Statutory Licensing Sub-Committee - Thursday, 9th May, 2024 10.30 am
May 9, 2024 View on council website Watch video of meetingTranscript
Good morning everybody and welcome to this licensing subcommittee hearing. My name is Councillor Zee Russell and I chair the statutory licensing committee and I shall be chairing today. Before we commence with the hearings procedures, just need to advise you that today's meeting will be broad live via our internet website and members of the public may record and take photos except for where there are confidential items. Just a few housekeeping rules, we're not expecting a fire alarm but if one does sound, we'll ask you to go to the front of the building on the piazza and assemble there. The toilets can be found next to the lift on the right and if I could just ask everyone to turn their mobile phones on to soil and as we don't want any interruptions during the meeting. I will now call on my fellow subcommittee members to introduce themselves. Good morning all, I'm Councillor Gail Waldman, member of the licensing subcommittee. Good morning, Councillor JOHNSTON Cross member of the subcommittee. Thank you both. I will now ask our committee clerk to read out the names of everyone here and if you could just introduce yourself so it gives us an idea of who's who. Over to you, Jacob. Thanks Chair. So we have the applicant through review who's trained standards. Good morning, Diane Slapp from Trade Standards Tobacco Control Officer. Then we have the premises licence holder, if you'd just like to introduce yourselves. Vimli Deving, Bangar. Michael Bangar. Thank you and then we've got responsible authorities, we've got the licence and authority. Good morning, Bhavinda Meekar, section leader acting on behalf of the licence and authority as a responsible authority. Vice-Mindlands, please. Good morning, Bell Lehigh from West Midlands Place Licence and Department. And public health. Good morning, Alina Bauer, public health. And then we have Joshua Queensborough. Good morning, Joshua Queensborough, licence and then compliance officer, City Wolverhampton Council. Thank you. Thank you. Good morning, my name is Rhona St-Pebwhar. I'm Schlister, I'm the good visor to the committee. I'm Jacob Stokes, Democratic Services Officer and I'll be meeting this meeting today. Thank you, chair. Thank you, Jacob. We're now at the gender item 1, are there any apologies for absence? Non-received, chair. Item 2, Councillors, do you have any decorations of interest? None, chair. None, chair. None, chair. And I have none. Today we should be following the review here in procedure that is set out before you and for information we're at part 3. Can I confirm with our committee clerk that everyone has been sent a copy of the procedure? They have, chair. And does everybody understand that procedure? Do you guys understand the procedure? Yeah. Thank you. Just to make it where it's not a court of law, witnesses will not take us or anything like that, but the subcommittee is just trying to establish what's happened and how we can get a resolution to that. So we may ask a couple of questions of yourself and any of the officers in the room as well. Although this is a public meeting, only those who have made relevant representations can actually speak. Questions will only be allowed to clarify and there will be no back and forth arguments. We're here today because an important decision needs to be made. So we need to hear all the evidence and people's views in a common civil manner. I'll ask everyone to maintain polite behaviour and any comment should be made through me, the chair, not directly to the person talking to you. I will not permit back and forth arguments and anyone who acts in a disruptive manner will be asked to leave. We're now at 0.6 on the procedure and I'll shall ask the officer from licensing to outline the report. Through you, chair, the statutory licensing subcommittee are here today to consider an application for a review of a premises license and in respect to three tonnes news, 512 Stafford Road, Wolverhampton, WV 1068AN. An application was received from trading standards on the 21st of March 2024 for a review of a premises license and is in relation to the prevention of crime and disorder and protection of children from harm licensing objectives. The current premises license is attached to Appendix 1. The premises is located within the Bushbury North Ward and a location plan is attached to Appendix 2. The application was properly made and all statutory requirements have been complied with by the licensing authority. A copy of the review application is attached to Appendix 3. The presentations have been received from public health, the licensing authority and West Midlands Police. Copies of these representations can be found at appendices four to six respectively. Trading standards have also provided additional information. This can be found at appendices seven to ten respectively. The application is for a review of a premises license and is before the subcommittee for consideration. Thank you, chair. Thank you. Can I confirm with our committee clerk that a copy of the report and supplementary paper have been sent out to all parties in advance of the meeting? It has to. Thank you. Just to you guys, I don't see you having any of the paperwork, have you received it and read through it? Oh, sorry. It's hiding behind there so I didn't see. She's making sure you've got everything. Trading standards, can you confirm that that is a report readout is accurate? I can, chair. Thank you. Thank you. We're now at point seven of the procedure where the applicant is to present their case in form. Trading standards, please present your case to the subcommittee. Through you, chair. The traded standards department has responsible authority status under the license in Act 2003. Bill Madevie Bangor is the holder of the premises license. 4512 Stafford Road Hall of Hampton. She's also the designated premises supervisor and her personal license was issued by all the Hampton City Council. Threetons news, currently uses Bangor stores as a trading name. Over a number of years, the shoppers appear to have used various trading names, which are listed on page 14 of our application. Trading standards records also show that intelligence has been received and actions have been logged in relation to contravening trading standards law practices at the premises. Since 2013. On January 2019, we received intelligence of illicit tobacco being sold at Bangor stores. In July 2020, we received intelligence via West Midlands police with a visit that they had done that the shop owner or DPS, Bill Madevie Bangor, found she did not know how to operate the shop CCTV system and the CCTV was switched off and this was in convention of the premises license conditions. Trading standards intelligence has been received at counterfeit cigarettes were in the shop. We have attempted underage sales and numerous times, but they have passed that and advisory letters have been sent to Mrs. Bangor. We have had complaints in 2021 from a local school that their pupils were purchasing vapes and age restricted product from Bangor stores. Into December 2021, trading standards received a complaint via citizens advice from a concerned parent who alleged that their 15 year old child was purchasing vapes from Bangor stores. It was also alleged that cigarettes and alcohol were being sold to underage children. In 2022, a sale of a magic bar e-cigarette and a packet of illicit Marlborough cigarettes was purchased by a major tobacco manufacturer on a test purchase. In response to that, trading standards did hold discussions with the business about illicit vapes and underage sales and verbal advice was given. In November 22, another complaint was received about a 15 year old teenager regularly purchasing vapes from the shop store. On the 5th of March, we received intelligence again that illegal cigarettes and other tobacco products were being stored and sold from the shop. Bangor stores was included as part of an inspection exercise by trading standards on the 14th of March 2024. During the inspection, we found over a thousand illegal cigarettes, nine pouches of illegal hand rolling tobacco and 13 oversized vapes concealed in the store underneath birthday cards. Illegal cigarettes, patches of hand rolling tobacco were also found hidden in a drawer in the drawer of a tail on the counter. The tobacco products are not allowed to be sold in the UK because they had foreign language warnings or not in the permitted plane packaging as required in the UK. So they were likely to have been smuggled into this country and if that is an offence under the licensing act. Vapes found in the premises appear to have a nicotine tank larger than permitted in the UK. The labelling on the vape stated they range from 9,000 to 15,000 puffs. This is likely to exceed the permitted 2 milliliter tank capacity, which is currently equivalent to about 600 puffs. These items are not allowed in the UK and again we believe they might have been smuggled in. The keeping of smooth goods, as I've just said, is an offence. When asked about the illegal products that were found hidden in the shop, Mrs Bangor told officers my son bought the stuff. Illegal cigarettes and vapes were all bagged up and taken away by trading standards. It is a mandatory condition under the licensing act that an age verification policy is operated. Complaints received by trading standards suggest that Bangor stores has failed to adhere to such a policy. It is a criminal offence under the nicotine inhaling products age of sale and proxy purchasing regulations to sell nicotine inhaling products known as e-cigarettes to people under 18. Comments received suggest that the shop has been making such sales and the following contraventions were also found at the premises. The tobacco gantry was broken leaving tobacco products on open display. This is also an offence under regulations in the UK. There was no licence summary on display. A failure to display the licence summary is a criminal offence under section 57 of the Licensing Act. As the premises licence holder, Bimla Devi Bangor has engaged in activities which have abreached the licensing objectives, namely the prevention of crime and disorder and the protection of children from harm. The evidence in this review over an extended period of time highlights continued failures by the shop to comply with the licencing objectives. The home office has published guidelines under the Licensing Act at section 182 with the following paragraphs being particularly relevant. The protection of children from harm includes the protection of children from moral, psychological and physical harm. It also believes that it is completely unacceptable to sell alcohol to children. There is certain criminal activity which might arise in connection with licence premises which should be treated particularly seriously which includes the use of the premises for the illegal purchase and consumption of alcohol by minors. And the guidance goes on to say where a views re-rise and the licencing authority determines that the crime prevention objectives have been undermined through the premises being used to further crimes, it is expected that suspension or revocation of the licence even in the first instance should be seriously considered. With regards to vapes, regulations set a minimum standard for safety and equality of all cigarettes and refill containers. This ensures it also ensures information provided to consumers or so that they can make informed choices about the products they are buying. It promotes an environment that protects children from starting to use these products. On January 2024, the government announced that disposable vapes will be banned in the UK as part of government plans to tackle the rise in youth vaping and protect children's health. Information on the UK of website states that measures cum as part of a government's response to their consultation on smoking and vaping which was launched in October 2023. And figures show that the number of children using vapes in the past three years has tripled. Amongst youth amongst younger children is also rising with 9% of 11 to 15 year old now using vapes. The long term health impacts of vaping are unknown and nicotine contained within them can be highly addictive with withdrawal sometimes causing anxiety, trouble concentrating and headaches. The sale of illegal tobacco makes it easier for children and young people to start smoking because they sold at pocket money prices and the children get addicted at a young age. And such availability has been so cheap it does make it hard for people to quit smoking. Trading standards recommend that licensing subcommittee considers a suspension of the premises licence for three months to allow for staff training and the addition of robust conditions to the premises licence. In particular the addition of a licence condition that three tons news also known as banger stores will sign up to a responsible retailer scheme of an equivalent standard to the city of Wolverhampton Council trading standards responsible retailer scheme before the suspension lapses and any other matters as the subcommittee sees fit. Thank you Chair. Thank you. Councillors do you have any questions? Councillor Walsman? No questions Chair? Councillor Croft. No questions Chair? Just one from me