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Special Meeting, Scrutiny Panel - Monday 11 November 2024 7.00 pm
November 11, 2024 View on council website Watch video of meeting or read trancriptTranscript
Special of Scrutiny Panel to all our guests in our virtual meeting room, everyone in the council chamber and to everyone watching online. Just a few housekeeping points before we proceed to the business of the evening. Just to make sure that everyone's aware that this meeting is being recorded and live streamed. Those of you who've got access to microphones, please keep them on mute throughout the meeting as this will prevent feedback. If you'd like to speak, raise your hand to get my attention. All comments will come through the chair. State your name and affiliation before you make any comment. For any virtual attendees, a chat function must not be used to have conversations with other participants or to provide personal information. Please only use the chat function to alert me if you wish to speak or to raise points of order or technical problems. This is a formal meeting of hackney council. Please note the press may be in attendance and the rights of the press and public to record and film the meeting will apply. So moving on to the main agenda for this evening. Apologies for absence. I've been notified of one member apology, Councillor Potter. Are there any others? Nope, thank you. Any officer apologies? I haven't been notified of any? No, thank you. Any other apologies? Nope, thank you. So moving on to item two, which is urgent items and the order of business. I've not been notified of any urgent items. So just, I would like to note for the record an error in the call in the call in cover report on page 16.3.4. This states the names of the councillors who called in this decision. In erroneously citing councillor Binnie Lovock, who's actually a member of the panel and should read councillors Garbert, Davis, Premrew, Turbot Deluff and Rout. So those are the true names of the call in councillors. So welcome to you all. So the scrutiny meeting this evening is a special meeting following a call in of an executive decision of Hackney Council. Hackney Council's constitutional call in procedure states that the scrutiny panel will hear from the lead requester, the cabinet councillor within whose portfolio this decision rests, and the case of a delegated officer decision, the officer who took the decision. So discretion of the chair scrutiny panel to allow any other persons to be heard at the meeting. As, you know, as part of the scrutiny function, also in my role as chair of scrutiny panel, I'm always keen to hear directly from members of the public and to give residents a platform to contribute to the council decision making where possible. We feel that's an essential part of scrutiny. Although we welcome and encourage participation from members of the public, this meeting is a formal meeting of the council held in public and not a public meeting, and that's a crucial distinction. The call in process this evening is focused on specific procedural grounds that are outlined in the call in procedure rules and the monitoring officers' report. At previous call in meetings, scrutiny panel has permitted other members of the public to make relevant contributions and to answer questions. An example is the recent call in relation to schools closure, where there's a number of contributions in parents. Prior to this meeting, scrutiny panel received a request from one of the calling councillors, Councillor Garbutt, to bring three residents to allow them to answer questions. Forced to receive two further requests from another resident, the National Federation of the Blind UK, to attend and speak at this meeting. At my discretion, I decided to allow all these requests, particularly as I felt the contributions are potentially relevant to whether the proposals are in the residents' interests. Members of the panel have received a number of emails questioning this decision over the weekend. The light of this situation, I've seriously considered limiting all contributions from residents and restricting participation in the meeting to calling councillors and the officers who are responding, as is my right of chair, and this is something I've discussed with the monitoring officer. However, on this occasion, I'm not going to do so, given that there is a genuine public interest in this decision, and I don't think that would contribute to the overall fairness of the evening. Just to remind people again, this is a formal meeting of the council, and to remind everybody, both here in the chamber and the public gallery, the right to expect all participants to be treated with courtesy and respect, that all contributors should be able to present their case without interruption, and to listen to the views of others respectfully. Contraventions of this may lead to the meeting being halted, and if necessary, members of the public gallery will be cleared. If the public gallery is cleared, this will include members of the public permitted to speak at the meeting as well. Having said all of that, I'd like to really warmly welcome everyone to this meeting this evening, and thank you for your participation in our local democracy, and let's have a really good discussion of this important issue. We're now moving on to item three of the agenda, declarations of interest. I'll start, although it's not strictly a declaration of interest. I'm on the mailing list of Hackney's cycling campaign, and I've cycled in Hackney and many other parts of London in a variety of conditions for over 30 years, so I do have some personal experience of this issue. I'm now going to call another members, Councillor Hayhurst. I'm a councillor for Hackney Central, where this sits. My only material comments on this is I did brief a local ward meeting in relation to it. I don't believe I expressed a view on it. I'm looking at the gentleman to the right of Councillor Garbick, who I believe was there at that meeting, so please let me know if you think in any way I did and I should recuse myself. I don't think I did, I think it was very much a briefing situation, but I don't, I just want to be above all forms of proprietary in terms of making that clear, but I don't believe I've expressed a prior view of the situation. Councillor Hayhurst. No, no, no, Councillor B. Levin. Just a non-precuniary interest in that I am a member of the London Cycling Campaign, which I believe makes me also a member of the Hackney Cycling Campaign. I'm also a cyclist within London, have been since I was a young man, and I have very almost been involved in a serious accident where two vehicles T-boned each other within a couple of metres of me on this particular junction. Sorry to hear that, thank you. Councillor Conway? I'm also a councillor in Hackney Central. Councillor Conway, so now to move on to the system, oh sorry, councillor. Yeah, I'm the council's disability and inclusions champion. Yeah, Councillor Garbick? And just to declare that I'm a keen cyclist. I also recently had my bike stolen. There's a lot of it around. I'm a slightly bad cyclist. Thank you. Any more declarations of interest or should we move on to item four? Okay, so moving on to agenda item four, this is a calling of the executive decision, CES 382, in relation to Amherst Road, Penbury Circus Transformation. So we've got one, yeah, so a key element to the scrutiny decision function, as I've sort of covered a little bit earlier, is to consider the calling of an executive key decision. This call-in meeting relates to the executive decision, CES 382, Amherst Road, Penbury Circus Transformation. This was a delegated officer key decision taken by the assistant director of street scene. The decision was published on the 14th of October, 2024. A call-in notice was received within five clear working days of the date of the decision being published, supported by Councillor Zoe Garbick, the lead councillor, and four other councillors, namely Councillor Liam Davis, Councillor Claudia Turbot-Dellorff, Councillor Frisk-Penru, and Councillor Penny Rout. I think you're all here this evening, thank you for coming. So the basis of the call-in, and please bear with me when I read this out, because there's a number of different peddings for it, is that the decision-maker did not make the decision in accordance to the principles of decision-making, and in particular, didn't make it in accordance with the presumption in favour of openness. It was inconsistent with the clarity of aims and desired outcomes. Relevant matters have been ignored, and consideration and evaluation of alternatives and the reasons for, there was insufficient consideration and evaluation of alternatives and reasons for decisions. So the second main point at the base of the call-in, the decision-maker did not act in accordance with the policy framework, as set out in the Constitution, and as a reference to that in your papers. The third point is the decision-maker failed to consider relevant evidence, as a reference to that in your papers. And the fourth point is the decision would not be in the interest of the borough's residents, and a preferable alternative decision could be adopted. Please note that at this stage, the lead call-in councillors may not seek to introduce any additional information and explanations, but the presentation will be based upon the reasons given in the call-in report on pages 21 to 47 of the papers. And I would say generally that as this, you know, the purpose of this meeting is to consider the call-in representations, that please could all contributions be focused on addressing them rather than any other matters that you've got on your mind. So thank you. So I'd now like to welcome to the meeting, I've already welcomed you, but I'll welcome you again, Councillor Zoe Garbutt from Dalston Ward, Councillor Liam Davis from State Newington Ward, Councillor Fritz-Premry from Fisseld Ward, Councillor Claudia Turbot-Dellup from Victoria Ward, Councillor Penny Routh also from Victoria Ward. And the officers we've got present are the Louise Humphreys on my left, the Acting Director of Legal and Democratic Electoral Services and our monitoring officer, Tyler Linton, the Assistant Director of Street Scene, Gita Subramanian-Money, I hope that's okay, so please correct me if it's not, yeah, the Director of Environment and Climate Change, Ryan Locke, Principal Traffic Engineer and Marianne Allen, the Group Engineer. Thank you all for coming this evening. And additionally, we've got in the Chamber, Mayor Caroline Woodley, Councillor Sarah Young, the Cabinet Member for Climate Change, Environment and Transport, Councillor Chris Kennedy, Cabinet Member for Health and other services, Councillor Fajana Thomas, Cabinet Member for Community Safety, he's not here, but maybe online, Councillor Kay's online, Councillor Robert Chapman, Cabinet Member for Finance, Riccardo Hyatt, he's also, I think, online, the Group Director for Climate, Homes and Economy. We've also got representatives from Hackney's Cycling Campaign, who will introduce themselves in due course. Andrew Hodgson from the National Federation of the Blind and local Hackney resident, Vincent Stops. And then we've got virtual attendees, Josephine Sturpedia, Senior Laureate, General Litigation and Public Realm, and Pranil Kapardia, Senior Transport Planner. So I will now invite the calling councillors to speak. So, councillors Zoe Garbutt and councillor Claudia Turbot-Dellof, you can do it in whichever order you want to. Please note that you've got up to 10 minutes for your presentation. Thank you very much. Thank you very much, Chair. I want to start by acknowledging how important tonight's decision is and how much this decision means to lots of people in this room as well as residents in the local area. As it's set out in our constitution, using the call-in mechanism should not be used lightly. The councillors who have come together to call in this decision are responding to concerns raised to us by our constituents, and we are acting on evidence that's been presented to us about the way that this decision is taken and to highlight the disastrous consequences of continuing with this decision as is. Which is why I'm glad that scrutiny councillors will be reviewing this decision. And we are confident that after you review of this information presented in the call-in and this evening, you will agree with that the decision requires further reconsideration or else risks moving forward with a decision that was not taken openly, has ignored relevant matters and has ignored a best practice alternative. A decision which is not in accordance with the council's policy frameworks and is not in the best interest of residents. Going forward with this decision condones the junction which will fail Vision Zero guidance for decades and embeds risk of serious injuries and death on our roads. Scrutiny panel, we are not expecting you to be experts in safe road design, but if warnings from experts are ignored, you do share the responsibility for the decision taken. This is your opportunity to consider whether you truly believe that all has been done to deliver the best Vision Zero child-friendly design in line with our transport and climate policies. And if you have any doubt at all, I implore you to refer the decision to cabinet or full council so the appropriate processes can be followed and the best, safest decision can be made. We are all challenging... We are challenging this decision on four grounds. The call-in document makes the case clearly for each of these grounds and Councillor Turbott-Dilof and I will cover these between us. The call-in is a challenge to the design of the Pembry junction, not of the full scheme, and I wanted to stress that the traffic orders in the decision will remain in both cases. We will not go through every point in the call-in where you are taking the information as read and will be stressing key important points and drawing your attention to areas you may like to question this evening. I wanted to highlight that the speakers later in the agenda only speak to one of these reasons yet have been given a disproportionate amount of time on the meeting's agenda. So, Scrutiny Committee, please remember that if you agree with any one of our reasons for call-in then the panel must call in the decision. Alongside us as councillors today, we have a traffic engineer, a resident rep with lived experience of the crossing and one representative from Hackney Cycling Campaign. And these speakers have been given five minutes in total, so they will rush through their points. But please... I'm