Planning Committee - Wednesday 9th October, 2024 7.00 pm
October 9, 2024 View on council website Watch video of meetingTranscript
Transcript
My name is Claire Farrier, I'm the chair of this committee and I'm a Councillor for East
Finchley Ward. Thank you all for attending the planning committee this evening. I will
ask the other members of the committee to introduce themselves, followed by the planning
officers, the legal officer and the governance officer. So, Councillor Callick, if you could
start.
Councillor Wyndle, Collindale South Ward.
Councillor Tim Roberts, Underhill Ward.
Councillor Richard Barnes, Barney Vale.
Councillor Joshua Conway, Hendon Ward.
Dino Oliveira, planning officer.
Heidi Oskar, planning manager.
Dave Prince, deputy planning manager.
Jimmy Walsh, legal advisor to the committee.
Georgina Wills, governance officer.
Thank you. We ask that you remain seated throughout the meeting unless you are called to the table
to address the committee. Please note that meetings may be recorded and broadcast as
allowed for in normal by the Council and by attending, either in person here or online,
you may be picked up on recordings. Council recordings are covered by our privacy notice
and that can be found on the website at www.barnet.gov.uk. So, the procedure is for each of the applications.
The planning officer will present the applications first of all, then each speaker will have
three minutes to address the committee and the governance officer will inform you when
there is one minute left. And we will then have the opportunity to ask questions of the
speakers and then of the officers and then to discuss and come to a decision. Following
the decisions, we will determine the application and I will announce the committee's decision.
We'll ask you when you come to the table to turn the microphone on and we'll explain how
to do that or show you when you come. There's a slight variation in the agenda. I think
that many of you are here for one particular item, the church hall. As I understand it,
there's quite a lot of interest in that item. So, we have moved that up to the agenda. That
will be the first full application that will be considered. No, it is to be the first.
We brought it up once. So, after the hearing of the minutes and other minor things, the
first item to be heard will be Marwood Court and then St. Mary's Church Hall and then Millway
on the order that is on here. Does that make sense? I hope everybody is here for those.
The first full item on the agenda is the minutes of the last meeting, which I hope everybody
has seen. We have three minutes. Councilor Greenspan, do you want to say? Oh, you're
proving it. Okay, I'll just sign the minutes. Abstinence of members, I think all the committee
are here today. There is no abstinence of members. Do any members have any declaration
of interests? No. The monetary officer has not granted any dispensations. I think the
addendum was just the minutes of the last meeting, was it? So, there is no addendum
about particular applications this evening. So, then we move straight on to the first
item, which is Marwood Court. Yes, thank you, chair. Marwood Court description
as per the report and as per the slide there. This application was reported to this committee
at its last meeting on the 26th of September and whilst committee resolved to agree the
recommendation, the decision has not been issued. In the meantime following the meeting,
it was found that the officer report contained inaccurate dimensions in respect of the height
of the building. This was due to an officer error in scaling the plans and I apologise
for that error and it happened to come back. It was not an error in the plans themselves,
I bear fine. It was considered appropriate to refer the application back to committee
to ensure that members take a decision based on the corrected dimensions. The original
report referred to an overall increase in height of 1.2 metres, when in fact it should
have referred to an increase of 2.3 metres and that has dealt with in the preamble to
the report. I will just run through the plans quickly if I may. That's a bit too quick.
There we have the application site at the end of Grecian Road. We have Wentworth Avenue
along there and to the south west it's Wentworth Park. It's an existing block of three storey
flats with flat roof as we'll see in a minute. We've got the area of the building there.
Street views, a better one showing the existing building subject site. Commercial building
next door, that's the back of the name of the property in Wentworth Avenue. Close look
of the boundary, residential properties to the rear there, some distance away which we'll
come to in a minute. Coming across the site looking down Grecian Road. Existing floor
plans, each floor contains two flats, so a total of six flats in the building at the
moment. There we've got the existing elevations from the side, simple building, flat roof
and there we can see a slight flooring level across the site. Existing and proposed site
plans, existing at the top, proposed, we can see the alterations there, provided a couple
of parking spaces in that location, bin stores at the front, bike stores there and that just
shows the new roof going on to accommodate the proposed two flats. Proposed elevations,
so as members will remember, flat roof at the moment, so putting a pitched roof on there
to accommodate two one bed flats. As we can see from the elevations, the roof pitches
away on all sides into the site itself, so it's pitching away from the site boundaries
which reduces the impact quite considerably on the neighbouring property in our opinion.
The remaining elevations from the side, as we can see from the other drawings, there's
dormer windows on all four sides. Floor plans, two one beds, there we've got the long section
through, so that's effectively what's there at the moment. Just a little behind that floor
level proposal, significant distance away, let's see if I can remember, I've got the
distances somewhere, yeah, just go back to the site plan again. So yeah, in regards to
the relationship to Wentworth Park, it's 32 metres to the boundary, 33 metres to the rear
elevation of the housing in Wentworth Avenue, which is to the north west, which is almost
33 metres away, 32 on that side, and from the front of the site to a property opposite,
that's a distance of 23 metres. So whilst the new roof would be clearly visible from
the neighbouring properties, there's no dispute in that. In our opinion, it wouldn't be overbearing
or visually obtrusive to such a degree, given those distances involved, over 30 metres to
neighbouring properties, and 23 to a property opposite. Of little, I've tried to report
that the proposed units are standard, parking's acceptable, bin store provision, and cycle
provision acceptable. In our opinion, it won't affect the character appearance of the building.
I say, given the distances involved in marketing, there is no adverse impact on my mates and
neighbours, and approval is recommended. Thank you.
Thank you. Before we go to the speakers, I'll just say that we did take a vote on this at
the last meeting, and approved this application at the last meeting. We're considering it
tonight as a new application, and we have taken into consideration all the information
that we have, the Office's report, the new information, and emails, and other information
that some of the objectors have provided. So please be assured that we are considering
this fully as a new application, with all the information that we have. So speakers
that we have are Mark Lester and Helen Simons. I don't know which order you would like to
come forward. Yeah, so one at a time. Thank you, Mark. If you could turn the microphone
on if you remember how to do that, it's a sort of face symbol. It's all right, we'll
come and show you. It's easier if we show you. Oh, okay. Okay, thank you. As I said,
you have three minutes to speak, and you'll be given a warning when you have one minute
left. Okay. Well, I'm speaking on behalf of myself and Kenji and Neil. Could you both
just stand up? I'm speaking on behalf of the three of us. We all object equally strongly
to this. Danny will go into the technicalities better than I can, because he's a surveyor,
but my main objection is the degree to which the building is overbearing. Mr Nyman said
it's not excessively overbearing, and that was one of the reasons he was recommending
approval. But he can't know that because he hasn't been in our gardens and he hasn't seen
the degree to which we're overlooked already. Well, we won't be overlooked in fairness because
of the frosted windows, but the building is overbearing. It will look horrible for us.
It will affect our sunlight, it will affect our perspective, it will affect our enjoyment
of the building, of our own properties, that is. I've reprinted off a couple of pictures
of my garden, which I'd like to allow you to have a view of, which I'll give you in
a second. And the other thing is that in one of the images that was posted up there, frankly,
showing a tree that was far taller than the existing building, which doesn't exist, again
misleading. You'll see the degree to which we're overlooked from these images. I could
have printed off images from Neil's garden or Kenji's garden, would have looked pretty
much the same. And as for it being in line with the suburban character of the street,
again, I feel that you haven't been given a fully comprehensive impression of the road,
because this is how it will look. This is the look immediately opposite the Edwardian
houses. They're very pretty, and having what is practically a skyscraper on the opposite
side is out of keeping with the suburban environment that it's in.
One minute remaining.
That's about all I wanted to say, actually, so I'm done in two minutes. My objection
is the overbearing degree, and I do want to say that, you know, if any of you lived in
my house, you wouldn't want an extra floor on that building. Nobody would. Councillor
Richard came to my house, said he wouldn't like it. My gardeners said he wouldn't like
it. Then everyone who's visited my house said they wouldn't like it. The same for Kenji
and Neil.
OK, thank you. Could we just point out exactly where your house and your neighbour's house
is?
Oh, you can't see on the plan.
You can see on the plan which houses you're talking about.
Oh, I'd have to come up, if I'm allowed.
Can you point out the numbers?
Do you want to go round?
Carefully, wonder-wise.
So my house is that one, and Neil's house is that one, and Kenji's house is that one.
OK, thank you. Take a seat then, we'll see if there's any other questions from members
of the committee.
How long has Marm Court been established there?
It was there when I moved in, so I know it's plus 20 years.
So it's been there for 40 years?
The existing three storeys of Marm Court have been there since the 1960s.
Sorry, the question is to the person at the table at the moment, rather than somebody
else to answer.
It's only Mr Lester who can answer your question.
Well, I was about to say anyway, I think it's a '60s or '70s building.
It's been tolerated for that long.
Well, I mean, I couldn't have it pulled down.
So if you said tolerated, if I heard you correctly.
Well, by the local residents, assuming the original building.
Well, I mean, we're not going to have a riot when it was erected.
Oh, OK.
Can the speaker just answer the questions, please, and not to anyone else?
Yeah, so when you're actually there, then we can actually address the committee.
Thank you.
OK.
Oh, so basically, that question will be answered by Mr Kaye in a moment.
Any further questions?
Thank you very much, Mark.
Thank you.
Next speaker.
Sorry, I didn't get your name, so if you could introduce yourself.
Mr Kaye, Daniel Kaye.
Daniel Kaye, yeah.
OK.
OK, Mr Kaye.
And I'm speaking on behalf of Mark and the two other residents, the neighbours in Wentworth
Avenue.
That's fine.
Thank you.
And again, you'll have three minutes to speak.
Thank you.
And you'll get the warning when you have a minute left.
Well, thank you very much.
Good evening, members.
Thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak on behalf of Mr Lester and the neighbours.
I did speak a couple of weeks ago.
I am in the business.
I'm at Charles's Way.
I'm a member of the Town and Country Planning Association.
I've worked on over 300 development projects.
Normally, I find myself supporting new development.
On this rare occasion, I find myself supporting an objection.
I think there's good grounds for this.
I think Barnet has an excellent track record of new homes delivery, and that does continue,
but I think this one is a mistake.
Why do I say this?
Because I make specific reference to some of your own policies, and I quote from your
supplementary planning document, Residential Design Guidance, October 2016, which states,
Proposals for new residential development should respond to the distinctive local building
forms and patterns of development and respect the scale, massing and height of the surrounding
physical context.
Furthermore, paragraph seven of Safeguarding Residential Amenity of the SPD also makes reference
to where overlooking or over or implicitly overbearing is a problem, especially in relation
to neighboring development, a higher degree of privacy will normally be required.
Now, I make reference to these specific two points, not because the existing three stories
hasn't been there since the 1960s, it clearly has, but an additional story will exacerbate
the problem and be contrary to your own policies.
What I think is disappointing in this instance is that there's no analysis to this effect
in the Planning Committee report.
Indeed, as Mr. Lester pointed out, the planning officer has not visited the site, did not
visit Mr. Lester's property, going to the garden, and therefore, at the very, very least,
I think it's incumbent upon the committee to either refuse the application or defer
to a site visit by planning experts, by the planning committee.
Sorry, planning officers, I should say, you've been to a site visit, but I don't think you've
been to Mr. Lester's property.
So, I would just reiterate, I think this is really important because objectively, in my
opinion, there hasn't been sufficient reference to your own policies, and I think this is
an omission in the Planning Committee report, and I say this having worked on hundreds of
planning projects and development projects, so I should be grateful if you can consider
this very, very carefully, and thank you for listening, and I'm happy to answer any questions.
Thank you.
Councillor Carrick.
Thank you.
You mentioned in your presentation that part of the 2016 guideline was that it was to safeguard
people's privacy.
Does this actual extended bit have any windows overlooking the properties?
It's not so much the windows, it's the scale and overbearing nature which impacts upon
the sense of privacy, and there's much case law on this that isn't just about windows,
it's the appearance of and the impression of and the experience that people will enjoy
or not enjoy as the case may be by the additional story, which is 2.3 metres as opposed to 1.2
as previously specified.
The other point I would make, which I think is relevant, is that it is my understanding
that there is no lift provided in the existing block.
There is no proposed lift to be provided in the existing block.
These two properties, these two one-bed homes on the top floor, fourth floor, would normally,
if this was a new build scheme, be non-compliant with building regulations, so if you give
planning approval, you're on the cusp of compliance with Part M of building regulation because
there is no lift being provided.
So I think this is an important point.
I know it's a moot point, there are sometimes interpretations about what is compliance with
Part M, but I think it's important this would certainly not satisfy what used to be referred
to as lifetime homes.
Thank you, any other questions?
I think that's it.
Thank you very much.
Thank you very much.
We now go back to the offices – sorry, I'm missing out on the agents again on behalf
of the applicant, Joe Henry.
Thank you, and again, just make sure you know the procedure, we have three minutes to speak.
Thank you, Chair and members.
My name is Joe Henry, I'm the agent acting for the application.
As you know, members, the proposal was approved by this committee on 26 September, however,
because the officer reports contained inaccurate figures on the height of the existing proposed
proposal being presented again to the committee.
I am grateful officers have confirmed the applicant's drawings are accurate, but were
just interpreted incorrectly by officers.
The application has been referred to this committee by Councillor Rich, because he was
concerned about the possible overlooking of Gardens and Wentworth Avenue.
That was the sole reason why he asked for this to go to committee.
I did email Councillor Rich and explain the windows facing the rear windows of properties
in Wentworth Avenue are proposed to be obscure glazed to ensure no overlooking.
He kindly responded and said he did discuss the matter of local residents, but they remain
of the view that an extra floor at Marwood Court impinges on their gardens.
As stated in your officer report, the two post windows facing the rear gardens of Wentworth
Avenue will be obscure glazed, meaning there will be no overlooking.
I would also draw your attention to the suggested planning condition number 10, which requires
these windows to be obscure glass only and shall be permanently retained as such thereafter.
In respect of the impact the proposal has on the character and appearance of the building
and locality, I would comment as follows.
The application site forms part of a street which has a very mixed character of residential
and commercial properties with varying designs, massing and heights.
The proposal proposed a mansard roof extension with a pitch roof and on an existing flat
roof.
The existing flat roof block style building has limited architectural merit.
Almost every other building with the road and indeed beyond in Wentworth Avenue has
a pitch roof.
The introduction of a pitch roof would significantly improve the design form of the existing building
overall, contributing positively to the character and appearance of the building and locality.
It is also important to note the proposal seeks to provide two additional dwellings
which will contribute to addressing the housing crisis, something on which the new Government
has prioritised as the top priority.
Thank you for listening, I'll be happy to answer any questions you may have, including
the building regulation matter that was raised by the speaking objector.
Thank you.
I mean if you'd like to comment on the building regulation, we're asking the officers as well,
but have you got any comments on that?
About the building regulation comment, it's not a building control requirement to provide
a lift unless there's a planning condition requiring one to be provided.
It's referred to as part 4(m)(2) of the building regulations, which is a discretionary part
of the building regulations which is only a requirement to be imposed if there is a
planning condition.
A planning condition can only be imposed if there is actually a prospect that a lift can
be provided and obviously it's impossible to provide a lift because you have to go through
other people's flats.
So in that case, that's why there's no need for a lift or none is required by either building
regs or planning.
Any other questions?
Councillor Roberts.
I just wanted to be clear about this issue about overlooking.
You're quite clear that there is no perspective of overlooking from this extension to this
building to the properties and Wentworth?
I mean if the officers could put up the relevant elevation facing the rear gardens of Wentworth
Avenue, it would be clear that the two additional windows, I think it's two, they're going to
be obscure glazed and fixed up and permanently retained as such.
Sorry?
It's on the pitch roof, yes.
The extra floor is at the pitch roof.
No, there will be no overlooking and I could hear from the last speaking object that they've
changed their tack somewhat because they realise there is no overlooking because I think they
accept that there will be no overlooking.
Thank you.
Any further questions?
No, thank you very much.
Thank you.
Yes, perhaps if we could have some further comments from the officers.
We heard that the additional story will be contrary to the council policies.
Mr Henry has already commented on the requirement for a lift, but I wonder if you could speak
about that.
With regard to the building regs, I've got nothing else to add to what Mr Henry said.
That's perfectly right and proper, there is that provision there, but it is discretionary.
If it's unreasonable and prejudice to the development, then it's not something which
we would pursue, particularly in new developments, but in this one where it's an extension to
an existing building, to try and put a loft in there would just render the development
unviable and reasonable and would just not be possible.
So if there is that relaxation, that discretion in the system which allows that, and that's
I think in London Plan as well.
Mr Kay also said that the additional story is contrary to council policies.
Well, council policies, is it appropriate in the character of the area, and as we've
got nothing to add really to the character of the area, as we can see it's not very clear
actually on the photos at that scale, but as we can see across there, we've got commercial
buildings, pitched roof, you could almost argue that the existing building is different
to the remaining character in that it's a three storey flat roof building, the majority
of buildings in this particular area have some form of pitched roof on it, so it's not
unreasonable to argue that it's actually improving it.
Is it improving it at the cost of the amenity of a neighboring residence?
In my opinion, no, because it's too far away, and if you like the damage is already done
by the vertical plane of the building at three storeys, the roof pitches in like that, so
whilst it is higher, it's going away from the sensitive edges of the building, so the
height is further away from the neighboring residence.
Will they see it?
Yes, of course, everybody's going to see it, it's going to be visible in the street scene,
I think as can be seen from photos that were circulated by other members of power, it's
clearly visible from the rear gardens and neighboring properties, but the fact it may
be visible doesn't mean it's harmful.
It's too far away, it's not overbearing, it's not obtrusive, you'll see it, but in my opinion
it's not going to cause harm, such as to want refusal and the potential loss of additional
two units to the housing stock.
Thank you, we'll consider that.
Finally, can you just confirm again that the drawings, what we were considering last time
by looking at the drawings and when we mentioned the site visit was accurate, it's just, it
was written down, what was written down as the measurements was...
Yeah, I can only apologise for whatever reason, got the scaling wrong, the drawings remain
the same, you know, we've got no issue with the accuracy of the drawings, it was probably
looking at, I don't know if it's 1-200, 1-200, but whatever, looking at the wrong one from
the sort of distance that it's out, it's almost double, so it's, the plans and relationships
are accurate, our members were seeing it, certainly have we seen it, it's fine, it's
fine, it was just a simple error which happens from time to time and fortunately we were
able to pick it up.
Thank you, any further questions or comments to make?
If not, we'll go straight to the vote.
The office's recommendation is for approval, all those in favour of approval?
That's all, so this application is approved, thank you.
And we will move on now to Church Hall St Mary in Barnet.
So this application relates to Church Hall of the Virgin Church of England Church in
Camlent Way, the proposal involves demolition and rebuild of the existing two-storey Church
Hall.
Just to clarify, this application has been called into committee by Councillor Weiser
on heritage grounds, so this is the site location plan and this is the Church Hall.
The site is within the green belt and also falls within Monck and Hadley Conservation
Area, it's in an area of archaeological significance and also covered by Article 4 direction.
The common opposite is site of importance for nature conservation, so the Church Hall
is locally listed and is set within the grounds of Grade 2 star listed parish church and it
forms part and parcel of the Grade 2 star listed church curtilage.
There is no boundary as such between the two sites.
So the extensions, previous extensions have been granted but applicants state that the
building for foundations are not sound enough for the restoration of the original building
and therefore cannot implement the extensions granted last year.
So the building footprint, I don't know if you can see this but the red line denotes
the existing building line, so the building footprint is approximately 21.6 metres in
width, 7.2 metres in depth and 4.7 metres to eaves height and 7.7 metres ridge height.
The replacement building would be one metre wider which is at this point here and it will
be set in one metre in from this church boundary.
So just to note that the existing ridge height and the east side will remain as per the existing.
The replacement also proposes single storey element to the south side which is on this
side here and a two-storey element to the north side.
So as I said the rear building, sorry, the actual relocation of the new building would
be cited one metre from where the actual existing building is at the present time, so it would
be a metre in from this boundary here.
So the increase in volume represents 26.6 cubic metres over the existing volume.
Heritage officers have objected on the grounds that there will be substantial harm to a non-designated
heritage asset and significant harm to the setting of a grade two star listed building
and harm to the character and appearance of the monk and had the conservation area.
Heritage officers also comments that church house makes a good contribution to the setting
of the curtainage of the listed church building.
Also the proposal adds significant number of windows in the west elevation along through
here.
So these are the existing site photos, that's the internal and this is the rear elevation.
Again more photographs of the site, again more photos of the site.
So this is the existing plans as you will see at ground floor level there's only very
small windows facing the churchyard and at first floor there's only one window at first
floor level.
These are the existing elevations, you can see the windows are fairly small and there
wouldn't be any overlooking of the churchyard, basically they're very small windows.
So in the proposed elevations and sections number of windows have been added to the rear
elevation which faces onto the church building and that faces onto the churchyard.
So the heritage officers have said that because of the proposal adds significant number of
windows in the west elevation facing towards the churchyard and the church building that
this would have an impact on the setting of the church, the grade two star-listed church
buildings.
As you've seen from the existing there are limited windows in that elevation meaning
that large degree of privacy was afforded to the burial ground and to those mourning
their deceased.
The additional windows which is five at ground level and six at first floor level would intrude
on those people that respects to their deceased with the proposed open boundary rails that
would allow views directly through to the churchyard and that is the significant harm
that the heritage officers have identified with regards to this application.
Whilst the officers are all in support of the ultimate objective of the church and the
restoration of the church hall and facilities fit for the community's needs, however justification
has not been made to demonstrate that the existing building could not be stabilised
and repaired enabling it to be extended and refitted for modern use.
In the absence of an appraisal assessing the feasibility of the cost of the remedial work
as opposed to rebuild, the case for demolition has not been made by the applicants.
So the application has been recommended for refusal on two grounds.
The first one is demolition of the existing and its replacement would result in substantial
harm to non-designated heritage asset which is a locally listed church hall building and
a high level of harm to the setting of a grade two star listed building failing to preserve
and or enhance the character and appearance of the Monk and Huddie conservation area contrary
to policies.
Second reason is on the grounds that the replacement building would by reason of its size, bulk,
lighting and massing appear material larger than the existing building and the proposal
would represent an inappropriate development within the green belt so no case for very
special circumstances has been demonstrated to outweigh the harm.
I have nothing further to add, we do have speakers.
Thank you, Councillor Emma Whistle.
Thank you Emma, I think you know the procedure, you have three minutes to speak if you've
given a warning when you have one minute left.
Thank you Chair.
I'm not going to keep the committee long with my remarks, mainly the two things I'd like
to focus on are the loss of a heritage building.
The reality is that the community and the area has pretty much lost this building now.
The cost of rebuilding and restoration rather than knocking it down and rebuilding a building
from scratch is so astronomically higher than what has already been raised over a number
of years by the community that it will not happen and it means that the building will
continue to deteriorate in space, attract antisocial behaviour probably and will be
lost to the community in any event.
This is the best opportunity that we have to replace this building in an in-kind manner
that will fit with the local area and will be of benefit to the community.
So when we talk about losing a heritage building, this building has already been lost due to
the condition that it currently is in and in terms of the harm to the area, the current
building I believe has a modern lean-to on it, which will obviously come down with the
building and mean that the building can be replaced in a more in-kind manner.
I'm unsure how harm is caused by being able to look from the church hall onto the Grade
II listed church and enjoy that outlook.
In fact I think it enhances the area and enhances the ability to enjoy the beauty of this church,
which is part of the community and a historic part of this community.
The building will be the new building, a community asset which has much local support as you've
seen from the papers, 32 letters of support for the building and many people here tonight
have come in support of it.
As a local councillor I'm fully in support of this project to rebuild the building.
