Transcript

and welcome to this annual meeting of West Oxfordshire District Council. I'm Andrew Coles, the Chair of the Council for the 2023-24 year and my final act as your chair is to preside over the election of a new chair for the municipal year 2024-2025. Can I seek nominations please for the position of Chair of Council? Anyone? It is me. As Matthew would say, there's absolutely no point in giving me a script because I always forget to read it. It gives me enormous pleasure. It gives me enormous pleasure to formally propose Councillor Elizabeth Poskitt for the role of chair. Is there a seconder for that? Thank you. Thank you. It gives me pleasure to second the nomination. If you don't mind, if I could say a few words about Councillor Poskitt, who has actually been on this council some time really as a ward councillor and has served on many committees and has also represented I know you, Chair, and I know you'll say something about that. But in terms of her fulfilling the role as Chair of this Council, I think what it's about time and too she'll do a good job. So I really, on that note, actually endorse the recommendation as you've put. Thank you. I'm glad somebody reads their script. Are there any other nominations? Okay. In that case, if I could put it to the vote please, all those in favour of Councillor Poskitt assuming to Chair? Thank you very much. That's unanimous. So congratulations, Councillor Poskitt. And it gives me enormous pleasure to hand over the reins to you. Thank you. Yes, thank you. So we just need Councillor Poskitt now to sign the Decoration of Acceptance of Office. Thank you. a lot of you. Thank you. [No audio] Well, thank you very much. I'm very honoured to be in this position and, you know, the face you've given me. I just hope I should be able to keep up to your expectations. I'll give a few words about Andrew a little later on, perhaps. Before moving on with the business of the meeting, I'd like to welcome all members, officers, well, new members particularly, and members of the public in attendance and those watching online. We're not expecting a far alarm, but if there is one we will exit in an orderly fashion, congregate in the front car park and await further instruction. Please can you all make sure your mobile phones are off and all other electronic devices are silent. And as you probably know, we're being live streamed, so please can all members speak clearly and slowly. Just remind me if I'm going too fast, as I do tend to speak rather fast, with that microphone on. And when you finish speaking, don't be like me and forget to turn it off. Please turn it off as well. This enables all speakers to be heard, and the web casting of the meeting to run smoothly. Once you've finished just speaking, turn your microphone's office. I've just said this. At the conclusion of the meeting, there is the short meetings for development control, licensing committee, and ordinance and governance and quick succession. And I recommend, even if you're not on those committees, you stay, because this is followed by a planning meeting, which I think everyone has expected. It's intended for all councillors. And the purpose of the short meetings is for the committees to elect their chairs and vice chairs and to appoint members to subcommittees. So they're short, but very much to the point. Following those meetings, you're encouraged to save the planning, which is important for all members. It is mandatory if you're expecting to participate in a meeting to determine planning applications, or might wish to substitute in such a meeting in the future. I think that's the sort of general business out of the way. If you could go back to the agenda, please couldn't someone propose for someone for the position of vice chair of the council for the 2002-425 civic year. Councillor Lainwright. May I nominate Councillor Andrew Coles for vice chair, please. Do we have any other nominations? It was in favour of Councillor Coles. Anyone against? Anyone abstaining? Thank you very much. Many congratulations. Oh, thank you very much. When I get the thing right, thank you very much. Oh, I seem to have done something about this back. Thank you very much indeed. It's a huge honour to be asked to continue in this role, and I'm sure I should work hard as I have done. I hope for the last year. Thank you so much. Just to confirm that Councillor Coles is just signing his declaration at acceptance of office. Item three, apologies for absence. Chair, thank you. Apologies for absence have been received from Councillors Joy Eitman, Alaric Smith, Andrew Lyon, David Melvin, David Cooper, and Charlie Maynard. Chair and Councillor Malvin. Thank you very much. Item four, declarations of interest. You'll notice on your agenda item 12, which pertains to Councillor allowance, but there's a general dispensation in place which enables all members to vote on decisions about allowances. So to some extent you're all interested, but in this particular occasion, there's a dispensation. Are there any other declarations of interest? If you become aware of something during the meeting, then please indicate at the appropriate point that you do have an interest in the matter. Thank you very much. The minutes of the previous meeting, which page is 722 on your agenda papers, would anyone like to raise any matters of accuracy? Yes, at the back. Yes, I'll do that. So we'll now vote on the accuracy of the minutes. With the amendment as indicated. Sorry, is someone else? I'd like to propose that, and I believe my colleague here in a second. Those in favour? Anyone else? Anyone against? Anyone abstaining? Thank you very much. The minutes are accepted to prove to whatever the right word is. Item 6, receipt of announcements. It says any announcements from the chair. Well, it's particularly honoured to be here, and I thought perhaps I would start by introducing the new members. Maybe if I call your name and you stand up so we can all see who you are. Adam Clements. Steve Cozier. Councillor Jenny Earley. Roger Faulkner. Councillor Parle, Paul Marsh. Councillor Stucome. Carol. Sorry, my apologies. Councillor Nigel Rydpath. Councillor Sarah Feesey. Good, yes. We're all sat together. Please don't hesitate to ask the person in front of you if you don't understand what's going on, or just indicate, because it's nice if you had someone who knows the road sitting next to you, but it hasn't been arranged that way. We can't really adjust you this point because it all comes up with your name on and that sort of thing. But welcome. You've no doubt had very hard for one fight to get here, and congratulations, and I hope you will enjoy being part of Council. Thank