stopping your time for this, but just to clarify that they will be given ten minutes in total. There's been a change in relation to that. I will add the time to your presentation. You're great. OK, thank you. That's great to hear. So, turning to the grounds of the call-in, I'm going to speak to two of the four grounds. So, the decision-maker did not make the decision in accordance with the principles of decision-making. What struck me as outrageous is how Hackney Cycling Campaign were asked by the then-Mayor and MP to write a letter of support for the Council's levelling up bid, which included cycle safety. Safe Cycling was mentioned nine times in the levelling up funding bid, and Vision Zero was also mentioned as a goal for the project in the bid document. Yet, the Council now claims in the decision document that it's a town centre scheme and not a safe cycling scheme. It's one of many examples that we lay out today about the lack of openness, 0.4, as well as the lack of clear aims and desired outcomes, 0.5. To note, Hackney Cycling Campaign have since said that they would not have supported the bid if they'd seen this final design. From information in our call-in, you'll see that the Vision Zero compliant design, so the green one that we've handed round, has not been assessed sufficiently. The call-in asks if we believe that a preferable alternative decision could be adopted, and we do. There is a preferable alternative Vision Zero compliant decision. This has been made available to the decision maker in July this year, but insufficient effort was made to explore it. The Council must demonstrate that all alternatives are being considered, yet there's no consideration of this layout remotely similar to the Vision Zero design contained in the key decision document. Further, the decision maker did not measure the two designs against the standard objective, quality and safety assessments available for junction design where cycling is present. This shows that relevant matters have been ignored, 0.6, and that insufficient consideration and evaluation of alternatives, 0.7, was also ignored. The decision maker, so the point B that I'll speak to you now, is the decision maker did not act in accordance with the Council's policy framework. So the decision goes against numerous Council policies, but particularly the local transport plan, as well as the Mayor of London's transport strategy, as well as our own climate action plan and child-friendly policies. As councillors, you'll know that Hackney's policies on cycling talk about widening access and increasing numbers. This decision will do the opposite. A lot of the justification for the Council's decision include general attacks on safe cycling infrastructure, which contradict this policy. Safety isn't a nice-to-have. It's fundamental to the Council's responsibility as a highway authority. You'll hear from Claudia, our resident, about the real-world impact of the design that does not prioritize safety. I'll now hand over to Councillor Turbot de Lof for a further calling, perhaps. Thank you, Councillor Gabbett. And just to reiterate, this calling is a challenge to the design at Pembury Junction, not to the full scheme. We're in full support of the initiatives to bring about a long-awaited overhaul and update to the Hackney Central Town Center. But it must be in a way that listens to all concerns raised over the design of such upgrades before a final decision is being made. And it must also fulfill all of the interests of Hackney residents. And that's why we're here today. Though not always obvious, I am myself partially blind and have been for many, for nearly three decades. And like me, there are many residents who are partially sighted, blind with protected characteristics and mobility issues who find extremely dangerous to move around the city and the borough either as a pedestrian or as a cyclist. Unfortunately, the lack of sufficient protected cycle lanes in the city leads many people to give up cycling because of the fear and anxiety of cycling through dangerous junctions in Hackney Central, which many regard as a death trap, a death trap or lethal as described in page 8 of the Council's moving around Hackney Central draft report. Whilst we are not here arguing over which designs should be used, our challenge is how the Council as a decision maker has failed to consider relevant evidence when making the decision and has ignored experts' warnings. Chair and members, I do plead to you to take our evidence seriously. And I know you do. That's why we're all here today. We appreciate you not experts on road safety, but at this crucial moment, it really is you who have the powers to request to refer the decision to cabinet or full council upon the evidence that we're presenting to you today and that could potentially save lives. Now, Hackney Council has been proud in introducing policies to increase cycling amongst residents. And we need to be ready for that. We dedicate the cycle lanes that protect pedestrians and cyclists of all ages as well as drivers. Now, here are the two points that I'm going to cover in this calling. Point six. Point C. The decision maker failed to consider relevant evidence when making the decision. Now, members, you might be aware that in order to receive funding from Active Travel England, a scheme like Pembry Circus would be expected to score 70% of above on the junction assessment tool. Hackney Council's design has only scored 25%. In your papers, it says 28, but it has been updated to 25, and you will see that in your packs. Now, the vision zero design scores 95%, which you can also see in your packs. Now, for this pack alone, the panel should refer the decision back to cabinet with a request that the two designs are independently assessed for safety before final junction design is confirmed. Now, we also believe that the decision maker failed to consider national guidance, and in a moment, you will hear from a respected traffic engineer on how the council's design falls well short of best practice. Now, I cannot come into the end of my intervention. So, point D, the decision will not be in the interest of the borough's residents and preferable alternative decision could be adopted. Now, our case here is that a junction with a 25% junction assessment tool cannot be considered or accepted to be a good outcome for residents of Hackney. In fact, the council's plan will lead to more people cycling on the pavement around Pembry Circus as cyclists will feel safer to choose to be on the pavement over crossing such dangerous junctions. Now, the vision zero design has designated separated areas of cycling and pedestrians, thus bringing more predictability and safer cycling and pedestrian routes. As a final point, it's important to add that the removal of pedestrian crossing was highlighted as a risk in the road safety audit and especially at risk to blind and partially sighted people. The vision zero design retains this crossing. Now, to conclude, and will perhaps address some possible arguments and concerns from members in the room that I'm glad also to see in the chamber. Dedicated cycle and pedestrian lanes separated from motorists increases safety for all involved. And yes, there are improvements to be made where cyclists and pedestrians meet. But with a sufficient right infrastructure and education, it can become a leading and proud feature of the world. Hackney Council has a golden opportunity to lead the way in reassessing this decision and introducing the best, safer, forward-thinking design for the Painbury Circus that show that it is possible to coexist with every resident's needs and safe lives. Now, I will hand over to members of the Hackney Thinking Campaign for conclusions. Thank you. Thanks very much, Councillor Garbert and Councillor Turbot-Della for keeping your contributions well in time and also addressing the issues and I'd ask all further contributors to do the same. I'll be timing you and I'm happy to give you a warning just before you come to the end of your time if that's helpful. So, sorry, who's going to be the next speaker? Can you introduce? Yeah, thank you. Hi, everyone. My name is Claudia Skernia. I'm a Hackney resident and about a year ago I was hit by a car and left unconscious, heavily bleeding from my head in the middle of Pembury Circus. The accident has had a huge impact on my life. I had to leave my job. I missed out on nearly half of my master's degree and I struggled with post-concussion syndrome for several months which causes really heavy migraines and several other cognitive issues. And all of this for crossing the junction exactly the way it was meant to. The road safety audit found that on the junction design found that that exact movement that I did that night is a known risk. But the new design suggested by Hackney isn't addressing that risk at all. However, the Vision Zero design proposed by the London cycling campaign would eliminate that risk altogether. So I just wonder why pass a design that ignores unknown risk which is not just a known risk but is a risk that caused my accident and is likely to cause many others when there is an option that would eliminate that risk altogether. Thank you. Thank you very much for coming this evening. And you also shared footage of your accident and I'm very happy to share with the meeting that was a truly shocking incident. I'm really pleased to hear that you're recovering and thank you very much for coming this evening and sharing your experiences with us. Thank you. Beautifully to time. Who's speaking next? Thank you, Chair. My name is Mark Philpots. I'm a Chartered Civil Engineer with 30 years of experience including highways and sustainable mobility design and I work an independent sustainability mobility design specialist. I hold three professional fellowships with the Institution of Civil Engineers, the Chartered Institute on Highways and Transportation and the Institute of Highway Engineers, respectively. I'm also a member of the Transport Planning Society and an associate member of the Society of Road Safety Auditors. I've had a look at the casualty data for the junction and in the last 10 years to December 2023 there have been 88 injury collisions of which 13 were serious. The most vulnerable are overrepresented with 18 involving cyclists, 9 involving pedestrians and 16 involving motorcycle riders or passengers. The cyclists, five of those collisions involved serious injury. It is reasonable that from an injury collision perspective the junction currently works poorly for everybody especially the most vulnerable. It's not just about the recorded injuries it's also about the risk which the complexity of the junction adds to. It is also about subjective safety and there is no doubt that the junction is subjectively unsafe for cycling. Although pedestrians have controlled crossings the layout is nonetheless awkward for walking and especially wheeling. Given the council secured a significant budget for the project there is an ideal opportunity for complete redesign of the space and given the objective and subjective safety issues cycling should be at the heart of such a design. The council's preferred design certainly improves the layout for walking and wheeling on four of the junction arms plus that diagonal crossing however the loss of the Amherst road crossing is a reduction in the level of service and creates a safety risk where people still cross on the design lines. Paragraph 17 of the scheme description of the key decision report suggests that this emission is for motor traffic capacity reasons. From a cycling perspective the council's preferred design does little for cycling safety accessibility and convenience and builds in risk for the future. The council's design relies on cyclists mixing with motor traffic which countless market research surveys reveal as being highly unsatisfactory for many people but simply people which should be protected and feel protected from traffic unless flows alone. The council's design utilises advanced stop lines these provide the lowest level of protection for cyclists according to paragraph 10.6.5 of the local transport note 195 cycle infrastructure design which is the national guidance for England. The council's also decided to provide some arms with early release which is one step above advanced stop lines in the same guidance however paragraph 18 of the scheme's description in the key decision report suggests that only Dawson Lane South and Pembury Road shall have an early release of only four seconds due to motor traffic capacity. Advanced stop lines and early release only provides assistance for cyclists who enter the area at a red signal. They provide no protection whatsoever when the green signal is running. The council's design also makes use of mandatory cycles lanes which are painted lanes for four of the arms. Such lanes can lead to poor positioning when mixed with traffic and they draw cyclists into the near side blind spots of large vehicles. The general layout of the junction as designed will be difficult for many people cycling to negotiate and it has predictable collision risk associated with it. For example, the ahead movement from Dawson Lane East to Amherst Road West has two left hooks especially as this from the near side mandatory cycle lanes and without any marginal benefit from early release. Right turns will also be awkward, intimidating and risky especially from Dawson Lane West and Amherst Road West which will require people to cycle into right turning lanes. The bus gate provides limited respite in terms of general traffic flow and risk exposure for people cycling but that only operates 12 out of 24 hours. Finally, the design layout is geometrically unrestricting with driver speeds. To be honest, Chair, this is the kind of layout that we were designing 20 years ago. It will leave conditions that have some people choosing to cycle on the footway which creates subjective and subjective safety issues for people walking, wheeling and it will put pressure on other streets for cycling such as the narrow way as people avoid Embry Circus. Appendix D of this committee's papers provides some design and layouts and modeling undertaken by steer including a cyclops junction known as option B although we don't know to what level of detail this was developed. Section 3 of the key decision report sets out the alternative options considered and rejected and it fails to mention option B which would provide significantly more protection than the preferred option. In busy traffic situations such as Embry Circus, international and national best practice would demand that cycling is protected. Such