Transcript

Welcome to the Children's Overview and Scrutiny Committee this evening. As I've just said, my name is Sheila Boswell and I'm the chair of this committee. So we have formalities to go through first. I just need to do a roll call, so I'm going to call out councillors' names. Councillor Apps. Good evening, Chair. Councillor Birchall. Good evening. Councillor Corner. Good evening. Councillor Crivelli. Good evening. Councillor Davies. Good evening. Councillor Lee. Good evening. Councillor Paul. Good evening. Councillor Osborne. Good evening, everybody. And Councillor Owens. Good evening, everyone. Now, this committee also has a number of co-opted members, so I would like to welcome our co-opted members, Mr. Anthony Langdon, a parent governor, Ms. Haroon, parent governor, Mrs. Irene Walsenholm from the Southwark Diocese Board of Education Church of England, and I believe joining us online is Ms. Sam Gower from the Catholic Diocese. Is she with me? Welcome, Sam. I know this is the first time you're joining us, so you are most welcome. Thank you. I would also like to welcome our cabinet member for children, Councillor Kate Stock. Good evening, everybody. So, we always have just an introduction of what's topical at these committee meetings as we open, and there's some very, very good news, something for us all at Warnsworth Council to be proud of, because we have won the Gold Award for Supportive Employer of the Year at the Social Worker of the Year Awards, which is really commendable. It's an impressive accolade, and it is a testament, of course, to the dedication and hard work of our skilled social workers, and the very special supportive ethos that is championed here at Warnsworth's Children's Services. It's very, very important to support our staff, particularly in this directorate. By investing in well-being and professional development, our social workers achieve amazing outcomes for our children and deliver exceptional services for all our children and families. And this award is a wonderful reflection of their collective commitment, our collective commitment to excellence and the outstanding contributions of our social workers. So, congratulations, everybody, officers, social workers, everyone involved. Really fantastic. And then, also, we've had White Ribbon Day, which was held on the 25th of November, which you'll know is a day dedicated to raising awareness about violence against women and girls and promoting gender equality. And those of you who were at the last committee will be aware that we heard from the voices of those with lived experience of domestic abuse at the last committee and their first-hand experience, and I know it made a really big impact on us all. And one of the purposes of White Ribbon Day is to have these conversations to talk about violence against women and to talk about it in the community and with our partners so that we all work together and have a collective action on this to create a safer society. And then, finally, I wanted to say, as we consider the information presented to us tonight in all the papers, we should keep in mind that our collective aim is to ensure that all children have the opportunities and resources that they need to thrive, that all our children have that. And by working together and collaboratively closely with our communities, that we strive to create an inclusive environment where all our children feel safe and valued and empowered. And through our commitment to working in partnership with our families, schools, and community organizations, we build this supportive network that fosters the well-being and development of all our children in Wandsworth. Thank you. We can now move to agenda items. The first thing I have to do is ask for declarations of interest. Are there any declarations of interest? Nope. Co-opted members, I just need to remind you on voting that you only vote on papers that have an education function. And there are three papers this evening which you will be voting on because they have an education function. And I'll signal that when we get to them. But it should also be indicated. I'm just getting to the minutes. And Ms. Olsen-Holm, we've received some amendments to the minutes. I've got them here. You have them there, yes. I can read them out so that you know that we've got them. The first point was you said that you are not employed by the SDBE, SDBE, that you're a board member and representing the SDBE, the Scyther Diocese at the meeting. We've corrected that. And in item five, page four, it says, Abscox and Wyatt stated that she would be abstaining from the vote because of the declaration of interest. And this should say, Ms. Olsen-Holm stated that she would be abstaining from the vote because of the declaration of interest. Is that correct? That's correct, yes. Thank you. We can sign that off now. Thank you. Thank you so much for that. Right. That's it. Does anybody else have anything on the minutes, any comments on the minutes? Are they going to be updated from based – are the minutes that are currently published going to be updated or was your – did you just say that they have already been updated? It will be included in the minutes. Okay. I just wanted to quickly say something about the order of the agenda. Now, I'm aware that we have many people in the public gallery from Bradstow School and that we have that item quite low down on the agenda. I'm not going to bring it to the front of the agenda, to number one, because we have a paper on our forthcoming youth strategy and we also then have a paper on play and an enormous amount of work has gone into both of those papers by officers, staff, people in the community, and those have been put back for this meeting. So we're going to take those two papers, but we will take the Bradstow paper after that at three. So we are – we're bringing that forward in the agenda. Sorry, that will be five, number five. We will take the Bradstow paper. Is that agreed? Yeah. Great. Thank you very much. So, we can go to the first paper then, the Young Wandsworth Strategy, paper number 24335. We've all got in front of you or have it online. This council is committed to providing all young people with the support they need and deserve to fulfill their lifetime ambitions. And we want to do this in partnership with our partners, schools, health, community, voluntary and faith groups. And together we want to create opportunities for education, employment and personal development, fostering a supportive environment where all our young people can thrive. And this is what this strategy is setting out to do. Engaging our young people empowers them to contribute to the community's overall growth and resilience. And I am going to hand over to Kat Wyatt to introduce this paper. Thank you, Councillor Boswell. And good evening, committee. I am absolutely delighted to be here today and share with you the Young Wandsworth Strategy. As our vision sets out, all Wandsworth young people deserve the best opportunities to enable them to thrive. And that is why, in conjunction with feedback from our community, voluntary organisations, stakeholders and our young people, we've devised this strategy. Genuine co-production is at the heart of this strategy. You will see that the strategy is bold and ambitious, and rightly so. Our young people's lives don't stand still, so nor can the services and support that we deliver. The strategy will deliver a responsive, dynamic and modern youth offer reflective of Wandsworth young people's needs, developed with clear guiding principles, a robust delivery plan and with clear success measures. We're already working with the National Youth Agency to undertake a gap analysis to inform the delivery of our youth strategy, but also support our aspirations as a borough to achieve the National Youth Agency quality mark by 2026. The external scrutiny that will be provided by the National Youth Agency is invaluable as we undertake this learning journey to delivering outstanding youth services across the partnership. The youth strategy will support improving life course outcomes for young people aged 5 to 18 and up to 25 years of age