Transcript

Good afternoon, everybody. Welcome to this meeting of the London Borough of Townhamlets Licensing Committee held today, Tuesday 29 October 2024. My name is Peter Goldes, I'm the chair of the London Borough of Townhamlets Licensing Committee and I will be providing over the meeting today. For your information, the meeting is being held in person, and committee members and key participants are here in the room, but as you can see, there are people online who can watch us. The meeting will be filmed for the Councillor's website for public viewing. May I remind everybody that if you wish to contribute when we get to the open part of the meeting, signify to me and I will call you when appropriate. We are rather helped on that is that you actually can't speak unless the previous speaker has released their microphone, so you can try and interrupt and all that will be seen is a mouth going open and shut. I've introduced myself and I'd like everybody on the panel to introduce themselves. I'm sitting to my immediate right is Simi Asmin, Democratic Services. David Wong from Legal Services. My role here is to provide legal advice to the Councillors. Councillors have been actor. I'm Stephanie Greenwood and I'm one of the members here today. I will remind everybody again that the members are obviously responsible for making a decision. When we adjourn to deliberate, we will be advised by Mr Wong and Ms Yesman will be present to take notes at that meeting should they ever be required on any other occasion, but the decision will be members and members alone and we will notify you whether our decision is unanimous or by vote. Formerly we have to record apologies for absence, but we have no apologies because the committee is a three member committee and if one of us were absent it wouldn't be quarant, so that is a legal necessity. I am required to ask do any members have any disclosable pecuniary interests? I have none. But for one of the application, I think the only application we're dealing with today falls within my ward. Councillor Ahmed has recorded that he is Councillor for Hospitalfield and Bangby town where the applicant is located, but he has no disclosable pecuniary interest. Can members and everybody note the rules of procedure? I have outlined them previously, but I will invite the officers to present the report. I will then invite the applicant to make representation and then the objectors to make representation. Members will then question both sides. We will then adjourn to deliberate our decision if that is okay. I now go to the formal part of the agenda for noting and the agenda has two items for consideration. Item 3.1 has been withdrawn. So we move immediately to item 3.2, which is an application for a new premises license for Quiz Room, which is the ground floor Brodie House 19-25 Bell Lane, London E1 7 LA. It's on pages 95 to 244 of our main agenda and with the supplementary agenda, may I ask when anybody is contributing and referring to what is in the agenda they refer to the page, because what you don't want people flicking through hundreds of pages trying to find out what you're talking to. We therefore go to, and I'm going to invite Ms Yesmin to tell us who is present on behalf of both the applicant and the objectors. Thank you chair. For this item, for the applicants we have Lana Tricha and Tristan Qui Lin and Rachel Pulley who are present. In terms of the objectors we have Ibrahim Hussain representing the licensing authority, we have Mr O'Leary representing environmental health, Mr Eduardo Zagaretta who's joined us online who's a resident, Mr Robert Breslin and Mr David Huall who are also present here at the meeting and our residents. After the application has been presented the applicant will be invited to speak and will be given a total of 10 minutes to make their representation. The objectors will also be given 10 minutes to each to make their representation. I'll let each speaker know and they have one minute remaining. Please note that the subcommittee have read the agenda pack in advance. Thank you chair. Thank you very much. I obviously worked out who everybody is with one very quick exception. I can guess immediately Mr Zagaretta is the gentleman on the screen, but could Mr Breslin indicate which, that you're Mr Breslin, thank you very much, so when I can indicate who that is that would be very very helpful. I'm now going to invite the Corinne Holland who is our licensing officer to introduce the report. Ms Holland is the lady sitting there. Thank you chair. This is an application for a new premises license for Quiz Room, which as you stated is the ground floor Brodie House 19 to 25 Bell Lane. The premises application is described as an interactive entertainment venue where customers can play knowledge-based quiz games in groups with friends or colleagues. A copy of the application is in appendix 1 on page 108. The times that the application stated in the application is in section 3.4 of the report on page 96, but in the supplementary agenda submitted by the applicant, these times have reduced these times to month for the sale of alcohol Monday to Saturday, 11 a.m till 9 30 p.m, Sunday 11 a.m till 7 30 p.m and then for regulated entertainment in the form of films and recorded music is Monday to Saturday 11 till 10 p.m and Sunday 11 till 8 p.m. These are in the appendix, these times are on page 6 of the supplementary agenda. A site plan of the venue is in appendix 2 on page 126. A map showing the vicinity of these premises is in appendix 3 on page 128. Photographs of the premises are in appendix 4 on page 130 to 135. Nearby licensed premises are included in appendix 5 on page 137 to 140. This application needs to be heard by the committee as relevant representations have been received by the following. The licensing authority and that's appendix 6 on page 142. The environmental health and that's page sorry appendix 7 on page 147. And then there's a number of resident representations from appendix 8 through to appendix 37 which is on pages 149 to 212. There's conditions which have been volunteered in the application and extra conditions that have been agreed by the police. These are in section 7 of the report starting on page 99 and also the agreement is in appendix 38 on page 214 to 218. And then the appendices 39 to 46 which pages 220 to 243 are general advice for members. Thank you, Chair. Thank you very much, Ms Holland. Can we now go. So do members have any questions to Ms Holland at the moment? I don't know. Councillor Ahmed? No, I've no questions. I'm going to now invite the applicants to present their case and we will give, they have 10 minutes for that. It will be up to them exactly how they divide, divide 10 minutes between them. So the floor is yours. Thank you. You have my summary in the supplementary papers through there but by way of background Quiz Room has been operating for five years and there's almost 70 Quiz Rooms around the world currently operating. This site is fully owned and operated by the Quiz Room team and here we have Tristan Quinlan. He is one of the founders of the company so he is operating this venue. We have a long lease for the premises and the investment already spent is over 700,000 pounds. There are a number of residential objections which we acknowledge. Many