Skills, Economy and Growth Scrutiny Commission - Monday 30 September 2024 7.00 pm
September 30, 2024 View on council website Watch video of meeting or read trancriptTranscript
Okay, welcome to the meeting of the Skills of Colony and Growth Scrutiny Commission. To all our guests in our virtual meeting room and to everyone watching online. Please can you keep all your microphones on mute throughout the meeting. This will prevent audio feedback. If you are still getting feedback, please turn off nearby devices. If you'd like to speak, raise your hand to get mic attention. State your name and affiliation before you make a comment. The chat function must not be used to have conversations with other participants or to provide personal information. Please only use the chat function to alert me that you wish to speak, to raise points of order or to report tech problems. This is a former meeting of the Council. Please note the press may be in attendance. The rights of the press in public's record and film meeting will apply. Okay, so item one, introductions and apologies for absence. My name is Councillor Clare Potter and I'm the Chair of Skills, Economy and Growth. So I note we've had apologies from Councillor Root and Councillor Martins. Any other apologies? Everybody's present. Can I start over from Councillor Smith who would just like to say your name? Yeah, Councillor Smith, Stoke Newton Ward, thank you. Councillor Pinkerton, Gales Newell, Ward. Councillor Loughton, Chappell Ward. Councillor Loughcraft, Haggerty, Ward. Councillor Agustin, Canley, Member, Lebridge, Councillor Sadek, Kings Park, Ward. Councillor Sadek is also the Vice-Chair for Skills, Economy and Growth. Okay, so if I could also introduce Councillor Susan Fajana-Thomas who is the Cabinet Lead for the city and also Councillor Williams who is the Cabinet Lead for Human Resources, Equalities and much more which she will remind me when she speaks. I get the title correct. And if I could also thank officers who are in the room. Would you just like to briefly introduce yourselves? Starting with you, Dijon. Hi, I'm Dijon Harvey, Assistant Director of Employment Skills and Adult Learning. Nicola Joyce, Programme Manager, Employment Skills and Adult Learning. Thank you. Hi, everybody, I'm Suzanne Johnson, I'm Interim Director of Economy and Growth. And for the second item I'll just move over and we can have an introduction from ourselves, sir. I'm David Cooper, I'm Team Leader at Rockhaven Credit. I'm David McCarthy, I'm Deputy Team Leader, Safety, Enforcement and Business Development. Samantha Rappers, Nainana De Manisha. Thank you, everybody and welcome. I'd just like to highlight as well that it's Councillor Pinkerton's first meeting for Skills. Okay, thank you, everybody. Okay, item two. Are we going to have Geeta in the room, in the virtual room? She'll join when she, if she's joined online. Okay, I'll introduce her when she arrives. Okay, item two. Urgent items, Order of Business, there aren't any and the Order of Businesses is laid out in the agenda. Item three, Declarations of Interest. Do members have any declarations to declare? Councillor Smith? Yes, Chair. I'm the Chair of the Licensing Committee and I feel that there is a little bit of a conflict of interest for me on that particular item. So I'd ask for your blessing to leave at that point. Yeah, okay. On the economy item. Thank you. Councillor Loughton? I'm the Vice-Chair, so I'll do the same. Okay, thank you. Thank you both. Okay, so moving on to item, the first substantive item, item four, the Hackney Council Green Skills and Circular Economy Initiative. We have 15 minutes starting for this item at 19.08, so the presentation of 10 minutes and then a Q&A. Going green is important because it will lead to a healthier lifestyle, a cleaner environment, save money and will provide a future environment for the next generations. Green initiatives are about preserving resources so that our current needs and the needs of future generations can be met. Green skills are often associated with sectors that will play a major role in reaching net zero greenhouse gas emissions by 2050, such as power, home heating, waste and resources. Upskilling workers will be necessary to address the green skill shortages as well as increasing the workforce in each sectors. It has also been reported that there is low public awareness of green skills and the available training options. This has also been attributed to inconsistent definitions for green skills. Evidence suggests that developing green skills will be achieved mainly by upskilling the current workforce and will require all components of the education system to play a role in increasing awareness of green career paths. The Commission is mindful, this item will cover an update on the plan scope and work by the Green Skills and Circular Economy Commission led by the Council and how this work will link into the Council's Economic Development Plan. Previously we have heard a lot of thinking at this Commission about the setting up of the Commission and the ideas behind it, so I think the Committee is really keen to hear the kind of progress which you have set out clearly in your presentation and also a more concrete idea of when the Commission will actually be constituted. So over to Dijon, are you starting the presentation? Or actually just Councillor Williams, would you like to speak first? Yeah, I thought it would be really helpful just to say a few words from the perspective as the lead member for employment, HR and the policies. So thank you for inviting us to the Squeakley Commission tonight. I think it's the third Commission meeting that we've been to to speak about the Green Skills Manifesto commitment. There is going to be, as you will imagine, a considerable amount of work that needs to be done to get the Green Skills economy to where they need to be in order to be able to seize the opportunities that we've heard from the Green Skills economy as it emerges. And we can't really afford to leave any community behind, but it's a transition, so that economy takes shape. So we've already seen what happens in communities where they are left behind. In the 70s and 80s, we saw that I'd never make any secret that I'm from Nottingham and I was around at the time of the miners' strike. I was an adult at the time of the miners' strike, so I saw the impacts then on the villages in and around Nottinghamshire. And they did, it was a chaotic transition and entire areas of Nottinghamshire were left behind. They are still today struggling from that transition. We see here in Hackney what happens when there was a difficult transformation and given rise to the Diversity and Tech Commission as well, we've had to do work to try and get as many residents as possible to benefit from the opportunities that that economy delivers. And it's exactly the same sort of work that we're going to need to do for Green Skills as well. So our goal in Hackney isn't to be on the wrong side of history, it's to make sure that we are at the forefront of creating new, good quality jobs that provide opportunities for our residents. London's commitment to net zero is really about, is more than just meeting the climate targets. It's also about security, securing a place in what is a global economy. For Hackney residents we need to build pathways into the green economy and help each of our residents achieve the outcomes from the inclusive economy objectives. We need to address inequalities and deep-rooted inequities in our society. It will be future-proof Hackney, it will also future-proof London. It will make us resilient and make our residents resilient as we grow toward a decarbonised economy and it will also enable us to strengthen collaboration between London government, central government, as well as sectors such as housing, transport and infrastructure. So incredibly important piece of work that we are taking on here. Just want to touch on the term Green Skills and I'm sure that all of us in the room will have some sort of consensus as to what that means. However, for our residents it doesn't really make sense, nor does it make sense. Many of the concepts can be a little abstract and it's really distant, it doesn't really resonate with their day-to-day lives so we need to reframe the discussion so that they understand what it is we are working towards and there are already sectors that they know, they will understand, plumbing, kitchen, electricians. These are all economies that already exist and it's about updating and upskilling those employees within those sectors. So to deliver on the manifesto commitment we'll need to think about how we deliver opportunities and adapt our understanding and as we move forward it's going to be an iterative process and so I think it will be really helpful if the Commission could continue to invite us back to make sure we keep an eye on the progress of this work as we go through that iterative process. We need to be at the forefront to deliver outcomes that directly benefit our residents. We've already begun raising awareness for them on the opportunities that are currently available and that will become available and as Nicola will speak to for example the 135 places that are planned for green skills courses in recycling, repair and reuse as well as certification for retrofit. Our adult learning team is also actively pushing for progress and pathways to ensure people can continue to grow and develop their skills. And the final point that I want to just make for summary I want to the summary point I want to make before handing over to officers for the presentation is that this is more than just meeting climate targets about creating good jobs, it's so that no community is left behind. We want to build pathways and establish established industries and ensure that Hackney residents regardless of their backgrounds have access to stable jobs. Thank you. Thank you Councillor Williams, that was a really good intro so I think now I can pass over to Dijon or Nicola, sorry Nicola for the presentation. Thank you. If we've got 10 minutes. The next slide. So we're applying the central London forwards a practical mission-based definition of what green jobs are. And green jobs are any jobs that facilitate meeting net zero and broader environmental goals. So we're not constrained really. So the employment skills and adult learning team, our aim is to strengthen the local jobs and skills ecosystem in the green economy. So we need to raise community awareness about opportunities in the sector, build skills and provide accessible pathways into skills and jobs so everyone can benefit. I'm replicating much of what Councillor Williams just said. So what I'd like to do, this presentation will take you through our current status. So where we are today and the work plan to take this work forward. So it's remarkable that 2014 is the JLL's target for London to be net zero and 2014 target for Hackney Council functions to be net zero. With this in mind our immediate focus as an employment and skills team is supporting the people already in the workforce. So this approach will evolve as we make progress. We will start thinking about future workforce. So we're kind of practical and targeted on outcomes I think at this stage. So our approach to capture the opportunities and address the barriers for our residents is through partnership networks and collaborations. We can't do this work alone. It is an ecosystem. It's joined up working. It goes from community organisations, grassroots residents, connections, educational skills in the community through to work experience directly through the job. So there's pathways that we're creating and we want it to be all joined up. We want Hackney to be at the forefront of the inclusive green transition and demonstrate those journeys to best practice working and initiatives. The next slide please. So here I want to speak a bit about where we already are. So the green skills and sector of parliament commission whilst we've been deciding how to take this forward we've been doing a lot of work on the ground already and one of our major achievements I think is the build a skill centre partnership. So this is a real tangible skills through to job partnership but I'll let Dijon do a deep dive on that after I've spoken. So skills and qualifications we're doing things right now. So for instance 50 residents have already completed accredited green skills courses and Councillor Williams talked about inclusion. So participants in our adult learning workers are 85% from black and global majority communities, 68% of them because they're concerned in closing the pay gap for women, 32% are men, 31% are over 50 and 30% from background so special education needs. When my next skills offer is 135 learning places for upcoming courses and I think what's compelling here is that the first ones recycle repair and reuse and the basic DIY is kind of circular economy focused and they have no prerequisites so they're not accredited but they're suitable for people with special education needs. So again we want everybody to be on this green skills journey and we're demonstrating it here through our skills offer. The next level so an award in construction, energy efficiency and sustainability, health and safety, these are all level one skills opportunities. That means people will get qualification within this space and then last on my list is a certificate in retrofit so that's a level two, more specialized and it's a progression path. So we're already thinking and delivering pathways for residents. We're raising awareness you can see that much of our offer is in the built environment so construction, net zero, new build because for Hackney very much of the early opportunity is within that space so we're actively trying to capture but we're not limited to that. We're thinking about three horizons for this work. So the last item on the skills list is the festival of learning. Here adult learning developed multiple workshops at kind of community grassroots level and as a following so 133 people signed up for this and each of those persons as an outcome of this sign up was contacted directly to get information advice and guidance about the next courses that they could connect with. So again it's very hands-on if someone shows interest we're then helping them take their next step in this journey. My fourth column I'm talking about green construction work placements. So again this is a grassroots partnership with WICA as a community organization who are dealing with young people from underrepresented backgrounds who are far from the job market and they're giving them a taster in a sector that is going to grow. So we're meeting people where they are so I think this work placement might be like five hours a week or something so people will just have that experience get the taste be successful you know we're not setting them up for a challenge. Information advice and guidance training so our own employment advisors have been up-skilled so that when they're dealing with the community they're better able to support residents interested in this space. And then lastly I've got the opportunities and skills gap analysis this is a work stream that's been ongoing being tracking the data tracking opportunities understanding the skills