with additional needs. Committee will note that I've said 5 to 18. Nationally, the provision and model for youth services is 8 to 18. We know that in Wandsworth we have a fabulous 0 to 5 offer through our children's centres, but there are 13,000 5 to 8-year-olds living in Wandsworth. The youth strategy will ensure services support all young people by extending the reach. We'll work with our schools to identify the right youth work interventions and identify locations to deliver youth services support to our 5 to 8-year-olds. We will build trusted relationships with all young people, 5 to 18 and up to 25 with additional needs. We know that to deliver our ambitious youth strategy, we can't do this alone. We're working hard to forge relationships with community and voluntary organisations and as part of the new youth strategy, we will develop a Wandsworth Youth Partnership Board. I'm delighted to share with Committee that having shared the draft terms of reference, we've had an overwhelmingly positive response from our community and voluntary organisations about their willingness to be involved. This board will bring together partners across the youth sector in Wandsworth to have data-led conversations. It will enable equity and decision-making and draw on the collective knowledge and skills to equip the partnership to deliver outstanding youth services. Importantly, by bringing together resources, we enable the partnership to be responsive to young people's needs and to collectively explore the delivery of services. This is a really exciting chapter for Wandsworth and all young people and I welcome comments and questions from Committee. Thank you very much. Straight out of the blocks, lots of questions on this great paper. Councillor Davies. Thank you so much for this paper. It's really very exciting. I recognise the importance of targeting the earlier years to create the very best opportunities for all children to thrive and this expanded offer to include children as young as eight is very welcome. But can you tell us more about how our settings across Wandsworth will meet all the needs of the different needs of children across the diverse age range? Thank you. Thank you, Councillor. So, within the strategy, we plan to build on the existing offer for our 8 to 18-year-olds. So, really reaching out into our communities to find young people who are not already accessing those youth services. So, really thinking in terms of expanding our visibility and accessibility through our outreach youth work and actually mobilising out of our youth bases to go and meet those young people in the spaces and places where they are. Building those trusted relationships and supporting young people through the provision of youth work. We're also looking to expand our detached youth offer as well. So, actually reaching into our estates and places using our mobile assets where our young people are to engage them in the places and spaces where they are, build those trusted relationships and support them to access services. We're also taking a place-based approach to working with our community voluntary and faith organisations who already have well-established relationships with young people in our communities and how we can develop and build on those trusted relationships. Through listening to our children of that 5 to 8 age group, they tell us that actually for that informal youth work offer, they want to explore arts, movement, dance, physical activity to really help to bolter their social and emotional development. We've seen some fantastic work already in some of our primary schools in terms of that informal education youth work after-school provision. So, we're really keen to learn and develop that offer, working with our community and voluntary organisations around how we can expand that offer to our 5 to 8-year-olds. Councillor Osborne and then Councillor Corner. Yes, the first thing to say is it is noteworthy how ambitious this programme is and I think that's welcome and it's important that this committee takes note of it. I think it's a dramatic departure for this council to put youth provision so close to the centre of what we do. Very important and very much to be welcomed. But I'm interested in what you say about work with the National Youth Agency. I used to work in the sector many years ago when I was young and knew the National Youth Agency very well some decades ago. And I'm interested in that and its quality, Mark. If there's anything extra you want to say about that, please feel free because I'm interested in you developing your comments on that if there's anything more to say this evening. But I suppose I do have a question. The question is, this is so dramatic, so central, to put this provision so central in the work of the council. What do you really feel this means for young people? What does it mean for our own officer team? And what do you think it means for the partner community organisations that we work with? Thank you, Councillor. In response to your question regarding the quality mark, so we're ambitious for all young people in Wandsworth. And actually in terms of that, so succession measures, the quality mark will help us to hold ourselves to account for those success measures. So the ambition is that we want to push boundaries with our offer, that actually we want to be innovative, but also that we want our youth provision to be owned by our own people. And the quality mark will help us to do that. Working with the youth agency to undertake the gap analysis will really help us to think about how we're delivering it. So three national occupational standards for youth work and the framework that's set. And just to touch on those, so in terms of the first one is young people's personal and social development at the heart of what we're talking about in our ambition and our strategy. The quality of youth work, and again about ensuring that our officers have the tools and skills to deliver outstanding youth work, but also in terms of that leadership and management as well in terms of the direction of travel. In order to achieve the quality kite mark, the youth offer provision has to demonstrate a culture of learning, reflection, innovation and ambition. And hopefully that's what you felt through this strategy in terms of measuring that success of what a claim to deliver. In terms of what this means for our young people, this is about saying that actually we want to change the life course for young people in Wandsworth. We want to give them the skills to enable them to thrive. Whether that is the skills through social emotional development, through giving the tools, through digital devices, but also about giving those tools through just having somebody to talk to. We know that growing up is difficult for many young people and actually building those trusted relationships with young people is so important to help them to really thrive. In terms of our officers, and when we think about our workforce across our youth partnership, we want to think about our whole youth partnership. We've touched on working in collaboration with our youth and community organisations and we want to share those skills and knowledge across so that everybody working with young people is equipped with the tools to deliver outstanding youth work so that actually the quality of provision is the same wherever a young person attends. And for our partners and our community organisations, they're really keen to work with us. They want to be part of this journey. They want to be alongside us. They're ambitious in the strategy as well. They are committed as we are to delivering the best outcomes for our young people in Wandsworth. So they're really excited by the opportunity and I think the response to the terms of reference for the youth partnership board demonstrates the level of energy, excitement and commitment from our colleagues across the sector. Councillor Corner and then Councillor Butch. Thank you, Chair, and thank you, Ms. Watt, for coming to the committee with this paper and for your presentation. I think it's got some excellent stuff in it and I associate myself with Councillor