arrangements are common across the world and increasingly across the UK. London has circulating cycle stage junctions which protect people cycling and the closest in Walden Forest just two and a half kilometres away from this particular site. As well as taking note of my comments I also recommend that the councillors read the stage one road safety audit for the project which I'm sure has been undertaken as the issues I raise will surely have been noted there too. The location demands a solution which separates cycle traffic from motor traffic maintains a clear walking wheeling space and which will enable the fullest range of people to cycle for years to come. Thank you Chair. Thank you very much. There will obviously be an opportunity for people to ask you questions. Yes, next speaker introduce yourself and your organisation. Thank you. Hi, my name is Garmin Upgarth I'm the coordinator of Hackney Cycling Campaign. How long do I have please? You've got up to four minutes and the remaining time for this start. Thank you, thank you Chair. So Hackney Cycling Campaign have been around for about four decades. We have never campaigned this hard on any particular scheme since I've been a member and since anyone I know has been a member. The importance of the scheme and just how far below standard that it falls make our campaigning. That is why we have campaigned so hard on this and that is why we will continue to campaign on it and regardless of what happens today push for the best and safest design. All we are asking is for Hackney to take an independent assessment to request an independent assessment from Active Travel England and to implement that. We're not asking you to be the expert it's about asking the national expert and following the national guidance. So when there is an alternative design available how can the council justify spending millions on a junction that doesn't even attempt to achieve Vision Zero? Where the council's JAT scores the junction assessment tool scores and why are they not considered as part of the decision making? Do the 1,500 cyclists who cycle through the junction at the minute today do they not deserve safety features that are the best in class rather than ones that the Department for Transport have labelled as inadequate? Why would the council implement a scheme that the Hackney that a Hackney cycling instructor says is not safe for children? Why are the council removing a pedestrian crossing that has been highlighted as a major risk in the road traffic assessment and that is being removed? You will hear later I'm sure that the alternatives that the council's proposed scheme is better for pedestrians it removes a crossing along a three lane road 15 cyclists have been injured on this junction in the last seven years we've heard from one of them tonight what will the council's defence be when the next next cyclist is inevitably injured here? We know that there is a better safer design available on the piece of paper that was handed out 25% as a Jack score that is if you had a current junction with that kind of score it should be top priority to remove it to redesign it there is a design available which is completely safe 95% every movement being safe what the council proposing will not have any impact on the movement that Claudia had that will happen again to somebody else at some point there is a better design available and I'll just finish with a quote from Chris Boardman who is the National Active Travel Commissioner if you build the old way you kill 10% more people than doing nothing the council's design many of those interventions they're putting in that is the old way and you get no increase in cycling levels because it doesn't make people feel safe if you build to national guidance LTN 120 properly and continuously i.e. the Vision Zero compliant design that we have presented you get between a 20 and 50% increase in cycling and you halve the number of deaths at some point that is likely to come back in court you actually knew that this was the case and you went ahead and built it substandard end of quote that is a decision and we are merely asking that the council request an independent assessment from the national expert on design thank you thank you very much and obviously if you remain because i'm sure there'll be questions and discussion later so i'll now ask Andrew from the national federation of the blind UK to speak on behalf of residents who are blind in hackney welcome to the meeting Andrew thank you very much for taking the trouble to attend this evening and let me know if you have need any assistance in accessing your equipment the audio equipment good evening my name is Andrew Hodgson i have been blind from birth with no usable sight since i was 18 i was trained at school to get around using a long cane and long white cane and moved to london when i was 25 and have been getting around independently particularly in west london for the past 44 years i joined the national federation of the blind UK NFB UK in 2011 and was president from 2016 to 2023 and i still remain a member of our executive council we are a campaigning organisation of blind deafblind and partially sighted people and have in recent years particularly concentrated on issues protecting the rights of our members to get around independently and if the UK is supportive of the council's Pembry junction proposals insofar as they keep cyclists and all of and all sorts of legal and illegal e-micro mobility vehicles like e-bikes off the pavement blind people don't want to see cyclists routed onto and through the pavement they want the pavement to remain a safe space to walk blind people can and do travel independently but they cannot hear or see cyclists nor can they deal with the chaos of often which is often associated with cycle lanes routed through the pavement the proposals of acne cycling would mean a chaotic confusing and disorienting environment for blind deaf blind and partially sighted people we understand that the scheme has a two-way cycle lane across the pavement we are also aware many cyclists and micro mobility users ride the wrong way on a one-way cycle lane making them for all intents and purposes a two-way route for them to use at will the proposed layout also means cyclists will not remain the cycle lane and will cut the corners off on the junctions and ride across the pavements in both directions the proposed scheme from acne cycling has an overload of tactile paving with 32 sets of tactile paving whereas the proposed council scheme only has 12 sets which is much simpler and easier to understand when using a white cane or a guide dog it is essential to keep tactile paving to a minimum and it is laid if it is laid correctly to ensure blind people can use it effectively to get around and from pedestrian crossings and to stop them walking into the road and into danger blind people using white canes and their guide dogs wouldn't be able to detect the cycle lane unless it had at least a 60 millimetre curb with higher curbs preferred with rock curbs to allow wheelchair access and off the pavement there is a grave danger that they and their guide dogs will likely walk into the bike lane however having this curbing running through the pavement separating the bike lane from the main crossing is confusing and disorienting to a blind person when trying to navigate this area independently there will be a sensory overload of curbing and tactile information which is too much when we already have to concentrate hard on keeping ourselves and our guide dogs safe using this area independently if they find the crossing they would not be able to cross and because cycles would be would be riding both ways at speed and would know and we know from our studies of cycling behavior that most won't stop green man pedestrian crossings have all the accessibility features like push button and rotating cones to tell a blind person when it is their turn to cross allowing cycles to bypass these features is not acceptable as the bikes e-bikes e-scooters and e-cargo bikes are traffic and they also need to be part of the green man pedestrian crossing phase it is likely that blind people would not be able to use the area at all and would become further isolated in their home they could not get to the nearby stations hackney central town center or local bus stops which is opposite to what this scheme should be doing one of the biggest problems that blind people have is that because of the deterioration in the urban environment they are increasingly unlikely to venture from their homes this leads to increasing isolation causing damage to mental health and fitness with obesity becoming more and more a problem i have visited the lee bridge roundabout which has recently changed to include cycle lanes which bypass the green man pedestrian crossing phase making it very confusing unsafe and difficult to navigate independently the nfb uk objected to the design and our concerns were not were ignored however the resulting layout is not is now unsafe and unusable by blind people and we feel that our access needs are being ignored when in fact they should be at the top of the road users hierarchy but they are in reality at the bottom and it is being made worse as we are being designed out of using urban areas due to our road layouts which ignore safety and accessibility needs I have visited Waltham Forest where these junctions have been used and found them unfit for purpose they have not been built with the access needs of blind deaf blind and visually impaired people in mind instead of more being planned they should be looking to remove them where they can have them put in giving blind people an environment which is simpler safer and easier to independently get around thank you thank you thank you very much Andrew for your presentation and I hope you'll be able to stay around if there's any questions thank you I'll now move on to our final residence speaker Vincent Stokes please can you introduce yourself you have up to five minutes good evening members and thank you for allowing me to speak I'm a resident of Hackney and member of the council's Hackney Central community panel I represented Hackney Central between 2002 and 22 and I know the history of this proposal I'm here to support the council's approach welcome to Hackney where more people cycle to work than drive and has a greater modal share for cycling than any other London borough by a long way Hackney had the best cycle safety record any London borough in 2023 with a lower rate of killed and serious cyclist injury per journey of any London borough this was reported by the Healthy Street scorecard people of which London cycling is party too much is made of the tragic cyclist fatalities last year but nothing is said about the previous five years with zero fatalities the closure of Amherst Road at its junction with Mayer Street started as a bus priority scheme in 2004 this was never pursued because things were more challenging then but it was always clear that simplifying traffic movement between Pembury Junction and Morning Lane one could dramatically improve the look and the feel of Hackney Central and improve the operation and safety of all three junctions I take credit for keeping this on the agenda we would not be talking about it tonight had I not done so but thanks to Mayor Pipe Glanville and now Woodley for sticking with it this decision took political courage and will be a huge enhancement for Hackney and Central the idea was to reduce the volume of traffic improve bus performance take out the pedestrian islands reduce the number of lanes and close down the area of tarmac this would reduce the number of crossings and distances and slow motor traffic through a tighter junction area there are many policies one could quote and we've heard a few this evening but it's actually the Hackney Central area action plan is the most pertinent the plan is and was to improve the Pembury Junction as a gateway to Hackney Central and it to quote to recognise the importance of pedestrian movement massive pedestrian movement through enhanced pedestrian crossings there has never been any proposal to introduce bike lanes onto a widened footway the proposal has been through TFL scrutiny it was part of an approved bid a couple of years ago to their liveable neighbourhoods fund I want to challenge the notion that there is nothing in the council designed for cycling and cyclists removing traffic volume by 35% will mean fewer collisions the proposal does that we're restricting general traffic from the Amherst Road East a third of the area of the junction will become footway area the alignment will slow motor traffic through the junction cyclists will be safer an unrecognised and key safety issue is that all road layouts should be intuitive and self explaining the layout is simple and understandable all users will be far clearer as to where they should be on the road contrast that with the confusion and chaos hackney cycling proposals with cycles and other micromobility travelling at speed in both directions through the newly created footway most not stopping at zebras are leaving the track at will it will be impossible for blind people to navigate and a nightmare for everyone else can I finally critique the detail of the hackney cycling design the council has 12 areas of tactile paving 5 signalised crossings the hackney cycling design has 35 tactiles and 11 uncontrolled zebra crossings cyclists cannot possibly turn at 90 degrees which they're asked to do at any speed two of the turns require cycles to turn at 135 degrees cyclists would inevitably and do leave the track to take corners in Waltham Forest either merging into the carriageway or the pavement at will merging onto the carriageway is a no safety risk they will cycle at speeds at 20 miles an hour 60% will not stop we know this because TfL has measured these speeds and yielding on bus stop bypasses there will be all manner of illegal and illegal micrability using these lanes a footway in two directions cyclists will race around the lights to get across at the same green signal as pedestrians many will either stick to the carriageway or merge on and off it we know this every day at Blackhorse Road at Pembry there would be many more cyclists doing this pedestrians will not stick to the footway there's too many of them cyclists will swerve around them not give away blind people cannot see cycles nor do they flinch they take out stop you've just got 30 seconds in summary the council's approach is a good one the solution to cyclist safety is not to run cycles through the footway I hope you will support it Andrew travelled on his own