I've had no one contact me as a local councillor, requesting that I oppose this application
and all communication that I have received has been in favour of this application.
Thank you.
Questions, Councillor Callick?
Can you give us an indication of the differential between restoration and a complete new rebuild?
I know it's impossible to give an exact figure but some sort of estimation.
I believe that the next speaker can address that.
I understand it is significantly higher.
The community has raised about 700,000 including still money which will just about cover maybe
a bit more if needed.
I'm looking at the fundraising chair to cover the rebuild and I understand that the cost
of restoration is approaching double that but I'll allow the next speaker to address
that in more detail.
Yes, I think you managed to get quite a sizeable funding from the area committee towards refurbishing
if you like, towards putting the new extensions on which planning permission was given for.
So as that was quite recent, I'm wondering why now it's come to demolition.
To be clear, the application for still funding was on the basis of this current planning
application.
The application for still funding was heard I think the day after the public consultation
on this planning application closed.
So it was on the premise of demolition.
Other questions?
We don't think that's where we're at.
Just want to be quiet.
If a new building is constructed on that site, would the range of activities that take place
must be able to be extended to the benefit of the local community?
I understand it would be.
I think also that obviously the building part of the increase in space is a health and safety
consideration allowing for disabled access which this building would not have allowed
for in its original design and allow more spaces so more groups can use the building
at the same time with a mezzanine level and other such improvements that will allow more
people to use the building and expand its use by the community.
Any further questions?
Thank you very much, Emma.
And then we have Alan Cox who is the App and Contendo agent.
If you can switch the microphone on.
That's it.
Now you have three minutes.
Is that okay?
Yes.
You have three minutes to speak.
They give a warning when you have one minute left.
Yes.
Good evening, chair and members.
My name is Alan Cox and I'm the agent action on behalf of the church.
Obviously thank you for allowing me to address you this evening on what has become an important
issue for the church and wider community over the last six years.
Despite the case officer's report before you stating that we did not engage in pre-app
advice, we did receive a pre-app report on the 14th of September 2018 when this whole
journey began.
The case officer's report also states that insufficient evidence has been submitted to
justify that the building is beyond economic repair.
Structural engineers have been monitoring the building since 2007 and commissioned five
metre deep boreholes to be taken to establish the reason for the continual movement of the
building.
This established that the building was constructed on made up ground down to a depth of 1.5 metres
along the main front wall which was causing the building to break its back.
The borehole report was submitted with the application as part of the structural engineers
report.
I would therefore like to briefly address the planning issues and the two recommendations
or two recommended reasons for refusal.
Firstly, materially larger.
The increase in volume is 26.6% against the guidelines in the SPD of 25%.
This policy is a guideline only and we recently received an appeal decision within the Hadley
area where an increase of 27% was accepted and the appeal upheld.
In her decision, the inspector stated the following.
It is clear that the SPD does not intend the 25% guidelines to be implied in a rigid way
and in my view, the additional 2% increase would in principle lie within a reasonable
range of tolerance.
The 1.6% increase is primarily to cover current disability space standard requirements for
new communal buildings including part M of the building regulations to allow access for
all.
The existing building cannot be adapted to meet these requirements.
Secondly, the loss of a locally listed building.
A highly qualified heritage consultant was appointed to advise the church on the proposals.
The church also consulted English heritage which visited the building.
Both came to the same conclusions which were and I quote, the locally listed church house
is considered to possess low architectural and artistic interest and low historic interest.
The heritage values of the building has been severely compromised by substantial and invasive
alterations made throughout its lifetime which have removed all evidence of any 18th and
19th century uses as a stable or residential dwelling.
Any perceived harm from the loss of the building is considered to be outweighed by the substantial
public benefits offered by the scheme, principally in a re-establishment of a high quality, contextually
designed and fully accessible community facility.
I've got one more paragraph.
English heritage also concluded the building lacks sufficient historic fabric to meet special
interest and it has lost all trace of its original plan form and interior with crude
interventions into the fabric and the case for listing has not been fulfilled.
Thank you, chair and members.
Thank you.
Any questions?
Councillor Roberts.
Thank you, chair.
I just want to check if the current situation with this building is downgrading itself,
I guess, by the look of it.
There are local activities that would make use of that building if there was an appropriate
building there that at the present time have nowhere else to go, is that the case?
Yes, Councillor Roberts, that's actually correct.
Obviously, the building's been closed due to the dangerous structure of the building
which you probably noticed during your site visit.
It's been closed since June 23 so none of the users of that building have been able
to operate anywhere else.
Cricket's been played on the common for 200 years.
The cricketers have got no place to change or the put-in-ex old people society can't
meet there.
Guides, brownies, can't meet there.
There are so many communities that cannot use the building and it's a shame it's going
to be lost to the community if something's not done.
Councillor Barnes.
Good evening.
Could you tell us a little bit more about how much you've looked into the possibility
of restoring the existing building, the cost of that, particularly with the approved extensions
that had been given as well?
Yes, of course.
When we received the previous permission, which is for our renovations and extensions,
the church instructed us to carry out a full structural design, a full working drawings
and a full specification of works and with those drawings and specifications we went
out to tender.
We was expecting budgets to come in around the 700, 750 but they were coming in over
a million and even then the contractors said that they couldn't guarantee that the work
they were carrying out, it wouldn't go up.
There was such a large contingency because trying to support the existing structure while
building a new structure in it, they couldn't guarantee that even that with the subsoil
that it's on and all the main ground wouldn't continue to move.
Hence, we took the quite drastic decision to actually apply for a rebuild despite the
fact that we knew that the planning authority wouldn't support it.
Thank you.
Any further questions?
Another one, if I may, the existing building is quite an attractive building even if it
is falling down.
Will you be able to reuse any of the material in the existing building for a new building?
Yes.
I don't know if you've got the CGI image that we submitted with it.
I didn't see that come up when he was making the presentation.
There was a full photorealistic CGI submitted with it.
No, it's not there.
Sorry, but anyway, irrespective of that, yes, on the CGI drawing, we intend to recycle as
much of the brickwork and tiles.
So we don't intend to put them in a skip, they'll all be stacked, set aside, damaged
ones replaced.
But if you look at the existing photographs, the existing elevations have been, there's
a whole mismatch of different brick types where it's been infilled, where it's cracked
and they've pointed it back in.
All the windows, sash windows are out of skew, the arches have gone.
So there's a limited amount that we can actually recycle, but we will do our best to take whatever
we can.
There's also a condition to say that any new material should be submitted and approved
by the local authority prior to commencement.
So we'll get as near as much as possible to what's there at the moment.
Any further questions?
Thank you very much.
Thank you very much.
Any questions to the officers or comments?
Councillor Barnes.
In sort of layman terms, could you explain what sort of extra evidence you would have
been looking for for the demolition being a requirement?
I think the applicants have said that the restoration of the existing building will
cost more than if it was demolished and rebuilt.
However, not sufficient evidence has been provided as to why the existing building cannot
be restored.
That's the kind of evidence that we would require so that we can then assess the feasibility
of whether extensions can be accommodated on the existing building or whether any part
of that existing building can actually be restored to maintain some elements of it.
But that hasn't been provided.
As I said earlier on, officers do support and appreciate the fact that the building
has deteriorated.
However, we just need that evidence so that we can properly assess what can be done and
what cannot be done.
And if that's been provided and it's evidence that the building cannot be restored for X,
Y and Z reasons, then obviously that will be taken into account by the officers.
Any further comments, questions?
No, then we'll go to a vote.
The officers are recommending refusal of this application.
All those in favour of refusal?
One.
And all those against refusal?
That's for the application.
Four or five?
So do we need to propose?
This has happened before.
If there's a recommendation to approve this application, first you should give reasons
just like you give reasons for refusal and you'd need to look at the reasons in the report
regarding refusal in that case.
But also, you can't make a final decision tonight.
It needs to be deferred.
But I think a discussion as regards those regions should be had and like you're minded
to approve.
I'm assuming that's going to be the case, yeah, unless there's another proposal, not
suggesting one.
And the final decision will be made at the next planning committee.
That's part of the constitution.
We cannot make a final decision tonight.
But you'd need to consider the reasons, planning reasons, that you're potentially going to
approve this application.
I think the benefits to the community outweigh the possible minor harm to – I think something
like that – the benefits to the community outweigh the minor harm this may cause.
Anything else?
It fits in with the local area.
It fits in – the character of the building fits in with the local area.
So sustainability of the building as well, yeah.
So can we have some of that in planning speak?
Yeah, so just to be – I think the main point is that the benefits outweigh, yeah.
And so the officers – there is a recommendation at the next committee from officers will be
the same.
The recommendation won't change.
That's their professional assessment.
But it will be reported back as regards the members' comments in relation to that and
probably leading with the benefit to the community.
So does somebody need to propose that then?
Shall I propose it?
Just to be clear, it's not a final decision this evening, partly for the members of the
public as regards that.
So just being clear on it.
You're proposing not refusing this application?
For the reasons stated.
We are minded to approve for the reasons mainly.
The seconder?
Councillor Conway is seconding.
Okay, so do we need to take another vote?
I'm not sure.
Is that quite clear?
Yeah.
I mean, I think it's good to have a vote on that.
It shows that members – that's your decision to defer it on that basis.
Okay, so a vote to defer on that basis for those reasons?
That's all?
So I hope that was understood by members of the audience.
We have not agreed with the officer's recommendation to refuse, but it needs to come back to the
next committee to have a chance for putting in conditions and so on, and maybe we'll vote
again on approval or not.
Very briefly, one of the reasons for this process is that objectors may want to speak
on the next occasion, because objectors sometimes see an officer's report that says refuse.
They step back in those circumstances, so it allows that to happen.
So there will be speakers, but maybe objectors on the next occasion may want to speak.
I'm not saying they should, but that allows for that possibility.
Yes.
[Inaudible]
I believe the speakers, the supporters have actually made their case, so I don't think
they'll be given a second chance to do so.
Just to be clear, it would be communicated to it, but I have a feeling they're allowed
to speak again, but I don't want to cut across anybody and be proved wrong, but I believe
because it is re-hearing, as far as I'm concerned.
Yes, exactly, thank you.
Pretending on leave, and wait for you all to leave, and then they're going to move on
to 27-8, Millway.
[Inaudible]
No, we haven't.
We haven't.
We haven't made the decision.
You've indicated your decision, and that's fine, but it has to come back.
It calls to the constitution, and it's only where it's refusal, and it says it here, and
my reading is that it allows for speakers to happen again, because, as I said, if objectives
are objective.
I think the objectives were the Barnet Society, and Gordon Massey's Residence Association.
So, there was no individual objective, I don't think.
Right, let's move on then, 27-8, Millway.
Yes, thank you, Chair, 27-8, Millway, description as per report, did the sort of thing yesterday,
and, as can be seen from the report, the application was called in by Councillor Simberg.
Just run through the slides quickly, if I may.
So we have it on the, yeah, south-west side of Millway, two-storey, seven-attached property,
backing onto the M1 there, belt of trees and so on site, and you can see from the photo
there between the site and the motorway.
I was looking down the garden there, so the host property is divided into flats, two flats,
I think 27-8 is the upstairs flat, we saw an existing out building there, and down the
bottom of the garden there is where the proposed building would go, and there we can see on
Block Plan, so in the bottom corner there, it was proposed to be measured 7.3 metres
wide, 6.3 metres deep, and, as we'll see in a minute, simple flat roof proposed building,
2.5 metres high there, to be used as a gym, home office, storage, and there's a small
W.C. in there, I think a shower room just in the top corner there.
Short and sweet, site is appropriate in context, similar to about buildings in the street,
not the character, what's not mentioned there are the trees, as we can see, trees are not
protected but clearly there's a relationship between the trees that started with motorway,
so there's a condition recommended that details of foundations of the proposed building have
to be submitted and approved by us before anything commences in order to preserve the
health and security of the trees so that the building doesn't adversely affect them and
may adversely affect, have an impact on the motorway, so a subject of that condition,
the normal ones, plus a condition required but it's used only ancillary to the host flat
and not for any other purpose or self-contained property, approval is recommended, thank you.
Thank you, we have one speaker, Roger Titchbourne. Thank you Mr Titchbourne, thank you, you've
been here before so you know the procedure, the microphone's on, you have three minutes
to speak and you'll be given a warning when you have one minute left.
Right okay, well first of all, I had a long sort of list of objections to this, I've been
away in France, I only managed to review the council's recommendations yesterday and on
reviewing them I was horrified to see that the ball's really been dropped here, there's
a major risk presented by the mitigations the council suggests, if you look at the issues,
the mitigations for damage to trees, what you didn't mention is in my garden, I live
at number 29, there is a mature copper beech tree that's over a hundred years old that
borders next to the property, I can show you a picture of it, you can see that there's
the fence there, it's right up against it. Now the other thing that hasn't been mentioned
anywhere in any of this, I advised Mr Colloth when he bought this, I actually signed as
a witness the deed of transfer, when you look at the map it just looks like his garden,
the area that this new building that is in effect a self-contained flat is sitting on
was not his property until earlier this year, like the bottom of my garden, it used to form
part of the British Railways London Midland Region freight depot for Mill Hill, it was
owned by British Rail I think until 1991, it was in operation as a freight depot from
1868 till 1962 as I believe. Now my understanding, and I have spoken to friends who are in the
industry, is that any British Rail freight depot, if you're going to start building
on it, requires a ground survey to see if there's any contaminants in there. I wasn't
too concerned about this when the original plan was to put slat and concrete just over
the top and build on top of it, but the council's recommendation is to use low impact screw
piles which drill down and as far as I'm concerned that puts me, Mr Colleth and all
of the other neighbours in the road at risk from potential contaminants in the ground.
Now the ground is very very sodden, the drainage there, one of my other objections, and you
can see that from this, is there's no proper drainage, putting a concrete plate on this
is going to make my garden completely waterlogged at all times, but by doing what the council
have mitigated that I only saw yesterday, what they're actually talking about is digging
up all sorts of potential contaminants that would have been there in the ground, buried
for a very long time. Now what I'm asking the council to do is to ask Mr Colleth to
get a full ground survey and review that, see whether this solution that the council
recommends is still appropriate and then I'll come back and give you all my other objections
to the scheme. I do not see how any way you can approve a plan that puts people at risk
of contaminants. Thank you. Have we got any questions Mr Stichbourne?
Councillor Colleth. Sorry, you said that until last year this
piece of land that the proposed building was to be built on didn't belong to that property.
That's correct. So how did he gain control of the property?
British Rail owned the plot of land, it was a goods yard from 1868 until 1963, 1964. When
the M1 motorway was built it effectively became an orphaned portion of land because you had
the railway on one side and the plot of land on the other, but all the contaminants and
whatever were in the ground. There's a whole strip that goes all the way up Millway, including
my gardens, all the way up that was owned by British Rail I think until 1991. They sold
it to Safelands that were a property development company. I bought mine off Safelands around
that time. Mr Colleth bought his this year of a chap who lives up the road who had sort
of bought all the parcels when the various residents wanted to sort of resolve the situation.
Now when he bought it he was informed that there was the risk of contamination and if
you look on the land registry deeds the sale price, and bear in mind this is a site big
enough to put a flat on, I mean if you look at that, that is a one bedroom flat, he bought
it for £500. So that gives you some idea of the situation. It's all on the land registry,
I'm not making this up, you can check all of this. I did discuss it with him, I assisted
him in buying it from the neighbour up the road and I was quite horrified when I saw
these plans, but I didn't object on the grounds of contamination originally because I thought
he was just going to put a concrete slab over the top that would keep the contaminants in.
What the council have done is they have asked him to use pile drives to mitigate the risk
to the trees. Now the trouble with that is by digging piles you bring up all the contaminants
and put everyone at risk so it's actually a far worse solution for people in the neighbourhood.
What you need to do, what the council should have done was gone back to him and said you
need to do a site survey to see if there's any contaminants from the British Rail depot
on the site. I believe there was a British oxygen chemical depot on the site in the 50s
and so there is a high potential, there was also a coal sole from the site, I believe
there's a high potential for risk. I mean there may be none, but you can only…
Thank you Mr Titchbourne. We'll ask the officers to comment on that, we'll take that up, we'll
take it up further, thank you. Any other questions? Councillor Roberts?
Thank you. I just wanted to ask, are you aware of any other properties along Millway where
they have a flat in the rear garden? It's interesting, if you look at the impacts
on character which is 5.3 of the council papers, it lists property, it's 23, 41, 57, 59 and
63 that all have some sort of outbuildings. None are of the scale of this that I know,
I know several of the neighbours, they don't have toilets and showers in the building which
this property has and none of them, and I went through this morning and checked, have
planning permission for buildings on the site. So they've either been put up with it or
they're within the permit of development rules. So I think what you've thought is misleading.
There are no flats there that you're aware of?
None that I'm aware of, I mean I don't go around snooping in my neighbour's gardens,
but… I'm not quite sure why you think the flat
is going to be built here. Just to be clear, the application's not
for a flat? I know it's not, that's the point I'm
making. It's got a toilet, it's got a shower in
it, it's got a space for an office, which to me is a commercial usage. I do wonder whether
there's going to be business rates paid on it. There's space for a gym, I mean if
you look at the… I don't think you have to have too much of
an imagination to see what that could be, it's a huge space. I mean if you look at
the space, 27A is the upstairs flat. He's already got an office building at the top
of the garden that he's using. It was divided into two, I measured it out, the original
garden for 27 was 10 metres, with the bit that he's bought from what used to be British
World, the bottom half of it is 17 metres, and that takes up over two thirds of that
space. I mean if you look at it, it's nearly the same, it's about 60% of the floor space
of his house, it's not a small shed and it butts up absolutely tightly against the
fences on both sides. We've had a look at it so we have seen what
it's going to be like, and I think offices will confirm that in other situations if this
was a one house it could be built as it is under permitted development. It's because
it's a flat applying for it, because it needs planning permission, so we'll ask
officers to confirm that. My issue at the moment though with this is
the fact that the Council's suggestions, I mean I had a load of other objections I
was going to raise, but this actually puts myself, my neighbours and especially the ones
that are down the hill, we're up the hill from number 27, all the ones from 25 downwards,
if there's any contaminants they're going to have that running in the garden with rain
wash off. As I said we'll ask the officers to comment
on that, thank you. Any further questions? Thank you very much Mr Titchburn, and then
we have either Mr Colleth or Dominic Deer. Hello, so you're Mr Colleth?
Is it on? Hi, I'm Dominic. You're Mr Colleth?
No, I'm Dominic Deer. So you're the agent or the applicant?
I am, I'm the agent. The agent, thank you very much. Again you
have three minutes to speak and you'll be given a warning when you have one minute left.
Sure, sure. I got, it's more of a story this one, but I got married seven months ago and
the only two things I argue with my wife about are that when we work from home and all she
does is play her music so loud I can't concentrate. I've bought her earpods, I've bought earmuffs,
none of it works, and the other thing we argue about is that I leave my gym equipment all
over the living room and it really upsets her. I've tried to stop but I can't.
My life and perhaps most importantly my marriage would definitely be fixed with an outbuilding
exactly like this and if I had the budget I would definitely buy one. I can't speak
for the applicant if he's building it for the same reasons I would but it seems like
quite a nice place to go to train, go and do some work, get out of your flat, so for
those reasons I think it's okay and with regards to contamination, I mean I've been to site
doesn't look very contaminated to me but I'd be happy for any condition that officers want
to attach, re- any surveys or anything like that, no problem at all. Thank you.
Thank you, any questions? Anything else to say? Okay, thank you very much. Then to go
back to the offices if you can just make some comments first of all on the effect of the
labour's beech tree and the need for a survey about contaminants. As far as we're aware
of this side of the table it's residential, the land's residential. I've no idea about
contamination on that side, I wouldn't have thought that there was any because it's all
bare as a garden. If there was any issue it would come up over time as people are digging
in the gardens. So I'm not aware of anything to that nature to be perfectly honest. With
regard to the presence of other similar buildings in the area, not having planning permission
as I should have said and I apologise is that this would in normal, if this were a single
family house, this building would not require planning permission, it would most certainly,
I can't prejudge it, but it will most certainly be of a size, it's certainly of a size. And
the use says that it would be permitted development, permitted development stuff which you can
do under the GPDO without requiring planning permission as long as you're a single family
dwelling house. This is one, the uses would generally be incidental to it and it's a perfectly
common form of development and we have no control over what happens with regard to foundations
or anything else with it. Obviously we don't, no we don't, other than its use. With regard
to impact on trees next door, as far as I'm aware there's no GPOs but certainly not being
referred to in the report and again the use of that type of foundation is designed to
prevent any impact on the trees so you'd be using them on the back and you'd also want
to use them on the foundations all the way round just because it makes common sense.
With regard to a survey in respect to contaminated land conditions for that, I would have thought
it's excessive for a building of this sort in my opinion, it's got to be reasonable,
relevant tests and planning etc. and for a building of this size I would have thought
that we will probably fail on that test and open ourselves to a successful challenge at
appeal. What else was there?
These were the main things that I picked up on. Any other questions to the officers? No,
then we'll go to a vote. The officers are recommending approval. All those in favour
of approval? That's all. That application is approved and we move on now to three applications
for electric charging points. The first one is 18 Hamilton Square.
Good evening councillors, officers and members of the public present here. This application
has a corresponding advertisement application. As such there will be just one presentation
subject to two votes. The application is related to an EV charging point with associated double
sided advertisement panels and this is a borough wide project by Barnet Council in association
with Jolt. It supports the rollout of the net zero infrastructure in line with the strategic
objectives of the development management plan. The site is to be located outside of 18 Hamilton
Square. This is a street image and as you can see highlighted over there and that's
where the proposal is to be situated. We have the site location plan. The red light highlights
the current proposal being considered. I would also like to draw your attention to the blue
highlights over there. Exactly opposite to the proposed site location is one which is
an EV charging unit which has already been approved and is on site already. Further up
along Osage Lane we have opposite 11 and 12 of the parade. We have another proposal for
the EV charging unit which is to be considered at today's committee. Here's the proposed
layout. As you can see the EV charging unit is going to be located along the first parking
bay within the street and an associated feeder pillar is going to be sited towards the center
of an existing grass verge at this corner. The plans and elevations show that it's a
standard specification across all the Jolt applications that we've got with a maximum
height of 2.65 to the proposed EV charging unit and the associated pillar would have
a maximum height of about 1.18 meters. It is to be borne in mind that this cabinet is
going to be permitted development. This is how the EV Jolt unit looks like. You can see
how it's in action over here. The proposed location would be exactly opposite the grey
facade of this shopping unit, somewhere along the diagonal point of this shopping parade.
You can see here that the footway is rather wide. Therefore we feel that this application
should be recommended for approval subject to conditions. You can see that the setting
benefits from a commercial character. The street is already in the use of parking of
vehicles and there would be no impact on the flow of traffic. It's a dual functionality
as you saw within the images earlier. Street furniture is very minimal. It's just bollards
and some lampposts and the dual functionality of the unit would reduce for the street clutter.
Highway authority has raised no objection to the proposed scheme. It's acceptable within
in terms of the TFL streetscape guidance, wherein a minimum bit of clear width of about
two metres is required and this would allow about 4.8 metres clear footway and it would
also follow the 0.45 metres set off from the curb. As I said, it supports the roll out
of the net zero infrastructure within Barnard and the application is recommended for approval
subject to conditions. Thank you. I should just say that item 9 and item 10 are both
to do with this particular unit. Item 10 is about advertising on the unit. Item 9 is about
installing it. We will vote on them separately, but we will discuss and consider them together.
So we have Rob White of the East Barnet Residence Association. Then we just have Patrick Thomas
the agent. Now, as I say, we could be considering both these together, but we'll put on them
separately. There's two other applications that you're also speaking on with a similar
setup. I don't know if you want to. Just on that point. Do them all separately. What I
will do is because of Hamden and Onslow in close proximity, that will just be one speech.
