Transcript
Committee and welcome to the statutory licence in subcommittee.
My name is Councillor Zee Russell, I am the Chair of the statutory licence in committee
and I shall be chairing the hearing today.
Before we commence the hearing procedure, I need to advise you today that the meeting
is broadcast live via the Council's internet site and members of the press and public may
record or take photos except whether I will confidential items.
With a bit of housekeeping, we are not expecting a fire alarm, but if it does go off, please
make your way to the piazza at the front of the building.
Tourists can be found by the lift area to the left of the lifts and if I could ask everyone
just to check your mobile phones to make sure they are on silent so it doesn't interrupt
the hearing.
I will now call on the licensing subcommittee members to introduce themselves.
Councillor WILMOND.
Good morning all.
I am Councillor Gail Wildman, Member of the Subvert Licenses Subcommittee.
Good morning, I am Councillor Jonathan Croft, Member of this committee.
Thank you both.
I will now ask our committee clerk, Donner, to read out the names of everyone here and
if you could just kindly introduce yourself.
Donner.
Thank you, Chair.
So if we start with the applicant, Diane.
Good morning, Diane Slack, Tobacco Control Officer for Trading Standards.
And then if we move to the premises licence holder, if you want to introduce yourself,
please.
Lovely.
My name is Kayfie Ishmael, I am a licence holder.
Then moving on to the Responsible Authorities, Amitabh.
Good morning, everybody.
Amitabh is seeing Section Leader in Licensing acting in my capacity as a Responsible Authority
for the Licensing Authority.
Thank you.
Belvinda.
Good morning, go above and to meet the Section Leader in Licensing, I am just hit the shadow.
Is it Kaylee?
Kaylee, Lakeson, West Midlands Police, Licensing Officer, Port of Ampton.
Thank you.
And Bao?
Bao Lee.
Bao Lee.
How far on West Midlands Police, Licensing Department.
Thank you.
Alina Bao, Public Health Improvement Officer.
Anita.
Anita Chang, Senior Licensing good compliance officer.
Ronald.
Good morning, everybody.
My name is Ronald St. Pepper, I'm just a legal advisor to the committee.
Thank you.
I'm Donna Coe, I work in Democratic Services and I clerk the meetings.
To my right is Shelley Humphries, she's also a Democratic Services officer and she will
be conducting the live stream for us today.
Thanks, Chair.
Thank you, Donna.
We are now to general item one, are there any apologies for absence, Donna?
Non-received, Chair.
Thank you, Councillors.
I just have to ask, do you have any decorations of interest?
No, Chair.
No, Chair.
No, I have none either.
Today, we follow in the review hearing procedure that is set out before you and for information
we're at part three.
Can I confirm we've done that everyone has been sent a copy of these procedures?
Yes, they have, Chair.
Thank you.
And does everybody understand the procedures?
Do you understand the procedure?
Yes, sir.
Thank you.
Just to make you aware, this is not a court of law.
Witnesses will not take, you don't have to take oaths or anything like that.
You won't be cross-examined, but we may ask questions around obviously the evidence
and the reports that we've received.
It's just a way to try and get what's going on and try and find a happy medium for everybody.
Although this is a public meeting, only those who've said they can speak are allowed to
make representation.
Questions will be allowed to clarify any point that has been raised.
The subcommittee may ask questions of those who address it, so it could be to everybody
in the room as well.
We're here today because an important decisions need to be made, so we need to hear all the
evidence and people's views in a calm and civil manner, or ask everyone to maintain polite
behaviour and any comments comes through me, the Chair.
I will not put back and forth arguments and anyone who acts in a disruptive manner will
be asked to leave.
We're at now at point six of the procedure and as you can confirm, ask the officer from
licensing to outline the report.
The statutory licensing subcommittee are here today to consider an application for a review
of a premises licence in respect of European mini-market 94 Presswood Road Wolverhampton
WV11 1RA.
An application was received from the trading standards on the 21st of March 2024 for a
review of a premises licence and is in relation to the prevention of crime and disorder and
the protection of children from harm licensing objectives.
The current premises licence is attached to Appendix 1, the premises is located within
the Heathtown Ward, a location plan is attached to Appendix 2.
The application was made properly and all statutory requirements have been complied with by the
licensing authority, a copy of the review application is attached to Appendix 3.
Representations have been received from the licensing authority Public Health and West Midlands
Police.
These representations can be found at Appendix 4 to 6 respectively.
Additional information has been provided by trading standards.
This can be found at Appendix 7 to 9 respectively and also within the supplementary agenda pack.
