Housing & Regeneration Scrutiny Sub Committee - Monday, 13th May, 2024 6.30 p.m.
May 13, 2024 View on council website Watch video of meetingTranscript
good evening everybody welcome to the council chamber for housing scrutiny meeting my
name is Councillor Abdulmanan and I will share in this meeting this meeting will be heard
in person with the housing region script in sub community members along with the key
participant present in the meeting room while others are joining remotely one is one is
sub community members present in the meeting room can vote should the technical error occur
that prevent remote agendas from participating I will decide if and how the meeting should
proceed after taking advice from officers this meeting has been filmed for the council
website for public viewing those participants in the meeting will be included in their
footage I would remind members at the meeting to only speak on my direction and to engage
and speak clearly into the microphone and to ensure that the contribution can be properly
recorded those the physical attendant please use the microphone and must attend them up
when not speaking please have your mobile and silence virtual participant keep microphone
on mute except one speaking one one the exception of scrutiny member members 1v10 on your video
camera when speaking to say bandwidth the screen members are in case in regards to
keep the camera turned on and if members and officer joining remotely which to speak use
the race race had race hand function on the computer please do not use the remote meeting
chart function it will not be seen for those who are in the physical meeting so let's
say if you moving on any apology from anyone please no chair I've not received any apologies
Councillor CIPE is trying his best to join us in the late meeting and chair I've just
been informed that Councillor KABIRA will be here late but he will be here for his items
thank you chair chair chair sorry just informing Karen's also going to be late for her presentation
as well so she'll be attending for her presentation section as well thank you thank you so Karen
will be coming late as well okay members can you reduce yourself and declare new interest
please I'll staff on my right staff from the thank you chair Councillor CIPE and with
the white chapel ward and decorations I'm at Lee's hold tower in the homes well tower
I'm not having this council Councillor MOUSAGA that I've been west and I'll dip you thank
you I myself I will introduce I will not do the declare on this council ask my slum for
Weaver's ward and I don't have anything to declare I'm Councillor James King from
Limehouse some of the town let's cancel Lee's hold up Councillor MARF Frances from Buries
the ward no declaration so I'm going to introduce yourself hi I'm up and I'm a tenant
co-op tea and no no declaration of interest hi I'm Susanna I'm a resident representative
on from a lease holder I'm a lease holder of Tower Hamlet's homes
next item on the meeting is to prove the previous meeting can somebody second it please
okay slowly moving to third I was standing action the outstanding log has been
the papers have been submitted and I have no additions that have occurred since those
papers have been submitted so I would like to take those as read
you say something yes please so these are just as reported that there hasn't been responses
on them but can we just I don't know what's the way to express our desire that we do get
responses on them for in time for the next meeting do we need to resolve something yeah
because it just it feels like particularly in relation to the resident engagement issue
for what was Tower Hamlet's homes that that's not something it's not a can that should just
be repeatedly kicked down the road every every meeting like should we be right into them
say to say that we expect that report for the next meeting and they can ask them to obviously
snow as you said I'm standing dog it's just waiting for the report so if we do get update
on next meeting we should be up there for this for next meeting what about those outstanding
one and that's the standard protocol I assume but can you make a note on this book please
thank you can I ask the members of the committee are copied into the correspondence so that
we can so that the officers can understand how keen we are to see the the report that
they said that they're going to bring back what now with item 4.1 which is feedback from
the TSCA resident I just want to check somebody on online anonymous speaker can you hear me
to online TSCA speaker can you hear me to online yes I can't hear you can you hear me
yeah we just about well then we try to sort out the volume can you speak up again please
can you hear me clearly yes I can hear you can you hear me
can you hear me and we'll see on the left
as Sam Peter fantastic okay what I will do I'll take the hear from the anonymous online
person first then I'll come to you guys I would give each person a three minutes to
hear your view then we'll be questioning you guys for certain amount minutes and please
want to speak clearly and on my direction so everyone here so can I call on to the person
online you got three minutes to give you a view about TSCA over to you thank you very
much yeah thank you very much thanks a lot for the opportunity to speak here as well I
can be very brief about this right I think quite frankly what's going on at THCH is nothing
short of scandalous the service I've been living here for three years I'm a leaseholder
with THC's I cannot characterize a single part of the operation of that housing association
as being near functional to the level that it should work right and that ranges from
all areas starting with repairs proactive reactive they're not done to the right level
they're often not done at all administration is a shambles service charge refunds are
not being paid money is being withhold but held you know everything needs to be chased
up communications are very poor anything that's written is full of typos it's complete lack
of attention to detail people are being addressed by the wrong names and written communications
again very shocking this all happens I should stress that under the complete visibility
of senior management as well as the board there are aware of that in return residents
are being treated with what I feel is the utmost contempt and take an advantage of the
fact that they basically have no redress and can't just pyre THC because they're locked
in by by their leases and tenancy agreements and some of the people that are being taken
advantage of are some of the most vulnerable members of society right and I am I'm convinced
that management at th days are aware of that and are taking advantage of that right I have
a long list of evidence that I could provide you know as house systemic that problem is
you know I would invite everyone to have a look at the Google reviews as well as the
glass door reviews of that place it is quite shocking right so I'm certainly not alone
in this assessment but yeah I mean I think I'll close it here because I was given three
minutes and you know if you have any questions then of course I'm more than happy to provide
details on you know my experience with this.
Okay.
I'm going to hear from all the residents then we'll do the questioning so can I have
the next question speaker please.
Thank you.
I'm at least older for THC eight and the complaint is THC and giving no service nothing at all
repair is double local there's no there's no repair people are dying last year someone
died in Voloskey house you know number seven because of the failure and no one doing nothing
about it and this week it's been today's three weeks of free flats in Voloskey house they
will rule up the fees still nothing's going on they can do nothing they don't want to
listen to you don't want to hear you they ignore you people are dying I mean I got report
a civilian report with 119 defaults in Voloskey house has an embarrassment give the report
of the failure still they're not doing nothing I mean when I when when it's cancer going
to take action to one more body to pile up in people's room people are dying and no one
really do nothing about it THC should be out of this door and the board their management
districts should be kicked out from the hundreds you know they shouldn't be in housing I mean
how many bodies you want to be piled up in THC residents you know people are fed up kids
can't go to school because they can't watch the clothes because they can't even cook in
the kitchen because they can't eat the kitchen there's a market with food even the younger
generation are suffering and why isn't tick council getting involved environmental protection
service to go in the put notice on the building there should be a noticing the building because
it's not a Voloskey house is not safe for anyone to live in there and still no one's
does nothing about it might email me sending to the cancerless someone is a no one does
nothing about it thanks to mark an asthma a knowledge law stuff asthma knows what happening
December with all the residents but why is there no one from the even your council officers
our board members in THC why are they doing nothing why is there no one getting involved
and the second thing is um is council taking stock back in house or not can you clarify
that something so and when are you going to take action you know everyone's quiet people
are dying kids can't go to school these are young generation why is everyone quiet service
right there's not even a single service cleaning repair nothing people are paying I mean service
are three grand four grand five grand for what for nothing you can't go to the office but
the office always close can I even if they don't want to talk to you so I mean they look
down on residence you know we're human beings so I mean we're human beings not in animals
so when are you guys going to take action we want to hear today that can't go take some
action against THC because we had enough because I'm going to see no more bodies piling
up until I'm this you know and this is not a job you know this is really not a job
Council's been in power for what two years now so I mean you can work this course by
we'll give like labor as fire independent conservative work together and get rid of
them it's our home it's our homeless it's a very diverse community we all live together
but why you guys keep ignoring it thing you go always fight each other you fight a labor
party find this by eleven find why what can you not get together and kick them out seriously
kick them out so don't ignore us we want some answers today before we leave please become
the joke thank you you have your say can I just so I'm going to come down in a perhaps
a completely different tact and that is about obviously what's happened to us with regard
to the now fouled merger so for those of you who I don't know my name is Anne and I live
on the nerve restate in Bethville Green and I lived there with my life at this time twenty
five years ago via the housing choice process many residents and I were part of a steering
group that after many many meetings and lots of arguments along the way led to THH being
created now we fast forward now to March last year we found out by the internet and of course
not THH because they don't know how to communicate with us that the regulator had finally confirmed
what we residents have known for a very long while i.e. that the organization was deemed
not fit for person and then it had to be grand downgraded the next we heard from THH was
when it announced that the only way forward was for its homes to transfer to another landlord
and ignoring all the protests from its residents in December 23 the further announced that we
would be merging with pop lahaka as we all know after four months of absolutely no information
whatsoever coming from a landlord we then hear that they pulled out of the merger talks and given
no reason why and despite that we now have because of the new regulations it's got this
transparency influence and accountability standard to date neither THH nor the regulator have been
pulled out of the true reasons behind the decision why this merger is not going to happen and thus
we only have THH is patronizing quote that doing so was in residents best interests none of us
would believe that anyone know who it is present someone have any interest in us whatsoever
i think from for us now we now find ourselves in a far worse situation than we were when the
judgment was made many of the then permanent staff have gone and jumped ship and have been
replaced by temporary ones but while staff at the bottom have gone the management and board are
almost still the same so no improvement while it's true that 25 years ago believe it or not
we didn't get to choose who our landlord would be residents were given the opportunity to vote
a transfer to THH based on the promises of massive improvements both in services and our homes
regardless who owns the properties we live in they are our homes that are being messed about
with as such we consider we now deserve the right to again choose who our next landlord will be
but we should have a choice of more than one and they should be locally based and have local
housing services what we used to what we needed and i think gas has already referred to it and
others what we need if nothing else from this committee tonight is confirmation of where it stands
with regard to taking THH back in house because there's still a lot of people that feel that is
possible and we don't know what goes on there and i've lost what i'm concerned and that one of the
other things we'd want as we said with what locally based providers will be even if it means
you as a council making representations to the whatever it is department have lived enough
and the regulator on Abihav as my federal residents hopefully will be outlining yeah i've
just very quick issues repairs and service i've decided to focus on external repairs alone
so you will see that what i've been actually dishing out is some photos of what it's like to
live on my estate at the moment which is a manoeuvre estate and as you can see that this is the tip
of the iceberg when it comes to disrepair is community repairs and we have to currently
enjoy that so hopefully you're going to look at these and if nothing else someone someone somewhere
as need to come in and that's gaz is saying we need help we can't you can't just leave us alone
because you know we're not council but these are the repairs that we need to make yourself
your time is way out so we need to give you others opportunity thank you
can i have a jacket to speak please hi good evening everyone thank you for having us here
my name is Jack here i'm a resident of Charles Dickens house okay
so from the start from the very beginning while i was bidding for this property
THCH misled me and other residents into bidding for this property which we cannot afford to pay for
because we have a service charge heating and rent service charge and heating so the heating element
was not advertised when i was bidding for this property so me and my husband bid for the property
and we were offered the property when i went to sign my contract that's when i see the hidden charges
of the heating heating charge i tried to challenge that on the spot but this was my last property
so it was take it or leave it and i had to take it i had no other choice because i just had a baby
a six-week-old baby anyway so i had to take here i tried to fight this through legal aid but
covid came and then everyone everything went down the drain but where so this is a heating charge
last year the charge was 88 pound a week every single tenant had to pay for this heating 88 pound
a week 4,586 pound a year just for heating cost and i've been asking i've been requesting for
invoices from them is for the sixth time THCH have failed to provide me with invoices every single
time they give me an invoice you see the corrupting there's no file there's no attachment and for the
last time they send me it needs a password and i'm trying to chase up with emails email after email
email after getting no response and the worst thing is i have been charged twice one from my energy
supplier i'm from THCH so i've been paying for the hot water and heating through THCH but i've
been getting charged for my energy supplier for hot water so i've been trying to chase this up why
i'm paying two lots of charges for the same service THCH obviously they've been ignoring my emails
back and forth back and forth so for two years i've been going in a cycle trying to find out why
i'm paying for uh paying my energy supplier for the same service that i'm paying my landlord
and then i had to commission an investigation get an independent electrician to come and investigate
why i'm paying two charges after his investigation he found that from the start of my tenancy
THCH has never been providing me with hot water so all along i've been paying them as well as my
energy supplier and then the same electrician my other residents got the same electrician to verify
you know their charges some of the household they your hot water and heating is not provided
by THCH but everyone's been paying all along and they've been charging us all those years from the
start of our tenancy for service that they never ever provided us we've never we our CCTV hasn't
been working since god knows four five years now we we were still paying for CCTV we've never had
cleaning cleaning was almost non-existent but yet we were paying for the service we had no service
from THCH i mean i'm just i don't know what to say just so angry so frustrated because we are
paying for services that were never provided to us and why do we have to keep uh chasing chasing
emailing mendi i tried to do a first stage stage one complaint regarding one of my uh the misleading
she refused to take it as stage one complaint she refused to take that stage one complaint
they have no explanation of why they misled me all they were saying in the beginning is sorry
they're gonna change this sorry doesn't change anything because now they have imposed this
upon all the residents 88 pound a week who pays that a week for heating i don't think anyone does
thank you thank you thank you we had so and we want answers saying like that and we want answers
what we want answers to that before we don't it's just a doggy
it's a motion that's it can it come along? of course in my near um actually i hate you
i'm a manager for um one of the properties at foli house in THCH my mum's the lease holder she's
a licensed holder and we manage a property of uh one of our six private tenants and they've been
suffering quite a lot um i'm sharing their interest and also the lease holder i was speaking on behalf
of my mother she can't speak english but you can imagine a diverse group of of people that
live in THCH who don't have the confidence of speaking to the THCH operators they rely on the
siblings or the daughters and son to phone them up and you can imagine the manner of stress that
we all have to go through with the operators explaining the situation it's a vicious circle
going talking about the repairs they don't know what they say we don't report this to us
oh okay we were gonna sort it out then they close it suddenly they don't even tell us they closed it
they say that they sent out a repairer the repairer didn't come out and certain things like what
offers me is like certain things like we're paying for service charges it's communal charges for
electricity the electricity doesn't come on at night it comes on during the day and these
big things been going on reporting on my emails i see been reporting this since 2008 and they still
haven't dealt with it you know and and they keep i keep saying what what i haven't they say what
have any dealt with it it's been going into 2008 they say well we sent contractors out as can i
see the proof that the contractors are not can i see the invoices can i see the receipts they say
we're not like to send these kind of things so they they covering up a lot of stuff that's been
going on but i want to go on to about the i know a lot of being mentioned about the lack of repairs
i think that he see i'm sorry the council can involve themselves from the environmental health
services to watch over any any protected issues that residents are having that passing beyond this
unreasonable timeframe that they should intervene and see oversee the sides of what's going on
you know there's there's they go they hide behind these birdings of uninhabitable and in
inhabitable situations they say well it is habitable situations they're playing around with these
terms that ordinary residents don't know about these legal terms do you understand where realistically
in real terms this is not a place you can live where you've got liquor in through your kitchen
for more than two years and the same we can't resolve it because the tenant upstairs not opening
the doors and blah blah blah when they're now going to speak to the resident upstairs
they said so we've been allowing them they can't find the problem well they can't find the problem
they just don't want to deal with it they keep sending different contractors out
contractors don't turn up and then you got these issues with residents having a conflict amongst
each other's because they're blaming them they're blaming us for it they're blaming it to somebody
else and it's again it's there's no transparency around what's going on um i want to say that look
the council can write to the government and ask them to write off their debts you know they should
be asking for those kind of funding supports and if there is a merger there should be transparency
there is no transparency they didn't even say what's going on they didn't even give a you know what
has happened why did the merger go through there's no nothing in writing this council should be
demanding what has happened and put it in writing their resident's demand you know they have you
know they they have a right to know and i can see a lot of people are stressed this is meant
to help over in this week a lot how many people have been suffering mental health issues because
of the problem that we're having for the last couple of years you know 50 things around us
remember the public can you please refrain from recording any video footage it allowed
from the public thank you
Sam
no Sam Pico am I right yeah ask Sam are you online no she's not she's answer before so Peter is the
Peter Alicia hi thank you first of all for giving me the opportunity to speak at today's
scrutiny meeting I would like to thank Councillor Islam and Councillor Francis
for repeatedly asking for this meeting to happen my name is Peter Mengerink and I'm a resident of
T88 and painter house as a shared owner leaseholder you will have heard many complaints about the
service profession sir of T88 this evening the problems are very much the same for my block
T88 seems incapable of doing the basics let alone deal with the bigger problems
cleaning is pretty much non-existent and when it's done it's only the stairwell that is cleaned
where T88 is responsible for the full common areas unless one complains vigorously these
areas are simply not touched repairs and other complaints take far longer to resolve than
their own policy timescales and often are pushed on to residents as their responsibilities
where the lease or the tenancy agreements would back to differ as a company they are in constant
breeds of contact with us shared owners in paint house my lease states that I have to
contribute one pound out of every 38 spent in my block in reality I've been charged one out of
every 24 and on some services even more as they inexplicably charge these on the number of
bedrooms in our in our flats service charges are far too high for the basing this on my block
even if charged that the correct proportion none of the services that are provided are checked
and signed off to have been provided to feed level we have no idea who our housing officer is
or a housing officer's manager it seems that these people are neither steered to do their jobs
and coined by the amount of people leaving after just a short time neither supported nor
guided by management it is an open secret the top layer of management works from home most of
the weeks how can this be right considering the difficulties uh t8 t8 is in at the moment
apparently there's an improvement plan signed off by the regulator although residents have no
idea what it contains nor the time frame of being able to see these improvements this plan is
in existence already for about a year I can confidently say that people have lost faith and trust in
management and are hereby called on the regulator to step in residents are also disappointed with
the board clearly they have no real oversight on what is happening at t8 t8 and I think they need
to have some kind of open letter for residents where they set out how we can expect improvements
they also need to give clarity on why the merger failed after approval
I call on Councillor Hammingrauman who's on the board to relay this message to the board
the fact that the proposed and accepted merger with Poplar Haka suddenly ended without any
explanation to residents means residents will have to suffer longer before we can finally
receive services to these in standard what will now be the next step will we merge with a giant
landlord with no understanding of the local area and its people
many residents want to move back to the council and it would be interesting to hear the council's
position I myself am ambivalent about this for the moment what I want is for any party
interested to take over t8 t8 to engage with the residents as to their plans and assurances
so that we as residents can make an informed choice the choice needs to be ours day but just
the time and so on. Thank you.
Thank you to the resident of THCH for the overview I think it was useful to get
get a sense of understanding from your residents and your view and we would be asking my fellow
colleagues after a good question in terms of before moving to question I'd like to remind
questioners to please keep your questions and breathe as possible and concise and a point
I'd like also to give you many people as possible many questions to ask them if I feel
question taking too long I'll ask you to conclude on summary any members do any members have a
question please? So first one would be James, Mark, Mustard, Asma,
so far okay James, far away please. Thank you all for your contributions I mean that was really
useful and interesting I mean in my ward I do have one block of 20 and which chimes a lot with what
you're saying so I can imagine what it's like for councillors and people living on estates which
much larger and Peter the last point that you made was one the one that was sort of I was thinking
about while listening to you all speaking that was about the possibility of the council and perhaps
taking on THCH, THCH is obviously failing so I was wondering if you or any of the other campaigners
or residents had had any conversations with the council about what that would look like what
you would like to see what the what the benefits would be of that and maybe if you could articulate
now why you think it would be useful to have a local oversight if town its community housing is
to become part of another housing association but that's that's addressed it to you Peter because
you've raised it but anyone else wants to come in on that happy welcome thank you.