this evening to Acne Central he travels to Westminster on his own to lobby MPs and he goes to the London Assembly Group on his own to Royal Victoria but he cannot get to his own highway because of his own high street because of some of these active travel schemes I'd urge you to support the council's design as a good one thank you so we're now going to move on to the presentation by the London Borough Hackney delegated officer I don't know what order you want to speak in but you have up to 20 minutes between you thank you and can you please introduce yourselves before speaking thank you very much that's it okay thank you very much good evening I'm Tyler Linton I'm the assistant director for street scene I'm responsible for the key decision that was taken last month regarding this scheme first of all I'd like to say thank you very much for the opportunity to discuss this it is an important topic and it's something that clearly there's a wide variety of interest in I'd also like to thank the stakeholders who've given us your time tonight as volunteers we're all working towards the same thing to improve the streets of Hackney and I appreciate that it's a privilege to work in Hackney with such dedicated stakeholders I also want to acknowledge our guests who are here who've directly experienced the awful impact of road traffic collisions I can't imagine the devastating impact this has had on you and the council and myself do not accept that road casualties are acceptable or unavoidable and we are committed to vision zero to eliminate road deaths and serious injuries in 2041 this will take sustained multidisciplinary work but I want to assure you that we're committed to this I also want to assure you that when we talk about casualties these are not statistics to us each casualty is an individual and it's something that we never lose sight of I've read through each of the casualty reports of this location for everyone who's been hurt I know their age their gender time of day and I always imagine them as a person traveling through this space when I'm reading those reports we are working to make Hackney's road safer I appreciate that there's difference in opinion in the room about how best to go about that I must stress that our proposals for Pembroke Circus are transformative and they will make it safer for cyclists and pedestrians than it currently is we know there's a strong and often differing views on any highway scheme and in particular on this one developing proposals is a balancing act we have to weigh up different considerations and needs based on technical data professional judgment several different guidelines not just the ones that I wrote tonight there's a huge number of technical guidelines some statutory some advisory and most importantly informed by public engagement and what I want to talk about tonight is the process that we've gone through to arrive at the proposals that we've put forward I have the same quote from Chris Boardman I think it's on YouTube so it's available to anyone what he actually said was stuff done the old way which is a white line 75 centimeters out from the pavement and can't do junctions this is not at all what we're proposing I agree that a paint only proposal such as that is not appropriate as a reminder what we're proposing is to reduce motor traffic our estimates 35% of the junction reallocate a quarter of the carriageway space away from motor vehicles that means slowing traffic down because the junctions will be tighter and guide them more predictably through the junctions every arm of the junction is narrower the carriageway space is narrower more pavement space and narrower roads means that we can remove islands pedestrian islands simplifying crossings for pedestrians and also making the space more simple and intuitive to use there's fundamental changes to the signal arrangements with an all green phase for cyclists there's a number of changes it's illustrated in the decision report by the number of traffic orders that are put forward there's 14 different these are fundamental changes to the space this is not what Chris Bordman was talking about with 75 centimeters of white line to arrive at this proposal we followed a robust and open process not just in terms of technical assessments and quality assurance but also crucially public engagement and listening it's been informed through multi-stage public engagement starting in 2019 and includes a details comm communications and engagement strategy when there's clearly disagreement about the nature of a design it is imperative that the council speaks to as many people and listens to as many people to inform inform the work those are worth just taking a step back and looking at the decision itself the decision is actually to proceed to the statutory process of advertising that necessary traffic orders the decision leads to another stage of consultation this is a formal statutory process that's set by the local authority traffic order regulations 1996 sets out what we need to do at the next stage and just to summarize what that is we need to put a certain number of advertising in a local newspaper we need to put up street notices and we need to directly engage with statutory consultees such as emergency services other local authorities TFL and such organizations if any representing persons likely to be affected by any provision in the order and we have by custom and practice used that to include hackney cycling campaigns and statutory consultee what this means for this meeting is that while I view the proposals put forward in the decision are the ones that align most closely with what we're trying to achieve in relation to the particular junction next step is to proceed statutory consultation through that process and by considering any further objections and information received only then will I be able to come to a final conclusion to the traffic management orders so there's another step in the process at which time I can consider new information that is supplied in the form of representation that I did not have at the time of the previous decision to ensure fairness the second point this is very important to ensure fairness openness and transparency of this process other individuals and stakeholders will have an expectation of what this process entails and process is designed both our own approach as well as through the statutory process to provide open and equal access to make a representation and be heard in short we have an obligation to provide an opportunity for anyone to comment on the proposals this builds on the work that we've already done and taking the circumstances for the call-in in order I think we can go into that in a little bit more detail the first circumstance the call-in was around openness aims and desired outcomes as noted in the monitoring officers report this decision is part of a series of other decisions linked cabinet decisions not only have we followed an open and transparent process but we set out in public what that process was going to be before we went and did it in April 2023 cabinet adopted the town centre strategy which had already been informed by extensive consultation engagement and this decision also accepted the money for the leveling up fund which this scheme is part of subsequently in December 2023 cabinet made another decision this is in the public and this clearly sets out the next steps for developing the scheme further the cabinet decision approved to conduct further non-statutory consultation which we've done to implement the proposals subject to further non-statutory consultation and to proceed to statutory consultation which is the stage we're at now only following the relevant statutory consultation with all objections responses received to be considered recorded in writing and signed by the decision maker the cabinet decision contained a 10-point consultation and communication plan it called appendix C I won't go into detail there's some of that in the key decision report in section 8 but just as a highlight we had over a thousand people respond to an online survey we held 10 in-person events we structured our engagement with stakeholders and community groups we knocked on every door of the businesses in the area and we launched a comprehensive communications campaign that saw over 100,000 people reach through various channels social media old-fashioned media letters to the post I was in this very room in July speaking to the Skills, Economy and Growth Scrutiny Commission about this very point about best practice principles consulting on traffic schemes and that in that meeting there was a number of lessons learned and we've delivered our consultation engagement approach to this scheme in line with what was discussed in that meeting and just briefly in relation to the aims and desired outcomes because of the previous decisions there's a very clear public record of what the aims and objectives of this scheme were and I won't go into it but looking back through those public decisions and public documents we have been consistent throughout with the aims of the scheme I just want to touch on circumstance too to talk about the decision maker not acting in accordance with the council's policy framework I think in this context in this room the most important policy in relation to this is the Hackney Transport Strategy forms part of the core policy framework of the council there are others and this proposal is consistent with the town centre strategy the local plan LP33 local implementation plans the air quality action plan the mayor of London's transport strategy and climate action plan but from Hackney's transport strategy in the first substantial section of that strategy after it introduces policy context and how the document itself is structured is a movement hierarchy it's labelled as figure two in a document and the text is as a general principle the council will apply the following movement hierarchy when considering sometimes competing demands for our streets it then illustrates a hierarchy with to consider first at the top pedestrians including those with mobility and vision impairments then it goes on cyclists is next public transport users and so on this is council policy adopted by full council 2015 on the third circumstance in terms of relevant evidence and decision making there's clearly a difference of opinion in the room but professional judgment the weight to give different tools and different guidance we need to consider guidance in the whole and we need to consider different guidances local transport note 120 which is department for transport's most current guidance on cycling refers to other guidances in itself it also contains a chapter on planning for cycling and it puts into context much of what's in that document as part of a wider process in the life cycle of planning a cycling network it's only right to look at that document that guidance in its whole form as well as in the context of other documents but fundamentally we started this project before that note was published we've been looking at Pembry Circus for a long time but this project in earnest started with a livable neighborhoods bid in 2018 it was Transport for London funded before the pandemic and that came with its own project management framework and project assurance framework it's Transport for London's Livable Neighborhoods Gateway framework and we quite clearly told the Department for Leveling Up as it was at the time that we were going to continue to use that framework for our quality assurance we've published at the point of the cabinet decision last December we published all of the Gateway 2 submission that we had prepared up to that point so not only have we been using another organization's structured quality assurance pathway but we also published all of the documentation in the interest of openness we have our own project assurance framework and we're clearly not going to have time to go through it it's got 173 steps and it links to 92 different relevant guidance documents but if there's a question about whether or not I've considered the evidence put forward by stakeholders I certainly did we met with the hackycycling campaign in the winter they put forward their view that there should be protected separated cycle lanes at this junction and we went away and asked consultants to draw up a scheme that met that brief we considered it we conducted a multi-criteria assessment with different independent evaluators some from the consultancy some from different departments within the council that have different points of view and on balance of factors investor and priority and placemaking being some of them I decided to proceed with a simpler pedestrian focused design subsequently the HCC produced their own alternative design in July I considered that as well and I sent a comprehensive email back to them as well as having a meeting before making a decision and following up on the meeting with an email and we can't go into the details of that that email exchange would take up more time than I have but it's just to put guidance and tools like the junction assessment tool and local transport note 120 in the context of wider considerations that we need to balance it's a balancing exercise there are other voices other tools other approaches as well as commissioning design built on similar principles to what was put forward in the consultation we also looked at safety records of other junctions of this type CCS junctions the junctions came from Agnesython Campaign to look at but it's a truth in highways planning that we are aiming towards vision zero but currently even with a CCS design a circulating cycle stage design every one of the junctions that we looked at had casualties serious casualties so it is not the case that there is a template design that has a perfect safety record that can be placed on top of this junction I think that's really important it is we have to weigh up a lot of different evidence Task Force London's local note 120 has been mentioned a few times there's some really important parts of that that I just want to read out in the core design principles section 1.5.4 this is basically page one of the substantial part of the document infrastructure must be accessible to all and the needs of vulnerable pedestrians and local people must be considered early in the process to ensure schemes to support locally in the long term the Equality Act 2010 requires public sector authorities to comply with public sector equality duty that is fundamental and that is one of the main things that we have to keep at the top of our mind I mentioned that we've been engaging with the