are very identical. We have offered to show the residents around the premises through speaking with the building managers through there but it's important the operation is understood as we're unable for whatever reason, it's no criticism. No residents attended the premises to actually have a show through. Obviously it's important to understand the operation as we're in the cumulative impact zone. We are close to the edge of it but we are in it nonetheless and the application has to be dealt with on its merits. So what is the Quiz Room? We're not a bar, we're not a club, we're not a restaurant and this is important when we're looking at the impact in terms of the cumulative impact area. We are an exceptional concept. It's an interactive entertainment concept and customers come, they play knowledge-based quiz games and it's in groups of friends or colleagues. Tickets are between 25 and 28 pounds per person and the games take place in five dedicated areas. There's five rooms and they're shown on the plans at page 126. The duration of the game is around one to one and a half hours and each game room can accommodate up to 18 people maximum but on average based on Tristan's experience usually get around eight to ten people per booking. Now the concept and venue has been tried and tested in over 70 venues and we've never been a nuisance generator. In addition to the quiz entertainment we offer light refreshments, food and beverages. They're on sale in the reception area and this is just to enhance the entertainment experience. We have the DPS here, Rachel Pooley, the proposed DPS and very hands-on approach to guest management. They welcome the customers as they come into the venue, escort them to one of the five quiz rooms and explain all the rules and concepts. The core business and I stress this is the entertainment quiz room experience. That's the main revenue generator for the premises, not the alcohol sales. Alcohol is a very ancillary feature to what this operation is and in terms of revenue based on other premises it's only around five percent of the total revenue of the premises. It's important addition and that's why it's being applied for today. Now in terms of alcohol it's only a small selection. We are not a bar, we don't have the full complement, we don't have a bar frontage in terms of the premises. I'm told today that they're just seeking to offer sort of two beers, one cider, some wine and some pre-mixed cocktails. So it's certainly not a full bar selection, we're not encouraging excessive drinking in any way. And this is important when again we're considering the premises are in the cumulative impact area. We've agreed a condition and that's in the proposed conditions that the licensable activities authorised by this licence and provided at the premises are ancillary to the main function of the premises as a quiz room entertainment facility. And this is set out in your policy as exceptions to cumulative impact and the condition was offered at the first instance and what it does is we have got a long lease and we've got no intention of leaving the lease but it also allows if anything is to change in terms of the operation and for the protection of the residents they would have to come back before members to vary that condition in terms of the operation. So in terms of the operation the focus as I said is on the provision of entertainment and not loud music, it's quiz entertainment. Before the game people can have one drink and that's only if they arrive on time because we've got to go through the rules and the procedure there and it's in the reception area. That area is to purpose is to greet customers and to explain the concept and the rules of the game and customer dwell time before and after is very low. Clients usually typically from experience will have one beer or a drink if that, additional drinks we don't allow, we don't encourage and that's because we have other booking tea people groups coming in and we don't want to make the premises with a lot of people in it through there. We need to move them on so we can get in the next group of people. People aren't permitted to come to the premises and consume food or drink without playing the quiz room entertainment and this can be conditioned if need be in along the lines of alcohol sales can only be made to people who are the participants in the quiz room entertainment. So we're not seeking to attract general bodies from outside coming in for a drink. In terms of the clientele as I said in my submissions around 90% of the people are going to be pre-booked online and this is fantastic because we can regulate when they come in, when they leave in terms of the whole timing of that particular entertainment and the booking schedule. In terms of staggering the applicant when it first starts we only open three of the five rooms to start off with so we don't have a massive influx of people and people can leave at the end of their allocated time and the core customers are corporate clients to deal with that and we're not actively targeting hen or stag parties. Now most of the objections that have come in they are repetitive and they focus on the prevention of public nuisance which we acknowledge. Firstly the entrance to the premises has been relocated from Stripe Street where that's where the main residential entrance is to the other side of the building on Bell Lane. This is important because it's raised by some of the objectors and what we have is there is an emergency exit on Stripe Street and for wheelchair access only but there's no need for our general clientele's when they're dispersing or arriving to go to the back streets around Stripe Street, Layden Street and Cobb Street there's no need for them to actually filter around where the residents are. Now secondly we have this concept obviously has a lot of multimedia we've invested over a hundred thousand pounds in that and because of that we've invested also in a lot of acoustic works. What we've done the volume of the music in the communal areas is relatively low I have applied obviously the live music act applies in any event up to 11 8 11 pm but what we've done with this soundproofing we've got quality audio equipment and that just ensures the rooms are completely secure and they absorb as much of the noise as possible. We've also soundproofed additional soundproof along the edge of the building along Stripe Street so that that's where the resident will join up with the residents there and that creates a double barrier along with the double glazing as well and the walls of each of the quiz rooms have also been individually soundproofed and you'll see from the pictures in the papers there's soundproofing in the ceiling as well and that's just to reduce echo and absorb the sound because we can't have whatever's happening in one of the quiz rooms affecting our other clients elsewhere. We have done some sound testing with the residents with three flats above us directly above us and in the communal areas and they have shown being successful with no noise escape going out to the residents so we're very confident and convinced that what happens in the premises is not going to be an issue. Thirdly all the internal and external doors they're kept closed except for when we're exiting or entering the premises. Fourthly, or