regarding obviously the lawy since I had already had that question written down and it wasn't displayed was there any evidence of channel challenge 25 in the booklet was that looked at? I don't think so, I don't think so, I just see now how the breach is lost that's the only question for myself, thank you. The lawy since in hold, do you have any questions for trading standards? Yes, I would. Accusations be made that we've been selling underage alcohol, when was art? We've had repeated complaints since 2013. Yeah, that was complaints but we have not actually sold to underage because we know what the alcohol age is so we haven't done that all like you said the gallantry man came and we sold and abuse, we've done any abuse to anybody? Where is the proof that we know what the lawy since is as a lawy since we know the age and what to do and how to do it? All I can say is I've received new complaints. Well that's complaints you've received but not actually we sold, you know. We have attempted test purchases and they have passed but complaints keep coming in and I'm not saying it's common for this shop but shops are, some shops have been known to only sell to the people they know if they're underage. That's not what you were saying, that we did sell but we have not sold anything like that. Can I just stop you, this is a back and forth argument, if you look in your pack on page 14. No, I'm not arguing, I'm just giving my, you've already said it once, and so I just sound like we haven't done it, but we're only going on the intelligence that's been received and it's all in your pack on page 14, all the dates. As I said the one was a tobacco company that actually noticed what you were saying. We haven't sold anything like that to a child, you know, we know. Now that's on intelligence like any shop. What does that mean? Basically somebody may have been in there that knows somebody, a child that has actually purchased from you. We can only go on what's being put in if you understand all that. It's not proof but at the end of the day it's built up a picture and so hence the trading standards are coming in on the test purchases. In the right as well, love because we know what the ages are and how to do it and not to do. But at the end of the day, the bottom line is they came into your shop and you had illegal items there. That is the bottom line and the intelligence supports that, not that you're selling it but you have got illegal items on there. We'll continue now on side but I've talked about both sides, there's no evidence but we have to go on with what intelligence we have as well and that builds up a picture of the shop. Westmillan's placed, do you have any questions for the applicant? No Chair. Public Health, do you have any questions for the applicant? No questions Chair. Losses and authority, do you have any questions for the applicant? No thank you Chair. Committee's legal advisor, do you have any questions for trading standards or any legal points which we might be aware of? No Chair. We're now part eight of the procedure where the premises license holder will make their representations to the subcommittee that's down to you guys now, okay. It's down to you to present your case to the license subcommittee, that's why I stopped you there because we were here from you now, you see, that's fine, so you've got the floor now to address us on what's gone on and how you want to represent yourselves to us. Yeah, I would like to say that as I've been in the licensees, I know as a license what and who to sell, you know, we have not been selling to underage kids. We know as a licensee, what age and how it works. Is that what you want to add? Do you want to add anything, sir? We've been doing the shop license for ages, but on all the rights obviously I've brought these, I'm not saying I'm not brought them, obviously the lady come here, I brought them not my mum off a customer, he comes in my shop, I didn't know, she'd been lost at times trading standard, she'd never found nothing before. That was only one time we bought them, we haven't bought them before. I'm not denying it, but yeah, there was a intro. Okay, Councillors, do you have any questions? Yes, Radio Chair, have you both had any training at all? Going on Thursday to do the course. Could you repeat that please? Going on Thursday to do the course, next week, Thursday. Okay, so you've had now training? Yeah, I've had training before. You've had training? Yeah, the luxury reps have been in, every rep's been in all the time, we've always passed. Okay, thank you very much. Councillor Cross, do you have any questions? No other questions, thanks, Chair. I just have one, you've just said you've had training, so you've bought things from a man that's turned up in your shop, that's not a reputable dealer, and you've purchased off them, did nothing in your mind strike you, that's a bit weird. No, because obviously it was only a little bit of stuff, and I was going to take it on for myself, personal use. That's a lot of personal use, that's all I can say. Yeah, you know, at the end of the day, they're in your shop, you jeopardize your expensive. You jeopardize in your mum's livelihood, because it's her shop, and that's without negating the fact that, you know, the duty free, that you've not paid on it as well. That's fraud, whichever way you want to look at it, because you've not paid towards HMRC as well. I'm not just the only shop you do, there's loads of shops out there. You know, this is what we do, you know, but that's not an excuse, is it really? We didn't know that, we didn't know that, that we couldn't sell these, you know, so we went to, bought them if we didn't know, because my husband, he used to do all the buy-in, and he passed away, so we were left with news, something new to do, you know, we didn't know. I know you were aware of the channel in '24, is it? I didn't? I'm aware of the challenge '24 scheme. What is that? Challenge. It's on your license. Yeah, the age. Yes, I know. It's on your license. Yeah, the age. You know, and is your son going to register to be a DPS then? I'll take it. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That's all the questions from me. Thank you. Trading standards, do you have any questions for the premises license holder? Yeah, thank you, Chair. I'm just a bit concerned that you said you didn't know that this was all illegal, but yet every day we read in the news and we have articles coming up that what the actual, you know, amount of a vape should be or whatever, and you said you bought it for personal use, but I can't understand that you weren't aware when you were buying this stuff. And it was, I believe, a large amount of stuff, not just a small amount of stuff. It wasn't a large amount of stuff, it was only a little bit. I mean, looking at the exhibits, there's quite a few vapes. There's about nine, ten vapes there. Okay. All the other vapes, we are on the counter, they were all 600, both from the cash and carry. So if you wasn't aware that this was illegal, yeah, why were they hidden? Under the call. Because I left them in the, so I was going to take them home, but I had to go to hospital. On the day they came. Okay. Okay, Chair. Thank you. Public health, do you have any questions to ask the premises license holder? No further questions, Chair. License and authority, do you have any questions to ask the premises license holder? Nothing, Chair. Committee's legal advisor, do you have any questions for the premise license holder or any legal points that we should be made aware of at this stage? Sorry, really, just one thing. I know what you said, but I just need to emphasize that, do you, do you, do you understand everything that the applicant, the trading standards that says has been going on at the other premises? Yeah. Because I'm conscious of the fact that you have not just really dealt with a lot of what the applicant is saying. Do you understand what I'm trying to say? Yeah. Okay. All I'm saying is obviously trading standards have set out a number of things that have been happening on various dates, very clearly, and you haven't truly addressed most of this. Yeah, but there's no evidence or people can make complaints every day. That's fine. As long as, as long as, as long as that's all you have. If that's how selling drugs that's doing that, doing that, but I've got proof of doing anything. Okay. I'm just making sure because obviously today's hearing is for the committee to review your license, and there are a number of options that the committee can make in relation to your current license. One of them actually is to revoke your license completely. Now, you need to understand that an application has been made by trading standards who set out quite a lot of detail about intelligence and what's been happening. You have an opportunity to go through all of these and say something about what they're saying. Hold on a second. If all you want to say is what you've said, that's fine, and that's what the committee will consider, but you do have an opportunity, and this is your opportunity to actually address everything that has been said in the application today. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, um, they all made the accusation, but as on the premise, we have, we know how we were being working, you know, so that's all I've got to say, but that's our livelihood. If you revoke our license, I mean, I'm not saying that. I'm not saying the committee is going to revoke your license. I'm saying that one of the options the committee has is to modify your conditions, to change that also to revoke your license. So your license could be taken away from you today because of what we heard today. So all I'm saying is that before the committee makes that decision, yeah, you have an opportunity to answer and deal with all the things that you've heard trading standards have said. Now I'm conscious of the fact that you haven't really done that this morning. Well, we did bring a solicitor, but that was the wrong one, and he was going to be helping us, but as whatever question you want to ask, I'm willing to answer. And for the DPS, the lady was saying that I didn't display because the Wolverhampton City Council never sent to me, I told you the other day, love when I came to see you. Remember, but I have a ploy, so they still haven't sent a paid-for return everything. That was, was it a week ago, two weeks ago, and I haven't still received it. So, you know, why isn't being sent if I paid for it? Now, can we have a response, have you got a response to that at all, Don? Mrs Banger came to see me end of March, and it turned out that the address that was on her premises license wasn't her real address, wasn't her home address. So we assumed, or I assumed, that maybe it still was sent to her address, and I asked you to amend it. I did amend it, but they still didn't send me anything, so that's not my fault that it was in display. Was it? I can't comment on that, because I don't work for that part. Was the Wolverhampton City Council never sent to you? I paid, I told the young man over there, sitting next to you, I paid, did you take my payment? Yes. You took my payment last year, remember, and nobody sent me the display thing, so where is it, why wasn't it sent? So the application for a premises license, hold a change of address, and to change premises name. I was submitted a few weeks ago, and was posted out to the applicant. And last year, I was told, I came, when the lady came to see me, why isn't it displayed? I came the same day to come to the City of Wolverhampton to tell him, but nothing was done. I paid the money, nothing was, why? The license has been posted out, as of last week, since the most recent applications to do so. But why wasn't it done last year, when I paid for it, they took the payment straight away from me. It just brings Diane, she's indicated, she's not speaking. The address, your address on your license wasn't the correct address. Yeah, because I left there, I did tell last time I came, I said that was not my address, but they still are paid for it, and nothing was done. So it's not my fault, is it? Yeah, I'll just correct you there, at the end of the day the business is yours, if that was my business, the address would be me to be banging on their door if I paid for it. I did, Carla, I did. Did it once or twice by saying so, at the end of the day, if that's my business, I'd be banging on their door. I paid for it right then, and then I paid for it, but you've not received it. No. If I hadn't received it, it had been up here every day until I got it. Well, I was writing, you know, last year. You're the DPS, the license is your name. I understand. So you're selling cigarettes without that being there, that's your livelihood. I would put everything in place for my livelihood. That's all I'm going to leave that matter. I was just waiting for it, love it. As I say, it's your business, my business, believe me, I'd be up here every day, because it's in your interests, you know, okay, I understand where you're coming from with what you're saying, but when it's your own business, I'd be there banging that drum every day. Okay, then we're going to move on now, because it's just going to go back and forth. We're now at point nine of the procedure where the responsible authorities are to make their representations, and we will start with West Midlands Police if you