Transcript

Thank you, Josh. Welcome to the meeting. A couple of housekeeping items in line with the openness of local government bodies regulations 2014. Anyone attending today's meeting, including members of the board, can film, record, and/or do social media, provided this does not disturb the business of the meeting. And can you note that it's a public meeting and is being live webcast. Can I ask board members and anyone presenting to speak clearly and directly into the microphones? And could I perhaps ask you to make sure your mobile phones are turned off, if you'd just let me do that. Okay. Shall we do a few introductions, because we've got some new folks from XPS. So I'll introduce myself, and then we'll go around. So I'm Nick Harrison, Councillor and the Chairman of this board. Sally Wilson, Assistant Chief Fire Officer, Service Support and Vice Chair of the meeting. Thank you. Good morning. My name's Glen Parry-Jones. I'm Group Commander, Staff Office, and I'm also one of the employee representatives. Good morning. I'm Daniela Menya, People and Organizational Development Lead, and the Scheme Manager. Gary Butler, Senior Pinchions Advisor. Hello. Joss Butler, Democratic Services, I'll be taking notes for the minutes. I know we have new representatives from XPS here. So if you'd like to introduce yourself, please. My name's Graham Hall. I'm the Head of Public Sector Relations here at XPS. Sharon Stoker is also due to join, which is having a little bit of IT problems at the moment. The Zoom's not quite worked as we expected to, so she's just trying to log on via her laptop. So I apologise that she's a little bit late. OK. And I don't recognise the … Rich, is that you? Yeah. Hi. Morning, everybody. I'm Rich Scarfe, Watch Commander at Fordbridge Fire Station, off duty today, so not in uniform. OK. Thank you so much. Right. OK. So let's go to the Item 1. Apologies for absence. None received. None received. Thank you. We are still core 8, so you can confirm, yes. Minutes from the previous meeting, 26th of April, that's on pages 5 to 26. Could I ask if they are an accurate record? OK. Thank you all very much. Those are approved. Do any members have an interest to declare? It's Item 3 on the agenda. No. Thank you. Now, Item 4, we have no members' questions, no public questions, and no petitions. So we'll go straight on to the action tracker, Item 5. And Danny, you will be presenting this with assistance from Gary. So can I ask you to introduce this item and take us through the highlights, please? Apologies. Yes, of course. OK. So the first item is around the Matthews modified pension scheme arrangements. The update on this one is, as in my report, I'll go through the figures later on, but we have been -- we've sent out quite a few more statements now to members. Additionally, we're also now looking at some of those coming back to us and how we put in place mechanisms to ensure that they're processed. So I'll look at the figures in the scheme manager's report, if that's OK. That's one of the key highlights. Just moving on, we also -- just going to go through -- bear with me -- the member tracing, which obviously also sits within that piece. We have focused on trying to get the statements out, because obviously we have quite a few, and so that tracing exercise hasn't commenced yet, but we will be commencing that very shortly. Now we've got some more of the statements delivered out, and we're on track. Apologies. That's A3. Twenty-four. Twenty-three. OK. So we will look at the risk register shortly, so I will skip over that one, and obviously the scheme manager report. So the key one really there, and obviously just additionally is the McLeod. We have also been, as I'll mention in the report when I go through that, sent over a majority of those requirements to them now via the GAD calculator, so they should all be up-to-date as well in relation to those having gone out. So they're the key highlights. Members have any comments or questions as we go through each one? I think we're now moving on next to A1.24, is that right? Is that your -- Yes, A1.24, again, which is in the scheme manager report, I'll touch upon when we get there, but that was the McLeod reference, which was the other highlight, and then A2.24, which is about the annual benefit statements, which we have -- I've referred to in my scheme manager report, but we will go through in more depth, I'm sure, but the update is that we are still waiting on the payroll data to come through to be able to pass on to XPS to do that. I think this is worthy of, you know, quite a discussion, but let's hold it for the scheme manager's report, if we can. Okay. Gary, are there any further you would like to -- So we then have three which are, well, A7.23, which is recommended for closure. Are members happy with that? Yep. And I became aware that there are three items from the previous meeting not covered in this, so perhaps we could go back, and, Danny, if you're able to give us a verbal update on them, so let me just find which page it is. Yeah, of course, they're A3.24, A4.24, and A5.24. Okay, and they are on page -- it's on page eight of the pack, which is page four of six of the minutes, so, yeah, A3.24, A4.24, and A5.24, yeah, that's right. So if you can give us a verbal update on those. So, of course, in respect to A5.24, we have met up with XPS since the last board, and we have gone through in detail and reset the -- you know, because the different members from both sides reset that relationship with them. We spoke through some of the challenges and where we will go with those and how we can work with the new account manager in relation to taking those forward, which has been put in place since the last board, so we now have a new account manager from XPS supporting us specifically in achieving what we need to be achieving. And that was -- And, sorry, the account manager now is -- Is the lady coming on -- that's not on there yet. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So I think -- Well, perhaps when she joins us -- Sharon. -- I'll ask her for her -- any feedback she's had from that. Absolutely, yeah. We've been -- It's actually, to be honest, it's been very helpful in resetting that because we've been having conversations with her since we met and sort of being able to get further traction on some of the work that we're doing, so I'm sure she'll be able to talk to that when she comes on. I do see there's another person online. Is that Sharon? It's Joe. No, it's just -- Oh, it's Joe. Yeah. Okay. Sorry. I can't read at that distance. Oh, is there? Oh, it is Sharon. Apologies. Yeah. Sharon, can you introduce yourself? Yeah. Sorry. Sorry for the delay there. I'm hoping you can hear me okay, but I'm assuming you still can't actually see me. Is that correct? That's right. We can't see you, but we can hear you loud and clear. Oh, that's -- And did you hear the comment made by Danny just now? Sharon, did you hear me? Did you hear -- Are you hearing us, Sharon? I would -- I'll bring Sharon in where I am. We'll just share my laptop. It might be the easiest way of doing this because it sounds like Sharon's got some IT problems going on, so I'll just go and get her. One second. Okay. And we'll -- When Sharon's made any comments, she wants to, we'll -- Perhaps you can just deal with A3 and A4, 24, if there's any comments you have. Let's wait for Sharon to come in. They're mainly XPS comments anyway, I think, so for those two, they're probably to be responded to by them. Is Danny -- Is Sharon aware of these two issues, A3 and A4, 24? [inaudible] Yeah. Okay. Hey, everybody, sorry