Transcript

Good afternoon and thank you for joining the live public meeting. I need to advise you that today's meeting will be broadcast live via the council's internet site and that members of the press and public may record and take photographs except where there are confidential items. Before I move on to the agenda items, I just want to go around the table for introductions and in what capacity. On my right is, thank you, thank you chair, Barbara McGarrity, Oxley Ward, Donna Cope, Democratic Services and I clerk the meetings. Melkinda Jaspel, Heathtown Councillor. Councillor Laman Lloyd, Ettinghamshire South and Springfield. Sue Roberts, Bilston North Ward. Tracey Christie, Head of Legal Services and I'm just observing today. Laura Gittos, Head of Governance. Michelle Rose, Solicitor and Deputy Monitoring Officer. I'm presenting an item today. Wendy Thompson, Councillor, Techno Whittock Ward and leader of the Conservative Opposition Group. Councillor Jonathan Crofts, Techno Whittock Ward. Councillor Paul Brookfield, Bushbury South and Low Hill. Deputy Director of Governance and Deputy Monitoring Officer. David Patterson, Chief Operating Officer and Monitoring Officer. Thank you all for that. The first item on the agenda are apologies for absence. Are there any apologies for absence? Donna. Yes chair, we've had apologies from Councillor Linda Leach, who is undertaking mayoral duties. Apologies from Councillor Simon Bennett and we've got Councillor Wendy Thompson here as a substitute. Thanks chair. Thank you Donna. Could I say there'll be a change in this committee and I understand it's already operating and we've got the Chief Operating Officer here to say that that is correct. Yes Councillor, I'm already aware of that, thank you. Declarations of interest. Are there any councillors who wish to declare a disposable pecuniary interest or a disclosable non-pecuniary interest in relation to any matter on today's agenda? No, okay we'll move on to the minutes of the previous meeting. Please turn to the minutes on the previous meeting held on the 14th of March 2024 on page 3 of your agenda pack. I move that the minutes of the previous meeting held on the 14th of March 2024 be approved as a correct record. Is that seconded? Thank you. All those in favour say aye. Those against say no. That is carried. Right now I must say that we're going to move on to agenda item 7 for the first one so we'll come back to agenda 5. Sorry let's get to matters arising first, I do apologise. Are there any matters arising from the minutes of the previous meeting? No, okay right. Right, agenda item 7, that one here, it's the one that wasn't available when it went to print so David, over to you, thank you. Thanks very much chair. So this item is preparations on the general election and the reason that I asked the chair if that she would mind bringing this forwards was because Laura Gittos is going to be presenting on it and needs to be a way to do some work on the general election preparation during this meeting so that that's why we asked for it. The reason again I know understandably councillors do not like having late papers, it wouldn't have been a late paper but for obviously and this is a snap general election and obviously we were not expecting that to be the case and therefore it's taking some time to get those papers together but it's been done at speed and was obviously made available earlier this week so I'm just going to introduce it and just cover off the first few pages of the report and then I'll hand over to Laura and then we'll do a bit of a double team on any questions you've got. So as we know a snap general election was called just around two weeks ago and between since that date until now an awful lot work has been going on to make sure that the general election is as well run as the local election was on the 2nd of May. I'm absolutely confident it will be and you'll see from the report before you there's an awful lot involved in preparing for a general election. Six week notice is a challenge and again that's the same with every local authority up and down the country in relation to that. One of the particular, there are a few particular challenges which you'll notice as we go through. One of these is that we are operating on new parliamentary boundaries so the boundaries have changed. So one of the challenges and again you'll see this at 2.2 is the new constituencies of Wolverhampton North East, Wolverhampton South East, Wolverhampton West are not, I say not co-terminates with ward boundaries. You'll recall we did ask for that from the Boundary Commission we indeed there was a council response back to the Boundary Commission on exactly this point. The one which is particularly stands out is St Peter's which is split across all three MP constituencies. So there is also an issue obviously in Oxley and also in Bushbury North where it goes across to two constituencies. One of the challenges that that then provides for us is normally we would count for its own, let Laura go through the count in some detail. I'll pick it up but just give you a advance warning. That will also mean that the count will not be done in wards because clearly ward like St Peter's is across three different constituencies. So we will not be counting on a ward basis because we simply can't because they're split wards. So it is not helpful. One of the other challenges we've also got again we'll come to a bit of detail is that because of that boundary change we are taking in 50,000 voters from Walsall, the area of the Walsall Metropolitan Borough Council area which again you know has set out in the report Laura go through and it came to this very committee a protocol. We thought it would be difficult so therefore we brought you a protocol which you you helped us with and signed off but it the key is that's now operational and actually working really well and really sets out clearly who does what which is which is really good. So at paragraph 2.3 of the additional report we've got the details in relation to up until the dissolution of Parliament who the MPs were. One of the other challenges again is that certain Election Act reforms came into force immediately after some came in immediately after the elections effectively and that they're ones which the last elections were ones which we're working through which include overseas electors rules and also post about handling which was in place before the May election. The what I should say is I thought that the election on the 2nd of May went went really well that's my observation and the