Transcript

(upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) Good evening and welcome. Before starting tonight's planning committee, I would like to make it clear that item five on the agenda, Land at Chatham Docs has been deferred. (applause) (applause) Good evening everyone and welcome to tonight's planning committee of 8th of May 2024. The first item on the agenda, apologies for absence. (silence)

• Councillor Kim.
• Thank you.
• Councillor Nestroff.
• Can we just pause please while the gallery clears. Thank you. (silence)
• Councillor Nestroff.
• Thank you.
• And Councillor Peake is running a bit late.
• Okay, thank you. Councillor Joy.
• Thank you Chair. Apologies for Councillor Lamas and I'm substituting.
• Thank you. Are there any more apologies? Right, we now move to item two on the agenda to approve the record of the meeting held on 10th of April, 2024. Is this approved? We will now move on to item three on the agenda. Urgent matters by reason of special circumstances. I can confirm that there aren't any late items which do not appear on the main agenda. Item four, do any members have any disposable pecuniary interest or other significant interests? Councillor Referee.
• My usual declaration, thank you.
• Thank you. Councillor Pierce.
• Thank you. I would like to speak as ward Councillor on item six because myself and colleagues have submitted a representation on this one. Thank you.
• Okay, thank you. Is that agreed that Councillor Pierce can speak as ward member on item six? Councillor Joy.
• Item nine, I live quite close to the area where the application is but I have no dealings with anyone at that location and it doesn't affect me in any way so I'll be staying for that one.
• Okay, thank you. Any other member? Sorry, over to you Dave.
• Thank you Chair person. I know I'm not a member but I just wanted to declare that in relation to item six I live very, very close to the application site and as a result I have had no involvement in this application at all.
• Okay, thank you. As said at the beginning of the meeting, agenda item five, planning application for land at Chatham docks, this item has been deferred, therefore we will now move on to item six of the agenda. Planning application for Lingley House, Elm Avenue, construction of a two-story detached, three-bedroom dwelling. Sam Pilbeam is going to present this application, so over to you Sam.
• Thank you Chair.
• So as you said, this application is for the subdivision of the existing plot, the demolition of the existing garage, an erection of a two-story detached, three-bedroom property. I'm just going to get my cursor up here and you can slightly see the existing garage on that plan there. Of particular note in this application straight away is just the location of it. Is this my register in? Just to be closer. Apologies.
• Thank you.
• So as I was saying, a particular reference at the beginning is just to understand the location of the application in relation to the urban area of Chatham here, forming the very southern most boundary of Chatham and coming up to the rural fringe here. Here is Cook & Woods and adjacent to that we have Who Common, which is slightly better illustrated in this aerial photograph here with Lingley House and then the application site and here we have the woods. Also note this aerial photograph is just some of the long distance vistas, so we have a long Elm Avenue here looking into the site from Who Common and along this public footpath coming down the application site here. Now while this area may look open, it is pretty enclosed by this perimeter of tree line obscuring any long distance views into the plot from this slide here. Now I've put this slide in just to establish an understanding of the policy background in particular in relation to the urban area which I previously mentioned. You can see demarcated by this sort of black line here. And likewise down to the south in the green we have the area of local land-safe importance and this diagonal line, the triple SI. Now the application site essentially falls into part of the urban area in the sense that the structure itself would be in the urban area, but the main insight would fall outside the urban area instead of local landscape and triple SI. This is pretty similar to the existing relationship with Lingley House as you can see just in the white here and this sort of garden area that Lingley House has. This raised quite a few contentions in the first application that was submitted on the basis that it was refused on balance due to these constraints and the cumulative harm associated with visual immunity to the area and failure of the proposal to address local ecology impacts, local ecology and its impacts on the SSI. Since the applicants made numerous material amendments to the proposal in terms of the design which we'll see sooner later rather. And likewise as submitted additional ecological reports outlining impacts in terms of bats, nutes, reptiles and birds as well as ecological enhancement measures for the proposal as a whole. These proposals have been addressed by KCC Ecology and Natural England who've raised no objections on the basis of conditions secure in the ecological enhancements and a mitigation plan for the development I assent basically just to ensure there's no harm to the triple SI here in terms of noise, dust, light, et cetera. Notwithstanding some site photos here so you can see Lingley House. You can see Lingley House here. And then we've got at the back we've got this sort of tree line. Here's just a sort of closer view of the application site. We've got the existing garage here and some ornamental trees here which are proposed to be removed as part of the application. Now this has been assessed and considered acceptable on the basis that the trees are ornamental and not native to the local landscape area or the triple SI. In addition to that the applicant's agriculture report has stated their replant on a two to one basis and this will be natural or native species as well for any loss of these non-native trees. Here's some of the existing garage. As you can see it's relatively large, detached and no architectural merit in itself but one thing of note is the application or the proposal rather would have a slightly larger footprint than the garage as of current which we'll see in the upcoming block plans. Here are a few additional photos of some of the trees to be removed. These sort of non-native planted trees and down here this is views into the sort of southern garden of the site where the trees would be retained. This would also be secured of a tree management plan securing the protection of these trees during the construction works. So looking at the block plans here this is the previously proposed block plans that were refused and here we have the proposed block plans. So the main difference outlined in the red circle here is this sort of garage. Previously it was felt by officers that this sort of pronounced L shape was good in a sense that it brought Elm Avenue into sort of more natural clothes. However it was quite visually pronounced in the sense that you can see it's pretty close to this foot path here impacting the openness of this area and the character of the landscape. So since the applicant's taken this on board and admitted the garage here and likewise proposed additional planting along this border here. So I think this does one of two things. Firstly you can see sort of this buffer increased buffer between the application site and the and the foot path. It's sort of encouraging that sort of openness in terms of the plot and likewise these trees as well help integrate the proposal from that sort of rural edge, sorry urban edge up here into this sort of more rural framework as well. Here is just some of the previously proposed elevations as you can see on this sort of bottom one here. The proximity of that garage into the into the foot path and that character area. And now for the proposed plans as you can see it's quite a significant distance now and I think this has also helped with this sort of stepping away of the hip here sort of allowing the main body of the dwelling to be introduced into the character of the street scene rather than appearing relatively abrupt in presence. With this sort of main dwelling itself you can see it's taken some quite visual, significant visual cues from Lingley House with this layer of gable up here but not of stand and still remains relatively subservient overall. And here are some photos of the rear as I said these views will typically from public vantage points not be very accessible maybe from maybe from the adjoining or adjacent dwellings to the rear. And then finally we have the floor pans so you can imagine yourself coming into this hallway on the ground floor coming into this open plan lounge and kitchen area with access into the rear garden and then we have access up this central stairway here again into another bedroom and a master bedroom here with this balcony that would overlook into the applicant's rear garden. So overall not withstanding the applicant's location within the countryside and position adjacent to and within an area of local landscape importance and triple S.I. alongside the amendments to the footprint of the building, supporting ecological reports is considered the application on balance would be acceptable and is therefore recommended for approval. Thank you Sam. We now move to a ward member Councillor Piers who has five minutes to speak thank you. Thank you it'll be very quick I promise which you're probably happy to hear. Thank you Chairperson and thank you for deferring the application at the last committee meeting so natural England could be consulted. I'm happy to see also that the Huynh Chat and the neighbourhood plan is now part of the appraisal the main thrust of the ward members objection was based on ecology so following the representations made by natural England and KCC KCC ecology along with the set of conditions the application is acceptable in planning terms. Thank you. Thank you Councillor Piers. I now open the floor to members. Any members? Councillor Refriage. Thank you. Can I just direct members to page 52 of the report please? I'm sure that members already read all their papers they don't need me to go reading through all of this but there are some highlights there I just want to drag out. In terms of the building itself and the change of shape but in doing so there's not really done anything with the original outline it's still exactly the same as before it is mentioned that it's actually 4.5 metres further away from the trees as previously stated but by viewing the scenes that we've just seen I don't seem to see that at all also it states very clearly that within the local plan which I find quite frustrating really because whenever we challenge anything on the local plan it's oh you know it's an old one but we have to abide by it but here it says the policy for BNE25 would conflict with the new local plan parts of that MPPF so I find that quite strange why that's brought into play it's also acknowledged that once again we're looking at countryside restrictive things in BNE25 and once again it's referring to a more recent MPPF when quite often within this committee we refer back to the original BNE25 that we have in the local plan from 2003 so once again there's not consistency once again the waiting given to this application doesn't seem to be in contrast with what the report says that waiting should be given to the previous applications that have been refused and I don't see anywhere here where that waiting has changed neither do I see even though it's mentioned regarding the work being taken by the local council to have their development area put into this report once again there's no waiting there at all for this once again we refer back to a five-year supply and it says here in one of the last paragraphs the sustainability of this site well it says quite clearly the site is with a walking distance of a chat and north spark and VINN center I don't find that very sustainable and it says for a top-up of everyday goods which means people have to travel somewhere else not only for the shopping for their schools so certainly not sustainable it says economically the site would boost the local economy during construction process providing jobs in the short term but we all know here we're not stupid the people that build and construct these things are in the white van and they travel all over the country most of them are certainly not vocal so on overall I can't see where the waiting has changed to actually for the officers to promote this because to me it's exactly the same as it was before the design and impact on the SSSI and Ali is still in situ so I'm afraid I don't think I can support this application thank you thank you councilor if there's anyone else any other member so the recommendation is for approval with conditions as laid out in the main agenda I now move to the vice chair over to you councillor Jones thank you chairperson I move exactly that agenda item 6 be approved with conditions as laid out in the report is that seconded seconded thank you those for councillor peak you can't vote I'm afraid you can't vote because they came in sorry thank you that's seven chair those against that's two chair the application is approved thank you what are for thank you thank you thank you it's councillor peak here if you can come back sorry and it's steel all right thank you moving on to item 7 planning application land at east hill chatton Hannah Ghana principal planner is going to present this application over to you Hannah thank you thank you chair good evening members outline planning permission