Transcript

Hi Selma, can you please put yourself on mute? And you can put yourself the camera off for now and once it's your turn we'll call you on. Good evening and welcome to the licensing subcommittee meeting. My name is Councillor Mushtaq Ahmed and I'm the chair of the licensing subcommittee. This meeting is being held in person. Committee members and key participants are present in the meeting room and there are some joining remotely online today. This meeting is being filmed for the Council's website for public viewing. I would remind members of the meeting to only speak on my direction and to speak clearly into their microphones to ensure that their contributions can be properly recorded. Can members and officers please introduce yourself? Start from Councillor - I am David Wong from Legal Services. My role here tonight is to provide legal advice to the Councillors. Simi Yasmin, Democratic Services Moshi Nellie, Licence and Section Simi, do we have any apologies? Do members have any declarations of disclosable pecuniary interests? Can members please note the rules of procedure which is produced on pages 9 to 18 of the agenda? The first application is 3.1 Application for a New Premises Licence for TACO TACO 141 Commercial Street, London E16BJ, pages 19 to 19. We have the applicant present today, Mr Damien Ayoudi. In terms of the objectives, none of the residents have registered to speak so therefore I suggest that members please note and consider their written objections in the Agenda Pack. After the application has been presented, the applicant will be invited to speak and you will have a total of five minutes to make your representation. I will let each of you know when you have one minute remaining. Please note that the Subcommittee have read the Agenda Pack in advance. Thank you. Thanks, Simi. Can I ask Moshi Nellie, the Licence Officer, to introduce the report, please? Thank you. Thank you, Chair. The first application in front of you is for TACO TACO 141 Commercial Street, London E16BJ. Looking for the report 3.3, you will see a copy of the application form in Appendix 1, which is pages 28 to 46. The licenceable activities and time examined applied for are Monday to Sunday 12 to 9 p.m. and then opening hour is 11.30 to 9 p.m. also. Just point of clarification, the applicant has applied for public holidays closing until 1600 hours, so my request is if members can ask the applicant to clarify what is meant by public holidays and to clarify the position in terms of what's been applied for. Four point one, maps of the venue are included in Appendix 2, pages 48 onwards. Four point two, photographs of the vicinity are included, which is Appendix 3, pages 51 to 52. Four point three, details of the nearest licence venues is in Appendix 4, which is pages 54 and 56. The hearing is required because you've got relevant representations from local residents. These representations are within Appendices 5 to 14, pages 58 to 77. And for the report still, you'll see 7.1 to 7.6, which are conditions offered by the applicant. Members, if they're minded to grant the application, they may wish to consider these conditions and amend as required. Eight point one to 8.7 shows conditions that have been already agreed with the police. That's Appendix 15, pages 70 to 82. Conditions agreed with Licensing Authority is in Appendix 16, pages 84 to 89. And then finally, members are reminded the Home Office guidance and licensing policy are available, should they wish to see them. That's the summary of my report, unless you have any further questions. Thank you.

• Thank you, Mashaan. Do members have any questions of the licensing officer, or for the licensing officer? No? All right, can I now ask the applicant to present their application. You have five minutes, sir.