you. I think we should also just remember that some people have left us, some because they decided to leave us, some because of the cruelties of democracy, as it were. I think I'll read up their names and I'll make particular comments about some. Jeff Haynes is at Nichols, Matthew Parkinson, Colleen Dingell, Paris Engine, Al Al Yussif, Mark Johnson, Dean Temple. I think particular interest, well not interest, particular comment is Jeff Haynes, who was a Councillor for many, many years, over 20, I think, 24, thank you very much, and who did sterling work particularly as chairing the uplands committees, and I knew him quite well having sat on uplands myself, and his some views were always those of someone to experience, someone with balance, and they were wise, and he will be a loss, even though, you know, and to some extent, has to accept that someone else has come into his place and all success to them. Some of the others are also longstanding, but perhaps it's inappropriate to sort of pick them all out and that kind of thing, but we hope that they will be happy now they're off council and finding other ways to entertain them. Yes, yes. Okay, so that's one comment. I think as some new chair, perhaps some I should say that I'm going, for Niss' wedding to Canada in June for a fortnight, and when some of you may recall about a year ago we had a visitation from the mayor of Woodstock and his wife and a member of their art gallery. They were coming to see Woodstock, the museum in Woodstock particularly, but we burdened them with sitting through a council meeting here, which wasn't actually our most exciting council meeting. And when I was going to Ontario, I thought, well, this will be the time to meet up with Woodstock of Ontario, because it's not very far away, and they have arranged me to pick me up the day after I arrive in Canada at 9 o'clock in the morning so that I can have the pleasure of enjoying their council meeting. So if I may, I will take the greetings from Woodstock to Woodstock, Ontario. They're considerably larger place in Woodstock, I think there's something like 48,000 people, so it'll be a rather different experience. As some chair, I'm not expected, but my custom one has charities, and I've thought about this a bit, and I think what I shall propose, and I hope I shall be as successful as Andrew, as Councillor Colle has been with his charitable events, but in Woodstock, there's what he's called the Woodstock Exhibition Foundation, which was started by someone in the 17th century, I think, maybe the 16th, as a grammar school for the town, and when the grammar school eventually closed in the early part of the 20th century, it had various transmogrifications, and now it gives modest grants to children who have at least one Woodstock parent, who are going on to university or training or that kind of thing, and it does this every year, and I've been a trustee of that for some time. So that was one thing, the Woodstock Exhibition Foundation. In Woodstock, you know, we have the Oxfordshire Museum, it's not the Woodstock Museum, it's the Oxfordshire Museum, and I've been a long-standing member of Friends of that, which raises funds for either upgrading the museum or occasionally, you know, when they have items that they want to buy, it's quite useful for providing core funding towards that, and the advantage of giving to the Friends is that it's a charity, so don't take taxes where you can gift aid them and that sort of thing, rather than just giving it direct to the museum, which anyway is under OCC control, and the final thing is, I think it was my father, actually, who started doing things for Save the Children Fund when he first came to Woodstock way back in the '70s. My mother had a very successful big bring-and-buy for many years, and I've had a very successful single bring-and-buy for Save the Children Fund in Woodstock annually since then, and the people of the Carterton branch have always helped me a lot because there isn't a Woodstock branch, and so I thought, as a third charity, we would also give to Save the Children Fund, which particular relation to the Carterton branch, because to some extent spread things out, and it's not just Woodstock concerns, so those are what I propose, I haven't told them, but I assume that they will be happy to accept them. What else? Yes, I think the other things, I was just going to say, stay in the room after this meeting because of the planning sessions, so don't desert and just think we'll have some development control, so I think that's all I have to say at this point, so I'll now call upon the leader for himay who comment. I have no announcements on this occasion, but I'll store them for future meetings. Sorry, Chief Executive, Director of Governance, and Director of Finance. Thank you very much, well we've passed that one quickly over. Item seven, thanks to the retiring Chair, it's always difficult really to, when they're sitting beside you, and you've got to know them so much, but I can only say that from my own point of view, Andrew, Councillor Colton, has been a wonderful Chair. I think you would all agree with that, and I think the confidence you put in him at the beginning was there. He's managed to chair meetings in really a very graceful, cool, calm, collected way, dealing with any difficulties just as if they were a sort of, well, a traffic channel, a bus stop or something like that. I'm used to those. In addition to that, and maybe that is what gives him this cool, calm, collected approach, not getting fussed when he has to sit and wait, but he's been a pleasure to work with, and he has certainly represented the Council very well over the year, and he has done sterling work raising funds for charity. Not only, I mean, you will recall that when this place was still in its old, fashioned way, we had an open day, which actually opened up the bomb shelter, which was somewhere I'd never been to before. For those of you who knew, when the atomic bomb drops, there is somewhere where you can go and hide, as it were, so you'll be looked after properly. And he, of course, the quiz night last week was a great success, even if the team of retired chairs or just expectant chairs came second to last, it was very enjoyable. So I think I can congratulate you for that, and it's a pleasure to have him by my side again, even if our rolls are now cox and box or whatever it is. So I hope that you will be able to give us a round of applause to Councillor Andrew Rose. Yes, Leader? It's always a bit of a surprise to chairs of Council when they've finished their term of office and wondering how can that be summed up. And in Andrew's case, when I first knew Andrew