I think I'm up to fifthly now, the customer experience is actually set so when you go into the room it's a set experience so there's no need for volume adjustments or anything to happen within the premises so once the set volume has been set and we've tested that already with the residents above there'll be no altering any sound systems and it will just play in terms of what the experience is so nothing will change in terms of sound levels. Quickly there's of course CCTV throughout the building there's no police objection we're well managed and trained staff and there's controlled access to the premises which manage customer flow. In terms of dispersal when customers make the booking we set out departure information entry information on the email confirmation so they're aware of how they're going to get to the premises what the rules are in terms of leaving etc and no off sales of course are being sought. Last thing we want to do is cause problems for the residents which we are also part of that communal building and pay money in terms of the community benefits as well. In terms of the licensing authority rep which is at page 145 I have agreed condition number three and that's set out in my submissions. We can't obviously agree to condition one because we're not a restaurant but we have offered the ancillary condition that alcohol is ancillary to the entertainment so that sort of balances that out. And in terms of condition two the seating customers we don't like to encourage dwell time we don't want dwell time we want to get more money in from the tickets and the groups in terms of the revenue there we're not about selling alcohol and making our money for alcohol and the drinks etc. So we encourage people there is a breakout space for people to discuss things but then they leave and go on their way. In terms of the environmental health rep I've gone through the public nuisance it's very general their representation but hopefully I've sort of assessed the noise breakout from the premises and all the works that have gone into that. It is a commercial space business rates are being played alcohol is ancillary to the premises we've got CCTV lighting and we are actually in improving the area in terms of the commercial space. I have given my client advice on incidental regulated entertainment as well we come trying to be transparent with conditions that will actually help with enforcement of the premises. I'm happy to answer any questions I think I've run out of time Rachel you can answer any questions the members may have if you want to say anything. Thank you. Thank you very much Mr Tricke that was very extensive. We've now got in the same 10 minutes we've now got five contributions from two council officers Mr Hossain and Mr O'Leary and then three residents Mr Zarghet and Mr Breslin and Mr Hall so I will kick off with Mr Hossain. That's okay. Thank you chair the licensing authority made this representation in relation to the quiz room application based on 19. Would you speak up into the microphone. The licensing authority made this representation in relation to the quiz room applicant application based on 19 to 25 Bell Lane based in E17LA. Please be advised that I am covering for my senior licensing officer motion only who is on leave at the moment. This representation is mainly for the premises for within the CAZ area and the special policy create a revertible presumption the application for this current premises license which are likely to be added to the existing cumulative impact. Thank you. I understand like now the applicant have agreed condition one and three but not condition two which my colleague emotionally have requested there should be no vertical drinking of alcohol at this premises. That's it. Thank you sir. Next is Mr O'Leary agreed to condition one and two it's condition three that they've agreed to. Yeah that's why. Thank you. Good afternoon everyone I'm representing Nicola Kazo my colleague um so I'm having considered a premises license application for quiz room ground floor 19 to 25 Bell Lane London E17LA. We have to consider the impact of license of the licensing objectives particularly for environmental protection the prevention of public nuisance and the provision of noise generated from within the premises or outside to be causing disturbance to people in the vicinity especially when considering the premises is in Brooklyn cumulative impact zone. Whilst the premises is proposing to approve within framework hours the applicant has applied for regulated entertainment recorded music and consideration has to be given to the live music art 2012 and as amended if the venue is licensed to sell alcohol for consumption on the premises amplified music can take place between the hours of 8 a.m and 11 p.m seven days a week so any noise conditions attached to the license with regards to music would not apply during these hours and particularly consideration has to be given to the venue being in Brooklyn cumulative impact zone. Noise sensitive areas residential premises are in close proximity to 19 to 25 Bell Lane um including residential properties directly opposite Saro Bell Lane at Brun house um about 50 minutes meters away. In our view the application as it stands fails to comply with the objective of a licensed knife 2003 relating to public nuisance for the following reasons noise breakout from the venue affecting resident or neighboring residents. In our conclusion environmental protection does not support the application for Queens room ground floor 19 to 25 Bell Lane London for the great greater likelihood of disturbance to residential premises. Considering the premises in Brooklyn cumulative impact zone again um we obviously appreciate the supplemental um you know um agenda and the conditions you propose and the fact that you know you've done some sound you know proofing and sound testing um also you've changed the um the um entrance to um to Bell Lane um but the fact remains that you know um you know it's still because you know CIZ zone and will leave the decision for committee to to make. Thank you um thank you very much Mr O'Leary. Sorry we now move move to the residents and I'd like to invite Mr Sargeta. Yeah yeah please do and I'm going to I'll email Ben. I'll email um. Hello hi can you. Yeah I would like to talk when these uh people stop. I think they must do it themselves. I mean I can do it. Hello good afternoon can you hear me? Yes. Yes so uh very briefly so uh this is a French company they have no operations in the UK so um we went to France to France to look at how they operate and we have found that there are actually complaints about how this place is operated. The kind of complaints that we have found in France because it's a French company with this would be the first location in the UK so we have zero previous experience on how they carry on their business in the UK is the impact on noise levels. What's up? Impact on noise level. Will you please stop? Will you please stop? Mr Sargeta I'm sorry to say if you're discussing which to introduce complaints outside of the London Barrow Tower Hamlets they are not relevant and we can't consider them. We have to consider the application before us. Yes the person who spoke before me for the application mentioned a certain kind of behavior that they