Perhaps if we look at those together. Then we will go on to the next one perhaps. Do
you want to make the presentation for Onslow then as well, as they are close together.
So if we hear the presentation for Onslow parade. Present that one. Yes, present that
one as well. Okay, similar to what Tina just went through with the Hamden Square one. The
proposal is for the installation of a jolt unit. It's an electrical vehicle charge point
with integral double sided LCD screens and associated electrical connection works and
one parking bay allocated specifically to electric vehicles only. So this is the site
location. And this is where the unit will be placed. It's the first parking bay that
will be against there. The feeder panel would be approximately four meters away from the
actual unit itself. As Tina mentioned earlier on, the requirement for disabled wheelchairs
to be passable on the public footpath is approximately two meters either way. And that clears it
so there's sufficient distance from the back edge of the building lines to the edge of
the jolt unit. And the actual joint unit will be placed in 450 millimeters from the curved
line. The existing footway has a total width of 5.624 millimeters. So that clears it sufficiently
to enable sufficient sort of thorough through on the footpath and accommodate the jolt unit.
The height of the jolt unit is, these are pretty much standard units and it's as per
the other one, 2.65 meters high. And the actual width of it is 1.16 meters in width. So the
unit has no reflective materials and it's gray finish and is sympathetic to the street
scene and it's considered acceptable and subject to conditions officers have recommended for
approval. When the members went out on site visit, we did note that the jolt unit that's
already been implemented on Brookside South, I believe this road is. It's similar, identical
to what's been installed there and that's going to be installed on this location here.
Again, this is the site location. More information about the existing layout and that's the proposed
layout. So this is where the actual unit is going and that's where the feeder panel is.
I have nothing further to add. All right, thank you. On this one, on the parade, we've
got Ethner Rous, who wish to speak. Are you Mr Rous? No? So it's just Patrick Thomas again.
You can address us on both of these then. There's four applications but I'm not going
to give you 12 minutes to speak. If you need more than three minutes, you maybe are slightly
more. I think it's about a three minute speech. Thank you, Chair. Good evening councillors
and everyone in attendance. My name is Patrick Thomas and I'm the planning manager for Jolt.
I'm here tonight to speak about our ongoing collaboration with Barnet Council to deliver
affordable on-street electric vehicle charging powered entirely by renewable energy. Since
my last presentation two weeks ago, we've installed another charger bringing the total
in the borough to 37. The applications before you this evening – that's Hamden and Onslow
– have undergone extensive pre-application discussions and have been carefully considered
in terms of their location and impact. We're pleased to see that the officers have recommended
them for approval and we appreciate that statutory consultees including highways and design have
raised no objections. I would like to thank the officers for their thorough report and
for working with us collaboratively throughout the process. Councillors are already familiar
with the many benefits of Jolt chargers, cleaner air, support for local businesses and contributing
toward Barnet carbon reduction targets. You may recall that in April of this year a charger
was installed at Onslow Parade after approval from Barnet Council. Since its installation
the charger has become one of the busiest in our network, demonstrating a clear demand
for more chargers in the area. One reason for its success is its unique position as
it's located roughly a mile from the nearest other Jolt charger. The average charge time
at Onslow Parade is 62 minutes, higher than the Jolt network average of 51 minutes, indicating
that users are spending more time in the area. We know that 80% of our customers shop and
spend locally while their cars are charging. This directly benefits local businesses driving
foot traffic and supporting the high street. To further support local businesses we will
offer free advertising on our chargers to independent shops in the area. We've seen
this initiative work successfully in Temple Fortune where local businesses reported an
increase in trade thanks to the free advertising. The locations of the new chargers have been
thoughtfully chosen. They're positioned at a busy junction where wide pavements and the
surrounding area allow the chargers to blend seamlessly into the street scene without detracting
from the local character. We believe that the applications before you tonight will promote
sustainability and green economic growth in Barnet. We hope that you support the officer's
recommendation for approval. Thank you for your time and I'd be happy to answer any
questions. Thank you. Any questions on these two, Councillor Roberts?
I just wanted to ask, out of interest really, is there a target for how many institutions
or installations, rather, there should be within, say, the Brunt Park Ward?
And there's not a target, but what I can say is that there won't be any more within this
immediate location. We believe that, as I said, we've got the capacity to have up to
three chargers. We wouldn't be looking for any more in the immediate area. I appreciate
that the wards are quite big. There is obviously a further charger that we're going to speak
about in a moment up on Churchill Road, which is actually in Brunt Park Ward, albeit is
it not in the ward? Oh, okay. That's good. Because that's over a mile away. So, yeah,
I think, to answer your question, I don't imagine any more chargers within the immediate
vicinity of Onslow Parade. But the demand for electric charging vehicles
is just in its nascence, isn't it? Just beginning. It is. I mean, we've got a target within the
borough and obviously what this does is fill a gap within our network that's currently
a gap in this area, hence why we want to provide more chargers.
Thank you. Any more questions? Okay, so we're going to
take these votes one at a time. First on 18 Hamden Square, the first one for installation
of the charging unit. The officer is recommending approval. All those in favour of approval?
That's all. So that application is approved. And the second one for 18 Hamden Square, which
is for the advertisement, for using it for advertising. All those in favour? That's all.
And then onto the next one, 11-12 Onslow Parade. Again, officers recommend approval of installing
the charging unit. All those in favour? That's all. That's approved. And have it used for
advertising. All those in favour? And that's all. So those four applications are approved.
And we move on now to the next one, which is similar to applications, one for installing
the unit and one for advertising at 468 Churchill Road.
Yes, thank you, Chair. Applications are there outside 468 Churchill Road. As before, a couple
of applications, one for full planning permission, we'll be able to add the consent. Description
as per report, the site was yesterday, so I'll just run through this quickly if I may.
So we've got the application site down there on the west side of Churchill Road, down the
bottom of the East Parnock Village end. Photo, right neck of woods there. It's just about
where you get a bit more detail in a minute. So we've got the proposed layout. So we've
got the feeder pillar, 0.38, 1m wide, 0.38D, 1.1m high, and that's on the boundary, proposed
to be on the boundary between 2A and 4, approximately in that position there. And the charge unit
itself, boundary between 4 and 6 in that position there. Same size as the others. I don't need
to go there, I don't think. I think you can't quite see it here, but on the plans, it shows
a gap of just over 2m between the main front wall of the buildings there and the side,
the front of the jolt, charging that position there. I think members have received correspondence
querying that distance in respect of little details in respect of the existing situation
that in roughly on the boundary there, not sure we got a photo of it. No, but members
saw the site yesterday and the shot fronts have got little features, little projections
where it comes out about 12cm I think from what's on the correspondence for a distance
of a width of about 30, 60cm, so it produces a narrow pinch point where the footway width
of that very small area is down from 2.009, I think it is on the plans, to 1.87 for a
very small pinch point. And this concern has been raised I think by an interested party
about that very matter in terms of public safety, etc. My opinion would be that for
a pinch point such as that, I don't believe that public safety access across the footway
would be prejudiced to any degree at all for a distance of that way, the site's level,
there's clear visibility, so I've got no more to add on that particular point in all
other aspects. Everything else is considered access, sorry that's not the site, that's
just a visual. Yeah, street furniture showing it, these are the sites here, so there are
the trees, that's looking at the site from across the road and we did just see a group
of three trees there, so the plan, so it's proposed to avoid those. Colleagues in trees
have seen it and they're satisfied there's no adverse impact on the health and future
of the trees. Highways are happy with it and approve the recommended terms of visual quality,
street scene, etc. It's an appropriate location, it's within a commercial area, it won't detract
from a character appearance of the area, there's no visual amenity aspects that applies to
both the planning side of this and the advertisement considerations of it. And regards to highway
safety, again highways have seen it, they have no issue with regard to the proposed
advertisement causing any issues with regard to safety. I've got nothing else to add,
approve and recommend it on both counts. Thank you. Thank you. We had Michael Lisvitsky who
wished to speak, I see that he's not here, but he's the one who had actually sent us
quite a lengthy email with lots of details about the distance there and so on, which
I'm sure we've all read. So again, Mr Thomas, if you'd like to come and make any comments
on this one. Good evening again councillors, thank you for allowing me to speak again.
Rather than reiterating the general benefits of Jolt, which I've shared with you previously,
I'd like to focus on the specifics of Church Hill Road. Currently, Jolt serves over two
and a half thousand customers who have completed more than 34,000 charges, most of them residing
right here in Barnet. However, Church Hill Road, located in the north-east of the borough,
remains underserved by charging infrastructure. The surrounding area, including streets such
as Capel Road, Jackson Road and Welbeck Road, are predominantly residential with many homes
reliant with on-street parking. It's worth noting that 84% of electric vehicles sold
in Barnet have been purchased by residents with driveways or off-street parking, leaving
those dependent on public charging at a disadvantage. Jolt's free and local charging options can
change this dynamic, helping accelerate the adoption of electric vehicles by making it
more affordable for those without private parking to transition to EVs. In addition
to promoting EV adoption, a reliable public charging network can reduce the number of
applications for front garden conversions into off-street parking, thus preserving the
green space and the character of our residential streets. To highlight the impact of our network,
I'd like to share the words of a Barnet resident and Jolt customer. The Jolt network is a game
changer for drivers who cannot set up at home due to a lack of driveway. It brings the running
costs much closer to home charging and overnight tariffs. I found the Jolt network 100% reliable
and the app is one of the easiest to use and most informative in the charging space. The
25 kilowatts per hour speed makes the chargers incredibly convenient. Now, just turning to
the specific location of this application, the site has been carefully selected in collaboration
with the council's arboricultural officer to ensure no harm is caused to the street
trees and I'm pleased to report that the arboricultural officer has raised no objections. The highways
officer has raised no concerns in relation to parking, including the potential remarking
of the space. That's going to be subject to a separate traffic management order and as
we know, Jolt customers spend in the local area when they are charging. In conclusion,
we believe that this application will help promote sustainability and green economic
growth in Barnet. We hope that you will support the officer's recommendation for approval.
Thank you for your time and I'd be happy to answer any questions.
Thank you. I just wondered if you could comment a little bit about the distance between, that's
left which may or may not be just under the two metres or…
Yes, of course. Just to note that, you know, this is just a very, the Jolt charger, the
actual width of the unit and this pinch point is very narrow. What I would say is that it
is TfL, it's guidance, it's not policy and therefore, you know, in some occasions,
and I think this would be one of them where it is just a very small, literally 20 centimetres
where that gap narrows below two metres, this is acceptable would be my response to that.
Any other questions? Councillor Roberts.
Do we know what's the average time spent on a Jolt recharger here in the borough?
Yes, 51 minutes is the average time charged.
Is there a maximum time to be spent there? No maximum I suppose, but when your car potentially
is fully charged that's obviously dependent on the battery and the conditions but, you
know, 51 minutes is in the region of 110 miles, it obviously depends what miles you're doing
but on average that would give you 110 miles worth of power.
Thank you. Have there been other instances where you've applied for your chargers
that have been of a similar distance from the charger to the building?
Yes, we have got similar instances in the borough where it's been on or around two
metres, obviously our preference is to exceed that where possible but there have been instances
where it has been marginal, shall we say, as is the case here.
Any other questions? No, thank you very much. Any questions to the officers or comments?
No, then we will go to a vote on these. First of all on the recharging units, the officers
are recommending approval, all those in favour? It's 5 and against 1. And for the useful advertising,
all those in favour? 5 and I'm not voting on that so I didn't approve the unit.
So that's those two applications for Churchill Road are approved. And that is the end of
tonight's business. Thank you very much.
Transcript
My name is Claire Farrier, I'm the chair of this committee and I'm a Councillor for East
Finchley Ward. Thank you all for attending the planning committee this evening. I will
ask the other members of the committee to introduce themselves, followed by the planning
officers, the legal officer and the governance officer. So, Councillor Callick, if you could
start.
Councillor Wyndle, Collindale South Ward.
Councillor Tim Roberts, Underhill Ward.
Councillor Richard Barnes, Barney Vale.
Councillor Joshua Conway, Hendon Ward.
Dino Oliveira, planning officer.
Heidi Oskar, planning manager.
Dave Prince, deputy planning manager.
Jimmy Walsh, legal advisor to the committee.
Georgina Wills, governance officer.
Thank you. We ask that you remain seated throughout the meeting unless you are called to the table
to address the committee. Please note that meetings may be recorded and broadcast as
allowed for in normal by the Council and by attending, either in person here or online,
you may be picked up on recordings. Council recordings are covered by our privacy notice
and that can be found on the website at www.barnet.gov.uk. So, the procedure is for each of the applications.
The planning officer will present the applications first of all, then each speaker will have
three minutes to address the committee and the governance officer will inform you when
there is one minute left. And we will then have the opportunity to ask questions of the
speakers and then of the officers and then to discuss and come to a decision. Following
the decisions, we will determine the application and I will announce the committee's decision.
We'll ask you when you come to the table to turn the microphone on and we'll explain how
to do that or show you when you come. There's a slight variation in the agenda. I think
that many of you are here for one particular item, the church hall. As I understand it,
there's quite a lot of interest in that item. So, we have moved that up to the agenda. That
will be the first full application that will be considered. No, it is to be the first.
We brought it up once. So, after the hearing of the minutes and other minor things, the
first item to be heard will be Marwood Court and then St. Mary's Church Hall and then Millway
on the order that is on here. Does that make sense? I hope everybody is here for those.
The first full item on the agenda is the minutes of the last meeting, which I hope everybody
has seen. We have three minutes. Councilor Greenspan, do you want to say? Oh, you're
proving it. Okay, I'll just sign the minutes. Abstinence of members, I think all the committee
are here today. There is no abstinence of members. Do any members have any declaration
of interests? No. The monetary officer has not granted any dispensations. I think the
addendum was just the minutes of the last meeting, was it? So, there is no addendum
about particular applications this evening. So, then we move straight on to the first
item, which is Marwood Court. Yes, thank you, chair. Marwood Court description
as per the report and as per the slide there. This application was reported to this committee
at its last meeting on the 26th of September and whilst committee resolved to agree the
recommendation, the decision has not been issued. In the meantime following the meeting,
it was found that the officer report contained inaccurate dimensions in respect of the height
of the building. This was due to an officer error in scaling the plans and I apologise
for that error and it happened to come back. It was not an error in the plans themselves,
I bear fine. It was considered appropriate to refer the application back to committee
to ensure that members take a decision based on the corrected dimensions. The original
report referred to an overall increase in height of 1.2 metres, when in fact it should
have referred to an increase of 2.3 metres and that has dealt with in the preamble to
the report. I will just run through the plans quickly if I may. That's a bit too quick.
There we have the application site at the end of Grecian Road. We have Wentworth Avenue
along there and to the south west it's Wentworth Park. It's an existing block of three storey
flats with flat roof as we'll see in a minute. We've got the area of the building there.
Street views, a better one showing the existing building subject site. Commercial building
next door, that's the back of the name of the property in Wentworth Avenue. Close look
of the boundary, residential properties to the rear there, some distance away which we'll
come to in a minute. Coming across the site looking down Grecian Road. Existing floor
plans, each floor contains two flats, so a total of six flats in the building at the
moment. There we've got the existing elevations from the side, simple building, flat roof
and there we can see a slight flooring level across the site. Existing and proposed site
plans, existing at the top, proposed, we can see the alterations there, provided a couple
of parking spaces in that location, bin stores at the front, bike stores there and that just
shows the new roof going on to accommodate the proposed two flats. Proposed elevations,
so as members will remember, flat roof at the moment, so putting a pitched roof on there
to accommodate two one bed flats. As we can see from the elevations, the roof pitches
away on all sides into the site itself, so it's pitching away from the site boundaries
which reduces the impact quite considerably on the neighbouring property in our opinion.
The remaining elevations from the side, as we can see from the other drawings, there's
dormer windows on all four sides. Floor plans, two one beds, there we've got the long section
through, so that's effectively what's there at the moment. Just a little behind that floor
level proposal, significant distance away, let's see if I can remember, I've got the
distances somewhere, yeah, just go back to the site plan again. So yeah, in regards to
the relationship to Wentworth Park, it's 32 metres to the boundary, 33 metres to the rear
elevation of the housing in Wentworth Avenue, which is to the north west, which is almost
33 metres away, 32 on that side, and from the front of the site to a property opposite,
that's a distance of 23 metres. So whilst the new roof would be clearly visible from
the neighbouring properties, there's no dispute in that. In our opinion, it wouldn't be overbearing
or visually obtrusive to such a degree, given those distances involved, over 30 metres to
neighbouring properties, and 23 to a property opposite. Of little, I've tried to report
that the proposed units are standard, parking's acceptable, bin store provision, and cycle
provision acceptable. In our opinion, it won't affect the character appearance of the building.
I say, given the distances involved in marketing, there is no adverse impact on my mates and
neighbours, and approval is recommended. Thank you.
Thank you. Before we go to the speakers, I'll just say that we did take a vote on this at
the last meeting, and approved this application at the last meeting. We're considering it
tonight as a new application, and we have taken into consideration all the information
that we have, the Office's report, the new information, and emails, and other information
that some of the objectors have provided. So please be assured that we are considering
this fully as a new application, with all the information that we have. So speakers
that we have are Mark Lester and Helen Simons. I don't know which order you would like to
come forward. Yeah, so one at a time. Thank you, Mark. If you could turn the microphone
on if you remember how to do that, it's a sort of face symbol. It's all right, we'll
come and show you. It's easier if we show you. Oh, okay. Okay, thank you. As I said,
you have three minutes to speak, and you'll be given a warning when you have one minute
left. Okay. Well, I'm speaking on behalf of myself and Kenji and Neil. Could you both
just stand up? I'm speaking on behalf of the three of us. We all object equally strongly
to this. Danny will go into the technicalities better than I can, because he's a surveyor,
but my main objection is the degree to which the building is overbearing. Mr Nyman said
it's not excessively overbearing, and that was one of the reasons he was recommending
approval. But he can't know that because he hasn't been in our gardens and he hasn't seen
the degree to which we're overlooked already. Well, we won't be overlooked in fairness because
of the frosted windows, but the building is overbearing. It will look horrible for us.
It will affect our sunlight, it will affect our perspective, it will affect our enjoyment
of the building, of our own properties, that is. I've reprinted off a couple of pictures
of my garden, which I'd like to allow you to have a view of, which I'll give you in
a second. And the other thing is that in one of the images that was posted up there, frankly,
showing a tree that was far taller than the existing building, which doesn't exist, again
misleading. You'll see the degree to which we're overlooked from these images. I could
have printed off images from Neil's garden or Kenji's garden, would have looked pretty
much the same. And as for it being in line with the suburban character of the street,
again, I feel that you haven't been given a fully comprehensive impression of the road,
because this is how it will look. This is the look immediately opposite the Edwardian
houses. They're very pretty, and having what is practically a skyscraper on the opposite
side is out of keeping with the suburban environment that it's in.
One minute remaining.
That's about all I wanted to say, actually, so I'm done in two minutes. My objection
is the overbearing degree, and I do want to say that, you know, if any of you lived in
my house, you wouldn't want an extra floor on that building. Nobody would. Councillor
Richard came to my house, said he wouldn't like it. My gardeners said he wouldn't like
it. Then everyone who's visited my house said they wouldn't like it. The same for Kenji
and Neil.
OK, thank you. Could we just point out exactly where your house and your neighbour's house
is?
Oh, you can't see on the plan.
You can see on the plan which houses you're talking about.
Oh, I'd have to come up, if I'm allowed.
Can you point out the numbers?
Do you want to go round?
Carefully, wonder-wise.
So my house is that one, and Neil's house is that one, and Kenji's house is that one.
OK, thank you. Take a seat then, we'll see if there's any other questions from members
of the committee.
How long has Marm Court been established there?
It was there when I moved in, so I know it's plus 20 years.
So it's been there for 40 years?
The existing three storeys of Marm Court have been there since the 1960s.
Sorry, the question is to the person at the table at the moment, rather than somebody
else to answer.
It's only Mr Lester who can answer your question.
Well, I was about to say anyway, I think it's a '60s or '70s building.
It's been tolerated for that long.
Well, I mean, I couldn't have it pulled down.
So if you said tolerated, if I heard you correctly.
Well, by the local residents, assuming the original building.
Well, I mean, we're not going to have a riot when it was erected.
Oh, OK.
Can the speaker just answer the questions, please, and not to anyone else?
Yeah, so when you're actually there, then we can actually address the committee.
Thank you.
OK.
Oh, so basically, that question will be answered by Mr Kaye in a moment.
Any further questions?
Thank you very much, Mark.
Thank you.
Next speaker.
Sorry, I didn't get your name, so if you could introduce yourself.
Mr Kaye, Daniel Kaye.
Daniel Kaye, yeah.
OK.
OK, Mr Kaye.
And I'm speaking on behalf of Mark and the two other residents, the neighbours in Wentworth
Avenue.
That's fine.
Thank you.
And again, you'll have three minutes to speak.
Thank you.
And you'll get the warning when you have a minute left.
Well, thank you very much.
Good evening, members.
Thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak on behalf of Mr Lester and the neighbours.
I did speak a couple of weeks ago.
I am in the business.
I'm at Charles's Way.
I'm a member of the Town and Country Planning Association.
I've worked on over 300 development projects.
Normally, I find myself supporting new development.
On this rare occasion, I find myself supporting an objection.
I think there's good grounds for this.
I think Barnet has an excellent track record of new homes delivery, and that does continue,
but I think this one is a mistake.
Why do I say this?
Because I make specific reference to some of your own policies, and I quote from your
supplementary planning document, Residential Design Guidance, October 2016, which states,
Proposals for new residential development should respond to the distinctive local building
forms and patterns of development and respect the scale, massing and height of the surrounding
physical context.
Furthermore, paragraph seven of Safeguarding Residential Amenity of the SPD also makes reference
to where overlooking or over or implicitly overbearing is a problem, especially in relation
to neighboring development, a higher degree of privacy will normally be required.
Now, I make reference to these specific two points, not because the existing three stories
hasn't been there since the 1960s, it clearly has, but an additional story will exacerbate
the problem and be contrary to your own policies.
What I think is disappointing in this instance is that there's no analysis to this effect
in the Planning Committee report.
Indeed, as Mr. Lester pointed out, the planning officer has not visited the site, did not
visit Mr. Lester's property, going to the garden, and therefore, at the very, very least,
I think it's incumbent upon the committee to either refuse the application or defer
to a site visit by planning experts, by the planning committee.
Sorry, planning officers, I should say, you've been to a site visit, but I don't think you've
been to Mr. Lester's property.
So, I would just reiterate, I think this is really important because objectively, in my
opinion, there hasn't been sufficient reference to your own policies, and I think this is
an omission in the Planning Committee report, and I say this having worked on hundreds of
planning projects and development projects, so I should be grateful if you can consider
this very, very carefully, and thank you for listening, and I'm happy to answer any questions.
Thank you.
Councillor Carrick.
Thank you.
You mentioned in your presentation that part of the 2016 guideline was that it was to safeguard
people's privacy.
Does this actual extended bit have any windows overlooking the properties?
It's not so much the windows, it's the scale and overbearing nature which impacts upon
the sense of privacy, and there's much case law on this that isn't just about windows,
it's the appearance of and the impression of and the experience that people will enjoy
or not enjoy as the case may be by the additional story, which is 2.3 metres as opposed to 1.2
as previously specified.
The other point I would make, which I think is relevant, is that it is my understanding
that there is no lift provided in the existing block.
There is no proposed lift to be provided in the existing block.
These two properties, these two one-bed homes on the top floor, fourth floor, would normally,
if this was a new build scheme, be non-compliant with building regulations, so if you give
planning approval, you're on the cusp of compliance with Part M of building regulation because
there is no lift being provided.
So I think this is an important point.
I know it's a moot point, there are sometimes interpretations about what is compliance with
Part M, but I think it's important this would certainly not satisfy what used to be referred
to as lifetime homes.