Mark please. Okay thank you for that everybody and I think like that is a small tip of the iceberg
for what thousands of tenants and residents of THCH are experiencing I only actually have two
tenants of THCH in my ward in bow east but both of them have complaints about the organisation
and obviously other people come to me so that tip of the iceberg is why we've been arguing for
residents to be given a chance to come speak to the committee and in fact to speak at the council
meeting last September as well which was was also denied so this experience is exactly the
reason why THCH and the other housing associations that were set up were set up with a golden share
which the council retained up until the point that the government forced the council to relinquish
that golden share in THCH at least a few years ago so we could have done something about it and
now we're in a much less strong position to do something about it but I believe that we're in
a position to do something about it so I would like to ask the residents if you haven't heard yet
of anything that the council has done on your behalf to make representations to improve the service
or to get greater accountability or better value for money would you like to see the mayor of
Tower Hamlet take this issue up directly with the housing minister and the regulator.
Excuse me please audience, please, thank you can you answer James question please.
Yes I might have forgotten part of what you said but basically we as campaigns have had no
conversations about Tower Hamlet's taking back control we I'm a little bit disappointed with the
council to be fair with regards to you know the help they've provided residents so far I am aware
that the mayor has sent a letter to the regulator about the merger but that's just about it you
know the complaints we have talked about these complaints are ongoing and have been going on for
years many of the residents have similar problems in similar blocks and we personally I had a
meeting with the mayor in July last year and we sent a letter a long long letter about many of
the problems to all the councilors and we've not had a response we had one response I think
from a council if I remember rightly so we personally you know I feel deflated with it all
so and I'm ambivalent as well with the council taking it back in in stock right because
I want assurances first I want to have conversations that I know what will happen for us and you know
kind of guaranteeing our long-term residency basically I don't know if anybody wants to add to anything
yep so to answer your question really you I mean you'll all recall that there were two
motions that went through some council committee somewhere where the promise was that
and one of them the mayor literally stood up and said you know I'm we are not taking you back in
house as much as I'd like to but I'll do x y and z and even though we can't do that what we're
going to do is make sure we help you through the transition to this merger and all that sort of
stuff and from a my point of view that was the last time we ever heard anything about it until
today in some respects and you know Mark and that will know that I ran it off at the last meeting
about what would be the purpose of us coming to tell you if you can't do anything for us
but at the time obviously we were heading towards papalapa so what was the point but now we're
not going whoever we're going to get what we need is used to stand up and and if you recognize that
we do need this help regardless and and as we've already said it needs to be started using your
voice as a council and collectively and not you know being party politics in all of this
of going to the likes of Michael Gove and going to like to this regulator who appears to be you
know the ones that make and all the decisions around here and tell them you know what as we've
said what what's gone on why because it's just totally unfair they just let us stand a garden
path just to stop and now what's going to happen we're going to end up with probably some other
big organization and are they going to force us into that like they're forces in to in some
respects going to papalapa because as you know there was a big petition and there was objections
that were totally ignored by everyone on my ad but I don't think we got a response from the
mayor to add letter and the fact will also be is that the regulator came in and said just at the
time sorry we can't help you we can't get involved in the process and they come on you know we all
know that not to be true they've got a lot more regulations and powers these days so how are they
going to do that and you know if they're sorry one more point if they came in today and THH they
would have been looking at their consumer standards as well so we had none of that before and because
of that you know we've just gained a rubbish service rubbish services thank thank you for your
view sorry we need to move on can I have some uh to put
yeah can I have your view please yes yeah of course um yeah I mean it has
you know mostly directed to the second part of the question I would ask and really echoes
some of the things that I've been mentioned by um the other residents I think it is important
to highlight that there is a body here whose job it is to ensure these standards are being met
and systemic failure of those standards is investigated and enforced and that is the regulator
of social housing right it is just very true with that on this occasion the regulator is not doing
its job right so you know what the council could do right is indeed apply pressure to the regulator
because in other instances like that where clear systemic failure like this has happened the
regulator has taken action right um you know it's not that there isn't anything that
couldn't that there is nothing that could be done it just isn't being done right and the regulator
is aware of this right um I personally have raised a complaint um with the regulator directly
um about the systemic failure and as I mentioned in my um testimony earlier I alone um in enough
possession to characterize this failure as well as the senior management involvement in this
as systemic and have handed this over to the regulator but the regulator hasn't done anything
thank you thank you for your uh concern and we're taking on notes uh so we uh we have a question
coming up as soon. Next online is mr. Ahmed please. Yeah thank you chair and thank you for coming
forward uh I acorn with Councillor Mark Francis I would say what we have heard is tip of diaspora
indeed and obviously all of us are eager to find out in this situation what the council can do
in terms of putting pressure on the regulators or the ombudsman or and the willingness of the
council but before we're going to do so we have lead member I hope we'll have the answer
to these questions. Can I just ask you to share if possible some experiences of people who
approached the ombudsman and the regulator and what kind of difficulties they have faced in terms of
the grievances being addressed thank you. Yes is yes mr you said regarding ombudsman ombudsman
there's a funding on ombudsman as a report I passed it on to a poll it's really bad we're going to
make sure it's and now I think it's canceling doing nothing you were a board member for CHH
you were a board member for CHH you should know more so I don't know some why you're telling us
because you should know more. I'm having a digger but you should know more and you had a meeting
with us residents and you clearly said I ain't got time to go to any board member and you are
sitting here and lecturing us what the ombudsman we came to you resident came to you
to what he said and now you're smiling and doing nothing I mean it's this is a joke this is that
this is why we're here because no one in the council done nothing we came to you people of
your consider voted for you for CHH and you haven't got time to go to a meeting board member meeting
member of public can you not make a noise please you're here to listen but please be quiet
I'm gonna say it last time because when I hear everything recorded yeah thank you really appreciate
if you do so can I just say can I rectify moustache is not a board member he's declaring
so he's not a board member so please do not speak yeah if you're going to interrupt the meeting
I'm going to ask you to leave can I make myself clear thank you
any recently you've been from board I've been a board member for a long time we have a meeting
we did you know my client just tell me what's that okay thank you very much for your
we took that off with the CHH hey I'm not cutting off you're accusing a member please good
no but that's what we hear no one listen to us and now he's telling me what the issue is so
I'm telling him this no no I told him before when he was a board member I'm telling this you now
as well so how can you not say you don't know about it can I stick to your point to hear what
we need to hear no one dragging on first please no one listen to us we frustrated you know we are
frustrate tenants and residents are frustrated of terrorists yeah if you think I'm having a digger
I'm not it's the truth the truth is you were a board member we came to you you clearly said to
us residents that I haven't got time to go to a board member board meeting if you haven't got
time why you're a board member and now you're telling me what's the report from the ombudsman
we gave you the report from the ombudsman we heard thank you we just need to move on okay
what's that do you want to reply to yeah just I appreciate your feelings thank you very much
for that but what I'm saying say I'm not asking for the report from the ombudsman what I said was
if you could share experience of the people what difficulty they have found so that's two different
things but it's it's okay I'm not ready to dwell on that thank you so much for your comment that's
okay
Asma please thank you thank you chair so thank you to everyone that's come forward and contribute
towards understanding for the committee at least I think as you know I've heard most of
them I've been working with you over the last two years and just to say chair that actually
there are loads of people out in in the borough that aren't here tonight they aren't speaking
who have their experiences and even in the public gallery there are loads of THCH residents that
actually also have had slightly different and had their own experience of the poor service
with THCH and that needs to be acknowledged regarding my questions so like I'm happy for anyone to
take this we as you understand like we do have issues with legislation as to how much the council
can and can't do clearly from what I can hear from all of you is you'd like transparency about
how we are the bridge between the landlord the social landlord and yourself so be able to speak
on your behalf and be able to put pressure on so one first question is is this something that's
going to be very helpful to have your mayor to have all your councillors because to be honest
chair like you might not have any THCH stock in your ward as a councillor but they should not be
clearly they should not be happening under our watch any of our watches and it needs to now be
escalated like Councillor Francis said making sure that the mayor is speaking to the housing minister
the government and be able to see where we can put our experience forward on behalf of the
residents so transparency about what is happening what the mayor is doing what our councillors are
doing making sure that is this also helpful to make sure this committee is also bringing in
the officers of THCH and how you would like us to keep using this platform this committee to
make sure that one we're pointing out what's going on in your experiences but actually be also
be holding like keeping a track of performance and how we're improving the situation because one of
the problems that as you've seen we've had is being able to bring these officers as a committee
be able to agree that officers do need to come because until there is a merger they are legally
the landlord and they do need to answer some of the poor services so like I'd like to talk
about solutions like I'll put three down on the table if there's any more please and if you think
the ones that I've mentioned are helpful anybody want to say it on the fee because I'm going to go
to the one man thank you see we want everyone to work together for the residents of Tallahambas
from both parties or these three parties everyone get together and sort this problem out
I'm not having to get bigger everyone else there was a lot of wrongdoings from the council on both
sides but I'm saying get together with the residents and let's sort this problem out for
the residents of THH because we want THH out we want the problem we saw before more bodies piled
up you know we want to work together and we've been asking that from day one but everyone's been
ignoring us you know so we I'm telling this now everyone needs to get together leave the
difference behind and work together for the rest of the people of THH. Thank you thank you thank you
your point taken by our fellow members and I'm going to go to last the online anonymous
you raise his hands up so please I think you know I can address some of the points that have come up
right yes what could be done until the solution I think it is it goes back to what I said earlier
right I mean it is the regulator's job to make sure this place works right if the place doesn't
work then the regulator needs to take take action this is why the regulator is there
this is why tax money is being spent on operating this regulator right the regulator is aware of
this the regulator is not doing anything the regulator has been doing something in other cases so what
people in this room as well as the mayor as well as the department of living up and housing could do
is to ensure that the regulator does that right it's it's really not that difficult right and if
the regulator finds surely if they were to investigate I'm under no illusion that they would find that
the chart management cannot stay there I would go as far as saying that the current management
should not be able to operate any housing services anymore right um you know I'm not sure what kind
of powers the regulator has in this regard but that's probably what they would find and then
it is up to them to come up with a solution as to what happens with how with this failed housing
association be adept right off with new management be it a forced merger with someone else whatever
the merger that was proposed clearly was never meant um to even go through it was just smoke and
mirror tactics um to uh maintain the position of senior management as evidenced by the fact that
when the merger was proposed the current CEO put herself forward as the deputy CEO of the
merged housing association that housing association that she has just managed into failure
thank you thank you for your uh so I would like to thank you for coming over uh and here give you
a view uh my fellow members officers taking their notes all literally so we run out of time
sorry we will do over exiting the time we will write to you of the outcome if you if we feel like
it's a committee that we need to bring TACH we invite them as well because this is a serious
issue we'll take uh and we'll come back to you on this uh thank you for coming over uh and take
your time and thank you you may stay on a gallery or you may wish to leave this up to you thank you
can I can I just say something chair that's okay so as far as response is back so obviously
these residents have put themselves forward to tell us about their experience yes as a committee
we're going to hopefully look at bringing TACH officers in and that's one scoping exercise that
we'll be doing but there's other things that have been raised so um as a committee as a chair can
you at least commit to the fact that you're able I know the lead member has sat then listened to
all of this but there is also a response from the executive of this council and um the corporate
director for housing as well be able to at least give some reassurance that they've listened to this
and that they're able to find ways of where they can maybe fit in to help um alleviate some of the
problems that they're going for yeah but that's something we should as a committee that's something
we should be suggesting today so let let them go we can if you need to talk about we talk about
the AOB but let the resident go now thank you
yeah chair I do think those things are rather
so Mark thank you chair I do think things are rather left hanging in the air a bit at the moment
and and residents and others and others might might benefit from having a greater degree of
certainty so the lead members here think he's just coming to his seat I don't know if they
and the director if they want to say anything about this now I think you know you've suggested
that there might be a letter that goes to TACH as I understand it that's one way um you know
personally I think the time for a letter was about a year ago I think like there's time for more
uh a kind of forceful stronger action at this stage but I don't know if you want to
give the lead member an opportunity to say something now
I am happy to it's up to you choices you if you want to but what I would say go go
let's order it can be brief I'll be very brief thank you chair yourself please
yeah counselor could be our maid cabinet member including housing amongst other things
so just to firstly start off some of the residents who are here and who presented did have a meeting
with the mayor specifically firstly around Charles Dickens house and the repair issues
around that block which also included a wider discussion around how the RP provided its services
as a whole secondly the mayor has met with residents I myself have met with residents as well
and have initiated meetings with TACH senior management in order to deal with service charges
as well as repairs and another a number of other issues including security CCTV so on so forth
in addition to that the mayor has written to the regulator
asking for residents to be informed of the merger and for the merger to be kept as local as possible
in addition to this we had a meeting set up with residents for the 16th of july however
the merger that was taking place and the subsequent
stop of the merger came across as a strong surprise to both the parties I understand I have had a
meeting with poplar harker in relation to that and they have not received clear directions as
far as I understand why the merger fell through other than to report that it was initiated by
the regulators I think Andrea is here so I'm not sure how much detail I can disclose
within that meeting because some of it is sort of sensitive to the organization but Andrea can
elaborate to what extent on a personal level myself and the mayor categorically do support
smaller localized housing associations we're not particularly in favor of the g15 coming in and
taking over however as a responsible council we have to work with any landlords that are there
so that's the position of the mayor and myself in relation to that thank you
Kabir for updates Andrea do you have any updates at all on this even
obviously I'm in a very difficult position I'm here as the chair of the housing forum but I work for
poplar harker very clearly with my poplar harker hat on what I would say is that I can't speak
for THCH what I can speak from poplar harker's point of view is we still love the view that this
would be the best for residents we could hit the ground running we know the stock we know the
community very well and we are still very keen for this merger to happen if we can get all the
mergers meeting with THH on the 16th of July meeting with the THH THCH management not residents about
things that Andrea is just alluded to just the merger and how that could happen is there
anything that could be done to move that forward so that's the earliest possible date but that's
where THH TH management and when the merger was made public the mayor did write a letter to the
regulator asking for residents to be at heart of everything to be kept informed and also for as
much as possible for the new provider to be from within the borough or you know have a local
have a local presence and he also met with THH senior management as well
prior to prior to the merger being announced just one other area that just one other area
that needs covering is the insourcing as such or the THCH coming in-house I believe in full council
I gave a full response in relation to that previously but one of the primary areas here
is that the level of debt that is currently with THCH are one five one the previous one five one
officer categorically sort of stated that it's not a level of debt that the council can take on
directly that's one of the reasons but there's also other regulatory reasons why we wouldn't be
able to directly muscle in and take those assets back into the council that's not good to please
yeah okay so one of the actions for this committee will be like if we can be told about what
communication so obviously the residents are saying they don't know what's what's happening and if
like the men the lead member and our officers are doing something on their behalf and intervening
so it would be good if there's a log of all those actions so one that is here for this committee so
when we look at improvement plans and we look at how things are going it helps us to be able to
take that into account but also if there's anything missing it can be suggested in this committee
so we should be able to have that information and obviously it is it's better for the mayor
for residents to know how he's fighting on their behalf
so this committee can we agree to certain point that what actions the mayor is taking since the
TSCH the mayor has collapsed time being found out where we are and if you have to may I should
ask for one to spend to see what they're doing about it that's one of the action I'll say suggest
any suggestion from on my right at all sorry
suggestion from the left at all or the middle so look this is I don't think anyone even residents
would disagree that this is a really really difficult situation nobody wants to be here
everybody I think wants to try and find a way to to dig the organization and the experiences
that residents are having out of the hole I think my observation would be first of all that the
actions that have been taken so far haven't been haven't been sufficient to apply enough pressure
to make this happen in a reasonable timeframe I don't think a meeting three months after the
collapse of the merger with TSCH's senior management team cuts it for me it might be that that can
deliver an outcome might be not my view very clearly is that the mayor and in fact like take
along the MPs as well should be meeting directly with the minister for housing and say I've got
5,000 tenants 15,000 of my constituents in in Alberta who are having an absolute nightmare with
this organization and we need a more decisive intervention the regulator has already put in
board members one of those is actually left in the meantime one of them still there something
more needs to be done to turn this organization around I've seen the advert the job adverts for
the board members saying you know we're going through a period of transformation I mean
quirky that is an underestimate and a half like this organization needs really experienced people
and people that are prepared to put their shoulder to the wheel to turn it round and I think that
the only way to make that happen is to get that meeting with the minister and the regulator
and get everybody on site I'm happy if if people think that this needs to be done in a cross-party
way to encourage our MPs to encourage Labour's shadow spokesperson in Parliament to be involved
in this but people need to apply some pressure and the person who's got the power to apply that
pressure is the mayor your problem is taken an action book we'll see thank you we need to move on
thank you everyone for no sorry so
no no no you answer you question me excuse me you talk to me you don't talk to the panel
okay okay you had you had your choice you had no you had your chance
okay we given more than requirement was given sorry can you not speak if he's I'll ask you to leave
you're intercepted all the time can can you remove him please he's intercepted so many times
in the meeting you are intercepted you are you are literally disrupting the meeting
no you can't I told you that I said my son before
I'm going to do this to stay please you can stay or we're going to move on to the next item
thank you
you
You
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Should we move on, please?
Yes?
My fellow members.
Next item is a review of the social land performance for quarter three.
So, what's the brief introduction?
I'd now like to welcome Karen Swift, director for house and
Andrea Baker for representing RSL in the entire hundreds.
She's a chair for all the RSL in the entire hundreds.
Karen, can you introduce the item and progress you have made, please?
Who's going to go on this?
That will be me.
Thank you.
I will present the report that we're talking about today.
Just a few updates to begin with.
The measures that we've derived are basically set from the list of
the measures used to assess social landlords by the regulator.
The first submission to the regulator from the RPs will be going to be
published later this year in autumn.
Just to know that the regulator has the power to enforce and us as the
council, we basically maintain the relationship that we have with the
RPs and we basically take the data from them on a quarterly basis.
However, I must stress that we do not have any capacity to sort of
establish anything further than that.
Another update is that THH have now come in house, which means that
they're now listed in the report as Ta'amitz Council, and that will be
the case in future reports also.
Just to go on to the data, decent home standard, non-decency rates
across the borough have gone down since the last two quarters.
One housing riverside, Spitfield, Poplarhaka, Gateway and Providence
Row now meet the decent home standard, making that a total of
five RPs with a non-decency rate of 0%.
There's an improvement from last quarter where only Poplarhaka,
Providence Row and Spitfield had a 0% non-decency rate.
With complaints, Ellen Q, Notting Hill Genesis and Clarion all
achieved under one complaint per hundred properties, and all other
RPs achieved similar figures.
The only outlier to this was Swan, who were the only RP to receive
more than four complaints per hundred properties.
But this was largely due to 29 complaints which were received
for a specific incident which took place in one block of flats
where the lift was out of service.
For repairs, eight of the 12 RPs who submitted data
achieved a repair completion rate of over 90%,
with six of these achieving over 98.8%.
Relent times, Ellen Q has the longest time for both standard
and major work relits.
For major works, this was 361 days, however all other RPs
report an average relit time of under 126 days.
For safety checks, just a note before I get into the numbers,
that although there may be a hundred percent compliance rate,
that doesn't necessarily mean that there's going to be
a hundred percent like sort of certification rate as well.
So just bear that in mind with the figures, however,
they are an improvement from last quarter.
So 10 of the 12 RPs recorded 100% of homes have had all necessary
water checks, five of 12 RPs have reported 100%
of lift checks have been completed, four RPs
have achieved, four other RPs have achieved over 94%.
Nine of 12 RPs succeeded in reaching the goal of 100% completion
for fire safety and all RPs achieved over 93%.
And finally, six RPs reached a 100% compliance
with six others reaching 99% compliance.
And I believe that's for gas safety, if I'm not mistaken.
Thank you.
Is there any questions from anyone?
Sure.
Yeah, thank you for the summary.
I mean, we hear that emotional outburst by the THCH
resident, so did you receive any report?
And so far, consistently, have you analyzed what they have said to us?
Yes, thank you.
Thank you for the summary.