public since 2019 I've mentioned that we've tried to address the voices of residents in the designs the top three asks from the engagement where air quality provisions for public and green spaces and improvements for walk-in connectivity the design not only delivers on these core asks for the local community but it also does improve cycling safety it's a bread and butter design that simplifies the junction reduces traffic building on this we've done extensive further consultation I think I've set out the process over a long period of time and how robust and open we've been with the process but it is true there's different viewpoints there's different opinions hello can people online hear me through my laptop yes thank you yes yes yes we're pausing the meeting for around five minutes to try and resolve the technical issues so if anyone wants to take a cup of a break now is your opportunity thank you hello it looks like we're able to restart thank you very much everybody for your patience I'm just checking if people online can hear me yes fantastic yes thank you councillor gordon yes we can so I think just before we had this technical interlude I think Tyler was just concluding his remarks I don't know whether you briefly want to go over your conclusions again and then councillor young I'm afraid I'm going to have to ask you to repeat your remarks so that everyone online can participate chair do we know at what point it was paused or should should I estimate the last minute I'm afraid I don't have an exact note of it I think it was literally just summing up really just maybe try and recreate that apologize it's repetitive I think I'll start from where we were looking at the core design principles in local transport note 120 in the first section of this DFT note it has a series of core design principles and section 1.5.4 states very clearly that infrastructure must be accessible to all and the needs of vulnerable pedestrians and local people must be considered early in the process to ensure schemes are supported locally in the long term the Equality Act 2010 requires public sector authorities to comply with the public sector duty in carrying out these functions so in doing in weighing up the different elements the different advice the different tools the different guidance in making a decision about the scheme we must consider accessibility we must consider the needs of vulnerable pedestrians and we must inform our judgment through consideration of protected characteristics and our duty under the Equality Act I agree that paint on its own is not good enough and that's why we're transforming the junction the top three asks from our engagement with the public were improvements to air quality provisions for public and green spaces and improvements to walking and connectivity the proposal we've put forward not only delivers on these three core asks from the local community but also on improving cycling safety this scheme has been developed through a robust process involving the wider community and although I understand there are different views which have been put forward tonight I think this only serves to underline the complex nature of the decision making when these views are held so strong by different groups whatever the outcome of the panel's decision tonight I trust that it takes the same wider viewpoint and recognizes the voices of all those that have contributed to this process and can see the shared ambition of this project and what it can deliver for the residents of Hackney thank you thank you very much China I now call on Councillor Sarah Young to repeat her remarks as much as she can thank you I'm going to go about four points to make so hopefully we'll be able to move on fairly quickly I wanted to look at this in the wider context of Hackney's approach to cycling and active travel and active travel is a bit of a techie term so what I think what that means is walking cycling wheeling buggies wheeling wheelchairs wheeling children's scooters all of these different methods of travel and I should have said at the beginning I'm a keen cyclist a member of LCC and an almost lifelong cyclist who watches with my breath held when my children adult children cycle around Penbury Circus very aware that we want to make improvements there so the wider cycling context I think is really important Hackney has a transport strategy that runs from 2015 to 2025 so we're nearly at the end of that strategy and that marked a really significant change in the way that we look at cycling and deliver cycling routes in Hackney so it moved from quite a piecemeal approach to a strategic approach where we deliver cycling routes looking at the whole borough and the way that they link up and I think that's really important when you're looking at Penbury Circus you're looking at it also in the context of all of the other safer cycle routes around it and since that point when we launched the transport strategy we've built over six kilometres of segregated cycle lanes and we are still building segregated cycle lanes so I think one's going in right now as we speak and we've built 45 kilometres of low traffic roads in low traffic neighbourhoods so we are really keen as a council to create safer more pleasant neighbourhoods for people to travel in whichever way that they are travelling out of their cars this project has gone through lots of layers of scrutiny so there's all the scrutiny within the council but it's also gone through the Transport for London gateway and other independent assessments I know there's been talk about active travel England's assessment this has already gone through several independent assessments which are really quite stringent in looking at all of the aspects of transport design so yes cycling and yes cycling safety and yes pedestrian safety and accessibility for people with disabilities but also how that area is to travel both through and around and within so it's not just about getting through it as quickly as possible and efficiently and safely it's also what's it like to travel within that junction and it has we've had very thorough feedback from all of those assessments and all of that feedback is being taken into account so I think this is not a project where there's one alternative and another alternative that are pitted against each other it's a process and it's gone through quite a lengthy process and the last thing I wanted to make two more things one is just the amount of engagement has been really fantastic in this project so it's really impressive to see that there were over a thousand consultation individual consultation responses as well as a really large number of individual stakeholder groups engaged and provided responses so that's great because it means the amount of evidence that the team have had to look at and take into account has been really broad and across a very wide spectrum from the tenants and residents associations on and around Pembry estate locally who can really talk about what it's like to live right on top of this junction to those who want to travel through it so there's a lot of different opinions and needs and interests being taken into account there and lastly just that this is another stage in the process so we are at the stage where you are scrutinizing this draft decision and then after that if it passes this stage there is a statutory consultation so at that point there'll be more opportunity for hopefully an even wider range of people to feed in and for those those views and that evidence and those opinions to be taken on board so this is not the end of the process this is a stage in a process which hopefully will end up with a very very broad a really really good and thorough solution and just at the end just to come right back to you almost where we started I think I started off by saying thank you to Claudia for attending tonight and I just wanted really to repeat that certainly in my mind when we're looking at this is always those people who have suffered not just at this junction but at other junctions as well and how we can avoid that in future thank you thank you very much everyone for their contributions I think it's been really helpful to hear all these different views and we're now moving on to discussion phase which is timetable to last up to 30 minutes and it's going to start with questions from scrutiny panel we are very keen to make sure that all relevant points are covered in this discussion I'm going to start with some questions for the officers but just before that I just want to say that I think I'm speaking for every member of scrutiny panel I think we all acknowledge that the current situation in Pembury Circus is a very dangerous one for cyclists and other road users and I don't think that's something that we need to be persuaded of or is contested I'm looking for any dissent among other panel members and I'm not seeing any at the moment so I'm you know as far as I can making that a finding of tonight so just to so my questions are sort of building on contributions for officers we're now moving into if you know if this decision goes ahead tonight and obviously I'm not preempting any decision there'll be sort of full discussion once we've heard every you know opinions are all sides if this decision goes ahead it's going into a statutory consultation period and I just really want to sort of play back my understanding of that and you know hear a little bit more about how that's going to work so I think I've heard very clearly that that's going to be an opportunity for these designs to be you know potentially fed into and altered I'd really like a sort of response to that if that is something that emerges from the consultation process you know obviously you know sort of an appropriate way so the second question I had is that you have referenced a number of assessments of the safety of the existing Hackney designs can you please tell us where they can be accessed and how we can you know assess them because I don't think they've formed part of the papers we've had this evening we've obviously heard an awful lot of concern from the calling counsellors and also from the residents supporting them in relation to safety assessment and there's been reference you know in relation to Pacific as I understand it well-known safety tools naming the junction assessment tool and the CLOS I'm afraid I've forgotten what acronym that's for is there any possibility of assessing that further and you know these schemes in relation to those assessment tools and publishing those results and I think the you know in parallel with the consultation process and I think the I mean the other assessment and again this is something that's a very strong ask from the residents in relation to the ATE assessment so yeah so my questions really are in relation to and also once the consultation process has been concluded who is going to be the final decision maker and what timelines are we looking at because obviously one of the points that's been made through this process was some confusion about the level of decision making so I happy to repeat those questions then I'll go on to other members thank you thank you as I understand the questions about the next stage statutory consultation as I mentioned in my presentation the process is dictated by local authority traffic order making regulations 1996 so it's set out in regulations it involves notifying statutory notice newspaper the general public as well as statutory consultees there's a set minimum amount of time that we have to advertise proposal and then the timeline following that cutoff point for representations largely is determined by the level of representations we receive we have to consider everyone that comes in and we have to record a consideration of that in writing in a separate decision that decision is usually myself as the council's traffic network manager I believe is the title in legislation I always get it wrong we have an operational network manager and then a network manager so that short process decision making is usually to me but in this case it was explicitly reinforced in the December 2023 decision to be made under my delegated authority I'm not sure I heard you saying how long it is the minimum period 21 days 21 days sorry the reason for the hesitation that sounds quite short to me I hope you'll give consideration to it being longer and my second question it is 21 days minimum yeah was in relation to additional safety tests I mean particularly those that have been referenced by the and publishing the you know the results of the comprehensive safety tests that you've undertaken we're happy to publish everything we've got it's all on the public record if available as I mentioned in my presentation before the cabinet decision in 2023 we published the entire gateway suite of documents at the time I think if you follow links through the papers that is there but that's obviously 11 months ago right okay sorry yeah so that's fine we I think we've shared already the road safety audits and we'd share all of our other documentation publicly additional safety tests as raised by the residents and I'll let other members in particularly the ones that have been referenced by the residents JAT and the CLOS one the AT tests the cycling level of service the junction assessment tool there is no reason why we couldn't conduct these tests at this stage there are a number of tools to use and the decision of which tools to use is influenced by what the original aims and objectives of the scheme are there might be others who would ask us to do an accessibility audit there might be others who ask us to use the City of London street accessibility tool there might be others who ask us to use healthy streets designer check which we have done as a baseline so at some point myself as a decision maker has to decide on which tools are appropriate for each job but those tools in particular aren't particularly onerous and there's no reason why we couldn't do that at that stage thank you I'll now move on to questions I saw Councillor Hayhurst first and then Councillor Vinnie Leather thanks Tyler I mean to try and summarise this as I understand it you're saying the Hackney council design better achieves the Hackney council aims and objectives than the alternatives including the one put forward advance tonight can you just give us five bullet points preferably in order but not necessarily as to why the Hackney council scheme is better than the alternative we are being presented with tonight so can you just list us the five key points as to why you say the council scheme is better thank you first of all it's simpler I think the point was