coming into the Council, they said, Oh, you must meet Andy Coles. I thought, Great, that footballer, he's here! But even though he wasn't the one, he certainly is Andy Coles, and he actually has his own authenticity, and he brought that to bear in his role as chair. And I think we're all the better for it, because he gave integrity, honesty, and transparency in the way he conducted the Council meetings, and he was also very fair. And I think that really is a tribute to who you are as a person, and I think all of us here recognise that. And thank you very much, but after this all, I know others might want to speak to, but thank you. Yes, thank you very much. In 2012, Councillor Puskett's chair, we both joined this Council alongside Councillor Coles. And I'm proud to say that he has been a good friend for quite a while before that, and ever since, and also an extremely good comrade. I went to the football on Saturday in Wembley, a little game. It turned out great. And who should be on the upstairs of the bus, but the chair of West Oxford to District Council? See you next to me. As we've done before, to go and watch some pretty ropey games against Cheltenham and Northampton and others during the season. Thank goodness we were into the Peterborough one. That was pretty good. But yes, it's an absolute pleasure. I always knew he'd be an excellent chair, but it's a pleasure to be in the position now to say thank you for an excellent year. It was as pain-free as it could be for all of us, and actually a pleasure because of the humour you bring to the role and the lightness of touch with which you keep us all in order. So I'm also delighted that you accepted our invitation to continue as Vice Chair because I know that having you on the top table will ensure that our meetings are friendly and purposeful. Thank you very much indeed, Andrew. May I say a few words? Yes, can I just, in Councillor Ian Wright's comment about himself and myself and Councillor KELLS joining Council at the same time, so also did Liz Leffman and look at where we are now. So it was obviously a very good vintage set here. And also please be careful what you say about Saturday's match. I come from Bolton in Langgisshire. Thank you, Chair. And thank you all very much for your kind words, both said in the chamber and downstairs earlier. It really is very much appreciated. It's a year that certainly had its challenges, not least with the necessary repairs that have had to undertake at the Councillor Chamber and the committee rooms, which has kind of stalled some of the things that I may, you know, had wanted to do. But I think overall it's been a really good year, and I have been both proud and honoured to represent this Council and our communities at numerous engagements and civic events and functions throughout the year. There simply isn't enough time to mention all of them, but a few that stood out for me were the official opening of the Whitney Pride Grade and Festival Day just days after I assumed office last year, attending the change of command ceremony at the US Air Force's 501st Combat Support Wing and really working to ensure good working relations between our two nations and our two communities. The opening of the new Aspire Hub numerous charity fundraising events throughout the district, the local environment, groups conference, the second anniversary of the Aston Day Centre, which really was quite a lot of fun, doing the exercises with the members was a site. I'm sure none of you would have wanted to have seen. Attending his Majesty's Lord, Lieutenant's Awards at Plan and Palace and of course the very moving remembrance service that we had in Whitney back in November. And at Christmas I think I attended four Carol concerts in six days. It really was quite a tight program. But one thing that stood out to me was some of the remarkable individuals within our community in West Oxfordshire and, you know, they really do do us incredibly proud and it's one of the reasons why I'm so honoured to both live and work in West Oxfordshire. I would just like to take this opportunity to thank everyone who has supported my charity fundraising events throughout the year, whether you came to the afternoon tea that the chair alluded to, the spooktacular Halloween event we had previously and the quiz night last week and those that bought raffle tickets or donated prizes or sent donations. I really am incredibly grateful. I'm pleased to say that I have raised 3,000 pounds for my charities, which I know will help them all enormously. I couldn't end without just thanking a few special individuals, firstly our new chair, who as my vice chair was incredibly supportive and helped deputise for me on a number of occasions and always was there to help entertain our visitors and our guests. She really has been brilliant, which is why I was so pleased to see her elected as our new chair, but also as her vice chair I can try and return the favour and keep our double act going for another 12 months. I would also like to thank the amazing staff here at West Oxford District Council, not least the fantastic team at democratic services, they really do the fantastic work for us. The media and publicity team often get overlooked, Sharon and Zina in the elections office, Ella Gray and lastly Mandy Smith, who really is someone incredibly special, who does so much behind the scenes, we all owe her a huge debt of gratitude and not least of all me. And finally, folks, following on from Councillor ENRITE's last comment, I can step away from chair knowing that Oxford United are back where they belong in the championship, where they were when I bought my very first season ticket back in the 1980s. So let's hope we'll soon be cheering them on from the new stadium as well. Thank you very much. It's in my comments I've admitted the fact that we should have thanked the electoral services for all the hard work they did and it might have seemed that they had less than usual to do because they didn't have the town council elections, but of course those non-elections for town council engendered an awful lot of work in themselves and then of course in addition to the district council there was the police and so there's a lot of sorting of ballot papers and late night work and I think we are extremely grateful to all of them for the particular work they did there. Yeah. Right. I think we now come to the report of the leader. Councillor GRAN. Thank you, Chair. Just covering really and welcoming really the fact that the West Oxfordshire Alliance has increased its size as a result of the action and we've delighted to say that my deputy leader and also for economic development is back