Transcript

Good morning, everyone. This is a meeting of a license in Act 2003 Subcommittee of the London Borough of Newham for review of premises license for a Sona 305 Romford Road Forest Gate E79HA. Please note that the meeting recording will be available after the meeting on the council's YouTube channel. In accordance with the member's code of conduct, three councillors on the committee today are required to declare any relevant interests on any matter being considered at this meeting. I have no interest to declare. I have no interest to declare. Thank you. I will now move to the introductions. My name is Councillor Tony Wilson, I represent Beckton Ward and I'll be chairing this meeting throughout. Good morning, I'm Councillor Jane Lofthouse representing Plastis. Good morning, Councillor Sabir Kamali, Ward Councillor for Stratford. Thank you. Case on. I'm Colin Hand, London Borough of Newham and I'm the case officer for today. Thank you. To start with the police. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Would you like to introduce yourself, sir? Yeah, I'm from Ashraw by UK Limited. Right, did you get that, Marinessa? Lovely, thank you. I'm now going to briefly run through the proceedings for this meeting. The licensing case officer will present their report. We then move to representations from the responsible authorities, for example, the police, trading standards and the environmental health. Members may seek clarification and so can the applicant on their representative on any matters. For today's hearing, we have representation from the police, licensing team. The license holder can then present their case. Finally, members may pass a resolution to deliberate in private and exclude the press and public, including the parties and their representatives. The clerk and legal adviser will remain with the members to provide advice on procedure and law. When decisions have been reached, the meeting will reconvene and the decision of the subcommittee will be announced in public. Four written copies of the decision sent to the applicant, license holder and responsible authorities and interested parties, usually within five working days. Parties who have taken part in the hearing may appeal against the decision to the magistrate's court within 21 days. As this is an administrative hearing under the 2003 Act, we are not trained lawyers, so we rely on legal advice from our legal department. Today represented by Mr Malik. Thank you. I would also like to inform all parties that we base our decisions on written law submissions. The clerk will take minutes of the meeting. Would you like to introduce yourself? Thank you, Marynessa. If anyone in the chamber wishes to ask a question during the meeting, I will ask them to raise their hand and wait to be invited to speak. I'd also like to ask that all mobile phones be switched off and put on silence. Now, Matt. Thank you, Chair. I understand there's some positive discussions out there in the street chambers. Perhaps Mr Jackson would like, how many would you like? I think we say 10 to 15 minutes, and then that would give us a quick chance to maybe type something up and send it to some wording of conditions that we've got at the moment. Pretty much, Grammys Holder has agreed to all the conditions, a few queries around some of that we've currently suggested. So we would just like some time to just take, I'd say 15 minutes would be sufficient. Yeah. OK, thank you. That'll be fine. Is that in? OK. Yes, Chair. Meeting members? Yeah, that's that. Yes, wonderful. So for the time being, I'm going to adjourn this meeting for 15 minutes. So if you're back via 25.2, that would be great. Thank you. This meeting is now adjourned. We're reconvening the meeting now. I'm now going to invite the case officer to read his report. Thank you. Thank you, Chair. The member of the licensing subcommittee asked to hear and determine an application for a review of a premises Sona by Ronford Road, E7 9H8 and any valid representation that had been made. The review application was submitted by the council enforcement team, council licensing team. This was received on the 27th of August. The applicant was, the application was advertised by the licensing team by means of noticing the immediate vicinity of the premises. Chair, the reason it's taken so long because of the 27th of August was a long time ago when it was reviewed. We were asked by the applicant that they were out of the country when it was due to be heard. And in the public interest, we all decided to postpone it until today's date and everybody was in agreement with that, including the applicant, the license holder, sorry. So that's why it's November now and it was, you know, that's the delay. The grounds of the review are on the licensing objective, the prevention of crime, the prevention of public nuisance and public safety. A copy of the review application include pictures of attached appendix A. Additional statements and pictures have been submitted by the reviewing officer and these are attached appendix B. The premises license holder responded to the review application via email. A copy of all documents are attached appendix C. This licensing team have submitted a representation supporting the review application on the grounds of prevention of crime disorder, the prevention of public nuisance and public safety and a copy of their letter is attached appendix E. This premises license was granted in 2006. A copy of the current license is attached appendix E and a map of and street view of the area is attached appendix F. Members of the subcommittee are asked to clear the