Joint Health Overview & Scrutiny Committee - Thursday, 17th October, 2024 4.00 pm
October 17, 2024 View on council website Watch video of meetingTranscript
Transcript
and North East London Joint Health and Overview and Scrutiny Committee. For those of you who may not know me, I am Councillor Robbie Mazur, London Borough of B So this is a hybrid meeting. So can I start off please with introducing members who are in the chamber. So please, can you just announce your name and where your position is within this meeting, please? I'm Councillor Nihil Chavarria, Councillor for Bmoor, Barking and Deganham Council. Thank you. We need to get the microphone on from there. So it's like the Dragonite staff car. Just amazing. I'm Councillor Sonny Brough from Redbridge, represent Newbury Ward, member of the Health Committee in Redbridge and chair of the Policy Development Health Committee in Redbridge. My name is Alex Ewings. I'm the Associate Director of Ambulance Operations from the London Ambulance Service here in North East London. Hi everyone, I'm Councillor Dr Kaz Risby from Epping Forest District Council, also the cabinet portfolio holder for Community Health and Wellbeing, also practicing as a GP in West Essex. Hi, I'm Councillor Paul Robinson from London Borough of Barking and Deganham. I also chair the Health Scrutiny Committee in Barking and Deganham as well. Good evening, I'm Councillor Marshall Vance. I'm the Essex County Councillor representing Essex residents today. Good evening everyone, I'm Councillor Beverley Brewer. I am chair of Health Scrutiny for the London Borough of Redbridge. Sorry, would you like to, would you like to introduce yourself? I know we're slightly late in starting so you've come at an appropriate moment. [inaudible] Richard, Swede and I represent the London Borough of Waltham Forest and I apologise for lateness, got stuck on a bus in some quite serious traffic. I know we've had some IT issues so that's fine. So we do have some people on Zoom, as I mentioned this is a hybrid meeting so I don't know if we can see the people on Zoom. Can we have an introduction from the people on Zoom? Good evening, or afternoon Councillors. I'm Zina Etheridge, I'm the Chair, sorry not the Chair, I'm the Chief Executive of the ICB and I also have my colleague Jo Moss with me. Afternoon, I'm the Chief Strategy and Transformation Officer for the ICB. Thank you. Okay, I'll introduce myself. I'm Paul Calaminas, I'm Chief Executive at North East London Foundation Trust. Hello, I'm Fiona Wheeler, Deputy Chief Exec and Chief Operating Officer at BHIUT. I'm Henry Black, I'm the Chief Finance Officer for the ICB. Thank you. Can I, hang on a minute. Sorry. James is basically first meeting, so it's tricky to get around the way the system works, so he's doing amazing. Okay, so I think we've completed all the introductions, so just as some house notices, can we please switch off any mobiles or any other electronic devices, and in the event of the evacuation, alarm sounding, please make your way down the staircase to the meeting point which is at the flagpoles as you came into the chambers or as you came into the council building. So, again, for those of you who don't really know me, I try to keep my meetings very precise, so if presentations and questions we can keep very concise, so that we do have an opportunity to scrutinize properly, so that's how I operate my meetings and there's nothing more to really say about that. So, the next item is apologies for absence, which I've got Councillor Christine Smith, Councillor Julie Wilks, for which I am substituting, Councillor Robbie Mazir, Councillor Brett Jones, I believe Councillor Mohamed Javed is substituting. Are there any other apologies that we are aware of? Okay, that's fine, that should be recorded in the minutes. Disclosure of interests on any agenda item, that's fine. So, the next item is the previous minutes held on the 25th of July, 24 page 5, are we happy to agree those minutes? Yeah, okay, so that's fine, so at some point during the meeting I'll sign those minutes. So, we now move on to the first main item of business, which is agenda item 5, the health update, which is basically the whole of the agenda, page 9 to 74, so can we have this presented please? Good evening, Chair. If it's all right with the committee, both Fiona Wheeler from BHIUT and Archana Mathur, who isn't able to make herself heard on Zoom, so has just joined me, have to leave at 5 o'clock, which was notified in advance. So, if it's all right with you, I would suggest that we take Fiona's update first, which is on BHIUT, followed by specialised services, because as I say, both of those participants have to leave at 5 o'clock. Yeah, that's fine with me, absolutely fine. Okay, so should we start with Fiona if that's all right and BHIUT? Thank you very much. Thank you, Chair. I'd like to present to you all a brief overview of the performance at BHIUT, that's Queen's Hospital, Rumford and King George Hospital. I think it's probably appropriate to start with a performance update around our emergency department, our A&E departments, and in the news you will notice that A&E departments are extremely busy and have been throughout the summer. August and July were one of our busiest months ever, and however I am very pleased to say that we've remained reasonably robust in terms of performance and the four hour target for our A&E departments for all types, that includes urgent care patients, was at 78.9%. That is a really good standard of care for the majority of patients who attend our A&E departments. However, I do know that, despite all of the best efforts from the staff at both of our hospital sites, I think we recognise that still far too many patients wait too long for assessment, diagnosis and treatment, and in particular during the busiest times, we have found it difficult to get patients out of our A&E departments into beds within the four hour target. So, on the one hand, I'd like to, you know, really to reinforce to you that all the efforts of the hospital are going into making sure emergency care is prioritised, and that is borne out in some of the figures, however, also to recognise the vast amount of work that we still have to do. Most of that patient waiting happens in our corridors and it's become a sort of a term used loosely in the NHS now around corridor care, but I think what's most important to explain here is that one of the biggest reasons for corridor care, particularly at Queen's Hospital, is the fact that the department was built for 120 patients a day and regularly sees just over 300. And so, in a physical way, we do need to modernise, we do need to improve and I think at any given time I'd be very happy at some point to come back and explain and show you our plans for improvement and reconfiguration. The bill for the reconfiguration at Queen's is estimated to be around 35 million, and we have been, along with anyone who will help us, lobbying at every level within the NHS for the green light on funds to support some of that reconfiguration work. Most importantly, that will provide much needed capacity for patients who attend who don't need to be admitted to a bed, and what we call same day emergency care can provide much greater volumes of work and patient care and diagnosis without the need for admitted, admitting patients into bed. So, a much needed development, and something that we are really pushing hard to get underway as soon as is possible. And I would like to mention I note our LAS colleagues are in the chamber. And I recently received our recent parliamentary award around the improvement work that was undertaken at King George's to reduce an ambulance hand over times. And we all know that ambulance hand over times are key to ensuring that a the ambulances can collect from their homes and wherever they have fallen ill. And, but secondly, key to hospitals taking over the ongoing assessment and care of patients who are brought to our A&E departments in ambulances so a really good prestigious award for both LAS and for the King George team, and something to celebrate after what was a really hard winter last year and lots and lots of good work going into that. It would be remiss of me to not mention the mental health pathways in terms of delivery of emergency care to patients who who present with medical as well as mental health issues. And during the month of August 331 patients were referred to our A&E departments through a mental health pathway either through LAS or otherwise. And one of our areas of priority for winter and actually for now, has got to be to continue to work collaboratively with our ICB colleagues and with our partner in delivering mental health care, NELFT, and I know Paul is here and will will be more than happy to talk very eloquently about all the work they're doing around improving mental health care. And, but one of the areas we're focusing on as well is to create physical capacity within both our sites at King George and Queens, and some dedicated space for patients with mental health presentations to improve safety, patient experience and appropriate places for patients to wait for whatever element of care they're waiting for whilst under the care of the A&E department. And again, going back to the capital that is real priority for the system and for BHRUT. And we know that winter's coming. It doesn't feel like the numbers have stopped during the summer and so our next focus our current focus is to really try to make sure that we optimise all of the out of hospital pathways with our partners in primary care, community care and other healthcare provider sectors, and to make sure that we optimise the receipt assessment, diagnosis and treatment of all patients that come through an emergency pathway. And linked to that will be making sure patients are provided with safe and well organised discharge from hospital to create the much needed capacity for new admissions on a daily basis. And we're currently undertaking a perfect week with BHRA, social care and community colleagues in order to really co-design some of the ways through some of the problems that we encounter when trying to discharge patients from hospital. So, lots and lots of examples of collaborative work and a really motivated team. We did do last winter together very well and we've got lots and lots to build on, but lots of connections that we already can rely on to support better patient care during the winter months. And I'll just move on briefly to our elective or planned care scenario. We have a very high waiting list still for planned care. And although it is in a downward trend and we have made some real improvements over the last 12 months, about 89% of the people waiting on our waiting list need to come to an outpatient appointment as opposed to our waiting for surgery. And so of the total 66,000 and a half patients on the waiting list, about 1,400 are waiting for some kind of admitted operation. The rest of them are waiting for our patients and so lots of work going on to increase or improve the time it takes to wait for an outpatient appointment and to provide better care quicker to patients referred from primary care. Lots and lots of opportunities for shared care and for improvements in pathways and we're working with that in our interface meeting with our primary care colleagues where we discuss joint issues, joint problems between the two parts of the healthcare system, and hopefully design better ways of working together that are more streamlined for patients and reduce all sorts of opportunities for waste and activities that aren't valuable in patient care terms. I have undertaken on the last few months many opportunities around getting higher volumes of patients through, sorry just a sec, higher volumes of patients through our Saturday clinics, through high volume operating lists and that all end up reducing the number of patients that have waited over a year for either an operation or an outpatient appointment. And that is a well established program at BHIUT which we plan to continue. Moving on to money, I'm sure you're all fully aware of the current financial scenario within the NHS and we are currently working with a deficit of 18.2 million at the end of August, which is about 9 million averse to plan which is a staggering amount of money at this part of the year. The added burden we have going forward is the ongoing cost of winter, of winter care, and the system being overwhelmed with activity leading to, in some cases unplanned expenditure. However, we have a good program of work around financial recovery. We are well connected with our ICB colleagues and other provider trusts, and we are working through a number of programs to maintain financial resilience and maintain our current spending plan, according to our year end forecast. So, lots to do, lots of difficult situations to discuss in the future, but lots of connectivity with our teams and our partners in the ICB. I'd like to finish, if I may, on cancer before just talking about a couple of strategic areas. Our cancer targets are working well. Our 62 day performance was 74.8% which is short of the 85% target but we are seeing, diagnosing more and more patients every month. Our recent opportunity to open two community diagnostic centres, one in Barking and one forthcoming in Horn Church at St. George's Hospital will deliver 75,000 additional scans, and that's a real cause for celebration across the NHS and will be instrumental in helping us diagnose more patients quicker and particularly on cancer pathways. I would like to mention before I go, a couple of opportunities. The aging well unit at St. George's Hospital is due to open in the next three weeks to patients and that will be focusing on providing aging and frailty care for patients who could otherwise be treated outside the hospital environment. And our aim is to reduce the amount of frail and elderly people who attend A&E as the first point of call for health care. And that will be run and co-designed with our GP colleagues and we're hoping to really embed that in the community and make a real difference to our A&E departments. In other news, our Daisy ward, which is our rehabilitation ward post stroke, recently received gold ward accreditation, and we are currently moving that ward back to the King George site to combine it with some of the other work we're doing around King George's around getting patients well and ready to go home after after illness. I think I will pause there, because I'm probably out of time. Thank you. Thank you very much Fiona. I know you have to leave at five so are there any questions from the chamber so I'll take, sorry I can't remember names but I'll just point sorry for being rude. Thank you Fiona for a very comprehensive report and my question was specifically around the waiting list and you mentioned in your verbal report about, you know, there's lots of work going into treating patients quicker, and in the actual documented report there's mention of innovative ways that the Trust has been, you know, utilising to keep us safe, would you mind sharing some of the strategies to help reduce waiting times. Certainly, I'll give you an example a very, very current example. And with the opening of the women's health hubs we recognise that women's health, and particular waiting lists for gynecology are the biggest in London, and the biggest in terms of health inequality across our system. And we've set up a group session, which can see up to 15 women at one time around continents and your gynecology, and those ladies currently wait around a year for a physio appointment, which is completely unnecessary. And through a group session we can get on the front foot with regard to proactive treatment for those ladies and we're working through that at a rapid speed of knots, it will both reduce the 52 week waiters, it provides better care for women, and provides quicker access to appropriate health care. That's just one example I know we're short for time, and at any point in the future if people want to come and hear about all the work we're doing around that very comprehensive answer will be available. Thank you. Thanks so much for that update. I'm concerned about mental health patients waiting, I think it's 22 hours, we're still at that level, and I know we've talked about it a lot before, and you know you've been reporting that a lot of work is going on, but when are we going to really see improvements because obviously that's a dire situation for all concerned. Thank you. Thanks, Beverly. I appreciate that and I have colleagues on this call. Paul is here as the Chief Exec of Nelft and other colleagues from the system, and maybe, if I may, hand the answer to some of that to the system or to Paul for a more in-depth answer as opposed to the A&E version. Thank you. Chair, I think it's up to you whether or not you want us to talk to this question now, or when Paul does his update on Nelft. I just note that the item on specialised commissioning needs to get to... If I could ask a question from the Chamber, then perhaps we can switch over to Paul. Chair, just very briefly, the presentation on specialised commissioning, the presenter also needs to leave at five o'clock. So we have got an update from Nelft on mental health. Okay, let's go to the presentation then. Yeah, thanks. Hi, everybody. My name is Archa. I'm Director of Specialised Services and Cancer for North East London. Really good opportunity to bring you up to speed with the delegation of specialised commissioning. I'm just going to give a very brief update on what is happening. The reason why the delegation is taking place, a little bit about clinical networks and really the whole rationale for it in terms of impacts on our patients, residents and populations. So specialised services are a broad range of services. There are a huge number of services and they range from some which are quite complex, some that are less complex, some for which there are large volumes of activity and some for which there are lower volumes of activity. Largely, they're driven by innovation, research, new clinical practice and the such like. And they're delivered by hospitals for which they have expert training, equipment and so on and so forth. As we know with these innovations, demand for these services is rising. These services are costly and aligned with our population growth. It's a really important function that statutorily is moving from NHS England to the ICBs. It's a large amount of money as well. Nationally, it's about 15 per cent of the budget and for NHS, Nell ICB, it's about 20 per cent. The change is really happening so that the ICBs are able to look at the totality of those clinical pathways for patients. Right from an intervention, early intervention and prevention in primary care right through to the care and treatment of patients within our acute hospitals. At the moment, with the commissioning with NHS, that has been less. There are less opportunities to be able to do that simply because of proximity to those populations. So the benefits really are allowing us to take a holistic view about the quality of care that we're providing, ensuring that we've got really good access and looking at all of the finances in one hit really in totality. So that is specialised pathways and non specialised pathways all in the round. Associated with the delegation of the actual services, there's also joint commissioning of what we call clinical networks. And these are mandated networks of clinicians. The networks are hosted within our clinical within our providers. And they are really a group of clinicians who work across organisations to help provide expert advice to us on how those services have been commissioned. They're also the people that help develop national service specifications that we all must adhere to and also provide help and support in terms of planning, developing metrics for success and so on and so forth. So it's a really good opportunity for us to work together more closely with our clinicians within these networks. There are other slides that go into a bit more detail about some examples of these. And I draw your attention to the main priorities for specialised services that we have in North East London. They are HIV, liver and hep C, cardiology, renal, sickle cell, neurosciences and complex urogyny. These are all pathways for which we have significant pressure within our system and really need to think about how we provide that care, both upstream within primary care and early intervention and also within our hospitals as well. There are some examples of that work. For example, with HIV, a lot of work on implementing opt out testing within our emergency departments in increasing early diagnosis and so on and so forth. The final slide goes into a little bit more detail about HIV as well. But there are but there are many examples which I'm really happy to talk about at another point in time. In terms of what happens next, there's a little bit of due diligence that needs to be undertaken. We've been doing this work for two years and it's been delayed in London to allow there to allow additional checks and balances for us to really make sure that we're ready to receive this function. So we need to undergo some more due diligence and and then take the formal agreements through our ICB governance, while simultaneously working through the actual work that impacts on our patients and our residents through the transformation work. I'll stop there in the interest of time, but happy to take any questions or queries. Thank you. Thank you. Is there any questions about that before she goes? Being in mind, we've got about four minutes. Yeah, go ahead. You spoke about early diagnosis and opt out testing, but in order to work towards that admiral goal, there would have to be quite wide availability of prep for people who are already infected and known to be infected. I wonder what measures you might be able to take towards this very laudable policy aim. I mean, I can't profess to be an expert in all things HIV. Unfortunately, I might have to take some questions and queries away. It's sufficient to say that those targets have been in place and we are absolutely committed to trying to meet them. The work on the opt out testing in our emergency departments has been really, really exceptional. Fiona will attest as well that in BHIT, they've actually been really progressing with this. And there really haven't been that many issues with regards to prep and the such like. I guess the other thing to highlight about the treatment of HIV and the broader work associated with the delegation of specialized commissioning is our ability to link up much better with our local authority partners aligned to the sexual health strategy that's been developed as well. So I think all in all, that that's going to be a much better assurance all in the round as to how we reach those targets and goals that have been nationally set and determined. Thanks. Okay, so you can depart from your virtual interaction and we'll just go forward with the other presentations now, please. Thank you, Chair, and apologies. We're sharing one laptop because we were having some difficulties getting on to the Zoom link. So you've got some slides in your pack which give a general health update, which I'm obviously not going to talk through because you've got the slides in advance. If you bear with me for one moment, I will. Sorry, because we're switching between people. I'm immediately in front of me. And so the slide pack gives some general updates. It talks about where we are in recruiting chairs to our various NHS acute trusts in North East London. It describes the annual assessment of the NHS England to do of all integrated care boards and points to some further readings if anybody is particularly interested in that. It points to various new practices that we've opened across North East London recently, two of which are in outer North East London. They're really, really exciting developments. And if members haven't had an opportunity to see those practices or those centres as they are more generally, then we'd be happy to arrange for that to happen because they really are great developments. We thought the committee might be interested in some work that we've taken to our board recently looking across North East London at the range. And there is a very substantial amount of it of work on long term conditions. And so it gives you some examples of some of those. And again, points to our board papers, which have got some more detail in there. There are so many things in there that I am not an expert on any of them, but it gives you a quick summary across them. Various other things of note going on in the system we're coming to as part of the agenda, including the financial situation, which has already been talked about, our winter plan and various other specific updates. But that's kind of probably all I need to say from a general perspective. We've got an update to give you on some surgery specifications, which we can go straight into, or I can pause for questions. No, happy to go. Well, I've got one more question, then we go to the other presentations. Yeah, thank you very much. No, it's a very, very interesting report, and I did have sight of it before coming. And the thing that was most eye catching for me was the improving access for local people and the three new health facilities that have been set up. The one in Ilford Exchange particularly was something that I noticed firsthand at the site of the old M&S, which has been closed down. So as I was going through the exchange with my little boy, getting some bigger mix, I saw a really brand spanking shiny new building or signage around there. And the questions that I had were, you know, I think it's fantastic to use kind of space, which otherwise wouldn't wouldn't have been, you know, having a leaseholder. But as far as kind of like the decision to set up a health facility within the shopping centre, what form of sort of scoping exercise or what sort of kind of research had been done as to whether that was an appropriate site? And the second question, which is attached to that is lots of research shows that people when they're out shopping, they consider it therapeutic in its own right. And they don't really want to be disturbed and bombarded with health promotion or public health material, which, you know, is something which has been proved over the country. And as for the actual kind of longevity and the legacy of this health centre, do we have an idea as to how long the lease is or what sort of kind of timeframe we'd expect this to still be kind of up and running for? Thank you very much, Councillor. So there's a lot of detailed questions there. I think in terms of this particular centre, the original idea for it grew out of a vaccination centre. And you might recall thinking back to the pandemic, that we worked really hard to put vaccination centres at the heart of the community to build trust, break down barriers, make it as easy as possible. I think everyone has gone behind getting a range of facilities and there's quite a wide range of different services using the Ilford Exchange. And there are across the country a whole range of different health centres, different health facilities that have been put at the heart of the community to make them accessible for residents. For instance, community diagnostic centres in Wood Green, for instance, there's a community diagnostic centre in the equivalent shopping centre to the Ilford Exchange. And so it is a technique that has worked pretty successfully in a range of places. It is not intended to be a kind of flash in the pan presence in the Ilford Exchange. But your precise questions on length of lease and things like that, I'm afraid I don't have the details to handle. OK, thanks very much. Let's go to the next presentation, I guess. Afternoon. And so I was just going to briefly speak to the slides. I won't repeat all of the detail that's contained in the pack. But this was really just to give the committee an update on a technical piece of work that I'm leading at the moment with colleagues across the system to review the specifications that we have for a number of our surveys. And as part of that work, we think it's really important to engage with local residents and patients. And so we have been doing a piece of work to just make sure that we've listened to and understood from local residents and patients what matters to them when they're accessing surgical services. And we are still at the point of finalising those specifications that sit across seven of the different surgical specialties. And I think it's really important for the committee to note that there will be no changes to the location from which services are provided. This is a piece of technical work that we're doing in the background that just assures us as commissioners that the providers that we are contracting with have the appropriate range of services. And I'll focus on delivering the outcomes that we know matter and clinically, but also socially for our patients. I'm very happy to take further questions if anybody has any. Thank you. OK, thanks. I think what I'll do is go through all the presentations and then have questions at the end of the session. So whoever the next presentation is from. I think we're on to... It would be helpful when matters are referred to, if the page numbers in the pack could be referred to. Thank you, Councillor Sweden. I'm sure we can do that. I think the next part in the pack, and I'm sorry, I'm working off a very small screen because we're using my laptop as the one to access, is the winter update. I think it's on page 22 of the slides and it's Fiona Ashworth who's going to present that. Thank you. Thank you, Zeena. So this is really a high level position of where we are in terms of our winter planning. So last year we did a really comprehensive piece of work on winter to ensure that our hospitals and our community were safe and able to take patients in the most appropriate way. And from that, what we did by the end of the year, we were able to describe over 78% of our population, our patients attending, received the care that they needed within four hours, which was a really significant change. And the paper lays us out. We did a huge amount of work with our ambulance colleagues, with community colleagues, with our place colleagues, to ensure that actually the pathways for patients were located correctly, and we did a huge amount of work on communicating. For this year, the winter plan remains a priority for the system and its partners. We have a new set, if you like, of asks from the national team to keep our patients safe and give good quality care. And where we are currently is we have had two events. We had an event in April and then a further one in June. And by our chief people officer, there was a third event actually in September. So really bringing the whole system together to think about how we provide safe and sustainable care over the winter period. So, in addition to the acute space, we are looking at several areas, and I think it's worth drawing those out. And it's really important to keep our population well, and so we are maximizing the winter vaccination campaign and that is very widely noted right across our system. We want to ensure that we keep our patients safe, so we have done a piece of work around patients with complex and long term conditions so that their care is optimized. To patients, for example, with respiratory or cardiac disease. And as Fiona talked about earlier, we're also doing some work around preventing attendance by having patients access to GPs and also 111 and pharmacists. And then at system level, we are also looking at discharge as a priority. So how do we make sure that as a patient is ready for discharge, they are discharged from the acute provider into a community facility or to home. Last year, we talked about a system coordination center and the function of the coordination center is that we've got a real whole system visibility of where there is pressure, but also where there is capacity across our systems. This is both outer and inner Northeast London, and that has really matured over the last year really giving us a sense of actually how we work together in partnership, particularly where there is pressure. And then finally, just around what we call the 10 high impact interventions. These are just measures of actually how mature processes and the system are in making sure that we've got the right things in place for our population and our patients. We are in the second year of the UEC program, and what we've drawn out in summary on page 24, I think, is around how we are planning to keep patients well and safe. And we've summarized that so you can see the priorities for us. So in terms of next steps, we are continuing to develop our winter plan. We have an event with our chief operating officers right across the system for acute and mental health. In the next days, we are looking at our children and young people in terms of their needs. We are of course anticipating and observing any impact of GP collective action, which at this point we have seen little impact at this point, but also recognizing we have pressures in terms of our flow around local authority budgets. And finally, just to say we do ask the JSC to help and support us with all our endeavors for the right care and winter campaign to ensure that our population and our patients are vaccinated this year to keep them well. And also to prevent obviously a tendency into urgent emergency care, so that we can prevent overflow and challenge in relation to some of the areas around patient groups. Thank you, Councillors. Thank you. So can we have the next presentation, please? I believe that will be Finance Councillor from Henry Black. Thank you very much. Hello, everyone. My name is Henry Black. I'm the Chief Finance and Performance Officer for Northeast London ICB. I will talk you through just briefly, we've put one slide, which should be page 27 in your pack, which gives a snapshot of the financial position at month five. Fiona briefly mentioned the BHIUT financial position as being extremely challenged earlier, and that is the case across the whole of Northeast London, but across the NHS and public services as a whole. So we, as at month five, which is the August performance data, we had an 87.2 million deficit, which is about 53 million variance from plan, so adverse variance. This is a position which has been fairly stable throughout the year in the sense that we have had a posted deficit cumulatively every month. At month five, we have seen a slowing down of that variance, which is good news. So the financial position is beginning to stabilise, which is a reflection of all the hard work that is being put in across all organisations as we work towards our financial recovery. We do have early sight of the month six numbers as well. That's the September numbers. They haven't yet been through internal board governance for the organisations, but there does appear to be a continued improvement in the run rate and a slowing down of the deficit. But the position continues to be extremely challenged. So the main drivers of that, we had ongoing industrial action, which was a particular issue last financial year, less of an issue now. And thankfully, most of the industrial action disputes have been progressed, most but not all. And there is a 7.6 million cost to the system for the cost of industrial action. A further million pounds, roughly, on the cyber attack that took place in the south-east of London and that had a knock-on impact on some of our providers, including BART. The main drivers of the pressures, though, continue to be the fact that we started the year with a very, very challenging set of cost improvement programs. We have about almost 300 million of assumed savings to be delivered within our overall system envelope. And so that was about 5.5% of our total turnover. So that has been very challenging and there have been some areas where that has not been possible to deliver in full, partly because of the challenges around industrial action. Other pressures include high occupancy within mental health beds, which has resulted in a higher than expected use of private sector beds, which are very expensive. We have very extreme pressure in the renal dialysis, which is a specialized commissioning or a specialized service. Again, very expensive. And we have had just general pressures on bank staff for where we have additional acuity of patients on the wards and corridor care, which is not good for patients, but also very expensive. The main areas that we are targeting to reduce the run rate pressures are around use of high expensive premium agency. And it's good to see that we have made significant inroads in that we still have a high rate of agency, but it is significantly lower than it was in previous years. And that is the key area that we need to work on to reduce our overall pay bill and work is ongoing between the chief people officers, the chief nursing officers and the chief medical officers to deliver that. So that's the position as at month five, and I'll pause there. Okay, thanks very much. Happy to move on to the next presentation. Thank you, Councillor, and I believe we're next up, we're due to hear from London Ambulance Service who I think are there in the chamber with you. Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Councillors. It's lovely to be here with you this evening. I'm Alex Hughes, I'm the Associate Director of Ambulance Operations for the London Ambulance Service in North East London. And so I'm going to give you a quick run through of the report that we provided it from starts on title page London Ambulance Service performance report in the pan. So there's definitely some positive news to talk about this evening, and we've got some opportunities, but there are also some challenges to recognise as well. We are the busiest UK Ambulance Service. We take over two million 999 calls per year, and we are the only provider that covers pan London, and I'm here today because I'm responsible for ambulance operations in North East London. So that's obviously what I'm going to talk to you about this evening. So our response times for category one, which are our immediately life threatening patients and cat two patients, which is slightly less, but still emergency and urgent, have improved in the month leading to August. And it's really pleasing to note that of late particularly, the North East London category two number is predominantly below the London mean, which is really good because that's definitely an improved position. Our hear and treat number is also consistently good at about 20%, which puts us first or second against other UK Ambulance Services and that's the patients that we can successfully deal with over the phone, give them advice, referrals and essentially close the 999 call without the dispatch for an ambulance, but the patient still gets really good governed high quality care from our expert clinicians. So our cat two performance, certainly for August, remained under the 30 minute agreed target at 29 minutes eight, which was excellent. But I do want to recognise that we do have challenges in certain boroughs in North East London, there is a performance gap of about 15 minutes between the outer North East London boroughs which do better compared to some of the inner boroughs, so sitting Hackney Tower Hamlets, etc. And what we are doing about that is focusing more staff into those areas, and we have a laser focus on a daily and a weekly basis on practical terms such as you know production and management of our people resource. And so I do want to recognise to the committee that September has been a difficult month for us, our category two response time went up to 40 minutes. But that was still below the London figure of a 42 minute mean for the London Ambulance Service across all areas. As it's already been mentioned, we are continuing to work with all our partners across the ICS area to particularly to reduce delays in handing over patient care at hospitals, and has already been mentioned by we mentioned again because it's great news. We were joint meetings with colleagues from King George's Ilford for the NHS parliamentary awards, so just want to mention that again. The percentage of patients that we conveyed to hospital is consistent, there isn't actually a target or a commission target for this, but it's about 50% of the patients that we see face to face we conveyed to hospital. Now, I want to distinguish that from just being one in two of all patients because it's not because we take about 7,999 calls a day, a number of those patients are successfully transferred across to 111, where they have hear and treat we do our own successful treat figures as well. And then all the patients we see face to face it's about 50% which is really consistent so it's quite a good figure and just to recognise as well that the patients that we see are sicker and are more complex as well. But clearly we're using as many pathways and other referral avenues that we can to safely keep patients out of ED wherever that's possible. And just something else really just about our people in our workforce. Just over the last 12 months we introduced a new concept of team based working. So if you think of our compare it to the fire service where everyone I think would know that they work as a watch. So, red watch blue watch etc. We now do something very similarly, internally with the London Ambulance Service and the real benefit of that is that our teams will come on shift together, they'll be on shift with their manager every day. They have dedicated training time built into their own. And there's lots of science behind why that is good for people and then obviously good for patients because we learn together we train together. And ultimately, it's the teams of ambulance crews that are going out to patients together, day in day out. So I think, you know, on reflection as well of that we are an excellent learning organisation internally where we were an early implementer of the patient safety framework, which is relatively new in the NHS we're an early implementer so we're well into that now. But I think one of the reflections and as has been mentioned, it's about what we can do better with external partners to learn across the system, not just internally but looking externally as well. Finally, just a plug, if I may, the BAFTA award winning series BBC Ambulance starts again tonight on BBC One at nine o'clock. And I'm really proud to say it features the London Ambulance Service related series so please do give that watch, it features staff and patients from North East London. Thanks very much. We've got next. Thank you chair, it will be Paul Calaminas giving the NELFT updates. Thank you. Thank you very much. So, this is in the pack from page 41. And really, we've, we've put this in reflecting all the work in both mental health and community health collaboratives. If maybe I start with mental health. Obviously I won't go through everything that's in the pack but maybe if I begin with some of the pressures in the mental health crisis services and mental health crisis pathway. So Fiona already made mention of some of the experiences of some of our patients in emergency departments. And Henry too made mention of the fact that we are needing to use additional beds on a daily basis to be able to provide care for all of the outer North East London residents who need admission to hospital. Today we have 51 people in additional beds to give you a scale of the numbers that we are talking about. And we are not in a position where we have a lot of people blocking our beds. So sometimes you hear the kind of, you know, you know, sometimes what's going on is that people, it's difficult to admit people because there are lots of people waiting for discharge. Certainly, we're not in that, generally speaking, we are not in that position. What we are seeing is a lot of people presenting into mental health services unfortunately in crisis for the very first time. So on our latest audit of that, 70% of the people presenting to emergency departments in crisis were new to mental health services. And very sadly, usually presenting in huge amounts of social crisis relating to family, income, housing and employment and feeling really frankly at the end of their tether. In outer North East London, that is over the last few months also, sorry, excuse me, affecting more women than men. And so we have seen a real increase in that level of distress amongst women in the population. We do have plans in place to try and address this. One of the key elements of the plan actually is alongside the physical space that Fiona mentioned is to create a mental health, essentially a mental health emergency department space on the Goodmains Hospital site. Because that would, that really would help us bring people into a different sort of environment, do more detailed assessment work away from the emergency department space. And put in place plans, you know, really help us try and put in place plans to work with those people. Clearly in the more medium term, or as quickly as we can, but I think in the more medium term realistically, we need to be really trying to engage and work with people before they reach the point of crisis. Because there are clear issues with that number, that percentage of people arriving in mental health crisis not being in touch with mental health services in any way, shape or form. For folks who are in touch with us, you know, the use of that type of crisis is much, much, much less frequent. We do also have a new crisis line offer, so dialling NHS 111 and then asking for option two will bring everyone through to a mental health crisis line that is staffed 24 hours a day with mental health professionals and can also link people to their local crisis response teams or community health, community mental health teams. And we have also in the last few months opened additional mail bed capacity on the Goodmay site, along with some additional section, what is called section 136 capacity, which has certainly helped, particularly I think the experience at King George's A&E, with making sure that we're able to offer space on the Goodmay site for people being brought in by the police. And that's in conjunction with a new advice line we've opened for police colleagues to really try and enable them to get advice from a mental health professional at the point of deciding whether or not they're going to use that section of the mental health act. If you don't mind, I would just like to also pick out from the mental health side of this presentation, the work that's been done around assertive community treatment and re-looking at some of the approaches to that. That's a national piece of work. It follows on from the very, very tragic incident involving students and a caretaker in Nottingham and a service user called Valdo Callicane. And across the country, we have been doing a piece of work on, you know, the group of people within the community for whom we need to engage more assertively. That so far has led to some, you know, some analysis of our caseloads, some gap analysis of that. And we are now working up with our service users, with our patients, the response to that for local services. I did, if you don't mind sharing the mental health side, finally just want to just draw the committee's attention to the fact that within the collaborative, we actually have some priorities that are set by our patients. And I did just want to draw the committee's attention to that because they were really explicit attempts to make sure that we are focusing on things that really matter to people. And we are really trying to keep that out of the centre of the work we do. In terms of performance, I think the couple I would probably have picked out are also to note that particularly for out of North East London, the proportion of the population we're able to offer talking therapies to has really very significantly increased and we are really reliably able to offer a very prompt response to referrals there. People do in thousands, thousands of people self-refer into that service and it's available on phone, online and face to face. And then to note too that physical health checks, which is a hugely important part of the work of mental health services, given that the most severely mentally ill people in society tend to die 10 years younger than their peers at least, has really very, very significantly improved in out of North East London, such that we're now amongst the highest performing areas in the country. On the community health side, again, I won't repeat everything that's in the pack. I won't repeat everything that Xena alluded to in terms of long term conditions, because obviously there is a lot of work there. And I know it's been touched on already, but I really would just want to make sure that I mentioned the Ilford exchange, which has obviously been opened. St George's, which is due imminently to come online and also the opening of Bean Park the other day, the new health centre in Bean Park, which I think will be an important community resource. So that was really just to pick some highlights, Chair, from the report. Thank you, Chair. Our last update is on maternity, which would be given by Diane Jones, and I will swap places with her so that you can see her now. Hi there. Good evening, everybody. My name's Diane Jones and I'm the Chief Nursing Officer for the ICB. I'm just presenting the engagement that we did around our maternity services, looking at the case for change. So, what we saw was that we wanted to understand what were the changing needs of our population and the residents of North East London. And we knew that we could see that there was going to be an increase and we looked at that against our current maternity services. More importantly, we wanted to engage with the public to understand what was their experience of maternity services and what would they like to see in the future, whether it's for themselves or for others. So we did a piece of work around reaching out through to lots of our communities. We did focus groups and we also did online survey as well. Some of the key things we were asking was, is there a need to do something different based on your experiences? We had lots of respondents that came through and I think about 64 percent were people that have had a baby in North East London or family members of that individual. And then we had lots of feedback from staff as well. That piece of work helped us to shape, give us the answers we needed in terms of the case for change. So it helped to tell us that people knew that we needed to do something different. They wanted us to do something different and they understood why we might need to do something different based on the fact that we can see that our population is growing and that there's more demand on our maternity and neonatal services as well. So from that, we've taken information, we've looked at the numbers in terms of the current demand on services, the current types of ways that women and pregnant people are giving birth. And that's helping us to start to shape what could be the opportunities for how we deliver maternity services in the future. Some of the key things that we heard people say was that they wanted greater continuity in the antenatal period and the postnatal period. Quite often the birthing experience tends to be good, if not better, because they get one to one care whilst they're having the baby. What women find is that when they get to the postnatal period that they feel lost, they feel as though there's not enough support, particularly when it comes to breastfeeding. So some of the feedback that we've had is around breastfeeding support. It's been the handover, the transition with health visitors and also where you may have a child with extra needs, additional needs that may go into a neonatal unit. What's the support that they can be given? At this stage, what we're doing is sharing the case for change. We're sharing the engagement that we've done. And we're wanting to go forward with looking at what the opportunities are to change and reconfigure how we deliver maternity services so that we have the right care in the right place for our pregnant population. And that takes you to the end of our presentations. All right. Thanks, all of you who did give a presentation. Very informative. So I'm just going to open up to the committee in the chambers now who have any questions. Go ahead. Sorry. Thanks very much, Erin. And thank you to all of the presenters for really, really detailed reports and great verbal reports. So I'll just punch up my questions one by one. So the first one that I had was for Henry from a finance point of view. And Henry, you touched on your report that one of the key drivers behind the budget deficit was, or the overspending rather, was industrial action. And I believe the report relates to month five, which correlates to August. Industrial action as far as the junior doctor strikes was concerned. I think the last of them was on the second of July. So I wonder what sort of factors from the industrial action would have kind of led on to month five, which was August. And if you wouldn't mind giving us a bit more info about that. And then the second question was to Alex and great to see you here in the chamber. You touched on Alex about the performance gap for category two ambulances in inner London. So a city in Hackney and Tower Hamlets. And I do wonder if some of the 15 minute kind of delays that we see in those areas, whether they're sort of possibly related to the kind of 20 miles per hour speed restrictions that they've got on that side compared to where we are in Havering at the moment. So I would just be interested to know what some of the determinants behind the kind of increase in response times for CAT 2s are. And those are just my two questions. Thank you very much. And I'll be very quick because Councilor is right to note that there was no industrial action August the, the numbers that I provided with the year to date position for month one to five so the for the full year, up to August so the 7.6 million was, it was incurred earlier in the year but it's it's included in the total figures for the period, year to date so so that the deficit is not presented as the deficit in August, it's the year to date for the whole of the up to between first of April and 31st of August. Thank you, Councilor for your question. So I'm a paramedic by professional background and having worked around city in Hackney, Homerson, Camden, Islington, so I do know that it can be really challenging for our staff to get around those boroughs. And whilst I couldn't directly attribute it to 20 mile an hour zones or LTNs etc. It definitely is a challenge space to get around so yes I would say that just from a practical perspective. And that does certainly add to some of the difficulties that our teams face when getting around London, and in other areas as well. I know that we have a rotating chair but I mean I could suggest, if possible, in future, whether we would be able to go through the themes and ask questions as we go along, rather than having all of the information in one go. Because obviously then you're able to ask personal questions at the point onto that topic. So, and also I don't want to bombard everybody with all of my questions in one go. So I prepared my questions in advance in relation to the page references and how we will proceed. And so now I've got them all lined up which obviously doesn't feel very good. So, I mean, I can read them all out if you like, but probably they'll be forgotten about it, we get to the end. So I had, I did have questions about NHS England annual assessment of the Northeast London ICB starting on page 11 of the report, and I was disappointed to see that the ICB has failed to spend funds from the system development program, which is aimed at supporting GP practices and primary care networks. That was a big concern for me because I think our GPS need as much support as they possibly can get in these difficult times, and to think that there was money allocated that wasn't spent. So I'd like to know why. And I want to have some assurance please that the ICB will do more to support general practice and PCNs this year. And in relation to that, I also saw under again that same item there's been a 39% increase in 12 hour breaches and ED departments. I'd like assurance about that please, and what we can do to eliminate these very long waits. So I thought I'd ask these questions under that, and then move on to winter planning. Thank you. Chair, would you like me to come in and respond, pick up those two at this point? Yeah, please do. Thank you. So on SDF and primary care spending, Councillor Brewer, project funding and funding like SDF is a little bit like capital funding. It's not always within our gift to spend it within the year because sometimes projects start a little late, although I recognise your frustration. It is a little while since I read the full assessment of the ICB, so I'm really happy to take that question away and provide you with some more details in writing. On 12 hour waits in our emergency departments, you heard from Fiona earlier on about the challenges at the HIUT and you heard from Paul about the very high volume of demand for the mental health crisis pathway at the moment. We are seeing all the way across the system in North East London, but also in London as a whole that we are seeing this very challenging set of demands. Now, as is absolutely implicit in your question, that is really, really not what we want for our patients. Once we get to delays of that sort of length, there is significantly more risk of harm to those patients and some of those people are waiting for a health assessment. That is quite a small number overall and others are waiting for, you know, kind of other sort of physical health assessments. So all the way across the system, we are doing a lot of work on understanding the reasons for those and what else we need to do. We've got a system wide piece of work on flow through our hospitals and flow through our mental health trusts because the best way that we can deal with a lot of those delays is not what happens in ED per se, but getting the flow through hospitals working most effectively and coupled with ensuring that we're doing everything we can to prevent people from needing to go to our emergency departments in the first place. Some of the measures that Fiona talked about earlier on in relation to the winter plan are absolutely to tackle some of those long waits. I had some questions on winter planning as well. One was on the ambulance response times, I know we've discussed that a little, but I see there's a 30 minute target. Obviously, we would want to have 18 minutes for Class Review 2 response times, which are the national targets, so be grateful for some more clarity about when we can have more alignment with that. We have talked about, well, I did ask the question, but I haven't had an answer yet about emergency department waits for mental health patients, which currently stand at 22 hour averages and BHRUT. So I would like that to be picked up here now because that's obviously very concerning indeed. And also, I was concerned, my third question on winter planning, on page 25, there's a reference to commissioning beds from the independent sector to provide alternatives to mental health or hospital bedded provision. So could I ask for clarification about that, please? And I thought it was policy to reduce the use of independent sector beds for mental health. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor, I'm going to suggest that Fiona Ashworth picks up your question specifically about the winter plan, but Paul Calaminas comes in on the mental health questions, if that's all right. Thank you, Gina. I'll respond to the category 2 and ambulance offloads piece if that's okay to start with. So across North East London, we've made really significant improvements in our ambulance offloads in order to release those ambulances back to the community over the last year. So currently, in 45 minutes, we are delivering at about 60% of our patients being offloaded in that time. And whilst that isn't ideal, that has been quite a step change. And also, of course, Alex talked earlier about our performance about category 2 response, so that's actually ambulance being able to respond to patients still waiting in the community. So we have made some real inroads. What we are currently doing is working as part of winter planning and beyond to look at actually how we can continue to build on that. So, in relation to actually working as a system of actually where we may sign other patients to alternative pathways, but also working on expanding what actions we can take collectively to improve our position. In terms of next steps with that, we have Matthew Trainor, who is one of our chief executives, needs on a piece of work, looking at a more strategic solution, again, to enable a sustainable response to our ambulance, our ambulance provision, our offloads. And we work very closely with Alex, who's obviously in chambers at this time. And I'm happy to pause at that point. And perhaps if I could just say a couple of words on the mental health side. So you're quite right, Councillor, it is policy. Absolutely what we would all want to do is to not use additional private sector beds and make sure that people from out of office and in boroughs are treated in local beds. As I say, we are unfortunately using more private sector beds at the moment than we were a year ago. And that is being driven by demand in mental health crisis. We do, as I say, we do have some plans that we are enacting to try and help us address that. So, for example, we are right in the middle of opening an additional crisis house in the borough of Redbridge. That will give us some additional capacity to respond for people who are in crisis. And as I say, we are establishing a mental health crisis centre at Goodmays, which will give us an additional element of capacity too. But I suppose my hesitation is that if we continue to see people coming new into service in crisis for mental health, some of the factors behind using those additional beds and some of the factors behind waiting times in the department are going to be hard to, in the short term, to eradicate completely because it is that level of crisis presentation that is driving both the use of beds and some of the waiting time issues. The other thing I think I'd say about waiting times is that they do also often relate to the complexity of people as they come into the department. As I perhaps rather inarticulately tried to describe, there are a range of factors for people, both social factors and physical factors, as well as mental health factors, that we do have to work through or for and assess and work with each individual patient for. They can quite often, in all honesty, also be compounded by substance use. And so we do quite often find that by the time we have done a thorough piece of work to really assess and try and understand and work out what the right destination for somebody is, it can take some considerable amount of time. And of course, we don't want to do inadequate assessment work and we don't want to rush that because we can end up with people in mental health beds or under the Mental Health Act, when actually we could put some other plan and approach in place. So we really are working hard to try and reduce that amount of time. But as I say, some of those factors are really quite complex and some of this does rely actually on enough bed capacity and how we can create that. As I say, we do have plans in place. We are opening some of those additional crisis beds, but many of these people are new to service. Had two of the questions, one on mental health and one on maternity. That's OK. I just wondered, with the mental health, I welcome the work that the collaboration has done on this, but I can't see anything that's being delivered for learning disability and autism. When will this happen, please? Yes, I thank you very much for picking me up and that I should have talked about the work in learning disabilities. So I've obviously made reference in the report to a number of areas. This year, we have implemented our intensive support team for learning disabilities. So that is now up and running. We have also introduced a number of we've now got a couple of sensory rooms on the wards at Goodmay specifically for people with autism and learning disabilities. And we are just creating the capacity to create another one. And we also are in the position where we have now employed a set of key workers specifically to work in the community and into inpatient services with people with both autism and learning disabilities as part of the work to try and improve improve their quality of life and the quality of the service that the NHS offered them. And finally, we have also under this heading, and particularly thinking about physical health of people with a learning disability, being able to expand the offer into some of the residential and other accommodation for people with a learning disability in particular, that focuses on their physical health, helping them understand their physical health. And really with a view to try to make sure that all the health checks are completed and that people are getting timely access to physical health care. Thank you for that. That is, that is welcome. And I just wanted to ask with the maternity and neonatal presentation, when we'll have a timetable for the next step with the process. I'd like to ask for assurance that there'll be genuine consultation on any proposed changes, and that we will not have recommendations presented as a fait accompli. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor Brewer. As we've done with the case for change, we did actually go out to engage with our communities and clinical colleagues as well. So we, our intention is to absolutely do the same, if there are any changes that have been proposed that it will be based on engagement work and the feedback that we get from our public. Thank you so much. That is very welcome. I just wanted to say one thing to Henry, if I might. What is a run rate pressure? I don't know what that is under finance. Is it an overspend? I'd just be grateful because I don't know what it is. Thanks so much. And that's me finished. Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Councillor Brewer. Thank you very much for calling us up on using unhelpful non-plain English jargon. Yeah, it just means pressure on the ongoing costs of running the services effectively that are above plan. So it usually correlates with a high demand, peaks and troughs in demand. So yes, it just means an excess cost where there is excess demand and pressure on services. OK, thank you. I've got one more question from the chambers. Two more, actually. First of all, my apologies for late night. And I echo your comments. The presentations have been very informative. And I now come to Ilford Exchange. It's been mentioned twice this evening. I welcome it too. There's a positive feedback. I live in Ilford. I don't access any services there yet, but it's always welcome. But if there is a data available, please, that could be shared. This must have alleviated some of the pressure on local GP, certainly in my area. Do we have any data to how much? And in terms of the lease, I don't know how long that is. It's a good service. We want to continue it, especially if the data is positive. Thank you. Thank you very much, Councillor. I'm afraid I don't have the information available with me on the lease length. It's a bit too early for us to say what the impact on other services locally is, but we are very excited about the model. Very happy to share more information about Ilford Exchange when we have it. And indeed, if this committee would like to hear a bit more about the thinking behind the exchange, the model and early results, then we are really happy to come back and do that as an appropriate point. And what about the lease? Yeah. Would that be sent to us? Thank you. Thank you very much, Councillor Marshall-Vence from Essex. I wonder if I could just go back over a couple of points that have been touched on, but just to allude a little bit more, page 24. I think we've already talked a little bit, and Councillor Brewer has talked a little bit about the looking forward to the winter of 24, 25, and you have got three ambitions that you've put in the pack. And while we are talking about reducing the 12-hour wait for emergency departments, another ambition is, of course, to do the 78% of patients being admitted, transferred, and discharged within four hours. It's good stuff, but can you tell us how? It's all right to say this is what our achievements or what our ambitions are. Could you tell us how you're intending to do that? While you're thinking about that, could I just also come to Henry? Henry, thank you very much for the financial overview as well. My initial reaction to a deficit of the amount that you're talking about, it kind of spurs some thoughts in me about how well we are going to be able to perform and provide for our patients, given that you don't have the money. So I just wondered if you could explain on item two that you said there about efficiency and cost improvement plans, providers reported efficiency slippages of 14.9 million, and Bart's and Homerton are expecting to continue with slippages of 27.7 million. Can you explain why those cost efficiencies have not been met, or just give us a little bit more information as to why they're that? Because when I read that, as I said, when I read that Bart's are still continuing to, by the end of the year, still to be in the deficiency of 27 million, it makes me wonder whether or not that's really going to have an impact on patients and your ability to be able to fund things for patients. Thank you very much. Let's just pick up the winter planning questions first Fiona. Thank you, thank you for the questions, really helpful. So overall, as Fiona Wheeler, who was on the meeting earlier, from a BHRUT perspective, and in partnership with PLACE and community and other providers, have a well established programme of work, which then links into the kind of Northeast London system overview piece. Right, so I'll just break that down a little bit, so describing the how. So the first piece is really around the preventative piece, linking into prevention of conveyance to hospital by having the right facilities available to patients in the community. But also, in addition, some of the work that's happening within the emergency department, around staff, their processes, and how they actually work incredibly hard to move patients from coming through ED, and actually moving into what we call SDEC or same day emergency care processes. What does that mean for a patient? What that means for a patient is, instead of sitting waiting in emergency department for hours for assessment, etc, they are often either referred either by the London Ambulance Service or indeed with the BHR space, the East of England Ambulance Service, or GPs into an assessment unit, which is set up with diagnostics, pathways and access to specialists. So really getting patients to the right place first time. The second area that again Fiona talked about earlier was around pathways into services such as clinics, etc, which they have done a huge amount of work on. The third area is the front end of the hospital, which is obviously where patients usually enter, is impacted if you're not flowing the back end of the hospital. So that real focus upon how teams work together, including social care, local authority, etc, to discharge patients on time. Fiona did talk about the pressures in the BHR around corridor care, etc, but a real focus from the BHR UT team with partners in targeting those areas of flow. So getting that efficiency and focusing on patient needs. So really detailed hospital and organisational flow programmes supported by Place. With all those things we talked about the LAS perspective and I think the St George's facility that we talked about earlier is a real focus on frail patients. So in the outer North East London area, there's a higher proportion of older patients. So that's St George's facility and also the use of our Urgent Response Service and virtual wards. So again that focus on patients in the right place at the right time. So those are some of the details of the work. I think just again to bring to life what impact that's had. We know that Type 3 patients, so patients who have minor injuries or minor illnesses, between 98 to 99% of those patients have consistently been seen within four hours over the last year to 18 months. And patients are told, as we call Type 1 or more or sicker patients, that has improved to in the region about 58 to 59% within four hours. And in August, as Fiona articulated, 78.9% of patients coming into the BHR UT hospitals have been seen in four hours, which is actually one of the best performing organisations coming from a very difficult place two years ago. So we are doing the same things across inner North East London with Bart's Health and also our Homerton colleagues. And again in Homerton, they are delivering the plan that they had delivered a trajectory for. All this is not in isolation and that real importance of system support but also partnership support should remain consistent and linked across the pillars, the priority pillars which are called out. I hope that's helpful detail. Thank you. That's excellent. Just wait for Henry. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. And thank you, Councillor Vance, for the question, which is a very good question and a very fair question. And I guess it illustrates the pressure and the balance that the service is having to make and the difficult decisions that are having to be made every day. And that balance between finance and performance, if you like, in terms of being able to deliver the high quality services that we continue to do. We obviously have a, we have a statutory duty to break even and to not to overspend the allocation we're given. But the fact is that where we have significant clinical and patient safety challenges it patient safety will always come first and will always mean that there are times when, when it is difficult to live within the budget that we set. So, if I just take the kind of overall broader economic context, the NHS has received about approximately a 1% above inflation increase which means that austerity has hit public services across the board but the NHS has largely been protected that's been the narrative from the government. The fact is though that a 1% above inflation increase in funding, compares to what has historically been much closer to three or 4% above inflation allocation of funding so, so the NHS is obviously continuously meets additional demand on a day to day basis and, and it becomes more and more challenging particularly given the, the coming out of the pandemic and the additional prevalence and challenges that that that entails. And so, so that balance is one that we are continually having to strike. And I mentioned that there was a circuit 300 million pound of savings that needed to be made every year just to keep us at that break even level which is about five and a half percent. And as Council event says, there are, you know, we are not able to in all places, deliver some of those. So an example examples of those savings will be that some of those will be in relation to workforce which is about 70% of our budget. A good example example of that will be trying to convert expensive agency costs to permanent staff because there's an agency carries a premium so the more agency you use and the less permanent stuff you use the more expensive that becomes. So trying to, as, as far as possible to recruit more permanent staff and reduce that agency premium. Obviously, that's not always easy and we have a shortage of workforce. We are trying to reduce bank and agency overall so not just converting bank and or converting agency to permanent but actually reducing agency and then not having, having a lower cost, and fewer people in the hospitals. That is difficult to manage with but we have seen continuous growth in our workforce when other systems in London have been able to manage with with keeping their workforce at the same level or even reducing it so we are trying to learn from. From the examples of others to be able to do that but as I say the continuous pressures of managing fluctuating and increasing demand is is challenging for that. I guess I what I would say though, is that all of those savings plans, come with quality impact assessments and equality impact assessments and, and as council advances, raising that concern about, will we be able to continue to provide services as it stands, that is not something that we would, we would say is in doubt and we and we continue to provide the same level of services those efficiencies are providing the same services that are lower cost not not reducing the scope of services that are available. Thank you very much, Henry it's good to hear that your statement that the balance that patients will not suffer at the expense of a balance sheet that's, and I wish you well with trying to get a balanced budget. I don't think it's going to happen but good luck with that. My final question if I may chairman was about. Firstly, I wanted to obviously congratulate pick up the congratulations of the in the cancer area of being able to get the reporting for diagnostics down from 11,000 to zero but that was the backlog. Could I just ask a question of, does that mean now that patients who are waiting for reports about cancer treatment and diagnostics will now actually get their letters and responses in a much more timely fashion. I have experienced a family member person, so I'll declare an interest I've experienced a family member who sat and waited for over eight weeks to get a letter after a cancer diagnosis, and of course it's a very stressful time. Yes, excellent in getting your 11,000 down to zero, but will it continue and could we have some confirmation that that means going forward, patients waiting for results on their diagnostics will be in a much more timely fashion. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor Vance, and my sympathies to your family member, it absolutely is a very stressful and difficult time for people and speed, as you say, is very important to people in reducing that uncertainty. I'm afraid that I think Fiona who would have been able to answer that question and had to leave at five o'clock. So can I ask if we can take that question away and reply to you in writing, please. Yep, that's fine. Thank you. Okay, so I don't have any further indications from the chamber so at this point, can I thank all the speakers, members, do you wish to make any recommendations or take any further actions. Sorry. Sorry, just a quick question I mean thank you for everyone on the online for the presentation so it's got a very quick question for Alex and the London Ambulance and it was around. I was just looking at the report and I can't see the national target for category one, I can see that we're just under eight minutes. What is that national target and how, when would we meet the target by and how dependent is it on how many times because I can see a lot of the hospitals, for example, Queens and Whips Cross have 31 minutes, 28 minutes and other times which are quite large, are they on that. Thank you. Thank you, a really good question. So the national target is seven minutes for category one. We're just over seven minutes but actually nationally, we're doing really well. So whilst it is recognizing that it's over the seven minutes, we're doing pretty well nationally. I guess the assurance of, it's not acceptable to be over, but I suppose the assurance is that we don't have regular patient harm incidents because of that and I mentioned earlier on that we're well embedded with the patient safety framework in London so you know if there was any patient that we thought had come to harm because of a delayed response, that's investigating really robust and so I hope that answers the first part of your question. And the second part is, does that or how does that relate to any hospital delays. So, a first responder in a car, they can be prolonged on scene with a patient waiting for the ambulance to come to them to assist. We do know that there are system pressures right across London, right across northeast London, which do sometimes delay ambulances being cleared from hospital but what I want to say and it's been recognized by colleagues already, other NHS colleagues that all the hard work that is being done every day of the week to make sure ambulances are released back into the community really quickly, so that those ambulances can get to our category one responders for example who might be waiting with patients which means they can then go to their next category one call so it's cyclical, there's lots of work being done, we've got a laser focus on it day by day, hour by hour. Fiona Ashworth talked about the SEC which is the coordination centre which has a London and a regional oversight already so all of those things working together really important but I guess in summary, yeah, disappointing that we're over the seven minutes, but nationally we're pretty good and there's loads of system working to make sure that ambulances are in the community as quickly as possible to make sure that everybody can get to those category one patients, so I hope that answers the question. Councillor Chaudry. Thank you chair. Just, I checked in the, in the, it didn't come in the presentation about the pop-up clinic in Parkham Dagenham. If I am not sure that's because it's a very good project and pop-up clinic any residents comes, and they can once go they can check up their nurse, health care assistant and GP as well. But I found one thing is this project, will this service continue? My first question, and second question is does today's, I would like to rather than online, any questions in present I would prefer in future. Thank you. Thank you very much for the question Councillor. I'm sorry the audio went a bit wobbly but I think you were asking about the Barking and Dagenham pop-up clinics run by our primary care colleagues. The funding for some of those was provided from the ICB's Health Inequalities Fund, and I know that colleagues in primary care want to review the learning from all of those pop-ups to understand how best to take it forward. I would suggest they have been very successful ways of both enabling the community to easily access some primary care support, but particularly in getting out and getting to residents who, who might otherwise not be so able to access services for instance the Black and African, Afro-Caribbean specific pop-up that they held, and they've also been able to direct local residents to a wide range of other services, and so that they know where they can go in future for things that other services might be able to provide. Thank you very much Chad. May I make a general observation, if I may, we all know that time is precious, and it's precious for all of us, but I do know that I just wondered if we could make sure that in future, that these meetings are set up well in advance to hear that people have to go away because of their busy lives, you know, within a set period of time which is not within the set time of the committee. I've noticed on some other committees as well that you know, the overwhelming demand on some of our officers had to go away before the end of the committee and it was a bit disappointing from the committee's point of view to hear that they had to go away but as I say, their time is precious just as our time is precious, and the second observation that I make about the lack of officers turning up into the chamber as well. I would sometimes like to see the officers here in, or not always but occasionally here within the chamber, because I think I can interact and feel more collaborative kind of working with them when they're here in the chamber. I say that as I say, time is precious, everybody's time is precious, sometimes it's better for people to be away on zoom, because they have other work to do. But as I say it's an observation that I'd like to see some officers here, and I'd like to see them possibly allocating their time for this committee. Okay, so I don't believe I have any other comments or recommendations. So, that just leaves me to thank everyone who contributed to this meeting, thank you for all of you who did turn up to the chambers. My notes do say the next meeting is on the 14th of January venue to be confirmed so that concludes. Yeah, please do. So can we just thank our chair as well because he stepped in at last minute and he did an amazing job so thank you so much. Well, well, safe journey home if you want. Take care. Thank you very much. [BLANK_AUDIO]
Transcript
