Transcript

Thank you very much. That could have been awkward, couldn't it? Thank you both. Okay, so just to further announce to everybody, good evening, thanks everybody for joining us. My name is Councillor Robson. I am the Chair of Licensing and a representative here in good old Clapham town. Before we start the meeting, I have a few announcements in line with the meeting. The meeting rules, the meeting is hosted by Lambeth and as you've just heard there from Jacqueline Pennycook who is from Democratic Services, the meeting will not be broadcast live this meeting. However, we are going to record the meeting. Are we recording from now Jacqueline or do you need me to kind of do a quick countdown? Yes, Chair, yeah. Brilliant, thank you very much. And recordings will be used in future for quality and training purposes. No need to talk about technical issues because we're not going out live. To ensure that the meeting runs smoothly, I ask that only one individual will be allowed to speak at any time. As we're all on from Teams, please ensure that your microphone is muted until you're asked to speak. Any person speaking must be permitted to finish what they're saying without interruption. If I request that individual stop speaking, they should do so immediately. Interruptions may result in you being disconnected from this meeting. Please note that subcommittee will notify interested parties of its decision on each application within five working days. Now, we only have one application to hear this evening, so I just want to do a quick roll call. You've heard, can I just ask my fellow Councillor committee to introduce themselves? Councillor Cole, I'll come to you first. Sorry, yes, good evening. I'm Sarah Cole, Councillor for Scafford. And over to Councillor De Silva. Hi, everyone. I'm Councillor De Silva, Councillor for Waterloo and South Bank Ward. Thank you very much. I'll just come to some of the Lambeth officers please as well before I kind of just see who else is here. Selina? Hi, everyone. I'm Selina Iaffe and I'm the legal advisor to the subcommittee this evening. Thank you. Pam, I know you'll be going in depth shortly, but if you did a quick introduction. Hi, I'm Pamela Riley. I'm the licensing officer for this case. Last but not least in any way from the license from the Lambeth team, Jacqueline. Good evening, everyone. I'm Jacqueline Pennycork, Democratic Services. Brilliant. So that's the team before you this evening. And before I come on to applicants and representations, I just want to move on to kind of item two of the agenda, which has any declarations of interest. Do my colleagues have any declarations of interest with the application this evening? No, I don't. Brilliant. On that basis, we'll move on to item number three, which is the licensing application for the grant of a premises license. This is for Supercute, which is based over the ground floor unit one on Shakespeare Business Centre, Cold Harbour Lane, London SW9 8RR and it's a variation application. Is the applicant online? You are, sir. Hello there. Could you please just make sure I've got your name properly in your taskbar as well there on Teams, just so that I can, just for the sake of everybody in the minutes. And we have, so we, in terms of from the representations, I can see we've got Margarita online and Emma online. That's correct. Yeah. Yep. Don't worry. So yes, that's brilliant. Thanks very much. So we'll get to you in due course. So how the end of this meeting goes, I'm going to ask Pam to introduce this as a licensing officer and then we'll be asked questions of the committee. Then we'll invite the applicants to speak for a few minutes before some other questions and then we'll come to the members of the public who have expressed their interest in making a representation. We can only accept those representations from people who have filed them. They're the only ones who will be able to speak here this evening. With that in mind, Pam, I'm going to throw over to you to introduce the application, please. Thank you, chair. This is an application for a variation to the current premises license submitted by SuperQ LND Ltd. The applicant is seeking the authorization to add the following activities, plays, live music, recorded music, performance of dance, anything of similar description, falling under music and dance, and the provision of late night refreshment. The application also wishes to amend the hours for the activities of film and the sale of alcohol on the premises. The application and supporting documents can be found at page 13 to 53 of the report. Following discussions with the applicant and the licensing authority, the applicant agreed to reduce the hours originally sought on the application. The applicant has also agreed to retain the original condition 15 with a slight amendment, which now states the premises license holder shall do a risk assessment when holding an event at the premises to determine whether an SIA member of staff is required to work the event. The premises license holder will inform the licensing authority at least one week prior to the event requiring an SIA member of staff. A copy of the amended hours and agreed conditions was circulated to the objectors and is attached at Annex C and can be found on pages 73 to 74 of the report. There were seven residents who made representation against the application, which are included on pages 55 to 72 of the report. Attending tonight's hearing for the applicant is Hammett Patel-Villa, who is the owner of SuperQ L&D Limited. Attending for the objectors, we have Margarita - sorry I'm going to totally butcher your surname

