Transcript

Transcript

Transcript

Just started recording chair. Thank you Kirsty. Good morning everyone, welcome to my area committee. Please note that this is a fully virtual meeting with members and officers attending fully virtually. The public section of the meeting will be recorded and published online for public viewing after the meeting. Can members activate their cameras where possible to enable you to join by video and can all attendees mute their microphones when not speaking? Please do not come in during items unless the chair invites you to do so. If members wish to speak on any point, please use the hands up function in the team's meeting system, or if you're unable to use hands up, state your name and the item you wish to speak on and I will bring you in at an appropriate time. If any members attending virtually lose connection or have any technical issues during the meeting, please alert the committee officer Kirsty McLeod by a separate message if possible. Support will be available from the IT officer during the meeting if required. Kirsty can I ask you to do the sediment please by a roll call of members. Thank you chair. Good morning. Councillor Bryan. Good morning. Councillor Tarvey. Good morning, I'm here. Councillor Darno. Yes, good morning, I'm here. Councillor Goodall. Good morning. Councillor Clappert. Here. Councillor Knight. Morning. Councillor Petchey. Yes. Councillor Ross. Good morning. And there are apologies from Councillors Blackett and with you this morning. Thank you. Thank you, Kirsty. Item one on our agenda, declaration of members interests. If anyone has a declaration to make, please indicate by using the hands up function now and I shall bring you in to clarify. Please state the item number, nature of the declaration and whether you will leave the meeting. So we have Anouk, Councillor Clappert. Yes, good morning. Hi, I think I have a declared an interest in, I think it's item nine for being the observing Councillor for both the Mid-Desire Community Trust and the Torvins Pass Group. And I have applied the objective test and I don't believe that both their interests are, that they are remote and insignificant. So I like to remain in the meeting. Thank you, Councillor Clappert. Councillor Brown. Thank you, Chair. I have an interest in item nine, Mar area committee, large area grant application by virtue of being an ordinary member of Mid-Desire Community Trust and applicant. And so I will leave the meeting and take no part in that item. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor Brown. Councillor Torvie. Yes. Good morning. I have an interest in item nine, the large area grant application by virtue of being a member of the Bancoury Centre and Rotary Club, which the football club is also now a business member. So I will leave the meeting and take no part in the item. Thank you, Councillor Torvie. Item 2A, Public Centre Equality Duty. Announce the committee whether they agree to give due regard to their duties under the Equality Act. If anyone has an issue, please indicate now. Agreed. I see everyone agree. Good. Item 2B, Exempt Information. Will the committee agree to take item 11 in private? If not, please say. Agreed. Agreed. Thank you. Item 3, Minute of Meeting of Mar Area Committee on the 7th of May 2024. Does the committee approve the minute as a good, accurate, accurate record? Agreed. Thank you. Item 4, Statement of Outstanding Business. I shall bring in Kirsty McLeod to deal with this one. Kirsty. Thank you, Chair. As you'll see from the papers, there's currently one outstanding matter on the statement. There's no further update at this time, but we'll share the information with the committee as soon as that's available. Thank you, Kirsty. Item 5, Full Planning Permission for Erection of Six Glamping Pods, Decking Hot Tops and Information of Parking Area at the Land North West of Woodend of Bracko Pit Capel in Verourie, Application No. 2020-22/1900. I should advise the committee that there is a request to speak from the agent, Jennifer Ross of John Wyndt Design. So are we content to hear Jennifer Ross? Yes. Yes. Thank you. Can I confirm that the speaker is on the call? Yes, Chair. The speaker is on the call. Thank you, Kirsty. Speaker, if I could, Jennifer Ross, could I say to you, the committee will first hear from the planning officer, then you'll be invited to address the committee. In line with the guidance you have received, please mute your microphone when not speaking if your phone permits this. You can unmute using the code *6 when required. Please do not speak unless I invite you to do so, and please do not interrupt other speakers. You'll be given up to five minutes to speak. After that, members may ask questions. You will then be entitled to remain in the meeting for the rest of the item, although your microphone will be muted. Could I ask Neil Mayor, senior planning officer, to present the report? Neil. Thanks, Chair. Morning, everyone. This one is before you today due to an objection from the community council, and it relates to an application that is being supported as a departure from the local development plan. Proposal is for six glamping pods. Each one has a bit of decking and a hot tub, and there's a central sitting area with a fire pit and associated car parking. The site is located in a rural location at the foot of Bennicke. Sorry, I'll just jump back. And you can see hopefully on this cover slide just to the north of the site is the Bennicke centre. And you can actually see this green diamond route is the Gordon Way. So there's the the attractions nearby to which this is kind of hoping to sit alongside in terms of a tourist interest. So, again, here's our site. It's actually, I should say, it's pretty much on the Margheri boundary, but it is entirely in our jurisdiction. So here's an aerial image. You've got the Bennicke centre. I'm just hovering the mouse over it there, sitting just beyond the woodland. And I've badly squiggled roughly the Red Line site onto this aerial image. There's some views from the site. It's largely rough, unkempt, part of the overall agricultural landscape. So we've got a location plan here. There's a couple of residential properties to the southeast. Croft in the applicant's ownership to the west and access taken from the public road to the east of the site. This is the proposed site plan. So you can see the access track coming in to serve the development with parking area here and then. Book path tracks leading up to each of the pods with this communal sitting area here, you maybe just about pick out the drainage arrangement here, shown in green across the across the site. That's a bit better there, zoomed in actually. And so there's a sewage treatment plant just to the north of the lodges there to deal with the foul drainage. Details of the access here with a lay-by with chamfered edges, which helps provide the visibility splays, as can be shown on the right. Site sections here, obviously is the bottom of Benakee, so there is a gradual rise in land level leading up towards Benakee Forest and Mither Tap. And these are the proposed pods, quite small in size, dark cladding, slightly skewed gable arrangement, and each would have an area of decking with hot tub adjacent. Again, just putting things into context here, this is the Benakee walking routes and the Benakee visitor centre. Our site is just in this open area, just roughly where I'm hovering the mouse cursor there, so you can see how close it is to Benakee visitor centre. And whilst not associated in any way, there's no separate ownership or anything like that. It is tying into that function of the existing recreational and tourist uses at the Benakee centre are walking and hiking up Benakee or walking the Gordon Way, and it will allow those day visitors to perhaps extend their stay. And that's kind of the key consideration really in terms of the justification for the support here is that there are economic benefits through offering the opportunity for a longer stay for day visitors or indeed just attracting visitors in its own right through the overnight accommodation through the glamping pods. The real issue with the policy departure, I mean, you can see here, Chapel Aguirre's two miles away and Moni Musk's five miles away. As we know from other recent committee meetings, when it comes to tourist accommodation of any sort, be it glamping pods like this, or be it in a recent instance at Torfins where it was more akin to a dwelling, but the tourist accommodation or tourist facilities policy requires these things to be well related to existing settlements. Now, we've got no core path or national cycle routes or bus routes or anything serving this site, so that's the real policy failing here. When you look at it in isolation, this is not well related to settlements and the policy requires that. But the policy also looks at economic benefits and as I touched on, that is the scope here to offer a bit of diversification and the option for an extended stay for any day visitors or just to attract visitors in its own right. And the longer someone stays in the area, the more likely they are to visit other attractions or spend money in local shops and cafes and whatnot. So the economic benefit is quite clear there. The Bennicke Centre is actually referenced in a footnote in the LDP as being a high footfall generating use. It's used as an example of when a tourist facility may not have to be well related to a settlement because it's so intrinsically linked to the landscape in which it sits. Now, that logic applies to the visitor centre, doesn't apply to these pods, but what the benefit is that these pods are located next to Bennicke Centre, which is cited as an example of a high footfall generating use. It does strengthen that link to this being one that's worth a logical departure from the local development plan because there is a high footfall generating use adjacent at the Bennicke Centre. So why not capture some of the benefit of that by offering some of that high footfall the chance to stay over and spend more time in the local area? So that's really the crux of the matter in terms of the policy departure. I'll come away from the slides just now and to just touch on some other issues. Consultees, technical consultees are all fine. You'll see the application title is a 2022 one. It's taken a bit of a while to get here, and that's due to quite a rare and random anomaly to do with radon in the water supply and it being quite new to ourselves and environmental health, but that's all been resolved and taken care of. Condition two will reaffirm the solutions there. All other consultees are fine. Our natural environment team are happy that there are no impacts on the local landscape. Roads development are fine with the visibility and the junction and the parking and the road arrangement and so on. There is an objection from the Community Council. That's obviously one of the reasons why we are here today. The main concern is about the impact on the special landscape area. And again, I fully appreciate there's a level of subjectivity here, but from the planning services point of view, the dark recessive colouring and the small scale nature of these glamping pods is quite low impact in the wider landscape and whatever minor impact there may be, it would be outweighed by the potential economic benefits here. So we certainly don't see any significant impact from these quite small structures sitting in this look quite low lying location in the wider landscape setting. There was also objections in relation to lighting, but there are no external lights here, noise pollution and so on. Again, understandable objections, but there's nothing raised through environmental health here. And largely the noise is not something you can plan for. It's a behavioural issue, unfortunately, and that's not something that we can really exert any great control over in that sense. There are air source heat pumps which are going to be used to power the hot tubs and they have been shown to be below any level noise level that would cause any nuisance. So concerns from the community council largely repeat the concerns from 38 objectors. It's all similar themes there, but as you'll see through the report, they've all been addressed and discussed and there is nothing of any significance there that concern the planning service or alter our intention to support this as a departure. It's also worth noting there's 27 letters of support for the proposal. It's not quite 50/50 in terms of the public input, but 27 letters of support that all, I guess, almost give a contrary view, saying that there is minimal impact and that there'll be huge benefits to the local economy and will just encourage people and enhance the attractiveness of Bennicke. So a reasonable amount to all of this chair and the committee, but hopefully between the report and that quick run through of the slides, you've got everything you need. But as always, I'm happy to answer any questions, but this one is recommended for approval as a departure from the local development plan on the basis of the tourism and economic benefits and the logical location next to the high footfall generating attraction of the Bennicke Centre and the Bennicke range being worth supporting as a departure from policy B3. And of course, approval subject to the conditions in the report. Thanks chair. Thank you Neil. Do members have any questions for Neil? No questions? Oh, here we go. Councillor Plopper. Yeah, that didn't quite work for me. So just took a minute. I have a question for Neil. I wondered, we were talking about the impact on the special landscape. So how visible are the ports or would the ports be from say the roadside and from accessing say the Bennicke visitor centre? I wondered about that, if there's any information about that. And I think I know the roads around Bennicke, but are there any roads perhaps suitable, are these roads suitable for cycling? Are they safe enough? Are there any other connections rather than roads to nearby settlements like a path network that can be used by cycles? And another question would be, are the ports movable? Well, maybe that's for, maybe for the next speaker. Yeah, certainly. temporary in nature. That's why I wondered. Well, they are lightweight and they sit on decking, which is usually sat on stilts effectively rather than a deep dug, robust foundation. But indeed, that's probably a better question to the applicant's agent when she speaks. I'm sorry, there was quite a lot of questions there. So excuse me if I miss something. I'll try and answer them one by one. Helps if they're asked one by one. There was a lot there, Councillor Plopper. In terms of visual impact. Yeah, absolutely. As