feedback I've had from candidates and agents. We would have been bringing a preparation report to this meeting. I debrief as to how that the local elections went on the 2nd of May for obvious reasons we haven't because all the team who would be working on that are currently working on the preparations for the general election and are getting in a good place. I can give you assurance you know Laura's going to go through with detail now but I am really literally just come from an elections board and an internal meeting with Laura and Sergeit. It is in a really good place we are organizing it the organization is working really well and everything that we would want to be in place is so it's going according to the plan which we we had a plan in place we had a risk register everything in place ready should there be a snap general but it always comes when you weren't quite expecting it so it's just could we just finished their local we just not with work on that and then suddenly it comes but but we are in a really good place so with your permission I'll hand over to Laura just to go through some of the detail. Thank you for that David okay Laura. Thank you and through you chair so the items of the report that I'm going to cover today if I start with item three which is overseas electors and our last report to you which you saw in January and stated that we had 64 overseas electors that number has now gone up to 183 and as you'd imagine and we probably expect to see another increase in that and when more national comms and probably overseas comms starts to land from the government as well and the team are managing this well and as we said it is a new process so a lot of it we are learning as we go but we've got some great expertise in the team that are handling that and ensuring that our overseas electors are getting the right um advice that they need especially around. Is that better? Lovely I thought I sounded like a Dalek then. Yeah new battery and so yeah I can assure you that overseas electors are getting the right advice from us as a service that they need and another one that we updated you on back in January was just about postal vote handling and the new rules which I think everyone is now quite clear on after our elections in May. The biggest thing is obviously about political campaigners are now not allowed to handle any postal votes I think that's one of our clear messages that we've sent out and as David's already updated so item five is our cross-boundary working and so as you know we are taking in five wards from Warsaw which will be within our northeast and southeast constituencies and there's our protocol which we've linked to on the paper that you can see that we approved back in February and as David said the protocol is now operational and we are working very well we've got clear chat open channels of communication we meet every other day at the moment and to make sure that we sort of we are in line we're talking and we know exactly how everything's going to happen. As the taking authority we have a lot more responsibility that comes to us but we are very confident at the moment in the way that we're working that you know it will be a smooth process for us here at Wolverhampton. Next up item six is around voter ID so as you know we've been through two elections now where voter ID has been part of what we do here at Wolverhampton and we've had very very small turn away figures from our polling stations I think it was around it was over what were the figures David if we recall. Give me literally 20 seconds. Sadly on this occasion we won't be able to do as many dropping sessions as we normally do however thankfully we had those sessions in May so we may have got hold of quite a lot of people to get some voter ID however we've had no confirmation from our customer services team that there will be open points throughout the day from 10 to 3 o'clock every working day to come in and get support for your voter ID applications. So the figures in terms of turnaways for the 24 elections so 99.8 percent of people who attended the polling station brought their photo ID that met the requirements. The total electors voting at polling stations were 35,903 there were 69 voters who tried to ask for a ballot paper but didn't meet the photo requirements 69. There were 183 who were initially turned away but returned with an acceptable ID so it was 0.2 that were that were turned away that was exactly the same percentage as in 2023 but actually the thing that went up which is really positive is the people who returned went and came back with an acceptable ID so that went from 113 in 2023 to 183 in 2024 people who actually went and went came back so it does feel and the comparative data will come out shortly from the electoral commission it feels like the message is getting through Wolverhampton not least because we've done an awful lot of comms on it but actually it's a very small number who were not able to vote but we are doing an awful lot of comms on that as Laura says. Thank you David. Yes so as I was saying so customer services will be available from 10 till 3 every working day for anyone that needs support and what we have also just agreed as well is on the 26th of June which is deadline day and the deadline is 5 p.m. to apply so we've extended that drop in session till half past 4 that day so for us the deadline you might think that people could come in and apply at five they have to be on our electronic system by five so we need that window to ensure that it's registered and people are on the system ready to have their voter authority certificate and our customer services team have been really supportive and we're very positive that they're going to make sure that there's a really nice environment and experience for those that need that support and as Daisy David was saying the voter authority certificate information will be on everyone's poll cards so all of that will be available for them that lands on their door and we'll be doing a lot of local campaigns and there'll be national campaigns as well given it's a general election also today we have agreed a flyer and this will be made available to our councillors and sent electronic electronically to any candidates and agents to use also and this will have details around proxy voting postal voting and how to get your voter authority certificate as well so we're going to make sure for our residents is enough information out there as we can possibly get to them and item seven around our candidates and agents so we've already held one briefing and already