Transcript

Thank you very much. So, first of all, welcome to tonight's meeting. My name is Casa Rory Vaughan, chair of the economy arts, sports and public realm policy and accountability. So, before we begin, just some housekeeping points. First of all, the meeting has been live streamed on YouTube. So, by taking part, you're consenting to be recorded. Secondly, please can officers introduce themselves before speaking for the first time. And you'll perhaps be pleased to hear there are no scheduled fire alarm tests. But if the fire alarm signs are the journal meeting, please leave the meeting in an orderly fashion. By the staff fire exit, which is behind and into my lines. And officers will direct you to the assembly point in Riverside Gardens. So, without further ado, item number one is apologies for absence. We've received apologies for absence from Councillor June, Councillor Andrew Jones, Councillor Sharon Holder, Councillor Liz Collins and think for lateness, but possibly absence from Councillor Ashok Patel. Are there any more? Apologies. No chair. Thank you. Item number two, do any members have any declarations of interest? I'd like to note those ones. Okay. Thank you. And do members agree the minutes of the meeting held on the 5th of February? I do agree. Okay. Thank you very much. So, on to the first item item number four, on tonight's agenda. And that's the highways contract review. And presenting, I think is going to be Ian Hawthorne, who's the assistant director. Highways, who is joining us online this evening. So, Ian, it's over to you, I think. Okay. Can you hear me? Okay. Might need to turn it up a little bit. Is that better? Yes. I can hear you at all for a second. Okay. So, Ian Hawthorne, I'm the assistant director for highways. I've been leading highways for about 12 years, so I'm going to run you through the highways contract and go through the challenges that we have in highways. I think the most important thing is to list the assets that we've actually got, and we've got an awful lot. This is kind of a snapshot of what assets we look after. It doesn't include all street furniture, so not the 800 bollards or the 12,000 illuminated signs and non-illuminated signs. So, there's a whole host of them. There's also cycle hoops as well and cycle provision, but it gives you a bit of a snapshot of what we look after in highways. We're quite a small bower. It's six miles long, two miles wide, but we do pack in a lot in Hammersmith and Fulham. So, there's a lot of assets. Our present contract is an RB KC framework, which we did work together with them in 2017. We started using it in 2018, and it's split up into eight different contract areas. You'll notice that Conway's won five of the six, so I'm going to be talking a lot about Conway's through this presentation. I'm pretty straightforward, Pavin's footways, asphalt is carriage ways, projects is all schemes that we do, street lighting, obviously lamp columns and some of the EV charging we've done. Structures tends to be more on the inspection and monitor inside, and the drainage is the one that Kappa have got, and that's the galley repairs that we do in our borough, and we've got 10,000 of those you who sing on the on the list. Just a little indication of the works you've ever seen and before. This is what we do. At the top it's night works in one's work bridge road. There's some street lighting works. There's some telegraph road work service in works, which we only did a couple of weeks ago, and some of the paving that we've done in North End Road, so it's sometimes specialist stuff we do as well. The contract, so the contract, it doesn't guarantee any works. I know that people find that quite amazing, but our contract doesn't say we have to give any minimum work on the other KC framework, but of course we do have lots of maintenance work, so we do give the works. There's about 12,000 items on the specification, so there's a lot of different items to use. We don't make any payments on planned maintenance or any works we do unless we do a joint inspection. We have to agree what is done and the standard that he's done to. We as the client determine all the materials that are used. Conway's and even Capra are allowed to suggest materials, but actually the ultimate say for the materials we use are offices. All transactions on the contract go through an order on the asset management system called Confirm, so everything goes through Confirm, whether that's an officer going out, one of my inspectors going to do an inspection or an officer doing a small bit of minor works to a big planned maintenance works, everything goes through Confirm and it's logged to the second, so we have an audit trail of exactly what's done when we've done it and when it's completed. The contract is an interesting one in highways. We have daily interactions, so it's not unusual. Today, for example, I've been in contact with Conway several times. My officers are exactly the same. We are completely in contact with our contractors nearly all the time, so there is a joint partnership working about how we deliver the service. Unsurprisingly, because it's in the public realm, we're heavily regulated on safety. We can apply the CDM, which is the construction of design and management regulations, and we do the principal design as well. Safety is a fundamental of highways and also fundamental of the highways contractor. Governance is kind of set by the contract, so we have various layers of governance, as well as the daily contact. There is a strategic board, which I chair, that would be directors and senior managers from FM Conway's. We meet quarterly and it's high level. It will talk about the various programs. We've got any issues we see going forwards, any major works that are happening, innovation around climate change, we've discussed things like mental health awareness, which is some of the work we focused on. It covers quite a high level, and then below that is the operational board, which meets each month that covers all the programs that are happening with their street lighting or their footway or their carriage way. It covers health and safety, so we get a dashboard from Conway's. That tells us all the incidents that would have happened during that month. Any near misses, any safety issues that's covered in that dashboard. We talk about finances and we talk around performance and what work programs are coming up. The smaller level is the actual task order groups, and each service area, so each one of those lots that you see will have its own individual task groups, which is led by service managers, and they're really honed in and focused on that particular area. Then there's obviously some specialist ones, like there's Hammersmith bridge stabilization, there's the CMS intelligent lighting, so that's the intelligent lighting system we've just put in, electrical vehicle charging. We've also just completed and galley, so it's a really focused level board that is led by the service manager for the area. In 2017, when we started working on the RBKC framework, social value was not really part of the procurement process, but yet we have actually got a great deal of social value from the framework. In the past, they've funded the civic honours, they've allowed our staff to go and do training free of charge. Some of the mental health first data course, our HR staff, went on that course with Conway's and Conway's supporters on that, so they've done a lot of that type of work that they've funded some of the street parties that we've done, so they've done quite a bit around social value and apprenticeships, and they actually recruit into one of their driving forces, which is the Highways Academy, and that's been going for nearly 10 years, where they're pushing the idea that they really want young people to go into engineering and into highways, so they've done a lot of work around there, but I thought I'd show you some recent examples, so these are literally in the last few months. So the first one, and I've put it as a case study as well, is we had a request from children's services about some properties that they had for young adults, which needed some repair and some upkeep, and so what Conway's did was they went into those free properties, and they did some landscaping of the gardens to make them more usable, and they delivered those free of charge, redesigned them, as you can see from the photograph, made them more usable, and I know that children's services were really appreciated, that Conway's actually doing that, and the other bit that Conway's been doing with us as well, is around education, so the Hammersmith Bridge Education Program, it's been going for about three years now, this is its third year, and it's bringing engineers, and that's our engineers, that's FM Conway's engineers, and some of our consultant engineers, and putting them into schools to talk around STEMs and engineering, and how that fits into how we do our work in highways. It's in two parts, we do a workshop where we actually work with the children, and that includes our apprentices as well as the engineers, and they design, and then they make a model suspension bridge, and you've kind of seen that in the photograph, and they are doing that work at the moment, and we've reached out to, we've done about 150 local pupils, it's about five schools that we've been in, and the flip side of that, the other part of that is we Conway's also host a visit to Hammersmith Bridge, and we talk about the history of the bridge, we talk about engineering, the kind of work we're doing, and how STEMs is very important to that. I've added this in, because FM Conway's cover a lot of boas, I think it's 15 under boas they cover, and it's some of the charity work they do, so I thought I'd add that's part of the social value. Contract performance, so I've done it in six lots, and the contract management moves around a bit, to be honest, so where we are, as of when this was done, pavement and, well, footways and carriage way surfacing was in an extremely good place, so they'd completed their contract, the program, to schedule on time, and we were getting a lot of compliments from people who liked the work they did, because they were on time that were courteous, and they actually got the program delivered, I think they started in April, and they finished in December last year, so well ahead of any schedule program works we'd ever done before, and that gave us time to start doing the work we needed to do the program for this year, so lots of, we actually got a few compliments for the service, so both of these are very good, but contracts are very different, they're variable, they don't always stay very good or good, sometimes they don't, they're not good, so street lighting has had a few issues, I put it at SaaS factory, but they are on an improvement plan, which they're working rivers on at the moment, it means a lot of our focus goes on street lighting, it also means that their task force group, which I mentioned before, is actually weekly rather than every couple of weeks, so we really hone in on when the performance is an issue, same with project, project is in a better place, but that is good at the moment because they're working with us and they're part of all the programming and the design work is actually together, so we've seen improvement in that area, and the other areas are good as well, so the structure as well is more around inspection and monitoring, which is quite a small part of the contract, but they deliver works on time and they do it well, and the drainage and gully repairs is very good, they deliver on time, the cleansing program is ahead of schedule and you know the repairs program is done to time and to good standards, an example of that was that they actually worked in northern road, they actually did the work before Thameswater did their sewer work, and they were on time on schedule down and out Thameswater to get in when they said they would. A little snapshot of the dashboards that I would get as a service manager, so these are monthly, this is one in December, and as you can see what when I talked about the performance moving around, for me I'll hone in on the on the footway, which is 24 hours at 0.5, that's not acceptable, it should always be zero with two hour reports, that has improved greatly, so that's where they've moved back into into very good, so this performance is focused all the time around how they do things and where they are and how they're responding, and as you can see I've not been in my presentation, I think in my report I don't think I mentioned potholes, I know that's a very popular subject potholes, but I mentioned them here, we had two hundred and eight three potholes just before the beginning, end of last year, it's not gone up more than that, we do apply a process called a Stitch in Time where we try and get to defects before they turn into what people call potholes, so there is a bit of a push on our side, and Conway's assigned up to that. I thought I would cover some of the risks, so the contractors are dealing with a lot of risks, so public utilities are probably the biggest issue that we have in highways and Conway's, and it's a bit of a joint effort when I talk about Conway's, they're kind of the physical arm of us engineers in highways, so you've got to, at the top you've got a very neat picture of illustration of what the services look underneath the road, and when we talk of highways, what people see above tends to be where they stop thinking about highways, whereas we think of what's below, so that's a very neat illustration of where all the apparatus are. Right next to it is actually what it looks like in reality, we get a lot of issues with apparatus not being in the right place, so there's a whole saga around where assets are and where they're where they're supposed to be and often they're not, and obviously you know other people's asset apparatus actually impact our asset greatly, we call something called a slow leak, it's when a water main is not ruptured but it's leaking and that's not detected for some time and it undermines the highways underneath it, so our highway is very reliant on the stuff that's in it and around it and on top of it, so the man all covers a part of that saying I works make a great issue for us, so we have to manage our works in a certain way. Working in public space requires a high level of risk assessment and assurance, there's no surprise there, the highways open is open 365 days a year, 24/7, lots of people use it, you know our stakeholders is everybody in the world who wants to come to Hammersmith and use our highway, so you know there's a lot of pressure on them to make sure that we try and keep our highways safe and make it accessible as we possibly can. No surprises, weather plays a big factor, so if we get lots of rain that has issues around footways and certainly has lots of issues around carriageways, you kind of see more potholes if you get extended levels of rain, but equally our highway doesn't really like heat either, so when we had the heatway we start seeing problems with carriageways deteriorating also footways. Community plays a big factor in how we do highways works, so we try and avoid to do nightworks because we know that residents don't like nightworks, sometimes that that is just not avoidable, so that's how we plan our works, that's how we plan with Conway's, so we work together to deliver projects and schemes and so we factor in lots of variables about how we deliver works, how much communication we do and how we need to plan those. Highway space is in demand and people think that as highways we would get automatic access to our highway, you'd be surprised that there are 16,000 works in Hammersmith every year on average. I think I calculated it worked out at something like 30,000 workdays if you added up all the durations together, so we have to make sure that we coordinate our works with public utility works and there are a lot of them, the ratio is something like 60% to 40, so 60% of that 16,000 is actually utility works compared to 40% of hours and hours tend to be quite small jobs, so you get, you can see where the balance is, but fitting our works in with utility works is a constant challenge for us to make sure that we manage our network. You'll notice that we tend to do a lot of our works in school holidays when the network is slightly quieter, but that does become a challenge when everybody wants to work at the same time. And also we're vulnerable to events and development as well, so our plan maintenance is kind of reliant on knowing when developments are going to happen, because we don't tend to do plan maintenance when we know development is going to happen because it simply will damage our highway and obviously we've got three football clubs, so managing our work around those events are quite challenged, but we've got the boat race, we've got a number of big events in the borough. So we are now in a place where, you know, we're in the extension of the contract, we need to have a new contract on the 1st of April 2026, we have explored a number of options, we were in talk to Westminster maybe to do a joint framework to reduce costs, but that's not proved quite practical, so I think we're in the place now that we will probably do a standalone Hammer Smith and Fulham contract. We're looking at the usual options you'd expect from a highways contract, so it's designed and built, it's lighting, it's safety inspections, it's going to service drainage and gullies, but it's also the footways and carriageways we would normally do. We want to extend that slightly beyond that because we want to look at ground works, green in the grey because we do a lot of greening works, the horticultural side of the contract as well, so we want to explore that, and we also want to explore whether we can use a highways contract in housing and parks as well, so it's extended to the whole council and not just the highways. Climate change, sustainability, adaptation will all be key parts of how we design the next contract because they will be key factors, and how we have a sustainable highways is something that we're all working to in the highways industry. We've had a number of workshops, we've tried to gauge the market, we do talk to other borrowers, we work alongside a number of borrowers to produce reports like State of the City, which gives us an idea of where London is in terms of maintenance. And to finalise that, some