gaps since 2021 and you'll find the link in this report about where we're netting out on what the opportunities are. So next slide. That's kind of an overview of the skills work experience and links to job that we've already got in place. So identifying opportunities and skills gap I've got a link to the the detailed report here but I won't deep dive now just it goes too deep so let's stay at a different level. So then we're talking about the commission itself and what's different here is that typically a commission is an investigation followed by recommendations and here I feel that we're rather in delivery mode first we're testing and learning delivery we're connecting with our residents with specific offers and I I'm recommending that we use existing scrutiny committees to keep track of our work rather than setting up a separate scrutiny body but this work well whilst we're in delivery mode. Then my next work stream is to develop strategic partnerships which again I'll let Dijon pick up. So the first one is again to build a skills to job partnership but we'll be working with educational organizations, schools, community groups. So again it's a joined up ecosystem to connect with people and connect them to opportunities. So the green skills hub again I've already spoken about that one but it's it's underway. So next slide, slide five. An innovation pilot is the circular economy zone. This is interesting in the work that the regeneration team are already doing. They're working with SMEs within Hackney and what we the idea here is that we connect these SMEs and local employers who've got a hub of interest if you will. It's like a zone where there's critical mass of people within the circular economy space and we want to engage these businesses or employers directly, get them involved in career events and workshops to educate and excite residents about the kind of work that they're doing and much of this work will go beyond the build environment and retrofit and so on. Often they're working in recycling fabrics and things so here we're having breath that will engage a wider set of residents I think because what resonates with people is what's my real opportunity. So we won't talk about green skills but we'll talk about real businesses, real skills that people are using and make it more tangible I think. It's not the hypothetical green skills chat. We also have in mind that we would do a hyper local around this circular economy zone. So there will be adjacent, can I just say you've got another minute, I've got a minute, adjacent estates and communities and we want to link, often people feel separate from business environments so we want to again this is quite compelling, we want to bring people right in and create those direct connections between communities and businesses. What else is most important? Mapping provision and access. When we talk about the ecosystem we want to make sure that we understand where the opportunities are in Hackney. So a geographical map of skills providers, employers, community groups. So are we mapping deprivation and need with the offer? So that's something else we're going to be thinking about. Then each one of these work streams is underpinned by communication. And it takes a while to build a story and a brand and engage residents in this offer. And finally community engagement. Once we've kind of delivered and we feel like we've got traction, then we'll do a deep dive with residents. So focus groups, listening exercises with underrepresented communities to understand their views on what we've been doing, the green jobs, their training needs and barriers. Again our comms needs to be about the benefit of green jobs, case studies, role models and pathways. So we want, again it's peer to peer communication, we want residents that have been successful in this space to be telling other residents about how they got there, what they've been doing. Okay lovely, thank you very much. That was very comprehensive and we very much heard the kind of tangible work that you're kind of doing on the whole basis. I suppose I'll just start by just responding to I think what you inferred in your presentation, that you don't foresee there will be a commission as such in the way that was originally envisaged. But am I right in thinking you seem to be saying that scrutiny could have a bigger role in kind of looking at the progress of this? Or have I misinterpreted that? So I think it's a piece by piece journey. Right now I'm asking us not to set up an independent scrutiny for this commission because it doesn't follow the typical model. But I do see us as we progress on this journey, it's not, let's say then we need to go deep with our residents but we need to get traction first. So typically building a brand, telling a story, getting people engaged is around two years. And then we speak like what do you think about what we've done? What would you like to see done differently? So then we get input and refine our strategy and what we're doing. Can you add to that council in terms of the manifesto commitment? So when we did the diverse team tech work, I think that's a model that we've all been focused on, the Green Skills Commission. So we set up a commission, we have experts around the table, we do a bit of research, we make recommendations. Your Futures, Diversity Tech, they all followed the same sort of model. I think the proposal here that Nicola is talking about is because of lack of awareness, because of the work that we need to do, I think with industry, but also with residents understanding and unpicking what green skills are, and the sorts of industries that we would want to focus on and in what order, that model has been turned on its head. So what Nicola is describing is doing a piece of work. So with the adult learning, they have done a series of tasters for adult, what was the adult learning program called? The Tasters? Well, they had a festival of learning. Thank you. So we've done a festival of a series of events on festival of learning and bringing the community along with us, bringing the residents who might want to be interested or could potentially be interested in jobs in the green economy, explaining what green jobs are, and what that upskilling piece might look like for existing jobs. That's the work that is the focus currently. And down the line, we will get to a point where we are able to establish a commission. Doesn't mean that there isn't going to be a commission. Okay. It's the order in which we do the work in order to establish that commission. Okay, I think that is clear. Okay, I'd like to hand over to the rest. So I'm looking in order. So I think I'll start with Councillor Sadek first. Do you want to go ahead? Thanks, this is just very quick follow on on that point. You mentioned two years, two years of work leading up to the commission. I just wondered where we would be at this point on that measure. Just, you know, roughly. We haven't done an official launch. So I think there's something about signalling to the community that is a piece of work that's done. So making like having clarifying, what are we calling this? What are we focused on? Like which jobs? Getting a press release and announcement. So whilst we've been doing the work, I think we need to officially launch it and start talking about it. So the reason I'm saying two years to build a brand is because that's what we saw with the Lyft programme. We partnered on diversity in tech. Do you know what the lift programme is? We had another partnership where there were skills and jobs in digital tech, but it took that piece of work two years to get traction, to get known for people to understand what they were doing. So that's my benchmark. Anyway, I want to add anything before I go on to the next question. There's a huge amount of work actually that's already been done, or it's being done to around research and to greenstone. So we've commissioned a bit of our own, like Nick will be linked to your presentation, so you've got the link to that. And there's kind of London-wide, central London forwards, GLA kind of work going on here. So in terms of that kind of mapping exercise, we're kind of trying to pull all that together, all the world, pull all that together, and distill that in terms of what are the opportunities in happening. But crucially, also, what are the opportunities in London, because you know, we want our residents to be able to access opportunities across London. So there's a lot of work going on in this space, I think it's encouraging. And so it's just about kind of distilling that slightly before we have too many conversations. It's even bigger than we would need to be speaking to our partners, speaking to organisations that we already know are working in this area, which I think Nick recovered on the presentation as well. And then I guess I should just mention that the kind of pattern development plan, another part of my service working on the Scootaloo commission, updates on the development plan, that's a kind of key document to really set out where we want to go on this agenda and hackney what are our priorities for green skills, what were the areas that we really want our residents to be skilled in. Probably not huge, this is a bad example, but being able to fix kind of a wind farm is not a great example in the hackney of London, because we've not got many of those. So it's kind of really making sure that we are, you know, focusing on valuable tangible experience that are going to be relevant in the long run. EV charges might be another example. So if I can just follow on from that. Yeah, there is, I think it's really important to remember the previous two visits to the commission and the presentations that were given then, so this work has been going on for quite some time with Nicola at the helm, I think for the majority of it, if not all of it. So to answer your question, Councillor Dixit, the timeline might look a bit hazy. But the timeline has been incredibly lengthy. As Suzanne was saying, there's a lot of work across London and the sub-regional partnership. I chair the skills board of Section London Forward. It has been a focus there. I sit on the Mayor of London skills board. It's been a focus there. So at every level of London government, there has been a focus on green skills. The current Deputy Mayor of London just today was giving a presentation on London's growth plan. And that includes a strand on green skills as well. And so there are constantly conversations. And I think that everyone, all levels of London government are making their way around this agenda. And it is incredibly challenging how we talk about it, how residents understand it, how each one's residents understand it, how businesses understand green skills, and how we can talk about it that makes it relevant to the current jobs that we wanted to see in the labour market. And that's the bit that we're currently grappling with here in the house. Okay. I'm kind of going to try and bring, we're going to close this item by eight. So I'm going to try and bring everybody in. People can be as concise as possible. I know everybody here has their hands raised. Am I correct? So I'm going to start over at Councillor Smith and I'm coming to Councillor Hannon. So Councillor Smith, unless anybody's got a follow-on. All this work is really great. We're in the right place. We're doing the right things. It's all fantastic. I really encourage the words, forefront of the green transition, you know, unpicking what the skills are. The concept is abstract. You're right, it is abstract. On the working with Central London Forward, could we, is there any chance of joining with the London Chamber of Commerce, the North London Chamber of Commerce? Where are we with that? Because they're doing a lot of work as well. So I just wanted to kind of highlight that and maybe just investigate, maybe if we could maybe work together with those two things. On the green skills stuff, I do agree with the fact that it is abstract. I've always felt, coming to this commission, that I've always asked what the green jobs actually are. And that's the issue that everyone's trying to sort of resolve and come together on what they are. Some examples that I've got here, energy efficiency auditors, solar panel installers, green building consultants, ecology and biodiversity officers, recycling coordinators, waste reduction specialists, circular economy consultants, bicycle mechanics, electric vehicle charging point installers. Some of these have been mentioned. The list goes on. Urban farmers, energy managers for local businesses and council buildings. I think all of these, we just need to see them written down. And I think it would really help the community as well to see what these actual jobs are. And when we put it in straightforward language like that, we kind of have a better idea of what we're talking about. On the skills, we've got skills... Kate, can you be tight with your question? Sorry. I think you can make your point. Do you mind me saying and just... Yeah. So on the skills, the same thing would apply. Solar panel installation and maintenance skills, energy auditing and building retrofit skills, smart energy system management, passive house design principles. It goes on and on and on. There's lots and lots of skills there, but they're all named. So I think you indicated some of the areas in terms of the programmes of work, but obviously Council Smith has come out with a far, you know, a much more comprehensive list. So what you're asking for is, can there be a more definite list, which is helpful. So I think it's really difficult to go with any sort of definite list. This is one of the reasons why I mentioned plumbing, electrician construction. And these are sectors that residents will already understand, the sectors that we already have people working in them. But if you were to say, for example, to an electrician, green skills, upskill to green skills, they may not necessarily understand the agenda as we describe it in these kinds of political forums. So it's really important to talk in terms that they will understand and the jobs that they're already doing. Another one that I might add to the list is finance. And we don't always think of finance in terms of green skills. But we have to have people who are skilled at green finance in order to deliver the sort of agenda that we're talking about. As well, we have to have experts in the council on green skills policy. So these are jobs that already exist that we they already have names that everyone understands. But we do have so many. So we've got to start talking about the jobs that currently exist. Was your first question answered that I will sorry, I know, you know, I've had a finance question follow up, but then I'll come to you. Was your first question answered? Yeah, yeah, I mean, absolutely. I think, basically, I'm just requesting a little bit more detail on the specifics really, that's all. I talked about mapping the ecosystem. So a list of jobs that are out there is less relevant to our residents than specific opportunities that they connect to. So for instance, if we've got skills and learning offers that lead to a certain job, if that resonates, so I think that we should map out offers like skills offers, job offers, that they can