with us and that's where my core now will deputise for me in various ways and various bodies to carry on the work of the Alliance and the partnership working which is very much an embodiment of what this council, we believe is all about is making successful outcomes for our communities and ensuring their voices heard however small those voices are they are all important and so moving on in my report the executive members I firstly wanted to thank Councillor Joy Eitman because she actually took the role of stronger healthy communities and for her own reasons she's actually not standing with that portfolio but she has actually done an excellent job for us and really was so diligent and she hard working in every way and I certainly will miss her and I'm certain that our colleagues will in her role but having said that, Rizvana Paul has taken her place and we're looking forward to the challenges that she will bring to the role and to all of us but she knows that I do say things with tongue and cheek but similarly she does too so we're looking forward to that continuing relationship with Councillor Al-Alex Smith in finance continuing his role Charlie Maynard in planning and sustainable developments, Jeff Sol in his role of housing and social care, Lydia Articheska in environment, Andrew Prosser in climate action and nature recovery which is a re-title of the to really emphasise the need for climate action and nature recovery so that is a slight change of emphasis but the nuances is not just a nuance it is actually a meaningful change that we will see successful outcomes and Councillor Tim Sumner with his developing role in leisure and major projects. In my report also is the appointments to the future Oxfordshire Partnerships and its advisory groups and I will actually represent the Council and the future Oxfordshire Partnership on environment, Councillor Andrew Prosser on housing and advisory group, Councillor Jeff Sol, Infrastructure and Advisory Group, Councillor Charlie Maynard alongside planning and the advisory group. My other part of the report is confirmation of the executive scheme of delegation as set out in part 3D and fall of the Constitution which is a standard item which actually appears every year and that is what I need to do in this report and the final aspect of the report deals with the appointments of any member champions and I just like to say we had one of our champions which truly is a champion, often people sort of question what champions are and I kind of think it's actually not the title it's what they bring to the title that really is not just symbolic but meaningful and India May was with us today on a number of occasions she's actually represented this Council from a youth perspective and she was there with a deputy broad left tenant and I kind of thought that is a correct marrying of status because what is it that they bring? One is about our culture and our heritage and our past but also what is our future if our future isn't with our young people then we have no future but the two together is a balance of the two and I mentioned it because there are other people who in the role of champions and what I wanted to do and not announce is further champions other than those that currently exist but to bring forward a paper about champions so that we make sure that India May's example is followed through and we have a really good look at what do we want to be represented by and who should fulfill that role in some cases it may well be dancers but in other occasions it is our community and I would suggest that is a balance of the two that will work together so on that there's a deferment in the recommendation there of the announcements of further champions which will be a result of discussions with group leaders and myself and we'll bring that forward to the next council meeting once that work has been done and that concludes the recommendations which I I therefore put once if there's any questions I'm happy to answer any. Are there any questions for the leader? We need a proposal to note this report. Are you prepared to propose it? Yes. Thank you very much and seconded by a councilor and right. Any further comments? Do we vote to note the vote to note the report? Those in favor? Anyone against? Anyone abstaining? Thank you very much. The report is noted. We now get the returning officers report on elections held on May 2nd and again I reiterate my thanks to them because I mean when you sit there well not sit there stand there on election night and see these people busily sorting out or whatever one forgets that some of the been there since about six o'clock in the morning setting up the polling stations and then dealing with them all and then coming on at ten o'clock at night to the count and then when we go home at about three o'clock in the morning there still got to tidy up and prepare for the next morning and it's it's an incredible work and of course preparatory to that is an enormous amount to make sure that the whole thing goes smoothly so our thanks to them are enormous but I will now ask the who's over the leader speaking you which I find yes sorry I'm on a roll a bit on this but I'll be short because you've covered both of the things that I was going to say which is fine a chair but the listing of the on the agenda gives all the results of the elections and I just if I could there were two members of staff that really did all that preparatory work and I picked them out because it's not just on this one occasion it's on a number of elections that they really have gone out of their way and you wouldn't believe if I told you that sometimes I'm leaving this building at seven o'clock those two are still there because of their commitment to the job to make sure it is as good as they can get it whatever the challenge is thrown by last minute government sort of guidelines of this or that they certainly do it and I did take it as an initiative and I knew you would back back it is present them with a bouquet of flowers to both of them it's just the token well that always all it is for the incredible work and they are what we is a council are proud of our staff because of what they do and I hope you actually feel likewise so that completes the report yes so we need a proposal and seconder thank you very much the the leader and the deputy leader all those in favor anyone against anyone abstaining thank you very much we now go on to appointment of members of the council's committee it includes some changes for size and membership of the auditing governance committee which is perhaps the thing we need to give a bit of attention to um council grand would you like to speak yes if i can