about that. I've got multiple IT issues, as I think some of you have just seen there. So, welcome, Sharon, and you're a new account manager, I think, from XPS. Yeah, the client relationship manager for your fire and rescue authority. Yeah. I don't know if you heard the -- I asked -- One of our action points was to -- You know, meet further with XPS and understand each other's processes, and Danny gave a view that this has been helpful. I just wondered if there was any comment from you on that matter, how -- you know, if you found it helpful or if there are further action needed in relation to that. No, it was -- It was really helpful. So, Graham and I came down to Rygate to meet with your team, which I think is -- Especially, obviously, with there being new members from both sides, I think that that was definitely beneficial to meet face to face. And yeah, we had lots of conversations around, obviously, the previous sort of setup and arrangements that we had and then going forward and really where we needed to focus on from both sides. So, yeah, it was really, really useful, and I think, obviously, going forward, having been sort of having a meeting in person, it just makes it a little bit easier for the communication going forward. Good. Thank you. Thank you for that. There were a couple of other points raised at that previous meeting. In our terms, their reference is A324, which is the third item in the minutes in 2024, and it was a comment from a member saying he was aware of members of the pension scheme and not received their pension forecast figures on time and further stated that members of the scheme were frustrated with the lack of information, so I did suggest details be shared with XPS allowing an investigation. Glenn, I think that was from you. Was that shared? Not that I'm aware of, no. Okay. Glenn, can I say if there's any remaining issues, perhaps you could get directly in contact with Sharon. We do want these bottomed out. Okay. Thank you. And A424, I asked if there could be details included on what general means under the completed cases by month, and we were told XPS would seek more information to be shared with the board and the pensions team. I don't know if you can help on that one, Sharon. Do we have a breakdown of the general? Yeah, we can look through and obviously give the task comments that are on there, but as it basically says, general is really anything that covers anything apart from what else was split up within the SLA, so a lot of them that are coming through at the moment obviously queries on McLeod, when the benefits are payable, when things are coming out, and we have noticed that there has been a large increase in those general cases, and obviously that has drawn down our overall SLAs, which we've shown the breakdown of what it is with and without those, but we can do more of a breakdown of what each one is, but as I said, it can't be anything from somebody asking what their dependent may receive if they were to die to somebody asking on payroll when their next pension payment is due, so it's quite a wide variety of different things, from something very simple and quick to something that could be a lot more complex. Okay, well, we're going to be looking at the performance, so if there are any further questions, we can come back to that. Yeah. Okay. So, I think we've -- with that discussion, I think we've probably finished the action and recommendations tracker. Is that agreed? We'll note the contents of the report? Thank you. So, the next item is the Scheme Management Update Report, pages 37, and this is for Danny and her team to tell us about that. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. So, I'll work through some of the highlights I've touched upon, some in the action tracker already from this report since the last board. So, the first one to look at is the McLeod discrimination remedy, and as I mentioned, the calculation data has now been sent to XPS for the remaining tranches of membership, and that was in May and June '24. And that's the current state of play, and we'll obviously continue to work on that data collection with XPS moving forward for the outstanding cases. Are there any questions on that before we move on? No. Thank you. Okay. In respect of the 10 percent pension allowance, I'm conscious that this is obviously one that keeps coming up when we meet. We are recruiting to the pensions assistant role at the moment, and as soon as we get that post in place, then we will start to commence the 10 percent allowance -- pension allowance, sorry, project when we have that individual in post, which we hope will be over the next couple of months, depending on obviously notice periods for any successful candidates. The Matthews case, or the modified pension, which I touched upon before, we have sent out a substantial number, I think, per the cases, calculations to members. So in terms of the figures, we have members have contacted is 208. This was obviously at the point this was written. We have had some more come in since. Expressions of interest forms that are returned, 100, to which eight members ticked no, and 92 so far are interested in pursuing that. The GAD calculations of those 100 we've had so far, 51, and the statements which have been sent to members are now 51, and finally the options election form, which is sent back, there are eight. So they're the overall figures within the Matthews case. We have got, like I said, some other expression of interest come in since I wrote this report, which we are now looking into, and additionally, we're also looking at the next stage in the process because, of course, once they send back their request, we have to then put it in action. So that's where we are now putting in place a process to achieve that. As mentioned in the report, obviously, in respect of the maybe being issued later than expected, the interest isn't affected on the ARIA's payments. So just wanted to just sort of obviously make that clear. Any questions on that? Any questions? Could I ask one, please? Yeah, please. Members contacted 208. Yes. It's paragraph 2.6 in the table. Is that the -- is that all the population impacted or are there others to be contacted? At the moment, that's what we know. We obviously need to look to the tracing exercise now to find out if there are any further, which is our next step. We just wanted to ensure at this stage that we got the benefit statements out as much as we could and got those moving, and then we will look into that tracing exercise. We had -- got agreement to pursue that tracing exercise. We just have to complete the data protection assessment, which we have completed, too, and then we can progress into that particular piece and understand if there are any further that may be impacted and want to take us up on that expression of interest. Thanks, Chair. Just to follow up to that, I mean, I'm assuming that we would know the number of people who are affected, whether we can trace or address or not. So what's the total number of people who are within that options exercise? Of that total figure, 208 have been contacted so far. Correct, yeah. I think it would be helpful to know the total number of people within the options. We can take that away, Glen, and get you that number. Not a problem. We'll take that as an action tracker, but I think as we're not going to be meeting for several more months, perhaps an e-mail to the board to tell them that, because I think you'll know the total population, potentially, and therefore I think we can be assured or not so assured, as it were. So if that can be followed up, please. Yeah, the figures are changing all the time. We've had another expression of interest this morning, and two more forms come back, so it's changing. I do understand that, but I think just trying to -- Just a total. 