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qualify for the committee. We have apologies from councillors Nuttall, Rogers and Steemson and executive members who aren't present. First item on the agenda is selection of chair. So I'll be asking for proposes and seconders. And if the proposal could just give a short speech on why they're nominating the person they are. So could I ask for nominations please?

Yes, thank you very much. I'd like to nominate and propose Councillor Suzanne Sanders to be the chair of this ONS committee. She certainly proved and demonstrated her expertise in coordinating and presenting items for the committee during the last year. Her involvement and full participation across the board has shown she's the ideal person to share this committee. This has been commented on by many throughout the year even I think the leader of the Conservatives has made comments as to her presentation. So I have no hesitation in recommending that Councillors Suzanne Sanders be the chair of the ONS committee. >> Thank you, Councillor Parker. Is that seconded? Second. >> Thank you, that's Councillor Hayes. Seconded, is there any other nominations, Council? I would like to nominate Councillor Phil Bullivant. I believe that as did the peer review group, that the chair of this committee should be a member of the opposition and I feel like Councillor Bullivant has the experience to chair this. And I think he'd make a great chair. And I'd like to propose Councillor Phil Bullivant. Councilor Holy say seconded, that's Councillor Paul Parker seconded. Any other nominations? Okay, so we have two nominations. Councillor Collin Parker seconded by Councillor Hayes as nominated Councillor Suzanne Sanders and Councillor Hall seconded by Councillor Paul Parker as nominated Councillor Bullivant. So if we can go for a show of hands on voting, if we can, all those in favour of Councillors, that's 10. All those against? That's 6. And any abstentions? No abstentions. That's 10 votes for and 6 again. And because we have another nomination, I'll just take that one. All those in favour of Councillor Bullivant, please? Yes. >> Yes, that's 6.4 and against. And that's 10 against. Any abstentions? That's no abstentions. So voting is for Councillors, Sanders, 10, 4, 6 against and Councillor Bullivant is 6-4 and 10 against. So I declare Councillor Sanders duly elected as chair for the municipal year. Thank you. ‑‑ thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. ‑‑ thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. ‑‑ thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. ‑‑ thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. [ Silence ] [ Silence ] [ Silence ] [ Silence ] [ Silence ] Good morning, thank you, and I'm very happy to continue in the world of chair, which I began last July, so thank you. So with that any further ado, I propose that we actually move to the election of vice chair, and can I ask for nominations, and composers and seconders for each, proposes to give a short presentation on why they should be the vice chair. Each member of the committee to vote for one nominee, Vice Chair of Hands, thank you, and Councillor Colin Parker. Thank you very much, Chair, and congratulations. I'd like to nominate Councillor John Parake as Vice Chair of this committee. John's been with the council since last year, he was the vice chair of ONS1 for a while before moving to chair. John has a background of finance, extensive knowledge and finance, and has proved his abilities in many other areas, especially tasks and finish groups as well. So I would no hesitation in recommending Councillor John Parake's vice chair of this committee. Thank you, and is that seconded? Thank you, Councillor Henderson. Do I have any further nominations, please, for vice chair? Councillor BOLlevent? Can I propose Alex Forr to be vice chair? It's extremely perturbing that yet again we're seeing a domination by the lipdems of feeling every possible seat on this Council. We're losing completely the bipartisan approach that this Council should be having, and I think that we need somebody, as vice chair, who can demonstrate a degree of independence, has the intellect to be able to fare to everybody in this community. And I think Alex has the experience to be able to do that, and has demonstrated it in many occasions I've known him. He'd be an excellent vice chair, and I certainly recommend him to this committee for that position. Thank you. Is that seconded, please? Thank you, Councillor Radford. And if we can go to the vote, please, can we have a show of hands for the first proposal, which was on Councillor...? John Parrott, sorry. Let's show of hands for John Parrott as vice chair, please. That's a nice show. Oh, sorry. Ten. Ten. So we have ten, and those gains, we have six. And the second show of hands, please. Or Councillor Hall as proposed for vice chair. That's six. And maybe we have show of hands for those against Councillor Hall as vice chair. What do we need to be a simple vote for? If we can just conclude that with a show of hands against, thank you. For against Alex Hall as vice chair, just for clarity. Thank you. So I did declare as vice chair, Councillor John Parrott. Thank you. [ Pause ] [ Pause ] Thank you Councillor COCKS. I appreciate what your, if I may finish, it's optional, I guess, really. Yes, in one way you are correct, but I think for clarity we have just addressed it so there's no confusion. So, yes, you could say after the first vote that it was negated, but in fact we've just done it for clarity. Madam Chair, in view of the fact that this is now... Mr. Chair, a committee which doesn't represent the will for the outlines of the... Councillor Buallyb your comments. Yes. May I just say the LGA and the CFGS do not state that it should be a leader of the opposition. The peer review suggested that it be considered and as stated by yourself, leader of the Conservatives, you congratulated me twice for my professionalism. So, thank you. [ Pause ] So, we move to the matters of the agenda. I'd like to welcome you all to the meeting. Then, no fire alarm test is planned. Should the fire alarm sound please leave the room and meet at the far end of the car park. Please keep points short and I ask members not to repeat points that have already been raised. Voting will be done by a show of hands. Please indicate if you would like to speak on an item by a show of hands. Should the meeting be adjourned, any filming must