Transcript

To emphasise I am solely here for the election of the Chairman of the loans planning subcommittees. Can I have some can I have the nomination, please? Can I nominate Councillor Mike? I'm sorry. I did tell him about that. Anyway, I won't explain. Do we have any other nominations? No, we need a vote. Yes, if we can have a vote on that those in favour of that proposition, please share Let's get out of this chair Thank you. Thank you. You Okay, good afternoon everybody and thank you for that votes Agenda item number two will be the appointment of vice-chair For this I would like to nominate councillor Andy Goodwin Are there any other nominations And seconded from Steve Cozier, Councillor Steve Cozier, thank you very much Okay, go to votes all those in favor Thank you very much Elected Okay So we'll get on to agenda proper Good afternoon. Welcome to this meeting of the lowlands area planning subcommittee I would like to start by introducing the planning officers to my left who will be presenting the applications and Democratic services often to my right will be clocking the meeting We are not expecting a fire alarm, but in the event of the last honey will exit via the normal doors Which you'll find behind you there and there There's been convenient in the car park I'd like to remind all attendees that the meeting is being live streamed to the council's website So, please can we ensure that all mobile phones or other electronic devices are set to silent or turned off throughout this meeting? Can I ask that when speaking committee members ensure their microphones are switched on that is by pressing the right hand button in front of you Under console red light will appear when that is activated This enables those members of the public view in the meeting or by the webcast to hear what is being said Once you have finished speaking Please turn your microphones off by doing this allows a webcast of streams successfully and speakers points to be heard clearly Members who leave the chamber even for a brief period of time When the application is being presented and debated will not be able to participate in the vote on that item The order the meeting will proceed as the agenda has been set today. There are no amendments or changes to that We'll have the apologies for absence declarations of interest and then minutes of previous meeting and then the applications following in the following order When dealing with application to committee will hear the officers presentation followed by any representations for members of the public who have registered to speak the committee will then have the opportunity to ask Clarification questions and clarification questions need to be clarification points rather than For our speeches if you can keep them to that useful The debate then carry on before reaching a decision Can I ask that unless members of the public have registered to speak please? Can all members of the public attending remain quiet at all times those members of the public who? Have registered to speak will be invited to come forward and just committee at a set time during the meeting Any persons who are not ready to speak who call out shout or are disruptive will be as asked to desist And if they continue to be disruptive, I will ask them to leave the meeting immediately politely ask those attending the meeting respect the processes and discussion within the committee as well as a committee members at all times and Once the application has been heard please remember to publicly leave the room from the doors of the very quietly and in an orderly manner That's it's out of the rules for today. Okay, so we go on to item number three apologies for absence and temporary appointments Chair, thank you. Good afternoon, everybody We have apologies from councillor Andrew Prosser and we have councillor Sandra Simpson as a substitute member today. Thank you Fantastic and I'd like to Welcome to new members to this committee councillor Steve kozia and councillor Sarah VZ. Welcome It's nice to see new faces, but it's also nice to see some regular faces from the previous fiscal year Okay Agenda item number four. Do we have any declarations of interest on the agenda items today councillor Godfrey? Thank You chair. Yeah, um, I need to declare an interest on the delegated items page 49 Item 32 mr. Stephen Middleton's known to me and also page 54 Item 64. Mr. Darren Maddox is also known to me. Thank you Okay councillor busy I am the district councillor for the second application north leeward Okay, thank you very much All right minutes of previous meeting if I hand over to Has everybody had a chance to go through the minutes of the previous meeting or should we page them? Okay, so everyone's happy to have a proposal to accept councillor Goodwin and a seconder Perfect all those in favor of accepting minutes for the previous meeting Bear with me one second one, two, three, four five six seven eight twelve Abstain yeah. Okay any of those against and abstentions? Okay, thank you very much Running through today at dinner item number six applications for developments These will be in the order as you see on there So we'll start with nine chart of all close minster level Whitney and I'll hand over to our planning officer Thank You chair and good afternoon everybody. So this application is at nine chart of ill close minster level And the proposal is for a drop curb and hard standing for off-street parking So this is the site location plan so you can see the applicants land ownership outlined in blue with the site itself Outlined in red here. So effectively relates to a proposed parking area to the front of the dwelling within a residential context and This aerial photograph here shows the constraints of the site or in this case lack of them So just demonstrating that the site is not in any areas of specially designated planning significance And you can point out from this photograph here as will be demonstrated in the photographs later on but the area of the application site itself is approximately here So this is the proposed site plan so you can see in a kind of pale red here the proposed parking space So would serve one vehicle in place of the existing grass verge also to note from this plan Are these parking areas to the north which were approved in? 2017 and obviously the residential dwelling itself which lies to the east here And these are some photographs of the site so behind this car here this is the access to the house and then it would be approximately in this location here where the Proposed parking is and you can just get an outline here to the north of that parking area consented in 2017 I referenced and This again just shows the site in context so you can see single story dwellings set in quite large plots with this open frontage and Then this photograph finally again shows that area of previously consented hard-standing for off-street parking just to the north of the site And again this photograph shows a similar thing so I'll pause there chair for the public speaker Thank you Okay, thank you very much for that we have got the applicant Steve James if I would like to actually approach the table second seat in from my right You'll have three minutes to speak I will give you a reminder when you've got one minute to go if you press the right hand button Tonight, okay. Thank you. Thank you for having me here today Obviously I've just had to talk about our hand hard-standing for the single vehicle parking We were told to kind of bring evidence Really? I was just going through the basis of why we were doing it to be fair So the reasons we kind of wanted to go for a single hard-standing Is obviously as since we've moved in a lot more cars have appeared within the cold sack itself When we first moved in we sort of spoke to neighbors and we said about you know We'll be thinking about doing it and everyone's really happy about it because obviously next door has their two vehicle hard-standing With there being more vehicles attending kind of the cold sack itself It's become increasingly difficult for my partner who works shifts with Thames Valley Police Who comes home late to park within the cold sack and it's having to go away from the street from home Her mother also helps us with childcare for our toddler and has to then park away And since we moved in found out she had a stroke and it's now disabled So it makes it increasingly difficult for her to get to us as well Upon my toddler we have concerns because where we have to park there's an island at the beginning of the cold attack They're people that use the local shop use that as a turning point to get back out onto the main road in the right direction And they do it quite quickly. So we have concerns of having to park there and walk across with our young toddler as well The other point was upon us purchasing the property it came from one of the Neighbours and they put in the parking was always on a first come first serve basis and it was really like polite Since we've been there. We had our car vandalized with profanities