is anything that anybody wants to raise it's this part one paper simply approving the capital funding and the procurement of the supply chain partners, we have to do agree that. Thank you very much, and then still with you naturally item 11 console house. Thank you leader console house regular is one of our former administrative offices, staff relocated from here to Woodhatch place. The building has been marketed since since September 2022, but no acceptable commercial office for the freehold have been received. I'm asking cabinet to approve a letting for the whole building, retaining the property as an investment holding and future decisions will be made by the strategic investment board, or commercial details are contained in part two of this report, and the recommendations. There's four recommendations leader. Yeah, thank you. I think this is, you know, a positive step that they use it, a tenant good tenant ready to go in. And, and that will obviously be provide revenue stream for the council, as you say well we'll keep keep an eye on that longer term, but in terms of the current proposal it is to approve the letting of console house and delegates authority to the section 151 officers the finance officer consultation with director land and property to conclude best best value terms and complete all associated legal documentation, note the financial value for money implications, which are in part two, and formally declares the assets service to operational service requirements so that we can then let it is agreed. Thank you. Item 12 and children's community health services re commissioning program plan. Thank you leader. This part one report provides detail on the procurement phase of the children's community health services re commissioning program, the procurement phase is now being completed, and the report is coming to us for our councils decision on the contract negotiation, which will lead to the final award of the contract. Once the award of the contract is approved by all parties, then the program will move into the mobile, mobile ization phase, so that the new service model for children's community health services can be delivered from the first of April, 2025. Children's community health services encompass a wide range of universal targeted and specialist clinical services across the whole county from health visiting for all babies and young children, through to children's continuing care for those who have very complex needs. They are important services, and for many families. They are the main source of support for health in childhood. The contract for the children's community health services is jointly commissioned by this council, and also by Sari heartlands ICB friendly ICB and NHS England South East. Each of these for commissioning parties is, or will be taking a similar decision to this one through, through their own governing process, and coming to us for decision today. The declared core financial envelope for children's community health services curement is approximately 36 million pounds split between the four commissioners. The part one report sets out details of the procurement process, the range of services that are covered in the new contract, and the funding envelope. Details of the contract which are commercially sensitive are set out in the part two report along with the recommendations for our consideration today. Thank you. Thank you very much. We are part way through a process, and this report really just gives authority to officers to take forward those discussions, those detailed contract discussions. There will be some conversations in part two, which are, as you say, commercially sensitive, but that is all that you are seeking at this stage, subject to those detailed contract discussions. It will then come back to cabinet, I imagine September or thereabouts, depending on how they go for a sort of final decision. Does anybody wish to make any comments at this stage, otherwise perhaps we can pick that up in part two. So the recommendation is that the recommendations will be considered in part two of cabinet. Okay. That's agreed. Thank you. Item 13, then, is a month to financial report update. David. Thank you, leader. This is the month to financial report, which was the position, financial position at the end of May of this year. And at the end of the month, so two months into the new financial year, we were forecasting an overspend on revenue budget of 15.3 million pounds. And that was made up of a forecast overspend in adults of 6.9, CFLL of 7.4 million, and a million in EIG. We're already forecasting an overspend on the revenue budget, but I think it is a reflection, if you like, of the financial pressures that the authority continues to face. Although there have been some improvements in things like inflation and so on, you know, we are still in, you know, challenging times. And I think this report at the end of May highlights it. In terms of the forecast overspend in adults, it's really in the area of care packages and staffing. In children's, it's their home to school travel assistance, and in that area, we have reconstituted the oversight group, which is now beginning to get to work and really beginning to focus on what action can be taken to contain that overspend and hopefully reduce some of the costs as we go through the year. And in environment transport and infrastructure, there's been some forecast overspend because of high market prices for recyclable, dry mix recyclable materials. Just looking at the risk situation, as well as forecasting an overspend, as I said, 15.3 million, the different directorates have identified net risks of 20.4 million for the year. So, again, that's indicative of the sort of pressures which we're facing in year against the existing budget. You know, we have continued to work within budget envelopes, and we do expect, and I know the various directorates are working on developing mitigation actions to actually deal with those forecast overspends. On the capital side, when we approved the budget back in February of this year, we approved an overall budget of 404.9 million pounds. Since then, there's been a lot of work taken place to, and this is through the capital program panel, working with the various strategic capital groups. And we've been looking at that capital program and looking at what's actually deliverable, practically deliverable, and, of course, what's affordable. And as a result of that work, there is a proposal which is included in the recommendations for this paper to re-phase the capital program, which would result in reduction of the capital budget for this year, reducing to 313.4 million pounds. The final thing just to say in terms of this report is that there has been some additional grant funding made available by -- and that's been secured by public health and communities in the areas of prevention in adults. That comes to about 18 million pounds in total. This is incremental money to be spent on three additional areas. There's 5.3 million, which has been available -- has been made available to be spent in terms of the health determinants research collaboration grant. There's been 6.4 million on a work well grant for the DWP. And there's been a further 6.3 million in terms of independent placement support. So that additional money is very welcome. And, again, that will be covered in the recommendation. So as I say, there's three recommendations before us this afternoon in terms of this report. One is to just bring them up, but one is to note the forecast revenue budget and capital budget position for the year. The second one is to note the additional grant funding, which I've explained, and the third one is to approve the rephasing of the capital budget to 313.4 million pounds for the year. Thank you, leader. Thank you, David. Those recommendations agreed. Thank you. That brings us to the end of the public part of this meeting. So under section 100A of the local government act 1972, public be excluded from the meeting during consideration of the following items of business on the grounds that they involve the likely disclosure of exempt information under the relevant paragraphs of part one of schedule 12A of the act. So on that basis, I close the meeting. Thank you very much.