stop, unless the express permission from those being filmed has been obtained. I would like to welcome Vice Chair, Councillor JOHN PARRETT into this role. First item point three is to approve the minutes of the 26th of March and the 9th of April. I would like a proposal and a seconder for each set of minutes please. So, there are two sets of minutes because we have the two screutannies. The first one being 26th of March only in Screutony Committee one. May I have a proposal please? Sorry, can I raise the point of order? I don't think there's a problem here but for clarity can we just check what the quorum of this committee has. And be clear about that before we take a further vote. Would you mind? Thank you. Yes, it is a quarter of members so we do have ten in the chamber and six that have left the chamber. Thank you, Chair, for the clarity. Thank you. Thank you for questioning it as well. So, going back to the over-iscretionary one minutes of March 26th may I have a proposal to agree those minutes. Thank you. That's Councillor Parrett who is chairing and a seconder please. I was in attendance so I can second it and I've got John. Shouldn't John speak. Can we have a vote for the approval of those minutes please? And you can vote even if you were not attending if you're taking that lead. Thank you. That's carried. Thank you. Do you want John to sign it or not? Thank you. And then moving to the minutes of the unscroutinging two. Could of the 9th of April to approve those minutes. May I have a proposal? Thank you. Councillor Parker and a seconder. Councillor Hayes, thank you. All those in favour of approval of the minutes please. Show of hands. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7. That's carried, Chair. Thank you. Are there any declarations of interest please? If you can raise your hand. No declarations of interest, thank you. Public questions, we have none. Councillor questions, we have none. The Executive Forward Plan can be found at the link provided in the agenda and shows issued to be considered by the Executive over the next few months. Any issues wishing to be considered by this committee should be brought to a committee prior to the matter being considered by the Executive. Does any member of the committee have any comments or questions please? No, thank you. Does any member of the Executive have any comments or questions please. No, at the back, no thank you. Moving to point eight, the overview and scrutiny forward plan. This can be found at the link provided in the agenda and shows issues to be considered by this committee over the next few months. The Councillors proposal form should be used if members have any items they wish to add to the program. Are there any comments or questions? Thank you. Number nine, Digital Connectivity for Households to consider the attached proposal submitted by myself. You have all had the link to that which is on the agenda. And that's on page 13. Are there any queries or questions regarding this? This is regarding the global broadband coverage proposed and that we requested a representation from BDUK to come in and discuss with us the changes that were presented to us quite late in the program. No, thank you. So that's 13 to 15. So can we have a show of hands to approve that proposal with sorry a proposal and a seconder. So a proposal for the proposal to move forward. Thank you, Councillor Henderson. And a seconder please. Councillor Parker, thank you. And a show of hands. That's 10, Chair, and that's carried. Thank you. We now have point 10, the Executive Member Biannual Update. Thank you, I'd like to invite Councillor perthalpe to stay at Sasets Parking and Economic Development to come to update us on your portfolio. Thank you. Over to Councillor Pailville. Try that one. Thank you, Chair, the Vice Chair, and congratulations on your democratically elected positions. You will all be pleased to know, Committee, that I haven't got a load of slides to show you. I will give you an update now on where we were from the last time I gave this presentation, where we were considering bringing forward the Strategic Asset Plan. That will come to the Executive on the 4th of June and there will be a presentation on teams for all members tomorrow morning at 10 o'clock and again at 5.30 tomorrow afternoon prior to it coming to the Executive. The reason we've brought it forward in discussion with the officers is because it is quite a complex document and rather than wait for the Executive we think that if there is, well, if there is any input from Councillors, then it would be very useful to have those inputs beforehand. So I would ask if anybody, if those people can, attend to attend. The strategic policy itself, just to give you an overview because I don't want to steal Tom Phillips's thunder tomorrow, is we have a very large and varied estate across the whole of the district and that comprises of the land and buildings. The land holdings with equivalent to put it in realistic terms that I can understand anyway is equivalent to 749 rugby pitchers. But surprisingly, we only own in terms of land and buildings, 0.8% of the entire district. So of our 269 square miles, TDC itself only owns 0.8% of that. The building floor, and that's land, the building floor areas are the equivalent to 24 with this building. And that's 327 buildings, which when you get the opportunity to read the report, as I said, is quite varied. We own three chapels. We lease a WC. We've got meteorological stations. We've got bird heights, nurseries, libraries, pavilions and aviary. It's amazing when they brought all this together from the services, just what CDC owns. In addition to that, there are land that we are totally responsible for maintaining and that mainly involves the 22 graveyards that are closed. Because once they close a graveyard, then the maintenance responsibility reverse to the local council. So we do have 22 graveyards that want our ground maintenance contract and we are legally about bound to protect that. Of the buildings, of course, they're not just sole occupation. There are buildings as well, such as Sherborne House, where we have sub-blocks. In other words, we've got more of the more tenant leased out into those properties. The highlights will be treated. What it does mean in the strategic essay policy is that what it highlights very clearly is there has always been, I think, in all local authorities for the last 15, 20 years, an emphasis on what savings can we make. But