people double parked next to us blocking part of the cul-de-sac or Also mounted the curb onto the grass verges of that is if we still own their quote undesignated spaces When it comes to the off-street parking as was previously said our next-door neighbour has the twin spaces There's two other properties that have off-street parking as well Both of a concrete kind of construction one with drop curve one with banked So out of the 11 properties three already have it as well Apart from that people as I said previously are already bumping the curbs to kind of pop on the ground What we proposed was obviously just a space big enough to put a single vehicle on my partner to park on with our toddler to be able to unload sort of shopping bits like that it shouldn't affect any Accessibility for our neighbors because they've already got where they're kind of parking Thank you very much if you can just hold that any points of clarification castle Everton Thank You Chet. Thank you for the presentation. Appreciate that a couple of questions I'm alright in thinking that you already have two parking spaces in front of your house directly in front of the house No, the two parking spaces are in front of our neighbors if it's the off-street on the on street There's enough place to put two cars number 15 and 19 tend to put their their number 19 I believe it was in one of the pictures has Part of the off-street parking as well if he was able to flick through the pictures that they had There's off-street parking you can see go back one maybe Just to the right on that top left-hand picture. You can see a Concrete is kind of like a grass mapping almost that's used as off-street parking as well Okay So the picture that shows one side gravel on one side tarmac up against the house He's your next-door neighbors. The tarmac is our next-door neighbors number seven. Yeah. Okay. Thank you And can I just ask very quickly how many bedrooms do you have in the house? Oh, we have two bedrooms. Thank you Council Simpson Are you aware that that any parking spaces it's part of the public highway It does not belong to you that anyone and you can use your neighbors. Okay? We are aware. We've seen it within the application that's been put through with number seven I actually have noticed this saying it's only for their use but since then we've learned that it's not However, if one honors the fact that they put the parking spaces in and paid for it and no one else parks on But we would be we would have no issues with it Originally, we put in for two spaces because then we could have a neighbor park next to us, but they didn't want it Okay, any further points of clarification, okay. Thank you very much Thank you chair They're just a quick point on the procedural point before we start whilst the officers report correctly notes and no objection comments were received Since the application was validated as a full application I just point out to members that a single objection comment was received upon initial Consultation from the occupier of 11 Charterville close on the grounds of impeding access to the property Reducing ability to park outside number 11 and loss of outlook to the south number 11 being the the dwelling to the south there So turning to the merits of the application Given the proposed off-street parking would be associated with the residential use of 9 Charterville close The principle of development is considered acceptable subject to assessment of highway safety design and residential immunity impacts OCC highways have been consulted on the application and have stated that the proposed parking space is not on the pub Or is on the public highway and as a result cannot be reserved for the sole use of the applicant as we've just heard Therefore it would be available for any highway users to use They have also stated that the proposal does not comply with OCC drop curb guidance But does not we but cannot demonstrate sufficient harm Would result from the scheme in terms of highway safety to warrant refused refusal of the application officers do know Sorry, excuse me in order to carry out works to drop the curb An application would be required to Oxbridge County highways So it's subject to separate consultation and as a result of the OCC highways have raised no objection to the application In terms of design the proposed hard-standing would be visible in the street scene as you've seen however officers consider that the proposed works would not give rise to an Adverse impact on the visual immunity of the area as the open and soft frontage of the site would be preserved Therefore the proposal would not give rise to any adverse impacts in terms of visual immunity No impact upon the immunity of neighbors is identified given the nature of the proposed use which would not give rise to any privacy or noise Impacts in terms of loss of outlook officers do not consider the proposed hard-standing would give rise to any significant impacts in that respect And therefore the application is recommended to approval subject to the conditions as set out in section 6 of the officers report. Thank you, sir Okay, obviously it's open up to members I've got Councillor Simpson first and then Councillor after after Simpson There's no mention of by velocity biodiversity. I know it's only grass but grass it won't just be grass it could be a number of different species and insects and so on living there and the previous ones were approved before anybody cared about climate as far as I can see so I Don't think it's another year and they'll all be like that. So what was an area with grass in will be just an area of concrete Casa Levitan Yeah, thank you. I've just a quick one you reference that there would be no problem for the lady in the corner Getting past there. Is that actually right? Because the drawing here clearly shows that there isn't enough room And I just wondered about and the other thing I do have Concern about is in our local plan. We are following the Oxford City Guidelines on car parking spaces and a two-bedroomed Facility would not have to car parking spaces who would have one point something That's why I asked the question You Through you chair so addressing the ecology point first I think given the scale of the application being such a small site it was considered in this instance that it wouldn't be necessary to to request any further information in terms of Biodiversity for example, obviously this application was put forward before biodiversity net gain came in but in any case I believe given its scale it would be Exempt from that just to its due to its size and also many in many cases works like this would be considered and permitted development It's only because the site falls outside of the residential curtilage That this wouldn't have been permitted development. So I think in terms of the ecology point it just from our perspective comes down to the scale and the fact that no Kind of highly sensitive habitats would be lost and it would just be a small area of grassland so in terms of the loss of access point, which was referenced by the neighbor, I think our point to that would be that the existing grassed area has a Path that immediately adjacent to it which is there to provide access and the verge itself isn't necessarily there It's a prime primarily as the kind of route of access to her property So we think it would be retained in that respect and then in terms of the number of spaces I'd probably come back to the point that the car parking space wouldn't be solely for the use of the applicant so we can control that And also the fact that OTC highways haven't objected on those grounds as well So in the absence of a technical objection on that point I think it might be quite challenging to use that in itself as a reason for refusal Councilor right Thank you. Yeah, just to quiz the Officer a little bit further on the the lack of adverse impact and the small scale of this development It seems that this is could be well an accumulative set of developments and a progressive absence or reduction in green space, so I would like just to get your reflections on the implications for granting this and further Developments of a similar nature in this area. Thank you Through you chair so I think As a reference are the key points in in terms of impact on the character and appearance of the area that is that kind of? Soft open frontage. I think one thing I would reference is that 2017 consent which has been approved previously So to some extent in it with that consent having been approved and there is some direct principle or precedent for that type of development That already exists and is lawful So I'd probably come back to that and also the fact that it will be surfaced in green I know it's obviously an imitation but to some extent retains that kind of sense of openness specifically I Will return back to you campus and say I'll go let others speak first before you do a return to catch a good win I think on balance. I'm minded to agree with the cat with the officers recommendations to approve given this