you, depending on the direction you're approaching and so on, you'll see the site. But as you saw in the sections, it's it's a rising landform. So they're not exactly. Well, one, they're not exactly large and two, they're not exactly breaching the skylines and the colouring is very dark and recessive. And if they were bright white set against the forestry and agricultural backdrop, yeah, that would catch your eye. And we certainly see enough white rendered houses in the countryside that are eye catching because of the choice of materials. But the material palette and the scale of the building here really would make these recessive in the landscape. And as I say, it's set against the rising landform. And if you're looking from the Benakee Centre, well, obviously it's enclosed itself by woodland. But if you were looking from the road westwards, you're looking to woodland beyond and a hill rising beyond. So really don't consider this to have any real significant visual impact. In terms of the access, the local road networks, absolutely fine. I mean, we have, as I've said, there is a high footfall generating use adjacent in the Benakee Centre. And I doubt many people walk to it from the wider catchment because they're probably coming here to walk up and walk along the ridge of Benakee or possibly even starting off walking the Gordon Way. But the road network's absolutely fine to accommodate a high level of traffic that is going to the Benakee Centre. So half a dozen cars at once if all these pods are booked out is not going to cause any great shakes to the safety and functionality of the local road network. Cycling, no, I'm not aware of any real dedicated, separate core paths. Any cycling would be on the local road network. And again, I'm sure there must be a high amount of people that would cycle the Benakee Centre to then go up there. So again, the network copes as is, and the increase from six small glamping pods is not significant in either regard. Was that everything, Councillor Clopater, or did I miss one of your questions? Thank you Neil. Councillor Brown. You're muted Sarah. You're muted, sorry. Is that better? It's maybe my headphone. Can you hear me now? Yeah, sorry. I noticed one of the objections mentioned impact, possible impact on the water course. I'm sorry I'm scrolling through it from the hot tubs. And I know you mentioned, CPERT mentioned in that I know they were consulted, but they didn't consider it a significant enough application. I'm really sorry I'm scrolling, I should have highlighted. I know it's private water. I just wondered if you could comment any further on that, because obviously hot tubs and, you know, turnover in the volume of water that would be required to maintain. I just wondered if you could comment from environmental and health perspective and the fact that CPERT have obviously not been involved to extend. Hot tubs don't constantly refill and flush their systems. They're a self circulating body which can gross you out to a degree because it's the same water that sits for a considerable period. But it's got its own filtration system and it treats that water with its own chemicals, whether it's chlorine, bromine, whatever. It's not filling up on a regular basis and emptying on a regular basis. It's the same water for countless visitors to these pods, but it's sterilised in its own system. That is how a hot tub works. OK, so there's no issue basically, Councillor Brown. It doesn't affect the foul drainage. I found the detail now of what I'd read, and it was the cumulative impact from the water from the development and especially from the cleaning cycle of six 200 gallon plus hot tubs. We changed the pH of the water in the Crackey burn, which joins the Hervey burn flowing into the River Don. And that was the comment that was sort of alluded to. I think that was the there was one word in there. The circulation of the hot tubs and that that is what they are. They circulate their own water and treat their own water. So it's not on CPAS radar. It's not something that falls into controlled activities, regulations or anything like that. So again, everything is all OK in that regard. Thank you. Are you happy with that, Sarah? Thank you. Thank you. Neil, you have now put us all off using public hot tubs. Yeah, quite. Councillor Ross. Thank you. I'm not going to comment on the hot tubs, but however, I have a question regarding the water supply. It's a private water supply. Am I correct in thinking that if we have a hot, dry summers that there will be adequate resources in the private water supply to provide water for this development? Yes, with with with any private water supply, we make sure there's two key things that need to be right for any development to be accepted in terms of its connection to private water supplies. And that is quantity of water. First, that you're not going to have a detrimental impact on existing users of the supply and that there is then sufficient quantity to serve this development. And that goes for all seasons and all weather conditions. So so, yes, there will be quantity. And the second consideration relates to quality. And that is about the the well, the water quality, the safety is for human consumption to drink it. And that's where this one ran into quite a unique and strange situation in that there was there was radon found in the water supply when it was tested. And it's an incredibly rare thing. It's legislation changed not too long ago, and apparently there's only a tiny, tiny area in the whole country that has this radon issue that could potentially affect water and lo and behold, this development found it. So the quality and quantity testing is all fine. And while condition two, as I mentioned, reaffirm the water safety aspect, the quality aspect. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor Ross and thank you, Neil. Just a couple of short questions from myself, if you don't mind. My questions were actually based on what's already been answered, so I should be short and sweet. We are happy. I hope that all foul water discharged from the site is adequately treated and there will be no issues with that. And my second question is, we have a large green area to the rear of the pods. Would the development be able to use that for camping with or without permissions? And so to touch on the first point about the foul. Yeah, there is a foul treatment plant to the north of the pods and stuff, and that's there fully filtered and treat the foul water. And so, yes, all good in that regard as well. Yeah, the open space, it's there and it could be cut lawn for recreation, for picnicking, for kicking a ball about, for whatever. But yeah, people can pitch a tent anywhere without planning control. So it could be used by tents. Perhaps as a question we should ask the speaker in the next part. Thank you, Neil. Hi, can I ask Jennifer Ross to make a presentation to a maximum of five minutes, please? Hello, yes. Can you hear me OK? Yes. OK, thank you. I would just like to outline some of the key considerations of the application in order to reduce the impact of the development and address some of the concerns raised by public representations. An analysis of the land under ownership of the applicant was carried out to determine the most appropriate site for the gramping pods. The area of land proposed for development is considered to be of little ecological value and not prime agricultural land. There's an existing access track which will provide access to the site and shooting the fields to the west where there is higher ecological value will remain undeveloped. Furthermore, the proposed site is located in the field nearest to private water supply, which will make servicing the site more efficient. It is important to the applicant to minimize the impact of the development on the land. Therefore, pods have been positioned to sit within the natural slope of the site to reduce the need to excavate and upfill. The pods have been spaced out for privacy, allowing visitors to enjoy the open space and any closer together and the enjoyment of the rural setting would be compromised. The closest pod is in excess of 80 meters from the Benahe footpath with dense woodland to the north, separating the site from the path. There's also an existing mature tree belt to the west of the site, which will provide further screening as the path meanders northwest towards Mither Tap. There are no plans to remove any trees from the proposed site to accommodate the pods and the applicant intends to plant trees and a wildflower garden to the north of the site, which will increase the wildlife and biodiversity on the site. In terms of form and materials, the pods are designed to be complementary of the surrounding area, providing a modern approach to the more traditional timber pods that are commonly associated with glamping sites. Metal cladding is used throughout Aberdeenshire, not only on agricultural buildings, but also in domestic dwellings as an alternative to traditional slates. It is a high quality material that requires less maintenance than timber cladding and will not deteriorate over time. As noted in the local development plan, the Benahe centre is used as an example of a high value tourist destination. It is expected that the proposed glamping site will directly support the centre, encouraging visitors to stay in the area for longer than a day visit. Although not connected to a settlement, the main appeal of this type of holiday accommodation is that it is within a rural and fairly secluded location. Those visiting the site are seeking a peaceful break in a unique countryside setting. This is difficult to achieve within very close proximity to a settlement. There is no similar accommodation offered in the area, which makes this a desirable destination and will not impact on any existing facilities. Visit Aberdeenshire have offered their support as the development will enhance the existing quality tourism offering in the northeast of Scotland and it will enhance the attractiveness for visitors, providing associated economic benefits. It should also be noted that there are 27 letters of support for this application. In terms of technical items, the application has demonstrated that the site can be adequately serviced by the existing access road. The development will be serviced by public drainage system and supplied by a private water supply. The pods have been designed and orientated to benefit from solar gains, reducing the reliance on heating systems and artificial lighting. Solar panels are also proposed to further reduce the reliance on the power grid. There are no objections from any consultees. In summary, the proposed development will encourage people to visit rural Aberdeenshire and contribute towards the tourism industry in the local area, particularly the Benhe Centre. It will provide accommodation that is of a scale and appearance appropriate to the rural setting. It will offer visitors the opportunity to enjoy the peaceful, unique countryside setting and it will enhance the biodiversity on the site, creating areas that will attract wildlife, insects and birds. Thank you very much. And does anyone have any questions? Thank you, Jennifer. And to repeat the question, do members have any questions for Jennifer? Councillor Clover. Yes. Good morning, Jennifer. I was going to ask, and I already asked it, are your pods are built or would be built in a sustainable way? And are they, for instance, could they be considered temporary of nature, you know, movable? They wouldn't be movable in terms of the way some traditional glamping pods are built. And they would have, as Neil mentioned earlier, they would be built of timber-flamed construction. So they would be on stilts, if you like, with a suspended timber floor so that we would reduce the concrete that was on site, but they would have a concrete foundation. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor Copper. Any other questions for Jennifer? No questions. OK, one quick question, which I alluded to earlier with Neil. Do you have any plans to offer camping on this site? I see there's a green field just behind, a green patch just behind the pods. No, there's no intention for camping. I think that area can be used for recreation. And the pods have been positioned where they are to allow the occupants of the pods to enjoy the views up to Benahe, which I think having tents in front of that would spoil the view. And it's, you know, it's quite a high quality development. So it's not the intention to have the opportunity for camping as well. Thank you, Jennifer. Jennifer, do you feel that you have had a full and fair hearing and opportunity to present your case? Yes, thank you. Thank you. Members, do you have sufficient information to determine this application? If not, what do you require from whom? If a site visit is sought, clarify what the purpose of the visit will be. So members, do you have sufficient information? Yes. Thank you. Shall we move on to the discussion? Does anyone want to say anything about this topic? Thanks, Chair, and I'll come in as one of the local members on this one with my position in terms of what I think we should do. And whilst I note the objections, I would actually move that we accept the recommendations before us and grant the proposal. I recognise some people have some concerns around this, but I think knowing the location and knowing where the field is and what the planner has said, I do think that it wouldn't be that visually detrimental to the landscape area. And I do think that we need to absolutely sell Benahe and the opportunities on it as a tourist opportunity. And I think that we don't do enough of that. And I think actually this would be a widely sought after location for tourists to come to as well. So I think that outweighs any of the potential downsides that have been highlighted, and I think it's been done sensitively and in a way that will fit in with the surrounding area. So my motion would be to grant the application. Thank you, Councillor Petrie. Any other members wish to comment or forward an amendment? No. Nothing. OK. For myself, I mirror much of what Councillor Petrie has said. I was quite concerned at the comments regarding water supply, foul water and all the rest of it. But I'm reasonably content that that hasn't been dealt with, particularly the radon issue. So I think on balance, yes, we should probably support this. Do we have any comments? No. Just to double check we don't have an amendment. No. We are unanimous on this decision. Yes. Excuse me while I scroll my screen down. OK. Kirsty, could you confirm that the decision is unanimous and record such? Thank you, Chair. Noted that down. Sorry, can I just