I mean, we hear that emotional outburst by the THCH
resident, so did you receive any report?
And so far, consistently, have you analyzed what they have said to us?
I guess if they have said that they've done all these things
and tick, tick, tick, on the ground up, it looks like not.
So I think my question is, are we holding them up to ask them
to verify what they said to us?
To begin with, the RPs, including THCH,
they have the capacity to sort of include comments,
commentary within the data that they provide us.
So we do allow them that space to tell us if there's anything going on
or if there's particularly low figures on a certain question
that we posted and then they can then explain that to us
and we do chase that up as well.
So in terms of, you know, us asking them what's going on,
we do have that sort of relationship.
However, I think in terms of knuckling down and getting to,
you know, really scrutinize what their performance is saying,
we've left that to the sort of regulator to do that
on a much more sort of rigorous base as, like, as a council,
we don't really have that capacity to, you know, make that sort of,
you know, that sort of challenge to the RP.
Give us up.
Can I respond to it?
Yeah, I think it's quite important now that we do dig up the past
and put a question mark to what they report versus what is the reality.
And my question also to Andrea, I mean, you chair the,
all the forum, right?
Therefore you, I think, I think if you, you might have a responsibility
to also dig at the reality behind the results,
I would assume, would you?
No, we don't have any standing in that way to scrutinize each other's performance.
We do share best practice.
We do talk to each other and there are some subgroups that work,
if someone's doing particularly well on something where we share that.
Ultimately, the responsibility for performance rests with an organisations board.
And I'm sure most.
So Poplar-Harker has got a services committee, which reports directly into the board,
which scrutinizes our performance once a quarter.
And it is the board's responsibility to make sure that A, the data is correct,
and B, that the performance is where it should be.
I'll just add to that as well and say that the regulator will be publishing the sort of data
that they've collected, which is using the same questions that we posted,
the RPs each quarter at the end of autumn this year.
So we'll have an opportunity as the Council to sort of compare notes,
so to speak, and see whether the RPs' data is matching up with the data
that they provide the regulator.
No, I can't get to go to Mark, then I'll come to you.
Mark, Mark.
Thank you. Thanks for pulling together all the data for the support.
So we had a briefing session about a month or so ago,
where we had some reflections with the help for external experts
who have spent quite a bit of time working in the social housing sector.
And one of their reflections to us was around the credibility of the data
that social landlords put into the public domain or even maybe tell themselves,
sometimes, and about how that isn't always accurate.
Can I just check, first of all, this only in relation to quarter three,
so between October through to the end of December last year.
Yeah, that's correct.
Okay. So, Kyrian, who are the biggest landlord in BO,
they have 5,000 homes in total in Tower Hamlets,
and they say that they only have one complaint per hundred homes.
Is that right?
That's correct, yeah.
If that's what the data says.
So if that's an accurate portrayal of the complaints that are raised
by residents in Tower Hamlets alone, as opposed to just bespoke for Tower Hamlets,
that means that almost every single one of the complaints that they received
between October and the end of December came from me on behalf of my constituents.
And much as I have a lot of complaints and I put a lot of complaints in,
I don't believe that that's true.
And that is a really good example, I think, of why the credibility of the data
that's provided to us, by these organisations, is so awry from people's experience.
We've seen it with THCH tonight, we've seen it with numerous others.
Sorry, Spitterfields has an association in the past, some spontaneously have come,
you know, all sorts of people.
So I guess the question for me is, what more can we do to make sure that the
information that we are now publishing, and in some ways, we are authenticating,
we are saying that this data is reliable in some way.
What else can we do to ensure that it's actually accurate?
Ma, thank you for raising.
I also went through these few days ago and as a chair, I'm looking at some of them,
and eventually it's 100% through our common.
You know, I know that sometimes when people ask for repair work and then a home,
maybe they're just going to have to get bread or milk and just misty.
100% is how accuracy.
My question is, is this data?
I can see 100 homes, the 100 councils, 75, one house in 73, people do 44,
80%, 85, 90, but some of them go 100%.
I'm just questioning myself how accuracy is those information.
I understand the concerns with the accuracy of the data,
and it's something that will have somewhat of a chance to sort of review when we talk,
when we look at the data that the RP's provide to their regulator,
but I will stress that on point 10.5 of the report,
it does state that the council has no power to act against any social landlord,
and that sort of includes looking and sort of criticising the data that they provide us,
so it's purely on a trust basis.
I think the question before was about accuracy of the data.
I guess my question is, some of it, I guess maybe it could be accurate because it's statutory,
like gas compliance, and so by legislation they're compelled to keep that percentage.
I guess the question is, what do we do with the data?
We're asked to collect the data, and I guess then it's a question of now that the data has come in,
how do we respond and how we engage with the data,
and where this underperformance, how do we report it to the regulators,
and I think I take it as an example, because some of the data that you see,
say for example it's 100% on gas safety checks, and that could well be true,
but then the resident comes and says, I've got a heating bill of 88 pounds a week,
so I think how do we as a council then, when we have these issues or raised,
how do we engage with the regulators, how do we report it to the regulators,
and how do we ensure that the regulators is then taking action to,
because if the council doesn't have the powers, what action is the count regulators taking
in order to address issues of underperformance?
And we've got to just say previously, we've dealt very much with it on a local level,
so for example the time it's housing forum, when the RPs provided data,
it was actually submitted and overseen by the executives,
and any issues in terms of performance, any peaks, drops were picked up by the executives
and actually followed through with their boards, with their data analysts,
from their own respective organisations.
In terms of obviously, as moving said, going forward with the regulator,
and I've been able to obviously have witnessed to this data and been able to publish it,
it will give us a greater opportunity to also cross-reference the data we've received
with what the regulators also received from going forward.
So I mean, we're hoping that as it's been raised previously throughout the forum,
through this meeting apologies, as council officer, of course, we want accurate data,
we want an honest depiction from the RPs, because we also get complaints
and receive notifications from the tenants' residents within the borough,
as you've seen today from CHCH.
We are actively dealing with these concerns, but the problem we have obviously is in those movies,
moving's eluded to our hands are somewhat tight because obviously we don't regulate them,
so we can only go so far as to kind of request that we have to take it on face value,
but that is accurate to what we can expect from the landlord.
And there is a risk if we accept without questioning,
I think all of us are saying that if the regulator has downgraded THCH,
and yet we accept the results from THCH, there is a risk to the council,
so I think at least you should then work with the regulator and say that you've downgraded THCH,
and why are you accepting these results?
I think there must be a response, quiet acceptance will make all of us at risk.
I think in terms of to proceed, we as a council, for example,
if we were to receive the KPIs on based on performance,
to mitigate going forward, you would be able to obviously carry out spot checks,
be able to cross-reference, and those types of actions can obviously,
as it felt like of a better place, the proof is in the pudding.
Now the problem is because we don't have that ability,
this is where we have to take the data that's submitted to us for face value.
However, that's not to say that we take it in naivety.
We do obviously then look at what we are seeing in terms of, obviously,
from members' surgeries, from even being directly being contacted by residents
to the complaints that are coming through the door.
And as I've said, we do raise these with the landlords,
the executives through over the Thames Housing Forum,
or through members to find out what is actually going on,
because obviously sometimes the data isn't actually matching up
to what we've received or what we're hearing on the ground.
I want to say why don't you share the problem with the regulator,
not saying that both of you have to do it.
You can question the regulator and say, Today we had a session.
And all of them are saying that this is not done.
And yet the social and not say, This is done.
Why don't you, the regulator, go and check it up.
You know, yeah.
Andrea, do you want to come along?
Yeah, so up until April, the regulator really only concentrated on money and governance.
They weren't really, they didn't have a remit around services,
service provision and the performance data behind that.
However, from April, the new consumer standards,
which they will be testing during the in-depth assessment process,
they will have to triangulate what residents are telling them
with the performance data that is being processed.
I think Councillor Francis, to your point around complaints,
up until this point, not all our P's would have registered
a members inquiry as a complaint, even though it raised an issue.
But that... Oh, OK.
OK. Apologies.
Yeah, because with the new House in Ombudsman, which is a new statutory code,
we have to, regardless of the source, register,
everything as a complaint that comes into us as a complaint.
My apologies.
James, you want to say something?
Be brief, please.
Yeah, that's what I wanted to ask.
OK, so quick question is, so the emergency and non-emergency repairs target,
is does that apply for everyone equally the same?
And second, I agree with the data with what's been already said in the committee.
Vacant properties.
So it looks like some of our RSLs are struggling to get re-led really quickly.
Is there not room for us?
Because this, obviously, we want to try and get people as quick as quickly as possible.
Is there a room for our housing department to get in and try and put the support in
or work with RSLs so that we can do that more speedily?
Why isn't there a table for Councillor, Councillor and Mayor's Emmys?
So if we're picking up Emmys for RSLs, which are RSLs are there?
How many are there?
It's a really good way to collect data about what we're getting.
And also a suggestion as well, obviously we'll talk about how else we can best find ways
that data that actually is fit for purpose in order to help.
So we should be finding a way of doing surveying satisfaction level with residents that live
in RSLs.
Because on a yearly basis, it's another context that we're able to then put the whole thing
into a wider picture and see if the data matches what residents are telling us.
James, would you approve?
I had two questions, if that's okay.
One is related to RSLs, Relent Times, similarly.
I think anecdotally, so to handle its council stock, is what it's towards.
It's below average in terms of relapse, which is good.
But of course we want anecdotally, that's not necessarily the case.
Like I certainly think of voids in my ward that have taken longer.
Usually when the tenant has died, I imagine there's accession issues.
So I just wondered if, and there is some mention in the notes of what we're doing to tackle
as to how well it's council housing, what we're doing to tackle the time of relapse,
as much of there's anything else that has been done to turn that around.
The second question is just to ask the cabinet member, Kabir, if you could tell us what you've done
to ask the RSLs, perhaps, obviously you speak to them a lot, go to the relevant forums,
ask for them about the data that they give us and sort of hold their feet to the fire
on getting more data and more accurate data out of them.
Thank you.
I think on the whole, there is a general expectation that as responsible providers,
they provide accurate data clearly where it shows 100%.
You know, we need to scrutinise that.
And when I do have meetings with the relevant RSLs,
then those issues will be raised with them in terms of how they got to 100%,
which is not anything else to give us good practice in the council,
so we can achieve 100% as well.
But, you know, it's to do with, I mean, the way the organisational structures are set up,
it's a self-reporting mechanism, but however, as has been pointed out already,
with it also being reported directly to the regulators,
that gives us a benchmark that we can set the data we're receiving through to HOOF
and the data the regulators are getting.
And if the two don't marry up, then clearly the specific housing associations
have got issues in the correct data hasn't been provided.
Data's one thing, but the other is, what does that data represent?
And that is the impact it has on the residents they're providing in you as well as myself
and every other councillor here and TRA reps and so on and so forth know
that there are huge challenges irrelevant of which housing association of the council it is.
Just a brief follow-up on that, has it been raised at the tail hamblets, housing forum,
and if not, can it be raised at the next opportunity, just to make sure everyone's doing it?
You know, bringing in that we've got these concerns and everyone's reporting accurately.
Thank you, Andrea.
Yeah, so I report back to the forum from this meeting,
and I'm very happy to go back and raise again the worries around the veracity of the data
that's been put forward.
To do with, sorry, to do with asthma as well.
As we're asked about, we let us as well.
Mark, I'll ask you any, give you a question to asthma.
Sorry, so the point I wanted to make was that I think we have to press harder on the veracity of this data.
I don't know, like, what is the best way of doing that?
But I think that some of these are really, really quite questionable and quite obviously questionable as well.
I think, yeah, well beyond us, beyond people being invited to come in here and speak to it,
that I think that we have to test it ourselves and we should be testing it in public as well.
So, for me, like, we're just going to keep on presenting this as if it's real.
Like, because we've been doing this for more than two years now,
and when we've pressed in the past on some of them, like, we don't really get anywhere.
Like, we did with Spittelfield's House in association previously.
I don't know what the solution is.
I don't know what to say, or whether I can say what I think the solution is.
But let me just say this.
On Saturday, in my advice surgery, a tenant came in of Clarion House in and he says,
Mark, you wouldn't believe it. They've been messing me around for 18 months trying to put a window in.
And I was like, That's outrageous. What have you tried to do about it?
I said, I've been backwards and forwards, like, all of that time, like, loads of phone calls.
And he's documented the whole thing. And I was like, Okay, did you make a complaint?
He goes, Yeah, on the 2nd of May, I said I had enough. I called up. I said, I want to make a complaint about this.
They told me at Clarion's contact center, You can't make a complaint.
I said, I want to speak to the manager about why I can't make a complaint.
They said, You can't speak to the manager.
I said, Okay, well, how do I pursue this?
And they go, You can ask to get a call back from a manager within 24 hours to discuss whether you should be allowed to do a complaint.
And he said, You know what? Go on, then I'll take you up on that. Call me back in 24 hours and talk to the manager about it.
To his data, he's still waiting. Yeah, this is how these organizations suppress their being formal complaints.
And, you know, this isn't just an individual experience.
This is a systemic problem in the sector, but it's particularly prevalent amongst the G15 housing associations.
And it's got to stop. And people, including councils, need to stand up against it.
No, sorry, I'm not sorry.
Very quick. I just try to find solution for all of us.
So I think maybe sometimes it's to group, because just now when I hear, I couldn't respond because everybody is emotional.
But I think probably what all of us like residents and these sorts of things, we need to group issues into what is dangerous to the...
You know, the man who thinks someone died, but I don't know, died of what.
So I think we need to group them so that we can pass it on, you know, somehow up the chain.
And then to protect the council, I think you'll have to then go up to the government and say that how many residents is now having this issue,
and nothing has been done by the social housing.
And yet the social housing is reported 100%. I pass it up the chain basically.
I think we need to be aware of what residents are facing, what is dangerous to their lives.
And then say to the government that this is something that is for you to, you know...
And do you want to come back and answer on to this?
I'm just picking up Suzanne's point about sort of trying to find some solutions,
because we've talked about this for a while, about the registered providers, you know, through the data sort of mocking their own homework.
And is there a way in which we could sort of play greater scrutiny and rather than just pour over the data that we've got?
Maybe there's a different lens in which you can look at it.
And I'll come on to that in a minute, but just in terms of the THH voids, I don't have anything to add to what's in the report,
because that's directly come from the people who manage the voids.
But what I would say, and maybe Shannon, it's something that we could ask THH, is that we do very well in terms of preallocating new build,
because obviously we know we've got new build. It's quite different if somebody passes away.
You don't know about that, and then there's other stuff that happens on it.
So it might be worthwhile, but next time is to ask THH to break down the void rate for new build and just ordinary relapse,
because I think you'll find that some of the new build might be pulling up the performance of the relapse.
So I think that's just useful just because it is on council stock, so let's see how that sort of shapes up.
And then just in terms of, I mean, I think your right, Councilor Francis, that when you've had individual registered providers here,
it's a much richer discussion because, you know, you've got them, you've got their data.
And I think the pattern of having individual registered providers here alongside, you know, the general report,
I think that's worked, and I think the committee have sort of really got under the skin of some of the data.
So those spotlight sessions maybe are a way to go forward.
So Andrea mentioned about that in April, there's a new way in which things have been recorded, particularly about complaints.
So maybe we just, the committee just gets the data straight from the regulator, rather than sort of trying to collate it.
So maybe that's, you now start to use data that, obviously, enough data won't be being submitted to the regulator.
So maybe it's about the committee getting the regulator data after, well, maybe after the first quarter,
because that is broader than what it used to be.
And then just finally, I guess it's just a question back to members about, you know, some boards have very high concentrations of registered providers,
of one provider, some boards I know just have to have homes.
And I guess it's just a question for me, curies in terms of whether you meet as board members on a monthly basis
with your largest registered provider, whether you've established that.
And relationship, so that you as a board member, as not necessarily as a member of this committee,
but as a board member with all your postbag spotting trends are able to hold their feet to the fire as a constituency member.
One of the things, sorry, just wanted to add, as a council, we had the Onwardsman visit us and we did promote for residents to contact the Onwardsman,
which includes our own cases as well, and where we failed in our duties, we have to put our hands up and take responsibility and learn from that.
So that might be another avenue as well.
If organizations refuse to take complaints, because it will be logged, by all means, members and committee members,
I would suggest promoting referrals to the Onwardsman, because then there is a formal route where complaints are recorded.
That would be my suggestions around that.
Can you ask me now?
I'll use a question you're asking.
No, no, there is one.
So, Karen, thank you for that.
I understand a bit about Tahams homes, and now that it's coming house, I can see whether, I can see with the strategy,
where we do the work in order to make sure, because we don't want a house to be empty a day and hour longer than it needs to be.
What I was talking about is RSLs.
There is definitely room for improvement for us to support them, because when you think about it, especially the small organizations,
bigger nationally, but smaller entire hamlets, a lot of times they take longer because it's out of the way for them or there's more concentration.
So there is actually benefit in us in order to share resources in order to help support,
escalate that time period between when it's void straight on to back onto let's, because it's our residents that are going to be taken.
So that's a piece of work that I think we can definitely be doing.
Any members want to put a question to the panel? Can you put it in writing, please?
On those topics to the poll, we'll take you from there.
Thank you for coming to these sessions.
I'd like to thank both of you, Karen, they want to move on.
I know we've certainly got to move, and I'm not even going to stay on there as well.
So we certainly want to review customer journey for housing needs, and I welcome COVID for coming to members and Karen and the rest of the team and also the Andrea Baker.
You have five minutes.
I believe that everybody read the presentation, Slack presentation.
So we can skip the presentation.
Please just briefly summarize, because we will read the presentation.
I believe everyone read it.
Yeah.
So that way we can save some time to catch up some time. Thank you.
Over to you.
So Chair, I'll be very, very brief.
The reality of the situation is right now we have a very complex and complicated process in how we approach the customer journey.
And it was my first year as a cabinet member that we looked at the Council having a customer service strategy for the first time.
Now that will flow feeds into Councilwide services, which includes housing, homelessness, temple accommodation, and a whole range of added issues along those lines.
As you can see by various different diagrams, the level of complexities that are involved.
What we essentially want to achieve, and we've already started phase one is already done, and we've got more phases which will be coming up in the short, medium and long term as well.
And some of it will be institutional changes is to drive that change so that the customer, the residents of Tower Hamblets, get a better expediated process where they are respected, they are valued.
Anybody could be made homeless with any situation that occurs.
From losing your job, can't pay the rents, you know, Section 21 notices within private accommodation.
So there's a multitude of reasons that could lead to homelessness and other difficulties.
And what we want to do as a Council is be a responsive Council.
So we've had a look at this, we've collated some data around it, and this is a step in the right direction.
If committee members have other suggestions that will help us along the journey, then, you know, you're more than welcome to put those suggestions forward.
Carranzier will say a few more words, because the team have worked very hard on this, and we wanted to shape the way we deliver services for local residents.
Carranzier? The only thing I would add is that Councillor HOWARD might is correct that it's a very complicated process.
The process maps that are in here are just to illustrate the different handoffs and button changes and processes that are involved in often what might Queen seem to be a very simple task, like making an application for housing.
So the process maps are there really just to illustrate the complexity.
I've set up some improvements that have been made, and also given you some illustrations of how we're making progress, particularly on telephone answering times, and also in terms of addressing the backlog of housing register applications.
And I've set out at the end how we're going to take the phase one forward into a phase two to really consolidate, and particularly some of the ICT improvements and the digital journey,
also improve the face-to-face experience that residents have in the residence hub, because it's not always the resident journey isn't not just a digital one.
So face-to-face remains an option for those in an emergency, particularly, and we need to reduce the touch points in the reception area so that people see the person who can offer them the best advice first.
If you go into a unique to triage, the person offering the first bit of advice is your most experienced nurse, and we don't have that currently, and that's something that we're aiming to move towards, so that the first advice is the best advice that you can get.