of the findings we've had, when we first did the contract in 2017, you would probably see about a dozen contractors bid for any highways contract. If you fast forward that to now, you would probably find six at most bid for contracts, so the number of contractors bid in has decreased, but the number of factors, but that's the challenge to us because we've got a smaller bidding process, the costs have risen, so there's no surprise there. It's fuel materials labour, all of that has changed since we went out to contract in 2017. But we have noticed contracts have got longer, so we've done a survey of all the borrowers to see where they are with contracts. And then we did the 2017 contract, it was a five-year and a three-year. These days, you're looking more like 10 years, so it can be a seven and a three or an eight and a two, and we're seeing a lot more of that in London and when we talk to our colleagues in Westminster and Southwark, that's exactly the way they're going. So, looking at this new contract, I think we were probably looking at a longer-term contract, and that work has started now. But that, in a nutshell, is the highway's maintenance contract. Thank you very much. I think my friends have turned up quite loud, so take that into account. We'll just go to comments and questions from the member, sorry, Mr Ray, I don't know. Excellent. Thank you very much, Ian, and I read the papers before and also the extra things you've done there are very good. Just a couple of observations and a few questions. In the contract performance indicators, site health and safety inspection was only satisfactory. And I know not everything can be very good, but in the new contract, I would be hoping that we would be able to impress upon people that that needs, that's the first and foremost thing, isn't it, site health and safety, if that can be improved. And also respect for the environment was only satisfactory as well. And I know that a lot of work's taken place since, but again, that would be a factor. There's just two things there. But on a very positive, I noticed that asphalt resurfacing was very good. Yeah. And having spent part of the Easter holiday driving outside of London in authorities, not run by Labour, I came across quite a few potholes. In fact, many more than I expected to. And I noticed in that report that we've got a good record on winter gritting, which I think is crucial. It's not the only thing that creates potholes, but I think congratulations to the teams that have done that. But I mean, we shouldn't take our eye off the ball with potholes, but it seems to me that I'm not going to say we're in a good place, but we recognize that's an issue. And we recognize that quick work is appropriate for that. But again, I was absolutely amazed. I hear about it on the radio, but you know, some parts of the country, I could not believe how dangerous it was driving down some roads. Anyway, for the future. You seem to rule that out going in with anybody else. Westminster, you've made those things judgments. And I noticed that I think it's point 21 or something. You talk about possibly bringing grounds maintenance and horticultural in as well. And whilst I could say that'd be a positive, just slightly wary that if you make things too big, sometimes you lose some of the dynamics that localism can bring. And I think we've got a good record on that in Hammersmith and Fulham. So just to be aware of that. And then again, you can say the same about a long-term contract. I think if that's the reality of the marketplace, well, perhaps that's the route we have to go down. But we need to be open-eyed about that, the length of contracts. But and just one question I'd ask about that is to ask whoever we're going to go into contract with about this staffing. Because the employment rates are quite critical, aren't they? In all industries at the moment, in London and elsewhere. And, you know, 10 years is a long time. And we need to be clear that they can satiate the demands with their staff. I mean, I asked this question when I went to Veolia the other month deliberately to see if they could recruit in this market. And they said they could. And they showed me evidence that they were doing so. So I think that's just a few observations, really. But thank you very much for the report. I don't know whether you want to comment on any of those points. Thank you. So I'll start back at the beginning with the performance. What we're seeing is some of the smaller sites. And the minor works is where we see the issues. The plan works, where there are scheme works. They tend to be excellent. And you're like, we do come down hard on comways when they're doing the smaller sites. So that's already in process. And we'd expect that from any contractor to look off their sites. Every site's important. It doesn't matter what the work is or what they do. You can't just do the big plan stuff. You've got to do the small stuff as well. In terms of taking it around the other way. In terms of recruitment in the industry, it's something I'm quite passionate about. So I uploaded comways 10 years ago when they opened the highways academy. I wanted young people. Especially girls and young women to come into our industry because it's a great industry to work with. So it was comways who opened the first highways academy. And they do recruit from this borough and they do attend our job fairs. It's pretty crucial that we get out and talk to people around stems and engineering. And that's our future. That's the future people are going to be working in highways. I know we've done a lot of work comways, but we've done a lot of work with other contractors as well. And consultants to try and get that to where we need to be. In terms of polls, I didn't put it in the report, but we are second in London with the fewest number of pot holes. We do drive quite hard to try and pick up defects before they turn into pot holes. And your right conditions, the weather plays a huge part in seeing those potholes. So you may have noticed in the news, we had a really wet July last year. And it meant that we saw what we call pothole season, which tends to be December and January on the industry term. We were seeing that much more before winter. And so, you know, the boroughs were struggling with dealing with potholes because the water exacerbates it gets into whatever failures there are and exaggerates that. So, you know, we're always on the lookout in terms of high levels of rain and frost and winter. So winter maintenance is really a challenge. As we run winter maintenance, my officers do a 24/7 service. So from the 1st of October to the -- well, it used to be the 31st of March. Now it's the end of April. We do a 24/7 service. So officers like me were monitoring the weather, sending our critters out when the temperature goes below freezing. And so we're pretty proactive on that front. So we do a lot of work to make sure that we're getting our critters out there as soon as we can. But, yeah, those are all impacts on the actual highway. In terms of long-term contracts, yeah, I can appreciate that. The market seems to be going that way, and we did a survey of all London boroughs. And I've had conversations with Surrey and Essex and some of the counties as well. That does seem to be the way we're going. You can see some of the reasons why in London really suffers in terms of trying to find depots for contractors. And we're really short of spacing in London. So we're probably not as -- we don't have a really good offer in terms of depots in in London compared to, say, the outer London boroughs who have more space. So that tends to shape the contract as well. So lots of those factors are all in there. That's good. Hi, thank you very much for that. I've just got a couple of questions. I wanted to understand better more about why it's been ruled out to partner up with another borough, especially if saying the costs have risen and there's maybe opportunities to decrease costs by partnering up. So I just wanted to understand why that decision was made. The decision was made because Westminster wanted to do things a lot quicker than we could do and wanted to do. So we really want to review how we do the works contract to go across the board and make sure we've got everything in place. Westminster wanted to do that slightly quicker than we did. You might sometimes, if you join up, you get savings. That's true. But Westminster is a different borough to ours. We have similarities because we're linked in lots of -- we've lots of common ground, which is why we started talking to them in the first place. In terms of joining up with boroughs, it tends to be where you are in the cycle because lots of boroughs are already gone. So there's just a handful of boroughs where you get a chance to join a framework. Not completely ruled it out because there'll be some boroughs out there that might decide they want to do a framework and we might join. But the Westminster one has been ruled out because they actually want to mobilize a lot quicker than we do. And that causes us some issues because we really need to get to -- in terms of contract, there's an old saying, which is the devil's in the detail. Trust me, in contract, the devil is in the detail. Get the detail wrong and you spend a lot of time worrying about it and making lots of -- having to do lots of work to pull back that detail. So we wanted to take a bit of time to make sure we had really looked into in depth around the contract specification that we've got. And 20,000 items, there's a lot of items and whether that's all necessary. And there's a lot of work around sustainability. And there is talk -- we've talked about ground maintenance. We're moving to a much different type of highways asset. We're moving from a gray to a greening of the gray, which is what we used to do lots of ASP and Asheville. That's changing because sustainability is required and we got to adapt. And we're seeing a lot more heavy rainfall. So our asset needs to be better prepared to be able to deal with those changes. That means that the next contract we've got to factor in some of that -- that sustainability that wasn't in the previous contract. We're in a different world from 2017 to where we are now. And so we wanted to take a bit of time to make sure we got that right. And I'm not saying that Westminster are not trying to do that. But we wanted a bit more time to do that and they wanted to get on. So, you know, we still work together. We know I have joint meetings with Westminster and some of the -- lots of other boroughs. So that hasn't stopped. But we want to take some time to assess and make sure we do the right contract for Amazon. Okay, I understand. Thank you. So that was really loud. And just -- and forgive me if this isn't the right department. But one thing that does come up, quite often when you're talking about highway's works with residents, is a kind of frustration around feeling like the same piece of ground is dug up by one person. And that's all done. And then two weeks later, it gets dug up again. And so I was wondering, you know, if there was further scope to try and, you know, link people up so that we're not having telecoms one week drainage the next week. And because that does -- I think residents understand the works need to happen and that they're disruptive. But I think they do find it really kind of great on them when they feel the same bit is being dug up and put back again. And that is a frustration for me as well. So part of my other bit of work is I lead the team for network management, so I coordinate those works. An awful lot of work is done to actually make sure we collaborate and coordinate the works. You can't -- you can't factor for a damaged main or a service pipe going, then you are really stuck. What we have tried to do, and it is hard work, is get utilities to work with us when we do our plan maintenance program. In advance, the utilities have that plan maintenance. And we do encourage them to contact us to talk to us, to get in before we do. And that work is continuous. It is a bit hit and miss sometimes. Utilities have got their own programs. We do share. There are, you know, there are monthly meetings and there's a lot of information shared. And a lot of work goes on in coordination, and I appreciate people's frustration. The legislation as it is, though, allows utilities to jump in when we've done. So the legislation allows, for example, if it's an emergency to go into works that we've already done, and if it's a new connection. Even though we may have, you know, completely resurfaced a road within 28 days, if it's a new connection, they can go in. That's frustrating for us, because we want to work together. And there's been a lot of work with utilities to try and do that. So it is a work in progress. I hope you see, I hope you see some improvement soon, because we've been working hard on it for a very long time. I'm quite old, so I've been doing it for a long time. But yeah, we are moving closer to getting that collaboration better. But you're right, it is really frustrating. Okay, thank you very much. Yes, welcome, Councilor Patel. Did you have any questions? Can I apologize for my late insight? I had a mediation between on and on. Just a couple of points. On page 14, under the asset type. There's a reference to Hammersmith bridge. I couldn't see what the reference to that was. It's because it was, we don't have many structures, and the one big structure we have is Hammersmith bridge. So unlike other boroughs, we have lots of structures, we don't. We have a small amount of structures. So I put a start to make sure that I hadn't forgotten Hammersmith bridge, and being as I work on Hammersmith bridge, I could never forget Hammersmith bridge, but I wanted to make sure that you knew that I hadn't forgotten the Hammersmith bridge was our major structure. Fair enough. And the second point is on page 15 at Paragraph 8, all the contracts seem to be awarded to FM Conway, except for drainage repairs, which is going to Kappa. Can you explain why that is? Wouldn't it make sense to simply have one controller dealing with the whole thing as opposed to drainage repairs by Kappa and drainage cleansing by FM Conway? There's a really simple answer to that. Conway's didn't bid for the drainage repairs. It's not their full take, so they didn't actually bid for that. The five they bid for they got, the one they didn't bid for Kappa got. Thank you very much. So, Mr. Hawthorne, thank you very much for what was a very informative report and a good presentation. I've got a few questions following on from that, but there we go. So, the, I think two of them are possibly looking to, so I may just around a bit. So apologies if that's the case, but in terms of sort of looking forward, I wonder if you could tell us, I think we've touched on some of this already, in terms of the new contract that's going to be put in place in the near, well, presumably thinking about it in the next year or so, if it's going to go in place from 2026 is so what are the next steps and timings there, including what sort of consultation would you be doing more, more broadly? And what's the light, so sort of timing next steps, what consultation, what's the likely budget impact of that? I noticed that, so as you mentioned, there are fewer contractors in the market, but currently we're paying as we go to a certain extent. So is that, and then I wondered what's the sort of strategy. I'd refer to it quite a lot in the report in terms of that, which may be a question of the consultation around looking at issues like climate change and obviously all of the things that you're aware of in terms of potential impacts on the highway in the next highways and garageways and, if the payments in the next 10 years or so, particularly with the impacts of climate change and all, obviously the issues, sort of more current issues, obviously about tens of water and all of that, which I think is all about the sort of stuff that's actually in the ground and keeps being dug up and reshaped and one thing even another. So it started now, so we will be bringing somebody in to lead the procurement. There'll be lots of engagement, lots of consultation, because this is a contract we need to go through piece by piece. That process has started now, so I suspect we'll be bringing this back to PAC. Once we've started to do the work we need to do, we'll be testing the market because we are named as part of the TFL framework, so they're free TFL contracts, professional services, there's core highway services and a project's one. So we'll be taking test bites of each of those to test the market see where the pricing is, because TFL's framework has only just been renewed last year, so we can really get a feel for what the market looks like. Will there be higher prices? Yes, but we kind of tailor our works to be able to deal what prices we've got. We will look at new materials, and that's the challenge there, about how we do things as well. The whole life cost is some of the work we're doing. We've just done a complete survey of the bar to check every inch of it, and that includes accessibility, which is a real challenge, because we have our asset in London. It is quite a mixture, it's historical, it's an imperfect asset. You don't get straight roads, there's Victorian bits, there's bits that you can't really fathom out why you did that, but I'm sure if somebody had a good reason for doing that, we'd put trees into footways that are plain trees that get large and therefore reduce the width of the footway, and if we had thought about it, I suspect we probably wouldn't have done that, we certainly don't do that now. So we've got all of that work to be done. So in the next few months, we will be pulling it all together. The idea is to consult as we go. So we're talking to other borrowers to see what they're doing. So part of this initial response is that I've talked to other borrowers. I'm actually chair of the London Technical Advisory Group, so I represent all the other highway officers in London and co-chair with TFL, so we're talking to other borrowers about where they are with their contracts, and we know roughly where they are. Some have just started, some are in the middle. There's a few that will probably be in the same place as we are in a few years' time, but we really need to start, so we've started that process now. So once we've done it, some of that work will have a time scale of where we