currently room for a car to be on street and it's moving on off street and I think the limited impact on the biodiversity I'm minded to propose Council made lots of second Yeah I'm happy to second and I also agree that it appeared from that picture that the car was actually parked half on the road and half On the grass so surely a car churning up the grass and putting mud everywhere actually is having the same detrimental effect of the biodiversity as Making it a hard standing. So I think with that in mind I I tend to agree with councilor Goodwin and I'm happy to second Okay, council, okay. Yeah. Thank you. I have some sympathy with the applicant. It's not an ideal situation We have a 1960s development and a 21st century car problem and because the escalation of cars more cars means that Parking spaces are a premium I have to actually say that the applicant if you look at the five point one over on page 18 the applicant is trying their best to mitigate some of the the green problem by putting up a Grass mat hard stand in my opinion. It's better than the tarmac and the other existing hard standards there If you look at a paragraph my glasses on section 12 What this applicant does actually is soften the landscape scheme I'm not putting just another piece of tarmac Dan so I can sympathize and I actually do Support the application because it as the officer said it matches and mirrors 2017 Application and unfortunately, we have to deal with every application on its own merits We can't look into the future and see what other people are going to do in the close if they have if they want to do This they have to come with application and this committee has to decide it on its merits alone But I'm happy to support the applicant and the application Okay. Thank you There's a different attitude towards biodiversity now than there was in 2017 and I think that Renewing now allowing them now just opens the door to all the rest of the close doing the same and it's very worrying here Well, it's only a little bit of biodiversity and then just gets eaten away until it's a great big bit Okay, thank you very much we have a proposal and seconded to approve recommendations of officer Go to vote all those in favor of approval All of those against and any abstentions, okay, that carries I Also be set we're now going to go on to the second application that's at North Lee Football Club ancient Park North Lee And again, I'll hand over to the planning officer for the presentation Thank you chair Yes So this second application is at North Lee Football Club ancient Park North Lee and the proposal is for variation of condition one Of planning permission reference, I'll let you read that To extend the use of temporary car park an existing football pitch for a further 12 months until the 31st of March 2025 So this is the site location plan so you can see the car park itself Edged in red here. So in the northern part of the wider Football Club site Obviously adjacent to this you've got the Estelle Manor formerly Ensham Hall sites to which this application relates as well as North Lee to the north there So these are the site constraints so again, you can see the application is not in any areas of specific designation Although does sit in somewhat close proximity to a listed building But we think in this case given the nature of the proposal and there would be no impact there So this shows the proposed site plan again, so it shows in slightly more detail and then just to point out from this that it's the same plan as was considered by the previous application and this application is just to Extend its temporary use for a further year And just some quick photographs of the site so this one's taking on a very rainy day but there are some slightly better ones on the on the following photograph so you can see in terms of the the kind of temporary nature of the Matting that's been laid To provide the car parking and and there's also a restoration plan as well within the application The same one as was approved previously in terms of how to go about Restoring the pitch once the temporary use expires so I'll pause their chair for the for the speaker. Thank you Okay, thank you very much we do have two speakers for this we've got Ray Plowman if you'd like to come to the floor Against the second seat in To speak you need to press the right-hand button you'll have three minutes and I'll give you a one-minute minder time. I'll start when you start Good afternoon, mr. Chairman and members of the committee my objection to this application is the fact that I feel there's false and misleading information within the application. We've just seen a plan put up on the screen showing the layout and in fact the situation is that following the passing of the application in 2023 the actual layout was changed and in fact on the Picture that was shown you will see there was five Entry oblique exit points to that and in fact that has since been reduced to one very quickly after you pass the last application and I fully agree with the Officers point that the layout placed before you is the same However, the reality is that it isn't now on Easter Saturday. There were 220 estal cars parked on the site and So my my feeling is that I would prefer this application to actually correctly describe the number of vehicles on the site and Rather than run with the old plan. We desperately need the car park, but we need it to be described correctly Now the other thing was on the original application which you passed it not only were 220 parking spaces, but there was at that time 250 members of staff at Estelle Manor and Currently there's been a hundred and twelve point eight percent increase in the numbers of staff and it is now 532 which Compliment them on their success. It's wonderful. But let's have the truth within the application The other thing is we've got a long outstanding travel plan, which should have been in place Long before even this original application for the temporary parking. It's still not being done We've got other issues in the village with regard to the travel plan not being done with minibuses etc. One more minute and I just I just feel that we need a professional approach to this whereby you're given an Application which actually is correct. I mean if the stating also on there that minibuses Cease running at 730 in the evening. Well with respect. Mr. Chairman, they don't they're running all evening and Not that that is particularly an issue to me, but we need an application which is truthful and correct and it isn't Even the plan you've looked at is it's not correct And that is my that is my we need we need the parking but You you as a committee I suggest do not need false and misleading information You need a proper plan put in front of you, which is truthful and thank you very much for allowing me to talk this afternoon Okay, thank you very much if you just break there any points of clarification council close yeah, yeah you mentioned about the Previous layout changing what how did the previous layout? How did they not adhere to the previous layout? You Well, basically the what happened very quickly was that after after it being passed four of the five entry points were closed off and The layout was then changed and the cars actually Aren't even parked in the same manner that they were shown on the original plan, which obviously gives them extra spaces anyway And on the second picture that you had on your screen you actually had cars parked Archie shown on that photograph alongside of the old cricket pavilion, which is not even part of the area that was shown on the original picture, so he Even the picture that was shown Confirms that there's extra space outside of that area being used Okay, if ever points a clarification cast a good one So I understand the concern that what is drawn isn't actually representing what is actually happening Do you have yeah, do you have concerns? If it was redrawn and demonstrated what is actually happening on the ground do you have concerns then if it no I'd like to make it clear The village and myself we're desperate for the car park. We want it to be there, but I believe in the truth Which and we need the plan properly drawn out and also the acceptance if that plan is properly drawn up It actually shows 150 spaces. We need the acceptance on occasions that they actually don't even park on there But they park outside of it as they did on Easter Saturday Now I would if you don't mind me just saying there was an excuse used by the agent that on Easter Saturday That my number of 220 was confused by football traffic I went to the football football gate and was 96 people on Easter Saturday 220 Estelle cars were on that site before any supporters cars went in there and the fact was if you think 96 Supporters quite a few people walk because it was Easter Saturday, and they want to enjoy a drink and not drink and drive Also, the away team came from Biggleswade. They they were looking at possible promotion they brought 30 or 40 supporters who came four or five in a car, so It comes back to the point of the original application 120 spaces 250 staff new application 220 spaces five hundred and thirty staff it doesn't it doesn't collect and quite frankly You know where's the travel plan? It's long overdue. It's been kicked in the long grass I'm sorry, but you know it needs to be done properly that's Counselor right Thank you. You've made a good point about the the need for parking I'm just a bit concerned that this is a temporary parking Application and I imagine that when you're referring to a long-term Parking plan or travel plan you're looking at the longer term Which would have to be a separate consideration? Can you clarify well the square the circle basically yeah? How long does a temporary plan last? That's point one secondly temporary or final surely If the truth is told now It aids when the final plan is put forward But the point is if we don't tell the truth about the numbers now How can we rely rely on the truth being told when the final plan comes forward because to me? It's not a question of people saying What they feel they can get away with let's have the truth and have it done properly, and I'm afraid it's not happening I Get those no for a bunch of clarification. Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you very much for allowing me to speak this afternoon We do have a second speaker for this and that is Keith Chisholm if you would like to come to the front table, sir And again, it's the second seat in right hand button turn the speaker on white had to take off as well You'll have three minutes, and I'll give you a minute my job towards the end. Thank you time. I start when you speak Good afternoon chairman members my name is Keith Chisholm the director of c2j planners, and I appear on behalf the applicants The further extension the use of the temporary car park would assist in addressing the short-term parking issues at the hotel site as fit out construction works approach completion in early 2025 and Would avail the applicants to progress the development long-term travel plan to replace the existing Interim travel plan that was submitted with the original application this will identify sustainable movement options for staff and visitors to from the site as your professional officers report recognizes under section 73 of the Town Country Planning Act Regulations, it's only a question of the conditions attached to the approved consent Which may be considered as the principle of the original scheme cannot be reconsidered under this application Your officers report also confirms neither sport England or Oxfordshire County Council Highways Department have raised objection to the purpose Proposed extension of time on highway safety grounds or the impact on the football pitches the proposal still accord with local plan policies OS 2 & 4 and would give would not give rise to any adverse impacts on neighboring residential properties Regarding the representation submitted the LPN respect this application those directly relevant to this proposal have been fully addressed in your offices report Whilst your officers report recognizes many other representations do not relate to the application But the operation of the wider hotel complex and are not material considerations to the termination of this application All submitted representations have been reviewed by the applicant an extended commentary on the representations submitted to your offices to clarify the operations of the hotel complex and assisting consideration of the application as The commentary confirms the hotel complex is now a major local employer making a very significant Contribution to the economy of the West Oxford one more minute with 42.5 percent of staff residing in Whitney and 73.6 residing within a 20 mile radius and 95.6 within a 40 mile radius in conclusion. I respectfully request members support their professionals officers Recommendation to vary condition one of planning permission 23 o 1 7 7 8 stroke full subject to the recommended conditions Okay, thank you any points of clarification That's amazing. Hi, so I'm Sarah VZ. I'm the district councilor for the ward When we when this application was originally approved we had a temporary travel plan in place and it envisaged that six months after the opening of the hotel, which was in May you'd have a permanent Travel plan in place that should have been basically put in place in November 2023 And in my discussions with Estelle Manor Last week, I understand that it may be nine months to a year before you get to that conclusion Are you able to tell us any more about how we have a problem in North Lee at the moment? Because and I I'm not actually posing the car park I think if we we have a problem with traffic due to the cell Situation at the moment in the village and I think if we didn't have a car park it would get a lot worse So I think as a temporary solution, we do need to have this car park But can you give us any more detail because the the staff there said that you you CTA CTJ were dealing with it Can you give us any information about what your long-term plan is to take the traffic out of the village? and also When that might happen and what you might do instead? Well, the purpose of a travel plan is to identify ways of achieving sustainable movement to and from Now there are various aspects to that the initial interim plan, which was prepared by a transport consultant identified reductions in the likely Car usage to the site over a progressive three years now the operation of the hotel has only really reached Reasonable capacity earlier this year round about March May so in the since that time they're starting to amalgamate information on their staffing levels and the pattern of movement of the staff and Visitors now as I identified a moment ago We already have an indication of the location of our staff at the current time And that will no doubt vary But what it gives a clear indication is is that they as was hoped They are achieving local employment with nearly 42% of the current employees being located located in Whitney Now that in itself is a potential advantage because we have the transport Network running directly in front of us the the bus which is supported by the company substantial amount each year provides direct access now at the present time What happens is is that members of staff come off the bus within all worth of at least And the company recognized have been issues on occasions with noise and related, but they are attempting to address that The minibus service currently picks up people And I know from my own personal experience of rooting through the village following in the bus and people dropping on and off That there is very limited parking by staff in the village And that the minibus will wait outside the edge of the village following the pattern of the buses but as this transport Plan is developed then all this information can feed through so then they can reintroduce certain other methods for example car sharing is something that's not currently a Mandatory requirement for staff they're looking at that as an option likewise at the present time there is evidence that the company have substantially moved towards a sustainable approach they currently are offering have 200 staff utilizing a free bus service So they get free trips to and from work. So there's a direct encouragement to use public transport that level if you were issue it to 530 which I think it's very important to express here. There may well be 530 employees, but the hospitality sector by its very nature is a shift based Sector so at no time. Will there ever be? 530 employees on site With that they're now establishing the patterns of shifts For example, the spa will have different patterns to the hotel and that will enable them to derive a system whereby They can reduce the amount of people moving to and from and then they can encourage them to use the alternative methods If we're realistic walking and cycling is not a strong factor here Public transport is a strong factor. The minibus service is a strong factor in the longer term The company are currently exploring other alternatives to provide some form of hub off-site so that many for that people who come by traffic by car Which they're currently doing will actually go to a hub position And then they will be brought in by minibus, which will hopefully indicate some of the issues that are occurring in in North Lee But at the moment they are progressing. It's not an easy task Because the pattern is only just establishing so there's no attempt to avoid Updating this travel plan. It's simply taking time And from my last conversation with the company executives. They are appointing a specialist to develop this Based on surveys of their staff and they're also starting to get information about how their visitors are arriving So it is an emerging plan And I've been mindful that it will take time to get that right, but there is no attempt whatsoever to avoid producing this document In terms of the Sustainability that I think you put in your interim travel plan