• Pogoli, whose representation can be found on page 55 to 62 of the report. Dawan Ramadhan, whose representation can be found at 63 of the report. Heath Powers has confirmed he is unable to attend the hearing tonight, but has asked Margarita to speak on his behalf. His representation can be found on page 70 to 72 of the report. And Emma Pumphret, whose representation can be found on page 68 of the report. That includes my introduction. I'll take any questions. Thank you, Pam. Committee, was there any questions at this stage to the licensing officer? I'm seeing hearing none. On that basis, we'll proceed to speak to Mr Patel-Villa, is that correct? So good evening. So thank you very much for coming this evening. So I suppose we invite you now for up to three, five minutes on why you're seeking this kind of variation to the license. Thank you. Thank you so much. Just a little historical background. We have venues in Brixton for 12 years. SuperQ started as a small bar in Brixton and we've been obviously very integrated into into Brixton having been brought up here as well. So I was one of the founding members of the bid and we also chair the environmental committee in Brixton to get projects underway, including this project, SuperQ, which we started three months ago. So it hasn't been there very long. And essentially it's a micro brewery that we're looking to extend the license of licensable activities and also extend the closure times by an hour. So our unit is actually part of a business center. And as you can see in the map, it's not actually adjacent to any domestic properties. So the actual building itself for over 20 years was a garage and MOT center. So I took my first car then when I was 17. So it's historically been a place that has always had business and significant noise. So our entrance is actually under the bridge at Loughborough junction. So the trains go over it and on the main road there you get the buses and cars passing the premises. So this is a kind of natural noise barrier to any noise that might escape the venue. Also, we have a large shutter. So the shutter is about four meters high and a few meters wide, which we need obviously for lorries and things like this coming back and forth collecting kegs. But equally in the evenings it opens up so people can see what's happening and come in and it has this quite an engaging feel for any passers by to come in and also enjoy what we offer. And we're hoping that they also enjoy some of the new activities that we're looking to do and very community orientated as well. So there's many things I can tell you about SuperCute engaging with the Harlem Brixton projects, we bring Harlem beers, we want to do Harlem events, etc. So we feel that the noise given the situation of a very noisy area where we're in anyway, it'd be very hard for any noise we would be able to compete with in effect the surrounding area. So we conducted a noise test as a few times actually, not just once, to see how far the sound would emanate. So we conducted quite a severe test where the peak is well above that we would do normally and to see how far it would go. And when we do get to the first domestic property, the sound levels drop to below the way I'm speaking. And that's external to the property. So while, you know, there is concern, obviously there is concern that we would somehow make so much noise as to affect the properties around us. Just because it's central Brixton, if this was a completely void and dead area, you may be able to hear some sound, but we didn't find that in the test. We did find that the attenuation of the sound was such that within 20 meters, it was very hard to hear some of the peak levels. So what we feel is that we're not asking for anything too excessive by extending Fridays, the nights to midnight. And then the actual events that we're conducting, obviously we have professional sound engineers that will ensure that we DJs can't go too loud because no one really likes this. We also are concerned very much so that friendship adventure, the business prior to us made our beers at super cute and they were a super business, a really good people, but they, they crashed. They, they went into administration. And one of the reasons was definitely because they told us was the fact that they couldn't do so many events. They couldn't stay open later to enjoy the Brixton nightlife as it were. So we've really taken that into consideration as a major part of what we need to achieve to just stay alive. So we do think that by extending licensable activities, we won't affect hopefully the people around us in a negative way, but actually in a positive way where we are engaging hugely with our community as we're all Brixtoners and also extend some things like plays and community events that that area which has been a bit of a black spot in its history will hopefully be a little better. And just to add, even in the last week, we've had people enter very late. We've had women come to us because they've been followed from the station and we've even had a child claiming that he was going to be kidnapped. So we had to call the police. So there is something that that area and having the ability for people to come and walk in is quite important for Loughborough junction. With that, I thank you so much for your attention. And lastly, just one point while I remember that people are also concerned about intoxication, but you know, as licensee holders for so long, the last thing we want is drunk people. I mean, we work very hard not to have people who are drunk because they create problems and our staff are trained not to, you know, to, to do our, to do their best and not letting them in. And if they do get intoxicated, to get rid of them as soon as possible. It's not something that we, we want to be engaged with. So thank you so much for your consideration and your time. Thank you, Mr Patel Villa. I'm going to open out to the committee. I don't want to lead from the chair straight away. So unless, unless who wants to kick off? Councillor De Silva. Thank you chair. Hello, Mr Villa. I just wanted to ask when I'm looking at the table of existing hours versus the agreed amended hours, um, your opening hours currently Sunday to Wednesday are 11 till midnight, Thursday 11 till one and Friday and Saturday 11 till 2 AM. You have however now agreed to Monday, sorry, Sunday to Thursday 11 till midnight and Friday and Saturday. No, sorry. Apologies. My apologies. Sunday to Thursday 11 AM to 11 PM and then Friday 11 AM to midnight. So that's actually reducing your opening hours. You're on mute Mr Villa. Yeah, sorry. Um, the way we understood, uh, the, the original limitations was that we were closing at 11 PM every night and we requested to go until 1 AM. Um, but, uh, um, with the count, with the licensing authority, they would say they were offering