could make your representation to the committee. Through you, Chair, West Midlands Police are in full support of the premises license review for three tons, also known as Banger Stores, 512 Stafford Road, Wolverhampton following the training standards visit. The information provided in the agenda packs of the items such as Vapes and illegal cigarettes found on this licensed premises cause significant concern to West Midlands Police. West Midlands Police expects all individuals and businesses who hold a premises license to do so responsibly and uphold all four of their licenses and objectives. On the 6th of July 2020, the premises license holder, Bemla Devi Banger, who is also the DPS, was present on the day of a visit to the store by trading standards and officers and police officers. As mentioned in the review application, police officers held a discussion with Bemla regarding CCTV in relation to an investigation and were informed that she did not know how to operate this. Also when told by the DPS to check for themselves to view, they found that the system was switched off. This was in contravention of the premises license condition again. During this time, Bemla Devi informed officers that she was not aware of the shops license in conditions. The premises license holder, DPS, should act in a responsible manner when trusted to all cell age restricted goods and the running of their premises, yet this was not the case. Failure to display the license summary is a criminal offence under Section 57(4) of the license in Act 2003. The evidence provided by trading standards clearly shows a total disregard for the prevention of crime and disorder and public safety. On the 13th of October 2021, Intel was received by trading standard officers that under age local school pupils were being able to purchase age restricted products from Banger stores, which has then led to a visit. This is not the level of standards West Midlands police expects of a premises license holder where age restricted goods are being sold. As the premises license holder, Bemla Devi has engaged in activating her abreached the license objective, namely the prevention of crime and disorder and the protection of children from harm. Trading standards note in their review application that since 2013, this store has been known to trading standards with actions logged against them. This application demonstrates the long-standard train and standards officers have completed with the premises and premises license holder. If the committee's decision is that the premises should retain their license, then a robust set of conditions and suspension of license for three months should be given. Conditions for the committee to consider are Challenge 25, CCTV made and kept running at all times for when this is required by responsible authorities within 24 hours in all areas members of the public have access to where money is exchanged and where age restricted goods are stored. Refusal logs, incident logs and a good condition to ensure at least one member of staff is trained to download footage and work the CCTV in accordance with licensing conditions, where suspension of the license should be in place until conditions that are due to. If this option is not accepted by the committee, then revocation of the license should be considered. Thank you, Chair. Thank you. Councillors, do you have any questions for Westminster, please? Councillor Wahlmann. No question, Chair. Councillor Croft. No questions, Chair. And I have none. Trading standards, do you have any questions for Westminster, please? No, thank you, Chair. This license, hold, do you have any questions for Westminster, please? You said that the CCTV camera is not working, it's working every day, so whoever came that day said it's not working, have they got approved, because we always get trouble at the shop, we're going to switch it off, and obviously my mum was there that day, should or not use it, I use it and obviously that CCTV camera box is always working, we had to get a new one because it only recorded up for 20 days and said it needs to be 30 days. That was because of the incident, what happened outside the premises, outside the shop, when the police came to the ID? Okay, this was July 2020, your mother confirmed to the officers she wasn't able to use it as a DPS, she should be aware how to use this, also she told them to go to the back, because it's in their statements. When they went to the back, the TV was switched off. In the TV was? No, I believe that the CCTV wasn't... The shop was continuously on, they told me to rewind it, I said I don't know how to rewind it, and they said that I don't know about the licensing, what to do, of course, or do you know who said that? But you obviously admitted to this. No, I didn't. No, I didn't. In their statements there. No, I didn't. I just told them that I don't know how to rewind it, if you know how to rewind it, you can go and have a look, do it yourself, that's what I said. Yeah. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, this is back and forth again. No, I'm not saying that. I just want to give my point as well. Yeah, you do your point. It's not fair though. No, but officers aren't allowed, they have to put it down in the statements. Yeah, we understand, but it's not fair though, you know, it's not fair, but it has to be made and not proved. If I could finish, please, part of your license is knowing how to use the CCTV. You are the DPS. Yeah, but I... Not you son, you are the DPS. I don't know, I don't know, technology love. And then it shouldn't be, you know, you shouldn't be a license holder then, should you? Well, I've been a license holder for so long, you know. Obviously, you're not reading what's in your license then, because actually, states... Yeah, but new technology, I don't know. Well, then I don't think you fit in proper to hold a license then, because you're not doing regulations or actually on the license you're signing for and applying for. Yeah, but that's the hard drive, is something new, I've never done that in my life. But it's the end of the day, it's on there, you've signed up to that license. Yeah, I understand what you're saying. Do you understand that's the law? Yeah. And if you can't do that, then you shouldn't be running the license. But that's nothing to do with that. Of course it is. If you... If you... I didn't know how to use it, that's what I'm saying. If you want to look at your license again and have a look in the actual CCTV, you've signed for that. I'm going to leave it there, because we can argue all down, I'm not willing to. No, no, no, I'm just trying to give my point of view that I don't know how to use it. But then don't apply for a license then. It's quite simple. We're going to go through the conditions on that license, which states CCTV. I will go through the conditions of the license, learn how to do it. Yes, that was the answer I was looking for. Okay. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Licensing authority, do you have any questions for public health? Have I jumped? I've jumped. I've gone off. I'm sorry. Licensing authority. No, thank you, Chair. It is legal advice. Do you have any questions for public health or any legal points we should be made aware of at this stage? No, Chair. It's Westmill. Oh, Westmillan's police. Sorry. Okay. Next, responsible authority is the license and authority. Please make your representations. Thank you and through you, Chair. The license authority as a responsible authority has submitted, submitted, sporting representations as it fully supports the review application brought by trading standards. The evidence presented in the review application to the subcommittee today demonstrates there has been a failure to uphold the licensing objectives of the prevention of crime and disorder and the protection of children from harm by the premises holder. It is important that licensed premises are well managed and that the license holder understands the legal obligations and duties that are placed upon them. In this case, the license holder has failed in their duties to uphold the licensing objectives and have potentially put members of the public at risk by stockling unlawful nicotine products. The license holder has also failed in their duties as they should have known and been aware of what has been stored and sold at their premises as they are legally responsible for this. In this case, following an inspection exercise by trading standards in which they found 1,200 illegal cigarettes, nine pouches of hand-roading tobacco and 13 oversized vapes on the premises. This demonstrates that illegal activity has taken place and this is a criminal offence under section 144, subsection 1 and 2 of the licensing act 2003. Furthermore, it is evident that there has been historic failings by management of the premises which shows there is a lack of adherence to the law and to compliance. This includes intelligence received of selling illicit tobacco, age-restricted products, alcohol and failing to know how to operate CCTV systems. The licensing authority as a responsible authority fully supports recommendation set out by trading standards that the license should be suspended for three months to allow for staff training and the addition of robust conditions. This is to ensure that they are fully compliant with their legal obligations which would include the conditions put before yourselves today. Thank you, Chair. What I am going to suggest is if we have a 10 minute break so everyone can actually read the document that has been sent out, if that is agreeable with everybody, just make sure everyone is in the loop then. So if we come back in at Har past, is that okay, sorry, that is at Har past, thank you. Thank you everybody for coming back in, have you had a chance to read the document both? Okay, thank you. What I am going to do is I am going to ask the license authority just to read the proposed amendments if that is okay, sorry for putting you on the spot if you could do that. Just so we make it aware so it is read out as well, thank you. Thank you, Chair. Okay, so to change the conditions currently on your license from refusal log to refusal log, an electronic or written refusal log will be maintained at the premises with a record of all refusals of admission or service including the sale of alcohol. The refusal log will include the basis of a refusal, the person making the decision to refuse the time of refusal, the refusal log will be kept for at least 12 months and will be produced to an officer of a responsible authority upon request. The second one is from staff training, too. All customer facing staff to receive training before their first shift when the premises is open to the public, a refresher training every six months on their responsibilities with regards to the licensing, legislation, underage and proxy sales. Training will also cover challenge 25, personal safety, conflict management, recognising signs of drunkenness, how to refuse service, the premises, duty of care, safe evacuation of the premises, company policies and reporting procedures, action to be taken in the event of emergency, including the prevention of crime scene and reporting an incident to emergency services and the conditions in force under this license. This training must be documented and produced to an officer of responsible authority upon request. From no sale to children of alcohol, cigarette and lottery, to challenge 25, the challenge 25 scheme will be operated to ensure that any person who appears to be under the age of 25 will provide documented proof that they are over 18 years of age, proof of age will only comprise a passport, sorry, photo card driving licence, an EU, EEA National ID card or a card bearing the past hologram, and finally to add single sales, so beer, cider and mixed drinks such as cocktails and alcopops are to be stocked and sold in multi-packs of minimum of four units, multi-packs must not be split. Single cans, there will be no sale of beer, lager or cider in single cans, for the avoidance of doubt, this condition will not apply to artisan, craft beer, lager or cider sold in single units and sale of alcohol not to include any super strength lagers, beers or cider where strength exceeds 6.5% ABV. Thank you, Chair. Thank you, just obviously seeing what's come out of today, can we have where the training is? Can we add a big line in about CCTV? I know it's on the license already, just clear up any discrepancy or miscommunication, if it's on there, then it's on the new ones, if that's possible. Thank you. Councillors, do you have any questions for the license and authority, Councillor Weldman? No questions, Chair. And I've already sent the one I wanted. Bear with me, I have to go back because I don't want to be having an engagement with a conversation. Back to number 43, all right, sorry, it's all going out the window, hasn't it? Licensing holder, do you want to ask anything to the licensing authority? No, I don't want to ask. But I have got to refuse a book already on the side, I'll write everything, what's, who reviews time and what's, as I said here, the challenge 25 and all that as well. Yeah, you cannot sell single cans, see the RID before you sell, that's what we do, we have been doing. So, yeah, I just want to say that. Okay, thank you. Trading standards, do you have any questions for the license and