and North East London Joint Health and Overview and Scrutiny Committee. For those of you who may not know me, I am Councillor Robbie Mazzer, London Borough of B your name and where your position is within this meeting, please. I'm Councillor Mihiota Aguri, Councillor for Bemore, Barking and Dagenham Council. Thank you. I need to get the microphone on from there, so it's like driving my staff car. Oh, amazing. I'm Councillor Sonny Brough from Redbridge representing Newbury Ward, a member of the Health Committee in Redbridge and Chair of the Policy Development Health Committee in Redbridge. My name's Alex Ewings, I'm the Associate Director of Ambulance Operations from the London Ambulance Service here in North East London. Hi everyone, I'm Councillor Dr Kaz Risby from Epping Forest District Council, also the cabinet portfolio holder for Community Health and Well-Being, also practicing as a GP in West Essex. Hi, I'm Councillor Paul Robinson, I'm from London Borough of Barking and Dagenham, I also chair the Health Scrutiny Committee in Barking and Dagenham as well. Good evening, I'm Councillor Marshall Vance, I'm the Essex County Councillor representing Essex residents today. Good evening everyone, I'm Councillor Beverly Brewer, I am Chair of Health Scrutiny for the London Borough of Redbridge. Sorry, would you like to introduce yourself? I know we're slightly late in starting, so you've come at an appropriate moment. Hello, sorry, let's have a moment. Wait into this, never mind. Richard, Swede and I represent the London Borough of Waltham Forest and I apologise for lateness, got stuck on a bus in some quite serious traffic. No, we've had some IT issues, so that's fine. So we do have some people on Zoom, as I mentioned, this is a hybrid meeting, so I don't know if we can see the people on Zoom, can we have an introduction from the people on Zoom? Good evening or afternoon Councillors, I'm Zina Etheridge, I'm the Chair, sorry not the Chair, I'm the Chief Executive of the ICB and I also have my colleague Jo Moss with me. Afternoon, I'm the Chief Strategy and Transformation Officer for the ICB. Thank you. Okay, I'll introduce myself, I'm Paul Calaminas, I'm Chief Executive at North East London Foundation Trust. Hello, I'm Fiona Wheeler, Deputy Chief Exec and Chief Operating Officer at BHIUT. I'm Henry Black, I'm the Chief Finance Officer for the ICB. Thank you. Okay, so I think we've completed all the introductions, so just as some have notices, can we please switch off any mobiles or any other electronic devices and in the event of the evacuation, alarm sounding, please make your way down the staircase to the meeting point which is at the flag poles as you came into the chambers or as you came into the council building. So again, for those of you who don't really know me, I try to keep my meetings very precise so if presentations and questions we can keep very concise so that we do have an opportunity to scrutinize properly. So that's how I operate my meetings and there's nothing more to really say about that. So the next item is apologies for absence which I've got Councillor Christine Smith, Councillor Julie Wilkes for which I am substituting, Councillor Robbie Mazur, Councillor Brett Jones, I believe Councillor Mohamed Javed is substituting. Are there any other apologies that we are aware of? Okay, that's fine, that should be recorded in the minutes. Disclosure of interests on any agenda item, that's fine. So the next item is the previous minutes held on the 25th of July 2024, page five, are we happy to agree those minutes? Yeah, okay, so that's fine, so at some point during the meeting I'll sign those minutes. So we now move on to the first main item of business which is agenda item five, the health update which is basically the whole of the agenda, page 9 to 74. So can we have this presented please? Good evening Chair, if it's all right with the committee and both Fiona Wheeler from BHIUT and Archner Matha who isn't able to make herself heard on Zoom, so has just joined me, have to leave at five o'clock which was notified in advance. So if it's all right with you I would suggest that we take Fiona's update first which is on BHIUT followed by specialised services because as I say both of those participants have to leave at five o'clock. Yeah that's fine with me, absolutely fine. Okay so should we start with Fiona if that's all right in BHIUT? Thank you very much, thank you Chair. I'd like to present to you all a brief overview of the performance at BHIUT, that's Queen's Hospital, Rumford and King George Hospital. I think it's probably appropriate to start with a performance update around our emergency department, our A&E departments and in the news you will notice that A&E departments are extremely busy and have been throughout the summer. August and July were one of our busiest months ever and however I am very pleased to say that we've remained reasonably robust in terms of performance and the four-hour target for our A&E departments for all types that includes urgent care patients was at 78.9%. That is a really good standard of care for the majority of patients who attend our A&E departments. However I do know that despite all of the best efforts from the staff at both of our hospital sites I think we recognise that still far too many patients wait too long for assessment, diagnosis and treatment and in particular during the busiest times we have found it difficult to get patients out of our A&E departments into beds within the four-hour target. So on the one hand I'd like to you know really to reinforce to you that all the efforts of the hospital are going into making sure emergency care is prioritised and that is born out in some of the figures however also to recognise the vast amount of work that we still have to do. Most of that patient waiting happens in our corridors and it's become a sort of a term used loosely in the NHS now around corridor care but I think what's most important to explain here is that one of the biggest reasons for corridor care particularly at Queen's Hospital is the fact that the department was built for 120 patients a day and regularly sees just over 300 and so in a physical way we do need to modernise, we do need to improve and I think at any given time I'd be very happy at some point to come back and explain and show you our plans for improvement and reconfiguration. The bill for the reconfiguration at Queen's is estimated to be around 35 million and we have been along with anyone who will help us lobbying at every level within the NHS for the green light on funds to support some of that reconfiguration work. Most importantly that will provide much needed capacity for patients who attend who don't need to be admitted to a bed and what we call same-day emergency care can provide much greater volumes of work and patient care and diagnosis without the need for admitting patients into beds. So a much needed development and something that we are really pushing hard to get underway as soon as is possible. I would like to mention I note our LAS colleagues are in the chamber and our recent parliamentary award around the improvement work that was undertaken at King George's to reduce ambulance hand over times and we all know that ambulance hand over times are key to ensuring that A the ambulances can collect people from their homes and wherever they have fallen ill and but secondly key to hospitals taking over the ongoing assessment and care of patients who have brought to our A&E departments in ambulances. So a really good prestigious award for both LAS and for the King George team and something to celebrate after what was a really hard winter last year and lots and lots of good work going into that. It would be remiss of me to not mention the mental health pathways in terms of delivery of emergency care to patients who present with medical as well as mental health issues and during the month of August 331 patients were referred to our A&E departments through a mental health pathway either through LAS or otherwise and one of our areas of priority for winter and actually for now has got to be to continue to work collaboratively with our ICB colleagues and with our partner in delivering mental health care NELFT and I know Paul is here and will be more than happy to talk very eloquently about all the work they're doing around improving mental health care and but one of the areas we're focusing on as well is to create physical capacity within both our sites at King George and Queens and some dedicated space for patients with mental health presentations to improve safety patient experience and appropriate places for patients to wait for whatever element of care they're waiting for whilst under the care of the A&E department and again going back to the capital that is real priority for the system and for BHIUT. We know that winter's coming it doesn't feel like the numbers have stopped during the summer and so our next focus our current focus is to really try to make sure that we optimize all of the out of hospital pathways with our partners in primary care community care and other health care provider sectors and to make sure that we optimize the receipt assessment diagnosis and treatment of all patients that come through an emergency pathway and linked to that we'll be making sure patients are provided with safe and well-organized discharge from hospital to create the much needed capacity for for new admissions on a daily basis and we're currently undertaking a perfect week with borough social care and community colleagues in order to really co-design some of the ways through some of the problems that we encounter when trying to discharge patients from hospital so lots and lots of examples of collaborative work and a really motivated team we did we did do last winter together very well and we've got lots and lots to build on but lots of connections that we already can rely on to support better patient care during the winter months and I'll just move on briefly to our elective or planned care scenario we have a very high waiting list still for planned care and although it is in a downward trend and we have made some real improvements over the last 12 months about 89 percent of the people waiting on our waiting list need to come to an outpatient appointment as opposed to our waiting for surgery so of the total 66,000 and a half patients on the waiting list about 1,400 are waiting for some kind of admitted operation the rest of them are waiting for outpatients and so lots of work going on to increase or improve the time it takes to wait for an outpatient appointment and to provide better care quicker to patients referred from primary care and lots and lots of opportunities for shared care and for improvements in pathways and we're doing working with that in our interface meeting with our primary care colleagues where we discuss joint issues joint problems between the two parts of the healthcare system and hopefully design better ways of working together that are more streamlined for patients and reduce all sorts of opportunities for waste and activities that aren't valuable in patient care terms. I have undertaken on the last few months many opportunities around getting higher volumes of patients through, sorry just a sec, higher volumes of patients through our Saturday clinics through high volume operating lists and that all end up reducing the number of patients that have waited over a year for either an operation or an outpatient appointment and that is a well-established program at BHIUT which we we plan to continue. Moving on to money, I'm sure you're all fully aware of the current financial scenario within the NHS and we are currently working with a deficit of 18.2 million at the end of August which is about nine million adverse to plan which is a staggering amount of money at this part of the year. The added burden we have going forward is the ongoing cost of winter of winter care and the system being overwhelmed with activity leading to in some cases unplanned expenditure. However we have a good program of work around financial recovery. We are well connected with our ICB colleagues and other provider trusts and we are working through a number of programs to maintain financial resilience and maintain our current spending plan according to our year-end forecast. So lots to do, lots of difficult situations to discuss in the future but lots of connectivity with our teams and our partners in the ICB. I'd like to finish if I may on cancer before just talking about a couple of strategic areas. Our cancer targets are working well. Our 62-day performance was 74.8% which is short of the 85% target but we are seeing diagnosing more and more patients every month. Our recent opportunity to open two community diagnostic centres, one in Barking and one forthcoming in Horn Church at the St George's Hospital and will deliver 75,000 additional scans and that's a real course for celebration across the NHS and will be instrumental in helping us diagnose more patients quicker and particularly on cancer pathways. I would like to mention before I go a couple of opportunities. The aging well unit at St George's Hospital is due to open in the next three weeks to patients and that will be focusing on providing aging and frailty care for patients who could otherwise be treated outside the hospital environment and our aim is to reduce the amount of frail and elderly people who attend A&E as the first point of call for health care and that will be run and co-designed with our GP colleagues and we're hoping to really embed that in the community and make a real difference to our A&E departments. In other news our Daisy ward which is our rehabilitation ward post stroke recently received gold ward accreditation and we are currently moving that ward back to the King George site to combine it with some of the other work we're doing around King George's around getting patients well and ready to go home after after illness. I think I will pause that because I'm probably out of time. Thank you. Thank you very much Fiona. I know you have to leave at five so are there any questions from chambers so I'll take, sorry I can't remember names but I'll just point sorry for being rude. Thank you Fiona for a very comprehensive report. My question was specifically around the waiting list and you mentioned in your verbal report about you know there's lots of work going into treating patients quicker and in the actual documented report there's mention of innovative ways that the trust has been you know utilising to cube us so would you mind sharing some of the strategies to help reduce waiting times? Certainly. I'll give you an example, a very current example. With the opening of the women's health hubs we recognise that women's health and particular waiting lists for gynaecology are the biggest in London and the biggest in terms of health inequality across our system. We've set up a group session which can see up to 15 women at one time around continents and urogynecology and those ladies currently wait around a year for a physio appointment which is completely unnecessary and through a group session we can get on the front foot with regard to proactive treatment for those ladies and we're working through that at a rapid speed of knots. It will both reduce the 52-week waiters, it provides better care for women and provides quicker access to appropriate health care. That's just one example, I know we're short for time and at any point in the future if people want to come and hear about all the work we're doing around that very comprehensive answer it will be available. Thank you. Thanks so much for that update. I'm concerned about mental health patients waiting I think it's 22 hours, we're still at that level and I know we've talked about it a lot before and you know you've been reporting that a lot of work is going on but when are we going to really see improvements because obviously that's a dire situation for all concerned. Thank you. Thanks Beverly, I appreciate that and I have colleagues on this call. Paul is here as the Chief Exec of Nelft and other colleagues from the system and maybe if I may hand that the answer to some of that to the system or to Paul for a more in-depth answer as opposed to the A&E version. Thank you. Chair, I think it's up to you whether or not you want us to talk to this question now or when Paul does his update on Nelft. I just note that the item on specialised I'm going to ask a question from the Chamber then perhaps we can switch over to Paul. Chair, just very briefly the presentation on specialised commissioning the presenter also needs to leave at five o'clock so we have got an update from Nelft on mental health. Okay let's go to the presentation then yeah thanks. Hi everybody my name is Archam, Director of Specialised Services and Cancer for North East London. Really good opportunity to bring you up to speed with the delegation of specialised commissioning. I'm just going to give a very brief update on what is happening, the reason why the delegation is taking place, a little bit about clinical networks and really the whole rationale for it in terms of impacts on our patients, residents and populations. So specialised services are a broad range of services, there are a huge number of services and they range from some which are quite complex, some that are less complex, some for which there are large volumes of activity and some for which there are lower volumes of activity. Largely they're driven by innovation, research, new clinical practice and the such like and they're delivered by hospitals for which they have expert training, equipment and so on and so forth. As we know with these innovations demand for these services is rising, these services are costly and aligned with our population growth it's a really important function that statutorily is moving from NHS England to the ICBs. It's a large amount of money as well, nationally it's about 15% of the budget and for NHS Nell ICB it's about 20%. The change is really happening so that the ICBs are able to look at the totality of those clinical pathways for patients, right from an intervention, early intervention and prevention in primary care right through to the care and treatment of patients within our acute hospitals. At the moment with the commissioning with NHS England that has been less, there are less opportunities to be able to do that simply because of proximity to those populations. So the benefits really are allowing us to take holistic view about the quality of care that we're providing, ensuring that we've got really good access and looking at all of the finances in one hit really in totality. So that is specialised pathways and non-specialised pathways all in the round. Associated with the delegation of the actual services there's also joint commissioning of what we call clinical networks and these are mandated networks of clinicians, the networks are hosted within our clinical, within our providers and they are really a group of clinicians who work across organisations to help provide expert advice to us on how those services have been commissioned. They're also the people that help develop national service specifications that we all must adhere to and also provide help and support in terms of planning, developing metrics for success and so on and so forth. So it's a really good opportunity for us to work together more closely with our clinicians within these networks. There are other slides that go into a bit more detail about some examples of these and I draw your attention to the main priorities for specialised services that we have in North East London. They are HIV, liver and hep C, cardiology, renal, sickle cell, neurosciences and complex urogyny. These are all pathways for which we have significant pressure within our system and really need to think about how we provide that care both upstream within primary care and early intervention and also within our hospitals as well. There are some examples of that work for example with HIV, a lot of work on implementing opt-out testing within our emergency departments, increasing early diagnosis and so on and so forth. The final slide goes into a little bit more detail about HIV as well but there are many examples which I'm really happy to talk about at another point in time. In terms of what happens next there's a little bit of due diligence that needs to be undertaken. We've been doing this work for two years and it's been delayed in London to allow additional checks and balances for us to really make sure that we're ready to receive this function. So we need to undergo some more due diligence and then take the formal agreements through our ICB governance whilst simultaneously working through the actual work that impacts on our patients and our residents through the transformation work. I'll stop there in the interest of time but happy to take any questions or queries. Thank you. Thank you. Is there any questions about that before she goes? Bear in mind we've got about four minutes. Yep, go ahead. Thank you very much. I attended the Labour Party conference at a fringe meeting. I think I heard the only commitment that was made by any Minister for the entire time and that was to eradicate new infections of HIV at an HIV fringe meeting. You spoke about early diagnosis and opt-out testing but in order to work towards that Admiral goal there would have to be quite wide availability of PrEP for people who are already infected and known to be infected. I wonder what measures you might be able to take towards this very laudable policy aim. I mean I can't profess to be an expert in all things HIV unfortunately. I might have to take some questions and queries away. It's sufficient to say that those targets have been in place and we are absolutely committed to trying to meet them. The work on the opt-out testing in our emergency departments has been really exceptional. Fiona will attest as well that in BHIT they've actually been really progressing with this and there really haven't been that many issues with regards to PrEP and the such like. I guess the other thing to highlight about the treatment of HIV and the broader work associated with the delegation of specialised commissioning is our ability to link up much better with our local authority partners aligned to the sexual health strategy that's been developed as well. So I think all in all that that's going to be a much better assurance in the round as to how we reach those targets and goals that have been nationally set and determined. Thanks. Okay so you can depart from your virtual interaction and we'll just go forward with the other presentations now please. Thank you chair and apologies we're sharing one laptop because we were having some difficulties getting on with getting onto the zoom link. So you've got some slides in your pack which give a general health update which I'm not going to obviously not going to talk through because you've got the slides in advance. If you bear with me for one moment I will, sorry because we're switching between people. So the slide pack gives some general updates. It talks about where we are in recruiting chairs to our various NHS acute trusts in northeast London. It describes the annual assessment that NHS England do of all integrated care boards and points to some further readings if anybody is particularly interested in that. It points to various new practices that we've opened across northeast London recently and two of which are in outer northeast London. They're really really exciting developments and if members haven't had an opportunity to see those practices or those centres as they are more generally then we'd be happy to arrange for that to happen because they really are great developments. We thought the committee might be interested in some work that we've taken to our board recently looking at across northeast London at the range and there is a very substantial amount of it of work on long-term conditions and so it gives you some examples of some of those and again points to our board papers which have got some more detail in there. There are so many things in there that I am not an expert on any of them but it gives you a quick summary across them. Various other things of note going on in the system we're coming to as part of the agenda including the financial situation which has already been talked about and our winter plan and various other specific updates but that's kind of probably all I need to say from a general perspective. We've got an update to give you on some surgery specifications which we can go straight into or I can pause for questions. I've got one more question then we'll go to the other presentations. Thank you very much. It's a very very interesting report and I did have sight of it before coming and the thing that was most eye-catching for me was the improving access for local people and the three new health facilities that have been set up. The one in Ilford Exchange particularly was something that I noticed first hand at the site of the old M&S which has been closed down. So as I was going through the exchange with my little boy getting some bigger mix I saw really brand spanking shiny new building or signage around there and the questions that I had were I think it's fantastic to use space which otherwise wouldn't have been having a lease holder but as far as the decision to set up a health facility within the shopping centre what form of sort of scoping exercise or what sort of kind of research had been done as to whether that was an appropriate site. The second question which is attached to that is lots of research shows that people when they're out shopping they consider it therapeutic in its own right and they don't really want to be disturbed and bombarded with health propulsion or public health material which is something which has been proved over the country. As for the actual kind of longevity and the legacy of this health centre do we have an idea as to how long the lease is or what sort of kind of time frame we'd expect this to still be kind of up and running for? Thank you very much Councillor. So there's a lot of detailed questions there. I think in terms of this particular centre the original idea for it grew out of a vaccination centre and you might recall thinking back to the pandemic that we worked really hard to put vaccination centres at the heart of the community to build trust, break down barriers, make it as easy as possible. That's some of the thinking that goes behind, has gone behind getting a range of facilities and there's quite a wide range of different services using the Ilford Exchange. There are across the country a whole range of different health centres, different health facilities that have been put at the heart of the community to make them accessible for residents. So for instance community diagnostic centres in Wood Green for instance there's a community diagnostic centre in the equivalent shopping centre to the Ilford Exchange. So it is a technique that has worked pretty successfully in a range of places. It is not intended to be a kind of flash-in-the-pan presence in the Ilford Exchange but your precise questions on length of lease and things like that I'm afraid I don't have the details to handle. Okay thanks very much. So let's go to the next presentation I guess. Afternoon. So I was just going to briefly speak to the slides. I won't repeat all of the detail that's contained in the pack but this was really just to give the committee an update on a technical piece of work that I'm leading at the moment with colleagues across the system to review the specifications that we have for a number of our surgical services. As part of that work and we think it's really important to engage with local residents and patients and so we have been doing a piece of work to just make sure that we've listened to and understood from local residents and patients what matters to them when they're accessing surgical services and we are still at the point of finalising those specifications that sit across seven of the different surgical specialties and I think it's really important for the committee to note that there will be no changes to the location from which services are provided. This is a piece of technical work that we're doing in the background that just assures us as commissioners that the providers that we are contracting with have the appropriate range of services and our focus on delivering the outcomes that we know matter and clinically but also socially for our patients. I'm very happy to take further questions if anybody has any. Thank you. Okay thanks. I think what I'll do is go through all the presentations and then have questions at the end of the session so whoever the next presentation is from. I think it would be helpful if the when matters are referred to if the page numbers in the pack could be referred to. Thank you Councillor Sweden. I'm sure we can do that. I think the next part in the pack and I'm sorry I'm working off a very small screen because we're using my laptop as the one to access is the winter update. I think it's on page 22 of the slides and it's Fiona Ashworth who's going to present that. Thank you, thank you Zina. So this is really a high level position of where we are in terms of our winter planning. So last year we did a really comprehensive piece of work on winter to ensure that our hospitals and our community were safe and able to take patients in the most appropriate way and from that what we what we did by the end of the year we were able to describe over 78 percent of our population our patients attending received the care that they needed within four hours which was a really significant change. The paper lays us out we did a huge amount of work with our ambulance colleagues, with community colleagues, with our place colleagues to ensure that actually the pathways for patients were located correctly and we did a huge amount of work on communicating. For this year the winter plan remains a priority for the system and its partners. We have a new set if you like of asks from the national team to keep our patients safe and give good quality care. Where we are currently is we have had two events we had an event in April and then a further one in June and by our chief people officer there was a third event actually in September. So really bringing the whole of the system together to think about how we provide safe and sustainable care over the winter period. So in addition to the acute space we are looking at several areas and I think just worth drawing those out. It's really important to keep our population and well and so we are maximizing the winter vaccination campaign and that is very widely noted right across our system. We want to ensure that we keep our patients safe so we have done a piece of work around patients with complex and long-term conditions so that their care is optimized so patients for example with respiratory or cardiac disease. As Fiona talked about earlier we're also doing some work around preventing attendance by having patients access to GPs and also 111 and pharmacists and then at system level we are also looking at discharge as a priority. So how do we make sure that as a patient is ready for discharge they are discharged from the acute provider into a community facility or to home. Last year we talked about a system coordination center and the function of the coordination center is that we've got a real whole system visibility of where there is pressure but also where there is capacity across our system so this is both outer and inner northeast London and that has really matured over the last year really giving us a sense of actually how we work together in partnership particularly where there is pressure. And then finally just around what we call the 10 high impact interventions these are just measures of actually how mature processes and the system are in making sure that we've got the right things in place for our population and our patients. We are in the second year of the UEC program and what we've drawn out in summary on page 24 I think is around how we are planning to keep patients well and safe and we've summarized that so you can see the priorities for us. So in terms of next steps we are continuing to develop our winter plan we have an event with our chief operating officers right across the system for acute and mental health in the next days. We are looking at our children and our young people in terms of their needs. We are of course anticipating and observing any impact of GP collective action which at the this point we have seen little impact at this point but also recognizing we have pressures in terms of our flow around local authority budgets. And finally just to say we do ask just to help and support us with all our endeavors for the right care and winter campaign to ensure that our population and our patients are vaccinated this year to keep them well and also to prevent obviously attendance into urgent and emergency care so that we can prevent overflow and challenge in relation to some of the areas around patient groups. Thank you councillors. Thank you so can we have the next presentation please. I believe that will be finance councillor from Henry Black. Thank you very much. Hello everyone my name is Henry Black I'm the chief finance and performance officer for northeast London ICB. I will talk you through just briefly the we've put one slide which is should be page 27 in your pack which gives the a snapshot of the financial position at month five. Fiona briefly mentioned the BHIUT financial position as being extremely challenged earlier and that is the case across the whole of northeast London but across the the whole the NHS and public services as a whole. So we as at month five which is the August performance data we had an 87.2 million deficit which is about 53 million variants from plan so adverse variants. This is a position which has been fairly stable throughout the year in the sense that we have had a we've posted a deficit accumulatively every month. At month five we have seen a slowing down of that variance which is good news so there's the the financial position is beginning to stabilize which is a reflection of all the hard work that is being put in across all organisations as as we work towards our financial recovery. We do have early sight of the month six numbers as well that's the September numbers they haven't yet been through internal board governance for the organisations but there does appear to be a continued improvement in the run rate and a slowing down of the deficit but the the position continues to be extremely challenged. So the main drivers of that we had ongoing industrial action which was a particular issue last financial year less of an issue now and thankfully most of the industrial action have all the disputes have been progressed most but not all and there is a 7.9 million sorry 7.6 million cost to the system for the cost of industrial action. A further million pounds roughly on the cyber attack that took place in the south east of London and had a knock-on impact on some of our providers including parts. The main drivers of the pressures though continue to be the fact that we started the year with a very very challenging set of cost improvement programs. We have about almost 300 million of assumed savings to be delivered within our overall system envelope and so that was about five and a half percent of our total turnover and so that has been very challenging and there have been some areas where that has not been possible to deliver in full partly because of the challenges around industrial action. Other pressures include high occupancy within mental health beds which has resulted in a higher than expected use of private sector beds which are very expensive. We have very extreme pressure in the renal dialysis which is a specialized commissioning or a specialized service again very expensive and we have had just general pressures on bank use bank staff for where we have additional acuity of patients on the wards and corridor care which is not good for patients but also very expensive. The main areas that we are targeting to reduce the the run rate pressures are around use of high expensive premium agency and it's good to see that we have made significant inroads in that we still have a high rate of agency but it is significantly lower than it was in previous years and that is the key area that we need to work on to reduce our overall pay bill and work is ongoing between the chief people officers the chief nursing officers and the chief medical officers to deliver that. So that's the position as at month five and I'll pause there. Okay thanks very much happy to move on to the next presentation. Thank you Councillor and I believe we're next up we're due to hear from London Ambulance Service who I think are there in the chamber with you. Thank you chair thank you Councillors it's lovely to be here with you this evening I'm Alex Hughes I'm the Associate Director of Ambulance Operations for the London Ambulance Service in North East London and so I'm going to give you a quick run through of the report that we provided it's from starts on title page London Ambulance Service performance report in the PAN. So there's definitely some positive news to talk about this evening and we've got some opportunities but there are also some challenges to recognise as well. We are the busiest UK Ambulance Service we take over two million 999 calls per year and we are the only provider that covers pan London and I'm here today because I'm responsible for ambulance operations in North East London so that's obviously what I'm going to talk to you about this evening. So our response times for category one which are our immediately life-threatening patients and cat two patients which is slightly less but still emergency and urgent have improved in the month leading to August and it's really pleasing to note that of late particularly the North East London category two number is predominantly below the London mean which is really good because that's definitely an improved position. Our hear and treat number is also consistently good at about 20 percent which puts us first or second against other UK Ambulance Services and that's the patients that we can successfully deal with over the phone give them advice referrals and essentially close the 999 call without the dispatch of an ambulance but the patient still gets really good governed high quality care from our expert clinicians. So our cat two performance certainly for August remained under the 30-minute agreed target at 29 minutes 8 which was excellent but I do want to recognise that we do have challenges in certain boroughs in North East London there is a performance gap of about 15 minutes between the outer North East London boroughs which do better compared to some of the inner boroughs so City and Hackney Tower Hamlets etc and what we are doing about that is focusing more staff into those areas and we have a laser focus on a daily and a weekly basis on practical terms such as you know production and management of our people resource and so I do want to recognise to the committee that September has been a difficult month for us our category two response time went up to 40 minutes but that was still below the London figure of a 42-minute mean for the London Ambulance Service across all areas. As has already been mentioned we are continuing to work with all our partners across the ICS area to particularly to reduce delays in handing over patient care at hospitals and as has already been mentioned but I'm going to mention it again because it's great news we were joint winners with colleagues from King George's Ilford for the NHS parliamentary awards so just want to mention that again. The percentage of patients that we convey to hospital is consistent there isn't actually a target or a commission target for this but it's about 50% of the patients that we see face to face we convey to hospital. Now I want to distinguish that from just being one in two of all patients because it's not because we take about 7,999 calls a day a number of those patients are successfully transferred across to 111 where they have hear and treat we do our own successful hear and treat figures as well and then also the patients we see face to face it's about 50% which is really consistent so and it's quite a good figure and it's just to recognise as well that the patients that we're seeing are sicker and are more complex as well but clearly we're using as many pathways and other referral avenues that we can to safely keep patients out of ED wherever that's possible. Just something else really just about our people in our workforce just over the last 12 months we introduced a new concept of team-based working so if you think of or compare it to the fire service where everyone I think would know that they work as a watch so red watch blue watch etc we now do something very similar internally with the London Ambulance Service and the real benefit of that is that our teams will come on shift together they'll be on shift with their manager every day they have dedicated training time built into their rota and there's lots of science between why behind why that is good for people and then obviously good for patients because we learn together we train together and ultimately it's the teams of ambulance crews that are going out to patients together day in day out. So I think you know on reflection as well of that we are an excellent learning organisation internally where we were an early implementer of the patient safety framework which is relatively new in the NHS we're an early implement so we're well into that now but I think one of the reflections and as has been mentioned it's about what we can do better with external partners to learn across the system not just internally but looking externally as well. Finally just a plug if I may the BAFTA award-winning series BBC Ambulance starts again tonight on BBC One at nine o'clock and I'm really proud to say it features the London Ambulance Service related series so please do give that watch it features staff and patients from North East London. Thank you. Thanks very much. I'm not sure what we've got next. Thank you chair it will be Paul Calaminas giving the NELFT updates. Yep thank you. Thank you very much. So this is in the pack from page 41 and really we've put this in reflecting all the work in both mental health and community health collaboratives. If maybe I start with mental health obviously I won't go through everything that's in the pack but maybe if I begin with some of the pressures in the mental health crisis services and mental health crisis pathway. So Fiona already made mention of some of the experiences of some of our patients in emergency departments and Henry too made mention of the fact that we are needing to use additional beds on a daily basis to be able to provide care for all of the outer North East London residents who need admission to hospital. Today we have 51 people in additional beds to give you a scale of the numbers that we are talking about and we are not in a position where we have a lot of people blocking our beds so sometimes you hear the kind of you know sometimes what's going on is that people it's difficult to admit people because there are lots of people waiting for discharge. Certainly we're not in that generally speaking we are not in that position. What we are seeing is a lot of people presenting into mental health services unfortunately in crisis for the very first time. So on our latest order of that 70% of the people presenting to emergency departments in crisis were new to mental health services and very sadly usually presenting in huge amounts of social crisis relating to family, income, housing and employment and feeling really frankly at the end of their tether. In outer North East London that is over the last few months also sorry excuse me affecting more women than men and so we have seen a real increase in that level of distress amongst women in the population. We do have plans in place to try and address this. One of the key elements of the plan actually is alongside the physical space that Fiona mentioned is to create a mental health essentially a mental health emergency department space on the Goodmays Hospital site because that would that really would help us bring people into a different sort of environment, do more detailed assessment work away from the emergency department space and put in place plans you know really help us try and put in place plans to work with those people. Clearly in the more medium term or as quickly as we can but I think in the more medium term realistically we need to be really trying to engage and work with people before they reach the point of crisis because there are clear issues with that number, that percentage of people arriving in mental health crisis not being in touch with mental health services in any way, shape or form. For folk who are in touch with us you know the use of the use of that type of crisis service is much much much less frequent. We do also have a new crisis line offer so dialling NHS 111 and then asking for option two will bring everyone through to our mental health crisis line that is staffed 24 hours a day with mental health professionals and can also link people to their local crisis response teams or community health community mental health teams. And we have also in the last few months opened additional mail bed capacity on the Goodmays site along with some additional section what is called section 136 capacity which has certainly helped particularly I think the experience at King George's A&E with making sure that we're able to offer space on the Goodmays site for people being brought in by the police and that's in conjunction with a new advice line we've opened for police colleagues to really try and enable them to get advice from a mental health professional at the point of deciding whether or not they're going to use that section of the mental health act. If you don't mind I would just like to also pick out from the mental health side of this presentation the work that's been done around assertive community treatment and re-looking at some of the approaches to that. That's a national piece of work it follows on from the very very tragic incident involving people students and a caretaker in Nottingham and a service user called Veldo Callicane. And across the country we have been doing a piece of work on you know the group of people within the community for whom we need to engage more assertively. That so far has led to