Transcript

Councillor Scarlett O'Hara, Councillor for Windrush Ward, and I'm a substitute member of this committee. Can I just ask fellow officers to introduce themselves at this point as well please? Yeah go for it Ola. Yeah I'll start Ola Ojore licensing officer for the hearing. And I'm Pamela Riley, I'm a licensing officer for the hearing. Good afternoon my name is Kaia Small, I'm a Democratic Services Officer and I'll be taking the minutes for today. My name is Leo Komabika, Democratic Services Officer, I'm supporting Kaia. Hi I'm Zina Weahthee and I'm the legal advisor to the subcommittee this evening. Good evening colleagues, my name is Kira Harris and I'm a member of the Food, Health and Safety Ms Lambeth. Thank you everybody, so just to confirm as well we have got all three applicants in the room this evening, is that correct? Yes so we have the we have Commune Studios, Slab City, is that yourself? Mr Rose, thank you. Slab City, that's Mr Lowman, thank you very much. And finally the Istanbul Food, are they here yet? But they might have a little bit of a wait anyway so that's kind of acceptable. All right cool, right without any further ado as I say good evening everybody and thank you for those introductions. This is the meeting of the licensing subcommittee with Lambeth Council, some announcements for the meeting in terms of the rules and the setup of the hearings. The meeting is hosted by Lambeth and it's been broadcast live via audio minutes and recordings may be used for quality and training purposes. In the event that we have any technical issues required that the meeting has to be adjourned and it cannot be restarted within a few minutes, updates will be posted on the council's democracy twitter account which is @lbldemocracy. To ensure that this meeting runs smoothly, only one individual will be allowed to speak at a time. If you're joining the meeting on Teams, which we all are, as I said earlier please ensure your microphone is muted and that your name is clearly visible for us all to see. Any person speaking must be permitted to finish what they're saying without interruption and if I request an individual to stop speaking they should do so immediately. Interruptions may result in you being disconnected from this meeting. Members of the public are welcome to record or tweet the public proceedings as well during the course of the meeting. And finally please note that the subcommittee will notify interested parties of its decisions on each application within five working days. That takes us from item one on the agenda. Item number two, declarations of interest. Do councillors have any declarations of interest on the three hearings that we have tonight? I'm seeing no, no, none from me either. The minutes of the last meeting which were in our packs that we have received, there was no other edits for me. I know there was one for you Councillor Gordon, but I think we've kind of covered that in the pre-meet. So yeah, so minutes are agreed. Thank you. Yep, sorry, yes. So licensing applications. So we've got three this evening and we're going to do in this order and the order as follows. We're going to start with Commune Studios, then Lowman Foods Limited and then Istanbul Foodgate. So do I have the officer to introduce for the first application for Commune Studios please? Thank you Chair. This is an application for a new premises license submitted by Commune Studios Limited. The application seeks to authorize to permit the licensable activity of sale of alcohol for consumption on the premises on Thursday, 1800 hours to 2300 hours, Friday and Saturday 1800 hours to 0300 hours and Sunday 1200 hours to 2300 hours. Late night refreshment on and off the premises Friday and Saturday 2300 hours to three o'clock in the morning and recorded music Friday and Saturday 2300 hours to 3 a.m in the morning. For the applicant we have Reece John Rose who is the operations director, Luca Marcell and Jayesh Dasani who are both directors for the company. For the objectors we have Claire Kahn. There were four representations received on this application and three were from residents and one from the licensing authority. The application and plank can be found on page 25 to 34 of the report. The final agreed conditions can be found on page 37 to 39 of the report and the objections can be found on pages 41 to 43 of the report. That concludes my introduction. Thanks Pam. I should also state at this point I think that we had received a document that was kind of delivered via email yesterday. Now that has kind of landed in our which was from the applicant with a bit more kind of background on context. That has been received quite last minute so I'm afraid we're not able to consider the paperwork that's from that when it comes to this hearing. However we would allow you to expand on it verbally during the course of this evening because I think there'll be stuff in there that the committee would be interested in hearing from. So on that basis Mr Rose I'm going to come to you first. You've got up to five minutes just to speak on behalf of your applicants. Thank you. Thank you very much. We've been introduced already so you've got our names. I apologize for the late delivery of the paperwork I just moved in offices. I'm going to read out the paperwork basically if you're saying that you've not had it. I'm not going to read out the staff handbook that's just 23 pages of how we train our staff and how we control things evidence in WAVE and ask for answer and stuff. I'm not going to read out the dispersal policy but it's a dispersal policy detail in how we would control the close down at the end of the night. If you would need me to do that later in the hearing part of the questions I can go over that in more detail. Thanks for the agenda pack outlining all the application representations and summary. This is an update of the conditions and actions we've taken so far. We've conducted extensive due diligence in our search for a suitable property. We've been fully committed to finding the right property ensuring it aligns with our business model and that our operations align with community expectations and regulatory requirements. Over the past year we have viewed numerous properties to find the right fit for our new start-up business model. For our business to be successful we needed a property that meets specific criteria ease of access, good transport links, a suitable distance from residential properties, flexible hours around other local businesses, adequate structural condition for soundproofing and internal design flexibility within our budget, availability of necessary utilities in sight and appropriate lease terms and fees. We believe this property is by far the best suited to match these criteria. Just to update you on the activities that we intend to carry out is that during the week we will be looking to booking film and photo shoots, health and wellness activities such as yoga, fitness, boot camp and sound healing and offer the space as a rehearsal location. We've got every intention of supporting the local community in any way possible and look forward to hosting their activities and events. We don't feel that the definition of nightclub is particularly correct for the activity that we are taking. We're hoping to provide a well-done rest space that allows small grassroots live and electronic events to have a place to incubate before they get bigger and move to larger spaces. It's kind of essential for our business model as well that we have the flexibility to run through the light industrial, the leisure and the event side of things to have multiple income streams so that we don't fail. We are not going to be operating seven days a week as you heard. I just wanted to mention I think in Pam's introduction she said six o'clock until three o'clock on Saturday as well which isn't correct. The timings are 1800 300 on Thursday, 1800 to 0 300 on Friday, 12 o'clock to 0 300 on Saturday and 0 800 to 2300 on Sunday. The times were carefully considered to respect the opening times of existing businesses by operating any licensable activity outside of their core hours. We'd like to reiterate the fact that we're not planning to open all of the hours applied for every week only pre-open events as a destination location and as such we're not aiming to attract any walk-up trade or be pitching for it so we won't be putting a sign above the door and opening every single day just to clarify that statement. The framework hours in your statement of licensing policy refer to the location as ones with road shopping parade and the representation made by the licensing department against the application is working under the assumption that it's nightclub. As we've just said we don't really feel that that necessarily fits with us and the fact that it says it's ones with shopping parade also suggests that the activities that we've applied for don't fit in with your license and policy statement. That said we just want to remind you that I've got 24 years experience running venues and events and over 5,000 events basically and that we've basically taken pre-application consultation and had site visits with the police and with that resulted in pre-agreed conditions and support from Dave Watson and the police team for the timings and activities requested based on the conditions being sufficient to control their concerns. During the consultation period we opened clear and transparent talks with the other Lambeth responsible authorities and agreed on the additional conditions with the environmental health team to satisfy their concerns resulting in their support for our applied for activities and times. Our plan is that all licensed event bookings will operate outside of the standard business hours to minimize the description to other businesses. The property was geographically selected to avoid causing a nuisance to nearby residents of businesses and were committed to managing the yard area from the gates to the art of student licensable activities to ensure smooth operations and minimal disruption. We'll have stewards and security as required by risk assessment to monitor the arrival of attendees regularly patrolling the private road to ensure they go straight to our premises and do not go near any of the neighbour's properties. The location of the entry door and smoking area is 110 meters from the kerbside on ones with road down a gated private business estate road making it a considerable distance from the ones with shopping road parade and any local residents. There was a map included down in that document and basically I could share it with you but we're about we're 100 meters into an industrial section of Lambeth in that corner so to the east of the railway arches and surrounding us we have car mechanics and things in the arches down towards the road and then there's a recycling centre directly next to us on the next road over there are other small light industrial businesses on the rear of the shopping parade to the north of ones with road then there's the big yellow self storage b&w battery there is the royal mail sorting office and an amazon warehouse and they're all in between us and local residents on that side of it. The railway arch could give another minute Mr Rose if that's okay yeah I mean it's unfortunate you've not had a chance to read this but the railway arch across next to us they split which provides an excellent soundproofing from the residents to the west in Wandsworth. We've done initial testing and we've begun the installation of a multi-layer multi-material soundproofing wall at the front but the conditions that we've agreed with the environmental health team mean that by the time we've finished that there will be a limiter and a sound report that makes sure that we don't cause any noise nuisance for any local residents. Yeah I'm trying to summarize this last page. With regards to planning