and we'll be holding a second briefing on the 13th of June and at the moment nomination period ends tomorrow so we open Monday and it closes tomorrow and we're in a really good place you've had quite a lot come forward already and the team are handling it really really well so far so we're very confident with that and there's just some key dates there for you around the registration so register to vote is by the 18th of June and for postal's and proxy is the 19th of June at 5 p.m. and then as I mentioned previously the voter authority certificate deadline is 5 p.m. on the 26th of June please note you have to be registered to vote by the 18th in order to get a voter authority certificate they go hand in hand the dates as you can see are set quite differently around the guidelines that we are given so the most important message is please ensure you are registered to vote and if you are that means that you'll get your voter authority certificate item 9 is around the scale of fees so we bring regular updates to you around our scale of fees you'll see in appendix 1 and we've had to make some slight changes due to the fact that we now have a general election and we have ensured that our pay scales are in line with those at Warsaw so we have 32 polling stations in Warsaw and their pay is just a little bit different to what we do here at Wolverhampton to ensure that they are treated fairly and that we keep all of those presiding officers we've aligned our scale of fees which I think makes perfect sense we want to make sure that we've got all the staff that we need to and those presiding officers know their areas as well which I think is really key and really important that it's staffed by Warsaw and there are some fees that are slightly changed for overnight working but if there are any questions on that we'll definitely take them at the end and I think the main point for us to make is 9.2 so myself and Laura Noonan work very hard to ensure that any of the scale of fees are aligned with the claims unit protocol set by government so all of our fees are within the right margins so that when we put a claim back into the claims unit they can easily see why our scale of fees are what they are here at Wolverhampton. Item 10 is polling stations and I can confirm today that all of our polling stations have come back and returned their polling station forms which is really really good given we've done that in two weeks and so all the booking letters are done and as you'll see from item 10.3 there's been one change due to the sort of the last-minute nature of a snap of general election and we have reverted back to using the Edward the Elgar school instead of the community centre and the reason why it had to be the school at that point is one time and also it's really important that if we look for the venues we have to go out and do health and safety assessments accessibility which slows things down whereas now we're in a really good place that our poll cards are ready and all the information that needs to be on them is the information that you know needs to be there and the fact that we've agreed this meant it didn't slow it down no one has to get reissued any different communications which I think is really important again and any electors that notice this one change will be notified they'll get letters and at their old polling station and at the community centre will put notices up for them so that they know that it's moved and to Edward the Elgar school to make sure it's as clear as possible for everybody on the day and another element of what we're doing is around the fact that we are constituencies as David mentioned so some of our polling stations will become combined and this is just due to the nature of how our constituencies are now laid out and as we said previously there are 32 polling stations in Warsaw which our RO returning officer here at Wolverhampton does take responsibility for item 11 postal vote opening and so as in previous years that will take place in the city suite in in a civic centre one thing that we are doing this time is we are starting that process earlier we normally do around nearly two weeks of postal vote opening and we are going to potentially start our postal vote opening either the 21st on the Friday or maybe Thursday the 20th more than likely going to be Thursday the 20th now that's two days ahead because we know that volumes will increase for a general election around those returning their postal votes and we want to be prepared to handle those as much as possible we have also built in contingency in our planning that there may be opening sessions on the Saturday and the Sunday the weekend before the election as well as ever those sessions are viewable you can book in with the team 24 hours in advance and come and see sort of what's happening in our postal vote area and then our phone up final sessions will be taking place as we've done before at the fitness suite at Aldersley at the fitness suite there's normally a lunch time and an evening we're probably going to do a longer session on that last day on the 4th of July probably starting 10 till 4 and then we'll do the evening or overnight and David I imagine you want to come in at this point around postal vote opening and the evening of the counties that's okay thanks very much so I just wanted to just cover something which will be a bit of a change to to councillors here something that I always had in mind we would do when we came to a parliamentary election so over the last couple of years we made it and the team's made an awful lot of improvements to the way in which we do elections and I'm really pleased with the way it's done the ballot box receipts it's really good the way we're processing a postal votes is really good the one area where I've had some challenge in last in 21 and 22 we didn't have it in 23 and 24 because they were and we did counts the next day rather than through the night counts was actually the delay in starting the count in terms of starting the verification so in 21 and 22 there was a bit of a delay what the the approach in Wolverhampton previously was to wait until every single post about they've been received and that includes the ones which were literally handed in that 959 at a polling station was processed every all of those were properly processed before any verification or count started of any single of a single vote what happens in a number of other places is you you obviously process all of those correctly and absolutely transparently that the poster vote is always open to candidates and