• Thank you. Good afternoon, members of the licensing subcommittee. I'm the applicant for TACO TACO's premises license application. We recognize the importance of the Brick Lane Special Communicative Impact Policy and the concerns raised by local residents regarding the potential for increased noise, antisocial behavior, and public nuisance. I would like to take this opportunity to address these concerns directly, and to demonstrate how our application will not add to the communicative impact in the area, and how it constitutes a recognized exception to the policy, as well as address the issue raised by the residents of the closeters. First, let me reiterate that TACO TACO is a small, food-led establishment with a seating capacity of just 18 people. We are not an alcohol-led venue. The sale of alcohol is intended solely to complement the dining experience, and this is reflected in the conditions we have already agreed to. All alcohol will be served only to seated customers who are consuming food, ensuring that focus remains on providing a quality dining experience. There will also be no vertical drinking, no standing customers consuming alcohol, and no bar atmosphere. The emphasis is on responsible, controlled alcohol consumption as an ancillary service to our food offering. Additionally, as a food business, we would like to offer delivery to our customers. All alcohol sales for off-premises consumption will be in a sealed container, and only as part of a delivery order. This eliminates any risk of walking customers purchasing alcohol to drink on the street, which directly addresses the concerns raised by the objectors regarding public drinking and antisocial behaviour. By restricting off-sales to deliveries only, we are ensuring that alcohol will not be consumed in public spaces around our premises. We understand that noise has been a central issue of the objection raised. To mitigate this, we have committed to controlling the volume of any background music within our premises, and ensuring that doors and windows remain closed during operating hours to contain sound. Furthermore, our operating hours of alcohol sales will be between 12 and 9, and they fall well within the Council's framework hours ensuring late-night noise disturbances are avoided. On the matter of public nuisance raised by the residents, we would like to emphasise that our business model and pricing structure are designed to attract customers who are seeking high-quality Mexican food, not those looking for cheap alcohol. This combined with our small size naturally limits the impact we have on the surrounding area. We also have implemented strict waste management procedures to ensure that no rubbish or smells are left to disrupt local residents, as some have previously experienced. In terms of cumulative impact on crime and disorder, it's important to note that the nature of our operations' seated service with alcohol and celery to food and no late-night hours significantly reduces the risk of attracting crowds or contributing to disorder. Our compliance with these conditions of having no vertical drinking and restricting off-sales to deliveries ensures that our premises will not contribute to the issues of street drinking or anti-social behaviour in the area. Finally, it is worth noting that TACO-TACO fits within the exceptions outlined in the Council's policies for small premises with a capacity fewer than 50 persons. Our operations are food-led, we offer seated service only, and we fall within the framework hours. These factors make our premises a strong candidate for an exception to the cumulative impact policy as granting the licence will not negatively affect the licensing objectives. In conclusion, we believe that we have taken every reasonable step to mitigate concerns raised by the objectives, we are committed to operating in a way that enhances the local community rather than detracts from it, and we believe that our application reflects this commitment. I respectfully ask the Subcommittee to consider our application favourably, confident that TACO-TACO will not contribute to the cumulative impact on commercial road, but will instead provide a valuable dining experience for the local area. Thank you. Thank you. Damien, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Thank you, Damien. Simi? Chas, we have no objectors present and members can go straight into questioning. Members it's open for questions to the applicant. Can I start with? Okay, so how long has your business traded at these premises? For one year. For one year. September the 14th, 2023 was our opening. And are you aware that your premises is in a cumulative impact area? Yes. How are you going to address this? So we have put in, well we are committed to also put in extra measures. We'll soundproof the premises, actually when our building work happened I think they took something out of the roof and we need to just replace it. So the issue of the sounding has actually happened prior to any application and that was just more of the background music opposed to customers. You mentioned about you are aware of the premises being in a cumulative impact area, beneficial even though you know it's that particular impact area. To the area? Yeah. I think, well especially along Commercial Street, it's starting to as a whole get a little bit more built up in terms of our restaurants there. You have the Nando's across the road from us, you have Dela Mina just on the left, you have two new premises that just opened a barbers and another one to the left of us. And to the right we have Watch House which has also just introduced our call. I think we can be a staple of the area in terms of a really nice like grab and go, relax area with a bit of dining. As I mentioned alcohol is not our purpose to sell but it's definitely a complementary