100 out of 208, or now more, is it 258 or 308? That's the kind of area I think we need some assurance with in that regard. Thank you. Not a problem. We'll take that back and get that number to you ahead of the next board. So moving on to the annual benefits statements and remedial service statements, obviously mentioned in my report that these were planned to be issued by XPS on the 31st or by the 31st of August. We have had some challenges in getting payroll data over to XPS so they could formulate those, and we are in constant contact with payroll to try and understand how we can achieve that. To date, we haven't, unfortunately, been able to get that data. We are meeting with the head of that area this afternoon to try and find a way forward knowing that they've had some challenges with team members being unwell, which has led to this as well. But we will hopefully get some forward actions from the meeting this afternoon, which will inform next steps and a deadline we can work to to try and get that data. Perhaps before any questions, could I say this came to light when I had my pre-meeting with officers a couple of weeks ago, and I did write to the head of that service immediately, and I had a response that -- well, you've summarized as the person who -- dealing with it has gone off, and I was told there was some imminent re-planning to get resources and move forward on that. But I haven't had a further update since that, and neither has Danny, from what I understand. So it will be something -- I would like us to -- I mean, obviously, you're welcome to speak on this, but I would certainly like to document concern. I will personally contact the relevant department manager and seek further clarifications. I would have thought, here we are, almost at the end of July, they're due at the end of August, I can only think that these are going to be late, so we should certainly put it on our breaches register, or potential breaches register, so, I mean, we should certainly do that at this stage. But Glyn, you had a comment -- Vice-Chairman? Sally. Thanks, Chair, thank you, and I can confirm that the meeting that's taking place later today is with the relevant department that you contacted, so those -- hopefully that meeting will be helpful in terms of the resolution as well. A couple of things, most has been covered, but just really keen to make sure that we get communication out to members. At this time we're not going to meet the deadline, so I think we just need early communications to members on that. So if we could agree that communications will go out as soon as possible, maybe following the conversation this afternoon to understand what some of the outcomes from those discussions look like, and then I think, yeah, just in terms of the reporting as well, I think, let's take early action on that. What we'll need to understand is in terms of the mitigation around being able to draw that data to supply to XPS and what that looks like, so that we can have that within that breach report as well. I think as far as an actual breach, and this is highly, highly likely, we will need to -- they will want to know, you know, when we will complete, and indeed if we're communicating to the membership, they will want to know. Glyn, please. Thank you, Chair. From a membership point of view, you know, we're frustrated. Last year with the ABS, they came out, I think, was it in February, so that's extremely late compared to when the deadline was, and for it to happen another year is unfortunate. I appreciate we're in a complicated time at the moment with some of the various remedies that are going on, but still it's frustrating for the membership. I agree with Sally. I think that communications is really key. From a board perspective, I'd be really keen to understand timelines, so in terms of, you know, meetings, next steps in terms of not just when we're projecting the kind of completion date is some of the steps that might need to be taken in between. One of the frustrations last year was that we kept getting told end of the month, a couple of weeks, and as I say, that was from August through until February, so just as clear a possible timeline in some of the steps, and if we can start ticking off the milestones, we know we're getting a bit closer, and it will just, I think, help to manage some of those frustrations and expectations. Some of the conversations I have with members, I can kind of allay some of those fears. I think communication is key on that aspect. Yeah, I totally understand that. We are drafting those columns at the moment, and obviously pending the meeting this afternoon, we'll just finalize them on the outcomes of that meeting. Whether we can get some deadlines, as Sally said, is unsure at this stage, but we will hope to get some deadlines, and then obviously we can keep those conversations going so that you're informed, and you can help members too. I think if the suggestion of having -- knowing the intermediary steps would keep the board assured, I don't think we should tell the membership until we've got some clear deadlines we think we can stick to, and -- but I think, you know, we will only meet once a quarter, so I think if you can keep all the board members advised, perhaps at least on a fortnightly basis, as to where we are, and against this schedule of forward steps, would that be acceptable to the board? Sally? If it's okay, Chair, I think I'd still be keen to make sure that we did communicate out to members that there is going to be a delay. Oh, yes, absolutely. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. And this, colleagues, you've heard our difficulties at this end, and we would be, you know, much obliged when we get to the -- giving you the data, that you can accelerate it as much as you can. I don't know if you have any comments on that. Sharon? Well, I'll jump in there. Yes. So as soon as we get the data, obviously, we'll work on it as soon as we possibly can. I mean, obviously, if you're doing a communication to the members, it may also be being a little bit proactive and getting in touch with the pensions regulator, because, again, they need those reports. So if it feels like you're not going to reach it, I'll certainly get us the data so that it can be issued for the 31st of August. It's probably worth letting them know as early as possible. So then at least then they know about it and potentially will work with you to make sure that it's done as quickly as possible as well. It's just normally if you then breach it afterwards, they might take a more of a stricter look on it. I'll put it that way, because, again, obviously, they need that information. That's a point well made. So I think we agree with that point, and we'll -- Absolutely. Yeah, we're already on that particular action, because we're aware that we're not going to meet that now. There's just not enough time remaining. So we will -- and we have already spoken -- I've spoken with Carrie about contacting the pensions regulator to make sure they're aware. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. So back to you, Danny, on the other points on your report. Thanks very much. So just moving on then, the main of the points around the training, there were unfortunately no spaces in the January LGA training. So we are now booked in in June 25, just to make that known as a change. In terms of resourcing, as I mentioned, we are recruiting the pensions assistant to the team to support the team with the workload. And that is ongoing at the moment, so hopefully by the next time we meet, there will be an outcome on that particular process. Any questions on that? Okay. Go on, sir. Yeah. Sorry. Thank you. I'm just going to go back a little, if that's okay. So 2.13, GMP rectification, is there an update on that, in terms of next steps? I don't know, Gary, if you -- my understanding is that this is set with SPS, sorry, apologies, but I will ask Gary to comment. Yeah. I know Graham has got an update on the -- the data was supplied before the last meeting, so I assume it's being completed already. Yeah, it will be with our projects team, so I will get an update so we can get a report certainly for the next meeting, but obviously we will get it to you before then. Okay. Thanks. Thank you very much. Before we move on much further, could I just take us back to, I think it's 2.10, where we're talking about the -- the deadline of 6th of October for pension savings statements. I guess that's in -- is that in doubt as well, because of our payroll difficulties? It will all -- yeah, it will all need to be included, so that -- that will affect the -- yeah, the pension savings statements as well. Thank you. Okay. Okay. So just a quick comment on the visits to the SharePoint site. They continually move up in the trajectory, which is a positive thing. There have been 220, sorry, visits in the last 90 days to the site, and the majority of those were via desktop, but the 30-day average in terms of those visiting the site was 43 seconds spent on the site. The interesting piece of analysis here, I think, is that the areas that they were visiting are slightly different to what they have been previously, which was the home page, the pension schemes, and the opting out. Historically, it's been more around the XPS administration, so that was an interesting change, which may indicate that they have the information they require, or they are not seeking it at the moment, so -- okay, and I think that's probably the final point from my report. Any further questions? Thank you, Chair. Danny, just to take you back to 2.18, Unit 4 payroll adjustments, we're saying we're continuing to correct contribution errors for, sorry, scheme members, and we'll contact the affected members to arrange for the under-over payments to be adjusted. Do we know everyone who is affected at the moment, because what I would like in some ways is for everyone to be contacted as soon as possible to let them know that there's an issue, and we'll be in contact in due course to let them know repayments, rather than let this continue to happen for however many months, and then people finally get told where they could have made arrangements now in the meantime. So are we in a position to literally get the communications out to everyone in the meantime? It's a fair question. I'm going to ask Gary if he would mind responding on that point. Payroll are dealing with this. They are contacting members and correcting the contributions. I can get an update. I assume they are -- they're probably struggling with Unit 4. There's probably backlogs, I assume, but I can get an update from payroll. Again, I was speaking to them this afternoon. Please, I mean, it would be good to understand if we've got a full grip on who is affected. You know, I'm sure we are struggling with Unit 4, but I'm sure our members will struggle if we contact them in a few months' time to say, by the way, you owe us X or Y, and if we could have told them earlier just to make them start saving that money, I think it would be good if we can contact them as soon as possible, please. Thank you. I think the communication I've had from that department when I was chasing them on the annual benefits statement information was that they are still continuing to find problems. Maybe the most common ones have been dealt with. I know there were delays in sort of joining new members into the scheme, to a degree. So I think more complex problems are still being found, but an update, Gary, would be much appreciated. And again, if we can ask for it at this afternoon's meeting, that would be best. Yeah, I'm sure we can pick that up with Tom this afternoon and just try and get a bit of an update. If he can't provide it there, then he can go back and provide us with more details about where they're at with that particular piece. I did understand that there's been communication, but we need to understand the extent. Thank you. So are there any more comments or questions on this item? So I'll ask you to note the content of the report. Clearly, our discussion will be included in the minutes; is that agreed? Thank you. So on to Item 7, the XPS report. So Graeme and Sharon, can you introduce your report, take us through the highlights, and I'm sure there will be questions as we go through it. So thank you very much. Yeah, no, that's fine. Actually, I'm just looking at the report that's in the PAC, and that looks like it's the previous quarter's report because he's looking at January to March. Can I -- the PAC might be quite confusing because we had a late report for our previous meeting and we included that in our agenda or in the minutes this time. But further on, you should -- Yeah, I found it. So it's on page 43 of our PAC. Yeah, so this is our provisionally updated report. We're actually in the process of rolling out a whole new report PAC, which will hopefully be even a little bit easier to follow and flow through. So I'll go through this one first, and as I said, from next quarter, you'll see how we've hopefully improved PAC as well. And so at the beginning, we've got our overview of where we are with everything, and so covering things like our APT tool, which we're using to -- obviously, while we're waiting for our normal Altair system to be updated, we've been looking to obviously do as much calculation as we possibly can as well that we can develop while the space of the system's been updated. So it doesn't slow us down in the fact that we know we've got a lot of work to get through for McLeod. So we've introduced that. It seems to be working well. We've certainly been checking the calculations from that, and it's providing the answers that we're expecting, and so we have been progressing where we can once we've got the data to get things like the immediate choice RSSs out, and we're also looking obviously at how we can use this as part of the member self-service ABS RSS. That's due at the 31st of August, but again, reliant on that data. So -- and as you've already met, Sharon, we've expanded our client relationship team, and so therefore, obviously, you're going to have a specific key point person, Sharon, but I'm also there. Sharon is part of my team, so as I said, if there's anything that you feel that needs escalating, come to Sharon or myself, we'll both obviously deal with that and take that forward. We've also looked at how our business-as-usual team works, and we have broken that up a little bit more, again, just to make it a bit more agile and more responsive to individual fire authorities' needs, whereas before, we had one large group that dealt with all of our police and all of our fire schemes, which obviously was totally 36. Now each team actually has just a total of about 12 of our police and fire clients in total, which, as I said, hopefully that will make it a little bit more proactive, and again, being getting on top of any cases that might be outstanding or certain cases, obviously, that you might want to progress