The application is for a review of a premises licence and is before the subcommittee for
consideration.
Thank you Chair.
Thank you.
Can I confirm with our committee clerk that a copy of the report and supplementary papers
have been sent out to all parties in advance of the meeting?
Yes, they have, Chair.
Trading standards, can you confirm that a report, the report read out, was accurate?
It is, Chair.
Thank you.
We're now part 7 of the procedure where the applicant is to present their case, I choose
the, sorry, trading standards, sorry, I'm getting ahead of myself again here.
Trading standards, Diane, can you make your representation to the subcommittee?
Through you, Chair.
Local weights and measures authority as it's responsible authority status under the Licensing
Act.
The European mini-market is a trading name for DARPA-limited, registered offices 94 press
with Roadball, Bahamutton and DAR, Ababaka, Abdul Rahman poor is the sole director and
person with significant control of the company.
Mr Esmail is here today as the hold of the premises licence and the designated premises
supervisor.
On November, in November, 2023 and in February, 2024, trading standards received intelligence
or oversized vapes had been seen in the shop.
As a result, European mini-market was included in an inspection exercise by trading standards
on the 14th of March, 2024.
In the inspection, over 1,000 illegal cigarettes, 16 pouches of hand rolling tobacco and 158
overs, believed to be oversoldised vapes were found in the store.
The vapes were openly displayed for sale on shelving behind the counter.
The cigarettes and hand rolling tobacco were found hidden in a hold-all bag in the bottom
of shelving unit, a substantial amount of cash was also found, which I can confirm was
now £1,640.
The cigarettes found were not allowed to be sold in the UK as they carried foreign warnings
and were not in permitted playing packaging.
They appeared to be of non-duty paid and some were suspected of being counterfeit.
The items were likely to have been smuggled in and this is in offence under section 144
of the licensing act.
The vapes found in the premises appear to have a nicotine tank larger than permitted
by the UK regulations.
It sort of suggests that the vapes themselves, the tank capacity, is larger than 2 millilitres,
which is roughly about 600 puffs, but the seized vapes were in far excess of that.
These items are not allowed in the UK and believe to have been smuggled in.
At the time of the inspection, the owner of the shop was not present.
A lady who was there said she was a friend of the owner and helping out.
Having standards spoke to the owner and asked him about the hold or contain in the illegal
cigarette, he said he did not know about them.
He also told officers that the cash found was for a delivery and it was to be handed
to a delivery driver.
When we were asked about the hold or contain in the illegal tobacco to the lady, she said
it was there when she arrived, it did not belong to her.
She also said she had not been asked by the owner to hand money over to the delivery driver.
The cigarettes, hand-riling tobacco and vapes were bagged up and taken away by trading standards.
The cash that was found was seized by West Midlands Police.
Officers found there was no license summary on display and as a result of everything that
has happened as premises license hold and Mr Ismad has engaged in activities which have
reached the licensing objective, namely the prevention of crime and disorder and the protection
of children from harm.
The Home Office publishes guidance under Section 182 of the Licensing Act.
Where reviews arise and the licensing authority determines that crime prevention objective
is being undermined through the premises being used for the crimes, it is expected that suspension
or revocation of the license, even in the first instance, should be seriously considered.
With regards to vapes under the tobacco unrelated products regulations, there is a minimum standard
for the safety and equality of all e-cigarettes and refill containers.
On the 24th of January this year, the government announced that disposable vapes will be banned
in the UK as part of a government plan to tackle the rising youth vaping and the protect
children's health.
Information on the government UK website states that the measure comes as part of a government's
response to its consultation on smoking and vaping, which was launched in October last
year.
Recent figures show the number of children using vapes in the past three years has tripled.
Youth amongst younger children is also rising with 9% of 11-15 year olds now using vapes.
The long-term health impacts of vaping are unknown and the nicotine contained within them
can be highly addictive.
Trading standards is recommending that the license and committee considers a suspension
of the premises license for three months to allow for staff training and the addition
of robust conditions to the premises license.
In particular, the addition of a license condition that the European mini market will sign up
to a responsible retailer scheme of an equivalent standard to the city of Wolverhampton Council
Trading Standards responsible retailer scheme before the suspension lapses and any other
matters as the sub-committee sees fit.
Thank you Chair, thank you Dorianne Councillors, do you have any questions, Councillor Wildman?
No questions Chair, Councillor Croft.
No questions Chair.
I've just got a couple, just to reiterate, the lady didn't know where the money, she
wasn't instructed to hand it over to anyone at any particular time while she was serving
in the shop.