some you know some analysis of our caseloads some gap analysis of that and we are now working up with our service users with our patients the response to that for local services. I did if you don't mind sharing the mental health side finally just want to just draw the committee's attention to the fact that within the collaborative we actually have some priorities that are set by our patients and I did just want to draw the committee's attention to that because they're a really explicit attempt to make sure that we are focusing on things that really matter to people and we are really trying to keep that out of the center of the work we do. In terms of performance I think the couple I would probably have picked out are also to note that for particularly for outer North East London the proportion of the population we're able to offer talking therapies to has really very significantly increased and we are really reliably able to offer a very prompt response to referrals there people can sell people do in thousands thousands of people self-refer into that service and it's available you know on phone online and face-to-face and then to note too that physical health checks which is a hugely important part of the work of mental health services given that you know the most severely mentally ill people in society tend to die 10 years younger than their peers at least has really very very significantly improved in outer North East London such that we're now amongst the highest performing areas in the country. On the community health side again I won't repeat everything that's in the pack I won't repeat everything that Zina alluded to in terms of long-term conditions because obviously that there is a lot of work there and I know it's been touched on already but I really would just want to to make sure that I mentioned the Ilford Exchange which has obviously been opened, St George's which is is due imminently to to come online and also the opening of Bean Park the other day the the new health centre in Bean Park which I think and I think will be an important community resource. So that was really just to pick some some highlights chair from the report. Thank you Sharon our last update is on maternity which would be given by Diane Jones and I will swap places with her so that you can see her now. Hi there good evening everybody my name is Diane Jones and I'm the chief nursing officer for the ICB. I'm just presenting the engagement that we did around our maternity services looking at the case for change so what we thought what we saw was that we wanted to understand what were the changing needs of our population and the residents of North East London and we knew that we could see that there was going to be an increase and we looked at that against our current maternity services. More importantly we wanted to engage with the public to understand what was their experience of maternity services and what would they like to see in the future whether it's for themselves or for others. So we did a piece of work around reaching out through to lots of our communities. We did focus groups and we also did online survey as well. Some of the key things we were asking was is there a need to do something different based on your experiences? We had lots of respondents that came through and I think about 64% were people that have had a baby in North East London or family members of that individual and then we had lots of feedback from staff as well. That piece of work helped us to shape give us the answers we needed in terms of the case for change so it helped to tell us that people knew that we needed to do something different they wanted us to do something different and they understood why we might need to do something different based on the fact that we can see that our population is growing and that there's more demand on our maternity and neonatal services as well. So from that we've taken information we've looked at the numbers in terms of the current demand on services the current types of ways that women and pregnant people are giving birth and that's helping us to start to shape what could be the opportunities for how we deliver maternity services in the future. Some of the key things that we heard people say was that they wanted greater continuity in the antenatal period and the postnatal period. Quite often the birthing experience tends to be good if not better because they get one-to-one care whilst they're having the baby. What women find is that when they go to the postnatal period that they feel lost they feel as though that there's not enough support particularly when it comes to breastfeeding. So some of the feedback that we've had is around breastfeeding support it's been the handover transition with health visitors and also where you may have a child with extra needs additional needs that may go into neonatal unit what's the support that they can be given. At this stage what we're doing is sharing the case for change we're sharing the engagement that we've done and we're wanting to go forward with looking at what the opportunities are to change and reconfigure how we deliver maternity services so that we have the right care in the right place for our pregnant population. We'll stop there. And chair that takes you to the end of our presentations. All right thanks all of you who did give a presentation, very informative. So I'm just going to open up to the committee in the chambers now who have any questions. Go ahead, sorry. Thanks very much Aaron and thank you to all of the presenters for really really detailed reports and great verbal reports. So I'll just punch up my questions one by one. So the first one that I had was for Henry from a finance point of view and Henry you touched on your report that one of the key drivers behind the budget deficit was or the overspending rather was industrial action and I believe the report relates to month five which correlates to August. Industrial action as far as the junior doctor strikes was concerned I think the last of them was on the 2nd of July. So I wonder what sort of you know factors from the industrial action would have kind of led on to month five which was August and if you wouldn't mind sort of giving us a bit more info about that and then the second question was to Alex and great to see you here in the chamber. You touched on Alex about the performance gap for category two ambulances in inner London so a city in Hackney and Tower Hamlets and I do wonder if some of the 15-minute kind of delays that we see in those areas whether they're sort of possibly related to the kind of 20 mile per hour speed restrictions that they've got on that side compared to where we are in Havering at the moment so I'll just be interested to know what some of the determinants behind the kind of increase in response times of cat twos are and those are just my two questions. Thank you very much I'll be very quick because Councillor is right to note that there was no industrial action in August. The numbers that I provided were the year-to-date position for month one to five so for the full year up to August so the 7.6 million was it was incurred earlier in the year but it's included in the total figures for the period year to date so the deficit is not presented as the deficit in August it's the year to date for the whole of the year up to between 1st of April and 31st of August. Thank you Councillor for your question so I'm a paramedic by professional background and having worked around City in Hackney, Homerson, Camden, Islington so I do know that it can be really challenging for our staff to get around those boroughs and whilst I couldn't directly attribute it to 20 mile an hour zones or LTNs etc it definitely is a challenged space to get around so yes I would say that just from a practical perspective that does certainly add to some of the difficulties that our teams face when getting around London and in other areas as well. I know that we have a rotating chair but I mean I could suggest if possible in future whether we would be able to go through the themes and ask questions as we go along rather than having all of the information in one go because obviously then you're able to ask pertinent questions at the point onto that topic so and also I don't want to bombard everybody with all of my questions in one go so I prepared my questions in advance in relation to the page references and how we will proceed and so now I've got them all lined up which obviously doesn't feel very good so I mean I can read them all out if you like but probably they'll be forgotten by the way we get to the end. So I had I did have questions about NHS England annual assessment of the Northeast London ICB starting on page 11 of the report and I was disappointed to see that the ICB has failed to spend funds from the system development program which is aimed at supporting GP practices and primary care networks. That was a big concern for me because I think our GPs need as much support as they possibly can get in these difficult times and to think that there was money allocated that wasn't spent so I'd like to know why and I want to have some assurance please that the ICB will do more to support general practice and PCNs this year and in relation to that I also saw under again that same item there's been a 39 increase in 12-hour breaches in ED departments I'd like assurance about that please and what we can do to eliminate these very long waits so I thought I'd ask these questions under that and then move on to with winter planning thank you. Chair would you like me to come in and respond pick up those two at this point? Yeah please do. Thank you so on SDF and primary care spending and Councilor Brewer project funding and funding like SDF is it's a little bit like capital funding it's not always within our gift to spend it within the year because sometimes projects start a little late and although I recognize your frustration it is a little while until I since I read the full assessment of the ICB and so I'm really happy to take that question away and provide you with some more details in writing on 12-hour waits in our emergency departments and you heard from Fiona earlier on about the challenges at the HIUT and you heard from Paul about the very high volume of demand for the mental health crisis pathway at the moment we are seeing all the way across the system in Northeast London but also in London and as a whole that we are seeing this very challenging set of demands now as you as is absolutely implicit in your question that is that is really really not what we want for our patients and once we get to delays of that sort of length there is significantly more risk of harm to those patients and some of those people are waiting for a health assessment that is quite a small number overall and others are waiting for you know kind of other other sort of physical health and assessments and so all the way across the system we're doing a lot of work on understanding the reasons for those and what else we need to do and we've got system-wide piece of work on flow through our hospitals and flow through our mental health trusts because the best way that we can deal with a lot of those delays is not what happens in ED per se but getting the flow through hospitals working most effectively and coupled with ensuring that we're doing everything we can to prevent people from needing to go to our emergency departments in the first place. Some of the measures that Fiona talked about earlier on in relation to the winter plan are absolutely to tackle some of those one weight. I had some questions on winter planning as well one was on the ambulance response times I know we've discussed that a little but I see there's a 30-minute target obviously we would want to have 18 minutes for Catholic U2 response times which are the national targets so be grateful for some more clarity about when we can have more alignment with that. We have talked about well I did ask the question but I haven't had an answer yet about emergency department weights for mental health patients which currently stand at 22-hour averages and BHRUT so I would like that to be picked up here now because that's obviously very concerning indeed. And also I was concerned my third question on winter planning on page 25 there's a reference to commissioning beds from the independent sector to provide alternatives to mental health or hospital bedded provision so could I ask for clarification about that please and I thought it was policy to reduce the use of independent sector beds for mental health. Thank you. Thank you Councillor. I'm going to suggest that Fiona Ashworth picks up your question specifically about the winter plan but Paul Calaminas comes in on the mental health questions if that's all right. Thank you Gina. Thank you Councillor. I'll respond to the category two and ambulance offloads piece if that's okay to start with. So across North East London we've made really significant improvements in our ambulance offloads in order to release those ambulances back to the community over the last year so currently we're in 45 minutes we are delivering at about 60 percent of our patients being offloaded in that time and we and whilst that is an ideal that has been quite a step change and also of course Alex talked earlier about our performance about category two response so that's actually ambulance being able to respond to patients still waiting in the community so we have made some real inroads what we are currently doing is working as part of winter planning and beyond to look at actually how we can continue to build on that so in relation to actually working as a as a system of actually where we may sign post other patients to alternative pathways but also working on expanding what actions we can take collectively to improve our position and in terms of next steps with that we have a Matthew Trainor who's one of our chief executives needs on a piece of work looking at a more strategic solution again to enable a sustainable response to our ambulance our ambulance provision our offloads and we work very closely with Alex who's obviously in chambers at this time and I'm happy to pause at that point and perhaps if I could just say a couple words on the mental health side so you're quite right Councillor it is policy absolutely what we would all want to do is to not use additional private sector beds and make sure that people from out of office and in boroughs are treated in local beds as I say we are unfortunately using more private sector beds at the moment than we were a year ago and that is that is being driven by demand in mental health crisis we do as I say we do have some plans that we are we are enacting to to try and help us address that so for example we are right we are right in the middle of opening additional an additional crisis house in the borough redbridge that will give us some additional capacity to respond for people who are in crisis and as I say that we are establishing mental health crisis centre at good maze which will give us an additional element of capacity too but I suppose my hesitation is that if we continue to see people coming new into service in crisis for mental health some of the factors behind using those additional beds and some of the factors behind waiting times in the department are going to be hard to in the short term to eradicate completely because it is that level of crisis presentation that is driving both the use of beds and some of the waiting time issues the other thing I think I'd say about waiting times is that they they do also often relate to the complexity of the people you know people as they come into the department as I perhaps rather inarticulately try to describe there are a range of factors for people both social factors and physical factors as well as mental health factors that we do have to work through for and assess and work with each individual patient for they can quite often in all honesty also be compounded by substance use and so we do quite often find that by the time we have done a thorough piece of work to really assess and try and understand and work out what the the right destination for somebody is it can take some considerable amount of time and of course we don't you know we don't want to to to do inadequate assessment work and we don't want to rush that because you know we can end up with people in you know in mental health beds or under the mental health act when actually we could put some other plan and approach in place so we really are working hard to try and reduce that amount of time but as I say the some of those factors are really quite complex and some of this does rely actually on enough bed capacity and how we can create that as I say we do have plans in place we are opening some of those additional crisis beds but many of these people are are new to service I've had two other questions one on mental health and one on maternity that's okay I just wondered with the mental health I welcome the work that the collaboration has done on this but I can't see anything that's been delivered for learning disability and autism when will this happen please I'm a huge apologies I lost the ability to use my mute button yes I thank you very much for picking me up from that I should have talked about the work in learning disabilities so I've obviously made reference in the report to a number of areas we this year we have implemented our intensive support team for learning disabilities so that is now up and running we have also introduced a number of we've we've now got a couple of sensory rooms on the wards at GoodMay specifically for people with autism and learning disabilities and we are just creating the capacity to create another one and we also are in the position where we have now employed a set of key workers specifically to work in the community and into inpatient services with people with both autism and learning disabilities as part of the work to try and improve improve their quality of life and the quality of the service that the NHS offered them and finally we have also under this heading and particularly thinking about physical health of people with a learning disability being able to expand the offer into some of the residential and other accommodation for people with a learning disability in particular that focuses on their physical health helping them understand their physical health and really with a view to try to make sure that all the health checks are completed and that people are getting timely access to physical health care thank you for that that is that is welcome I just wanted to ask with the maternity and neonatal presentation when we'll have a timetable for the next step with the process I'd like to ask with assurance that there'll be genuine consultation on any proposed changes and that we will not have recommendations presented as a fait accompli thank you thank you Councillor Brewer as we've done with the case for change we did actually go out to engage with our communities and clinical colleagues as well so we our intention is to absolutely do the same if there are any changes that have been proposed that it will be based on engagement work and the feedback that we get from our public thank you so much and that is very welcome I just wanted to say one thing to to Henry if I might what is a run rate pressure I don't know what that is under finance is it an overspend I'd just be grateful because I don't know what it is thanks so much and that's me finished thank you chair thank you Councillor Brewer thank you very much as for calling us up on using unhelpful non-plain English jargon yeah it just means pressure on the ongoing cost of running the services effectively that are above plan so it usually correlates with with a high demand peaks and troughs in demand so yes it means it just means a excess cost where there is excess some excess demand and pressure on services okay thank you I've got one more question from the chambers of two more actually first of all my apologies for lateness that's fine and I echo your comments the presentations have been very informative and I now come to ill for exchange been mentioned twice this evening I welcome it too there's a positive feedback I live in illford I would access any service today yet but it's policy welcome but if there is a data available please if they could be shared this must have alleviated some of the pressure on local gps certainly in my area do we have any data to how much and in terms of the lease don't know how long that is it's a good service we want to continue it especially if the data is positive thank you thank you very much um Councillor um I'm afraid I don't have the information available with me on the lease length um it's a bit too early for us to say what the impact on other services locally is but we are very excited about the model very happy to share more information about all for the exchange when when we have it and indeed if this committee would like to hear a bit more about the the thinking behind the offered exchange the model and early results then we are um really happy to come back and do that as an appropriate point and what about the lease yeah would that be sent to us yeah thank you thank you very much um Councillor Marshall that's from Essex um I wonder if I could just go back over a couple of points that have been touched on but just for to allude a little bit more page 24 um I think we've already talked a little bit in council boroughs talked a little bit about the looking forward to the winter of 24 25 and you have got three ambitions that you put in the pack and while we are talking about the re reducing the 12-hour wait for emergency departments another ambition is of course to do the 78 of patients being admitted transferred and discharged within four hours it's it's good stuff but can you tell us how um it's all right to say this is what our achievements or what our ambitions are could you tell us how you're intending to do that um could I while you're thinking about that could I just also come to Henry uh Henry um thank you very much for the the financial overview as well my initial reaction to a deficit of the amount that you're talking about it kind of spurs some thoughts in me about how well we are going to be able to perform and provide for our patients given that you don't have the money so I just wondered if you could um explain on item two that you said there about efficiency and cost improvement plans providers reported efficiency slippages of 14.9 million and Bart's and Homerton are expecting to continue with um slippages of 27.7 million could you explain why those costs efficiencies have not been met or just give us a little bit more information as to why they're that because when I read that as I said when I read that Bart's are still continuing to by the end of the year still to be in the deficiency of 27 million makes me wonder whether or not that's really going to have an impact on patients and your ability to be able to fund things for patients thank you very much so should I suggest we pick up the winter planning for questions first Fiona thank you thank you for the questions really helpful so um overall um uh as Fiona Wheeler um who was on um on the meeting earlier um from a BHRUT perspective um and in partnership with place and community and other providers um have a well-established uh program of work um which then links into the kind of northeast London system overview piece so so um I'll just break that down a little bit so um describing the how so the first piece is really around the preventative piece um linking into um prevention of conveyance to hospital by having the right facilities available to patients in the community um but also in addition some of the work that's happening within the emergency department uh in um around staff their processes um and how they actually are worked incredibly hard to move patients from um coming through ed and actually moving into what we call estec or same-day emergency care processes what what does that mean for a patient what that means for a patient is uh that instead of sitting waiting in emergency department for hours for assessment etc they are often either referred um either by the London ambulance service or indeed with the bhr space east of England ambulance service um or gps into an assessment unit where um which is set up with diagnostics pathways and access to specialists so uh really um getting patients to the right place at first time and the second area that again Fiona talked about earlier was around pathways into services um such as clinics etc which they have done a huge amount of work on the third area is um the front end of the hospital which is where um obviously where patients usually enter um is impacted but um if you're not flowing the back end of the hospital so that real focus upon um how teams work together including social care local authority accepted to discharge patients um on time um Fiona did talk about the pressures um in bhr around corridor care etc but a real focus and from the bhr ut team with with partners um in targeting those areas of flow so getting that efficiency and focusing on patient um needs so really detailed um hospital and organizational flow programs supported by emplace um with all those things we talked about um the las perspective and i think um they sent georgia's facility uh that we talked about earlier is a real focus on frail patients so in the outer northeast london area there's a high proportion of older patients so and that's the georgia's facility and also the use of our urgent response service um and virtual wards so again that focus on patients in the right place at the right time so those are some of the details of the work um i think just again to bring to life um what impact that's had we know that type 3 patients so patients who have minor injuries or minor illnesses between 98 and 99 of those patients have consistently been seen within four hours over the last year to 18 months and patients are told as we call type one or more or sicker patients and that has improved um to to in the region about 58 to 59 percent within four hours um and in august um as funeral articulated 78.9 of patients coming into the bhr ut hospitals have been seen in four hours which is actually one of the um one of the best performing um organizations and coming from a very difficult place two years ago so um we are doing the same things across inner northeast london with bart's health and also our homerton colleagues and and again in homerton and they are delivering the plan that they had um had delivered a trajectory for all this is not in isolation and that real importance of um system support but also partnership support um should remain consistent and linked across the pillars the priority pillars which are called out i hope that's um helpful um detail thank you and then that's excellent to just wait for henry yeah absolutely thank you thank you um and thank you council advance for the um for the question which is a very good question and a very fair question and uh i guess it illustrates the um the pressure and the balance that the service is um having to um having to make and the difficult decisions that are having to be made every day and that balance between uh finance and um and performance if you like in terms of being able to deliver the high quality services that we continue to um to to do um we obviously have a uh we have a statutory duty to um to break even and to not to overspend the allocation we're given um but the fact is that where we have significant clinical and patient safety challenges patient safety will always uh come first and will always um uh mean that there are times when when it is difficult to live within the budget that we set so um if i just take um the kind of overall broader economic context um the nhs has received about approximately a one percent above inflation um increase which means that austerity has hit public services across the board but the nhs has largely been protected that's been the narrative from the government the fact is though that a one percent above inflation um increase in in funding compares to what has historically been much closer to three or four percent um above inflation uh allocation of funding so so the nhs is obviously um continuously meets um additional demand on a day-to-day basis and and it becomes more and more challenging particularly given the uh the um coming out of the pandemic and the additional prevalence and challenges that that that entails um so so that balance is one that we are continually having to strike um i i mentioned that there was a a circa 300 million pound of of um savings that needed to be made every year just to keep us uh at that breakeven level which is about five and a half percent um and um as council event says um there are you know we are not able to in all places uh deliver some of those so an example examples of those savings will be that that some of those will be in relation to workforce which is about 70 of our budget uh a good example example of that will be uh trying to uh convert expensive agency costs to permanent staff because there's a the agency carries a premium so the more agency you use and the less permanent stuff you use the more expensive that becomes so trying to to as as far as possible to recruit more um permanent staff and reduce that agency premium obviously uh that's not always easy and we have a shortage of workforce um we are trying to reduce a bank and agency overall so not just converting bank or converting agency to permanent but actually reducing agency and then not having uh having a lower cost uh and fewer people in the hospitals um that is difficult to to manage with but we have seen a continuous growth in our workforce when other systems in london have been able to manage with um with keeping their workforce at the same level or even reducing it so we are trying to learn from uh from the uh examples of others to be able to do that but as i say the continuous pressures of managing uh fluctuating and increasing demand um is is challenging for that i guess i what i would say though is that um all of those savings plans um come with quality impact assessments and equality impact assessments um and uh and as council advance is uh raising that concern about uh will we be able to continue to provide services as it stands um that is uh not something that we would uh we would say is uh is in doubt and we and we continue to provide the same level of services those efficiencies are are providing the same services at a lower cost not not reducing the um the scope of services that are available thank you very much uh henry it's good to hear that uh your statement that the balance that patients will not suffer at the expense of a balance sheet that's and and i wish you well with uh trying to get a balanced budget um i don't think it's going to happen but uh good luck with that then my final question if i may chairman was about firstly i wanted to obviously congratulate pick up the congratulations of the um in in the cancer area of being able to get the reporting for diagnostics down from eleven thousand to zero but that was the backlog could i just ask a question of does that mean now that patients who are waiting for reports about cancer treatment and diagnostics will now actually get their letters and responses in a much more timely fashion i have experienced uh a family member person so i'll declare an interest i've experienced a family member who sat and waited for over eight weeks to get a letter after a cancer uh diagnosis and of course it's a very stressful time so a yes excellent in getting your eleven thousand down to zero but will it continue and could we have some confirmation that that means going forward patients waiting for uh results on their diagnostics will be uh in a much more timely fashion thank you thank you counselor advance um and uh my sympathies to your family member it absolutely is a very stressful and difficult time um for people and speed as you say is very important to people in reducing that uncertainty um i'm afraid that i think um fiona who would have been able to answer that question um had to leave at five o'clock so can i ask if we can take that question away and reply to you in writing please yep that's fine thank you okay so i don't have any further indications from the chamber so at this point can i thank all the speakers um members do you wish to make any recommendations or take any further actions okay sorry just sure sorry just a quick question i mean thank you for everyone on the online for all the presentations i've just got a very quick question for alex and the london ambulance and it was around um i was just looking at the report and i can't see the national target for category one i can see that we're just under eight minutes what is that national target and how when would we meet the target by and how dependent is it on uh the um the hand of the times because i can see a lot the hospitals for example queens and whipscross have 31 minutes 28 minutes and other times which are quite large thank you uh thank you a really good question so the national target is seven minutes for category one um we're just over seven minutes but actually nationally we're doing really well so whilst it is recognizing that it's over the seven minutes we're doing pretty well nationally um i guess the assurance of it's not acceptable to be over but i suppose the assurance is that we don't have um regular patient harm incidents because of that and i mentioned earlier on that we're well embedded with the patient safety framework in london so you know if there was any patient that we thought had come to harm because of a delayed response that's investigating really robust i suppose i hope that answered the first part of your question and the second part is does that or how does that relate to any hospital delays so a first responder in a car um they can be prolonged on seen with a patient waiting for the ambulance to come to them to assist um we do know that there are system pressures right across london right across northeast london which do sometimes delay ambulances being cleared from hospital but what i want to say and it's been recognized by colleagues already other nhs colleagues that all the hard work that is being done every day of the week to make sure ambulances are released back into the community really quickly so that those ambulances can get to our category one responders for example who might be waiting with patients which means they can then go to their next category one call so it's cyclical there's lots of work being done we've got a laser focus on it day by day hour by hour um fiona ash was talked about the sec which is the coordination center which has a london and a regional oversight already so all of those things working together really important but i guess in summary um yeah disappointing that we're over the seven minutes but nationally we're pretty good um and there's loads of system working to make sure that um ambulances are in the community uh as quickly as possible to make sure that everybody can get to those category one patients so i hope that answers the question thanks counselor chadri thank you chair um just um um i checked in the in the um is is didn't come in the presentation about the pop-up clinic in park integrum um if i am not sure that's um because it's a very good project and pop-up clinic any residents comes and they can once go they can check up their nurse and health care assistant and gpa as well but i found one thing is this project the would this service continue my first question and second question is that's today's um i would like to um rather than online um any questions in present i would prefer in future thank you thank you very much for the question counselor i'm sorry the audio went a bit wobbly but i think you were asking about the barkie and daggan and pop-up pop-up clinics run by our primary care colleagues um the funding for some of those was provided from the icb's health inequalities fund um and i know that colleagues in primary care want to review the learning from all of those pop-ups to understand how best to take it forward as you suggest they have been very successful ways of both enabling the community to easily access some primary care support but particularly in getting out and getting to residents who who might otherwise not be so able to access services for instance the black and african african caribbean and specific pop-up that they held and they've also been able to direct local residents to a wide range of other services and so that they know where they can go in future for for for things that that other services might be able to provide thank you very much chad um may i make a general observation if i may we all know that time is precious uh and it's precious for all of us but i do know that um i just wondered if we could uh make sure that in future um that these meetings are set up well in advance and to hear that people have to go away because of their busy lives you know within a set period of time which is not within the set time of of the committee i've noticed on some other committees as well that you know the the overwhelming demand on some of our officers um takes them away before the end of the committee and it was a bit disappointing from the committee's point of view to hear that they had to go away but as i say their time is precious just as our time is precious and the second observation that i make about that is the lack of officers turning up into the chamber as well i would sometimes like to see the officers here in or not always but occasionally here within the chamber because i think i can interact and feel more a collaborative kind of working with them when they're here in the chamber i say that as a time is precious everybody's time is precious sometimes it's better for people to be away on zoom because they have other work to do but as i say it's an observation that i'd like to see some officers here and i'd like to see them possibly allocating their time for this committee thank you very much for those comments and i'll make sure the amenity down um i'm sure our um people on zoom will take note of that also okay so i don't believe i have any other comments or recommendations oh so that just leaves me to thank everyone who contributed to this meeting thank you for all of you who did turn up to the chambers um my notes do say the next meeting is on the 14th of january uh venue to be confirmed so that concludes yeah please do also can we just thank um our chair as well because he stepped in at last minute and he did an amazing job so thank you so much well well safe journey home if you want take care thank you very much [ Silence ]
Transcript