ultimately, you have to stop making savings and you have to start generating income. If we want to deliver the services that all Councillors wish to serve to their communities, then we have to change our mindset from talking just about savings, but also about how do we grow the economy within Cambridge so that we can get the income to provide those services. The days I'm afraid to put it bluntly of councils just being approached and allowing everybody free access or free services are over. Those days are over and they're well gone. What it does mean, of course, is that if we wish, as we do, to look after the vulnerable and to look after those organisations that serve our communities, we also have to look at developing a very fair concession and subsidy policy, which is not a one size fits all to take into account each individual asset as we go forward. I think that's extremely important because it remove any doubt about whether or not it's a fair system when we're considering subsidies and concessions to organisations that we wish to support. I think that's extremely important for us going forward and it's important for the community to realise that it is going to be a very fair system. I would also bear in mind, as people, when you do read the strategic asset policy, that this has been based and written against the current council strategy. It will be reviewed against the new council strategy when it comes out later on in the year. So that's where we are. I think we also have to bear in mind, as a local authority, whatever government is in power, the chances of going back to the 60s and 70s and having massive increases in government support will not happen. I think we have to say that realistic view and tackmatic view. It will mean that when we look at all the assets going forward individually, in order to release funds to provide those services we want to provide, we will have to consider each asset by asset whether or not we retain it, whether or not it's valuable to the community or whether or not we dispose of it, either for financial, financially to provide funding for the capital program or to release funds, to be able to release FAFF revenue fund. That is the real, I think that's the realistic pragmatic way that I will ask councillors to look at this. It's very easy and I think I've been as guilty as anybody else to say this is what I want for my local community without really giving due to regard to the fact that what impact does that have on somebody else's community? Because whilst I get the funds, who's not getting it? And I think that's where we've got to look at it from a corporate approach to asset management rather than a service-by-service approach. So, please, the presentation tomorrow, if you can attend all, please do. Because I think it's a very valuable document and it's taken some considerable time to bring it all together. Moving on to Karlpark in and I will take questions at the end if you wish or while I'm going. The Karlpark operational report from ONS was noted by the executive and they agreed that it would be a good idea for the ONS if they wish to, to reconvene, to take a strategic study and overview of all our Karlparks. It costed benchmarking them against local authorities from elsewhere in the region and developing their own as ONS. I'm entitled to bring up their own terms of reference for that strategic review without any interference from the executive. Just on one point I would like to make is we're looking at within my portfolio to refresh the Duke Knabba Town Centre development plan which is now well out of date, quite frankly, with House of Rail Hotel now being built, the cinema not being built, so it is time to refresh it and that will come forward later on in the year. The Market Hall Market Square planning application we're expecting to be submitted early next month, and that will allow us to go forward should that planning application be approved with the redevelopment of the Market Hall Market Square as part of the future High Street Fund. Consultation with the current market traders is ongoing and that has centred mainly around their relocation, their temporary relocation into the Post Office and other units that have been held open for some time strategically just for this purpose. So, that is going ahead, which is a project adjustment request for the future High Street Fund for the remaining two million pounds, is being developed and will be submitted, but I am hearing on the side of caution because Bill Oakley Department has given positive responses, of course that was before a general election was called, and I think we have to go on the side of caution, we don't know what any incumbent may do with funding that has not already been committed. But I am confident that the project adjustment request that is going in will be very, very strategically looked at and to the benefit of the people of not just Newton Abbitt but the whole district, going forward with a concentration on our main priorities, which is how do we go about providing more homes for families that are affordable, and that is the concentration that we are looking at with that. And finally, to ask if there's any questions, you will see this morning, for those who live in Newton Abbitt, that the construction teams are on site to do the enhancement of Queen Street. It is important, I think, that we recognize that those teams are doing their job, that they're being paid to do. And so if there are any issues they will be dealt with by the Azan person on site who has contacted all the businesses and has given them his mobile phone number, so if there are any issues they can phone him directly, and he will be on site all the time. He is not an employee of this council or Devon County Council. So I would ask, you know, people do go down Queen Street that they respect the people that are doing their job, that they are being asked to do, but also emphasize that Queen Street is open for business. So whether or not you want to buy whatever you want to buy, whatever is not offered in Queen Street will continue to be on offer for the duration of the works and well beyond. This is a really exciting prospect, and I hope that people will continue to support the businesses in Queen Street as we go forward. So I will leave it there, Chair, and if you've got any questions I'll be quite happy to answer them. Thank you Councillor Pailfor, that's a very informative update. Do any members of the committee have