really want to be in terms of the procurement. But yes, it's now as time to start, and that's work we do in a moment. We're doing the prep work at the moment, ready for the procurement started. So you're quite right. It's crucial that we need to adapt our highway to be able to deal with a different climate than we're used to, because some of the highways' techniques we've been using, and we've been using it for a long time. They're hundreds of years old, so they're kind of stayed, and they're what we've done for a long time. There's a challenge to that, just like there's a challenge to where as before, we would be putting asphalt and ASP down. So paving slabs, we're looking at doing that slightly differently, maybe putting less of that down and maybe greening and maybe softer materials. We're going to be trialing asphalt materials that are porous, which is a very different feel to what we've done to helping in terms of flood mitigation. So all of that's got to be factored in. So I will come back to this committee and give you the schedule for doing that, because we're not far away from being able to do that, but that'll be another one of these committees. Thank you. Yeah, I think we want to hear more about the plans as they develop. I mean, I think actually what it brings to mind is actually there are lots of strategies elsewhere within the council. I mean, we talked about a tree strategy at a recent meeting, for example, which has the impact. So, you know, something that you clearly has an impact on highways and the right sorts of trees in the right area is one of the things that we were talking about. Obviously, it has an impact on all of the carriage way that you mentioned below it. Yeah. Similarly, there are stuff like these sun schemes that are put in place in various areas, which I'm assuming will potentially have more of. But I guess that also speaks to more permeable surfaces that we might want to see around the place to sort of reduce the amount of contracts and concrete that we've got. Right around the place. So just onto another sort of slight difference has questions. I wonder if you could tell us a bit more sort of, particularly as local council is about how. Streets are, you know, highways in streets are prioritised for maintenance. I mean, obviously some of them you see are in. What looks like a rugged condition, whereas others are. I should say the Glenthorne road is looking in a good condition now. It's been resurfaced. It looks like a yes. All in green compared to the. The state it was in just a few months ago. But I wonder if you could tell us more about how things are prioritised and what reviews are done. I mean, obviously on. Sort of carried ways themselves and things like gullies, for example, and how you sort of put those plans together. Okay. So we go throughout the year. So the reason reason why it's really fantastic that we we finished all our plan maintenance in December was that gives us January. For be a March to start looking at the new program for the new year. We do a condition survey of every road we've done one of those. We send our engineers out to go and inspect those roads again. We actually use comments that coming from the public and from from from councillors. So that that's part of the factor that we would look into. We do do stitch in time. So, you know, it could and a road could look like it needs a bit more TLC. But actually it's fit for purpose and it's not ready to be done. It's finding that. That sweet spot where we actually do the maintenance when it needs to be done to stop it. Go in over the edge because the lot if you don't, if you don't do the repair soon enough. That's when the cost goes up. So trying to find that that place where you're doing the maintenance just in time. You're just stopping it deteriorating so badly that it becomes really costly exercise. So we've got a whole factors chart, which if you want to, a confession here. When I did my report, it was 37 pages long. So I've whittled it down to a more readable document. I'm more happy. I'm happy to come back and go through the process. We do everything. All our plan maintenance is done on a risk based approach. So we're looking at risk. We're looking at who uses it. We're looking if there's vulnerable users. We're looking at whether we've got certain groups of people that would use that highway. We're using, you know, feedback from residents. So if people are complaining, we would use and saying that there's a real issue with a footway. We definitely look at those. We do go back and look at if we've made an assessment and somebody says, well, actually, this is not good. Then we'll go and assess that. Part of the problem we have though is, as I said, what's underneath it. Lots of people see the highway as what they can see. A lot of our deterioration comes from underneath. So it's, we get roughly about 19. What we call is slow leaks. So roughly 19 pipes leak. They don't get detected quickly and they undermine the carriage way. Things happen on the highway. Our highway is open 24/7, 365 days a year. It's, you know, I've got three inspectors who do highways, I've got three inspectors who do street works. Managing that open asset that everybody has got access to and, you know, has a stakeholder that is huge and everybody uses it, which is rightly. So it is a time consuming effort. So we pull all that together in terms of how we grade things to get them on to the plan maintenance and we do have a reserve list. So even though we do our plan maintenance list. If a main goes or a development suddenly starts, then we will move our plan maintenance program around to make sure we maximize the life of what we're putting in. So we're quite careful about how our plan maintenance program. And if, you know, if suddenly a developer decides they're going to develop where we've got a plan maintenance program, we will delay that program to the developers finished, because all that will mean is that that highway will take an awful lot of pressure on it. And we don't want to put a new carriage way in simply to to see it fell within a few years when we want to make it last as long as possible. So we factor that in. So that there's an awful lot of assessment reassessment. We use our own inspection. So, you know, we inspect every road. So every road in the borough is inspected at least twice a year. Some roads which are much more major roads will be inspected 12 times a year. So it depends what category they in and how we we've assessed that. But, you know, we are assessing and reassessing. But the highway does it's a dynamic asset because it's changing all the time. And utilities are doing a lot of work to our assets, but lots of other people are doing works to our assets are trying to keep on top of that is. Quite a task and all of that is factored into our program and where we understand once we've done a program. That's a stopping time and the asset can still continues to change. It's a bit like in July where lots of boroughs had their programs completely moved around because suddenly we had this long spell of really heavy rain and suddenly. Carriage ways that weren't expected to be plan maintenance suddenly went back on the list over the list. So it is quite a task to monitor it. So our program tends to be flexible. So when we do a program, we have our roads that we're going to do and our footways we're going to do, but we always have a reserve list to move things around. So that's quite a long winded way to answer your question. Sorry. No, sorry, no, no, thank you very much. The just a couple more points on that now think about. And I noticed that paving was one of the issues where we don't seem to be the sort of condition of the arguments. Doesn't seem to be as good as we would be expected. So I should say, on that previous answer, it's quite helpful to understand the dynamics of that in order to. I think it's cancer is able to explain that to our residences to the stuff that you're looking at and clearly it's good to know that you're taking on board comments from cancer residents and others in looking at the plans for any one year but clearly I think the issue is obviously around about planning and, you know, the stuff that you have explained in terms of the way you're trying to prioritize works. But just on briefly, I'm paving. I wonder what's the sort of timetable for getting, you know, the percentage of, you know, eight months of a good standard up to, I think it's something like 80% is the target. So that's question one. I think the other question and I wonder how you respond to this is, I mean, obviously one thing which has hampered some of the lots, I think, is sort of kits not being moved on time, for example, once works have been over because clearly one of the frustrations unfortunately with although people appreciate the carriage ways, for example, being repaired, that does cause frustration whilst the, you know, the four way controls or whatever in place and then if kit isn't moved sort of shortly afterwards that does cause its own frustration so I wonder how you monitor that and how that sort of gets resolved. Okay, the footways first and then do the traffic light so the footways, we changed, we changed tack on the footways a few years ago. So changing, changing the dynamics on footways is a really, it's a bit like a trying to turn a tanker because it's quite a process and if you look to the original start we've got a lot more footways in terms of kilometers and we have carriage ways are quite complex engineering because they take a long time to do, you know, your average footway is going to take you four weeks, your average carriage way is going to take you two days because it's asphalt compared to ASP, ASP costs money. So changing that dynamics is really difficult but we're actually on it so when I first started on 6th of February 2012, obviously stuck in my head, we were doing 80% less footways than we were carriage ways. So the last forward day, the spend on both footways and carriage ways, we actually do more footways than we do carriage ways, but it is a slow process, footways take a long time to do, there's a fair bit of work because we've got a lot of paving in terms of footways. So that takes time to do, but that dynamics has changed, we've changed to do to real focus on footways, people get fed up with me talking about footways because I think that's the focus we need to be looking at at the moment. There's been that change already, so the change is happening, but because we've got such a, you know, it's a big asset to make that change is always going to take time to do and we focus quite heavily on making sure we get our footways done. So that has been the change. In terms of traffic lights, they should be monitored on a regular basis, if they're not, then you can contact me and I will chase up wherever has got their traffic lights and have not moved them when they should have done. Free rail lights tends to be not always ours, but also, but utilities, any councilor who's got an issue with traffic lights or any traffic management issues or any contractors, whether it's my contractor or utility contractor could contact me and I'll get one of my inspectors out there to go and look at as soon as you tell me. Because they need to move them as quickly as possible. That's, that's what we push and that's, that's, and there are actually, if it's a utility, there will be penalties for not doing that quickly because they have a set amount of time to be able to do work. So they all work under a permit and that permit sets out how long they've got to do that works. If they want an extension, they have to have a good reason to do that. If they don't have any good reason to do that and they incur penalty charge, which we call an overrun. And depending where that is, that can be incredibly pricey for them. We do take a lot of money from utilities who fail to actually reach the deadline that they put themselves so they come up with a duration, we can challenge it back, but we agree that duration and they're expected to work to it. If they don't work to it, and that includes leaving their traffic lights behind, then they will be charged penalty buyers. So feel free to contact me if that hasn't happened, but my team should really be picking that up because we do, we do a lot of inspections. We do 20,000 inspections a year on utility works. So it's a lot of inspections that happen. So, thank you very much indeed for the presentation. I think we've tried to come back very quickly. So just one last question paragraph 18 list the key performance indicators. The six slots in my view, not freeze seat lighting and electrical contract is the most important. Why is the performance satisfactory apparently plan works not completed in March 2024. Structural testing delivered as scheduled etc. Is there a reason why that satisfactory and the other performance are categorized as good or very good, because it is not performing to how it should be. A real challenge in terms of street lights or lamp columns so that the humble lamp column has suddenly become a house to lots of things, whether that be cameras, air quality sensors, hanging baskets, small cells, monitors, signs, you name it. That's what's goes on on lamp columns. And that gives us a challenge around how we maintain that asset because the asset was designed to be a street light, not to be a holder for other stuff. And so we have to manage that in terms of condition survey so we have a rigid condition survey of all our street lights, all our lamp columns so they are tested on a regular basis. But we need to react a lot quicker so that's why it's satisfactory. I showed you, I mentioned before, with the two hour requests, for me 0.5 is not good enough, I want zero. And they've been slow to react, if they are slow to react, then that's satisfactory, that's not good enough and that's why they're under performance measures, I expect them to deliver when they should do. And that's why they're in satisfactory. When they get to doing things on time and be ahead of the curve and they'll be good and if they do that much better, they'll be very good. Let's be fair that the lighting contract has delivered 2,400 EV charges into columns. You know, that is a remarkable number, there's been a lot of work to get that done and that kind of that keeps them closer to good rather than satisfactory, but it all has to be good in terms of lighting. You know, that's what I expect from my contractor. And I have a lot of conversations with our contractors to make sure we get this right because we're delivering the service for the public. So, yes, it's satisfactory, expect to, hopefully the next time we come, I do this presentation, it will be good, because that's what they're working to. Hey, thank you very much for joining us tonight. I think that's been gone through a comprehensive set of questions, I think, for you on highways, which I think has given us a very good overview. I think actually will be very interested to bring this back in, say six months time or however long in terms of looking at the new contract, particularly as we discussed, I think the sort of strategy for the next 10 years because there's going to be a lot of evolution, particularly with issues, well clearly issues around climate change, but also other strategies that are sort of impinging in one way or another, which are probably in the same area on on highways in general. Thank you very much for your time tonight, I won't go through all the comments that we've had, but I think it's, we've obviously gained a lot of good explanations as to how you're prioritizing your work as well as how the contracts performing at the moment. And yes, we certainly look forward to being sort of consulted in due course on the development of the new contract. So, thank you very much for joining us. Well, I couldn't have been there in person. Sorry. Thank you. Okay. And we can move on straight on to our next set of items so we've got four reports on aspects of place shaping so I don't know quite how officers want to do this I think item seven and eight might work reasonably well together, but we'll see how that we go on that but first of all can we move on to item five place shaping approach and priorities. And I think I'm handing over to Nicky Burgess first of all who's the head of business and enterprise to send the item. Good evening I'm Nicky Burgess head of business and enterprise, am I speaking too loudly. Sam will start presentation so I'm just going to talk to you. Can you get that wording a bit of issues. So I'm just going to talk to you about the council's approach to play shaping. It's across all directorates approach. And we've started when we were looking at play shaping, play shaping and the civic campus, but we've now expanded to look at the three key regeneration priority areas of the borough. Play shaping approach. I've lost my word sorry. So anyway we've got three priority areas. So King Street obviously and the opportunities the civic campus presents. A chef is Bush and its connectivity with white city innovation district and public realm strategy which Matt will be talking to you about shortly. And, and northern road and the section 106 opportunities that will be coming from else court development. And obviously everything that we do aligns with all the other local plans strategies etc. Industrial strategy. Next slide Sam. So this is the governance structure that we've now adopted as I say it started really with the civic campus and King Street. It's a little bit further forward there. And so we have project teams now, and that is across directorates no silo working share point fold folders meeting regularly. So we have project teams project team for North and Road, a project team for this King Street civic campus and a project team for worship is my city. And at the top of the tree for each of those is a sponsor so an AD or director is the sponsor. Those project team meetings, or example the civic campus and King Street, when we move on to the next slide I'll say a bit more. We had a big workshop last summer, working again, you know, with lots of offices from different directors talking about the priorities for King Street civic campus activation. And so within each of those project teams there are individual work streams so for King Street there is a work stream with a priority on community safety, one on economic activation, one on cultural programming, and one on public realm. And I haven't