Thank you, any other questions?
I think that's it.
Thank you very much.
Thank you very much.
We now go back to the offices – sorry, I'm missing out on the agents again on behalf
of the applicant, Joe Henry.
Thank you, and again, just make sure you know the procedure, we have three minutes to speak.
Thank you, Chair and members.
My name is Joe Henry, I'm the agent acting for the application.
As you know, members, the proposal was approved by this committee on 26 September, however,
because the officer reports contained inaccurate figures on the height of the existing proposed
proposal being presented again to the committee.
I am grateful officers have confirmed the applicant's drawings are accurate, but were
just interpreted incorrectly by officers.
The application has been referred to this committee by Councillor Rich, because he was
concerned about the possible overlooking of Gardens and Wentworth Avenue.
That was the sole reason why he asked for this to go to committee.
I did email Councillor Rich and explain the windows facing the rear windows of properties
in Wentworth Avenue are proposed to be obscure glazed to ensure no overlooking.
He kindly responded and said he did discuss the matter of local residents, but they remain
of the view that an extra floor at Marwood Court impinges on their gardens.
As stated in your officer report, the two post windows facing the rear gardens of Wentworth
Avenue will be obscure glazed, meaning there will be no overlooking.
I would also draw your attention to the suggested planning condition number 10, which requires
these windows to be obscure glass only and shall be permanently retained as such thereafter.
In respect of the impact the proposal has on the character and appearance of the building
and locality, I would comment as follows.
The application site forms part of a street which has a very mixed character of residential
and commercial properties with varying designs, massing and heights.
The proposal proposed a mansard roof extension with a pitch roof and on an existing flat
roof.
The existing flat roof block style building has limited architectural merit.
Almost every other building with the road and indeed beyond in Wentworth Avenue has
a pitch roof.
The introduction of a pitch roof would significantly improve the design form of the existing building
overall, contributing positively to the character and appearance of the building and locality.
It is also important to note the proposal seeks to provide two additional dwellings
which will contribute to addressing the housing crisis, something on which the new Government
has prioritised as the top priority.
Thank you for listening, I'll be happy to answer any questions you may have, including
the building regulation matter that was raised by the speaking objector.
Thank you.
I mean if you'd like to comment on the building regulation, we're asking the officers as well,
but have you got any comments on that?
About the building regulation comment, it's not a building control requirement to provide
a lift unless there's a planning condition requiring one to be provided.
It's referred to as part 4(m)(2) of the building regulations, which is a discretionary part
of the building regulations which is only a requirement to be imposed if there is a
planning condition.
A planning condition can only be imposed if there is actually a prospect that a lift can
be provided and obviously it's impossible to provide a lift because you have to go through
other people's flats.
So in that case, that's why there's no need for a lift or none is required by either building
regs or planning.
Any other questions?
Councillor Roberts.
I just wanted to be clear about this issue about overlooking.
You're quite clear that there is no perspective of overlooking from this extension to this
building to the properties and Wentworth?
I mean if the officers could put up the relevant elevation facing the rear gardens of Wentworth
Avenue, it would be clear that the two additional windows, I think it's two, they're going to
be obscure glazed and fixed up and permanently retained as such.
Sorry?
It's on the pitch roof, yes.
The extra floor is at the pitch roof.
No, there will be no overlooking and I could hear from the last speaking object that they've
changed their tack somewhat because they realise there is no overlooking because I think they
accept that there will be no overlooking.
Thank you.
Any further questions?
No, thank you very much.
Thank you.
Yes, perhaps if we could have some further comments from the officers.
We heard that the additional story will be contrary to the council policies.
Mr Henry has already commented on the requirement for a lift, but I wonder if you could speak
about that.
With regard to the building regs, I've got nothing else to add to what Mr Henry said.
That's perfectly right and proper, there is that provision there, but it is discretionary.
If it's unreasonable and prejudice to the development, then it's not something which
we would pursue, particularly in new developments, but in this one where it's an extension to
an existing building, to try and put a loft in there would just render the development
unviable and reasonable and would just not be possible.
So if there is that relaxation, that discretion in the system which allows that, and that's
I think in London Plan as well.
Mr Kay also said that the additional story is contrary to council policies.
Well, council policies, is it appropriate in the character of the area, and as we've
got nothing to add really to the character of the area, as we can see it's not very clear
actually on the photos at that scale, but as we can see across there, we've got commercial
buildings, pitched roof, you could almost argue that the existing building is different
to the remaining character in that it's a three storey flat roof building, the majority
of buildings in this particular area have some form of pitched roof on it, so it's not
unreasonable to argue that it's actually improving it.
Is it improving it at the cost of the amenity of a neighboring residence?
In my opinion, no, because it's too far away, and if you like the damage is already done
by the vertical plane of the building at three storeys, the roof pitches in like that, so
whilst it is higher, it's going away from the sensitive edges of the building, so the
height is further away from the neighboring residence.
Will they see it?
Yes, of course, everybody's going to see it, it's going to be visible in the street scene,
I think as can be seen from photos that were circulated by other members of power, it's
clearly visible from the rear gardens and neighboring properties, but the fact it may
be visible doesn't mean it's harmful.
It's too far away, it's not overbearing, it's not obtrusive, you'll see it, but in my opinion
it's not going to cause harm, such as to want refusal and the potential loss of additional
two units to the housing stock.
Thank you, we'll consider that.
Finally, can you just confirm again that the drawings, what we were considering last time
by looking at the drawings and when we mentioned the site visit was accurate, it's just, it
was written down, what was written down as the measurements was...
Yeah, I can only apologise for whatever reason, got the scaling wrong, the drawings remain
the same, you know, we've got no issue with the accuracy of the drawings, it was probably
looking at, I don't know if it's 1-200, 1-200, but whatever, looking at the wrong one from
the sort of distance that it's out, it's almost double, so it's, the plans and relationships
are accurate, our members were seeing it, certainly have we seen it, it's fine, it's
fine, it was just a simple error which happens from time to time and fortunately we were
able to pick it up.
Thank you, any further questions or comments to make?
If not, we'll go straight to the vote.
The office's recommendation is for approval, all those in favour of approval?
That's all, so this application is approved, thank you.
And we will move on now to Church Hall St Mary in Barnet.
So this application relates to Church Hall of the Virgin Church of England Church in
Camlent Way, the proposal involves demolition and rebuild of the existing two-storey Church
Hall.
Just to clarify, this application has been called into committee by Councillor Weiser
on heritage grounds, so this is the site location plan and this is the Church Hall.
The site is within the green belt and also falls within Monck and Hadley Conservation
Area, it's in an area of archaeological significance and also covered by Article 4 direction.
The common opposite is site of importance for nature conservation, so the Church Hall
is locally listed and is set within the grounds of Grade 2 star listed parish church and it
forms part and parcel of the Grade 2 star listed church curtilage.
There is no boundary as such between the two sites.
So the extensions, previous extensions have been granted but applicants state that the
building for foundations are not sound enough for the restoration of the original building
and therefore cannot implement the extensions granted last year.
So the building footprint, I don't know if you can see this but the red line denotes
the existing building line, so the building footprint is approximately 21.6 metres in
width, 7.2 metres in depth and 4.7 metres to eaves height and 7.7 metres ridge height.
The replacement building would be one metre wider which is at this point here and it will
be set in one metre in from this church boundary.
So just to note that the existing ridge height and the east side will remain as per the existing.
The replacement also proposes single storey element to the south side which is on this
side here and a two-storey element to the north side.
So as I said the rear building, sorry, the actual relocation of the new building would
be cited one metre from where the actual existing building is at the present time, so it would
be a metre in from this boundary here.
So the increase in volume represents 26.6 cubic metres over the existing volume.
Heritage officers have objected on the grounds that there will be substantial harm to a non-designated
heritage asset and significant harm to the setting of a grade two star listed building
and harm to the character and appearance of the monk and had the conservation area.
Heritage officers also comments that church house makes a good contribution to the setting
of the curtainage of the listed church building.
Also the proposal adds significant number of windows in the west elevation along through
here.
So these are the existing site photos, that's the internal and this is the rear elevation.
Again more photographs of the site, again more photos of the site.
So this is the existing plans as you will see at ground floor level there's only very
small windows facing the churchyard and at first floor there's only one window at first
floor level.
These are the existing elevations, you can see the windows are fairly small and there
wouldn't be any overlooking of the churchyard, basically they're very small windows.
So in the proposed elevations and sections number of windows have been added to the rear
elevation which faces onto the church building and that faces onto the churchyard.
So the heritage officers have said that because of the proposal adds significant number of
windows in the west elevation facing towards the churchyard and the church building that
this would have an impact on the setting of the church, the grade two star-listed church
buildings.
As you've seen from the existing there are limited windows in that elevation meaning
that large degree of privacy was afforded to the burial ground and to those mourning
their deceased.
The additional windows which is five at ground level and six at first floor level would intrude
on those people that respects to their deceased with the proposed open boundary rails that
would allow views directly through to the churchyard and that is the significant harm
that the heritage officers have identified with regards to this application.
Whilst the officers are all in support of the ultimate objective of the church and the
restoration of the church hall and facilities fit for the community's needs, however justification
has not been made to demonstrate that the existing building could not be stabilised
and repaired enabling it to be extended and refitted for modern use.
In the absence of an appraisal assessing the feasibility of the cost of the remedial work
as opposed to rebuild, the case for demolition has not been made by the applicants.
So the application has been recommended for refusal on two grounds.
The first one is demolition of the existing and its replacement would result in substantial
harm to non-designated heritage asset which is a locally listed church hall building and
a high level of harm to the setting of a grade two star listed building failing to preserve
and or enhance the character and appearance of the Monk and Huddie conservation area contrary
to policies.
Second reason is on the grounds that the replacement building would by reason of its size, bulk,
lighting and massing appear material larger than the existing building and the proposal
would represent an inappropriate development within the green belt so no case for very
special circumstances has been demonstrated to outweigh the harm.
I have nothing further to add, we do have speakers.
Thank you, Councillor Emma Whistle.
Thank you Emma, I think you know the procedure, you have three minutes to speak if you've
given a warning when you have one minute left.
Thank you Chair.
I'm not going to keep the committee long with my remarks, mainly the two things I'd like
to focus on are the loss of a heritage building.
The reality is that the community and the area has pretty much lost this building now.
The cost of rebuilding and restoration rather than knocking it down and rebuilding a building
from scratch is so astronomically higher than what has already been raised over a number
of years by the community that it will not happen and it means that the building will
continue to deteriorate in space, attract antisocial behaviour probably and will be
lost to the community in any event.
This is the best opportunity that we have to replace this building in an in-kind manner
that will fit with the local area and will be of benefit to the community.
So when we talk about losing a heritage building, this building has already been lost due to
the condition that it currently is in and in terms of the harm to the area, the current
building I believe has a modern lean-to on it, which will obviously come down with the
building and mean that the building can be replaced in a more in-kind manner.
I'm unsure how harm is caused by being able to look from the church hall onto the Grade
II listed church and enjoy that outlook.
In fact I think it enhances the area and enhances the ability to enjoy the beauty of this church,
which is part of the community and a historic part of this community.
The building will be the new building, a community asset which has much local support as you've
seen from the papers, 32 letters of support for the building and many people here tonight
have come in support of it.
As a local councillor I'm fully in support of this project to rebuild the building.
I've had no one contact me as a local councillor, requesting that I oppose this application
and all communication that I have received has been in favour of this application.
Thank you.
Questions, Councillor Callick?
Can you give us an indication of the differential between restoration and a complete new rebuild?
I know it's impossible to give an exact figure but some sort of estimation.
I believe that the next speaker can address that.
I understand it is significantly higher.
The community has raised about 700,000 including still money which will just about cover maybe
a bit more if needed.
I'm looking at the fundraising chair to cover the rebuild and I understand that the cost
of restoration is approaching double that but I'll allow the next speaker to address
that in more detail.
Yes, I think you managed to get quite a sizeable funding from the area committee towards refurbishing
if you like, towards putting the new extensions on which planning permission was given for.
So as that was quite recent, I'm wondering why now it's come to demolition.
To be clear, the application for still funding was on the basis of this current planning
application.
The application for still funding was heard I think the day after the public consultation
on this planning application closed.
So it was on the premise of demolition.
Other questions?
We don't think that's where we're at.
Just want to be quiet.
If a new building is constructed on that site, would the range of activities that take place
must be able to be extended to the benefit of the local community?
I understand it would be.
I think also that obviously the building part of the increase in space is a health and safety
consideration allowing for disabled access which this building would not have allowed
for in its original design and allow more spaces so more groups can use the building
at the same time with a mezzanine level and other such improvements that will allow more
people to use the building and expand its use by the community.
Any further questions?
Thank you very much, Emma.
And then we have Alan Cox who is the App and Contendo agent.
If you can switch the microphone on.
That's it.
Now you have three minutes.
Is that okay?
Yes.
You have three minutes to speak.
They give a warning when you have one minute left.
Yes.
Good evening, chair and members.
My name is Alan Cox and I'm the agent action on behalf of the church.
Obviously thank you for allowing me to address you this evening on what has become an important
issue for the church and wider community over the last six years.
Despite the case officer's report before you stating that we did not engage in pre-app
advice, we did receive a pre-app report on the 14th of September 2018 when this whole
journey began.
The case officer's report also states that insufficient evidence has been submitted to
justify that the building is beyond economic repair.
Structural engineers have been monitoring the building since 2007 and commissioned five
metre deep boreholes to be taken to establish the reason for the continual movement of the
building.
This established that the building was constructed on made up ground down to a depth of 1.5 metres
along the main front wall which was causing the building to break its back.
The borehole report was submitted with the application as part of the structural engineers
report.
I would therefore like to briefly address the planning issues and the two recommendations
or two recommended reasons for refusal.
Firstly, materially larger.
The increase in volume is 26.6% against the guidelines in the SPD of 25%.
This policy is a guideline only and we recently received an appeal decision within the Hadley
area where an increase of 27% was accepted and the appeal upheld.
In her decision, the inspector stated the following.
It is clear that the SPD does not intend the 25% guidelines to be implied in a rigid way
and in my view, the additional 2% increase would in principle lie within a reasonable
range of tolerance.
The 1.6% increase is primarily to cover current disability space standard requirements for
new communal buildings including part M of the building regulations to allow access for
all.
The existing building cannot be adapted to meet these requirements.
Secondly, the loss of a locally listed building.
A highly qualified heritage consultant was appointed to advise the church on the proposals.
The church also consulted English heritage which visited the building.
Both came to the same conclusions which were and I quote, the locally listed church house
is considered to possess low architectural and artistic interest and low historic interest.
The heritage values of the building has been severely compromised by substantial and invasive
alterations made throughout its lifetime which have removed all evidence of any 18th and
19th century uses as a stable or residential dwelling.
Any perceived harm from the loss of the building is considered to be outweighed by the substantial
public benefits offered by the scheme, principally in a re-establishment of a high quality, contextually
designed and fully accessible community facility.
I've got one more paragraph.
English heritage also concluded the building lacks sufficient historic fabric to meet special
interest and it has lost all trace of its original plan form and interior with crude
interventions into the fabric and the case for listing has not been fulfilled.
Thank you, chair and members.
Thank you.
Any questions?
Councillor Roberts.
Thank you, chair.
I just want to check if the current situation with this building is downgrading itself,
I guess, by the look of it.
There are local activities that would make use of that building if there was an appropriate
building there that at the present time have nowhere else to go, is that the case?
Yes, Councillor Roberts, that's actually correct.
Obviously, the building's been closed due to the dangerous structure of the building
which you probably noticed during your site visit.
It's been closed since June 23 so none of the users of that building have been able
to operate anywhere else.
Cricket's been played on the common for 200 years.
The cricketers have got no place to change or the put-in-ex old people society can't
meet there.
Guides, brownies, can't meet there.
There are so many communities that cannot use the building and it's a shame it's going
to be lost to the community if something's not done.
Councillor Barnes.
Good evening.
Could you tell us a little bit more about how much you've looked into the possibility
of restoring the existing building, the cost of that, particularly with the approved extensions
that had been given as well?
Yes, of course.
When we received the previous permission, which is for our renovations and extensions,
the church instructed us to carry out a full structural design, a full working drawings
and a full specification of works and with those drawings and specifications we went
out to tender.
We was expecting budgets to come in around the 700, 750 but they were coming in over
a million and even then the contractors said that they couldn't guarantee that the work
they were carrying out, it wouldn't go up.
There was such a large contingency because trying to support the existing structure while
building a new structure in it, they couldn't guarantee that even that with the subsoil
that it's on and all the main ground wouldn't continue to move.
Hence, we took the quite drastic decision to actually apply for a rebuild despite the
fact that we knew that the planning authority wouldn't support it.
Thank you.
Any further questions?
Another one, if I may, the existing building is quite an attractive building even if it
is falling down.
Will you be able to reuse any of the material in the existing building for a new building?
Yes.
I don't know if you've got the CGI image that we submitted with it.
I didn't see that come up when he was making the presentation.
There was a full photorealistic CGI submitted with it.
No, it's not there.
Sorry, but anyway, irrespective of that, yes, on the CGI drawing, we intend to recycle as
much of the brickwork and tiles.
So we don't intend to put them in a skip, they'll all be stacked, set aside, damaged
ones replaced.
But if you look at the existing photographs, the existing elevations have been, there's
a whole mismatch of different brick types where it's been infilled, where it's cracked
and they've pointed it back in.
All the windows, sash windows are out of skew, the arches have gone.
So there's a limited amount that we can actually recycle, but we will do our best to take whatever
we can.
There's also a condition to say that any new material should be submitted and approved
by the local authority prior to commencement.
So we'll get as near as much as possible to what's there at the moment.
Any further questions?
Thank you very much.
Thank you very much.
Any questions to the officers or comments?
Councillor Barnes.
In sort of layman terms, could you explain what sort of extra evidence you would have
been looking for for the demolition being a requirement?
I think the applicants have said that the restoration of the existing building will
cost more than if it was demolished and rebuilt.
However, not sufficient evidence has been provided as to why the existing building cannot
be restored.
That's the kind of evidence that we would require so that we can then assess the feasibility
of whether extensions can be accommodated on the existing building or whether any part
of that existing building can actually be restored to maintain some elements of it.
But that hasn't been provided.
As I said earlier on, officers do support and appreciate the fact that the building
has deteriorated.
However, we just need that evidence so that we can properly assess what can be done and
what cannot be done.
And if that's been provided and it's evidence that the building cannot be restored for X,
Y and Z reasons, then obviously that will be taken into account by the officers.
Any further comments, questions?
No, then we'll go to a vote.
The officers are recommending refusal of this application.
All those in favour of refusal?
One.
And all those against refusal?
That's for the application.
Four or five?
So do we need to propose?
This has happened before.
If there's a recommendation to approve this application, first you should give reasons
just like you give reasons for refusal and you'd need to look at the reasons in the report
regarding refusal in that case.
But also, you can't make a final decision tonight.
It needs to be deferred.
But I think a discussion as regards those regions should be had and like you're minded
to approve.
I'm assuming that's going to be the case, yeah, unless there's another proposal, not
suggesting one.
And the final decision will be made at the next planning committee.
That's part of the constitution.
We cannot make a final decision tonight.
But you'd need to consider the reasons, planning reasons, that you're potentially going to
approve this application.
I think the benefits to the community outweigh the possible minor harm to – I think something
like that – the benefits to the community outweigh the minor harm this may cause.
Anything else?
It fits in with the local area.
It fits in – the character of the building fits in with the local area.
So sustainability of the building as well, yeah.
So can we have some of that in planning speak?
Yeah, so just to be – I think the main point is that the benefits outweigh, yeah.
And so the officers – there is a recommendation at the next committee from officers will be
the same.
The recommendation won't change.
That's their professional assessment.
But it will be reported back as regards the members' comments in relation to that and
probably leading with the benefit to the community.
So does somebody need to propose that then?
Shall I propose it?
Just to be clear, it's not a final decision this evening, partly for the members of the
public as regards that.
So just being clear on it.
You're proposing not refusing this application?
For the reasons stated.
We are minded to approve for the reasons mainly.
The seconder?
Councillor Conway is seconding.
Okay, so do we need to take another vote?
I'm not sure.
Is that quite clear?
Yeah.
I mean, I think it's good to have a vote on that.
It shows that members – that's your decision to defer it on that basis.
Okay, so a vote to defer on that basis for those reasons?
That's all?
So I hope that was understood by members of the audience.
We have not agreed with the officer's recommendation to refuse, but it needs to come back to the
next committee to have a chance for putting in conditions and so on, and maybe we'll vote
again on approval or not.
Very briefly, one of the reasons for this process is that objectors may want to speak
on the next occasion, because objectors sometimes see an officer's report that says refuse.
They step back in those circumstances, so it allows that to happen.
So there will be speakers, but maybe objectors on the next occasion may want to speak.
I'm not saying they should, but that allows for that possibility.
Yes.
[Inaudible]
I believe the speakers, the supporters have actually made their case, so I don't think
they'll be given a second chance to do so.
Just to be clear, it would be communicated to it, but I have a feeling they're allowed
to speak again, but I don't want to cut across anybody and be proved wrong, but I believe
because it is re-hearing, as far as I'm concerned.
Yes, exactly, thank you.
Pretending on leave, and wait for you all to leave, and then they're going to move on
to 27-8, Millway.
[Inaudible]
No, we haven't.
We haven't.
We haven't made the decision.
You've indicated your decision, and that's fine, but it has to come back.
It calls to the constitution, and it's only where it's refusal, and it says it here, and
my reading is that it allows for speakers to happen again, because, as I said, if objectives
are objective.
I think the objectives were the Barnet Society, and Gordon Massey's Residence Association.
So, there was no individual objective, I don't think.
Right, let's move on then, 27-8, Millway.
Yes, thank you, Chair, 27-8, Millway, description as per report, did the sort of thing yesterday,
and, as can be seen from the report, the application was called in by Councillor Simberg.
Just run through the slides quickly, if I may.
So we have it on the, yeah, south-west side of Millway, two-storey, seven-attached property,
backing onto the M1 there, belt of trees and so on site, and you can see from the photo
there between the site and the motorway.
I was looking down the garden there, so the host property is divided into flats, two flats,
I think 27-8 is the upstairs flat, we saw an existing out building there, and down the
bottom of the garden there is where the proposed building would go, and there we can see on
Block Plan, so in the bottom corner there, it was proposed to be measured 7.3 metres
wide, 6.3 metres deep, and, as we'll see in a minute, simple flat roof proposed building,
2.5 metres high there, to be used as a gym, home office, storage, and there's a small
W.C. in there, I think a shower room just in the top corner there.
Short and sweet, site is appropriate in context, similar to about buildings in the street,
not the character, what's not mentioned there are the trees, as we can see, trees are not
protected but clearly there's a relationship between the trees that started with motorway,
so there's a condition recommended that details of foundations of the proposed building have
to be submitted and approved by us before anything commences in order to preserve the
health and security of the trees so that the building doesn't adversely affect them and
may adversely affect, have an impact on the motorway, so a subject of that condition,
the normal ones, plus a condition required but it's used only ancillary to the host flat
and not for any other purpose or self-contained property, approval is recommended, thank you.
Thank you, we have one speaker, Roger Titchbourne. Thank you Mr Titchbourne, thank you, you've
been here before so you know the procedure, the microphone's on, you have three minutes
to speak and you'll be given a warning when you have one minute left.