product to what we already serve. Sorry, can I continue from there? The nearby business or catering premises, do they sell alcohol as well? Yes. So maybe to the licensing, can we ask? Are you aware of how many premises nearby do sell alcohol from 9 o'clock? If you look at page 50, I think I've sort of anticipated your question. Page 54 and 55, 56, these are all the premises in the immediate vicinity of the premises that currently have alcohol either on sales or off sales. So those hours are listed on those pages. And do you think there's already like issues in the area and do you think that if they were allowed in terms of like the antisocial or the noise? The council's position is that there are already too many premises within the CIZ area which is why that CIZ exists and in the most recent review that position remained. So holistically the council's position is that there are already too many. The ones you see listed in pages 54 onwards, some of them were issued prior to the CIZ being in place. So if you see longer hours, potentially it could have been because they'd been issued back in 2005 or whenever it was issued and the CIZ was updated more recently. So I suppose in conclusion the council's position is that there are already too many premises in the CIZ negatively impacting and therefore further ones should be granted. Now what they're arguing is that they feel like they're in the exemption where they feel like they're a small premises and alcohol led and various other exceptions in the CIZ. So I suppose the answer to your question is it depends if the applicant convinces you that they are a possible exception to our rule by the end of this hearing. Thank you. Thank you Councillor Sabrina. If I may take a couple of questions for the applicant basically, it's clarifications actually. I'm on page 22 and paragraph 7.3 and 7.4, I'm referring to. I don't know whether you have access to that, so I'll read it for you. Paragraph 7.3, that comes under paragraph 7 which is conditions consistent with operating schedule or schedule. So I'll be reading from 7.3, it says outdoor spaces that shall be monitored and maintained to reduce nuisance. So this includes regular cleaning and noise control measures. So I'll read also 7.4 which says deliveries shall be scheduled during appropriate hours to reduce disturbance. Deliveries will not take place outside of the hours of 8am to 6pm. Now I find these two paras or sub-paras rather left quite vague and consequently unenforceable unless the vagueness has been removed. Now the using of the words shall be, that's one of the elements of the vagueness, the other is appropriate hours, which hours, so that needs clarification. Thank you. Sorry do you mind just repeating that, I couldn't hear. Are you with me on 7.3 and 7.4? Yes. So 7.3, outdoor spaces that shall be monitored and maintained to reduce nuisance. 7.3. 7.3 yeah. That's right. And this includes regular cleaning and noise control measures but when you say shall be it's kind of, it's not. Yeah so we actually don't have any outdoor spaces, we don't have public seating, we have benches but more for display but we don't serve anyone on those benches and for the display purposes we can always remove that. In terms of public nuisance and waste control we use a company, I'm sure you're familiar, First Mile, we actually schedule those pick-ups for after when we close so part of our closing routine obviously is going to make sure the whole front is clear, there's no public mess outside and then all collections will be done prior to closing the shop, again we close at 9 and then the pick-up will be 9.30 to make sure that all the rubbish or the bin bags are out for them to grab and go. Yeah so we will have deliveries until 9pm, we do have that at the moment, obviously it's a key part of our business having deliveries, it's always something that we can turn off alcohol sales from our platforms before 6pm, it's an option, it's easy for us to turn. Is this deliveries as in stock coming in or is this deliveries in terms of delivery drivers? Mr, I hope I'm not about to horribly butcher your name, is it Mr IUD, IUD yes, thank you. Can I just try and assist here and just to clarify the questions which the Chair's asking you, so 7.3 I think in simplest terms, when you say monitor the maintains, how often? Is it every hour, every 2 to 3 hours? No it's all the time, again we don't have an outdoor area, it's right in front of our till and our counter, we have regular cleaning routines, multiple staffs on site so for us it's something that is the presentation of our shop and it's right in front of the door, our tills and our area where our staff is is right in front of the front door. You see the point that's being made because if the condition, if the application is granted tonight and there's a condition then which you're offering that you will monitor and maintain outdoor spaces, no specifications to how often, it's then difficult for the council to work out whether you're complying or not complying with that because it's so vague, it's left completely open whereas what needs to work is if you actually were more specific how often, so lots of places for example will say we're going to monitor our outdoor spaces outside our premises every couple of hours whilst we're open. We can do every 30 minutes, every 20 minutes is really important. That often? Yeah it's not an issue for us, it's the biggest thing that people walk past, people buy with their eyes, they're walking past our store, it's one of the things that we already enforce at the moment so yeah it's really something that having a licence, not having a licence, we are enforcing at the moment between our team. Thank you. Okay, same page, paragraph 7.4, I think what the chair was driving at is if you're offering that particular condition the council's need to be clear what times you've got, appropriate hours can be anyone's guess, again it's far too vague and it does need more specification. This is in regards to 7.4 sorry, this is for 7.4? 