agents to view what's happening but actually you start the verification and the count of those boxes that have already been received be it from the polling stations or the postal vote that will have been received you know soon after they go out on the 14th of June you you start those literally a sort of probably quarter past 20 past 10 on the evening and you add in the late postal votes later on but obviously making sure they're properly accounted for and it's all transparently done if you wait you know if we were to wait for those to be properly done you wait for sometimes an hour and a half or two hours and they there's been quite a frustration from candidates and agents why isn't it commenced that is exactly the process that that I've done before indeed Laura Noonan has been our lecture manager before has seen that in other places and the cover we've got for Laura at moment because Laura's going off from maternity leave shortly Maggie who's come in has done it in other places too so it's a usual process we hadn't done it in 23 and 24 as I say because we were you know we were doing weren't needing to do overnight counts we didn't do it in 22 and 21 because 21 was a COVID election 22 we were already making a number of other changes in other places so we didn't want to make all all the changes we needed to the election process at once this is always what I had in mind to do in 23 or 24 and indeed we are now doing it in 24 it will be will be really clear with candidates and agents on how we're doing it but it's a usual practice and it just means candidates and agents and those those very interested in the result don't have to hang around and wait for two hours before we start the process and remove some of that frustration there will as Laura says be an awful lot of media interest we we intend to to start the process fairly quickly as to exactly when we'll finish I can't I can't say that there's always the question I would expect this to be finished in the early hours at some point be it 3 bit 4 bit 5 it will depend on how tight it is is there a need for a recount etc I do feel that the processes are quite slick the one challenge obviously is we are counting an awful lot more votes than normal because we are also including the Warsaw the Warsaw areas so that that extra volume will take a little bit more time but overall I think Laura and I we're in a good place okay to continue chair thank you and so yet so as Daisy was saying around verification verification in town and that will be taking place at Aldersley as normal we will be receiving the ballot boxes at Aldersley we intend to start verification at one minute past 10 and the RO Tim Johnson returning officer will make that announcement as David said the timings we can't give you absolute definitive at the moment around what those look like we would hope and predict to be completed by around 1 a.m. for most of our verification but not all of it based on the postal vote way in which we're operating approximations around finishing the count are around 4 a.m. but that is dependent on if there's any recounts or any other extensions to time that happen on that evening and and as ever I think for us at Wolverhampton is something that's worked very well for us is we do prioritize our accuracy over speed and I know that our candidates and agents are always keen that we get them the results when they want them but I want to make sure those results are right are correct are the most accurate and that we deliver you an efficient and effective count which I think here at Wolverhampton we've been very good at these last few years for those of you that will be there over that evening I can assure you the cafe will be open throughout and there will be coffee and snacks made available to everybody as it will be a long evening and parking will be available on site for all those that will be attending and but as ever I've been asked to say that we encourage car sharing just to make sure that we can accommodate everybody on site and David has alluded to this already but in 12.5 and we have already seen a significant media interest in Wolverhampton and especially being at our account venue so far we have had expressions of interest from BBC News national and local West Midlands ITN Sky News and GB News so far and there will be specific media areas the staging will look a lot different than what you used to it will be bigger there will be a platform for the media also and so in order to accommodate that within our venue we're making sure we fit it in we make it safe and that we're health and safety compliant as well with what we're doing and in the next few weeks the media outlets will confirm who are going to be at Aldersley they have already done a walk around at Aldersley and prior to our May elections as they were keen to see our layout and what we do and how we do it here at Wolverhampton so we do expect that that interest will continue up until our count on the night there will also be the TVs made available so on the evening there will be the national news from BBC out in the cafe area and in the current venue to keep an eye on other results and the election throughout the evening also and then if I go on to item 13 around the financial implications and so as you can see here detailed by our finance finance colleagues and there is a maximum set recoverable amount which we'll be working in as part of our three constituencies and we're very lucky to have a very good finance team here that support us at Wolverhampton and we will show that we sit within the bounds of what we have we have also been lucky again and we've had a further grant from the government item 13.2 we've been granted nearly 35,000 pounds of new burdens funding regarding some of the new things around our elections at which we're bringing in which is around our overseas electors our voter ID and postal about handling part of our comms and how we do what we do and this will be paid in early June they're currently there are no legal implications we are compliant with everything that we need to be currently compliant with and equalities implications there are none we always make reasonable adjustments and assessments and everything that we do as part of our elections and I think as I know we've spoken to you previously we've worked very hard with all of our communities to make sure those that need accessible ways to vote get them and we've been used as a really good example the beacon Center for the blind are doing a lot of articles on us at the moment as well around some of the work that we've done so