said them in any specific order of importance. Sorry. And then above the project teams we have a place shaping board now that meets monthly, and that is a day so mark here is, is on the board Andrew monk who is the AD for economy. Oh, that's his name, Matt, Matt, who for community safety, and a mark again for civic campus and cultural activation. And the different project teams, feed programs or priorities of work to the, to the project. Sorry, the place shaping board who agree or approve that goes up again to the strategic board which is currently made up of. Graham who's here was jumping stem but it's Graham who is there but we'll meet with Andrew monk mark race but, and then they are having regular joint meetings now accounts to the Jones and counselors holder. So they're aware of what's coming. So next slide please. I'm just going to say one more thing actually I don't want you to think there's millions and millions of meetings with loads of offices not doing anything. They are agile meetings we invite the officers that are relevant to the agenda to those meetings we are not having loads and loads of meetings where people are seeing doing work on their laptops normally. So as I said, these are the four activation work streams for King Street and civic campus. Next slide son. But also as part of this work we've been doing we recognize this kind of a lot we need to have a more ambitious plan, perhaps Smith. So we've just started some work where we're looking to commission on architects. Or a firm to come up with some more blue sky or more visionary ideas that might fall on term planning. So, I don't know whether you want to say anything Mark. Do you want to say anything. Sorry. I'm not going to say something I wasn't expecting to I'm not raised back director of public realm and yes as part of the civic campus King Street we're very much looking at how do we. How do we work towards regenerating King Street civic campus area bearing in mind the SPD which was under consideration which is on the on the agenda as well. Also the fact that there is obviously a great deal of work going to creating a very exciting new city campus and it's important that that is. God it's sits well within the rest of the public realm. And so we're about to commission some consultants to begin some work, which will look at the vision design vision for what we would look to achieve over a period of time that would sit and take. The SPD document itself as well as other contextual aspects of the town center such as you know the cultural aspects as well. And so we will expect that to come to fruition later on this year. If you look at that agree design vision, which would then give a focus for bidding for work from developers etc that would enable us to then realize that vision over a period of time and that's to be determined. Depending on what actually comes through this process. So that's an example of that work and I know on the agenda. It's the similar design visionary work taking place in the white city, for example, which, which Matt and others will talk about. That helps. Yes, thank you. So, so as well as sort of long term vision we've also in a civic campus will hopefully be opening very soon or the next couple of years we're aware very aware that we need to do some short term intervention. As well. So these are some of the emerging short term interventions. We have got some funding from UK, where we are looking at improving some of the shopfront for SARS in and around the civic campus, particularly around the gateways to improve the overall overall look of the public realm. This is more focused on improving the public realm than improving the, the, you know, giving money to businesses is it's not making it more attractive. We are looking at wayfinding. I think we want to do something more visionary, but in the short term there are the plants, the TFL plants that we may look to update. If I'm constantly going on about it if you go across to the other side of the river and wanted to find your way back to Hammersmith, you would never find your way following the signage. And obviously Ravens Court Park is going to become. We're going to have more people coming into Ravens Court Park. That's good. We've got to have a clear gateway for people to get to the civic campus. And also, you know, it's about all our other stakeholders, cultural attractions, other reasons why people want to come for why people should come to Hammersmith. And of course, the riverside, which at the moment, if you came to Hammersmith, you wouldn't realize there was a river, just a few minutes walk away. The people are lovely subways that lead in the civic campus. I think there are a longer term plans, but in the short term, we are looking to work within. He was just talking his team with TFL to do some improvements to drainage and foliage and overgrown foliage and lighting etc. And, but we're also looking to put in some CCTV. We work with local artists to have some really attractive artwork leading down and through and on the other side, which will also form part of wayfinding. And we're looking to do both both the subways. I know as a woman, that is somewhere I would never walk through on my own at night in its current format. I think it's new for people moving in, you know, we've got to be able to get to and from the river safely. Economic activation, I mentioned short months, but we're also speaking to landlords in the area looking for opportunities from Meanwhile Space, whether we could take any space opposite the civic campus in Meanwhile, to kind of activate the area, something that I don't know, I don't know whether we had a shop in King's Mile called Made in Internet, which sold all designer local artists products. In fact, it's coming back soon into King's Mile, not King's Mile. Sorry. Hamseth Broadway, which would be very exciting. But, you know, can we have some make space work space? Can we have some something that will bring people down to that end? Oh, you know, just start to animate the space before we actually over them. I'm trying and then also run economic activation, we're thinking about police branding and based marketing, visited development, all of those sorts of things, very much my background. I was a town center manager back in the 90s, very much looking as well around the businesses from Rayways Court Park, and to the border and in the civic campus, there's some really lovely restaurants and places that are quite quite hidden, really. And I think there's an opportunity for them really to increase their trade and growth. And, finally, the streetscaping. So, again, this is Mark's team and Ian's team, a whole load of officers went around the King Street and created. They, they, we called it the quality streets audit. And they notice down bus stop bus stops and telephone boxes that need to go and ballads and need painting and what needs cleaning, etc, etc. So that's all being done. That's all starting to be done as business as usual. So obviously, we need to tidy things up a bit. Next slide. Similar with Shepherd's Bush, where I won't go into huge detail, you can see the work streams there. We're not quite far as far forward as we are with Hammersmith, but we are moving in the right direction. I'm Matt's going to talk to you about the public realm plans. But one of the things is because we now do have this. Government, some kind of play shaping governance, it does put us into a stronger position to apply for funding, and there has been funding applied for. I'm not, I'm, I don't want to take up too long. So we're, there's a Shepherd's Bush comedy festivals in July, June, June, June, very something that's been worked on. We work very closely with Shepherd's Bush market. Obviously, the plans there are going to have an impact on, on Goldhawk Road and Uxbridge Road, as well as new opportunities. At the moment, we are my team, we are looking at working with the institute team to get water and power on the green so that it can have more activation farmers markets other activities on there and it will make it safer. There's even small things like a coffee cart near the playground, you know, and seating where people can use the green as well time. We work with the high streets task force last year, which is a government initiative. They came and gave us some free time, and these were the key aspects of place that they felt we needed to work on. So, please. And obviously, with what's going on with those core development, we're, we're going to be looking to, to develop a plan, a new section 106 money to make improvements in North and Road. One of the things North and Road's really lacking in this is there's no kind of dwells. There's no way there's no way for people to sit and be so a bit like Hamlet Smith, there's going to have to be some kind of vision visioning really. And there's, there, we've got a whole load of projects going on in North and Road, we are looking to purchase some kind of branded trader equipment, but also this, this will be like branded parasols and tables. So when people come to our traffic free events, they come and they can hire a ready made stool, and that means they can come with them, whatever they're selling quite often in just a suitcase. Whereas if you're wanting to sell, and you've got to, you've got to have transport and you've got to have parking all those kind of things so we're looking to be able to lend those to new traders coming in and they will be very smart and not to try and attract some new traders. And there's going to be a new cycle hub in Cooper place car park along with storage for the market. The market trader equipment we are buying. We've got North and Road summer festival in June, which falls on when rush day, as well as being part of pride month so there's going to be a good day out and looking for something to do. And is that me done. Oh, just wanted to say we, I, I don't know whether you're aware, but the hammers with this hammers with bed, which is a business improvement district, and there is full of big, which is a business improvement district. But we got some money when we came out the pandemic, and we worked with local high streets to form new sort of high street business associations which are fully constituted with their own bank account and we gave them they had to, they could apply for some money from us. And we gave them some funding. So those are all of the, the different secondary high street. But they're all doing some really, really good things. They're really, you know, nearly roads, created some new branding. Lots of green spats to launch your website. Once a bridge road, of course, I've done their amazing fare, traffic free fares and ask you road, have created a newspaper. They're planning an arts trail this year, which is really exciting and they've done a Christmas they did an initiative, for example, where people paid and they had a starter in one rest food beverage place ahead of a main somewhere else and they had a dessert somewhere else. And it was, you know, it was around 85 pounds of ticket but they sold about 80 tickets, you know, and it's a way to increase football and trade to their high street. I haven't forgotten our secondary high streets and if there is a secondary high street I know then all on there we tried very hard with full of road, we couldn't get a kind of leading business. We will go back, but if there's any high streets that you think needs some additional support. Thank you. Thanks a lot. Thank you very much indeed, Nicky, I think we'll just take a few questions if we can from answers as long as you want to start us off. Thank you very much. It's a good explanation. I think it's interesting geographically picking those three areas. And I'm looking out King Street. And I've just walked past the civic campus coming in tonight, and it's going to be a fantastic opportunity. And it's great that you're working on it. I think that I look at it, like leading up because the war that I represent is but green and Olympia is there. So I don't think we should forget that that's a significant development. It's coming on track quite soon, actually, with implications for parking and all sorts of things like that, but positive implications. And if the civic campus could join that in some way. I think that ought to be an important dynamic and the other thing I quickly mentioned while I'm thinking about you mentioned subways and about safety, and I totally agree with that. But if you look at the development that's gone on the civic campus, and you look at the other side of it, which was the front really of the old town hall always is much better looking in the back. And you'd see how close that is to the river. I walked under one of the subways there recently, and I went to the reopening of Kelmscott House, which is where William Morris is doing fantastic little venue there in May Morris and all the information about that. I think it's very keen to sort of involve themselves in developments and I think that it's worth sort of thinking slightly beyond, well, we're going up to Olympia, but also the other side down to the river, because that area is fantastic. And if we can make that sort of area that people want to come to the lyric theater, and people do want to come to shop as well of course they do and the things that are going on the civic campus I think it's a great opportunity. But saying that it's not important what we're doing in Shakespeare because I didn't have this question I think it's great, and also in Northern road but I think that it strategically. We've got the opportunity to get this right. Difficult times, isn't it, financially, cost of living crisis and building costs and everything but also for people. But we've got to think creatively about how we're going to get the residents to come and use these facilities, but also other people. And I think our last meeting we actually we're talking about that we're talking about people coming here to, you know, stay in hotels and so on. So, it's a great opportunity, but do keep talking to communities, because communities develop quite quickly in different ways, and they've got different ambitions and I think we ought to think also about accessibility. Yes, going back to your subways. Yeah, you know, it's a key priority for us as Council, but how do we actually make that accessible, but also I just finished by saying for young people. What do we do for the young people within London and all the young people families in full of within these opportunities. So, but thank you very much and good luck and best wishes for all of it. But it's going to be hard work. We're already finding it hard. I'm going to show you, but I would just like to assure you that we are very much looking at all in terms of definitely looking at joining up the river as part of our wider vision, but also about other stakeholders and assets that we have such as Olympia lyric, all of those places, all of those places working together will drive more football towards, towards Hammersmith. So we've got to think about Hammersmith as a whole, you know, civic campus will be super doing its own marketing, and, you know, a visitor, you know, attracting visitors, but we've also got to look about big picture, and we don't want to be in competition either with our assets and partners that we have. So we'll work together to bring more people to spend more money, hopefully, and more time. Thank you, Catherine Ballon. Did you want to come in? Thank you very much for that presentation. I was wondering about, I felt like I said, every single, every single time we have all these meetings, there's always a heavy focus on Hammersmith and kind of the north of the borough. And I understand that, but I also wonder, obviously, North and Road is in, is in Fulham, but I've watched Fulham Broadway, say, I've watched it kind of quite, quite visibly deteriorate in the last, probably only five years or so, there's been a noticeable change in businesses in just kind of overall atmosphere and the feeling of wanting to be there. There's so many parts of Hammersmith and Fulham that people want to be in that feel like somewhere I'd like to spend my hopefully sunny Sunday morning, or, or after work, or, you know, whatever, but I feel Fulham Broadway has, has, has kind of slipped. And I'm not sure exactly why, what's happened there, but I would have thought that that's something that you guys have noticed, and I wonder if there's any thought to what support can be offered there to try and improve that area, because I think it has kind of noticeably, it's become somewhere that, you know, do people want to visit, do people want to spend their money their time, do they want to live there, do they want to, you know, do all the living that we do in Hammersmith and Fulham and I wonder if Fulham Broadway, what's happened, kind of, what's your opinion. I think there's been quite a lot of, you know, turnover in, in businesses there. In fact, funnily enough, we answered an inquiry to Council of Coleman. It's a tough week around from a resident talking about businesses, leaving a guy. There are new businesses coming in, I think it's really sad we're going to lose Whole Foods, but Whole Foods are also leaving Richmond as well so it's not, you know, it's not just in Fulham. In terms of yes, North and Road is a focus, but Fulham Broadway will always be included in a Fulham Broadway and North and Road to Lily Road are the key town centre so we will of course be looking at there. And we're also working very closely with Fulham Bead business improvement district and if you don't know them and would like to be introduced to them, they are delivering some initiatives to try and bring investment. And certainly they're talking to all of the commercial agents and trying to, you know, encourage them to, because with those quite a lot. It's not that many empty properties, but there are some that have been empty for some time. But to me, I just can't get over how long. But properties get left because they can't come to some kind of agreement on the lease and things like that. The old tube station entrance has just been empty. Yeah, that's going to be a weather smooth. It's going to be a weather smooth and, you know, it's a weather smooth, but it will be a very nice. Yeah, it's a good to not see property empty, to be honest. I don't know whether spoons or, you know, whatever, I feel that is a good thing. And I also wondered about, it was interesting to see how many the different business