we've engaged another company Paul Tunstall JWPC to deal with the planners to alter this permission which is not actually a change of use it's just a document on permission and it's above it's above the level that I understand planning so I don't really think I can answer any more questions on that and we've changed out the local businesses and talked to them in the adjacent arches to try and let them know and reassure them that we're not going to cause them a problem as part of our operations. As I said the other documents that were attached with the staff handbook and the dispersal policy Dave in particular said that he thought that he would be happy to support us until 3 a.m because you were having issues with UMEs and licensing events in the local area and by by us providing us a well-managed license premises we might actually be able to reduce the number of those by providing a space for them to take place legally and we do management and conditioning. Okay I'm gonna ask you to I think that's probably it for the minute because I didn't get enough time for that document. Thank you and appreciate that you know and just to reassure you know I think we're very familiar with the area and the kind of setup of the location as it borders my ward where I represent and yeah so don't rest assured that we know that we're familiar with the location but thank you for that. Committee I'm going to throw over to you but to dive in with a couple of questions shall I? Adrian. Yeah before I get on to my main ones just a matter of detail about the hours are you saying Friday are you saying Saturday is 18 to 3 or 12 to 3 and Sunday is it 12 to 3 or 8 sorry is it clarify the hours? Yeah this is in my page I'm just going to see if I can find you Justin's report on the agenda pack. Well it's page 20 is it are they right? Just trying to get back to it. Yeah page 20 they're correct on page 20 so it's 12 to 3 on Saturday 8 but that wasn't what was said in the introduction. Okay right that might have been a mistake. Right on to my main questions then that covers the first one. The two areas I'm concerned about are the noise and the exiting onto Wandsworth Road both of which you have alluded to but I just want to push them a bit. You've described what happens on the industrial side with the post office and all that. On the other side where the green is there's a tall block now what is stopping noise getting up onto the tall tower block? Which may mean you've got to clarify what you're doing on that shutter on that side how you whether that's the one you're soundproofing that's one question. The other question is and you've also got on about it and I think you describe it in your dispersal policy I want to know more about how you're escorting people in and out along that long path especially debouching them onto Wandsworth Road as they all go out to make sure they don't hang around after and smoke and urinate and all that and that they don't disturb the or break into the existing premises along the hundred metres of path all the way into it if you followed all that. All right we'll take these ones and then I'll come back to you Scarlett. Okay so just basically the dispersal policy is a draft which I've sent over to the police already. The police recognise my experience in managing events and venues now I've run 32,000 capacity festival sites and done over 500 temporary event notices spent eight years winning student unions and many years winning nightclubs. I have an excellent commitment to keeping up good relationships with local responsible authorities and ensuring the delivery of the things that I've said I've done so it's not just like written down basically it's actually acted on. As the DPS and the license holder we recognise that these concerns are all completely valid the actual the actions for the dispersal policy would be that the sign is prominently displayed at exits asking patrons to respect the needs of local residents businesses and leave the area quietly. Last orders will be called 15 minutes before service stops at any event to make customers aware that we are closing. When time is called all music would sink, house lights would be turned on, staff would leave the service area, begin cleaning, glass collecting in the customers areas and engage with customers to let them know they have 20 minutes cooling down time and to finish off their drinks encouraging customers to plan their transporters when necessary. So I'm just going to jump in I don't please don't be just relaying repeating the pages to us I think we think there were very specific questions I think Councillor Gardiner was trying to tease out a little bit more not just refer to the document. I mean this is how it's going to be controlled basically at the end of the night there will be a staged approach to closing down the venue which will be time called then 15 minutes lights on 20 minutes while we're talking to the customers encouraging them how to get home at the end of that 20 minutes we'll ask people to drink up we'll invite people to stay in the premises to wait for taxis before walking down to the end of the road the security team will not leave until the venue and the road is clear and we will escort people down to the end of the street. We will make sure that everything is all tidied up and the road has been cleaned and cleared back up to our premises and we won't allow people to congregate outside that the team and the manager will take that on a daily basis. That's a quick summary of it also if people need specific assistance we'll help them figure out their transport plan because we will know the night buses, the routes and the best way to get them onwards. Is that a better way for me to approach it? I mean I'll think about it but that's a good answer. Yeah because mine follows on from Adrian's. I think I can speak for Councillor Gardner but I'm sure he'll tell me if I've got it wrong but we were concerned about people exiting the site, their safety as well as urination and hanging around and potentially interfering with the other businesses in that area, in that sort of closed off area from the road but also the safety of people leaving. So I'm thinking about lighting, I'm thinking about the number of security that would be on site in that passageway, in that walkway, how you get people from your venue onto the road safely and ensure particularly of women or people who are drunk that you make sure that they get themselves off site and on their homeward journey safely. Thank you. Yeah I mean that's kind of covered in what I said before. The staff handbook covers our wellness and vulnerable engagements policy for staff training and ask for Angela in the details of how all of that works. We are also looking at violence and VAWG, the Violence Against Women and Girls training and we'll be discussing this with Dave Watson from the police. Dave has looked at this and put the first 20 conditions that are on page 37 are from Met Police in order to help us make sure that we're managing this correctly. So the number of security is in there I think on condition 15 as deemed appropriate by the police and we would proactively be taking our duty of care seriously. If somebody looks drunk we'll give them water, we'll look after them, you know we will provide welfare and make sure that they get home safe. I was trained in licensing in the student union environment and I have taken very seriously my duty of care responsibility for the last 20 years. I've been dealing with this because it's more required in that environment for a lot longer than it has become a thing in the mainstream and I believe that I'm a leader in delivering safe and sensible events with people being looked after correctly. Okay do you want to go on the sound insulation point as well please Mr Rose? Yes no problem. So arch 657 doesn't have a shutter facing those buildings on that side, it's only at the end of the alleyway on the east side. It's the first railway arch where the train tracks split like this so we're on already the side with the private road. Does that make sense? I defer to Councillor Robson on that, does that sound right to you? I mean I think I know what you mean yeah but yeah but I mean I'm interested here. Basically basically the train tracks split this first arch where the train tracks are split which means that we've got the high level railway arch where it's split is actually more sound insulation between us and those premises on that side. We've done preliminary walk-around tests but that was during the daytime with the sound system on extremely loud in that arch to try and see if we could hear anything anywhere but at a regular time of day it's completely masked by everything that's going on. We will conduct the acoustic testing required in the conditions by condition 28 I think is saying that we will do an acoustic test and then have the limiter set with the environmental health team in conjunction with Lambeth council. We've already invested about five thousand pounds in a multi-layer multi-material soundproofing wall in the arch on the east side which faces towards the private road and we genuinely understand that if we do not get that right and we get noise complaints our business will fail and all of this investment will be for nothing. Just before I come over to you Scott I just want to jump in then as well because as we've outlined it's a very different nature of business for that area I think historically and it's ambitious. I suppose I'd just like to hear a bit more of you know could you tell us a bit more about what's going to happen in those spaces. I know you've mentioned briefly about yoga and such as well and venue hire but just a little bit more context about who it is you'd be expecting to come down there and also what's the capacity of the venue because just to highlight if say you've got 150 people or so on a Saturday night coming up to what is a very narrow piece of road at Wandsworth road station and people kind of spill out you know I suppose that yeah just something again about what so something about capacity people crowd control and just a little bit of background about some of the yeah some of the type of nights that would be happening. Capacity at the moment I think is going to settle around about 160 when we've got the when we've got the final assessment back from the fire assessor who's talking to the fire brigade about it so it is around the number that you're talking about. With my 25 years of experience in running events like this the ones that finish later in the evening there tends to be a general dispersal over the period anyway and the fact that we have the dispersal policy where we hold people off and let them wait in the venue until their vehicles have arrived to book taxis give people advice on how to do it means that there will naturally be from stopping of the music around about half an hour for people to disperse in a more measured manner rather than there being 150 still out all in one go. I would expect that probably up to a third of people to have left anyway on a later night at 11 pm I'm not as concerned because they can come out and basically go and get straight on a normal transport but we would obviously still operate the same dispersal policy. So what you're envisioning there would be more taxis at the end of the gate because of course the gates usually closed isn't it? But we would have access we would have a key so we would have we'd be able to manage that gate to be a member of security for soft ticket checking at the gate and one at the door which is how we would control the alleyway. And just for clarification then would you anticipate cars waiting on the Wandsworth Road for customers or driving in? I would anticipate as when when people have booked their cab they come out of the front and get collected at Wandsworth Road underneath the railway bridge. So it's quite a congested piece