any questions for Councillor Pailfor? Councillor Henderson, thank you. So, is this Council matter in empty or unused assets? Do you know how many we've got where they are? Yes, we are monitored, they are monitored. Some are held open for strategic purposes. The majority of our empty properties are those that are unletable. So we're talking about badly land where we own a lot of properties and some industrial units that are no longer letterable for this day. And those areas have been marked down for redevelopment going forward. So they are monitored. We have a very low... In terms of our commercial units, so shop units effectively, we have very low empty units in relative terms. And most of those were held strategically within market walk. The ones that we own are empty, that we haven't been able to... Basically, we don't have access to. Our people like the Wilco block, but that comes because of legal reasons. It's in administration and the lease is still extant. And until such time as that runs out, then we will not have access to that building. But we are talking, you know, soft marketing to see... One set, one of those units come free, how we can... We're soft marketing at the moment to see if there is any interest. Thank you, Councillor Dawson. Yeah, I guess I wanted to ask about the asset strategy. I think it's great to have a strategy going forward. I think it's great to have different paths to that strategy, different strands of it, commercial and those that are of community value. And I know that you and I have spent some time here in my patch of Diorlish. I just wanted to ask, to what level is there acknowledgement and... To what level is there thought to how this can be achieved? You can't switch from one strategy or policy to another instantly, where there won't be some issues. I'm talking really about, for decades actually, there's a couple of bowling clubs in Diorlish, where work that's needed done, to be done, hasn't been done by Teambridge. And urgent work in one of the clubs, actually, the club factor paid into it themselves and they're now trying to get that money back. I think, if we talk about... I guess I want to know to what extent it's acknowledged that there needs to be an individual approach to each of those assets. And that actually, that might involve releasing funds to be able to do those buildings back up to how they should be before negotiating terms and issues going forward. So I'm not probably not being very clear. I don't want to go too much into it, but I actually want to explain. There's just been underfunded maintenance of buildings, and obviously we know that's a slippery road to go down. We have community groups that are in these buildings and need to secure further leases, or as you say, maybe a different plan with assets. You know, you couldn't sell an asset, for example, for £100,000 when it's falling down, because it hasn't been maintained for such a long time, which is obviously has been the responsibility of the landlord, which has been Teambridge. So I kind of want to know what conversations are going on about that, because that's very different to just jumping straight into another strategy. There's going to be some areas and some clubs, for example, that are going to need a helping hand if things are going to look different to them in the future, rather than just a simple landlord-content relationship. Thank you. Well, the asset management policy itself comes in three sections. There's the strategic asset policy, which is for five years, there's the asset management strategy of how we manage those, which is a three-year program, and then out of that will be a one-year action plan. What is very clear in this, as I said, is that when we talk about 650 community assets, we may be talking about, and I can give you an example for MipplePRN, there is a patch of grass. It's the only piece of land that you see on in MipplePRN, in my ward. And it's less than this size here. It would need to make up a MIDI football pitch. That's the kind of asset that is being maintained, and we're putting funds into, which actually seems to be, you know, a misnomer in the sense that in the future, in the sense that it may very well be that somebody else can take that on. There are also the issues around funding, for instance, and we know that we've got some councillors who have applied to take on play areas in their area, which then reduces the cost there. So it is about finding the funding from those areas that we can in order to promote and to look after those organisations that you're talking about. Yes, it won't happen overnight. There's no doubt about that, but I do think that this is the starting point for us in our action plan to say which of those important assets to the community we wish to support, and then how do we fund it? It seems that the mindset – and this isn't just Cambridge, this is all local authorities – this is how much money we've got. Now we're going to work out what we're going to spend it on, rather than saying this is what we want to do, how are we going to fund it? So where you've got organisations and buildings that require that work, we need to be more business-like. We're not a business because we're a local authority, but we have to be business-like and say this is how much this building is going to cost, this is how much it's going to maintain it, this is how much it's going to support us to support this organisation. Now we've got to find the funding. Rather than the other way around, we've only got 10 pounds, so we can only spend 10 pounds. We need 20 pounds, we have to find 20 pounds, and we can find that by managing our assets more effectively. And I believe bringing them all into a corporate area, rather than leaving them in services, allows us to do that because that will give us a freedom to be able to look corporately at those issues. I just wanted to if I could come back to the raise point, that's okay. I guess it's also about pushing to have those who are just now in rolling contracts for tenancy, and therefore are unable to seek grant funding for major works and things like that. They're kind of trapped at the moment, so they have a building that's not fit for purpose, they have a landlord who's in a state of change at the moment, so they're not securing another lease whatever, but it means that we have some community organisations like the bowling clubs who could be going for grants for other things that need doing, the aren't responsibility