us midnight. So I'm, I'm not sure if I've got a different document that was sent to us from Lambeth and yourselves because we would actually like to go till 1 AM. Could you confirm what the current, um, existing hours are versus the agreed. We can come back to that if that's, if that's okay. So I think let's ask a couple of others. Let's just keep it focused for the other kind of questions on for Mr Villa. But I think our understanding is these are the agree amended hours as per, and that's been set out previously, which is till midnight. But, um, yeah, so, so the idea initially was that we would go until 1 AM, but after discussing with Lambeth on, you know, because it seemed to be an increase from 11 till 12 that we would limit that. We pulled back until midnight and see how that goes, even though, you know, we still feel that there, you know, the sound mitigation isn't, you know, works, but I think it was just clarification. The committee was seeking at this stage and there might be something further down the line, but for now that kind of midnight is the kind of suck it in the try and see type thing. Kanta Nicole, shall I bring it over to you? Yes, thank you. So, um, I just like to ask if I may for a little more detail about your live performances, um, what, what those might involve. And also on your sound testing, um, if you're planning to use acoustic instruments in your live performances, did you sound test those in terms of the sort of reach, because it seems those could be quite different kind of sound from, from the normal traffic, traffic noise, you know, and quite certain instruments would be quite penetrating, um, to the neighbours buildings. So I just wondered if you could expand a little on that for us. Thank you. Yes. Um, yeah. So what we did as a sound test is to use, um, a modern piece of music, which has those kinds of upper and lower frequencies to see how far they'd go, including the human voice. So while we wouldn't be able to test every single sound instrument, uh, it gave a good gamut of, uh, frequency and decibel volumes. Uh, one of the things also, which is, which, which can be an issue to venues is that artists will bring their own sound equipment and set that up, especially for particular instruments. Um, you know, especially when, when it comes to guitar, for instance, they'll, they'll bring their own amps. Um, what, what we have found though, that people bringing in their own equipment, isn't as powerful as venue equipment and often link up to venue equipment. So that kind of sound limitation on, on the gateways that we use to keep this, to minimise the sound, uh, come into effect. Um, and, and there is also this very simple premise that, um, us and the staff and management are also, uh, uh, experienced with setting up DJs with setting up, um, uh, bands or live acoustics, et cetera. And when sounds do become, um, that loud is it actually is not beneficial to the ambience. Anyway, it becomes quite off-putting to be in a, in a venue which has very loud or unbalanced sounds. So not only for the staff, but equally for the people listening. So it can be a barrier to entry if anything. So yeah, we, we, uh, in setting up sound, essentially, we are trying to get that, uh, clarity of music, uh, and of sound and of speech, but not to allow certain instruments to overtake because it becomes, uh, yeah, it's not good. It's simply, uh, it would be a very poor setup to allow that to happen. Thank you. So it's more sort of ambient sound that you're looking for. It would depend on the event because we would love to have live sounds. We would love to have local musicians. We're looking to have jazz. We are looking to have DJs. We're looking to have dance, you know, uh, the different things that Brixton does basically. So we're completely reflective of what Brixton is doing already. And what we at Supercute have done already in Brixton for the last 12 years. Yes. Thank you very much for that. Thank you. Just before I kind of throw it over to De Silva, Council of De Silva, but on that note, I think, yeah, I was just, I'm just intrigued to know about the programming as a, not just necessary sound, but you know, in terms of making this a multipurpose space, I just wondered if you could maybe explain to the committee what some of those other plans were. Yeah. So some of it, it's so wide because we're working with Harlem, the Harlem Taproom as well. So this is Celeste Beatty, who's the first female black brewer. So we're working with her to do quite a few innovative things. So one of the things is quite small, which is actually just a link up with the Washington University and Lincoln Center on the history of black music and of jazz. So it's just a talk, but that might entail 20 or 30 people in a room with a TV on and examples of jazz through the history. So that's quite a small community event. And on the other side, the same person we're working on actually getting a Harlem jazz band into the venue, which would be a full band, which would be quite a, you know, quite a auspicious occasion as, as it were. And they would be looking to obviously get as many people as we can comfortably and also have enough space because it is a small venue for them to be able to play. So, you know, then we're looking at the normal bricks and activities where you have young, especially female and Latino DJs who often don't get the ability to play out is something that we've always done at Supercute. So we have a very unique take on who we're offering time and space to. So that's another event. And then you, then you've got the normal cultural events throughout the year. So Cinco de Mayo is one of the things we're looking at, Halloween, Dios de los Muertos, you know, all these different events that happen through the year that again is quite looked at in Brixton, let's say that we, again, we've done for a number of years with different people and different events and often a lot of the talent that we're using. So working with Brixton House on another potential programming event, et cetera. So we're at the point now that we're just deciding now on how our programming may work if we get the extended hours, because it actually affects how people view Brixton and whether they'll even