was approved in February 2022 a public inquiry for the construction of up to 800 dwellings a primary school retail space and GP surgery at east hill this application is for phase one of the reserve matters and is for 91 residential units in total and is located at the southern most part of the east hill site this aerial photo shows the site in its wider context where we can see its relation to capstone country park lordswood and wall displayed on the west and then on the other side of the country park we have hempstead this plan on the left shows the red line is the full extent of the outline planning application with phase one located at the southern point highlighted in orange and the plan next to it on is the indicative master plan that was considered at the outline stage going on to some photographs we'll see this first photograph here I've tried to show some arrows here as to where the photos were taken from just to walk you through the site a bit so this first picture was taken from the pedestrian footpath access across Scarlet close past the crossing island into the public right of way that enters the site that's our RC6 I think it is and the second photo which we can see up here is once you come over the brow into the application site we can see the public right of way running down the site here and on the right hand side you'll see this row of vegetation and hedgerow what I'll point you to is this central row of vegetation that lies through the middle of the site so that's what's visible here at the top and then what you can see here is the top of some trees those trees form this eastern woodland boundary here so really this photograph at number two just helps to sort of show the slope of the site and then the third photograph is taken from that woodland edge and that's looking down the hill eastward towards the Shorsted road junction so looking again at this central photograph to orientate you photograph one has been taken in what you'll see on the plans looking from the public right of way across what will be the upper street so this line of trees here is actually the woodland buffer that sits between the application site and North Dane Way and this hedgerow here is the central hedgerow that I pointed out earlier photograph two which is down underneath here so this shows the eastern boundary so you can see that there's a fence line in place here and this is the eastern woodland boundary that we see and then we get to photograph three this has been taken from this sort of corner where the eastern boundary woodland is looking up the site and what this side of the this hedgerow is what was known as the lower street in the plans coming forward and then you can just see what would be the upper street and then again photograph four shows the lower street aspect of the application site with the hedgerow in place here and the eastern boundary woodland all of these are taken from the public right of way effectively so photograph one in this aspect is taken looking north and again when we go through the plans you'll see this is the area that is allocated as the open space the neat and the kick around area photograph two and three here just trying to demonstrate the depth of the woodland that sits between North Dane Way which you can just about see running here and the application site so this is the the existing access through from the the prowl and again this is taken from where the application site meets that buffer down towards North Dane Way and then this full photograph as we go around has been taken from Shorested Road and we're looking across an adjacent field and you can see the eastern boundary woodland here so the application site and what is classified or called lower street would sit the other side of this hedgerow here or these trees here so now we're looking at the overall site layout the key things that I probably want to point out of this juncture is the road layout so we have the access roundabout that was originally approved as part of the outline application so you come in through the access roundabout through the main street what then happens is the street splits so you get an upper street and a lower street because of the slope of the site so these streets have actually been built along the contours of the of the slope so they're relatively flat we've got the the nip and the play area attenuation pond up here and there is also some open space I'll go through this in a bit more detail once I get into a slightly closer up plan but we've got an area here which we'll call it's a cross between a ramp and some steps so we've sort of called it a stramp throughout the process but then you've got the play area here and then you've got the public right of way which remains in place crossing the site here just so that everyone can see this in a bit more detail so this is the main entrance point into the site we've got the properties on the entrance point set back with tree planting in front they've got rear access through this courtyard the road then comes around and we have again houses set back off the road with landscape and tree planting so we've got the tree line street here and then as it comes down into the upper and lower street we see the prowl crosses at two points and this public right of way remains sloped with no steps in it so it remains accessible to all sorts of abilities but what it also now incorporates these sort of breakout paths which would lead to some seating areas and what have you just some sort of areas of interest just so that you can view and not to confuse I've now reorientated the next two streets that you can see them in a bit more detail so we look at the upper street here obviously these are north to south but the upper street here we can see the hedgerow planting that's in place and what we have is semi-detached properties predominantly in this area with some some detached properties but these semi-detached properties consist of some with garages and parking set back some with Oracle parking and then we've got some tree planting going ahead here as well. On the lower street as you come down or to the lower lane this is a slightly lower density development or part of the development predominantly detached properties what you'll see in front of these properties here is that there's a swale running through which provides a wider landscape area between the properties and the road and again we see the extent of some of the tree planting so this next slide just shows the proposed landscape master plan I've just highlighted some of the aspects to point out so what we have here is the NEAP play area which which has a variety of play spaces in I'll go through in detail in a short while and there's a kickabout area here this area to the north of the access road is actually the flattest part of the site so it's being considered to be suitable A for that reason but B because this becomes a much more accessible space for other residential developments including additional phases located to the north but also for existing residents that sit on the other side of North Dane way if the play area will be deeper within the site it becomes less accessible to others and then we've got the attenuation pond or suds pond located within the open space that's to remain to the north of the site you'll see some woodland planting that sits adjacent to these properties in this cluster this eastern cluster we have additional woodland planting along the Shorsted Road area we have the upper and lower street link known as the strength as we go through and again this public right of way area so just looking at the play space provision in a little more detail this provides a NEAP which is a neighborhood equipped area for play a NEAP is designed to accommodate older children as well as young children and is sort of aimed at being accessible to children within a 15 minute walking distance so as I previously said that does open this up to a much wider number of residents within the area so this just highlights some of the equipment that is proposed within the NEAP so we see sort of the children's play equipment wooden structures are coming down to having a basketball hoop and some sort of skateboarding benches I think they're called and some mounds in the kick out area so making it a bit more available to some of the older children now I'll just turn into some sections so this top section here shows the NEAP I think you can just see the line here across here on A so it shows the NEAP the attenuation pond down here and just some of the planting that sits within it the second application cuts through the courtyard and the eastern cluster and you can see some of the ground level changes that have been accommodated within within the site and then this section here at the bottom is actually effectively the public right of way and then we come down to the upper and lower street areas so this top one here is the northern end so in upper lower streets the hedgerow planting that sits between the two number two here actually comes through and this is where the strap features the link for people between the upper and lower streets and then this third one is the southern end of the site where the plot narrows slightly so there's there's lesser units within the lower aspect so this is the plan showing the affordable homes provision within the development it is meeting its 25% requirement the affordable homes are to be distributed within the upper street and the courtyard cluster at the top and the applicants have confirmed that at this stage there's already been quite considerable interest from registered providers to the point where there's actually three offers on the table just had confirmation that obviously they won't be getting into contract until such time as an approval has been sought I've taken the liberty of taking floor plans out because it's two, three, four and five bed homes but this is just an example of some of the house types and elevations what we can see here is that the materials that have been used create some uniformity whilst the house designs in themselves create the variation and this top section here shows the affordable homes and again this is you can see from from that materials and the design how they actually integrate within the main housing provision and again with the materials and design of the sheds out buildings and substations etc they've all been designed to be in character with the main residential structures just some street scene extracts so you can see how the house designs are varied within each of the streets but we've got a nice break up with different reformations different materials but at the same time some sort of uniformity and familiarity throughout the development just so that you know this first one here is this line here which is that sort of eastern cluster as you come in and then we've got these two are the lower street and this bottom one here is the upper street now just going on to some CGI's so this CGI of the development is actually the main entrance into the site so we come in from the roundabout here these are the properties shown to be set back off the road with the landscaping at the front and the neat access would be here and then the road comes around and you can see some of the eastern cluster here this next slide just shows the public right of way that cuts to a site and you can see here the points in which the roads intersect the public right of way and you can also see some of these breakout areas on the on the prowl so this CGI shows the lower street so here we can see this extended landscaping within the front elevations and the landscaping and smiles that have been provided as part of that street scene structure and this is the upper street so this is taken this CGI is effectively looking north so you have properties here and the strap effectively here with the semi-detached properties which is an integration of private owned and affordable homes along this elevation here again the upper street but this now looks south so again you can see the top of the stramp area here and then you can see some of the properties that sit and some of the sort of street planting and landscaping that's incorporated within this more dense upper street and then just to finish I'll leave you on that picture of the public right of way through so to conclude this first phase is considered to be acceptable in terms of design, layout and appearance and for the reasons set out within the office's report the application has been view to be acceptable it is recommended for approval subject to the conditions set out in the report and also the additional two conditions that are shown on the supplementary report thank you chair thank you Hannah I now open the floor to members Councillor Etheridge thank you and I'm looking for some clarification and some advice please the proposal follows the outline planning permission for the erection of 800 dwellings with a primary school supporting retail space up to 150 square meters of community or nursery facilities but most members here either in the past or recently have attended a presentation on this site and we know that the developer and the owner does not intend to build a primary school or a retail space for this area and we also know full well because he told us quite candidly at that last presentation if there's nobody comes forward to build that school or that retail space on the land he's going to make available for it then he's going to withdraw that application in terms of donating that land and build on it again so to my way thinking this application is false because it's not there for a school and houses or anything else it's for houses only and therefore that's why I'm looking for