and North East London Joint Health and Overview and Scrutiny Committee. For those of you who may not know me, I am Councillor Robbie Mazur, London Borough of B So this is a hybrid meeting. So can I start off please with introducing members who are in the chamber. So please, can you just announce your name and where your position is within this meeting, please? I'm Councillor Nihil Chavarria, Councillor for Bmoor, Barking and Deganham Council. Thank you. We need to get the microphone on from there. So it's like the Dragonite staff car. Just amazing. I'm Councillor Sonny Brough from Redbridge, represent Newbury Ward, member of the Health Committee in Redbridge and chair of the Policy Development Health Committee in Redbridge. My name is Alex Ewings. I'm the Associate Director of Ambulance Operations from the London Ambulance Service here in North East London. Hi everyone, I'm Councillor Dr Kaz Risby from Epping Forest District Council, also the cabinet portfolio holder for Community Health and Wellbeing, also practicing as a GP in West Essex. Hi, I'm Councillor Paul Robinson from London Borough of Barking and Deganham. I also chair the Health Scrutiny Committee in Barking and Deganham as well. Good evening, I'm Councillor Marshall Vance. I'm the Essex County Councillor representing Essex residents today. Good evening everyone, I'm Councillor Beverley Brewer. I am chair of Health Scrutiny for the London Borough of Redbridge. Sorry, would you like to, would you like to introduce yourself? I know we're slightly late in starting so you've come at an appropriate moment. [inaudible] Richard, Swede and I represent the London Borough of Waltham Forest and I apologise for lateness, got stuck on a bus in some quite serious traffic. I know we've had some IT issues so that's fine. So we do have some people on Zoom, as I mentioned this is a hybrid meeting so I don't know if we can see the people on Zoom. Can we have an introduction from the people on Zoom? Good evening, or afternoon Councillors. I'm Zina Etheridge, I'm the Chair, sorry not the Chair, I'm the Chief Executive of the ICB and I also have my colleague Jo Moss with me. Afternoon, I'm the Chief Strategy and Transformation Officer for the ICB. Thank you. Okay, I'll introduce myself. I'm Paul Calaminas, I'm Chief Executive at North East London Foundation Trust. Hello, I'm Fiona Wheeler, Deputy Chief Exec and Chief Operating Officer at BHIUT. I'm Henry Black, I'm the Chief Finance Officer for the ICB. Thank you. Can I, hang on a minute. Sorry. James is basically first meeting, so it's tricky to get around the way the system works, so he's doing amazing. Okay, so I think we've completed all the introductions, so just as some house notices, can we please switch off any mobiles or any other electronic devices, and in the event of the evacuation, alarm sounding, please make your way down the staircase to the meeting point which is at the flagpoles as you came into the chambers or as you came into the council building. So, again, for those of you who don't really know me, I try to keep my meetings very precise, so if presentations and questions we can keep very concise, so that we do have an opportunity to scrutinize properly, so that's how I operate my meetings and there's nothing more to really say about that. So, the next item is apologies for absence, which I've got Councillor Christine Smith, Councillor Julie Wilks, for which I am substituting, Councillor Robbie Mazir, Councillor Brett Jones, I believe Councillor Mohamed Javed is substituting. Are there any other apologies that we are aware of? Okay, that's fine, that should be recorded in the minutes. Disclosure of interests on any agenda item, that's fine. So, the next item is the previous minutes held on the 25th of July, 24 page 5, are we happy to agree those minutes? Yeah, okay, so that's fine, so at some point during the meeting I'll sign those minutes. So, we now move on to the first main item of business, which is agenda item 5, the health update, which is basically the whole of the agenda, page 9 to 74, so can we have this presented please? Good evening, Chair. If it's all right with the committee, both Fiona Wheeler from BHIUT and Archana Mathur, who isn't able to make herself heard on Zoom, so has just joined me, have to leave at 5 o'clock, which was notified in advance. So, if it's all right with you, I would suggest that we take Fiona's update first, which is on BHIUT, followed by specialised services, because as I say, both of those participants have to leave at 5 o'clock. Yeah, that's fine with me, absolutely fine. Okay, so should we start with Fiona if that's all right and BHIUT? Thank you very much. Thank you, Chair. I'd like to present to you all a brief overview of the performance at BHIUT, that's Queen's Hospital, Rumford and King George Hospital. I think it's probably appropriate to start with a performance update around our emergency department, our A&E departments, and in the news you will notice that A&E departments are extremely busy and have been throughout the summer. August and July were one of our busiest months ever, and however I am very pleased to say that we've remained reasonably robust in terms of performance and the four hour target for our A&E departments for all types, that includes urgent care patients, was at 78.9%. That is a really good standard of care for the majority of patients who attend our A&E departments. However, I do know that, despite all of the best efforts from the staff at both of our hospital sites, I think we recognise that still far too many patients wait too long for assessment, diagnosis and treatment, and in particular during the busiest times, we have found it difficult to get patients out of our A&E departments into beds within the four hour target. So, on the one hand, I'd like to, you know, really to reinforce to you that all the efforts of the hospital are going into making sure emergency care is prioritised, and that is borne out in some of the figures, however, also to recognise the vast amount of work that we still have to do. Most of that patient waiting happens in our corridors and it's become a sort of a term used loosely in the NHS now around corridor care, but I think what's most important to explain here is that one of the biggest reasons for corridor care, particularly at Queen's Hospital, is the fact that the department was built for 120 patients a day and regularly sees just over 300. And so, in a physical way, we do need to modernise, we do need to improve and I think at any given time I'd be very happy at some point to come back and explain and show you our plans for improvement and reconfiguration. The bill for the reconfiguration at Queen's is estimated to be around 35 million, and we have been, along with anyone who will help us, lobbying at every level within the NHS for the green light on funds to support some of that reconfiguration work. Most importantly, that will provide much needed capacity for patients who attend who don't need to be admitted to a bed, and what we call same day emergency care can provide much greater volumes of work and patient care and diagnosis without the need for admitted, admitting patients into bed. So, a much needed development, and something that we are really pushing hard to get underway as soon as is possible. And I would like to mention I note our LAS colleagues are in the chamber. And I recently received our recent parliamentary award around the improvement work that was undertaken at King George's to reduce an ambulance hand over times. And we all know that ambulance hand over times are key to ensuring that a the ambulances can collect from their homes and wherever they have fallen ill. And, but secondly, key to hospitals taking over the ongoing assessment and care of patients who are brought to our A&E departments in ambulances so a really good prestigious award for both LAS and for the King George team, and something to celebrate after what was a really hard winter last year and lots and lots of good work going into that. It would be remiss of me to not mention the mental health pathways in terms of delivery of emergency care to patients who who present with medical as well as mental health issues. And during the month of August 331 patients were referred to our A&E departments through a mental health pathway either through LAS or otherwise. And one of our areas of priority for winter and actually for now, has got to be to continue to work collaboratively with our ICB colleagues and with our partner in delivering mental health care, NELFT, and I know Paul is here and will will be more than happy to talk very eloquently about all the work they're doing around improving mental health care. And, but one of the areas we're focusing on as well is to create physical capacity within both our sites at King George and Queens, and some dedicated space for patients with mental health presentations to improve safety, patient experience and appropriate places for patients to wait for whatever element of care they're waiting for whilst under the care of the A&E department. And again, going back to the capital that is real priority for the system and for BHRUT. And we know that winter's coming. It doesn't feel like the numbers have stopped during the summer and so our next focus our current focus is to really try to make sure that we optimise all of the out of hospital pathways with our partners in primary care, community care and other healthcare provider sectors, and to make sure that we optimise the receipt assessment, diagnosis and treatment of all patients that come through an emergency pathway. And linked to that will be making sure patients are provided with safe and well organised discharge from hospital to create the much needed capacity for new admissions on a daily basis. And we're currently undertaking a perfect week with BHRA, social care and community colleagues in order to really co-design some of the ways through some of the problems that we encounter when trying to discharge patients from hospital. So, lots and lots of examples of collaborative work and a really motivated team. We did do last winter together very well and we've got lots and lots to build on, but lots of connections that we already can rely on to support better patient care during the winter months. And I'll just move on briefly to our elective or planned care scenario. We have a very high waiting list still for planned care. And although it is in a downward trend and we have made some real improvements over the last 12 months, about 89% of the people waiting on our waiting list need to come to an outpatient appointment as opposed to our waiting for surgery. And so of the total 66,000 and a half patients on the waiting list, about 1,400 are waiting for some kind of admitted operation. The rest of them are waiting for our patients and so lots of work going on to increase or improve the time it takes to wait for an outpatient appointment and to provide better care quicker to patients referred from primary care. Lots and lots of opportunities for shared care and for improvements in pathways and we're working with that in our interface meeting with our primary care colleagues where we discuss joint issues, joint problems between the two parts of the healthcare system, and hopefully design better ways of working together that are more streamlined for patients and reduce all sorts of opportunities for waste and activities that aren't valuable in patient care terms. I have undertaken on the last few months many opportunities around getting higher volumes of patients through, sorry just a sec, higher volumes of patients through our Saturday clinics, through high volume operating lists and that all end up reducing the number of patients that have waited over a year for either an operation or an outpatient appointment. And that is a well established program at BHIUT which we plan to continue. Moving on to money, I'm sure you're all fully aware of the current financial scenario within the NHS and we are currently working with a deficit of 18.2 million at the end of August, which is about 9 million averse to plan which is a staggering amount of money at this part of the year. The added burden we have going forward is the ongoing cost of winter, of winter care, and the system being overwhelmed with activity leading to, in some cases unplanned expenditure. However, we have a good program of work around financial recovery. We are well connected with our ICB colleagues and other provider trusts, and we are working through a number of programs to maintain financial resilience and maintain our current spending plan, according to our year end forecast. So, lots to do, lots of difficult situations to discuss in the future, but lots of connectivity with our teams and our partners in the ICB. I'd like to finish, if I may, on cancer before just talking about a couple of strategic areas. Our cancer targets are working well. Our 62 day performance was 74.8% which is short of the 85% target but we are seeing, diagnosing more and more patients every month. Our recent opportunity to open two community diagnostic centres, one in Barking and one forthcoming in Horn Church at St. George's Hospital will deliver 75,000 additional scans, and that's a real cause for celebration across the NHS and will be instrumental in helping us diagnose more patients quicker and particularly on cancer pathways. I would like to mention before I go, a couple of opportunities. The aging well unit at St. George's Hospital is due to open in the next three weeks to patients and that will be focusing on providing aging and frailty care for patients who could otherwise be treated outside the hospital environment. And our aim is to reduce the amount of frail and elderly people who attend A&E as the first point of call for health care. And that will be run and co-designed with our GP colleagues and we're hoping to really embed that in the community and make a real difference to our A&E departments. In other news, our Daisy ward, which is our rehabilitation ward post stroke, recently received gold ward accreditation, and we are currently moving that ward back to the King George site to combine it with some of the other work we're doing around King George's around getting patients well and ready to go home after after illness. I think I will pause there, because I'm probably out of time. Thank you. Thank you very much Fiona. I know you have to leave at five so are there any questions from the chamber so I'll take, sorry I can't remember names but I'll just point sorry for being rude. Thank you Fiona for a very comprehensive report and my question was specifically around the waiting list and you mentioned in your verbal report about, you know, there's lots of work going into treating patients quicker, and in the actual documented report there's mention of innovative ways that the Trust has been, you know, utilising to keep us safe, would you mind sharing some of the strategies to help reduce waiting times. Certainly, I'll give you an example a very, very current example. And with the opening of the women's health hubs we recognise that women's health, and particular waiting lists for gynecology are the biggest in London, and the biggest in terms of health inequality across our system. And we've set up a group session, which can see up to 15 women at one time around continents and your gynecology, and those ladies currently wait around a year for a physio appointment, which is completely unnecessary. And through a group session we can get on the front foot with regard to proactive treatment for those ladies and we're working through that at a rapid speed of knots, it will both reduce the 52 week waiters, it provides better care for women, and provides quicker access to appropriate health care. That's just one example I know we're short for time, and at any point in the future if people want to come and hear about all the work we're doing around that very comprehensive answer will be available. Thank you. Thanks so much for that update. I'm concerned about mental health patients waiting, I think it's 22 hours, we're still at that level, and I know we've talked about it a lot before, and you know you've been reporting that a lot of work is going on, but when are we going to really see improvements because obviously that's a dire situation for all concerned. Thank you. Thanks, Beverly. I appreciate that and I have colleagues on this call. Paul is here as the Chief Exec of Nelft and other colleagues from the system, and maybe, if I may, hand the answer to some of that to the system or to Paul for a more in-depth answer as opposed to the A&E version. Thank you. Chair, I think it's up to you whether or not you want us to talk to this question now, or when Paul does his update on Nelft. I just note that the item on specialised commissioning needs to get to... If I could ask a question from the Chamber, then perhaps we can switch over to Paul. Chair, just very briefly, the presentation on specialised commissioning, the presenter also needs to leave at five o'clock. So we have got an update from Nelft on mental health. Okay, let's go to the presentation then. Yeah, thanks. Hi, everybody. My name is Archa. I'm Director of Specialised Services and Cancer for North East London. Really good opportunity to bring you up to speed with the delegation of specialised commissioning. I'm just going to give a very brief update on what is happening. The reason why the delegation is taking place, a little bit about clinical networks and really the whole rationale for it in terms of impacts on our patients, residents and populations. So specialised services are a broad range of services. There are a huge number of services and they range from some which are quite complex, some that are less complex, some for which there are large volumes of activity and some for which there are lower volumes of activity. Largely, they're driven by innovation, research, new clinical practice and the such like. And they're delivered by hospitals for which they have expert training, equipment and so on and so forth. As we know with these innovations, demand for these services is rising. These services are costly and aligned with our population growth. It's a really important function that statutorily is moving from NHS England to the ICBs. It's a large amount of money as well. Nationally, it's about 15 per cent of the budget and for NHS, Nell ICB, it's about 20 per cent. The change is really happening so that the ICBs are able to look at the totality of those clinical pathways for patients. Right from an intervention, early intervention and prevention in primary care right through to the care and treatment of patients within our acute hospitals. At the moment, with the commissioning with NHS, that has been less. There are less opportunities to be able to do that simply because of proximity to those populations. So the benefits really are allowing us to take a holistic view about the quality of care that we're providing, ensuring that we've got really good access and looking at all of the finances in one hit really in totality. So that is specialised pathways and non specialised pathways all in the round. Associated with the delegation of the actual services, there's also joint commissioning of what we call clinical networks. And these are mandated networks of clinicians. The networks are hosted within our clinical within our providers. And they are really a group of clinicians who work across organisations to help provide expert advice to us on how those services have been commissioned. They're also the people that help develop national service specifications that we all must adhere to and also provide help and support in terms of planning, developing metrics for success and so on and so forth. So it's a really good opportunity for us to work together more closely with our clinicians within these networks. There are other slides that go into a bit more detail about some examples of these. And I draw your attention to the main priorities for specialised services that we have in North East London. They are HIV, liver and hep C, cardiology, renal, sickle cell, neurosciences and complex urogyny. These are all pathways for which we have significant pressure within our system and really need to think about how we provide that care, both upstream within primary care and early intervention and also within our hospitals as well. There are some examples of that work. For example, with HIV, a lot of work on implementing opt out testing within our emergency departments in increasing early diagnosis and so on and so forth. The final slide goes into a little bit more detail about HIV as well. But there are but there are many examples which I'm really happy to talk about at another point in time. In terms of what happens next, there's a little bit of due diligence that needs to be undertaken. We've been doing this work for two years and it's been delayed in London to allow there to allow additional checks and balances for us to really make sure that we're ready to receive this function. So we need to undergo some more due diligence and and then take the formal agreements through our ICB governance, while simultaneously working through the actual work that impacts on our patients and our residents through the transformation work. I'll stop there in the interest of time, but happy to take any questions or queries. Thank you. Thank you. Is there any questions about that before she goes? Being in mind, we've got about four minutes. Yeah, go ahead. You spoke about early diagnosis and opt out testing, but in order to work towards that admiral goal, there would have to be quite wide availability of prep for people who are already infected and known to be infected. I wonder what measures you might be able to take towards this very laudable policy aim. I mean, I can't profess to be an expert in all things HIV. Unfortunately, I might have to take some questions and queries away. It's sufficient to say that those targets have been in place and we are absolutely committed to trying to meet them. The work on the opt out testing in our emergency departments has been really, really exceptional. Fiona will attest as well that in BHIT, they've actually been really progressing with this. And there really haven't been that many issues with regards to prep and the such like. I guess the other thing to highlight about the treatment of HIV and the broader work associated with the delegation of specialized commissioning is our ability to link up much better with our local authority partners aligned to the sexual health strategy that's been developed as well. So I think all in all, that that's going to be a much better assurance all in the round as to how we reach those targets and goals that have been nationally set and determined. Thanks. Okay, so you can depart from your virtual interaction and we'll just go forward with the other presentations now, please. Thank you, Chair, and apologies. We're sharing one laptop because we were having some difficulties getting on to the Zoom link. So you've got some slides in your pack which give a general health update, which I'm obviously not going to talk through because you've got the slides in advance. If you bear with me for one moment, I will. Sorry, because we're switching between people. I'm immediately in front of me. And so the slide pack gives some general updates. It talks about where we are in recruiting chairs to our various NHS acute trusts in North East London. It describes the annual assessment of the NHS England to do of all integrated care boards and points to some further readings if anybody is particularly interested in that. It points to various new practices that we've opened across North East London recently, two of which are in outer North East London. They're really, really exciting developments. And if members haven't had an opportunity to see those practices or those centres as they are more generally, then we'd be happy to arrange for that to happen because they really are great developments. We thought the committee might be interested in some work that we've taken to our board recently looking across North East London at the range. And there is a very substantial amount of it of work on long term conditions. And so it gives you some examples of some of those. And again, points to our board papers, which have got some more detail in there. There are so many things in there that I am not an expert on any of them, but it gives you a quick summary across them. Various other things of note going on in the system we're coming to as part of the agenda, including the financial situation, which has already been talked about, our winter plan and various other specific updates. But that's kind of probably all I need to say from a general perspective. We've got an update to give you on some surgery specifications, which we can go straight into, or I can pause for questions. No, happy to go. Well, I've got one more question, then we go to the other presentations. Yeah, thank you very much. No, it's a very, very interesting report, and I did have sight of it before coming. And the thing that was most eye catching for me was the improving access for local people and the three new health facilities that have been set up. The one in Ilford Exchange particularly was something that I noticed firsthand at the site of the old M&S, which has been closed down. So as I was going through the exchange with my little boy, getting some bigger mix, I saw a really brand spanking shiny new building or signage around there. And the questions that I had were, you know, I think it's fantastic to use kind of space, which otherwise wouldn't wouldn't have been, you know, having a leaseholder. But as far as kind of like the decision to set up a health facility within the shopping centre, what form of sort of scoping exercise or what sort of kind of research had been done as to whether that was an appropriate site? And the second question, which is attached to that is lots of research shows that people when they're out shopping, they consider it therapeutic in its own right. And they don't really want to be disturbed and bombarded with health promotion or public health material, which, you know, is something which has been proved over the country. And as for the actual kind of longevity and the legacy of this health centre, do we have an idea as to how long the lease is or what sort of kind of timeframe we'd expect this to still be kind of up and running for? Thank you very much, Councillor. So there's a lot of detailed questions there. I think in terms of this particular centre, the original idea for it grew out of a vaccination centre. And you might recall thinking back to the pandemic, that we worked really hard to put vaccination centres at the heart of the community to build trust, break down barriers, make it as easy as possible. I think everyone has gone behind getting a range of facilities and there's quite a wide range of different services using the Ilford Exchange. And there are across the country a whole range of different health centres, different health facilities that have been put at the heart of the community to make them accessible for residents. For instance, community diagnostic centres in Wood Green, for instance, there's a community diagnostic centre in the equivalent shopping centre to the Ilford Exchange. And so it is a technique that has worked pretty successfully in a range of places. It is not intended to be a kind of flash in the pan presence in the Ilford Exchange. But your precise questions on length of lease and things like that, I'm afraid I don't have the details to handle. OK, thanks very much. Let's go to the next presentation, I guess. Afternoon. And so I was just going to briefly speak to the slides. I won't repeat all of the detail that's contained in the pack. But this was really just to give the committee an update on a technical piece of work that I'm leading at the moment with colleagues across the system to review the specifications that we have for a number of our surveys. And as part of that work, we think it's really important to engage with local residents and patients. And so we have been doing a piece of work to just make sure that we've listened to and understood from local residents and patients what matters to them when they're accessing surgical services. And we are still at the point of finalising those specifications that sit across seven of the different surgical specialties. And I think it's really important for the committee to note that there will be no changes to the location from which services are provided. This is a piece of technical work that we're doing in the background that just assures us as commissioners that the providers that we are contracting with have the appropriate range of services. And I'll focus on delivering the outcomes that we know matter and clinically, but also socially for our patients. I'm very happy to take further questions if anybody has any. Thank you. OK, thanks. I think what I'll do is go through all the presentations and then have questions at the end of the session. So whoever the next presentation is from. I think we're on to... It would be helpful when matters are referred to, if the page numbers in the pack could be referred to. Thank you, Councillor Sweden. I'm sure we can do that. I think the next part in the pack, and I'm sorry, I'm working off a very small screen because we're using my laptop as the one to access, is the winter update. I think it's on page 22 of the slides and it's Fiona Ashworth who's going to present that. Thank you. Thank you, Zeena. So this is really a high level position of where we are in terms of our winter planning. So last year we did a really comprehensive piece of work on winter to ensure that our hospitals and our community were safe and able to take patients in the most appropriate way. And from that, what we did by the end of the year, we were able to describe over 78% of our population, our patients attending, received the care that they needed within four hours, which was a really significant change. And the paper lays us out. We did a huge amount of work with our ambulance colleagues, with community colleagues, with our place colleagues, to ensure that actually the pathways for patients were located correctly, and we did a huge amount of work on communicating. For this year, the winter plan remains a priority for the system and its partners. We have a new set, if you like, of asks from the national team to keep our patients safe and give good quality care. And where we are currently is we have had two events. We had an event in April and then a further one in June. And by our chief people officer, there was a third event actually in September. So really bringing the whole system together to think about how we provide safe and sustainable care over the winter period. So, in addition to the acute space, we are looking at several areas, and I think it's worth drawing those out. And it's really important to keep our population well, and so we are maximizing the winter vaccination campaign and that is very widely noted right across our system. We want to ensure that we keep our patients safe, so we have done a piece of work around patients with complex and long term conditions so that their care is optimized. To patients, for example, with respiratory or cardiac disease. And as Fiona talked about earlier, we're also doing some work around preventing attendance by having patients access to GPs and also 111 and pharmacists. And then at system level, we are also looking at discharge as a priority. So how do we make sure that as a patient is ready for discharge, they are discharged from the acute provider into a community facility or to home. Last year, we talked about a system coordination center and the function of the coordination center is that we've got a real whole system visibility of where there is pressure, but also where there is capacity across our systems. This is both outer and inner Northeast London, and that has really matured over the last year really giving us a sense of actually how we work together in partnership, particularly where there is pressure. And then finally, just around what we call the 10 high impact interventions. These are just measures of actually how mature processes and the system are in making sure that we've got the right things in place for our population and our patients. We are in the second year of the UEC program, and what we've drawn out in summary on page 24, I think, is around how we are planning to keep patients well and safe. And we've summarized that so you can see the priorities for us. So in terms of next steps, we are continuing to develop our winter plan. We have an event with our chief operating officers right across the system for acute and mental health. In the next days, we are looking at our children and young people in terms of their needs. We are of course anticipating and observing any impact of GP collective action, which at this point we have seen little impact at this point, but also recognizing we have pressures in terms of our flow around local authority budgets. And finally, just to say we do ask the JSC to help and support us with all our endeavors for the right care and winter campaign to ensure that our population and our patients are vaccinated this year to keep them well. And also to prevent obviously a tendency into urgent emergency care, so that we can prevent overflow and challenge in relation to some of the areas around patient groups. Thank you, Councillors. Thank you. So can we have the next presentation, please? I believe that will be Finance Councillor from Henry Black. Thank you very much. Hello, everyone. My name is Henry Black. I'm the Chief Finance and Performance Officer for Northeast London ICB. I will talk you through just briefly, we've put one slide, which should be page 27 in your pack, which gives a snapshot of the financial position at month five. Fiona briefly mentioned the BHIUT financial position as being extremely challenged earlier, and that is the case across the whole of Northeast London, but across the NHS and public services as a whole. So we, as at month five, which is the August performance data, we had an 87.2 million deficit, which is about 53 million variance from plan, so adverse variance. This is a position which has been fairly stable throughout the year in the sense that we have had a posted deficit cumulatively every month. At month five, we have seen a slowing down of that variance, which is good news. So the financial position is beginning to stabilise, which is a reflection of all the hard work that is being put in across all organisations as we work towards our financial recovery. We do have early sight of the month six numbers as well. That's the September numbers. They haven't yet been through internal board governance for the organisations, but there does appear to be a continued improvement in the run rate and a slowing down of the deficit. But the position continues to be extremely challenged. So the main drivers of that, we had ongoing industrial action, which was a particular issue last financial year, less of an issue now. And thankfully, most of the industrial action disputes have been progressed, most but not all. And there is a 7.6 million cost to the system for the cost of industrial action. A further million pounds, roughly, on the cyber attack that took place in the south-east of London and that had a knock-on impact on some of our providers, including BART. The main drivers of the pressures, though, continue to be the fact that we started the year with a very, very challenging set of cost improvement programs. We have about almost 300 million of assumed savings to be delivered within our overall system envelope. And so that was about 5.5% of our total turnover. So that has been very challenging and there have been some areas where that has not been possible to deliver in full, partly because of the challenges around industrial action. Other pressures include high occupancy within mental health beds, which has resulted in a higher than expected use of private sector beds, which are very expensive. We have very extreme pressure in the renal dialysis, which is a specialized commissioning or a specialized service. Again, very expensive. And we have had just general pressures on bank staff for where we have additional acuity of patients on the wards and corridor care, which is not good for patients, but also very expensive. The main areas that we are targeting to reduce the run rate pressures are around use of high expensive premium agency. And it's good to see that we have made significant inroads in that we still have a high rate of agency, but it is significantly lower than it was in previous years. And that is the key area that we need to work on to reduce our overall pay bill and work is ongoing between the chief people officers, the chief nursing officers and the chief medical officers to deliver that. So that's the position as at month five, and I'll pause there. Okay, thanks very much. Happy to move on to the next presentation. Thank you, Councillor, and I believe we're next up, we're due to hear from London Ambulance Service who I think are there in the chamber with you. Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Councillors. It's lovely to be here with you this evening. I'm Alex Hughes, I'm the Associate Director of Ambulance Operations for the London Ambulance Service in North East London. And so I'm going to give you a quick run through of the report that we provided it from starts on title page London Ambulance Service performance report in the pan. So there's definitely some positive news to talk about this evening, and we've got some opportunities, but there are also some challenges to recognise as well. We are the busiest UK Ambulance Service. We take over two million 999 calls per year, and we are the only provider that covers pan London, and I'm here today because I'm responsible for ambulance operations in North East London. So that's obviously what I'm going to talk to you about this evening. So our response times for category one, which are our immediately life threatening patients and cat two patients, which is slightly less, but still emergency and urgent, have improved in the month leading to August. And it's really pleasing to note that of late particularly, the North East London category two number is predominantly below the London mean, which is really good because that's definitely an improved position. Our hear and treat number is also consistently good at about 20%, which puts us first or second against other UK Ambulance Services and that's the patients that we can successfully deal with over the phone, give them advice, referrals and essentially close the 999 call without the dispatch for an ambulance, but the patient still gets really good governed high quality care from our expert clinicians. So our cat two performance, certainly for August, remained under the 30 minute agreed target at 29 minutes eight, which was excellent. But I do want to recognise that we do have challenges in certain boroughs in North East London, there is a performance gap of about 15 minutes between the outer North East London boroughs which do better compared to some of the inner boroughs, so sitting Hackney Tower Hamlets, etc. And what we are doing about that is focusing more staff into those areas, and we have a laser focus on a daily and a weekly basis on practical terms such as you know production and management of our people resource. And so I do want to recognise to the committee that September has been a difficult month for us, our category two response time went up to 40 minutes. But that was still below the London figure of a 42 minute mean for the London Ambulance Service across all areas. As it's already been mentioned, we are continuing to work with all our partners across the ICS area to particularly to reduce delays in handing over patient care at hospitals, and has already been mentioned by we mentioned again because it's great news. We were joint meetings with colleagues from King George's Ilford for the NHS parliamentary awards, so just want to mention that again. The percentage of patients that we conveyed to hospital is consistent, there isn't actually a target or a commission target for this, but it's about 50% of the patients that we see face to face we conveyed to hospital. Now, I want to distinguish that from just being one in two of all patients because it's not because we take about 7,999 calls a day, a number of those patients are successfully transferred across to 111, where they have hear and treat we do our own successful treat figures as well. And then all the patients we see face to face it's about 50% which is really consistent so it's quite a good figure and just to recognise as well that the patients that we see are sicker and are more complex as well. But clearly we're using as many pathways and other referral avenues that we can to safely keep patients out of ED wherever that's possible. And just something else really just about our people in our workforce. Just over the last 12 months we introduced a new concept of team based working. So if you think of our compare it to the fire service where everyone I think would know that they work as a watch. So, red watch blue watch etc. We now do something very similarly, internally with the London Ambulance Service and the real benefit of that is that our teams will come on shift together, they'll be on shift with their manager every day. They have dedicated training time built into their own. And there's lots of science behind why that is good for people and then obviously good for patients because we learn together we train together. And ultimately, it's the teams of ambulance crews that are going out to patients together, day in day out. So I think, you know, on reflection as well of that we are an excellent learning organisation internally where we were an early implementer of the patient safety framework, which is relatively new in the NHS we're an early implementer so we're well into that now. But I think one of the reflections and as has been mentioned, it's about what we can do better with external partners to learn across the system, not just internally but looking externally as well. Finally, just a plug, if I may, the BAFTA award winning series BBC Ambulance starts again tonight on BBC One at nine o'clock. And I'm really proud to say it features the London Ambulance Service related series so please do give that watch, it features staff and patients from North East London. Thanks very much. We've got next. Thank you chair, it will be Paul Calaminas giving the NELFT updates. Thank you. Thank you very much. So, this is in the pack from page 41. And really, we've, we've put this in reflecting all the work in both mental health and community health collaboratives. If maybe I start with mental health. Obviously I won't go through everything that's in the pack but maybe if I begin with some of the pressures in the mental health crisis services and mental health crisis pathway. So Fiona already made mention of some of the experiences of some of our patients in emergency departments. And Henry too made mention of the fact that we are needing to use additional beds on a daily basis to be able to provide care for all of the outer North East London residents who need admission to hospital. Today we have 51 people in additional beds to give you a scale of the numbers that we are talking about. And we are not in a position where we have a lot of people blocking our beds. So sometimes you hear the kind of, you know, you know, sometimes what's going on is that people, it's difficult to admit people because there are lots of people waiting for discharge. Certainly, we're not in that, generally speaking, we are not in that position. What we are seeing is a lot of people presenting into mental health services unfortunately in crisis for the very first time. So on our latest audit of that, 70% of the people presenting to emergency departments in crisis were new to mental health services. And very sadly, usually presenting in huge amounts of social crisis relating to family, income, housing and employment and feeling really frankly at the end of their tether. In outer North East London, that is over the last few months also, sorry, excuse me, affecting more women than men. And so we have seen a real increase in that level of distress amongst women in the population. We do have plans in place to try and address this. One of the key elements of the plan actually is alongside the physical space that Fiona mentioned is to create a mental health, essentially a mental health emergency department space on the Goodmains Hospital site. Because that would, that really would help us bring people into a different sort of environment, do more detailed assessment work away from the emergency department space. And put in place plans, you know, really help us try and put in place plans to work with those people. Clearly in the more medium term, or as quickly as we can, but I think in the more medium term realistically, we need to be really trying to engage and work with people before they reach the point of crisis. Because there are clear issues with that number, that percentage of people arriving in mental health crisis not being in touch with mental health services in any way, shape or form. For folks who are in touch with us, you know, the use of that type of crisis is much, much, much less frequent. We do also have a new crisis line offer, so dialling NHS 111 and then asking for option two will bring everyone through to a mental health crisis line that is staffed 24 hours a day with mental health professionals and can also link people to their local crisis response teams or community health, community mental health teams. And we have also in the last few months opened additional mail bed capacity on the Goodmay site, along with some additional section, what is called section 136 capacity, which has certainly helped, particularly I think the experience at King George's A&E, with making sure that we're able to offer space on the Goodmay site for people being brought in by the police. And that's in conjunction with a new advice line we've opened for police colleagues to really try and enable them to get advice from a mental health professional at the point of deciding whether or not they're going to use that section of the mental health act. If you don't mind, I would just like to also pick out from the mental health side of this presentation, the work that's been done around assertive community treatment and re-looking at some of the approaches to that. That's a national piece of work. It follows on from the very, very tragic incident involving students and a caretaker in Nottingham and a service user called Valdo Callicane. And across the country, we have been doing a piece of work on, you know, the group of people within the community for whom we need to engage more assertively. That so far has led to some, you know, some analysis of our caseloads, some gap analysis of that. And we are now working up with our service users, with our patients, the response to that for local services. I did, if you don't mind sharing the mental health side, finally just want to just draw the committee's attention to the fact that within the collaborative, we actually have some priorities that are set by our patients. And I did just want to draw the committee's attention to that because they were really explicit attempts to make sure that we are focusing on things that really matter to people. And we are really trying to keep that out of the centre of the work we do. In terms of performance, I think the couple I would probably have picked out are also to note that particularly for out of North East London, the proportion of the population we're able to offer talking therapies to has really very significantly increased and we are really reliably able to offer a very prompt response to referrals there. People do in thousands, thousands of people self-refer into that service and it's available on phone, online and face to face. And then to note too that physical health checks, which is a hugely important part of the work of mental health services, given that the most severely mentally ill people in society tend to die 10 years younger than their peers at least, has really very, very significantly improved in out of North East London, such that we're now amongst the highest performing areas in the country. On the community health side, again, I won't repeat everything that's in the pack. I won't repeat everything that Xena alluded to in terms of long term conditions, because obviously there is a lot of work there. And I know it's been touched on already, but I really would just want to make sure that I mentioned the Ilford exchange, which has obviously been opened. St George's, which is due imminently to come online and also the opening of Bean Park the other day, the new health centre in Bean Park, which I think will be an important community resource. So that was really just to pick some