of road isn't it? I mean it's not it's not the smallest piece of road that I've ever been to. I didn't know whether they would legally be allowed it's legally the right word if they would be allowed to drive down in front of the club basically that's what I suppose. The turning space inside of the private road I have based on experience of having done other other venues like this I feel is insufficient and would cause more of a problem more honking people getting stuck coming up and down that private road. I think that it's totally inappropriate to try and bring vehicles into the road and directly on them on the main road is the safest and most sensible option. Thank you. Did you want more about the weekday business? Just in general you know and the club you know just what it was because to go for it I'm really intrigued you know how does it go from what was this very industrial space to all of a sudden this quite creative space? Yeah I'm really wanting to answer that. I think so during the week we're really aiming for the for a mixed type of use that's going to be majority in the day and it's going to be you know not hundreds of people we're going to be talking more like studio and recording use because we're spending this money on sound treating it's going to be a good sounding space so you know bands or orchestras or that kind of thing are going to really benefit from the from the acoustic treatment we're doing. We've already had inquiries for things like baby showers weddings and that kind of thing and then on the weekends I imagine it's going to be once or twice a week to start with we're going to have promoters who are coming as a destination venue so just to be clear these are the events that we're talking about which are the the ones involving license for activities they're going to be less frequent it's going to be a destination space so as opposed to a traditional like nightclub or whatever where you're basically trying to get people to come to the door pay for that for their ticket or entry on the door and then you know dealing with it all there and you don't really know who's coming instead we're going to be you know vetting the promoter ahead of time because obviously we don't we're protecting of our own space we want to make sure we're getting the right type of promoter in and then they will be selling all of their tickets ahead of time so that basically anyone who's coming knows knows where they're coming to ahead of the night and how to get home so they'll have time not only to plan their travel and everything but it also prevents us from getting just like unwanted you know traffic like we'll be able to basically stay at the front the the security at the at the gate for instance we'll basically be able to ask what event you come in here for if they if they don't know why they're there or if they don't know the right event then obviously we're just not going to let them in at all so we can manage that that space a little bit more effectively in my mind but yeah I just want to emphasize like we're I genuinely I mean from the business board from the financial forecast we've made we have to make this a multi-purpose space for it to be something that's going to thrive in the long term so yeah I would just thank you scarlet and then I will look at maybe wrapping up this bit before we move on to is is it miss mrs khan so hold scarlet I'll come back over to you and then I think I had one other question yeah thanks david yeah thank you for um my question was going to be to give us some examples of the sorts of events you thought you you might be putting on especially at the weekends until potentially 3 a.m um because you did say or mr roves said in his introduction that he thought they might be replacing some of the unlicensed music events and that isn't what you're describing you're saying something a bit more managed so I think you maybe need to think about that because those are two to me those are very different experiences very very different so you're you're don't interrupt please hang on clarify you're saying you wouldn't you wouldn't be selling tickets on the door basically the idea is that the the tickets would all be sold online for the events in advance of the events and the discussion about unlicensed music events was actually from dave watson saying that he thought that providing the space for the kind of people that are putting events on in studios without licenses might actually help the area that was something that dave said basically that which i think is in relation to some of the things locally uh that might just yeah which yeah i can see why dave might say that um my final question then i think we're going to bring claire and then unless there was any other any other from the committee anyone go on go on adrian oh just quick i'm still worried about the people in the top half of the tower block well this was going to be where i was going to come in as well i was interested to know then what what community engagement has been done with the residents of the westbury because i that is a very key estate and then whilst and i think you know the application for this premises license not many people would have seen it due to the location of where it is so i suppose just to you know if it's going to be this multi-purpose space that the residents are surely going to get involved with i just wondered what community engagement has been done with the residents of westbury and the surrounding area we haven't actually started engaging with any of the residents actually haven't finished treating the space we wanted to get it actually to a standard where it was something that we could show that could be of benefit um it was so the read the reason for choosing this arch is is because of the addition like when you're underneath the railway arch the sound is not escaping above you the weight of the material prevents it going that way it's the two ends that are the weak points to the west end facing the guys in the in the tower blocks we have another whole double height double track railway that has taken off that side as part of the noise absorption um and we've all like we're working towards getting the sound treatment within the arch to a level where the sound is good and the soundproofing to a level where the uh report that we have and the settings that are put into the limiter will prevent the being nuisance so once once all this is finished and we have something to show the people we're definitely going to be reaching out to the local residents to see what what services we can provide basically the the larger number of income streams that we can bring into the space the better it is for us but showing off a half finished product is not something that that i really want to do okay thank you mr rose did that cover it adrian or did you want that all right so unless there's any other questions for the applicants i'm going to invite us to move on and to uh interested parties uh so i believe that's yourself uh sorry is it miss con or mrs con it's mrs mrs con thank you very much for confirming so you've got up to five minutes as well and if i may check can i speak before the rest yes so have i have i completely cut you off oh yeah yeah you seem to have i'm so sorry that's all yeah all are representing the licensing authority the the the objection our main objection is with regards to the hours i know the applicant and the area have been not considered to be appropriate for a nightclub i know the applicant has said they're not a nightclub but then if a venue is providing artists promoter to be at the venue playing music and patrons to be there to me it sounds as a nightclub and there's nothing wrong if you want to be an actor we just want to be make sure that mitigating factors are in place to make sure residents in the area are not disturbed from the operation of the of the of your premises and then one of the things i think we've also said i think on if i may bring you back to the application because there seems there may be an anomaly on the report because you've said on saturday from your application uh the hours is from 12 p 12 p.m is that correct yeah okay on the report it says 1800 hours i think we need to note that just to say there's an anomaly what which will need to be amended yeah i mean it's it's correct on the application and on that page was it page 20 that we will it is page 20 yeah yeah on page 20 it's yeah friday yet our opening hours is 12 p.m but sale of alcohol i think yeah sale of alcohol is 1800 so that would need to be amended on page 20 i don't see that uh page 20 sale of alcohol yeah 18 203 oh yeah yeah on thursday yeah so basically on page 29 yeah 29 is fine which is the application form basically application form says 12 till till three yeah so on page 20 should be friday 12 18 to 3 saturday 12 to 3 oh i see it's correct on the application form right 129 right okay so i think we've we've said in our representation the premises is not suitable for the area because of the likely impact of noise from the premises and i understand the applicant is putting some investment in the uh on the venue to make sure this doesn't happen but then what you cannot get look at the dispersal policy and they have proposed some good some measures to that they intend to implement with regards to dispersal of customers from the premises and one of the things out yeah they'll be asking patrons to wait inside the premises is bircombe but then once their taxis arrive and they let go then with all we don't most of the vehicles will be packed on one swatch road which as council also already said is a very busy area and it's likely to lead to more conjunction and more nuisance from uh to road users and also one of the things which i've also with also concern about it's mitigating factors yes you can tell customers to be quiet but then most of the things will only happen when they and your premises as soon as they leave then we don't expect those staff or secure old staff to follow them to the railroad and escort them to remind them to be quiet most of the time so once they're out of the premises then it's just free for all and most of the patrons coming to the premises may also come by their own vehicle and they're likely to park on this residential road on port sledge side of the port sledge road side where residents the tower block is and once they leave your premises and make their way to their vehicles they're likely to carry on with chatting and talking loudly at that very early hours from the day and which will lead to awesome more noise nuisance and some patrons do continue with the party when they get to their car by turning up their music and which leads to more noise nuisance to residents so it's the difficulty in controlling this after effect once residents once patrons have they've the premises that's where we're concerned especially when you're operating out of three o'clock and three o'clock in this area is it's not a time centre and where you expect nightclubs to operate at two and three am is just beyond the licensing policy hours for the council with the licensing authorities minded with the hours on the rest of the week which is modest up till 11 pm on thursdays and sunday by the hours on friday and saturday is just what they're concerned about okay sorry and apologies i should have brought you in straight away then but committee are there any questions to ola no yeah i suppose it should maybe we'll come back to this because it's the clarification as well about the hours as well and just to keep in mind that the ones on page 29 is what the applicant is seeking yeah just take it's interesting about the eight eight am start on a sunday as well but maybe i'll come back to that a bit later mr rose i think but like um did you have an have there been a discussion about the hours ola with you as the licensing or is that been no no i think in terms of the hours