clarify? I don't think anybody officially seconded that, Councillor. Ah, my apologies, my apologies. Councillor Crawford, are you seconding this motion? Yes, please. I'd be happy to second. Thank you. Are you happy, Barbara, now, that my omission has been rectified? Yeah, just to make sure that our motion has been made and been seconded. Thank you. My mistake. OK, so. We're happy with that decision. Going to item six. Education, Children's Services Year End Performance Monitoring Report 2023 2024. Council priorities and the speaker will be Avril Nickle. Avril, over to you. Good morning, Chair. Good morning, members. I'm pleased to attend Mar area committee this morning to provide an update on how the ECS directorate has contributed to the council's overarching. Sorry. Strategic priorities within the Mar area through the year twenty three, twenty four. I'm firstly pleased to note that within the Mar area, almost all performance indicators are on target. We continue to see positive performance in English literacy and numeracy, where we have seen increase increases in attainment achieved since pre Covid levels. In numeracy, there does remain some variation between people's achieving expected levels in primary one and primary seven, and work is underway to understand and address this variability within individual schools and through our own ongoing work as a directorate. Within the senior phase of school, positive destination rates have not returned to their high levels of pre Covid, but Mar figures do remain higher than the Aberdeenshire and the national figures. There are a range of reasons which may sit behind this overall dip nationally, including economic downturn leading to fewer employment opportunities, a reduction in available college or university courses and young people being less willing to move away from home for a variety of reasons post pandemic. Senior phase attainment has broadly been maintained since pre Covid and whilst there is a reduction in the percentage of senior phase people's achieving three or more SCQF level six awards by the end of S5. There is by the same token, a 30% increase in the number of young people taking a foundation apprenticeship qualification, which have the same status as a level six qualification and have the same currency when applying for university courses. From an LLE perspective, the LLE estate remains largely in a satisfactory condition across Mar. There has been a reduction in the number of sport and physical activity participants, but this is perhaps due to the reduced programme on offer during the holiday period. And now that the additional funding we had been in receipt of for Covid has been removed. Chair, that is my formal notes. Happy to take questions. Thank you. Thank you Avril. Here we go. Councillor Brown, you have a question. Thank you. Hi Avril, thanks very much for the introduction and the report in front of us. Some really good news and fantastic work to be celebrated and I pick up on page 120 all the fantastic work that we're doing. We should be rightly proud of the work the council achieves offering foundation apprenticeship opportunities to our young people. And it's on that note, I just wanted to ask, just it's very difficult geographically I think in Mar and Mar's a huge area anyway. And I know there's so much great work that goes on with partnerships and businesses and, you know, even our own opportunities through our care homes locally for our young people. But when I think about, I think it was in front of UCS earlier in the year as well, the subject breadth or opportunities of placements for some young people in a Boyne Academy compared to Alford for example, I think it's smaller and I know the answer is just because the geographical element of where it's located and sort of the travel time and the opportunities but it was just to sort of explore any more of that amazing work that can be done to offer young people a broader range compared to other academies. I don't mean to be comparatively less or better or worse or anything like that, it was just to explore and really understand a bit more about, you know, is there anything else that can be done to offer a broader range in more remote areas therefore? Thank you for that and I will share my thoughts on this but I do think as referenced that the economic position and I will say employers' confidence will play a part in that future growth and that diversity I would suggest. And as you know, we have a great team supporting Foundation apprenticeships and our DYW work in the round and I think that they are constantly looking for the broadening, as you suggest, of opportunities across the piece. But undoubtedly, geography and travel times etc. do have a bearing on what is possible but, you know, endeavouring to do for all of our young people the best that we can in that regard. Thank you. Thank you Avril. Councillor Crawford. Yes, good morning Avril and thank you for coming to committee today and, you know, giving us this insight, a great report and really happy to see all the good news. There is one item that I'm not completely sure about and if there's perhaps some insight that you can offer there. It's on page 4 or page 1120 I think. It says the total numbers of participants using services etc. are lower than the aspirational targets and I know it says something about, and you're probably the one that can give us some insight, there seems to be like a sort of number kind of thing going on here. I don't really understand it, so can you perhaps give some more insight there? Thanks. Thank you. In terms of the uptake and participation levels, whilst those are not where we would want them to be, work is ongoing. The reality of the free offer of holiday provision, of course, had a very positive impact in those able to take up opportunities. Now that that funding has come to an end, it's more of a challenge. There are other aspects, if I could talk about, you know, in MAR, participation in active schools programmes, for example, has gone up 10% against the same period of last year and a female participation is growing, you know, 9% in that same period too. So we have good news stories, things are improving. Some of the things that, again, cost of living etc. may impact the ability for people to participate. Our take up for programmes under our Live Life Well banner, our health and wellbeing programmes for people with long term conditions. For example, in the MAR area, we've had 579 referrals, 77% female and 23% male. And so, sorry, that's a Shire wide picture, you know, 8% of those have come from MAR. And I think, again, we need to look at each part of the Shire and what are the needs and our understanding of our community and growing the programmes that best meet, you know, people in that area, people in those communities, individuals, etc. We've had a good uptake of things like our health check programme, 19% of that, our programme has been delivered in MAR. And again, you know, supporting people with a healthier lifestyle and everything from their blood pressure being taken and highlighting issues and getting people to go in and seek medical advice, etc. So we have, you know, an improving picture, not where we would want to be, but working hard on that, Councillor Cooper, I hope that helps. Thank you for that. Councillor Ross. Thank you. Good morning, Avril, and thank you for the report. On page 116, 4.6.1, various risks have been highlighted or identified as relevant to this matter on a strategic level, and I would like to bring it down to a MAR level. First of all, the first bullet point, it says that to have better integrated working arrangements within ECS in the pursuit of improved outcomes for children and young people. And this is going to be quite a difficult question to ask, but how are you going to achieve that? So I am perhaps not the best person to come and talk to that specifically, Councillor Ross, but again, I will do my best to have a bit of a go at this. So in terms of the integrated working across ECS, as you know, we have our new head of education in Susan Smith, who has come in, and obviously that's when any change happens in such a way, we have a look at how we can continually improve things. I think you will see in the coming period some changes structurally within ECS, which will support that more integrated approach. So where early years has sat within the directorate and some changes in that that will be coming during next session are all about supporting that improvement and improved outcomes for individual pupils. And say, you know, I think that that is where we're at as a directorate. Change is a constant, but it's about change to improve things and looking at how we can work best together and how things sit better together within the directorate to enable that cohesive learning journey and pathway. Can I come back, please, Chair? May I come back, please, Chair? Yes. Thank you for that explanation. That was very helpful, Avril. With that in mind, we have been, and I'm going to say in the D side corridor, had some alarm bells ringing over the last 18 months, two years with school reports. And I first of all want to praise the head teachers, the teaching staff and all the pupils and parents regarding this, because I know that work has been ongoing. I welcome the approach that ECS has taken, and I'm going to say improvements coming forward that perhaps Susan Smith is going to bring. Because not in MAR, but in K&M, I noticed that Port Lethin Academy has had alarm bells ringing there as well with inspection reports. So I think it's really important that we try and keep on top of this. And as I say, I want to praise the work that the head teachers in, I'm going to say, the D side corridor, because we've had several schools have taken going forward to address these issues. My next question would be regarding the third risk that has been identified, to have improved business support and resource management arrangements in place across ECS. How is that going to happen? And would there be any interdepartmental work with economic development regarding this? Thank you. So in terms of economic development specifically, I couldn't comment on that. I'm not seeing that as part of our thinking at this time, not to discount it, but within our own directorate and looking at our resources and the allocation of those. Again, linked to the improvement and specific target setting, I would suggest, is also where things are continually under review. We are all going to be fiscally challenged in every part of the organisation as we move forward. And I think it is incumbent on us as a directorate and within individual services to ensure that we are using the resources to the best impact and most efficiently. And I am sure that further discussion can be had on these things as we move forward. Thank you. That is interesting and helpful because economic development have the contacts in the business communities, as do business associations, and that is where you could get doors opened for more placements for foundation apprenticeships. So thank you. Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Councillor Ross. Any other questions for Raval? Any comments? No? We're very quiet this morning. Yeah, well, thank you, Avril. That's a very useful report and we're very pleased that you have boosted our confidence and that MAAR is the best area of Aberdeenshire. Number one, thank you very much for that. As if you could doubt that, Chair. Well, I'll be looking at other committees to make sure you don't make the same comment because, you know, you've got to get it right. The data tells the story. Thank you. Thank you. Right, thank you, everyone. Number seven on our agenda, draft place policy and strategy. Amanda Rowe. Amanda, over to you. Thank you, Chair, and I know Janelle would have liked to have been presenting this, given it is very much about place. It's just a timing thing that I happen to be here for this one. In terms of the report that's in front of you today, it is asking for your feedback on the draft place policy and the aligned strategy. Comments will be considered and reflected in the report going to full council on the 27th of June, and the Aberdeenshire Community Planning Partnership will also be asked to endorse the documents when they meet on the 5th of June. Councillors are asked to note that this work is being progressed under the current council plan and the priorities within that. However, once a new council plan has been approved, which is imminent, this will be taken into account as we work to develop those place plans. The documents in front of you have been developed by a cross-service working group, including planning and economic development, area manager teams, policy development officers, and a range of our colleagues have been part of this. It is a key driver to change. It is underpinned by a strategic place-based framework that will develop and enhance how we use data to inform local activity and how we engage and work with our communities. It's not about new teams being formed or necessarily recruiting additional people. It is about refocusing and emphasising the work we already deliver at a local level, but with a greater focus on what the data is telling us, and a much stronger emphasis on the importance of that community voice to help shape those local needs and the action that is then taken. The approach is recognising the challenges and, more importantly, opportunities that face the council and our partners. It's looking to build on current successes and deliberately supports partnership working to deliver evidence-based place and wellbeing outcomes across our communities, recognising that these outcomes are the starting point for all of our communities. The place policy is a council document and it's providing clear direction to officers of the requirement to work in a fundamentally different way. It's looking through a place lens at all our activity, ensuring we are joined up and collaborating on activities that will achieve the best outcomes for places. The strategy provides a greater detail on how the activity will be delivered. So, for example, there is a toolkit under development to ensure there is a level of consistency and approach, but allowing for those local differences. Once these documents are agreed, teams will work alongside partners to deliver the place plans. At the moment, it's 17 plans based on the academy towns, recognising that academy towns in the main are service centres, so they are places that communities will look to for some of their services. The place plans will be underpinned by the place and wellbeing outcomes, and that will be the common framework that we can use to also demonstrate