And there's more changes that are happening in the face-to-face offer in the residence hub.
A queuing system so that residents know their place in the queue, because often stress levels build up if they don't know when they're going to be seen.
And also staff training to deliver sort of empathic sort of service.
I mean, I often think that staff are seeing 10, 12 people a day, and the complaints can be very complicated, but they have to maintain that empathy for the last person they see as much as the first person they see.
And that's very challenging when the situations they're facing in their hearing can be quite traumatic.
So, you know, some trauma-informed training, how to do with residents in an empathic way, you know, stuff that social workers receive.
So, staff training is really critical to getting that empathic service as well as improving the physical environment, and people knowing where they are in the queue, when they're going to be seen, and the best advice being the first advice they get.
So, the first one for me is from the staff aspect perspective, with everything that's going on right now, things are a little bit up in the air.
How are you able to really capture what settled feel like for officers who then can contribute to what we're trying to do here, what you're trying to do here?
And secondly, from a resident's perspective, when they come to the city mayor or the councilors, they find ways to contact you guys.
It's always about this isn't right, so we need this fix in order to pursue an answer or a solution, but I know sometimes you get the customer satisfaction aspect attached to it when they want to complain, but that's very separate from what they want to see,
but what their barriers are, it's very, because a lot of them, I'm going to tell you now, is they are more free to tell us how officers have treated them, surgery, than they are to sell officers, because they are afraid that actually if they do that, they'll get poor service or they won't get the home, they won't get what they need.
So, how are you able to really capture what the residents want?
I've not heard that.
So, I think the first thing is that as members, we play a pivotal role within the community relevant of political parties, and where we see failings identified, I think it's very important that we raise it one within the formal environment and two with directors of whatever service the council has, so that we can identify the issues.
Now, two, we need to set a culture within the organization that is hospitable, so my professional day job is to work within the substance misuse field, with extremely chaotic individuals at time, with high risk, highly volatile individuals.
So, training plays a great deal in how you handle situations and approaches, where these gaps are needed or identified.
That's where management have to come in and support, and I suppose what Karen's saying is, we put that level of management forward facing so that they can get the best advice and support at the same time.
So, there are configurations that Karen's been working on.
We're all familiar with the complaints and everything else that's happened within housing and so on and so forth.
It was widely publicized as a council from both management, the unions and the staff, we've been working on how we can alleviate that and we're moving on to solutions in order to alleviate that.
There are certain areas of bottlenecking, for example, which creates a pressurized situation.
So, again, in terms of systems, we're looking at how we open that bottleneck up, we spread the work along, we evaluate the size of caseloads and how the staff deliver those quality services.
So, I suppose one is an institutional look at it, the other is an operational look at it, and the third element is to have an empathetic sort of approach to how you deal with it and understand.
Because ultimately, if you don't have that level of understanding and you don't see it from the prism of those who have presented, it's very difficult to have that empathetic approach.
So, Karen has been working with her team along with support from customer service and other departments within the council.
In order not to have this isolated, silo working, you know, corner desktop job, but a more open and embracing approach to dealing with their day to day jobs.
I hope that identifies, Karen, do you want to comment?
Yeah, so, I mean, I do see complaints about people feeling that they've not had the best treatment.
I also see complaints directly to me of people who've had a good experience as well.
It was interesting, it never occurred to me what you said that actually residents complain more openly to members than they would do to us because they're afraid of the consequences.
That's something that I've never heard before, but I take that very seriously.
And that may be, you know, one of the things that drives the MEs that we've got.
So, we're just sort of, we're responding to MEs when actually there's a much more simpler way of actually sort of like dealing with it when it first arises.
So, I'll take that back, but I've never heard of that before, and therefore take it back to the team who's working on the customer journey and think, how can we address that?
How can we, you know, try to put some flesh on that and ask people?
There's lots of people spend time in the residence, so there's lots of opportunities to ask people to fill in a sort of confidential sort of survey that we could repeat and then just see whether some of those barriers to make it happen.
The barriers to making a complaint are all thrown up in those surveys, but I will take that back because I've not heard that before.
So, can I just, can it be possible to give some sort of like a three-defined questionnaire that when you go, we got a lot of people coming in the town hall?
And that way you get proper pictures, if you have people and they leave the questionnaire and put it in boxes where that others can't see.
That way it's anonymous so they can have a feedback as well.
That would be one of the good ideas to get customer feedbacks to how the other end is fitting in ME.
So, my hat is another portfolio holder who also deals with the resident hub as a whole.
We already have that in place for the resident hub and that includes all council services that the resident hub deals with and not specific to housing per se.
But housing is included within the feedback forms that we do have, both sort of on-screen digital and of course you've got the online and so on, so forth versions of that as well.
With housing it's slightly different to just people coming into the resident hub saying I've got a council tax query and they didn't get the right response they needed because with housing somebody's got something that you need.
And you're worried maybe that if you're so desperate to get housing that you want to just make the best impression possible.
But I'll take that away in the survey as well.
Quick, I was just wondering, crisis, the charity for homeless, they are based in commercial streets.
So, I wonder like we talk about solutions that are there any collaborative initiatives with them, not to pass the back to them, but more like how to get them to work with us.
Because they are really experts.
I mean, generally we work with everybody, you may be aware that crisis for Christmas took out the corner hotel, so they spoke to us about that as well.
When they took the corner hotel, just near Ata'ale Park for the Christmas period for the homeless, I myself am very familiar with crisis.
Due to my professional work dealing with them on a regular basis and I'm familiar with some of the senior managers who are involved as well.
So, yeah, we do talk.
Thank you for everybody. Mark, quick, please.
James, I'll give you the map.
Mark, thank you, thank you for this and for the time and thought that it's gone into trying to improve the experience for our constituents that are making an application.
So, you know, in the past, we've received a number of presentations about what's the changes that are going to happen, the changes and how that will improve the service.
And we haven't necessarily seen that, but this at least comes with some performance data, which is the performance data that we've kind of been asking for for a while and received other things.
So, I don't want to just dwell on the past.
I do want to look to the future, but I do think it's important that in getting this situation, getting this service turned around, that there's some honest reflections about it.
And if I look at the one that's on, sorry, page 13 of the individual pack, average days to complete tasks.
So, this time of year ago, it was all being done within, is it 10 days, 20 days?
It was all green, sorry, 20 days.
And then, over the course of the summer and autumn, it all seemed to go quite bad and be turned into taking 100 days.
Have I understood that chart right?
13.
It's on page 13.
It's the one that says online housing register applications average days to complete tasks.
Thank you.
So, there's page 52 of the overall pack.
So, it says that the average number of days is taking us to process and complete tasks since go live.
So, what is the explanation that we have for these, like these generally seeming to take between 50 and 200, well, let's say 100 days to complete these tasks?
So, I'm going to look at my chain who saw, oh, business analyst.
If Shane would be able to come in, he's been doing all of the backlog analysis work, identifying the tasks that are needed to complete an application, looking at historic backlogs, and looking at live applications.
So, Shane, would you be able to answer Council Francis's question.
Good evening. Yes. Thank you, Karen. Good evening, Councillors.
So, one of the key contributors there is we need certain pieces of information from our customers to carry out those tasks.
And we found that there were delays in getting that information and we had to spend more time pursuing the information.
There were multiple chasers to get the information returned.
So, we've since looked at communicating in advance, a timeline of 28 days to respond to requests for information so that we can speed up that processing.
That was a key factor. Does that answer the question.
One other thing I want to add with that is we had a systems problem as well. So, the main system that we operate from and the system where the housing applications and everything went into did not talk to one another.
So, there was a human interface required.
So, we have upgraded that system and we're hoping that will expediate time as well in terms of how it's processed.
But the key thing is delays created for information.
Even as we speak from day one, I wasn't happy with a six month timeline for applications.
We've taken it down to four months. Even for us, that's not good enough. We want to go within two months for applications to happen.
That's the rule of thumb, but where there are mitigating circumstances, it may take slightly longer. But ideally, we want to move towards two months or less in order to process these applications.
Right, which is what it always used to be.
So, it's gone from green. Now, I got a lot of red and orange over the course of 2023.
Am I writing understanding this figure is a snapshot figure. So, these are not new ones that are coming in. This is just at that point of the month.
That was the number that have been outstanding for more than 100 days. That was the number that have been outstanding for more than 200 days.
Shane.
Sorry, could you just devise which chart that is, Councillor? Is it a snapshot that, like, say, for example, the most recent month that we've got here is March 24, it says 76 have been waiting over 200 days to complete the tasks.
So, is that a snapshot or is it the new applications that have come in? I think I'm just so that's so that chart shows the days to complete. So that's for completed tasks in that period.
So 76 tasks in that period took that period of time over 200 days to complete.
The key indicator on that task is, of course, that we are processing a lot more now in volume and percentage within the shorter timeframes.
Okay, my last question. When do you expect that this chart is not going to have oranges on it is just going to have greens on it.
So, there's a lot of extra stuff to clear the backlog. There's different bits of backlog. There's backlog of applications, Shane and I segmented them into backlogs of applications where people have put in a form over a year ago and have not replied to three letters asking them to supply additional information.
Those applications, we would be seeking to cancel those. And if people wish to come with a, if people wish to come back there, we'll reopen them. We've done a lot of cancellation so far.
We've got about 2,000 e-service applications as of today, about 2,000 applications, which weren't e-service ones, which were in the system before the online system allowed them to drop into the back office.
I think Shane and I, we can probably recruit a big about five new officers to clear the backlog and do all the tasks, but we think that for some of the tasks, we may be looking at sort of between six and nine months.
But we're prioritizing them, obviously, the what's the beauty of what's happening now, Shane, is that applications are coming in and those forms are dropping into the back office.
They're not sitting there for double entry. So double entry led to, you know, when we had a surge in applications, double entry led to a massive pressure on the staff to put those information that are coming the system into another system.
That's not happening now. So I think we've got a good chance of being able to turn applications around. We're doing it now in 69 days to our target is 56 days.
But there will be historic backlogs like I mentioned, where people haven't responded to applications. And as Shane said, we, we are now saying you only have 28 days to reply with your extra information. We're switching those off.
I'll take a question, not now. Can you put in writing?
No, I can ask them now. That's all right.
I'll take one question out of three, please, because we are already overdue about 40 minutes.
Okay, I still just to follow up. This is one of my questions, which Councilor Francis asked, but I still don't understand.
Obviously, you're trying to point to trends of on this slide slide 13.
You know, there's some renewal, some growth in the ability to reply to complete tasks in the time.
But I'm still not clear as to what the issue has been to create this failure to complete tasks in a timely manner.
Since last year, since May, June, when we were seeing a backlog, when we're seeing the real increase in delays.
And I think Mark asked this question.
I'm not clear of what the answer was as to whether this is a month by month snapshot or whether it's a cumulative snapshot of all of the tasks that need to be dealt with.
If it was cumulative, it would make more sense. But if it's a month by month, these are all the tasks in the month by month basis, then that is worrying.
Similarly, I wanted to ask on question on 14. Obviously, you're point saying there's a downward trend.
You know, we're dealing with the backlog. We're getting through it, but there's two weeks, the 21st of March and the 29th of April,
which really pulls down the figures. The figure, the backlog seems to be staying around zero percent, maybe up one or two percent.
And it comes down massively in two particular weeks, which then pulls the trend down more significantly, I think.
Can you just say what happened in those two weeks to pull the trends down and whether you were focusing, particularly on the backlog in those weeks and also, or if those two weeks are particularly anomaly.
And if, yeah, those weeks were taken out, are we really seeing the backlog trends stay around zero percent? This is on slide 14.
I'm going to answer that if he can. I mean, I think just in terms of what we're doing now is that we're being so forensic that we're probably telling you about everything, including everything.
You know, so, you know, if there are some things that we're uncovering that their applications that were four years old, they're just being canceled.
So I think we've canceled 2,312. So we're being really thorough so that nobody can ever say in the future, Oh, but what about these ones over here?
So I guess we've just gone so forensic shame that the volumes look enormous, but actually, when you put them into categories, we've got a different approach for each one.
And now that the synchronization between the online form and the back office, I think that's going to really help us to motor, but we still have to acknowledge that applications, we are holding them to applications that need to be somehow resolved.
And we're just being so thorough. The numbers look high, but we've got different strategies for them.
And I'll just ask Shane to answer the sort of the blip in the chart, Shane, where it went down.
Yes, so those are two specific bulk cancellations that you referred to.
So one in March there and one in April. So that's where we did the analysis. We identified those applications that you referred to that had no contact and no information.
And we did bulk cancellations of those. That's what the two blips in the trend are there.
But what we're monitoring, what's really important is that level of change each week to see what's going on.
And we can see that report that every week. And with the recruitment of the backlog team that's in readiness for that. And we will then expect to see the assessments coming down for each of the applications that need the full assessment.
And that's where the real work comes in. And the backlog team will be focused solely on clearing that backlog. We estimate it takes around two hours on average for a full assessment of an application.
And that's what we'll be able to report and show that trend of reducing those applications that need the full assessment.
Thanks. When will the backlog team come in? Because it sounds like we're just sort of removing old assessments by bulk as a way of bringing the backlog down.
So in terms of digging our teeth in, I think we used to have this data over a long time as we get it into the future.
It's very useful data and interesting. So thank you. But yeah, we want to see what impact the backlog team has. So when they come online, that will be useful tonight.
We've got some stuff already that we've sort of labeled as the backlog team who are helping Shane to sort of come off other bits of work to do with that.
So I would say in the matter of week's shame, we should be getting those people in.
Yeah, there's the combination of things for offering over time. We're bringing stuff from custom services and so on. So there's a combination of things to contribute to reducing that backlog.
We're very confident now that we've done the analysis, so we know what the tasks are and what the average time it takes to complete a form.
We have a lot of remote working in this area. I think those that's really critical just in terms of setting out what expectations are as to how we want to, what targets we want to see in terms of applications being properly assessed.
So being really forensic, I think will help us just to better monitor the progress. And these are weekly reports that we get.
Thank you. No, I'm going to conclude. We already gone over session.
I'm putting a question in writing and there's one. Thank you for coming.
Sorry, just before you conclude.
Well, you want to say something?
Yeah, just want to ask the committee. If you do have suggestions on how we can improve the journey, please either contact me or do it through the committee to Karen.
We're more than happy to take, you know, any suggestions that are coming forward as a committee.
I hope the doors will be open. I assume those will reopen for us to get to you guys.
I think if you're coming over, I'll put this in the report. Any questions, Susanna, can you put in writing, please?
And from the left as well. So we are going to be running on time. Thank you for coming over.
So everyone, so if we move into the next item, please, 4.4.
You're happy to leave if you wish to do so. Thank you.
It's not there now that you finish it. It's us.
We're slowly moving into the next item is performance report that we did a scriptly challenge session on.
And do members have any questions on this?
Thank you, Chair. I just say that the report has been attached to the papers and we've developed some recommendations based on the video feed evidence that we had of what seemed to be there.
So just if members would take that as red and if they have anything that they feel was anything has been missed, they can let us know otherwise whether they would like to approve the report or perhaps approve it subject to any amendments suggested today.
Mark. Thank you. Thanks for the work that's gone into this. Mr. Burgess, really appreciate this. And thank you, Chair, for getting the session at which we were able to obtain some expert external expertise to help guide us on how we should be doing this.
So look, as an observation, we've got five recommendations here by my record in three of these recommendations with things that were happening in this committee prior to 2022.
So the committee had training.
The registered providers came along and did the spotlight sessions and the residents were invited to give evidence as well. And we had that on numerous occasions from spitterfield housing tenants and from clarion tenants and others as well.
And finally, like we've had some tenants from THCH. So let's not pretend that this is the emperor's new clothes. Yeah, this is what the committee was doing should have continued to be doing.
And hopefully we'll be doing it in the next session when I will be with you, but someone else will be.
I want to say this, though, like you can't do all of what you want to do and be effective in the number of meetings. Now, I know that we've had this backwards and forwards over the last two years.
Yeah, especially, but nearly two years now. I really, really would encourage us. Like we've had a full meeting tonight. You've had to stop people rightly who've gone on too long.
But we haven't even talked about how hamlets, how hamlets own councils housing performance.
Like we haven't had the report about the major works. We haven't had the lease order stuff that we've been promised as well.
Like we cannot, this committee cannot cover this agenda or all of its responsibilities within the time that is allocated to this.
So as a committee, I would strongly encourage you, we voted on it last time and it didn't quite come off.
But to revisit the point about having more frequent committee meetings so that you can do not just the housing stuff and the homeless and stuff, but all of the other things that this subcommittee is meant to be covering as well.
So if we weren't taken, we raised many times. We had a vote last year as well.
I will show you a little bit more back to the awareness. Please tell me back to the awareness on this.
To see if it is a delegate subject housing. And I do also believe that we don't get everything done in time.
That's probably what other members feel the same as well. Thank you.
Mabu, you want to say?
Oh, just in fact, I think I was at the challenge session and I think just the type of thing my name wasn't added.
So I think just page 1671, if we can just add my name, that I was present there.
Yes, we'll make that correction.
And while you're correcting, I'm not the member for all ONS, when housing.
Yes, yes, I'll correct that as well.
Thanks for everyone coming over and that's it.
Sorry, can I just double check that the challenge session review of performance, is it approved?
Is it approved?
I think that was the decision I was making. Thank you.
Thank you now for the meeting to the end.