where the the start time there's no likely to be issues at the beginning of the day it's the finishing time that's likely to cause concern yeah is 8 am on a sunday in the licensing objectives no 8 am is too early for licensing activities uh on a sunday unless if they i think they have said most of the activities on thursday and sunday isn't going to be like community events like yoga and if those are the kinds of activities they wish to uh put on on those days we're not going to have any likely concern especially if there's those events but if it's something to do with music events at a very early 8 a.m and if it's too early um cool um all right on that basis um i'm going to bring in mrs khan then um apologies that you've had a little bit of a longer wait there but hopefully some of the contacts there from ola and from him from mr rose has been helpful so give you up to five minutes now okay thank you um i'm the only representative that's on here at the moment because of the location of the original application and the blue slip was only actually put on their door which is situated at the end of port Slade alley it's not port Slade road port Slade road is on the other side the alley that they are going into which is right at the end of um the back of port Slade road and this notice was only noticed by someone who walked past and saw it on their door the um flats that are being spoken about over the other side have had no notification about it there's been nothing advertised there at all um we walked offs in the park and we mentioned it to people there they were astounded that this is going to be even approached or even thought about to have drinking and noise up for that at this hour um there are also residential properties come actually opposite that door on pen to be placed they were not notified either so i'm you know i'm not surprised that i'm the only one who's objected because i'm the only one that's seen the notice and tried to spread the word to tell people that this is going on um that roads that they're trying to open the licensing on is an alley it's not a road it's one ended there is only one entrance and that is on the top of port Slade road the entrance is right next to the bridge so when people come out they're spilling straight out onto the bridge the the space is very narrow the road is very narrow also this arch has only one exit and one entry i'm really surprised how it's been passed by the fire there is only one exit it hasn't got any other exit it's got one exit we leave vehicles out there are skips out there is all sorts of stuff up and down that road there's a glass firm they've got um broken glass that's left out it's on racks they've got stock out there which is on racks how are they going to stop anyone from touching that hurting themselves on it you've mentioned um so you've mentioned that you've got stewards there's no mention how many stewards if you've got 160 people max how are you going to monitor them walking up and down going out for a cigarette coming back for a cigarette who's going to monitor them who's going to stop people at three o'clock in the morning having a pee up our vehicles you know this is you know we're really really concerned about this we've not been consulted by the police all we've had is raj from the arch company who are lovely to say they want you in there because they want your rent they came around with um i believe it's yourself and a few other people introducing you just as oh look these are going to be your new neighbours not what do we think about it what about our property at the back that alley has no lighting we have our own cameras which we keep for security there is no lighting down there what how are you going to see what's going to happen and you know there's there is we're concerned that there's only one exit which is you know and our property there's no cover for our property you say ease of access there is no ease of access that gate is a single gate and it's only as wide as about 12 foot so you tell me how you're going to monitor that but there'll be no coming back of questions there i'm afraid miss confidence i mean i just have to remind you you have to speak to the representation that you've produced in your document so there's no leading of questions of the applicant at this stage okay so my we we're concerned about the safety of our people and we're concerned safety of our um of our property mainly and the fact that no one that this wasn't advertised properly so no one can complain about it yeah so that that was the actual as i mentioned earlier the it was yeah the the the advertisement for want of the better word yeah yeah the the blues the blue slip that goes on the door because that's what they want yeah which couldn't it was easily missed until the last minute okay which i think is totally unfair and i think was done on purpose sorry but i think that's true thank you mrs khan sorry selena did you want to come in on a legal point there or something oh yes sorry i yes i did i just wanted to come back about the blue notice um an obligation um i think that was called into question it was confirmed by licensing that was displayed correctly um and that's uh displayed um in line with the premises license um and club premises certificate regulations 2005 um and the requirement that the blue notice is placed um on the door as close to the front of the premises so in terms of the licensing question about whether that was displayed properly uh that's been um already established thank you uh panel did you have any questions specifically for mrs khan no oh adrian yes council garden sorry wait for it yeah just one um all the most of the people you are talking about who were totally unaware are they in fact in wandsworth rather than in lambeth um no because the across on the other side of the arches the road is split into wandsworth and lambeth yeah um so half is in wandsworth half is in lambeth so the road goes all the way down the end and as um ola was saying people will park there because there is no other parking so it will disturb the people that live there yeah because it was the ones with people who didn't who weren't no are you saying that the lambda people weren't aware either that's correct counselor because the advert was just put on the door right thank you okay thank you um unless there's any other kind of further questions we can um invite the applicant back to kind of address any of the kind of themes or concerns that they might have heard um and we can ask the committee to ask any final questions before we would then move to go and deliberate so i suppose mr rose uh you could have a couple of minutes if you want to come back in on any points raised yes please but i'll be quick chair um basically the advertising for the premises was done in the local newspaper within 10 days of the application as is required um in the public notices section and we specifically spoke to the the licensing team with photographs of the blue notice to double check that it was correct and they were happy with it um i just want to say with with the with the rep from with the rep from um the licensing team i appreciate that they're highlighting for you that in in your um in your statement of licensing policy that this this this does not seem appropriate i would say that one thing that we would we would argue the point with the on that is that nearly all of these things that have been discussed uh uh the specialist areas of the police and the noise and nuisance team neither of which are here because they are satisfied that the conditions they've agreed with us are sufficient in their manner and detail to control the things that we're talking about so a lot of the questions you're asking me are covered in in in the license conditions which appear on page was it 37 37 and 38 so if you if you have any concern about detail for this the the the for noise and nuisance and things like that if you would be minded to look at page 37 and 38 with the with the 30 odd conditions that have been agreed with the police and the environmental health team in order to control these problems i feel that it would clear up a lot of there is details of numbers and times and all sorts of things on there that we it would be a waste of time to go through you can do it in in recess later yeah and rest assured you know the committee has certainly gone through page for page yeah so like um other than that that i i appreciate your concerns about vehicles but the kind of events that we we run are not really the sort of thing that people would be attending with vehicles they say that that the the the the kind of target market that we have is not a driving target market yeah we're definitely happy to advertise as well that there's no parking in the area on our socials um and you could make that a condition if you wanted that we were required to advertise to uh potential attendees of the events that there is no parking in the area to reduce the concern for that um again there seems to be a lot of worry about this up and down the up and down the alley there'll be security and stewards and the dispersal policy and it it will be measured and well managed and i've got 23 years of doing that to sort of throw my weight into it yeah thanks mr rose i suppose given what we've heard i think around the concern even about the the hours of the sale of alcohol and and lots of people at different times um if the licensing subcommittee committee were minded to grant the application but just to reassure that no decision has been made um would you be agreeable to amended hours on the weekend if we were to grant the license or is 3 a.m on friday saturday absolute i mean we would definitely much rather have 3 a.m than than not it may be make it'll make the business model much less flexible for us okay thanks for confirming scarlet and then i think we'll go and deliberate yeah i'm just wondering about the 8 a.m on the sunday what's the what if you could explain what your reasoning is for that what you're thinking will be happening selling alcohol at 8 a.m on a sunday i'm not quite clear what that would be and yeah i mean i just want to highlight i i am concerned about people's welfare up and down this alleyway i i think that's a slightly unusual setting for a for a nightclub or at least it's a setting that needs some thinking through i think having one security guard on on the entrance it doesn't to me sound like enough to monitor a whole passageway with potentially quite poor lighting you didn't come back to me on the lighting so i'm just putting that out there but i would like the question about the 8 a.m and a sunday answer please 8 a.m and lighting and then very quickly adrian your comment and then you'll get your right of applying mr rose uh lighting so if you just i'm going to take adrian's point as well so it's the last round of three and then we'll adrian it was it was lighting um yeah so leaving scarlet lovely so to those points then please uh art school the the landlord have assured us that there will be motion sensitive uh halogen lights all the way along the alleyway that they've they've had some stolen that they'll be reinstalled we will obviously make sure that we maintain that with them um so the the lighting that we've been told has been addressed by the landlord um the the the the the number of security and stewards will be risk assessed based on the size of the event and if you read the conditions it's in there saying that that that's that's flexible and will change depending on what is going on and what times of day it is yeah and we we it won't just be one member of security for for especially for the start of it while we figure out exactly what we're doing we have no intention of allowing people to pee in the alleyway as it was put by mrs kahn and we we're also going to keep the alleyway clean and clear with a full straight view all the way from one end