That was correct Chair, I just wanted to clarify with that, now that's thank you.
Your license hold, did you want any questions of the trading standards now, sir?
Okay thank you.
West Midlands Police, would you like to ask any questions?
Through you Chair, it's just to ask, when any communication has been taking place between
yourself and the premise license hold or DPS or this other individual who's in charge,
who has it been, has there been any communication between yourself and the premises?
Before we went in or?
No after, after the visit, have you spoken to the DPS or premise license hold or this other
individual who is in charge of the premises?
I haven't spoken to anybody.
Okay, no problem, thank you.
Thank you Kayleigh.
Public Health, do you have any questions for trading standards?
No Chair.
Thank you, the licensed authority, do you have any questions for trading standards?
No thank you Chair.
Thank you, Ronald, do you have any questions or any legal points we should be made aware
of?
No questions Chair.
Thank you.
We're now part eight of the procedure where the premises license holder is to make their
representations to the subcommittee, so it's over to you sir, you need to present your
case to us if you put your mic on.
Yeah, I'm just talking about my license holder, we're not talking about the business for the
shop or minimarket, this is not my business, this is a different store.
I'm just come today for my license, I just apply for the job for that shop, that minimarket.
The first day we know, it's an illegal selling or tobacco or vape or anything else, I just
left the shop, I forget to my cart, my passport, everything I left the shop, we don't know
nothing about it, after two months I remember, oh I left everything is there, there's nothing
about it for that happening from that shop, we're nothing, we don't know, still I don't
know where's the shop, we don't know, just one hour I'll be there, one hour, I was shocked
when we received the paper, post, email, phone calls, the story that happened, I don't understand
why they received the post or little emails from the council, they find anything illegal
from that shop, still we don't know, I'm not working there, we're not doing anything,
so I'm not owner, you don't believe it, I'll be contact for free peoples to find these
guys and that shop will go back to there to collect my passport, license holder and certificate
of the license, I will be there only for one hour, we see in the owner, after two, over
two months, I remember, we need to my passport, I said where's the passport, we don't know
nothing about that shop, nothing about it, we're not working there, I'm not owner, I'm
not partner, we know nothing about it, if you ask me about any question about that shop
I don't know, I'll just, yeah, sorry, is that all you want to say, okay thank you, you just
turn your mic off then, thank you, it's all right because we're all, I know I'm looking
a bit puzzled, and I'm a colleague, so far more versed in this than I am, I'm flabbergasted,
it's only word I can use, Amit I think you want to come and just read or something there?
Thank you chair, just some technical points, just for clarity then, are you saying, you
know nothing about this business, you weren't involved in the running of it, nothing, okay,
now, sorry, if you ask me now for that shop with the owner name, and where's the shop,
and shop the name, and she's reading something, I will be shocked with nothing about it, okay,
yeah, this premise is, and I'll confer with my licensing colleague over there, you would
have had to, I think there was a license in place, and it was transferred I think in February,
to get the transfer and the very DPS, which your name does, you would have had to sign
some documents and provide some information, do you recall signing any documents on an
application form and sending through any documents to the City of Wolverhampton Council licensing
team, okay, I'll show you my sign, my driving license, my passport, and whatever you want
I signed for you, if you, same is my responsibility, but if you know, oh I know, okay, so do you
recall signing anything, nothing, right, currently, sorry, the reason that you're here today is
that the premises license is in your name, okay, but I'm telling you again for everybody,
I always bid that shop only for one hour, can I just ask everyone, would just, can we
pause the recording, just for a moment please, okay, thank you everybody for coming back
after that short adjournment, I believe Mr Ishmael that you've surrendered your license,
is that correct, yeah, I'm sorry it's under these circumstances, and I really do feel
for you, you know, if what's gone on has happened, you know, it's not noise for someone, Ronald
will just give a quick overview of anything, do we need to add, okay, can we get a copy
of this, okay, I think in view of everything we've heard today, and obviously in view of
the fact that the license has not been surrendered, it will appear, certainly, there's no longer
need for this review at this stage, there's nothing to review per se, so effectively,
I'm not going to say the chair will say, but you know, the hearing comes to an end in
those circumstances, and that will be the end of that really, terribly sorry if we ask,
we don't get to hear your representations, but they're no longer relevant in light of
everything that's happening this morning, okay, Mr Ishmael, that's the end of the proceedings,
I wish you well in whatever you do next, thank you very much, yeah, that's fine, yeah,
thank you, and that's the end of the meeting, everyone, thank you for coming.