Right okay, well first of all, I had a long sort of list of objections to this, I've been
away in France, I only managed to review the council's recommendations yesterday and on
reviewing them I was horrified to see that the ball's really been dropped here, there's
a major risk presented by the mitigations the council suggests, if you look at the issues,
the mitigations for damage to trees, what you didn't mention is in my garden, I live
at number 29, there is a mature copper beech tree that's over a hundred years old that
borders next to the property, I can show you a picture of it, you can see that there's
the fence there, it's right up against it. Now the other thing that hasn't been mentioned
anywhere in any of this, I advised Mr Colloth when he bought this, I actually signed as
a witness the deed of transfer, when you look at the map it just looks like his garden,
the area that this new building that is in effect a self-contained flat is sitting on
was not his property until earlier this year, like the bottom of my garden, it used to form
part of the British Railways London Midland Region freight depot for Mill Hill, it was
owned by British Rail I think until 1991, it was in operation as a freight depot from
1868 till 1962 as I believe. Now my understanding, and I have spoken to friends who are in the
industry, is that any British Rail freight depot, if you're going to start building
on it, requires a ground survey to see if there's any contaminants in there. I wasn't
too concerned about this when the original plan was to put slat and concrete just over
the top and build on top of it, but the council's recommendation is to use low impact screw
piles which drill down and as far as I'm concerned that puts me, Mr Colleth and all
of the other neighbours in the road at risk from potential contaminants in the ground.
Now the ground is very very sodden, the drainage there, one of my other objections, and you
can see that from this, is there's no proper drainage, putting a concrete plate on this
is going to make my garden completely waterlogged at all times, but by doing what the council
have mitigated that I only saw yesterday, what they're actually talking about is digging
up all sorts of potential contaminants that would have been there in the ground, buried
for a very long time. Now what I'm asking the council to do is to ask Mr Colleth to
get a full ground survey and review that, see whether this solution that the council
recommends is still appropriate and then I'll come back and give you all my other objections
to the scheme. I do not see how any way you can approve a plan that puts people at risk
of contaminants. Thank you. Have we got any questions Mr Stichbourne?
Councillor Colleth. Sorry, you said that until last year this
piece of land that the proposed building was to be built on didn't belong to that property.
That's correct. So how did he gain control of the property?
British Rail owned the plot of land, it was a goods yard from 1868 until 1963, 1964. When
the M1 motorway was built it effectively became an orphaned portion of land because you had
the railway on one side and the plot of land on the other, but all the contaminants and
whatever were in the ground. There's a whole strip that goes all the way up Millway, including
my gardens, all the way up that was owned by British Rail I think until 1991. They sold
it to Safelands that were a property development company. I bought mine off Safelands around
that time. Mr Colleth bought his this year of a chap who lives up the road who had sort
of bought all the parcels when the various residents wanted to sort of resolve the situation.
Now when he bought it he was informed that there was the risk of contamination and if
you look on the land registry deeds the sale price, and bear in mind this is a site big
enough to put a flat on, I mean if you look at that, that is a one bedroom flat, he bought
it for £500. So that gives you some idea of the situation. It's all on the land registry,
I'm not making this up, you can check all of this. I did discuss it with him, I assisted
him in buying it from the neighbour up the road and I was quite horrified when I saw
these plans, but I didn't object on the grounds of contamination originally because I thought
he was just going to put a concrete slab over the top that would keep the contaminants in.
What the council have done is they have asked him to use pile drives to mitigate the risk
to the trees. Now the trouble with that is by digging piles you bring up all the contaminants
and put everyone at risk so it's actually a far worse solution for people in the neighbourhood.
What you need to do, what the council should have done was gone back to him and said you
need to do a site survey to see if there's any contaminants from the British Rail depot
on the site. I believe there was a British oxygen chemical depot on the site in the 50s
and so there is a high potential, there was also a coal sole from the site, I believe
there's a high potential for risk. I mean there may be none, but you can only…
Thank you Mr Titchbourne. We'll ask the officers to comment on that, we'll take that up, we'll
take it up further, thank you. Any other questions? Councillor Roberts?
Thank you. I just wanted to ask, are you aware of any other properties along Millway where
they have a flat in the rear garden? It's interesting, if you look at the impacts
on character which is 5.3 of the council papers, it lists property, it's 23, 41, 57, 59 and
63 that all have some sort of outbuildings. None are of the scale of this that I know,
I know several of the neighbours, they don't have toilets and showers in the building which
this property has and none of them, and I went through this morning and checked, have
planning permission for buildings on the site. So they've either been put up with it or
they're within the permit of development rules. So I think what you've thought is misleading.
There are no flats there that you're aware of?
None that I'm aware of, I mean I don't go around snooping in my neighbour's gardens,
but… I'm not quite sure why you think the flat
is going to be built here. Just to be clear, the application's not
for a flat? I know it's not, that's the point I'm
making. It's got a toilet, it's got a shower in
it, it's got a space for an office, which to me is a commercial usage. I do wonder whether
there's going to be business rates paid on it. There's space for a gym, I mean if
you look at the… I don't think you have to have too much of
an imagination to see what that could be, it's a huge space. I mean if you look at
the space, 27A is the upstairs flat. He's already got an office building at the top
of the garden that he's using. It was divided into two, I measured it out, the original
garden for 27 was 10 metres, with the bit that he's bought from what used to be British
World, the bottom half of it is 17 metres, and that takes up over two thirds of that
space. I mean if you look at it, it's nearly the same, it's about 60% of the floor space
of his house, it's not a small shed and it butts up absolutely tightly against the
fences on both sides. We've had a look at it so we have seen what
it's going to be like, and I think offices will confirm that in other situations if this
was a one house it could be built as it is under permitted development. It's because
it's a flat applying for it, because it needs planning permission, so we'll ask
officers to confirm that. My issue at the moment though with this is
the fact that the Council's suggestions, I mean I had a load of other objections I
was going to raise, but this actually puts myself, my neighbours and especially the ones
that are down the hill, we're up the hill from number 27, all the ones from 25 downwards,
if there's any contaminants they're going to have that running in the garden with rain
wash off. As I said we'll ask the officers to comment
on that, thank you. Any further questions? Thank you very much Mr Titchburn, and then
we have either Mr Colleth or Dominic Deer. Hello, so you're Mr Colleth?
Is it on? Hi, I'm Dominic. You're Mr Colleth?
No, I'm Dominic Deer. So you're the agent or the applicant?
I am, I'm the agent. The agent, thank you very much. Again you
have three minutes to speak and you'll be given a warning when you have one minute left.
Sure, sure. I got, it's more of a story this one, but I got married seven months ago and
the only two things I argue with my wife about are that when we work from home and all she
does is play her music so loud I can't concentrate. I've bought her earpods, I've bought earmuffs,
none of it works, and the other thing we argue about is that I leave my gym equipment all
over the living room and it really upsets her. I've tried to stop but I can't.
My life and perhaps most importantly my marriage would definitely be fixed with an outbuilding
exactly like this and if I had the budget I would definitely buy one. I can't speak
for the applicant if he's building it for the same reasons I would but it seems like
quite a nice place to go to train, go and do some work, get out of your flat, so for
those reasons I think it's okay and with regards to contamination, I mean I've been to site
doesn't look very contaminated to me but I'd be happy for any condition that officers want
to attach, re- any surveys or anything like that, no problem at all. Thank you.
Thank you, any questions? Anything else to say? Okay, thank you very much. Then to go
back to the offices if you can just make some comments first of all on the effect of the
labour's beech tree and the need for a survey about contaminants. As far as we're aware
of this side of the table it's residential, the land's residential. I've no idea about
contamination on that side, I wouldn't have thought that there was any because it's all
bare as a garden. If there was any issue it would come up over time as people are digging
in the gardens. So I'm not aware of anything to that nature to be perfectly honest. With
regard to the presence of other similar buildings in the area, not having planning permission
as I should have said and I apologise is that this would in normal, if this were a single
family house, this building would not require planning permission, it would most certainly,
I can't prejudge it, but it will most certainly be of a size, it's certainly of a size. And
the use says that it would be permitted development, permitted development stuff which you can
do under the GPDO without requiring planning permission as long as you're a single family
dwelling house. This is one, the uses would generally be incidental to it and it's a perfectly
common form of development and we have no control over what happens with regard to foundations
or anything else with it. Obviously we don't, no we don't, other than its use. With regard
to impact on trees next door, as far as I'm aware there's no GPOs but certainly not being
referred to in the report and again the use of that type of foundation is designed to
prevent any impact on the trees so you'd be using them on the back and you'd also want
to use them on the foundations all the way round just because it makes common sense.
With regard to a survey in respect to contaminated land conditions for that, I would have thought
it's excessive for a building of this sort in my opinion, it's got to be reasonable,
relevant tests and planning etc. and for a building of this size I would have thought
that we will probably fail on that test and open ourselves to a successful challenge at
appeal. What else was there?
These were the main things that I picked up on. Any other questions to the officers? No,
then we'll go to a vote. The officers are recommending approval. All those in favour
of approval? That's all. That application is approved and we move on now to three applications
for electric charging points. The first one is 18 Hamilton Square.
Good evening councillors, officers and members of the public present here. This application
has a corresponding advertisement application. As such there will be just one presentation
subject to two votes. The application is related to an EV charging point with associated double
sided advertisement panels and this is a borough wide project by Barnet Council in association
with Jolt. It supports the rollout of the net zero infrastructure in line with the strategic
objectives of the development management plan. The site is to be located outside of 18 Hamilton
Square. This is a street image and as you can see highlighted over there and that's
where the proposal is to be situated. We have the site location plan. The red light highlights
the current proposal being considered. I would also like to draw your attention to the blue
highlights over there. Exactly opposite to the proposed site location is one which is
an EV charging unit which has already been approved and is on site already. Further up
along Osage Lane we have opposite 11 and 12 of the parade. We have another proposal for
the EV charging unit which is to be considered at today's committee. Here's the proposed
layout. As you can see the EV charging unit is going to be located along the first parking
bay within the street and an associated feeder pillar is going to be sited towards the center
of an existing grass verge at this corner. The plans and elevations show that it's a
standard specification across all the Jolt applications that we've got with a maximum
height of 2.65 to the proposed EV charging unit and the associated pillar would have
a maximum height of about 1.18 meters. It is to be borne in mind that this cabinet is
going to be permitted development. This is how the EV Jolt unit looks like. You can see
how it's in action over here. The proposed location would be exactly opposite the grey
facade of this shopping unit, somewhere along the diagonal point of this shopping parade.
You can see here that the footway is rather wide. Therefore we feel that this application
should be recommended for approval subject to conditions. You can see that the setting
benefits from a commercial character. The street is already in the use of parking of
vehicles and there would be no impact on the flow of traffic. It's a dual functionality
as you saw within the images earlier. Street furniture is very minimal. It's just bollards
and some lampposts and the dual functionality of the unit would reduce for the street clutter.
Highway authority has raised no objection to the proposed scheme. It's acceptable within
in terms of the TFL streetscape guidance, wherein a minimum bit of clear width of about
two metres is required and this would allow about 4.8 metres clear footway and it would
also follow the 0.45 metres set off from the curb. As I said, it supports the roll out
of the net zero infrastructure within Barnard and the application is recommended for approval
subject to conditions. Thank you. I should just say that item 9 and item 10 are both
to do with this particular unit. Item 10 is about advertising on the unit. Item 9 is about
installing it. We will vote on them separately, but we will discuss and consider them together.
So we have Rob White of the East Barnet Residence Association. Then we just have Patrick Thomas
the agent. Now, as I say, we could be considering both these together, but we'll put on them
separately. There's two other applications that you're also speaking on with a similar
setup. I don't know if you want to. Just on that point. Do them all separately. What I
will do is because of Hamden and Onslow in close proximity, that will just be one speech.
Perhaps if we look at those together. Then we will go on to the next one perhaps. Do
you want to make the presentation for Onslow then as well, as they are close together.
So if we hear the presentation for Onslow parade. Present that one. Yes, present that
one as well. Okay, similar to what Tina just went through with the Hamden Square one. The
proposal is for the installation of a jolt unit. It's an electrical vehicle charge point
with integral double sided LCD screens and associated electrical connection works and
one parking bay allocated specifically to electric vehicles only. So this is the site
location. And this is where the unit will be placed. It's the first parking bay that
will be against there. The feeder panel would be approximately four meters away from the
actual unit itself. As Tina mentioned earlier on, the requirement for disabled wheelchairs
to be passable on the public footpath is approximately two meters either way. And that clears it
so there's sufficient distance from the back edge of the building lines to the edge of
the jolt unit. And the actual joint unit will be placed in 450 millimeters from the curved
line. The existing footway has a total width of 5.624 millimeters. So that clears it sufficiently
to enable sufficient sort of thorough through on the footpath and accommodate the jolt unit.
The height of the jolt unit is, these are pretty much standard units and it's as per
the other one, 2.65 meters high. And the actual width of it is 1.16 meters in width. So the
unit has no reflective materials and it's gray finish and is sympathetic to the street
scene and it's considered acceptable and subject to conditions officers have recommended for
approval. When the members went out on site visit, we did note that the jolt unit that's
already been implemented on Brookside South, I believe this road is. It's similar, identical
to what's been installed there and that's going to be installed on this location here.
Again, this is the site location. More information about the existing layout and that's the proposed
layout. So this is where the actual unit is going and that's where the feeder panel is.
I have nothing further to add. All right, thank you. On this one, on the parade, we've
got Ethner Rous, who wish to speak. Are you Mr Rous? No? So it's just Patrick Thomas again.
You can address us on both of these then. There's four applications but I'm not going
to give you 12 minutes to speak. If you need more than three minutes, you maybe are slightly
more. I think it's about a three minute speech. Thank you, Chair. Good evening councillors
and everyone in attendance. My name is Patrick Thomas and I'm the planning manager for Jolt.
I'm here tonight to speak about our ongoing collaboration with Barnet Council to deliver
affordable on-street electric vehicle charging powered entirely by renewable energy. Since
my last presentation two weeks ago, we've installed another charger bringing the total
in the borough to 37. The applications before you this evening – that's Hamden and Onslow
– have undergone extensive pre-application discussions and have been carefully considered
in terms of their location and impact. We're pleased to see that the officers have recommended
them for approval and we appreciate that statutory consultees including highways and design have
raised no objections. I would like to thank the officers for their thorough report and
for working with us collaboratively throughout the process. Councillors are already familiar
with the many benefits of Jolt chargers, cleaner air, support for local businesses and contributing
toward Barnet carbon reduction targets. You may recall that in April of this year a charger
was installed at Onslow Parade after approval from Barnet Council. Since its installation
the charger has become one of the busiest in our network, demonstrating a clear demand
for more chargers in the area. One reason for its success is its unique position as
it's located roughly a mile from the nearest other Jolt charger. The average charge time
at Onslow Parade is 62 minutes, higher than the Jolt network average of 51 minutes, indicating
that users are spending more time in the area. We know that 80% of our customers shop and
spend locally while their cars are charging. This directly benefits local businesses driving
foot traffic and supporting the high street. To further support local businesses we will
offer free advertising on our chargers to independent shops in the area. We've seen
this initiative work successfully in Temple Fortune where local businesses reported an
increase in trade thanks to the free advertising. The locations of the new chargers have been
thoughtfully chosen. They're positioned at a busy junction where wide pavements and the
surrounding area allow the chargers to blend seamlessly into the street scene without detracting
from the local character. We believe that the applications before you tonight will promote
sustainability and green economic growth in Barnet. We hope that you support the officer's
recommendation for approval. Thank you for your time and I'd be happy to answer any
questions. Thank you. Any questions on these two, Councillor Roberts?
I just wanted to ask, out of interest really, is there a target for how many institutions
or installations, rather, there should be within, say, the Brunt Park Ward?
And there's not a target, but what I can say is that there won't be any more within this
immediate location. We believe that, as I said, we've got the capacity to have up to
three chargers. We wouldn't be looking for any more in the immediate area. I appreciate
that the wards are quite big. There is obviously a further charger that we're going to speak
about in a moment up on Churchill Road, which is actually in Brunt Park Ward, albeit is
it not in the ward? Oh, okay. That's good. Because that's over a mile away. So, yeah,
I think, to answer your question, I don't imagine any more chargers within the immediate
vicinity of Onslow Parade. But the demand for electric charging vehicles
is just in its nascence, isn't it? Just beginning. It is. I mean, we've got a target within the
borough and obviously what this does is fill a gap within our network that's currently
a gap in this area, hence why we want to provide more chargers.
Thank you. Any more questions? Okay, so we're going to
take these votes one at a time. First on 18 Hamden Square, the first one for installation
of the charging unit. The officer is recommending approval. All those in favour of approval?
That's all. So that application is approved. And the second one for 18 Hamden Square, which
is for the advertisement, for using it for advertising. All those in favour? That's all.
And then onto the next one, 11-12 Onslow Parade. Again, officers recommend approval of installing
the charging unit. All those in favour? That's all. That's approved. And have it used for
advertising. All those in favour? And that's all. So those four applications are approved.
And we move on now to the next one, which is similar to applications, one for installing
the unit and one for advertising at 468 Churchill Road.
Yes, thank you, Chair. Applications are there outside 468 Churchill Road. As before, a couple
of applications, one for full planning permission, we'll be able to add the consent. Description
as per report, the site was yesterday, so I'll just run through this quickly if I may.
So we've got the application site down there on the west side of Churchill Road, down the
bottom of the East Parnock Village end. Photo, right neck of woods there. It's just about
where you get a bit more detail in a minute. So we've got the proposed layout. So we've
got the feeder pillar, 0.38, 1m wide, 0.38D, 1.1m high, and that's on the boundary, proposed
to be on the boundary between 2A and 4, approximately in that position there. And the charge unit
itself, boundary between 4 and 6 in that position there. Same size as the others. I don't need
to go there, I don't think. I think you can't quite see it here, but on the plans, it shows
a gap of just over 2m between the main front wall of the buildings there and the side,
the front of the jolt, charging that position there. I think members have received correspondence
querying that distance in respect of little details in respect of the existing situation
that in roughly on the boundary there, not sure we got a photo of it. No, but members
saw the site yesterday and the shot fronts have got little features, little projections
where it comes out about 12cm I think from what's on the correspondence for a distance
of a width of about 30, 60cm, so it produces a narrow pinch point where the footway width
of that very small area is down from 2.009, I think it is on the plans, to 1.87 for a
very small pinch point. And this concern has been raised I think by an interested party
about that very matter in terms of public safety, etc. My opinion would be that for
a pinch point such as that, I don't believe that public safety access across the footway
would be prejudiced to any degree at all for a distance of that way, the site's level,
there's clear visibility, so I've got no more to add on that particular point in all
other aspects. Everything else is considered access, sorry that's not the site, that's
just a visual. Yeah, street furniture showing it, these are the sites here, so there are
the trees, that's looking at the site from across the road and we did just see a group
of three trees there, so the plan, so it's proposed to avoid those. Colleagues in trees
have seen it and they're satisfied there's no adverse impact on the health and future
of the trees. Highways are happy with it and approve the recommended terms of visual quality,
street scene, etc. It's an appropriate location, it's within a commercial area, it won't detract
from a character appearance of the area, there's no visual amenity aspects that applies to
both the planning side of this and the advertisement considerations of it. And regards to highway
safety, again highways have seen it, they have no issue with regard to the proposed
advertisement causing any issues with regard to safety. I've got nothing else to add,
approve and recommend it on both counts. Thank you. Thank you. We had Michael Lisvitsky who
wished to speak, I see that he's not here, but he's the one who had actually sent us
quite a lengthy email with lots of details about the distance there and so on, which
I'm sure we've all read. So again, Mr Thomas, if you'd like to come and make any comments
on this one. Good evening again councillors, thank you for allowing me to speak again.
Rather than reiterating the general benefits of Jolt, which I've shared with you previously,
I'd like to focus on the specifics of Church Hill Road. Currently, Jolt serves over two
and a half thousand customers who have completed more than 34,000 charges, most of them residing
right here in Barnet. However, Church Hill Road, located in the north-east of the borough,
remains underserved by charging infrastructure. The surrounding area, including streets such
as Capel Road, Jackson Road and Welbeck Road, are predominantly residential with many homes
reliant with on-street parking. It's worth noting that 84% of electric vehicles sold
in Barnet have been purchased by residents with driveways or off-street parking, leaving
those dependent on public charging at a disadvantage. Jolt's free and local charging options can
change this dynamic, helping accelerate the adoption of electric vehicles by making it
more affordable for those without private parking to transition to EVs. In addition
to promoting EV adoption, a reliable public charging network can reduce the number of
applications for front garden conversions into off-street parking, thus preserving the
green space and the character of our residential streets. To highlight the impact of our network,
I'd like to share the words of a Barnet resident and Jolt customer. The Jolt network is a game
changer for drivers who cannot set up at home due to a lack of driveway. It brings the running
costs much closer to home charging and overnight tariffs. I found the Jolt network 100% reliable
and the app is one of the easiest to use and most informative in the charging space. The
25 kilowatts per hour speed makes the chargers incredibly convenient. Now, just turning to
the specific location of this application, the site has been carefully selected in collaboration
with the council's arboricultural officer to ensure no harm is caused to the street
trees and I'm pleased to report that the arboricultural officer has raised no objections. The highways
officer has raised no concerns in relation to parking, including the potential remarking
of the space. That's going to be subject to a separate traffic management order and as
we know, Jolt customers spend in the local area when they are charging. In conclusion,
we believe that this application will help promote sustainability and green economic
growth in Barnet. We hope that you will support the officer's recommendation for approval.
Thank you for your time and I'd be happy to answer any questions.
Thank you. I just wondered if you could comment a little bit about the distance between, that's
left which may or may not be just under the two metres or…
Yes, of course. Just to note that, you know, this is just a very, the Jolt charger, the
actual width of the unit and this pinch point is very narrow. What I would say is that it
is TfL, it's guidance, it's not policy and therefore, you know, in some occasions,
and I think this would be one of them where it is just a very small, literally 20 centimetres
where that gap narrows below two metres, this is acceptable would be my response to that.
Any other questions? Councillor Roberts.
Do we know what's the average time spent on a Jolt recharger here in the borough?
Yes, 51 minutes is the average time charged.
Is there a maximum time to be spent there? No maximum I suppose, but when your car potentially
is fully charged that's obviously dependent on the battery and the conditions but, you
know, 51 minutes is in the region of 110 miles, it obviously depends what miles you're doing
but on average that would give you 110 miles worth of power.
Thank you. Have there been other instances where you've applied for your chargers
that have been of a similar distance from the charger to the building?
Yes, we have got similar instances in the borough where it's been on or around two
metres, obviously our preference is to exceed that where possible but there have been instances
where it has been marginal, shall we say, as is the case here.
Any other questions? No, thank you very much. Any questions to the officers or comments?
No, then we will go to a vote on these. First of all on the recharging units, the officers
are recommending approval, all those in favour? It's 5 and against 1. And for the useful advertising,
all those in favour? 5 and I'm not voting on that so I didn't approve the unit.
So that's those two applications for Churchill Road are approved. And that is the end of
tonight's business. Thank you very much.
Transcript
My name is Claire Farrier, I'm the chair of this committee and I'm a Councillor for East
Finchley Ward. Thank you all for attending the planning committee this evening. I will
ask the other members of the committee to introduce themselves, followed by the planning
officers, the legal officer and the governance officer. So, Councillor Callick, if you could
start.
Councillor Wyndle, Collindale South Ward.
Councillor Tim Roberts, Underhill Ward.
Councillor Richard Barnes, Barney Vale.
Councillor Joshua Conway, Hendon Ward.
Dino Oliveira, planning officer.
Heidi Oskar, planning manager.
Dave Prince, deputy planning manager.
Jimmy Walsh, legal advisor to the committee.
Georgina Wills, governance officer.
Thank you. We ask that you remain seated throughout the meeting unless you are called to the table
to address the committee. Please note that meetings may be recorded and broadcast as
allowed for in normal by the Council and by attending, either in person here or online,
you may be picked up on recordings. Council recordings are covered by our privacy notice
and that can be found on the website at www.barnet.gov.uk. So, the procedure is for each of the applications.