7.4 yes, when you say appropriate hours what times? So our deliveries they come in at 10, we use three suppliers, we actually work from a centralised kitchen already so we have one main supplier that delivers all our food, all our product and then we have a couple of others that come any time from sort of 10, 11, once a week to, it's mainly just to deliver tortilla chips and tortillas so in terms of our proposed supplier who we were thinking of again they're one of our current suppliers who already deliver our drinks and they always come after 10am and no later than 12. Yes, can we just clarify, the second half of that paragraph mentions 8am to 6pm, is that the timeframe which you've got in mind? Yes. Right, so we're not talking about in a different timeframe are we? I just want to establish, is this deliveries as in supplier deliveries or deliveries as in, yes so anyway it's between 10am and 12 at the moment. We have to get it done before we open, it's part of the opening shift that the deliveries come and we don't leave anything out. Okay, thanks Mr Iuzzi. Yeah, that's right, our officer asked for clarification on it's page 20, licensing officer comments, it says under non-standard opening timings, the applicant has stated public holidays closing at 1600, however there is no mention of licensable activities being also reduced, so basically what do you mean by that, public holidays closing at 1600 also. That's page 20. As in the public holidays or just us in general as a business how we operate on those days? So chair, the reason I raised that was in part of the non-standard timings, not the alcohol hours, not the licensable hours, you know when you open and close, you said closing at 1600, so you're closing at 4pm for opening hours, but you haven't said anything for alcohol, so the question is, firstly what do you mean by public holidays, which days are they, and secondly, these are the opening hours, there's no mention of licensable hours, so if that was granted as it is, you could open, but you can't do anything that's licensable, going by that application. Yeah, so for us the public holidays are New Year's Day, Boxing Day, Christmas Day, I mean the generic ones, my memory isn't going to make me go through each one, but it really is the generic holidays, we intend to close on public holidays, we're a small business so we don't have a massive staff force and we know how much it means to our team to obviously go and spend it with their friends, family on public holidays, the only reason why we want it until 4pm is because we have our corporate deliveries, so they're done to the surrounding offices, it's something that we can't really get out of the rotation, it's how it works on your sort of justy for business, your feeder, where there's massive corporate deliveries come in, where we may need the team and staff to come in at 10am, complete the orders, they're usually at the door by 12 and then just close, the idea is, I mean it would be very rare to get a corporate delivery on public holidays, but the idea is that if a staff member is going to come in they're going to be able to work a full shift and obviously get paid rather than just coming in for two hours to do a delivery then leave, so we would just open for that lunch period then close, does that sound clear? So Chair then in that case if the applicant withdraws that statement I think they'll be better off with their standard timing, so they may wish to withdraw that element of it and then if their licence is granted it'll be your standard timing, so that's your offer to the committee. Thank you for seeking the clarity and thank you for the agreement on that clarification, thank you. So thank you for... Did you want Mr Damien to just do a quick one minute and give one minute to do a remark? Alright, okay. Thank you very much, Damien. Now it's for the applicant to make concluding remarks. Perfect. You have one minute. Sorry, just before we get to concluding remarks, just to reflect to the Councillors that the residents who are objectors to this application have all opted to have their representations as I understand it read on the papers without any of them appearing tonight, just to make clear on the public record that those representations by each of those residents carries just exactly the same weight as if each and every one of those individuals had appeared either virtually or in person before the subcommittee tonight and they will be given that due weight during the deliberation process after tonight's meeting closes. Thank you, David. Now for the applicant, one minute, concluding remarks. Perfect. Thank you. Before I start, sorry. You have the proposed conditions regarding public nuisance in front of you, PN01, PN02 and so on, the ones we put forward. It's just because I refer to it by the key rather than going for each one in a one minute speech, if that makes sense. We have the conditions that have been agreed with the police and the licensing authority. Yes. Just so I can paraphrase. Okay. Perfect. Okay, to start? Perfect. So thank you for your time and consideration. To summarise, Tacko Tacko is primarily a Mexican restaurant and not a drinking establishment. Alcohol is supplementary to the dining experience, served only with meals to city customers. There will be no consumption of alcohol in any outdoor areas and all takeaway alcohol will be in sealed packaging. Our commitment to close by 9pm further ensures that there is no risk of antisocial behaviour distinguishing us from late night bars and pubs in the area. We are committed to operating within the rules and addressing any