advice on should this application be reworded to state very clearly phase one is housing and with the possibility and I repeat possibility of land being allocated sometime in the future that some other developer or other persons would come along to build a school or a retail cent or that but he does not intend to do that at all thank you Thank you Councillor Rifferich Thank you very much this is the first phase of development there was a master plan that came forward with the the original outline application which showed where the school would be and the retail space would be they're not within this application site the description of development quite clearly says this is a reserve application for phase one the construction of 91 residential units including affordable housing so that then sets out what this application is for it then refers to the original outline application and sets out the description of development that was determined by the inspector at appeal so it's setting out the the factual site so in relation to this application it was always intended that it would be purely residential along with the the nip and the open space that that Hannah has set out it was never to include the school or the retail within this application that will be a consideration for for later proposals but it's not for consideration tonight I'm going to come back because the proposal states very clearly their action of 800 houses were the primary school and therefore that proposal is wrong if it's not part of this phase. Chairman I can only reiterate what I'm sorry Chairperson I can only reiterate what I previously said that the out that description is what the outline application was for and what was considered by the inspector so it's a purely factual statement this application this application is for phase one and is only for residential on the master plan without original application it was always Sony showing for residential and not to include the primary school or the secondary or the retail within this site so that will be a consideration I understand totally Councillor Etheridge's worries and the concerns about future delivery of a school and retail but that's not a consideration in front of us here. Thank you Dave. Councillor Field Thank you Chairperson and thank you Hannah for the excellent presentation now obviously I was only been a member of committee for the last year so I wasn't around to sit on the committee the wider outline position for the whole development but looking just at this development I'm very concerned about the fact that this development is not going to be sustainable in terms of transport looking at the location you know they're looking at two car parking spaces per property because of the lack of public transport here and I note that there was a description of the local bus network but it's around a 15 minute walk away which is probably not best practice probably five minutes walk away would be best practice and the only route that passes the edge of it is literally a school bus that goes one direction so I'm not counting that as a proper bus route looking at obviously in the outline what has been passed is around the road infrastructure but again that doesn't seem to have adequate walk-in cycling facilities to you know we talk about the playground area and about you know enabling children from the local area to walk and access that within 15 minutes walk but I wouldn't let my kids cross north down road the speeds on there probably inappropriate and I'm from the plans that I've seen I'm not sure it's signalised in terms of pedestrian crossings so I do have a number of concerns about this site and this part of the development embedding real car dependency and I would really hope that we have a better attitude towards walking and cycling facilities but also in terms of access to public transport and I note councilor forage is concerns about the shop provision obviously that that being in the later phase and that being donated but you know we have to deal with what this first phase and the ability and I note the representations about how this phase is unsustainable not close to shop services or buses within what is a viable wall particularly in the dark and particularly in winter times so I'm not sure you know in terms of how this application fits in with the wider permissions given but is there anything that we can do and I've read the section 106 agreement that has certain triggers on some payments for facilities but is there anything that we can do within conditions to actually make sure that there is a real proper offer in terms of those people who might not want to use non-car modes to access local services and scores etc. Yes certainly I can pick up a few of those points and obviously day for chip in if I may send anything out so pre-empting questions on how this site might be linked to the wider area obviously what I will point out to start with is that the sustainability and the travel plan etc. of this site was considered at the outline applications stage and the inspector has deemed it to be acceptable however despite that being the case we have done some work just to point out where the nearest bus routes and links are and some of the distances so what we can do we can see the site here we can see that the B150 actually runs up north same way and there's also the 166 and the 169 so the 166 is a bus route that links the Lord's Wood area to Chatham Town Center, the 169 again leads the Walderslade area to Chatham Town Center and the B150 which runs down north they might actually links this Princess Park area into Maidstone Town Center so whilst I appreciate that the site might not have a bus stop sort of located directly in front of it there are nearby bus linkages within the locality taking that a bit further forward just to sort of put this in context with some of the local facilities so existing primary schools on site or near the site should I state we've got this this is King Fisher primary school up here and we have Morn Dean school here both schools are situated less than a kilometer away from Phase 1 of East Hill and then we can see this blue route here which is actually a pedestrian route through because there's actually a footpath here which links to the existing Morrison's Medical Center and place of worship all of these are located just off the Princess Road and are actually just shy of an 800 meter walk in distance so that's sort of the current situation in relation to the existing facilities and then in relation to how that neat might sort of link in with sort of outside the site there is actually two pedestrian crossings that are proposed as part of this one of those pedestrian crossings is north of the roundabout which will link up to a footpath on the application side of the site and will link up to the footpath that runs along the side of North Dame Way there is a second crossing point within the site that links the need to the application site itself but also to point out that the provision of a roundabout here will substantially slow traffic down as well there is potential to have that roundabout planted to obscure some of the views not with trees but maybe with some hedgerow or shrubbery which again if sight lines are obscured generally that would slow traffic down and then just to highlight the existing crossing point that we've got on site where the public right of way is there is a pedestrian island I appreciate that this isn't the safest of crossings at the moment but there is long views along North Dame Way you can see vehicles oncoming vehicles from quite a long way I've crossed the road many many times but I appreciate that they're not always the slowest of vehicles up there currently hopefully that helps to answer some aspects thank you did you want to come back yeah just just just on those crossings is there any provision that we can do by a condition particularly that one for the public right of access that looks horrific in terms of speeds is there anything that we can do to actually improve that to make that a more pedestrian less possession hostile crossing you know for instance you know maybe raising it doing something on that and can you confirm whether those pedestrian crossings across the approved roundabouts are signalised or not for pedestrians I can in terms of the existing crossing where the public right of way is the section 106 has actually got a contribution because it's outside of the application site but there is a public right of way contribution which is a summer 51,000 plus indexation so very much so that point can be taken with regards to improving that crossing point in order to ensure that that access is retained or made safer in relation to these crossing points and whether they're signalised I don't believe that to be the case I don't know if we've got any leverage on requiring that but at this moment in time no they're not signalised thank you and I had Councillor peep thank you Jeff Ersen this is a quick question do we have any understanding of the capacity of the medical centre to take on new do we call us customers clients please thank you Dave you coming back from that one we'll Hannah. Chairman thank you and obviously this is a common question that we're posed with from residents concerned with new development not so much that they're against the development but wanting to make sure that there is a necessary infrastructure this was an issue which was considered at the appeal of the outline application and would have been covered under the section 106 distribution towards health facilities thank you Peter do you want to come back on that? yeah just to it I think Dave managed to stall long enough for me to find it in the appeal decision so it was 522,928 pounds towards the NHS to expand primary and community health services as part of the outline consent so that's that's been secured under the outline permission. Right Councillor peep did you want to come back? Please sounds impressive but actually I've got no understanding at all about how significant that amount of money is per to the challenge potentially involved here please. Chairman I can only go back and save but that was a consideration at the outline application and the appeal so that matter has been resolved and the inspector was satisfied that with that contribution the health issue can be satisfactory addressed and the health service will as well because that's what they asked for. Thank you. Councillor Piers. Thank you Chairperson. In the design and access statement under landscape Master Plan it talks about providing nesting and roosting opportunities with bird boxes with nesting bricks and bat bricks where appropriate. Unless I'm wrong I can't find any plans or design plans showing those anywhere unless I'm wrong. Is it possible to actually condition that as a condition with this application that those properties have those features? I'm always interested if that's possible. Thank you. Chairman thank you very much. There is a condition on the outline approval for exactly that chairman and there's a landscape in ecology mitigation management condition as well so requirement for to provide those details and requirement to maintain them in the future. Thank you. Any other member? Councillor Joy? I'm sorry. It's Gilbon sorry. Thank you Chair. Yeah, obviously as some of the Councillors said we weren't here when the original application came forward and was rejected and then I accepted on appeal. It's just a shame that we're seeing a loss of green belt on the edge of Capstone Valley but not withstanding that. I just wondered from the application that is presented tonight. Just a couple of questions. One is about what do they mean by controlled waters by the environment agency on page 66 but also it's about the design of the housing itself. What can the planning committee do other than the officers? What input can we have on the design of the properties themselves or are they just presented to planning in that way and we'd like it or lump it into that sort of thing because I'm just interested to know if other designs have been put forward by the developer which, because just to me they see a little bit boxy but I know that's what a lot of new properties are and whether that mix of 70 attached to the attached is right for the area and I just wondered what the process is of making decisions on that. Thank you. Chairman if I can come back on the second part of the question which is in relation to design this was quite as with a lot of applications there is a lot of pre-application discussion with my officers and that would include Hannah as the lead officer but also with the tree officer with the landscape officer with the urban design officer with the sustainable urban drainage officer and there was a lot of negotiation on this to get the design right and you're absolutely right Councillor Gilbourn this is this is a sensitive site it is a greenfield site the contours of the site and the visual impression of it when you look from distance into this site it requires very very careful consideration on all of those issues. On the landscape in the layout where the streets go how they're linked together so absolutely not my officers didn't accept straight away it wasn't to take it or leave it sort of question there was an extensive negotiations of over a considerable period of time at the presentation to members I think from recollection the applicants tried to show how the scheme had changed as a result of those negotiations. In relation to materials we in principle we're happy with the materials that have been proposed we've still got to agree the final details of those bricks and it's not wood it's fiber cement which retains its colour