I do feel like this is a piece of work that we've made a lot of effort in here at Wolverhampton and nationally we have been recognized one of the councils that went above and beyond regarding our accessibility and the new laws that were brought in under the Elections Act so I'm very proud of that piece of work by Laura Newnham and then just to mention there's the background papers in item 16 which is regarding the protocol and the agreements with Warsaw and then there's the appendix that I have referenced previously around our elections fees and charges that is the end of the report and thank you for listening and I'm sure that through you chair me and David would be happy to take any questions thank you Laura for that presentation right okay I'll move the recommendations is that seconded thank you are there any questions or any comments at all can't adjust well yeah thanks just just out of interest that thank you Laura for the detailed presentation the overseas voters I'm assuming they can only vote through the postal vote system not any electronic email or anything that's not in could you confirm that please it's okay to come in chair thank you so through you chair and yet so the only way so they can vote is in person or via post or proxy so people could fly home to vote however that's probably unlikely and so therefore those that are registered to vote as overseas electors we are proactively communicating with them we're writing out to them we are emailing them and electronically it's the quickest way to talk to them to say the postal votes are being managed and we'll go through Heathrow as a central hub to get those out across the world for those that want to vote however obviously as you'd imagine there will be delays to getting those votes to people and getting them back so we are proactively encouraging where possible people to have a proxy vote to put in place someone can come and do that on their behalf thank you for that and the second point was regarding staffing nationally there's a shortage of staff but in the past we we've coped with that so another assurance really from you that we've got no issues or or problems and then the the third point is about the the point you mentioned about the the payments so we've taken in Warsaw areas so is our pay or salary compatible with the Warsaw one or is it sort of higher or lower what was it and if you could tell us about Dudley as well if you can because that borders on to all that it is so through you chair and the first item around staffing I can confirm to you today that we have staffed a hundred eight hundred and seventy one people for this election so far and we have very dedicated offices in our elections team that have made that happen and we're awaiting just some final appointment letters but yet I can give you the assurance today that we've got nearly that 900 staff that are going to make those two days work for us it's really really positive and a lot of those are our internal colleagues that really step up but we do have a lot of people that are out there that want to come in and wear collections as well and so we have a real broad mix of people that come forward and we've put calls out to the university as well for students and in various different and voluntary sectors as well that might be interested so we've had quite a lot of people come forward they've really made it work for us in in two weeks that feels like quite a feast to have got doing and then your second point around the payments with Warsaw so Warsaw and pay their presiding officers more than we do hence why we've increased it and it's not massive amounts but we wanted to make sure that those presiding officers weren't disadvantaged by being as part of those 32 polling stations and then I don't have the Dudley information however I can get that and I can write out to you as members if that's okay afterwards to let you know no no just out of interest don't want don't you've got enough on your plate I really appreciate that and I think you chain needs to be recognized you know there are national issues but Wolverhampton have and are coping really well and I think it's down to the staff actually we have because they're like David said we've taken the initiative not we sorry they have taken the initiative and you know hit the ground running so that needs to be recorded really because without them we would be in in a difficult position if I can put it that way thank you Laura thank you I couldn't agree more council just well if we could have that miniature please Donna that'd be great are there any more questions Councillor Croft thank you chair through you chair do you know when the postal vote dispatch dates will be please so we have just been finalizing our postal vote data with Warsaw that has all been signed off and batch one is predicted to go out around the 13th so probably landing with our residents from around the 14th of June and there will be a second dispatch date which I don't know off the top of my head now but I can make sure that shared with you in the council of weeklies email tomorrow but it will probably be around the 20th of June I'd say so when we've already started counting what's already been out from around the 14th but I'll make sure those dates are shared with you in the email tomorrow is that okay thank you thank you Laura are there any more questions or comments from the panel no okay then the report is before you all those in favour say aye those against say no that is carried okay Laura you could now you can go now thank you very much thank you okay that brings me to item five on the agenda pack report on page seven of your agenda pack and David if you'd like to thanks fine thanks very much chair so I'm just very briefly introduced it then hand over to Sergei and Michelle who then go through detail if that's okay so the I know that the members of the government's and ethics committee I'm very much keen to see that the Constitution is kept updated and that's exactly the reason here so it always say it's a bit like the painting of the fourth bridge as soon as you think you've finished you've got to do a bit more so it's it's really important that you know ease kept updated and then that will go through to for council it would have gone to the meeting on the 26th of June but obviously in the light of the general election bit of a realignment of works it's the same people who work on the Democratic services as on the election but the business for that meeting will be going to the 17th of July so subject to to your views and your comments and that will