come in. So we've already discovered that if places are shutting just that little bit earlier, people are just put off that they they're not having a full evening, especially on a Friday and Saturday. So this is part of the discussions within the Brixton night-time economy on how we rebuild some of the traffic coming in and also the economy sense as well, that we were able to pay for our staff. Thank you for that. Count it as silver. I think I'm hoping I've not missed something in the hundred and something pages of documents we get, but point 1.3 on the application, the applicant also seeks to remove the condition 15 of a minimum of two SIA licensed door supervisors. Is there a reason why you are asking to remove that condition? Yes, absolutely. You'll find that there's a few problems with this. One, SIA is normally associated with events and clubs and things like that. Not just a normal running of a craft brewery. A craft brewery doesn't have the scope or I don't know a single craft brewery of our size that would have SIA agents, you know, standing outside. Secondly, the cost as well becomes prohibitive. So say two SIA agents, £30 an hour, six hours, £180. I mean, that's more than the profit we would take on every single night except maybe on a Friday and Saturday. So the argument of having SIA agents is also part of the issue in that you're also forming a barrier to entry from people who would normally come. So where there is an event with a lot of people, then that's brilliant. You need that kind of door management, you need the security, you need someone maybe tamping down people. But in general normal events, it becomes not only inconsequential, but a burden and also a barrier to entry where someone even coming in off the street is not appreciative of that kind of blockage, as it were, because then it becomes another issue with the staff themselves who are experienced. We've been brought up and grew up in Brixton and know how to conduct ourselves with people. So part of the reason of the relinquishing of this constant SIA feature is not only it's too expensive, but it really is not needed. It's not the way to treat normal people coming into a normal place that's doing craft brewing for 90% of the time. Just to jump in on there, if I may, and I think, I mean, well, first of all, I mean, you have agreed to have SIA staff on as per the recommendations from the license and office when you're having these say 10 big occasions, if this wasn't to go through, correct? But I suppose it would then, but then it would flag, I mean, just to clarify, I mean, I know of course you are in Brixton and I'm not anyway, dumbing down the location, but you are on the way more down towards Love Projunction headed towards Denmark Hill there, but you are closer to Brixton nonetheless. I mean, I think it was a comment you kind of made earlier Mr. Patel about wanting drunk people out as soon as possible, which to me would then be some sort of a welfare risk for the individuals involved. And then I'd like to hear a little bit more then on how you're going to protect vulnerable people, such as people who might be intoxicated for whatever fault of their own. If there is, I mean, SIA staff are not there to be big, scary people, they're there about the welfare of the people on site as well as around. And so it's a two part question really, I suppose, you know, the management of handling drunk people, vulnerable people. And you mentioned as well about, you know, being a safe space and it was really good to hear that that can be a safe space. And I was actually really pleased to see about the LGBT inclusive training you've carried out as well. So there's something in it that how are you going to provide, ensure you provide that safe space for vulnerable people, as well as people who might be wanting to kind of come and to be a safe space, getting from A to B walking around on a Saturday night in Brixton, Denmark Hill? Yeah, I think, you know, part of the reasoning behind this is because we have been operational for so long in Brixton, in central Brixton at Supercute and at the Courtesan and at the Harlem Taproom and assisting other businesses as well. And, you know, we found a modus operandi of working where the best way to deal with people is to really understand them, respect them and make sure that, as you're saying, make sure the vulnerabilities are taken care of and that we are showing fellow feeling so that those mechanisms have always worked for us. Where we have or where we do see issues is not necessarily on the local community, maybe, you know, coming in and having extra drinks where we have seen issues is where there are events where you're actually getting or ticketed events or other events where you're getting much, many more people in. And that just the increase of people creates a different atmosphere, often with people coming in from further sometimes, which happens a lot in Brixton market where we get more worried is where people come in already tanked up, as it were. So they already come in with alcohol and with drink because the setting of the venues that we've taken care of don't have that feel. They don't have that attraction. We're not a club. We're not, you know, we're not a dance hall. We're not we're not doing events that have that similar kind of pull and feel. You know, in all those years, we've not had any any issues. So and it's simply because of the way I suppose that what we're offering doesn't engage people in the same way because therefore, you know, otherwise every shop in Brixton would have SIA agents. Every restaurant would have an SIA agent every and that, you know, and that's simply not true. I mean, I suppose I'd push back there, but then shops don't sell have an alcohol license per se. You know, you look at the Ritzy. Ritzy have SIA staff on, for example, you know. So I suppose it was just what is it that's different about this vibe that, you know, it's not that they don't have. Yeah, I think in just normal operations, we've got 20 people coming in. You know, it's not we don't get to those levels to require SIA. Yeah. Obviously, if something does happen, you know, it would be lovely to have SIA there constantly. But it's simply, you know, for those two reasons, the