in a little bit quicker because there might be vulnerable people or there's specific reasons for those to be processed in a slightly faster process time than what we would normally be looking to do. The other areas, and obviously, if I may interrupt, before we go too far, I mean, there is a discussion in the papers about the level of automation being lost, and I mean, this is an industry-wide problem, or at least people using, you know, this provider. Could you, I mean, just to, I think we should just clarify that it affects, really, anybody using this software, and perhaps you could, it's associated with McCloud, could you just say a few more words that we can get a better grasp of the difficulties you're having? Thank you. The third-party administrator, third-party software provider is Haywood, and we use the Altair system. Now, Haywood provides admin systems across numerous different five authorities, not just the ones that are obviously with XPS, so therefore, the way that things actually work is it tends to be a cumulative approach, McCloud obviously has changed that in the sense that there was a lot of discussions with people like Blue, like Commercial, because obviously it was affecting everybody, not just XPS, and obviously the agreements on how the development would happen were based around, obviously, fixing it for everybody, not just individual administrators because it affected everybody. Now, I'm the chair of the, what's called the Police and Fire Class Group for Haywood, so obviously I've got direct input into what those developments are, so that helps in the sense that, obviously, we've got somebody who reports directly into Haywood as such and it helps progress those developments. The problem with McCloud, though, is obviously it's so large that it has been split up over various different phases. This started back probably March last year when the development started coming through, but obviously there's different steps that need to be done with that, so things like the new ABS process, testing for that only came out at the very beginning of this month. We're already into our third wave of testing updates, so that first wave, we had about a week to go back, provide all the things that we felt weren't working. We've now had a top-up that came in yesterday to hopefully fix some of those, and there's a further top-up due the first week of August, so as I said, things are still moving in the background because there's a lot of things that are different this year with McCloud, and there's further development that will go on into certainly the end of this calendar year, so certain processes we can't do on the system. We have to do it outside the system, and some of that comes down to obviously, again, what data we've actually received as well, so somebody who would maybe have, say, a divorce, a transfer in, and also tax issues, a big bulk of that would be manual calculations, which, because it's that complex bits of the pension area as well, do take considerable length of time. As I said, so that's why we've tried to create where we can our own off-altair calculations to speed that process up, but certainly from last October when it first came in, what would normally, would still be a long period to do the calculation where it might be an hour to two hours to calc and check, and then issue was taken at least a day to be able to do that because obviously we've got to do the two sets of calculations. As I said, we're a little bit more automated than where we were previously, but it's still some of these complex bits that cause us problems and cause other administrator problems. If I'm being honest, it's not just the Haywood system. We've heard other systems have got problems. We've heard some other systems where they said quite early on that they wouldn't be looking to do the ABS RSS for the 31st of August, which is okay. You've still got to produce an ABS, but a rollback ABS based on the previous legacy scheme and obviously care from 22 because the ABS RSS technically doesn't need to go out till the 31st of March, but certainly our stance was always we'd prefer to get them out on the 31st of August. First of all, it helps the members. Secondly, it fits in with the normal process of things and again, because we've got a lot of extra work on and small complex work with McLeod, we didn't really want to be in a position where we're sending out an old standard normal ABS and then having to produce another one within six months. It's like duplicating quite a bit of work. So as I said, we are working to hit that 31st of August as long as we've got the data in, and if we don't have the data, obviously we'll produce those as quickly as we possibly can. Same with the calculations, quite a few of them go through okay, but it's just those complex ones where they've got these extra levels of work that is not quite automated enough for us to trust it so that, as I said, but we're trying to semi-automate that as much as we possibly can where we can. Thank you. So just to one question from me, where we have a retirement coming up or an important event, you know, death or something like that, we are, my question is, are we, we're doing this manually, we're not just putting it in a, you know, putting in the desk and hoping and waiting for the Altair to get delivered. So we are, but we are processing. Yeah, we progress them. So yeah, as I said, it'll just be on a more of a manual basis, which normally would mean it'll take a little bit longer than what we'd normally would need to do if it was automated Any comments or questions from members on this important point? No. Thank you very much, Graham, perhaps you'd continue with your report. Thank you. Yeah. Obviously we also have the member self-service there. And again, this, this becomes even more important now, especially with regards to the ABS RSS. So if the board's not aware, the ABS RSSs will be available as a document on member self-service. So it's important obviously for members to have registered and access member self-service. So we have asked for email addresses for all active members. And so we can pre-populate where people hasn't, haven't registered as yet, their email address, and obviously we'll be providing a list of those people who aren't registered. So we can actually obviously focus communication on them to access member self-service and then also get them in the ABS RSS. So there's too many, three of that acronyms and pensions. So, and as I said, cause obviously the important bit for these ABS RSSs is the fact that once they're issued, the members have 12 weeks to decide if they either want to pay the arrears of contributions they possibly may know of, may or if they're going back into the 92 scheme up to 22, or potentially if they're an 06 member, get a refund of contributions for that period. But they only have that 12 week window from when that ABS is issued. And so again, it'd be important for those members obviously to get online to have a look at those documents and they are sizeable documents. I would say they're at least 11 pages long LGA have brought out a standard document that hopefully all administrators will be using. So obviously no matter where you are as a firefighter, they will be picked up and everyone's seen the same document with the same information on it. But as I said, there's a lot of information on there that members need to take. It's not just a case of looking at which gives the biggest figure, cause obviously there's slightly different benefits depending on which scheme you go into. And so again, it's important for members