members will be pleased to hear and I've got that on my property so I can confirm that so where is despite the fact that we lost the appeal we fought it really hard we're as happy as we can be that with the landscaping proposed with the type of landscaping and the size of it as that will be planted and the layout of the roads and the layout of the houses but this is as good a scheme as it can be for this site and I'm looking at you control waters is that right yeah thank you Dave I've just looked it up so that I can get you an accurate definition so control waters are regulated and controlled by the environment agency so it's to do with groundwater or rivers and it would require discharge permits into control waters when you're looking at ground dewater enduring construction etc so it is something that is between the developer and the environment agency thank you councillor field oh no sorry councillor peace thank you chairperson and thank you for letting me to come back in one thing that's amazingly obvious to me as well on the pictures is that it's the year 2024 but we still are not seeing solar panels on new properties and I'd like an explanation of is that going to be a requirement or is that going to be likely to happen with this application know that this might only cover certain detail of this application but is that something that's been looked at and might be a possibility thank you thank you thank you yeah I'm happy to take that up so in in relation to solar panels yes solar panels are specified to be incorporated in order to reduce the energy use from the grid during daylight hours they are part of the sustainability features that are incorporated into the homes I believe that is something that Taylor Whimpy are incorporating into all new builds currently obviously solar panels is just one of the aspects that's taken into their sustainable build there is some detail set out in the report within the climate section change of the report I don't have the page number to hand okay thank you Councillor JONES yes thank you very much Chair I just wanted to tidy up a couple of what appear to be loose ends without flogging the issues to death but I noticed that Kent police have requested that the developers consult the designing out crime officers presumably this will be passed on to the applicant in terms of an informative or what have you and secondly talking about passing information on to the to the applicant the officer was speculating what leverage might be available to improve the crossings put traffic lights in etc presumably some leverage can be exercised by the concerns of members expressed at this meeting and for those to be passed on to the applicant thank you Councillor HAMMOND. Thank you. Councillor HAMMOND. Thank you very much. My colleague Councillor Field asked me a profound question a few moments ago he asked me this is in relation to these neighborhood environments for play the play area to that effect and he asked me would I be happy to let my children cross that road and I took a look at it and it's on the bend I'm thinking possibly not so I'm seeking more assurances that one that is in fact the correct location to have a play area considering that it's pitched for varying age groups so I want some more details about how the separation is going to actually look also to consider some more provisions to support that when you're working or looking after young children season area for parents also this does tend to lean to a summer type facility so when it's raining when it's winter months where do the children go to play so I'll be thinking more about a community centre somewhere even people can sell ice creams and have other options to engage with but certainly the separation if you look at number 10 in evidence 12 it's just you're separating teenagers possibly from minors and I'll just want to know how that actually works and just to round it off ideally there needs to be a changing area for children to play so if you've got a sports team football team whatever it is you don't young people changing it in and out and out as well they need somewhere that's a bit more enclosed thank you Thank you Hannah Sorry I'll just I'll pick up a couple of points and if I miss anything obviously Dave can come in as well so when looking at play space provision oh you're moving it I thought I was doing something so when looking at play space provision there's three different types of provision that I'm incorporated within develops and development you've got laps leaps and leaps please don't ask me what they all stand for but a lap is aimed at very young children they're sort of very small breakout spaces that are aimed to be within a minutes walk from your home you then move into a leap which is still aimed at younger children and they're aimed but I say younger not toddlers sort of the more sort of young school primary school age they're actually designed to be within a five minute walk of a residential area or we're doing a home a NEAP is a much wider play space provision aimed to be within a 15 minute walk in distance area so it does open it up to in the nature of what a NEAP is it is further away for some children to get to however what it does incorporate is a variety of spaces that various age groups can play in the kick about space is purely that it's a kick about space it's not meant for games or tournaments or matches it's not a match pitch it is for children it's a flatter area so that children can get out with a ball as opposed to sitting within the play space area itself what I did mention in terms of its location is the fact that this has actually been considered A at the outline stage but B within this detailed stage as well because we did look at whether or not it could be relocated more within the site but what that actually then does is makes it a lot less accessible for the other phases within the site and for people from outside of the site also this being the flattest area of the site was much more suitable for that for that play space provision David did you want to add anything? Anna said it out very very well I think the only thing I would add and this is just learning from experience recently is that when we negotiate for play space in developments they are for the residents there but they should be what we want is for them to be open for people from outside also to use them as Councillor Piss knows from some in your ward we may have got the location of those in those sites wrong because they're right heart in the middle of the development so the residents that development then lock the gate and don't allow people from outside to come into it so the location here not only allows for the occupies of these 91 houses to use it as well as people in later phases but opens up that potential for people from outside to use it which is our intention that this should be a public public space hopefully that's helpful adding to what Anna said I'll come back to that no thank you very much I'm just again just for my own reassurance so the wider picture if I take a look at the full development when it's complete that that leap area will probably make more sense however if you just still take a look at the way it's situated is it right that the youngest play area setting is closest to the road because that's how it's currently standing all the numbers from one two three four five around these are for the younger groups I'm assuming and then the larger kick around areas escape park and all that that's more set in so you've got the youngest catchment area youngest children playing nearest to the road and my kids are very adventurous and they're very you know when they see it they go for it so just thinking about that maybe there's a way that we could shift it slightly or position it in a different way or put some other traffic calming measures in place to slow down the traffic on that vent just because I just say on the corner kids playing is an appetite for disaster really Chair thank you very much I understand too as someone who has had young kids I understand it absolutely all the issues that Councillor Hammond issues has said and they were at the forefront of our mind and our landscape and play officer as well when we were considering what goes on this site where it's located within within the site now it's one the road coming in will only serve those 91 the what 91 units it's not a through road it's just serving those those 91 units it's limited it's limited use there is also a crossing which will help to slow traffic down as well as helping children and adults across the road we would try and also to get the balance right between having play facilities which are overlooked and that's that's important for the properties which are on the opposite side of the road to look across so that parents and others can observe and be aware of what's happening but also having the kick about areas and the more older age groups further away from those properties for two reasons one because that balls have a habit of being kicked in the wrong direction sometimes I'm maybe talking from experience there but so to have that that further way to create to stop that disturbance to people and that possibility of a ball running on a road and someone or a young child or even an old child is running straight out into road and that which is why that's been located further away but it's more in terms of that observation that overlooking and that safety for the children which is absolutely paramount in our mind as it is as you've quite rightly said Councillor Amindish thank you very much just the last point so are we able to put some considerations in for like seating areas or any sort of provisions so that this becomes an all season facility that might include maybe putting a community center at some point I know there's mention of a community center but it's not actually within the site of the 91 house as well because that way young adults should I say don't want to get myself in trouble they will have somewhere to go and do more adult like activities yeah I think within the NEAP area itself there will be some seating provision I don't really have much more to add really Councillor HAMMONDICHE that your concerns are absolutely spot on and rightly so I think that there will be seating within that particularly within the children the young children's area because that's again important for the safety of the children the adults and the parents and supervisors can have somewhere to sit while their children are enjoying the equipment in relation to the community facilities that's not for this application that's not included in that but that could be something for the larger part of the application coming forward when we're looking maybe at the school maybe when we're looking at definitely when we're looking at the later phases but not something for this phase thank you thank you Councillor Atheridge thank you thank you for letting me come back once again just a point of clarification we're looking at a play area that's going to eventually support four phases of this development plus children from the opposite side of the road from wherever they live and yeah I find it disappointing there's no public facilities there for any of them so you know if they're desperately need to go to the loo or a mother needs to change a baby or something what happens to them I think that should also be included within this phase So yeah just to quickly come back on that obviously there is a NEAP included in this application within the phases in the northern part of the development there is an additional NEAP and I think some LEAP spaces as well which is this aimed at younger children so yes this will be accessible to people in other phases but it won't be the only option there is other play play provision coming forward as part of the wider development Right thank you any other member Councillor Jones sorry to belong this chair but I think my point sort of got lost somewhere I asked a question about chem police and informative I also asked a question whether it was or by implication I asked a question whether it was possible to put in a condition for a signalized crossing Just very quickly on the issue about chem police that has actually been included as an informative informative however aren't actually pulled through onto the committee reports but they are on the decision notice as and when they go out in relation to the crossing point I don't know what Dave you've got any thoughts Chairman thank you I mean two things one in terms of the police yes it has been included as informative as or will be included as informative if the application is approved but it has been something which the applicants have have considered through the design process anyway so there might be some finer details but a lot of it has already been incorporated a lot of secure by design is within the scheme already in relation to signalized crossing I think what we it was something that was considered at the appeal so that means of access and those crossings were considered by the inspector at appeal and obviously I'm trying to think if it's a he or she I can't remember now the fact that they and I'm pointing to the roundabout you can't see what I'm pointing at so my apologies that road design has been designed to slow traffic down so it's changing the alignment of the road coming into the roundabout so it's slowing traffic down there you've got the crossing points that Hannah's talked about and you've also got the potential and this is something that we will deal with as Hannah says it's the landscaping on the roundabout so it reduces visibility and if you reduce visibility then traffic will slow down for that and that's that's that's