associations, because obviously you guys, you can't do everything. You can't be everywhere. You know, you've got these three kind of focuses and you have to do some kind of focusing. Otherwise, you'd be, you know, you'd be buzzing all around and wouldn't, you know, you need to kind of focus and get things done. So I understand that. But I wonder if there's, if there are, you know, if there's, if there's more of a push to get, you know, because if we can get the different high streets, different areas, working independently, but also together, that kind of is doing a, doing a job for you guys. And they want to improve the place in the public realm. They want, you know, they want more people in the area. They have the, you know, the same objectives that you guys do. So it would make sense to me to try and empower more, you know, and I'm sure that is difficult to get to get. But it depends. I mean, with Revan's court, and all those businesses down there, I think, that's, that's really struggling with crime. The businesses down Revan's court and beyond to the border at the moment. So they, I think they would quite like to develop some kind of business association, but also, I think the civic campus is going to provide opportunities to increase their trade. So it's a good time, but you really do have to find some businesses that do want to get engaged with it. Otherwise, it would just end up with accounts or, you know, you want them to have some ownership of it. I mean, we do do the Secretariat and things, we do do a lot, but, you know, ASCII Road is amazing. They're a really good example. Well, ASCII Road has changed so much, like it's becoming, you know, it's a really fantastic, and there's some really like niche businesses, like Japanese bakeries that are getting, that Japanese bakeries had like a kind of a national right, not national right, but a London wide right up is being a fantastic place that we've got one of London's best Japanese bakeries sitting on ASCII Road. Well, that's, I think that's quite, you know, that's quite an interesting thing that we've got going on. But yeah, I just, and hearing, you know, about the different courses at different restaurants, that's a really interesting idea. And I never thought or heard of that. And so maybe, I don't know how much they share information between them. But if, if, if, you know, if another says you can hear how well that's gone for someone else, maybe that will. Yeah, yeah, we do have group meetings. Anyone, I think I'll probably talk too long. Okay, thank you. Sorry. Cancel tell to come in here. Yeah, just a couple of points. Do we have any ideas of what the. Investment is for these projects, the shepherd's bush and and all that. I note that the investment is of 1.9 million. For creating seating areas and placing paving paving and curves and improving market pitches for North and most. Just wondering whether it's rather extravagant or not. Also coming back to the last speaker about in welcoming more businesses. I think we need to look at the business rates. There has to be really 4 business rates, which is killing most businesses. But, for rent payment rent, you get something that a decent sort of premises. People question what you get for business rates. So I think something which needs to be looked at quite urgently. And also the enforcement of business rates, because although there's a more. Situation where the domestic rates are not enforced as quickly as business rates. Business rates are there. And if you don't pay business rates, there's all sorts of consequences. So I think that needs to be looked at as well. Yeah, I mean, I know in some areas where they've wanted to attract. So say, for example, in North and road, we wanted to attract a certain certain business selling certain products, you know, some sort of anchor type businesses that they have. Run schemes where they've reduced the business rates to try and get that investment, just something. And sorry, the other question I raised was about the investment for North and road and Shepherd's Bush project. So, Matt will talk about a public realm around Shepherd's Bush. And we've got a currently a bidding, which Matt will tell you about. In terms of North and road, it'll be around working with ECDC and they're going to be in their planning application soon. So we'll be negotiating section 106 for those improvements. So it's the 1.9 million, the 1.9 million in the report I did all one, but it has already been spent on North and road. And that was on the some of the yes, probably realm improvements, including behaving and all that sort of all sorts of things here, planting. Yeah. Thank you so much myself now. So, I mean, I think we, in the way that this being the strategy that you explained earlier on, particularly with the various groups and obviously then how that's flourished. And I think the, it's good example I think of coordination and cross working across the pencil because the whole thing here is that people don't just necessarily think in the boxes of the departments that we've got in various areas across the council, but clearly things like safety and highways in particular, are quite often come together because, you know, one, one deal, one part deals with one, one part deals with the other, but they do need to join up so I think there's a, I think there's some good examples here of obviously, you know, having these cross departmental, you know, sort of cross cutting teams is going to be essential to both, you know, to touch on all the things that you need to do. And I'm interested obviously that I mean this brings together I think some of the strategies that we've been talking about in previous meetings here which is sort of visit a strategy helping business, but also, and interested in just a little bit more on what resident involvement that's going to be in some of these strategies that I know there must be some there but I wonder if you could draw some of that out a little bit more. But I wonder in some of these projects, if you could, I mean obviously something like North End has been going for a little bit longer but whether there are in terms of the strategy for delivering it whether there are some sort of quick wins and then sort of longer term ambitions I guess I wonder if you could explain a little bit more about what we might see in King Street, for example, in the in the short term because clearly you want to bring some things in a bit more quickly and then obviously some are longer longer slower burn examples. I mean clearly from the sort of shepherd's book angle as you know, keen to see some of the fruits of that labor spread a bit further down, particularly I could be wrong, for example, where there's a business going on there, sort of cultural activity, obviously Bush all this good example of that and Bush Theatre, and bringing all of that together is clearly something quite keen to see but I wonder if you've got any comments. In particular on just just to tell us a bit more about the sort of resident involvement in all this and how they might be involved and what sort of quick wins there might be on some of these projects. In terms of resident engagement obviously projects like the civic campus and you know residents are already engaged in, you know, and have been. But in terms of now we have the we have the internal governance framework, we now have to put together the external governance framework, and how we are going to engage and work with residents. But some of it will just be on individual product projects and a lot of what we're looking at the moment is kind of business as usual it we're not doing anything really super big, apart from like civic campus was obviously. But we will be building, you know, and bringing to you that governance structure and certainly for my team's I'm business as an enterprise so, you know, very much, working with hammersmith of beads around and because they engage with all the big businesses so we're certainly engaged with the big businesses, and we had, we run something called a business network that brings lots of businesses together by monthly. So we're talking to them about what's happening. And we're doing a business engagement event for King Street businesses. Hopefully in June to bring them to find out more about the civic campus and the benefits and what's going on there. But we'll have to have a whole program around working with other stakeholders and then there's a lot of stakeholders. Some of the stakeholders are cultural businesses and in fact they're already working together around place and thinking about what hammersmith is a destination in terms of quick wins are just talk to you a little bit about a short front program we're about to procure that we're looking at doing the subway, the quality, the streets, improving and making cleaner and nicer to be enhanced. So those are things that we're working on right now we're also looking at meanwhile space in North America we're doing the branding of the, the stalls. So, and in ship especially we've got the comedy, the comedy festival coming, but also show business for a mile very much working to join up the attractions there and create like a visit to Matt to to boost. To track new visitors and also think especially thinking about the evening economy. So, there are things. Thank you very much that sounds like a long list of stuff that's great. So, no, I think we, I think you've heard the, so we'll move quickly on to the next item but I think you've heard all the comments on that thank you very much for the presentation I think we've got a good sense of what's going on. I think there's obviously good cross working across the council and we, you know, there's some interesting initiatives in particular the, I mean, well, many of them, but, you know, setting up these business associations or supporting them as obviously sort of catapulted some places forward in some cases so hopefully that will sort of be sustained I guess but let's move on to the next item which is item six which is place shaping through affordable housing development and community infrastructure. I think we've got, I don't know if Lebab Lebabs here but I know that Matt rumble strategic head of regeneration and development is going to be presenting on this. Thank you chair yes Lebab was due to be here but unfortunately couldn't make it at last minute so I've stepped back in and I was going to refresh my memory on the report presentation as well so. Unfortunately you've got me this evening so you have been in the pack a report and I've supplemented that with a presentation that sounds going to helpfully take you through. So I came to the former economy and arts and housing I think pack two years ago. So probably now is an ideal opportunity to revisit an update on our development program. And in keeping with the theme around around place shaping. I'm going to talk to you about a number of our development schemes Council led development schemes that are beyond just delivering new affordable housing and market housing in in feel sites for those which bring forward a range of different uses as part of our new development so there are a couple I want to focus on why the central Ed City and a couple of other sites across the borough to give you a bit of a flavor of what we're doing. And perhaps how we've moved on in the last couple of years and taking some of those sites from concept design to planning applications, or actually to be on site building some of those new developments that I'll talk you through so. Sam here's the next slide. So I've structured the this presentation around I put four themes here but I'm actually going to say they're three things so just a quick refresh on the background to the development program. What is our development program, how does it work, what are our core principles of it, how we shape a place throughout development program, using a number of examples of our projects that are on site at the moment or in the design process. And just focus at the end on some other housing growth initiatives that aren't just about us using our land develop new homes, but more innovative ways that we're sort of changing our approach to building our housing and community infrastructure portfolio. Hopefully, last time I probably talk for about 45 minutes. I'll try and keep it a bit short of this time, because I know you've got some other agenda items to move through. So, just a quick recap. We have 22 schemes in our development program. The majority of those schemes are actually council ed schemes and what I mean by council ed schemes is that's where it is Council on land. Our team are actually bringing forward the design working with the community will construct the homes will hand them over, and they'll be council owned homes, the affordable homes will be council owned homes, the market sale homes will be sold on a lease hold basis, and the income from those sales will help fund the overall program. So they become a self financing scheme. So we're not relying on other subsidy from council tax money to fund them. They're funded by themselves essentially so they don't put any other pressure on other council resources. So those schemes also include 1800 homes, new community schools, new community halls, play areas, and principally they are co produced with the local community, in particular when they're on housing land. They fall under the, the authority of the defend council homes policy, which dictates how we work with residents of housing estates to co produce schemes that affect their public community. So the next one is a, you probably can't see it very well I'm afraid, but I can share this this this pack with you afterwards, but this is just a quick visual representation of borough, and it shows a fairly even spread across the borough of where our development programs actually are. The red ones are the ones that we're doing ourselves directly. So we're acting as a developer, the green ones where we're doing things in partnership, and that might be partnership with the private sector, or with housing associations. So you probably can't see it, but the first one on the partnerships project is, is the civic campus, and that's a partnership between the local authority and a two dominion. The rest of them in the red are where we're leading ourselves, either directly or in partnership, but we're taking a lead in managing those projects on site. And again, probably can't see this very well either, but this, this is a table format of all of the schemes that we're building ourselves. So you can see on the top one it splits each project down by the number of homes it's delivering the quantum of affordable, the different types of affordable housing, the market homes, and then on the far right hand side of the table, you'll get the estimated completion of all those projects. So you can check back at the report that came to you for two years ago, and you can see how we've made progress from over the last two years in terms of moving those projects on. So in summary, it's 1811 homes. In total 65% of those homes are affordable. Now, if you look at planning policy basis, planning policy is 50% affordable. So our program actually over delivers on affordable housing. And we can do that because we're not a private developer so we don't need to take profit out of our schemes, any surplus is reinvested in increasing the amount of affordable housing, rather than develop a profit. 39% of all our homes are genuinely affordable. And on the next slide I'll define the difference between affordable and genuinely affordable. And as I said in principle, we aim for the highest standard of sustainable development, and we make sure we co produce our schemes with local residents so people living around those development sites, have a say in how they're designed, who they designed for, and the shape of those things. So very quickly just to describe the different 10 years of housing in our program, we have genuinely affordable, which is typically a social rent home so akin to what somebody already living in a social rent house, or flat in in our borough pay, or London affordable rent, which is the GLA's form of the lowest form of rent. So we have intermediate housing, which will either be low discounted market rental property, or a product for homeownership like shared ownership or shared equity. And then we've got market cell homes and we sell market cell homes on a leasehold basis. We sell only the amount needed on each scheme just to make that scheme viable, and they'll be sold in the same way that anybody purchasing a leasehold property on our estates would purchase them. So that's the holder of us as a local authority will remain free holder of those homes, so we'll look after the essay in general terms. Okay, and then to the next component of the presentation is talking about how we facilitate place making through our own development program. So we look at it through three pillars, I would say. So the first pillar is, it's about being co designed. We've repeating that point, but it's very important to the core aspects of our development program is that we involve residents in designing our homes. So people who live around the periphery of those development sites, if they're on estates, there'll be areas that perhaps have been previously used for parking or garages or are underused buildings. We want to make sure that when we're designing schemes, our residents take part in that design process. The second element to it is that it's inclusive. So we're delivering affordable homes to make sure our communities are inclusive and diverse. We build new community infrastructure that could be community halls, new schools, new affordable workspaces that enable everybody from different mixed communities in the borough to flourish in our in our new developments. And the third pillar is they need to be sustainable. So all of our schemes, we target the highest possible standard of sustainability. And you may have seen in the recent past that we've had three schemes that have moved through planning got planning consent and are now on site in construction we've got harder point and I point that that scheme was awarded passive house classic, which means is built to the highest possible standards of environmental performance eliminates the need for gas power in it. And it reduces on site carbon emissions by about 80 to 85%. We followed that with our development scheme at Lily Road, which is on the edge of the West can in state. I'll