barrier it creates and the non-affordability on a normal operation. So the idea is here that given we understand that events bring people and events, you know, and particular type of events, if we have a cultural evening with a talk from, you know, from university professors from the US, I don't expect to use SIA. But if we're going to have a Latino late party on Cinco de Mayo where they're celebrating Mexican independence, then yes, we would have SIA agents. And as we've highlighted, you know, you've agreed to the condition, which is basically to risk assess to whether this will kind of need it. So that's loud and clear. But thank you for explaining a little bit for us there. Committee, was there any other kind of additions in terms of questions before I move on? Serena, sorry, Councillor De Silva, sorry. I am sorry, Chair. Just one more that I noticed on the paperwork was a note from the fire safety checks was that there was an adequate light into the emergency exit routes. So just wondering if that has been dealt with or when you are planning to deal with that. And you know, and to clarify, that won't be, I mean, that's, I suppose, a separate kind of from this person. Yeah, it's not part of the application. As the question's been asked and in terms with, you know, I think it taps into this thing that we're asking about kind of safety and stuff as well, doesn't it? So yeah. Yes, we had a fire safety, we did a routine fire safety check going through the kind of exit facilities, etc. Excuse me. And just because it's just one big open space, the actual lighting is quite effective. And therefore the emergency lighting as well when it kicks on, it is enough ambience. But agreed, you know, it's not something we need to sit on. We can retest that and see if that works accordingly. One of our issues was we didn't try at night. So it'd be good to try at night to just see if the lighting is as efficacious as we truly believe. But yeah, all the exit signs are working. It seems to be okay. Thank you. Probably just one more kind of last comment question for me. I mean, the council is trying out this kind of safe space zone thing that they're doing, working with businesses on like a kind of scheme with the bids across the boroughs to say, you know, if venues want to be a, I think it ties in with the night time enterprise zone, about whether they want to help be a pilot and making sure that their business is known as a kind of safe space. I suppose if that was to be, say, a condition, would you be agreeable to have something like that with your premises? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, as one of the, you know, as a bid director, it's one of the things we wanted to institute, you know, Brixton wide, that Brixton itself has traditionally and historically been one of the safest spaces for gay people, LGBT. You know, we had the Black Panther movement start in Atlantic road. We knew, you know, growing up, we knew some of these people. We know that also some of the safe spaces for gay people were started by friends of mine in Brixton and family friends when we grew up. So, you know, for us at the bid at least, we think it should be, we should be even talking about it in a different sense that every venue should have a complete safe space. And it wasn't about, that's not the issue because there is not a single business owner I know or venue owner in Brixton who would disagree with you. I think what the next issue is, is how do we link up to actually provide safe spaces for people where it's not only known, but that feeling comes across because it is, so that there are actual action items in place to ensure that that space, that safe is actually safe for everybody. And hopefully we will be able to be a model for other town centres. Brilliant, thanks very much. Okay, so moving on to under 3B, item number 5 and this is where I ask the interested parties to turn your cameras on. That's Emma Margarita, are you there? Thank you. Good evening. We are here. One second please. I'm going to take you in alphabetical order, so I think by order of a limit, although that is actually you, so you were correct, Margarita. So I think whilst I know you're here on behalf of Keith Powers, I know you, so, but you yourself have filed a representation and I think so, I'm not going to give it too much longer, but you're the gentleman that you're with, have you, has he filed a representation as well? Is that Mr Ramatan? Okay, yeah. Well, what I'm saying is you don't get extended time. That's fine. If you're speaking on behalf of someone else, so I'm going to give you both five minutes starting now. Thank you very much for this time and good evening everybody. We are speaking as residents and I mean representing Keith Powers as well and also neighbours, neighbours of Supercute and just want to give a little bit of an introduction to the situation that we are, this is the second time we go to hearing with the Council. The first time was in 2020 with the previous brewery, it was Friendship Adventure and we had similar issues or similar kind of, not disagreements but kind of we were on different parts of the same boat and in this case we want to thank Supercute first of all for running a soundcheck, that was really helpful, it was really helpful to see, even though it was slightly confusing because we didn't feel that in the videos there was evidence of the level of the equipments that you were running so it was not as clear but thank you very much for doing that. What we have not sent through was the first report, sound report that we did and also possibly a map of the geographical locations of where all the residents, parts of the residents who have done representations are. We leave on the first household on Shakespeare Road which is mentioned actually in the report, our daughter's bedroom and when bedroom windows are on top of the courtyard entrance that has been mentioned in the report. So we have seen that the report states that there is about 65 decibel noise levels and we're still quite concerned by that because the World Health Organisation guidelines state that the upper guideline limits for outside noise are 55 decibels so that's 10 decibels more than what Supercute's tests are