that's proven so the inspector or based on that didn't consider the need for a signalized roundabout sorry that's a long winded answer council judge but hopefully helpful Councilor field thank you Chair for letting me back in I think for me in making my consideration about whether I will rope this application or not the factor of a signalized crossing is key for me and the fact that their North Dame Ray is a pretty quick road and we're designing a facility that's across the community and I and I appreciate obviously that was consideration in the outline application but in any way shape or form that if we could get a signalized crossing that for me would really help for me to be able to support this application I wouldn't particularly advise a signalized crossing in close proximity of that roundabout because I think that it has the potential to create traffic issues once a once the crossing is actuated and the unsignalized arrangement that they have certainly inside the site I would consider sufficient Councillor field did you want to come back on that? Thank you for that I think it's really about the connectivity between Lordswood and the schools and the shops and the site and the vice versa it really for me feels that that's a missed opportunity to and could create some kind of severance significance community severance and I do think under our traffic management act we its expedition movement of people and that includes non-carmades and I do think that's important to consider and it's key consideration for me [silence] Chairman thank you sorry Chairperson I will get it right eventually I completely understand the point that Councillor Field is making and that's absolutely critical in terms of that connectivity across this road to existing primary schools for the time being but also the Morrisons and other facilities there in waterside and indeed up in Lordswood so I completely understand the question the concerns he's got what we can do is take away that point there are contributions which go towards improving cycleway connectivity, improving public rights of way as well as other sustainable issues we can give some thought to I can speak to the highways team but whether we use those contributions towards or whether it's appropriate to use those contributions towards a a signalised junction Right thank you. Was it Councillor Joy? Yeah. Thank you Chair. Just going on the comments we made brought up by Councillor Field and the responses that put in anything on the roundabout slow traffic down will actually do the job if you go further along that road you go past the larger centre and then slightly beyond there is a sharp right bend with a barrier across the road and the amount of times that cars have actually collided with other ones because of the speed they're doing I don't think that anything on there with the people that use that road will make all they will do is they may slow down on that little bit on that roundabout but they'll be accelerating away from it and then you'll come in straight to that crossing point and they're going to be accelerating which will actually make it more of a hazard he's being hit while a vehicle he's accelerating is can cause a lot more damage than a vehicle just traveling at a constant speed so supporting what Councillor Field says something needs to be done with that crossing point because it's going to be a major point they're going to the schools and going to local shops from that development it's got to be made safer. Thank you. Thank you. Any other member of Councillor Peake? Sorry. I apologise that I'm finally difficult to formulate while I want to say so I speak out loud I have a little bit of a slight concern that when we ask questions and we make comments the response needs to be weren't inspectors looked at this and they're okay with it I appreciate the fact that we need on planning not to be emotive but look quite coldly for planning concerns purely however when we express concerns and ask for considerations to be considered I'm much happier when we got the last response from you Dave say that about the possibility of looking or checking into something like I think you said you're possibly looking into possibility of road calming measures I just said what Councillor Joy has said so that then throws up the idea that maybe it's not doable maybe not feasible so now I've got to the point where I actually could do with more information I don't know that it's possible but I won't mind seeing the report or exactly what and what isn't possible that could be done to try and slow traffic to make sure that these children are safe thank you Dave did you want to come back to that? Yeah Chairperson thank you very much and I completely understand all the issues and I appreciate that Council peaks frustration with the response that this was considered appeal in allowing the principle of development of this site for 800 houses let alone 91 but I also completely understand the concerns regarding the speed of traffic on on North Dame Way. In terms of this application the inspector has allowed the round about the so the means of access has been agreed the already at the appeal the principle of development has been agreed now what we can do trying to do which links to my previous answers is make that as safe as it possibly can be in relation to this application that's looking at the contributions looking at the landscaping to try and slow traffic down we've got the reorientation of the road anyway from it's been diverted into the round about rather than going straight as it currently does the only other thing that maybe the Council can consider outside of this application and indeed again I'm referring I'm looking at Council appears because this is something that he and I have talked about in relation to the A2 to 8 peninsula way is whether there are measures to slow traffic down generally on on North Dame Way that might be average speed cameras something like that but that's outside this application that'll be something because it's an existing issue as Councillor Joy has said in terms of the speed of traffic here so the Council could look at are the measures that should bring in now to help with the reduce the speed of traffic traffic here so that's outside of this application in terms of this application support everything that Hannah has said in terms of the round about the landscaping the way it's been designed to try and reduce traffic and then in addition to that we can look at how the section 106 contributions are spent right thank you any other member okay so thank you members for your contributions I agree with what Councillor Phil said that crossing is needed in that area because of the safety for children so if that completes we looked into it would be much appreciated thank you sadly this one appeal so we have to look at the application put in front of us I'm happy with the officers responses that they've given therefore I will be supporting this application so if I hand over to vice-chair Councillor Jones yeah thank you very much Chair I'd like to move approval of a Jedi item 7 land at East Hill a Chatham with conditions as set out in the report and as added to and amended by the supplementary agenda and note that the chief planning officer will be having discussions with the highway's authority about how road safety and crossing facilities can be improved in that area I moved Chair thank you the application sorry is that seconded thank you Councillor Peake the application is recommended for approval those for that's 13 chair okay thank you the application is approved now we move on to item 8 on the agenda planning application for the ambulance station Star Mill Lane Darlin Chatham Tom Stubbs senior planning planner is going to present this application so over to you Tom thank you Chairperson good evening members this application is at the ambulance station in Star Mill Lane this is the site plan and these are the existing commercial buildings used as the ambulance station depot beforehand this plot plot here was the previous fire station which has now been relocated here and it actually has consent current that recently approved which would have a ground floor retail unit and 14 12 flats sorry on there go to the aerial photo you can see that's where the previous fire station was to the application site currently this is a mixture of one two story buildings and these are photos from main art place and you can see this is the existing commercial buildings this side and you've got the two story terraced houses on Star Mill Lane here this is looking in from to main art place from Star Mill Lane and again these are the commercial buildings and this is looking into main art place you've got one or two main art place here the commercial buildings and these are the residential garages places of main art place and this is on Star Mill Lane on this side of the road you've got the application site and the commercial buildings and then the existing two story terraces and this is a photo from Beechwood Avenue an early way which is the back of the site and you'd be able to see the development which would be just here and that's number one main art place here and so this is a site plan again this is the ambulance station this is referred to as the ambulance workshop and that being the plans coming later and this is one or two main art place the existing residential garages and these are just some existing elevation street scenes and this is a long Star Mill Lane this is the rear of the building along the Star Mill Lane this is the relationship between one and two main art place and the work shop area which we referred to earlier and this is the main art place street scene here so the application site is acceptable in principle for residential development and the brownfield site and the residential area and this is the proposal here which is proposed for 14 dwellings these five terrace houses fronting Star Mill Lane here and then you've got the remaining nine fronting the car parking area and there's a relationship to one, two main art place parking was a concern in the objections from residents she's a parking pressure and the original concerns also regarding access and the original plan had this footpath removed the plan was amended report this footpath in and increased the parking from 22 spaces to 26 and therefore is due to the sustainable location the number of parking is considered acceptable due to the relationship to the local neighbourhood centres and access to the public transport on the A2 and members we noticed that condition 23 is we amended on the supplementary agenda and that's just to cover the parking provision during the build out of the development where it's likely to come in with these buildings being built first and then it's just to ensure that suitable parking is built as that comes forward so I'm going to the proposed street scenes this is Star Mill Lane as you come up this is replacing the commercial buildings and existing buildings and this is the five terraces fronting the car parkport section here and then you've got the terrace of four by one main our place and that is the rear of those properties and relationships and then this would be the elevation fronting the fire form of fire station there's no windows here to protect the amenity of the future residents there and then this would be the main our place elevation there's windows on here to provide activation but no windows on this property here to print overlooking a one or two main our place as you can see from these plans on the wrong way but it is the size and scale is very reflective of the existing two-story nature and therefore it's not out of character with the area these are the layouts so property terrace of five are very similar so I need to provide one set of plans there but the two-story with amenity area kitchen open kitchen lounge on the ground floor and three bedrooms the ground floor and three bedrooms are the first floor whereas the four properties near one main our place there are over three stories with these appropriate sized dormer to the rear it has a similar ground floor layer and there's only two bedrooms on the first floor and then the one with the third bedroom in the roof so to other considerations of the application the advance of contamination the environment agency have requested a set of conditions regarding the impact on control waters to protect any contamination during construction mainly due to the historic uses on the site the applicant has subsequently written to the environment agency about those conditions and that's why we've asked for delegated powers for those conditions to be amended and once we've received the environment agency's response if they do agree and remove or amend those conditions that will allow us to do so once we've received that advice and the other main consideration thought of consideration is regarding section 106 the joint viability assessment was undertaken as part of the application process it was concluded and agreed with the independent advisor that the scheme isn't viable with four section 106 contributions but it would be considered viable with 50,000 pound contributions therefore you would see from the recommendation that we've had to put the bird mitigation contribution which is required to make this scheme policy compliant and that leaves just over 43,000 to be split between the other requests which are all laid out and fall in the report at officer level we've suggested that it would best that this go to one lump sum to one of the requests and we've suggested education however if members considered to be otherwise then there is that list that can be full of an alternative split so consequently