come on to that in a bit more detail. Again, that achieved passive house classic now deliver 42 homes and on farm lane the same. So just going through a few examples of our schemes. I wanted to focus on white city in terms of place making, we've got two significant schemes in white city that really helped shape the wider area of white city and the white city innovation district. But importantly, what they do is they draw the white city estate and the community that lives in white city closer to the innovation district to all the wonderful things that are going on around the innovation district with new STEM area is new commercial growth. New opportunity economic prosperity. The criticism has always been on the white city estate. That's all happening over there, but it doesn't seem to filter to us. These two schemes really draw those two components of land together and create those opportunities. So there are sort of four pillars to that. There's creating the physical connection between the innovation districts. And white city and Ed city does that it creates a brand new Boulevard, which is a physical gateway that opens up whites, the white city estate into the innovation district. They address local housing needs, but both skins have been designed around the housing demand in those areas. So we're not just building affordable housing, we're building the size and type of affordable housing that residents in those areas actually needs. So we look at the we've worked with residents. We've looked at the housing register and the housing needs of those estates and design the tenure and mix of housing to meet those people's needs. We've built your community infrastructure. So I'll come onto it, but Ed city includes a new primary school includes a new office with affordable workspace. It includes a new youth zone for local people, a new nursery and a new adult education center. White city central will provide a new nursery and new community hub and new public realm and play space alongside all the new housing. So then the next slide. So this is an overview of white city central. So for people who may not know white city as an area. White city central is the core area of white city. At the moment, there are some very run down old community buildings that need investment. There's a unused former health center is Randolph Barris with nursery that needs investment. And there's some very poorly laid out public realm. We've been working with the local community for the last three years to redesign and co produce that area. This slide here just shows some of the new things that we've included within that area. So you've got a brand new Randolph Barris with nursery, a brand new adventure playground, some housing that meets the local housing need and heights that match the heights of the local buildings around there. New outdoor gym and new community hub and new community gardens. We work with the community on the heights and layout of the building so you can see that the tallest buildings in that area are actually six stories. The buildings that surround and face the existing blocks of five stories so they're comparable heights with the. With the existing buildings and you can see the new community hub and the new nursery at the core of the white city central area. So the four core pillars of white city central are new affordable housing. Overall would potentially delivering 253 new homes. Modern community infrastructure so we're replacing the existing tired community buildings, the existing tired nursery and open play space with modern inclusive spaces that everybody can access. And have been co designed the building sustainable developments so we're thinking about the energy performance of the buildings themselves, but also the public realms we can manage water and we can manage heat and people can move through the spaces in a much better way. And we've embedded co production. So I'll quickly go through these Sam's this just talks about housing, I've covered this already 253 new homes responding to housing need 50% affordable. Modern community infrastructure, I've covered all of this already. Community sustainable development so that the new homes will reduce carbon emissions by 60% compared to new buildings, most new buildings. There's the biodiversity net game so it's improving by diversity by 17% on what's there already. And we're incorporating new and interesting things like green roofs and blue roofs that store water and create. Areas of habitat on the roof so we're using every little space we possibly can creating new community gardens. And then the main focus of the white city central is how we've embedded co production work with the local community. So we've had over 50 public consultation events. We've had 1200 local people take part in our exhibitions and actually challenge us on design and what they want to see. We've made numerous changes over the course of three years responding to local need and demand on the ideas that people have come up with. And we're continuing that so it's not it doesn't just stop once we finish the design process. Residents will work with us to select a contractor that work with us to manage that contractor on site to make sure that the contract is responsive to the local needs is in causing problems and will rectify any issues. Ed City sits alongside this. Ed City we see is the gateway site between the white city innovation district and the white city estate. This is just a quick map show where it is. So Ed City when I last boats you was probably just about starting is in two phases. And this year we've we've taken the first phase of development so we're starting to see our development program ripen into new assets that the council will own. So we've got a brand new primary school with Oxford. We've got a new use zone is opening later this year. In February of this year we took delivery of 24 new affordable homes and residents and currently moving in as we speak, and the new office building start is likely to open in the next couple of weeks. Phase two is already underway. And this is where the council gets most of its investment back so we get 108 new affordable homes from this. This is a mix of London affordable rent and some shared ownership for people in the local area. I knew you had an education hub will open so we'll have one in white city to complement the one we've got the math best sensor already. And that'll be designed around a program and a syllabus that's more in keeping with the local areas the much more online creative activity, whereas the one in back best center is much more about doing and physical skill sets. There's only five space new nursery is built as part of the city space. So again, this is just the overall timings. So phase one starts in October 2022. Phase two started in October 2023. Just last month phase one completed for the council in terms of the new homes and in November, all of the development will be complete. Phase one is old laundry yard so old laundry yard sits right next to shepherds bush market and the council owns some land next to shepherds bush market known as the old laundry yard. And we've been working with the developer you capital in an in on an innovative way of toning our land into new new affordable housing through through essentially a land swap. Different model whether the council doesn't put its capital at risk. What's happened is we're exchanging a small parcel of land. And in return, the developer is building new affordable housing for the council, which means it can be 100% affordable. So it doesn't we don't need to actually build market sale homes to create new affordable housing. What we're doing is we're giving a sliver of land that will enable you capital to build a brand new office commercial retail development that links nicely with our industrial strategy because it includes new affordable workspace and new lab space in partnership with Imperial College which will see space for growth sector startups coming out of Imperial working in in the old laundry yard area. So this is a slightly different way that we approach development that where we can work with developers build new housing, but not put our capital at risk. Again, even more school, even more school is a scheme that we've been working on for a number of years now. It is about redeveloping the over more school site and building a brand new modern and fit for purpose primary school and in doing so also building 91 new homes of which 50% will be affordable. Now, the way that this works is the market sale homes helped to fund the affordable housing and also the rebuild of the primary school. That scheme has now been submitted for planning and we're hoping that in June or July that scheme will go to planning committee and subjects committee approved, and we'll start later in the new year. So that's an example of where we've used our land to build new school infrastructure, but also affordable housing. Lily Road, I covered off very briefly so I'm going to huge amount of detail, but Lily road site is on the edge of the West Kensington estate. It was previously an old tier a hall and next door to it was a children's center and that children's center have been derelict since think about 2012. Unfortunately, that whole site was covered by the conditional land sale agreement that was held with capco until the end of 2019 when the council was able to terminate that conditional land. And so the agreement, we set about working with a local community to redesign this space. And what we'll get out of this is 42 new homes, which have been co produced with residents of the West Kensington estate, and we're able to build a brand new community hall. And that community hall hasn't been open since 2019. So we work with the community about what they want to see in that space. And that does two things that site forms a gateway to the new else called development when it comes through. It also opens out the estate on to Lily Road, whereas previously was a gated boundary, so it creates a new route into the West Kensington estate, making it more accessible. Finally, I just wanted to talk about a couple of other components of our development program that we're moving into now. So the first one is key side launch so historically where private developers in the borough had been building new housing, and they'd been delivering affordable housing housing associations would have stepped in and acquired the affordable housing from from developers. But over the last few years, the market for that has shrunk significantly housing associations are focusing on compliance and doing work to their existing stock building safety compliance. And it's seen an opportunity for organizations at local authorities such as Thomas Smith and Fulham to step in and start working with developers and looking at whether or not the council can acquire those affordable homes. So the first one went to Cabinet earlier this year, which is key side logic, which is down the town we broke, and we've agreed to deal with the developer to acquire the 37 affordable homes. And that's a component of our development program that we're going to look to grow over time. So there are a number of development sites across the borough will be will be talking to the developers to see whether or not there's an opportunity for the council to buy those affordable homes, and then become the landlord increasing our supply, and that changes it slightly and that the developer will build it, take the risk through building, and we'll come along towards the end and decide whether or not we want to buy those assets. So it's just another string and elbow in terms of delivering affordable housing. Just wanted to mention the refugee rehousing program last year we were successful with a bid to the GLA, where we secured £8.4 million worth of grant to help us acquire homes to resettle permanently resettled refugee families in the borough. We were able to supplement that with about a million pounds more from central government, and we've already managed to purchase five family homes to reset permanently resettled, Ukrainian or Afghan refugee families in the borough. We're aiming before July this year to have completed on about 20 homes in the borough, so that'll secure long term, secure accommodation for those families in the borough. And finally, the program doesn't stop with the 22 sites we talked about, we're already embarking on looking at our entire asset base across the council whether that's our housing land, or our corporate estate. We secured some GLA grants to look at capacity sites, about 15 to 20 sites across the borough where our next tranche of our development program can exist and perhaps we can grow our own housing pipeline by another 2000 homes over the course of the next five to seven years. So just wanted to say that that's that's coming in the background as we're building the development schemes that I've presented today. So, that's it for me. Thank you. Thank you very much. I think it was very clear and comprehensive presentation of what's been going on, particularly like the examples that you were able to pull out exactly what's going on in terms of those schemes and some of the aspects of them, particularly interesting. Thank you very much. I just endorsed what the chair said that was very comprehensive and very good. And I just think sometimes we're as an authority could do better though. You're doing fantastic work to actually tell that story to the residents, because in my dealings with casework sometimes as a counselor, but I try and explain these things but many residents. It's probably the negatives about developments rather than the positives and I think if we can articulate, particularly those figures that you're talking about. But also I just because I live, and I've been attended as a resident some of the white city consultation exercise, which I think will excellent. I wondered, if any point I know each community is different, of course it's different, but what learning, you've gained from that you've gained a lot I'm sure, and looking at co working and so on, that you can apply elsewhere in the borough I'm not asking for an answer now but I'm just thinking there are lessons to be learned from that. And again, I think if you can articulate that sort of to the rooftops to residents, you know we work with residents as accounts. I think that is a very strong message to send and the white city one is very important in that. And I think I just endorsed what you just said about housing associate where you didn't say this, but with housing associations. They got too big, they got all their own works to be doing and I think it is very innovative for a council to be working with developers to recognize this massive problem of housing in this in our country, not just in London. It's a cute, isn't it, and I think even just explaining what affordable housing is in a few sentences is important because people don't really understand what that is I don't really, I better now, but I think we've got to do better at that and then so what we're, rather than just getting a target, you know what it actually means for the communities in which we live so I think that's very important work that we're doing or you're doing, but I think we all should be able to try and explain that a bit more and then the other side to that and I mentioned this meeting is where we're working with developers where the monies that we gain from them go. And again, I know sometimes it's not quite so simple to say that I do think sometimes our residents don't understand that with our developing work with the monies that we're drawing in we're actually improving free school meals for primary school children, you know, bike lanes or whatever it may be I don't know but I think we got a better we ought to tell that story a bit better but I think it's fantastic what we're doing. I don't know how it compares rather than London boroughs in an innovative way but I, and, you know, I think it's really interesting what you just said tonight in conjunction with what we heard earlier. So thank you very much but it's just that message is messaging for me. I think it out so that people how much within full on residents know what we're doing and they should be proud of what we're doing but we should be doing more. Because I just go back to the last point housing is the key issue in this country, the key issue used to be education still is, but housing is the key domestic issue in my judgment, and we need to be doing everything we can, and to improve on that and we've got some very important principles of what is taking place, particularly up in the white city area. Thank you very much. Come back with a couple of observations to that's good. First on what we learned, I would say the one thing we've learned through engagement with residents is the more you can demystify the process, the better your engagement process will be, and the more residents will feel like they've owned a project. So what we've learned is that you've got to go beyond what you think is the traditional route to engagement, and actually got to work through how you enable those residents to actually make a genuine contribution rather than just it be a consultation exercise. We've got to find the routes to say, to look beyond well, they're not engineers so therefore they can't take part in the engineering conversation it's about how do we demystify engineering sort of point that they can actually influence what we're doing in a way. So I would say that and, and then every scheme has to be different. So why cities are very good example where the community is very involved in that project, the numbers I've just shown through the presentation, hugely involved 50 consultation meetings 1200 people have taken part in the process. We have other projects, part of Illinois is another example, because we demolished heart or point and landlord point, we effectively took, you know, 112 homes away from that space. So, and that was the community that lived there to then try and get the remaining community members to take part was hard, because they didn't feel like it was their space or they were invested in it. So there's every scheme we have to think creatively about how we engage the local community. In terms of communicating the message, what we've, I completely agree, we need to go on a journey where we're actually selling what we're doing, we're communicating it clearly, we have a program of engagement that