made about the simplicity of design this is a core design principle roads should be intuitive it's greener there's more trees a lot more trees there's more sustainable urban drainage we haven't talked about climate action plan or the climate agenda but that is that is policy that I need to consider when making a decision there is a lot more space for pedestrians for moving around there are a lot of pedestrians that we want to use this space Hackney Down station is nearby and is a key link we haven't talked about the fact that at Hackney Down station we're getting new lifts network rail are investing in Hackney Down station it will open people's horizons travel horizons and we want to make sure that people can get there in the best way possible just building on simplicity it is much simpler for pedestrians the pedestrian environment is much clearer in our design there's also it is a town center scheme it's been described as a town center scheme in all of the documents in the funding bid and that means that we are trying to attract footfall to the area we want to create space for cultural and civic use and and by creating a place a city place we have the opportunity to do that transport for London have a very useful road typology there's nine squares and there's two considerations place function and movement function and what we're trying to do our aims and objectives are to create a space that has more place function than movement function doesn't mean that we ignore the movement function but that's where on that sort of balance balancing exercise where the council has stated its aims and objectives yes follow-up councillor hayhurst is there an issue I did see in the reports in terms of reference to side mobs is there an issue in terms of vehicle mobility being more streamlined with the council design over the cycling design or not is that a factor like blobs and ccs are two variations of a similar umbrella concept the umbrella concept being cycle tracks are circulated around a junction so that they go at the same time as pedestrians or in some variation of going at the same time as pedestrians we asked consultants to design what they thought and what we thought would be the best version of that type of design we called it a cyclops design cyclops just is cycle optimized signals CCS is circulating cycle design there are differences I don't want to minimize those differences but fundamentally we have considered an option that puts cycles off the carriageway and we did so one of the considerations in putting forward that design would have been around it's not just about motor vehicle capacity a junction a junction gets modeled so that it operates for all users safely and if you have a junction that's way over capacity for motor vehicles it becomes unsafe for other users but that's not the overarching consideration between the two designs and I think councilor young put it very well it actually isn't a decision between two designs it's a decision between a huge number of designs we've considered well over 30 different designs it's a process so it's a sort of false dichotomy in a way thank you yeah my main question is really about the alignment with the council's policy framework but I just wanted to reflect on some points that you've just made around it being a place making activity first and less focus on people moving through the area and more about people want to stay part of the area obviously this is a junction which is very important for people to move through and we have identified that it is incredibly dangerous currently and I think that this is a bit of a problem with the fact that the consultation lumped together the junction and the Amherst Road kind of plans because the difference there I think is quite stark and obviously the people who are cycling spend time in Hackney Central and Town Centre and use the train station so I think that's kind of a false dichotomy in itself and you were also mentioning around vision zero elements not being as prevalent here because there is no perfect result and I think this is very important for us to think about are we making perfect the enemy of the good and I think from a cycling point of view it does look like there's a vision zero design here which is good if not perfect it seems to have a very high score by this metric at least but my main question is around the policy framework and line with council strategy so within the Hackney Transport Strategy one of the design principles cycling infrastructure area there's 7.2 and 7.7 7.2 says creating a quality environment for cycling is generally recognised as providing accessible direct and convenient attractive safe and comfortable routes for experienced and less experienced cyclists alike this would link and provide access to key destinations such as the borough's town centres and other destinations for employment education and leisure and 7.7 says in addition to continuing to implement the above mentioned initiatives the council will look to add to the quality of its cycle network and infrastructure primarily through the following methods why the transport seems including bus lanes bus priority measures on key borough roads and fully and partially segregated cycle lanes on busier roads and obviously this is very much a busier road I guess my question is how much was that considered as a part of it and although it's not part of the council's framework the Hackney council's guidance on the main roads technical note 2023 to 2026 was saying that if it's not impossible then that kind of segregated cycling should be included so I just want to know if both of those have been really considered as part of this irregardless of the fact that it's a town making space and the sort of consultation responses as well thank you thank you yes and I think the answer is yes it has been considered and it points to the broader challenge of designing for a transport network a transport system it is not a series of well it is a series of schemes but we don't look at it when we set a transport strategy that sets the vision for the borough when we talk about creating cycle routes we talk about creating direct coherent connected demand led cycle routes through the borough and I'm really proud of what we've done since 2015 because we have a map in the office of what we said we would do in 2015 and 2018 and 2019 and we've delivered on those strategic cycle routes so we're in the process of completing the Dalston to Lee Bridge cycle route and that's got segregated cycling along the route you know what used to be called quiet way 2 and is now called quiet C27 we've completed that in this time we've we're building cycle segregated cycle lanes on Queensbridge Road right now we've done green lanes we have plans for Seven Sisters Road so that that point is really important but that really is taking a network view and it doesn't it doesn't suggest that the same solution is appropriate for every location we still have to apply judgment and local circumstances to local schemes yeah the main road strategy it actually you've pulled out a general point around cycle tracks on main roads for the purpose of this meeting this is a bit bureaucratic but for the purpose of this meeting that note is a technical note that hasn't been through scrutiny it hasn't been adopted by cabinet it hasn't been adopted by full council but on that point anyways there is a general point in there yes that the ambition is a presumption towards cycle tracks on busy roads there is also three or four specific mentions of Pembry Junction the author of that note clearly is thinking about Pembry Junction and it talks about placemaking and it talks about reducing traffic talks about cleaner air more trees doesn't talk about separated cycle lanes so I would normally say in a policy document if there's both a general statement and a specific statement the intention is the specific statement but I just want to correct something I didn't say that we have less of a consideration of safety at this location we have looked at the safety records of different types of junctions and if we are to look at LTN 120 and if we are to look at the details of the junction assessment tool it is not an objective safety measure it is a tool that designers have that actually indicates if you look in the scoring the scoring is about who would feel comfortable using the space and it's not a criticism of the tool I think it's a good tool but we do just need to be a little bit careful when we're talking about safety in absolute terms because what we really need to look at is we need to look at the history of other places and how they performed and that's how we can make our conclusions so we're putting forward a design a proposal that is based on other locations that have good safety records that have improvements over time thank you Councillor Algamor did you want to come in or I've got another question you go ahead so I just want to get my head around something so this was done by vision designers isn't it both of them in terms of the markings on them they were conducted by very experienced traffic engineers okay so where it makes reference to risks of collisions does that mean vehicles and bicycles or does that mean vehicles bicycles pedestrians road users it doesn't include motor vehicles so so so where it says where it says minimal risks of collision is that between a cyclist and a pedestrian or is that a vehicle and a cycle it's between it's between vehicles and cycle it's between vehicles and cycles okay yeah because I think we will admit that we have a responsibility in a diverse borough such as Hackney to ensure that we have kind of respect equality and equity in terms of those using the roads in terms of the roads and also the pavements but what I'm kind of struggling with is as you've just mentioned in terms of risk of collisions it's only taken into consideration vehicles and bicycles what about pedestrians because from the Vision Zero design it would appear that there will be a risk of collisions with pedestrians so the way this has been marked does not seem correct so if I could get some clarity on that that would be helpful please yeah maybe I can assist here I didn't do any assessments or any of the designs on this so junction assessment tool is designed to be a general check there's five principles safety comfort tractors and so on and it's a check and when you're looking at it there's lots of different things going on you look at each movement that's possible through the junction from a cycling perspective so for example if you cannot make a turn that scores a zero for that particular score and for this one it's quite a complicated matrix that you'll generate it is possible to it's never been published by to travel in England but there is one which includes pedestrians as well but the bigger risk in terms of people being injured it has been around cyclists versus motor vehicles and that's what's been scored on those two different sheets as you've seen them okay so I appreciate that but with what we've said and what you've just said do you think that it does need to be looked at in terms of the risks of collisions with pedestrians especially given the charity organisation for blind people and the submissions that they've put in regards to this I probably can't speak on behalf of the cycling campaign but I think what we've got here is so in the presentation I gave I gave a critique on the council's preferred scheme as it is the cycling campaign have produced one of a number of different opportunities you could design at this particular junction so I think in terms of my focus it's been I think there's issues and there remains issues with the council's preferred design from a cycling safety position just add a couple of points to that one is the road safety audit that we mentioned before but the big risk that was highlighted of that was the removal of the pedestrian crossing that has not been in the hackney design that has not been addressed at all we address it in our design so that's a major major benefit for pedestrians the other point is to look at stats you know where else has this been done and has it led to significant pedestrian injuries the answer is no but again we go back to what we're asking for is a rapid assessment by the experts who can look into this and give more information why would you not want more information from experts before making the decision so that's you know those are questions that they'll be able to answer as well but why not have that it doesn't cost anything it doesn't take much time you're losing nothing by doing I'll make sure the officers respond to those points in due course so Councillor Sedak and then I've got another question thanks yeah so it seems to me leaving aside the sort of respective merits of the various plans that seems to me that the essence of this calling is about whether or not the council has taken on board the contributions that the cycling campaign have made as part of this process and specifically whether or not they've considered your proposal which goes into some detail so I'd like to hear from officers just about that just about the manner in which you engage with the report and the respective evidence that came with it and how you engage with residents following the submission of that report and also in that sort of context whether the late stage at which the report was produced had any bearing on the manner in which you may have wanted to have engaged thank you thank you Tynar if you could maybe respond to the points as well in relation to pedestrian crossing which I think is a particularly important one as well as answering councillor Seddak's I think that is a very good point we're talking about the pedestrian crossing across what we refer to as Amherst Road West it's the section of Amherst Road west of the junction two-stage junction so if you're crossing it as a pedestrian you have a 50-second wait and then you cross eastbound traffic sorry I'm in my mind I'm going north to south you cross eastbound traffic you wait another 50 seconds and then you cross to the side of the road if you're trying to get to the station you have another two-stage crossing to get to the station what we what we've replaced that with instead is a single stage crossing from that same corner to the corner where the station is so if you're going to the station you have one stage instead of four but if but what if you're going to the south side of Amherst Road west that's the question well we've replaced what was a two-stage crossing with a two-stage crossing so you now cross to the to the point where the station is and then you cross Dalston Lane