Osborne's comments about how ambitious it is. One question I do have is around what success looks like and that's detailed quite extensively in the pack along with what it means for young children. But what is perhaps missing is how we will measure success and how we know we've been successful. Would you be able to comment on that and maybe commit to bringing forward more information on that in the future if you can't provide it today? Thank you, Councillor. In terms of how we measure the success, we've set some ambitious tangible targets as part of our strategy, but as I've reflected, co-production is at the heart of this strategy, Councillor. So actually, it needs to be iterative. We need to be working with our young people along the way. And actually, as I've expressed as part of the national quality market, it's about that learning journey. So actually, along that learning journey, seeing where we're doing well, being reflective, and where we need to make changes along that. The national quality framework will help us to hold ourselves to account in terms of those measures because actually, we may not see initially the impact of youth work, but actually, this is about changing the life course outcomes for our young people in Wandsworth. So I'm sure along the journey, you're welcome to come back to the committee and share how the progress. Councillor Bertrand, then Councillor Owens, then Councillor Apps. I would like to agree that this is an exciting paper and a lot of hard work. So thank you for doing it. I was just wondering what you will be offering the children with special needs and, yes, all of the children with special needs all the way up. What's it going to look like? Thank you, Councillor. And a very important question. So we'll be working with our colleagues currently through the short breaks offer that is offered to our children with additional needs in Wandsworth. We have an exemplary offer to our children with additional needs, but it's recognised that actually, at the moment, that offer doesn't extend beyond 18. So actually, there's some dialogue around how do we continue to support young people with additional needs to access informal education up to 25, as is the youth work framework. So we're already exploring with providers who are already providing some of that support about how that could potentially be extended up to 25. So we talk about those trusted relationships. We talk about continuity for children, particularly where they have additional needs. So how we can extend that offer to them up to 25. Councillor Owens. Thank you. Just a couple of points. Obviously, like everyone else, very much welcome this fantastic paper. I was particularly pleased to see that obviously, unlike the national strategy, you're doing something for five to eight-year-olds because they are particularly, as we know, a cohort that were badly affected by the pandemic. And obviously, they were sort of not necessarily at school at that time and missed out on play and, you know, time with other nurseries and learning. I also know that during the pandemic, there was money available, let's see, it was at the time from the government for some form of outreach for children going back. I know that because one of my children was that age at the time and it was lots of voluntary groups quite happy to get involved with that set up. My other question was to do with the digital side. Are you planning to work with the schools that are not community schools in terms of laptops because my children are in an academy and I certainly know of children that don't have laptops and we have all had to buy them. But obviously, those from disadvantaged backgrounds should perhaps have them even in the academies. and my final point was just on there's a map and I noticed my counsel to my left's ward wasn't on it which was on page five. I didn't see Wandsworth Common on that little map of the most recent school census data with the 50 highest population areas but she's in Wandsworth Common. That should be on the map. Thank you. Is it there? It's not there. It's not there. Sorry, it's there. It's not there. It's quite a loud name. It's okay. Apologies, Councillor Willa. Ensure that's amended on the map. If I take the first question regarding five to eight-year-olds, as you say, these are children who were growing up through the pandemic and actually in terms of particularly around their social and emotional development and having had dialogue with primary head teachers that's recognised and they're really excited in terms of this offer to our five to eight-year-olds and I think it's an exciting conversation to have through our youth partnership board as well so that actually as a collective partnership we're thinking about how we're supporting those five to eight-year-olds feeding in the voice of the child through that co-production to ensure that the support that we're offering is actually the support that they need and they're going to engage with. Michael, did you want to take a question? So we work through Power2Connect obviously on digital skills in the borough and our digital inequalities. As part of that we recycle council laptops on the whole. Power2Connect has provided nearly 4,000 laptops throughout the council and throughout the borough over the last couple of years of which the council has been the predominant donator of those laptops Power2Connect goes out to every single school in the borough asking whether they have demand so that is where we work with the schools. I don't think there is a school that hasn't received laptops from Power2Connect over the years. Councillor Apps I think you had the next question and then Councillor Corner would like to come back. Thank you. Thank you. Looking at the scale of ambition in this paper it's really clear that we can only really achieve this by working in collaboration with the community the voluntary the faith sectors so it's great that you've kind of harnessed that power but I'm really interested to know how you involved them in shaping the strategy as a whole and what kind of ideas they input into that. Thank you Councillor having been in Wandsworth now for just under 12 weeks but actually a lot of that time has been spent out and about meeting our community voluntary and faith sector organisations and alongside our young people as well. I think I've reached about 35 youth and voluntary organisations just spent time listening about what's working well what are the challenges but also what are the opportunities also I think it was three days into my role as well I met with the youth council as well because whilst everyone in this room is incredibly important they are the most important people so really hearing from our young people about what they're looking for as well. We've also had the benefit of a number of surveys and strategies that have been written recently in terms of our place that you're going to hear about in a moment but also in terms of our leisure strategy our library strategy of how we've drawn on the input as well from our partners and Wandsworth is a really diverse borough and there's some fantastic work being delivered by a real range of community and voluntary organisations and drawing their voices around actually saying we want to be alongside you on this journey allow us to be alongside you utilise our expertise we know for example that we have pockets in Wandsworth where there's high levels of youth provision currently and other areas where it lacks and actually what our community and voluntary organisations are saying to us we want to come together and actually think creatively how together we can actually more evenly distribute those resources across so that we can support all young people and we really see the Wandsworth Youth Partnership Board as being the driving vehicle for that by having a shared and equitable seat around the table in terms of decision making and thinking how we work together to work through the challenges in response to our young people so whilst it's been great to hear from the partnership and organisations as part of shaping the strategy actually it continues to be an