have. There is no proof of this behavior and how they conduct business because they have no businesses in the UK. This is not a UK company so that said I want to focus on the council. We complain that there will be increased noise from patrons entering and leaving the establishment especially during late hours and that could disrupt the residential peace and lowering the quality of life for residents. We expect this to bring more traffic and parking strain. We know how difficult it is already for residents and it could cause hazardous traffic conditions in the area. The main concern is alcohol. Without alcohol we fully embrace this business but with alcohol we must object. Alcohol consumption in the area might lead to increased incidents of disorderly behavior, loitering and even crime posing a risk to local families and children and we all know from the borough that alcohol serving establishments discourage prospective buyers and renters and lower property values in the neighborhood. So these are my complaints. We don't want a bar or a semi-bar near to our building and I leave the floor to the other people. Thank you. Thank you Mr Zagetl. I now turn to Mr Breslin who I'd like to invite to contribute. If I could say which we emphasize we are bound by looking at the application before us so if you could concentrate on what is before us it would be most helpful to us. Absolutely, fully understood. Thank you very much. First of all thanks to the applicant for putting forward such detailed information. We do appreciate the fact that you have exhibited some sensitivity towards our concerns. However the fact remains that irrespective of the soundproofing within the premises and irrespective of your best intentions to maintain order what we will be presented with is we will be presented with increased footfall late at night from people in high spirits, some of them standing outside smoking, some of them standing around waiting for a taxi. This is not consistent with the quiet residential area that it has been up to this date. We are very very concerned about the fact that whilst alcohol is not the primary function of the premises there will nevertheless be occasions, I can't say how often, but there will nevertheless be occasions where there will be roundy parties who will be making noises either on the way in or on the way out of your property. Changing the entrance from Bel from Stripe Street to Bell Lane doesn't make any difference whatsoever. You had the situation had the entrance been on Stripe Street you would have had residents on the west side of Layden Street being impacted which we're now going to have is the people still the same people in Brody House and Layden Street which will now also be impacting those people and Bruin House which is the other side of Bell Lane approximately 15 to 20 feet away from the entrance to your premises. So my point is we do appreciate the fact that you are aware of our concerns but the simple fact remains is that this is not the kind of premises we wish to have under our own bedrooms because this is exactly where it's going to be. The pavement where people are going to be mulling around smoking or waiting for taxis or waiting for friends to turn up is four stories below our bedroom not just our bedroom but other other people who live in neighbouring properties such as Brody House. So that's my piece there isn't much more I can I can add to it I'm afraid. Thank you Mr Breslin. Mr Hall if you'd like to if you could direct your contribution to us as opposed to anybody else because we have people making the decision. Can you hear me okay I live directly above Quiz Room on the first floor in Brody House so I'm very interested in that testing that I don't know anything about but it gets to a bigger thing for me. If we do end up if this ends up getting approved what can we think about doing further down the line if there are problems that's what I want to understand as a resident I don't want to be blocking things but I want to know that we've got some opportunity to refine things after today. I can easily answer that because of course were we mindful of granting a consent and remember we're not granting a consent to quiz to the quiz premises we're merely considering whether they should be licensed or were we mindful of granting that and we have many hoops to go through before we do that it will be you would have every right after a period of time to invite us to review the decision that is your inalienable right okay you certainly have that so if that's answering part of your question otherwise I do share the concerns about nuisance but I still think we should give it a try. Can I say thank you very much to all our contributors I we've obviously learned something and I suppose I ought to declare one interest I know the area quite well my great-grandmother went to school there 130 years ago so I have some idea of the area through anecdotally from the family can I we now come to questions for everybody I'd like to direct my first line of questioning to the applicants and I still would like a picture of what you do because Simon I'm a sort of inveterate pub quizzer and I do quizzing so what actually happens would you please try and explain it to us okay okay yeah sorry my English isn't it is not so good so for for this answer right with it and so I joined the quiz room in September obviously never heard of it before I did go over to Paris to understand how it works and play the game and meet the team and it's a really great concept and I'm just quite upset that the residents didn't come down actually during our offer to find out more about the game sure okay so teams pre-book normally corporate teams would pre-book they would turn up they're shown into a room they stand at one of six podiums questions are read out and they have buzzers where they answer ABC or D and that's basically it so the game lasts an hour or an hour and a half depending if they have two or three games they then come out like we say they can have one or two drinks and then they leave next team we stagger the bookings every half an hour so that we're not getting everyone turning up at once and when it gets a t-shirt and that's that's the basic concept it's just for people to team build you know just to get to know their teams to come along on a team building day or a corporate event and that that's the basic idea around it and so I can I can give precision and the experience itself so you have six volumes and you are alone always two people or three people on each podium and you answer the question that are asked by the by the voiceover so the game is basically automate automatic and like you have different set of questions with questions you have to answer quickly questions you have just you have to answer and like everybody can answer and basically it's like it's about popular culture not not too much general culture so it's it's open to to everyone and it's not that difficult the idea is to to make sure that that every everyone can enjoy with this experience and so yeah you have different thematics so the questions could be on sports on music on cinema on service and everything yeah I think that's it I think I've got the idea why do you want why do you need the additional time for film and music the music was just as a belt