to be part of that, but again, once we've got those we'll provide like some draft comms, you can amend it as you see fit. But again, it's just trying to get as close to a hundred percent, certainly for actives as we can. Thank you. I do note that our take up rate is significantly higher than your average, which is good. Maybe if we're communicating shortly to the membership, we reemphasize, re-mention that it would be helpful for them to register. Would that be a good point? Yes. Yep. Okay. Thank you. And again, in the new report, I'm going to get this tidied up a little bit more. So it's just literally saying who's registered, who's not registered to give the numbers and also that age profile as well. The way the current report does it is obviously is just who in that age profile is registered, which it'll probably just match your membership numbers. So we're changing that slightly. So it'll actually give you what percentage of under 22s are registered and also all the way through obviously those age brackets. So again, it gives a little bit better idea of who's registered on MSS and as the Israeli gaps and maybe again helps focus that communication if it's a certain age group that's not registered or not. Certainly the figures I've seen recently, strangely, the younger population is less likely to be registered for member self-service, but that might be because they're further away from retirement and not as interested in their pensions because it's a long way off. Next section, we've got data quality. Again, we've recently invested in a new reporting tool through Haywood. And so it's made it as much quicker and easier to actually do common and scheme specific data now. So obviously you'll be receiving these as we go on. Common data looks very good. Scheme specific, although that looks a lot lower because it's to do with scheme specific, it does tend to be a low percentage. One of the key ones is HMRC, because as you know, because of a cloud pension savings statements weren't issued last year. So again, that's where some of those fails are coming through. So we're hoping obviously after this year, when we've done the dual year pension saving statement, those percentages will improve as we go. But obviously at the moment, it'll be saying that there's some failures there because it wouldn't be shown last year as a pension savings statement being produced. So could you just say what that actually means? We hold the, what does it mean? How are we not holding the members' food or whatever? Yeah, so normally on the 6th of October every year, obviously those people who have breached would get a pension savings statement and then they would be determined whether there is a tax bill to pay basically. And because of McLeod last year, anybody who came under McLeod cohorts didn't receive a pension savings statement because of the fact that obviously the benefits were due to change, which could affect what they actually would owe. And so it was then agreed that this year there would be a dual pension savings statement which would take into account of last year, but also the fact that everyone's been rolled back into their legacy scheme up to 2022, which changes things like you carry forwards if the benefits are different. Therefore, obviously there was no point sending a pension savings statement last year because it probably would be incorrect because it hasn't got those new roll forwards. So this year, as I said, it'll be, it'll cover last year and this year on the pension savings statement with correct roll forwards as the members would be in the legacy schemes. And as I said, then obviously that they'd then have to go away and obviously determine whether there is still a tax bill, they're payable and it's just the way the report works is it would expect something there, but because it isn't there last year, it's saying it's a fail where it's not really fail. Understood. Uh, I think as we see this new report quarter by quarter, if there's actions we can take to help and improve the percentages, uh, you, you need to let us know. Yeah, no, that's fine. Um, I said, and if you look at the common data as well, the one that tends to fail is things like addresses, um, mainly because, um, there'll be things like where somebody had an attempt to be deferred, where we'll send something out and we'll get it back has gone away. Um, so therefore, obviously we don't hold the address because of that, it's a fail basically. Uh, thank you. Just a quick question with regards to the annual benefit statements and the pension savings statements. You mentioned that they would be saved in the member self service area. Will we still be emailing those out to people or will we be emailing to say that they're on the service area or will we just expect them to go and access themselves? Uh, there'll be a communication to say that they would need to go on there and access that themselves via their member self service portal. Thank you. Thank you. If you want to continue please, Graham. Yep. And then obviously we're looking at the case is complete. Um, okay. I don't sugar coat these things may was particularly bad, um, below 40%, uh, April seemed to start off quite well, then it's dropped and it's come back up. And this is where I was talking about the general cases though, um, technically speaking, if we remove those general cases, uh, April would have been 80%, 70% for May and 80% for June. So as you can see, it's that they do have quite a significant draw on those overall percentages. Um, and I said, it's quite difficult to categorize them cause it could be almost anything. Um, but I said, we'll give you the breakdown of what those actually are. And again, we're hoping this is obviously as, as that more automation comes through, we'll be getting back to where we should be with these, as I said, um, I'm disappointed in those quite significantly, if I'm honest, um, there should be a lot higher than that. Our standards are normally a lot higher than that than normally in the nineties, at least. Um, as I said, we're pushing to get back to that level. Um, and hopefully, as I said, the change we're bringing in the changes obviously to the system as that's updated. Um, and again, as, as things like McLeod and the ABS extra work that's coming through eases off, again, we can focus people on, um, so things like the training session for, or the testing session for ABS is, is pulling a couple of our quite senior people away who've got quite a bit of that knowledge, but obviously it's, we feel that it's really important to make sure that these ABS has got correctly. Um, and the fact that obviously the system's working as we expect, we don't want to have it going out and even if 50% correct and 50% incorrect, we wouldn't get as a hundred percent basically that the information that members are receiving is exactly what they should be receiving. Um, but as I said, it does have a draw on our resource in total. Um, so I said, so hopefully as we go through this year, you'll see those certainly quarter by quarter, improving a lot more than what we're showing here at this point in time. And then the next section, I said, we've got more, just hold on a second. Got some questions. I sent them. Thank you chair. Yeah. Thanks for that information. Graham. I mean, certainly those figures echo some of the frustrations by our members. Um, some of the, the, the deadlines for completion, the time taken for the requests to be met, haven't been great. Um, I think you might correct me if I'm wrong at a previous pensions board. We agreed that we would also have a look back at the