iterative process and they will be instrumental in helping us to deliver it yes Councillor Stock would like to come in I just wanted to come in on that point as well Councillor Lapps just to affirm what Miss Wyatt said in terms of youth voice and that being at the centre of this strategy and at centre of what we hope to deliver going forward but just to really emphasise that partnership working as is in Kat's or Miss White's title you know is absolutely central to how we want to work with children and families going forward and I'm really really pleased to hear how it sounds like there's been a positive reception for our voluntary community and faith partners really thinking about how we're going to recognise and understand the need using our data kind of collectively and how we're going to think who is best placed to meet that need in the place at the right place at the right time and it might not always be the council we recognise we recognise that but what's important is that children have kind of trusted relationships in order to deliver the best outcomes and deliver a positive future for them so I just wanted to emphasise how important that is to the way we want to move forward with this strategy and thank you for the work that she has done going out and speaking to all those partners so far Thank you Councillor Stock Councillor Corner and then Councillor Crivelli Thank you Jay I'd just like to ask a question on a follow-up question really to Councillor Owen's question on the subject of laptops on page 17 of the pack it said that this strategy will deliver 600 laptops to ensure that all young people are better connected and still in digital literacy I think that's commendable in the KPIs report on page 149 it actually says that more laptops are needed as demand exceeds supply at the moment and it's I assume that's where the 600 figures come from and the committee should also note that I think it's page 18 of Labour's 2022 manifesto said that we will keep in place successful schemes to make sure that all children have the laptops and data that they need to learn so a question really for Councillor Stock is is she satisfied that this strategy will deliver on this policy and will the children have the amount of data they need along with the laptops and finally can she give the committee assurances that by the end of this council term not a single child or school will say that they need a laptop or data for a child in the borough thank you councillor corner for that question absolutely that is our ambition I'm sure councillor you're aware of the council across the council's ambition for in relation to access for all our work will always be targeted first of all on those who need those resources and that is right and we've got to make sure that those pupils who don't have access to laptop and data and I'm very clear on that I think you're entirely right about that it's not just about laptop I agree we need to identify those children we also need to get the devices working with partners and I know the council has provided a lot of laptops itself to power to connect but I know power to connect and Ms. Hallett can come in and perhaps share some more information are working hard with other partners to ensure that we are working towards that figure and working towards our ambition of all children I think you've previously asked a question about the data and the monitoring of that and I think Ms. O'Connor has shared that we don't have access to that type of data so that would be something that is difficult but absolutely that is our ambition and it goes further than that you know I'm really proud of the work we're doing in terms of our partnership with Apple to make sure that you know within schools children have access to the latest technology and that's really being embedded in their learning in the classroom and I've seen some excellent examples of that very recently at Johns Burns primary school there's a lot to be proud of there and that partnership is continuing to make sure not only devices are in the classroom with children but also they're having digital coding lessons digital skills lessons and working with parents as well to ensure they have the necessary skills to support children at home and with their own professional development and returning to work or continuing work as well I'll hand over to Mr Hallick perhaps for a little bit more information on our partnership with Power2Connect just a little bit more so in probably since that was written the council's donated 250 laptops in the last four weeks so we're a long way to that demand just in a month so they are going through a replenishing cycle so that means more laptops are coming and there's definite commitment behind it for more very brief I just think it's I think that all sounds good but it's really clear that we it's really important that we need to be clear on what data is data is like you know the ability to connect the laptops to the internet where families can't afford the internet connection I think it's really important that that's looked into in order for that that pledge to be delivered because I think it's actually a pledge that you know command broad support again I know that power to connect also provide provide data so perhaps mr. Hallett can share some information around around that we do rely on people coming to us and majority of that is schools or voluntary organizations so where there is a request we log that and we do facilitate it we don't find a huge huge amount of demand for the data especially as much as we used to my colleague here Matthew just mentioned there's free Wi-Fi and libraries and quite a few places that does support that as well so I don't believe we have any unmet actual request doesn't mean it isn't out there but what we know of obviously we have digital champions in the community we have a lot of work going on digital sessions every single day of the week now from CapA to connect we every single session people can ask whether they want data and those at the end of those sessions they get a laptop as well the full course so yeah there's a lot being done and obviously private providers also provide on top of the council but the council is the biggest provider by quite a bit thank you very much I have Councillor Crivelli and then I have Ms. I think Madam Chairman I might be queue skipping if you call me I think Ms. Haroon's a hand up well in advance I do have a question but I'll cede to thank you very much I'm so sorry I didn't see you there Ms. Haroon thank you so you mentioned about universal and targeted offer so what comes under both and secondly what is the threshold to get this targeted youth offer thank you for your question universal is about reaching out to enabling open sessions so open youth work sessions where children and young people can attend so it's kind of unstructured universal youth work activity targeted would be when I talk about the detached activity for example so there's targeted activity until we've identified an area to reach out to young people into the spaces and places where they are taking our mobile assets to go out with them but also it might be that actually through that engagement with a young person there's a piece of work around supporting them to access ongoing services so for example so it could be around sexual health substance misuse employment needs so again there would be that targeted piece of work with that child to support them so it isn't just about that initial context but how we support them to access other services as well and sorry I asked what is the threshold for the targeted because normally when you talk about the targeted support is always like a threshold it's not for everyone so that's my understanding so is there any specific threshold so they can get this targeted support or it's for everyone so we move away from threshold because actually it's about it's about the needs of each young person and that will be different depending on the young person so actually every young person will receive the support that they need and that will look very different to different young people and that could be just