subject to the applications to the sexual subjects and that delegated authority to amend the contamination if required and to the section 106 Thank you Right thank you Tom I now open the floor to members Chair I forgot to do the parking the Council's own system says that 31 spaces would be required actually knowing that area we may not road the amount of along the existing opposite the parking bays is actually used by local residents and along the advanced star mill lane is every morning every evening is fully parked all the way along that road where there is not double yellow lines so requirements that the Council set out 31 spaces and then only providing although it's an increase in what they perceive prior to 26 will cause more issues with the parking in that area I understand that it is close to the bus routes and that but nowadays even with a bus route nearby people are still parking and that's going to consider additional pressures is there any way that making sure that this to making sure that this 26 could potentially be increased I don't know with regards to looking at the map whether that is a possibility but there will be no on-street parking, additional on-street parking that being provided on star mill lane or anywhere else in that area Thank you Thank you, did anyone want to come back from that? Yeah we've had extensive discussions we're trying to increase the parking there because it is a significant concern the applicant has used census data to demonstrate that the level of parking that they are providing is sufficient to meet the requirements this site given is a relatively accessible location obviously it would be better to be certain that they won't have any off-site impacts but based on the assessments that they provided and we have done a lot of work to try and make sure that they have demonstrated this that the amount of parking provided on the site is sufficient to meet the needs of this site. Obviously there is the concerns about the existing residents who are using this site that are going to be displaced but they don't have any legal rights to be using this site for parking as is Yay, come back Even when this station was in full use and being on that station got a number of occasions when the parking space is that the residents are currently using were completely filled with staff personnel. The staff personnel were also using the adjacent old fire station land to park their vehicles so there wasn't every single parking space that was there was already being used up and people were still parking opposite that against there's a brick wall that runs along and they were parking next to the brick wall all the way along with the residents parking so we're actually going back to having these additional developments there was parking pressures before when it was fully in use of an ambulance station and actually then removing them is just going to increase that parking pressures and if vehicles are coming out and people are parked on along that brick wall as they previously used to because the parking bays were at an angle so they weren't straight on as these parking spaces are so vehicles coming out of there if people are parking along that wall they're not going to get vehicles in or out so yes I understand where you're coming from saying they won't be able to use them parking spaces there but the issue was there before when that ambulance station was in full use and if you go there most days in the morning or in the evening a long-star mill lane where there is not yellow lines even where there was yellow lines there was people parked all along there at all hours of the day thank you thank you did you want to come back to us? yeah I can't recall the name of the condition off the top of my head that we've introduced but they will be introducing a car park management plan to ensure that people are not parking along the site along that brick wall so that that's sort of issue of conflict there will be managed on the site thank you councillor Peirce thank you chairperson just to say I'm very happy with condition 14 which talks about details to be submitted talking about biodiversity enhancements particularly habitat boxes for bats and reading birds but it mentions in there that these items will be building integrated and or made of wood creek to ensure that they are durable so they are the proper items and I would like to see that as standard across the board with all development I think that would be excellent thank you thank you who do you want to come back on that? okay any other member? no okay the recommendation is for approval with conditions as laid out in the main agenda and supplementary agenda I now move to the vice chair over to you councillor Jones thank you very much indeed a chair so the ambulance station style star mill lane darland chatten move approval with conditions are set out in the report which includes delegated powers to the chief planning officer to amend the conditions once the environment agency provide any subsequent response and also the conditions set out added to amended in the supplementary agenda I move chair thank you is that seconded seconded thank you councillor bowin the application is for approval those four that's 13 chair thank you the application is approved moving on to item number nine on the agenda planning application for five ranscombe farm cottages the proposal is for the remodeling of the existing dwelling with construction of the two-story site and re-extension redevelopment of the existing porch improvements that exist in carports with associated landscaping improvements that exist in carports with associated landscaping and to facilitate the works it would have the demolition of the existing conservatory pergola and porch now the site is within the countryside the site is within the countryside such as west of the m2 it forms part of a small amlet of detached houses and it's within the designated country park the kentowns area of outstanding natural beauty and the metropolitan green belt as defined in the local plan here are some aerial photos showing the existing two-story detached dwelling from this photo you can see the front porch which is proposed to be remodeled the front carport which is proposed to be redeveloped and from this picture you can see the conservatory that's proposed to be demolished as well as the percola structure at the rear which is also proposed to be demolished from this photo you can see the same but a more closer view of the carport the front porch and the conservatory and from this photo you can see the rear pergola structure which is proposed to be demolished next to the conservatory which is also proposed to be demolished these are the existing and proposed elevations you can see what's going to happen to the carport it's very minor change the front porch also has significant reduction you can also see the conservatory as well as the rear pergola structure which are proposed to be replaced by a two-story side extension as well as a two-story rear extension and these are the existing and proposed ground floor plans from this plan you can see there's a minor increase in footprint this is from the conservatory as approximately one meter square addition which extends towards the front elevation but pretty much every extension and addition is within the existing footprint this is the rear photo just showing the current pergola structure which will be proposed to be replaced with a two-story rear extension so whilst this is in the countryside it is also subject to grim belt policies however it is considered to be acceptable for the reasons set out in the officer's report and it is recommended for approval subject to the conditions set out in the report thank you Daima I now open the floor to members Any member? Councillor Etheridge Thank you and thank you for your report I was trying to get back to the item that I highlighted where there was a request to ensure that in future terms of further extensions that would be restricted I'm just trying to find I've got lost now within the page but basically they're asking for the permitted development rights to be removed so if that could be included within the conditions then I'll be more than happy thank you Peter? In terms of the... oh sorry thank you in terms of the condition removing permitted development rights in this case it wouldn't meet the tests of the condition because it's an application for an extension to an existing property rather than a new property in itself so we wouldn't be looking to remove permitted development rights for any further extensions I think there's a bit in the report about earlier iterations of the proposal which included quite a substantial outbuilding and there were concerns about future use and future alterations of that outbuilding we had concerns about that outbuilding and its scale and those were and as a result that was withdrawn from the application so the application before you now is a very scaled down version of the original submission and I think there were a lot more concerns about future alterations of that that detached outbuilding thank you thank you any other member Councillor Piers? The only issue I've got of this is that it says and it's also been mentioned by the parish council that the materials being used will not be the Kent peg style tiles on the roof and part of the board and that's currently in place so my view is if that can be a condition that the materials have to match and they have to present those materials for consideration my officers and I'm happy to support it but that's my only sticking point on the application thank you thank you Councillor Piers any other member oh yeah come over to you Peter thank you Chair in terms of the change to the roof material the proposal includes the complete remodeling of the property so whilst in terms of the extension it wouldn't seek to match the existing because the part of the proposal is to essentially re-roof the whole building to slate to more sort of change the character of the property more to the essentially the taste of the occupant now obviously from our point of view in terms of the planning considerations we're looking at the whether that change causes material harm and obviously in this case while Kent peg tiles are characteristic of rural areas so our slates and therefore we deem that the change in roofing material isn't sufficient to warrant refusal in this case thank you thank you any other member no okay I'm quite happy with this application in front of us therefore I will be supporting it so I move over Vice Chair Councillor JONES thank you very much Chair I move approval with conditions in relation to five ranscombe farm cottage sundry chill kuxdon rochester as set out in the report thank you Chair I'll now make sure I switch my microphone off thank you is that seconded? thank you Councillor BOWEN those four oh sorry apologies first of all Councillor NANG you won't be able to vote on this because you left when the presentation was on apologies that's the 11 chair those against one chair the application is approved now moving onto agenda item 10 the performance report over to you Dave Harris Chairman thank you very much members thank you for this as you know I report on the performance of this committee and the planning service generally every quarter to this committee and we feel it's important to continue to do that and hopefully you find it useful so first slide here relates to the number of applications received and determined in in the last year 23 to 24 you'll see we are down on previous years and I think that and you'll see later slides reflects that there was a downturn in the market particularly in the first six months of the year and the reason I emphasize that is because we're penalized if we don't build a number I don't have built a certain number of properties in a year some things are within our control granting planning permission but we don't build many houses and whether developers build houses can be determined by the market so if the economy is not great they won't build so many houses they won't build something that they can't sell and that's the point I'm saying here we had a reduced number of applications we can only determine what's in front of us and we only have a limited impact in terms of what is built percentage of major applications determined against performance target phenomenal hundred percent determined within a statuary time period and a hundred percent determined where they had either planning performance agreement or a planning extension agreement so we determined them within a time scale agreed by with the applicants I think that's a really important point there the government is currently talking about accelerating the planning system they're talking about determining applications within the statuary time and reducing the use of planning performance agreements and planning extension agreements with major applications as members of this committee know and apologies for telling you stuff that you know the major applications they can take longer than the statuary time period of 13 weeks if we're going to get it right as members know if we're going to get the section 106 right it can take longer than 13 weeks and in which case the use of appropriate use of planning performance agreements and planning extension agreements this authority I think gets right and I think it would be wrong to penalize councils for taking longer than the statuary time if they're dealing with it in a time period agreed with the applicants and getting the application right which I think this authority does most of the time and you do most of the time minor applications 100 percent where we've used the extension of