it's an all green phase for pedestrians so some pedestrians not all probably most but not all pedestrians but some will be able to do that two-stage crossing in one green man phase you can't do that now if you don't do that the signal cycle is 83 seconds so if you if you make a two-stage crossing to that point the whole journey takes 83 seconds the current is a 100 seconds or thereabout so we think that's a fair sort of trade-off pedestrians doing that journey which we recognize is not the main it is an important crossing but it's not the main desire line for pedestrians but we've replaced a two-stage with a two-stage and we've massively enhanced the route from say Pembry Estate to the station and that's a new crossing that wasn't there before so we've sort of moved the previous crossing I'm happy to take the second question yeah it was just about how officers have engaged with the proposal that's come in from the cycling campaign I'm just specifically thinking about well I suppose part of the question that I'm asking is about the way that the safety considerations around cycling have to be as you've said multiple times contextualized within the fact that this is town centre project primarily and so secondary consideration is probably not the right way to put it but hopefully you understand what I'm saying so just within that context and given when it came in I'd just like to understand the level of engagement with HCC and the way in which you engage with the evidence that was provided it thank you I'm sorry that we've come to a deadlock on the issue because we do have a long standing relationship in terms of HCC providing challenge for our schemes and as said in my presentation that's really welcome I think we've met at least three times if not more since January one of the things that I said in this seat in July was that we would have a more structured approach to stakeholder management stakeholder engagement that's what we've been trying to do to make sure that all stakeholders have an opportunity to feed into designs at different stages the stakeholder list of about 100 different stakeholders we obviously can't meet with all of them three or four times I think in the call in there's quite a lot of HCC fundamentally they put forward feedback in January February March in the winter and we took that seriously we went away we commissioned we vested in designing up a version of that feedback and then we considered it in depth we've also just fully taken on board other observations that they've made I think in the key decision report we've listed out all of the feedback that they provided in writing and then as I mentioned we've engaged with the concept that was put forward in February we've also engaged in detail with a version of the design that you're seeing today that was put forward to us in July and that included a meeting between myself and the Hacks I think campaign before I made the decision and followed by email so we have really thoroughly considered the information put forward yeah there's a couple more questions and I was actually going to invite the call in to make a closing statement I don't know whether you could do it as part of that or you want to briefly come back now we are running out of time and that's why you can if you didn't have you really want to you about that is it there so we did meet with with streets in as Tyler said we appreciate the relationship we have with you and with officers however the meeting after the meeting in July when we presented the first draft of the scheme we offered to speak to you to take that forward to take the plans to work on them to take your feedback on board we didn't receive any further communications on that nor did the designer until we really pushed to get a meeting before the decision was made a few days before that took emailing everyone we could think of getting press you know stories in the press pushing as hard as we possibly could in order to have a meeting before the decision was made so yes you did meet us in July after that there was nothing until basically the decision had been made and we did have a meeting which failed to persuade you to change course but the lack of between those two meetings the first one and then the one we really kind of forced your hand on demonstrates that you weren't really looking at the design in detail there's a number of when you talk about the Cyclops design in the decision document there are a number of places where that is described as our design and it is not our design essentially you went away to the consultants you asked the consultants to come up with the cycling scheme they failed they failed you they came back with something that wasn't feasible we showed you told us that the cycling scheme was not feasible there we showed you that it was feasible and after we showed you that it was feasible we had no more communications on that scheme thank thank you I don't want to long to you and far I will allow you briefly to come back on that time then we move on to some other questions just a point of fact I think when you say you you mean street scene I only came back to you in our meeting September and then my email to you I don't remember putting in that email that steer failed on the design I'm quite confident yeah yeah no I didn't say that I considered the option of a design like what was put forward in the feedback for the public in February involving cycle tracks we considered that and then we decided on a number of grounds to favor the council's current proposal we also we were meeting other groups and we have other people to meet and we did I did reply before making a decision so I appreciate that that was six weeks seven weeks after your last meeting with officers but the question was around how have we engaged with you we've met three times engaged by email several times thank you for that exchange it's really helpful I think it's clarified some important points I mean I've got one more question I'm going to bring in councillor Binnie Lovett councillor set up and then I'm afraid we're finished because we do need to move on so I've got one I'm just going to make a really brief statement I mean I think we've all celebrated Hackney's success in cycling and I think it's something that we all can be proud of I mean I would also say that campaigners and members of the public who are passionate about cycling and there are a number of people who have been passionate in relation to this scheme people who genuinely feel safer in certain designs of scheme have taken the trouble to write into the council and I really hope that whatever the outcome of the hearing the proceedings this evening that relationships can be restored and go back to their previous constructive spirit so my final question really is in relation to the funding of this project if the outcome of these evening's proceedings obviously I'm not second guessing anything was to make a recommendation for reconsideration and you know that was a different design including segregated cycle scheme design how would that affect the funding available for this scheme and also the timetable so you could briefly answer that two more questions from members and then we'll go to summing up thank you funding from central government must be spent to a timeline it's currently March 2026 I think that's probably more of a question for the monitoring officer to be honest I think time pressures is one of the reasons why the monitoring officer can reject a call in I think the fact that we're here this evening sufficient reason to think that extra time can be absorbed within the process I we have to flag that it would be a risk but then we don't know what the outcome of the statutory consultation would be we don't know what other representations would be so that process is built into timeline and if it means more work for officers then we'll just do it yeah what I can't do is I can't commit other agencies to a timeline active travel England have a prioritization methodology of how they'll prioritize requests for their assistance so that's something that's out of our control really helpful so council Bini-Lowbrock and then maybe council Sadek who could take those questions together and then we'll yeah so I wanted to draw some attention to the consultation responses it seems like 8.54 people were saying that safety was an issue overwhelmingly identified by participants as unsuitable for pedestrians and cyclists in its current orientation there's board support for moves to reprioritize this for active travel and at 8.58 they preferred segregated cycleways I also think at 8.96 there's a bit of an admission that there is no benefit for children whereas obviously making more segregated cycle lanes would probably improve children's access to cycling and this junction I also kind of don't understand about the desire lines and we've talked about that multiple crossing I still think people are going to want to cross that particular road at that particular point and will do so now without the benefit of any kind of crossing whereas before the issue I think partly was that these islands also had these big barriers that stopped people from permeating them in a logical fashion but it also seems like there's turnings which are now banned and therefore I think that the council's plans to me it says that there's more likelihood of cyclists acting in unpredictable ways going onto the pavement and moving around the junction in ways that are not intended and also in terms of clarity having turns which are no longer allowed and bicycle signage painted on the ground that's going to be as the report says driven over by HGVs I'm not entirely convinced by this clarity point so I'm just wondering if you could say anything around the consultation and how you balance that is it just a question of it doesn't match with the sort of pre-decided strategy for the area points there so I'll let you take them but then we've got quick questions to Councillor Siddharth and Councillor Patrick and we will not at all we don't have pre-imagined responses to consultations but we received over a thousand responses we received over a thousand online and then well over a hundred records of attending a workshop which we tried to capture with notes I think the fact that we put that in the report shows that yeah absolutely people are saying this and there's a diversity of opinion and we put it in the report to be open and transparent about what people are saying about the scheme making a decision to go one way or the other when there's a difference of opinion doesn't mean we're not taking into consideration what they've said as I've said we got that feedback in February through that consultation exercise we went away and we considered in depth what that would look like for the space I'm sorry I've maybe missed the plot in the other questions oh will cyclists use the space in an unpredictable way it's a cheap thing to say that cyclists will cycle on the pavement sorry I'm not saying that you're saying that I'm saying it's a general rule we get a lot of correspondence on it yeah sometimes there's illegal behavior on good infrastructure sometimes it's badly designed infrastructure that leads to more illegal behavior and I can only point to evidence of what happens at similar junctions to this and yeah if we look at a junction like Holborn Circus yeah which was pretty similar junction a bit more motor traffic flows but kind of in the same realm it's an A road going through it's a complicated junction with multiple more than a four point junction in 2014 the City of London does a scheme that's pretty similar to what we're proposing at Pembury builds out the pavements reduces traffic on several of the arms through band turns and other traffic restrictions and they've seen positive safety outcomes I don't know if they measure cycling on the pavement there I'm sure they get as much correspondence as we do but I would in my professional judgment if you design a space to be intuitive direct understandable it makes it easier for people to follow the rules of the road I'll now move on to Katsa Siddak then Katsa Patrick and to the final question this is a question about the pedestrian experience and the feedback from the consultation that you talk about on page 107 and 108 of the agenda back tonight on the safety risk presented to cyclists we've seen statistics and evidence about the risks they face on the pedestrian side it looks like references being made to the consultation responses so to feedback rather than evidence that's obviously very important and I'm not discounting that and shaping the design of the scheme and so on but can you tell us about the evidence that you've looked at from the pedestrian perspective in safety terms Councillor Patrick as well because we do need to move on your question thank you Chair Councillor let's meet up my question can I ask we've heard from Mr Hobbs Hobbs sorry from the Blind Society about the problems the news that put in the cycle lanes in cycle campaign were caused to visually disabled people did you have any other comments from any other disability group about these problems about cycle lanes in this in this new school and what the effect they would say would be on them thank you yeah thanks two questions that fit very well together pedestrians and disability groups yeah take the first one pedestrian conflict is picked up in the road safety audit and interestingly and this is where we get sort of tool clash actually so tool by different tools we use the road safety audit picks up and it's been highlighted in the feedback as well from stakeholders but the road safety audit picks up potential for cycle pedestrian conflict at a bit of cycle track we've put in between Pembury Road and Dalston Lane East that comes out as green on the junction assessment tool for cycles so we have to make a decision between different types of risk it now my view on that particular track is that it's a little bit away from the junction it's a simpler arrangement it's one track we can put in tactiles or other other materials that indicate where that is in a way that hopefully it will consult relevant people hopefully is a workable design for people with visual impairments but the answer to your question is it gets picked up the road safety audit the second question was around other disability groups yes in the key decision I think we have a response for disability backup which is the hackney local hackney disability group and I don't have it in front of me to pick up exactly what they've said but I seem to remember that was generally positive towards the benefits of the scheme discussion point