a conversation support to access information online but others they mean more in terms of hand-holding so certainly when we're talking about a youth offer we don't talk about thresholds okay and on page number 30 you mentioned about extended offer for the same children so what do you mean by extended offer so in terms of the question we had slightly earlier in terms of at the moment we have a fantastic short breaks offer for our children and young people in Wandsworth that's highly accessed across our children with additional needs at the moment that stops at 18 because that's a statutory framework but actually we know through our youth offer we want to extend that informal youth work up to 25 for children young adults with additional needs so how do we extend that offer in terms of still meeting the needs and that will be a range of needs for our young people in terms of somewhere we want to promote inclusivity through those open access youth work sessions but there will be some young people where they need more specialist youth work provision to support them thank you very much Ms White I have Mr Crivelli have you Councillor Crivelli have you got a question yes I do can I ask page seven you've talked about recognizing mental health as a public priority paragraph 13 and I'm really glad to see that you know we're putting such a strong emphasis on on the issue of mental health for young people when I originally read this paragraph and you said you wanted every young person to have access to someone who they can talk to and who they trust I originally thought you were talking about somebody who could steer them on to the mental health pathway or engage them with mental health services but rereading it I thought perhaps maybe what you actually mean is access to someone they can talk to and who they trust you're talking about a confidant maybe a teacher or a youth worker or somebody who would be able to listen to them not necessarily give them mental health counselling but at least listen to them so that they feel that they're being listened to I was wondering first of all myself I got that interpretation correct and secondly can you tell me how you how you think you can bring that about that can I ask a second question on page 17 you've talked about increasing attendance and participation at youth hubs and clubs by 20 percent and I think that's you know a great idea and a great initiative to a great ambition to have I was just wondering about where do you get the target from and do you think you can realize that target I do like a challenge councillor and we did say the strategy is ambitious and bold in response to your first question your both of your summaries are correct because actually when we think about emotional and mental health support for young people it's a broad spectrum there are some young people that will need a targeted intervention through a structure whether that's through a structured or through our places place to be offer for example through our schools also operating through some of our family hubs some young people will need more a more formal mental health intervention through some of our statutory services but many of our young people say I just want someone to talk to actually I've had a really naff day at school and I'm just like somebody who understands what I've experienced and be able to offload to them talk them through and to understand that actually part of that could be about growing up so there's a huge investment as part of this strategy about upskilling our youth workers around feeling confident to have those conversations giving them those skills to have those conversations but also recognize when those conversations where the child might need more support than they can actually offer so it's about the spectrum of need but really understanding that not every child suddenly needs to be referred to CAMHS or for some form of structured intervention it's about giving them a space to listen and to be heard and and the target yes so through the strategy we've talked about increasing our outreach so lots of young people don't necessarily have that social capital to be able to know what's on offer in our youth hub for example so really what we do is to go out and reach those children and young people so go out and find the seldom seen and seldom heard young people engage those young people into our youth hubs and youth spaces to access the provision that's on offer so the 20% is ambitious but I think it's realistic. Thank you very much. Ms. Walson-Holm and then I think we'll go to voting. Thank you very much. I just wanted to ask about the sustainability of this so we've got some fantastically ambitious targets for 2026 but of course children take more than two years to grow up and so therefore we'll need to to continue this for well everybody I suppose so I was really wanting to ask how you could ensure that this wouldn't just be a flash in the pan. Thank you for your question and absolutely and that's why the Wandsworth Youth Partnership Board is so important because actually through working in collaboration with our community voluntary and faith sector it is about that sustainable modelling but also in terms of being responsive to young people's needs, children's needs are changing all the time so in terms of how we're being responsive to that but also thinking creatively about how we bring our resources together so we have that sustainable model of delivery also that continuum of exploring funding opportunities for example so that we can be creative and innovative and as we continue on that culture of learning journey. Thank you very much and thank you everybody for your questions and your interest in this very exciting paper and thank you Ms. White for all your work on this. So if we can go to the recommendations you'll find them on page four and the committee is recommended to support the recommendations at paragraph two. Do we support the recommendations at paragraph two? Thank you very much. Now we can move to the play strategy paper which sits very well with the youth strategy and in the interest of time I'm not going to do the preamble I'm going to go straight to Ms. McElligot who introduced this paper. Thank you councillor. Good evening everyone. I'm delighted to be here today to talk to you about our vision for play in Wandsworth. We want Wandsworth to be the absolute best place for children to grow up in. We want it to be a place where everyone values play as a life enriching experience. We want to raise awareness about the importance of play. Working with our partners, our schools, our libraries, health colleagues, the faith sector and local community organisations to ensure that every child in the borough has access to exciting and inclusive play opportunities in their local area. We know that opportunities for play have diminished in recent years. The pandemic meant that families lost access to play spaces and those all important opportunities for socialising and connecting with others. The rising cost of living means that many families now can't afford play activities or even the travel to get there and back. We know how important play is for children and families. It's crucial for healthy development, for establishing independence, for better health and wellbeing, for relationship building and connecting within local communities. We want to put play back at the top of everyone's agenda. So how exactly do we do that? Earlier this year we went out to the community to find out what the children and families in Wandsworth want. We ran an online consultation, went out to events, held focus groups and used this feedback to shape our vision for play and our key priorities. At the heart of our pledge for play is a commitment to access for all. We want Wandsworth to have the most compassionate and generous play offer there is. An investment of £4 million into Wandsworth play spaces as part of our decade of renewal. This is in addition to money that's already been pledged to spaces such as Tooting Lido Splash Zone or George Earing Football Pitch. We're committed to piloting our play shaping approach for play in