past issues raised by the residents, such as noise and smells. We will remedy these concerns by training staff and ensuring proper operational practices, including noise control and waste management. Tacko Tacko is not an alternative to local pubs. It is a family-friendly eatery offering quality Mexican food with alcohol as a secondary offering. As such, the granting of the licence will not increase crime or public nuisance in the area. We have proposed several conditions to address concerns. PN02 will ensure strict waste disposal procedures and PN03 will remind customers to maintain a quiet atmosphere when leaving the air premises. PN04 will monitor the outside area to prevent any loud disturbances and PN06 will guarantee that we will implement efficient ventilating systems to manage odours. Furthermore, we are happy to share contact with the local residents so that any issues can be flagged and swiftly addressed. Tacko Tacko is a responsible business and we are eager to work with communities to mitigate any concerns. With appropriate soundproofing, waste disposal and monitoring of external noise, we believe that we can operate harmoniously within this neighbourhood. We respectfully ask that you consider granting this licence, knowing that Tacko Tacko will continue to focus on delivering a dining experience that enhances the local area without contributing any negative community of impact. Thank you. Thank you and thank you for your contributions today. The subcommittee will deliver it in a private session after this meeting and Simi from Democratic Services will write to you with the decisions within five working days. And that's the end of the matter today here with you. Thank you everyone. Thank you. Over to Simi to announce those in attendance in the second matter. Thank you chair. Second application is 3.2, application for a premises licence for the widow son, 75 Devens Road, London E33 PG and they can be found on pages 91 to 152. Chair, for this application we have the applicant Selma Balter in attendance virtually and we've got the licensing agent Mr Dilak Alagoz who's also in attendance. Can I please note, sorry members, if you can please note that there are no objectors present today so therefore I'd like members to note and consider their written objections which are contained in the agenda pack after the application has been presented the applicant will be invited to speak and will be given a total of five minutes to make their representation or let them know when they have one minute remaining. If you can please note that the members have read the agenda pack in advance. Thank you chair. Thank you Simi. Can I ask Martian Alley licensing officer to introduce the report now. Thank you chair. The next application is for widow son, 75 Devens Road, London E33 PG. Going through the report, if you look at appendix 1, pages 102 to 111, you'll see that the premises has an existing licence. This has been included just for information only, 3.2 of the report shows you the existing times that exist for this premises. Index 2, pages 112 to 133 is a copy of the current application and 3.4 of the report shows you the times applied for these are Monday to Sunday 12pm to 10.30pm, Friday and Saturday 12pm to 11.30pm, Sunday 12pm to 10.30pm. Also there are late night refreshments Friday and Saturday going until midnight. Appendix 3, pages 135 to 136 shows you maps of the venue. Appendix 4, pages 138 shows you the photographs of the vicinity of the venue. Appendix 5, page 140 shows you the details of the nearest licensed venues. Appendix 6 to 7, pages 142 to 147 shows you the two representations of the local residence. 7.1 to 7.28 are various conditions that have been offered by the applicant. Appendix 8, pages 149 to 151 contains environmental protection conditions and then there's additional supplemental agenda, these are supporting documents that the applicant has submitted in favour of the application, that's in front of you as well. And finally, the licence and policy and hard reference guidance are available should members wish to view them. That's the summary of the report unless members have any further questions, thank you. Thank you, do members have any questions for the licensing officer? So there is no questions for the officers, now can I ask the applicant to present the application? You have five minutes applicant, thank you. Hello, this is Dilek Alagoz, I did the application on behalf of my client, Mr Selim Valta. Yeah, I'm the agent from Kaplan Consulting and my client is the applicant Selim Valta. Okay, Dilek, you have five minutes to make your representation. Oh, sorry, I just thought, okay, there are two residents had objections for this premises licence application and they are also a couple, so it's one house. Before the hearing, my client sincerely explained his business idea and how he wants to operate the pub in his email to them and this will be a family business and a family welcoming pub, mostly like a restaurant. So we didn't apply for live music in this premises licence application and because of my client does not seek for it. However, neither Mr Altham nor Mrs Altham wanted to withdraw their representation as they experienced some loud music and noise issues in the past. I don't know any details what happened before, I can empathize with them and understand their concerns. However, their concerns are all related to the previous management. First of all, neither the premises nor the new owner can be held responsible for the issues happened in the past. The pub will be run under new management of Mr Selim Valta. The Whitehall Sound is an old pub with history. I didn't know about this pub till my client told about this history. I can see that he is very excited about it and he wants to keep this history alive. So this situation put a lot