highlights, Chair, from the report. Thank you, Chair. Our last update is on maternity, which would be given by Diane Jones, and I will swap places with her so that you can see her now. Hi there. Good evening, everybody. My name's Diane Jones and I'm the Chief Nursing Officer for the ICB. I'm just presenting the engagement that we did around our maternity services, looking at the case for change. So, what we saw was that we wanted to understand what were the changing needs of our population and the residents of North East London. And we knew that we could see that there was going to be an increase and we looked at that against our current maternity services. More importantly, we wanted to engage with the public to understand what was their experience of maternity services and what would they like to see in the future, whether it's for themselves or for others. So we did a piece of work around reaching out through to lots of our communities. We did focus groups and we also did online survey as well. Some of the key things we were asking was, is there a need to do something different based on your experiences? We had lots of respondents that came through and I think about 64 percent were people that have had a baby in North East London or family members of that individual. And then we had lots of feedback from staff as well. That piece of work helped us to shape, give us the answers we needed in terms of the case for change. So it helped to tell us that people knew that we needed to do something different. They wanted us to do something different and they understood why we might need to do something different based on the fact that we can see that our population is growing and that there's more demand on our maternity and neonatal services as well. So from that, we've taken information, we've looked at the numbers in terms of the current demand on services, the current types of ways that women and pregnant people are giving birth. And that's helping us to start to shape what could be the opportunities for how we deliver maternity services in the future. Some of the key things that we heard people say was that they wanted greater continuity in the antenatal period and the postnatal period. Quite often the birthing experience tends to be good, if not better, because they get one to one care whilst they're having the baby. What women find is that when they get to the postnatal period that they feel lost, they feel as though there's not enough support, particularly when it comes to breastfeeding. So some of the feedback that we've had is around breastfeeding support. It's been the handover, the transition with health visitors and also where you may have a child with extra needs, additional needs that may go into a neonatal unit. What's the support that they can be given? At this stage, what we're doing is sharing the case for change. We're sharing the engagement that we've done. And we're wanting to go forward with looking at what the opportunities are to change and reconfigure how we deliver maternity services so that we have the right care in the right place for our pregnant population. And that takes you to the end of our presentations. All right. Thanks, all of you who did give a presentation. Very informative. So I'm just going to open up to the committee in the chambers now who have any questions. Go ahead. Sorry. Thanks very much, Erin. And thank you to all of the presenters for really, really detailed reports and great verbal reports. So I'll just punch up my questions one by one. So the first one that I had was for Henry from a finance point of view. And Henry, you touched on your report that one of the key drivers behind the budget deficit was, or the overspending rather, was industrial action. And I believe the report relates to month five, which correlates to August. Industrial action as far as the junior doctor strikes was concerned. I think the last of them was on the second of July. So I wonder what sort of factors from the industrial action would have kind of led on to month five, which was August. And if you wouldn't mind giving us a bit more info about that. And then the second question was to Alex and great to see you here in the chamber. You touched on Alex about the performance gap for category two ambulances in inner London. So a city in Hackney and Tower Hamlets. And I do wonder if some of the 15 minute kind of delays that we see in those areas, whether they're sort of possibly related to the kind of 20 miles per hour speed restrictions that they've got on that side compared to where we are in Havering at the moment. So I would just be interested to know what some of the determinants behind the kind of increase in response times for CAT 2s are. And those are just my two questions. Thank you very much. And I'll be very quick because Councilor is right to note that there was no industrial action August the, the numbers that I provided with the year to date position for month one to five so the for the full year, up to August so the 7.6 million was, it was incurred earlier in the year but it's it's included in the total figures for the period, year to date so so that the deficit is not presented as the deficit in August, it's the year to date for the whole of the up to between first of April and 31st of August. Thank you, Councilor for your question. So I'm a paramedic by professional background and having worked around city in Hackney, Homerson, Camden, Islington, so I do know that it can be really challenging for our staff to get around those boroughs. And whilst I couldn't directly attribute it to 20 mile an hour zones or LTNs etc. It definitely is a challenge space to get around so yes I would say that just from a practical perspective. And that does certainly add to some of the difficulties that our teams face when getting around London, and in other areas as well. I know that we have a rotating chair but I mean I could suggest, if possible, in future, whether we would be able to go through the themes and ask questions as we go along, rather than having all of the information in one go. Because obviously then you're able to ask personal questions at the point onto that topic. So, and also I don't want to bombard everybody with all of my questions in one go. So I prepared my questions in advance in relation to the page references and how we will proceed. And so now I've got them all lined up which obviously doesn't feel very good. So, I mean, I can read them all out if you like, but probably they'll be forgotten about it, we get to the end. So I had, I did have questions about NHS England annual assessment of the Northeast London ICB starting on page 11 of the report, and I was disappointed to see that the ICB has failed to spend funds from the system development program, which is aimed at supporting GP practices and primary care networks. That was a big concern for me because I think our GPS need as much support as they possibly can get in these difficult times, and to think that there was money allocated that wasn't spent. So I'd like to know why. And I want to have some assurance please that the ICB will do more to support general practice and PCNs this year. And in relation to that, I also saw under again that same item there's been a 39% increase in 12 hour breaches and ED departments. I'd like assurance about that please, and what we can do to eliminate these very long waits. So I thought I'd ask these questions under that, and then move on to winter planning. Thank you. Chair, would you like me to come in and respond, pick up those two at this point? Yeah, please do. Thank you. So on SDF and primary care spending, Councillor Brewer, project funding and funding like SDF is a little bit like capital funding. It's not always within our gift to spend it within the year because sometimes projects start a little late, although I recognise your frustration. It is a little while since I read the full assessment of the ICB, so I'm really happy to take that question away and provide you with some more details in writing. On 12 hour waits in our emergency departments, you heard from Fiona earlier on about the challenges at the HIUT and you heard from Paul about the very high volume of demand for the mental health crisis pathway at the moment. We are seeing all the way across the system in North East London, but also in London as a whole that we are seeing this very challenging set of demands. Now, as is absolutely implicit in your question, that is really, really not what we want for our patients. Once we get to delays of that sort of length, there is significantly more risk of harm to those patients and some of those people are waiting for a health assessment. That is quite a small number overall and others are waiting for, you know, kind of other sort of physical health assessments. So all the way across the system, we are doing a lot of work on understanding the reasons for those and what else we need to do. We've got a system wide piece of work on flow through our hospitals and flow through our mental health trusts because the best way that we can deal with a lot of those delays is not what happens in ED per se, but getting the flow through hospitals working most effectively and coupled with ensuring that we're doing everything we can to prevent people from needing to go to our emergency departments in the first place. Some of the measures that Fiona talked about earlier on in relation to the winter plan are absolutely to tackle some of those long waits. I had some questions on winter planning as well. One was on the ambulance response times, I know we've discussed that a little, but I see there's a 30 minute target. Obviously, we would want to have 18 minutes for Class Review 2 response times, which are the national targets, so be grateful for some more clarity about when we can have more alignment with that. We have talked about, well, I did ask the question, but I haven't had an answer yet about emergency department waits for mental health patients, which currently stand at 22 hour averages and BHRUT. So I would like that to be picked up here now because that's obviously very concerning indeed. And also, I was concerned, my third question on winter planning, on page 25, there's a reference to commissioning beds from the independent sector to provide alternatives to mental health or hospital bedded provision. So could I ask for clarification about that, please? And I thought it was policy to reduce the use of independent sector beds for mental health. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor, I'm going to suggest that Fiona Ashworth picks up your question specifically about the winter plan, but Paul Calaminas comes in on the mental health questions, if that's all right. Thank you, Gina. I'll respond to the category 2 and ambulance offloads piece if that's okay to start with. So across North East London, we've made really significant improvements in our ambulance offloads in order to release those ambulances back to the community over the last year. So currently, in 45 minutes, we are delivering at about 60% of our patients being offloaded in that time. And whilst that isn't ideal, that has been quite a step change. And also, of course, Alex talked earlier about our performance about category 2 response, so that's actually ambulance being able to respond to patients still waiting in the community. So we have made some real inroads. What we are currently doing is working as part of winter planning and beyond to look at actually how we can continue to build on that. So, in relation to actually working as a system of actually where we may sign other patients to alternative pathways, but also working on expanding what actions we can take collectively to improve our position. In terms of next steps with that, we have Matthew Trainor, who is one of our chief executives, needs on a piece of work, looking at a more strategic solution, again, to enable a sustainable response to our ambulance, our ambulance provision, our offloads. And we work very closely with Alex, who's obviously in chambers at this time. And I'm happy to pause at that point. And perhaps if I could just say a couple of words on the mental health side. So you're quite right, Councillor, it is policy. Absolutely what we would all want to do is to not use additional private sector beds and make sure that people from out of office and in boroughs are treated in local beds. As I say, we are unfortunately using more private sector beds at the moment than we were a year ago. And that is being driven by demand in mental health crisis. We do, as I say, we do have some plans that we are enacting to try and help us address that. So, for example, we are right in the middle of opening an additional crisis house in the borough of Redbridge. That will give us some additional capacity to respond for people who are in crisis. And as I say, we are establishing a mental health crisis centre at Goodmays, which will give us an additional element of capacity too. But I suppose my hesitation is that if we continue to see people coming new into service in crisis for mental health, some of the factors behind using those additional beds and some of the factors behind waiting times in the department are going to be hard to, in the short term, to eradicate completely because it is that level of crisis presentation that is driving both the use of beds and some of the waiting time issues. The other thing I think I'd say about waiting times is that they do also often relate to the complexity of people as they come into the department. As I perhaps rather inarticulately tried to describe, there are a range of factors for people, both social factors and physical factors, as well as mental health factors, that we do have to work through or for and assess and work with each individual patient for. They can quite often, in all honesty, also be compounded by substance use. And so we do quite often find that by the time we have done a thorough piece of work to really assess and try and understand and work out what the right destination for somebody is, it can take some considerable amount of time. And of course, we don't want to do inadequate assessment work and we don't want to rush that because we can end up with people in mental health beds or under the Mental Health Act, when actually we could put some other plan and approach in place. So we really are working hard to try and reduce that amount of time. But as I say, some of those factors are really quite complex and some of this does rely actually on enough bed capacity and how we can create that. As I say, we do have plans in place. We are opening some of those additional crisis beds, but many of these people are new to service. Had two of the questions, one on mental health and one on maternity. That's OK. I just wondered, with the mental health, I welcome the work that the collaboration has done on this, but I can't see anything that's being delivered for learning disability and autism. When will this happen, please? Yes, I thank you very much for picking me up and that I should have talked about the work in learning disabilities. So I've obviously made reference in the report to a number of areas. This year, we have implemented our intensive support team for learning disabilities. So that is now up and running. We have also introduced a number of we've now got a couple of sensory rooms on the wards at Goodmay specifically for people with autism and learning disabilities. And we are just creating the capacity to create another one. And we also are in the position where we have now employed a set of key workers specifically to work in the community and into inpatient services with people with both autism and learning disabilities as part of the work to try and improve improve their quality of life and the quality of the service that the NHS offered them. And finally, we have also under this heading, and particularly thinking about physical health of people with a learning disability, being able to expand the offer into some of the residential and other accommodation for people with a learning disability in particular, that focuses on their physical health, helping them understand their physical health. And really with a view to try to make sure that all the health checks are completed and that people are getting timely access to physical health care. Thank you for that. That is, that is welcome. And I just wanted to ask with the maternity and neonatal presentation, when we'll have a timetable for the next step with the process. I'd like to ask for assurance that there'll be genuine consultation on any proposed changes, and that we will not have recommendations presented as a fait accompli. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor Brewer. As we've done with the case for change, we did actually go out to engage with our communities and clinical colleagues as well. So we, our intention is to absolutely do the same, if there are any changes that have been proposed that it will be based on engagement work and the feedback that we get from our public. Thank you so much. That is very welcome. I just wanted to say one thing to Henry, if I might. What is a run rate pressure? I don't know what that is under finance. Is it an overspend? I'd just be grateful because I don't know what it is. Thanks so much. And that's me finished. Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Councillor Brewer. Thank you very much for calling us up on using unhelpful non-plain English jargon. Yeah, it just means pressure on the ongoing costs of running the services effectively that are above plan. So it usually correlates with a high demand, peaks and troughs in demand. So yes, it just means an excess cost where there is excess demand and pressure on services. OK, thank you. I've got one more question from the chambers. Two more, actually. First of all, my apologies for late night. And I echo your comments. The presentations have been very informative. And I now come to Ilford Exchange. It's been mentioned twice this evening. I welcome it too. There's a positive feedback. I live in Ilford. I don't access any services there yet, but it's always welcome. But if there is a data available, please, that could be shared. This must have alleviated some of the pressure on local GP, certainly in my area. Do we have any data to how much? And in terms of the lease, I don't know how long that is. It's a good service. We want to continue it, especially if the data is positive. Thank you. Thank you very much, Councillor. I'm afraid I don't have the information available with me on the lease length. It's a bit too early for us to say what the impact on other services locally is, but we are very excited about the model. Very happy to share more information about Ilford Exchange when we have it. And indeed, if this committee would like to hear a bit more about the thinking behind the exchange, the model and early results, then we are really happy to come back and do that as an appropriate point. And what about the lease? Yeah. Would that be sent to us? Thank you. Thank you very much, Councillor Marshall-Vence from Essex. I wonder if I could just go back over a couple of points that have been touched on, but just to allude a little bit more, page 24. I think we've already talked a little bit, and Councillor Brewer has talked a little bit about the looking forward to the winter of 24, 25, and you have got three ambitions that you've put in the pack. And while we are talking about reducing the 12-hour wait for emergency departments, another ambition is, of course, to do the 78% of patients being admitted, transferred, and discharged within four hours. It's good stuff, but can you tell us how? It's all right to say this is what our achievements or what our ambitions are. Could you tell us how you're intending to do that? While you're thinking about that, could I just also come to Henry? Henry, thank you very much for the financial overview as well. My initial reaction to a deficit of the amount that you're talking about, it kind of spurs some thoughts in me about how well we are going to be able to perform and provide for our patients, given that you don't have the money. So I just wondered if you could explain on item two that you said there about efficiency and cost improvement plans, providers reported efficiency slippages of 14.9 million, and Bart's and Homerton are expecting to continue with slippages of 27.7 million. Can you explain why those cost efficiencies have not been met, or just give us a little bit more information as to why they're that? Because when I read that, as I said, when I read that Bart's are still continuing to, by the end of the year, still to be in the deficiency of 27 million, it makes me wonder whether or not that's really going to have an impact on patients and your ability to be able to fund things for patients. Thank you very much. Let's just pick up the winter planning questions first Fiona. Thank you, thank you for the questions, really helpful. So overall, as Fiona Wheeler, who was on the meeting earlier, from a BHRUT perspective, and in partnership with PLACE and community and other providers, have a well established programme of work, which then links into the kind of Northeast London system overview piece. Right, so I'll just break that down a little bit, so describing the how. So the first piece is really around the preventative piece, linking into prevention of conveyance to hospital by having the right facilities available to patients in the community. But also, in addition, some of the work that's happening within the emergency department, around staff, their processes, and how they actually work incredibly hard to move patients from coming through ED, and actually moving into what we call SDEC or same day emergency care processes. What does that mean for a patient? What that means for a patient is, instead of sitting waiting in emergency department for hours for assessment, etc, they are often either referred either by the London Ambulance Service or indeed with the BHR space, the East of England Ambulance Service, or GPs into an assessment unit, which is set up with diagnostics, pathways and access to specialists. So really getting patients to the right place first time. The second area that again Fiona talked about earlier was around pathways into services such as clinics, etc, which they have done a huge amount of work on. The third area is the front end of the hospital, which is obviously where patients usually enter, is impacted if you're not flowing the back end of the hospital. So that real focus upon how teams work together, including social care, local authority, etc, to discharge patients on time. Fiona did talk about the pressures in the BHR around corridor care, etc, but a real focus from the BHR UT team with partners in targeting those areas of flow. So getting that efficiency and focusing on patient needs. So really detailed hospital and organisational flow programmes supported by Place. With all those things we talked about the LAS perspective and I think the St George's facility that we talked about earlier is a real focus on frail patients. So in the outer North East London area, there's a higher proportion of older patients. So that's St George's facility and also the use of our Urgent Response Service and virtual wards. So again that focus on patients in the right place at the right time. So those are some of the details of the work. I think just again to bring to life what impact that's had. We know that Type 3 patients, so patients who have minor injuries or minor illnesses, between 98 to 99% of those patients have consistently been seen within four hours over the last year to 18 months. And patients are told, as we call Type 1 or more or sicker patients, that has improved to in the region about 58 to 59% within four hours. And in August, as Fiona articulated, 78.9% of patients coming into the BHR UT hospitals have been seen in four hours, which is actually one of the best performing organisations coming from a very difficult place two years ago. So we are doing the same things across inner North East London with Bart's Health and also our Homerton colleagues. And again in Homerton, they are delivering the plan that they had delivered a trajectory for. All this is not in isolation and that real importance of system support but also partnership support should remain consistent and linked across the pillars, the priority pillars which are called out. I hope that's helpful detail. Thank you. That's excellent. Just wait for Henry. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. And thank you, Councillor Vance, for the question, which is a very good question and a very fair question. And I guess it illustrates the pressure and the balance that the service is having to make and the difficult decisions that are having to be made every day. And that balance between finance and performance, if you like, in terms of being able to deliver the high quality services that we continue to do. We obviously have a, we have a statutory duty to break even and to not to overspend the allocation we're given. But the fact is that where we have significant clinical and patient safety challenges it patient safety will always come first and will always mean that there are times when, when it is difficult to live within the budget that we set. So, if I just take the kind of overall broader economic context, the NHS has received about approximately a 1% above inflation increase which means that austerity has hit public services across the board but the NHS has largely been protected that's been the narrative from the government. The fact is though that a 1% above inflation increase in funding, compares to what has historically been much closer to three or 4% above inflation allocation of funding so, so the NHS is obviously continuously meets additional demand on a day to day basis and, and it becomes more and more challenging particularly given the, the coming out of the pandemic and the additional prevalence and challenges that that that entails. And so, so that balance is one that we are continually having to strike. And I mentioned that there was a circuit 300 million pound of savings that needed to be made every year just to keep us at that break even level which is about five and a half percent. And as Council event says, there are, you know, we are not able to in all places, deliver some of those. So an example examples of those savings will be that some of those will be in relation to workforce which is about 70% of our budget. A good example example of that will be trying to convert expensive agency costs to permanent staff because there's an agency carries a premium so the more agency you use and the less permanent stuff you use the more expensive that becomes. So trying to, as, as far as possible to recruit more permanent staff and reduce that agency premium. Obviously, that's not always easy and we have a shortage of workforce. We are trying to reduce bank and agency overall so not just converting bank and or converting agency to permanent but actually reducing agency and then not having, having a lower cost, and fewer people in the hospitals. That is difficult to manage with but we have seen continuous growth in our workforce when other systems in London have been able to manage with with keeping their workforce at the same level or even reducing it so we are trying to learn from. From the examples of others to be able to do that but as I say the continuous pressures of managing fluctuating and increasing demand is is challenging for that. I guess I what I would say though, is that all of those savings plans, come with quality impact assessments and equality impact assessments and, and as council advances, raising that concern about, will we be able to continue to provide services as it stands, that is not something that we would, we would say is in doubt and we and we continue to provide the same level of services those efficiencies are providing the same services that are lower cost not not reducing the scope of services that are available. Thank you very much, Henry it's good to hear that your statement that the balance that patients will not suffer at the expense of a balance sheet that's, and I wish you well with trying to get a balanced budget. I don't think it's going to happen but good luck with that. My final question if I may chairman was about. Firstly, I wanted to obviously congratulate pick up the congratulations of the in the cancer area of being able to get the reporting for diagnostics down from 11,000 to zero but that was the backlog. Could I just ask a question of, does that mean now that patients who are waiting for reports about cancer treatment and diagnostics will now actually get their letters and responses in a much more timely fashion. I have experienced a family member person, so I'll declare an interest I've experienced a family member who sat and waited for over eight weeks to get a letter after a cancer diagnosis, and of course it's a very stressful time. Yes, excellent in getting your 11,000 down to zero, but will it continue and could we have some confirmation that that means going forward, patients waiting for results on their diagnostics will be in a much more timely fashion. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor Vance, and my sympathies to your family member, it absolutely is a very stressful and difficult time for people and speed, as you say, is very important to people in reducing that uncertainty. I'm afraid that I think Fiona who would have been able to answer that question and had to leave at five o'clock. So can I ask if we can take that question away and reply to you in writing, please. Yep, that's fine. Thank you. Okay, so I don't have any further indications from the chamber so at this point, can I thank all the speakers, members, do you wish to make any recommendations or take any further actions. Sorry. Sorry, just a quick question I mean thank you for everyone on the online for the presentation so it's got a very quick question for Alex and the London Ambulance and it was around. I was just looking at the report and I can't see the national target for category one, I can see that we're just under eight minutes. What is that national target and how, when would we meet the target by and how dependent is it on how many times because I can see a lot of the hospitals, for example, Queens and Whips Cross have 31 minutes, 28 minutes and other times which are quite large, are they on that. Thank you. Thank you, a really good question. So the national target is seven minutes for category one. We're just over seven minutes but actually nationally, we're doing really well. So whilst it is recognizing that it's over the seven minutes, we're doing pretty well nationally. I guess the assurance of, it's not acceptable to be over, but I suppose the assurance is that we don't have regular patient harm incidents because of that and I mentioned earlier on that we're well embedded with the patient safety framework in London so you know if there was any patient that we thought had come to harm because of a delayed response, that's investigating really robust and so I hope that answers the first part of your question. And the second part is, does that or how does that relate to any hospital delays. So, a first responder in a car, they can be prolonged on scene with a patient waiting for the ambulance to come to them to assist. We do know that there are system pressures right across London, right across northeast London, which do sometimes delay ambulances being cleared from hospital but what I want to say and it's been recognized by colleagues already, other NHS colleagues that all the hard work that is being done every day of the week to make sure ambulances are released back into the community really quickly, so that those ambulances can get to our category one responders for example who might be waiting with patients which means they can then go to their next category one call so it's cyclical, there's lots of work being done, we've got a laser focus on it day by day, hour by hour. Fiona Ashworth talked about the SEC which is the coordination centre which has a London and a regional oversight already so all of those things working together really important but I guess in summary, yeah, disappointing that we're over the seven minutes, but nationally we're pretty good and there's loads of system working to make sure that ambulances are in the community as quickly as possible to make sure that everybody can get to those category one patients, so I hope that answers the question. Councillor Chaudry. Thank you chair. Just, I checked in the, in the, it didn't come in the presentation about the pop-up clinic in Parkham Dagenham. If I am not sure that's because it's a very good project and pop-up clinic any residents comes, and they can once go they can check up their nurse, health care assistant and GP as well. But I found one thing is this project, will this service continue? My first question, and second question is does today's, I would like to rather than online, any questions in present I would prefer in future. Thank you. Thank you very much for the question Councillor. I'm sorry the audio went a bit wobbly but I think you were asking about the Barking and Dagenham pop-up clinics run by our primary care colleagues. The funding for some of those was provided from the ICB's Health Inequalities Fund, and I know that colleagues in primary care want to review the learning from all of those pop-ups to understand how best to take it forward. I would suggest they have been very successful ways of both enabling the community to easily access some primary care support, but particularly in getting out and getting to residents who, who might otherwise not be so able to access services for instance the Black and African, Afro-Caribbean specific pop-up that they held, and they've also been able to direct local residents to a wide range of other services, and so that they know where they can go in future for things that other services might be able to provide. Thank you very much Chad. May I make a general observation, if I may, we all know that time is precious, and it's precious for all of us, but I do know that I just wondered if we could make sure that in future, that these meetings are set up well in advance to hear that people have to go away because of their busy lives, you know, within a set period of time which is not within the set time of the committee. I've noticed on some other committees as well that you know, the overwhelming demand on some of our officers had to go away before the end of the committee and it was a bit disappointing from the committee's point of view to hear that they had to go away but as I say, their time is precious just as our time is precious, and the second observation that I make about the lack of officers turning up into the chamber as well. I would sometimes like to see the officers here in, or not always but occasionally here within the chamber, because I think I can interact and feel more collaborative kind of working with them when they're here in the chamber. I say that as I say, time is precious, everybody's time is precious, sometimes it's better for people to be away on zoom, because they have other work to do. But as I say it's an observation that I'd like to see some officers here, and I'd like to see them possibly allocating their time for this committee. Okay, so I don't believe I have any other comments or recommendations. So, that just leaves me to thank everyone who contributed to this meeting, thank you for all of you who did turn up to the chambers. My notes do say the next meeting is on the 14th of January venue to be confirmed so that concludes. Yeah, please do. So can we just thank our chair as well because he stepped in at last minute and he did an amazing job so thank you so much. Well, well, safe journey home if you want. Take care. Thank you very much. [BLANK_AUDIO]
Transcript
and North East London Joint Health and Overview and Scrutiny Committee. For those of you who may not know me, I am Councillor Robbie Mazur, London Borough of B So this is a hybrid meeting. So can I start off please with introducing members who are in the chamber. So please, can you just announce your name and where your position is within this meeting, please? I'm Councillor Nihil Chavarria, Councillor for Bmoor, Barking and Deganham Council. Thank you. We need to get the microphone on from there. So it's like the Dragonite staff car. Just amazing. I'm Councillor Sonny Brough from Redbridge, represent Newbury Ward, member of the Health Committee in Redbridge and chair of the Policy Development Health Committee in Redbridge. My name is Alex Ewings. I'm the Associate Director of Ambulance Operations from the London Ambulance Service here in North East London. Hi everyone, I'm Councillor Dr Kaz Risby from Epping Forest District Council, also the cabinet portfolio holder for Community Health and Wellbeing, also practicing as a GP in West Essex. Hi, I'm Councillor Paul Robinson from London Borough of Barking and Deganham. I also chair the Health Scrutiny Committee in Barking and Deganham as well. Good evening, I'm Councillor Marshall Vance. I'm the Essex County Councillor representing Essex residents today. Good evening everyone, I'm Councillor Beverley Brewer. I am chair of Health Scrutiny for the London Borough of Redbridge. Sorry, would you like to, would you like to introduce yourself? I know we're slightly late in starting so you've come at an appropriate moment. [inaudible] Richard, Swede and I represent the London Borough of Waltham Forest and I apologise for lateness, got stuck on a bus in some quite serious traffic. I know we've had some IT issues so that's fine. So we do have some people on Zoom, as I mentioned this is a hybrid meeting so I don't know if we can see the people on Zoom. Can we have an introduction from the people on Zoom? Good evening, or afternoon Councillors. I'm Zina Etheridge, I'm the Chair, sorry not the Chair, I'm the Chief Executive of the ICB and I also have my colleague Jo Moss with me. Afternoon, I'm the Chief Strategy and Transformation Officer for the ICB. Thank you. Okay, I'll introduce myself. I'm Paul Calaminas, I'm Chief Executive at North East London Foundation Trust. Hello, I'm Fiona Wheeler, Deputy Chief Exec and Chief Operating Officer at BHIUT. I'm Henry Black, I'm the Chief Finance Officer for the ICB. Thank you. Can I, hang on a minute. Sorry. James is basically first meeting, so it's tricky to get around the way the system works, so he's doing amazing. Okay, so I think we've completed all the introductions, so just as some house notices, can we please switch off any mobiles or any other electronic devices, and in the event of the evacuation, alarm sounding, please make your way down the staircase to the meeting point which is at the flagpoles as you came into the chambers or as you came into the council building. So, again, for those of you who don't really know me, I try to keep my meetings very precise, so if presentations and questions we can keep very concise, so that we do have an opportunity to scrutinize properly, so that's how I operate my meetings and there's nothing more to really say about that. So, the next item is apologies for absence, which I've got Councillor Christine Smith, Councillor Julie Wilks, for which I am substituting, Councillor Robbie Mazir, Councillor Brett Jones, I believe Councillor Mohamed Javed is substituting. Are there any other apologies that we are aware of? Okay, that's fine, that should be recorded in the minutes. Disclosure of interests on any agenda item, that's fine. So, the next item is the previous minutes held on the 25th of July, 24 page 5, are we happy to agree those minutes? Yeah, okay, so that's fine, so at some point during the meeting I'll sign those minutes. So, we now move on to the first main item of business, which is agenda item 5, the health update, which is basically the whole of the agenda, page 9 to 74, so can we have this presented please? Good evening, Chair. If it's all right with the committee, both Fiona Wheeler from BHIUT and Archana Mathur, who isn't able to make herself heard on Zoom, so has just joined me, have to leave at 5 o'clock, which was notified in advance. So, if it's all right with you, I would suggest that we take Fiona's update first, which is on BHIUT, followed by specialised services, because as I say, both of those participants have to leave at 5 o'clock. Yeah, that's fine with me, absolutely fine. Okay, so should we start with Fiona if that's all right and BHIUT? Thank you very much. Thank you, Chair. I'd like to present to you all a brief overview of the performance at BHIUT, that's Queen's Hospital, Rumford and King George Hospital. I think it's probably appropriate to start with a performance update around our emergency department, our A&E departments, and in the news you will notice that A&E departments are extremely busy and have been throughout the summer. August and July were one of our busiest months ever, and however I am very pleased to say that we've remained reasonably robust in terms of performance and the four hour target for our A&E departments for all types, that includes urgent care patients, was at 78.9%. That is a really good standard of care for the majority of patients who attend our A&E departments. However, I do know that, despite all of the best efforts from the staff at both of our hospital sites, I think we recognise that still far too many patients wait too long for assessment, diagnosis and treatment, and in particular during the busiest times, we have found it difficult to get patients out of our A&E departments into beds within the four hour target. So, on the one hand, I'd like to, you know, really to reinforce to you that all the efforts of the hospital are going into making sure emergency care is prioritised, and that is borne out in some of the figures, however, also to recognise the vast amount of work that we still have to do. Most of that patient waiting happens in our corridors and it's become a sort of a term used loosely in the NHS now around corridor care, but I think what's most important to explain here is that one of the biggest reasons for corridor care, particularly at Queen's Hospital, is the fact that the department was built for 120 patients a day and regularly sees just over 300. And so, in a physical way, we do need to modernise, we do need to improve and I think at any given time I'd be very happy at some point to come back and explain and show you our plans for improvement and reconfiguration. The bill for the reconfiguration at Queen's is estimated to be around 35 million, and we have been, along with anyone who will help us, lobbying at every level within the NHS for the green light on funds to support some of that reconfiguration work. Most importantly, that will provide much needed capacity for patients who attend who don't need to be admitted to a bed, and what we call same day emergency care can provide much greater volumes of work and patient care and diagnosis without the need for admitted, admitting patients into bed. So, a much needed development, and something that we are really pushing hard to get underway as soon as is possible. And I would like to mention I note our LAS colleagues are in the chamber. And I recently received our recent parliamentary award around the improvement work that was undertaken at King George's to reduce an ambulance hand over times. And we all know that ambulance hand over times are key to ensuring that a the ambulances can collect from their homes and wherever they have fallen ill. And, but secondly, key to hospitals taking over the ongoing assessment and care of patients who are brought to our A&E departments in ambulances so a really good prestigious award for both LAS and for the King George team, and something to celebrate after what was a really hard winter last year and lots and lots of good work going into that. It