and braces approach it's within the life it's within the live music act so technically we don't need to apply for that there is music that's it comes over sort of in the questions to deal with that there is some films as well that come through that it's not showing an actual film within the premises it is part of the quiz room experience any music that's played within the reception area is is background music so that's not license able to deal with it it's very much just part of the quiz room and it's as I said earlier I've given advice on incidental regulated entertainment as well but we've done it come into trying to be transparent in terms of that and obviously films doesn't fall within that there is no alcohol that's permitted in the actual game rooms itself so that's contained within the reception area so it's very much just the quizzing experience once you get into the rooms and that's what the business model is so the idea of film there'd be a screen somewhere and you will show picture it with possibly a little bit of background music and you say which Harry Potter film is this at the center of the rooms you have like screens where you can see all the questions and all the answers and you know this is counting of the points to get to know who is the leader and who is the second and everything and so it's it's important to it's important to say that the the objective is to to come and live this experience and drink a beer or something is just an additional things and it's not the main point but currently we are not open but maybe you mean in France yeah it actually depends on the on the premises but most of the time we have only one or two two beers one cider and soft drinks you know but you know the idea is not to be a bar we have we have no droids so yeah again it's it's like an escape room and I don't know if you know escape rooms you know it exists in the UK and this is more like this you know it's living an experience but the idea is not is not to drink at all this is not the very reason for coming okay thank you very much so how are the winners rewarded this was actually a thank you to thank you to the applicants and obviously the residents up here today so like the chair I was really interested in this concept and what was it about very new and I think you've kind of explained it better now so in terms of you've explained like how many people can be at the same time and you know how you've done the the setup where it's half an hour so is it half an hour during the partnership of the game or is it from the entering to exit kind of also the reward competition so we know it's kind of a quiz but is a reward scheme where for example the winner gets the same price or what is the reward always just a points where they just like okay you're the winner you just leave as a group what is the reward scheme actually when you when you book you you book for an hour it means two games of 30 minutes and if you want you can also book an extra game which means that you will come for one hour and a half and also there is a reward because like the winner wins a free game so it can come again for free yeah and so like the idea is that if you if you win all the time you will be able to play for free for life you know you also get a free t-shirt for the winner the half an hour thing was we stagger the bookings so we would have one booking at say 2 p.m. another booking at 2 30 another booking at 3 and then they would go in to those different rooms just to stop too many people being on site and just for us to give them a really good experience and really manage the rooms and the people and the time so you're saying the prize kind of is if it whoever wins they get to come back again for free okay so that's the only kind of reward system can I also ask a question to the residents so we heard from the applicant about how they've offered the residents so the people leave it right above and you know we can see from the objections a lot of it was about public news so you know people coming in and out in a CIA area why I don't know if any other residents did go soon no one did have actually go today we had one gentleman turn up but he got a phone call and had to leave and then I've forgotten his name sorry I've forgotten your name the gentleman here with the glasses okay he passed by today and I still do you want to come in and have a look and he said no and then I realized he told me he was coming today but that's it that we only had one person come unfortunately okay so I was like why maybe some of the residents didn't go and see kind of I mean the main issue a lot of the residents were complaining about it but noise and we've heard from the applicant some of the areas where they've kind of set conditions we've done this we've done well soundproof we've made sure like minimum sound is above the people right above they don't have that sound impact how like why wasn't it interesting to go and check it out to see maybe then it could have explained the experience further like you know we've been there we've heard the noise it's definitely reaching us above so I just wanna ask any residents here if they had that impact I guess my concern is not necessarily the noise being generated within the premises had that been a wine bar or a snooker hall we would obviously expect there to be some sort of sound insulation by virtue of the property's location the main concern stems from the fact that outside of normal business owners and you must look at the other commercial properties in that area which are typically closing around six o'clock in the evening so outside of regular commercial hours we will be having groups of people coming and going I do appreciate the main focus of your premises is not this is not a nightclub it's not the sale of alcohol but you will nevertheless on more than one occasion have people turning up in high spirits coming and going at unsociable hours even people who are not under the influence of alcohol are inclined to make an awful lot of noise when they're loitering around on the pavement waiting for other friends to turn up or waiting for a taxi this is our major concern the sale of alcohol does not make that any better so we're not genuinely we're impressed by the fact that endeavors have been made to soundproof the property we understand that and we appreciate that however the primary concern is the coming and going of people is it possible to answer as well is it possible to answer can you hear me please I have I said already you have signaled I will call you Councillor actor has the floor thank you so you've heard from the applicant they've got a booking system so 90% of the bookings do come online pre-planned and so 90% of the bookings are made by online or beforehand in advance bookings and wouldn't that help people not standing around too much outside where that could have been a way if people just can just walk in base mainly people who do book online or before advance so you would have less of that people standing outside are you kind of content that there are measures in place for example advanced bookings or people are scheduled to come in and kind of leave it's not kind of five six hours casually sitting inside or being allowed to stand outside and the CCTV camera that is outside do you feel that these kind of