progress. The holistic nature of the framework will require all 13 of those outcomes to be considered within each place plan. And with that consideration informed and supported by quantitative data, but very importantly, the qualitative information that the voices and perspectives of the local community feed in. While the production of the place plans is focusing on those main towns or those places that include our academies, that's not to the detriment of our smaller communities and settlements. It is recognised that for many of these services for the smaller communities are generally located in the larger towns, such as the academy themselves. And issues like accessibility and availability of services for smaller communities is something that is being considered as part of the place agenda. Communities continue to have that opportunity to develop their own community action plans or local place plans, depending on needs and aspirations. And we would see those informing what we are also doing at that larger level. And area and planning teams are already supporting our communities and groups who wish to progress those. Place plans will be owned within the council by place directors, with area managers and heads of service co-sponsoring activity, and then supported by local teams, as indicated in Appendix 3. This approach will ensure a strong leadership across the most senior levels of the organisation. Place teams will support activity, again with representation from all services, along with community representatives, partners and community organisations, to deliver a joined up approach to the delivery of services and an approach to the assets. Place teams for each place will reflect the different needs and requirements of that place, supported and informed by strong local data. The data may lead to different actions and requirements and priorities being identified for each place. However, because the approach to identifying those elements will be consistent, data led, using the place and wellbeing framework and using informed decision making, that should ensure that we are maintaining that level of equity in what we are doing. Place plans will be owned by the Aberdeenshire Community Planning Partnership and endorsed by area committees. To support this, the role of local community planning groups will be strengthened and we're looking at revised terms of reference, role, purpose and governance. I'm happy to take any comments on the papers. Thanks, Chair. Thank you, Amanda. We have some questions, I believe. Councillor Ross, you're first. Thank you, Chair. Good morning, Amanda. First of all, it's a very interesting document and I endorse it, but I've got some questions, please, which I would be grateful if you could answer. You've spoken about the place plans and it being focused on the academy towns, and first of all, I would like to praise Bankery Community Council and Susie Patterson for what they're doing in Bankery regarding this. They've got a survey out just now to the public for their thoughts on this. I think it's important. I think this is important because it's vitally important. I'm using the word important again. It's vital that communities views are taken into consideration when it comes to what their aspirations are. And this hopefully will be a tool that can be used to recognise that. There are communities that are not wanting to do place plans and endorse the place strategy. And my first question is, how is that going to be addressed? Because place plans, I understand, are not mandatory for being taken into consideration. For example, when they come before councillors in the future, action plans, we consider those. But place plans, the communities don't have to do them and we can pay reference to them, but they're not binding. So how is that going to work, please? Through you, Chair, it's absolutely clear that for smaller settlements, that if they do not wish to undertake community action plans or local place plans, then the wider place plan that links to the academy town may have less of their input. But we would be really clear that the academy towns, we wouldn't just be seeking those specific towns to engage, although it's absolutely superb that Bancory Community Council are already taking a strong community leadership role and starting to engage. But we would hope that those settlements that feed into that town, those settlements that perhaps are part of that academy cluster are also engaged with, because their views and thoughts on that town will be really important. We would be keen to encourage communities who feel they don't want to be part of the place plan. And for us as a council, we are committing that if this place policy and strategy is agreed, that those 17 settlements will have those place plans that we will work to, that we will use to ensure that we prioritise effectively. That's not to the detriment of our smaller settlements. And we would be really keen to see community action plans coming forward that we are part of, so that we know what those communities feel is important for us and our partners to focus on. But you're right, community action plans themselves are not statutory or mandatory. Local place plans, which are linked into the Planning Act, those do have a stronger voice when you are considering your planning decisions. If there is a local place plan for a community that clearly identifies their views on a particular asset piece of land within that community, if you were to receive planning applications, those local place plans do have a material weight, you can consider those. And if places do get those local place plans in this calendar year, then they will inform and influence the local development plan that's underway. So we would hope that communities will see real benefits in coming forward to be part of either the place plan that the council is developing along with partners, or developing their own community action plans, local place plans that we would see as also having a strong role in informing what we are doing. Thank you. That is very interesting. May I come back, please, Chair? Quickly, please. We have a lot of people wanting to speak. Thank you. That's fine. I'm going to play devil's advocate here a little bit. What happens if a place plan is put in place, it is created and completed, and then when it comes to committee, an item comes to committee, that place plan is, the aspirations of the community through the place plan are not recognized by committee. How is that going to work? That's my first question. My second question, as I've been asked to be succinct, is I see that you've got town centre first in there, you know, the town principal in there. However, what are we doing to engage with businesses? Because whilst businesses are in the town centre, there are also businesses in communities out with the town centre. So it's a wider thing than just a town centre first principal. And thirdly, you've talked about teams working alongside the partners. How exactly is that going to work, please? Thank you. Through you, Chair, in terms of if committee disagrees, because of place plans, we are suggesting are owned because they are co-developed, that collaborative kind of leadership approach. When they come forward for committee to endorse, if there is something that they disagree with and it is specific to the council, then that's obviously a debate and discussion we need to have about through that engagement process, through that development process. How have we managed to perhaps misinterpret or misunderstand a direction that perhaps elected members as representing their communities have not been comfortable with? So I think that's something we would want to really debate, because we're clear that whilst area committees are endorsing the elements within that place plan that have to be delivered by the council, you are agreeing to effectively because you are saying, yes, that is where we want to take that council role. So there has to be that dialogue with yourselves as those ward members throughout that process to ensure that the voice you bring into it is there. I would hope that we wouldn't get into that position where something has come through the community for the council that the council would be directly responsible for. That would be strongly at odds perhaps with our elected members. But in terms of the other aspirations, it's an endorsement in the same way that we endorse the local community plan. So there may be elements that you do not feel a strong way about and may want to caveat the endorsement of that plan to say that that piece there is something that you would not support to the same extent as something else. But if it's got that strong data-led approach, if it's the voice of community and it's something that they are keen to take forward, then we would look at how we manage that. Apologies, in terms of businesses, very clear that businesses are part of this, not just town centre businesses. We understand that there will be businesses throughout somewhere like Vancouver, there will be businesses that are not in that town centre. They will be in someone's home. They'll be on an industrial estate that's slightly out with. So we're really clear that our place economy executives, part of our economic development team, are absolutely around this. So we ensure that we have got that mechanism to engage with those businesses. And also, you will have an entrepreneurial business lead at the moment. I'm not sure who it is for your area, but we're engaging strongly with them because they are doing that almost pre-business piece. And those voices are also really important. So I can assure that our economic development colleagues are absolutely central to this. And in terms of working with teams and partners, we're looking at how we build on really good examples of how this works already. I believe in Huntley, there is a town team that is a strong town team. It is not council dominated. It is that partnership approach. And we're certainly looking to emulate, recognise the diversity of our communities. But we would be looking at how we can make that work, building on community planning experience and the experience of, for example, the Huntley town team. There's a Peterhead town team. So we'll look to build on those. But very clear, this is not just about the council. It is about how we work across the way. Thank you. Because also and also with references to businesses, but we are a rural area and the agricultural businesses are as and the estate businesses and tourism are as important. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor Ross. Yes, your point on communication with businesses is well made. And hopefully this could actually give a shot in the arm for people who want to set up business associations in order to create a unified voice for business all over Mar. Councillor Petrie. Thanks, Chair. And just to touch on what Amanda just said there, I will declare a slight interest as the chair of the Huntley town team. But just to say that I am supportive of the paper in front of us and the place planning policy, because I think we have seen some real benefits in Huntley, not necessarily because of the town team. But because we've done that real work and meaningful consultation with the community to get to where they want to be and to deliver stuff. And it means that getting the funding and getting the teamwork in place has been much easier. So there's huge benefits to come from this. And I think it's important that we deliver that across the shire. I also like that we have service leads for each of the main towns as well. I think that's really important. So rather just that area focus, we're getting that wider focus in from the council. Two slight points of concern. There's not an easy answer to this, but whilst I really support the place planning principle and I think that's really important to deliver what our communities need. I think the frustration we've had at area level is that so often things come to us and we comment on them, but it goes to policy committees or full council for a decision, at which point it does feel quite often like that local voice gets lost a little bit. So what, and it's almost the impossible question, but I think there has to be real change from the council and you said that we're going to have to work differently. I think there has to be a real commitment to doing that and to making sure that even at policy level and full council level, those place plans and area committee, that wasn't even a sentence, was it? Area committee comments was what I was trying to say there, are being taken into consideration constructively because otherwise we completely lose the point of the place. So I think that would be one comment and one plea as well to make sure that we don't lose that voice in there. And I can't remember what my second point was because I've not been able to structure sentences, but I think that was the main one, just in terms of making sure that we continue to keep the local voice in mind as we go through the process. Thank you. Just quickly through yourself, Chair, I think that illustration of the Huntley town team is absolutely why we are looking at that place approach. It's almost much more important to get that place working and build those relationships, the trust, and that can take a long time working with communities, I'm aware in Huntley. It's been a long process, and it has really started to demonstrate the results, but almost the plan is that it's not incidental because it's what then allows you to chase after that funding because you've got the project. But the real key part of place working is that working differently and working together and all kind of going in the same way. And it's all about that place. So I think that's the real change. You're absolutely right. We need to look at, fundamentally, what changes do we need to make to ensure that we can deliver that democratic peace with that place lens. Because right now, it isn't always obvious how that area translates through, and we work very hard to do that, but with the best will in the world, it doesn't always get there. So we're very clear we do need to do that piece of work to fundamentally reshape how place and the way we want to work absolutely feeds through. And that is a piece of work that we have just started to look at, and we'll be coming in to talk with our elected members about what difference does this need to make to the governance structures and how we do things. Chair, I've remembered my second point, if I can come back in quickly, I promise. And it was actually about meaningful consultation, which follows on from what you say, and I think we've learned, unfortunately, the painful