authority? No, thank you, Chair. Licensing office, did you have any questions for trading standards? No, thank you, Chair. Public health, do you have any questions for the licensing authority? No questions, Chair. West Midlands, please, do you have any questions for the licensing authority? No, thank you, Chair. Thank you, everybody. Then the next responsible authority is public health, could you please make your representations to the subcommittee? Thank you. Through you, Chair. Public health representations is in full support of the request for review by trading standards of three terms news. In relation to prevention of crime and disorder and protection of children from harm, the evidence put forward by trading standards is concerning, revealing 1,200 illegal cigarettes, nine pouches of rolling tobacco and 13 oversight babes were concealed within the store. This is further exacerbated by the fact that there was no statutory license and re-on display and the tobacco pantry was openly displaying tobacco products. Although the government recommends adult smokers to switch from smoking cigarettes to vapes, vapes are not risk-free. There are well-established concerns about the harms from vaping associated with younger people. The long-term health impacts are unknown and the nicotine contained can be highly addictive. In January 24, the government announced that the disposable vapes will be banned in the UK to tackle the rise in youth vaping and protect children's health. The illicit vapes found on the premises had a tank capacity of between 9,000 and 15,000 puffs which exceed the permitted two-mil tank capacity equivalent to 600 puffs. The reported tank capacity breaches that of UK regulations which raises significant concerns and increases the likelihood of harm on customers purchasing these items. The illegal products can often be dangerous and harmful and carry much greater risk than legal vapes. Selling these items to the local community is both illegal and unethical, posing increased risk of nicotine-related harm to the community. Smoking is a significant contributor to life expectancy and to health inequalities. There are around 100,000 nicotine-related deaths in the UK during 2020. Nicotine-related deaths being the leading cause of preventable deaths, highlighting the significance of the harms associated with nicotine-related products. Enlisted tobacco and illicit vapes due to their affordability disproportionately target vulnerable populations, including young people and those from low income. Despite government efforts to support smoking cessation, the availability of these treat products undermines these initiatives. The premises has received numerous concerns raised by citizens and local headteachers. The evidence provided during the trading standard inspection confirms illicit tobacco and vapes were stored secretly within the store, and this clearly demonstrates that the licence holder has not upheld their licence conditions. As a responsible authority, we expect licence businesses to uphold the objectives of the Licensing Act to 2003. Public health advocates for a three-month suspension for non-compliant licences and imposes stringent conditions to ensure compliance and, ultimately, prioritising public health and safety. Thank you, Chair. Thank you. Councillors, do you have any questions? Councillor Wollman. No questions, Chair. Councillor Croft. No questions, Chair. I have none. Tried in standards, do you have any questions for public health? Thank you, Chair. Premises licence holder, do you have any questions for public health? I haven't got any questions, but I will say that we will try and do our best not to get into that situation again, instead of look for the, try and help the kids not to, you know, get. So, well, we haven't been serving, but we want to not to get into the situation we are in. Instead of you having a revoke, are you, so what's the situation with the licensing? The hearing is not finished yet. Just your chance to ask a question, we have to give everyone the fair chance to ask a question. Thank you for that. West Midlands Police, do you have any questions for public health? Thank you, Your Honor. I'm not a judge. No, thank you, Chair. Legal advice, do you have any questions for public health or any of the legal points we should be made aware of? Okay. Thank you. We are now Part 11 of our procedure whereby each of the parties who have spoken will be given the opportunity to address the subcommittee. This is not time to introduce new items or new matters or questions and I will not permit you to do so it is just a sum up your representation for everybody around the table and questions will not follow and we shall do this in reverse order. License and authority, do you have anything further to add? Thank you, Chair. Thank you. Public health, do you other think further to add? Nothing further, Chair. Thank you. West Midlands Police, do you have anything further to add? Nothing further, Chair. Primacy's license holder, do you have anything further you'd like to add? This is the time where you can say what you just wanted to say just to the whole panel. Hold on. I'm sorry. Before you speak, did you have a copy of the report? Yeah. Can you turn to page four of the report? He says page four of the bottom. Four, yeah. Do you see where he says legal implications? Yeah. Yeah. At the bottom. Basically, I mean, I'm not saying, obviously, you're entitled to say what you want to say, but if you look at that, under 5.2, those are the options open to the Committee today in terms of reviewing this license. Okay. So the Committee can decide whether to modify your license, exclude a licensing activity that you're doing, for example, remove you as a DPS, suspend your license for three months or alternatively, completely revoke your license. Can you see that? Yeah. Okay. So this is the opportunity to address the Committee, because this is what they'll be considering when you leave the room for them to consider their decision. So I'm just bringing to your attention that this is what the Committee, this is what the Committee will be thinking of doing as a result of this review. So when you're presenting what you want to say, maybe you want to think about these options and address any of these, because this is what the Committee may decide to do in relation to your license. Do you understand me? There you go. Hang on. Can we just change the mic, Jacob? That one's not working properly. Sorry. Um, yeah. I just want to say we are sorry. Um, as a licensee holder, I've been working a long time. As it's our first time we've got in trouble. I hope you're a bit lenient with us, because this is our livelihood. We have got to balance back loan to pay and mortgage. So yeah, that's all I got to say at the moment. Hope you do not revoke our license, as it's our livelihood. It's just that with the alcohol sales, we only do sale, but otherwise, we don't with food and stuff. So we are sorry. It won't happen again, obviously. Okay. Thank you. That's all you wish to add. Yes. That's no problem at all. Um, the applicant writing standards, do you have anything further to add? Through you, Chair. Um, the application is not just regarding allegations of underage sales, but also the confirmation of the sale and supply of illicit cigarettes, tobacco, and illicit fapes, which have been found on the premises or sold from the premises on three occasions. And I just wants to make that sort of clear. It was to do a tobacco. Thank you, Chair. Thank you. Does the committee lawyer have any legal advice that we need to set out or any points that need to be raised before we retire? Um, not really, Chair. I mean, obviously, I've explained to the premises license order what the look, what the committee is considering and the options open to them. Um, not really anything else to add apart from that. Thank you. I'd like to thank everyone for attending, uh, and the participation in today's hearing. The subcommittee will now retire, um, to look over all the evidence and everything that's been said. It will take as long as it takes to do it justice. We will look over everything and take into account what everyone's said in the room, uh, could refer, and that's the way we conduct ourselves. Uh, the committee clerk will keep you updated and we'll call you back in once we've made our decision. Okay. So the meeting's now adjourned so we can retire and make our decision. Thank you, everybody. Okay. Thank you, everybody, uh, for returning, uh, for the decision of the subcommittee. Unfortunately, we're reviving the license. Um, do you just not prove that you're a proper person to actually have the license? So we're reviving it with a major defect, uh, Ronald will explain, um, the legal bits over to you, Ronald. Um, all right, Mrs. Hunger. Um, the committee were concerned, um, that basically, um, firstly, you didn't actually address any of the serious concerns that were raised by trading standards in the application. And despite the fact that you had numerous opportunities during the hearing, um, this morning, um, it was also clear from some of the answers that you gave that there's, there's a clear, serious lack of knowledge and understanding in relation to your responsibilities as a premises license holder and DPS. I mean, for example, I mean, the fact that you asked about Challenge 25 and your responses, what is this? And also the exchange that took place in relation to the CCTV operation and function that clearly demonstrates that you simply don't know what you're doing so far as the premises is concerned. Now, given all the information and all the evidence that has been heard in the review application and this morning, the committee concluded that in order to promote the licensing objectives of the prevention of crime disorder and the protection of children from harm, that the proposed modifications, um, suggested by the licensing authority or the suspension of your license to allow you and your management to fully understand your roles and responsibility is simply not a suitable option and therefore there's no alternative but to revoke your license with immediate effect today. Do you understand? Yeah, do understand. Hold on a second. This is just a decision. Um, I'll come to the next bit. I'm just giving you the decision. So it's just, I just need you to understand what the decision means. Yes. Yeah. Okay. The next bit is that you will receive a written notification of the decision within five working days. Now, if you think that decision is wrong, you have a right to appeal to Dudley Manchester Court and if you have anything to say about the decision, that is when you need to do it. Now, it's not an opportunity to challenge a decision, which is giving a decision and you will have a right to appeal within 21 days after you receive the written notification. Do you understand that? Yeah. Okay. And that's it. Okay. Okay. Thank you. The meeting is now ended. Thank you everyone for attending and safe journey home. [BLANK_AUDIO]
Transcript
Good morning everybody and welcome to this licensing subcommittee hearing. My name is Councillor Zee Russell and I chair the statutory licensing committee and I shall be chairing today. Before we commence with the hearings procedures, I just need to advise you that today's meeting will be broad live via our internet website and members of the public may record and take photos except for where there are confidential items. Just a few housekeeping rules. We're not expecting a fire alarm but if one does sound we'll ask you to go to the front of the building on the Piazza and assemble there. The toilets can be found next to the lift on the right and if I could just ask everyone to turn their mobile phones onto silent as we don't want any interruptions during the meeting. I will now call on my fellow subcommittee members to introduce themselves. Good morning all. I'm Councillor Gail Wildman member of the licensing subcommittee. Good morning Councillor Jonathan Cross member of the subcommittee. Thank you both. I will now ask our committee clerk to read out the names of everyone here and if you could just introduce yourself so it gives us an idea of who's who. Over to you Jacob. Thanks Chair so we have the applicant through review who's trained standards. Good morning Diane Slap who trained standards to back out control officer. Then we have the premises license holder. If you'd just like to introduce yourself. Thank you and then we've got responsible authorities. We've got the licensing authority. Good morning about Vindamika section leader acting on behalf of the licensing authority as a responsible authority. Vice Midlands police. Good morning Belly Hill from West Midlands police licensed in department and public health. Good morning Alina Bauer public health. Then we have Joshua Queensborough. Good morning Joshua Queensborough licensing and compliance officer city Wolverhampton council. Roles and Puebla. Good morning my name is Roles and Puebla. I'm Slister and a good visor to the committee. I'm Jacob Stokes democratic services officer and I'll be meeting this meeting today. Thank you Chair. Thank you Jacob. We're now at the gender item one. Are there any apologies for absence? Non-receive Chair. Item two Councillors. Do you have any declarations of interest? None Chair. None Chair. And I have none. Today we should be following the review here in procedure that is set out