[BLANK_AUDIO]
Transcript
good evening everybody welcome to the council chamber for housing scrutiny meeting my
name is Councillor Abdulmanan and I will share in this meeting this meeting will be heard
in person with the housing region script in sub community members along with the key
participant present in the meeting room while others are joining remotely one is one is
sub community members present in the meeting room can vote should the technical error occur
that prevent remote agendas from participating I will decide if and how the meeting should
proceed after taking advice from officers this meeting has been filmed for the council
website for public viewing those participants in the meeting will be included in their
footage I would remind members at the meeting to only speak on my direction and to engage
and speak clearly into the microphone and to ensure that the contribution can be properly
recorded those the physical attendant please use the microphone and must attend them up
when not speaking please have your mobile and silence virtual participant keep microphone
on mute except one speaking one one the exception of scrutiny member members 1v10 on your video
camera when speaking to say bandwidth the screen members are in case in regards to
keep the camera turned on and if members and officer joining remotely which to speak use
the race race had race hand function on the computer please do not use the remote meeting
chart function it will not be seen for those who are in the physical meeting so let's
say if you moving on any apology from anyone please no chair I've not received any apologies
Councillor CIPE is trying his best to join us in the late meeting and chair I've just
been informed that Councillor KABIRA will be here late but he will be here for his items
thank you chair chair chair sorry just informing Karen's also going to be late for her presentation
as well so she'll be attending for her presentation section as well thank you thank you so Karen
will be coming late as well okay members can you reduce yourself and declare new interest
please I'll staff on my right staff from the thank you chair Councillor CIPE and with
the white chapel ward and decorations I'm at Lee's hold tower in the homes well tower
I'm not having this council Councillor MOUSAGA that I've been west and I'll dip you thank
you I myself I will introduce I will not do the declare on this council ask my slum for
Weaver's ward and I don't have anything to declare I'm Councillor James King from
Limehouse some of the town let's cancel Lee's hold up Councillor MARF Frances from Buries
the ward no declaration so I'm going to introduce yourself hi I'm up and I'm a tenant
co-op tea and no no declaration of interest hi I'm Susanna I'm a resident representative
on from a lease holder I'm a lease holder of Tower Hamlet's homes
next item on the meeting is to prove the previous meeting can somebody second it please
okay slowly moving to third I was standing action the outstanding log has been
the papers have been submitted and I have no additions that have occurred since those
papers have been submitted so I would like to take those as read
you say something yes please so these are just as reported that there hasn't been responses
on them but can we just I don't know what's the way to express our desire that we do get
responses on them for in time for the next meeting do we need to resolve something yeah
because it just it feels like particularly in relation to the resident engagement issue
for what was Tower Hamlet's homes that that's not something it's not a can that should just
be repeatedly kicked down the road every every meeting like should we be right into them
say to say that we expect that report for the next meeting and they can ask them to obviously
snow as you said I'm standing dog it's just waiting for the report so if we do get update
on next meeting we should be up there for this for next meeting what about those outstanding
one and that's the standard protocol I assume but can you make a note on this book please
thank you can I ask the members of the committee are copied into the correspondence so that
we can so that the officers can understand how keen we are to see the the report that
they said that they're going to bring back what now with item 4.1 which is feedback from
the TSCA resident I just want to check somebody on online anonymous speaker can you hear me
to online TSCA speaker can you hear me to online yes I can't hear you can you hear me
yeah we just about well then we try to sort out the volume can you speak up again please
can you hear me clearly yes I can hear you can you hear me
can you hear me and we'll see on the left
as Sam Peter fantastic okay what I will do I'll take the hear from the anonymous online
person first then I'll come to you guys I would give each person a three minutes to
hear your view then we'll be questioning you guys for certain amount minutes and please
want to speak clearly and on my direction so everyone here so can I call on to the person
online you got three minutes to give you a view about TSCA over to you thank you very
much yeah thank you very much thanks a lot for the opportunity to speak here as well I
can be very brief about this right I think quite frankly what's going on at THCH is nothing
short of scandalous the service I've been living here for three years I'm a leaseholder
with THC's I cannot characterize a single part of the operation of that housing association
as being near functional to the level that it should work right and that ranges from
all areas starting with repairs proactive reactive they're not done to the right level
they're often not done at all administration is a shambles service charge refunds are
not being paid money is being withhold but held you know everything needs to be chased
up communications are very poor anything that's written is full of typos it's complete lack
of attention to detail people are being addressed by the wrong names and written communications
again very shocking this all happens I should stress that under the complete visibility
of senior management as well as the board there are aware of that in return residents
are being treated with what I feel is the utmost contempt and take an advantage of the
fact that they basically have no redress and can't just pyre THC because they're locked
in by by their leases and tenancy agreements and some of the people that are being taken
advantage of are some of the most vulnerable members of society right and I am I'm convinced
that management at th days are aware of that and are taking advantage of that right I have
a long list of evidence that I could provide you know as house systemic that problem is
you know I would invite everyone to have a look at the Google reviews as well as the
glass door reviews of that place it is quite shocking right so I'm certainly not alone
in this assessment but yeah I mean I think I'll close it here because I was given three
minutes and you know if you have any questions then of course I'm more than happy to provide
details on you know my experience with this.
Okay.
I'm going to hear from all the residents then we'll do the questioning so can I have
the next question speaker please.
Thank you.
I'm at least older for THC eight and the complaint is THC and giving no service nothing at all
repair is double local there's no there's no repair people are dying last year someone
died in Voloskey house you know number seven because of the failure and no one doing nothing
about it and this week it's been today's three weeks of free flats in Voloskey house they
will rule up the fees still nothing's going on they can do nothing they don't want to
listen to you don't want to hear you they ignore you people are dying I mean I got report
a civilian report with 119 defaults in Voloskey house has an embarrassment give the report
of the failure still they're not doing nothing I mean when I when when it's cancer going
to take action to one more body to pile up in people's room people are dying and no one
really do nothing about it THC should be out of this door and the board their management
districts should be kicked out from the hundreds you know they shouldn't be in housing I mean
how many bodies you want to be piled up in THC residents you know people are fed up kids
can't go to school because they can't watch the clothes because they can't even cook in
the kitchen because they can't eat the kitchen there's a market with food even the younger
generation are suffering and why isn't tick council getting involved environmental protection
service to go in the put notice on the building there should be a noticing the building because
it's not a Voloskey house is not safe for anyone to live in there and still no one's
does nothing about it might email me sending to the cancerless someone is a no one does
nothing about it thanks to mark an asthma a knowledge law stuff asthma knows what happening
December with all the residents but why is there no one from the even your council officers
our board members in THC why are they doing nothing why is there no one getting involved
and the second thing is um is council taking stock back in house or not can you clarify
that something so and when are you going to take action you know everyone's quiet people
are dying kids can't go to school these are young generation why is everyone quiet service
right there's not even a single service cleaning repair nothing people are paying I mean service
are three grand four grand five grand for what for nothing you can't go to the office but
the office always close can I even if they don't want to talk to you so I mean they look
down on residence you know we're human beings so I mean we're human beings not in animals
so when are you guys going to take action we want to hear today that can't go take some
action against THC because we had enough because I'm going to see no more bodies piling
up until I'm this you know and this is not a job you know this is really not a job
Council's been in power for what two years now so I mean you can work this course by
we'll give like labor as fire independent conservative work together and get rid of
them it's our home it's our homeless it's a very diverse community we all live together
but why you guys keep ignoring it thing you go always fight each other you fight a labor
party find this by eleven find why what can you not get together and kick them out seriously
kick them out so don't ignore us we want some answers today before we leave please become
the joke thank you you have your say can I just so I'm going to come down in a perhaps
a completely different tact and that is about obviously what's happened to us with regard
to the now fouled merger so for those of you who I don't know my name is Anne and I live
on the nerve restate in Bethville Green and I lived there with my life at this time twenty
five years ago via the housing choice process many residents and I were part of a steering
group that after many many meetings and lots of arguments along the way led to THH being
created now we fast forward now to March last year we found out by the internet and of course
not THH because they don't know how to communicate with us that the regulator had finally confirmed
what we residents have known for a very long while i.e. that the organization was deemed
not fit for person and then it had to be grand downgraded the next we heard from THH was
when it announced that the only way forward was for its homes to transfer to another landlord
and ignoring all the protests from its residents in December 23 the further announced that we
would be merging with pop lahaka as we all know after four months of absolutely no information
whatsoever coming from a landlord we then hear that they pulled out of the merger talks and given
no reason why and despite that we now have because of the new regulations it's got this
transparency influence and accountability standard to date neither THH nor the regulator have been
pulled out of the true reasons behind the decision why this merger is not going to happen and thus
we only have THH is patronizing quote that doing so was in residents best interests none of us
would believe that anyone know who it is present someone have any interest in us whatsoever
i think from for us now we now find ourselves in a far worse situation than we were when the
judgment was made many of the then permanent staff have gone and jumped ship and have been
replaced by temporary ones but while staff at the bottom have gone the management and board are
almost still the same so no improvement while it's true that 25 years ago believe it or not
we didn't get to choose who our landlord would be residents were given the opportunity to vote
a transfer to THH based on the promises of massive improvements both in services and our homes
regardless who owns the properties we live in they are our homes that are being messed about
with as such we consider we now deserve the right to again choose who our next landlord will be
but we should have a choice of more than one and they should be locally based and have local
housing services what we used to what we needed and i think gas has already referred to it and
others what we need if nothing else from this committee tonight is confirmation of where it stands
with regard to taking THH back in house because there's still a lot of people that feel that is
possible and we don't know what goes on there and i've lost what i'm concerned and that one of the
other things we'd want as we said with what locally based providers will be even if it means
you as a council making representations to the whatever it is department have lived enough
and the regulator on Abihav as my federal residents hopefully will be outlining yeah i've
just very quick issues repairs and service i've decided to focus on external repairs alone
so you will see that what i've been actually dishing out is some photos of what it's like to
live on my estate at the moment which is a manoeuvre estate and as you can see that this is the tip
of the iceberg when it comes to disrepair is community repairs and we have to currently
enjoy that so hopefully you're going to look at these and if nothing else someone someone somewhere
as need to come in and that's gaz is saying we need help we can't you can't just leave us alone
because you know we're not council but these are the repairs that we need to make yourself
your time is way out so we need to give you others opportunity thank you
can i have a jacket to speak please hi good evening everyone thank you for having us here
my name is Jack here i'm a resident of Charles Dickens house okay
so from the start from the very beginning while i was bidding for this property
THCH misled me and other residents into bidding for this property which we cannot afford to pay for
because we have a service charge heating and rent service charge and heating so the heating element
was not advertised when i was bidding for this property so me and my husband bid for the property
and we were offered the property when i went to sign my contract that's when i see the hidden charges
of the heating heating charge i tried to challenge that on the spot but this was my last property
so it was take it or leave it and i had to take it i had no other choice because i just had a baby
a six-week-old baby anyway so i had to take here i tried to fight this through legal aid but
covid came and then everyone everything went down the drain but where so this is a heating charge
last year the charge was 88 pound a week every single tenant had to pay for this heating 88 pound
a week 4,586 pound a year just for heating cost and i've been asking i've been requesting for
invoices from them is for the sixth time THCH have failed to provide me with invoices every single
time they give me an invoice you see the corrupting there's no file there's no attachment and for the
last time they send me it needs a password and i'm trying to chase up with emails email after email
email after getting no response and the worst thing is i have been charged twice one from my energy
supplier i'm from THCH so i've been paying for the hot water and heating through THCH but i've
been getting charged for my energy supplier for hot water so i've been trying to chase this up why
i'm paying two lots of charges for the same service THCH obviously they've been ignoring my emails
back and forth back and forth so for two years i've been going in a cycle trying to find out why
i'm paying for uh paying my energy supplier for the same service that i'm paying my landlord
and then i had to commission an investigation get an independent electrician to come and investigate
why i'm paying two charges after his investigation he found that from the start of my tenancy
THCH has never been providing me with hot water so all along i've been paying them as well as my
energy supplier and then the same electrician my other residents got the same electrician to verify
you know their charges some of the household they your hot water and heating is not provided
by THCH but everyone's been paying all along and they've been charging us all those years from the
start of our tenancy for service that they never ever provided us we've never we our CCTV hasn't
been working since god knows four five years now we we were still paying for CCTV we've never had
cleaning cleaning was almost non-existent but yet we were paying for the service we had no service
from THCH i mean i'm just i don't know what to say just so angry so frustrated because we are
paying for services that were never provided to us and why do we have to keep uh chasing chasing
emailing mendi i tried to do a first stage stage one complaint regarding one of my uh the misleading
she refused to take it as stage one complaint she refused to take that stage one complaint
they have no explanation of why they misled me all they were saying in the beginning is sorry
they're gonna change this sorry doesn't change anything because now they have imposed this
upon all the residents 88 pound a week who pays that a week for heating i don't think anyone does
thank you thank you thank you we had so and we want answers saying like that and we want answers
what we want answers to that before we don't it's just a doggy
it's a motion that's it can it come along? of course in my near um actually i hate you
i'm a manager for um one of the properties at foli house in THCH my mum's the lease holder she's
a licensed holder and we manage a property of uh one of our six private tenants and they've been
suffering quite a lot um i'm sharing their interest and also the lease holder i was speaking on behalf
of my mother she can't speak english but you can imagine a diverse group of of people that
live in THCH who don't have the confidence of speaking to the THCH operators they rely on the
siblings or the daughters and son to phone them up and you can imagine the manner of stress that
we all have to go through with the operators explaining the situation it's a vicious circle
going talking about the repairs they don't know what they say we don't report this to us
oh okay we were gonna sort it out then they close it suddenly they don't even tell us they closed it
they say that they sent out a repairer the repairer didn't come out and certain things like what
offers me is like certain things like we're paying for service charges it's communal charges for
electricity the electricity doesn't come on at night it comes on during the day and these
big things been going on reporting on my emails i see been reporting this since 2008 and they still
haven't dealt with it you know and and they keep i keep saying what what i haven't they say what
have any dealt with it it's been going into 2008 they say well we sent contractors out as can i
see the proof that the contractors are not can i see the invoices can i see the receipts they say
we're not like to send these kind of things so they they covering up a lot of stuff that's been
going on but i want to go on to about the i know a lot of being mentioned about the lack of repairs
i think that he see i'm sorry the council can involve themselves from the environmental health
services to watch over any any protected issues that residents are having that passing beyond this
unreasonable timeframe that they should intervene and see oversee the sides of what's going on
you know there's there's they go they hide behind these birdings of uninhabitable and in
inhabitable situations they say well it is habitable situations they're playing around with these
terms that ordinary residents don't know about these legal terms do you understand where realistically
in real terms this is not a place you can live where you've got liquor in through your kitchen
for more than two years and the same we can't resolve it because the tenant upstairs not opening
the doors and blah blah blah when they're now going to speak to the resident upstairs
they said so we've been allowing them they can't find the problem well they can't find the problem
they just don't want to deal with it they keep sending different contractors out
contractors don't turn up and then you got these issues with residents having a conflict amongst
each other's because they're blaming them they're blaming us for it they're blaming it to somebody
else and it's again it's there's no transparency around what's going on um i want to say that look
the council can write to the government and ask them to write off their debts you know they should
be asking for those kind of funding supports and if there is a merger there should be transparency
there is no transparency they didn't even say what's going on they didn't even give a you know what
has happened why did the merger go through there's no nothing in writing this council should be
demanding what has happened and put it in writing their resident's demand you know they have you
know they they have a right to know and i can see a lot of people are stressed this is meant
to help over in this week a lot how many people have been suffering mental health issues because
of the problem that we're having for the last couple of years you know 50 things around us
remember the public can you please refrain from recording any video footage it allowed
from the public thank you
Sam
no Sam Pico am I right yeah ask Sam are you online no she's not she's answer before so Peter is the
Peter Alicia hi thank you first of all for giving me the opportunity to speak at today's
scrutiny meeting I would like to thank Councillor Islam and Councillor Francis
for repeatedly asking for this meeting to happen my name is Peter Mengerink and I'm a resident of
T88 and painter house as a shared owner leaseholder you will have heard many complaints about the
service profession sir of T88 this evening the problems are very much the same for my block
T88 seems incapable of doing the basics let alone deal with the bigger problems
cleaning is pretty much non-existent and when it's done it's only the stairwell that is cleaned
where T88 is responsible for the full common areas unless one complains vigorously these
areas are simply not touched repairs and other complaints take far longer to resolve than
their own policy timescales and often are pushed on to residents as their responsibilities
where the lease or the tenancy agreements would back to differ as a company they are in constant
breeds of contact with us shared owners in paint house my lease states that I have to
contribute one pound out of every 38 spent in my block in reality I've been charged one out of
every 24 and on some services even more as they inexplicably charge these on the number of
bedrooms in our in our flats service charges are far too high for the basing this on my block
even if charged that the correct proportion none of the services that are provided are checked
and signed off to have been provided to feed level we have no idea who our housing officer is
or a housing officer's manager it seems that these people are neither steered to do their jobs
and coined by the amount of people leaving after just a short time neither supported nor
guided by management it is an open secret the top layer of management works from home most of
the weeks how can this be right considering the difficulties uh t8 t8 is in at the moment
apparently there's an improvement plan signed off by the regulator although residents have no
idea what it contains nor the time frame of being able to see these improvements this plan is
in existence already for about a year I can confidently say that people have lost faith and trust in
management and are hereby called on the regulator to step in residents are also disappointed with
the board clearly they have no real oversight on what is happening at t8 t8 and I think they need
to have some kind of open letter for residents where they set out how we can expect improvements
they also need to give clarity on why the merger failed after approval
I call on Councillor Hammingrauman who's on the board to relay this message to the board
the fact that the proposed and accepted merger with Poplar Haka suddenly ended without any
explanation to residents means residents will have to suffer longer before we can finally
receive services to these in standard what will now be the next step will we merge with a giant
landlord with no understanding of the local area and its people
many residents want to move back to the council and it would be interesting to hear the council's
position I myself am ambivalent about this for the moment what I want is for any party
interested to take over t8 t8 to engage with the residents as to their plans and assurances
so that we as residents can make an informed choice the choice needs to be ours day but just
the time and so on. Thank you.
Thank you to the resident of THCH for the overview I think it was useful to get
get a sense of understanding from your residents and your view and we would be asking my fellow
colleagues after a good question in terms of before moving to question I'd like to remind
questioners to please keep your questions and breathe as possible and concise and a point
I'd like also to give you many people as possible many questions to ask them if I feel
question taking too long I'll ask you to conclude on summary any members do any members have a
question please? So first one would be James, Mark, Mustard, Asma,
so far okay James, far away please. Thank you all for your contributions I mean that was really
useful and interesting I mean in my ward I do have one block of 20 and which chimes a lot with what
you're saying so I can imagine what it's like for councillors and people living on estates which
much larger and Peter the last point that you made was one the one that was sort of I was thinking
about while listening to you all speaking that was about the possibility of the council and perhaps
taking on THCH, THCH is obviously failing so I was wondering if you or any of the other campaigners
or residents had had any conversations with the council about what that would look like what
you would like to see what the what the benefits would be of that and maybe if you could articulate
now why you think it would be useful to have a local oversight if town its community housing is
to become part of another housing association but that's that's addressed it to you Peter because
you've raised it but anyone else wants to come in on that happy welcome thank you.
Mark please. Okay thank you for that everybody and I think like that is a small tip of the iceberg
for what thousands of tenants and residents of THCH are experiencing I only actually have two
tenants of THCH in my ward in bow east but both of them have complaints about the organisation
and obviously other people come to me so that tip of the iceberg is why we've been arguing for
residents to be given a chance to come speak to the committee and in fact to speak at the council
meeting last September as well which was was also denied so this experience is exactly the
reason why THCH and the other housing associations that were set up were set up with a golden share
which the council retained up until the point that the government forced the council to relinquish
that golden share in THCH at least a few years ago so we could have done something about it and
now we're in a much less strong position to do something about it but I believe that we're in
a position to do something about it so I would like to ask the residents if you haven't heard yet
of anything that the council has done on your behalf to make representations to improve the service
or to get greater accountability or better value for money would you like to see the mayor of
Tower Hamlet take this issue up directly with the housing minister and the regulator.
Excuse me please audience, please, thank you can you answer James question please.