lessons from doing to communities, not with communities. And again, I think that's where the town team has demonstrated quite well that, you know, if we're thinking about doing something in an area and we take it to that kind of forum, it does smooth the way sometimes for those conversations. And unfortunately, we've had other announcements. I don't want to say the word lamppost because it will create a bit of concern for my ward colleagues, but you know, when things are announced to our community and it's just being done, it causes real upset and it damages the relationship between us and the communities. So it's really just that plea for meaningful consultation going forward too. Thanks, Chair. Thank you, Councillor Petrie, and I very thoroughly endorse what you have just said for obvious reasons, and communications of key and consultation is so important. Meaningful, timely, you know, we've got to do it for communities, not against communities. Anyway, Councillor Turvey. Sorry. Oh, sorry. The key, the numbers seem to change. I do apologise. Councillor Turvey, if you could hold and Councillor Cooper, you can come in now. I do apologise. Was it deliberate? Thanks, Chair. You're doing a fine job anyway, so good stuff. Hello, Amanda. Nice to see you again and thank you for all the work done on this. I'm supportive of this in principle. Climate change gets recognised as a key threat and there is a sustainability climate change impact assessment. I see on page one hundred and fifty three, it says climate lens or, you know, I think that actually should say climate change lens. But I think it's important to discuss, you know, what is through the climate change lens? What does it mean? I think that's important that it gets clarified what this means. And I also feel that the consideration of climate change is not well defined and not reflected in this framework, as through the climate change lens is simply meaningless when leadership is not included in its definition. And I understand there are some tools going to be provided to the community, but I think this is optional. But as a council, we really need sustainability and climate change to be. It's our priority. It's our council priority. And we really need to have our communities including this in their placement. So it's just more of a comment. But I don't know. I wouldn't mind hearing your view on that. Thank you, Amanda. Do you want to say something? Yeah, thank you. And through you, Chair, I'm happy to take that back in terms of making sure that's defined appropriately. The place and wellbeing outcomes do allow us to include that element of the impact within our consideration. I'm aware that for a number of our communities, it is becoming much more important and it is sometimes about how we explain the different ways we do things to ensure that what we are doing is supporting that approach, whether that's around our biodiversity, whether it's around looking at different ways we can do our energy renewal. So it is absolutely part of that framework, but I absolutely accept that I will take that back and make sure it is strengthened because it's absolutely key. And we're really keen within this that the voice of our young people is key. And we fully understand we've got a young person's group in Peterhead and that climate change is really, really important. And it is about changing the language so very much about changing away from food banks and that sort of thing. They are much more connected to it's about reducing food waste. It's about pre-loved and vintage and retro. So we absolutely recognise we can be stronger on that. Thank you. Do you want to come back, Anouk? Is that fine? No, thank you, Amanda. That's really reassuring to hear. Thank you for taking that back. Thank you. Thanks a lot, Tarbi. Yeah, thank you very much, Amanda, for the presentation. And yes, I'm sure that Shanta would like everyone doing it, but we hope that she's having a good rest. I will say that first, it's so important that we are engaging the communities as much as possible in the taking of the future of the Abilene Shire and the area. I will point out that, as Councilor Ross says, the community councils are working so hard to get it done. Some are struggling for the time and finances that can cost to have a place plan sorted. And I think that they deserve a bit of merit and maybe in the future to find a way that the Council can support them more in that matters. Because it just works. If you want to ask someone to do it for you, it's kind of very costly. Yes, and I think that supporting more of the community council because they are volunteers, they are doing that in their spare time, that's important. And also, I want to ask, you know, society changes quite sometimes very fast. And we saw that the last few years with the pandemic, people's habits changed overnight, working from home, everything. What's the vision we have in the fluidity and the amendments and the changes that we're having and what terms wise we have on those plans? Thank you, Chair. Just recognising that first point about supporting our communities, in particular those community groups or leaders within those communities, engaging as well. There is some financial support for those communities who are looking at things like the local place plans. There is funding available to help them with that engagement. So hopefully that will allow some of those communities to engage if at the moment that's their barrier. In terms of the timelines for the plan, we are looking at them being longer plans because we realise that things won't change overnight. So we are looking at them being lengthened in time. We're kind of looking at five to 10 years, but I'm very aware in some places the plans will be potentially longer. So I can't speak for MAR, but I know in Buchan the plan for Peterhead actually is running to 2040 and the drivers for that are because we know there are things happening over the next 15 years that we really, with the community, we want to be ready for and we want to ensure they're there. But it is about then being quite agile with those action plans that support it. So whilst we might have a plan that's looking well ahead, we'd be looking at those action plans being much swifter and allowing changes and priorities and we will be getting the data through more regularly. We've just had our set of town centre health checks through. We've had the data zones, the analysts have put forward the data zones. Our strategic assessment is updated every two years. So we do get changing information coming forward. So whilst we see these as long term plans, we would be looking at them being reviewed frequently, a little bit like we do with the local community plans. We set them for three to five years, but we do like touch reviews frequently to ensure that we are agile to move in terms of anything that's coming down the line. So hopefully that assures that it's not going to be something that we set now and in five years time, we're still working to that, regardless of what has changed, we are still working to a five year plan. We've built in that ability to flex as we need to. May I come back one second, chair, please? Yes, if you're quick, please. Yes. So I think in that case, the most very important, even more in our communication to the local communities and groups and, you know, all the people living here is how the participation will impact not in the coming three, five years, but like, you know, in the really future for like nearly a half a generation. Good point. Now, who's next? Councillor Brown. Thanks, chair. Thank you, Amanda, for the report in front of us and your introduction. We've got a fantastic group in Baldwin looking at local place plan, and they are very well engaged and progressed and have done a power of work, you know, across the diversity of the community, young people as well, focused on sort of completing the work in time of, you know, the submission for the LDP element of the LDP. And I was just wondering when we look at the page 134, the place planning framework and, you know, the LDP and what sort of which arrows, which direction. I'm just wondering when it comes to the place plan that we're doing, you know, this place focused on academy towns. When I think about the context of a Boeing, they're looking very much on the geography of a Boeing, which is quite different in, you know, when it comes to the place of the academy, which is quite large and rural academy settlement. And who may rely on a Boeing, for example, is a more satellite town. So, you know, there is different identities and different needs, and I'm just wondering the connection and alignment between the local place plans in the Boeing, for example, and using that and how that will fit in with our academy level place plan, given the fact that, you know, the focus might be different. Will it be diluted? How will it align? Also, within the Boeing academy catchment, we have settlements within the CMPA area, and their whole process and LDP is obviously a slightly different alignment with ours as well. And we've got a community ballot are incredibly engaged in delivering a community action plan. They're not going down the local place plan sort of route. I guess I wanted to just understand a little bit further around, you know, our wonderful engaged communities doing their local place plan and how that actually fits in on the table with our academy focus, if that makes sense. It does. And I think it is something that has been, we're kind of, we're partly grappling with, because we felt we had to start somewhere. To my mind, if we've got local place plans and those are being worked through, they would absolutely be a building block to the wider plan. So they should be in there. I suppose, again, the only way I can kind of illustrate it is in Buchan, we have a Buchan community plan, but Peterhead has a locality plan. It's the one, it's the town that has the locality plan under the Community Empowerment Act. So we have nested the Peterhead plan into the Buchan community plan so it doesn't get lost. It's absolutely connected there, but it's not additional work for any of the local community planning partners, because they can see it's absolutely embedded in that Buchan plan. So I would be saying local place plans, community action plans should be coming through and nesting into that plan, because it's not just about council services, it is about all the partners. So it should be sitting in there. There may be some settlements where actually that that big place plan isn't right. I know colleagues in for Martin or Giri are saying, actually for that town that's got an academy in it, it's not a big service centre. So therefore, actually what you need there is very much more a community action plan type approach with us part of it, but totally led by the community, because the school's the thing that that means we are around it. So I think there will be a diverse range of these plans. We'll have a framework. We want those place and wellbeing outcomes to be what drives through. But what they look like in each area, each settlement will look slightly different to take account of that, what's required and where are the different partners around that. So somewhere like Huntley, which already has a plan, and that's the area that Janelle was suggesting goes first, because there's strong building blocks there. They've got completely different things in Huntley to what exists in Afford. So the place plans will be slightly different and the partners will be different to recognise that. So we're not going to be pushed down a very particular funnel. We will be seeing what's right. There will be some places I know in my area that there are settlements in my area that will actually look to Banff and Buchan towns, and they'll want to be part of those place plans. They'll not want to be part of a place plan in Buchan. And that's OK. We just need to work out collectively how we ensure that happens. So a little bit fluid, I think, but we recognise that. Thank you, Amanda. Are you happy with us? Thank you, Amanda. Yeah, I think there's no easy answer. The complexity of where we're going with this is absolutely right. And it's welcome that you're right, starting somewhere is a good place to start just to keep going and it will evolve. I think the essence of what I was, I guess, wanting to understand was that, you know, if the identity of an academy ultimately, Catherine might say, actually, we want an investment in council services in this, but the people of Aboyne that have done their local place plan will go in in a different direction with that. How would that tension or sort of friction be resolved? And I think that might just evolve. So I look forward to where this is going. Amanda, thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Amanda. Councillor Rush, you've already had quite a crack of the whip. So if you're very quick with your comment, please. I am. I will be succinct. Thank you. And that was very interesting. Councillor Brown touched on something there and I'm on the Cairngorms National Park Board and I was going to ask how you're going to liaise with the CMPA regarding these place plans, because they have big input to the CMPA areas of Aberdeenshire. And secondly, five to 10 years, five to 10 years, I would hedge more on the five years, because if you look at Bankery, a lot has happened very quickly. So it seems in Bankery and the village has changed and in maybe 10 years time, it'll be completely different from what it is now. Whereas, so I would hedge more on the five years. But thank you. OK, Councillor Rush. Thank you, Amanda. Yes, I think we've exhausted you and I think you will be very exhausted after all that. So just to say, can you acknowledge, team, that the recommendations at the end of this item are acknowledged and we shall take them forward just to be clear? So can we all acknowledge that the recommendations are accepted and their comments will be put forward as read? Yes, agreed. Agreed. OK, can we go back to actually the previous item, item six, and do the same? Can we acknowledge that we have taken cognizance of recommendations just to make sure that we keep everything tidy? As we all know, this is my first time in this position. I don't want to make too many mistakes. We all agree? Good. Thank you. Right. How do we feel about a break? It's now eleven thirty. Do we intend to crack on or when Kenneth is all there, ready and willing to go? But, you know, Amanda in particular might want a cup of tea. So do we want a break? Opinions, please? Yeah, I think that would be a useful change for five, ten minutes. OK. Ten minute break. It's now half past. We shall reconvene at eleven forty. Thank you.