would be remiss of me to not mention the mental health pathways in terms of delivery of emergency care to patients who who present with medical as well as mental health issues. And during the month of August 331 patients were referred to our A&E departments through a mental health pathway either through LAS or otherwise. And one of our areas of priority for winter and actually for now, has got to be to continue to work collaboratively with our ICB colleagues and with our partner in delivering mental health care, NELFT, and I know Paul is here and will will be more than happy to talk very eloquently about all the work they're doing around improving mental health care. And, but one of the areas we're focusing on as well is to create physical capacity within both our sites at King George and Queens, and some dedicated space for patients with mental health presentations to improve safety, patient experience and appropriate places for patients to wait for whatever element of care they're waiting for whilst under the care of the A&E department. And again, going back to the capital that is real priority for the system and for BHRUT. And we know that winter's coming. It doesn't feel like the numbers have stopped during the summer and so our next focus our current focus is to really try to make sure that we optimise all of the out of hospital pathways with our partners in primary care, community care and other healthcare provider sectors, and to make sure that we optimise the receipt assessment, diagnosis and treatment of all patients that come through an emergency pathway. And linked to that will be making sure patients are provided with safe and well organised discharge from hospital to create the much needed capacity for new admissions on a daily basis. And we're currently undertaking a perfect week with BHRA, social care and community colleagues in order to really co-design some of the ways through some of the problems that we encounter when trying to discharge patients from hospital. So, lots and lots of examples of collaborative work and a really motivated team. We did do last winter together very well and we've got lots and lots to build on, but lots of connections that we already can rely on to support better patient care during the winter months. And I'll just move on briefly to our elective or planned care scenario. We have a very high waiting list still for planned care. And although it is in a downward trend and we have made some real improvements over the last 12 months, about 89% of the people waiting on our waiting list need to come to an outpatient appointment as opposed to our waiting for surgery. And so of the total 66,000 and a half patients on the waiting list, about 1,400 are waiting for some kind of admitted operation. The rest of them are waiting for our patients and so lots of work going on to increase or improve the time it takes to wait for an outpatient appointment and to provide better care quicker to patients referred from primary care. Lots and lots of opportunities for shared care and for improvements in pathways and we're working with that in our interface meeting with our primary care colleagues where we discuss joint issues, joint problems between the two parts of the healthcare system, and hopefully design better ways of working together that are more streamlined for patients and reduce all sorts of opportunities for waste and activities that aren't valuable in patient care terms. I have undertaken on the last few months many opportunities around getting higher volumes of patients through, sorry just a sec, higher volumes of patients through our Saturday clinics, through high volume operating lists and that all end up reducing the number of patients that have waited over a year for either an operation or an outpatient appointment. And that is a well established program at BHIUT which we plan to continue. Moving on to money, I'm sure you're all fully aware of the current financial scenario within the NHS and we are currently working with a deficit of 18.2 million at the end of August, which is about 9 million averse to plan which is a staggering amount of money at this part of the year. The added burden we have going forward is the ongoing cost of winter, of winter care, and the system being overwhelmed with activity leading to, in some cases unplanned expenditure. However, we have a good program of work around financial recovery. We are well connected with our ICB colleagues and other provider trusts, and we are working through a number of programs to maintain financial resilience and maintain our current spending plan, according to our year end forecast. So, lots to do, lots of difficult situations to discuss in the future, but lots of connectivity with our teams and our partners in the ICB. I'd like to finish, if I may, on cancer before just talking about a couple of strategic areas. Our cancer targets are working well. Our 62 day performance was 74.8% which is short of the 85% target but we are seeing, diagnosing more and more patients every month. Our recent opportunity to open two community diagnostic centres, one in Barking and one forthcoming in Horn Church at St. George's Hospital will deliver 75,000 additional scans, and that's a real cause for celebration across the NHS and will be instrumental in helping us diagnose more patients quicker and particularly on cancer pathways. I would like to mention before I go, a couple of opportunities. The aging well unit at St. George's Hospital is due to open in the next three weeks to patients and that will be focusing on providing aging and frailty care for patients who could otherwise be treated outside the hospital environment. And our aim is to reduce the amount of frail and elderly people who attend A&E as the first point of call for health care. And that will be run and co-designed with our GP colleagues and we're hoping to really embed that in the community and make a real difference to our A&E departments. In other news, our Daisy ward, which is our rehabilitation ward post stroke, recently received gold ward accreditation, and we are currently moving that ward back to the King George site to combine it with some of the other work we're doing around King George's around getting patients well and ready to go home after after illness. I think I will pause there, because I'm probably out of time. Thank you. Thank you very much Fiona. I know you have to leave at five so are there any questions from the chamber so I'll take, sorry I can't remember names but I'll just point sorry for being rude. Thank you Fiona for a very comprehensive report and my question was specifically around the waiting list and you mentioned in your verbal report about, you know, there's lots of work going into treating patients quicker, and in the actual documented report there's mention of innovative ways that the Trust has been, you know, utilising to keep us safe, would you mind sharing some of the strategies to help reduce waiting times. Certainly, I'll give you an example a very, very current example. And with the opening of the women's health hubs we recognise that women's health, and particular waiting lists for gynecology are the biggest in London, and the biggest in terms of health inequality across our system. And we've set up a group session, which can see up to 15 women at one time around continents and your gynecology, and those ladies currently wait around a year for a physio appointment, which is completely unnecessary. And through a group session we can get on the front foot with regard to proactive treatment for those ladies and we're working through that at a rapid speed of knots, it will both reduce the 52 week waiters, it provides better care for women, and provides quicker access to appropriate health care. That's just one example I know we're short for time, and at any point in the future if people want to come and hear about all the work we're doing around that very comprehensive answer will be available. Thank you. Thanks so much for that update. I'm concerned about mental health patients waiting, I think it's 22 hours, we're still at that level, and I know we've talked about it a lot before, and you know you've been reporting that a lot of work is going on, but when are we going to really see improvements because obviously that's a dire situation for all concerned. Thank you. Thanks, Beverly. I appreciate that and I have colleagues on this call. Paul is here as the Chief Exec of Nelft and other colleagues from the system, and maybe, if I may, hand the answer to some of that to the system or to Paul for a more in-depth answer as opposed to the A&E version. Thank you. Chair, I think it's up to you whether or not you want us to talk to this question now, or when Paul does his update on Nelft. I just note that the item on specialised commissioning needs to get to... If I could ask a question from the Chamber, then perhaps we can switch over to Paul. Chair, just very briefly, the presentation on specialised commissioning, the presenter also needs to leave at five o'clock. So we have got an update from Nelft on mental health. Okay, let's go to the presentation then. Yeah, thanks. Hi, everybody. My name is Archa. I'm Director of Specialised Services and Cancer for North East London. Really good opportunity to bring you up to speed with the delegation of specialised commissioning. I'm just going to give a very brief update on what is happening. The reason why the delegation is taking place, a little bit about clinical networks and really the whole rationale for it in terms of impacts on our patients, residents and populations. So specialised services are a broad range of services. There are a huge number of services and they range from some which are quite complex, some that are less complex, some for which there are large volumes of activity and some for which there are lower volumes of activity. Largely, they're driven by innovation, research, new clinical practice and the such like. And they're delivered by hospitals for which they have expert training, equipment and so on and so forth. As we know with these innovations, demand for these services is rising. These services are costly and aligned with our population growth. It's a really important function that statutorily is moving from NHS England to the ICBs. It's a large amount of money as well. Nationally, it's about 15 per cent of the budget and for NHS, Nell ICB, it's about 20 per cent. The change is really happening so that the ICBs are able to look at the totality of those clinical pathways for patients. Right from an intervention, early intervention and prevention in primary care right through to the care and treatment of patients within our acute hospitals. At the moment, with the commissioning with NHS, that has been less. There are less opportunities to be able to do that simply because of proximity to those populations. So the benefits really are allowing us to take a holistic view about the quality of care that we're providing, ensuring that we've got really good access and looking at all of the finances in one hit really in totality. So that is specialised pathways and non specialised pathways all in the round. Associated with the delegation of the actual services, there's also joint commissioning of what we call clinical networks. And these are mandated networks of clinicians. The networks are hosted within our clinical within our providers. And they are really a group of clinicians who work across organisations to help provide expert advice to us on how those services have been commissioned. They're also the people that help develop national service specifications that we all must adhere to and also provide help and support in terms of planning, developing metrics for success and so on and so forth. So it's a really good opportunity for us to work together more closely with our clinicians within these networks. There are other slides that go into a bit more detail about some examples of these. And I draw your attention to the main priorities for specialised services that we have in North East London. They are HIV, liver and hep C, cardiology, renal, sickle cell, neurosciences and complex urogyny. These are all pathways for which we have significant pressure within our system and really need to think about how we provide that care, both upstream within primary care and early intervention and also within our hospitals as well. There are some examples of that work. For example, with HIV, a lot of work on implementing opt out testing within our emergency departments in increasing early diagnosis and so on and so forth. The final slide goes into a little bit more detail about HIV as well. But there are but there are many examples which I'm really happy to talk about at another point in time. In terms of what happens next, there's a little bit of due diligence that needs to be undertaken. We've been doing this work for two years and it's been delayed in London to allow there to allow additional checks and balances for us to really make sure that we're ready to receive this function. So we need to undergo some more due diligence and and then take the formal agreements through our ICB governance, while simultaneously working through the actual work that impacts on our patients and our residents through the transformation work. I'll stop there in the interest of time, but happy to take any questions or queries. Thank you. Thank you. Is there any questions about that before she goes? Being in mind, we've got about four minutes. Yeah, go ahead. You spoke about early diagnosis and opt out testing, but in order to work towards that admiral goal, there would have to be quite wide availability of prep for people who are already infected and known to be infected. I wonder what measures you might be able to take towards this very laudable policy aim. I mean, I can't profess to be an expert in all things HIV. Unfortunately, I might have to take some questions and queries away. It's sufficient to say that those targets have been in place and we are absolutely committed to trying to meet them. The work on the opt out testing in our emergency departments has been really, really exceptional. Fiona will attest as well that in BHIT, they've actually been really progressing with this. And there really haven't been that many issues with regards to prep and the such like. I guess the other thing to highlight about the treatment of HIV and the broader work associated with the delegation of specialized commissioning is our ability to link up much better with our local authority partners aligned to the sexual health strategy that's been developed as well. So I think all in all, that that's going to be a much better assurance all in the round as to how we reach those targets and goals that have been nationally set and determined. Thanks. Okay, so you can depart from your virtual interaction and we'll just go forward with the other presentations now, please. Thank you, Chair, and apologies. We're sharing one laptop because we were having some difficulties getting on to the Zoom link. So you've got some slides in your pack which give a general health update, which I'm obviously not going to talk through because you've got the slides in advance. If you bear with me for one moment, I will. Sorry, because we're switching between people. I'm immediately in front of me. And so the slide pack gives some general updates. It talks about where we are in recruiting chairs to our various NHS acute trusts in North East London. It describes the annual assessment of the NHS England to do of all integrated care boards and points to some further readings if anybody is particularly interested in that. It points to various new practices that we've opened across North East London recently, two of which are in outer North East London. They're really, really exciting developments. And if members haven't had an opportunity to see those practices or those centres as they are more generally, then we'd be happy to arrange for that to happen because they really are great developments. We thought the committee might be interested in some work that we've taken to our board recently looking across North East London at the range. And there is a very substantial amount of it of work on long term conditions. And so it gives you some examples of some of those. And again, points to our board papers, which have got some more detail in there. There are so many things in there that I am not an expert on any of them, but it gives you a quick summary across them. Various other things of note going on in the system we're coming to as part of the agenda, including the financial situation, which has already been talked about, our winter plan and various other specific updates. But that's kind of probably all I need to say from a general perspective. We've got an update to give you on some surgery specifications, which we can go straight into, or I can pause for questions. No, happy to go. Well, I've got one more question, then we go to the other presentations. Yeah, thank you very much. No, it's a very, very interesting report, and I did have sight of it before coming. And the thing that was most eye catching for me was the improving access for local people and the three new health facilities that have been set up. The one in Ilford Exchange particularly was something that I noticed firsthand at the site of the old M&S, which has been closed down. So as I was going through the exchange with my little boy, getting some bigger mix, I saw a really brand spanking shiny new building or signage around there. And the questions that I had were, you know, I think it's fantastic to use kind of space, which otherwise wouldn't wouldn't have been, you know, having a leaseholder. But as far as kind of like the decision to set up a health facility within the shopping centre, what form of sort of scoping exercise or what sort of kind of research had been done as to whether that was an appropriate site? And the second question, which is attached to that is lots of research shows that people when they're out shopping, they consider it therapeutic in its own right. And they don't really want to be disturbed and bombarded with health promotion or public health material, which, you know, is something which has been proved over the country. And as for the actual kind of longevity and the legacy of this health centre, do we have an idea as to how long the lease is or what sort of kind of timeframe we'd expect this to still be kind of up and running for? Thank you very much, Councillor. So there's a lot of detailed questions there. I think in terms of this particular centre, the original idea for it grew out of a vaccination centre. And you might recall thinking back to the pandemic, that we worked really hard to put vaccination centres at the heart of the community to build trust, break down barriers, make it as easy as possible. I think everyone has gone behind getting a range of facilities and there's quite a wide range of different services using the Ilford Exchange. And there are across the country a whole range of different health centres, different health facilities that have been put at the heart of the community to make them accessible for residents. For instance, community diagnostic centres in Wood Green, for instance, there's a community diagnostic centre in the equivalent shopping centre to the Ilford Exchange. And so it is a technique that has worked pretty successfully in a range of places. It is not intended to be a kind of flash in the pan presence in the Ilford Exchange. But your precise questions on length of lease and things like that, I'm afraid I don't have the details to handle. OK, thanks very much. Let's go to the next presentation, I guess. Afternoon. And so I was just going to briefly speak to the slides. I won't repeat all of the detail that's contained in the pack. But this was really just to give the committee an update on a technical piece of work that I'm leading at the moment with colleagues across the system to review the specifications that we have for a number of our surveys. And as part of that work, we think it's really important to engage with local residents and patients. And so we have been doing a piece of work to just make sure that we've listened to and understood from local residents and patients what matters to them when they're accessing surgical services. And we are still at the point of finalising those specifications that sit across seven of the different surgical specialties. And I think it's really important for the committee to note that there will be no changes to the location from which services are provided. This is a piece of technical work that we're doing in the background that just assures us as commissioners that the providers that we are contracting with have the appropriate range of services. And I'll focus on delivering the outcomes that we know matter and clinically, but also socially for our patients. I'm very happy to take further questions if anybody has any. Thank you. OK, thanks. I think what I'll do is go through all the presentations and then have questions at the end of the session. So whoever the next presentation is from. I think we're on to... It would be helpful when matters are referred to, if the page numbers in the pack could be referred to. Thank you, Councillor Sweden. I'm sure we can do that. I think the next part in the pack, and I'm sorry, I'm working off a very small screen because we're using my laptop as the one to access, is the winter update. I think it's on page 22 of the slides and it's Fiona Ashworth who's going to present that. Thank you. Thank you, Zeena. So this is really a high level position of where we are in terms of our winter planning. So last year we did a really comprehensive piece of work on winter to ensure that our hospitals and our community were safe and able to take patients in the most appropriate way. And from that, what we did by the end of the year, we were able to describe over 78% of our population, our patients attending, received the care that they needed within four hours, which was a really significant change. And the paper lays us out. We did a huge amount of work with our ambulance colleagues, with community colleagues, with our place colleagues, to ensure that actually the pathways for patients were located correctly, and we did a huge amount of work on communicating. For this year, the winter plan remains a priority for the system and its partners. We have a new set, if you like, of asks from the national team to keep our patients safe and give good quality care. And where we are currently is we have had two events. We had an event in April and then a further one in June. And by our chief people officer, there was a third event actually in September. So really bringing the whole system together to think about how we provide safe and sustainable care over the winter period. So, in addition to the acute space, we are looking at several areas, and I think it's worth drawing those out. And it's really important to keep our population well, and so we are maximizing the winter vaccination campaign and that is very widely noted right across our system. We want to ensure that we keep our patients safe, so we have done a piece of work around patients with complex and long term conditions so that their care is optimized. To patients, for example, with respiratory or cardiac disease. And as Fiona talked about earlier, we're also doing some work around preventing attendance by having patients access to GPs and also 111 and pharmacists. And then at system level, we are also looking at discharge as a priority. So how do we make sure that as a patient is ready for discharge, they are discharged from the acute provider into a community facility or to home. Last year, we talked about a system coordination center and the function of the coordination center is that we've got a real whole system visibility of where there is pressure, but also where there is capacity across our systems. This is both outer and inner Northeast London, and that has really matured over the last year really giving us a sense of actually how we work together in partnership, particularly where there is pressure. And then finally, just around what we call the 10 high impact interventions. These are just measures of actually how mature processes and the system are in making sure that we've got the right things in place for our population and our patients. We are in the second year of the UEC program, and what we've drawn out in summary on page 24, I think, is around how we are planning to keep patients well and safe. And we've summarized that so you can see the priorities for us. So in terms of next steps, we are continuing to develop our winter plan. We have an event with our chief operating officers right across the system for acute and mental health. In the next days, we are looking at our children and young people in terms of their needs. We are of course anticipating and observing any impact of GP collective action, which at this point we have seen little impact at this point, but also recognizing we have pressures in terms of our flow around local authority budgets. And finally, just to say we do ask the JSC to help and support us with all our endeavors for the right care and winter campaign to ensure that our population and our patients are vaccinated this year to keep them well. And also to prevent obviously a tendency into urgent emergency care, so that we can prevent overflow and challenge in relation to some of the areas around patient groups. Thank you, Councillors. Thank you. So can we have the next presentation, please? I believe that will be Finance Councillor from Henry Black. Thank you very much. Hello, everyone. My name is Henry Black. I'm the Chief Finance and Performance Officer for Northeast London ICB. I will talk you through just briefly, we've put one slide, which should be page 27 in your pack, which gives a snapshot of the financial position at month five. Fiona briefly mentioned the BHIUT financial position as being extremely challenged earlier, and that is the case across the whole of Northeast London, but across the NHS and public services as a whole. So we, as at month five, which is the August performance data, we had an 87.2 million deficit, which is about 53 million variance from plan, so adverse variance. This is a position which has been fairly stable throughout the year in the sense that we have had a posted deficit cumulatively every month. At month five, we have seen a slowing down of that variance, which is good news. So the financial position is beginning to stabilise, which is a reflection of all the hard work that is being put in across all organisations as we work towards our financial recovery. We do have early sight of the month six numbers as well. That's the September numbers. They haven't yet been through internal board governance for the organisations, but there does appear to be a continued improvement in the run rate and a slowing down of the deficit. But the position continues to be extremely challenged. So the main drivers of that, we had ongoing industrial action, which was a particular issue last financial year, less of an issue now. And thankfully, most of the industrial action disputes have been progressed, most but not all. And there is a 7.6 million cost to the system for the cost of industrial action. A further million pounds, roughly, on the cyber attack that took place in the south-east of London and that had a knock-on impact on some of our providers, including BART. The main drivers of the pressures, though, continue to be the fact that we started the year with a very, very challenging set of cost improvement programs. We have about almost 300 million of assumed savings to be delivered within our overall system envelope. And so that was about 5.5% of our total turnover. So that has been very challenging and there have been some areas where that has not been possible to deliver in full, partly because of the challenges around industrial action. Other pressures include high occupancy within mental health beds, which has resulted in a higher than expected use of private sector beds, which are very expensive. We have very extreme pressure in the renal dialysis, which is a specialized commissioning or a specialized service. Again, very expensive. And we have had just general pressures on bank staff for where we have additional acuity of patients on the wards and corridor care, which is not good for patients, but also very expensive. The main areas that we are targeting to reduce the run rate pressures are around use of high expensive premium agency. And it's good to see that we have made significant inroads in that we still have a high rate of agency, but it is significantly lower than it was in previous years. And that is the key area that we need to work on to reduce our overall pay bill and work is ongoing between the chief people officers, the chief nursing officers and the chief medical officers to deliver that. So that's the position as at month five, and I'll pause there. Okay, thanks very much. Happy to move on to the next presentation. Thank you, Councillor, and I believe we're next up, we're due to hear from London Ambulance Service who I think are there in the chamber with you. Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Councillors. It's lovely to be here with you this evening. I'm Alex Hughes, I'm the Associate Director of Ambulance Operations for the London Ambulance Service in North East London. And so I'm going to give you a quick run through of the report that we provided it from starts on title page London Ambulance Service performance report in the pan. So there's definitely some positive news to talk about this evening, and we've got some opportunities, but there are also some challenges to recognise as well. We are the busiest UK Ambulance Service. We take over two million 999 calls per year, and we are the only provider that covers pan London, and I'm here today because I'm responsible for ambulance operations in North East London. So that's obviously what I'm going to talk to you about this evening. So our response times for category one, which are our immediately life threatening patients and cat two patients, which is slightly less, but still emergency and urgent, have improved in the month leading to August. And it's really pleasing to note that of late particularly, the North East London category two number is predominantly below the London mean, which is really good because that's definitely an improved position. Our hear and treat number is also consistently good at about 20%, which puts us first or second against other UK Ambulance Services and that's the patients that we can successfully deal with over the phone, give them advice, referrals and essentially close the 999 call without the dispatch for an ambulance, but the patient still gets really good governed high quality care from our expert clinicians. So our cat two performance, certainly for August, remained under the 30 minute agreed target at 29 minutes eight, which was excellent. But I do want to recognise that we do have challenges in certain boroughs in North East London, there is a performance gap of about 15 minutes between the outer North East London boroughs which do better compared to some of the inner boroughs, so sitting Hackney Tower Hamlets, etc. And what we are doing about that is focusing more staff into those areas, and we have a laser focus on a daily and a weekly basis on practical terms such as you know production and management of our people resource. And so I do want to recognise to the committee that September has been a difficult month for us, our category two response time went up to 40 minutes. But that was still below the London figure of a 42 minute mean for the London Ambulance Service across all areas. As it's already been mentioned, we are continuing to work with all our partners across the ICS area to particularly to reduce delays in handing over patient care at hospitals, and has already been mentioned by we mentioned again because it's great news. We were joint meetings with colleagues from King George's Ilford for the NHS parliamentary awards, so just want to mention that again. The percentage of patients that we conveyed to hospital is consistent, there isn't actually a target or a commission target for this, but it's about 50% of the patients that we see face to face we conveyed to hospital. Now, I want to distinguish that from just being one in two of all patients because it's not because we take about 7,999 calls a day, a number of those patients are successfully transferred across to 111, where they have hear and treat we do our own successful treat figures as well. And then all the patients we see face to face it's about 50% which is really consistent so it's quite a good figure and just to recognise as well that the patients that we see are sicker and are more complex as well. But clearly we're using as many pathways and other referral avenues that we can to safely keep patients out of ED wherever that's possible. And just something else really just about our people in our workforce. Just over the last 12 months we introduced a new concept of team based working. So if you think of our compare it to the fire service where everyone I think would know that they work as a watch. So, red watch blue watch etc. We now do something very similarly, internally with the London Ambulance Service and the real benefit of that is that our teams will come on shift together, they'll be on shift with their manager every day. They have dedicated training time built into their own. And there's lots of science behind why that is good for people and then obviously good for patients because we learn together we train together. And ultimately, it's the teams of ambulance crews that are going out to patients together, day in day out. So I think, you know, on reflection as well of that we are an excellent learning organisation internally where we were an early implementer of the patient safety framework, which is relatively new in the NHS we're an early implementer so we're well into that now. But I think one of the reflections and as has been mentioned, it's about what we can do better with external partners to learn across the system, not just internally but looking externally as well. Finally, just a plug, if I may, the BAFTA award winning series BBC Ambulance starts again tonight on BBC One at nine o'clock. And I'm really proud to say it features the London Ambulance Service related series so please do give that watch, it features staff and patients from North East London. Thanks very much. We've got next. Thank you chair, it will be Paul Calaminas giving the NELFT updates. Thank you. Thank you very much. So, this is in the pack from page 41. And really, we've, we've put this in reflecting all the work in both mental health and community health collaboratives. If maybe I start with mental health. Obviously I won't go through everything that's in the pack but maybe if I begin with some of the pressures in the mental health crisis services and mental health crisis pathway. So Fiona already made mention of some of the experiences of some of our patients in emergency departments. And Henry too made mention of the fact that we are needing to use additional beds on a daily basis to be able to provide care for all of the outer North East London residents who need admission to hospital. Today we have 51 people in additional beds to give you a scale of the numbers that we are talking about. And we are not in a position where we have a lot of people blocking our beds. So sometimes you hear the kind of, you know, you know, sometimes what's going on is that people, it's difficult to admit people because there are lots of people waiting for discharge. Certainly, we're not in that, generally speaking, we are not in that position. What we are seeing is a lot of people presenting into mental health services unfortunately in crisis for the very first time. So on our latest audit of that, 70% of the people presenting to emergency departments in crisis were new to mental health services. And very sadly, usually presenting in huge amounts of social crisis relating to family, income, housing and employment and feeling really frankly at the end of their tether. In outer North East London, that is over the last few months also, sorry, excuse me, affecting more women than men. And so we have seen a real increase in that level of distress amongst women in the population. We do have plans in place to try and address this. One of the key elements of the plan actually is alongside the physical space that Fiona mentioned is to create a mental health, essentially a mental health emergency department space on the Goodmains Hospital site. Because that would, that really would help us bring people into a different sort of environment, do more detailed assessment work away from the emergency department space. And put in place plans, you know, really help us try and put in place plans to work with those people. Clearly in the more medium term, or as quickly as we can, but I think in the more medium term realistically, we need to be really trying to engage and work with people before they reach the point of crisis. Because there are clear issues with that number, that percentage of people arriving in mental health crisis not being in touch with mental health services in any way, shape or form. For folks who are in touch with us, you know, the use of that type of crisis is much, much, much less frequent. We do also have a new crisis line offer, so dialling NHS 111 and then asking for option two will bring everyone through to a mental health crisis line that is staffed 24 hours a day with mental health professionals and can also link people to their local crisis response teams or community health, community mental health teams. And we have also in the last few months opened additional mail bed capacity on the Goodmay site, along with some additional section, what is called section 136 capacity, which has certainly helped, particularly I think the experience at King George's A&E, with making sure that we're able to offer space on the Goodmay site for people being brought in by the police. And that's in conjunction with a new advice line we've opened for police colleagues to really try and enable them to get advice from a mental health professional at the point of deciding whether or not they're going to use that section of the mental health act. If you don't mind, I would just like to also pick out from the mental health side of this presentation, the work that's been done around assertive community treatment and re-looking at some of the approaches to that. That's a national piece of work. It follows on from the very, very tragic incident involving students and a caretaker in Nottingham and a service user called Valdo Callicane. And across the country, we have been doing a piece of work on, you know, the group of people within the community for whom we need to engage more assertively. That so far has led to some, you know, some analysis of our caseloads, some gap analysis of that. And we are now working up with our service users, with our patients, the response to that for local services. I did, if you don't mind sharing the mental health side, finally just want to just draw the committee's attention to the fact that within the collaborative, we actually have some priorities that are set by our patients. And I did just want to draw the committee's attention to that because they were really explicit attempts to make sure that we are focusing on things that really matter to people. And we are really trying to keep that out of the centre of the work we do. In terms of performance, I think the couple I would probably have picked out are also to note that particularly for out of North East London, the proportion of the population we're able to offer talking therapies to has really very significantly increased and we are really reliably able to offer a very prompt response to referrals there. People do in thousands, thousands of people self-refer into that service and it's available on phone, online and face to face. And then to note too that physical health checks, which is a hugely important part of the work of mental health services, given that the most severely mentally ill people in society tend to die 10 years younger than their peers at least, has really very, very significantly improved in out of North East London, such that we're now amongst the highest performing areas in the country. On the community health side, again, I won't repeat everything that's in the pack. I won't repeat everything that Xena alluded to in terms of long term conditions, because obviously there is a lot of work there. And I know it's been touched on already, but I really would just want to make sure that I mentioned the Ilford exchange, which has obviously been opened. St George's, which is due imminently to come online and also the opening of Bean Park the other day, the new health centre in Bean Park, which I think will be an important community resource. So that was really just to pick some highlights, Chair, from the report. Thank you, Chair. Our last update is on maternity, which would be given by Diane Jones, and I will swap places with her so that you can see her now. Hi there. Good evening, everybody. My name's Diane Jones and I'm the Chief Nursing Officer for the ICB. I'm just presenting the engagement that we did around our maternity services, looking at the case for change. So, what we saw was that we wanted to understand what were the changing needs of our population and the residents of North East London. And we knew that we could see that there was going to be an increase and we looked at that against our current maternity services. More importantly, we wanted to engage with the public to understand what was their experience of maternity services and what would they like to see in the future, whether it's for themselves or for others. So we did a piece of work around reaching out through to lots of our communities. We did focus groups and we also did online survey as well. Some of the key things we were asking was, is there a need to do something different based on your experiences? We had lots of respondents that came through and I think about 64 percent were people that have had a baby in North East London or family members of that individual. And then we had lots of feedback from staff as well. That piece of work helped us to shape, give us the answers we needed in terms of the case for change. So it helped to tell us that people knew that we needed to do something different. They wanted us to do something different and they understood why we might need to do something different based on the fact that we can see that our population is growing and that there's more demand on our maternity and neonatal services as well. So from that, we've taken information, we've looked at the numbers in terms of the current demand on services, the current types of ways that women and pregnant people are giving birth. And that's helping us to start to shape what could be the opportunities for how we deliver maternity services in the future. Some of the key things that we heard people say was that they wanted greater continuity in the antenatal period and the postnatal period. Quite often the birthing experience tends to be good, if not better, because they get one to one care whilst they're having the baby. What women find is that when they get to the postnatal period that they feel lost, they feel as though there's not enough support, particularly when it comes to breastfeeding. So some of the feedback that we've had is around breastfeeding support. It's been the handover, the transition with health visitors and also where you may have a child with extra needs, additional needs that may go into a neonatal unit. What's the support that they can be given? At this stage, what we're doing is sharing the case