genuinely connect to, rather than a long list that might not necessarily be an opportunity here in Hackney. Or may not make any relevance. Yeah, but I think you need to be aware of the long list before you can do the short list is what I mean. So can I just say very quickly, the Chamber of Commerce comment wasn't answered. If you can, because I really do need to move on to more questions. I've made a note, because we're talking about networks and partnerships. So that's definitely how we're tackling this. And I'll just go away and double check because we have had a couple of roundtables at subregional partnership level. And I'm pretty certain Chamber of Commerce was there. So, Professor Marcus, your little comment quickly with your finance. Yeah, two points. I think just picking up what Gilbert just said and your response to it. I think what seems to be the case here is that the way that you present this to us is going to be very different to the way you present to residents. As I think it is you said that, Councillor Williams. And I think what would be interesting and probably helpful on the back of Gilbert's question is, from our perspective, that list of what the agreed jobs are on those green scale outputs, which I think you tried to do here. And I think we just have to keep those two audiences in mind, I think, as we sort of tackle this from our side. My question was specifically about green finance. It says in the report that green finance jobs are going to make up over half of the green jobs in central and by 2050. That's a huge proportion of what we're talking about here. I think sort of finance is one of the areas that you've highlighted. It's probably more than others prone to sort of accusations in terms of kind of greenwashing. You'll get big investment firms. They'll have a few kind of green programs or they'll invest in a climate foundation or something like that, while at the same time being heavily invested and heavily profiting from industries and sectors much less green. What are some of the things that are kind of green finance jobs by kind of the definition you're working with? What do those jobs look like? And how are you ensuring that that definition is strict enough that it really does focus on the truly green finance jobs? Nearly 100 percent of the green finance jobs are in the square mile and they're not here in Hackney. And I wonder, so it's just it's typical that a financial analyst role, they've always been existing, except these roles now focus on this subsector, the green economy. So I don't at this point, I don't know that we will be doing a lot to promote roles because we can't go directly to those jobs. So definitely it's a huge opportunity, but it's a high skill opportunity and it's over there rather than right here. So I'm not being facetious about it, but that might be something that we don't focus on. If I could just add that, I mean, I think we do find it a bit surprising that there's such the great proportion when actually the people on the ground doing the practical stuff, you've already alluded to the plumbers and the electricians, they're already working to net zero jobs really because they're already doing work that contributes to making buildings more energy efficient. So why aren't all those numbers in there? It just seems a bit kind of out of kilter that all the finance people are listed under green skills, but all the construction workers are not. So it just sounds, yeah, it just, those kind of definitions of those categories would be really useful. It's in the deep dive. So I've got a link. We've done the work, it's really deep dived in there. So all the jobs that you talked about, where these specific opportunities are in Hackney, what the employers are looking for. So it's not in this presentation because it looks like this and this and this, but it is in the Word document. It would be quite helpful to pull it out and send the direct link to you. Yes, I think so, yeah. Thank you. Sue, Dan? That's okay. It's just, it's really a reflection on the wider economy, you know, the majority, I guess, proportion of the economy is in professional services, financial tech sectors. So, you know, some of the jobs are green. That's where, that goes out from the London wider context, what the London economy is made up of. It's not kind of Hackney specific. That's London wide stats, basically. Okay, thank you. Thank you. I think I know your questions answered, Councillor now, of course. Thank you, Chair. Just a point on some of the green jobs you mentioned, and mapping and public awareness, whether there's a narrative behind all this and whether we really work with the narrative, such as, you know, in 10 years' time, in 15 years' time, the following jobs will be redundant. They'll no longer be applicable. You're not going to be able to, you know, fulfill a career within those jobs unless, you know, you kind of convert yourself or your abilities into the green type of jobs, whether there's a narrative behind all of that, I think it may be worth considering that. And secondly, we are restricted in terms of our job, but there are other local authorities who are not, whether there is any cross-working with some local authorities in some major infrastructure projects, green infrastructure projects. And are there any examples that you can give us, at least the start? If I could touch on this, Dijon, because that is to build a partnership. It's all the infrastructure that's going on around the Olympic Park. Dijon? Yeah, sorry, I'll answer your first question, because it links in terms of response to a second question. So in terms of the narrative, how narrative is being built, it's being built off the back of data specifically. So our strategic partnerships, and our partnership kind of specifically with BuildEast, that stems from a long-standing operational partnership that we've had with them to deliver our skills in general around construction in the borough, working with the NLDC, to essentially run or manage the BuildEast and the Skills Centre. That's developed from an operational partnership into a strategic partnership that's essentially, you know, it's underpinned by a collaborative research base. So they've delivered a consultant and a research base that shows us the number of jobs that are required right now, for example, and over the next year to two years in fabric design and wall installation. So in total, the retrofit jobs is about 1,900 over the next year. 1,300 of those 1,900 are specifically in cavity design and installation. Those roles don't require any formal qualification. So the narrative behind why we're talking about the jobs that we're talking about now, and then the phase of talking about the jobs later, and talking about finance later, is about how we build different pipelines. There's a pipeline directly now into jobs that are effectively there now and that people can go into with very little lead time, not necessarily needing to have an accredited qualification. And we're doing this to make sure that we're building the pipelines and building opportunities we could go into in a fair and equal way. If we look at green finance, for example, and Suzanne alluded to this, as did everyone else, the majority of those roles that are affecting green finance are already finance roles that are now just working on, reporting on essentially what a company's financial offsets are on green. That's not going to create new jobs and potentially could just compound the inequality in finance already if we look to articulate to people that these are the jobs that you could go into, because the reality, the access to jobs in finance, the completely unequal, you know, the demography of, represented demography of the finance industry looks at one person effectively, and that's reflected in green in general. So the narrative is that, you know, the problem that we're facing in terms of combating net zero targets is compounded by one, you know, the richest 1% of the world, poorest communities are most adversely affected. So our narrative is that we're building pathways and pipelines by working in partnership with organisations like Buildeth, like CLF and Chamber of Commerce, I got really bad for it, Chamber of Commerce involved in our work with CLF. The narrative is built based on the fact we've got research that tells us this is how many jobs are available now, how many are going to be available in two years. So we're building our pipeline of skills provisions now for people to get a job now, but also looking beyond the now and into the five, 10 year time, what do we need to be doing to be preparing individuals to be able to access roles that if they apply for them right now, for whatever reason, whether it be lack of skills, or whether it just be the lack of representation, which we want to make it harder for someone to secure a role, we want to build our interventions, our pipelines and our services in a way which we can essentially disrupt what is an unequal and underrepresented sector as it is, very similar to what we saw with diversity in tech and digital tech, very similar to what we've seen with arts and so on and so forth, but what we have now, we're in a position to really understand for all the research that's being done by us, but also by the wider ecosystem of organisations, literally person hours, how many person hours are going to be required to get into a certain role or a certain industry within Green Skills, so we can then essentially almost like at a theory of change, understand what the outcome is here, and what do we need to do now to be preparing people for the jobs and whatever else it will be in five years' time to get fair and equal access as opposed to, and I really do respect the ideation of listing as many jobs as possible, but we understand from a skills perspective, what that does sometimes lead to is a multitude of individuals applying for jobs that they stand very little chance of actually getting into if we don't remove the seen and unseen barriers that are in the way of getting into those jobs in the first place. And on the second point, joined working with other local authorities in major projects, you mentioned Stratford Policy Park. Yes, so Build East partnership is, that's another example of that, so London Legacy Development Corporation is a group of the four clusters and that Build East is there because of the London Legacy Development Corporation, our work with them has been looking at fabric design and been looking at commissioning them to deliver specific courses, so in the presentation of the 135 courses, a large chunk of those are delivered with Build East. That's done in collaboration with the other boroughs in London Legacy Development Corporation and Newham Power Hamlets ourselves and Waltham Forest, but in addition to that, and Nicola mentioned LIFT which is leading inclusive future through technology, we're also working with Islington and Camden and that's around digital and tech, but we're looking at life sciences in the same way we're developing these partnerships across London and also looking at Hammersmith, also looking at Westminster, so we're working with as many partners as possible to look at how we can deliver these things across London because we understand that essentially having a hackly only focus is going to bring us a limited amount of impact for our region. I mean those are helpful, but my question was more about not London boroughs, outside boroughs and more infrastructure type of projects, you know, wind power, solar power projects and things like that, a bit more do we kind of think about those as well in the future or you just simply confine ourselves into London boroughs and our cooperation with London boroughs? I, largely, it's a London hackney focus because part of our philosophy is work local, so when we look at the next generation, it puts that going into schools, I think might be having different conversations then because the scope of opportunity for person in the education system and where they might direct their energy will be different to the scope or where a person already in the workforce might direct their energy, so I think this narrative evolves and what we talk about will evolve, but right now we're saying people right now, what jobs can we connect you with so we want to, we're creating financial resilience, we want to make a difference in people's lives today and then prepare people to have different lives tomorrow. It's a journey and our narrative will evolve as we get smarter in this space. I think this nicely segues into Kate Pinkston wanting to ask some questions in relation to education. Thank you, yes, so in the presentation you mentioned about planning, sort of work in progress about organising careers events and workshops to raise awareness, educate businesses and so on and then I guess sort of similar work is mentioned more broadly in terms of community engagement and targeted communications, so conducting focus groups, collaborating with community organisations and so on, so I guess I just wanted to ask any updates on sort of progress on that, are there any you know schools you've made links with or community organisations you're partnering and any successes so far with that work, just yeah further updates on that sort of engagement please. The Festival of Learning, there were about 30 partners involved in that, so providers, community organisations, libraries, so much of our work is, it's just not worked, we don't deliver without partners I don't think, so we've had career days, we've had the Festival of Learning but we need to ramp up this effort because I think one of the things is to agree on our sector focus, I think much of the chat here is where we focus your efforts and a lot of the first horizon effort will be on the built environment, so construction net zero and so on because we can connect to real jobs in those sectors but there will, so green skills to residents means nothing, it's what job am I going to get, which started from where you were at, really what job will I have and the green thing is a political construct that doesn't resonate, so we have to be tangible, we have to be real and we have to evolve the narrative and the opportunities, I'm quite excited with the circular economy zone because that takes us into a different space, so getting women involved in roles in construction might be, that's a targeted campaign because what construction is missing funnily enough is data analysts, so they're working on green projects but we might have a cool job for them, so I think we need to come back and tell you how this thinking has evolved, how the roles are broad and applicable, how we're talking about this at career fairs and so on, I think there's one more step in getting more tangible that would make it and I think the point that someone made here was, the conversation we're having with you is different to the one that we're going to have with residents and I think some of that work would be compelling to think about what we're doing, I don't think so, so I think it's just, there'll always be partnerships you'll be working on and I guess similar to the list, you can't provide just a list of jobs in a similar way, you can't provide a list of these are our partners but there's always our, everything that