of Teambridge at the moment, but they can't do that because they don't have a long lease in place. So I guess I just want to highlight again, and I know I've had you out to Dorlish now, and you're welcome to come to Dorlish again anytime, but we really need to make sure that those that are in those kind of dire straits really, those organisations need to be coming to the top of that priority list as we adopt a new policy. Is my plea? No, I think that's not - if I can share through you, I think that's where councillors come in. So we need councillors to be able to tell us what are the priorities within their areas and their wards, so that they can be brought to the top, but I think it's essential that as community champions, we as you have today is pushed forward, you know, those areas and those organisations that are a priority to their areas, and I think that's essential. Thank you. And I believe we do have the assets working group, which we'll set up probably end of June, early July, so that will be where those matters will come to the forum be discussed, so thank you for that. I know it's been of concern in the medium term financial group as well that we do give a considerable amount of time to assets and there will be a briefing coming as well for all members. So Councillor Cox had his hand up, but I've got Councillor Parker ready to go, so Councillor Parker. All right, not so much questions, but just a couple of comments, you brought up regarding the product adjustment request for, you know, the monies we've got left and change of government and their election and everything. What's your feelings regarding that? I mean, it's a difficult one, you know, to know what's going to happen there. But if we've got ideas that we want to do and the election comes along on that spoil, I mean, it's going to spoil some of our plans sort of thing, really, and I'll carry on with it, you may, and you can come back to that. I don't ask too much in detail because if we've got a briefing tomorrow, perhaps certain things may not be should be brought out in open, but perhaps, you know, we wait for the briefing from Tom Phillips tomorrow, and I'll try to obviously to attend that. But I've got concerned about asset review and perhaps if we dispose of certain assets, you know, to help the TDCs forward financial plan, really. What will happen in the future? That can't happen again, you know, we can't keep on getting rid of assets to save help our finances. And I've got a particular concern about community benefit assets, and you probably know where I'm coming from with that, because there are certain assets, one in specifically I'm thinking about, really, really concerned that if something happens with that to affect the ongoing plans for it, you know, that's going to be a real, you know, kick in the teeth for local community. So, not so much questions I know you can answer, but your views would be appreciated. Okay, thank you. Well, Chair, quite clearly the PAR that it's going in for the additional funding. The... I'm quite confident actually that when the project adjustment request goes in, because we are concentrating on housing, which all political parties are saying is an essential thing, that it will be favorably looked at for that additional money. Existing committed money is not the issue. It's what they do with it afterwards, what they do with that uncommitted funding. So, from a personal view, I'm very confident, you know, I'm confident in the offices and the way they approach projects adjustment requests, the detail they put into them, the professional is on the room, that they will make a very strong case for us to continue, you know, with that. So, I'm quite confident on that. I quite agree there are... we can't keep selling off assets, but on the conscious side of that is, you can't keep... you can't continue with assets that are preventing you from delivering community benefits to people. So, it is going to be a question of us seriously sitting down and going, This is a community benefit interest. This is the interest of the community. If we have to sell that to fund that, then that's what we have to do. Now, I could dress it up. But if I dressed it up, nobody would believe me. That is the reality of finance in this day and age, is that we need to identify those community interests, those community groups, those organisations we wish to support, who are delivering services for us, as a council and delivering services to the most vulnerable, and those most in need in the society. Particularly in areas of deprivation. Particularly in those areas of deprivation, not just in towns, but also those of the unfamiliar deprivation. So, from that point of view, the strategic asset plan will be slanted towards, you know, what is important to the community, rather than to, We've got this, so let's just hang on to it because it's always been ours. Because many of these things we've inherited 50 years ago when the council was formed. And it is a case of, Well, we've always had it. Well, and, you know, so I think it's important. What we haven't got to do is use any released funding to go towards saving. It has to be channeled into delivering the services we as councillors. You know, and as a council, what does he deliver? I suppose I can do it at the moment. Thank you, councillor Bevlle and councillor Cox. Sorry, could you put your microphone up, please? Well, I can hear you, councillor Cox. Thank you very much. It's just whether we should be looking at some voluntary groups, assume the council is an endless, has a magic money tree, and they are reluctant to look to grants. I think we've got to look at some of our assets, outsourcing them and getting the groups to apply for grants from different things. It is hard work, but it is doable. And it's sometimes all too easy to demand that the district council pays up for people's effectively hobbies. So I think, do you look at giving away some assets? If they are costing you money, they are not worth having. Well, I think that that depends on when we say not worth having. That depends on the value to the community and what value to the community we put on that. So I do think, I mean, in the ideal world, all groups that are supported by the local authority will, over a period of time, are sustainable, self-sustainable, so that that funding can then be put into other groups and to other services. But we do know that there are certain groups, particularly vulnerable groups, and