then go to the 17th July so I'll hand over to Sergei thank you sir thank you chair through yourself and so the report before you we have two appendices and Michelle will go through appendix one which is the schema delegation changes that have been proposed and you'll see a paragraph 3.2 the rationale and what was the intention sitting behind the the review of the schema delegations and one point to note is that the changes have been made in order to make the schema delegations far more accessible and understandable the office of powers that were contained within the previous scheme or the current scheme remain the same and so the proposals before you today don't change the actual powers that have been granted to two officers what we have done is effectively changed the the wording the formatting focus more so on functions taken a lot more of the legislative references out because legislation changes quite frequently as you know and the schema delegation can then appear out of date very quickly so a balance a far better balance has been struck between ensuring that there's clarity with regards to the officer delegations in terms of functions where necessary powers and legislative references need to be included that has been included and hopefully that is easier for officers to understand and more confidence in the scheme of delegation means that there's more confidence in decision-making but also it also means that members and committees are able to also be clear in terms of the powers that have been exercised by officers and when they're holding officers to account they have a far more user-friendly schema delegation to refer to so with that such hand over to Michelle who can walk you through the more substantive details of the scheme thank you thank you very much Michelle if you'd like to thank you chair the members haven't been presented with a copy of the current scheme because it would be redlined this dispersion represents a complete change in particular and of note is the new general interpretation principles sections and and a diagram to help officers interpreted imply the delegations which I know is much needed there's also a new table showing delegations that directors have in common to avoid repetition there is particular focus on the object updated directors tables to ensure that they reflected what happens in practice and that the descriptions of the directors powers moved at the same pace as the council because they were very out of date there's also four new schedules within the delegations relating to HR licensing regulatory and planning which means that if you are not looking for a power within those areas you don't need to consider those parts which massively reduce reduces the length of the document and therefore makes it more usable or user-friendly there was a long period of consultation with key directors heads of service and super users those teams who make use of delegations frequently this began in 2022 and as recently concluded and we had final sign-off from everyone including responses from the legal team and governance team confirming there that they were happy with the changes implementation of the changes will be part of a wider rollout or of skills training around delegations and decision-making powers generally in relation to appendix 2 to speak about this surgery yeah okay we have two minor changes here in relation to motion motions and questions to simply bring forward the deadline for submission by one day to make sure that there is enough time to provide answers and to reduce the risk of rollover to next meeting item 3 is in relation to clarification change to the budget procedure this has already been agreed but it just needed changing in writing so that only the principal speeches of the leader were intended not to be time limited and finally we have in relation to the cabinet resources panel the leader has decided that the responsibility its responsibility should be undertaken by cabinet so all references to the cabinet resources panel can be removed from the Constitution so there's four items there under appendix 2 I'm happy to take questions on either item are there any questions just just one on the Constitution Michelle if one of the directors is away on holiday or anything like that right so there were responsibilities delegation of responsibilities do we have a system I'm sure we do a substitute is that covered in the in the new setup yes it does if in the absence of any director the the power to make a decision can go in a number of directions it can go sideways up ways or downwards and each director is responsible for ensuring they have a sub scheme of delegations to to make sure that other offices and members know where they can go for an answer so that the process doesn't stop in the absence of a single person okay I'll move the recommendations I will come to you I'll move the recommendations I've got a seconder yeah okay I'll call on counselors who wish to speak counselor I've noticed that we've got several directors where there seems to be an overlap we've got a director of city development which is economic we've got a director of city economy economic we've got an executive director of the economy which is also economic and I do wonder whether the director of transformation had and I recognize that it's not a filled post of present but is the title of that accurate when I understand that from the description this is that there appears to be a great deal of digital technology involved can I bring David in please Michelle at this yes David so something certainly we will be reviewing Councillor Thompson to actually make sure it's accurate the titles of directors will at times need to change and I would generally consider that to be obviously it's got to be right and actually the the the level of senior management is a discussion for council and other places and and the budgets in terms of the titles here in terms of the delegation who's got power to do what where those change or they get removed then we would I would generally expect to use the power that I've got subject to liaison with the leaders of both groups to actually move those and take those titles out and just tidy it up so in terms of actually the substantive question that's probably a question for another panel in terms of actually do we need that those directors in those different areas which I think is probably where you're getting to but the just to give you assurance in terms of the Constitution I'll always make sure we just tied it up and keep it keep it accurate so that we are