previous quarter to be able to compare trends. Um, that doesn't seem to be here, here. Can we look to put that back into the report so we can look at how we perform quarter one last year? So it gives it an indication and a comparison with previous performance. Yes. I guess we typically see a buildup don't we through the year. Uh, but when you get to the first quarter, you've, you've kind of lost the previous year. So, uh, Graham, can you take that on board in your, um, your rewrite of this? Uh, I think I'm going to make myself, I'm going to make myself look good. The new report actually has that in there as an overview at the very beginning of this is what the stats are. I've been over the past 12 months basically, but I can expand it up to 15. So you've got Q one Q one say, so at least then you can see exactly what that is. That's very helpful. And could, could I just ask while we're on this, one of the, um, points I've raised several times is a backlog because, um, you see cases completed. You can see whether the within or outside of target. And, um, sometimes when you're catching up a backlog, you will have a lot of cases completed outside of target. So that's not necessarily bad because it's showing there's a catch up. So the information about how many you have in your hopper at the end of a month or at least at the end of a quarter would be quite good. So we can gauge, um, the overall situation. Um, uh, is this something you can add to your new reports please? Yeah, I'll do that as well for your chair. Thank you. Uh, please, uh, please continue. Um, and yeah, then as I said, obviously that was the overview in total, but then obviously you've got a breakdown per month next with regards to obviously the breakdown of each individual case that we then report on. Um, so again, the, I'm going to keep going on, I'll leave those, uh, so obviously you've got your estimates on there, which again, at this moment, are still low than where we expect them to be. Um, we have had a very much focus as you'd expect on the options and the payments, um, because obviously that has to do with somebody retiring and we want to make certain obviously that people are getting paid as close to the retirement date as we possibly can. Um, and again, that, that tends to be the trend all the way through, um, most. So I'll leave it. If there's any questions on those. None at this end. So if you can proceed, thank you. And then obviously complaints as well, um, it was something that we weren't shown as well, the previous, I think was the time to see if the comeback is nailed and we've got a new process in place from then. So one is just totally focused on if there's any complaints coming in. So again, we have a breakdown on pretty much a month by month and quarter by quarter basis. Um, and also a breakdown of actually what those relate to, um, on the complaints front, um, but also to show what's still live and what's been completed. So although since January 24, we've had about 10 complaints come through, all of those should have had responses and completed off. Um, and again, the big one is of retirement options and again, retirement options were going out quite late again, part of it that was to do with the manual processes that we had in place. Um, so we understood where that was coming from and obviously pension benefits as well. Thank you. Um, Graham, it's quite difficult to distinguish between live cases and completed cases in your, um, uh, bar charts at the very bottom it's um, right. They're both. Right. I'll get that changed then. So yeah, I'll move. I'll change those so that you can actually see I'll make it a bit easier. Yeah. No, that's fine. I'll get that amended. Um, I said, I've not seen any IDPs come through as yet, um, then we have a cloud update. So again, one, one of the key things seem to be obviously members, um, thinking that obviously lump sums have to be paid on date of retirement. So one of the things that we wanted to show was when actually, uh, lump sums were being repaired compared to retirement date, whether it was within that first week of retirement or if it's over seven days of retirement, um, because obviously as an FRA, the numbers themselves aren't huge that go through each month. We top part, we want to show you where we are with regards to all of our police and fire clients, um, just to give a better idea of where the trend is going, that trend does seem to be improving as we go along. Um, and as I said, but then we've also wanted to break it down, obviously for sorry, fire as well of where we are, um, which again, doesn't look as good because it's a lot smaller numbers, but again, we want to try and make certain that obviously that we're, uh, getting things paid and I'll probably look to try and add something in there. So if it is over seven days, we can actually say why that is because again, it's based on when it's been paid, which would be our issue. We might've been late and it's, um, but it could be that the members sent something in late date received might've been late. So again, I'll just put some narrative on there if it's over seven days. So at least then, you know, as I said, um, if I look at Matt, I'll look at May, there's two that was over seven days, why were those two over seven days? So I'll put some narrative into the next report as well for that. Thank you. Um, and then as I said, under this new report, we've moved regulation guidance to the back. Um, obviously as an FRA, you would probably receive these anywhere through the LGA. Um, so we just wanted to put them in there in case you haven't seen them. Um, June's not in there mainly just from the time of when this report was originally drafted. Um, but again, we'll update those for the next report as well. Thank you. Uh, can I ask if there's any further comments in the room? No. Thank you. Thank you, Graham, for the, um, for the explanations. Uh, so we're asked to note the report and clearly we've captured a number of, uh, comments in the agenda here. Thank you very much. If that's agreed, we'll move on. Um, so, uh, our next, um, topic is fire bulletins. So this probably carries on from the, uh, the summary we've got in the, um, in the XPS report. So, um, Danny, Gary and Joe, I'll really ask you for items you think should be brought to our attention. Uh, there's obviously always a very long list of, uh, things that come out. So things you feel the board should, um, be aware of. Yeah, the domain, obviously the benefit statements, the delay in that, and that's the main thing that's going to be, have an impact, which we're obviously working and we've covered already. Um, apart from that, we just got to get the, with, with the, the Matthews cases and everything, just got to get it in place. We're just going to look at the completion of the Matthews cases, which we're, we're doing, looking at procedure, setting up all of that. So there's different tranches of membership. So that's going to take a while to sort of figure out each one of them. Um, but apart from that, nothing is necessarily, I can see there that, uh, that it's necessarily of concern anyway. Thank you. It's all information to help you process things, et cetera. Sally. So, um, thanks, Gary. Just with regards to that, then I know that, um, a number of the, um, bulletins have included, um, elements where we've needed to do, um, various returns, um, deadlines included in terms of when activity has got to be completed. So, um, are you comfortable that we're able to, um, to meet those, uh, those deadlines as well? Yep. Yep. So we're, we're sort of, for example, Matthews, we're, we're roughly