vulnerable organizations with a very vulnerable, that will never be self-sustaining. And we then have a moral responsibility, I think, as a local authority that will continue supporting those organizations. One thing I think, every asset, and it comes back, I mean, to what council dawson was asking, when each asset is considered one by one, there will be a challenge system, which is within the document of the decision, challenge of decision, value to the community before the final decision is made. There will be a structure where all those decisions and the values of organizations of the community are assessed against a very strict criteria, you know, because I think it's important that we do challenge them rather than just, okay, we think you're very good, so we will, you know, we will fund you. Because that is not the way we should be operating, because we don't have any money. And when I say that, we only have taxpayers' money. This is not the council's money, it's a taxpayers' money. And they want to see value for money as well. Thank you. Councillor Henderson, please. Councillor interjecting. Yeah. So there was an issue about historical rent reviews. Can I ask where we are on that? Because there's quite a few things within my area that were affected by that. And also, can we have some reassurances that it's not going to happen again? I can reassure you it's not going to happen again. That has for certain. You know, I can give you that assurance that will not happen again. In terms of, I can't talk about individual businesses obviously, but in terms of the past historical position they were in, they have been resolved, you know, some various means. So they have been resolved. As far as I'm aware, you know, those that people what to my attention have reached a resolution, and an agreement with the people who have got the lease. Yeah. Thank you, Councillor Dawson. Sorry, I'm new to scrutiny. So, do tell me if I'm in space to speak once. I just wanted to just press the importance or ask how that asset challenge would work. If that is intended, I know it's early days, but if that's intended to be a tick box that a group of officers do, does it involve the portfolio holder? Does it, obviously we just say, wouldn't we come into full council, but does it involve the elected members from that area? If we're aiming to become this community powered council, is it going to involve forums in the community? I just kind of wanted, you might not have an answer to it because it's quite early days, but if there's going to be an asset challenge as to how, what assets, what community groups get support, and how a particular asset is dealt with, which would be interesting to know if there is a planner, if there isn't, I'd like to urge that there is a plan that somehow involves the community, but definitely involves the member for that area, because I think sometimes there are decisions that look quite clear on paper and make great financial sense, but actually as people who know that community really well, or people who know how that asset is used really well, I just think there's great value in extending that conversation, I appreciate you might not have an answer to that. Well, what I can tell you is the asset challenge and review of each asset we'll be looking at, and it will include the local councillors. It has to include the local councillors. Is the purpose of that asset? Because that's where you start anything. What is the purpose of this asset? The suitability of that asset, so it might be the people who are applying for something that's basically not in a suitable location or a suitable building, so how do you find it's almost suitable? You then, once you've got that, you then have the challenge about, well, who decides the purpose, who decides the suitability? And whoever is looking at that needs to be challenged on why do you think the way you think, either or against an asset? I think it's important to have that challenge. That then has to be reviewed, and I think that should be viewed, and that's where I'm sure councilors will be involved all the way along. Once we're in that position, then we should go out to consultation with the public, and it may be that consultation comes prior to one of these steps because these things never are a strict line. And then we have to discuss what the outcome is of that whole review, and then there are three outcomes, aren't there? You hold the asset because it's of community value, or it's a value tool is going forward. We look at the asset and we improve it, so we hold it as it is, or we improve it to deliver what we regard as being suitable, or we dispose of it, because if we've got something that's falling down, and for instance, if we have an industrial unit that's beyond repair, but we're still playing business rates on it, then it makes sense to actually dispose of that or to utilise that line for something else. So there is that purpose, suitability, the challenge, the review, the consultation, an outcome decision at the end of it. And I think that's where we feel, is it a wide economic benefit, is it a wider community benefit to that asset? What is the potential use of an asset? Because what we see as an asset now may, down the line, we may hold it because we say, well, going forward, that would be a very valuable asset that we can utilise, you know, for using the community, going forward, you know. So, for instance, do we hold something so we can unlock it for development? Down the line, rather than dispose of it? So I think that's the asset challenge and review, the route that we would go through, you know, from, is there an operational need now? Is there a community need now? Will there be an operational need and a community need in the future? And that I believe is where this is a document that will, because it's looking at the core for overview of the whole of our assets and mistakes, will be valuable to us going forward. As the chair says, said earlier, you know, over you and scrutiny have got assets, you know? But it will be a question of identifying what, precisely you would like to look at, because clearly you can't look at all the assets in one go. So it may be sequenced of different kind of assets as you go forward, but that's your choice. There's no view and scrutiny. Thank you, Councillor P dust. Do we have any further questions for Councillor PAolfield? Post product. No? Thank you very much. Oh, Councillor Anderson. Could you use your