to the other and not allow people who aren't attending anything outside of normal business hours even access to it whenever we're using it so like that we we we we the combination of the dispersal policy stewarded the conditions that are set by everybody and and the the fact that it is a controlled area we believe is sufficient for us to manage it and then to the point about the 8 a.m on the sunday yeah i mean i think we're we're we're probably a little bit more flexible on that uh we're i think we were looking at weddings and things like that uh i don't think there was any particular reason that we needed the atm start on the sunday specifically so uh i think one of the council has mentioned uh if we would be open to to changing the hours i think that atm start is something that we would be open to changing if in the worst case i think it was the three i think it's the overall hours possibly of 3m and the atm but that's good to know um sorry mrs kahn i see that you do have your hand up but i mean that was the kind of final part of the hearing because if we give the applicant the right to kind of reply on some of the issues that were heard and i think we probably heard enough to get stuck into a deliberation so i would ask my colleagues to join me in another virtual room uh but ask you all to stay online and we will be with you this can take anything from 15 minutes to up to half an hour an hour but hopefully it won't take that long so if you just stay online grab a drink and we'll be back shortly thank you okay hi everyone thanks for bearing with us uh yes mr rose is you're there with your up your colleagues brilliant thank you um is mrs kahn still on or she left she's still here officers are here and scott's here brilliant okay um okay bear with me so apologies for the way but as i say you know we'd like to give uh you know these hearings um a fair hearing for want of a better word and to make sure that we explore all potential uh avenues before we come to our deliberation and uh that is of the licensing subcommittee having considered all of the material before it and having listened to the representations have resolved to refuse the applications members were not satisfied that the premises could promote the license objectives of preventing public nuisance and public safety there were particular concerns regarding the proposed dispersal arrangements and hours of operation and considered of the location members do not feel the conditions in place for this type of premises would be robust and promoting the licensing objectives and i would just remind the applicants that the committee uh you will be notified of a decision within days of all parties of the hearing and of course you have a right to appeal the decision um so i just want to say thank you very much for for your times and contributions this evening um and we will move on to the second here in the evening so for the feedback there sorry mr rose thank you very much thank you very much thanks take care thank you goodbye um okay we now move then on so mrs khan you can leave the meeting or you're happy to stay if you wish no you're probably missing eastenders oh cori i don't know if anybody watches that anymore i do all right uh well i'll take thanks very much i'll take you from that brilliant okay so we are moving on to um licensing officer ola is it you introducing this one or pam no that's me for the second one lovely thank you this is an application for lowman food is that from me or i i believe so can i just see this is yeah okay we can hear you okay yeah this is from slab city yep at hd pavement london sw40h y the application is seeking now refreshments indoors and outdoors sunday to thursday 2300 to midnight and on friday and saturday 2300 to 0100 non-standard timing on christmas eve new year's eve and sunday before bank holiday they also wishing to finish at or 100 hours they're also seeking sale of alcohol on and off the premises sunday to thursday 11 a.m to midnight and friday and saturday 11 a.m to 1 a.m also seeking extension on non-standard timing up till 1 a.m on christmas eve new year's eve and sunday before bank holiday opening hours are on sunday to thursday 11 a.m to midnight and friday and saturday 11 a.m to 1 a.m and also seeking extension on non-standard timing on new year's eve christmas eve and sunday before bank holiday in attendance for the applicant is miss jack low jack lowman and two representation were submitted against the application from the licensing authority and the food health and safety team representing the licensing authority is pamela riley and from the food health and safety team is kira aris the application form is at pages 53 to 65 of the reports the plan can be found at page 67 and the brochure submitted by the applicant at pages 67 to 73 the representations are at pages 75 to 80 subsequent to the publication of the report the licensing authority have been in negotiation with the applicant and then went up till about 5 p.m this afternoon at some point i was expecting a response from the applicant but since i to agree condition that's been agreed and what hasn't been agreed subsequently when the applicant didn't respond i have now sent to selena and kaya the up-to-date version of what's been agreed and was outstanding i sent that just before the end because i was waiting for the applicant to respond to the correspondence from justin that concludes my introduction unless members have any questions for me adrian scarlet no questions so far brilliant sorry i should have probably stated at the top of the meeting as well whilst i don't have any declarations of interest should notice that this application is within my ward of clapham town which is probably why i would well to get discuss or try to lead the panel any too much of the discussions so i'll be relying on my colleagues for a bit more of interrogation on questions but mr loeman so thanks very much for joining us this evening so i suppose you've got up to um five minutes now if you wish and thank you for waiting patiently so you're on mute sir oh we've got you on mute sorry you're on mute mr loeman can i see if i can get to unmute there you go oh yes no test test no i'm not hearing anything don't worry it's okay it happens sometimes it's these these laptops have been playing up a bit as well but it sounds like you're in some sort of okay coming in on another laptop try that so you have to unmute your other one let's see if that one works is that any better yeah but i'd have to mute you on the other one so we don't have any feedback how's that that's that's okay can everyone hear me then we yep i am not hearing you though you're not hearing us hi do we know what's kind of happening sorry i'm not getting any audio no okay no it would have to be from his side counselor okay i'm in the room sorry about that guy okay you can hear us now yes yeah i've got your technical uh technical difficulties here all right not at all so yeah up to five minutes to speak now okay splendid um okay so i'm uh jake loeman um i'm the uh director of loma food limited which uh owns slab city in clapham we're seeking a extension on the normal times for um takeaway uh refreshments and alcohol till 12 o'clock on uh tuesday to thursday monday to thursday sorry and then till one o'clock one one am on friday and saturday and just till 12 o'clock on sunday again um we've been in clapham common for a year in that site uh we're like a high-end pizza shop and coffee shop um the idea is that we would basically be able to trade and take take advantage of the uh later trade on the friday and saturday nights because it's quite a bustling area um yeah so sorry i had my some notes here but i've lost them um okay so i have uh previously owned um a licensed establishment um up until a year ago when i sold that so i have a lot of experience with with um holding holding our license premises um yeah so what what do we what do we what we bring into the area at that time of night well i suppose um you can get a lot of food late there but you can't get a lot of high quality food so um it's pretty imperative for our business now that we've established ourselves as like a very we're very well regarded in terms of quality product um and very community sort of focused in term in the way uh we deal with our customers and stuff um so yeah basically we feel like the additional you know couple of cans of craft beer on our delivery and takeaway service which is predominantly what slab city does really it's a very small shop we do about 85 of what we do is in and out the door or on delivery so fundamentally we only have eight seats but what what the kind of uniqueness about slab city is is people usually in and out ordered and out within five minutes if they're sitting they usually stay in around 15 minutes so just to that kind of reiterate this isn't we're not a boozer we're not trying to be that way too small for anything like that um this is just a as a complementary to the food that we sell and more moreover realistically the the um the lake food license is of critical importance to kind of grow in the the business further really um yeah with regards to sort of the the staffing and stuff we always we have a very tight team of people who've worked for me for you know two years plus myself or the other director uh we within that venue uh basically all of the time that it's open um we run a really tight ship and yeah um just trying to think of what else we're happy to go to questions if you like mr lemonoff you want to do with some so basically i mean as far as i'm aware if there's only two free outstanding outstanding points so i just want me to touch on those even before so there's three points that haven't been agreed essentially from what i can see um it's um patrons temporarily leaving the premises to smoke shall not be more than two and are not permitted to take alcohol with them it it's almost like entire like totally irrelevant really i mean we don't have it's not like a pub we don't have people like drinking and going out for a smoke and coming back in it's not something that would really even happen so i mean i just like i can't we have eight seats i just can't see why that would be something that would need to be in there and something also that's just like it's kind of out of my control or the venue's control really it just doesn't seem a likely thing to me um the next one is delivery drivers which is 0.21 delivery drivers shall be clear have clear written instruction to use their vehicles in a responsible manner well with my own drivers that's absolutely fine and not a problem to adhere to at all um with with third-party drivers again it's not something i can agree to purely on the basis of they don't work for me you know i'm not paying them now i would say that actually in front of the shop is is a taxi bay anyway nobody can park there now what what the drivers currently do is wherever they park down further down on clapham high road i guess uh high street by yeah they park further down and come up generally um so yeah so again something i can't really control is is that as a point um i mean to that point sir and i would do i know we'll probably have questions coming up shortly i suppose you can appreciate on venn street the high volume of uh delivery drivers there'll be in front of five guys and honest you know all that i suppose that's that's kind of the point a little bit there i think yeah um yeah i mean they're already there though you know yeah outside of outside of those establishments what is actually interesting about where we are is they actually cannot it's impossible for them to congregate outside there because the taxi cameras i mean are on 24 hours a day so if you stop there you are getting a ticket um for sure so that that point and then the last one was the toilet which you know um i believe that's why kira's uh what the issue that kira had sort of um a