before you and for information we're at part three. Can I confirm with our committee clerk that everyone has been sent a copy of the procedure? They have Chair. And does everybody understand that procedure? Did you guys understand the procedure? Yeah. Thank you. Just to make your way it's not a court of law. Witnesses will not take us or anything like that but the subcommittee is just trying to establish what's happened and how we can get a resolution to that. So we may ask a couple of questions of yourself and any of the officers in the room as well. Although this is a public meeting only those who have made relevant representations can actually speak. Questions will only be allowed to clarify and there will be no back and forth arguments. We're here today because an important decision needs to be made so we need to hear all the evidence and people's views in a common civil manner. I would ask everyone to maintain polite behaviour and any comments should be made through me the Chair not directly to the person talking to you. I will not permit back and forth arguments and anyone who acts in a disruptive manner will be asked to leave. We're now at point six on the procedure and I shall ask the officer from licensing to outline the report. Through you Chair, the statutory licensing subcommittee here today to consider an application for a review of a premises license and respect to three tons news 512 Stafford Road Wolverhampton WV 1068AN. An application was received from trading standards on the 21st of March 2024 for a review of a premises license and is in relation to the prevention of crime and disorder and protection of children from harm licensing objectives. The current premises license is attached to Appendix 1. The premises is located within the Busbury North Ward and a location plan is attached to Appendix 2. The application was properly made and all statutory requirements have been complied with by the licensing authority. A copy of the review application is attached to Appendix 3. Representations have been received from Public Health, the licensing authority and West Midlands Police. Copies of these representations can be found at appendices four to six respectively. Trading standards have also provided additional information. This can be found at appendices seven to ten respectively. The application is for a review of a premises license and is before the subcommittee for consideration. Thank you, Chair. Thank you. Can I confirm with our committee clerk that a copy of the report and supplementary paper have been sent out to all parties in advance of the meeting? It has, Chair. Thank you. Just to you guys, I don't see you having any of the paperwork. Have you received it and read through it? Oh, sorry, it's hiding behind that so I didn't see. She's making sure you've got everything. Trading standards, can you confirm that that is a report read out is accurate? I can, Chair. Thank you. Thank you. We're now at point seven of the procedure where the applicant is to present their case in form. Trading standards please present your case to the subcommittee. Through you, Chair. The Traded Standards Department has responsible authority status under the License in Act 2003. Bhimma Devi Bangar is the holder of the premises license. 4512 Stafford Road Warhampton. She's also the designated premises supervisor and her personal license was issued by the Wolverhampton City Council. Three Times News currently uses Bangar stores as a trading name. Over a number of years, shoppers appear to have used various trading names which are listed on page 14 of our application. Trading standards records also show that intelligence has been received and actions have been logged in relation to contravening trading standards law practices at the premises since 2013. In January 2019, we received intelligence of illicit tobacco being sold at Bangar stores. In July 2020, we received intelligence via West Midlands Police with a visit that they had done that the shop owner or DPS Bhimma Devi Bangar found she did not know how to operate the shop CCTV system and the CCTV was switched off and this was in convention of the premises license conditions. Trading standards intelligence has been received at counterfeit cigarettes were in the shop. We have attempted underage sales in numerous times but they have passed that and advisory letters have been sent to Mrs Bangar. We have had complaints in 2021 from a local school that their pupils were purchasing vapes, an age restricted product from Bangar stores. In December 2021, trading standards received a complaint via citizens advice from a concerned parent who alleged that their 15-year-old child was purchasing vapes from Bangar stores. It was also alleged that cigarettes and alcohol were being sold to underage children. In 2022, a sale of a Magic Bar e-cigarette and a packet of illicit Marlborough cigarettes was purchased by a major tobacco manufacturer on a test purchase. In response to that, trading standards did hold discussions with the business about illicit vapes and underage sales and verbal advice was given. In November 22, another complaint was received about a 15-year-old teenager regularly purchasing vapes from the shop store. On the 5th of March, we received intelligence again that illegal cigarettes and other tobacco products were being stored and sold from the shop. Bangar stores was included as part of an inspection exercise by trading standards on the 14th of March 2024. During the inspection, we found over 1000 illegal cigarettes, 9 pouches of illegal hand rolling tobacco and 13 oversized vapes concealed in the store underneath birthday cards. Illegal cigarettes, patches of hand rolling tobacco were also found hidden in a drawer in the drawer of a tail on the counter. The tobacco products are not allowed to be sold in the UK because they had foreign language warnings or not in the permitted plain packaging as required in the UK. So they were likely to have been smuggled into this country and if that is an offence under the licensing act. Vapes found in the premises appear to have a nicotine tank larger than permitted in the UK. The labelling on the vape stated they range from 9,000 to 15,000 puffs. This is likely to exceed the permitted 2 milliliter tank capacity which is currently equivalent to about 600 puffs. These items are not allowed in the UK and again we believe there might have been smuggled in. The keeping of smooth goods, as I have just said, is an offence. When asked about the illegal products that were found hidden in the shop, Mrs Banger told officers my son bought the stuff. Illegal cigarettes and vapes were all bagged up and taken away by trading standards. It is a mandatory condition under the licensing act that an age verification policy is operated. Complaints received by trading standards suggest that Banger stores has failed to adhere to such a policy. It is a criminal offence under the nicotine inhaling products age of sale and proxy purchasing regulations to sell nicotine inhaling products known as e-cigarettes to people under 18. Intelligence received suggests that the shop has been making such sales. The following contraventions were also found at the premises. The tobacco gantry was broken leaving tobacco products on open display. This is also an offence under regulations in the UK. There was no licence summary on display. A failure to display the licence summary is a criminal offence under section 57 of the Licensing Act. As the premises licence holder Bimla Devi Banger has engaged in activities which have abreached the licensing objectives, namely the prevention of crime and disorder and the protection of children from harm. The evidence in this review over an extended period of time highlights continued failures by the shop to comply with the licensing objectives. The home office has published guidelines under the Licensing Act at section 182, with the following paragraphs being particularly irrelevant. The protection of children from harm includes the protection of children from moral, psychological and physical harm. It also believes that it is completely unacceptable to sell alcohol to children. There is certain criminal activity which might arise in connection with licence premises which should be treated particularly seriously which includes the use of the premises for the legal purchase and consumption of alcohol by minors. The guidance goes on to say where a views re-rise and the licensing authority determines that the crime prevention objectives have been undermined. Through the premises being used to further crimes it is expected that suspension or revocation of the licence even in the first instance should be seriously considered with regards to vapes. Regulations set a minimum standard for safety and equality of all cigarettes and refill containers. This ensures it also ensures information provided to consumers or so that they can make informed choices about the products they are buying. It promotes an environment that protects children from starting to use these products. On January 2024 the government announced that disposable vapes will be banned in the UK as part of government plans to tackle the rise in youth vaping and protect children's health. Information on the UK of website states that measures come as part of a government's response to their consultation on smoking and vaping which was launched in October 2023. Recent figures show that the number of children using vapes in the past three years has tripled. Amongst youth amongst younger children is also rising with 9% of 11 to 15 year old now using vapes. The long term health impacts of vaping are unknown and nicotine contained within them can be highly addictive with withdrawal sometimes causing anxiety, trouble concentrating and headaches. The sale of illegal tobacco makes it easier for children and young people to start smoking because they are sold at pocket money prices and the children get addicted at a young age. And such availability being so cheap it does make it hard for people to quit smoking. Trading standards recommend that licensing subcommittee considers a suspension of the premises license for three months to allow for staff training and the addition of robust conditions to the premises license. In particular the addition of a license condition that three tons news also known as banger stores will sign up to a responsible retailer scheme of an equivalent standard to the city of Wolverhampton council trading standards responsible retailer scheme before the suspension lapses and any other matters as the committee sees face. Thank you chair. Thank you. Councillors do you have any questions? Councillor Walsman. No questions chair? Councillor Croft. No questions chair. Just one from me regarding obviously the license and all the other questions written down and it wasn't displayed. Was there any evidence of channel challenge 25 in the booklet? Was that looked at? I've just seen now the breaches of the loss. That's the only question for myself. Thank you. The license in hold. Did you have any questions for trading standards? Yes, I would. The accusations be made that we've been selling underage alcohol. When was that? We've had repeated complaints since 2013. Yeah, that was complaints, but we have not actually sold to underage because we know what the alcohol age is. So we haven't done that. Like you said, the gallantry man came and we sold and we've done any abuse to anybody. Where we've approved the, you know, we know what the license is as a licensee. We know the age and what to do and how to do it. All I can say is I've received new complaints. Well, that's complaints you've received but not actually we sold, you know. We have attempted test purchases and they have passed but complaints keep coming in and it is, I'm not saying it's common for this shop but shops are, some shops have been known to only sell to the people they know if they're underage. But that's not what you were saying that we did sell but we have not sold anything like that. Can I just stop you? This is a back and forth argument. If you look in your pack on page 14. No, I'm not arguing. I'm just giving my... Yeah, you've already said it once. Okay. And so I just sound like, you know, well, we haven't done it, you know, but we're only going on the intelligence that's been received. Yeah. And it's all in your pack on page 14, all the dates. Yeah. Yeah. As I said, the one was a tobacco company that actually noticed what you were saying. But we haven't sold anything like that to a child and, you know, we know. Now that's an intelligence like any shop. What does that mean? Basically, somebody may have been in there that knows somebody, a child that has actually purchased from you. We can only go on what's being put in if you understand. If we've got proof, you know. Well, it's not proof but at the end of the day it's built up a picture and so hence the trading standards are coming in on the test purchases. We're in the right as well, because you know, we know what the ages are and how to do it and not to do, you know. But, you know, at the end of the day, the bottom line is they came into your shop and you had illegal items there. You know, that is the bottom line, you know, and the intelligence supports that, you know, not that you're selling it, but you have got illegal items on there. But we'll continue now on side, but I've talked about both