something like 98% of travel would be Electric vehicles etc. It's currently at about 2% I mean, that's quite a big difference and at the moment you've got 532 employees and 200 I know that I understand your argument about shift patterns But you've still only got 200 of the 500 going on public transport I mean, that's still 300 and I know they're in shifts that are basically hot bedding in a in a car park for 120 is that right? No, that isn't the case. There is parking on the site and all the Authorized parking on the site has been constructed But at the present time not all of it is available because the ongoing construction works and fit out Within the site on the western side of the site. There's still considerable construction work going on on buildings 15 16 and 18 Plus there's fit out taking place in many of the other buildings plus finalization of the works elsewhere on the site So some of the parking spaces are not available They will become available as a construction works and at no point are we going to reduce the carpet on site? We're gonna maximize that car parking but the whole purpose of the travel plan is to try and utilize that parking You know in a more comprehensive manner and reduce the number of movements and as I said, there are numerous methods that are available including Incentivizing staff to share cars where they do come by car And given that you know, this is a rural area. There will be a significant portion of people coming by car But as I mentioned earlier, we are looking at other alternatives to try and find somewhere we can in effect Transpose people before coming to the site. So you get rid of a lot of the car movement Initially when this application the original application for the hotel came forward the ancient park and ride was considered as an option to Perhaps purchase spaces in there or make some agreement whereby stuff could go there and be transported for but I should be aware That's still not come to fruition I'm checking myself just ten days ago. There's little or no sign of that access being completed Probably within the next two years. So the company are actively looking at other alternatives in the interim Okay, thank you any other points of clarification and these be clarification Are they clarification for you is the plan in the long term that all of the staff traffic would be Put onto the on-site parking then and you wouldn't actually need That's not clap occasion. It needs to be a clap case of what he said, okay Okay, any other point of clarification? Okay, thank you very much Okay, well Karen the presentation go back to the office it's up to you Thank You chair So on to the merits of the application then so in the case of section 73 applications the principle of development cannot be reconsidered Therefore the justification for the proposed extended time limit highways and enablingness matters are the key considerations in this case The underlying consent was subject to condition requiring the use of the permitted car park to cease by the 30th of April 2024 and then be reinstated within three months as a football pitch No physical changes to the design in this case are proposed but an additional 12 months are sought to allow continued staff parking During ongoing construction at the wider Estelle Manor sites due to delays as we've heard The car park is solely to be used by hotel staff and officers have deemed it appropriate to add an additional Condition to secure that the temporary car park is only used for hotel staff members Officers note in the previous in the clue in the previous permission. The car park is only to be used Or was subject to the land being reinstated which officers proposed should be secured as part of the current application Therefore your officers consider that the proposed time extension in this case has been fully justified moving on to neighbor enos officers are of the opinion that the Proposal would not give rise to any adverse impacts with regard to neighborly amenity The car park is to be sufficient distance away from neighboring properties in which the effects of Cummings and goings would not have a detrimental impact upon those properties This accords to the assessment of the underlying application Officers also note the positive effect of consolidating on-site parking away from residential properties Which would negate the possible need for workers to find ad hoc on-street parking Officers also note there have been third-party objection comments noting the use of unsafe access However, OCC County Highways have been consulted and considered that the scheme is acceptable as was found in the assessment of the underlying application When it was considered that the intensified use would not result in any harm to highway safety And again has been mentioned officers point out that no objection from Sport England has been raised in this proposal The application is therefore considered acceptable and is recommended for approval Subject to the conditions as set out in section 6 of the officers report. Thank you Okay, thank you very much. I have three Requests and speak first so cancer cozy at first and then it becomes essential that famous to share on page 23 five point eleven Obviously the very bottom and sentence there you took about the secure in a condition. How are you going to enforce this condition? Through your chest, sorry, which condition are you referring to go to the page 28? Sorry 23 bigger fun. It says on the bottom there appropriate to add an additional condition to secure the temporary car park is only used by Hotel staff members. My question here is how we as an authority because we are the enforcement in this matter How are we going to enforce it if we find out that it's not just hotel staff that are using this particular car park through your chair well in the case of The car park being used by those who weren't members of hotel staff. Obviously, we'd have the the The power to take important action at that point if we deemed it necessary Okay, Councillor Simpson Just continuing. How would you know that? It's not? staff for start The other thing is the reinstatement of the football pitches from what I understand. You can't reinstate a pitch in three months Especially if they've done deep cultivation But will there be a time limit put on reinstatement? Through your chair on the reinstatement point so the the application the underlying application had a plan submitted in terms of the process by which they would go through to reinstate the pitch and that was approved as part of the underlying application so the effect of this application would just be to all that the effect of the newly imposed condition would be to Secure that which has already been previously considered acceptable Through you there's a report that went with the original application in paragraph 5.9 of The officer report here. It's a white horse contractors report. It's the It's all set out in that report and that was agreed on the previous application. I Don't know what the date was in the report, but we've agreed that report And that was agreed by sport England as well. Okay. Thank you Thank You chair just a quick one on page 24 5.18 it says that The new time limit will be the 31st of March 2025 and you're all during the meeting. We've been stating that it's going to be a year So can I have clarification as to that and can I also ask as a focus tool? for us Towards the developers that we actually state Categorically this will not be extended again For you chair, so in terms of in terms of the clarification on the date that date simply relates to it being 12 months from the date that the Previous temporary consent expired so that would have been 12 months before that so effectively it is as far as understanding in breach at the current point in terms of the second point with regard to Disallowing any future applications. I think we could probably put an informative on any consent to kind of outline That you know, this temporary consent has been extended once and you know possibly it may not be viewed favored But obviously we can't disallow the applicant from submitting another application. And if they did we'd have to consider it at that time So my answer to my first question, are we doing it from a year today or from when it actually ran out and they've been working with our So it would be to the 31st of March 2025. So not a year from today a year from when it Castle Goodwin Thank you Just a question to you chair if the original planning permission was it for a limited number of spaces and if Going back in time it's difficult if the number of spaces was increased in the original plan would have been any subsequent consequence in approving it so If there were a hundred, you know, does that make sense? If it'd been a larger, but what's the number in the original plan if it had been larger would have been any issue approving it originally Through you chair. So procedurally there may well have been because it may have changed the site area. So if In that in that case it may well have been that it could