I'm now going to invite the calling councillors to make any final points if you could stick to two or three minutes that would be really welcoming if you haven't been covered Katz are out yes chair I just wanted to ask whether or not our other witnesses might be able to make any kind of summary points I know that Claudia would like to say a couple things in conclusion after having mine in total stick to three minutes if that's possible so who's going to go first yeah thank you so I just wanted to add a couple things so first of all I wanted to stress that this is about the accident that I failed to mention earlier it happened at 2am and I know that the scheme will reduce traffic drastically but when I had my accident there was no traffic whatsoever it was just one car and me so I just wanted to stress that and then obviously I am no one to comment on the technicalities of the scheme I just wanted to add something as someone who nearly lost their life on the junction I appreciate all the sympathy and appreciate the commiseration but I feel I struggle to take it to cycle through the junction and a lot of people that I know will be terrified to cycle through the junction and I wonder what you going to say to the next person who will come here and tell you a very similar story to the one I told you tonight knowing that you could have passed a scheme that was safer thank you and thank you for the opportunity to sum up so just to stress as I did at the beginning call in this call in you only have to agree with one point that we are making so if you have any doubt that we need to reconsider these designs I implore you to refer this to council or cabinet for further discussion so the Hackney council design is relying on a reduction of 35% of traffic which we're talking about 16,000 conducive to a safe place or a town centre destination this is a junction and the risks of it must be considered as Talia has just really eloquently described it will not eliminate the risk of her experience and the lack of assessment of cycle safety I think is glaring this talks to the calling points of relevant matters being ignored and not being in the best interest of residents tonight we've heard admission of this being a pedestrian focused design with lack of assessments poor consideration of cycle safety which makes the commitment to vision zero hollow and dangerous and the levelling up bid which is now being described as not being cycle focused yet it was asked for cycling campaign support so that I think talks to the point of a lack of clarity of aims and desired outcomes Andrew and Vincent spoke about their concerns that they did not want illegal uncontrolled traffic on the roads we totally agree we don't want that either and that's why we think that a design that separates cyclists and pedestrians and cars and has specific areas for each of those modes is much safer as it does in the vision zero design we can have a design that's safer for cyclists and pedestrians with features that ensure that people move through the junction safely this vision zero design is backed by living streets it's clear that there is a real concerns presented today and we are not asking you to decide over the design we are simply demanding for safety for residents children young people and an independent assessment to be made so we're asking you to refer this to active travel England who can do this quickly and we want to cabinet or to council to call for an active travel England review so we have no doubt thank you I don't know whether you want to make any final points I do feel like I have to correct a point of fact in the colon document this is called a circulating cycle design and it was relevant in the colon document because there was some criticism of us using the phrase cyclops I am not aware of any document that refers to a vision zero junction design I understand the point being made but what we're trying to say is we agree on the underlying principle of trying to make this space safer by reducing traffic it's not just about the traffic reduction the traffic reduction enables us to physically transform the space to slow traffic down by having junctions up having the junction narrowed so that vehicles cannot take the turns at speed and also putting forward a scheme that's an excellent place and excellent pedestrians I just want to say once again thank you very much Claudia for coming I'm terribly sorry about your experience and I appreciate that this forum isn't going to be one where we can address that appropriately and I do want to finish on saying I understand some people don't feel comfortable cycling and that is something that we need to address as well I think Councillor Young did address that in her point about the wider cycling network and it's something that we look forward to working with you on developing in the future and now during this part of the meeting to conclusion and we're going to be retiring for our deliberations and sort of panel members yeah yeah everyone else is welcome to stay in the chamber if that's what you want to do thank you everyone for waiting I'm sorry these evening proceedings have gone on so long but it was important to hear everybody's voices we're now getting to the decision of the scrutiny panel on tonight's call in I don't know whether you want to say anything about the process sorry I've got a list yeah so we're just going to call a vote as I outlined at the beginning there are in broad terms two options that is either to uphold the decision of decision maker or to uphold the call in so I'm going to now do a roll call of councillors and if we're upholding the call in the council will then state which option he or she wishes to proceed with in terms of reverting it to the decision maker or to the cabinet or to full council so I'm going to start with councillor binny lover I vote to uphold the call in and to refer the decision to full council as I believe this breaches the policy framework obviously with the recommendation that they consider more evidence thank you very much now move on to the next person alphabetically which is councillor conway I'd like to uphold the decision of the decision maker yes thank you councillor Hayhurst the say the same uphold the decision decision councillor Ogun Ogun Ogun I'm so sorry that's all right uphold the original decision of the decision maker councillor Patrick I uphold the original decision of the decision maker thank you very much then councillor Siddak I vote to uphold the original decision yeah I think that's a clear majority so if I've understood correctly I don't need to vote the chair unless there's a casting vote which I don't think is needed so the conclusion of tonight's proceedings is that we're upholding the original decision of decision maker on this occasion so thank you very I now is there anything else I haven't been notified of any other business so I now conclude the meeting closed thank you chair thank you chair
Summary
The Scrutiny Panel voted to uphold the original decision made by Mr Tyler Linton, the Assistant Director of Street Scene for Hackney Council. The decision was about the adoption of Traffic Management Orders for the Amherst Road and Pembury Circus Transformation Scheme. The meeting was held to consider the validity of a call-in made against the scheme by five Hackney Councillors.
Pembury Circus
The most significant topic discussed was the design for the Pembury Circus junction. The junction is currently one of the most dangerous in the borough. The call-in councillors argued that the Council's scheme was not in the best interests of residents because:
- An alternative design, the Circulating Cycle Stage (CCS) design, which was not considered in sufficient depth, would be safer for both pedestrians and cyclists.
- The Council’s design removes a pedestrian crossing on Amherst Road that would be retained with the CCS design.
- The scheme will deter people from cycling, particularly less experienced cyclists and children, because of the lack of protected cycle lanes, meaning that they are less able to access and enjoy the amenities in Hackney Central.
The call-in councillors also argued that the design for Pembury Circus junction has been excessively influenced by the design for the adjacent section of Amherst Road. In particular, the Council’s use of a single Multi Criteria Assessment to assess the entire project led to the prioritisation of place-making features, like Public Art and ‘surprise and delight’, at the expense of cycling safety. These criteria are not appropriate for Pembury Circus, because Public Art is not part of the design
.
The call-in councillors also challenged the decision-making process, claiming that it lacked transparency. For example, the Forward Plan was amended without notice to stakeholders like Hackney Cycling Campaign. The plan had initially indicated that the decision about the scheme was to be taken by the Cabinet, but a few days before the supposed decision date, the plan was amended to indicate that the decision would be taken under delegated authority by Mr Linton.
The call-in councillors argued that the scheme’s emphasis on placemaking is contrary to the original Levelling Up Fund (LUF) bid, for which the scheme is being funded. The bid had committed to promoting cycling safety and Vision Zero, the Council's policy of eliminating all traffic fatalities by 2041. Hackney Cycling Campaign claimed that they would not have written a letter in support of the LUF bid if they had known about the final junction designs.
The call-in councillors also argued that the scheme’s design does not meet the standards set by Active Travel England’s (ATE) Local Transport Note 1/20 (LTN 1/20), the national guidance for cycle infrastructure, and by Transport for London (TfL), and that the Council's design would score poorly on the Junction Assessment Tool (JAT). The JAT assesses junctions against generic criteria and junction specific criteria, scoring each specific movement that a cyclist would make across the junction between 0-2. A percentage score of 70% is expected in order for schemes to be eligible for funding.
Mr Garmon ap Garth, from Hackney Cycling Campaign said:
25% as a JAT score, that is if you had a current junction with that kind of score it should be top priority to remove it, to redesign it. There is a design available which is completely safe, 95%, every movement being safe, what the council is proposing will not have any impact on the movement that Claudia had, that will happen again, to somebody else at some point. There is a better design available
He argued that the Council should request an independent assessment by Active Travel England.
Mr Linton acknowledged the concerns that had been raised about the scheme, and that:
developing proposals is a balancing act. We have to weigh up different considerations and needs based on technical data, professional judgment, several different guidelines, not just the ones that I heard tonight…and most importantly, informed by public engagement
He said that the decision about Pembury Circus had been informed by extensive engagement with stakeholders, including multiple meetings and email exchanges with Hackney Cycling Campaign. He insisted that the scheme would make it safer for cyclists and pedestrians
than the current junction. He said that the decision would lead to a statutory consultation process, during which the public would have a further opportunity to comment. Mr Linton indicated that the consultation would last a minimum of 21 days, and that during the statutory consultation, he would consider carrying out further safety assessments and publishing the results, though he reserved the right to decide which tools were appropriate for the job.
Other issues
The panel also considered concerns that the proposed scheme may pose a danger to pedestrians, particularly those with visual impairments. Mr Andrew Hodgson, Vice President of the National Federation of the Blind UK, said that the Council’s design would be safer for visually impaired people because it has 12 sets of tactile paving, compared to 32 for the CCS design. He argued that the CCS design would create a “chaotic confusing and disorienting environment for blind, deafblind, and partially sighted people”. He said that the proposed two-way cycle track would effectively be a two-way route
for cyclists, as many would ignore the one-way restriction. He also claimed that cyclists would “cut the corners off on the junctions” and ride across pavements.
He claimed that:
blind people using white canes and their guide dogs wouldn't be able to detect the cycle lane unless it had at least a 60 millimetre curb with higher curbs preferred, with rock curbs to allow wheelchair access and off the pavement. There is a grave danger that they and their guide dogs will likely walk into the bike lane.
Mr Hodgson expressed concern about the removal of the Amherst Road pedestrian crossing, arguing that cyclists would “not stop” at zebra crossings. He claimed that:
“blind people would not be able to use the area at all and would become further isolated in their home. They could not get to the nearby Hackney Downs station, Hackney Central town centre, or local bus stops."
Mr Vincent Stops, a Hackney resident, said that the CCS design would be “impossible for blind people to navigate” and “a nightmare for everyone else”. He argued that the Council’s design was necessary to keep cyclists and other micromobility vehicles off the pavement. He said that the CCS design would lead to cyclists travelling at speed in both directions on the pavement, not stopping at zebra crossings, and “leaving the track at will”. He claimed that cyclists would “race around the lights to get across at the same green signal as pedestrians”, and would “swerve around them, not give away”.
Decision
Councillor Alastair Binnie-Lubbock was the only panel member to vote to uphold the call-in. He argued that the decision should be referred to full council because the council’s design “breaches the policy framework”. He argued that the council should consider more evidence.
The other panel members – Councillors Sophie Conway, Ben Hayhurst, Joseph Ogundemuren, Sharon Patrick, and Ali Sadek – all voted to uphold the original decision.
Attendees
Documents
- Agenda frontsheet Monday 11-Nov-2024 19.00 Scrutiny Panel agenda
- Public reports pack Monday 11-Nov-2024 19.00 Scrutiny Panel reports pack
- item 4 coversheet Call-in
- 1. Scrutiny Panel MO Report - Amhurst Road_Pembury Circus
- Appendix 1 CE 382 Call-In Request Form.docx
- Appendix 2 - Officer Key Decision Report - Amhurst Road and Pembury Junction Transformation other
- Appendix A 1
- Appendix B