Transcript

So the second part of our agenda. We've had a quick word with Amanda. We're hoping to get this done dusted before one so we probably won't need to take a lunch break but we'll see how we go. So we're now on to item eight Landscape Services Works Programme for 2024-25 and it's Ken Reagan who will present this paper. So over to you Kenneth. Thank you Chair. Good morning members. So I'm here today to present to you Landscape Services Review Work Programme for 2024-25 and we're looking for approval for the allocation of these funds. As members know Landscape Services team carried a wide range of grounds maintenance activities throughout parks, open spaces and burial grounds across Aberleenshire and carry out essential burial function in line with the council's statutory burial authority function. The report sets out a range of activities for 2024-25. Landscape Services budget cover a variety of different operational activities required to maintain cemeteries, parks, open spaces and country parks to meet the standards and expectations of local communities within Aberleenshire. This includes over 6425 acres of open space, 200 cemeteries, 447 player parks and 365 hectares of woodland. The team also arranges footwear weed controls in towns, villages and settlements and coordinates the rural roadside verge cutting contractors on behalf of colleagues in the Roads Department. Environmental concerns along with the increase in decline of natural species and habitats has escalated significantly in recent years and there is a corresponding need for the service to become more efficient and sustainable in the way our parks and open spaces are managed and maintained in future and as members will know council has signed up to the pollinator action plan which aims for at least 10% of public green space to be enhanced and managed for pollinators. To aid our meeting of this target officers are looking to continue the introduction of selected areas of uncooked grass as well as initiatives such as the no more may campaign and the service continues to expand its work with local community groups on a variety of issues to encourage pollinating, rewilding, community food growing initiatives. It's proposed that the work outlined in appendix one will be carried out during the current financial year and any part of the program that is not achieved will be reviewed and if appropriate carried forward and included for progression into 25/26. Where additional budget becomes available project listed on the reserve list may be implemented in the current financial year. Whilst available resources for 24/25 provide to be more challenging environment to deliver in some maintenance activities than in previous years the service is continuing to consider opportunities to assist local community groups in the delivery of some work where those groups have the capacity to do so. There are examples of such partnerships working with landscape services going back a number of years and our aim is to help facilitate more such arrangements where they can be achieved safely and effectively. In addition to the capital budget shown in appendix one for 2024/25 through to and including 25/26 the council has been given an allocation of over 3 million pounds from the Scottish government's capital allocation for renewal of play parks and the service is scoping up the process for the delivery of this program and communities are being very much involved in the project decision making process. The sum available across Aberdeenshire for 24/25 is 924 000 pounds of which 154 000 pounds has been allocated for more alone. That's my presentation chair and I'm happy to field any questions or comments from members please. Thank you Kenneth I think we may have one or two questions and Councillor Petrus first. Thanks chair a comment first of all I'm delighted to see the meadows football parks on there I think for a long time they have been in poor condition so some work there will be greatly appreciated and needed because we are struggling for space for our sports teams that play in that area and one query on that and not directly related to what the work that's being done is but the meadows football pitches have a significant issue with dog poo and dogs being exercised there and I know there is some signage but I've been in touch with Janelle about it and trying to follow this up but is there a way of us increasing the signage there or doing something just to make people aware that it's really not suitable for your dogs to be exercising there and more importantly to be leading dog poo there and a personal plea because my child now plays football there and I don't want him coming home covered in anything like that please and thank you but it's been a problem for a few years now so I just think we could do with some clearer signage and the second point was just in regards to the play park replacements I know that there's a few of the Huntley ones on the reserve list and I would just say that I know it as the Glastonode park but I think it's maybe the Glamourhawk park is how it's referred to here but it would be just if that would personally I think the time would rather see something new in there because they've not had anything new for a while than the Devon park I know the Devon park is maybe important in terms of tourism and the Nordic ski centre etc but I just think that we've not seen any change in the the Glastonode/Glamourhawk one for a while so my personal plea would be if there is a chance for us to access that reserve list that that's the one that gets priority. Thanks chair. Chair can I come back on a couple of points? Yes thank you. I quite agree with cancer Petri, I've got two children who play football and it's a universal problem and despite signage you could put all the signs of the world some irresponsible dog owners unfortunately don't clean up after their animals but we can certainly look at trying a ways to improve that and to try and prevent and try and educate people to be responsible dog owners. The other issue a number of the sites the play sites which are on our revenue program in the reserve list we may well look to use some of the Scottish government allocation we've got this year to fund some of those and I think that the funding ramps up next year. I think next year is the last year of the of this current phase of money so there will be more money next year so if it's certainly not on this year's funding we could certainly include it for next year's. Yeah I'll be with that Gwyneth you know to come back Oud. I endorse everything that Gwyneth said for the same reasons and being a work Councillor I totally agree with what she said. So who's next? Anne Ross, Councillor Ross. Thank you and good morning and thank you for the report. I would also like to thank you for your team's work in Bancri it is appreciated. I know how stretched they are so I appreciate everything that they do. I just have a couple of queries regarding first of all and I appreciate it's in here as an assessment but how big a problem do you think that the ash dieback and Dutch elm disease is within the cemeteries and also within the woods around Bancri and if it does prove well if it is a problem how are we going to be dealing with it that's my first question thank you. Oh chair it's ash dieback we're currently in the process of trying to establish the numbers of ash trees within the shire certainly within landscapes areas we're currently monitoring and identifying the species in play areas or in and around play areas and in our burial grounds and those areas of high footfall. We're also encouraging colleagues in the roads department to for their inspectors to ensure that they're recording the trees within falling distance of the of the road as well as schools in their settings so we've got to try and establish I don't think ash is a I mean ash is a significant tree I don't think it is in the same numbers as in other parts of the country but nevertheless it's it's the dependable location certainly since in recent weeks and months and I've been about you do notice you start to zone in and identify ash trees and there are some significant trees in fairly prominent locations and if it does hit it's it'll be as devastating to the ash population as Dutch elm was for the elms in the 70s and 80s. There is certainly some of the research I've read there are some species which some some of the some of the ash trees are immune and there's certainly a bit of research going on at the moment to try and clone those species to try and give it a natural for natural protection but I think it's fair to say that if we do get it in the area in significant numbers it will be you know quite devastating to those areas which have ash trees. Do you want to come back Councillor Ross? Yes please I would thank you. What I appreciate we'd have to take those trees down I would imagine would we be replanting and would we be replanting with a different native species perhaps or what would be the the strategy there and then I've just got one other question regarding a fence thank you. Chair it would always be our intention to try and replace any trees which are lost it might not be possible to replace in the immediate vicinity depends upon the individual locations but we would always look to try and replace any tree which are lost and we would always try and look to replace native species rather than rather than although we've got to factor in climate change and whether that will be appropriate you know in years to come but certainly replacing trees any tree which I felt we would look to do that. Thank you and finally you've on page 164 it talks about structural maintenance replace fence in Belfield Park can I ask which fence that is please? I'll can I come back to you Councillor on that please I'm not entirely sure myself so if if it's okay chair I'd like to take that off table and I can I can message the the ward councillors back directly on that. That would be great thank you very much. Thank you Councillor Ross. Councillor Clover. Yes thank you chair and good morning to Kenneth and good to see you here. I was just having a few questions so I'll just do them in one go and you know if it's not you know if you can't answer that's fine but I was just going to ask about well first of all thank you very much for for all the work by the teams in and particularly in ward 15 it's really really much appreciated and please pass on you know our thanks and first of all with regards to paragraph 3.4 there's mention of social behaviour anti-social behaviour would you have any example of of a partnership you know of what kind of partnership work has been done I mean if it's you know that's that's all right if it's not to be mentioned but I'm really really interested to hear and with regards to paragraph 3.6 how can a community ask for money to you know from the from the play park fund to be used in their in their particular play park or extension of play park because the way I read it on it says on page 172 that the initial initiative would come from the from the surface and as we know some communities are on a waiting list and as far as Nolan Fanen is with their request and we were of course told last year that you know it wouldn't happen because another community got you know was put prioritized which is fair enough but I mean there is initiative here so would it be possible to find out how that you know how that gets decided or how a community can actually be proactive there and I also wanted to comment on page 164 an appendix 15 and a half thousand biodiversity works can you give a you know an idea about what that has included and it looks a very good investment to make if it would for instance lead to you know what kind of impact has it got on your maintenance schedule because I'm really you know really interested to hear about investment can you know can lead to thank you okay sure on the issue of anti-social behavior we've got the green space projects for within landscape services and certainly the green space officers do a tremendous amount of community engagement and try and engage I guess the difficulty is sometimes those people who perhaps cause the anti-social behavior aren't those who are easily accessible but we do try through community councils and other community groups try and engage as wide a population as we can and the hope is I suppose that the more interest we get from the community the more natural surveillance there is the less likely anti-social activity or vandalism will occur because you've got more people using that site engaged in it invested in it and hopefully that I mean it's never ideal and as ward 15 members will know this weekend you know all the good work that the community did at the boy in green and there was a bit of vandalism there a number of trees were pulled up so it's never you know it's never there's never a perfect solution but hopefully by trying to buy our communities investing in some of these schemes and these initiatives they'll they'll feel you know less inclined to to tolerate any kind of poor behavior by other members of their community so that was then social behavior the player fund how we've allocated out how we've allocated resources in Aberdeenshire is we as I probably spoken before about this we regularly inspect our play equipment so the inspectors are monitoring maintenance and inspecting all the equipment with a view to obviously replacing anything which is worn or damaged or or vandalized we also have an independent inspector comes in once a year to just to make sure that what we're inspecting is correct we're not combined problems and part of that independent inspection they provide us with a an economic life expectancy for each individual item and so we've taken both the our own inspections and the independent inspectors as as the main sort of focus for pieces of equipment which are coming to the end of their economic life however we have we've got communities who've been fundraising we've used some of this money to match fund communities money so we can do that so if there's a community got an allocation of money fundraising for a piece of equipment we can use some of this Scottish government to match fund that I think last year we spent the bulk of the money on one project in in afford to try and improve the driveway to hockton park which again so the money doesn't necessarily have to be spent specifically on play equipment it can be spent on improving improving the experience of the visitor so that might be improving access drainage landforms as well as pieces of play equipment and sorry council what was the last point you made well can I yes okay um the last point I made was about the biodiversity works but I I wouldn't mind coming back on just this item that you said okay do that first and then I'll come back okay thank you thank you chair for you um um actually what I was mentioning was the is that perhaps a different allocation or not but it's the Scottish government capital allocation for renewal of play parks is that the one that we're just talked about yes that's the same allocation so it doesn't have to be sure it doesn't have to be um specifically play equipment it can be anything to improve the experience of the visitor to a play area so it could be footpaths um it could be drainage works anything related to that so it doesn't necessarily have to be replacing swings or slides or climbing frames okay um thank you um okay thank you thank you so is that is it so so the allocation that money the three million pounds that the government provided yeah we've got 900 000 this year it doesn't have to be spent on on replacing like flat play equipment but if you've got a site which is perhaps it's got play equipment in but but there's poor drainage that site so for big chunks of the year it's inaccessible the Scottish government said well you can spend that money on improving the drainage which makes the play park more accessible during