have been Considered as a section 73 application in procedurally in terms of the actual merits fit Obviously, we haven't considered that specifically because that's not being proposed So I can't give a solid answer in terms of whether that would have been acceptable or not Just because I know you know a certain standard with regard to car parking space sizes and that type of thing so I can't give a completely direct answer on that but I Mean, I don't know most of us have had building work. I don't know if anyone's noticed builders ever being late I've had experience with builders being late And therefore they're trying to extend their car park because their builders are laid so I still I feel the officers got this right and They need to extend I don't see there was any evidence that they're using it for non Hotel staff. I don't recall anyone saying that I don't I may have missed it For me, I would like to impose the officers recommendations Okay. Thank you very much I will go for a second. Definitely was it seconding captain made Would you like to speak now? Yeah, I'll speak now. I'll jump in there. So I'm gonna do exactly the same as councillor, Goodwin The alternative if we don't approve this would be that all these 200 300 500 staff would end up parking in the village and having to try and cross what we all know is a very busy road so I don't think that we have any other choice than to approve the application and only hope that Estelle manna Managed to get the the car park that they're trying to do Finished within the next year, but like councillor Godwin said we know we know the timescales of building projects But I think that in this case, it's not ideal, but I think that we should approve approve the extension of the car park. I Think most of us have been stoned by extended building worse at some point to council of easy Yes, I absolutely agree that we should we should be extending this car park I just have one clarification which is I thought the original 12 months was for 120 cars It seems the revised one is for 140 cars. Is that right? Through you chair, my understanding is that the actual plans we're considering haven't changed Haven't changed at all. It's just simply the time frame. That's my understanding and also I actually visited the site this week and As the resident has said this this actually isn't The layout currently is not what's being shown here. When is the council last done an inspection of the site? Through you chair, so I'm presenting this on the behalf of a previous previous colleagues I haven't been to the site myself, but I understand that she visited the site in March So that was the latest that anyone went there, but I haven't got direct knowledge of having been there I think it might be worth you know as a Quite urgent point to go and visit the site and see if the configuration is anything like that because I know that it isn't it might Be worth actually proving what actually exists there. I'm not saying it's outside of the planning, but it's not laid out like that. It's not It's not in that says I don't know therefore whether it's the right number But it's not anything like what's being shown for approval here So I think probably it's worth having a site visit and actually clarifying that however, that doesn't mean I don't think we should approve it Gonna say have you been trained by cancer singin Disclosed that I have met Are you proposing a site visit by the committee therefore Necessary, but I do think that to get an accurate map of what is being used as the car park might be helpful for reference as A benchmark going forward if we're looking at this again in the future I do I don't think the whole council needs to get and see it But I do think there needs to be an accurate record made by the council of what what was how the site is configured Just for reference and also so we can make sure they're in compliance with what they're saying They do if we know which sites counters Which which plots are the car parking sites, then we know if they're using those or using other ones I think that would be helpful for everybody okay, I'm Trying to elaborate though. Therefore. Are you putting a condition on that be the department does a site visit at some point? We've been the next six months Probably three months just adopted. I mean, we're it's only twelve months approval. Probably three. I'm just just a map Just a map what the actual application what the actual? Three yeah, thanks. Um, I'm happy for us to do that in the next couple of weeks before we issue the permission if that would Give members comfort so we can check what's on site Counselor Godfrey Thank You chair Clearly this this applications needed for the car park space however West officer today commissioned a report a playing pitch strategy report in February 2022 In the report outlined a shortfall of over 17 pitches for the region Am I right in thinking this is actually a car pack on top of a pitch and if so, how's that pitch been? Moved or has it been reallocated somewhere else? Through you check. Yes. I think that's that's completely correct in terms of The policy with regard to playing fields. I think in this case They've got a plan to reinstate the pitch and I think there's also a letter of support from letter confirm the football club stating that no There's been no adverse impact in terms of pitch provisional matches being displaced And as well as that we have Sport England who've not objected but that's all on the basis of it being temporary So that you know obviously if it was the case that it would be permanently lost and those those matters obviously would would come to The floor but on the base that it's temporary and there's a plan to reinstate it and that we have no objection from Sport England or the football club itself I think we're happy to say that for an extra year wouldn't have an adverse impact in that respect Okay, Casa Cooper Sorry Can't be very quickly. Yeah through a chair. So I'm taken by that then you're saying that after March 2025 It will be back as a football pitch. Is that correct? Yes, there's an informative as well on the Recommendation as well, which which talks about the possible future implications if it were to be a permanent car park So it we'd be satisfied in this case at the condition that we'd be imposing Which is effectively a reimposition of the condition that was approved requiring it to be Reinstated this year would simply transfer over to next year So in the case that the car park wasn't to be removed, obviously We don't have the power to be able to ensure that did happen Okay, apologies cancer Cooper Not a problem Just I just wanted to try and better understand what the delays on producing The travel plan because there are places in West Oxfordshire. They've had travel plans Well for a long long time I'm gonna give you an example of one The NatWest training center at Heathrop, although that's now changed but it was a travel plan for that So they're not new things and I just wanted to try and get some information on why that is not in place And through you chair Just the travel plan is actually a separate matter and it's not directly related to this Particular application it was attached to the original Changes from engine halter estelle manor its Process is an ongoing process the estelle manor are learning their business and the clients. They've been bringing on Different parts of the hotel wave since they opened last May so the spa I think is the biggest most recent opening so that They submitted an interim travel plan And they are updating that now. So County they're working with County Council at the moment and that should be submitted fairly shortly because the pressure that's been put on by the Parish council and other people Councillor Ray Thank you very much. I mean I approve the extension of this car park, but I'm a bit confused because we've been talking quite in detail about the travel plan and you've just said That it's a separate matter. I would like to propose that we accept this but we introduce an additional Condition in in addition to the one that talks about the permitted ceasing of this Temporary car park because I accept the point you can't preclude another application coming in but if we introduce a condition in here that says that a Travel an acceptable travel plan needs to be produced before the expiry of this temporary extension That might tighten it up because the two are Interrelated aren't they goodness sake and they're not separate So if we actually tie it into a condition that we need a an acceptable travel plan that's agreed and accepted and that would then put a cease on the Lightlihood of a further extension for the car park. Thank you There is a proposal ready so you won't need to do a new proposal unless you want to confirm with counter could win There's a condition added to that Because I assume this condition Yes, so you chair so the site difficulty is as was just mentioned was the fact that the travel plan which is being referred to relates to the consent for the Wider works to