Yes I might have forgotten part of what you said but basically we as campaigns have had no
conversations about Tower Hamlet's taking back control we I'm a little bit disappointed with the
council to be fair with regards to you know the help they've provided residents so far I am aware
that the mayor has sent a letter to the regulator about the merger but that's just about it you
know the complaints we have talked about these complaints are ongoing and have been going on for
years many of the residents have similar problems in similar blocks and we personally I had a
meeting with the mayor in July last year and we sent a letter a long long letter about many of
the problems to all the councilors and we've not had a response we had one response I think
from a council if I remember rightly so we personally you know I feel deflated with it all
so and I'm ambivalent as well with the council taking it back in in stock right because
I want assurances first I want to have conversations that I know what will happen for us and you know
kind of guaranteeing our long-term residency basically I don't know if anybody wants to add to anything
yep so to answer your question really you I mean you'll all recall that there were two
motions that went through some council committee somewhere where the promise was that
and one of them the mayor literally stood up and said you know I'm we are not taking you back in
house as much as I'd like to but I'll do x y and z and even though we can't do that what we're
going to do is make sure we help you through the transition to this merger and all that sort of
stuff and from a my point of view that was the last time we ever heard anything about it until
today in some respects and you know Mark and that will know that I ran it off at the last meeting
about what would be the purpose of us coming to tell you if you can't do anything for us
but at the time obviously we were heading towards papalapa so what was the point but now we're
not going whoever we're going to get what we need is used to stand up and and if you recognize that
we do need this help regardless and and as we've already said it needs to be started using your
voice as a council and collectively and not you know being party politics in all of this
of going to the likes of Michael Gove and going to like to this regulator who appears to be you
know the ones that make and all the decisions around here and tell them you know what as we've
said what what's gone on why because it's just totally unfair they just let us stand a garden
path just to stop and now what's going to happen we're going to end up with probably some other
big organization and are they going to force us into that like they're forces in to in some
respects going to papalapa because as you know there was a big petition and there was objections
that were totally ignored by everyone on my ad but I don't think we got a response from the
mayor to add letter and the fact will also be is that the regulator came in and said just at the
time sorry we can't help you we can't get involved in the process and they come on you know we all
know that not to be true they've got a lot more regulations and powers these days so how are they
going to do that and you know if they're sorry one more point if they came in today and THH they
would have been looking at their consumer standards as well so we had none of that before and because
of that you know we've just gained a rubbish service rubbish services thank thank you for your
view sorry we need to move on can I have some uh to put
yeah can I have your view please yes yeah of course um yeah I mean it has
you know mostly directed to the second part of the question I would ask and really echoes
some of the things that I've been mentioned by um the other residents I think it is important
to highlight that there is a body here whose job it is to ensure these standards are being met
and systemic failure of those standards is investigated and enforced and that is the regulator
of social housing right it is just very true with that on this occasion the regulator is not doing
its job right so you know what the council could do right is indeed apply pressure to the regulator
because in other instances like that where clear systemic failure like this has happened the
regulator has taken action right um you know it's not that there isn't anything that
couldn't that there is nothing that could be done it just isn't being done right and the regulator
is aware of this right um I personally have raised a complaint um with the regulator directly
um about the systemic failure and as I mentioned in my um testimony earlier I alone um in enough
possession to characterize this failure as well as the senior management involvement in this
as systemic and have handed this over to the regulator but the regulator hasn't done anything
thank you thank you for your uh concern and we're taking on notes uh so we uh we have a question
coming up as soon. Next online is mr. Ahmed please. Yeah thank you chair and thank you for coming
forward uh I acorn with Councillor Mark Francis I would say what we have heard is tip of diaspora
indeed and obviously all of us are eager to find out in this situation what the council can do
in terms of putting pressure on the regulators or the ombudsman or and the willingness of the
council but before we're going to do so we have lead member I hope we'll have the answer
to these questions. Can I just ask you to share if possible some experiences of people who
approached the ombudsman and the regulator and what kind of difficulties they have faced in terms of
the grievances being addressed thank you. Yes is yes mr you said regarding ombudsman ombudsman
there's a funding on ombudsman as a report I passed it on to a poll it's really bad we're going to
make sure it's and now I think it's canceling doing nothing you were a board member for CHH
you were a board member for CHH you should know more so I don't know some why you're telling us
because you should know more. I'm having a digger but you should know more and you had a meeting
with us residents and you clearly said I ain't got time to go to any board member and you are
sitting here and lecturing us what the ombudsman we came to you resident came to you
to what he said and now you're smiling and doing nothing I mean it's this is a joke this is that
this is why we're here because no one in the council done nothing we came to you people of
your consider voted for you for CHH and you haven't got time to go to a meeting board member meeting
member of public can you not make a noise please you're here to listen but please be quiet
I'm gonna say it last time because when I hear everything recorded yeah thank you really appreciate
if you do so can I just say can I rectify moustache is not a board member he's declaring
so he's not a board member so please do not speak yeah if you're going to interrupt the meeting
I'm going to ask you to leave can I make myself clear thank you
any recently you've been from board I've been a board member for a long time we have a meeting
we did you know my client just tell me what's that okay thank you very much for your
we took that off with the CHH hey I'm not cutting off you're accusing a member please good
no but that's what we hear no one listen to us and now he's telling me what the issue is so
I'm telling him this no no I told him before when he was a board member I'm telling this you now
as well so how can you not say you don't know about it can I stick to your point to hear what
we need to hear no one dragging on first please no one listen to us we frustrated you know we are
frustrate tenants and residents are frustrated of terrorists yeah if you think I'm having a digger
I'm not it's the truth the truth is you were a board member we came to you you clearly said to
us residents that I haven't got time to go to a board member board meeting if you haven't got
time why you're a board member and now you're telling me what's the report from the ombudsman
we gave you the report from the ombudsman we heard thank you we just need to move on okay
what's that do you want to reply to yeah just I appreciate your feelings thank you very much
for that but what I'm saying say I'm not asking for the report from the ombudsman what I said was
if you could share experience of the people what difficulty they have found so that's two different
things but it's it's okay I'm not ready to dwell on that thank you so much for your comment that's
okay
Asma please thank you thank you chair so thank you to everyone that's come forward and contribute
towards understanding for the committee at least I think as you know I've heard most of
them I've been working with you over the last two years and just to say chair that actually
there are loads of people out in in the borough that aren't here tonight they aren't speaking
who have their experiences and even in the public gallery there are loads of THCH residents that
actually also have had slightly different and had their own experience of the poor service
with THCH and that needs to be acknowledged regarding my questions so like I'm happy for anyone to
take this we as you understand like we do have issues with legislation as to how much the council
can and can't do clearly from what I can hear from all of you is you'd like transparency about
how we are the bridge between the landlord the social landlord and yourself so be able to speak
on your behalf and be able to put pressure on so one first question is is this something that's
going to be very helpful to have your mayor to have all your councillors because to be honest
chair like you might not have any THCH stock in your ward as a councillor but they should not be
clearly they should not be happening under our watch any of our watches and it needs to now be
escalated like Councillor Francis said making sure that the mayor is speaking to the housing minister
the government and be able to see where we can put our experience forward on behalf of the
residents so transparency about what is happening what the mayor is doing what our councillors are
doing making sure that is this also helpful to make sure this committee is also bringing in
the officers of THCH and how you would like us to keep using this platform this committee to
make sure that one we're pointing out what's going on in your experiences but actually be also
be holding like keeping a track of performance and how we're improving the situation because one of
the problems that as you've seen we've had is being able to bring these officers as a committee
be able to agree that officers do need to come because until there is a merger they are legally
the landlord and they do need to answer some of the poor services so like I'd like to talk
about solutions like I'll put three down on the table if there's any more please and if you think
the ones that I've mentioned are helpful anybody want to say it on the fee because I'm going to go
to the one man thank you see we want everyone to work together for the residents of Tallahambas
from both parties or these three parties everyone get together and sort this problem out
I'm not having to get bigger everyone else there was a lot of wrongdoings from the council on both
sides but I'm saying get together with the residents and let's sort this problem out for
the residents of THH because we want THH out we want the problem we saw before more bodies piled
up you know we want to work together and we've been asking that from day one but everyone's been
ignoring us you know so we I'm telling this now everyone needs to get together leave the
difference behind and work together for the rest of the people of THH. Thank you thank you thank you
your point taken by our fellow members and I'm going to go to last the online anonymous
you raise his hands up so please I think you know I can address some of the points that have come up
right yes what could be done until the solution I think it is it goes back to what I said earlier
right I mean it is the regulator's job to make sure this place works right if the place doesn't
work then the regulator needs to take take action this is why the regulator is there
this is why tax money is being spent on operating this regulator right the regulator is aware of
this the regulator is not doing anything the regulator has been doing something in other cases so what
people in this room as well as the mayor as well as the department of living up and housing could do
is to ensure that the regulator does that right it's it's really not that difficult right and if
the regulator finds surely if they were to investigate I'm under no illusion that they would find that
the chart management cannot stay there I would go as far as saying that the current management
should not be able to operate any housing services anymore right um you know I'm not sure what kind
of powers the regulator has in this regard but that's probably what they would find and then
it is up to them to come up with a solution as to what happens with how with this failed housing
association be adept right off with new management be it a forced merger with someone else whatever
the merger that was proposed clearly was never meant um to even go through it was just smoke and
mirror tactics um to uh maintain the position of senior management as evidenced by the fact that
when the merger was proposed the current CEO put herself forward as the deputy CEO of the
merged housing association that housing association that she has just managed into failure
thank you thank you for your uh so I would like to thank you for coming over uh and here give you
a view uh my fellow members officers taking their notes all literally so we run out of time
sorry we will do over exiting the time we will write to you of the outcome if you if we feel like
it's a committee that we need to bring TACH we invite them as well because this is a serious
issue we'll take uh and we'll come back to you on this uh thank you for coming over uh and take
your time and thank you you may stay on a gallery or you may wish to leave this up to you thank you
can I can I just say something chair that's okay so as far as response is back so obviously
these residents have put themselves forward to tell us about their experience yes as a committee
we're going to hopefully look at bringing TACH officers in and that's one scoping exercise that
we'll be doing but there's other things that have been raised so um as a committee as a chair can
you at least commit to the fact that you're able I know the lead member has sat then listened to
all of this but there is also a response from the executive of this council and um the corporate
director for housing as well be able to at least give some reassurance that they've listened to this
and that they're able to find ways of where they can maybe fit in to help um alleviate some of the
problems that they're going for yeah but that's something we should as a committee that's something
we should be suggesting today so let let them go we can if you need to talk about we talk about
the AOB but let the resident go now thank you
yeah chair I do think those things are rather
so Mark thank you chair I do think things are rather left hanging in the air a bit at the moment
and and residents and others and others might might benefit from having a greater degree of
certainty so the lead members here think he's just coming to his seat I don't know if they
and the director if they want to say anything about this now I think you know you've suggested
that there might be a letter that goes to TACH as I understand it that's one way um you know
personally I think the time for a letter was about a year ago I think like there's time for more
uh a kind of forceful stronger action at this stage but I don't know if you want to
give the lead member an opportunity to say something now
I am happy to it's up to you choices you if you want to but what I would say go go
let's order it can be brief I'll be very brief thank you chair yourself please
yeah counselor could be our maid cabinet member including housing amongst other things
so just to firstly start off some of the residents who are here and who presented did have a meeting
with the mayor specifically firstly around Charles Dickens house and the repair issues
around that block which also included a wider discussion around how the RP provided its services
as a whole secondly the mayor has met with residents I myself have met with residents as well
and have initiated meetings with TACH senior management in order to deal with service charges
as well as repairs and another a number of other issues including security CCTV so on so forth
in addition to that the mayor has written to the regulator
asking for residents to be informed of the merger and for the merger to be kept as local as possible
in addition to this we had a meeting set up with residents for the 16th of july however
the merger that was taking place and the subsequent
stop of the merger came across as a strong surprise to both the parties I understand I have had a
meeting with poplar harker in relation to that and they have not received clear directions as
far as I understand why the merger fell through other than to report that it was initiated by
the regulators I think Andrea is here so I'm not sure how much detail I can disclose
within that meeting because some of it is sort of sensitive to the organization but Andrea can
elaborate to what extent on a personal level myself and the mayor categorically do support
smaller localized housing associations we're not particularly in favor of the g15 coming in and
taking over however as a responsible council we have to work with any landlords that are there
so that's the position of the mayor and myself in relation to that thank you
Kabir for updates Andrea do you have any updates at all on this even
obviously I'm in a very difficult position I'm here as the chair of the housing forum but I work for
poplar harker very clearly with my poplar harker hat on what I would say is that I can't speak
for THCH what I can speak from poplar harker's point of view is we still love the view that this
would be the best for residents we could hit the ground running we know the stock we know the
community very well and we are still very keen for this merger to happen if we can get all the
mergers meeting with THH on the 16th of July meeting with the THH THCH management not residents about
things that Andrea is just alluded to just the merger and how that could happen is there
anything that could be done to move that forward so that's the earliest possible date but that's
where THH TH management and when the merger was made public the mayor did write a letter to the
regulator asking for residents to be at heart of everything to be kept informed and also for as
much as possible for the new provider to be from within the borough or you know have a local
have a local presence and he also met with THH senior management as well
prior to prior to the merger being announced just one other area that just one other area
that needs covering is the insourcing as such or the THCH coming in-house I believe in full council
I gave a full response in relation to that previously but one of the primary areas here
is that the level of debt that is currently with THCH are one five one the previous one five one
officer categorically sort of stated that it's not a level of debt that the council can take on
directly that's one of the reasons but there's also other regulatory reasons why we wouldn't be
able to directly muscle in and take those assets back into the council that's not good to please
yeah okay so one of the actions for this committee will be like if we can be told about what
communication so obviously the residents are saying they don't know what's what's happening and if
like the men the lead member and our officers are doing something on their behalf and intervening
so it would be good if there's a log of all those actions so one that is here for this committee so
when we look at improvement plans and we look at how things are going it helps us to be able to
take that into account but also if there's anything missing it can be suggested in this committee
so we should be able to have that information and obviously it is it's better for the mayor
for residents to know how he's fighting on their behalf
so this committee can we agree to certain point that what actions the mayor is taking since the
TSCH the mayor has collapsed time being found out where we are and if you have to may I should
ask for one to spend to see what they're doing about it that's one of the action I'll say suggest
any suggestion from on my right at all sorry
suggestion from the left at all or the middle so look this is I don't think anyone even residents
would disagree that this is a really really difficult situation nobody wants to be here
everybody I think wants to try and find a way to to dig the organization and the experiences
that residents are having out of the hole I think my observation would be first of all that the
actions that have been taken so far haven't been haven't been sufficient to apply enough pressure
to make this happen in a reasonable timeframe I don't think a meeting three months after the
collapse of the merger with TSCH's senior management team cuts it for me it might be that that can
deliver an outcome might be not my view very clearly is that the mayor and in fact like take
along the MPs as well should be meeting directly with the minister for housing and say I've got
5,000 tenants 15,000 of my constituents in in Alberta who are having an absolute nightmare with
this organization and we need a more decisive intervention the regulator has already put in
board members one of those is actually left in the meantime one of them still there something
more needs to be done to turn this organization around I've seen the advert the job adverts for
the board members saying you know we're going through a period of transformation I mean
quirky that is an underestimate and a half like this organization needs really experienced people
and people that are prepared to put their shoulder to the wheel to turn it round and I think that
the only way to make that happen is to get that meeting with the minister and the regulator
and get everybody on site I'm happy if if people think that this needs to be done in a cross-party
way to encourage our MPs to encourage Labour's shadow spokesperson in Parliament to be involved
in this but people need to apply some pressure and the person who's got the power to apply that
pressure is the mayor your problem is taken an action book we'll see thank you we need to move on
thank you everyone for no sorry so
no no no you answer you question me excuse me you talk to me you don't talk to the panel
okay okay you had you had your choice you had no you had your chance
okay we given more than requirement was given sorry can you not speak if he's I'll ask you to leave
you're intercepted all the time can can you remove him please he's intercepted so many times
in the meeting you are intercepted you are you are literally disrupting the meeting
no you can't I told you that I said my son before
I'm going to do this to stay please you can stay or we're going to move on to the next item
thank you
you
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Should we move on, please?
Yes?
My fellow members.
Next item is a review of the social land performance for quarter three.
So, what's the brief introduction?
I'd now like to welcome Karen Swift, director for house and
Andrea Baker for representing RSL in the entire hundreds.
She's a chair for all the RSL in the entire hundreds.
Karen, can you introduce the item and progress you have made, please?
Who's going to go on this?
That will be me.
Thank you.
I will present the report that we're talking about today.
Just a few updates to begin with.
The measures that we've derived are basically set from the list of
the measures used to assess social landlords by the regulator.
The first submission to the regulator from the RPs will be going to be
published later this year in autumn.
Just to know that the regulator has the power to enforce and us as the
council, we basically maintain the relationship that we have with the
RPs and we basically take the data from them on a quarterly basis.
However, I must stress that we do not have any capacity to sort of
establish anything further than that.
Another update is that THH have now come in house, which means that
they're now listed in the report as Ta'amitz Council, and that will be
the case in future reports also.
Just to go on to the data, decent home standard, non-decency rates
across the borough have gone down since the last two quarters.
One housing riverside, Spitfield, Poplarhaka, Gateway and Providence
Row now meet the decent home standard, making that a total of
five RPs with a non-decency rate of 0%.
There's an improvement from last quarter where only Poplarhaka,
Providence Row and Spitfield had a 0% non-decency rate.
With complaints, Ellen Q, Notting Hill Genesis and Clarion all
achieved under one complaint per hundred properties, and all other
RPs achieved similar figures.
The only outlier to this was Swan, who were the only RP to receive
more than four complaints per hundred properties.
But this was largely due to 29 complaints which were received
for a specific incident which took place in one block of flats
where the lift was out of service.
For repairs, eight of the 12 RPs who submitted data
achieved a repair completion rate of over 90%,
with six of these achieving over 98.8%.
Relent times, Ellen Q has the longest time for both standard
and major work relits.
For major works, this was 361 days, however all other RPs
report an average relit time of under 126 days.
For safety checks, just a note before I get into the numbers,
that although there may be a hundred percent compliance rate,
that doesn't necessarily mean that there's going to be
a hundred percent like sort of certification rate as well.
So just bear that in mind with the figures, however,
they are an improvement from last quarter.
So 10 of the 12 RPs recorded 100% of homes have had all necessary
water checks, five of 12 RPs have reported 100%
of lift checks have been completed, four RPs
have achieved, four other RPs have achieved over 94%.
Nine of 12 RPs succeeded in reaching the goal of 100% completion
for fire safety and all RPs achieved over 93%.
And finally, six RPs reached a 100% compliance
with six others reaching 99% compliance.
And I believe that's for gas safety, if I'm not mistaken.
Thank you.
Is there any questions from anyone?
Sure.
Yeah, thank you for the summary.
I mean, we hear that emotional outburst by the THCH
resident, so did you receive any report?
And so far, consistently, have you analyzed what they have said to us?
Yes, thank you.
Thank you for the summary.
I mean, we hear that emotional outburst by the THCH
resident, so did you receive any report?
And so far, consistently, have you analyzed what they have said to us?
I guess if they have said that they've done all these things
and tick, tick, tick, on the ground up, it looks like not.
So I think my question is, are we holding them up to ask them
to verify what they said to us?
To begin with, the RPs, including THCH,
they have the capacity to sort of include comments,
commentary within the data that they provide us.
So we do allow them that space to tell us if there's anything going on
or if there's particularly low figures on a certain question
that we posted and then they can then explain that to us
and we do chase that up as well.
So in terms of, you know, us asking them what's going on,
we do have that sort of relationship.
However, I think in terms of knuckling down and getting to,
you know, really scrutinize what their performance is saying,
we've left that to the sort of regulator to do that
on a much more sort of rigorous base as, like, as a council,
we don't really have that capacity to, you know, make that sort of,
you know, that sort of challenge to the RP.
Give us up.
Can I respond to it?
Yeah, I think it's quite important now that we do dig up the past
and put a question mark to what they report versus what is the reality.
And my question also to Andrea, I mean, you chair the,
all the forum, right?
Therefore you, I think, I think if you, you might have a responsibility
to also dig at the reality behind the results,
I would assume, would you?
No, we don't have any standing in that way to scrutinize each other's performance.
We do share best practice.
We do talk to each other and there are some subgroups that work,
if someone's doing particularly well on something where we share that.
Ultimately, the responsibility for performance rests with an organisations board.
And I'm sure most.
So Poplar-Harker has got a services committee, which reports directly into the board,
which scrutinizes our performance once a quarter.
And it is the board's responsibility to make sure that A, the data is correct,
and B, that the performance is where it should be.
I'll just add to that as well and say that the regulator will be publishing the sort of data
that they've collected, which is using the same questions that we posted,
the RPs each quarter at the end of autumn this year.
So we'll have an opportunity as the Council to sort of compare notes,
so to speak, and see whether the RPs' data is matching up with the data
that they provide the regulator.
No, I can't get to go to Mark, then I'll come to you.
Mark, Mark.
Thank you. Thanks for pulling together all the data for the support.
So we had a briefing session about a month or so ago,
where we had some reflections with the help for external experts
who have spent quite a bit of time working in the social housing sector.
And one of their reflections to us was around the credibility of the data
that social landlords put into the public domain or even maybe tell themselves,
sometimes, and about how that isn't always accurate.
Can I just check, first of all, this only in relation to quarter three,
so between October through to the end of December last year.
Yeah, that's correct.
Okay. So, Kyrian, who are the biggest landlord in BO,
they have 5,000 homes in total in Tower Hamlets,
and they say that they only have one complaint per hundred homes.