just take you through this um i think you will find this paper there's a lot of papers around at the moment it is the paper that says supplement for council and it's the gender rights and ten and it says pages five and six which i'll just refer you to um because on annex b in table one it actually uh it's actually the tables which have been through the leaders um to actually put forward their their members into the various um committees including the audience auditing governance which as the chair said is a recommendation to reduce the size down to the new size of 11 and that seemed to have general consensus across the chamber the overview and scrutiny is still at 24 the development control is at 24 licensing over the page at 11 performance and appointments and then the working groups for appointments are the constitution working group local plan working group and table three covers the external bodies for appointment by council at this meeting only and i'll just draw your attention that other external appointments will be covered at a separate meeting and that will be i will also talk to leaders about nominees for those bodies and so that we get the right people the best people who can actually sit on that on on behalf of the council um so um on that therefore is item that's the first recommendation to establish the council committees as defined in those papers i just referred to um there is also the political balance which is in annex a the uh agree to the reduced size which they have covered on the audit and governance um agree to the a rule in the constitution that no members of the executive will sit on the audit and governance and we've made sure that's the case um that was new authorized officers to undertake a recruitment exercise for the two independent persons to become non-elected members of the audit and governance committee and those two are the addition to the 11 um that is stated in the table and that was felt to be a really good useful um idea to put forward and take through as good practice as been done by other councils um then finally the last few um cover the um the um council has served on the committee work i've done that one already uh note the arrangement to substitute set out in part five of the report so i think really that's all the recommendations there and unless there's anything that in the papers in that table in particular but it has been through um democratic services it's been chased and checked across the various um group leaders so on that basis and less leaders have got any amendments to that i so propose those recommendations as listed in the papers do you have a seconder do you wish to speak may i with one small amendment please chair to the list as as given the local plan working group is meant to be a group of 10 plus i believe the executive member ex officio and so we'd like to move the membership in the tables all the other all the other stuff i agree with in the tables um adding uh council archie cheska to the list for the local plan working group and excluding Charlie Maynard as he is ex officio as executive member for planning does that make sense i second that uh amendment i i don't know if that was picked up um because i know there was a discussion on that i'm sorry yes do you understand what's being suggested that um the um Charlie Maynard council may not is um executive member on that ex officio and so there is another member um which would come from the the libdem group and it's being suggested council archie cheska understand it takes that place um council need yeah sorry can we just check in the constitution that we do have an ex officio on a local plan working group i didn't think we had ex officio on that one or any so um local plan working group isn't covered by the constitution it's as a working group um so i'd need to refer to the terms of reference um that council agreed previously so if you focus just have a moment to look at that sorry to cause complications chair i wonder for the sake of simplicity we might approve everything else by that depending um mr. Brown's examination and then come back to it once he's clarified the situation that sounds very sensible um so that will be leaving out um i suppose the um six bullet point is that just for the moment that element alone um in this you're not electing the chairs of committees that's done by the meetings after this meeting but you're just electing the members of the committees okay so shall we take these items with that um as a clear exemption um and vote on them on mass chair i say propose with that amendment those in favor anyone against anyone abstaining um so it's carried and we'll sort that last little bit out and when we've found the um terms of reference of the committee of the working group um are you we come to item 11 scheme of officer delegations um the council's asked to adopt the constitution and agree the scheme of delegation for non executive functions set out in part four of the constitution um there's a link in the to the constitution in your gender pack for if you want to access meetings but clearly it's a bit difficult if you haven't looked at you already um but take it on trust as it were. Council Graham would you like to propose this? Yes chair i just proposed the recommendation as as written it is something that is done every civic year. Council Graham would you like to? Yes put the recommendation chair. Thank you very much um those in favor that we adopt the council's constitution and agree the scheme of officer delegation. Anyone against? Anyone abstaining? So it's agreed we adopt the constitution as per the motion. Um the recommendations of the independent remuneration um panel um it's it's this is um an independent panel that meets to consider counselor allowances um in September 23 the council changed the structure of overview and scrutiny committees and in doing so after the panel to consider whether a special responsibility allowance um should be paid for the position of vice chair of the overview and scrutiny committee um and if so at what level and whether any back dating should be applied um the panel has some considered the matter and their recommendations are on page 35 of the agenda pack. Um so um i'd call on the leader to um propose. Yes chair um i i kind of think this has actually done the round so to speak in terms of it's been looked at and uh the party leaders are aware of this one um i kind of think it's you know in keeping with the new responsibilities and the size of the uh overview and scrutiny committee and of course the developing role and important role that that committee really takes and there will be an increased um role for it and therefore it