halfway through the project with the stats we got, we sort of halfway through sort of getting the statements out. So I think we're, we're, we're on track to, to get everything completed. Any returns that are needed to OGA are going to be supplied so everything is being done that's required. Yes. And I, and I note that some have got some quite helpful, um, information for, um, members, uh, as well. So, um, are we continuing to make sure that we do some communication out with FAQs, et cetera, updated to, uh, support that as well? Yeah. I'm going to be looking at the, the comms. Uh, I need to sit down with, with, uh, with Jo and sort of look at, look what we need to do and what we need to go ahead to, to update members because we're getting more coming through. Uh, there's, there's issues with putting the settlements into, into payment. So we need to make members aware of that. We are keeping them aware, um, sort of on an individual basis, but we need to look more to sort of do some, yeah, sort of, sort of, uh, comms to everyone. Uh, there's, looking yesterday, it seems to be more update with, uh, sort of standard communications on the OGA website. Um, I've only just recently got a log into that. So I've been sort of going in, having a look at, having a look at that and all the different statements. So they, they continue continuously updating. They put something on there recently, which was very handy. It's almost like an idiot's guide to Matthews, which is exactly what we need to, to, to look at how the administration is. I think the, the majority of services are feeling the same. There's a lot of work to do. Um, it's obviously affecting BAU, et cetera. So we, we need to be aware what exactly we need to do and, and when we need to do it. So they've put this together. Um, currently looking at putting a project plan as well together, uh, updating the project plan for the, for the pensions project. So that, that's all in, in, in the pipeline as well. Thank you. Thanks, Jack. Thank you. Thank you. Just to add to that, I think there's probably some work we can do to keep, as we are at the moment, but the SharePoint site, keeping it updated in line with the bulletins and the communications. So it's one very effective method, I would suggest, that individuals can access to understand what those updates are. And there's a, an ability within that to put in the news items, which we have, so if we continually update those news items within the SharePoint site, then it's got the up-to-date information in there as well. Just another method of being able to allow those members to understand what's current as well as what obviously already is there in a guidance and support mechanism. We'll be just linking with Maria as well and see if there's any benefit to include a little snapshot in the newsletter, just in terms of the latest bulletin and then direct them, and then we might just get more traffic coming through the newsletter into the SharePoint site. Yeah, and we could do signposting from the newsletter to the site, yeah, no worries. Thank you. Any further comments or questions from board members on this report? No? Thank you. So, we're asked to note this report. Is that agreed? Yes. Thank you very much. So, let's go on to the risk register, so that's page one, two, three. I mean, we have been clearly covering many of these issues as we've moved forward, so I'll ask, ask officers to introduce the report, please. Thanks, Nick. I think the key one on the risk register, really, to make note of today, and we have talked to it already, is the payroll information going over to XPS for the ABS statements. That has been logged on that risk register, and it's also reflected in the service risk register as well, and that it's quite a high risk, and obviously, we are doing everything we can at this stage to ensure we get that information over to them as quickly as we can to allow for those benefit statements to be produced. Thank you. Okay. Glyn. Just a, thank you, Chair. Just a quick general question. Is it my imagination, or did the risk register used to be RAG stated? I know, obviously, the tables below do that, but there's no RAG on the actual -- has that been removed, or was it? It wasn't there when I first saw it, so I don't know if it's been removed or otherwise. It would be quite helpful to have it on that actual table, just to focus our attention on some of those. Yeah, we've -- I mean, we have changed this to move away from, I think, the way that the LGPS scheme used to do it, and I thought we'd move to a FAS service standard for these registers. I personally can't comment on that, but Sally, does it look familiar? Do you -- do you RAG rate the -- your risks more generally in the FAS service? We do. We do. So I think we can ensure that that's back into the reports, and also just making sure that we've captured within there the likelihood impacts and the overall scores as well, because I can see that there's some missing through that report. So, yeah, I think for next time we can make sure that that's updated. Yeah, I think that'd be really useful. It's a really good point raised. The Surrey one, the service one, has changed a few times over the last few years, so it may be that it's just not -- we've just not changed it in line with that, so it would be really useful to do that and carry that exercise out so we can have the RAG rating and be able to identify quicker those that are more -- Maybe, Sally, something you -- you'll know whether -- if we're following the Surrey standard or if we're -- you know, we've got our FAS service one, I mean, I don't mind, as long as we're consistent and knowledgeable about what we're doing and we're -- we've made appropriate judgments to say we're going with this version or we're moving more up to date. So, Sally, is that something you can liaise with Danny with and just make sure you're content with the way we're presenting these things? Yes, and I think it's helpful for it to have that consistency within it, because there's a number of items here that are reported on our service level risk register as well, because of the complexities around pensions, so we do need to ensure that they're -- that they're lining up. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you. And does -- is that a responsibility you have, more generally, and risk -- Yes, yes. -- it is? Okay. Right. So I can take -- We're going to the right person then. Thank you very much. Okay. Any points on this? No. Thank you. Thank you very much. So recommendation is we note the risk register, and also the date of our next meeting is 21st of November. That's the final item on the agenda. So that's a bit longer than -- it's four months, isn't it, rather than three months. So we have more around the calendar year end, and we have a bit of a break here. But I would ask -- and we've noted a number of things the board would like to be informed about as we go forward. I think we -- if you can, Danny, keep us advised of things we ought to know as a board by sending appropriate emails out, that would be good. And perhaps we could copy you so -- just so you're aware of what communications have been outside of the regular meetings. I think that would be useful. No problem. Great. Thanks. That agreed as well. Okay. Thank you. And can I thank XPS, Graham, and Sharon for attending. Any further -- any final comments as we sign off? Nothing from us, no, thank you. Thank you very much. Okay. I'll join this meeting to a close, and I'm sure we'll be speaking before November, but certainly hope to see you then in any event. Thank you very much.