you're doing is with community partners and school partners and stuff. I think that we, really thank you for your question and I think we probably need to be a little bit more creative in the way that we think about that and talk about that not only with the commission but the wider community where we are entering new partnerships because I think it's an incredibly important point and one that we haven't, we can explore much more. I suppose, sorry, I guess the question is well about the focus groups and the listening sessions, so has work started on that private community engagement? We genuinely think that many residents, the term green skills isn't in people's consciousness and I think we need to ground it with some offers, have some interactions, start the engagement and then deep dive with maybe some of the people that we've engaged or the ones that we haven't but it's, I think it's too early because of the lack of awareness. I think, I'm sorry, Dijon? Yeah, just to kind of bookend Nick's point, it's about how we consult with our residents and engagement. We've done some work in partnership with UCO at The Graphic Labs about essentially how people use our services and how we consult them and it was very eye-opening in terms of, you know, bottom out our level of assumptions and how we engage, so it's really important that we do that and that's what we're looking at now with how we do design our engagement and co-produce and co-design our engagement with the community and all of the partners that we're talking about to make sure that it's as effective and as relatable to as many stakeholders and audiences as possible because as Nicholas just stated, we are talking about a subject by the head that a lot of the people that we want to reach and intervene in their kind of career life cycle, they don't resonate with green skills, they don't know what it is and they're not really going to care because, you know, the thing is about their livelihoods and about where they can get a job that can sustain them, so designing how we do the engagement I think is as important or more so, more important than looking into the engagement, we do have lists of partners and we do have styles of engagement we use but we want to consult and co-produce to do that effectively. Thank you, if I can just bring this, I'll come back to you Councillor Williams, if we are going to bring this item to a close, I think we very much hear the kind of feedback you're giving about green and skills and how they relate to residents and, you know, that's something very strong we take on board, there's so much work going on, I mean, what's very clear to the Commission is that there's a lot of strength, strength here in your, you know, progress towards the kind of outcomes we want and we also hear about your, the way you kind of envisage the kind of Commission kind of further down the line, so, and I was really pleased to hear about the way you were aligning with, you know, the London Grove Plan, the Economic Development Plan work you talked about, you know, the work of London, et cetera, you answered my questions before I asked about that, so I think the final word, I would like to go to Councillor Williams and just see whether, any thoughts you have on the kind of vision and as you have gone through the process in terms of the political lead and, you know, the journey that Hackney Council is on, on this? It's been a long journey, I think it's really easy to make a manifesto commitment and when you get into delivering on that manifesto commitment, you find out that actually there's probably a different way of doing it and it will bring the outcomes that we're actually looking for. I do want to just pay tribute to the work that Nicola has done and also Councillor Pinkerton to just say that Nicola has previously delivered the Diversity in Tech commission and so really does have hands-on experience at doing that co-production and working with residents and eliciting from them the sorts of responses that they want to give to us rather than the ones that we want to hear. And we can do it the traditional way, the way that we have previously done it and I think it's taken me a long time to get to the point where where I've been able to accept that actually you probably need to do it a different way. So the delivery of the work from the ground up is proving to be incredibly important and valuable for us, for what we learn and delivering real outcomes and making a difference in people's working lives and I think that's what's really key. I think in terms of Green Finance I'm not quite sure that I agree with the officers. We have history of delivering in all sorts of sectors that might seem far from those that our residents would traditionally navigate towards. We've got to create those pathways, we have those levers available to us and we can and we should be doing that. I'd be surprised if our own finance team don't have to get to grips with Green Skills and Green Finance so it's coming our way whether we want it or not. But huge amounts of work that has been done we're not at the position of launching the commission in the way that I would have initially thought about, we thought we would deliver it but as you identified a huge amount of work has gone on not only in Hackney but across the capital and also on the sub-regional partnership. So much work has gone on but you are only really seeing the tip of the iceberg and it is very difficult to show you anything more than the tip of the iceberg at this stage but I'm sure that soon you will get either full glimpse of the work that officers have spent a huge amount of time on. Right, okay so I'd like to thank Dijon, Councillor Williams, Nicola and Suzanne for coming to this item it's been really useful for you to come and talk to the commission. You're welcome to stay but you're also welcome to leave if you want your evening back. My lungs are telling me to come. So we'll just have a minute for a changeover. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I'd like to welcome officers for this item. Thank you very much for attending. So we have Geri McCarthy, we've got Samantha, David Tuitt and Councillor Susan Fajana-Thomas. I'll just read a little introduction and I'll go to you Councillor Fajana-Thomas if you would like to have you know the first word. Okay this is item five and it's on licensing and the night time economy and we have 15 minutes for this item so we should end this item by five to nine and this also includes Q&A. We are running 10 minutes behind. If we do make up time that's fine but don't want to put pressure on you but I will keep to those 50 minutes. Okay so the night time economy makes a significant contribution to Hackney's local economy and employment. Whilst the night time economy is significant this committee commission is also aware that it could have a negative impact on the local community in the surrounding areas. Prior to the pandemic Skills Economy and Growth Community Commission was exploring the growth of the night time economy to assess what the council could do to ensure the needs of residents and businesses were balanced to enable the night time economy to continue to thrive. Since this initial piece of work was far back as 2018, nine time, 19, the night time economy has experienced really big shocks hasn't it? We've had the pandemic, the cost of you know the business operating costs have gone up, economic downturn, obviously pressures of climate change, cost of living crisis etc. All of these challenges have impacted on the number of businesses, types of business and how the sector operates. So the purpose of this item is to review the work of the licensing service in this sphere to understand how the council can or not, can or is using its licensing powers to support manifest those commitments and I know we're also aware there are commitments about night time economy strategy which you've alluded to in your report so it would be good to hear your thinking on that. Who am I looking to for this? Thanks to Linda for looking at this area of the council work around the night time economy importantly licensing. Just want to stress to members that licensing is governed by legislation which include the licensing are 20, 2 or 3 and other laws. So in terms of licensing, looking at licensing, we are very constrained around what we can do using that licensing power as a local authority because the majority of things we do or when we are looking at licensing needs to sit within the four licensing objectives of preventing crime, disorder, protecting children and ensuring public safety. Anything outside of that it is difficult to do but we do have which is why we've got the ACME nights very proud of what we have as ACME 90D's. Many other areas in the UK are looking to duplicating the area because of the way we are using the night time economy, the ACME night both as part of the building and obligations when it comes to enforcement around licensing, making sure we look at residents coming in as well as being able to support businesses to thrive in that borough. Sam's presentation will talk more about this. The last thing to just mention is members will know that we there was two strong commitments around the nighttime economy in the 2022 which is around developing our ACME night strategy which as Jane mentioned that's what we are doing at the moment as well as making sure that we continue to do something more. I'd really like to leave you to the work at the nighttime side of this. Thank you very much. I'll stop there. I also noticed the team were out quite recently talking to residents and businesses as well. I noticed that. Okay so over to you. Thank you so much. So yes I'm Sam Mathes. So I manage the ACME night scheme in ACME and I'm joined by David here who we work very closely together. He's the team leader for licensing. If you could go to the next slide please. So ACME is home to a very special nighttime economy. We are one of the boroughs with the most licensed premises preceded only by Westminster and on par with southern Camden and Lambeth. We have the largest number of grassroots music venues of any borough and ACME is often referred to across Europe as an important part of the London cultural landscape. Next slide please. So we've also been highlighted in a recent report published by the GLA in March 2024. The main takeaways being that when looking at the entire Thursday to Saturday period we are one of the boroughs with the highest visitor numbers at night. ACME is busier at night than during the day on Saturdays with four percent more football from 9 p.m. to midnight followed only by Tower Hamlets. We have the highest amount of card payments at night compared with other boroughs resulting in more than one third of all payments being made at night on our high streets and Shoreditch is also the third most visited area at night preceded only by the West End and Covent Garden. Next slide please. So all of this data I'm going through is from the High Streets Data Service and the Nighttime Observatory data from the GLA. Please note that the figures may include other boroughs in some of the town centres so areas like you'll see things we've parked there but the main things I want to kind of pull out of this slide is that Shoreditch is the area that attracts the most visits so we have about 400,000 people coming through Shoreditch every day. Dalston comes in at about 59,000 a day and Hackney Central is about 50,000. One thing to note is almost half of all the football in Hackney Central and Dalston happens between 6 p.m. and 6 p.m. Next slide please. So this slide demonstrates visitor workers split by High Street but Tracy if you go to the next slide it's a bit easier to read. Yes that's it. So on the slide this is the same data but it's outlayed by percentage. Shoreditch has the highest proportion of workers during the daytime. What's interesting here though is that the workforce average across the borough represents about 20% of the football at night so 80% is our visitors to the borough. We can also see that Stoke Newington has the highest percentage of workforce football at night and as you saw on the previous slide they have they have seen kind of drops in football after 6 p.m. Next slide please. Yes next slide. This data set shows the business offerings so one takeaway Hackney has a very high percentage of businesses which are independent 70% or higher and that is echoed throughout the nighttime economy. Some of our most successful businesses that operate at night are in the independent and I think that's something we should be really proud of. Our highest vacancy rates at the moment are in Shoreditch. There have been very high rent increases of late so it's making it harder for kind of younger business owners to set up shop there so we'll always find a higher amount of corporate businesses and chain businesses in that area. Next slide please. Thanks okay so post COVID recovery so actually only one permanent music venue has closed since 2018 and that's according to the Music Venue Trust report that was published in January of 2024. Nightclubs have been the hardest hit in Hackney as consumer trends have changed and we have seen some closures in that area. There is a huge shift towards experience led socializing, younger demos have changed in their relationship to nights out and we're seeing a drop in young people drinking so they're going out more for kind of that experience so whether that be performances, cultural activities, some sort of USP is drawing people to the night club. Technology also playing a significant role and our cultural venues in Hackney are doing better than the national picture, performing better than pubs, bars and clubs. Our restaurants are also thriving at the minute. Next slide please. So the challenges that businesses face, there's been a perfect storm of factors over the last few years. It has created a very hard landscape for business to operate in. The average music venue made 0.5% profit in 2022 according to the Music Venue Trust. Most nighttime businesses are surviving but they're not thriving. Cost of living, rising costs and the pandemic have had a big impact on our businesses with customer numbers dwindling and a changing economy. Businesses are having to adapt by varying their operation and license which can be a costly process and residents also are a lot more sensitive to noise post-pandemic. I think having the economy shut for such a long period of time has had an impact on resident expectations in that area. It's also harder for community grassroots and cultural venues to retain spaces when up against corporate interests especially in areas like shortage. Independent venues are often being left behind in new lease negotiations in those kind of situations. So although it's been harder, I know this is sounding a bit big, but actually I think Hackney has come out quite good when you look at other boroughs comparatively. We've had the least amount of closures across London. And I think that's partly due to some of the support we were able to provide upon the reopening. So we have saved, I think as part of the Hackney United scheme, we have saved about a dozen venues from closing and that's just through the support service and through signposting to other sort of available