Is that right?
That's correct, yeah.
If that's what the data says.
So if that's an accurate portrayal of the complaints that are raised
by residents in Tower Hamlets alone, as opposed to just bespoke for Tower Hamlets,
that means that almost every single one of the complaints that they received
between October and the end of December came from me on behalf of my constituents.
And much as I have a lot of complaints and I put a lot of complaints in,
I don't believe that that's true.
And that is a really good example, I think, of why the credibility of the data
that's provided to us, by these organisations, is so awry from people's experience.
We've seen it with THCH tonight, we've seen it with numerous others.
Sorry, Spitterfields has an association in the past, some spontaneously have come,
you know, all sorts of people.
So I guess the question for me is, what more can we do to make sure that the
information that we are now publishing, and in some ways, we are authenticating,
we are saying that this data is reliable in some way.
What else can we do to ensure that it's actually accurate?
Ma, thank you for raising.
I also went through these few days ago and as a chair, I'm looking at some of them,
and eventually it's 100% through our common.
You know, I know that sometimes when people ask for repair work and then a home,
maybe they're just going to have to get bread or milk and just misty.
100% is how accuracy.
My question is, is this data?
I can see 100 homes, the 100 councils, 75, one house in 73, people do 44,
80%, 85, 90, but some of them go 100%.
I'm just questioning myself how accuracy is those information.
I understand the concerns with the accuracy of the data,
and it's something that will have somewhat of a chance to sort of review when we talk,
when we look at the data that the RP's provide to their regulator,
but I will stress that on point 10.5 of the report,
it does state that the council has no power to act against any social landlord,
and that sort of includes looking and sort of criticising the data that they provide us,
so it's purely on a trust basis.
I think the question before was about accuracy of the data.
I guess my question is, some of it, I guess maybe it could be accurate because it's statutory,
like gas compliance, and so by legislation they're compelled to keep that percentage.
I guess the question is, what do we do with the data?
We're asked to collect the data, and I guess then it's a question of now that the data has come in,
how do we respond and how we engage with the data,
and where this underperformance, how do we report it to the regulators,
and I think I take it as an example, because some of the data that you see,
say for example it's 100% on gas safety checks, and that could well be true,
but then the resident comes and says, I've got a heating bill of 88 pounds a week,
so I think how do we as a council then, when we have these issues or raised,
how do we engage with the regulators, how do we report it to the regulators,
and how do we ensure that the regulators is then taking action to,
because if the council doesn't have the powers, what action is the count regulators taking
in order to address issues of underperformance?
And we've got to just say previously, we've dealt very much with it on a local level,
so for example the time it's housing forum, when the RPs provided data,
it was actually submitted and overseen by the executives,
and any issues in terms of performance, any peaks, drops were picked up by the executives
and actually followed through with their boards, with their data analysts,
from their own respective organisations.
In terms of obviously, as moving said, going forward with the regulator,
and I've been able to obviously have witnessed to this data and been able to publish it,
it will give us a greater opportunity to also cross-reference the data we've received
with what the regulators also received from going forward.
So I mean, we're hoping that as it's been raised previously throughout the forum,
through this meeting apologies, as council officer, of course, we want accurate data,
we want an honest depiction from the RPs, because we also get complaints
and receive notifications from the tenants' residents within the borough,
as you've seen today from CHCH.
We are actively dealing with these concerns, but the problem we have obviously is in those movies,
moving's eluded to our hands are somewhat tight because obviously we don't regulate them,
so we can only go so far as to kind of request that we have to take it on face value,
but that is accurate to what we can expect from the landlord.
And there is a risk if we accept without questioning,
I think all of us are saying that if the regulator has downgraded THCH,
and yet we accept the results from THCH, there is a risk to the council,
so I think at least you should then work with the regulator and say that you've downgraded THCH,
and why are you accepting these results?
I think there must be a response, quiet acceptance will make all of us at risk.
I think in terms of to proceed, we as a council, for example,
if we were to receive the KPIs on based on performance,
to mitigate going forward, you would be able to obviously carry out spot checks,
be able to cross-reference, and those types of actions can obviously,
as it felt like of a better place, the proof is in the pudding.
Now the problem is because we don't have that ability,
this is where we have to take the data that's submitted to us for face value.
However, that's not to say that we take it in naivety.
We do obviously then look at what we are seeing in terms of, obviously,
from members' surgeries, from even being directly being contacted by residents
to the complaints that are coming through the door.
And as I've said, we do raise these with the landlords,
the executives through over the Thames Housing Forum,
or through members to find out what is actually going on,
because obviously sometimes the data isn't actually matching up
to what we've received or what we're hearing on the ground.
I want to say why don't you share the problem with the regulator,
not saying that both of you have to do it.
You can question the regulator and say, Today we had a session.
And all of them are saying that this is not done.
And yet the social and not say, This is done.
Why don't you, the regulator, go and check it up.
You know, yeah.
Andrea, do you want to come along?
Yeah, so up until April, the regulator really only concentrated on money and governance.
They weren't really, they didn't have a remit around services,
service provision and the performance data behind that.
However, from April, the new consumer standards,
which they will be testing during the in-depth assessment process,
they will have to triangulate what residents are telling them
with the performance data that is being processed.
I think Councillor Francis, to your point around complaints,
up until this point, not all our P's would have registered
a members inquiry as a complaint, even though it raised an issue.
But that... Oh, OK.
OK. Apologies.
Yeah, because with the new House in Ombudsman, which is a new statutory code,
we have to, regardless of the source, register,
everything as a complaint that comes into us as a complaint.
My apologies.
James, you want to say something?
Be brief, please.
Yeah, that's what I wanted to ask.
OK, so quick question is, so the emergency and non-emergency repairs target,
is does that apply for everyone equally the same?
And second, I agree with the data with what's been already said in the committee.
Vacant properties.
So it looks like some of our RSLs are struggling to get re-led really quickly.
Is there not room for us?
Because this, obviously, we want to try and get people as quick as quickly as possible.
Is there a room for our housing department to get in and try and put the support in
or work with RSLs so that we can do that more speedily?
Why isn't there a table for Councillor, Councillor and Mayor's Emmys?
So if we're picking up Emmys for RSLs, which are RSLs are there?
How many are there?
It's a really good way to collect data about what we're getting.
And also a suggestion as well, obviously we'll talk about how else we can best find ways
that data that actually is fit for purpose in order to help.
So we should be finding a way of doing surveying satisfaction level with residents that live
in RSLs.
Because on a yearly basis, it's another context that we're able to then put the whole thing
into a wider picture and see if the data matches what residents are telling us.
James, would you approve?
I had two questions, if that's okay.
One is related to RSLs, Relent Times, similarly.
I think anecdotally, so to handle its council stock, is what it's towards.
It's below average in terms of relapse, which is good.
But of course we want anecdotally, that's not necessarily the case.
Like I certainly think of voids in my ward that have taken longer.
Usually when the tenant has died, I imagine there's accession issues.
So I just wondered if, and there is some mention in the notes of what we're doing to tackle
as to how well it's council housing, what we're doing to tackle the time of relapse,
as much of there's anything else that has been done to turn that around.
The second question is just to ask the cabinet member, Kabir, if you could tell us what you've done
to ask the RSLs, perhaps, obviously you speak to them a lot, go to the relevant forums,
ask for them about the data that they give us and sort of hold their feet to the fire
on getting more data and more accurate data out of them.
Thank you.
I think on the whole, there is a general expectation that as responsible providers,
they provide accurate data clearly where it shows 100%.
You know, we need to scrutinise that.
And when I do have meetings with the relevant RSLs,
then those issues will be raised with them in terms of how they got to 100%,
which is not anything else to give us good practice in the council,
so we can achieve 100% as well.
But, you know, it's to do with, I mean, the way the organisational structures are set up,
it's a self-reporting mechanism, but however, as has been pointed out already,
with it also being reported directly to the regulators,
that gives us a benchmark that we can set the data we're receiving through to HOOF
and the data the regulators are getting.
And if the two don't marry up, then clearly the specific housing associations
have got issues in the correct data hasn't been provided.
Data's one thing, but the other is, what does that data represent?
And that is the impact it has on the residents they're providing in you as well as myself
and every other councillor here and TRA reps and so on and so forth know
that there are huge challenges irrelevant of which housing association of the council it is.
Just a brief follow-up on that, has it been raised at the tail hamblets, housing forum,
and if not, can it be raised at the next opportunity, just to make sure everyone's doing it?
You know, bringing in that we've got these concerns and everyone's reporting accurately.
Thank you, Andrea.
Yeah, so I report back to the forum from this meeting,
and I'm very happy to go back and raise again the worries around the veracity of the data
that's been put forward.
To do with, sorry, to do with asthma as well.
As we're asked about, we let us as well.
Mark, I'll ask you any, give you a question to asthma.
Sorry, so the point I wanted to make was that I think we have to press harder on the veracity of this data.
I don't know, like, what is the best way of doing that?
But I think that some of these are really, really quite questionable and quite obviously questionable as well.
I think, yeah, well beyond us, beyond people being invited to come in here and speak to it,
that I think that we have to test it ourselves and we should be testing it in public as well.
So, for me, like, we're just going to keep on presenting this as if it's real.
Like, because we've been doing this for more than two years now,
and when we've pressed in the past on some of them, like, we don't really get anywhere.
Like, we did with Spittelfield's House in association previously.
I don't know what the solution is.
I don't know what to say, or whether I can say what I think the solution is.
But let me just say this.
On Saturday, in my advice surgery, a tenant came in of Clarion House in and he says,
Mark, you wouldn't believe it. They've been messing me around for 18 months trying to put a window in.
And I was like, That's outrageous. What have you tried to do about it?
I said, I've been backwards and forwards, like, all of that time, like, loads of phone calls.
And he's documented the whole thing. And I was like, Okay, did you make a complaint?
He goes, Yeah, on the 2nd of May, I said I had enough. I called up. I said, I want to make a complaint about this.
They told me at Clarion's contact center, You can't make a complaint.
I said, I want to speak to the manager about why I can't make a complaint.
They said, You can't speak to the manager.
I said, Okay, well, how do I pursue this?
And they go, You can ask to get a call back from a manager within 24 hours to discuss whether you should be allowed to do a complaint.
And he said, You know what? Go on, then I'll take you up on that. Call me back in 24 hours and talk to the manager about it.
To his data, he's still waiting. Yeah, this is how these organizations suppress their being formal complaints.
And, you know, this isn't just an individual experience.
This is a systemic problem in the sector, but it's particularly prevalent amongst the G15 housing associations.
And it's got to stop. And people, including councils, need to stand up against it.
No, sorry, I'm not sorry.
Very quick. I just try to find solution for all of us.
So I think maybe sometimes it's to group, because just now when I hear, I couldn't respond because everybody is emotional.
But I think probably what all of us like residents and these sorts of things, we need to group issues into what is dangerous to the...
You know, the man who thinks someone died, but I don't know, died of what.
So I think we need to group them so that we can pass it on, you know, somehow up the chain.
And then to protect the council, I think you'll have to then go up to the government and say that how many residents is now having this issue,
and nothing has been done by the social housing.
And yet the social housing is reported 100%. I pass it up the chain basically.
I think we need to be aware of what residents are facing, what is dangerous to their lives.
And then say to the government that this is something that is for you to, you know...
And do you want to come back and answer on to this?
I'm just picking up Suzanne's point about sort of trying to find some solutions,
because we've talked about this for a while, about the registered providers, you know, through the data sort of mocking their own homework.
And is there a way in which we could sort of play greater scrutiny and rather than just pour over the data that we've got?
Maybe there's a different lens in which you can look at it.
And I'll come on to that in a minute, but just in terms of the THH voids, I don't have anything to add to what's in the report,
because that's directly come from the people who manage the voids.
But what I would say, and maybe Shannon, it's something that we could ask THH, is that we do very well in terms of preallocating new build,
because obviously we know we've got new build. It's quite different if somebody passes away.
You don't know about that, and then there's other stuff that happens on it.
So it might be worthwhile, but next time is to ask THH to break down the void rate for new build and just ordinary relapse,
because I think you'll find that some of the new build might be pulling up the performance of the relapse.
So I think that's just useful just because it is on council stock, so let's see how that sort of shapes up.
And then just in terms of, I mean, I think your right, Councilor Francis, that when you've had individual registered providers here,
it's a much richer discussion because, you know, you've got them, you've got their data.
And I think the pattern of having individual registered providers here alongside, you know, the general report,
I think that's worked, and I think the committee have sort of really got under the skin of some of the data.
So those spotlight sessions maybe are a way to go forward.
So Andrea mentioned about that in April, there's a new way in which things have been recorded, particularly about complaints.
So maybe we just, the committee just gets the data straight from the regulator, rather than sort of trying to collate it.
So maybe that's, you now start to use data that, obviously, enough data won't be being submitted to the regulator.
So maybe it's about the committee getting the regulator data after, well, maybe after the first quarter,
because that is broader than what it used to be.
And then just finally, I guess it's just a question back to members about, you know, some boards have very high concentrations of registered providers,
of one provider, some boards I know just have to have homes.
And I guess it's just a question for me, curies in terms of whether you meet as board members on a monthly basis
with your largest registered provider, whether you've established that.
And relationship, so that you as a board member, as not necessarily as a member of this committee,
but as a board member with all your postbag spotting trends are able to hold their feet to the fire as a constituency member.
One of the things, sorry, just wanted to add, as a council, we had the Onwardsman visit us and we did promote for residents to contact the Onwardsman,
which includes our own cases as well, and where we failed in our duties, we have to put our hands up and take responsibility and learn from that.
So that might be another avenue as well.
If organizations refuse to take complaints, because it will be logged, by all means, members and committee members,
I would suggest promoting referrals to the Onwardsman, because then there is a formal route where complaints are recorded.
That would be my suggestions around that.
Can you ask me now?
I'll use a question you're asking.
No, no, there is one.
So, Karen, thank you for that.
I understand a bit about Tahams homes, and now that it's coming house, I can see whether, I can see with the strategy,
where we do the work in order to make sure, because we don't want a house to be empty a day and hour longer than it needs to be.
What I was talking about is RSLs.
There is definitely room for improvement for us to support them, because when you think about it, especially the small organizations,
bigger nationally, but smaller entire hamlets, a lot of times they take longer because it's out of the way for them or there's more concentration.
So there is actually benefit in us in order to share resources in order to help support,
escalate that time period between when it's void straight on to back onto let's, because it's our residents that are going to be taken.
So that's a piece of work that I think we can definitely be doing.
Any members want to put a question to the panel? Can you put it in writing, please?
On those topics to the poll, we'll take you from there.
Thank you for coming to these sessions.
I'd like to thank both of you, Karen, they want to move on.
I know we've certainly got to move, and I'm not even going to stay on there as well.
So we certainly want to review customer journey for housing needs, and I welcome COVID for coming to members and Karen and the rest of the team and also the Andrea Baker.
You have five minutes.
I believe that everybody read the presentation, Slack presentation.
So we can skip the presentation.
Please just briefly summarize, because we will read the presentation.
I believe everyone read it.
Yeah.
So that way we can save some time to catch up some time. Thank you.
Over to you.
So Chair, I'll be very, very brief.
The reality of the situation is right now we have a very complex and complicated process in how we approach the customer journey.
And it was my first year as a cabinet member that we looked at the Council having a customer service strategy for the first time.
Now that will flow feeds into Councilwide services, which includes housing, homelessness, temple accommodation, and a whole range of added issues along those lines.
As you can see by various different diagrams, the level of complexities that are involved.
What we essentially want to achieve, and we've already started phase one is already done, and we've got more phases which will be coming up in the short, medium and long term as well.
And some of it will be institutional changes is to drive that change so that the customer, the residents of Tower Hamblets, get a better expediated process where they are respected, they are valued.
Anybody could be made homeless with any situation that occurs.
From losing your job, can't pay the rents, you know, Section 21 notices within private accommodation.
So there's a multitude of reasons that could lead to homelessness and other difficulties.
And what we want to do as a Council is be a responsive Council.
So we've had a look at this, we've collated some data around it, and this is a step in the right direction.
If committee members have other suggestions that will help us along the journey, then, you know, you're more than welcome to put those suggestions forward.
Carranzier will say a few more words, because the team have worked very hard on this, and we wanted to shape the way we deliver services for local residents.
Carranzier? The only thing I would add is that Councillor HOWARD might is correct that it's a very complicated process.
The process maps that are in here are just to illustrate the different handoffs and button changes and processes that are involved in often what might Queen seem to be a very simple task, like making an application for housing.
So the process maps are there really just to illustrate the complexity.
I've set up some improvements that have been made, and also given you some illustrations of how we're making progress, particularly on telephone answering times, and also in terms of addressing the backlog of housing register applications.
And I've set out at the end how we're going to take the phase one forward into a phase two to really consolidate, and particularly some of the ICT improvements and the digital journey,
also improve the face-to-face experience that residents have in the residence hub, because it's not always the resident journey isn't not just a digital one.
So face-to-face remains an option for those in an emergency, particularly, and we need to reduce the touch points in the reception area so that people see the person who can offer them the best advice first.
If you go into a unique to triage, the person offering the first bit of advice is your most experienced nurse, and we don't have that currently, and that's something that we're aiming to move towards, so that the first advice is the best advice that you can get.
And there's more changes that are happening in the face-to-face offer in the residence hub.
A queuing system so that residents know their place in the queue, because often stress levels build up if they don't know when they're going to be seen.
And also staff training to deliver sort of empathic sort of service.
I mean, I often think that staff are seeing 10, 12 people a day, and the complaints can be very complicated, but they have to maintain that empathy for the last person they see as much as the first person they see.
And that's very challenging when the situations they're facing in their hearing can be quite traumatic.
So, you know, some trauma-informed training, how to do with residents in an empathic way, you know, stuff that social workers receive.
So, staff training is really critical to getting that empathic service as well as improving the physical environment, and people knowing where they are in the queue, when they're going to be seen, and the best advice being the first advice they get.
So, the first one for me is from the staff aspect perspective, with everything that's going on right now, things are a little bit up in the air.
How are you able to really capture what settled feel like for officers who then can contribute to what we're trying to do here, what you're trying to do here?
And secondly, from a resident's perspective, when they come to the city mayor or the councilors, they find ways to contact you guys.
It's always about this isn't right, so we need this fix in order to pursue an answer or a solution, but I know sometimes you get the customer satisfaction aspect attached to it when they want to complain, but that's very separate from what they want to see,
but what their barriers are, it's very, because a lot of them, I'm going to tell you now, is they are more free to tell us how officers have treated them, surgery, than they are to sell officers, because they are afraid that actually if they do that, they'll get poor service or they won't get the home, they won't get what they need.
So, how are you able to really capture what the residents want?
I've not heard that.
So, I think the first thing is that as members, we play a pivotal role within the community relevant of political parties, and where we see failings identified, I think it's very important that we raise it one within the formal environment and two with directors of whatever service the council has, so that we can identify the issues.
Now, two, we need to set a culture within the organization that is hospitable, so my professional day job is to work within the substance misuse field, with extremely chaotic individuals at time, with high risk, highly volatile individuals.
So, training plays a great deal in how you handle situations and approaches, where these gaps are needed or identified.
That's where management have to come in and support, and I suppose what Karen's saying is, we put that level of management forward facing so that they can get the best advice and support at the same time.
So, there are configurations that Karen's been working on.
We're all familiar with the complaints and everything else that's happened within housing and so on and so forth.
It was widely publicized as a council from both management, the unions and the staff, we've been working on how we can alleviate that and we're moving on to solutions in order to alleviate that.
There are certain areas of bottlenecking, for example, which creates a pressurized situation.
So, again, in terms of systems, we're looking at how we open that bottleneck up, we spread the work along, we evaluate the size of caseloads and how the staff deliver those quality services.