those wet periods so it doesn't have to be spent on play equipment but um just that's an option for communities if they've got a site such as that or they want to put in a path which makes it easier for people with mobility issues again the money can be spent on that which makes it a bit more uh inclusive thank you yes no it was just a kind of um the thought is to you've pulled it all together and uh you know it would be nice if the wider community you know more communities could perhaps benefit from that allocation that was just my my thought and how that kind of gets decided okay so if you if you want you can perhaps send an email to Kenneth and he can uh more fully explain the ins and outs of this and myself or the team I'm down on LSO at the moment but we're hoping to interview tomorrow so we should have a new LSO in place for more uh within the next few weeks but I would be happy if any members have groups who want to meet we can meet with them and discuss their their particular options for for play equipment and see how we can spend that money as best we can and the other issue regarding biodiversity chair is that money spent primarily providing materials which working with community groups and we've had a number of instances this year where we've worked with groups planting fruit trees orchards bulb early spring and late flowering bulbs uh wildflower seeds at soil areas so it's a whole gamut of of areas um and it tends to be just for the materials and we often get the labour from from communities and and local groups good idea very good ideas and uh I thoroughly endorse those myself because we've got places like Rhiney and etc where we have a sort of idea going across and it goes down very well with local groups um also on behalf of Amart Area and Mowin Ward I'd like to thank the landscape services for the improvements to Hawketon Park oh here's Epay coming in with a question you were very slow yes we'd love we we love what you've done to Hawketon Park although we'd still like to see the the pond being improved it's still full of green slime and algae and that's and it's right at the beginning so something done with that would be superb we have a we have a continental chair with with our colleagues in the ranger service because we ideally we'd like to drain or dredge the park dredge a third of the pond every every year um but the range is like that whilst it looks a little bit unpleasant it hides all sorts of beasties and bugs and that so it's very good for for the ecology of the pond but uh I take on board your commentary and we'll try and work with them certainly during the winter months if we do some work to try and improve that good um one question before we go to Epay while it's still in my head when we have what control do we have of verdius where there's ash dieback or helm disease where you've got a very horrible looking tree that may or may not fall on the road do we would landscape services or another part of the council take to do with that to try and resolve that situation or would you just leave it to the um nature if it chair if it's the um if it's in threatening the the use of the highway the safety of the highway the the roads department have under the road scotland act have powers where they can force the landowner to to to make safe the vegetation and if they don't do it they can then employ a contractor and recharge the landowner I think sometimes I mean it tends to be used often where you've got branches which are affecting footpaths or signs things like that and often landowners don't know don't realize that their vegetation is affecting you know plus lots of people now jump in the cars drive to work come back and perhaps don't use the footpath outside their house so sometimes it might just be a conversation that you know the roads inspector with the land with the property owner um but if that doesn't work they they have powers they can serve a um um I think it's called an RSA road safety alert I think you're a naughties they can serve that on the on the property um and force them to to make safe the vegetation. Thank you Kenneth and back to Councillor Torrey. Yes thank you Kenneth and thank you for the presentation and all the work from the team around Maria and in my world you know World Bankery um and they decide. Quick question how is the plan to engage with communities and community councils for the plans you have for the play park etc so do you have a timeline do you have are you contacting every community councils I guess some some community councils are keen to you know discuss and engage with the landscape services I just think that it would be really nice to have you know that community engagement and you know before making decisions as I said you know do the what's what's most important needed for the for them is that we knew the equipment you know some other sort of equipment or it's like the path or access as you said thank you. We could do it multiple ways chair we can we'll we'll as I say the approach we've tended to take is look at the the most in need of replacing so those pieces of items which are coming to the end of their economic life we'll look to replace them as a priority and once we've identified that then we'll go out and engage with the local communities schools we're also we'll be doing this year using Engage Aberdeenshire to try and reach out to as many people as possible but as I said previously councillor and chair is if communities have particular projects they want to investigate if they come get in contact with us we'll happily speak with them and we can discuss that and see if there's a way we can move forward you know even if it's what this Scottish government money is available for this year and next year but even if it's outside that scope there may be other funding streams or funding opportunities we can perhaps try and tap into. Do you want to come back? Councillor Clover you seem eager to speak. Yes thank you sorry I just want to come back on this because I think it needs to be a little bit better organized and there was a community in my ward Lemfanen that very clearly asked for something that what you know taking into account anti-social behavior etc etc I wanted some very you know some very useful smaller extension to their play park and we were told that it was going to be this year hopefully and we're on some kind of waiting list but the procedure here is not very clear and I understand that you're doing this through Engage Aberdeenshire but what about the communities that perhaps I don't know because there's no oversight of this who have asked and are on this waiting list and just hope that this you know this will be clarified soon thanks. Okay chair what I could try and do is I'll get a list of the sites that we're proposing this year and I'll send them out to all the ward members so they can see where where we've got either groups or with areas of equipment which we've identified for replacement. Thank you for that Kenneth that would be a good idea. Councillor Ross your hand flashed and went down do you have something to say? Thank you chair no Ken's just answered what I was going to ask I was going to ask for local councillors to be included with Engage Aberdeenshire is a great tool but I would I also want local councillors to be included in what's going on as well so thank you but you've answered that thank you very much. Okay Councillor Ross right we have no more questions for you so can everyone agree and acknowledge the recommend there's no recommendations on this but the discussion and Kenneth will take it back and consider and get back to us with the various reports he's going to give us. Everyone happy? Good. Right Kenneth thank you you can go now and thank you enjoy the rest of your day. Thank you thank you members bye now take care. Right we're all on to item nine Mar area committee budget applications large grant and I shall pass you over to Kirsty Kirsty McLeod who will take us through this item. Thank you chair we need to we need to leave first. Oh yes sorry my apologies Kirsty could you confirm the the councillors who have to leave on this item and when? And I believe it was Councillor Brown and Turvey who were leaving for this item so I can see that Councillor Brown's left and I'll just remove Councillor Turvey from the meeting. Thank you. So this report seeks consideration of applications for funding through the committee's large grant scheme. 12 eligible applications have been received as listed at paragraph 3.1 of the report and with further details contained in appendix one. Just to advise the correction to the figures in the table at 3.1 the total eligible cost for mid-decide community trust application should be 6,840 and 50 percent of that would then be 3,420. So to assist with consideration all applications have been scored against a number of criteria. Scores are provided for guidance in appendix two with a scoring matrix provided in appendix three. The total amount applied for exceeds the 40,000 pounds large grant scheme allocation by around eleven and a half thousand. The committee may first wish to consider which applications it would wish to support in principle and as outlined in paragraph 3.5 if members are minded to support more applications than the allocation allows it is open to the committee to devour funds from the small grant scheme or to award less than they applied for amounts. So the committee is asked to consider the applications and agree the allocation of funding and I'm happy to try and assist any questions. Right we have a quite a few decisions to make here and we can discuss first of all I think Councillor Durnell you've got a question first? Yes thank you chair sorry I'm just going to go back onto the other page again to get the hard top. It was really just to ask Kirsty, it's page 181 and it's the Bancree community football club Tillybreak sport complex upgrade and they're applying for five thousand pounds. First question is I know there was discussions about the football group leasing I think is maybe the right term Tillybreak park because it does form part of a Bancree academy school grounds for football and formerly rugby but the park is in a bit of a state and it's not actually used for rugby anymore. So I need to know first of all has there been an agreement that the football club are leasing this before we decide who gets money? Not that I'm against what the football club want to do but obviously you know this is council owned land it does belong to Bancree academy so just an answer to that question first thank you. I'm not sure the exact whether it's the lease agreement that's in place but the project is being delivered in partnership with the council and the Bancree community football club so all the agreements around it are in place. Okay I have other questions around this. I'm a bit concerned that has the community been consulted on this because I do not want to repeat off what happened to another play area and you know if we're being asked to agree funding for something we need to know especially local members are the community aware of this at all or is it are the talks still ongoing? That's what I'm trying to ask thanks. I'm sorry councilor and I'm just looking and they haven't provided details of what consultation has been undertaken within their application. I know that Janelle and other members of the team were working with them but I'm sorry I'm not certain of what consultation has taken place to date. Okay I suppose what I'm trying to say then is I've got no objection to this but I am concerned that the community that surround that playing field haven't been consulted and are not aware of what's going on. Anyway I'll let some of my other colleagues to come in. Well one's already excluded themselves from the discussions so I'm not sure if councilor Ross has anything to add to that. Thank you. I'll give you a comment. It's an interesting comment however because I don't know particularly the consultation side of things but I'm not sure what we could do there. Amanda could ask for advice on this. Is there a way forward on that? Just having a look at your the scoring mechanism I can see that at criteria eight it did score low Kirsty and I think Janelle was involved in this scoring so I don't know whether that potentially means that they didn't evidence that that hasn't been done or if it's a it hasn't been done. You are looking at an over subscription to your overall amount of money and that's one of the the decisions you have to make. There may be the opportunity if members were minded to be supportive of this but you wanted to see evidence of community consultation that you could seek to defer and but you would have to take that into account when you make your next some of your decisions or you could determine not to award because you're not satisfied that there is the community support behind it and I guess because you're two of the members left and I think they left because they were part of this particular group or had links to it but that would be your options would be to defer to to receive further information if you're reminded or you seek to refuse and they could come in at a later date. Does that help? Yes I certainly wouldn't want to refuse because I know what the I know what the overall plan is for that but I am like I say I don't want to get caught out again put it that way without the community actually being having been consulted because of a situation that happens somewhere else. So I would like evidence that there has been a consultation and just possibly do it that way rather than refuse. Thank you. Thank you. I'm concerned that this discussion could be quite complex and grow arms and legs given that we're over subscribed. So I think that's one of the decisions we're really going to have to focus down on but before we do that I'll take in Councillor Ross and then Councillor Crawford. So Councillor Ross. Thank you I agree with Councillor Durno. Whilst I'm aware of the ethos behind this and the football club's concern regarding the lack of facilities in Bancroix we've and I we were all told a long time ago that they wanted to do this. I am concerned that local councillors are not up to speed on this in that we haven't been advised that it was that this idea was at the point of going ahead and raising money to do it. So I have got concerns regarding this. I've also got concerns regarding consultation of the community that live around this area. As Councillor Durno has said we are very short of football facilities in Bancroix. I would not want to defer this either. I know they're wanting to raise a lot of money for it from this evident here but I have to endorse what Councillor Durno has said. So I would not want to refuse it and I would also ask what time scale are they talking about. They've said ambitious time scale. The key risks is ambitious time scale fundraising circa 900,000 still to secure. What sort of time scale are they talking about and I would like to know more about where they are, what's happening and also from the council's perspective as well. So I'm not adverse to this and I would not want to defer but I want more information please. Yeah I can come back in on the time scale that they have provided in their application which is they would be aiming for securing planning permission in summer, finalising funding by August and then completion of tenders by October with project completion by the end of the financial year by March 2025 which we did feel was quite an ambitious time scale when we were doing the scoring of the application. Could I come back and ask for local councillors to get a briefing on where we are with this please. This is separate to whether we defer or not because we need to be up to date with what's going on. If there have been conversations with officers surely the local councillors should be involved in this. That's a fair comment Councillor Ross but if we ask for a report on this what relevance will that have