seemed appropriate that when the independent remuneration panel looked at it they looked at it in that in that context and therefore i have um i would put to the council that we agree with the recommendations of the independent remuneration panel as set out um in the papers uh one and two which includes two includes the back dating of the payment which relates to the time when that committee was actually um formed uh so i so move. Yes mayor second i just have two comments really um the first is the uh hope that scrutiny and the overview and scrutiny committee will continue to expand its work so the role for a vice chair of this committee may well expand as well including such things as um chairing deep dives and specific pieces of work i think which which might come forward and need uh further investigation the second is uh i i always kind of feel that if an independent panel recommends something you've got to listen to have pretty good reason to vote against it so i'm that's why i'm secondly in this case. Anyone wish to make this? Councillor BEANING. Thank you chair um i've seen the recommendations but i haven't actually seen the report from them and we usually get a copy of the report where do i find it please? So the report in the park is is an officer report setting out setting out their conclusions i haven't written their own report for this for this particular matter but you're right that normally if they were reviewing the allowances scheme as a whole they produce a sort of comprehensive report themselves um in this case because it's a single change we've just we've just presented the outcomes of that in an officer report. Just for clarification then that wasn't an independent report. The report was um was written by officers and approved by the panel members all of them so it's there it's their report so we've done we've written it and in depending on the outcomes of their deliberations and they've agreed with they've agreed with how we've set it out okay thank you for the clarification. Any more points? Thank you very much um so we um you wish to say it and make any further comment? Nothing to add changes to move the recommendation. Those in favor? Anyone against? Anyone abstaining? Oh one yes. Thank you very much. So we agree the Council's independent remuneration panel recommending these various things. Item 13, slightly curious but always interesting. Appointment of a temporary parish councillor to Fulbright Parish Council. Um Council's asked to consider the appointment of a temporary member of Fulbright Parish Council. This will enable the parish council to be quarantined and then co-op new parish councillors. If it doesn't do that couldn't say what happens I suppose it ceases to exist. The report also seeks a delegation to the Director of Governance to make orders and temporary appointments to town parish councils to enable town parish councils to remain quarantined forward. Um I've experienced this having been a member of Bladen Parish Council for about 15 minutes some years ago. Um Council Graham would you wish to speak? Do you wish to speak? I didn't know you were inviting me to move the recommendation. I apologise. Yeah I think it is rather a curious one but this happens from time to time and of course there was only one candidate who was actually elected as a result. Um description if I can remember rightly is nearly exhausted. Um well was the bracketed sort of title by their name and I kind of felt sorry the subway and yet I believe some work has been gone. It's already well underway and it's only until um the first parish council is the likelihood is is they will be quarant at that first council meeting after which time there is no need to actually have um councillor Ashton actually chairing effectively the meeting but thank you very much for doing it. It's not um uh hopefully not often if it happens um but when it does we do as an authority after stepping. So on that basis chair I move the recommendations um if there's no further questions um uh one to three as in the paper on page four. Do we wish do we have do we have a seconder? Yes surely. Councillor do you wish to speak? Councillor Ashton. I was only wanting to say that I'm prepared to accept this responsibility and to put my best endeavors forward for the 15 minutes. Thank you. We're extremely grateful. Hopefully your parish will also be grateful. Congratulations on being appointed. Those in favour? Anyone against? Anyone abstaining? Thank you very short. Oh yes surely. Um you're ready to go back are we? We now go back to item uh then thank you um the local plan working group. Thank you chair. So our reading of the terms of references that the um executive member for is it planning and sustainability attends by virtue of that role rather than as a normal member so ex-fisher. So the-- Councillor. Thank you so much for that clarification. It seems that my amendment is probably the correct one then in that case and Councillor Archie Tesco is the person I would like to substitute for Councillor Maynard on that list in the local plan working group and I hope that's acceptable to the full council. Thank you. Are we in favour of that um modification amendment? Thank you very much those in-- do you want to make a count? Yeah there's no property hands over this side of the road. Yes keep your hands up please. [inaudible] Those against? [inaudible] Abstaining. Correct. Anybody else up? So carried. So it's carried so congratulations you're on the local plan working group. Thank you very much. We now go back to item 14-- 14. Thank you very much um dates of future meetings. Councillor Graham would you like to propose this? Well yes Chair. There's been some discussion as you can imagine on this one but I kind of feel that the idea behind a proposal to change the time of the meeting of the 25th of September 24 to 6 o'clock on a trial basis as a one-off is the proposal and I'd like to speak to it once I've got a seconder. I know you don't normally look this way for a seconder from Councillor Graham but on this occasion I think it is a bit of a cross-party interest. Councillor Graham and I have discussed this at length and we kind of pushed for this. Many-- this council has evolved from when I first started and obviously many of you have been here longer than me and not everybody sitting here is retired and got lots of time on their hands and many people here now have got full-time jobs. I think to trial it for one meeting to have it at 6 p.m. So it makes it more inclusive for those that do have to nip out from work and also for those that members of the public that would like to attend. We're not asking for the whole calendar of the year