review application. Thank you. Thank you, Colin. So, Steve, we understand that you've had discussions with the license holder. Us, the licensing authority and the police have had discussions with the service holder. It's pretty much clear to all the conditions on the review. There is just a few conditions that are to be removed and some wording changes to some of the conditions and I'll be happy to go through them now. Yes, please. They are in front of you in terms of the wording, but I'll just take the first condition that's on page 12 of the appendix A. Beers, lager, stats, science, salt, premises should not exceed 6%. That is in full agreement with the applicant and with the wording change of beers, lager, stats, science, salt, premises should not exceed 6% ABV except for 284ml bottles of Dragon Stout Original, 30ml bottles of Guinness Foreign Extra Stout. In addition to that, the bottles of Dragon Stout Original, Guinness Foreign Extra Stout and Guinness Nigerian Foreign Extra Stout shall be displayed behind the counter and shall not be available for self-service. The spirits ones, I've left on there, but that's already on the conditions anyway for those self-service spirits. And all alcohol spokes for sale will be within clear and unobstructed view of CCTV cameras. The conditions, which obviously we did have some discussion around single cans, but the service holder has agreed that he will be willing to keep, he won't sell more than two. No less than two. Sorry. I'm going to go over all these wording changes, I do apologise. And also we've agreed, as it's a small premises and it's a big onus on the premise holder to label all the alcohol products, we've agreed to remove that condition of all alcohol products to be part of a label marked then. Can you tell me what page or paragraph? Again, that's page 12 and it's the fourth condition down. So we've got bottles of, it's the one underneath that, all alcohol products shall be marked with a label or marked with a pen in the name of the postcode. We've gone through obviously the amount of alcohol that the premise holder sells and obviously we did discuss street drinkers in quite detailed content. He does understand what street drinks are, he's going to fully explain this to his staff members. Our main concern was obviously him being out of the country, but his staff have appropriate training. So that one has been agreed to be removed, but the personal and also the personal licence holder or DPS to be present at all times during last four hours, we've also agreed for that to be removed. And the premise holder is going to give his staff training because he does go out of the country quite a lot and it is a big onus with staff turnover that he has. So he's going to train the staff himself and all the conditions that I have listed already are on page 13. And it was the licence holder that we would like to see, but appropriate staff training as listed below or to ensure that DPS or personal licence are present at all times. So we can remove that and we've agreed that staff training records will be kept by the premise holder at all times of the premises. And that, and this panel has in it, yes I've already mentioned that, we have got that in front of me. The uninstructed view of the CCDB that has all their condition that is in front of you. So that is the condition changes. So obviously if members are happy with that. From the licensing authority, we have worked with the premise holder. We were more concerned when he was at the country. He does understand the licensing objective. He has a personal licence himself. And for us, we wouldn't personally like to see this revoked or suspended off in the condition of sufficient enough. And moving forward, we will work with the premise holder and make sure that he understands new conditions if obviously the committee are minded to accept what he has studied there today. OK, thank you. Have you any questions for staff? Yes, I've just got one. You say you're happy for, as the DPS is out of the country a lot of the time, and for the staff to be trained without a personal licence holder. You don't feel that any member of staff at the moment, it would be advisable for them to become in personal licence? I believe in an ideal world, yes, we would love to see that on every premises. This is a small premises. There are bigger retail premises that are already available. Not all of them have like a personal licence holder has to be present. Also with premise holder being out of the country quite a lot. But him giving his staff the appropriate training, that being documented for when we go in as a licensing authority to look at his training records. And obviously what we've actually written down for him to cover for challenge 25, street drinker issues and also undergoing sort of refresher training, all going to come from the premise holder and we will be monitoring that on our inspections as well. And if there is a problem, we can go forward on that as an additional condition later in the future if there is a problem. So you're satisfied with it. Thank you very much. Just going kind of back to that, he's prepared to give his staff training. He received his licence 2006, am I correct? And on your visit, when you went there, you advised him that he should get some training, refresher training for himself. Has that been carried out? That wasn't, I did not speak to the... I mentioned that to him. He obtained his personal licence training 2006. He said he hadn't done any training in the interim period. So I suggested to him that it would be a good idea if he did. He has got an agent