showing and our normal decibels are about 40 inside the house and you know with all the background noise that we can hear so like the levels the Supercute's noise coming from the shutter was revealing it's just it all bounces around from the road to the houses in front to the courtyards like it's quite strong. So we wish Supercute well with all the events and he's very excited about those but we do ask still that the shatters are kept down during events at all times and that from at least 9pm in the evening they get shut down regardless of weather because you know our daughter goes to school every day even if it's hot and she has to study during the day anyway but like in the evenings like mainly the problem. We also are like slightly confused by the questionnaire that was sent through because we never got asked to participate in the questionnaire none of the residents got asked not even the local action group, Loughborough Junction Action Group, LJAC got asked to be part of the questionnaire so while we commend the work that Supercute is doing in Brixton we feel that the entrance of the community Loughborough Junction which is still quite strong it's like not you know we'd like to have a different relationship I suppose at the moment is quite fraught. We are also slightly well this is Supercute's decision but it they have an entrance on Cold Double Lane which is a road heavy with you know sirens you can hear them outside our road now you can you know you got all sorts of traffic going through so that's quite dangerous for patrons. I suppose this is more or less more or less everything that we need to mention we yeah so if the shutters were closed. We don't have a problem with the hours of how late it wants to go to 12 but like to have the shutters down by eight nine o'clock of an evening would really like help mitigate any sound that's traveling around obviously the sound report was done during the day alike but nine o'clock in the evening think sound I don't know is it quieter does travel does sound travel differently you know when there's not as much going on can you hear more I don't know so like yeah to mitigate sound as much as possible for the shutter to come down you know at a reasonable time not to full working hours would be amazing as far as I think Margarita I, Keith our neighbours and other neighbours that couldn't that did object but couldn't be here tonight. So yeah thank you both. I'll come to all applicants first and then we'll come to the committee for questions so Emma ask you please you've got up to five minutes from now okay yes thanks thanks for hearing from us for a start. First of all yeah I would agree just on the hours I would agree that the amended hours seem reasonable that 11 p.m sunday to thursday friday saturday midnight. I would just comment on the sound report as Margarita explained it didn't really have any the measures that were reported didn't really have any context so it's interesting to know that 55 decibels is considered a reasonable limit and the first and that this the report is 65 is therefore significantly above that. I would add that reading the report I live five doors down on Shakespeare road and I think the report suggested or recorded that there was a sort of negligible level of noise heard at that point but when the sound test was done I could hear from the front of our house so I came out to find out what the kerfuffle was and what the noise was because it was actually quite disturbing even at the level that they that the report says is negligible so I would question that. I just want to point out that the sound travels it must ping off the railway arch and travel up the road so yeah I would very much welcome the shutter being down for events and also the shutter being down from eight or nine p.m on all occasions I think that will make a massive difference to us to the neighbours and the residents in the area. And I guess lastly I'm not sure if the questionnaire has been submitted by the applicant as kind of evidence or to support to support Supercute's case but I would question firstly that it refers to our community it doesn't it refers to the number of customers who were inside Supercute on a particular date the questionnaire didn't come to any neighbours or residents in the area and also I was slightly puzzled on two of the questions that were in the questionnaire because one asks would you like longer hours and this was sent out after the agreed amended hours have been established in this hearing process well sorry before this hearing process and the second point was just a question about use of the courtyard would the community welcome that and that actually was a decision that was decided by the licensing committee hearing in 2020 the previous owners that the courtyard should never be used so I think that question was number question four on this question that should be disregarded yes that may be irrelevant but anyway for this hearing it is I think if you were to go down the route for the courtyard I think that would have to come back on a separate fine disregard that then it was more that the questionnaire didn't reach us and we are in the community okay so yeah do you want to just for the for the sake of the committee what was the questionnaire just to clarify for the sake of minutes per se it was sent out just well by whom the applicants emailed to us by Pam Riley just this afternoon yeah and I don't I'm only questioning it if it is submitted as evidence to support the applicants case thank you okay thanks brilliant committee are there any questions to our representations Councillor Silver thank you thank you all for attending this evening and putting forward your case I wanted to ask in regards to the shutters I have not actually been to the venue to see it I know that Councillor Robson did and some of the images I've got are just from the cold harbour lane side are the shutters you're referring to on the Shakespeare roadside or the cold harbour lane side as I mentioned the shutters first the images that we sent I suppose that they are the ones that are on the cold harbour lane side the shutter is on the cold harbour lane side it is the only as far as we know allowed entrance into the premises and it has a