on the funds that are being requested today? Amanda could ask for advice on that please. I might also ask for our legal colleague to come in. I mean I think I would be suggesting that if it's something that you feel is a positive project for funding and you are asking for a briefing it may be that the briefing would potentially demonstrate that that ambitious time scale is too ambitious and in which case you could make a decision that the briefing then for local members makes them feel slightly uncomfortable. I do wonder if it's I think this maybe is one that I would suggest you could make a tentative decision. You could say you're minded to approve it but on the basis that that you are provided with the further information that demonstrates consultation and that members local members are then aware of what the timelines are. I don't know whether in terms of the more detailed application there was more in that but I'll ask if you're okay chair I'll ask Barbara to come in and give a little bit of advice as well. I think Amanda, thank you chair, I think I would agree with you Amanda with your position that you could ask for that briefing and possibly tentatively decide that one today if that's what you're suggesting I think isn't it Amanda? So I would be in agreement with that I don't know if there's anything else I can really add or? Would the final condition final settlement as it were be conditional upon that briefing? Yes yeah that would be my understanding. Amanda would you agree with that? I think so I think it would probably be more around the evidence that there is community consultation being undertaken because I think if the community have been consulted and are supportive of it that probably suggests it's a positive project and hopefully the briefing then will bring local members up to speed. I think if there's been that community consultation members get the briefing and all the other scores are are apparent it puts members perhaps in a more difficult position about making a decision not to go forward so I suppose it's about what what's the key thing and the sense I'm getting from the two councils I've spoken is actually they do feel there is a need for this project but they're concerned that the community are perhaps not around it yet so I think that's possibly what members are seeking assurance on before determining to give the funding the briefing is an information source. Does that make sense? Does that for the councillors who asked for it would that satisfy? Councillor Ross, Councillor Dunnell not together but so I wasn't sure whether to put my hand up or or just come in there. Yeah yes I think so yes uh-huh there is concern that we need to be satisfied that the community have been consulted um because there is this is a big change to what exists already um so yes as long as we can be satisfied the community have been consulted yeah thank you. Councillor Ross do you concur? I do but there's community and community if you see what I mean there's the people that live around this area and then there's the wider community who are crying out for football provision so it so that whilst we're all one community and we recognize the need for this I also feel that there's community and community as I've illustrated thanks. Okay thank you Councillor Ross so Amanda are we clear as to how we're going to proceed? I think so and I think Councillor Ross that would be something you would be looking for is that if they demonstrate there has been community engagement you're looking at that has it have they have they engaged with those who are seeking those facilities or have they done that wider engagement and you will be able which includes those who who reside around the area so that would be something you would be looking to be satisfied on so I think um I think deferring if you're minded that this is something you would want to support but you want to see the community are on board with it then I think you either agree subject to being satisfied or you defer it to allow the officers to see more evidence and that to be presented to councillors and part of it will be I think back to your discussion chair about deciding the fact that you are oversubscribed and even if you don't agree this you're still oversubscribed I think is that right Kirsty? So you just need to be minded that if you defer or you agree subject to you are still oversubscribed for all of your other projects. Thank you I take it if we do agree to proceed with this project that we'll simply earmark the funds until the pieces come in that's good right okay um now to proceed um Councillor Crawford you're next? um yeah I just wondered if Gwyneth wanted to come in on the previous discussed no? It's about the process of this paper actually so it's it's I don't mind if I come in now or later. um well I think you can come in now Councillor Perksley but I think what you're going to say is probably what's in my mind. um potentially and and I think it's just a frustration that when we get this paper you know what we're seeing in front of us is there's still a lot of question marks and I'm just wondering it makes it really hard to make a decision today but I don't want to defer the decision because I you know these groups have to deliver it within this year so it's important we take the decisions that we can today. I'm just wondering going forward if it's possible um Kirsty if we can maybe arrange a workshop to look at what we do in terms of what comes before committee because I'm wondering it would have been useful to see the application forms because I think that would have provided more detail and I think it would give us a bit more background and I wonder if it would then allow us to ask the questions before committee next time this comes to us so that we have the information we need before we make the decisions because I think it's just quite frustrating that we are where we are and we want to give out the money but there's a lot of question marks over it so I just would ask if we can have some kind of area workshop around how we present this in future. Okay so proceeding today um shall we take each one well should we just. Oh sorry. Oh do you want to say something sorry. Well yes my hand was coming down or was taken down I'm not sure what happened so um I just wanted to ask something and that is exactly you know um project looks amazing that the Scottish um sculpture workshop I have no pre you know no prior understanding at all of where this is and I just had questions like where where is it what you know what schools or what area is involved um and is it just for one year I mean other than that I mean this would yeah it looks like an amazing project. Kirsty do you want to come back it's in Lumsden actually um but Kirsty. Yes it's in Lumsden and the funding it would be specifically for um the this summer holidays and the October holidays um and they have specifically referred to um sessions with the schools in Lumsden, Towie, Strathden, Crathie and uh Afford Academy and Gordon schools um doing outreach sessions and referrals through those schools. Can I come back on on that one more question Kirsty? Yes. Have they have they considered like transport in their application? It doesn't look like there's a mention of um transport within that. How do children and young people get to the project where and it's in Lumsden of course so how do they get there? Can't immediately see that being covered in the the information in the application but that's something we could get some further information from them and come back. Thank you for that uh if we require if we're requesting that information would that um alter what we're going to do today as in should we decide on on the project today or put it off till next time? Amanda? Um again it's it's if you're minded to um if it's a one that you feel is worth supporting but you have concerns about how that transport piece will be um managed again you can agree to fund on the basis that there is further information forthcoming on how transport um is is is managed for those kind of outreach or those who are um not so close to the the Lumsden workshop itself. Thank you um any more questions or comments nothing so to get through this what perhaps what we should do first of all is uh does anyone have any objection to any of the projects as in should they all be funded um and if they are all to be funded fully should we take money from the uh small grant applications uh small grant fund to fund this um I see Councillor Petra you perhaps have a suggestion? It was it was just specifically on one of the projects if that's the stage we're at in terms of maybe discounting some of them yes they might have to be um quite hard-nosed about this but I do have some concerns around the assistance dog Scotland one purely because um they are based in our ward and I think that they provide a really valuable service but my concern is that I don't think that service delivery is purely to the ward or the mar area and so if we are going to give them mar area funds I don't think we can control that that would purely benefit our area um and I just think that are perhaps better places for them to go for funding particularly for training etc unless Kirsty has any other information in terms of that being delivered purely within the ward or mar um having had a look at their website I think they're actually based in keith and they deliver across the northeast so I would just have some concerns about us funding us from this particular pot I think if we look at the other projects they're all very much focused on delivering for the actual mar area and so I would prefer to give the funding to some of those specific projects. So reasonable point Kirsty? I think the the funds were intended the training was for the staff working in their new Huntly hub area um but that might serve a wider area I'm not sure. Are there any other comments on any of any of the other projects? Councillor Crawford? Yeah so we're looking at I think the second last on the list with the lowest priority um sorry I'm trying to find it back the lowest scoring is the the mid-deset community trust um at 22 so is do I understand it well that the lowest um kind of priority or a scoring um you know without those last two are we within our allocation then? Kirsty can you check the figures please? I'll just check them just now um so without the bottom two that would still be um eight and a half thousand over. Right. Can we ask for comments from members please uh whether we would be accept removing the two bottom the 18 scoring 22 scoring for assistance dogs and mid-deset community trust is it acceptable that we should remove those from the program? I agree with that. Any other comments? If it's within our within you know if that takes us through that's perhaps the kind of the the fairest um kind of way of deciding this um I would still want to kind of ask about the transport for the Lambston project if that's possible. Yes I think that we've taken that as an action okay we shall do that um and if we if we take this view of the bottom two being removed uh it helps matters a wee bit but it doesn't mean that that project won't go ahead we'll just ask we'll just earmark the funds for them if that makes sense. Can you do you want to say anything Amanda? No I think that's um acceptable if you if that's the decision you can move forward in that way. Councillor Ross you had your hand up are you you want to make a comment? You've you've reached consensus so um I'm happy with that thanks. Okay so the consensus of the committee is that uh we fund all projects by the two low-scoring ones which are the Medeside Community Trust and the Assistance Dog Scotland um so we're all content with that? Yes okay moving on um we are still short Kirsty you mentioned 8,000 odd pounds. Yes although I'll just correct myself if we'd cap it at the 50 percent of eligible costs it's five thousand seven hundred and sixty six pounds that it's over. Thank you now we do have funds in the small grant application pot um which are is it twenty four thousand we have left there? Gwyneth before I say anything else you want to come in? Sorry me again um just with the suggestion going forward I think um there are some quite significant risks on some of these but I think the rest of them I would quite like to see delivered so I think my suggestion would be that we for now move the funds from the small grants on the basis that for the last couple of years we've not completely spent our small grant allocation um but I think the realistic outcome of this is that these projects will not all deliver in the time scales and so we may not have to um distribute all that money um hopefully not I would like to be proved wrong for them all to get the money and to see this all delivered within the year but um I think I would be comfortable on the basis of of what I just said that we move some from the small grant scheme and it might maybe that we get it back and we're able to deliver some more small grants um but we've not fully um allocated that money in the last couple of years so I think that makes sense. Yes any other observations or comments? We seem content on that so Kirsty um I think we are we will be looking at taking money from the small grants and passing it over to the larger grants um and we could move that on please. So just to confirm our decision we're going to take the uh the balance that is required the five thousand pound odds from the small grants to the large grants uh to balance things up. Right okay that finishes item nine uh item 10 small grant applications again Kirsty. Thank you chair and so this report asks the committee to consider oh I will just make sure we bring back in Councillor Brown and Councillor Turvey. Oh yes. So I was just going to say I think it was just item nine they were removed for. That's both those members um back now and so the this report asks the committee to consider two applications for funding through the small grant scheme these are from Orb's community bookshop towards a marketing cost and program design and print for a festival of illustration to be held in Huntley and from glass school parent council towards setting up a community cabin library at the school. There are sufficient funds remaining in the small grants budget and I'm happy to assist with any questions. Thank you Kirsty. Any comments from members? Any questions? Councillor Petry. I'll come in again and everyone will be fed up appearing for me but given that they're both within our ward chair and just to say supportive of both the projects the first one I think in the history particularly the literal the history with literature I'll phrase it that way because it's easier and in the area is really important and it's nice to see in the bookshop doing some real work around promoting that so happy to support that. In terms of the glass one um what we have in glass is a really remote rural area um and I think this kind of forward-looking planning and vision is is brilliant to see and so happy to support that one as well in the hope that actually um it's something that other areas can maybe replicate as well but in terms of bringing the community into the school and and that multi-age mixing and everything I think it's a brilliant project so happy to support and hopefully see that one um come to fruition as well. Thank you Councillor Petry uh and I agree and I'm going to have to find something somewhere that I disagree with you on um this it's not good anyway um any other comments or observations? No I'll be happy that these two small applications go through. Yes so they're both approved thank you. All right um I can confirm that the public section of the meeting has now concluded and that the recording will be stopped. Thank you for your interest in this business. Members of the committee will now go on to consider exempt or confidential business without the press and public present. Can I confirm that the recording has