sides. There's now evidence, but we have to go and we want intelligence we have as well. That builds up a picture of the shop. Okay. Westmillan's placed. Do you have any questions for the applicant? No, chair. Public health. Do you have any questions for the applicant? No questions, chair. Lost since an authority. Do you have any questions for the applicant? No, thank you, chair. Committee's legal adviser. Do you have any questions for trading standards or any legal points which we made aware of? We're now part eight of the procedure where the premises lies and sold out will make their representations to the subcommittee. That's down to you guys now. Okay. It's down to you to present your case to the license subcommittee. That's why I stopped you there because we were here from you. No, you see, that's all. No, no, no, that's fine. Okay. We've got the floor now to address us on what's gone on and how you want to represent yourselves to us. Yeah, I would like to say that as I've been in the licensees, I know as a license what and who to sell. You know, we have not been selling to underage kids. We know as a licensee what age and how it works. Is that what you want to add? Do you want to add anything, sir? We've been doing the shop life and for ages, but on all the rights, obviously I brought these. I'm not saying I'm not brought them. Obviously, the lady come here. I brought them not my mom off a customer. He comes in my shop. I didn't know those. It's like she'd been lost at times trading standards. She'd never found nothing before. That was only one time we bought them. We haven't bought them before. I'm not denying it. There was a drawer. Councillors, do you have any questions? Councillor oldman. That's Radio Chair. Have you both had any training at all? Going on Thursday to do the course. Can you repeat that please? Going on Thursday to do the course next week, Thursday. Okay, so you've had now training? Yeah, I've had training before. You've had training? Yeah, okay. The lottery reps have been in, have you ever been in all the time? We've always passed. Okay, thank you very much. Councillor Cross, do you have any questions? No questions, thanks, Chair. I just have one. You've just said you've had training, so you've bought things from a man that's turned up in your shop. That's not a reputable dealer, and you've purchased off them, did nothing in your mind strike you, that's a bit weird. No, because obviously it was only a little bit of stuff, and I was going to take it on to myself, personal use. That's a lot of personal use, that's all I can say. Yeah, it's more. Yeah, you know, at the end of the day, they're in your shop. Right. You jeopardize the expensive. You jeopardize in your mum's livelihood, because it's her shop. I made a mistake on them, sorry. And that's without negating the fact that, you know, the duty-free, that you've not paid on it as well, that's fraud, whichever way you want to look at it, because you're not paid towards HMRC as well. I'm not just the only shop we do, the lower the shops out there. No, this is what we do, you know, but that's not an excuse, is it, really? We didn't know that we didn't know that, that we couldn't sell these, you know, so we went bought them if we didn't know, because my husband, he used to do all the buying, and he passed away, so we were left with news, something new to do, you know, we didn't know. I know, are you aware of the Challenge 25? I don't. Are you aware of the Challenge 25 scheme? What is that? Challenge. It's on your license. Yeah, it's on your license. Yeah, the age. You know, and is your son going to register to be a DPS, then I'll take it. Yeah. Yeah, okay, that's all the questions from me, thank you. Triting standards, do you have any questions for the premises license holder? Yeah, thank you, Chair. Don't worry, it's just a test, one that's not an alarm at all. West Midlands, please, do you have any questions for the premises license holder? Through you, Chair. Sorry, I'm just a bit concerned that you said you didn't know that this was all illegal, but yet every day we read in the news and we have articles coming up that what the actual, you know, amount of a vape should be or whatever, and you said you bought it for personal use, but I can't understand that you weren't aware when you were buying this stuff. And it was, I believe, a large amount of stuff, not just a small amount of stuff. It wasn't a large amount of stuff, it was only a little bit. I mean, looking at the exhibits, there's quite a few vapes. About nine, ten vapes, sir. Okay. All the other vapes, we are on the counter, they were all 600, both from the cash and carry. So, if you wasn't aware that this was illegal, yeah, why were they hidden? Under the car. Because I left them in there, so I was going to take them home, but I had to go to hospital, on the day they came. Okay. Okay, Chair. Thank you. Public health, do you have any questions to ask the premises license holder? No further questions, Chair. License and authority, do you have any questions to ask the premises license holder? Nothing, Chair. Committee's legal advisor, do you have any questions for the premise, license holder or any legal points that we should be made aware of at this stage? So, really, just one thing. I know what you said, but I just need to emphasize that, do you do you do you understand everything that the applicant, the trading standards has said has been going on at the other premises? Because I'm conscious of that, the advantage is really dealt with a lot of what the applicant is saying. Do you understand what I'm trying to say? All I'm saying is, obviously, trading standards have set out a number of things that have been happening on various dates, very clearly, and you haven't truly addressed most of this. Yeah, but there's no evidence or people can make complaints every day. That's fine. As long as that's all you have. Every day, if I have selling drugs, that's doing that, but I've got proof of doing anything. Okay, I'm just making sure, because, obviously, today's hearing is for the committee to review your license, and there are a number of options that the committee can make in relation to your current license. One of them actually is to revoke your license completely. You need to understand that an application has been made by trading standards who've set out quite a lot of detail about intelligence and what's been happening. You have an opportunity to go through all of these and say something about what they're saying. Hold on a second. If all you want to say is what you've said, that's fine, and that's what the committee will consider, but you do have an opportunity, and this is your opportunity to actually address everything that has been said in the application today. That's all I'm saying. There are made accusations, but as on the premise, we know how we've been working. That's all I've got to say, but that's our livelihood if you revoke our license. I'm not saying the committee is going to revert your license. I'm saying that one of the options the committee has is to modify your conditions, to change that also to revoke your license. Your license could be taken away from you today because of what we heard today. All I'm saying is that before the committee makes that decision, you have an opportunity to answer and deal with all the things that you've heard trading standards have said. I'm conscious of the fact that you haven't really done that this morning. Well, we did bring a solicitor, but that was the wrong one, and he was going to be helping us, but as whatever question you want to ask, I'm willing to answer. And for the DPS, the lady was saying that I didn't display because the Wolverhampton City Council never sent to me. I told you the other day, love, when I came to see you. Remember, but I have a flood, so they still haven't sent you a paid for return everything. That was, was it a week ago, two weeks ago? And I haven't still received you. So, you know, why isn't being sent if I paid for you? Can we have a response? Have you got a response to that at all, Don? Mrs. Banger came to see me end of March, and it turned out that the address that was on her premises license wasn't her real address, wasn't her home address. So, we assumed, or I assumed, that maybe it still was sent to her address, and I asked you to amend it, didn't I? I did amend it, but they still didn't send me anything, so that's not my fault that it was in display, was it? I can't comment on that because I don't work for that. Was the Wolverhampton City Council never sent you a paid? I told the young man of the city next to you that I paid, didn't you take my payment? Yes. You took my payment last year, remember, and nobody sent me the display thing, so where is it? Why wasn't it sent? So, the application for a premises license, hold a change of address, and it's a change premises name. I did say, was submitted a few weeks ago, and was posted out to the applicant. And last year, I was told I came, when the lady came to see me, why isn't it displayed? I came the same day to come to the City of Wolverhampton to tell him, but nothing was done. I paid the money, nothing was, why? The license has been posted out as of last week, since the last most recent applications to do so. But why wasn't it done last year when I paid for it? They took the payment straight away from me. If it just brings Diane, she's indicated, she's a lot to speak. The address, your address on your license wasn't the correct address. Yeah, because I left there, I did tell last time I came, I said that was not my address, but they still are paid for it, and nothing was done. So, it's not my fault, is it? Well, I'll just correct you there. At the end of the day, the business is yours. If that was my business, the address would be on me to be banging on their door if I paid for it. Did it once or twice by saying so, you know, at the end of the day, if that's my business, I'd be banging on their door. I paid for it right then, and then I paid for it, but you've not received it. If I hadn't received it, it had been up here every day until I got it. Well, I was writing a lot. You're the DPS, the license is your name. I understand. So, you're selling cigarettes without that being there, that's your livelihood. I would put everything in place for my livelihood. That's all I'm going to leave that matter. I was just waiting for it. As I say, it's your business. If it was my business, believe me, I'd be up here every day, because it's in your interests. I understand where you're coming from, with what you're saying, but when it's your own business, I'd be there banging that drum every day. Okay, then we're going to move on now, because it's just going to go back and forth. We're now at 0.9 of the procedure, where the responsible authorities are to make their representations, and we will start with West Midlands Police, if you could make your representation to the committee. Through you, Chair, West Midlands Police are in full support of the premises license review for three tons, also known as Banger Stores, 512 Stafford Road, Wolverhampton, following a training standards visit. The information provided in the agenda packs of the items, such as Vapes and illegal cigarettes found on this license premises, cause significant concern to West Midlands Police. West Midlands Police expects all individuals and businesses who hold a premises license to do so responsibly and uphold all four of their licenses and objectives. On the 6th of July 2020, the premises license held a Bimla Devi Banger, who is also the DPS, was present on the day of a visit to the store, by trading standards and officers and police officers. As mentioned in the review application, police officers held a discussion with Bimla regarding CCTV in relation to an investigation and were informed that she did not know how to operate this. Also, when told by the DPS to check for themselves to view, they found that the system was switched off. This was in contravention of the premises license condition again. During this time, Bimla Devi informed officers that she was not aware of the shops license in conditions. The premises license holder DPS should act in a responsible manner when trusted to all cell age-restricted goods and the running of their premises, yet this was not the case. Failure to display the license summary is a criminal offense under Section 57 4 of the License in Act 2003. The evidence provided by trading standards clearly shows a total disregard for the prevention of crime and disorder and public safety. On the 13th of October 21, Intel was received by trading standard officers that under age local school pupils were being able to purchase age-restricted products from banger stores, which has then led to a visit. This is not the level of standards West Midlands police expects of a premises license holder where age-restricted goods are being sold. As a premises license holder, Bimla Devi has engaged in activating her abreached the license objective, namely the prevention of crime and disorder and the protection of children from harm. Trading standards note in their review application that since 2013, this store has been known to trade and standards with actions logged against them. This application demonstrates the long-standard training standards officers have completed with the premises and premises license holder. If the