normal sized door within it within itself so the shutter is big and inside there is a door to that you can use to enter am I correct come on yes uh yeah mr for this mr patel mr villa patel is nodding sorry patel villa is nodding there um was that was that it there Councillor de silver on that one yeah I just uh because I'm not completely familiar with the area I just wanted to understand how far the entrance was from Shakespeare road I imagine the thing about the shutters is to have that open accessible kind of feel to it said but it was important to state there as well then that there is a door within the shutters for access because I think if it was if it was all completely shut and everybody was inside I think that would beg a lot of other kind of questions but that's not for now Councillor Cole and thank you yeah my question was actually the same one um really so so the shutter that that we're talking about is on cold hover lane by the railway and um but the issue is is that noise coming through the shutter when the door is open to let people in and out is is that the so the first question would be is that the way that people come into the venue um so the door is sort of opening and closing through the evening um and then the next question is is there any is that definitely the source of the noise that reaches the residents or you know is it is it is is there another kind of route for the noise um three to shakespeare road and if we could just get a bit of clarification on that and whether you could perhaps um soundproof that shutter a bit more effectively well this is so these are questions to the rep to the to clarify this is questions to our representatives before we then would go back to the applicant so do you want to ask that to the reps um okay so so to the residents yes um so we're talking about the um the shutters on cold harbor lane um and is that definitely the the concern that you have as far as noise that the noise is is reaching you through through the shutter thank you i hope that's clear yeah yeah yeah so is that the main source of noise pollution yeah similar question to council distance because as uh i mean said before it's like three meters wide by six seven meters high when it's open oh yeah it's it's it's a huge open space but when the shutters down the noise is really like calmed down quite a lot so it's just really like having this it's just like having no wall do you know what i mean it's a huge shutter open opening up like it's like i said three and a half meters by six seven meters high you know and then but like margarita said that there is a door within that shot when the shutters down and there's a there is a a normal sized door for people to enter and leave from so yeah it being open massive late is going to make lots of noise because that's where all the noise is coming from is inside so far and i would like to ask emma as well but so far all the noise that we have recorded has been with the shutter open and with the back door which goes on to the courtyard but we're not going to talk about that court yet closed but the main entrance is through the yeah the front on call double a if the shutters down i don't think it requires any additional soundproofing the shutter does we've not done any testing to be honest we haven't but we don't we hardly hear it we've not done it with us okay thank you i think that's clarified okay one at a time people please thank you thank you uh did you want to finish off there margarita yeah i just wanted to say that the shutter at the moment has a see-through uh space so you can actually see inside you can see the venue it's really nice you can see the venue you can see the lights you can see the people so there is advertisement the shutter when it's the shutter is closed you can still see that it's a live venue thank you for that emma did you want to come in on a point no i would just second that i think that is the shutter being open is the main source of noise um and i think even with it with it closed it's still clear that there's a venue there thanks to lighting and signage um with that in mind then if there's no other further questions from the committee to our residents okay thank you um well actually maybe one question i would have then so i mean so obviously super cute this is quite a new this is a new venture so this is a variation on existing premises license you mentioned was this an issue with the previous venue sorry guys you're on mute sorry sorry you it's a question for us right yes please when the shutter was down it wasn't um an issue but they weren't having oh they did have a little bit of live music no it was a case they never had um events they always had really um kind of quiet evenings um it's just you said that things were a bit fraught at one point so i just wondered what that was from the business that well unfortunately because they wanted to access the famous courtyard that we cannot talk about got yet understood right the door the soundproofing door at the back is open the levels of noise go way beyond like what happens with the front shutters open so you know that's the problem gotcha thank you okay so with all that in mind and with the discussion so uh come back to kind of interested parties committee was there any other questions you wanted to ask mr patel villa counselor de silva um it wasn't for mr patel villa it was actually for the residents again sorry just to clarify something about the shutters again um when you're asking for the shutters to be down is it every day or just when there's events that are slightly louder every day at eight nine o'clock would be great because it just any noise will just be spinning out if it's open till 11 12 o'clock at night noise noise is going to come out late at night right so but then if there is an event during the day that has live music let's say for the afternoon because it's a festival and is welcoming lots of people and the noise level are increased we'd like the shots to be down during the event as well so that it's you know if there is a special event on saturday that goes on from three o'clock until nine then this chapter should be closed thank you thank you yeah good to get that clarification because of course just to remember