The planning officer will present the applications first of all, then each speaker will have
three minutes to address the committee and the governance officer will inform you when
there is one minute left. And we will then have the opportunity to ask questions of the
speakers and then of the officers and then to discuss and come to a decision. Following
the decisions, we will determine the application and I will announce the committee's decision.
We'll ask you when you come to the table to turn the microphone on and we'll explain how
to do that or show you when you come. There's a slight variation in the agenda. I think
that many of you are here for one particular item, the church hall. As I understand it,
there's quite a lot of interest in that item. So, we have moved that up to the agenda. That
will be the first full application that will be considered. No, it is to be the first.
We brought it up once. So, after the hearing of the minutes and other minor things, the
first item to be heard will be Marwood Court and then St. Mary's Church Hall and then Millway
on the order that is on here. Does that make sense? I hope everybody is here for those.
The first full item on the agenda is the minutes of the last meeting, which I hope everybody
has seen. We have three minutes. Councilor Greenspan, do you want to say? Oh, you're
proving it. Okay, I'll just sign the minutes. Abstinence of members, I think all the committee
are here today. There is no abstinence of members. Do any members have any declaration
of interests? No. The monetary officer has not granted any dispensations. I think the
addendum was just the minutes of the last meeting, was it? So, there is no addendum
about particular applications this evening. So, then we move straight on to the first
item, which is Marwood Court. Yes, thank you, chair. Marwood Court description
as per the report and as per the slide there. This application was reported to this committee
at its last meeting on the 26th of September and whilst committee resolved to agree the
recommendation, the decision has not been issued. In the meantime following the meeting,
it was found that the officer report contained inaccurate dimensions in respect of the height
of the building. This was due to an officer error in scaling the plans and I apologise
for that error and it happened to come back. It was not an error in the plans themselves,
I bear fine. It was considered appropriate to refer the application back to committee
to ensure that members take a decision based on the corrected dimensions. The original
report referred to an overall increase in height of 1.2 metres, when in fact it should
have referred to an increase of 2.3 metres and that has dealt with in the preamble to
the report. I will just run through the plans quickly if I may. That's a bit too quick.
There we have the application site at the end of Grecian Road. We have Wentworth Avenue
along there and to the south west it's Wentworth Park. It's an existing block of three storey
flats with flat roof as we'll see in a minute. We've got the area of the building there.
Street views, a better one showing the existing building subject site. Commercial building
next door, that's the back of the name of the property in Wentworth Avenue. Close look
of the boundary, residential properties to the rear there, some distance away which we'll
come to in a minute. Coming across the site looking down Grecian Road. Existing floor
plans, each floor contains two flats, so a total of six flats in the building at the
moment. There we've got the existing elevations from the side, simple building, flat roof
and there we can see a slight flooring level across the site. Existing and proposed site
plans, existing at the top, proposed, we can see the alterations there, provided a couple
of parking spaces in that location, bin stores at the front, bike stores there and that just
shows the new roof going on to accommodate the proposed two flats. Proposed elevations,
so as members will remember, flat roof at the moment, so putting a pitched roof on there
to accommodate two one bed flats. As we can see from the elevations, the roof pitches
away on all sides into the site itself, so it's pitching away from the site boundaries
which reduces the impact quite considerably on the neighbouring property in our opinion.
The remaining elevations from the side, as we can see from the other drawings, there's
dormer windows on all four sides. Floor plans, two one beds, there we've got the long section
through, so that's effectively what's there at the moment. Just a little behind that floor
level proposal, significant distance away, let's see if I can remember, I've got the
distances somewhere, yeah, just go back to the site plan again. So yeah, in regards to
the relationship to Wentworth Park, it's 32 metres to the boundary, 33 metres to the rear
elevation of the housing in Wentworth Avenue, which is to the north west, which is almost
33 metres away, 32 on that side, and from the front of the site to a property opposite,
that's a distance of 23 metres. So whilst the new roof would be clearly visible from
the neighbouring properties, there's no dispute in that. In our opinion, it wouldn't be overbearing
or visually obtrusive to such a degree, given those distances involved, over 30 metres to
neighbouring properties, and 23 to a property opposite. Of little, I've tried to report
that the proposed units are standard, parking's acceptable, bin store provision, and cycle
provision acceptable. In our opinion, it won't affect the character appearance of the building.
I say, given the distances involved in marketing, there is no adverse impact on my mates and
neighbours, and approval is recommended. Thank you.
Thank you. Before we go to the speakers, I'll just say that we did take a vote on this at
the last meeting, and approved this application at the last meeting. We're considering it
tonight as a new application, and we have taken into consideration all the information
that we have, the Office's report, the new information, and emails, and other information
that some of the objectors have provided. So please be assured that we are considering
this fully as a new application, with all the information that we have. So speakers
that we have are Mark Lester and Helen Simons. I don't know which order you would like to
come forward. Yeah, so one at a time. Thank you, Mark. If you could turn the microphone
on if you remember how to do that, it's a sort of face symbol. It's all right, we'll
come and show you. It's easier if we show you. Oh, okay. Okay, thank you. As I said,
you have three minutes to speak, and you'll be given a warning when you have one minute
left. Okay. Well, I'm speaking on behalf of myself and Kenji and Neil. Could you both
just stand up? I'm speaking on behalf of the three of us. We all object equally strongly
to this. Danny will go into the technicalities better than I can, because he's a surveyor,
but my main objection is the degree to which the building is overbearing. Mr Nyman said
it's not excessively overbearing, and that was one of the reasons he was recommending
approval. But he can't know that because he hasn't been in our gardens and he hasn't seen
the degree to which we're overlooked already. Well, we won't be overlooked in fairness because
of the frosted windows, but the building is overbearing. It will look horrible for us.
It will affect our sunlight, it will affect our perspective, it will affect our enjoyment
of the building, of our own properties, that is. I've reprinted off a couple of pictures
of my garden, which I'd like to allow you to have a view of, which I'll give you in
a second. And the other thing is that in one of the images that was posted up there, frankly,
showing a tree that was far taller than the existing building, which doesn't exist, again
misleading. You'll see the degree to which we're overlooked from these images. I could
have printed off images from Neil's garden or Kenji's garden, would have looked pretty
much the same. And as for it being in line with the suburban character of the street,
again, I feel that you haven't been given a fully comprehensive impression of the road,
because this is how it will look. This is the look immediately opposite the Edwardian
houses. They're very pretty, and having what is practically a skyscraper on the opposite
side is out of keeping with the suburban environment that it's in.
One minute remaining.
That's about all I wanted to say, actually, so I'm done in two minutes. My objection
is the overbearing degree, and I do want to say that, you know, if any of you lived in
my house, you wouldn't want an extra floor on that building. Nobody would. Councillor
Richard came to my house, said he wouldn't like it. My gardeners said he wouldn't like
it. Then everyone who's visited my house said they wouldn't like it. The same for Kenji
and Neil.
OK, thank you. Could we just point out exactly where your house and your neighbour's house
is?
Oh, you can't see on the plan.
You can see on the plan which houses you're talking about.
Oh, I'd have to come up, if I'm allowed.
Can you point out the numbers?
Do you want to go round?
Carefully, wonder-wise.
So my house is that one, and Neil's house is that one, and Kenji's house is that one.
OK, thank you. Take a seat then, we'll see if there's any other questions from members
of the committee.
How long has Marm Court been established there?
It was there when I moved in, so I know it's plus 20 years.
So it's been there for 40 years?
The existing three storeys of Marm Court have been there since the 1960s.
Sorry, the question is to the person at the table at the moment, rather than somebody
else to answer.
It's only Mr Lester who can answer your question.
Well, I was about to say anyway, I think it's a '60s or '70s building.
It's been tolerated for that long.
Well, I mean, I couldn't have it pulled down.
So if you said tolerated, if I heard you correctly.
Well, by the local residents, assuming the original building.
Well, I mean, we're not going to have a riot when it was erected.
Oh, OK.
Can the speaker just answer the questions, please, and not to anyone else?
Yeah, so when you're actually there, then we can actually address the committee.
Thank you.
OK.
Oh, so basically, that question will be answered by Mr Kaye in a moment.
Any further questions?
Thank you very much, Mark.
Thank you.
Next speaker.
Sorry, I didn't get your name, so if you could introduce yourself.
Mr Kaye, Daniel Kaye.
Daniel Kaye, yeah.
OK.
OK, Mr Kaye.
And I'm speaking on behalf of Mark and the two other residents, the neighbours in Wentworth
Avenue.
That's fine.
Thank you.
And again, you'll have three minutes to speak.
Thank you.
And you'll get the warning when you have a minute left.
Well, thank you very much.
Good evening, members.
Thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak on behalf of Mr Lester and the neighbours.
I did speak a couple of weeks ago.
I am in the business.
I'm at Charles's Way.
I'm a member of the Town and Country Planning Association.
I've worked on over 300 development projects.
Normally, I find myself supporting new development.
On this rare occasion, I find myself supporting an objection.
I think there's good grounds for this.
I think Barnet has an excellent track record of new homes delivery, and that does continue,
but I think this one is a mistake.
Why do I say this?
Because I make specific reference to some of your own policies, and I quote from your
supplementary planning document, Residential Design Guidance, October 2016, which states,
Proposals for new residential development should respond to the distinctive local building
forms and patterns of development and respect the scale, massing and height of the surrounding
physical context.
Furthermore, paragraph seven of Safeguarding Residential Amenity of the SPD also makes reference
to where overlooking or over or implicitly overbearing is a problem, especially in relation
to neighboring development, a higher degree of privacy will normally be required.
Now, I make reference to these specific two points, not because the existing three stories
hasn't been there since the 1960s, it clearly has, but an additional story will exacerbate
the problem and be contrary to your own policies.
What I think is disappointing in this instance is that there's no analysis to this effect
in the Planning Committee report.
Indeed, as Mr. Lester pointed out, the planning officer has not visited the site, did not
visit Mr. Lester's property, going to the garden, and therefore, at the very, very least,
I think it's incumbent upon the committee to either refuse the application or defer
to a site visit by planning experts, by the planning committee.
Sorry, planning officers, I should say, you've been to a site visit, but I don't think you've
been to Mr. Lester's property.
So, I would just reiterate, I think this is really important because objectively, in my
opinion, there hasn't been sufficient reference to your own policies, and I think this is
an omission in the Planning Committee report, and I say this having worked on hundreds of
planning projects and development projects, so I should be grateful if you can consider
this very, very carefully, and thank you for listening, and I'm happy to answer any questions.
Thank you.
Councillor Carrick.
Thank you.
You mentioned in your presentation that part of the 2016 guideline was that it was to safeguard
people's privacy.
Does this actual extended bit have any windows overlooking the properties?
It's not so much the windows, it's the scale and overbearing nature which impacts upon
the sense of privacy, and there's much case law on this that isn't just about windows,
it's the appearance of and the impression of and the experience that people will enjoy
or not enjoy as the case may be by the additional story, which is 2.3 metres as opposed to 1.2
as previously specified.
The other point I would make, which I think is relevant, is that it is my understanding
that there is no lift provided in the existing block.
There is no proposed lift to be provided in the existing block.
These two properties, these two one-bed homes on the top floor, fourth floor, would normally,
if this was a new build scheme, be non-compliant with building regulations, so if you give
planning approval, you're on the cusp of compliance with Part M of building regulation because
there is no lift being provided.
So I think this is an important point.
I know it's a moot point, there are sometimes interpretations about what is compliance with
Part M, but I think it's important this would certainly not satisfy what used to be referred
to as lifetime homes.
Thank you, any other questions?
I think that's it.
Thank you very much.
Thank you very much.
We now go back to the offices – sorry, I'm missing out on the agents again on behalf
of the applicant, Joe Henry.
Thank you, and again, just make sure you know the procedure, we have three minutes to speak.
Thank you, Chair and members.
My name is Joe Henry, I'm the agent acting for the application.
As you know, members, the proposal was approved by this committee on 26 September, however,
because the officer reports contained inaccurate figures on the height of the existing proposed
proposal being presented again to the committee.
I am grateful officers have confirmed the applicant's drawings are accurate, but were
just interpreted incorrectly by officers.
The application has been referred to this committee by Councillor Rich, because he was
concerned about the possible overlooking of Gardens and Wentworth Avenue.
That was the sole reason why he asked for this to go to committee.
I did email Councillor Rich and explain the windows facing the rear windows of properties
in Wentworth Avenue are proposed to be obscure glazed to ensure no overlooking.
He kindly responded and said he did discuss the matter of local residents, but they remain
of the view that an extra floor at Marwood Court impinges on their gardens.
As stated in your officer report, the two post windows facing the rear gardens of Wentworth
Avenue will be obscure glazed, meaning there will be no overlooking.
I would also draw your attention to the suggested planning condition number 10, which requires
these windows to be obscure glass only and shall be permanently retained as such thereafter.
In respect of the impact the proposal has on the character and appearance of the building
and locality, I would comment as follows.
The application site forms part of a street which has a very mixed character of residential
and commercial properties with varying designs, massing and heights.
The proposal proposed a mansard roof extension with a pitch roof and on an existing flat
roof.
The existing flat roof block style building has limited architectural merit.
Almost every other building with the road and indeed beyond in Wentworth Avenue has
a pitch roof.
The introduction of a pitch roof would significantly improve the design form of the existing building
overall, contributing positively to the character and appearance of the building and locality.
It is also important to note the proposal seeks to provide two additional dwellings
which will contribute to addressing the housing crisis, something on which the new Government
has prioritised as the top priority.
Thank you for listening, I'll be happy to answer any questions you may have, including
the building regulation matter that was raised by the speaking objector.
Thank you.
I mean if you'd like to comment on the building regulation, we're asking the officers as well,
but have you got any comments on that?
About the building regulation comment, it's not a building control requirement to provide
a lift unless there's a planning condition requiring one to be provided.
It's referred to as part 4(m)(2) of the building regulations, which is a discretionary part
of the building regulations which is only a requirement to be imposed if there is a
planning condition.
A planning condition can only be imposed if there is actually a prospect that a lift can
be provided and obviously it's impossible to provide a lift because you have to go through
other people's flats.
So in that case, that's why there's no need for a lift or none is required by either building
regs or planning.
Any other questions?
Councillor Roberts.
I just wanted to be clear about this issue about overlooking.
You're quite clear that there is no perspective of overlooking from this extension to this
building to the properties and Wentworth?
I mean if the officers could put up the relevant elevation facing the rear gardens of Wentworth
Avenue, it would be clear that the two additional windows, I think it's two, they're going to
be obscure glazed and fixed up and permanently retained as such.
Sorry?
It's on the pitch roof, yes.
The extra floor is at the pitch roof.
No, there will be no overlooking and I could hear from the last speaking object that they've
changed their tack somewhat because they realise there is no overlooking because I think they
accept that there will be no overlooking.
Thank you.
Any further questions?
No, thank you very much.
Thank you.
Yes, perhaps if we could have some further comments from the officers.
We heard that the additional story will be contrary to the council policies.
Mr Henry has already commented on the requirement for a lift, but I wonder if you could speak
about that.
With regard to the building regs, I've got nothing else to add to what Mr Henry said.
That's perfectly right and proper, there is that provision there, but it is discretionary.
If it's unreasonable and prejudice to the development, then it's not something which
we would pursue, particularly in new developments, but in this one where it's an extension to
an existing building, to try and put a loft in there would just render the development
unviable and reasonable and would just not be possible.
So if there is that relaxation, that discretion in the system which allows that, and that's
I think in London Plan as well.
Mr Kay also said that the additional story is contrary to council policies.
Well, council policies, is it appropriate in the character of the area, and as we've
got nothing to add really to the character of the area, as we can see it's not very clear
actually on the photos at that scale, but as we can see across there, we've got commercial
buildings, pitched roof, you could almost argue that the existing building is different
to the remaining character in that it's a three storey flat roof building, the majority
of buildings in this particular area have some form of pitched roof on it, so it's not
unreasonable to argue that it's actually improving it.
Is it improving it at the cost of the amenity of a neighboring residence?
In my opinion, no, because it's too far away, and if you like the damage is already done
by the vertical plane of the building at three storeys, the roof pitches in like that, so
whilst it is higher, it's going away from the sensitive edges of the building, so the
height is further away from the neighboring residence.
Will they see it?
Yes, of course, everybody's going to see it, it's going to be visible in the street scene,
I think as can be seen from photos that were circulated by other members of power, it's
clearly visible from the rear gardens and neighboring properties, but the fact it may
be visible doesn't mean it's harmful.
It's too far away, it's not overbearing, it's not obtrusive, you'll see it, but in my opinion
it's not going to cause harm, such as to want refusal and the potential loss of additional
two units to the housing stock.
Thank you, we'll consider that.
Finally, can you just confirm again that the drawings, what we were considering last time
by looking at the drawings and when we mentioned the site visit was accurate, it's just, it
was written down, what was written down as the measurements was...
Yeah, I can only apologise for whatever reason, got the scaling wrong, the drawings remain
the same, you know, we've got no issue with the accuracy of the drawings, it was probably
looking at, I don't know if it's 1-200, 1-200, but whatever, looking at the wrong one from
the sort of distance that it's out, it's almost double, so it's, the plans and relationships
are accurate, our members were seeing it, certainly have we seen it, it's fine, it's
fine, it was just a simple error which happens from time to time and fortunately we were
able to pick it up.
Thank you, any further questions or comments to make?
If not, we'll go straight to the vote.
The office's recommendation is for approval, all those in favour of approval?
That's all, so this application is approved, thank you.
And we will move on now to Church Hall St Mary in Barnet.
So this application relates to Church Hall of the Virgin Church of England Church in
Camlent Way, the proposal involves demolition and rebuild of the existing two-storey Church
Hall.
Just to clarify, this application has been called into committee by Councillor Weiser
on heritage grounds, so this is the site location plan and this is the Church Hall.
The site is within the green belt and also falls within Monck and Hadley Conservation
Area, it's in an area of archaeological significance and also covered by Article 4 direction.
The common opposite is site of importance for nature conservation, so the Church Hall
is locally listed and is set within the grounds of Grade 2 star listed parish church and it
forms part and parcel of the Grade 2 star listed church curtilage.
There is no boundary as such between the two sites.
So the extensions, previous extensions have been granted but applicants state that the
building for foundations are not sound enough for the restoration of the original building
and therefore cannot implement the extensions granted last year.
So the building footprint, I don't know if you can see this but the red line denotes
the existing building line, so the building footprint is approximately 21.6 metres in
width, 7.2 metres in depth and 4.7 metres to eaves height and 7.7 metres ridge height.
The replacement building would be one metre wider which is at this point here and it will
be set in one metre in from this church boundary.
So just to note that the existing ridge height and the east side will remain as per the existing.
The replacement also proposes single storey element to the south side which is on this
side here and a two-storey element to the north side.
So as I said the rear building, sorry, the actual relocation of the new building would
be cited one metre from where the actual existing building is at the present time, so it would
be a metre in from this boundary here.
So the increase in volume represents 26.6 cubic metres over the existing volume.
Heritage officers have objected on the grounds that there will be substantial harm to a non-designated
heritage asset and significant harm to the setting of a grade two star listed building
and harm to the character and appearance of the monk and had the conservation area.
Heritage officers also comments that church house makes a good contribution to the setting
of the curtainage of the listed church building.
Also the proposal adds significant number of windows in the west elevation along through
here.
So these are the existing site photos, that's the internal and this is the rear elevation.
Again more photographs of the site, again more photos of the site.
So this is the existing plans as you will see at ground floor level there's only very
small windows facing the churchyard and at first floor there's only one window at first
floor level.
These are the existing elevations, you can see the windows are fairly small and there
wouldn't be any overlooking of the churchyard, basically they're very small windows.
So in the proposed elevations and sections number of windows have been added to the rear
elevation which faces onto the church building and that faces onto the churchyard.
So the heritage officers have said that because of the proposal adds significant number of
windows in the west elevation facing towards the churchyard and the church building that
this would have an impact on the setting of the church, the grade two star-listed church
buildings.
As you've seen from the existing there are limited windows in that elevation meaning
that large degree of privacy was afforded to the burial ground and to those mourning
their deceased.
The additional windows which is five at ground level and six at first floor level would intrude
on those people that respects to their deceased with the proposed open boundary rails that
would allow views directly through to the churchyard and that is the significant harm
that the heritage officers have identified with regards to this application.
Whilst the officers are all in support of the ultimate objective of the church and the
restoration of the church hall and facilities fit for the community's needs, however justification
has not been made to demonstrate that the existing building could not be stabilised
and repaired enabling it to be extended and refitted for modern use.
In the absence of an appraisal assessing the feasibility of the cost of the remedial work
as opposed to rebuild, the case for demolition has not been made by the applicants.
So the application has been recommended for refusal on two grounds.
The first one is demolition of the existing and its replacement would result in substantial
harm to non-designated heritage asset which is a locally listed church hall building and
a high level of harm to the setting of a grade two star listed building failing to preserve
and or enhance the character and appearance of the Monk and Huddie conservation area contrary
to policies.
Second reason is on the grounds that the replacement building would by reason of its size, bulk,
lighting and massing appear material larger than the existing building and the proposal
would represent an inappropriate development within the green belt so no case for very
special circumstances has been demonstrated to outweigh the harm.
I have nothing further to add, we do have speakers.
Thank you, Councillor Emma Whistle.
Thank you Emma, I think you know the procedure, you have three minutes to speak if you've
given a warning when you have one minute left.
Thank you Chair.
I'm not going to keep the committee long with my remarks, mainly the two things I'd like
to focus on are the loss of a heritage building.
The reality is that the community and the area has pretty much lost this building now.
The cost of rebuilding and restoration rather than knocking it down and rebuilding a building
from scratch is so astronomically higher than what has already been raised over a number
of years by the community that it will not happen and it means that the building will
continue to deteriorate in space, attract antisocial behaviour probably and will be
lost to the community in any event.
This is the best opportunity that we have to replace this building in an in-kind manner
that will fit with the local area and will be of benefit to the community.
So when we talk about losing a heritage building, this building has already been lost due to
the condition that it currently is in and in terms of the harm to the area, the current
building I believe has a modern lean-to on it, which will obviously come down with the
building and mean that the building can be replaced in a more in-kind manner.
I'm unsure how harm is caused by being able to look from the church hall onto the Grade
II listed church and enjoy that outlook.
In fact I think it enhances the area and enhances the ability to enjoy the beauty of this church,
which is part of the community and a historic part of this community.
The building will be the new building, a community asset which has much local support as you've
seen from the papers, 32 letters of support for the building and many people here tonight
have come in support of it.
As a local councillor I'm fully in support of this project to rebuild the building.
I've had no one contact me as a local councillor, requesting that I oppose this application
and all communication that I have received has been in favour of this application.
Thank you.
Questions, Councillor Callick?
Can you give us an indication of the differential between restoration and a complete new rebuild?
I know it's impossible to give an exact figure but some sort of estimation.
I believe that the next speaker can address that.
I understand it is significantly higher.
The community has raised about 700,000 including still money which will just about cover maybe
a bit more if needed.
I'm looking at the fundraising chair to cover the rebuild and I understand that the cost
of restoration is approaching double that but I'll allow the next speaker to address
that in more detail.
Yes, I think you managed to get quite a sizeable funding from the area committee towards refurbishing
if you like, towards putting the new extensions on which planning permission was given for.
So as that was quite recent, I'm wondering why now it's come to demolition.
To be clear, the application for still funding was on the basis of this current planning
application.
The application for still funding was heard I think the day after the public consultation
on this planning application closed.
So it was on the premise of demolition.
Other questions?
We don't think that's where we're at.
Just want to be quiet.
If a new building is constructed on that site, would the range of activities that take place
must be able to be extended to the benefit of the local community?
I understand it would be.
I think also that obviously the building part of the increase in space is a health and safety
consideration allowing for disabled access which this building would not have allowed
for in its original design and allow more spaces so more groups can use the building
at the same time with a mezzanine level and other such improvements that will allow more
people to use the building and expand its use by the community.