committee's decision is that the premises should retain their license, then a robust set of conditions and suspension of license for three months should be given. Conditions for the committee to consider are Challenge 25, CCTV made and kept running at all times for when this is required by responsible authorities within 24 hours in all areas members of the public have access to where money is exchanged and where age-restricted goods are stored. Refusal logs, incident logs and a good condition to ensure at least one member of staff is trained to download footage and work the CCTV in accordance with licensing conditions. Where suspension of the license should be in place until conditions are adhered to. If this option is not accepted by the committee, then revocation of the license should be considered. Thank you, Chair. Thank you. Councillors, do you have any questions for Wespans, please? Councillor Woldman. No questions, Chair. Councillor Croft. No questions, Chair. I have none. Trading standards, do you have any questions for Wespans, please? No, thank you, Chair. premises license holder, do you have any questions for Wespans, please? You said that the CCTV camera is not working. It's working every day. So, whoever came that day said it's not working. I've got to prove because we always get trouble at the shop. We are going to switch it off. So, and obviously my mum was there that day. She don't know to use it, I use it. And obviously, that CCTV camera box is always working. We had to get a new one because it only recorded up for 20 days and they said it needs to be 30 days. That was because of the incident, what happened outside the premises, outside the shop, when the police came to the ID? Okay, this is July 2020. Your mother confirmed to the officers she wasn't able to use it as a DPS. She should be aware how to use this. Also, she told them to go to the back because it's in their statements. When they went to the back, the TV was switched off. The TV was... So, I believe that the CCTV wasn't... The shop was continuously on. They told me to rewind it. I said I don't know how to rewind it. And they said that I don't know about the licensing, what to do. Of course, do you know who said that? But you obviously admitted to this. No, I didn't know. In their statements there. No, I didn't. I just told them that I don't know how to rewind it. If you know how to rewind it, you can go and have a look, do it yourself. That's what I said. I'm a licensee. I know what I... This is back and forth again. No, I'm not saying that. I just want to give my point as well. You do your point. It's not fair though. No, but officers aren't allowed. They have to put it down. Yeah, we understand. But it's not fair though. It's not fair, but the positions have been made. If I could finish, please. Part of your license is knowing how to use the CCTV. You are the DPS. Not your son, you are the DPS. I don't know what technology you love. And then it shouldn't be... You shouldn't be a license holder then, should you? I've been a license holder for so long. Obviously, you're not reading what's in your license then. Yeah, but new technology, I don't know. Then I don't think you fit in proper to hold a license then. Because you're not doing regulations or actually on the license you're signing for and applying for. Yeah, but that's the hard drive. It's something new. I've never done that in my life. It's the end of the day. It's on there. You've signed up to that license. Yeah, I understand. You understand that's the law. Yeah. And if you can't do that, then you shouldn't be running the license. But that's nothing to do with that. Of course it is. I didn't know how to use it. That's what I'm saying. If you want to look at your license again and have a look in the actually say CCTV, you've signed for that. I'm going to leave it there because we can argue all down. I'm not willing to. No, no, I'm just trying to give my point of view that I don't know how to use it. But then don't apply for a license then. It's quite simple. If you're not willing to go through the conditions on that license, which stage? I will go through the conditions of the license and learn how to do it. Yes, that was the answer I was looking for. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Licensing authority, do you have any questions for public health? Have I jumped? I've jumped. I've gone off. I'm sorry. Licensing authority. Committee's legal advisor, do you have any questions for public health or any legal points we should be made aware of at this stage? Okay. Oh, Westmillan's police. Sorry. Okay. Next, responsible authority is the licensing authority. Please make your representations. Thank you. And through you, Chair, the license authority as a responsible authority has submitted submitted, supporting representations as it fully supports the review application brought by trading standards. The evidence presented in the review application to the subcommittee today demonstrates there has been a failure to uphold the licensing objectives of the prevention of crime and disorder and the protection of children from harm by the premises holder. It is important that licensed premises are well managed and that the license holder understands the legal obligations and duties that are placed upon them. In this case, the license holder has failed in their duties to uphold the licensing objectives and have potentially put members of the public at risk by stocking unlawful nicotine products. The license holder has also failed in their duties as they should have known and been aware of what was being stored and sold at their premises as they are legally responsible for this. In this case, following an inspection exercise by trading standards in which they found 1,200 illegal cigarettes, nine pouches of hand rolling tobacco and 13 oversized vapes on the premises. This demonstrates that illegal activity has taken place and this is a criminal offense under section 144 subsection 1 and 2 of the licensing act 2003. Furthermore, it is evident that there has been historic failings by management of the premises which shows there is a lack of adherence to the law and to compliance. This includes intelligence received of selling illicit tobacco, age-restricted products, alcohol and failing to know how to operate CCTV systems. The licensing authority as a responsible authority fully supports recommendation set out by trading standards that the license should be suspended for three months to allow for staff training and the addition of robust conditions. This is to ensure that they are fully compliant with their legal obligations which would include the conditions put before yourselves today. Thank you, Chair. So what I'm going to suggest is if we have a 10-minute break so everyone can actually read the document that's been sent out, if that's agreeable with everybody, just make sure everyone's in the loop then. So if we come back in at a whole past, is that okay? Sorry, that's a whole past. Thank you everybody for coming back in. Have you had a chance to read the document both? Thank you. What I'm going to do is I'm just going to ask the license authority just to read the proposed amendments if that's okay. Sorry for putting you on the spot if you could do that. Just so we make it aware so it's read out as well. Thank you. Thank you, Chair. Okay, so to change the conditions currently on your license from refusal log to refusal log, an electronic or written refusal log will be maintained at the premises with a record of all refusals of admission or service including the sale of alcohol. The refusal log will include the basis of a refusal, the person making the decision to refuse the time of refusal. The refusal log will be kept for at least 12 months and will be produced to an officer of a responsible authority upon request. The second one is from staff training 2. All customer facing staff to receive training before their first shift when the premises is open to the public, a refresher training every six months on their responsibilities with regards to the licensing, legislation, underage and proxy sales. Training will also cover challenge 25, personal safety, conflict management, recognising signs of drunkenness, how to refuse service, the premises, duty of care, safe evacuation of the premises, company policies and reporting procedures, action to be taken in the event of emergency including the prevention of crime scene and reporting the incident to emergency services and the conditions in force under this license. This training must be documented and produced to an officer of responsible authority upon request. From no sale to children of alcohol, cigarette and lottery to challenge 25, the challenge 25 scheme will be operated to ensure that any person who appears to be under the age of 25 will provide documented proof that they are over 18 years of age, proof of age will only comprise a passport, sorry photo card driving license, an EU, EEA national ID card or a card bearing the past hologram and finally to add single single sales so beer cider and mixed drinks such as cocktails and alcopops are to be stocked and sold in multi-packs of minimum of four units, multi-packs must not be split. Single cans, there will be no sale of beer, lager or cider in single cans for the avoidance of doubt, this condition will not apply to artisan, craft beer, lager or cider sold in single units and sale of alcohol not to include any super strength lagers, beers or ciders where strength exceeds 6.5% ABV. Thank you. Thank you. Just obviously seeing what's come out of today. Can we have where the trading is? Can we add a big line in about CCTV? I know it's on the license already just to clear up any, you know, discrepancy or miscommunication, if it's on there then you know it's on the new ones, if that's possible. Thank you. Councillors do you have any questions for the license and authority? Councillor Wildman. No questions, Chair. Councillor Croft. No questions, Chair. And I've already sent the one I wanted. Bear with me, I have to go back because I jumped one because we were having an engagement of a conversation. We're back to number 43. Oh right, sorry. It's all gone out the window, hasn't it? Licensing hold, did you want to ask anything to the licensing authority? No, I don't want to ask but I have got to refuse the book already on the site, I'll write everything, what's, who reviews time and what's, as I said here, the challenge 25 and all that as well. Yeah, you cannot sell single cans, see the IED before you sell, that's what we do, we have been doing. So yeah, I just want to say that. Okay, thank you. Trading standards, do you have any questions for the license and authority? No, thank you, Chair. Licensing office, did you have any questions for trading standards? Licensing. No, thank you, Chair. Public health, do you have any questions for the license and authority? No questions, Chair. West Midlands, please, do you have any questions for the license and authority? No, thank you, Chair. Thank you, everybody. Then are the next responsible authorities, Public Health, could you please make your representations to the subcommittee? Thank you. Through you, Chair. Public health representations is in full support of the request for review by trading standards of three tonnes news. In relation to prevention of crime and disorder and protection of children from harm, the evidence put forward by trading standards is concerning, revealing 1,200 illegal cigarettes, 9 pouches of rolling tobacco, and 13 oversight vapes were concealed within the store. This is further exacerbated by the fact that there was no statutory license and re-on display, and the tobacco gantry was openly displaying tobacco products. Although the government recommends adult smokers to switch from smoking cigarettes to vapes, vapes are not risk free. There are well-established concerns about the harms from vaping associated with younger people. The long-term health impacts are unknown, and the nicotine contained can be highly addictive. In January 24, the government announced that the disposable vapes will be banned in the UK to tackle the rise in youth vaping and protect children's health. The illicit vapes found on the premises had a tank capacity of between 9,000 and 15,000 puffs, which exceed the permitted two-mill tank capacity equivalent to 600 puffs. The reported tank capacity breaches that of UK regulations, which raises significant concerns and increases the likelihood of harm on customers purchasing these items. The illegal products can often be dangerous and harmful and carry much greater risk than legal vapes. Selling these items to the local community is both illegal and unethical, posing increased risk of nicotine-related harm to the community. Smoking is a significant contributor to life expectancy and health inequalities. There are around 100,000 nicotine-related deaths in the UK during 2020. Nicotine-related deaths being the leading cause of preventable deaths, highlighting the significance of the harms associated with nicotine related products. A illicit tobacco and illicit vapes, due to their affordability, disproportionately target vulnerable populations, including young people and those from low income. Despite government efforts to support smoking cessation, the availability of these treat products undermines these initiatives. The premises has received