for change. We're sharing the engagement that we've done. And we're wanting to go forward with looking at what the opportunities are to change and reconfigure how we deliver maternity services so that we have the right care in the right place for our pregnant population. And that takes you to the end of our presentations. All right. Thanks, all of you who did give a presentation. Very informative. So I'm just going to open up to the committee in the chambers now who have any questions. Go ahead. Sorry. Thanks very much, Erin. And thank you to all of the presenters for really, really detailed reports and great verbal reports. So I'll just punch up my questions one by one. So the first one that I had was for Henry from a finance point of view. And Henry, you touched on your report that one of the key drivers behind the budget deficit was, or the overspending rather, was industrial action. And I believe the report relates to month five, which correlates to August. Industrial action as far as the junior doctor strikes was concerned. I think the last of them was on the second of July. So I wonder what sort of factors from the industrial action would have kind of led on to month five, which was August. And if you wouldn't mind giving us a bit more info about that. And then the second question was to Alex and great to see you here in the chamber. You touched on Alex about the performance gap for category two ambulances in inner London. So a city in Hackney and Tower Hamlets. And I do wonder if some of the 15 minute kind of delays that we see in those areas, whether they're sort of possibly related to the kind of 20 miles per hour speed restrictions that they've got on that side compared to where we are in Havering at the moment. So I would just be interested to know what some of the determinants behind the kind of increase in response times for CAT 2s are. And those are just my two questions. Thank you very much. And I'll be very quick because Councilor is right to note that there was no industrial action August the, the numbers that I provided with the year to date position for month one to five so the for the full year, up to August so the 7.6 million was, it was incurred earlier in the year but it's it's included in the total figures for the period, year to date so so that the deficit is not presented as the deficit in August, it's the year to date for the whole of the up to between first of April and 31st of August. Thank you, Councilor for your question. So I'm a paramedic by professional background and having worked around city in Hackney, Homerson, Camden, Islington, so I do know that it can be really challenging for our staff to get around those boroughs. And whilst I couldn't directly attribute it to 20 mile an hour zones or LTNs etc. It definitely is a challenge space to get around so yes I would say that just from a practical perspective. And that does certainly add to some of the difficulties that our teams face when getting around London, and in other areas as well. I know that we have a rotating chair but I mean I could suggest, if possible, in future, whether we would be able to go through the themes and ask questions as we go along, rather than having all of the information in one go. Because obviously then you're able to ask personal questions at the point onto that topic. So, and also I don't want to bombard everybody with all of my questions in one go. So I prepared my questions in advance in relation to the page references and how we will proceed. And so now I've got them all lined up which obviously doesn't feel very good. So, I mean, I can read them all out if you like, but probably they'll be forgotten about it, we get to the end. So I had, I did have questions about NHS England annual assessment of the Northeast London ICB starting on page 11 of the report, and I was disappointed to see that the ICB has failed to spend funds from the system development program, which is aimed at supporting GP practices and primary care networks. That was a big concern for me because I think our GPS need as much support as they possibly can get in these difficult times, and to think that there was money allocated that wasn't spent. So I'd like to know why. And I want to have some assurance please that the ICB will do more to support general practice and PCNs this year. And in relation to that, I also saw under again that same item there's been a 39% increase in 12 hour breaches and ED departments. I'd like assurance about that please, and what we can do to eliminate these very long waits. So I thought I'd ask these questions under that, and then move on to winter planning. Thank you. Chair, would you like me to come in and respond, pick up those two at this point? Yeah, please do. Thank you. So on SDF and primary care spending, Councillor Brewer, project funding and funding like SDF is a little bit like capital funding. It's not always within our gift to spend it within the year because sometimes projects start a little late, although I recognise your frustration. It is a little while since I read the full assessment of the ICB, so I'm really happy to take that question away and provide you with some more details in writing. On 12 hour waits in our emergency departments, you heard from Fiona earlier on about the challenges at the HIUT and you heard from Paul about the very high volume of demand for the mental health crisis pathway at the moment. We are seeing all the way across the system in North East London, but also in London as a whole that we are seeing this very challenging set of demands. Now, as is absolutely implicit in your question, that is really, really not what we want for our patients. Once we get to delays of that sort of length, there is significantly more risk of harm to those patients and some of those people are waiting for a health assessment. That is quite a small number overall and others are waiting for, you know, kind of other sort of physical health assessments. So all the way across the system, we are doing a lot of work on understanding the reasons for those and what else we need to do. We've got a system wide piece of work on flow through our hospitals and flow through our mental health trusts because the best way that we can deal with a lot of those delays is not what happens in ED per se, but getting the flow through hospitals working most effectively and coupled with ensuring that we're doing everything we can to prevent people from needing to go to our emergency departments in the first place. Some of the measures that Fiona talked about earlier on in relation to the winter plan are absolutely to tackle some of those long waits. I had some questions on winter planning as well. One was on the ambulance response times, I know we've discussed that a little, but I see there's a 30 minute target. Obviously, we would want to have 18 minutes for Class Review 2 response times, which are the national targets, so be grateful for some more clarity about when we can have more alignment with that. We have talked about, well, I did ask the question, but I haven't had an answer yet about emergency department waits for mental health patients, which currently stand at 22 hour averages and BHRUT. So I would like that to be picked up here now because that's obviously very concerning indeed. And also, I was concerned, my third question on winter planning, on page 25, there's a reference to commissioning beds from the independent sector to provide alternatives to mental health or hospital bedded provision. So could I ask for clarification about that, please? And I thought it was policy to reduce the use of independent sector beds for mental health. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor, I'm going to suggest that Fiona Ashworth picks up your question specifically about the winter plan, but Paul Calaminas comes in on the mental health questions, if that's all right. Thank you, Gina. I'll respond to the category 2 and ambulance offloads piece if that's okay to start with. So across North East London, we've made really significant improvements in our ambulance offloads in order to release those ambulances back to the community over the last year. So currently, in 45 minutes, we are delivering at about 60% of our patients being offloaded in that time. And whilst that isn't ideal, that has been quite a step change. And also, of course, Alex talked earlier about our performance about category 2 response, so that's actually ambulance being able to respond to patients still waiting in the community. So we have made some real inroads. What we are currently doing is working as part of winter planning and beyond to look at actually how we can continue to build on that. So, in relation to actually working as a system of actually where we may sign other patients to alternative pathways, but also working on expanding what actions we can take collectively to improve our position. In terms of next steps with that, we have Matthew Trainor, who is one of our chief executives, needs on a piece of work, looking at a more strategic solution, again, to enable a sustainable response to our ambulance, our ambulance provision, our offloads. And we work very closely with Alex, who's obviously in chambers at this time. And I'm happy to pause at that point. And perhaps if I could just say a couple of words on the mental health side. So you're quite right, Councillor, it is policy. Absolutely what we would all want to do is to not use additional private sector beds and make sure that people from out of office and in boroughs are treated in local beds. As I say, we are unfortunately using more private sector beds at the moment than we were a year ago. And that is being driven by demand in mental health crisis. We do, as I say, we do have some plans that we are enacting to try and help us address that. So, for example, we are right in the middle of opening an additional crisis house in the borough of Redbridge. That will give us some additional capacity to respond for people who are in crisis. And as I say, we are establishing a mental health crisis centre at Goodmays, which will give us an additional element of capacity too. But I suppose my hesitation is that if we continue to see people coming new into service in crisis for mental health, some of the factors behind using those additional beds and some of the factors behind waiting times in the department are going to be hard to, in the short term, to eradicate completely because it is that level of crisis presentation that is driving both the use of beds and some of the waiting time issues. The other thing I think I'd say about waiting times is that they do also often relate to the complexity of people as they come into the department. As I perhaps rather inarticulately tried to describe, there are a range of factors for people, both social factors and physical factors, as well as mental health factors, that we do have to work through or for and assess and work with each individual patient for. They can quite often, in all honesty, also be compounded by substance use. And so we do quite often find that by the time we have done a thorough piece of work to really assess and try and understand and work out what the right destination for somebody is, it can take some considerable amount of time. And of course, we don't want to do inadequate assessment work and we don't want to rush that because we can end up with people in mental health beds or under the Mental Health Act, when actually we could put some other plan and approach in place. So we really are working hard to try and reduce that amount of time. But as I say, some of those factors are really quite complex and some of this does rely actually on enough bed capacity and how we can create that. As I say, we do have plans in place. We are opening some of those additional crisis beds, but many of these people are new to service. Had two of the questions, one on mental health and one on maternity. That's OK. I just wondered, with the mental health, I welcome the work that the collaboration has done on this, but I can't see anything that's being delivered for learning disability and autism. When will this happen, please? Yes, I thank you very much for picking me up and that I should have talked about the work in learning disabilities. So I've obviously made reference in the report to a number of areas. This year, we have implemented our intensive support team for learning disabilities. So that is now up and running. We have also introduced a number of we've now got a couple of sensory rooms on the wards at Goodmay specifically for people with autism and learning disabilities. And we are just creating the capacity to create another one. And we also are in the position where we have now employed a set of key workers specifically to work in the community and into inpatient services with people with both autism and learning disabilities as part of the work to try and improve improve their quality of life and the quality of the service that the NHS offered them. And finally, we have also under this heading, and particularly thinking about physical health of people with a learning disability, being able to expand the offer into some of the residential and other accommodation for people with a learning disability in particular, that focuses on their physical health, helping them understand their physical health. And really with a view to try to make sure that all the health checks are completed and that people are getting timely access to physical health care. Thank you for that. That is, that is welcome. And I just wanted to ask with the maternity and neonatal presentation, when we'll have a timetable for the next step with the process. I'd like to ask for assurance that there'll be genuine consultation on any proposed changes, and that we will not have recommendations presented as a fait accompli. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor Brewer. As we've done with the case for change, we did actually go out to engage with our communities and clinical colleagues as well. So we, our intention is to absolutely do the same, if there are any changes that have been proposed that it will be based on engagement work and the feedback that we get from our public. Thank you so much. That is very welcome. I just wanted to say one thing to Henry, if I might. What is a run rate pressure? I don't know what that is under finance. Is it an overspend? I'd just be grateful because I don't know what it is. Thanks so much. And that's me finished. Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Councillor Brewer. Thank you very much for calling us up on using unhelpful non-plain English jargon. Yeah, it just means pressure on the ongoing costs of running the services effectively that are above plan. So it usually correlates with a high demand, peaks and troughs in demand. So yes, it just means an excess cost where there is excess demand and pressure on services. OK, thank you. I've got one more question from the chambers. Two more, actually. First of all, my apologies for late night. And I echo your comments. The presentations have been very informative. And I now come to Ilford Exchange. It's been mentioned twice this evening. I welcome it too. There's a positive feedback. I live in Ilford. I don't access any services there yet, but it's always welcome. But if there is a data available, please, that could be shared. This must have alleviated some of the pressure on local GP, certainly in my area. Do we have any data to how much? And in terms of the lease, I don't know how long that is. It's a good service. We want to continue it, especially if the data is positive. Thank you. Thank you very much, Councillor. I'm afraid I don't have the information available with me on the lease length. It's a bit too early for us to say what the impact on other services locally is, but we are very excited about the model. Very happy to share more information about Ilford Exchange when we have it. And indeed, if this committee would like to hear a bit more about the thinking behind the exchange, the model and early results, then we are really happy to come back and do that as an appropriate point. And what about the lease? Yeah. Would that be sent to us? Thank you. Thank you very much, Councillor Marshall-Vence from Essex. I wonder if I could just go back over a couple of points that have been touched on, but just to allude a little bit more, page 24. I think we've already talked a little bit, and Councillor Brewer has talked a little bit about the looking forward to the winter of 24, 25, and you have got three ambitions that you've put in the pack. And while we are talking about reducing the 12-hour wait for emergency departments, another ambition is, of course, to do the 78% of patients being admitted, transferred, and discharged within four hours. It's good stuff, but can you tell us how? It's all right to say this is what our achievements or what our ambitions are. Could you tell us how you're intending to do that? While you're thinking about that, could I just also come to Henry? Henry, thank you very much for the financial overview as well. My initial reaction to a deficit of the amount that you're talking about, it kind of spurs some thoughts in me about how well we are going to be able to perform and provide for our patients, given that you don't have the money. So I just wondered if you could explain on item two that you said there about efficiency and cost improvement plans, providers reported efficiency slippages of 14.9 million, and Bart's and Homerton are expecting to continue with slippages of 27.7 million. Can you explain why those cost efficiencies have not been met, or just give us a little bit more information as to why they're that? Because when I read that, as I said, when I read that Bart's are still continuing to, by the end of the year, still to be in the deficiency of 27 million, it makes me wonder whether or not that's really going to have an impact on patients and your ability to be able to fund things for patients. Thank you very much. Let's just pick up the winter planning questions first Fiona. Thank you, thank you for the questions, really helpful. So overall, as Fiona Wheeler, who was on the meeting earlier, from a BHRUT perspective, and in partnership with PLACE and community and other providers, have a well established programme of work, which then links into the kind of Northeast London system overview piece. Right, so I'll just break that down a little bit, so describing the how. So the first piece is really around the preventative piece, linking into prevention of conveyance to hospital by having the right facilities available to patients in the community. But also, in addition, some of the work that's happening within the emergency department, around staff, their processes, and how they actually work incredibly hard to move patients from coming through ED, and actually moving into what we call SDEC or same day emergency care processes. What does that mean for a patient? What that means for a patient is, instead of sitting waiting in emergency department for hours for assessment, etc, they are often either referred either by the London Ambulance Service or indeed with the BHR space, the East of England Ambulance Service, or GPs into an assessment unit, which is set up with diagnostics, pathways and access to specialists. So really getting patients to the right place first time. The second area that again Fiona talked about earlier was around pathways into services such as clinics, etc, which they have done a huge amount of work on. The third area is the front end of the hospital, which is obviously where patients usually enter, is impacted if you're not flowing the back end of the hospital. So that real focus upon how teams work together, including social care, local authority, etc, to discharge patients on time. Fiona did talk about the pressures in the BHR around corridor care, etc, but a real focus from the BHR UT team with partners in targeting those areas of flow. So getting that efficiency and focusing on patient needs. So really detailed hospital and organisational flow programmes supported by Place. With all those things we talked about the LAS perspective and I think the St George's facility that we talked about earlier is a real focus on frail patients. So in the outer North East London area, there's a higher proportion of older patients. So that's St George's facility and also the use of our Urgent Response Service and virtual wards. So again that focus on patients in the right place at the right time. So those are some of the details of the work. I think just again to bring to life what impact that's had. We know that Type 3 patients, so patients who have minor injuries or minor illnesses, between 98 to 99% of those patients have consistently been seen within four hours over the last year to 18 months. And patients are told, as we call Type 1 or more or sicker patients, that has improved to in the region about 58 to 59% within four hours. And in August, as Fiona articulated, 78.9% of patients coming into the BHR UT hospitals have been seen in four hours, which is actually one of the best performing organisations coming from a very difficult place two years ago. So we are doing the same things across inner North East London with Bart's Health and also our Homerton colleagues. And again in Homerton, they are delivering the plan that they had delivered a trajectory for. All this is not in isolation and that real importance of system support but also partnership support should remain consistent and linked across the pillars, the priority pillars which are called out. I hope that's helpful detail. Thank you. That's excellent. Just wait for Henry. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. And thank you, Councillor Vance, for the question, which is a very good question and a very fair question. And I guess it illustrates the pressure and the balance that the service is having to make and the difficult decisions that are having to be made every day. And that balance between finance and performance, if you like, in terms of being able to deliver the high quality services that we continue to do. We obviously have a, we have a statutory duty to break even and to not to overspend the allocation we're given. But the fact is that where we have significant clinical and patient safety challenges it patient safety will always come first and will always mean that there are times when, when it is difficult to live within the budget that we set. So, if I just take the kind of overall broader economic context, the NHS has received about approximately a 1% above inflation increase which means that austerity has hit public services across the board but the NHS has largely been protected that's been the narrative from the government. The fact is though that a 1% above inflation increase in funding, compares to what has historically been much closer to three or 4% above inflation allocation of funding so, so the NHS is obviously continuously meets additional demand on a day to day basis and, and it becomes more and more challenging particularly given the, the coming out of the pandemic and the additional prevalence and challenges that that that entails. And so, so that balance is one that we are continually having to strike. And I mentioned that there was a circuit 300 million pound of savings that needed to be made every year just to keep us at that break even level which is about five and a half percent. And as Council event says, there are, you know, we are not able to in all places, deliver some of those. So an example examples of those savings will be that some of those will be in relation to workforce which is about 70% of our budget. A good example example of that will be trying to convert expensive agency costs to permanent staff because there's an agency carries a premium so the more agency you use and the less permanent stuff you use the more expensive that becomes. So trying to, as, as far as possible to recruit more permanent staff and reduce that agency premium. Obviously, that's not always easy and we have a shortage of workforce. We are trying to reduce bank and agency overall so not just converting bank and or converting agency to permanent but actually reducing agency and then not having, having a lower cost, and fewer people in the hospitals. That is difficult to manage with but we have seen continuous growth in our workforce when other systems in London have been able to manage with with keeping their workforce at the same level or even reducing it so we are trying to learn from. From the examples of others to be able to do that but as I say the continuous pressures of managing fluctuating and increasing demand is is challenging for that. I guess I what I would say though, is that all of those savings plans, come with quality impact assessments and equality impact assessments and, and as council advances, raising that concern about, will we be able to continue to provide services as it stands, that is not something that we would, we would say is in doubt and we and we continue to provide the same level of services those efficiencies are providing the same services that are lower cost not not reducing the scope of services that are available. Thank you very much, Henry it's good to hear that your statement that the balance that patients will not suffer at the expense of a balance sheet that's, and I wish you well with trying to get a balanced budget. I don't think it's going to happen but good luck with that. My final question if I may chairman was about. Firstly, I wanted to obviously congratulate pick up the congratulations of the in the cancer area of being able to get the reporting for diagnostics down from 11,000 to zero but that was the backlog. Could I just ask a question of, does that mean now that patients who are waiting for reports about cancer treatment and diagnostics will now actually get their letters and responses in a much more timely fashion. I have experienced a family member person, so I'll declare an interest I've experienced a family member who sat and waited for over eight weeks to get a letter after a cancer diagnosis, and of course it's a very stressful time. Yes, excellent in getting your 11,000 down to zero, but will it continue and could we have some confirmation that that means going forward, patients waiting for results on their diagnostics will be in a much more timely fashion. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor Vance, and my sympathies to your family member, it absolutely is a very stressful and difficult time for people and speed, as you say, is very important to people in reducing that uncertainty. I'm afraid that I think Fiona who would have been able to answer that question and had to leave at five o'clock. So can I ask if we can take that question away and reply to you in writing, please. Yep, that's fine. Thank you. Okay, so I don't have any further indications from the chamber so at this point, can I thank all the speakers, members, do you wish to make any recommendations or take any further actions. Sorry. Sorry, just a quick question I mean thank you for everyone on the online for the presentation so it's got a very quick question for Alex and the London Ambulance and it was around. I was just looking at the report and I can't see the national target for category one, I can see that we're just under eight minutes. What is that national target and how, when would we meet the target by and how dependent is it on how many times because I can see a lot of the hospitals, for example, Queens and Whips Cross have 31 minutes, 28 minutes and other times which are quite large, are they on that. Thank you. Thank you, a really good question. So the national target is seven minutes for category one. We're just over seven minutes but actually nationally, we're doing really well. So whilst it is recognizing that it's over the seven minutes, we're doing pretty well nationally. I guess the assurance of, it's not acceptable to be over, but I suppose the assurance is that we don't have regular patient harm incidents because of that and I mentioned earlier on that we're well embedded with the patient safety framework in London so you know if there was any patient that we thought had come to harm because of a delayed response, that's investigating really robust and so I hope that answers the first part of your question. And the second part is, does that or how does that relate to any hospital delays. So, a first responder in a car, they can be prolonged on scene with a patient waiting for the ambulance to come to them to assist. We do know that there are system pressures right across London, right across northeast London, which do sometimes delay ambulances being cleared from hospital but what I want to say and it's been recognized by colleagues already, other NHS colleagues that all the hard work that is being done every day of the week to make sure ambulances are released back into the community really quickly, so that those ambulances can get to our category one responders for example who might be waiting with patients which means they can then go to their next category one call so it's cyclical, there's lots of work being done, we've got a laser focus on it day by day, hour by hour. Fiona Ashworth talked about the SEC which is the coordination centre which has a London and a regional oversight already so all of those things working together really important but I guess in summary, yeah, disappointing that we're over the seven minutes, but nationally we're pretty good and there's loads of system working to make sure that ambulances are in the community as quickly as possible to make sure that everybody can get to those category one patients, so I hope that answers the question. Councillor Chaudry. Thank you chair. Just, I checked in the, in the, it didn't come in the presentation about the pop-up clinic in Parkham Dagenham. If I am not sure that's because it's a very good project and pop-up clinic any residents comes, and they can once go they can check up their nurse, health care assistant and GP as well. But I found one thing is this project, will this service continue? My first question, and second question is does today's, I would like to rather than online, any questions in present I would prefer in future. Thank you. Thank you very much for the question Councillor. I'm sorry the audio went a bit wobbly but I think you were asking about the Barking and Dagenham pop-up clinics run by our primary care colleagues. The funding for some of those was provided from the ICB's Health Inequalities Fund, and I know that colleagues in primary care want to review the learning from all of those pop-ups to understand how best to take it forward. I would suggest they have been very successful ways of both enabling the community to easily access some primary care support, but particularly in getting out and getting to residents who, who might otherwise not be so able to access services for instance the Black and African, Afro-Caribbean specific pop-up that they held, and they've also been able to direct local residents to a wide range of other services, and so that they know where they can go in future for things that other services might be able to provide. Thank you very much Chad. May I make a general observation, if I may, we all know that time is precious, and it's precious for all of us, but I do know that I just wondered if we could make sure that in future, that these meetings are set up well in advance to hear that people have to go away because of their busy lives, you know, within a set period of time which is not within the set time of the committee. I've noticed on some other committees as well that you know, the overwhelming demand on some of our officers had to go away before the end of the committee and it was a bit disappointing from the committee's point of view to hear that they had to go away but as I say, their time is precious just as our time is precious, and the second observation that I make about the lack of officers turning up into the chamber as well. I would sometimes like to see the officers here in, or not always but occasionally here within the chamber, because I think I can interact and feel more collaborative kind of working with them when they're here in the chamber. I say that as I say, time is precious, everybody's time is precious, sometimes it's better for people to be away on zoom, because they have other work to do. But as I say it's an observation that I'd like to see some officers here, and I'd like to see them possibly allocating their time for this committee. Okay, so I don't believe I have any other comments or recommendations. So, that just leaves me to thank everyone who contributed to this meeting, thank you for all of you who did turn up to the chambers. My notes do say the next meeting is on the 14th of January venue to be confirmed so that concludes. Yeah, please do. So can we just thank our chair as well because he stepped in at last minute and he did an amazing job so thank you so much. Well, well, safe journey home if you want. Take care. Thank you very much. [BLANK_AUDIO]
Summary
The Joint Health Overview and Scrutiny Committee heard reports on the performance of local hospitals and ambulance services, plans for the coming winter, a major overspend across the local NHS, and a proposed reconfiguration of maternity services.
Maternity Services
The committee heard a report on the Best Start in Life programme, which is looking at the future of maternity and neonatal care in North East London. The Case for Change report, published earlier this year, highlighted the need for changes to services in the face of a growing population, increasing numbers of complicated pregnancies, and widening health inequalities.
The programme board, chaired by Diane Jones, the Chief Nursing Officer for the North East London Integrated Care Board (ICB), will be developing potential new models of care in the coming months, which will be based on engagement with local communities. These models will take into account national guidance from reports such as Better Births and the Ockenden Report, which have highlighted the need for improvements in maternity care.
Councillors raised concerns about the lack of detail in the report about future plans. Councillor Beverley Brewer requested assurances that there would be genuine consultation with local people on any proposed changes and that recommendations would not be presented as a fait accompli.
Winter Planning 2024/25
Fiona Ashworth, from the North East London ICB, reported on the NEL Winter Planning 2024/25 process.
She highlighted the three key ambitions of the Urgent and Emergency Care (UEC) Recovery Plan for 2024/25:
- 78% of patients being admitted, transferred, or discharged within 4 hours of attending A&E by March 2025;
- Improved ambulance response times for Category 2 incidents, to an average of 30 minutes;
- Reduced 12 hour waits from time of arrival in EDs.
She explained that the plan for this coming winter was based on four themes:
- Prevention/keeping people well: Proactive vaccination campaigns and communication strategies to signpost residents to the right services.
- Supporting people with an urgent need: Navigation schemes to support patients into the most appropriate urgent care setting, including the commissioning of beds from the independent sector to provide alternatives to Mental Health or hospital bedded provision.
- Addressing emergency needs: Schemes to support homeless patients, drug and alcohol and substance misuse pathways, and increasing the appropriateness of patients in ED by adopting a trusted assessor approach and direct access to Same Day Emergency Care (SDEC) for ambulance crews.
- Supporting discharges: Additional capacity in discharge operations and clinical input, and rehabilitation and reablement schemes to support older patients to return home.
Councillor Brewer raised concerns about plans to commission beds from the independent sector to provide alternatives to mental health or hospital bedded provision. She said she thought it was policy to reduce the use of independent sector beds for mental health. Paul Calaminas, Chief Executive of North East London NHS Foundation Trust (NELFT), explained that they were being forced to use more private sector beds because of the increasing demand for mental health beds, but said they had plans in place to address this, including the opening of an additional crisis house in Redbridge and a mental health crisis centre at Goodmays Hospital.
Councillor Marshall Vance questioned how the ICB intended to meet their ambitions, given the financial pressures they were facing. Ms Ashworth responded that they were focusing on a number of areas:
- Improving hospital flow by focusing on Same Day Emergency Care, frailty, and long waits in ED.
- Improving ambulance flow by optimising ambulance crew pathways, improving Category 2 performance and handovers, and developing a system point of access (SPoA).
- Promoting vaccinations and ensuring a holistic approach to care.
- Standardising integrated discharge hubs, including making funding available for equipment.
NHS North East London: Update
Zina Etheridge, Chief Executive of the North East London ICB, provided an update on the performance of the NHS in North East London. She highlighted the following key points:
- The ICB was recently assessed by NHS England, which recognised the progress it was making, but also highlighted areas where they had more work to do.
- Several new facilities have recently opened, improving access to services for local people. These include the Beam Park Health Centre in Rainham, the Lower Clapton Health Centre at The Portico, and the Ilford Exchange Health Centre.
- The ICB is working to improve outcomes for people with long term conditions, including cardiovascular disease, stroke, diabetes, and respiratory disease.
- They are reviewing the specifications used to accredit providers of surgical services, as part of a contract renewal process. However, they are not currently planning any changes to services.
Councillor Brewer expressed her disappointment that the ICB had failed to spend funds from the system development programme, which is aimed at supporting GP practices and primary care networks. She asked for assurances that the ICB would do more to support general practice this year. Ms Etheridge acknowledged her frustration and explained that project funding is not always spent within the year because sometimes projects start late.
Finance Overview
Henry Black, Chief Finance Officer for the North East London ICB, reported that the NHS in North East London was facing a year-to-date deficit of £87.2m, a variance to plan of £53.2m.
He explained that the key drivers for overspends at a provider level were as follows:
- Run rate pressures: Increased demand for services, including the need for additional independent sector beds for mental health patients, and increased acuity of patients on wards.
- Efficiency and cost improvement plans: Providers reported efficiency slippage of £14.9m at month 5.
- Industrial action: Cost the system £7.6m.
- Cyber-attack: Cost the system £0.7m.
He said the ICB was working with NHS providers to implement a number of financial controls in order to bring spending under control. These included reducing the use of agency staff and trying to reduce demand for services. However, Councillor Vance expressed concern about the size of the deficit, saying it made him wonder “how well we are going to be able to perform and provide for our patients given that you don’t have the money.” Mr Black acknowledged that the financial position was extremely challenging but reassured the committee that patient safety would always come first. He said that the efficiency savings being made were about providing the same services at a lower cost, not reducing the scope of services available.
London Ambulance Service Performance Report
Alex Ewings, Associate Director of Ambulance Operations for the London Ambulance Service (LAS) in North East London, reported on the performance of the LAS.
He highlighted the following key points:
- Response times to Category 1 and Category 2 patients in North East London had improved in recent months.
- In August, the response time for Category 1 patients in North East London remained below 8 minutes, and the response time for Category 2 patients remained under the 30-minute target.
- There was a performance gap of about 15 minutes between the outer North East London boroughs, which were performing better, and the inner boroughs, which were performing worse.
- The LAS was continuing to work with NHS partners to reduce delays in handing over patient care at hospital emergency departments.
Councillor Chaudhry asked about the national target for Category 1 calls and whether delays at hospitals were impacting on the ability of the LAS to meet this target. Mr Ewings explained that the national target for Category 1 calls is 7 minutes and that the LAS was just over this target. He said that they were doing well nationally, and that there were no regular patient harm incidents as a result of the delays. However, he did acknowledge that delays at hospitals were a challenge for the LAS and could lead to delays in responding to other calls.
Councillor Brewer welcomed the efforts being made by the LAS to improve its performance, but expressed concern about the 30-minute target for Category 2 calls, saying that she would want to see the LAS more aligned with the national target of 18 minutes.
NELFT Updates
Paul Calaminas, Chief Executive of NELFT, provided an update on the performance of mental health and community health services. He highlighted the following key points:
- Mental health services were facing significant pressures, with increasing numbers of people presenting in crisis for the very first time.
- NELFT was needing to use additional beds on a daily basis to provide care for all of the outer North East London residents who need admission to hospital.
- They were working to address these pressures, including the opening of an additional crisis house in Redbridge and a mental health crisis centre at Goodmays Hospital.
- The proportion of the population in outer North East London able to access talking therapies had significantly increased and they were now able to offer a very prompt response to referrals.
- Physical health checks for people with serious mental illness had also significantly improved, and outer North East London was now among the highest performing areas in the country.
Councillor Brewer expressed her concern about the long waits for mental health patients in A&E departments, which currently stand at an average of 22 hours at BHRUT. She asked for reassurance about what was being done to reduce these waits. Mr Calaminas acknowledged the long waits and said they were working hard to reduce them, but explained that this was a complex issue and there was no quick fix. He said that many of the patients presenting in A&E were new to mental health services and had complex needs, and that they often had to wait a long time for a thorough assessment. He also said that the long waits were compounded by a lack of bed capacity, but that they were working to address this by opening new crisis beds.
Observations by Committee Members
Councillor Brewer and Councillor Chaudhry both expressed a preference for future meetings to be held in person, rather than online, so that they could better interact with officers. Councillor Brewer also expressed disappointment that several officers had had to leave the meeting early because of other commitments. She said that she understood that their time was precious, but asked that they try to allocate their time to allow them to attend the meeting in full. Councillor Chaudhry echoed this concern, saying that “time is precious for all of us”. Councillor Mazur, who was standing in for the committee chair at the last minute, said that he would pass these concerns on to the relevant officers.