time again in relation to where we haven't used an extension time still 91 percent in time well above the 70 percent target in relation to other applications where we have used extension times 100 percent where they haven't used extension times it's still 95 percent against the target of 70 percent the performance by the planning service and members here I think is exceptional on all types of applications this shows in relation to fees through the year and this is the line for fees through the year so that's the point I'm making that the first six months of the of the financial year didn't get a lot of applications in certainly not a lot of big applications in it picked up in the second six months that had an impact on my my budget but it goes back to that concern I have about the current consultation which is just closed on accelerating the planning system and matters which are outside of our control so planning applications determined within the statuary time period this is comparing us to other local authorities you can see we're above the average similarly with where it's extensions of time I think in terms of it of extension of time what we need to do is to make sure that we are getting that right when we're going to applicants and we're saying can't determine within the statuary period because we want amendments we want things we want to improve schemes we want to get them right applicants will often say to us well we're only going to allow you a short extension of time but then they themselves delay getting the relevant information to us which means it goes out of that time period agreed in the extension of time so we need to be clear to applicants when we're agreeing in extension of time why we're asking the time period that we want that's needed and how we want we need them to enable us to meet that agreed time period so this is a new document this is the government dashboard which is sort of a draft dashboard and is showing how we compare to other authorities in the other 13 authorities in Kent and it's covered in paragraphs 4.22 page 112 of the report so in terms of applications granted we're middle there don't think we're getting anything wrong I don't think we're approving too many I don't think we're refusing too many but we're probably 5th out of 13 authorities in terms of utilizing extension of time only to use less extensions of time than us that's Cambridge Wells and Gravesham so I think it's we get that right we don't overuse them I think there's some authorities who misuse extension of times and I think that's one of the things that the government is trying to step stamp down on is the misuse of them and I think we get it right in terms of of major applications in 13 weeks there's only two authorities that do better than us in determining major applications within 13 weeks but it goes back to the point I was saying earlier we need to get the decision right and I think members you do you we we negotiate where we need to get the quality of the development right in relation to non-major development within eight weeks we're about with fourth on that list in terms of also applications within eight weeks we're second on the list so we do determine applications quickly where we can but we do negotiate where it's necessary and we refuse members refuse where it's necessary as well as this shows the appeals received pretty consistent over the last quarters there in terms of appeals allowed and dismissed we have our own local targets not a national target we have a local target of no more than 30% allowed on appeal because it tends to highlight that if we're going above that is there something wrong that we need to get to carefully consider the other thing is that the government can put councils into special measures and it has put councils into special measures if more than 10% of applications submitted are then allowed on appeal now we're we're a long way from that we're around about I think it's covered in the report but around about 1% for majors and under that for for other applications but here we have 55% of appeals allowed during the quarter there were nine decisions three planning applications were allowed at which two were overturned one of which related to costs and I'll come on to that later under the appeals there were two enforcement notices one enforcement notice was quashed and again I'll cover that in the appeals report one was part allowed so we've covered that it's in in in in real terms it shows as an allowed appeal but then as you'll see later the main part the main reason we serve the enforcement notice we won so I treat that as a win for us rather than rather than allowed appeal prior approvals not too worried about the larger homes extensions that doesn't tend to cause us too many problems members you know my concern regarding prior approvals conversion of buildings to residential without planning permission sorry without needing planning permission and the potential issue that brings in terms of not getting protection 106 not being able to to to ensure the quality is there and we have written to the government many times on that number of units under construction pretty good we've worked really hard members you've worked really hard the committee worked hard and the previous committee worked hard to increase the number of houses and properties under construction and that's important because for two reasons one because our housing target our need there is 1600 over 1600 dwellings a year we need to need to deliver but we are in a housing crisis now members I'm just going to to to to to to present you with certain facts here 37 is the average age of the first time buyer there are 624 children homeless in Medway there are 480 households in temporary accommodation a new house in Medway is on average 8.7 times the average wage house prices have increased by 23 percent in five years in Medway and rented accommodation even more that's a demonstration of the housing crisis in Medway in the southeast and in England that we need to address this shows in relation to completions in Medway that's our requirement and that's what's been delivered members you'll have a report from me probably in July which talks about a housing delivery test and that relates to our housing delivery compared to our housing need if we're under 95 percent we've got to reduce an action plan which says how we are working with the development industry to increase house building in Medway now we've had to do that every year because that that targets huge if we're under 85 percent we've got to have a 20 percent buffer don't understand that if we can't deliver on our housing need you know at 1667 how are we going to deliver against 2000 don't understand that that penalty against us and then if we're below 75 percent then there is this presumption in favour of sustainable development almost a double presumption because there's already a presumption in favour of sustainable development in the MPPF but it goes back to the point I've said earlier members that we our control is through granting planning permissions we do build some properties but not many we're still at the mercy of house developers and we're still at the mercy of the economy as well and this shows our housing completions compared to other authorities in Kent shows that we are doing and this is a point I make to the secretary of state as well a number of times we're doing we've got an action plan we're working to the action plan we're working very hard we grant planning permissions developers are building you will see that in terms of delivery we are the second best in in Kent on that so but we're trying to maintain the quality as well enforcement notices seven enforcement notices served within the within the quarter there are two reasons for that one of the reasons is this young man next to me here Peter are Hockney now starting with us and one of the things I tasked him with was trying to get through the enforcement backlog and serve enforcement notices where we can and we should do to put a real strong marker out to people that do not do development without planning permission do not change use of property without planning permission in Medway because if it's unacceptable we will serve an enforcement notice on you the other thing is that I've got two new members of staff who are still relatively new but working really hard and under Peter's guidance developing very well what this shows though is the number of new cases we've got and the number of existing cases that we're working through and Alison Monk my senior enforcement officer has been battling through these members I need to ask you to bear with us I know sometimes you're frustrated that you want action taken quicker we're doing the best we can with the resources we can as I said we've got Peter I've got two new offices now hopefully I'll get an empty properties officer soon we're working through this backlog members you have adopted an enforcement policy which sets out a priority we're working through the cases in a priority order we're getting to everything but we have to deal with those ones which are our greatest harm first when we come to appeals I'll show you certainly one case I'm looking council Gilburn here which was you will see the harm of that case and why we had to give that a priority TPO applications they fall within my team as well applications for works to protected trees and TPO applications determined here I'm still using a consultant I'm out to advert for to fill the vacancy of a tree officer when I get that post filled hopefully it will enable me to reduce the use of the consultant and therefore save the council some money there as well lead local flood authority this is phenomenal performance there many of you met Gabby my flood and special projects officer and you know how fantastic she is performance which is just part of a job demonstrates that then in relation to complaints set out on page 1 3 1 two stage process we received seven complaints through the the quarter four were escalated up to up to stage two because they were satisfied with my response six of the complaints have been dismissed one was partially upheld by us due to a lack of response to an officer who has since left the council in relation to the ombudsman the ombudsman looked at two decisions and found no fault but by us members there are also been a lot of compliments which are set out on page 1 3 2 of the report and I'll allow you to read those very easy people are very keen to complain about things not so necessary keen to give praise so to receive compliments just shows the service that they've received from this authority the one final thing I'll draw members attention to is the planning service goes through an ISO assessment in terms of its processes and procedures we've had two in the last six months and both have come up with no non-conformities for the service so it shows how my staff are following the processes and procedures understand the reason for them and that helps to estimate the decisions that we do and achieve the targets we do. So members thank you very much that's the performance report for the person. Thank you thank you for the report I appreciate all the pressures that you're self in your officers are under and all of your hard work is very much appreciated thank you. Councillor Peake thank you Dave for bringing this report to life I'm not a great one for grass I must admit but on page 110 these stats are so impressive so that did stand out to me when I read it this is quickly get there your percentages there are very impressive in fact if they've been any better I would have actually been suspicious it's the same on page so sorry I'm looking at 4.4 4.5 4.6 made applications determined within 13 weeks 100% compared to 60 I mean that is phenomenal mine applications within 8 weeks 91% against a 70% target again astounding applications determined within 8 weeks 95% as per 70% really impressive likewise on page 122 those stats stood out for me because when you look at how well especially the one that you highlight in which was extension time because it's no brainer really that's the tricky one where people could cheat and whatever and how impressive that percentages as well and I'm saying I want to openly say my support for your approach very bad experience as a lecturer in further education where we chased stats to win the next contract had absolutely nothing to do with the level of learning or education it was disgusting it's one of the reasons why I walked away from teaching you know because I've got a conscience I've got no doubt that these stats are true reflection of the way things really are and the way they should be I was particularly pleased to hear you say that there are good reasons why they're not 100% some of the stats and I want our stats to be a true reflection of the way it should be rather than that false chasing to look good for its unsafe you've got it the right way around so thank you for that thumbs up thank you okay thank you councillor Peake did you want to come in councillor Hamdishay? yeah just to let my support and congratulations to the how well your team are doing under such stressful times you know the downturn is real and you're keeping your heads above the parapet and above the water at the same time so I salute you and your team for that I just got one question really if I could ask for addition to the report and that is based on the proliferation of these homes being converted into care homes do you have such stats available and can we keep a close eye on it to see where the trends are going and also the locations of some of these care homes because it's a big issue thank you okay Dave Chairman thank you and I totally