spans just beyond each project if we talk more broadly with our TRA forums, our tenant resident association forums about what we're doing, where it's been successful, and they can hear from those residents so they feel confident that other projects further down the line are going to be delivered in the same way. We have to start small, though. We have to prove concept with a couple of schemes where residents can go, yeah, I get that. I understand why you're doing it. I believe that you're doing it in the right way, before we can grow that message and take it away. And I think we're moving to that space now, where we've had a couple of schemes that are now on site. People can see what's happening. They can see how their feedback has been incorporated into design, and they can talk with confidence about how it happens. So it's a sort of growing thing, but I completely agree with you, the more we say about it, when there's so much negativity around housing in general terms, we can talk very positively about bringing new world design homes to the boroughs are really positive. Thank you. Thank you very much. It was great. I have to say, you know, I would commend you for the level of ambition, and it is fantastic to see new, especially affordable homes in the borough, because I know for many most young people, the idea of ever getting on the property ladder is just like a pie in the sky, never going to happen so that these kind of homes give, kind of give hope is something to aim to. I suppose one thing I would say is that, you know, you discussed that the housing associations are focusing on, on maintaining the stock they already have. And obviously that's something that's going on in Hamilton as well, we have people that are that have homes, but they're kind of substandard. So whilst we're bringing on these new, you know, shiny, passive and, and ecological, all of these things, I suppose I would also say that we really need to focus on making sure you know I get regular case work of people, you know, with leaks, mold, etc, etc. That would be a point that I would, I would make, and also just thinking really far in the future, when when we look at these buildings and building council freeholds where you're going to have leasehold, which is one of the other things we get a lot of case where I'm sure all my bodies do is leaseholder bills, they get these huge bills that come out and these look like beautiful buildings, but they look, they look expensive. And so just thinking down the line, I hope that we can maybe keep that in the forefront of when we're designing buildings that these holders don't get these huge bills that they would never, you know, can't pay. But thank you very much. It is fantastic presentation. Thank you. Thank you. I understand that and we do from a very early stage look at the life cycle costs of our assets to make sure we're building things that will are built to last and don't need substantial investment in the future. Every building will need maintenance to keep it up, and they will that will attract recharges to leaseholders, but the aim is to make sure we minimize that as much as possible. So we don't do what other private developers will do so there won't be other things included in our developments that they will pay for. That's why we use, you know, you might see cinemas or luxury gyms, those things don't exist. That's a choice of our residents can make outside of their accommodation. And just on the point around investment in housing, absolutely. It's one of the things that I know our housing department are focusing on at the moment. So alongside all our new development program, there's a big piece of work at the moment ongoing where we're assessing all of our housing stock, we're doing a comprehensive stock condition survey. And that will tell us the quality of all of our homes in the borough, and that work has been ongoing for a couple of years and it's coming to a conclusion. And that will really help us set the blueprint for where we invest and how we invest in our stock in the future in a, you know, data driven way. So that that is also coming. Thank you. Thank you. These projects are supposed to be self financing, I believe. So, at the moment, the gross development value is 685 million total construction cost of 505 million. And community infrastructure provision of 55 million that's 1,190 million pounds. You say that the, these going to be self financing for income generated by market sale and share ownership for homes. I can't get my head wrong. Can you just give some sort of time scale of when that reimbursement takes place? And when do you actually call back that investment or 1,190 million pounds, how long it will take to get that money back. Those are two separate figures that the gross development value is the overall value of the new assets that they're built, and to deliver those assets. It's the cost of construction and community infrastructure. So they're not added together. The gross value is the overall value, the cost of building those is another 2 figures. But on a scheme itself, relatively simply explained. The, we will borrow to build homes. So we'll borrow and we'll use that money to design the new homes to fund construction of the new homes when they're built. Once they're built, the sale of the leasehold properties will go back in and pay off some of that debt, the majority of that debt, the sale of the share of shared ownership properties will come back and pay off some of that debt. And any residual debt gets paid off by the rent that is collected over a course of sometimes is up to 20 years of those homes. And that the rent is netted off against the cost of management and maintenance. So that's how it works. It's a long term model, a bit like a mortgage. So we've got the balance of the debt, which is serviced initially by the income from sales, and then in the long term from the income from rent. So they sell finance by each of those teams. Just thinking out loud that there is a long term project indeed 20 years, I think you said. Is there any way in which can that be that that process can be put forward in such as in the private sector. In the private sector where you have a development duty start, most of the plots have already been sold in advance. And, you know, that I should have collected the money, we may have to deliver is the project into course projected timelines. Can that do you think that could work in the public sector as well. If so, some of those homes will be sold off plan, typically they sell to overseas investors and they'll be 10% of the cost and the rest of we sell on completion the rest of the money will come in on completion. If we were to rely solely on financing our schemes through sales receipts, that would mean we would have to, we would build fewer affordable homes by using the rent to pay down the residual debt. If we can build more affordable homes, that's quite a typical model of looking at long term cash flow across your business plan. If it takes us 20 years to repay the debt on the buildings, the life cycle of those buildings could be 100 years. So for the remaining 80 years, that's an income that can service the HRA can help us invest in our existing stock or even borrow to build new stock. So it's the right model for us because we retain ownership of the rented homes, whereas a private developer will sell off the private homes and in sell off to another housing association or local authority, the affordable homes in that scheme, but we keep up. Thanks so I just come on to some comments from me. Thank you again for the reports. I thought it's very comprehensive I particularly, so a lot of the information in fact across all the reports tonight I think has been very useful and really gives a picture of what's going on I think particularly the table in Alex one which gives a very clear picture of the number of actual homes in each scheme, their tenure in terms of affordable versus market and the sort of completion dates are very interesting to look at and clearly there's a, there's a lot of stuff that's going to be completed in the next three years which is well very exciting in terms of getting those homes actually built and on stream. I should say, in terms of creating diverse and happy communities. So the I think it was titled the grand opening of the white city youth so staff knew which did have that feel to it. It was absolutely rammed. In fact, with people experiencing what that is going to bring so I'm having attended that I'm very hopeful that that will be the outcome. So yeah, I hope we certainly hope that works well. I think and maybe this is more common in the question in terms of sustainability and the passive house and everything else sort of environmental benefits of some of the building. You might be able to say some more something about that now but I think we'll be interested in over the course of time, whether we can sort of articulate what benefits are in terms of the carbon reduction and perhaps, presumably reductions in people's energy bills and the like because of the way the times are constructed and the more that we can get a sense of how that's being achieved as being achieved the more real I think it will become to all of us in terms of what does it actually mean to build to that standard and what, you know, because those are actual genuine benefits, which may be doing some of the saving to least we have lease holders that up but all people who are living in them that we want to see. So it's two comments the third comment thing is, in terms of the city, and obviously that's coming I mean that's sort of like up now because obviously that's in the same area of white city. Clearly people hopefully moving in there before too long the next year or so I mean to what extent have you built some more family accommodation there because clearly sort of three bed properties are a bit rarer than would be ideal across the borough. And but clearly there are families who are always looking to move into that sort of stuff no wonder what to what extent there's more of that in, well, across all of these things but you know taking Ed city and white city central examples. In response to your comment on sustainability. See, recently did a presentation to housing and homelessness pack focus very specifically on the environmental performance of our development and how how we deliver that through a good design, and what that actually means in terms of practice. And the benefits of local residents more than happy to come back to a future pack meeting and do a similar presentation and talk you through some of the schemes that actually show how that material is on site, but fairly simply. We, we, we measure the carbon reduction against a house building standard in 2013. And so we look at carbon reduction against part L. So what we, what we'll see typically in some of our schemed as we're reducing carbon emissions in some of our schemes while about 84% compared to the building standard in 2013. What that means in practice in some of our projects is that we'll see between a sort of 50 and 65% reduction in energy bills for those residents living there, which at a time when energy bills are, you know, they're coming down slightly now, but, you know, 18 months ago, 12 months ago, the highest in living memory, weren't they so that has a significant impact on the cost of living of people who will move into those homes because it'd be very cheap for them to run because effectively they're run by a combination of an S or seat pump, which is like a reverse air conditioning unit, and some photopotetic solar panels powering some of the community energy and some of the flat energy, and then very firmly efficient buildings. So the design of passive houses to create very firmly efficient buildings and to passively heat and call those buildings. So we don't require a huge amount of energy. Happy to come and do a more because we're probably moving on top and wise, but do a presentation on that family housing strategy. Absolutely. It's something that's emerging. And it's something we're looking to address through our development program. We tend to build based on our housing needs data on our housing needs data till still tells us the need in hammer Smith and for them is one and two bed properties. But we do also need three and four bed properties, but not as many. So we tend to try and design our schemes to match the proportions of one, two, and three, as per our housing needs data. But recognizing more recently that we need to adjust that we're starting to try and introduce more larger family homes into our new developments. The scheme of laundry yard, which was a touched on very briefly, the way we've designed that 90% of those homes are family sized homes. And that's a flathead development, but the majority are either two bed for person. So that could be parents with two children living there, or up three beds, five, three bed, six person homes that are genuinely family sized homes that we're starting to build. So we're starting to shift that balance slightly to increase family. We're also trying to do that within the private development market. So we're trying to create a family housing strategy that could be used to support planning policy. So when some of our private developers are working in the borough, we can turn around and talk to them and say, actually, we want you to build more family sized homes and fewer than one and two bed homes, especially when they're building affordable housing. Thank you very much. Now that's really interesting. I think thank you for bringing this back. I think we've sort of seen the genesis of this over the last few years and it's good to see that it's coming to fruition in the next few years. And, and clearly, very interested in the schemes today so I think we're beginning to see the fruits of, you know, the labors of you and your colleagues over many years so thank you very much for that obviously for some of the comments as well. So, without further ado, perhaps if I don't know how you want to do this because we're somewhat pushed for time at the moment, I'm afraid to say, but there has been an extremely interesting evening. But, Matt, as an assistant director of spatial planning I think you're going to present to us on Hammersmith town center and the white city public realm strategy I guess we've covered quite a lot of white city already but clearly happy to. Yeah, I will very quickly race through both presentations and then you can take some questions at the end of life. So just dealing with Hammersmith town center and the first, you, we know what the catalyst is it's around the sort of campus obviously we are looking at the wider town center itself, a lot of development interest in the high street around things like Marks and Spencer's, we have proposals in for that, not long ago that God, quite a lot of kickback from the residents local residents and Hammersmith society. So we are looking at all of those development plots within the town center, looking at bringing forward supplementary planning guidance so essentially an SPD, it can't introduce new policy, it can only supplement what's already in the local plan, and it can give guidance to developers around what can come forward in the future. So essentially it just tells us how we're going to implement our local plan policies, but we can take a bit of license and doing that. Essentially, the overarching purpose of us bringing forward the SPD itself is to do a step change and the quality of of Hammersmith town center. We're looking at long term interventions as well as short so taking into account the aspiration of the fly under the reorganization of the gyratory, the potential pedestrianization of King Street, how we connect to the river as well, drawing that into the town center, how you deal with the fundamental things that have sort of broken the town center over time, if you like, and what we're looking at the long term plans to put those in place to try and fix up the town center over a long period of time, but using the development necessary as they come forward to drive that forward. It is based upon the, there was a resident led master plan the grim shores report that was done back in 2019. We've used that exercise that the resident stood, and we've turned that into an SPD with effectively taken their master plan. We've refined it slightly because it slightly ignored ownership boundaries on properties and things like that would make it quite difficult for us to actually implement that master plan. And then we've added to it. So if we go down a little bit further, even further than that, quickly through what we have added to it by ensuring that we're taking account of our new aspirations around climate change. And what we want to do there, our realisation of the design quality that we want it to experience and hamsters and hammers with town center based upon what we're delivering as part of the civic campus and the public realm that's coming from there we want that to spill on to the high street and obviously down onto the river as well, and to Raven's Court Park station and feed its way right along. So we get a consistency of place. There's things around way fine and that we wanted to often people come out of Broadway. They don't know where to go to go. They don't understand that the rivers, you know, five minutes walk or that the hospital sharing crosses this way. They often pop out the other side and they're already heading somewhere else when they want their polo. So we know that there's issues with way fine in the town center that might help. And part of that is improving accessibility throughout the town center so that's a key driver and what we wanted to do and what would as Nicky and others talked about. It's also about place making down King Street as well looking at what's happening with lyric, but whether we can create other little pocket parks along there it's heavily dominated by vehicle has been in the past. But if we can work with the likes of I care and things to do more in front of those spaces, create a little bit of breakout space and bridge street. We're looking at those sort of longer term interventions. We're looking at a green line using the disused railway line as well. So some really long term innovative thinking for the town center to rejuvenate area as a whole. Essentially, we went out to consultation on the SPD. We went out in February, we took that through right to the end of the period. We've