you know it's it's sunday to thursday and it's 11 o'clock and then friday um with that kind of additional till midnight um all right so definitely no more questions for residents all right uh selena so did you want to come in on a point is that about the hours no okay another point you can come in uh thank you um it's just about the um uh shutters and the times they can come down um just like to draw uh members attention um and those on the call to the deregulation act for uh regulated entertainment um and such conditions uh can't be put where the deregulation comes into effect and that's between the hours of eight and eleven pm so the ask for having shutters down at eight or nine in the evening is not something that the committee um would be able to condition onto this premises license thank you so to confirm selena are you kind of saying it's it's it's yeah it's all or nothing type thing it would have to be it would have to be after 11 p.m if members were minded to put conditions about shutters thank you um very quickly marguerite and then i'm going to move on here and again from the applicant i'm really sorry i didn't understand that is it because of the the regulations in regards to um open space dining what what is it so no so it's the deregulation act 2015 um and the licensing act descriptions of entertainment amendment order 2013 which allows effectively businesses to be able to put on regulated entertainment without the licensing premises uh without sorry the licensing authority having a say and those uh they disapply those uh um they discipline the requirements of the licensing authority to put conditions or regulate how that goes ahead so between the hours of eight and eleven um there are certain things so that it relates to plays for example so um no license for example is required for performances between eight and eleven pm so they wouldn't we wouldn't be able to or members wouldn't be able to put a condition relating to putting uh shutters down where a license isn't required the um they can only talk to where the license would be in effect thank you for the um clarification selena uh with that in mind i'm going to move to uh bringing back um mr patel villa and any other kind of questions from our committee given what we've heard no no more okay well on that basis if there's nothing that although did you want to bring uh pam did you i don't know if you're there serena did you want to kind of bring back your kind of point from for the licensing officer on the hours did you want that clarified again because i think there was some sort of confusion over what's on page 77 and then what's on to what's on page eight so could you just clarify for us again please pam right the hours of operation currently in place for the on the premises license are films and the sale of alcohol films are monday to wednesday 1900 hours to 2300 hours and the sale of alcohol is 12 is 12 midday to 2300 hours monday to sunday the hours of opening are from 11 a.m to 23 30 a.m all week that's on the current premises license and that that's included the 30 minutes drink up time isn't it yes there we go right so then on page okay so the page eight is incorrect then page eight no i think that page what do you mean on the opening hours existing it says sorry yes there there um there is a slight typo where it's mentioning the zero one uh one one am yeah so that's that's an error that that is an error um that line and this to the following line are errors thank you okay so we would at this point then there's no other kind of further questions we would ask both residents and the applicant to stay online you've probably got time to go make yourselves a cup of tea we could be anywhere between 15 minutes and up to an hour as i wouldn't like to say either way so i would just say but you probably do have time to quickly go and uh have a refreshment and we but stay online and we will be back here in due course so if as councilors cole de silva and selena to go into the deliberation meeting room and if we just hold tight we'll be back with you soon thank you they're deliberating they're currently deliberating hello everyone this is jacqueline penicock from democratic services just to confirm that the committee will be ready to rejoin the meeting with the decision in around five minutes thank you hello everyone this is jacqueline penicock from democratic services just to let you know that the members are now rejoining the meeting thanks jacqueline do i have uh all my committee here just waiting for councilor cole to oh she's there yes yes you have been blocked by my uh my mouse uh counselor sorry applicant is here and our two reps are here as well thank you everybody um okay we have uh having carefully considered the papers and the submissions by made by all of the parties both orally and in writing uh the subcommittee has decided to grant the variation application as set out in the amended hours and licensable activities on page eight of the report pack condition 15 as agreed with the licensing authority is also agreed whilst members understood and empathize with residents concerns the lack of direct evidence upon the contentions about this venue and how the licensing objectives would not be promoted limited the steps members should take ultimately the licensing subcommittee was satisfied that the application as amended with respect to the hours to bring them within policy and the agreed conditions largely addressed those concerns and did so in a way which was appropriate and proportionate but members encourage residents if there are any noise complaints that they wish to raise associated with this or a licensed premises to engage with their local councillors and to raise and or raise the issue with the relevant channels such as the noise nuisance team and report on via the council's website um so on that note so we have to say thank you very much to everybody for coming online this monday evening thanks very much to our licensing officer team thank you very much to the committee um and on that note we say thanks uh good night and thank you very much for attending thanks everybody good night thank you good night everyone right leave it at that take care darling see you later bye bye [BLANK_AUDIO]