microphone, please? Thank you. If I have to, yeah. Can I just say thank you to you, David, for your help in our area, you and your team, for the help with the windows that are greatly appreciated. So just to put out my applause. You're welcome, Mr. Team effort. And I think, you know, the officers of the Council, you know, should we give them all the credit for dealing with these issues? Thank you. Councillor PAolfield, that's a really good introduction to a large piece of work that has been undertaken by our officers and yourself and no doubt leads us into a great amount of scrutiny that we need to do coming forward that will be quite an extensive piece of work we've mentioned previously. So that concludes Point 10. Moving on to 11, the Councillor's strategy, a quarter to three performance monitoring report. We do have Jack Williams performance and data and list present. Thank you, Jack. And the recommendation is set out at page 17. All of the data you will find, I think, pages I've got page 5, but it's from page, yeah. 19 to 27 and moving forward, actually, further than that. So the report is at 17 to 21 with appendix 23 to 44. So if I can ask Jack to actually present any information and answer the questions for us. Thank you. Thank you. Yes, this is the first one where we've got our RS-1 to combine together. So you've got the full list of PIs and projects there. In the appendix, you'll see most of the underperformers are around housing and homelessness. And I think you've got one there for customer support as well at the bottom. The ones for housing and homelessness are they tend to be repeated each quarter for similar sort of reasons around national targets being quite high. And you can see in the comments as well, which is all the offices I've written there. There's none that particularly stand up this quarter that we want to pick on, but I'd have to take any questions if anyone has any in the room. Thank you. Do we have any questions from the performance and data? Thank you. Can't look on a parker? Yes, thank you. I mean, it's not specific anything you can answer, I don't think, but I do have real concern about the housing situation, because it's not just in the red, it's well in the red in certain places. I mean, 720 annual target in that additional homes, and we're at 435, which is a long way down, in fact for all of them. And, you know, we're real concerned now, just wondering what's going to happen regarding any measures in the future regarding this situation, because we were sort of getting better. But I think it's sort of slumped back a little bit again, so I don't know if you can say anything on that, because I know it's not strictly your field. I can say the figure there is 435. Is that actually an interim figure checking it as of now for the whole year. It's actually 495. I think the last two years have been in the 500s, so it's not far off of that. But, yeah, it's obviously the national target. 720, it's still there, it's still a gap there. And that's what I can say. Yeah, yeah. Obviously, I just thought I would make that point, that it's there, and it's concerning ongoing. If we're consistently, like you say, the last few years, and this year, you know, in that position, then there's going to be questions asked, I feel. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Okay, I can't say any more. Thank you. I recall that actually some of the targets are down because obviously we can't make the building organisations build. The self-builds have been down for quite some time. I know in my area, only one self-build has been sold out of a whole, I think they built 64 dwellings, and then they had five plots for self-builds. So only one has recently been sold. We do have a policy to allow self-builds within the quota of the buildings, and obviously we don't get the sil money for those unless the builders decide that they're going to convert to normal residences and not a self-build, and that's their choice. Do we have any further questions, please, regarding the data? Yeah, I'll go back. Thank you. Yeah, it was just to note a concern, really, again, Jack of Space, you can't answer this, but concerned about the homelessness statistic again on the housing element, and, you know, the comment, the increase of affordability issues has reduced opportunities to help people remain in their home where the property is not affordable long-term. It is really what strategy we're going to put in place to help that high vulnerable group. Yeah, I can follow up with Tammy on that one, and just come back to you. Thank you. Any further questions, please? Well, thank you for attending. Jack, it's been really helpful to have you present and give us the very latest up-to-date information, which is something I really do think we should try to achieve on a regular basis. So the fact that you've looked in advance for us is helpful. So beyond that quarter, thank you. Do you have members of the executive here? So does anybody have any questions from the committee for Councillor Taylor? No. And do we have any further questions? I think you've asked plenty of Councillor Pailthorke. Thank you. So moving towards the proposal and a seconder for the recommendation to note the report and the actions being taken to rectify performance issued, detailed in the appendix. May I have a proposal, please? Councillor Colleparca. And a seconder? Councillor Rosie Dawson, thank you. So we'll note those reports. Thank you. Oh, and a share of hands, sorry. Thank you, that's 10. So moving to .12 on the agenda, outside organisations, updates. This is a new item on our agenda and any meetings of the appointed outside organisation over the past few months will be presenting information. We don't have that scheduled today but it will be moving forward that all of those representing team bridge on the outside organisations will be giving us feedback on how those meetings have gone. So that's something really to look forward to and make sure that we know how we are being represented and what can be achieved by sitting on those organisations. Councillor Pailthorke you have a question? Just to comment, just to say that I'm on the Devon Building Control which is the organisation outside of the main committees here. And there was a presentation due the other day and I think only two of us Councillors turned up Councillors Swain and myself. I know there were other things going on but the next one which will help with that report so people understand Devon