numerous concerns raised by citizens and local headteachers. The evidence provided during the trading standard inspection confirms illicit tobacco and vapes were stored secretly within the store, and this clearly demonstrates that the license holder has not upheld their license conditions. As a responsible authority, we expect licensed businesses to uphold the objectives of the licensing act to 2003. Public health advocates for a three-month suspension for non-compliant licenses and imposes stringent conditions to ensure compliance and, ultimately, prioritising public health and safety. Thank you, Chair. Thank you. Councillors, do you have any questions? Councillor Waldman. No questions, Chair. Councillor Croft. No questions, Chair. I have none. Tried and standards, do you have any questions for public health? No, thank you, Chair. premises license holder, do you have any questions for public health? I haven't got any questions, but I will say that we will try and do our best not to get into that situation again, instead of look for the, try and help the kids not to, you know, get. So, well, we haven't been serving, but we want to not to get into the situation we are in, instead of you having a revocor. Are you, so what's the situation with the licensing? That the hearing's not finished yet. Oh, okay. Just your chance to ask a question, we have to give everyone the fair chance to ask a question. Okay, then, thank you for that. Westmillans, please, do you have any questions for public health? Thank you, Your Honor. Public safety. License and authority, do you have any questions for public health? No, thank you, Chair. Legal advisor, do you have any questions for public health or any of the legal points you should be made aware of? Okay. Thank you. We are now part 11 of our procedure whereby each of the parties who have spoken will be given the opportunity to address the subcommittee. This is not time to introduce new items or new matters or questions and I will not permit you to do so it is just sum up your representation for everybody around the table and questions will not follow and we shall do this in reverse order. License and authority, do you have anything further to add? No, thank you, Chair. Thank you. Public health, do you other think further to add? Nothing further, Chair. Thank you. Westmillans, please, do you have anything further to add? Nothing further, Chair. Premise this license holder, do you have anything further you'd like to add? This is the time where you can decide what you just wanted to say just to the whole panel. Hold on. I'm sorry. Before you speak, do you have a copy of the report? Yeah. Can you turn to page four of the report? Page. It says page four of the bottom. Four, yeah. Do you see where it says legal implications? Yeah, at the bottom. Basically, I mean, I'm not saying, obviously, you're entitled to say what you want to say, but if you look at that under 5.2, those are the options open to the committee today in terms of reviewing this license. Okay. So, the committee can decide whether to a modify your license, exclude a licensing activity that you're doing, for example, remove you as a DPS, suspend your license for three months, or alternatively, complete revoke your license. Can you see that? Yeah. Okay. So, this is the opportunity to address the committee, because this is what they will be considering when you leave the room for them to consider their decision. So, I'm just bringing to your attention that this is what the committee, this is what the committee will be thinking of doing as a result of this review. So, when you're presenting what you want to say, maybe you want to think about these options and address any of these, because this is what the committee may decide to do in relation to your license. Do you understand me? There you go. Hang on, can we just change the mic, Jacob? That one's not working properly, sorry. Yeah. I just want to say we are sorry. As a licensee holder, I've been working a long time. As it's our first time we've got in trouble, I hope you're a bit lenient with us, because this is our livelihood. We have got to balance back loan to pay and mortgage. So, yeah, that's all I've got to say at the moment. Hope you do not revoke our license, as it's our livelihood. It's just that with the alcohol sales, we only do sale, but otherwise we don't with food and stuff. So, we are sorry. It won't happen again, obviously. Okay, thank you. That's all you wish to add. Yes, not the moment. That's no problem at all. The applicant trading standards, do you have anything further to add? Through you, Chair. The application is not just regarding allegations of underage sales, but also the confirmation of the sale and supply of illicit cigarettes, tobacco, and illicit vapes, which have been found on the premises or sold from the premises on three occasions. And I just wanted to make that sort of clear it was to do tobacco. Thank you, Chair. Thank you. Does the committee lawyer have any legal advice that we need to set out or any points that need to be raised before we retire? I'm not really Chair. I'm obviously, I've explained to the premises license order what the committee is considering and the options open to them, not really anything else to add, apart from that. Thank you. I'd like to thank everyone for attending and the participation in today's hearing. The sole committee will now retire to look over all the evidence and everything that's been said. It will take as long as it takes to do it justice. We will look over everything and take into account what everyone said in the room could refer, and that's the way we conduct ourselves. The committee clerk will keep you updated and we'll call you back in once we've made our decision. Okay, so the meeting's now adjourned so we can retire and make our decision. Thank you everybody. Okay, thank you everybody for returning for the decision of the subcommittee. Unfortunately, we're revoking the license. You just not prove that you're a proper person to actually have the license, so we're revoking it with a major defect. Ronald will explain the legal bits over to you, Ronald. All right, Mrs Bangler. The committee were concerned that basically, firstly, you didn't actually address any of the serious concerns that were raised by trading standards in the application, and despite the fact that you had numerous opportunities during the hearing this morning, it was also clear from some of the answers that you gave that there's a clear, serious lack of knowledge and understanding in relation to your responsibilities as a premises license holder and DPS. I mean, for example, I mean, the fact that you asked about Challenge 25 and your response is what is this, and also the exchange that took place in relation to the CCTV operation and function that clearly demonstrates that you simply don't know what you're doing so far as the premises is concerned. Now, given all the information and all the evidence that has been heard in the review application and this morning, the committee concluded that in order to promote the licensing objectives of the prevention of crime disorder and the protection of children from harm, that the proposed modifications suggested by the licensing authority or the suspension of your license to allow you and your management to fully understand your roles and responsibility is simply not a suitable option, and therefore there's no alternative but to revoke your license with immediate effect today. Do you understand? Yeah, do understand. Hold on a second. This is just a decision. I'll come to the next bit. I'm just giving you the decision, so I just need you to understand what the decision means. Yes? Yeah. Okay. The next bit is that you will receive a written notification of the decision within five working days. Now, if you think that decision is wrong, you have a right to appeal to Dudley Manchester Court and if you have anything to say about the decision, that is when you need to do it. Now, it's not an opportunity to challenge a decision, which is giving a decision and you will have a right to appeal within 21 days after you receive the written notification. Do you understand that? Yeah. Okay, and that's it. Okay. Okay, thank you. The meeting is now ended. Thank you everyone for attending and safe journey home.
Summary
In a recent Wolverhampton Licensing Subcommittee meeting, the main focus was the review of a premises license for Three Tons News, also known as Bangar Stores, located at 512 Stafford Road. The review was initiated by Trading Standards due to concerns related to the prevention of crime and disorder and the protection of children from harm.
Premises License Review: Trading Standards presented a detailed case against the premises, highlighting a series of violations that have occurred since 2013. These included the sale of illicit tobacco and vapes, failure to operate CCTV properly, and allegations of selling age-restricted products to minors. During an inspection on March 14, 2024, authorities discovered over a thousand illegal cigarettes, nine pouches of illegal hand-rolling tobacco, and 13 oversized vapes hidden in the store. The owner, Bimla Devi Bangar, admitted that her son had purchased these items, not knowing they were illegal. Trading Standards recommended a three-month suspension of the premises license to allow for staff training and the implementation of robust conditions.
Defense by Premises License Holder: Bimla Devi Bangar and her son, who also participated in the management of the store, defended their actions by claiming ignorance about the legality of the products they sold and insisted that they had not knowingly sold to underage customers. They highlighted their lack of familiarity with operating modern CCTV systems and other technical aspects of their licensing requirements.
Input from Responsible Authorities:
- West Midlands Police supported the review, expressing concerns about the premises' management and compliance with licensing objectives, particularly regarding public safety and crime prevention.
- Public Health raised concerns about the health impacts of the illicit vapes found on the premises, which exceeded UK regulatory limits for nicotine products.
- Licensing Authority emphasized the repeated failures in management and compliance, supporting the need for stringent measures to ensure adherence to legal standards.
Legal Advisor's Input: The committee's legal advisor clarified the options available, including modifying the license, suspending it, or revoking it entirely. The advisor emphasized the seriousness of the allegations and the evidence presented.
Decision: After deliberation, the subcommittee decided to revoke the premises license of Three Tons News with immediate effect, citing the owner's inadequate response to the violations and a lack of understanding of their responsibilities under the licensing act.
This decision underscores the council's commitment to upholding the law and protecting the community, particularly minors, from exposure to illicit and potentially harmful products. The council's licensing subcommittee convened to review the premises license of Three Tons News, also known as Banger Stores, due to concerns about the sale of illicit tobacco products and failure to comply with licensing objectives. The meeting involved detailed presentations from Trading Standards, West Midlands Police, the Licensing Authority, and Public Health, all supporting the review due to various compliance failures by the premises.
Decision: Revocation of Premises License The subcommittee decided to revoke the premises license of Three Tons News. Trading Standards presented evidence of repeated illegal activities, including the sale of illicit tobacco and vapes. The premises license holder, Bimla Devi Banger, demonstrated a lack of understanding of her responsibilities, notably in operating CCTV and adhering to Challenge 25. The police and public health authorities expressed concerns about the premises' contribution to crime and potential harm to minors. The decision to revoke was based on the need to uphold the licensing objectives of preventing crime and protecting children. The implications are significant for the business, which will no longer be able to sell alcohol or tobacco products, impacting its operations and financial stability.
Interesting Occurrence: During the meeting, there was a notable lack of preparedness on the part of the premises license holder, who seemed unaware of basic licensing requirements such as Challenge 25 and the operation of CCTV. This lack of knowledge significantly influenced the committee's decision to revoke the license. Additionally, there was confusion about the receipt and display of the license summary, which the license holder blamed on administrative errors by the council, though this did not affect the final decision.
Documents
- Agenda frontsheet 09th-May-2024 10.30 Statutory Licensing Sub-Committee agenda
- Public reports pack 09th-May-2024 10.30 Statutory Licensing Sub-Committee reports pack
- Licensing Act 2003 - Application for a Review of a Premises Licence in respect of Three Tuns News 5
- Appendix 1 - Premises Licence
- Appendix 2 Location Plan
- Appendix 3 - Application for Review
- Appendix 4 - Public Health Representations
- Appendix 5 Licensing Authority Representations
- Printed minutes 09th-May-2024 10.30 Statutory Licensing Sub-Committee minutes