Any further questions?
Thank you very much, Emma.
And then we have Alan Cox who is the App and Contendo agent.
If you can switch the microphone on.
That's it.
Now you have three minutes.
Is that okay?
Yes.
You have three minutes to speak.
They give a warning when you have one minute left.
Yes.
Good evening, chair and members.
My name is Alan Cox and I'm the agent action on behalf of the church.
Obviously thank you for allowing me to address you this evening on what has become an important
issue for the church and wider community over the last six years.
Despite the case officer's report before you stating that we did not engage in pre-app
advice, we did receive a pre-app report on the 14th of September 2018 when this whole
journey began.
The case officer's report also states that insufficient evidence has been submitted to
justify that the building is beyond economic repair.
Structural engineers have been monitoring the building since 2007 and commissioned five
metre deep boreholes to be taken to establish the reason for the continual movement of the
building.
This established that the building was constructed on made up ground down to a depth of 1.5 metres
along the main front wall which was causing the building to break its back.
The borehole report was submitted with the application as part of the structural engineers
report.
I would therefore like to briefly address the planning issues and the two recommendations
or two recommended reasons for refusal.
Firstly, materially larger.
The increase in volume is 26.6% against the guidelines in the SPD of 25%.
This policy is a guideline only and we recently received an appeal decision within the Hadley
area where an increase of 27% was accepted and the appeal upheld.
In her decision, the inspector stated the following.
It is clear that the SPD does not intend the 25% guidelines to be implied in a rigid way
and in my view, the additional 2% increase would in principle lie within a reasonable
range of tolerance.
The 1.6% increase is primarily to cover current disability space standard requirements for
new communal buildings including part M of the building regulations to allow access for
all.
The existing building cannot be adapted to meet these requirements.
Secondly, the loss of a locally listed building.
A highly qualified heritage consultant was appointed to advise the church on the proposals.
The church also consulted English heritage which visited the building.
Both came to the same conclusions which were and I quote, the locally listed church house
is considered to possess low architectural and artistic interest and low historic interest.
The heritage values of the building has been severely compromised by substantial and invasive
alterations made throughout its lifetime which have removed all evidence of any 18th and
19th century uses as a stable or residential dwelling.
Any perceived harm from the loss of the building is considered to be outweighed by the substantial
public benefits offered by the scheme, principally in a re-establishment of a high quality, contextually
designed and fully accessible community facility.
I've got one more paragraph.
English heritage also concluded the building lacks sufficient historic fabric to meet special
interest and it has lost all trace of its original plan form and interior with crude
interventions into the fabric and the case for listing has not been fulfilled.
Thank you, chair and members.
Thank you.
Any questions?
Councillor Roberts.
Thank you, chair.
I just want to check if the current situation with this building is downgrading itself,
I guess, by the look of it.
There are local activities that would make use of that building if there was an appropriate
building there that at the present time have nowhere else to go, is that the case?
Yes, Councillor Roberts, that's actually correct.
Obviously, the building's been closed due to the dangerous structure of the building
which you probably noticed during your site visit.
It's been closed since June 23 so none of the users of that building have been able
to operate anywhere else.
Cricket's been played on the common for 200 years.
The cricketers have got no place to change or the put-in-ex old people society can't
meet there.
Guides, brownies, can't meet there.
There are so many communities that cannot use the building and it's a shame it's going
to be lost to the community if something's not done.
Councillor Barnes.
Good evening.
Could you tell us a little bit more about how much you've looked into the possibility
of restoring the existing building, the cost of that, particularly with the approved extensions
that had been given as well?
Yes, of course.
When we received the previous permission, which is for our renovations and extensions,
the church instructed us to carry out a full structural design, a full working drawings
and a full specification of works and with those drawings and specifications we went
out to tender.
We was expecting budgets to come in around the 700, 750 but they were coming in over
a million and even then the contractors said that they couldn't guarantee that the work
they were carrying out, it wouldn't go up.
There was such a large contingency because trying to support the existing structure while
building a new structure in it, they couldn't guarantee that even that with the subsoil
that it's on and all the main ground wouldn't continue to move.
Hence, we took the quite drastic decision to actually apply for a rebuild despite the
fact that we knew that the planning authority wouldn't support it.
Thank you.
Any further questions?
Another one, if I may, the existing building is quite an attractive building even if it
is falling down.
Will you be able to reuse any of the material in the existing building for a new building?
Yes.
I don't know if you've got the CGI image that we submitted with it.
I didn't see that come up when he was making the presentation.
There was a full photorealistic CGI submitted with it.
No, it's not there.
Sorry, but anyway, irrespective of that, yes, on the CGI drawing, we intend to recycle as
much of the brickwork and tiles.
So we don't intend to put them in a skip, they'll all be stacked, set aside, damaged
ones replaced.
But if you look at the existing photographs, the existing elevations have been, there's
a whole mismatch of different brick types where it's been infilled, where it's cracked
and they've pointed it back in.
All the windows, sash windows are out of skew, the arches have gone.
So there's a limited amount that we can actually recycle, but we will do our best to take whatever
we can.
There's also a condition to say that any new material should be submitted and approved
by the local authority prior to commencement.
So we'll get as near as much as possible to what's there at the moment.
Any further questions?
Thank you very much.
Thank you very much.
Any questions to the officers or comments?
Councillor Barnes.
In sort of layman terms, could you explain what sort of extra evidence you would have
been looking for for the demolition being a requirement?
I think the applicants have said that the restoration of the existing building will
cost more than if it was demolished and rebuilt.
However, not sufficient evidence has been provided as to why the existing building cannot
be restored.
That's the kind of evidence that we would require so that we can then assess the feasibility
of whether extensions can be accommodated on the existing building or whether any part
of that existing building can actually be restored to maintain some elements of it.
But that hasn't been provided.
As I said earlier on, officers do support and appreciate the fact that the building
has deteriorated.
However, we just need that evidence so that we can properly assess what can be done and
what cannot be done.
And if that's been provided and it's evidence that the building cannot be restored for X,
Y and Z reasons, then obviously that will be taken into account by the officers.
Any further comments, questions?
No, then we'll go to a vote.
The officers are recommending refusal of this application.
All those in favour of refusal?
One.
And all those against refusal?
That's for the application.
Four or five?
So do we need to propose?
This has happened before.
If there's a recommendation to approve this application, first you should give reasons
just like you give reasons for refusal and you'd need to look at the reasons in the report
regarding refusal in that case.
But also, you can't make a final decision tonight.
It needs to be deferred.
But I think a discussion as regards those regions should be had and like you're minded
to approve.
I'm assuming that's going to be the case, yeah, unless there's another proposal, not
suggesting one.
And the final decision will be made at the next planning committee.
That's part of the constitution.
We cannot make a final decision tonight.
But you'd need to consider the reasons, planning reasons, that you're potentially going to
approve this application.
I think the benefits to the community outweigh the possible minor harm to – I think something
like that – the benefits to the community outweigh the minor harm this may cause.
Anything else?
It fits in with the local area.
It fits in – the character of the building fits in with the local area.
So sustainability of the building as well, yeah.
So can we have some of that in planning speak?
Yeah, so just to be – I think the main point is that the benefits outweigh, yeah.
And so the officers – there is a recommendation at the next committee from officers will be
the same.
The recommendation won't change.
That's their professional assessment.
But it will be reported back as regards the members' comments in relation to that and
probably leading with the benefit to the community.
So does somebody need to propose that then?
Shall I propose it?
Just to be clear, it's not a final decision this evening, partly for the members of the
public as regards that.
So just being clear on it.
You're proposing not refusing this application?
For the reasons stated.
We are minded to approve for the reasons mainly.
The seconder?
Councillor Conway is seconding.
Okay, so do we need to take another vote?
I'm not sure.
Is that quite clear?
Yeah.
I mean, I think it's good to have a vote on that.
It shows that members – that's your decision to defer it on that basis.
Okay, so a vote to defer on that basis for those reasons?
That's all?
So I hope that was understood by members of the audience.
We have not agreed with the officer's recommendation to refuse, but it needs to come back to the
next committee to have a chance for putting in conditions and so on, and maybe we'll vote
again on approval or not.
Very briefly, one of the reasons for this process is that objectors may want to speak
on the next occasion, because objectors sometimes see an officer's report that says refuse.
They step back in those circumstances, so it allows that to happen.
So there will be speakers, but maybe objectors on the next occasion may want to speak.
I'm not saying they should, but that allows for that possibility.
Yes.
[Inaudible]
I believe the speakers, the supporters have actually made their case, so I don't think
they'll be given a second chance to do so.
Just to be clear, it would be communicated to it, but I have a feeling they're allowed
to speak again, but I don't want to cut across anybody and be proved wrong, but I believe
because it is re-hearing, as far as I'm concerned.
Yes, exactly, thank you.
Pretending on leave, and wait for you all to leave, and then they're going to move on
to 27-8, Millway.
[Inaudible]
No, we haven't.
We haven't.
We haven't made the decision.
You've indicated your decision, and that's fine, but it has to come back.
It calls to the constitution, and it's only where it's refusal, and it says it here, and
my reading is that it allows for speakers to happen again, because, as I said, if objectives
are objective.
I think the objectives were the Barnet Society, and Gordon Massey's Residence Association.
So, there was no individual objective, I don't think.
Right, let's move on then, 27-8, Millway.
Yes, thank you, Chair, 27-8, Millway, description as per report, did the sort of thing yesterday,
and, as can be seen from the report, the application was called in by Councillor Simberg.
Just run through the slides quickly, if I may.
So we have it on the, yeah, south-west side of Millway, two-storey, seven-attached property,
backing onto the M1 there, belt of trees and so on site, and you can see from the photo
there between the site and the motorway.
I was looking down the garden there, so the host property is divided into flats, two flats,
I think 27-8 is the upstairs flat, we saw an existing out building there, and down the
bottom of the garden there is where the proposed building would go, and there we can see on
Block Plan, so in the bottom corner there, it was proposed to be measured 7.3 metres
wide, 6.3 metres deep, and, as we'll see in a minute, simple flat roof proposed building,
2.5 metres high there, to be used as a gym, home office, storage, and there's a small
W.C. in there, I think a shower room just in the top corner there.
Short and sweet, site is appropriate in context, similar to about buildings in the street,
not the character, what's not mentioned there are the trees, as we can see, trees are not
protected but clearly there's a relationship between the trees that started with motorway,
so there's a condition recommended that details of foundations of the proposed building have
to be submitted and approved by us before anything commences in order to preserve the
health and security of the trees so that the building doesn't adversely affect them and
may adversely affect, have an impact on the motorway, so a subject of that condition,
the normal ones, plus a condition required but it's used only ancillary to the host flat
and not for any other purpose or self-contained property, approval is recommended, thank you.
Thank you, we have one speaker, Roger Titchbourne. Thank you Mr Titchbourne, thank you, you've
been here before so you know the procedure, the microphone's on, you have three minutes
to speak and you'll be given a warning when you have one minute left.
Right okay, well first of all, I had a long sort of list of objections to this, I've been
away in France, I only managed to review the council's recommendations yesterday and on
reviewing them I was horrified to see that the ball's really been dropped here, there's
a major risk presented by the mitigations the council suggests, if you look at the issues,
the mitigations for damage to trees, what you didn't mention is in my garden, I live
at number 29, there is a mature copper beech tree that's over a hundred years old that
borders next to the property, I can show you a picture of it, you can see that there's
the fence there, it's right up against it. Now the other thing that hasn't been mentioned
anywhere in any of this, I advised Mr Colloth when he bought this, I actually signed as
a witness the deed of transfer, when you look at the map it just looks like his garden,
the area that this new building that is in effect a self-contained flat is sitting on
was not his property until earlier this year, like the bottom of my garden, it used to form
part of the British Railways London Midland Region freight depot for Mill Hill, it was
owned by British Rail I think until 1991, it was in operation as a freight depot from
1868 till 1962 as I believe. Now my understanding, and I have spoken to friends who are in the
industry, is that any British Rail freight depot, if you're going to start building
on it, requires a ground survey to see if there's any contaminants in there. I wasn't
too concerned about this when the original plan was to put slat and concrete just over
the top and build on top of it, but the council's recommendation is to use low impact screw
piles which drill down and as far as I'm concerned that puts me, Mr Colleth and all
of the other neighbours in the road at risk from potential contaminants in the ground.
Now the ground is very very sodden, the drainage there, one of my other objections, and you
can see that from this, is there's no proper drainage, putting a concrete plate on this
is going to make my garden completely waterlogged at all times, but by doing what the council
have mitigated that I only saw yesterday, what they're actually talking about is digging
up all sorts of potential contaminants that would have been there in the ground, buried
for a very long time. Now what I'm asking the council to do is to ask Mr Colleth to
get a full ground survey and review that, see whether this solution that the council
recommends is still appropriate and then I'll come back and give you all my other objections
to the scheme. I do not see how any way you can approve a plan that puts people at risk
of contaminants. Thank you. Have we got any questions Mr Stichbourne?
Councillor Colleth. Sorry, you said that until last year this
piece of land that the proposed building was to be built on didn't belong to that property.
That's correct. So how did he gain control of the property?
British Rail owned the plot of land, it was a goods yard from 1868 until 1963, 1964. When
the M1 motorway was built it effectively became an orphaned portion of land because you had
the railway on one side and the plot of land on the other, but all the contaminants and
whatever were in the ground. There's a whole strip that goes all the way up Millway, including
my gardens, all the way up that was owned by British Rail I think until 1991. They sold
it to Safelands that were a property development company. I bought mine off Safelands around
that time. Mr Colleth bought his this year of a chap who lives up the road who had sort
of bought all the parcels when the various residents wanted to sort of resolve the situation.
Now when he bought it he was informed that there was the risk of contamination and if
you look on the land registry deeds the sale price, and bear in mind this is a site big
enough to put a flat on, I mean if you look at that, that is a one bedroom flat, he bought
it for £500. So that gives you some idea of the situation. It's all on the land registry,
I'm not making this up, you can check all of this. I did discuss it with him, I assisted
him in buying it from the neighbour up the road and I was quite horrified when I saw
these plans, but I didn't object on the grounds of contamination originally because I thought
he was just going to put a concrete slab over the top that would keep the contaminants in.
What the council have done is they have asked him to use pile drives to mitigate the risk
to the trees. Now the trouble with that is by digging piles you bring up all the contaminants
and put everyone at risk so it's actually a far worse solution for people in the neighbourhood.
What you need to do, what the council should have done was gone back to him and said you
need to do a site survey to see if there's any contaminants from the British Rail depot
on the site. I believe there was a British oxygen chemical depot on the site in the 50s
and so there is a high potential, there was also a coal sole from the site, I believe
there's a high potential for risk. I mean there may be none, but you can only…
Thank you Mr Titchbourne. We'll ask the officers to comment on that, we'll take that up, we'll
take it up further, thank you. Any other questions? Councillor Roberts?
Thank you. I just wanted to ask, are you aware of any other properties along Millway where
they have a flat in the rear garden? It's interesting, if you look at the impacts
on character which is 5.3 of the council papers, it lists property, it's 23, 41, 57, 59 and
63 that all have some sort of outbuildings. None are of the scale of this that I know,
I know several of the neighbours, they don't have toilets and showers in the building which
this property has and none of them, and I went through this morning and checked, have
planning permission for buildings on the site. So they've either been put up with it or
they're within the permit of development rules. So I think what you've thought is misleading.
There are no flats there that you're aware of?
None that I'm aware of, I mean I don't go around snooping in my neighbour's gardens,
but… I'm not quite sure why you think the flat
is going to be built here. Just to be clear, the application's not
for a flat? I know it's not, that's the point I'm
making. It's got a toilet, it's got a shower in
it, it's got a space for an office, which to me is a commercial usage. I do wonder whether
there's going to be business rates paid on it. There's space for a gym, I mean if
you look at the… I don't think you have to have too much of
an imagination to see what that could be, it's a huge space. I mean if you look at
the space, 27A is the upstairs flat. He's already got an office building at the top
of the garden that he's using. It was divided into two, I measured it out, the original
garden for 27 was 10 metres, with the bit that he's bought from what used to be British
World, the bottom half of it is 17 metres, and that takes up over two thirds of that
space. I mean if you look at it, it's nearly the same, it's about 60% of the floor space
of his house, it's not a small shed and it butts up absolutely tightly against the
fences on both sides. We've had a look at it so we have seen what
it's going to be like, and I think offices will confirm that in other situations if this
was a one house it could be built as it is under permitted development. It's because
it's a flat applying for it, because it needs planning permission, so we'll ask
officers to confirm that. My issue at the moment though with this is
the fact that the Council's suggestions, I mean I had a load of other objections I
was going to raise, but this actually puts myself, my neighbours and especially the ones
that are down the hill, we're up the hill from number 27, all the ones from 25 downwards,
if there's any contaminants they're going to have that running in the garden with rain
wash off. As I said we'll ask the officers to comment
on that, thank you. Any further questions? Thank you very much Mr Titchburn, and then
we have either Mr Colleth or Dominic Deer. Hello, so you're Mr Colleth?
Is it on? Hi, I'm Dominic. You're Mr Colleth?
No, I'm Dominic Deer. So you're the agent or the applicant?
I am, I'm the agent. The agent, thank you very much. Again you
have three minutes to speak and you'll be given a warning when you have one minute left.
Sure, sure. I got, it's more of a story this one, but I got married seven months ago and
the only two things I argue with my wife about are that when we work from home and all she
does is play her music so loud I can't concentrate. I've bought her earpods, I've bought earmuffs,
none of it works, and the other thing we argue about is that I leave my gym equipment all
over the living room and it really upsets her. I've tried to stop but I can't.
My life and perhaps most importantly my marriage would definitely be fixed with an outbuilding
exactly like this and if I had the budget I would definitely buy one. I can't speak
for the applicant if he's building it for the same reasons I would but it seems like
quite a nice place to go to train, go and do some work, get out of your flat, so for
those reasons I think it's okay and with regards to contamination, I mean I've been to site
doesn't look very contaminated to me but I'd be happy for any condition that officers want
to attach, re- any surveys or anything like that, no problem at all. Thank you.
Thank you, any questions? Anything else to say? Okay, thank you very much. Then to go
back to the offices if you can just make some comments first of all on the effect of the
labour's beech tree and the need for a survey about contaminants. As far as we're aware
of this side of the table it's residential, the land's residential. I've no idea about
contamination on that side, I wouldn't have thought that there was any because it's all
bare as a garden. If there was any issue it would come up over time as people are digging
in the gardens. So I'm not aware of anything to that nature to be perfectly honest. With
regard to the presence of other similar buildings in the area, not having planning permission
as I should have said and I apologise is that this would in normal, if this were a single
family house, this building would not require planning permission, it would most certainly,
I can't prejudge it, but it will most certainly be of a size, it's certainly of a size. And
the use says that it would be permitted development, permitted development stuff which you can
do under the GPDO without requiring planning permission as long as you're a single family
dwelling house. This is one, the uses would generally be incidental to it and it's a perfectly
common form of development and we have no control over what happens with regard to foundations
or anything else with it. Obviously we don't, no we don't, other than its use. With regard
to impact on trees next door, as far as I'm aware there's no GPOs but certainly not being
referred to in the report and again the use of that type of foundation is designed to
prevent any impact on the trees so you'd be using them on the back and you'd also want
to use them on the foundations all the way round just because it makes common sense.
With regard to a survey in respect to contaminated land conditions for that, I would have thought
it's excessive for a building of this sort in my opinion, it's got to be reasonable,
relevant tests and planning etc. and for a building of this size I would have thought
that we will probably fail on that test and open ourselves to a successful challenge at
appeal. What else was there?
These were the main things that I picked up on. Any other questions to the officers? No,
then we'll go to a vote. The officers are recommending approval. All those in favour
of approval? That's all. That application is approved and we move on now to three applications
for electric charging points. The first one is 18 Hamilton Square.
Good evening councillors, officers and members of the public present here. This application
has a corresponding advertisement application. As such there will be just one presentation
subject to two votes. The application is related to an EV charging point with associated double
sided advertisement panels and this is a borough wide project by Barnet Council in association
with Jolt. It supports the rollout of the net zero infrastructure in line with the strategic
objectives of the development management plan. The site is to be located outside of 18 Hamilton
Square. This is a street image and as you can see highlighted over there and that's
where the proposal is to be situated. We have the site location plan. The red light highlights
the current proposal being considered. I would also like to draw your attention to the blue
highlights over there. Exactly opposite to the proposed site location is one which is
an EV charging unit which has already been approved and is on site already. Further up
along Osage Lane we have opposite 11 and 12 of the parade. We have another proposal for
the EV charging unit which is to be considered at today's committee. Here's the proposed
layout. As you can see the EV charging unit is going to be located along the first parking
bay within the street and an associated feeder pillar is going to be sited towards the center
of an existing grass verge at this corner. The plans and elevations show that it's a
standard specification across all the Jolt applications that we've got with a maximum
height of 2.65 to the proposed EV charging unit and the associated pillar would have
a maximum height of about 1.18 meters. It is to be borne in mind that this cabinet is
going to be permitted development. This is how the EV Jolt unit looks like. You can see
how it's in action over here. The proposed location would be exactly opposite the grey
facade of this shopping unit, somewhere along the diagonal point of this shopping parade.
You can see here that the footway is rather wide. Therefore we feel that this application
should be recommended for approval subject to conditions. You can see that the setting
benefits from a commercial character. The street is already in the use of parking of
vehicles and there would be no impact on the flow of traffic. It's a dual functionality
as you saw within the images earlier. Street furniture is very minimal. It's just bollards
and some lampposts and the dual functionality of the unit would reduce for the street clutter.
Highway authority has raised no objection to the proposed scheme. It's acceptable within
in terms of the TFL streetscape guidance, wherein a minimum bit of clear width of about
two metres is required and this would allow about 4.8 metres clear footway and it would
also follow the 0.45 metres set off from the curb. As I said, it supports the roll out
of the net zero infrastructure within Barnard and the application is recommended for approval
subject to conditions. Thank you. I should just say that item 9 and item 10 are both
to do with this particular unit. Item 10 is about advertising on the unit. Item 9 is about
installing it. We will vote on them separately, but we will discuss and consider them together.
So we have Rob White of the East Barnet Residence Association. Then we just have Patrick Thomas
the agent. Now, as I say, we could be considering both these together, but we'll put on them
separately. There's two other applications that you're also speaking on with a similar
setup. I don't know if you want to. Just on that point. Do them all separately. What I
will do is because of Hamden and Onslow in close proximity, that will just be one speech.
Perhaps if we look at those together. Then we will go on to the next one perhaps. Do
you want to make the presentation for Onslow then as well, as they are close together.
So if we hear the presentation for Onslow parade. Present that one. Yes, present that
one as well. Okay, similar to what Tina just went through with the Hamden Square one. The
proposal is for the installation of a jolt unit. It's an electrical vehicle charge point
with integral double sided LCD screens and associated electrical connection works and
one parking bay allocated specifically to electric vehicles only. So this is the site
location. And this is where the unit will be placed. It's the first parking bay that
will be against there. The feeder panel would be approximately four meters away from the
actual unit itself. As Tina mentioned earlier on, the requirement for disabled wheelchairs
to be passable on the public footpath is approximately two meters either way. And that clears it
so there's sufficient distance from the back edge of the building lines to the edge of
the jolt unit. And the actual joint unit will be placed in 450 millimeters from the curved
line. The existing footway has a total width of 5.624 millimeters. So that clears it sufficiently
to enable sufficient sort of thorough through on the footpath and accommodate the jolt unit.