to be changed. It's just this one-off meeting. Give it a go. See how everybody feels Councillors, public and officers and review it afterwards and I think it's a really good proposal so I'm very happy to second it. Thank you Chair. Following on from that I would like to propose an amendment to what's just been proposed and that is to defer the decision of the start time of the September meeting to our next meeting in July to enable members to be consulted and surveyed about their preferred start times ahead of a trial starting. The reason I wish to make this proposal is because I absolutely agree with Councillor M were that the two o'clock start isn't brilliant for some. The problem is a six o'clock start is going to be difficult for others and as of yet members haven't actually been consulted or surveyed as to what would work best for them. I'm particularly concerned for those with child care needs which would be excluded by evening meetings. I'm particularly concerned about public service workers, hospitality workers or that have graced this chamber before and I think it would be smart and sensible to actually have a survey of members first before trialling any particular alternative arrangement. That to me would be a very sensible way forward. It's important that we get this one right and not pleasing some at the disadvantage of others. So let's consult each other, let's try and find out what works for the majority and then decide to put it to a trial and see where we go forward. Thank you. Like a second that motion if I may. And the reason I do that, my background is from another authority in Hampshire and we took the decision to order all the times of the committees from two o'clock and when I first started I was 24 years old and working four time as a Councillor, working four time being a Councillor and there were a lot of young people who wanted to be Councillors at the time but were disenfranchised because of the timings but what the Council did very sensibly on I and I support Councillor Colle is to actually consult the members because all of us, well I work full time, there's lots of people who work full time but we have a consultation that we can actually come to maybe a middle ground. I think six o'clock is very good but most of the Council I've worked on are the four o'clock or half past four that allows that middle ground but I welcome a consultation because it allows all members to have their say and then the leaders can get together with all the information and the officers can to come up with a sensible time. So I support the amendment. I think I'm probably the youngest still here. I'm not. Thomas and Alex. I tend to agree with Councillor Cosia. I think the Democratic right is to have the vote on the original proposal and that's the way members, I don't understand. Yes, I'm coming to that. What a survey would really represent other than probably a very mixed time of some people suggesting four or five o'clock we're never going to really reach a consensus. I feel we should support the original proposal. It is just a trial and if we find that doesn't work then we can revert back. Thank you. I'm going to speak in favour of the amendment because I do see the value in a consultation first. It was mentioned earlier that if we trial this at six o'clock in September, we're all, you know, mandated to come to these meetings. We'll move heaven and earth to arrange the child care or rearrange our shifts as far as possible and keep apologies to a minimum. So the fact of having a meeting at six o'clock doesn't actually prove whether or not it's being convenient for people. Whereas listening to people, we know whether we can manage a six o'clock meeting on a Wednesday or not without trialing it. We've got many other meetings, other nights of the week. So listening to people and not just doing a kind of first pass the post which time wins but listening to the strength and the weightings of the arguments for people's personal reasons why their job is harder to move around at that time of day or whether the child care is even exists. It's wonderful that you can claim back for dependent care but whether there's anybody who's available to care for them and be paid for it is another thing. And to explore the options of these earlier evening times, which if people who are finding six o'clock impossible can do a half three or a four or a half four, then let's listen. Yes, when I heard this amendment was going to be proposed, I thought, oh, what a complication because it seems as though you could still have the consultation even after the six o'clock trial and I thought, well, the trial will at least get people to focus on it and then we can have the consultation afterwards. But I have to admit to having which absolutely should happen in a council chain by having been swayed by the arguments that I've heard from Councillor Smith just now and from every, I really genuinely, I've thought that others could be as well because it's really not a, you know, it's, I suppose what I'm not clear on is whether the exact timing of it. So is it right that what's being proposed is in the amendment is that we'd have the survey before the July meeting and then in the July meeting we'd vote on a recommendation informed by the results of the survey. I just, I mean, to take the other side for a minute just to see what, to make sure they're really both clearly represented, I'd have thought that it would have been possible after a trial of one particular time, it would still be possible for people to come in and say after that, well, actually, we think five o'clock would be better or four thirty would be better. But I think, yeah, on balance, I'm going to vote for the amendment just narrowly. Councillors, would you like to just clarify that point? Yes, no, it was exactly as Councillor Pearson indicated, so the amendment is to defer the decision of the start time of the September meeting to our next meeting in July to enable members to be consulted and surveyed about their preferred start times ahead of a trial starting. Thank you. It depends on the basis you've come here. When I first stood in 1982, the manager of TSP Oxford City checked with the chief person of the Woodstock Masonic Lodge and was told there's no way a liberal will ever get elected in Woodstock and wrote me a letter saying I could have offered as much time as I wanted. Oh, Gary, regretted that, didn't he? It does seem like a sensible amendment. The only thing I would actually say is this, for that survey to be worthwhile, so that we're not just kicking down a can down the road on the basis of a survey that's going to produce a whole collection of results. I take