understand the reason for the question because there has been an awful lot as you say in a relatively short time since Offstead changed the requirement whereby they want to see the fact that the planning permission has been granted we've seen a huge increase in the number of these councillor Hamdishay yes I'm very happy to provide that figure if it's okay with you I'm happy to get that figure and that's fine thank you okay councillor Hamdish thank you very much very useful thank you any other member councillor Kemp thank you thank you chair Dave I'm very impressed with the stats you got here it was one thing that strikes me and I'm sure the reasons aren't beyond your control in your number of units under construction for 2023 you got 2061 units but in the next slide number of completions is only 950 now I understand there might be a total of time delay there but it's less than half within any particular reason for this Chairman thank you very much and I'm glad you pointed it out councillor Kemp because it's always something that jumps out at me I think I always thought that there would be about a two-year lag on these so if you look at 20 if you go sorry if you go back to here so if we're looking at the year 2018 19 on there and then we go back to 28 19 so it almost that delivery figure is going back two years to round about there so it's almost a two-year lag but at the same time councillor Kemp you're absolutely right the number of construction even with that two-year lag doesn't equate to what's been delivered here the completion figures are correct the commencement figures are correct I can't I'm struggling at the moment to actually explain totally why we don't see the completions of that number and we are closer to 1600 I'm not quite sure why that is but they're the figures that we're given but oh because we go around every site and we're given by the developers so yeah I'm sorry I haven't got a full answer for you on that I just made a good point there to me part of it part of the answer could be where the commencement relates to to an apartment block and therefore delivery is a greater a greater lag there for instant chat and chat and waters where we've just seen the final delivery of a couple of big blocks of flats there Any other member? I now move over to the vice-chair councillor Jones. Thank you very much Chair I endorse what you have said and what other members have said about the performance of the planning department at Medway Council and I move that we note the performance reporter set out. Thank you is that seconded? Seconded Thank you councillor Bowing those for that's 12 Chair okay thank you the report is approved now moving on to item 11 of the agenda appeals decisions over to you Dave Harris Chair thank you very much members because we get a lot of appeal decisions we don't report on all of them to you the ones that we do choose to report on are either the ones that we've lost so that we can collectively look at why we've lost them or the ones where members have made a different decision to officers and then we can look at that final decision did the inspector agree with members did he agree with the original recommendation was it a balanced case and so on so I'm going to report on five that's where the three planning applications that were allowed two which were over turns and the two enforcement notices are referred to. The first relates to enforcement notice at Woodlands Hempstead Road Hempstead and this was the one which was part allowed and part dismissed application site here so Hempstead Road in here we've got a scrap metal yard we've got an equestrian building and we've got a mobile home and then we've got an access road through here well I'll show you some photographs in a minute the main concern for us related to the scrap metal yard we were less concerned with the equestrian building we were less concerned with the mobile home we were definitely concerned about the access road it's well the inspector allowed equestrian building and required this area here where the scrap metal is going on to be returned to an equestrian use happy with that it's appropriate for the site he also said that he was happy for the person living on site to remain living on there gain that was a minor part of the enforcement notice and I'm relaxed about that he totally agreed with us that the scrap metal use and the road were unacceptable and he agreed with the enforcement notice on it this is a scrap metal yard that's there members you can see that that is completely unacceptable you can see why we served the enforcement notice you can see why I gave it a high priority and why we've worked really hard to serve this to serve the enforcement notice to get it right working with our legal team and why we defended very hard at the public inquiry and the appeal and we won. We've now got to get compliance with the appeal itself and that's the next battle I'm not expecting that to be easy we know this individual we don't expect him to comply readily it may well be that he does not comply with the compliance period set by the inspector and we find ourselves in court in relation to him I'm hoping not but that's my feeling knowing the individual involved the bits that were allowed related to this building here this was supposed to be will be or supposed to be returned to equestrian use and that's the that's what was previously there so you can see it was equestrian use and equestrian building so that's what we want it put back to so that's that appeal chairman the next one chair the next one relates to Port Bueber some members will be aware this is a mobile home estate in here this is a general industrial area through here and then we got home marina through here and there's some access gates just in there I think it is now members there was an approval a number of mobile homes to be placed on the peninsula down here the red line covered the access way going out to that to that peninsula what the landowner then did because he couldn't get all the mobile homes he wanted on the peninsula there is he put six on this bit here so it's outside of the application site it's within the marina but outside of the application site but right next door to a general industrial area where we have no control over noise and time of of of of activities in there we felt that this was an unacceptable place to put mobile homes and that it would result in harm to the amenities of the prospective occupies of the mobile homes here the inspector decided that although this site was outside the red line for the the mobile homes application as it still fell within the marina area and the marina area includes mobile homes that they didn't require planning commission to put the mobile homes on this site I don't necessarily agree with that decision however we thought about whether we would challenge the inspector's decision I discussed this with the ward councillors and I understand their comments to me which is the mobile homes have been placed here a number of them have been lived in and to challenge a decision and put them through further anxiety maybe the wrong thing to do I also discussed it with our legal team it's one of those cases where we might not win a judicial review we might win but we might not win and on the basis of that might might not and the board councillors comments which I respect totally it was felt it was not worth spending public money on a challenge we may not win so we've accepted the inspector's decision on this then we get to the first of the applications and this related to a site here a lower random road so we've got West Motley Way going up to the southern water works here this is lower random road through here chicane just in this area here office the planning application submitted for two houses on there members of the previous committee to this one consider the application whilst they recognize that two dwellings could sit comfortably in here providing your good quality homes not causing any harm to the amenity of surrounding residents they were concerned with the access onto the chicane area and whether that would cause highway safety issues so members they overturned the recommendation for approval they refused it we went to appeal but the inspector allowed the appeal but also awarded full costs against the council and this is why members when you're training when I was talking to you where you're looking to overturn a recommendation to approve if it's on something like highway safety or car parking or something like that which is very technical I'd probably be asking you to defer the application if you're not happy with the approval to defer the application so we could do further work maybe in relation to car parking assessments or considering the highway safety issue is there a history of accidents in this location what caused them etc etc so if we can find the evidence which would substantiate members concerns report that back to you and based on that information you can make the decision the other case would be if we if myself or the legal officer felt that the overturn you were doing we didn't feel that there was a valid planning reason to to refuse an application again I will be asking for a deferral to enable us to get the necessary council advice that does members that doesn't happen very often most applications are balanced a lot of applications are balanced the wind members balance them set different to officers there's normally a case that we can put to that in this instance we had costs awarded against us the other one was in relation to Avenue tennis club the chair knows this site exceptionally well I think you probably dream about it chair this four units here three units here were allowed on appeal this was meant to be in a amenity area the applicants came forward again for a further unit on this site for a bungalow taken out the amenity area we recommended approval to it members of the planning committee felt that it should stay as amenity area and refuse the application it went to appeal and was allowed on appeal but no costs were awarded in that instance though so we were able to make a case where the inspector said yeah he could understand that there was a case to be made he just didn't agree with it and he allowed the appeal final one relates to an officer delegated decision so this relates to an ended terrace house so we have gothams this is out the peninsula so gothams farmers here this is a peninsula way roundabout down into roper's lane here new row sorry the existing road can come of the old rectifier we come through there so we got these these proper existing properties in here and this was to extend the terrace there with a further house as you see here officers went for a refusal based on an additional home in the countryside and also about its impact at the time of the application they hadn't paid their bird contribution they lodged an appeal by that time they lodged the appeal they paid the bird contribution to remove that reason for refusal and the inspector said there were already four other properties in this an additional unit there would not cause harm to the rural character of the area and allowed the appeal so they are their five appeals members thank you chana okay thank you dave any member council appears thank you chairperson just quickly I know these two appeals aren't in the report but because they were successful appeals but I'm talking about the lodge hill two lodge hill lane applications which the previous committee refused officers were recommending refusal it wasn't actually unanimous decision it was a split decision there were members that didn't agree but those applications went to appeal and the plan and authority won those just to say thank you for for putting that recommendation forward which I thought I say thank you but I think it was the only logical outcome anyway in planning terms but I would like to just put down the record because that was really important those two decisions to protect the nightingale population at lodge hill thank you thank you Councillor GILBorne I just wanted to say thank you today for what he talked about woodlands in Hampstead as you can see from the photographs something was growing over there over six years really and I know the residents of Hampstead are extremely delighted that when they appeal and that the enforcement action is going to take place we know that the applicants and we know the sort of family that they are they probably won't want to comply at all and so the residents just want to make sure that proper enforcement and if it happens if it needs to go to as you say to court to trial because it's something that was never wanted they never applied to any permissions for the scrap metal business and all the associated businesses that have gone on since then and the residents want to return to a questuring nature something that's built on the edge of a semi-rural location it just isn't appropriate and I just want to thank Dave for the continued hard work to get that that decision made and I was just Ward Councillor you know we were very delighted that we just hope that with the next couple of years that they've gone and returned it to its former condition thank you thank you Councillor Gailboon any other member okay so I know we'll go over to the vice-chair Councillor Jones thank you chair I move that the committee notes the appeal data presented for the quarter thank you seconded seconded thank you Councillor Bower in those four that's 13 chair right the report is approved thank you thank you officers and members that is now the end tonight's planning committee meeting [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] 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