acting lawfully which is ultimately what the Constitution is about I have no doubt that it'll be lawful I could hardly believe David that you'd do anything else however we know we have got according to BBC News Midlands to do with the rise in the ticket price with the wolves games that we have the second highest adult unemployment in the country is this and last this actually perhaps as a rhetorical question is this a sign that Wolverhampton does have a deep deep rooted problem with regard to unemployment and therefore there is an effort in every way possible putting directors in but I do wonder whether the effort should be put at the bottom end with services from the council and support for the local economy and business and I take your point that this may be indeed a subject for other panels and I hope it will be taken up by other panels so I find it interesting that these titles have been given and I do think there is frankly an overlap that is taking place and reading the descriptions you can see that overlap is there thank you thank you thank you councillor David you want to come in yep so I'm just gonna say points no to councillor Thompson and I'll have conversation about where that can be just with you about where that can be discussed rather than here because it wouldn't be here but be someone else okay thank you for that um did you want to come in okay councillor thank you thank you chair and really quick one and it might be a question for another panel or maybe you could tidy this up for me really quickly I've I've read the whole report I was really interested on page 24.2 24.1 under director of children's services delegation of roles it all seems quite logical the list of roles there until I got to cemeteries and crematoria and I was just wondering if you could explain to me please why in the middle of youth justice yeah youth services and children's services we have that is it has it always been this case or is it that the director then delegates and I'm just trying to work out why it doesn't sit with public health if only to say that the director has had a look at that list and has confirmed that's within her remit so I'm not quite sure where it was originally or or how it came to her if it's if it's a new function but there are a number of pockets of that type of area that doesn't seem to sit anywhere frankly and they have to sit somewhere so presumably directors have agreed that between themselves David Thank You Michelle David it's really good spot and this is why we have a committee that looks at it because I think that that should be going under resident services so we will make that that tweak because I think that that's it that that needs that is changing thank you other catch Thompson yes I agree the point it does seem to be an anomaly with regard to where it's sitting in this in this table but the mention of resident services is an interesting one in itself that is an enormous portfolio of responsibilities for that particular director I'm sure we would all agree I do wonder whether that is actually appropriate because it is very very top-heavy it seems with regard to the number of responsibilities that's in that particular a directorship Thank You councillor David so so on that one we've had those discussions councillor Thompson and that's part of the reason that there's been a bit of a change around in terms of my responsibility so that I'm now overseeing that particular director to give some additional support and indeed we're also putting in place additional support a lower level for that particular director because those are a lot of the services that matter the most to our residents so you know they're things like our highways including potholes including trees fly tipping all of those sort of you know that those general services collection of the bins etc so understood and it's something that working really closely to make sure that we've got a really clear approach and support for that particular director so the point is the point the point is definitely underway thank you David um on page 15 20.5 to provide services to other council local authorities and organisations have we always done that and who were the local authorities that we provide the service for please I'm sorry could you pick what was that point five page 15 and it's 20.6 20.6 thank you no sorry 20.5 to provide services to other local authorities and organisations have we always done that have we always provided a service to other local authorities and if so what local authorities do we provide the service for what services please if you wouldn't mind chair I know that this is not a new power it it's been in there for some time it's so I've transferred that over but certainly it is it in my experience it is it is normal for local authorities to provide services to each other it could be various on various matters David might be able to expand more on that so so that's something that we've always yeah okay thank you David okay that's in every I would say that's in every single local authorities constitution so um indeed yeah that that's sort of like um helping each other other local authorities is something which is in the spirit of local authorities it works really well so um at times a good example and this has had specific approval we currently have a a service that we host with adoption at heart which is the adoption service across the four black country authorities which has been really really positive but at times we have provided tracy has provided um legal services to other authorities on child care matters where they've needed specific assistance which has then been paid back by that other authority for um tracy's time um obviously making sure it doesn't have a damage to the service we provide to our residents in our city but at times it actually we're better placed to do that than be be another law firm or someone else because actually we understand how that works and we're able to just pick up we may well be doing that already on that bit of work and then we can get paid so we we used that as well on the street racing cases we did recently for um where we took the street racing injunction all the way to the supreme court and one um where we've been providing support for dudley walsall and sandwell and they've in turn been paying us for for doing that work for them because we've been doing it jointly i think just one moment i think it was because of birmingham really i was sort of thinking you know they they were really struggling and what would we be doing to support them in terms of our services um