problem with uh again eight seats i think i'm i'm told legally it's 10 you need for a toilet i'm just like people aren't sitting around we sell about 500 soft drinks a week you know we don't need a toilet for that but we need a toilet to sell a kind of beer just seems a little bit um yeah it just seems like it's a bit kind of like i'm getting treated sort of like more like a pub and it's like no we we want to add a couple of like an offering of alcohol to complement what we're doing not make that the mainstay of the business so and that's that's there in within the within the agreed terms anyway so um yeah that's pretty much me so okay yeah brilliant thank you mr loman okay oh no so do i bring in um no i'm not bringing in pam yet we're gonna have pam you'll you'll be up after a couple of questions correct i'm guessing thanks pam sorry just didn't want to be sure that i cut you off again adrian you go first ah okay um yeah you can hear me yes it's the toilet again um you're you're saying you need 10 for a toilet i mean 10 people requires a toilet and you are saying you won't have more than 10 people sitting there i mean if you only had eight seats uh and didn't provide the toilet would that be acceptable for you for me for me yeah i mean if you were only providing eight seats for people to sit and therefore you weren't a 10 seat restaurant and therefore you claimed you didn't need a toilet would you be happy with that i'm i'm happy with that yeah i don't i don't want to have a toilet okay fair enough that was that the other thing is i think i'll ask um uh licensing officers what their view of your not agreed are i mean you've made quite clear which ones you're not agreeing to so i i'll wait and see what they think about that okay thank you charlotte yeah thank you chair so um yes mr loman i just a couple of questions first about the number of staff on the premises at any time that'd be good to know um and i also see that it says you can't sell craft beer over six percent have you noted that and um do you have enough craft beers of other types that you you have a full complement but without going to six percent so i believe that's been um uh struck off by by um that one's been removed i believe and i i believe that was what ola was saying there's a new um the new it's not on sorry it's not it's been crossed out from i believe in justice yeah it's it's been removed from the most recent condition i don't know if you want me to share that with you now or you i'll take your word for that ola yeah thank you for i've sent it to kaya and selena anyway they can help you out when you're deliberate okay i'm sorry uh sorry scarlet what was the other question please about the about the number of staff on the premises ah yeah okay so there's never there's never let in the daytime there's never less than two people friday saturday night through the week so monday to thursday from from five o'clock there's free staff and on friday and saturday nights there's five staff yeah okay thank you no problem okay i mean the only question do i have a question was it more of a comment when i look at page 88 88 and it's a layout of the restaurant i mean whether i'm double counting but i mean i can see that there's probably it depends you could easily scoop up more people on those benches you know that are going to overdo eight right and if you've got a few friends and then you just snuggle up together so i i mean i think but i'll take your word for it in the sense of it may just sit hey but there's definitely capacity to sit more people i i i implore you to come down and take a look through uh i'll give you a slice of pizza if you want um i think it's tight it's very very small it's very yeah yeah i mean i walk past it every day near enough so you know i have seen it so yeah yeah it would be i mean i think if you came i mean we'd probably struggle to get eight in it now we've just moved the counter forward a little bit more because we're we're um we're getting extremely busy and we need a bit more kitchen space so there is there is literally eight seats in there and that'll be a squeeze now um yeah so i suppose the other thing is you know as you know clapham high street just get very congested on this on the weekend and i suppose i think what the conditions were trying to seek was a bit of crowd control management you know not just from the delivery drivers and i suppose what they were trying to maybe get from the kind of smoking condition was this because where you are on the pavement is the main kind of you know way linking from the old town to the high street basically so i think it's it's that about you know what what would you guys be doing to ensure minimal antisocial behavior uh noise disruption especially when there's a load of flats that are above that premises you know and if people are going to be coming and what was my way of describing earlier the last thing we want is to have new water features on clapham common that have come from the pavement and i totally agree um i i've worked in and around clapham for clapham common for years and years and years and i i genuinely you know genuine genuinely we care a lot about the uh reputation of our business for sure and we are like we're um i'm no nonsense for one thing and and uh yeah we haven't had any issues whatsoever in in a year you know and we look we get people who come you know after of course we get people who come after they've been to the pub and get a slice and go but they they're very quick in and out in in our place i have to say you know and that's the business model that is what it is really is we don't want people waiting around you know that is um you because one because it's so small and and two because it's it's easier for us as a business these days you know we went down i have a restaurant in tooting we went down this this this um this route pure because of it's more what people want now they don't really want to stay around too long and they want very very quick service and that's what we provide and we provide it a really high quality and i i can't see it being an issue that bit of the pavement is quieter than you know you uh you take a walk down clapham high street past sort of five guys and you're in a different world really so we respect the fact that it isn't clapham high street in that you know in that respect we don't want it to be we kind of think it's pretty cool that we're our own little bit up there um and it is quieter and i'm obviously aware of that as well it is a bit quieter we have a great relationship with with um with the the flats and the people around um and that all of our neighbors actually i made very a very big point of making sure that you know they have the num that are numbers and they're popping and stuff obviously we have cameras you know we have all of all of the actual legalities in place as well just to make sure that we are all covered the staff trained etc etc well it's good to know that about the contact communications open between the residents definitely yeah i think there's only one other final thing and then i will bring in um officers unless the committee have another question and it was the issue about the waste was at point um yeah underneath 88 because again as you i'm probably sure you see you know from some of the restaurants opposite uh on the clapham south side on the saturday night into sunday morning it can then lead into a little bit like a yeah bit of a fly tipping hot spot yeah i completely agree with that and it's like a like a peeve of mine also because part of it is you know businesses dump on the lamppost outside of our shop including us but so we use first mile for instance now they pick up our rubbish at 11 30 so we have to put it out 11 30 p.m for a collection at 12. so the the idea of not putting it out between 10 and 5 it just doesn't make any sense because i believe it goes against what the actual policy of your of the council rubbish collection pickup is right do you know i mean i think that was what what was said about that i mean i'm i'm more than happy to kind of change uh the the collections but ideally i don't want to be storing rubbish overnight because that's never good for anything really um yeah i would say this actually as well when when first mile or whoever we're using do not collect rubbish it's one of those things that i am on like yeah it's because it's very very annoying because i'm paying for a service and i'm not receiving the service so it's but it's one of those and especially since it's outside of the shop so so we you know okay yeah thank you no worries okay well come to so did you want to come in at that point olav before i bring in pam sorry you're on mute happens to us all yes on condition 11 the applicant you have agreed with your age for your agent that there will be no waste or recyclable materials removed or placed outside between 10 pm and 5 am then if you've agreed that and you're saying your waste is collected at midnight so you will be placing waste outside during those hours then yeah i don't know why she's left that in there okay so what we're saying what to remove 11 or is it does it need added wording i mean i can change the time of the collection but i just don't think that that's doesn't really make it doesn't really make sense if you close at 12 or one to put your rubbish out at 10. yeah that's elena i mean hi i'm just looking at the conditions that are sent over and it may be that it's that um condition 11 is removed and that condition 12 stays which is that always shall be properly presented and placed that collection earlier in 30 minutes brilliant thanks for that clarification selena right pam should we come over to you okay thank you chair um i'm currently doing this on behalf of my colleague justin atkinson who can't be here tonight um i understand that um i call it said in in his introduction there's been extensive backwards and forward with um communications between um jake's agent um is it um is it jill and um and justin um to try and hash out the conditions and and get something that's agreeable to all parties now um out of all the conditions uh just uh i was just going to say there are there are 28 conditions and out of the 28 conditions um most were agreed and i was just going to go over those that have been agreed so it's it's um it's it's read out on the uh the committee um all 28 uh it's it'll be quick um agreed conditions one through to nine are all agreed um condition 10 has been agreed we are um as selena said we are going to switch around condition um 11 and 12 so we were going to remove 12 but we're now going to reinstate condition 12 and remove condition 11 which um speaks of the uh with the hours between 10 and 5 a.m no collection no recycling outside um we were uh we it was agreed to remove condition 16 relating to sorry 17 which it relates to no beers ales and lagers over a six percent um and the conditions 13 through to 16 were all agreed condition 18 has been agreed 20 and 22 23 through to 28 have been agreed the only two sticking points that we have are condition 19 and conditioned 21 with condition 19 this that's relating to patrons leaving the premises to smoke now we would want that um we don't understand why this condition is such a sticking point for for mr loman basically because if we if there are only two people allowed to smoke outside it shouldn't it shouldn't really bear weight on uh be a problem for for for the rest of his customers or for uh for the premises to to operate um without issue i think we what we would we would ask is that we we retain condition 19 asking for two patrons unless um he's he's got a a separate figure that he would want um number wise as to how many people can smoke outside um with condition 21 with regards to the delivery drivers we just ask that if we if mr loman could request have a uh poster on his window so that the drivers can um can be instructed not to um