Building Control is on the third of June. So I would ask everyone if they can attend because it's an informative thing and so people know exactly what that organisation does for this area. Because it's a group of three councils Devon Building the Trail. It's team bridge West Devon and South Hamms. So it's a group organisation. So it's really worthwhile to attend it if you can on the third of June. Thank you for that Councillor Parker. It's really helpful to know. I know that we're scheduled a number of briefings as well but no that's very helpful. Councillor Parret. Yes, thank you Chair. Yeah I'm on the Devon Rail Forum group and I have to say it's not being a terribly satisfactory experience. We've had two meetings by Zoom from representatives all across Devon. Seems to be just focus on various organisations just reporting. I'm on it again for another year so what I'm proposing to do is to ask, in advance of the meeting we've got another meeting in July is to actually ask for Councillors for comments. In advance of the meeting I can then get put on to the agenda because I think there are important issues for us particularly things like the Civil because that will well turn up on this. And I think it's important that we do try and make the most of it. But I'm going to need help from other Councillors to do that. So I'll be mailing around in June for people to feed any comments they'd like me to get put on. Thank you Chair. Thank you. That's a really good point actually that as members we do ask questions of these organisations and I'd like to suggest that we perhaps put that within the members newsletter so that all members can have a say and put forward their questions for the people that are sitting on them because there's a vast number of organisations and obviously everybody has different interests that could impact. I think that might be the most beneficial route if I can ask for that to go on to the members newsletter. Thank you. Anyone else on outside organisations? No. Okay. Thank you. So we now come to Point 13 was a referral from Audit Committee regarding the webcasting of meetings. Alongside number 14 which is the various notices of motion which are regarding planning. We have three regarding planning. So what I think they were through. Yeah, yes. So what I would like to suggest to the committee is that although representatives that put forward those notices of motion are aware of them being presented today they are have chosen not to be present at this time and in the interest of us being a strong scrutiny team. I would like to suggest we defer Point 13 and 14 to the next meeting when I hope that they will be present. And I think that is really for clarity and transparency. I would like, if you have any queries regarding that, but otherwise I would like to propose that that is how we move forward. So I will propose that. And may I have a seconder? Yeah, Councillor Parker. Thank you. Yes, please do. Yes, Chair, you read my mind. I was thinking the very same thing. We should be open and transparent as much as we can. As you say, the members are the not named are ones that are not in the chamber. They were earlier. And I think it's only right that they should be here to listen to the debate. Speak on the debate if they're able. Because it's only right. I mean, the fact that they left for what they felt was not what they wanted. I don't think that's something that we need to take humming about. I think really we need to show that we are open and transparent. And for them to be here to get a full view of all those motions, I think that's only right. Thank you, Councillor Parker. So, may we have a shadow of hands, please, if there are no ones else querying. So, a shadow of hands that we defer points 13 and 14. That's unanimous. Thank you. Thank you to the officers that have sat here for those. Thank you for attending. 0.15 feedback on task and finish groups. For the same reason, I am going to propose that we defer feedback because the person presenting is no longer present. So, I would like to get a verbal update from the medium term financial plan chair. And so again, defer that to the next scrutiny meeting. So, yes, Councillor Parker. Sorry me again. On the same vein as the previous item, I would like to strongly encourage other members from other groups if they can to attend and join those tasks and finish groups. We've had issues all this last year about the same members being involved in the task and finish groups as a whole. And I think, really, we need to get everyone involved as much as we possibly can. Because otherwise, you know, there's going to be complaints and issues about not being transparent all the time, but if they don't want to take part, well, that's going to happen, isn't it? So? Thank you, Councillor. Yes, and I know that members of the Opposition have raised the fact that they want to be more effective within our task and finish groups. So, some of them are actually working and striving towards that. So, but yes, I think with 46 members, we should take off the executive from that. But we should be able to have a much more rounded input and share the workload really. And I think that's one of the issues that we do need to encourage all members to put their hands up and get involved. I appreciate a number of them are working during the daytime. So they do have issues. Councillor S this way? Thank you, chair. Are the risks of repeating ourselves? I would like to go on record that I think is a great shame that so many members are not with us now. We are missing out on their contributions. And also, just to add that the task and finish groups are among the best of my experiences of being a team, which, Councillor, has been on, is task and finish groups. That's where you're right on the frontline of actually making things better for the community. It's a shame that these decisions are going to be deferred and I just want to be on record as supporting that for you. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor Swain. I think it's the right decision. So, we've taken the vote on deferring, haven't we, yes. So, yes, I'm proposing that we defer point 15, the feedback. If we could have it seconded, was it Councillor Parker, thank you. And, show of hands, please, sir, it's unanimous, thank you. And that concludes our meeting. So, thank you all for your attendance. I would have to say it's been less lively and perhaps more dull, but thank you for your attendance. [BLANK_AUDIO]