The height of the jolt unit is, these are pretty much standard units and it's as per
the other one, 2.65 meters high. And the actual width of it is 1.16 meters in width. So the
unit has no reflective materials and it's gray finish and is sympathetic to the street
scene and it's considered acceptable and subject to conditions officers have recommended for
approval. When the members went out on site visit, we did note that the jolt unit that's
already been implemented on Brookside South, I believe this road is. It's similar, identical
to what's been installed there and that's going to be installed on this location here.
Again, this is the site location. More information about the existing layout and that's the proposed
layout. So this is where the actual unit is going and that's where the feeder panel is.
I have nothing further to add. All right, thank you. On this one, on the parade, we've
got Ethner Rous, who wish to speak. Are you Mr Rous? No? So it's just Patrick Thomas again.
You can address us on both of these then. There's four applications but I'm not going
to give you 12 minutes to speak. If you need more than three minutes, you maybe are slightly
more. I think it's about a three minute speech. Thank you, Chair. Good evening councillors
and everyone in attendance. My name is Patrick Thomas and I'm the planning manager for Jolt.
I'm here tonight to speak about our ongoing collaboration with Barnet Council to deliver
affordable on-street electric vehicle charging powered entirely by renewable energy. Since
my last presentation two weeks ago, we've installed another charger bringing the total
in the borough to 37. The applications before you this evening – that's Hamden and Onslow
– have undergone extensive pre-application discussions and have been carefully considered
in terms of their location and impact. We're pleased to see that the officers have recommended
them for approval and we appreciate that statutory consultees including highways and design have
raised no objections. I would like to thank the officers for their thorough report and
for working with us collaboratively throughout the process. Councillors are already familiar
with the many benefits of Jolt chargers, cleaner air, support for local businesses and contributing
toward Barnet carbon reduction targets. You may recall that in April of this year a charger
was installed at Onslow Parade after approval from Barnet Council. Since its installation
the charger has become one of the busiest in our network, demonstrating a clear demand
for more chargers in the area. One reason for its success is its unique position as
it's located roughly a mile from the nearest other Jolt charger. The average charge time
at Onslow Parade is 62 minutes, higher than the Jolt network average of 51 minutes, indicating
that users are spending more time in the area. We know that 80% of our customers shop and
spend locally while their cars are charging. This directly benefits local businesses driving
foot traffic and supporting the high street. To further support local businesses we will
offer free advertising on our chargers to independent shops in the area. We've seen
this initiative work successfully in Temple Fortune where local businesses reported an
increase in trade thanks to the free advertising. The locations of the new chargers have been
thoughtfully chosen. They're positioned at a busy junction where wide pavements and the
surrounding area allow the chargers to blend seamlessly into the street scene without detracting
from the local character. We believe that the applications before you tonight will promote
sustainability and green economic growth in Barnet. We hope that you support the officer's
recommendation for approval. Thank you for your time and I'd be happy to answer any
questions. Thank you. Any questions on these two, Councillor Roberts?
I just wanted to ask, out of interest really, is there a target for how many institutions
or installations, rather, there should be within, say, the Brunt Park Ward?
And there's not a target, but what I can say is that there won't be any more within this
immediate location. We believe that, as I said, we've got the capacity to have up to
three chargers. We wouldn't be looking for any more in the immediate area. I appreciate
that the wards are quite big. There is obviously a further charger that we're going to speak
about in a moment up on Churchill Road, which is actually in Brunt Park Ward, albeit is
it not in the ward? Oh, okay. That's good. Because that's over a mile away. So, yeah,
I think, to answer your question, I don't imagine any more chargers within the immediate
vicinity of Onslow Parade. But the demand for electric charging vehicles
is just in its nascence, isn't it? Just beginning. It is. I mean, we've got a target within the
borough and obviously what this does is fill a gap within our network that's currently
a gap in this area, hence why we want to provide more chargers.
Thank you. Any more questions? Okay, so we're going to
take these votes one at a time. First on 18 Hamden Square, the first one for installation
of the charging unit. The officer is recommending approval. All those in favour of approval?
That's all. So that application is approved. And the second one for 18 Hamden Square, which
is for the advertisement, for using it for advertising. All those in favour? That's all.
And then onto the next one, 11-12 Onslow Parade. Again, officers recommend approval of installing
the charging unit. All those in favour? That's all. That's approved. And have it used for
advertising. All those in favour? And that's all. So those four applications are approved.
And we move on now to the next one, which is similar to applications, one for installing
the unit and one for advertising at 468 Churchill Road.
Yes, thank you, Chair. Applications are there outside 468 Churchill Road. As before, a couple
of applications, one for full planning permission, we'll be able to add the consent. Description
as per report, the site was yesterday, so I'll just run through this quickly if I may.
So we've got the application site down there on the west side of Churchill Road, down the
bottom of the East Parnock Village end. Photo, right neck of woods there. It's just about
where you get a bit more detail in a minute. So we've got the proposed layout. So we've
got the feeder pillar, 0.38, 1m wide, 0.38D, 1.1m high, and that's on the boundary, proposed
to be on the boundary between 2A and 4, approximately in that position there. And the charge unit
itself, boundary between 4 and 6 in that position there. Same size as the others. I don't need
to go there, I don't think. I think you can't quite see it here, but on the plans, it shows
a gap of just over 2m between the main front wall of the buildings there and the side,
the front of the jolt, charging that position there. I think members have received correspondence
querying that distance in respect of little details in respect of the existing situation
that in roughly on the boundary there, not sure we got a photo of it. No, but members
saw the site yesterday and the shot fronts have got little features, little projections
where it comes out about 12cm I think from what's on the correspondence for a distance
of a width of about 30, 60cm, so it produces a narrow pinch point where the footway width
of that very small area is down from 2.009, I think it is on the plans, to 1.87 for a
very small pinch point. And this concern has been raised I think by an interested party
about that very matter in terms of public safety, etc. My opinion would be that for
a pinch point such as that, I don't believe that public safety access across the footway
would be prejudiced to any degree at all for a distance of that way, the site's level,
there's clear visibility, so I've got no more to add on that particular point in all
other aspects. Everything else is considered access, sorry that's not the site, that's
just a visual. Yeah, street furniture showing it, these are the sites here, so there are
the trees, that's looking at the site from across the road and we did just see a group
of three trees there, so the plan, so it's proposed to avoid those. Colleagues in trees
have seen it and they're satisfied there's no adverse impact on the health and future
of the trees. Highways are happy with it and approve the recommended terms of visual quality,
street scene, etc. It's an appropriate location, it's within a commercial area, it won't detract
from a character appearance of the area, there's no visual amenity aspects that applies to
both the planning side of this and the advertisement considerations of it. And regards to highway
safety, again highways have seen it, they have no issue with regard to the proposed
advertisement causing any issues with regard to safety. I've got nothing else to add,
approve and recommend it on both counts. Thank you. Thank you. We had Michael Lisvitsky who
wished to speak, I see that he's not here, but he's the one who had actually sent us
quite a lengthy email with lots of details about the distance there and so on, which
I'm sure we've all read. So again, Mr Thomas, if you'd like to come and make any comments
on this one. Good evening again councillors, thank you for allowing me to speak again.
Rather than reiterating the general benefits of Jolt, which I've shared with you previously,
I'd like to focus on the specifics of Church Hill Road. Currently, Jolt serves over two
and a half thousand customers who have completed more than 34,000 charges, most of them residing
right here in Barnet. However, Church Hill Road, located in the north-east of the borough,
remains underserved by charging infrastructure. The surrounding area, including streets such
as Capel Road, Jackson Road and Welbeck Road, are predominantly residential with many homes
reliant with on-street parking. It's worth noting that 84% of electric vehicles sold
in Barnet have been purchased by residents with driveways or off-street parking, leaving
those dependent on public charging at a disadvantage. Jolt's free and local charging options can
change this dynamic, helping accelerate the adoption of electric vehicles by making it
more affordable for those without private parking to transition to EVs. In addition
to promoting EV adoption, a reliable public charging network can reduce the number of
applications for front garden conversions into off-street parking, thus preserving the
green space and the character of our residential streets. To highlight the impact of our network,
I'd like to share the words of a Barnet resident and Jolt customer. The Jolt network is a game
changer for drivers who cannot set up at home due to a lack of driveway. It brings the running
costs much closer to home charging and overnight tariffs. I found the Jolt network 100% reliable
and the app is one of the easiest to use and most informative in the charging space. The
25 kilowatts per hour speed makes the chargers incredibly convenient. Now, just turning to
the specific location of this application, the site has been carefully selected in collaboration
with the council's arboricultural officer to ensure no harm is caused to the street
trees and I'm pleased to report that the arboricultural officer has raised no objections. The highways
officer has raised no concerns in relation to parking, including the potential remarking
of the space. That's going to be subject to a separate traffic management order and as
we know, Jolt customers spend in the local area when they are charging. In conclusion,
we believe that this application will help promote sustainability and green economic
growth in Barnet. We hope that you will support the officer's recommendation for approval.
Thank you for your time and I'd be happy to answer any questions.
Thank you. I just wondered if you could comment a little bit about the distance between, that's
left which may or may not be just under the two metres or…
Yes, of course. Just to note that, you know, this is just a very, the Jolt charger, the
actual width of the unit and this pinch point is very narrow. What I would say is that it
is TfL, it's guidance, it's not policy and therefore, you know, in some occasions,
and I think this would be one of them where it is just a very small, literally 20 centimetres
where that gap narrows below two metres, this is acceptable would be my response to that.
Any other questions? Councillor Roberts.
Do we know what's the average time spent on a Jolt recharger here in the borough?
Yes, 51 minutes is the average time charged.
Is there a maximum time to be spent there? No maximum I suppose, but when your car potentially
is fully charged that's obviously dependent on the battery and the conditions but, you
know, 51 minutes is in the region of 110 miles, it obviously depends what miles you're doing
but on average that would give you 110 miles worth of power.
Thank you. Have there been other instances where you've applied for your chargers
that have been of a similar distance from the charger to the building?
Yes, we have got similar instances in the borough where it's been on or around two
metres, obviously our preference is to exceed that where possible but there have been instances
where it has been marginal, shall we say, as is the case here.
Any other questions? No, thank you very much. Any questions to the officers or comments?
No, then we will go to a vote on these. First of all on the recharging units, the officers
are recommending approval, all those in favour? It's 5 and against 1. And for the useful advertising,
all those in favour? 5 and I'm not voting on that so I didn't approve the unit.
So that's those two applications for Churchill Road are approved. And that is the end of
tonight's business. Thank you very much.
Transcript
Summary
This meeting considered planning applications for five sites, and applications for the installation of electric vehicle charging points with advertising at three sites. The Committee approved the application to construct two new flats at Marwood Court on Gruneisen Road, and the application to construct an outbuilding in the garden of 27a Millway. The committee approved both the installation and advertising consent applications for Jolt electric vehicle charging points at 18 Hampden Square, 11-12 Onslow Parade and 468 Churchill Road. The application to demolish and rebuild the Church Hall of St Mary the Virgin on Camlet Way was deferred to a future meeting.
The Church Hall of St Mary the Virgin
The committee considered an application to demolish and rebuild the Church Hall of St Mary the Virgin. The officers had recommended refusal on the grounds that it would cause harm to the character and appearance of the Monken Hadley Conservation Area,1 that it would harm the setting of the Grade II* listed St. Mary the Virgin Church, and that the new building would be materially larger than the existing building, thus representing inappropriate development in the green belt.
Councillor Emma Whysall spoke in favour of the application. She argued that the building was already lost to the community because the cost of restoration was far higher than the cost of a rebuild, that the building currently attracted antisocial behaviour, and that the new building would be a community asset with much local support. She was asked what the cost of a restoration would be, and she said that whilst the community had raised approximately £700,000 for the project, the cost of a restoration was likely to be double that amount. She also said that she had not received any communications from her constituents in opposition to the application.
Alan Cox, the agent for the applicant, also spoke in favour of the application. He argued that, contrary to the officers report, the church had sought pre-application advice from the council before submitting the application, that the building had been deemed beyond economic repair by structural engineers who had commissioned borehole surveys to assess the foundations, and that the increase in volume of the proposed building was less than the 27% increase deemed acceptable at a recent appeal in a nearby area. He also said that English Heritage, who had visited the site, had concluded that the building lacked sufficient historic fabric to warrant listing, and that the harm caused by the loss of the building would be outweighed by the benefits offered by the new building.
Mr Cox was asked about the impact of the closure of the hall, and he said that the building had been closed since June 2023 due to its structural condition, and that as a result, a number of local groups were no longer able to use the building. He was asked about the possibility of reusing materials from the existing building, and he said that whilst they would do their best to do so, much of the existing fabric was in poor condition and would not be suitable. He also noted that a planning condition would require details of new materials to be submitted to the council for approval.
The committee voted against the officer's recommendation for refusal, but because they were minded to approve the application, they deferred it to the next meeting to allow time for the drafting of planning conditions.
Marwood Court
The Committee considered an application to construct an additional floor on top of Marwood Court, a block of flats on Gruneisen Road, to create two new flats. The application was a referral from a previous meeting because the officer report contained an error in the stated height increase. The committee had previously approved the application, and because the officer's recommendation remained unchanged, they were considering the application again in its entirety.
Mark Lester spoke in objection to the application on behalf of himself and two neighbours, Kenji and Neil. He argued that the new floor would be overbearing, that it would impact on sunlight and views and that it was out of keeping with the character of the area. He also noted that the officer report was misleading in its depiction of a tree that was no longer there. Mr Lester was asked about how long Marwood Court had been there, and he said that it had been there for at least 20 years.
Daniel Kaye then spoke in objection to the application on behalf of Mr Lester and his neighbours. He argued that the additional floor would be contrary to the Residential Design Guidance SPD, in particular the requirement for development to respect the massing and height of the surrounding context, and the requirement to safeguard residential amenity where overlooking was an issue. He said that the Planning Officer's report had failed to adequately analyse the impact of the new floor in line with the SPD, and that the officer had not visited the properties of the objectors to see the impact on their gardens. He therefore requested that the committee either refuse the application or defer it to allow for a site visit by the planning officers.
Mr Kaye was asked if the new floor would contain windows overlooking the properties of the objectors, and he said that whilst the windows would be obscured, the impact would be on the scale and massing of the building, rather than the windows. He also pointed out that the application did not include the provision of a lift, meaning that the new flats would be non-compliant with Part M of the Building Regulations,2 and that whilst there was some discretion in the regulations, they would not satisfy the Lifetime Homes3 standard.
Joe Henry, the agent for the applicant, then spoke in favour of the application. He noted that the application had been approved at the previous meeting, and that the only reason for the referral was the inaccurate measurements in the previous report. He confirmed that the drawings submitted with the application were accurate, and that the applicant had corresponded with Councillor Rich, who had called the application in, to explain that the rear windows would be obscured to prevent overlooking. He also noted that despite this, the objectors remained opposed to the additional floor. He argued that the street was of a mixed character, and that the proposed addition would improve the appearance of the building and make it more in keeping with the other properties in the street. Finally, he noted that the application would provide two additional dwellings and would thus contribute to addressing the housing crisis.
Mr Henry was asked to comment on the building regulations issue, and he said that lifts were not a building control requirement, and that planning conditions relating to lifts could only be imposed if there was a prospect that a lift could be provided. In this case, because a lift would need to be installed through other people's flats, it would not be possible to provide one.
The planning officer was asked if the additional story would be contrary to council policy, and he replied that council policy seeks to determine whether development is appropriate to the character of an area. He said that because the existing building was a three storey flat roof building, and because most other buildings in the area had pitched roofs, it could be argued that the proposed development would be an improvement. He also noted that the impact of the addition on neighbouring properties had already been caused by the vertical plane of the existing building, and that the new roof, because it would be pitched, would actually be further away from the properties of the objectors than the existing roof. The officer was asked to confirm that the drawings submitted with the application were the same as the drawings submitted with the previous application, and he confirmed that they were, and that the error was simply an officer error in scaling the plans.
The committee then voted to approve the application.
27a Millway
The Committee considered an application to construct an outbuilding in the rear garden of 27a Millway, a first floor flat. The application had been called in to committee by Councillor Simberg because it was a rear garden development and he believed that it contravened planning rules. He also believed that the size of the building would make it dominant over the main dwelling. The officers were recommending approval, subject to conditions.
Roger Titchbourne spoke in objection to the application. He said that because he had been in France he had not been able to review the officer's report and recommendations until the day before the meeting, and that he was horrified
by what he saw. He pointed out that the report did not mention a mature copper beech tree in his garden, which borders the application site, and that the report was also misleading in its assertion that the site belonged to the applicant's garden. He explained that the area of the garden on which the outbuilding was to be sited had been part of the Mill Hill British Rail freight depot until 1991, and that it had only been sold to the applicant this year. He went on to say that any development on former British Rail freight depots requires a ground survey to assess contamination, and that whilst he had not objected to the application on contamination grounds before, the report's recommendation for low impact screw pile foundations would increase the risk of contamination by drilling down into the soil. He therefore requested that the council request a full ground survey before deciding on the application.
Mr Titchbourne was asked how the applicant had come to own the land, and he explained that the land had been owned by British Rail until 1991, when it was sold to a property developer called Safelands. Mr Titchbourne bought his property from Safelands, and the applicant bought the land from a neighbour who had bought it from Safelands. He noted that the applicant paid only £500 for the land, which was an indication that it was contaminated. He was then asked if he was aware of any other flats on Millway with similar outbuildings, and he said that he was not, and that whilst the officer's report referred to a number of outbuildings on Millway, none of them were of a comparable size, and none of them had toilets and showers, unlike the proposed building. He also noted that none of the outbuildings in the report had planning permission.
Dominic Deer, the agent for the applicant, spoke in favour of the application. He argued that the application would resolve a number of arguments he had with his wife about his gym equipment and working from home, and that because the site did not look contaminated, he would be happy for any conditions regarding surveys to be attached to the application.
The Planning Officer was asked about the copper beech tree and the need for a survey for contamination. The officer replied that he was not aware of any issues regarding contamination because the site had been used as residential garden for many years, and that if there were any issues, they would have arisen when the neighbours were digging in their gardens. He also said that the applicant had confirmed that the proposed building would not be used as a separate flat, and that it would be used in connection with the main dwelling. He noted that if the application had been from a house, rather than a flat, the building would fall under permitted development rights4 and would not require planning permission, and that this was the reason why it was acceptable. He also said that he believed that a condition requiring a survey for contaminated land would be excessive, and that it was not proportionate or relevant to a building of that size.
The committee voted to approve the application.
Electric Vehicle Charging Points
The committee considered applications for the installation of electric vehicle charging points and advertising at three locations. All of the applications were for installations by Jolt, a provider of free electric vehicle charging, and all were for the same type of unit. The officers were recommending approval in all cases.
18 Hampden Square
The committee first considered an application for a charging point at 18 Hampden Square. Rob White of the East Barnet Residents Association had registered to speak, but he was not in attendance, and neither were any members of the public.
Patrick Thomas, planning manager for Jolt, spoke in favour of the application. He said that Jolt currently had 37 charging points in the borough, and that the application had been developed through pre-application discussions with the council. He noted that the Highways and Design teams had raised no objections, and he thanked the officers for their report. He argued that the proposal would bring a number of benefits to the area, including cleaner air and support for local businesses, and he noted that a Jolt charging point installed at Onslow Parade in April had become one of the busiest in their network, indicating that there was demand for charging points in the area. He also said that Jolt offered free advertising to independent shops on its chargers, and that it would do so in this case. He argued that the location had been carefully chosen because it was at a busy junction with wide pavements, meaning that it would blend in with the street scene.
Mr Thomas was asked about the number of Jolt installations in the Burnt Oak ward, and he said that there were no targets, but that there wouldn't be any more in the immediate area because they only had capacity for three charging points there. He also said that the demand for electric vehicle charging was in its nascence
, and that the proposed unit would fill a gap
in their network. He was asked about the average dwell time for charging, and he said that it was 51 minutes.
The committee voted to approve both the installation of the charging unit and its use for advertising.
11-12 Onslow Parade
The committee then considered an application for a charging point at 11-12 Onslow Parade. Again, the committee had no public speakers.
Mr Thomas said that he would not repeat his arguments about the benefits of Jolt charging points, and instead focused on the specifics of the proposal. He noted that whilst there was a Jolt charging point at Onslow Parade, the average dwell time there was 62 minutes, compared to an average of 51 minutes across the rest of the network, indicating that users were spending more time there because it was the only Jolt charging point in the area. He also said that 80% of Jolt customers shopped and spent locally while their cars were charging. He then said that the location for the new unit had been chosen in collaboration with the council's tree officer to ensure that there would be no harm to the street trees, and he confirmed that the tree officer had raised no objections.
Mr Thomas was asked about the average dwell time for charging, and he said that it was 51 minutes, and that this would typically give users about 110 miles of power.
The committee voted to approve both the installation of the charging unit and its use for advertising.
468 Churchill Road
The committee then considered an application for a charging point at 468 Churchill Road. Michael Lisvitsky had registered to speak, but was not in attendance.
Mr Thomas said that he would focus on the specifics of this proposal and avoid reiterating the general benefits of Jolt. He explained that Jolt currently had over 2,500 customers in the borough who had completed over 34,000 charges, but that Churchill Road, in the north-east of the borough, was underserved
by charging points. He noted that the surrounding area was residential and that many houses relied on street parking. He said that whilst 84% of electric vehicles sold in Barnet had been to residents with driveways, the installation of public charging points would accelerate the adoption of electric vehicles by residents without off-street parking. He went on to say that the availability of public charging could also reduce the number of applications for front garden conversions for off-street parking, which would help preserve green space and the character of the borough's streets. He then said that the location had been carefully chosen in collaboration with the council's tree officer to ensure that there would be no harm to street trees.
Mr Thomas was asked about the issue of the narrow width of the pavement at the chosen location, and he said that the pinch point was very narrow, and that whilst Transport for London (TfL) guidance required a minimum two-metre width, it was guidance, rather than policy, and that it was therefore acceptable. He was asked about the average dwell time for Jolt users in the borough, and he said that it was 51 minutes, but that there was no maximum dwell time. He was also asked if there had been any other instances of Jolt applying to install chargers where there was less than the recommended two metre pavement width, and he said that there had been, and that whilst it was their preference to exceed that distance, there had been instances where it was marginal
.
The committee voted to approve both the installation of the charging point and its use for advertising.
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Conservation areas are
areas of special architectural or historic interest, the character or appearance of which it is desirable to preserve or enhance
. They are designated by local planning authorities under the Planning (Listed Buildings and Conservation Areas) Act 1990 ↩ -
Part M of the Building Regulations sets out the requirements for access to and use of buildings. ↩
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Lifetime Homes is a set of 16 design standards intended to ensure that homes are suitable for people of all ages and abilities, and can adapt to people's changing needs as they get older. ↩
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Permitted development rights allow homeowners to carry out certain types of work without the need to apply for planning permission. These rights are set out in the Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) Order 2015 (as amended) ↩
Documents
- Marwood Court 25 Gruneisen Road N3 1LT Committee Report other
- Public reports pack 09th-Oct-2024 19.00 Planning Committee reports pack
- 27A Millway London NW7 3QR Committee Report other
- Agenda frontsheet 09th-Oct-2024 19.00 Planning Committee agenda
- Church Hall St Mary The Virgin Church Of England Committee Report other
- OS 18 Hampden Square N14 5JR 24-0044-ADV Committee Report other
- OS 11-12 Onslow Parade N14 5JN 23-3944-FUL Committee Report other
- OS 18 Hampden Square N14 5JR Committee Report other
- OS 11-12 Onslow Parade N14 5JN 23-3945-ADV Committee Report other
- OS 4 6 And 8 Church Hill Road EN4 8TB 23-4677-FUL Committee Report other
- OS 4 6 And 8 Church Hill Road EN4 8TB 23-4678-ADV Committee Report other
- Supplementary Agenda 09th-Oct-2024 19.00 Planning Committee agenda
- Planning Committee Minutes 26.09.24 other