received quite a lot of comments back from from the residents and amenity groups and we're just taking those on board now. And we'll see what changes we need to make to the SPD to take those comments into account. And then we'll take that back through an internal member cycle, and we'll do some further engagement before it goes formally to to cabinet for adoption. And it will then become part of our material consideration and planning applications, but it also inform our long term capital programs that we're doing what we're doing around the civic campus. And those will all feel, feel through, and certainly the work that Mark's doing on on the public realm strategy for the visioning of the public realm will flow through into that as well. So that's a very quick. I can to through the Emma Smith SPD, and if I just take you to the white city. Let's bring this one up. Slightly different the white city public realm is obviously, we know what our ambition is for place, which is a world class global innovation district. And we have the beginnings of that certainly with Imperial and we've got lots of innovative businesses up there. What's lacking is probably the public realm that connects those places at the moment. We do, when we have new developments come forward like BBC television center, we have worked with them to reimagine what the design quality of places. And we've got a fantastic public realm out of that scheme. And, you know, you see it on the TV all the time. It's well used. We've done likewise when we've done the gateway site, which is one further up that backs onto Ed City. And, you know, you can walk through there from through Ed City, if you like. And there's great green spaces, little seating areas, great breakout spaces and that leads through to some nice public art that leads through to the TV center that they are very engaging spaces throughout. But what we don't have as an overarching strategy for how you provide a coherent public realm strategy for all of the innovation district. That includes not just the bits, either side of wood lane, but actually the estates as well. So it's looking at those two. So if we just scroll quickly through. We have appointed LDA designed to lead on that for us, we have partners and NHS trust with Hammersmith Hospital and with Imperial as well. We partnered with them primarily because they are long landowners, they're not developers, they're landowners. They have a long term vested interest in the public realm and share our aspirations. So they're a good partner with us. And we, our stage one report we did a hell of a lot of thinking about and gathering baseline information about how people use the spaces, what their perceptions of the public realm are. We did a huge leaflet job we did in person sessions. We did some targeted sessions with youth and with local businesses as well. And we did some online and engagement. And, and they've completed the stage one report, an essence, LDA have identified as well as some overarching principles around urban realm within their, they've identified if you scroll through 28 projects or interventions. Primarily based around the actual innovation district and white city, but it bleeds down into ship and bush, and also part of their commission was to look at the wider connectivity up to HS two station and down into Hammersmith town center to ensure we get this connectivity of link between our key kind of employment hubs as you go up and that transport network. But their focus will be on in terms of the public realm strategy is literally white city, but they identify the need to look at enhancements in the widest realm. As part of the strategy, if you scroll through one more, we got them to, of the long list of 28, we wanted to pull out six projects if you like for to so they could work them up as a concept and give us a visual representation and illustration of what the design quality was But when we go and talk to new development, you know, new proponents of schemes up there, we can tell them what that design quality aspiration is. So we've got two larger projects, two medium and two small, the two larger based around ones the west way, which is particularly not pleasant in terms of its connectivity of the sort of its severs our innovation district quite significantly between what's happening up on this, the northern campus for imperial, but also the hospital site and the NHS trust. And, and from what we will do it live for Christie as well, and severs that from the rest of the innovation district just because how it is. We need to look at ways of improving that the feel and connectivity between the two, not nothing we can do about the west way itself but what we can do it with the environment and between. So it's ship is bush we've talked about ship is bush green and I come on to a very short slides on it shortly. The other two are just more the medium size ones. One is looking at the link between Imperial College and the hospital site along to cane road. There is a lot of knowledge transfer between those two sites, and a lot of actual physical transfer as well we have lots of people moving between them. The science labs at Imperial work with the NHS trust and they work collaboratively, but the actual physical link between the two is particularly poor. So we need to look at how we will enhance that as a key priority. And then at the back of wood lane estate is a is a nice green area, and we want to do an improved linear park along along there. It sort of takes its cues from what we've done already in the gateway site which is the one that links through to Ed city, and it brings that quality of urban realm into the estate itself, and we'll start to bleed through. We've got further funding from the white city living site, which is the old Yemeni site across the way to do some further public realm enhancements within the estate itself. And that's being led by the estates team, and we will do some good stuff, but this is just a way of how we can make that link and that betterment to the whole of the white city innovation district and really start to tie those estates and as being key to that innovation district, not a separate entity in that site. And then the last two. Obviously, that's talked about white city central. So we took the opportunity to look at the wider white city estate, and what physical improvements we could make through the public realm and interventions there. I'm ensuring actually, by the time he's finished doing that central bit that we have actually then linked it through to Ed city and to the other innovation district. It's about a cohesive design palette for all of the innovation district that tells people if you're in the white city estate you're in the white city innovation district, you are part of it you understand that by the public realm, by the quality of place. So that's what what that public realm strategy does. If you scroll through I'll just take you very, very quickly. So we're getting endorsement to those projects now from the relative relevant portfolio holders, because it involves obviously. But then we hope to take those forward. In particular, we're going to advance the ship is bush one because we'll come onto that now we are putting forward a bid in May for GLA civic partnership funding for £2 million. With LDA if you scroll through Sam. Obviously we know the issues of ship is bush green, in particular severance from anywhere because of the three lanes of traffic that pretty much encase it. And that creates antisocial behavior doesn't make the most use of the greener either. And so there is a longer term ambition around the green through scroll through. This is a design concept. Essentially, we want to leave the central part of the green asset is, but we want to obviously enhance the bit where we've already got existing place based along that southern edge we want to really densify the screening of that southern edge. So that provides a more present environment within the green itself. And the long term we may look at pedestrianisation of the Northern arm there on an expirge road through, but that would be a very long term. So we've split it out into phasing. Next slide, actually, and this sort of shows the bid that we're doing with the GLA is all around phase one, and we don't see any issues with that in terms of the long term future options that we may need to keep available for the rest of the park. We actually think that the concept plan for the park is the right one in terms of what we want to do in the long term about the different places within the park itself, or the common. And then just finally, these are just some visualisations of the images of what we want to see and then spoke through and spoke through again. Yeah, this is around the pedestrianisation of that Northern arm is quite complicated. And so it will be a long term project for us. I think the ambition is the right ambition to have. It's just got quite a few issues to resolve. Not least, you know, you've got shops along there, you need to service these residential developments above, we need to ensure that they're comfortable with what we're proposing as well, and that they've still got access to the properties for services, deliveries and the like. There's 1500 cars that go through there. Every hour pretty much we'd have to redesign that and we have to model do much broader modelling to understand what the impacts of that. There's 78 buses that go through there every hour as well. Do you allow buses to go through and continue to use that or do you do get the buses around as well. You know, there's there's lots of things we need to do. But time has pressed in terms of we've got the opportunity now to bid for GLA funding. We have a concept design for the common itself that works with the short and the long term vision for place for for. But I think that's a couple of grand in a short time. Council name, did you want to say that? Sorry, I know we're coming to the end of the time, but thank you for that. That's very exciting. I mean, residents would have said a few years ago, Shepherd's Bush Green was for some of them, sometimes of the day and night, it was a no go area. So it's absolutely fantastic to see this development. I went to a wind rush celebration on the green last year. And then the theater nearby with Lenny Henry was performing that night play. And that community deserves, but better and it's very exciting what you talked about there, even though I haven't seen all the details. I think it's good echo what was said earlier about engaging with the community, the businesses, but also the residents. And from the experience of the Shepherd's Bush market, you know, engaging in that way and engaging with all members of the community as well. I think it's quite important to see how we can improve that area, but I don't like the word gentrification. I don't like that word at all, but I like the word of improvements of areas. And I think that we could definitely what you're saying, do something there. You have to move fairly quickly from what you're saying. Do you need to get this grant? To secure the grant, yes, to spend the grant, we can take a bit more time. And that's where the, you know, we will do a lot more community engagement, in particular, during and the gold world community as well. They've got ownership as well, the W12 community, and then you've got experts road residents and also the white city residents as well. So you will get a range of views, I'm sure, which should be good. Yeah, but I think it's important that we take those people with, you take those people with you in the process. Well, certainly, if we're looking at those long term plans, I think most people will buy into the enhancements that we want for the green, but the long term reorientation of traffic. That does have a massive wider impact in terms of, and we would need to do some serious consultation, well beyond the bounds of shepherd's bush screen, put it that way to ensure that everyone has a decent. Thank you. As the ball and Thank you for that. I think it's great to hear because public realm has so many knock on effects, not just visually and aesthetically, but it also has. You know, knock on effect on reducing crime and social behavior and. So I think that just overall it's such a positive thing for the borough. And just make it a nicer place to be. I think also it was great to hear that you guys are really focused on. Kind of the linking between estates and the newer areas and I think often people can feel left behind and there's new new developments happening that aren't for me that aren't my space. You know, aren't my communities and I think that public realm and spatial planning has a real as a real opportunity to link those communities up and make sure bring people along with, you know, with the schemes, which just overall make people feel more grounded in their community. So I think it all sounds really great. Yeah, I mean, we do have the challenge we're not dealing with a blank sheet if you like of redevelopment we're trying to enhance existing neighborhoods and communities and we need to bring those neighborhoods and ensure a cohesiveness to place. So it's not, you know, we've got something lovely and shiny over here but this part's a bit downtrodden, we need to lift it all together. So that's what we're seeking to do. Thank you. Council. Just quickly. Just taking the BBC isolation television center in isolation. The iconic building what what what what's the council, what's the, the council's vision for that building. And there's been any public consultation about the feedback and what the feedback was on the actual development itself. We've had. It's one several awards already in terms of the redevelopment of the BBC Center. And the feedback is, I think is broadly positive in terms of the public realm in particular. Obviously it's highly used you see it on Saturday night TV when they do their performances outside, but even just people going. I think the only real issue we have is, is whether it feels as public as it could feel. It still feels a bit private at times. And that's primarily because they, they. You can obviously when they hold significant events at the BBC television center, they want to control crowds and access and things like that. So it, it still has that slight. It's not fully public if you like. And over time that we want to break that down. And certainly when we've done the urgent scheme for the north, that feels fully public. You can walk through the whole area and that doesn't feel like there's anyone going to step out and say, no, you can't come through here or anything like that. That's not how it is. But overall, the. Design aspiration, I think, is represented by the BBC center, certainly. And I think the overall feedback is, yes, we want to see that replicated. Upward lane to the full extent. Yeah, thank you very much. There's a lot of interesting stuff in these final reports. I'm sorry that we've sort of done it towards the end of the meeting. But I think we'll be interested to see what happens with the King Street SPD stuff so interested where that finally lands in terms of taking on board the comments that you've had in the consultation period. I think also will be interested in how do you develop, obviously, several developments here. I mean, the, the sort of six examples that you gave, which presumably you're sort of, as you suggested, working up will be interested to see. Um, sort of, presumably some further, the consultation on those. But I think the example of shares of screen is particularly interesting in terms of how that is likely to develop over the course of time. I mean, what's the sort of timescale for those sort of various projects. So, like I said, the consultants have identified about 28 interventions that we're looking so physical improvements in the public realm within the white city area that we're sort of packaged up into various projects. We're not suggesting any one of those as a priority over anything else. We've selected six of them to give a visual illustration of what that ambition for places. But certainly we will start to prioritise them based on if we can get funding from external bodies will move those ones forward, or if we're working with developer partners, or councils already doing interventions in the area, which is kind of why we've identified the white city central area as well. So it's, it's a, it'll be a combination, but it'll be a very long term delivery. We've still got all of Imperials, southern campus still to come forward. These other sites and around the white city innovation district that we want to come for part of this is so we can inform our pre engagement with those entities to say, okay, well, this is our design quality. We want it reflected in your scheme. We want these through routes. We want this connectivity. We want this activity in the space. We want this kind of articulation of place so that we can have those conversations with them, but we can build it into our long term and our capital works program for our purposes as well. And certainly we'll get met to reflect it and his director of the program. That's great. No, thank you very much for the presentation of both of those. I mean, we've heard the comments I think people are very encouraged on excited about the potential for some of the changes in public realms. I mean, it sounds like they will be delivered in a sort of broader sort of longer timescale potentially but some may come on a bit more quickly than all of that so we were interested to, you know, bring them back in due course when there's a bit more to say on on someone. But no, certainly sorry thank you to everyone who's participating tonight's meeting I think we've had a great set of papers, certainly thank everyone has put them together. I think they've been hugely informative now I think the presentations have also added and bought added to that and I think there's a lot to, interestingly there's a lot to look forward to and things that are in the pipeline so I think a number of these things will want to talk about again. In due course, some of them sooner rather than later depending on how time permits so thank you everyone for participating or watching the meeting tonight. The next meeting of this, this pack will be on the 22nd of July. So we look forward to the green some more things to bring forward for them but thank you very much for all of the, all of the involvement tonight. Thank you. [BLANK_AUDIO]