who he said does subject training. So I suggested it would be a good idea if he did that. Right, OK. My next question will be for you, but I don't know if I... I think my question was kind of similar to the whole training element of it. If he's not personally trained himself, how is he going to... What would it look like in training his staff, being the fact that he's not in the country? I mean, isn't it advisable for someone else from external to come and train the staff as well? Well, the premise for my discussion we just had is that he's got a very good understanding of what a full licence agent is and what it means to actually train the staff. He's read through all the conditions that we've suggested, and obviously we feel that if he keeps the training record from wanting him to keep, we start. We think that'd be sufficient enough, rather than put a big onus on him paying for someone to get a personal licence and then that staff member leaving, which fundamentally means that his premises can't operate if he loses his staff member. So we've agreed to work with him as it's a smaller premises. Yes, we have had some issues around that premises that we have seen, that's why it was called in for review today. But our main objective today is to get alcohol controlled conditions on this licence, so there's no ice drinks, there's no miniature spirits available for which will attract street drinkers. I think having that already agreed, I think it's a fundamental way forward from the premise and discussions with us today. Thank you. Thank you. Is there any questions you'd like to ask Steve regarding what you have discussed and the agreement you have come to regarding your new conditions? I think we discussed everything, I agree with everything you said before. Okay, all right. You have now an opportunity to speak if you so wish, or are you happy with the proceedings thus far? Okay, are there any questions you'd like to ask the licence holder? I think only going back onto the training issue and just to reassure us that you will be happy enough training your staff, and I should also say how many staff do you have? Two. Two, and they're regular, it's the same two? No, when I'm off, that's why they come in most of the time, but they do part-time, but when I'm off then they take over. So when you're there, there's one other, is there? Yes. All right, and when you go, somebody takes your place? And then they come back. Yes, and you feel comfortable enough about having time to train them? Yes, we discussed that one with police and said I myself need to go further training, so both will go together through the training. Thank you, I think, yes, we assured. Okay, back again on the staff training thing, you said that you have an agent. Yes. Have you been corresponding with your agent before today's hearing? Yes. And this agent is the one that is going to be training you and you then will train your staff? Yes. Can you tell me the name of the agent, please, so we can have it noted that you have an agent who will be supporting you going forward? Thank you. Azad. Mr Azad. And the name of the company, sir? The person who will work with me. Take your time. While we're waiting, can I just ask Steve a question? Yes, of course. Sorry, you mentioned about the conditions when you were going through them. Is it agreed that he would sell in packs of two, minimum in packs of two, is that what you said? Bottled and canned. Yeah, that's fine. No less than two. The company, is this correct? It's Lecture Solicitors. Yeah, Lecture Solicitors. Could you give Marinus, it's actually on the record and their address, please, when you're ready. Okay, if you have it, that's where I put my phone. Councillor Kamali, is there any questions you'd like to ask? Just a quick question, I just wanted a clarification on how often do you travel abroad and how often do you rely on these two staff? No, I didn't travel. I just went to China, this was maybe three years I never travelled. It's not so regular? Yeah, because even today if you sit there, say I travel, I was there, but I think maybe three years I didn't travel, I just travelled, I came back two days ago. So you're mainly in your shop, so you're not that often? I'm always here. Are there any further questions you'd like to put to the licence holder? You're happy and satisfied, yes? Any questions? Not for me. Okay, fine, thank you. Right, so are we going to deliberation? Yes. Okay, so we're going to adjourn for a while, we will give you the decision today. Don't go too far, but we're going to go into deliberations now, so we're going to adjourn the meeting and as soon as we've made our decision, we will call you guys back. Yeah. All right, thank you. This meeting is now adjourned. Thank you everyone for coming back, we have made a decision. Would you like to read it out? Yes, having heard all submissions written on the roll, the licensing subcommittee has decided to be more than five minutes, so we include four peer agreed conditions. The following two decisions are going to be made and will be sent to the applicant within five working days. Thank you. Thank you. We are happy for you gentlemen, licensing team and police to speak to Mr Mensah regarding having his refresher training now rather than later. Thank you. Yeah, understood. Thank you very much. Responsible authorities and interested parties within two working days. Sorry, the applicant responsible authorities and interested parties may appeal against the decision to the magistrate's court within 21 days. Thank you very much. Good luck. This meeting is now closed. Thank you. Thank you very much.