the point about the engagement and making sure that people have a bit more time to consider it and on that basis, bearing in mind we've looked at this, it's come up on Council year upon year and yet there are other councils who have actually made that decision. Now, Councillor Colle's is actually talking only about a couple of months in effect in order for that to be achieved. But that survey needs and it's only on balance would I actually kind of consider supporting the amendments on the basis that officers have got to create this. There may be a template in Cartsworld because they come to six o'clock times and I just want to make sure that the survey that we have is going to be meaningful, useful and will help us to make a decision that we are trying to make now. So, if it helps us to go a bit further than I think the only real value I can see if I was being truthfully honest is the point of engagement and giving members, particularly new members, a little bit more time on that basis I can kind of accept what is being proffered on the basis that we're going to have a decision at that point having looked at that survey. But the drawing of that service is the challenge for officers I'm afraid. So, just, you know, a word of caution there. Are you indicating you're prepared to accept the amendment as a proposal of the original motion? I'm at this stage, just actually, I'll wait because other people have indicated they want to speak if there's other points that are not being made. I'll just wait and reserve my right to do that. Thank you, Chair. I just make one very brief comment. My concern about the amendment can be summed up in one phrase, paralysis through analysis. Thank you. I do agree with the amendment if it does allow that analysis, quick analysis. I also share the view, you know, we should get on with this. But I think this does give time for a sensible decision that the, as long as that survey is done by the July meeting, I'm very flexible. I could vote now either way. I'm quite flexible and I'm certainly not retired, quite flexible in my time. But I would like to see the, so it's a one, a statistical survey of people's, how many people prefer certain times. And I would like to see any narrative that people, any comments that people have made to that. And I think that will help me make a better decision because I could vote either way, really. So I support the amendment if it's on that basis. Yes, you have. Sorry, yes. Anyone who hasn't spoken yet, wishing to speak, comes to crazy. It's just a point. Is there any weight in looking at other authorities? I know the leader mentioned the Cotswolds. So in this actual survey, it's to look at other authorities and see the reasons why they've changed. And that could be formed part of the consultation because, you know, I'm quite afraid of why this was done in previous authorities. But maybe members here aren't so afraid with it. So maybe that possibly could add weight to it. If we look at the officers to ask them to look at other authorities that have gone down this path, that that may help members to decide the sort of timings or their sort of thinking. Councillor Pearson. Thank you. Yeah, I just wanted to say, I mean, I could see that it could be that you could have, supposing, you know, 40 percent one to five o'clock and 40 percent wanted six o'clock. You know, meetings could be at different times, according to the different wishes of different proportions. But also, just to be really clear, when we say survey, this does literally mean probably an email out to all members. It doesn't mean it would not involve, I would imagine, any sort of consultant or significant expense of any kind. So I think when paralysis is mentioned, possibly other kinds of surveys are being envisaged, other than this would be something so simple. I mean, you know, you could do it on a WhatsApp thing nowadays, but surely we can manage it as a council. Councillor Walker briefly, please. Yeah, I think we've probably highlighted the pros and cons of a survey spending so much part of debating it. I wonder if the leader could confirm if he's sticking with his original proposal, if he's drawing it, perhaps we can just move to vote on the amendment and get this done? Yes, Councillor CUMMERS of it. And just to say that there's probably a lot of people for whom it's a preference and other people for whom it might be a practical obstruction to attendance and whether we should make sure to capture that, because I could probably vote either way and make it work, but there are maybe people for whom there is a practical obstruction to their attendance and that that should be prioritised. I mean, I was going to add myself that I think it's important that this doesn't make either way as possible because you don't want a majority of those answers yes or no, because they think one is better than the other, but they could have done any of them. Councillor GRAN, would you like to sum up, I think? Well, I did actually when we had discussed this. Sorry, someone apparently, I'm sorry, yes, Councillor. Yeah, I didn't realise this could turn into a bit drama, but it has done, so I say let's try six o'clock, works, it works, it doesn't, it doesn't. Just on this, to move it on, we did actually suggest that a free vote on it, on the matter, when we actually discussed it as leaders, we were going to put it so that people could say their preferences. I recognise what has been suggested as being an amendment and on balance just because we're not going to be kicking it down the road further than one meeting. I'm prepared to actually withdraw from the substantive motion on the basis that we do make sure we make a decision at the next meeting and hopefully, and I say hopefully, the information that comes back does inform it and it will be a bit of an awful feeling if it doesn't. Is the second of the proposal prepared to you will? Oh, you won't, sorry. Yes, yes, yes. Sorry, Chair, yes. So, could you repeat to us then that the motion, which is now the substantive, do we have to vote on it or do they both accept it? Yes, yes, so it's now the substantive motion, so what I'm proposing is to defer, which has been accepted the decision on the start times of the September meeting to our meeting in July to enable members to be consulted or surveyed, however you wish to word it, about their preferred start times ahead of a trial starting. [inaudible] I think that concludes this meeting, thank you very much. I'm sorry. Chair, are we going straight on or is there a five minute? So, have we got five minutes pause or not? Yes, I'm very happy for the, I think, development control is the first one that is to meet at 1520.