So, I suppose one is an institutional look at it, the other is an operational look at it, and the third element is to have an empathetic sort of approach to how you deal with it and understand.
Because ultimately, if you don't have that level of understanding and you don't see it from the prism of those who have presented, it's very difficult to have that empathetic approach.
So, Karen has been working with her team along with support from customer service and other departments within the council.
In order not to have this isolated, silo working, you know, corner desktop job, but a more open and embracing approach to dealing with their day to day jobs.
I hope that identifies, Karen, do you want to comment?
Yeah, so, I mean, I do see complaints about people feeling that they've not had the best treatment.
I also see complaints directly to me of people who've had a good experience as well.
It was interesting, it never occurred to me what you said that actually residents complain more openly to members than they would do to us because they're afraid of the consequences.
That's something that I've never heard before, but I take that very seriously.
And that may be, you know, one of the things that drives the MEs that we've got.
So, we're just sort of, we're responding to MEs when actually there's a much more simpler way of actually sort of like dealing with it when it first arises.
So, I'll take that back, but I've never heard of that before, and therefore take it back to the team who's working on the customer journey and think, how can we address that?
How can we, you know, try to put some flesh on that and ask people?
There's lots of people spend time in the residence, so there's lots of opportunities to ask people to fill in a sort of confidential sort of survey that we could repeat and then just see whether some of those barriers to make it happen.
The barriers to making a complaint are all thrown up in those surveys, but I will take that back because I've not heard that before.
So, can I just, can it be possible to give some sort of like a three-defined questionnaire that when you go, we got a lot of people coming in the town hall?
And that way you get proper pictures, if you have people and they leave the questionnaire and put it in boxes where that others can't see.
That way it's anonymous so they can have a feedback as well.
That would be one of the good ideas to get customer feedbacks to how the other end is fitting in ME.
So, my hat is another portfolio holder who also deals with the resident hub as a whole.
We already have that in place for the resident hub and that includes all council services that the resident hub deals with and not specific to housing per se.
But housing is included within the feedback forms that we do have, both sort of on-screen digital and of course you've got the online and so on, so forth versions of that as well.
With housing it's slightly different to just people coming into the resident hub saying I've got a council tax query and they didn't get the right response they needed because with housing somebody's got something that you need.
And you're worried maybe that if you're so desperate to get housing that you want to just make the best impression possible.
But I'll take that away in the survey as well.
Quick, I was just wondering, crisis, the charity for homeless, they are based in commercial streets.
So, I wonder like we talk about solutions that are there any collaborative initiatives with them, not to pass the back to them, but more like how to get them to work with us.
Because they are really experts.
I mean, generally we work with everybody, you may be aware that crisis for Christmas took out the corner hotel, so they spoke to us about that as well.
When they took the corner hotel, just near Ata'ale Park for the Christmas period for the homeless, I myself am very familiar with crisis.
Due to my professional work dealing with them on a regular basis and I'm familiar with some of the senior managers who are involved as well.
So, yeah, we do talk.
Thank you for everybody. Mark, quick, please.
James, I'll give you the map.
Mark, thank you, thank you for this and for the time and thought that it's gone into trying to improve the experience for our constituents that are making an application.
So, you know, in the past, we've received a number of presentations about what's the changes that are going to happen, the changes and how that will improve the service.
And we haven't necessarily seen that, but this at least comes with some performance data, which is the performance data that we've kind of been asking for for a while and received other things.
So, I don't want to just dwell on the past.
I do want to look to the future, but I do think it's important that in getting this situation, getting this service turned around, that there's some honest reflections about it.
And if I look at the one that's on, sorry, page 13 of the individual pack, average days to complete tasks.
So, this time of year ago, it was all being done within, is it 10 days, 20 days?
It was all green, sorry, 20 days.
And then, over the course of the summer and autumn, it all seemed to go quite bad and be turned into taking 100 days.
Have I understood that chart right?
13.
It's on page 13.
It's the one that says online housing register applications average days to complete tasks.
Thank you.
So, there's page 52 of the overall pack.
So, it says that the average number of days is taking us to process and complete tasks since go live.
So, what is the explanation that we have for these, like these generally seeming to take between 50 and 200, well, let's say 100 days to complete these tasks?
So, I'm going to look at my chain who saw, oh, business analyst.
If Shane would be able to come in, he's been doing all of the backlog analysis work, identifying the tasks that are needed to complete an application, looking at historic backlogs, and looking at live applications.
So, Shane, would you be able to answer Council Francis's question.
Good evening. Yes. Thank you, Karen. Good evening, Councillors.
So, one of the key contributors there is we need certain pieces of information from our customers to carry out those tasks.
And we found that there were delays in getting that information and we had to spend more time pursuing the information.
There were multiple chasers to get the information returned.
So, we've since looked at communicating in advance, a timeline of 28 days to respond to requests for information so that we can speed up that processing.
That was a key factor. Does that answer the question.
One other thing I want to add with that is we had a systems problem as well. So, the main system that we operate from and the system where the housing applications and everything went into did not talk to one another.
So, there was a human interface required.
So, we have upgraded that system and we're hoping that will expediate time as well in terms of how it's processed.
But the key thing is delays created for information.
Even as we speak from day one, I wasn't happy with a six month timeline for applications.
We've taken it down to four months. Even for us, that's not good enough. We want to go within two months for applications to happen.
That's the rule of thumb, but where there are mitigating circumstances, it may take slightly longer. But ideally, we want to move towards two months or less in order to process these applications.
Right, which is what it always used to be.
So, it's gone from green. Now, I got a lot of red and orange over the course of 2023.
Am I writing understanding this figure is a snapshot figure. So, these are not new ones that are coming in. This is just at that point of the month.
That was the number that have been outstanding for more than 100 days. That was the number that have been outstanding for more than 200 days.
Shane.
Sorry, could you just devise which chart that is, Councillor? Is it a snapshot that, like, say, for example, the most recent month that we've got here is March 24, it says 76 have been waiting over 200 days to complete the tasks.
So, is that a snapshot or is it the new applications that have come in? I think I'm just so that's so that chart shows the days to complete. So that's for completed tasks in that period.
So 76 tasks in that period took that period of time over 200 days to complete.
The key indicator on that task is, of course, that we are processing a lot more now in volume and percentage within the shorter timeframes.
Okay, my last question. When do you expect that this chart is not going to have oranges on it is just going to have greens on it.
So, there's a lot of extra stuff to clear the backlog. There's different bits of backlog. There's backlog of applications, Shane and I segmented them into backlogs of applications where people have put in a form over a year ago and have not replied to three letters asking them to supply additional information.
Those applications, we would be seeking to cancel those. And if people wish to come with a, if people wish to come back there, we'll reopen them. We've done a lot of cancellation so far.
We've got about 2,000 e-service applications as of today, about 2,000 applications, which weren't e-service ones, which were in the system before the online system allowed them to drop into the back office.
I think Shane and I, we can probably recruit a big about five new officers to clear the backlog and do all the tasks, but we think that for some of the tasks, we may be looking at sort of between six and nine months.
But we're prioritizing them, obviously, the what's the beauty of what's happening now, Shane, is that applications are coming in and those forms are dropping into the back office.
They're not sitting there for double entry. So double entry led to, you know, when we had a surge in applications, double entry led to a massive pressure on the staff to put those information that are coming the system into another system.
That's not happening now. So I think we've got a good chance of being able to turn applications around. We're doing it now in 69 days to our target is 56 days.
But there will be historic backlogs like I mentioned, where people haven't responded to applications. And as Shane said, we, we are now saying you only have 28 days to reply with your extra information. We're switching those off.
I'll take a question, not now. Can you put in writing?
No, I can ask them now. That's all right.
I'll take one question out of three, please, because we are already overdue about 40 minutes.
Okay, I still just to follow up. This is one of my questions, which Councilor Francis asked, but I still don't understand.
Obviously, you're trying to point to trends of on this slide slide 13.
You know, there's some renewal, some growth in the ability to reply to complete tasks in the time.
But I'm still not clear as to what the issue has been to create this failure to complete tasks in a timely manner.
Since last year, since May, June, when we were seeing a backlog, when we're seeing the real increase in delays.
And I think Mark asked this question.
I'm not clear of what the answer was as to whether this is a month by month snapshot or whether it's a cumulative snapshot of all of the tasks that need to be dealt with.
If it was cumulative, it would make more sense. But if it's a month by month, these are all the tasks in the month by month basis, then that is worrying.
Similarly, I wanted to ask on question on 14. Obviously, you're point saying there's a downward trend.
You know, we're dealing with the backlog. We're getting through it, but there's two weeks, the 21st of March and the 29th of April,
which really pulls down the figures. The figure, the backlog seems to be staying around zero percent, maybe up one or two percent.
And it comes down massively in two particular weeks, which then pulls the trend down more significantly, I think.
Can you just say what happened in those two weeks to pull the trends down and whether you were focusing, particularly on the backlog in those weeks and also, or if those two weeks are particularly anomaly.
And if, yeah, those weeks were taken out, are we really seeing the backlog trends stay around zero percent? This is on slide 14.
I'm going to answer that if he can. I mean, I think just in terms of what we're doing now is that we're being so forensic that we're probably telling you about everything, including everything.
You know, so, you know, if there are some things that we're uncovering that their applications that were four years old, they're just being canceled.
So I think we've canceled 2,312. So we're being really thorough so that nobody can ever say in the future, Oh, but what about these ones over here?
So I guess we've just gone so forensic shame that the volumes look enormous, but actually, when you put them into categories, we've got a different approach for each one.
And now that the synchronization between the online form and the back office, I think that's going to really help us to motor, but we still have to acknowledge that applications, we are holding them to applications that need to be somehow resolved.
And we're just being so thorough. The numbers look high, but we've got different strategies for them.
And I'll just ask Shane to answer the sort of the blip in the chart, Shane, where it went down.
Yes, so those are two specific bulk cancellations that you referred to.
So one in March there and one in April. So that's where we did the analysis. We identified those applications that you referred to that had no contact and no information.
And we did bulk cancellations of those. That's what the two blips in the trend are there.
But what we're monitoring, what's really important is that level of change each week to see what's going on.
And we can see that report that every week. And with the recruitment of the backlog team that's in readiness for that. And we will then expect to see the assessments coming down for each of the applications that need the full assessment.
And that's where the real work comes in. And the backlog team will be focused solely on clearing that backlog. We estimate it takes around two hours on average for a full assessment of an application.
And that's what we'll be able to report and show that trend of reducing those applications that need the full assessment.
Thanks. When will the backlog team come in? Because it sounds like we're just sort of removing old assessments by bulk as a way of bringing the backlog down.
So in terms of digging our teeth in, I think we used to have this data over a long time as we get it into the future.
It's very useful data and interesting. So thank you. But yeah, we want to see what impact the backlog team has. So when they come online, that will be useful tonight.
We've got some stuff already that we've sort of labeled as the backlog team who are helping Shane to sort of come off other bits of work to do with that.
So I would say in the matter of week's shame, we should be getting those people in.
Yeah, there's the combination of things for offering over time. We're bringing stuff from custom services and so on. So there's a combination of things to contribute to reducing that backlog.
We're very confident now that we've done the analysis, so we know what the tasks are and what the average time it takes to complete a form.
We have a lot of remote working in this area. I think those that's really critical just in terms of setting out what expectations are as to how we want to, what targets we want to see in terms of applications being properly assessed.
So being really forensic, I think will help us just to better monitor the progress. And these are weekly reports that we get.
Thank you. No, I'm going to conclude. We already gone over session.
I'm putting a question in writing and there's one. Thank you for coming.
Sorry, just before you conclude.
Well, you want to say something?
Yeah, just want to ask the committee. If you do have suggestions on how we can improve the journey, please either contact me or do it through the committee to Karen.
We're more than happy to take, you know, any suggestions that are coming forward as a committee.
I hope the doors will be open. I assume those will reopen for us to get to you guys.
I think if you're coming over, I'll put this in the report. Any questions, Susanna, can you put in writing, please?
And from the left as well. So we are going to be running on time. Thank you for coming over.
So everyone, so if we move into the next item, please, 4.4.
You're happy to leave if you wish to do so. Thank you.
It's not there now that you finish it. It's us.
We're slowly moving into the next item is performance report that we did a scriptly challenge session on.
And do members have any questions on this?
Thank you, Chair. I just say that the report has been attached to the papers and we've developed some recommendations based on the video feed evidence that we had of what seemed to be there.
So just if members would take that as red and if they have anything that they feel was anything has been missed, they can let us know otherwise whether they would like to approve the report or perhaps approve it subject to any amendments suggested today.
Mark. Thank you. Thanks for the work that's gone into this. Mr. Burgess, really appreciate this. And thank you, Chair, for getting the session at which we were able to obtain some expert external expertise to help guide us on how we should be doing this.
So look, as an observation, we've got five recommendations here by my record in three of these recommendations with things that were happening in this committee prior to 2022.
So the committee had training.
The registered providers came along and did the spotlight sessions and the residents were invited to give evidence as well. And we had that on numerous occasions from spitterfield housing tenants and from clarion tenants and others as well.
And finally, like we've had some tenants from THCH. So let's not pretend that this is the emperor's new clothes. Yeah, this is what the committee was doing should have continued to be doing.
And hopefully we'll be doing it in the next session when I will be with you, but someone else will be.
I want to say this, though, like you can't do all of what you want to do and be effective in the number of meetings. Now, I know that we've had this backwards and forwards over the last two years.
Yeah, especially, but nearly two years now. I really, really would encourage us. Like we've had a full meeting tonight. You've had to stop people rightly who've gone on too long.
But we haven't even talked about how hamlets, how hamlets own councils housing performance.
Like we haven't had the report about the major works. We haven't had the lease order stuff that we've been promised as well.
Like we cannot, this committee cannot cover this agenda or all of its responsibilities within the time that is allocated to this.
So as a committee, I would strongly encourage you, we voted on it last time and it didn't quite come off.
But to revisit the point about having more frequent committee meetings so that you can do not just the housing stuff and the homeless and stuff, but all of the other things that this subcommittee is meant to be covering as well.
So if we weren't taken, we raised many times. We had a vote last year as well.
I will show you a little bit more back to the awareness. Please tell me back to the awareness on this.
To see if it is a delegate subject housing. And I do also believe that we don't get everything done in time.
That's probably what other members feel the same as well. Thank you.
Mabu, you want to say?
Oh, just in fact, I think I was at the challenge session and I think just the type of thing my name wasn't added.
So I think just page 1671, if we can just add my name, that I was present there.
Yes, we'll make that correction.
And while you're correcting, I'm not the member for all ONS, when housing.
Yes, yes, I'll correct that as well.
Thanks for everyone coming over and that's it.
Sorry, can I just double check that the challenge session review of performance, is it approved?
Is it approved?
I think that was the decision I was making. Thank you.
Thank you now for the meeting to the end.
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Summary
The Tower Hamlets Housing Scrutiny Meeting discussed several significant issues, primarily focusing on the severe complaints and systemic failures of Tower Hamlets Community Housing (THCH). Residents voiced their frustrations and concerns about the poor service, lack of repairs, and overall mismanagement by THCH. The meeting also covered the performance of other Registered Providers (RPs) and the council's efforts to improve the customer journey for housing needs.
Key Topics Discussed:
Complaints Against THCH:
- Residents expressed severe dissatisfaction with THCH, citing issues such as unaddressed repairs, poor communication, and neglect of vulnerable residents.
- Specific incidents included a resident's death due to neglect and ongoing issues with heating charges and service charges.
- Calls were made for the council to take decisive action, including potentially bringing THCH back in-house or ensuring a merger with a competent local provider.
Council's Response and Actions:
- Councillor Kabir Ahmed and other council members acknowledged the issues and outlined steps taken, including meetings with THCH management and letters to the regulator.
- The council emphasized the need for a localized solution and expressed a preference for smaller, community-focused housing associations over larger, less responsive ones.
Performance of Registered Providers:
- The meeting reviewed the performance data of various RPs, noting improvements in some areas but also highlighting concerns about the accuracy and reliability of the data provided.
- Members questioned the credibility of the data, especially in light of the severe complaints from residents.
- The council discussed the need for better scrutiny and possibly using data directly from the regulator to ensure accuracy.
Customer Journey for Housing Needs:
- The council presented its efforts to improve the customer journey for housing needs, focusing on reducing complexity and improving the efficiency of processes.
- Key improvements included better ICT systems, staff training for empathy, and clearer communication with residents.
- The council acknowledged ongoing challenges and committed to further improvements, including reducing the backlog of housing applications.
Recommendations and Future Actions:
- The committee discussed the need for more frequent meetings to cover the extensive agenda and ensure thorough scrutiny of housing issues.
- Recommendations from a recent challenge session included continuing training for committee members, inviting RPs for spotlight sessions, and involving residents in the scrutiny process.
- The committee approved the recommendations and emphasized the importance of holding RPs accountable for their performance.
The meeting highlighted the critical issues facing residents in Tower Hamlets and the council's commitment to addressing these challenges through improved oversight, better data accuracy, and more effective customer service. The meeting focused on housing issues in Tower Hamlets, including the performance of social landlords, the customer journey for housing needs, and the scrutiny of housing services. Residents voiced significant concerns about the performance of Tower Hamlets Community Housing (THCH), highlighting systemic failures and poor service delivery.
THCH Performance Issues: Residents expressed severe dissatisfaction with THCH, citing issues such as unaddressed repairs, poor communication, and a lack of accountability. Specific incidents included a resident's death due to neglect and ongoing problems with heating charges. Residents demanded immediate action from the council, including potentially taking THCH back in-house or ensuring a merger with a competent local provider.
Council's Response to THCH: Councillor Kabir Ahmed and Andrea Baker from Poplar HARCA acknowledged the issues and outlined steps taken, including meetings with THCH management and the regulator. However, residents and councillors called for more decisive action, such as direct intervention by the mayor and pressure on the housing minister and regulator to address systemic failures.
Social Landlord Performance Data: The committee reviewed performance data for various social landlords. Concerns were raised about the accuracy of the data, with some landlords reporting 100% compliance in areas like gas safety, which seemed questionable. The need for more rigorous scrutiny and verification of this data was emphasized.
Customer Journey for Housing Needs: The council presented improvements in the housing needs customer journey, including reducing backlog and improving response times. However, councillors highlighted the need for better staff training and more effective communication with residents to ensure a more empathetic and efficient service.
Recommendations and Future Actions: The committee discussed the need for more frequent meetings to cover the extensive agenda and ensure thorough scrutiny of housing services. There was a call for continued training for committee members, regular spotlight sessions with registered providers, and better engagement with residents to gather accurate feedback on housing services.
The meeting concluded with a commitment to address the highlighted issues and improve the overall housing service delivery in Tower Hamlets.
Attendees
- Abdul Mannan
- Asma Islam
- James King
- Kabir Ahmed
- Mahbub Anam
- Marc Francis
- Musthak Ahmed
- Saif Uddin Khaled
- Shafi Ahmed
- Susanna Kow
- Andrea Baker
- Justina Bridgeman
- Karen Swift
- Paul Burgess
- Paul Patterson
Documents
- Agenda frontsheet 13th-May-2024 18.30 Housing Regeneration Scrutiny Sub Committee agenda
- Supplement 1 - Actions Log 13th-May-2024 18.30 Housing Regeneration Scrutiny Sub Committee
- Declarations of Interest Note
- Printed minutes 29022024 1830 Housing Regeneration Scrutiny Sub Committee
- HRSSC Action Log 2023-24 - 13 May 2024
- HRSSC Social Landlords performance report quarter 3 202324
- HRSSC 13th May Q3 Landlord report APPENDIX 1 Final
- CS for Customer Journey
- Housing Options customer journey 003 002 004
- HRSSC Cover Report - RP Performance
- RP Performance Scrutiny Review Headed Report