streams of support. So I think it is quite, we're doing okay I think is the answer to that. Next slide please. So Hackney Knights is our safety and regulation program. We have had a lot of success with the approach that we've taken there. And as Councillor pointed out, we had to have a lot of recognition, other places like Bristol, for instance, creating Bristol Knights. So a lot of the models across the UK have been modelled against the model we have here in Hackney. And we also have one of the strongest in the NT crime reduction partnerships in London, weekly meetings around the night-time economy with police and multiple services taking part in that and really taking a problem-solving approach to any issues that we face. All crimes and incidents are reviewed, actions are taken. We also have an excellent radio link system which links up the venues, the police, everyone on the ground on a night out. You can see on the graphs and shortage in Dalston as the program expanded, incidents have dramatically reduced. So we started rolling out the program really at the reopening of the night-time economy. And then we've seen the scheme dramatically increase to about 475 venues now who have taken us up on the scheme and have signed up to our online portal and resource hub. And you can see it correlates with the reduction in incidents that we've seen across the night-time economy. Next slide, please. So our in-house Hackney nights accreditation scheme created a framework for venues to strive towards. So we have one of the highest standards of operation across the UK. It's comparable to similar schemes like Best Bar None or Purple Flag, but I think we go one step further and incorporate more than just safety and licensing. It allows us to further deliver on the strategic plan of the council and includes climate action, health and well-being, inclusivity, diversity, London living wage, women's night safety charter, amongst others. And so that's not found in other schemes elsewhere. Accredited venues are held to a higher standard than simply the licensing objectives. We are now at just under 50 accredited venues with that number increasing on a consistent basis. And the scheme is incentivized. So participating venues will receive a reduction on their late-night levy fees for becoming accredited. Next slide, please. In 2023, sorry, in 2024 this year, we were awarded 20,000 from the Greater London Authority for our business-friendly regulation project. We've launched in January. So what it does, it provides an early notification system to venues when a report is made on their venue in terms of noise. And we have seen a reduction in repeat complaints due to that system. It also, we've been able to notify them ahead of any noise investigation kind of, you know, reducing the need for resources. Some of the time the problems are quite simple and easily rectified. Next slide, please. So you've got a couple more minutes. Yeah, I'm going to breeze through this. Just start talking. I don't know why it's not coming. So we also offer a new advice service. It's designed for those applying for licenses, but it's an opportunity for us to really embed compliance into their practices at an early stage. We get in, we do the face-to-face. They know us, they can come to us if they need support throughout the journey, if they have a question or they need any sort of help. We do take site visits and it's a very holistic approach, simplifying the process for businesses to encourage maybe younger or greener entrepreneurs to kind of set up shop here. Next slide, please. So the evening and nighttime strategy will set out. So that's the new piece of work we're working on as part of Hackney Nights. The strategy will set out the borough's strategic vision for the evening and nighttime. It provides guidance for the council, partner organizations and businesses to ensure the nighttime economy in the borough is encouraged to grow whilst ensuring it's sustainable. So it has to reflect the needs of residents, business workers. It has to be an inclusive economy having one clear vision, essentially. Next slide, please. We can skip to the next slide as well. I'll just breeze through it. Thanks. So the eternal working group has been set up and I'm leading this work with help from the economic development team. 14 different council services are involved in this piece of work. The chart here outlines the timeline. We're still in phase one, very early stages. The consultation closes on the 20th of October and we're about 1600 responses so far with more on the way. We're taking a very grassroots approach to this engagement strategy. Our night forum dates are also in the process of being set up. But obviously we want a representative group made up of residents, businesses, workers, community and cultural organizations, counselors, industry bodies. Everyone is invited to have a seat at the table. Next slide, please. So essentially we have four objectives, which I'll go through quickly. So objective one covers essentially public realm crime, harm prevention, women's night safety charter, things like leisure, night markets, alfresco, lighting, and of course I can't forget toilets. That's another part of the strategy. We'll also be looking at how we can better utilize our public spaces. Next slide. Objective two is all about growing the night economy, reducing red tape, making regulation business friendly, boosting local participation and skills matching with local people seeking employment. We're really keen to explore a local nightlife academy. So working with our colleagues in different services. Next slide. Transport will be another area we're looking at. Two of our nighttime economy areas are quite well served. We're looking to see how we can improve late night transport in Hackney Central, Hackney Wick, London Fields and Stoke Newton. And we're working with street scene regen and planning colleagues around this to present a business case of TFL. And last slide, please. Yes. And this last objective is all about looking at cultural investment and promotion. It will link into our cultural strategy, working closely with the culture team on this one. Access to culture is really important. So how do we increase local participation and access to that culture for people living in the borough. And I think that's about it. Thank you very much. I just want to emphasize last point is that the strategy development will take a very collaborative approach. So it's in line with the same ethos we used for the Hackney night scheme. As we're at the start of this project, these objectives might change based on the engagement that we're doing and what comes out of the night forum. So this isn't set in stone because we want it to be collaborative. So, yeah, just keep that in mind. Thank you. Thank you, Sam. Thank you for the presentation. It's really useful and also for the work that goes on by all of you in this room. Hackney night scheme, and I'll see the kind of leading work you've done on that, but also the responsible business work, making the night forum much safer for women and all that work that you do on resident engagement too. Okay. So with that, I think we'll start on questions. How's August coming first? Thank you, Jeff. I work on the strategy and you work on the work you're doing on the strategy because it's important to address some of the issues. I think it's really good to have a vibrant nighttime economy that we are all proud of, but it's also important to take into account some of the issues that creates for other residents and people who are not involved in the nighttime economy, but who are also business owners. I say this from experience. My office is based in Shoreditch and I can tell you every morning turning up to my office, because I've been there for more than 15 years, I know lots of residents and people stop and complain and show me the rubbish on the floor and people being sick on the pavement. And I think, as I said, it's important not to damage that vibrant nighttime economy, but in doing so, we also need to find ways of maybe collaborative work with speed scenes, some of the businesses and make sure that when that time finishes, when people finish going home, then they don't unfortunately leave a mess behind for other people in residence to enjoy, if you like. So are we doing any work around that? And do you see a kind of framework or strategy shaping around that following this strategy consultation that I'm stating? Can you give us some of the examples how that could work out in practice? Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's a big question, isn't it? Because most local authorities across the country are faced with that question. But I agree that we do need a strategy for that and that will feature heavily in the first objective of this strategy. It's about making the borough more welcoming at night. So whether that be midnight, 4am, 6am, we want a borough that's nice to be in, nice for our residents, nice for our business owners. I think Shoreditch has its own set of unique challenges, as I laid out. It's very hard for us to diversify in Shoreditch because of the high operating costs there. So you do see, you'll see that in areas where you have a bit more local participation, like if you compare to Dalston, we actually see lesser issues. And I think that's due because the businesses there have a personal investment to the area. I think that's not the case with Shoreditch. So that's something we'll be looking at. And there's, I mean, there's a whole variety of factors that affect that aspect of the management of the nighttime economy that we will be incorporating into the strategy. Thank you, Sam. I think I'd like to follow up. Can I just add to what Sam said in terms of working. Thank you very much for the question. Thanks. I mentioned three things quickly. The first one is the late night levy. Part of what you mentioned is why happening to use the late night levy back in 2017 to have enough funds to support police being able to not just look at people that are committing offenses that you describe as well as making sure that people are safe on a public realm basis. And the other thing is ensuring that we have, again, being able to bring more enforcement officers during the nighttime economy. And one of the things that an enforcement officer does is around talking to people like, say, committing an ASB and making the police like they think that's why people get fined when they're committing public spaces. So, people not be seen by enforcement officers, they will get away with it. But that is part of why we introduced enforcement officer. In Sam's presentation, she mentioned the fund we got from G&A around the business-friendly regulation. Again, that is why we did that because the majority of the population from residents is about that balance from the shoddy area is noise and being disturbed. So, because of that, the nighttime economy is happening with the noise team, they're able to, when a complaint comes in around the license premises, they're able to alert Sam's team and Sam's team will go to them. This complaint has come in if they have the case of who made the complaint out and they gave it to that individual group in order to be compliant with regulation as well as making sure that people are able to be there, enjoy the nighttime economy and enjoy the homes as well. And also, a bit of work with the housing team, ASB housing team, where the complaints of our residents in housing around a shortage of people in meetings, people doing this, we are monitoring that as part of making sure that the nighttime economy is not evolving or new steps to our residents. And as Lani suggested, we developed the strategy more in that we can do within a constraint of licensing between two between that. Thank you. Can I just clarify on that point? Thank you for that. Thank you for the answers. By the way, just for clarification, I'm in no way advocating legal action against anti social behavior. I'm not suggesting that at all. Sometimes it's just a common sense. And I was really pleased when we introduced the nighttime levy because that was going to help clear some of that mess. I think it will be good to see that in action. And sometimes it's just common sense, really, and making sure that people are not disturbed too late and the streets are cleaned properly first thing early in the morning or maybe at nighttime. Otherwise, I'm not in any way advocating we should be harsh or taking legal action to those people who are enjoying maybe they have too much to drink. I'm not suggesting that at all. Thank you. So compared to Dawson, the clientele in Dawson is relatively local, whereas in Shoreditch, they come from all over London and obviously Liverpool Street is a hub which is walkable from Shoreditch. It's a completely different type of clientele who are not interested in looking after that neighborhood. They just come for a night out to go whereas people in Dawson come back weekend after weekend and they're relatively close to Dawson, we know that. But in addition, we have up to 10 enforcement officers out by the disaster in Shoreditch to deal with the issues that happen there on a regular basis. And there's also the town center police team which the night levy pays for, and that's inspected three sergeants and up to 24 PCs to deal with all the issues that occur around the nighttime economy. And the levy is actually paying for that, so that is where before the police would have had that resource, but now they do. So a lot more has happened. I don't think it would be perfect because the balance of what residents want with people enjoying themselves, the very, very fine balance, and I think we're doing what we can with resources we've got to police that nighttime economy. Sorry, sorry, come back on that. I appreciate the enforcement and the officers being present in nighttime levy paying for that. Again, that's good in terms of making sure that people feel safe, people who are there to enjoy themselves. But sometimes a good cleaning will resolve most of the complaints from residents, for example, when people go home, when they finish blabbing, rather than rubbish everywhere on the main streets and everywhere. Things like that, I was referring to when I talked to our common sense, before offices open in the morning, before people leave their flats to go to work, and then they don't walk into this, you know, bottles or broken bottles and things like that. But I do see kind of a change in the offices being present, although I'm usually there during the daytime. Yeah, but that's what I was referring to. There could be additional street cleansing services. When residents get up in the morning to leave their houses to go to work, I see lots of broken glasses, you know, all sorts of things people, some people urinating, some people becoming sick because they have too much to drink. And that's not nice, but I don't usually see kind of cleaning, street cleaning early in the mornings in that area. Yeah. And as I said, I'm dead every morning. So yeah, I mean, I think this is something we'll definitely be looking at through the working group with the waste teams and the street cleaning teams as part of the strategy, like these conversations and will be. Yeah, just as a time, I think we should move