i don't know i mean would we be doing that anyway potentially the law does provide that uh for councils to support each other but this is setting out uh within the delegations that it is the responsibility or rather each director has the power to enter into discussion around that there may be other rules that are applied depending on the circumstances of that exchange of information or services but um yes it certainly isn't is available and and similarly as davis said it's it's common to have this in constitution so wolf hampton does get the benefit of it as well if it was ever in need okay thank you council jasper yeah thanks just to uh confirm what david and michelle have said we've always had it in the past and other examples of the the licensing if you recall and the waste as well so it's not a new thing but it's actually good because uh you know we can help our neighboring authorities and other organizations as well and also there's other services uh in regard to education social services as well which local authorities work on so that that's nothing new and and i'm sure if you read this report line by line there will be minor issues which need to be resolved but that's that that's the whole point of having a meeting and and uh having the ability to make changes as and when but the delegation to david and the other offices is there so i'm sure they will make the minor changes but we need to get cracking on on on having this implemented uh and i have to say it's uh it it's a lot of hard work it's very complex it's not easy and then you always pick up mistakes uh when we had the first draft i think up there was quite a few uh um capital letters uh in the wrong place and so on but that's the whole point of going through the exercise so you know well done to the officers it it's very easy to read um but yeah let's let's go ahead and uh make all the the changes necessary well i think for the benefit of new members it is you know it's important to get the facts out isn't it so um yeah david thank you so just just wanted to um i think counselor counselor um just by mixing an important point massive thank you to i should have said earlier sorry uh to michelle and surjit for their hard work on this because it is the devil's own job actually doing the constitution i've been drafted them before myself that it's a really really hard job and with your agreement chair i would like just just to make that um tweak for the crematoria exception to move over to to to john roseblades but it you know to be honest um it i'm really really pleased with the approach we've got here i think it is a really good document and i think it is one that um massive thanks go to particularly to michelle but also to surjit yep i agree with that david thank you okay the report is before you there aren't any more questions or comments i'm assuming no okay the report is before you all those in favor say aye those again say no that is carried thank you next item on the agenda is item six i call on david to introduce the forward plan 2024 2025 the report is on page 83 of your agenda pack thank you david thanks very much chair so um laura uh guitars would have presented this but obviously laura is currently i'm just doing as a work including the accepting the nomination of candidates for general election so i'll just cover this so um obviously we've we're going through the 6th of june meeting the the um meeting there was going to be a meeting on the 11th of july because of the um uh the the moving chairs in relation to the meetings post election because this me that meeting was due to take place on the 4th of july it is likely now to have that business deferred to the september meeting i think it will probably mean that we'll have an additional meeting put in later in the year we'll be able to confirm that later on in the year those two items the webcasting statistics and the dbs compliance aren't time critical so my advice is that they can go to the september meeting we just have that september meeting the challenges because of the general election um we've got a little bit of bottleneck of meetings so what we're trying to do is is not have a situation where the democratic staff who have been working flat out on the general then come into literally a meeting every single night and us and us counselors importantly every single night for the run up to the july so we still have we have the meetings that need to take place in july but we don't have it um being absolutely crazy and if there is business that can move to september then it will and i think that that is one that can in my view chair with my advice we've then got quite a lot on for the meeting in september which is the ombudsman annual report the annual report on information governance which which is done by myself and anna um the evaluation of the may elections uh may and july elections that may go to october just because the the the because obviously um the we'll do it's a joint report in relation to the general and the local um and indeed as may the the um the other elections reports there but also importantly there'll be a report on uh the ceu and counselor support and counselor casework and then uh council development program in october along with the code of conduct annual report and then january we've got some additional reports in relation to uh canvas and progress the other one which i would um i will be adding in um is um the annual report on linked bodies which i'd also like to do which are those one which has been been well received um we generally do that around uh around the january time either late late autumn or january uh and then we've got the um preparations for the new municipal year which takes place from february through to march but i'm very pleased to say um we don't have any preparations for an election i hope in 2025 because we have a fallow year uh which um which is nice okay and that's uh before you but as always chair the whole idea is that this is is um the members meeting and if there are any items that the members want to add to add on then we're really keen for any suggestions or recommendations um i move the recommendations have i got a seconder please thank you very much is there any councillors that's got questions comments or would like to speak nothing okay the report is before you all those in favor say aye those against say no and that is carried right that brings us to the end of the the meeting and the business thank you for every thank you everyone for your contributions if you're going home have a safe journey whole thank you very much