Roehampton as part of the Alton region. We're continuing to invest in our family hubs and children's centres, ensuring they're welcoming and friendly places for families to spend time in, socialise, connect and play. We're going to be supporting our children and families to play at home with a strong focus on strengthening family bonds. We'll be developing Wandsworth's own 10 by 10 programme, supporting children to experience 10 exciting and life enriching activities before the age of 10. And we'll harness the power of our status as London Borough of Culture in 2025 to drive forward our vision for play. And we're going to do all of this by focusing on three key areas, people at play, communities at play and environments for play, closely aligning with the Wandsworth Moves Together strategy that launched earlier this year. We want Wandsworth to be a place where every child and young person can access high quality play provision close to where they live and participate in fun, safe and inclusive activities that meet their unique needs and interests. Together with partners, we'll support children and families to become empowered to explore the world through play. We know we already have a rich and exciting play provision in Wandsworth, but we're really excited about how this could be even better. This paper really is just the beginning. We'll be spending the next few months planning and focusing on the key actions outlined in the paper. And then next year, we'll be launching the Year of Play alongside London Borough of Culture and start embedding Wandsworth's legacy as the best place to play. I welcome any comments or questions. Thank you so much. It's such an exciting paper. I can see there's lots of questions already. Councillor Birchall, Councillor Apps, Councillor Gawner, Councillor Owens. Thank you, Chair. Yes, all very exciting, and play is important. Play for young children is their work, and it is vital that they have an enriched environment to do that. There's not much talked about libraries, and there used to be, in some places, toy libraries. Would you be creating those, supporting those, enhancing those? Good evening, committee. Thank you for the question. I'm Matthew Eaddy. I'm the Director of Culture and Leisure. I'm going to be honest. I'm not going to be able to answer the one about toy libraries, but I can definitely find out for you unless there's someone in the children's team that can do that. But in terms of our libraries, play is fundamental to the offer within our libraries. We are developing a library strategy as we speak. We're going to be bringing that forward in February for approval at the Environment Committee. And lots of the ambition that's in the Wandsworth Moves Together and this play strategy will form part of that library strategy, you know, from the key things like rhyme time with parents and, you know, and little babies to more structured play. And we've got baby yoga and things like that going in our libraries. So we do a really fantastic, diverse offer, and this strategy just builds on the excitement of that so we can be bigger, bolder, and better. Yeah, well, let me start by saying how much I congratulate you for this paper. It's a tremendous start. Really pleased to see the ambition within it again. I think one of the things that Wandsworth's often been criticised for in the past is working in silos. And what's really great about this is the fact that it's so cross-cutting. It's something I'm really passionate about, making sure the council does more of. So you're kind of looking across children's leisure, you know, making sure that we're managing, bringing in libraries, bringing in housing, all really good. Can you explain more about how you've kind of made sure that you've brought those colleagues and those partnerships on board through this journey? And how we will make sure that collective approach continues as the strategy develops into practice? Thank you. Thank you, Councillor. Yes, I think this paper and piece of work has been a real success story in collaboration across the organisation. As you mentioned, we've had, obviously, colleagues from children's, but also leisure, assets, housing, public health, insight and analytics, all coming together to form a board, a sort of working group where we were reviewing local population data, reflecting on feedback from children and families and sort of inputting into that vision and key priority areas as the paper involved. And I think this approach really ensured that we were aligning with various strategies coming out, for example, once we've moved the youth vision and ongoing work with libraries as well. We're going to continue working closely together. We're going to be reviewing sort of membership of that board and setting up strong and robust governance to take our plans forward and make sure that those work streams are delivered. And, Councillor, just to echo what my colleague said, that actually I will be chairing that governance board moving forward to ensure that it's that synergy and also ensuring that we hold to account our colleagues across the council as well in terms of the delivery. Councillor Stock, our cabinet member, would like to come in. Thank you. Thank you, Chair. I just wanted to reinforce again that I think this aspect of this new approach that we are launching here in terms of play is really important to me. I think we've said before we want to put children at the heart of everything we do at the council. And I think this is really where we are trying to advocate for children, not just that the services are excellent within Children's Services Directorate itself, but across the council. And we're ensuring that every director at the council is really putting play at the top of their agenda, putting children and families at the top of their agenda. Like it's been said, whether it's our leisure, whether it's kind of our green spaces, whether it's community safety or, you know, traffic and our play streets, and that's really important. And the opportunity for us to take our work and our advocacy for children across the council, I think this is a really good way for us to do that. And I'd really welcome other councillors kind of being mindful of this approach that the council is endorsing here when there are other committees and thinking, thinking about how we can really advocate for children in the borough having the very best start in life. Councillor Corner. Thank you, Chair. And I really do want to agree with all of the comments made about how valuable this paper and proposal is, so thank you for bringing it to committee. I do want to continue my theme on how we know we'll have been successful. I think there's some excellent measures here on page 56, and it'll be really fantastic to achieve these. I do have one question on 2025 and ELBOP. On the second bullet point, it says that we want at least 10% of the local population of all ages to describe their well-being positively. I assume that's a typo. 10% seems quite low. I'd want it to be maybe 90%. So I wondered if there could be a comment on that. But my substantive question is about the agenda for 25-26 on page 65 on the relaunch of free play streets and getting those done. And so that will be quite easy to see that those have happened. But this committee and, of course, any colleagues interested in transport policy will know that closing streets has been highly controversial in recent years. So I'd like to just have a bit of a comment on what the free play streets will look like and how residents will be able to know that their streets are being closed for the purposes of play. I'm not saying it's a good or bad thing, but clearly that process would need to be transparent and communicated to residents appropriately. I'm so sorry. Can you repeat the second part of the question? Yeah, so on page 65, one of the success criteria for 25-26 is that we want to relaunch the free play streets. In recent years, closing streets, for whatever reason, has been quite controversial. And a lot of feedback has been given to the council about lack of resident awareness of when their streets will be closed or