on to Council Sadek. Yeah. And then I'll just check in. You've got questions from Council Larcrasand. Did you want to offer anything, Council Pinkton? I don't know. Your question's been asked. Oh, unless, unless it's asked. OK, great. So Council Sadek. Thank you very much. So I've got two, two and a half, two related questions from the perspective of business. And I'm just looking at the agenda front page where it talks about the purpose of this item is to think about how we use our licensing powers to promote economic growth essentially and the nighttime economy that you've talked us through all the benefits of it to the local economy. So my questions are really about how businesses, how the council interacts with, listens to, responds to what businesses are experiencing and telling us about their work in the nighttime economy. So the first one is a little bit of a specific technical one, let's call it. I'm just wondering how the council takes the pulse of how businesses are getting on in the nighttime economy. How methodical the council's approach to listen into businesses is. Do you record, is it, notice the point around the consultation. I just wonder specifically with businesses, do you collect data in a quantitative way or is it more qualitative and engaging on an informal basis? Just so how accurate is that sort of taking the pulse of how businesses are getting on? And then in relation to the current experience of businesses, you've talked about the high number of chains, corporate chains and corporates in Shoreditch, an increasing number due to rent raises and presumably the impact on independence as a result of that. I assume although that's particularly accentuated in Shoreditch that has been replicated in other parts of the borough as well. And we know from your report that there are pressures on businesses in this part of the economy. So I'm just wondering what levers the council has through the licensing regime to ease the pressure on businesses at particular times of economic difficulty as they seem to be experiencing and how often, you know, does the council exercise those, that ability or those powers? So we have a date night levy board which meets every two months. So and representatives of each of the pub watch groups sitting at levy boards, you've got Shoreditch, Dolston, Acty Central, Stokelyington. So they represent businesses in those collective areas. So there comes the board and they raise issues with us. So, and we have had very frank discussions when they've raised issues about licensing, we've discussed all the issues they've raised and come to solutions with issues that have come up with. So we do listen to businesses and licensees. So the main, it's our main way to that is through the late night levy board. Obviously, as council of terms said, licensing is legislative. We have to follow set procedures. So if, for example, a resident applies for review of a premises license, we will look at that review. If the review doesn't cover any of the four license objectives, we don't have to accept that review. But if it does, then we will accept the review. And we have no choice in that. And the other thing we can hope that has been published is our claims of impact assessment for licensing has been reviewed. We've published it, it's out of consultations, but that consultation ends on the 20th of October. When we had previous special policy areas, so special policy areas, the whole purpose of that was that you didn't allow licensed premises in a particular area unless it meant the four licensing objectives. And the council's licensing self-committees have granted numerous applications within the previous SPA's in short, for premises to allow beyond normal closing house. So premises have been granted licenses up to 3 a.m. within those policy areas previously. And once the consultation is finished on the current CIA, we will then take that back to licensing commission for council for approval. So we take all that on board and we listen to licenses. And I think we've got quite a good relationship with the licenses. And obviously, we meet monthly as well. We meet with the police every month. We have a licensing enforcement group, where there are problem premises that are to come up and discussed. And as Samantha has referred to, we already have the weekly anti-tasking meeting, where we meet with the police and other partners. And again, premises that are causing problem are flagged at that. We also have the noise system, where if a complaint is made about noise for the business on a Saturday, Sam will have that picked up by Tuesday, and that business will have received an email saying, actually, a report was made about your issue. And then, what that business has the opportunity to say, actually, it wasn't us. We were close at the time that report was made. It wasn't us. But if it was, then it would get investigated. So I think our enforcement against businesses is very fair and transparent. And obviously, any form of enforcement in the policy is the last part of any action we take. We walk with business relays or business relays to our concerns. Obviously, we're obliged, as well, to listen to concerns of residents and take those into account as well. So we have to be very independent on how we deal with everyone on this. And ultimately, if an application for a review comes in, it goes to, like, the subcommittees. The members of the subcommission make that decision. And then anyone can appeal that decision. So that's the transparent process in place for all of that. Thank you. We're going to make a call to watch. And again, Sam, Joanna, Sumit, you have Hackney, Anwar, Sumit will be invited in the lab, maybe, at night. Do you want to say something? Yeah. So, I mean, we're really out there. I mean, Hackney Nights is all about outreach, you know. And I'm from the business of my previous past before this role was I was running a business in Hackney. So I'm a Hackney resident, as well. So we've got long-standing ties to Tora. But that's enabled us to make those connections, essentially, coming from the industry. And so, you know, what we do is we maintain a database of all duty managers of all premises that is up to date at all times. Because as soon as something switches over, something changes, we're there in person to update the information and have that, I think, having that active database is really, really important. And most of them probably will call me on it when they have issues, anyway. But, yeah, we're very close to our licensed premises. Like, it's, yeah, I don't even think, I think other areas in London are kind of adapting our engagement strategy to kind of achieve the same things we've achieved at the Hackney Nights portal, which is the hub that we use to kind of track all this. But, yeah, we do a lot of things at AB Leining, Women's Night Safety Charter. We're often asked to be a case study for other boroughs, so often doing presentations to other boroughs and sharing the engagement strategy we've had, which has been quite successful. The last thing to mention is with the public, when they have any issues, they want only regular basis, some attendance. But when they have any issue that they want the council to have to do, invite them, for instance, with dusting forward, the significant upwards during LTM, they wanted to have an interview there. When they have issues, expecting people coming to the area at night to disturb them and cause nuisance in most of those establishments, I was invited to the significant upwards as well. Yeah, there's one every week. There's one every week that our team attends. Just to build on that, I know, so you've obviously talked about the work with Amy Lamay and London, so you obviously seem leading/aligned with what is going on with the London overall plan. Is there anything else to add that you perhaps haven't said? Yeah, so we actually have a monthly meeting with the GLA and Amy Lamay's team. So I work very closely with some of the senior policy officers there, and obviously always kind of sharing best practice and they do quite a lot of work around night time strategy and best practice. So, you know, we're constantly sharing updates with other boroughs as well. And we were also chosen to be part of their masterclass programme with us. So I've attended those sessions prior to doing the strategy. So like, there's a lot of interaction with them. It's almost constant. And I think, yeah, it's been really, really positive, had really good impact. Thank you, Sir. Over to Councillor Martins. Yeah, no, that was that was already an interesting presentation. I think I've got a couple of questions on slightly different points. The first one was around the grassroots music venues that you highlighted. You know, Hank has got the most grassroots music venues of any borough. And, you know, he said in the presentation that it's a lot of those kind of community grassroots and cultural venues to sort of stick around, basically, you know, with rental rental prices, things like that. I'm just wondering if there's been any specific work being done to support those particular sort of venues. I think that the ones are really rich, the cultural, the culture of the economy now in the UK, not in London. Oh, I'm sorry. In the UK. Well, there you go. So yes, grassroots music is a big portion of this, what we offer. So we actually as part of the GLA regulation fund, we received the 20k for that project, we actually teamed up with Music Venue Trust who actually chose Hackney as their main as where they keep their head office actually, for the Hackney representative. They actually work out of Hackney. So it's been really helpful because we basically teamed up and we delivered tailored sessions for grassroots music venues, where they could come along, we could talk about various things, the challenges that they face, and kind of guide them along. So every time a grassroots music venue has a question or needs support, they basically come to me and so we ask with who's the rep for Music Venue Trust and Hackney, and we work very closely together to provide that level of support to them. We understand how important it is to kind of keep those venues in Hackney. So yes, very close to the Music Venue Trust on that one. Are any of those sorts of venues kind of registered assets of community value or anything like that and if venues came forward and asked for support in becoming assets of community value? Yeah, so the JGO is, that's the one I know of. Yeah, Village Underground, but we're also going to be looking at that as part of the strategy. Could we better utilise that or roll that out across, so we'll be looking at that as part of that support. Yeah, and then my other question was around, you mentioned that people have become more sensitive to noise, and also the issue of complaints from kind of new residents or residential developments impacting existing venues. I think there's been a few sort of high-profile cases that the Compton Arms Listington was aware, where a load of residents moved in during the pandemic and things like that, but I suppose that they kept their license in the end. I was just wondering how you can balance those sorts of tensions, you know, what rights a venue has that already exists to sort of good development. I think there was an article in the Hackney Gazette of the Citizen this week about a mouthplug being concerned that they might have to close if a new development is built. Let's see, if you put a load of flats and move into a flat next to a music venue, you move up to a music venue, so kind of how do you balance that sort of thing? If I could just very briefly, what was the bit about residents being more sensitive to noise post-pandemic? Is that just based on change in survey data since the pandemic or is it, yeah, just what was the evidence based on that point? It was just that people were, everyone was very, very quiet and then pubs were run off, beer gardens weren't open, there was no music in pubs all sorts of things, so people had near enough a year and a half of peace and quiet and then places reopened in July 2021 because then complaints shut up once that happened. So it's just you're basing that on a change in complaints? Yeah, the complaint levels basically, so unsubstantiated or just what we call like complaints around people talking or things like that which we've seen a big increase and we've seen the double case loads post-pandemic so it's quite a real situation. Is that not what I said out now because we're now talking three years, I mean a year and a half of things being quite abnormal but then we have had three years of… Well yes or no, I know there is a particular venue, I'm not going to name it, which has an LTN on the road outside us and that reopened after three years and we've got lots of reports of noise about that from residents, people were sitting outside on tables and chairs where before there was nothing, then all of a sudden that happened and it was legal, etcetera, there wasn't anything that could be done about it, it was what I would call normal activity in the business. Yeah, I think one of the key things is to get the venues involved in the process so especially when it comes to planning and things about, especially when it comes to new developments, etcetera, so we did develop a new system as part of the HECNIC project where they actually get planning alerts when there's new planning applications put in near the venue and actually Moth Club, I'm really glad you mentioned it because that was a success for us. You cannot mention that we've got the live application with the council, so I would advise that we don't discuss that any further, anyway, just to say that there are venues across the borough making representations on planning applications as we speak. Have you had your questions answered, Councillor Dankof? Yeah, I think so, yeah, it was just a point about like making those sort of pensions to ensure that, you know, it doesn't sort of go too far along way and decelerate is my general point. I'd like to ask a question about the kind of horizon scanning and how licensing policy over time, of course, takes this into consideration in terms of changing trends. I'm also interested, I did have a brief look at London Report and they talked about kind of the number of venues going down and they particularly highlighted the LGBTQI venues. I wondered if that's something you're seeing in Hackney. I mean, it's a trend, I think I've certainly seen that in terms of LGBTQI pre-pandemic to a certain extent in Hackney, but I just wondered whether you had any comments on that particular. And the other thing I was wondering, you've obviously got different, Shoreditch is obviously quite a separate case, you've got different night-time economies in different parts of borough. In terms of the balance between residents and businesses, are there any learnings from any particular one area that is actually really working well compared to other areas? I mean, maybe it can't be applied to Shoreditch because of the very specific circumstances of Shoreditch, but I just was wondering any comment. You obviously gave us lots of stats and I'm just thinking, oh, can I pull something out I can't think off the top of my head, but if anything's to be pulled out that could be helpful