to to not to use that to use their vehicles responsibly in a responsible manner and to um not to congregate and outside the premises and to leave their engines running um as well and park their vehicles responsibly too so again we'd ask that condition 21 be kept um but instead of saying uh written instruction provided to the vehicle the drivers have a poster um specifying the um the condition instead thanks and that's that's that's everything from me thanks pam um uh counselors before we um bring to any questions for pam i'm going to bring in is it kyara so i hope i pronounced that correctly yes it's kira here sorry that's all right i think i'm thinking of ciara the singer so my apologies it's okay cancer not not no offense taken i assure you thank you um thank you for your time everyone um so the food health and safety team made a representation in accordance with the licensing objectives um in particular in relation to public safety uh pertaining to granting the premises license for loman foods limited for slab city eighth pavement london sw4 um the representation revolves around the access to toilet facilities toilets in particular for customers as per the plan originally submitted with the application customers would have had to walk through the food service area to use the facilities which could be which would be of concern to us in relation to food safety and also health and safety given access to equipment hot sources heat sources water you know knives everything um counselor and um members i'm mindful appreciate and acknowledge that in response to the concerns raised mr london loman and his agent came back with a reference to the code of practice for sanitary installations and that they were looking to reference in particular limit the number of seats available at the premises however i note from the conditions that circulated in particular in relation to condition number 16 where it references that the supply of alcohol and the premises shall only be to person seated at a table and for consumption by such persons as auxiliary to food so therefore my question would be how that condition would comply with the code of practice for sanitary installations which mr loman's agent refers to as bs 6465 um i've taken the extract below where they talk about food premises that are predominantly takeaway are allowed to have up to 10 seats without having to provide free use to sanitary appliances for their customers and that the seating provided is incidental to the business and that the arrangements need to be such that they do not encourage customers to stay on the premises for long periods and counselor i should say that i am further mindful of discussions with mr loman at the time of my visit on the 9th of july where we discuss that the business is looking for late opening for sales of their product range and that they do plan at some stage to rearrange the premises so that use of welfare facilities could would not necessitate walking through the service area so i would ask if those plans are in place and if the applicant is looking for on or off sales thank you thank you um committee did you have any points to come in on adrian well it's my very first question i still don't understand whether i've got an answer in that if only eight people can sit there and you've just said there are only eight seats why does he need a toilet uh counselor i think i would i would say when i visited in july there was definitely more seats and when you look in relation to my initial concerns were the fact that obviously and the plans and the plans that are still submitted it shows that the welfare facility patrons would need to walk behind the counter service in order to facilitate should they need to and i'm just mindful of the fact that the condition talks about alcohol being served and people sitting down now i take on board completely that mr loman has referenced you know his business is a takeaway he's right he does offer a premium product um and you know it's it's a it's a it's a small unique setup that that he has there and you know jake made reference to me being on site and visiting with him um but i think we need to be mindful of the fact that if there are numbers and how he's going to marshal that that would be my concerns so um i'm going to bring the scarlet in first ola and then we'll come back over to you yeah i mean it's it's the same topic really and it looks to me like maybe about six but about 12 people i guess it it depends exactly on the on the size of the people and the groups of the people but around 12 so it does look like more than 10 and i must say i do have concerns about people walking through the kitchen i mean that seems really in ill-advised um especially you know you're serving hot food it's yeah for the safety of the customers and safety of the staff that seems problematic so i think this is a bit of a sticking point and we really need a bit more reassurance and facts on it in is it absolutely the case um kyara that someone that an establishment that offers hot food and can seat more than 10 people has to have facilities toilet facilities is that absolutely the law i i just need a bit of clarification on that i think um counselor there there is no real set um parameters he talks about and what um mr lowman and his agency came back with was in relation to small premises so they've used the extraction of you know less than 10 um but uh i'm mindful of the fact of it being a late night premises with alcohol on site um and that you know consideration should be given to customers that will choose you know be a short term uh to sit and enjoy a pizza and obviously have refreshment associated with that and how they would manage their welfare facilities so there are um i guess what i'm asking is uh and asking the the committee to consider is whether we should be looking at um that um and whether we should be considering as well you know we we have miscellaneous legislation that we could be asking jake to take on board in relation to the installation of facilities um but as i said my discussion with jake in july um was that plans were in place to kind of re reestablish and re-review the layout of the premises that would allow access should should the access to facilities be required i'm going to come to selena first ola sorry just because i'm presuming there's a legal point here hi thank you um it's in relation to the toilets um the question of the toilets um and what i would say to members is that um the provision of toilets to patrons is not something and that the subcommittee uh should be considering it needs to be your consideration needs to be given um to the licensing objectives um as miss harris said or indicated that there is legislation and that deals with the provision of toilets and sanitation facilities um and what members would want to try to do is avoid the duplication um by putting conditions on a premises license where there's a statutory or regulation already in place thank you for that clarification ola yeah thank you chair i just want to try to attempt to answer maybe provide some answer to council garden with regards to the toilet and it's if we say eight or ten i think the concern to to licensing as a whole is people sitting and having a meal on the premises may decide during the course of the meal or before they leave that they want to use the facility and if there's even though there's one on the premises but the access to it is very it's it's put public safety at risk or any one of the premises entries having to expect patrons to go through the kitchen area to access the toilet so if there's not a toilet on the premises then they're going to use maybe someone else's front garden want to leave because i believe there's no public toilet in clapham or at that point very late in the evening there might not be one available i mean it would be if someone's gone it'd be the common would it be bus stops bus shelters etc possibly um thank you um can you just re possible to just jump back in just to just to you'll certainly get it right to reply if you just bear with me a second i just wanted to just double clarify again then because obviously i think the the the papers that we've got it said that the opening hours friday and saturday were 2300 this was for the provision of alcohol was it was it till oh no sorry hang up i skipped ahead there no that's it is it till 4am or 3am or but then they were but the licensing recommendations to one were agreed were they correct yes all right brilliant just wanted that clarification as well right go for it mr levin so since uh kira's visit so what we have done i was toying with the idea of turning it around so people could have access to the toilet that wasn't the best decision for me to do for the business for the for the cost of it so what we've done is moved everything forward and got rid of two seats so now they're from 10 to 8 there's not 12 there's eight there's eight seats that's all of the seats eight and that was the reason i did that but the the reason why you could just clarify the reason why the reason the reason i i got rid of you decreased the decrease the seats was to negate the need of having a toilet right because we're a takeaway shop so when we're talking about people sitting and having a meal they're not sitting and having a meal with us that is not something that people are doing we sell pizza by the slice okay they're having a piece of pizza and then leaving possibly a pint well we don't have any draft but you know you know what i mean i get it yeah no i do get it but it's a but it's very fast casual it's not you know it's not a restaurant okay ola thank you yeah i think if the applicant is saying they're a takeaway then will they be minded to amend the application to remove one cell from the application i i don't i no not really i don't think that's necessary as soon as it's been agreed as it is it doesn't seem necessary really scarlet did you want to come in yes so are you saying then mr lowman that there's no access to the toilet now that that if someone comes to the staff and says is there a toilet the staff say no i'm sorry there isn't a toilet exactly okay i hope there's one for the staff there is yeah yeah um all right so hang on because i think we're getting a bit uh just to kind of unless there was any other kind of comments and stuff i think was there something to bring yeah i mean i think that thank you very much for all the other contributions that have kind of come in um uh there's something i was going to ask about a kind of a potential condition about the the poster um 21 is that something that you think that you might be inclined to support i think look we can we can do that if if that's what's needed for that that's fine and of course there was the smoking thing as well which i know you're smoking the smoking thing for me is like okay so two people are standing out three people are standing outside of my shop smoking then i'm in breach of my license that i've paid tons of money to get it doesn't make any sense you know it's just it probably won't happen but why should i take the risk do you know what i mean it doesn't make any sense but if it has to stay in then it can stay like yeah yeah i suppose one of the the points of that i think that's done and correct me if i'm wrong here pam ola is that you know if you are having that transactional thing of you know quick get them in out pizza or whatever then do you want about 12 people stood outside having a cigarette absolutely no no way yeah so that's why i think that condition of just having two is about lowering the level of people you allow up the premises yeah no i i get it i suppose it's just it just seems a bit like abstract in terms of like it's i mean luckily not many people smoke anymore so that's kind of good but um yeah but look i mean if it has if it's staying in it's staying in that's you know i can yeah well i think pam