create the SL manner site as opposed to this which is a different application site in my view. It wouldn't be It wouldn't be fairly related to that development You know we'd be trying to condition something that related to a different consent and trying to sort of Link across between the two which wouldn't necessarily meet the tests in terms of conditions that we can impose It would almost be you know, trying to trying to go beyond the scope of this application effectively So I would advise some caution in terms of seeking to yeah, it's obviously a different application side. So I would advise some Caution in terms of trying to do that But obviously in the knowledge that that travel plan is conditioned under an existing consent which relates to a different site So we do still have control over it It's just not necessarily the appropriate way of going about it to do it through this particular application. I Must confess I'm not convinced by this because we've had the discussion around the table that's gone back and forth and the travel pans featured quite prominently in this and is the basis for This temporary extension. So I mean I accept what you're saying, but I'm not convinced Okay, it caps like a zero and Simpson we have got proposal that I would need to get a vote on this If we look at the informatives on page 25 It leaves on from the what the counselor was saying obviously this applicant this applicant It says if he was minded to change from a temporary to a permanent Then can we on the informatives add something about travel plan? later on because that would make a lot more sense then we if he goes for opponent permission, then we'd have a plan you have to submit a Sorry a travel plan with it that when we could discuss and that would be formulate a better application. Can we add that to informatives? Counselor Simpson, I'm just wondering who owns the land whoever it is. I hope they're being paid Thank you chair so in terms of the additional informative What I would say is that we'd have quite significant concerns about the about making it permanent in terms of the loss of the pitch provision And I've seen in that case, you know, we wouldn't be if we're at that point, you know We wouldn't necessarily be issuing consent in any case So I think that if it came to that then, you know, we'd obviously have to consider whether that would be necessary but I think we might be speculating too much in terms of what's going forward because we The applicant is clearly stating the application that it's only for a temporary consent and they're not proposing that it is permanent so I think you know, we have to Take them on their word on that because you know, that's the person in front of us Okay, so we have the proposal go to votes the proposal if I remember correctly Was in favor of the officers recommendations to allow this all those in favor All those against any abstention Okay, that has passed. Thank you very much It brings us on to the last application which is elmfield, New York Road, I'm sure everyone knows a site I'll hand back over to the planning officer for the presentation first Thank You chair Just bear with me a moment while I try and bring it up on the screen here There we go, thank you so this application as we know is at elmfield Can we just Thank you So this application is at elmfield New York Road Whitney and the proposal is for installation of replacement rooftop solar panels So just a quick whiz through of the plans here so you can see from this This effectively block plan the three areas of roof panels, which would be replaced. So you've got predominantly south facing roof slopes, of course This Is a plan showing the site constraint so you can see the application site here You can just about see the boundary of the Whitney and cogs conservation areas runs to the south west of the application site But clearly see that there's some separation in terms of the site itself and in terms of the photographs of the site Members will obviously be well aware of this but this is the this is a photograph of this southern elevation so you can see this is the area of roof marked a on that previous plan and Then on this one here, you can again see this that being the entrance to the what was the reception there? And then this roof slope, which is the the roof slope marked B And then these photographs just show the site from the public highway so you can see I think this is the the area marked C And then again just a wider shot there And Again just showing the site in its kind of context showing the kind of verdant appearance of the area and the kind of screening provided by that wall as well as the mature trees and This possibly the most helpful which is just an example installation of the solar panels themselves So you can see that they're set flush with the roof slope. So we have no speakers on this application So I'll just was through and just get straight to the merits of it. So this application is brought for Members obviously due to it being related to a council and building The application is considered against schedule to part 14 class J of the town and country planning general Permitted development order and seeks to establish whether the works are permitted development So part for 14 of the GP do sets out permitted development rights with regard to renewable energy Class J specifically relates to the installation or alteration of solar equipment on non-domestic premises And that includes the installation of solar panels on office buildings Class J sets out the circumstances in which development is not permitted in this case and as set out in the officers reports the proposed Development in our view would not contravene any of those requirements Class J also sets out a number of conditions with which proposals must comply these include that the solar equipment must so far as practice It will be cited so as to minimize its effect on the external appearance of the building and the immunity of the area And that the equipment be removed when no longer needed in this case. The application has provided information to satisfy These conditions as set out you know as in our view it's been cited to minimize its visual impact given the flush nature of the Solar panels as well as it replacing existing solar panels and as a result officers consider The proposal is permitted development and that prior approval is not required for the proposed installation of solar panels. Thank you Okay, I've got two speakers so far first hand that was captain amebe I know I'm new to this committee But I have sat here for a very long time subbing for other people and I think it is custom and practice for somebody to Say if this wasn't our building Would it go through on delegated decision in which case can I just recommend that we go with the officers recommendation? To approve the planning application for solar panels to be replaced on our buildings roof, please So wonderfully done and I was seconded by the account of codes Yeah, it can't let us in you wanted to speak as well or was that to do the same thing? No, just a seconder Anybody else wish to make any decision points, okay We'll go straight to vote then all those in favor Perfect and then well executed by the way, come to me You are right to do that Okay, we go on to agenda item number seven. That's an urgent decision. I'll hand over to Abby to give us the information Oh ooh Hello members and I think I've got coffee in front of me This is this is simply to note an urgent decision taken by the chief executive Under urgency powers. Thank you and in relation to a matter that would otherwise have come to the subcommittee, but was time sensitive and required a quick decision So and I mean personally speaking I wasn't party to the decision but in terms of the governance around the decision One of the requirements was to to update the subcommittee given that you would have been the decision maker. Otherwise, you've got the aside from the short covering report, you've got the Delegated decision notice and I believe you've got the officer report That inform the decision as well So Yeah, happy to take any questions and I should also say there is a member briefing coming up on the 11th of July and that would be a good opportunity to to get further briefing on some of the issues around appeals and Yeah Matters related to that. Thank you. Councillor Levitan Thank You fully understand the movement if you like and the rapid response that you're having to make on this but Somewhere in the paperwork. It says that certain things that the developers come to the party and agreed which he previously hadn't That does infer by default that there's some stuff they haven't where have we had to compromise? on The original things. Can you remember? Was it obvious The so it's because it's going to appeal that the public inquiry is is it next week It's next week or the week after it was scheduled to be two weeks. It's now two days because We have come to this agreement. I can't tell you specifically but again We can pick that up on the 11th of July if