in thinking about any of the different areas in learning that clearly you would use going forward in terms of your strategy. Yeah, so in terms of LGBTQI+ venues, I think we're very much opposite to what's happening across London. We've seen an increase in kind of these spaces and the activities actually with a new couple of new venues actually opening up and they seem to just keep popping up actually, which is really kind of I think we've become sort of a centre for that, which is really, really good to see. In terms of any area that's successful, I think Dalston is by far our most successful night-time economy area. The lowest level of crime and incidents, the lowest level of noise complaints, yet we have licenses until 4am, so that is an area that we definitely can take learning from. And it's a sustainable model and I think because the local participation is high, diversification is high and you see a bit more of that investment in the local community there with the businesses really kind of invested fully and I think that is the model that we would want to follow. So how could that be transferred to some of the other areas which are more problematic? So yeah, it's all about, I think it's all about supporting new independent and diverse businesses but also we need to, you know, look at local participation because local participation in shortage is low compared to other areas. So I think that's one of the things that we'll be looking at as part of the strategy. Just to add to that, I think it is important that we, we admire fully about food for. I agree with all what Sam said, but we cannot compare the food for in those in the shortage. You were talking about food for 400,000 people and food for 100,000 people. So definitely because of the amount of people that visit or make shortage or a place that we need to manage, again, we've got in life, I don't want to talk about communities in fact assessment is part of what we are trying to do next, if there's anything new in terms of the regulation around [unintelligible] but if you have anything [unintelligible] community impact assessment is essentially an approach to how we just determine certain types of license application. So last year we commissioned some work to consultants who went out in four areas in Hackney, Shoreditch, Galston, Bowery, sorry, Shoreditch, Galston, Bromington, Hackney, not Stokely, Hackney Central, London Fields and Broadway Market, Hackney, what they they did essentially is assess what impacts there might have been of the life-long economy of those areas and the takeaway if you like from that was that Shoreditch to quite some extent was suffering from community impacts of the density of the license process in that area and Galston was to a lesser extent but there were some impacts in many other areas they didn't really reach a conclusion that there was. So that work was compiled into a report which they presented to the licensing committee and we now have an installation on community impact assessment if the decision is to publish a community impact assessment what that means is applicants for licenses in those areas have to demonstrate that they won't add to those negative impacts that that that came out of the research essentially so crime figures, ambulance call outs, noise, nuisance those sorts of things, those are the negative arms that they turn to to see as a result much more common activity and the community impact assessment is essentially trying to mitigate. Thank you very much David. I think we can draw this item to a close. We really appreciate you turning up and the work that's going on to really kind of find the right balance to support businesses in the night time economy and ensure we continue to have a thriving night time economy amidst all the challenges but also to respect the needs of residents as well. I didn't know whether Councillor Johnson's John Thompson, obviously we're really keen to invite you back perhaps when the night time strategy you're at the final stage or after you know publication but we can talk again about when the right time is to come. I don't know whether you had any final comments Councillor Gianna Thomas. Thanks very much again thanks for you to be here in mind the only comment that I would like to make in terms of many has been to me due to this strategy we do have outside of those officers that are made on a monthly basis from different services in order to have like an assembly of consultation back in November so it would be good if some will send that invitation to members that is about giving people the opportunity to contribute to the end stages of the strategy so that we would have had the days of going consultation back yeah we have that citizen assembly as the last steps before we put a draft together and again uh you need to be permissioned organizations to put all of that to say that overall okay well thank you very much that invite so yes we very much welcome that uh input of that kind of stage be it via scrutiny or be it attending um you know a meeting or working and great however you want to set it up well thank you very much um you are welcome to stay till the end of the meeting we're going to work program but you're also well done at this point thank you very much thank you jerry sam david okay thank you members um so the next item is the minutes of the previous meeting for the 18th of march 2024 everybody um so obviously excusing people who didn't attend that meeting which is only fair that was in july i think okay so i think it's only me that was present that meeting i read the minutes and you agree with them if that's sufficient if not we can perhaps buy email some further feedback prime got to get richard oh here he is okay welcome thank you for joining us council smith so now moving on to item seven um apologies we are running about 10 minutes late if i have the group that we continue them for 10 plus nine okay okay so this item is about the work the work program for skills economy and growth commission for 24 to 25. so the draft program is on pages if you turn to 87 and 94. okay um so please note this is a working document and is regularly updated for each meeting so in the last meeting the commission members may make some work program projections and we also reviewed the overview of the public engagement report so all of this is in the agenda pack um on page 71 8 before but please refer to this during our discussion so following a review of suggestions from the commission um cabinet members and the public consultation and the vice chair and i have met and we've discussed some of the following items so we'd like to schedule for november adult learning skills and employment particularly kind of bring bringing in outcomes um and um because of the time scale and you know we had to secure this an item for november we'd also we've talked to cabinet members of particular key that we and we're also keen to look at the growth and plans and we've already heard mentioned the meeting tonight about um the vice chair of london councils i think were shown the draft london growth and plan and obviously it's really important that hackney is aligned to what is going because we're only going really going to make a difference if you know we work on the collaborative basis and or line so we we suggest having an item on and growth and plans and we can also bring in the economic development plant as well which we've been receiving updates from and also look at the work of central london forward and the growth of London assembly and and and hopefully be able to invite some guessing from either either of those or organizations hackney light and power manifesto commitment um in terms of the way that that has been utilized but we particularly in this instance want to focus on the work that they've been able to achieve so far and we were hoping they would be able to join us last year they were able to so we very much want to scope out an item on hackney light and power so the libraries i don't know if those who were on commission two years ago we did look at the library strategy and after a year we were going to review it it was deferred so this is a promised um update it should be a relatively short item so we can have that as part of a larger piece um voluntary sector and um voluntary sector strategy um we have had a conversation with the cabinet lead and officers and they suggest that they could have a good time for scrutiny to input into this process is march 25 transport now if you look at feedback from um residents um the majority is around transport in various formats so we have to scope this out which we want your input on um you know there are people and still quite concerned about low traffic neighborhoods but there are also people wanting more active travel so we have to look about how we can meaningfully add to that um conversation and reflect residents views and also we thought it'd be really useful to revisit corporate properties and look at the work that they are doing to kind of um kind of get through net and net zero for 2030 so with that caveat do members have anything do members agree with that outline of suggestion so far there is scope for quite a few more items so very keen to hear what do you think of those items but also whether you've got any um ideas that you'd like us to follow i think we're really keen this year to kind of find a way of really engaging with businesses and the kind of focus group so it could be one of those scenarios because there's some really good work went on about three or four years ago tracy 2018 so it's quite a long time ago in that really substantial piece of work so it'd be really good to you know involve businesses in kind of scoping out some of this stuff any yeah i think i think over to you yeah i think council palace's idea of building a social value economy would be a good one yeah um that we're really building social value a social value economy yeah um that would be one that i'd be quite keen um and then obviously solar panels for corporate property services i suggested that would be good and then energy and sustainability across the council fleet another one i suggested um so obviously i would be going for those uh but i'll leave it there because that's three great thanks for those counts me i mean look at those and spoke those out and see how we incorporate those council now uh completely lost where i was but uh it might be one of the public suggestions but there's a point about you know the cast is working on a sort of small and independent businesses um so we're going to do something on that because i was in a bit with some of the ideas they raised about how short it is night and a conference small independent business has been so pushed out yeah and what the council is doing on those types of yes as they said in the present session about how many the high proportion of independent businesses in the night time economy so what's being done to sort of maintain that diversity i guess yeah part of it and a wider um yeah those those are really good suggestions we can consider anybody else got any ideas you could also email ideas counselor just with on gilbert's uh uh idea um looking at our levels of recycling you know we're you know because of the green is that within our scope it's more it's living it's more of an okay yeah okay nevermind but certainly it can come into kind of discussions on the circuit economy certainly kind of you know exactly so it depends on how it's kind of incorporated it's not really the secular economy i think is it you know what i mean it's more more how do we get more people yeah so that's definitely the big impact okay thanks council smith um yeah just thinking uh whilst council african was talking there about um any because i know it's kind of big regeneration projects that is under our remit i believe um could be doing and in terms of the economy yeah yeah um housing as such yeah so that's sort of large you know large-scale regeneration yeah sort of infrastructure yeah stuff um that would be quite useful with it yeah we could have a look from what angle and this is the shortage of that redevelopment it's commercially yeah important so when we left looked at this tracy did we looked at kind of consultations around like the hackney central plan and and that kind of we looked at it yeah that's kind of context yeah how we kind of build build on and that yeah you've got a lot of work going on in terms of central so so i think that would be quite a good one so any example further examples of that yeah kind of send those on yeah i mean what's happening in the north of the borough for example you know stanford hill action plan is going on as well isn't it yeah and then you've got the stuff further up further up with that big development that's happening further up the road reminds me i forgot to ask a question about the shortage action problem how about the line but never mind you know what i mean further up north about the top of the borough there's a big massive development happening up there isn't there would be down would be down and that there's you know obviously they've done phase different phases but i think they've got another phase to go yeah so we just have to be careful a little bit specifically in terms of the economy yeah yeah and planning we don't want to open so we don't anyway yes i think you get the drift anyway yeah okay um any other comments okay so we'll proceed to the November meeting um so we'll you know be looking at the adult learning sector and skills and obviously some of the kind of green skills conversation you can reflect on that and take that as part of the meeting once once that's been scoped out um and December possibly um perhaps we'll look at growth growth we'll kind of see when is well i think we need to talk to officers about how hackney are feeding into that draft plan and and when a good time for us but if it is imminent and current then maybe it's a good time for that to come to scrutiny sooner rather than um later yeah yeah do you just want to call it growth or you want to call it inclusive growth well i think think about how we frame it but i talk in terms of growth and plans a lot of growth growth and plan so okay if nobody's got anything else comment we really need some suggestions and we'll take those related work on those and turning over the page and that's the right way i think i could ask if there's any other business am i correct moving on to any other business tracy um i haven't been notified of any other business so uh thank you very much for attending um polly and tracy i'd like to declare the meeting closed
Summary
The Skills, Economy and Growth Scrutiny Commission received presentations about the progress of the Green Skills and Circular Economy Initiative and the Licensing and the Nighttime Economy. The Commission heard that the creation of a Green Skills Commission is likely to be at least two years away, and will be preceded by a process of delivering and refining Green Skills activities and raising public awareness. The Commission also discussed the state of Hackney's Night Time Economy, heard about plans for a new Evening and Night Time Strategy, and provided feedback about how the strategy should address resident concerns. Finally, the Commission discussed its Work Programme for 2024-2025.