measures that are there to kind of stop your concerns about people hanging out and you know waiting for colleagues to go in and out do you think it reaches out to your concerns give me no it's a very short answer a CCTV camera will do nothing to dissuade people from talking loudly absolutely nothing the fact that bookings are made in advance again I think makes absolutely no difference whatsoever the issue is going to be you will be having groups of high-spirited people coming and going whether they booked it two hours two days two years in advance has no bearing on the situation the simple fact of the matter is that in an exclusively residential Street we will be suddenly having people coming and going at what for us will be very unsociable owners thank you chair for my first question I'm gonna ask Corinne Holland about the license they have mentioned that it's going to be only about five percent of their business is due to do the alcohol having granted the the license are they going to restricted to it or if in future you know such license decide to expand their activities selling alcohol can they do it well if a license to sell alcohol is granted the I know they said it's like five percent of their revenue there's nothing on the license to restrict it to five percent what they have offered is the condition to say that it will remain an interactive quiz experience so therefore if you're talking about future the license might be transferred to somebody else at that point the license would have to be varied it couldn't just be become a normal bar or restaurant because of that condition that they volunteered to put on the license I still want to ask if since it's mentioned here they own about almost 70 quiz room friends worldwide and does that mean that you haven't had any experience in in UK at all this is the first one in UK absolutely it's the it's the first the first experience in the UK we believe a lot in this in this market because there are a lot of entertainment concept very nice very nice entertainment concepts in especially in London so this is the reason for us coming there and so we are confident in the fact that British people will like it as much as they as much as the people like it in other countries and yeah I think that there's a reason for us coming here and we hope that it's going to be a success so thank you within this country to deal with that so she's very familiar with rules and regulations and license conditions within the operation and within the UK having had you already mentioned that you already spent about 100k on the business itself is that what's been spent in terms of the investment is 700 over 700,000 pounds in terms of the hundred thousand that was in terms of the interactive sort of music system is that right is that correct in terms of the basis of your investment you had you had the knowledge of the area falls within the CIZ and did you consider that you you may or may not get a license because of the CIZ have you ever considered that the how the business you would run without it certainly the the applicant has not been presumptuous in any way whatsoever in terms of making the investment that they have it also comes down to a commercial aspect which isn't for consideration of the licensing committee whether or not a landlord is going to be granting an agreement for lease you know in terms of getting a license and having preconditions met and in this particular case the landlord was not open to doing an agreement for lease so it was an investment in terms of it they're also very familiar with the way the operation runs and in terms of the licensing objectives and the app and the requirements for everything and so they were confident in terms of operating they're not going to be impinging on the licensing objectives they've invested a lot of money of it as you've heard in terms of the sound insulation so that's all been very positive in terms of preventing any things but we haven't been presumptive presumptive in terms of any application by the by the council is being considered it is a commercial aspect and the way that the deal has fallen that we're in the position we are now it's been mentioned that greenhouse mainly but is there any other residential state so is impacted by that just for me sorry my objection is not necessarily anything to do with the nature of the premises my objection is twofold one you will be increasing footfall at what for residents will be unsociable time to the day and secondly with the greatest respect you will have people under the influence of alcohol and that's not what we do we do not want that kind of pedestrian traffic up and you know underneath our bedrooms six or seven days a week I think it's very difficult because some we're here to license and now our consideration is the alcohol aspect of it the applicant can set up I'm afraid we're not afraid I'm under the under under under law the applicant can set up the business tomorrow whether and that is it it's there they are entitled to set up they can open the business I mean all we are here to do today is to consider to whether to grant a grant as effectively sort of consider entertainments and the provision of food refreshments and alcohol so the business is there we can't deal with anything more than that we have to look at the potential effect of alcohol that that I fully understand and I suspect my fellow residents are also sensitive to that the issue is in an ideal world we would not want any entertainment premises that we would like it to be a regular commercial property observing regular commercial hours like the butcher like the hairdresser and like the tattoo parlor and what makes it even worse is the fact that alcohol will be related and that is not something that the applicant can in any way police CCTV cameras are fantastic but they are unlikely to stop people making noise as they come and go thank you very much I just would like to say as my fellow resident that ideally we would want a nine-to-five activity there but this kind of corporate activities like the one that we are discussing today that they attract 10-15 people who come and can have one or two drinks or you know I don't see any restriction and for them to sell three or four drinks but they they said they're not coming for drinking so we can expect one or two drinks we are talking that then there is a group of people going on the street who's coming already you know as a part of an evening you know they might be a little bit you know tipsy they consume one or two drinks they they go outside they seek a cab this is not the kind of activity that we should have we shouldn't have a license if people want to play quiz and have a quiz room we appreciate that but there shouldn't be alcohol involved for our kids who live in the area for you know for the kind of people we want to attract for we don't want this to become you know they attract more businesses such as the the quiz room and I think to be honest that this kind of business it's more for a high street kind of scene and maybe the the owners you know should have looked into that before they put us into this situation when they could bid for the first location in the United Kingdom they could have looked at the high street there are other concepts like this I know one for ping-pong where