of financial and moral stress on my client. Furthermore, my client says that many other residents visited him at the pub during the day while refurbishment was going on. So local people are also excited about the pub will be operating again. He collected 14 supporting letters from other residents and it should be in the agenda. In addition to this, the license application we did proposes good conditions which support all the licensing objectives and my client also accepted the conditions from the Environmental Health Department regarding the public noises. So I believe my client Selim Valta will operate the widow sound without causing any disturbance in the area. So there is two representing letters and 14 supporting letters from other local residents. That's all. So Chair, as you know, there are no objectors present so you can go straight into the questionings. Can I just provide some extra information? So prior to the hearing, the applicant did communicate with the two residents offering reassurances and whatever they were offering, but they weren't able to agree any sort of middle ground. So therefore, the objection remains. So I just wanted to point out that they did contact the residents, however, there was no agreement between them by the end of the mediation, so to speak. Thank you for that, but contacting the residents just for clarity, that's within their right, is not it. Now questions for the applicant, members? Okay, so as we are here in this committee, we are aware that this is a new application being made. But we also know that this premise has had license before. Is there kind of any connection with the management team for yourself? There is totally no connections with the previous owner and the applicant selling balter. So it's going to be totally under new management. There is no relations. And the reason there is a new application, because he also couldn't contact the previous owner to get the license to refer to his name. And he doesn't want to look at ours as the previous license had. So there is a new license application without any connection with the previous owner. Okay. Can I ask another question? With this application, I'm sure that you're aware with all the complaints and the objections that have been raised by local residents, apart from what you said in your representation, what have you been doing to kind of mitigate this or have better understanding of the community? Okay. So there are two representing people and they are a couple from one house. And we try to negotiate and explain to ourselves that we are not going to run it like previous owner and it's going to be mostly a family welcoming pub, like a restaurant. And it's totally a different business and different management. So they didn't want to withdraw their objections because they had lots of problems in the past, even though we can understand them, but we couldn't explain ourselves that it's totally a different business and we don't have any connection with the previous owners. So it's just a new application and my client cannot be held responsible for what happened in the past. So we tried to explain, but we couldn't agree on anything, even though we didn't apply for live music because we don't want to do live music. They were not happy. Hopefully it's all because of the experiences they had before. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Alright. Then for the applicant, one minute, your concluding remarks, over to you. David, do you have any question? No questions as such, but similar vein to what happened with the previous application since we're not getting any objectives that are present tonight. Just to emphasise for the benefit of the public record, I reflect to the councillors that the objections of the parties who've taken the trouble and time to make their views known on the papers should still be given their proper weight as if they had appeared here tonight. And for the avoidance of any doubt, those indeed will be taken into account when the councillors make their decisions after the close of this meeting. Thank you, David. It's noted. And it's for the applicant now, one minute, concluding remarks. Thank you. Over to you. Can you hear us? Yes. You have one minute for your remarks, quick remarks. Yes. To sum up, I think in the application form, we propose really good conditions supporting all licensing objectives already. And as I mentioned, we already accepted environmental health department's conditions, too, for public noises. And there is no live music in this premises license application. And hours are Monday to Thursday. Closing time is 11 p.m. And last alcohol sales, 10.30 p.m. And Friday, Saturday, it's midnight, closing time, and half an hour before alcohol sales will be finished. And I think this is really good hours for a regular local business. And we also had supporting residents from the local. They are visiting the pub every day. And my client, they are also very excited for the pub being open again. I think my client will operate without any disturbance to the area. It's totally a new management. Under his management, I don't think they will experience same problems. So he has no intention to do live music or opening for longer hours. It's going to be family welcoming restaurant pub business. >> Thank you very much. And thank you all for your contributions today. The subcommittee will deliver in a private session after this meeting ends and Simi from democratic services will write to you with the decisions within five working days. Simi? Over to you. >> Thank you, chair. We have the fourth item, which is extension of decision deadlines, and we don't have anything to extend this week. >> Lovely. Thank you. With this, once again, thank you for all your contributions today and this meeting is now closed. >> Thank you. >> Thank you.