there will be a lack of access to them. So can you just explain a little bit about what the play streets will entail and how residents will know that their street will be part of that program? Sorry, I'm struggling with technology there. Thank you, Councillor. Yep, so play streets, like you said, involve closing roads for a specific period of time and creating safe spaces for children to play outside. This is something I think that was lost a bit over the pandemic, obviously with social distancing, but has sort of experienced a bit of more popularity in the last couple of years with things like the King's Coronation, street parties, etc. This is something that we really, really want to sort of push forward because safety was sort of a key concern that came out in our engagement, particularly safe spaces outside for children and young people to play. And so we think this will benefit local families and it will sort of promote that sort of connecting, connecting, socialising, strengthening community bonds, which is evident sort of part of our ambition throughout the whole paper. We have liaised with colleagues in transport. I think that's sort of a bridge we'll have to cross when we come to it, but it's definitely something that we want to promote going forward. Okay, as long as there's due kind of warning given to residents about when their street might be up for being a play street. I'm not saying if, you know, I think that's really important. And could you also answer my question about the measure on page 56 about describing well-being? I think that the Cabinet Member wants to come in because it's really more addressed at us, I think, rather than the Miss Gillicott about the school street. Yeah, just coming back to the point about play streets, I think the point that we made before, I'm cautioned against the Council sharing some disinformation, really, or misinformation, should I say, about what a play street is. I think we should be really careful here, and I hope the Councillor wouldn't misdescribe what this is articulating, because I think we have had really positive feedback about our work around school streets, which is exactly what a play street is as well, closing streets around schools for a time-limited time so children can get to school safely and in a more pleasant environment, thinking about air quality. You know, we've reached that and exceeded our target, as I understand it, earlier than expected. So my taking of that is there definitely is appetite looking at how successful the school streets programme has been. And also, as was being described, you know, we have got really successful teams and schemes and positive schemes that have been well-received by residents across the borough in relation to free play streets on car-free day, coronation day. And I don't share anxieties that the Council is sharing about those events, which is what this paper is talking about, and other types of schemes. Thank you for that clarity. Can I just come back quickly? I don't accept her assertion that I'm spreading misinformation, obviously. I'm referring, of course, to LTNs, which actually, to be fair, happened before the Council terms. But it is an example of where a street is, you know, the use of a street is changed. And they were controversial, and no one can deny that. Now, a school street is when the street is closed during the opening and closing hours of the school. A play street might result in a street being closed for a lot longer, and it might cause significantly more disruption, or it might not, depending on how well it's rolled out and communicated. So that was the point I wished to make. I'm not opposing play streets, just saying that it's an important consideration. And I look forward to the Council managing their rollout extremely well. Thank you for your comments, Councillor Corner. I think your colleague, Councillor Owens, would like to come in now. Could I get the amendment to the metric on page 56? Is that accurate, that we only want 10% of people to describe their well-being as good, or is it a mistake? So the 10%, this was us aligning with other strategies, so that was a success measure. And in another strategy, we obviously wouldn't want to sort of go above and misalign with that. But it's something I think we can revisit. Thank you. Right, now I'm going to go to Councillor Owens, and then Councillor Osborne, Councillor Davies, and Councillor Apps. Thank you. Just picking up a bit on libraries and a couple of other points as well, but they mainly relate to teenagers. I'm just sort of curious and conscious, rather, that obviously teenagers are the ones which we also particularly need to reach out to. It's wonderful to see about some of the refurbishments of playgrounds. But obviously, with some of our refurbished libraries, we have teenage sections, for example, and of course they're only open on three days a week. And obviously, particularly in Northcote, our brand-new library was designed to be opened on more days, because obviously the private sector can use the meeting rooms within the building. Similarly, on teenagers, but also younger children, sport is obviously huge in the borough. And you make a reference to some of the waterlogged pitches. I also know, because I'm involved in four different sports across the borough, that the cost of hiring the pitches now in the last couple of years has almost doubled. And what has happened is that the cost is obviously passed on to families. So if your children play with Fit for Kids, for example, or Brunwood Football Club, or one of them on a Saturday, the fees are much higher than they would have been, and it's becoming less sustainable. Finally, on swims and gyms, I'm curious as to take up on that. Obviously, that's been rolled out more extensively, to include 17 and 18-year-olds since the beginning of the year. But, you know, obviously, that would be interesting to know about take-up. And just on playgrounds, thank you very much, Lady Anne. I know it's a different Lady Anne to the one in Northcote, but it's great to see all playgrounds finally being refurbished. Thank you. Thanks for the question. I'll try and answer all those questions. They were pretty fast. So I think one was about library opening hours. And I'm really pleased to say that we have quite good teenage engagement in our libraries and programmes that we run. But we want to be more ambitious, and we've been listening to young people and families as part of the development of the library strategy. And we will be presenting further enhancements to what we want to do as part of our proposals for the next strategy. That strategy will also include a review of the opening hours as well to make sure they're fit for purpose and meet the needs of the communities, and particularly the people that need them the most. So hopefully that'll answer your question, even though I'm pushing it down the road, so I apologise for that. In terms of pitches, the council has invested £1.4 million in improving our pitches. So the first year we've done about half of that. It has to be done at a certain time of the year. So at the end of this season, there'll be another significant investment in those pitches as well. On the fees and charges, it concerns me because we want to be really inclusive and accessible. And, you know, we've literally just taken our fees and charges to Environment Committee and got them approved. And they were, most of them were about 2% increase. So there's not, if there's been a huge increase over the last two years, that's not been while I've been here, but I'm happy to look into it. And we do support clubs. We have, lots of our clubs have subsidised access. So whether or not those clubs or those groups are passing that on, you know, that's difficult for me to say. But I do know that lots of our groups and clubs have subsidised access to our pitches and don't pay the full rate. But I'm happy to look into that. In terms of access for all, I think this is something the council should be really, really proud of. Every month we get more and more people signing up. Every month the offer gets bigger and better. You know, we've