actually there was a brown two weeks ago there was a brown outside the ping-pong please I think we've heard this repeatedly from your from your colleagues you in one respect we're just going around in a circle we need to go back to our job today so thank you thank you very much for your contribution on that but I understand your view on this I'm now going to direct a couple of questions to the applicants having listened to everything really my question is have to go from this trigger on there on this one because of course you're fully aware as you would advise your clients we are in the in the CI said which does have restrictions on the sale of alcohol and what we can do with alcohol what I'm not sure you've done today is um this afternoon is demonstrated to our committee why we should consider waving the CI said in favor of your application because by granting it we are going against the CI said because there is the restriction on it so I really would like us to turn on that what you feel that what what what reason you could give us or your clients and your applicants can give us on why we would consider doing that thank you absolutely and thank you for that opportunity as you know your policy sets out possible exceptions in terms of the brick lane and Bethel green cumulative impact assessment and one of those applications for licenses that are not alcohol-led and we would fall within that exception in terms of your policy and the general operational conditions we've offered at ancillary condition in terms of the quiz based entertainment you've heard that alcohol is not the forefront in terms of what we're trying to do at this premises it is certainly an ancillary part of what the business model is when you look at the conditions there is no police objection to what this application is they're content with the additional conditions that we've put on there in terms of everything in terms of what's led to your cumulative impact policy the excessive drinking the antisocial behavior all of those which are restricted and I understand it in terms of bars and clubs and the masses of people and dealing with that we don't fall into any of that criteria as to the reasons behind your cumulative impact policy what we have here is a entertainment based quiz room in application people can come for a short period of time pre booked you've heard about the operation I won't go into it again but certainly what we have is a premises that if if for example you didn't grant us the retail sale of alcohol there's a Sainsbury's up the up the road in terms of Bell Lane there's nothing to prevent people from buying alcohol there and coming and consuming it on our premises in terms of consumption there's no restriction what we're doing is coming here and trying to be transparent trying to get conditions put on this license so that they can be enforced so that the residents have protection through there we can provide our entertainment it's a commercial premises we have we're paying business rates we appreciate the president's concerns they don't want this business or any business there it is a commercial premises we are there and we can operate so what we're trying to do is in terms of your cumulative impact policy we've put the primary conditions on there saying alcohol is ancillary we're quiz room based that's also conditioned so you can't get another operator coming in and just taking over the premises and turning it into a bar they'd have to come back before you to do a variation we're adequately insulated we flipped the entrance to deal with that we're pre booked mostly and it's the all the general operational concerns in terms of people coming and going from the premises which is a concern within your policy as well we've heard that most of our app 90% of our bookings are pre booked to deal with that most of those are corporate clientele so they also regulated by their own corporate mandates as well we've never had and Kristen has not had complaints when the complaint was made that you'd been to the premises and operating one of the residents you weren't aware of any complaints and we can go into further details it's not really relevant but certainly the police in dealing with the crime and disorder licensing objective they've considered everything and there is no objection there in terms of the hours we're also seeking very reduced hours in terms of what your core hours policy are we're down to 10 p.m. Monday to Saturday and 8 p.m. Sunday the coffee shop and you'll see that at page 138 of the agenda just down the road also has a 10 p.m. license to deal with that so we are within the premises hours that are very similar to that space as I said it is a commercial space it is it has been a commercial space there's always going to be people coming and going to deal with that so it will deal with that but mostly in terms of the actual physical exception in terms of your policy you've got to look at it all as a all the matters that I've talked about and within my written submissions but we're not alcohol led premises to deal with that and that is noted in your policy as an exception so there could be there's 18 people maximum within each room there's five rooms to deal with that so that would give a capacity of 90 people bearing in mind that and certainly the licensing authority asked me these questions as well the rooms aren't generally booked out all together or whole 18 people within the venue so we'd say about in terms of fire risk assessment 90 people within the premises I think that's fair that's if it's fully booked out actually we have most of the groups between five and is it okay most of the groups are between five and ten people and the average is eight people and having like more than 14 people in the room is quite rare and it's it's almost only for corporate groups because it's very difficult you know to together 18 people if our individuals so yeah that's why we on average will have if we are fully booked and it's a big success we will have on average 42 to 50 people at the same time in the venue thank you very much I've exhausted any potential questions I could have counts right time counts on it if you any further questions so the number of maximum people you said could be 90 but if it's a good success or day and you know what you've seen from France or something in your other business you're thinking it's about 40 plus 250 on an average success or day the 90 people has come from 18 people per room times 5 18 times 5 is 90 so if it was fully booked all the rooms with maximum capacity it would be 90 but that's not how it works that would only be for one and a half hour because you have a new room every one and a half hour please stop doing this it does not help your case at all I'm correcting a mistake I understand the numbers stop doing this it does not help your case this is this is a committee sitting in a quasi judicial manner so please do not interrupt and shout it does not help your side at all thank you very much we have a question before us thank you very much Councillor act I would like to conclude your question and get the answer yes on average you're saying on a good success of day 40 to 50 people if it is fully booked and there's 90 people in all the rooms just say will there be more people allowed for for example the