you want more detail But it's it's it's moved so far that we were comfortable with making this decision Well, there were some major things and they have shifted quite significantly in terms of the county highways had objections on a number of Matters and that they've overcome the reasons for refusal. So that that's the issue those reasons for views have fallen away So it's made it's fairly significant changes to what was proposed You Comfortable that If we've given anything, it's small amounts. There's nothing there's not a great big gaping hole that we would have fought our corner with No, so the chief executive and the business manager for planning Met with the developer said they are comfortable that that the agreement they've come to is is acceptable Councillor Walsh I think my point being actually being clarified now because I yeah, I wanted for further clarification It's precisely what has been agreed Or not because there's nothing in our paperwork. We've got at the moment. That's we've told that things have been agreed But we don't know what they are You So I think I'd refer you to sort of them Page 35 36 in the report, which is the the officer report that informed the decision So you've got very short covering report, but you've actually got the the officer report which sets out in a bit more detail some of the circumstances as Abby said highways You know remove their their objection to this so the position changed quite substantially So that is the detail that the decision was was based on is is set out in front of you as I say if there's more Granular detail that's needed then the member briefing is probably the place to get into that Okay For the best manager no, okay So I've been advised even those for noting we do need to vote that through so can I have all those in favor of the Proposer first of all and a second that same pose Nick council everton second encounter could win See, I thought it's just for noting not for voting as well voting voting now all those in favor of the proposal to accept See how much okay. Thank you very much So now go on to Agenda item number eight, which is the application to an end of dedicated to powers and I believe they start on page number 42 43 Can I just ask the officers on item number one a food retail outlet on the business park in Carterton it's been refused. Can I ask what the basic outline of why the refusal is there please? The application came forward without a full transport assessment so County objected to it The applicant was given more time. I think it was nearly a year to get that information together And then we just ended up giving them a deadline to say they hadn't fulfilled those Negotiations with the County Council So yeah, it's likely to come back Okay cuz it's on number one this is item number one, okay Council washes up for item number one. No. Okay. So page 44 Okay, it's number two always in Stan Stan Lake as you know, we've got an existing dwelling of two joints have been Reconstituted and the highways has been left in a complete state now It's not our responsibility But the applicant the application itself meant that the highways were damaged and I'm trying to get the bottom of it again a county officer What our officers to deal with it? It's not happening How can we make sure because this is just up the road from this literally up the road for this week doesn't happen again Can we put any conditions? Can we do anything to assume? That's okay, that's cool, okay I paid for people by 46 47 48 49 50 Okay, that's a liberty Item 36 It's been turned down you just do me the brief outline why because Somebody said it wasn't in a sustainable position as I read the paperwork. I'm all right For a few so on this was I know the site I know there were concerns about Comprehensive development because there's a number of Proposals for land around there that are coming in through the local plan and the search for sites and whether this one on its own is actually compromising a better development elsewhere and there was also concerns about amenity for Residents with the football club and floodlighting and everything else. So there's a number of bits and pieces on that one I think Joan was the officer so case officer. Yeah. Okay, just it seems funny that we're turning something down on a maybe and it might be That might be coming over the hill We haven't seen that I Take your word for that Okay, continue page 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 cancer wolf Okay, so for those in here the wants a clarification what EIA not is meaning on the plan It means it's not EIA development So it was a screening opinion so on certain applications they Developers will ask us whether or not we consider it needs to be Have an EIA accompanying the application and in this instance, we don't consider it does Council EIA's environmental impact assessment The not is not needed and page 60 Fantastic okay agenda item number nine that are some appeal decisions. So I'll hand over to Thank you chair, so the first appeal decision on there is maudlin farm in stand lake So that was for the demolition of two redundant farm buildings and the change of use of the site from agricultural to residential The erection of a one-and-a-half storey detached dwelling house with integral garage and in that case the appeal was dismissed the main issues were the impact of the proposed on character and appearance of the area including The setting of grade two listed building which was maudlin farmhouse itself and a nearby scheduled ancient monument as well as this location and impact on archaeology Effectively the inspector held up all of our those various harms that we found so harm to the character and appearance of the Area due to the loss of the agricultural character in favor of a backlamp and suburban form of development Which related poorly to the settlement pattern? and also harm to the setting of the listed building and scheduled ancient monument as well as conflict with the Housing locational strategy given it was back down for development set away from the main area of the village And despite the tilted balance all those harms were found and as a result the inspector dismissed that appeal So moving on to Old Manor in Broadwell So this was a listed building center application to move an internal staircase effectively and in that case we had refused it on the grounds of heritage impact due to that loss of Historic fabric and it was found that whilst the stair was a late tradition it was in the location of a historic stair and therefore retained a degree of Evidential value as an indicator of the historic plan form And therefore whilst the bent whilst the harms are only modest There was no public benefits outweighing it and as such that one was again dismissed So then on to Manor cottage in Black Borton So this one was unfortunately allowed the issues in that case were the effect of the development on the character and appearance of the area And the host property itself as well as the setting of some nearby listed buildings The council's concerns that the accumulative effect of the proposed extension when read in the context of previous editions would have a harmful effect envisioned impact terms unfortunately in that case the inspector Discrieved with us and said that the proposed extension would say acceptably and harmoniously in its visual context Without harming the character and appearance of the property or its surrounding so unfortunately that one was overturned and then the final one relates to 15 17 and 19 Church Street, Duckington and that was to render all external walls of the dwellings and in that case Again, the key issue was about character and appearance of the area and the building itself, which was a non-designated heritage asset And again, the inspector found that the materiality of the building was found to contribute positively Not only to its own significance, but also to the character and appearance of the wider area and the conservation area and as such in the absence of any Benefits throughout way that was again dismissed. Thank you, Joe Okay. Thank you very much for that counter given Not to my knowledge no Super okay. That's the end of the meeting before we leave though If you've already noticed there is a new planning officer to start to my left. So welcome to the team For those of you might have noticed there's also two members two people sat at the back of the room to your right They are our new planning officers who have replaced the ones that departed last fiscal year I'll hand over to Abby to do a quick brief introduction to say hello to them Thanks, yeah. So yeah, Jamie's taken over and is now heading up the loan. He's a team leader for lowland So if you've got any burning questions Contact Jamie or myself and we've got Josh and Nathan his it's their first day today So they've had the pleasure of your company on their first day Josh is going to be in lowlands team and Nathan's going to be an uplands team Josh is on the left (Laughter) (Laughter) (Inaudible) [SIDE CONVERSATION] [BLANK_AUDIO]