wanted to jump in on that point and yeah i was just gonna say it's just so that it's for your patron it's uh the two are for your patrons only we don't expect people to wander up to your premises and stand outside your premises and and smoke with um at all what we're saying is if your patrons are leaving the premises to have a cigarette only allowed two at a time yeah yeah i mean look yeah it's never even it's never happened yet in a year so okay i'm sure it's fine i'm sure it's fine g my my uh agent to sort of like was just like well you don't want to be in breach of you know this and that and i'm well i don't like it's a fair point as well because you know you know how can i control what people how many you know visitors able to free and they go out smoke and smoke a cigarette but yeah okay i'll agree to it all right well on that basis then so right um we'll go into liberate is that correct unless there's any other questions from officers to the applicant and the other all right brilliant well if you just bear with us mr lowman thank you very much grab yourself a drink we'll be back in uh anything between 10 minutes 20 minutes half an hour so no worries thank you so much cheers guys thank you right we're here kaya lovely whenever you're ready your counselor thank you kaya um mr lowman's here my panel are here officers are here all present and correct um okay bear with me while i get my notes up um so having considered the application members of the license the lsc the licensing subcommittee have resolved to grant the application with the agreed conditions settled with lambeth licensing updated on the 25th of september 2024 the additional conditions the lcs also seek to impose on top of the following um condition 19 which was patrons temporarily leaving the premises to smoke should not be more than two and not permitted to take alcohol with them condition 21 a notice slash poster should be promptly displayed on the premises window requesting delivery drivers using their vehicles in responsible manner so as not to cause a nuisance to any residents or generally outside the license premises and condition 27 that the maximum number of persons accommodated for consumption of alcohol on the premises excluding staff shall not exceed eight persons so with that we say thank you for bearing with us and um yeah thank you very much for your time and contributions this evening mr lowman and and the other officers thank you very much ladies and gentlemen appreciate it take care thanks very much bye have a good evening um mr oaks and miss isn't mrs now thank you for waiting patiently um uh yeah these things you never know how you never know how these things are going to go sometimes so apologies so just thank you for waiting um uh i believe ola is it yourself introducing this one that's right cancer thank you yeah this is an application for a new not only a new premises license for instable instanbul full gate at 2060 parades just a mile the application is seeking sale of alcohol monday to sunday off the premises from 11 a.m to 11 p.m and the opening hours for the premises monday to sunday of 24 hours in attendance for the applicant mrs snow and miss star okay five representation were received against the application from member of the public and none of the objectors have confirmed their attendance and this seems none of them seems not to be in attendance the application form and the plans are eight at pages 101 to 109 the agreed conditions are at pages 111 to 112 and the representation against the applications at pages 113 to 123 if i also may remind committee the options open to members i think there are two other options that were missing from the from paragraph six of the report and there's another option which members are if you're minded to grant you can also exclude from the scope of the license any of the license of activities to which the application relates and you also have the option to refuse to specify the individual's name in the application as the dps this too is in addition to the three stated in the report that concludes my introduction unless members have any questions for me um thanks i suppose it's just for the clarification again for me it was the sale of of alcohol that's off the premises so this could be deliveries is it 8 a.m until 11 no 11 a.m to 11 p.m so within the licensing hours thank you that's clarifying yeah thank you okay brilliant well we'll unless there's anything else from colleagues no well i'll come over to the applicant and the representative so yeah you've got up to five minutes oh okay my name is source of our i'm his consultant and we made the application on behalf of him and we have received the representations from from the licensing authority about the equity conditions so all conditions i think you can see number 16 condition number 16 condition number 17 and number 18 agreed by the applicant to prevent any nuisance or prevent any street drinking in the vicinity so he agreed those conditions and alcohol only will be solved from 11 a.m to 11 p.m and health and safety conditions he has already health and safety risk assessment and power risk assessment in place and all the daily checks weekly checks monthly checks and culturally six monthly and annual checks will be in place and will be recorded and he has experience anyway he is operating another supermarket called same name istanbul fort gate in mitcham area and he never had any problem with the neighbors or in the in their vicinity regarding public nuisance or any health and safety issue and he has already training in health and safety and his dps has got personal license also another supervisor he has a personal license they will be he will be in charge when mr rakesh is not in the premises and the other staff who is working on the floor they will be trained with the licensing conditions especially when the license issued when it's granted on the side of the licensing act 2003 and especially for the licensing conditions that all staff will be trained in terms of deliveries so some of the residents they objected for the deliveries but as we stated on our application deliveries will not be accepted before 8 a.m also we will push them to receive the delivery after 10 a.m which is video already because after 10 a.m there is 30 minutes pre-loading and unloading permission on the street in the front and we never consider to receive the deliveries at the back of the shop always from the front side and after 10 a.m so we don't think there will be any disturbance to the neighborhood for this delivery hours and weekends on saturday maybe one delivery for the fruits and vegetables can receive again after 10 but some days there will be no deliveries at all and the west collection and there is arrangements already and one resident complained about the animal by-products origin for waste but those waste as you aware there's a cat two cat cat three waste already connected by the certified companies and the waste bins always kept in the chiller with the clean conditions and containers not outside the temperature between one and four so there is no chance to any odor or smell or any microbiological hazard to the environment at all and air conditions for the external units is already they got planning permission for those ones previously and at the same conditions they installed with the low level noise and if we check it's daytime and nighttime it's low level noise from the outside already and the same positions they were kept and into a pest control arrangements as every premises in london unfortunately they have to look after their premises and they go pest control company and in in but we don't rely on them and daily checks will be done by the personnel staff who is working in the premises if there is any sign any life or death bodies or any droppings straight away they will call the pest control company but they are not going to wait for the monthly visit to come and check by the pest contractor they will do their checks by themselves to prevent any hazard from the pest so we don't think it's going to be any problem at all and supply of alcohol we said is going to be 11 a.m to 11 p.m which is very reasonable hours to sell alcohol we cannot see any problem it's a off sale anyway it's a restaurant it's not a restaurant it's not a home sale it's off sale people that will come and collect so as i mentioned so there will be no beers or lagers or ciders above six percent abv to prevent the street drinking no single cans of beer lager or cider shall be sold at all and the premises shall not sell or any supply miniature bottles of secrets or similar things less than 50 mil or less so we will take all these preventive steps to prevent any public news or anything can disturb the neighborhoods in the vicinity so already they opened now and the customers from the residents they seems very happy we don't know if there is any complaint after that but up to now we did not hear any complaint nor any negative feedback we did not receive so i don't know if you have any question yeah well okay i'll take a we'll go to the panel if needs be but thanks very much for that um committee adrian counselor garden hi can you confirm that you've had meetings with our licensing officers and that all the conditions they suggested you have accepted yes we have accepted all the conditions raised by the licensing authority and he will comply all of them no further questions thank you scarlet do you have any questions um the only other kind of one for me then was about the waste collection i think there was something there about as you may have heard i think that's quite a hot potato i think across the boroughs i think so yeah just just assurances about you know waste collection and such yes waste collection uh we have two type of uh waste one is in mobile products so the professional company grace they will come and collect they will start they are licensed company and the collection time is 12 noon so always so not early hours uh the rest will be collected and general waste also again they collected in afternoons there is no early waste collection at all or knowledge is uh around 12 noon only okay brilliant thank you um if there's no other questions from the committee was there anything from the licensing of the other licensing to come in at this point i don't think there's any there's no none of the objectives are in attendance no there's no objection from the licensing authority okay so i i think on that basis are we ready to move to deliberate cool well thank you both very much if you could just wait here we will be back um within a moment area within a few minutes so just hold hold tight and we're back in a sec thank you thank you i think we're ready kaya i think that's fine i think that's the horrors back in you yep everyone's oh she is thanks everybody um of uh waiting will be considered um if the applicants are all here the committee are all here let me just uh get out the decision so thank you so having considered the application members have resolved to grant the application with the amended agreed hours for licensable activity from 11 am till 11 pm each day and of all the and all of the agreed conditions settled with lambeth licensing and detailed in the report back so with that yes we say thank you very much i probably should have let you go first really shouldn't i to keep you hanging around for three hours so i apologize for keeping you waiting but hopefully it's a the result you were after um just want to say thank you to all officers this evening for all your work in doing this and to the committee um yeah thank you very much everybody thank you very much we didn't know we are going to join another committee but it was uh quite good experience for us thank you brilliant there you go it's better than watching the telly thank you thank you good night everybody take care of that everybody bye-bye bye thank you [BLANK_AUDIO]