next session into the room where they could be I don't know having snack or having a bath no because even whilst there's 90 people if it's fully max when the rooms are booked they're staggered bookings so you get people arriving you know at different times in terms of the rooms to deal with that so you wouldn't have the masses of people you know coming in so one group would leave they've had their refreshment they've left and then another group can come in Councillor Ahmed yeah just thank you just a follow-up on this is there any chance of accumulating or gathering of more people in due to going through a very busy time so do you have are you able to accommodate the customers within your premises or they need to hang around outside if the case of yes there's a reception area which I spoke of in my submissions where if they are booked into a room you're explained all the rules and then you're taken into the room so it's not a matter of waiting on the street prior to you know entry or anything like that people come at a designated time they're given an email confirmation in terms of the rules and procedures to deal with that reminding that there is a residential above etc to be quiet and then they're explained what the rules are once they're in the reception area so it's not a matter of explaining outside on the street or people queuing up to get in the street because it's got to be managed as well in terms of the room space so we don't keep you know various groups of people within the reception area if you've got a booking you've got a time you arrive at a time and you're shown into the room etc so it's a free quite a free flow process yeah and so we precise in the confirmation email that the people are not welcomed if they are more than 15 minutes early so they are supposed to arrive exactly at the time and 15 15 minutes early but not if they are not in that slot they are not welcomed in the venue because it's too it's too much difficult for us to for operations we've now reached the point of summing up if I may could I please ask a couple of questions to assist the counselors to clarify a clarify a couple of things with the applicants I say a couple of things there would have been three but miss tricker very ably covered one of them in answering one of the chairs questions first point of clarification is if you can assist this is addressed to miss trigger could you please assist the counselors you one of your on page six of the supplemental agenda you propose the condition of the license activities authorized by this license provided the premises shall be ancillary to the main function of the premises as a quiz room at the team facility no dispassion of course you're drafting but I'm sure you'll appreciate that it's possible of course for that to be open to various interpretations if the members were to grant the application this off today would the applicant be content if that wedding were tightened up to instead of as a quiz room entertainment facility to you for example part ancillary to participation in quiz activities which just makes it a little bit clearer yeah okay sorry yeah okay second point of clarification is and forgive me um something may have been missed in your initial delivery I know that you did address page one four five of the agenda and you explained of course or you point it out quite rightly that your clients premises are not a restaurant so for example you can't have ancillary to a table meal what what's the particular issue behind having a condition about vertical drinking if there were to be a grant of the application thank you thank you very much um do you have another question cancer cancer I made you another question we all move to summing up I'd invite um give each side a minute to sum up it's not a long I'd if the objectives would like a to elect a person or do they do a 30 seconds each I don't mind how you do it but would you like to say a few words in conclusion and then I'll give the applicant a minute offices do you want to go first thank you chair from our perspective we still insisting on the committee you know making decision on this license we still believe that it's going to cause nuisance to the residents that's our perspective thank you I because the premises fall within the CIJ so we need to mind it they're like now they're the restrictions noise nuisance and crime and disorder could cause but I would not support vertical drinking but if subcommittee decide vertical drinking we want to ensure that like no not drinking vertical drinking take place within the quiz no quiz room also reduce from 18 people to either 10 to 15 people even the fully booked including staffs also condition one to get to be included within the license and salaries means to be added that's what thank you well thank you everyone for stating things so clearly unfortunately my position has not changed at all I still remain deeply concerned about the increased footfall in principle I'm not opposed to a commercial property being there I do appreciate the fact that the landscape needs diverse tenants however the issue is people coming and going outside of regular business hours and many of them under the influence of alcohol and we do appreciate that it's not your primary business I'm not for a second suggesting it is but my concerns really have not been addressed just listening to the discussion I think you know the issue is that it's a novel usage and we don't really know how things are gonna be and that makes it very very difficult and it's certainly very worrying but it comes back to my earlier point you know what can we do down the line if things get noisy come back to us okay yeah mr. Sagetra if you anything to say quickly I have been muted we can hear you okay no sorry I didn't know you unmuted me I just wanted to say there's going to be 90 people per hour or one and a half hour per slot it's a lot of people it's a lot of drinking it's a lot of something that is not there and shouldn't be there that's not the right zone go and do it on a high street I just want to say that I appreciate all the exchange we have today and I think it's very important anyway to have a good behavior and good understanding of what all the people think regarding what we say I understand that there is a concern about noise I can understand that I really think regarding my experience that you won't have any problem with that and actually I think we have very experienced manager that is going Rachel that is going to to to work and make sure that that there is no problem regarding noise and any behavior yeah I think we we talked about most of the the potential issues today and so I hope that you're gonna be okay with granting a license because this this project is very important for my company and I think it's gonna be a nice concept for British people as well thank you very much thank you for contributions the subcommittee will now deliberate privately after that meeting ends miss Yasmin will send from democratic services will write to you with the decision within five working days it will tell you whether we have agreed to override the CI said all otherwise it will give reasons for it and it will also give people the right to appeal the decision should they so desire meeting is now formally closed thank you very much you [BLANK_AUDIO]