Green Skills and Circular Economy Initiative
Councillor Carole Williams, Cabinet Member for Employment, Human Resources and Equalities, introduced this item and explained that green skills is more than just meeting climate targets, but is also about creating new, good quality jobs in emerging green industries.
Our goal in Hackney isn’t to be on the wrong side of history, it’s to make sure that we are at the forefront of creating new, good quality jobs that provide opportunities for our residents.
Councillor Williams explained that for many residents, the term green skills
is too abstract and does not resonate with their day-to-day lives, and so the council is working to reframe the discussion around concrete jobs in existing sectors like plumbing, construction, and electrical work.
Nicola Joyce, STEM Project Manager, then presented the Council's Green Skills and Circular Economy workplan for 2024-2025, which is based on the principle that green jobs are those jobs that facilitate meeting net zero and broader environmental goals
.1
Ms Joyce described the activities the Council has already undertaken to support green skills, including working with BuildEast to deliver accredited green skills courses for 50 residents. She also explained that the Council is already delivering a range of programmes to support the local green economy, including:
- The BuildEast Skills Centre Partnership, which will see the creation of London’s first fabric design hub with physical rigs for hands-on training in cladding and building envelope specialties. The Council hopes that the partnership will support 150 residents into green jobs.
- The Circular Economy Hub, which will see the council engage with SMEs in Fish Island and Hackney Wick to develop pathways into circular economy jobs for local residents.
- 135 new places on green skills courses, including courses in Recycle, Repair, and Reuse, Retrofit, Construction, Energy Efficiency and Sustainability, and Health and Safety in the Construction Environment.
- The Festival of Learning for a Greener Hackney, which engaged residents with innovative learning in libraries.
- Short work placements in green construction for young people from underrepresented communities.
- Green skills training for the Council's own employment advisors.
- An opportunity and skills gap analysis to identify emerging green economy opportunities in London and Hackney.
Ms Joyce went on to explain that the Council is pursuing a different approach to green skills than it has taken on other issues like diversity in tech, where a commission was created first, followed by research and recommendations. This is because of the low level of public awareness of what green skills are.
Right now I’m asking us not to set up an independent scrutiny for this commission because it doesn’t follow the typical model. But I do see us as we progress on this journey...let’s say then we need to go deep with our residents but we need to get traction first.
Ms Joyce estimated that it would take around two years to build a brand and tell a story around green skills, after which the council would be able to engage with residents and refine its strategy.
Commission members raised several questions about the green skills strategy, including:
- Whether the council has considered working with organisations like the London Chamber of Commerce and the North London Chamber of Commerce.
- Whether the council could create a more comprehensive list of green jobs.
- How the council defines 'Green Finance', and whether this definition was strict enough to prevent Greenwashing.
- Whether there was a narrative behind the strategy that explained which jobs would become redundant in the future and which new jobs people should retrain for.
- How the council was working with other local authorities on major green infrastructure projects.
- Whether the council had partnered with any local schools to deliver green skills education programmes.
In responding to the questions, officers and Councillor Williams emphasised the importance of focusing on tangible opportunities that will resonate with residents, rather than on abstract lists of jobs. They also explained that the work on green skills is an iterative process, and that the Council is constantly refining its approach based on data and feedback from residents and stakeholders.
Licensing and the Night Time Economy
Councillor Susan Fajana-Thomas, Cabinet Member for Community Safety and Regulatory Services, introduced this item. She explained that licensing is governed by legislation and is constrained by the four licensing objectives of preventing crime and disorder, protecting children from harm, ensuring public safety, and preventing public nuisance.
Samantha Mathys, Late Night Levy Manager, then presented a report on the state of the Night Time Economy in Hackney. She explained that Hackney has a thriving night time economy, but that it has faced a number of challenges in recent years, including the COVID-19 pandemic, the cost of living crisis, and rising business costs.
Businesses are having to adapt by varying their operation and license which can be a costly process and residents also are a lot more sensitive to noise post-pandemic.
Ms Mathys reported that despite the challenges, only one permanent music venue has closed since 2018. She attributed this to the Council’s work to support businesses, including the Hackney Nights programme, which provides free advice, guidance, and safety training to licensed premises, and a new business-friendly regulation project, which has helped to reduce the number of noise complaints.
Ms Mathys also described plans to develop a new Evening and Night Time Strategy, which will set out a strategic vision for Hackney’s night time economy and provide guidance for businesses, residents, and other stakeholders. She explained that the strategy is currently in the early stages of development, with a consultation process having closed on 20 October 2024.
Commission members raised several questions about the night time economy, including:
- How the Council was working with businesses and residents to ensure that the night time economy is both vibrant and sustainable.
- What levers the council had to support businesses during difficult economic times.
- Whether the Council was doing anything to support grassroots music venues, which are facing increasing pressure from rising rents.
- How the Council was balancing the needs of residents and businesses in relation to noise complaints.
- Whether there were any learnings that could be taken from areas of the borough where the nighttime economy was working well, such as Dalston.
In responding to the questions, officers explained the various mechanisms the Council has to regulate the night time economy, including:
- The late night levy board, which meets every two months and includes representatives of pub watch groups from across the borough.
- The licensing enforcement group, which meets monthly with the police to discuss problem premises.
- The weekly anti-tasking meeting, which includes the police and other partners.
- The noise alert system, which allows the Hackney Nights team to quickly respond to noise complaints.
Officers also explained that the Council’s new Community Impact Assessment, which is currently in consultation, will require applicants for new licenses in certain areas to demonstrate that they will not add to negative impacts on the community, such as noise, crime, and antisocial behaviour.
Work Programme 2024/25
The Chair, Councillor Clare Potter, introduced this item. The Commission discussed its Work Programme for 2024-2025, and the following items were agreed for the remaining meetings of the municipal year:
- November 2024: Adult Learning, Skills and Employment. This item will look at the delivery of job outcomes by employers and how skills and adult learning is embedded across council services.
- December 2024: TBC.
- January 2025: TBC.
- March 2025: TBC.
The Commission also agreed to schedule the following items for the next municipal year:
- Hackney Light and Power: This item will review Hackney Light and Power, looking at its successes, challenges, and future plans.
- Libraries Strategy: This item will review the implementation of the Council’s Libraries Strategy.
- Economic Development Plan: This item will look at the Council’s Economic Development Plan.
In addition, the Commission agreed to consider several other items for inclusion in the Work Programme, including:
- Solar Panels for Corporate Property Services.
- Energy and Sustainability across the Council Fleet.
- The Voluntary Sector Strategy.
- Regeneration Funding from the Mayor’s Civic Partnership Programme.
- The Role of the British Business Bank.
- Growth Plans for the Local Economy.
- Sub-Regional Working for Economic Growth.
- Building a Social Value Economy.
The Commission also discussed the public suggestions that had been received for the Work Programme. These included suggestions related to:
- Transport: Concerns about the impact of Low Traffic Neighbourhoods, speeding, air pollution, and the lack of cycle storage.
- Economy: Concerns about the lack of support for independent businesses and the prevalence of betting shops and fast-food outlets.
- Community Safety: Concerns about antisocial behaviour, crime, drug dealing, and the lack of police visibility.
- Housing: Concerns about the lack of affordable housing, the standard of repairs in council homes, and the impact of gentrification.
- Libraries: Concerns about the availability of library services.
- Planning: Concerns about delays in the planning process.
- Environment: Concerns about waste collection, recycling, and fly-tipping.
The Chair explained that the Commission will consider these suggestions and decide which items to include in the Work Programme.
-
This definition is taken from the Central London Forward
Building an Inclusive Economy in Central London
report. ↩
Attendees
Documents
- Agenda frontsheet Monday 30-Sep-2024 19.00 Skills Economy and Growth Scrutiny Commission agenda
- Public reports pack Monday 30-Sep-2024 19.00 Skills Economy and Growth Scrutiny Commission reports pack
- Item 5a -Good Evening Hackney
- Item 4- Coversheet-Green Skills Commission
- Item 4a - Green skills and Circular Economy Workplan_SEG 30th September
- Item 6 cover_sheet minutes other
- Item 5 - Coversheet-Licencing and Nighttime Economy
- Minutes 18032024 Skills Economy and Growth Scrutiny Commission other
- Item 7 - Coversheet Work Programme
- Item 7a - Work programme Suggestions List for SEG 24_25 other
- Item 7b - SEG Work Programme 24-25 other
- Item 7c- Final OS Engagement Report-2024