got 360 places every day in the LIDO when the LIDO is open for access for all, for free and subsidised access. We had over 1,000 people benefit from fireworks, tickets as part of our access for all offer. And this is on top of the fact that any child that lives in Wandsworth that's under eight can swim for free anyway. And we've recently been piloting swimming lessons for children that are on free school meals because that's a target group for us. And in January, Environment Committee, we agreed to extend that offer because it was only eligible for years five, six and seven. It's going to be from years two to seven. And that was agreed at Environment Committee. So building on that ambition, you know, just shows that this strategy is articulating that. But we want to go further and harder and faster. And any feedback that you want to give on how we might be able to do that, let me know. I'm on the council system. I'm happy to consider it. Thank you so much. I think, Councillor Osborne, actually, I had you down as wanting to ask the next question. And I'm sure you'll build on what's just been said. I shall, actually. Well, first, I want to make a comment about the paper. I promise I will enter into a more interrogative mood towards the end of my contribution. But the thing I want to say about the paper, at the risk of repeating everybody else's praise, is to say, I don't want to present myself as an expert on this, but I get the feeling that the paper kind of gets it. It understands what play really is and the importance of play. And it isn't just about a child getting on a swing or a roundabout or a climbing frame or a slide. It's about that child measuring itself against the rest of the world and establishing how it fits in to a local community and a local area. And it's about the family around that child measuring itself against its own community. And play is so important for all of those things. And I think that has to be said here in this discussion this evening. If I've got a question, I think it's – I'm wondering whether you can elaborate a bit on how we're getting at that, how we're getting ourselves into a position where we think we're doing the right things. What are the families saying? How are we getting a response from the families? And how is that continually going to be the case? I want to see that as an organic part of the programme forever and a day. Thank you, Councillor. So, yeah, I mean, engagement with local children and families was absolutely key to sort of shaping and development, developing this paper. And we wanted to ensure that it was really sort of truly representative of families across the whole borough. For this particular piece of work, we kicked off our engagement with an online survey early this year, asking families what were their views on play spaces? What did they like? What wasn't working? What is working? And then our fantastic participation team were also involved going out to events, community spaces such as the Rose Centre, Rose Hampton Food Bank, going to family hubs, children's centres, and engaging with forums, and engaging with forums such as our youth council and our SEND youth clubs, talking to children at schools, engaging with young people at Kimber, Skate Park. It was a really, really big piece of engagement. And also as part of this, we were asking what are the barriers that children and families are facing in terms of play? I think some of the key concerns, obviously, cost was a big one. I mentioned safety earlier. And families also wanted to see more inclusive and age-specific equipment. They don't want to go to a park for, you know, their five-year-old and then have to go somewhere else for their 10-year-old, for example. So you asked, what are we doing sort of to address that feedback? We're going to be assessing the needs of all the local playgrounds in Wandsworth, making sure that they're brought up to a high standard by making upgrades and improvements. In terms of safety, we're working with community safety, as Councilor Stock mentioned earlier. We're also going to be expanding supervised sessions for young people, strengthening our playoff and youth provision, as Kat mentioned earlier. And also looking at improving lighting in playgrounds, so if people just feel safe, you know, walking home in the evenings. Families also said they wanted longer opening hours. So we're going to look at piloting longer opening hours in playgrounds, opening school playgrounds outside of school hours, trialing that in Roehampton first, and potentially piloting opening hours at family hubs as well. And in terms of play activities being too expensive, we've mentioned sort of our access for all offer, offering free soft play to underneath leisure centres. We're also going to be opening up council-owned spaces for local voluntary organisations to use for free or low-cost play activities, which we're hoping will expand once we play off it even further. But as we've acknowledged, this is just the start, and we do need to keep listening and engaging with families. And I think we'll be sort of developing a strong engagement plan as part of the new governance, the new programme. But key to that is our participation team, our cluster partnerships, and our existing forums, as they're fantastic in getting that feedback. Councillor Davies. Yeah, hi. So, you'll know that I'm the council's Families Champion, and I was really delighted to be able to take the privilege, really, of speaking with the Children's Director and the whole team, persuade them of the rationale for the baby boxes. And we're all very proud, you know, that this has been introduced. We're the only London council doing this. And, you know, and it just shows how differently we're thinking about play, really, and, you know, the importance of it, the serious business, and how it really impacts child development and the child's, you know, right to thrive and have the right resources thrown at them. And what I'd really like to hear is if you can, you know, so I'm, you know, I'm a convert, I know, you know, about all the different benefits for it. But I think it's quite important if we can explain to the committees of what is special, what are the benefits for this, about this initiative, particularly for play at home. And then how the family connectors they work with and with, for and with the families. And then I suppose, yeah, how's it going and what are the ideas for rollout? Thank you. Thank you, councillor, and I'll take that question. So the Baby Box is a fantastic initiative. We're the only borough to be delivering the Baby Box currently. It's a fantastic initiative and a programme that really offers wraparound support for vulnerable parents. So we work with our colleagues across the health partnership to identify vulnerable parents who are in need of support, often in first-time pregnancies, often between the age of 16 to 23. And that support very much is about that practical support. So we talk about the Baby Box, which is full of fantastic toys and support mechanisms for being a first-time parent, but also about that emotional support as well in terms of navigating through pregnancy, but also in terms of navigating access to the support services, both in terms of those wider aspects as well, but also those social interactions as well as you're navigating through to become a new parent. I'm delighted to share with committee that, actually, that since the launch of the Baby Boxes, we've had 17 parents identified. On average, each year, there's about between 40 and 50 parents who would be eligible for the scheme. So already, we're doing really well in terms of identifying parents who may be suitable. Of those 17, we've delivered six boxes so far. So the Baby Box, we start supporting parents at about 34, up to 34 weeks of gestation. That's at the point we deliver the Baby Box to them, which has all the bits in it in terms of supporting them. And then we continue to work with the parents right there through to birth and beyond for up to six months to a year in terms of supporting with that transition. So delighted that we've been able to deliver six Baby Boxes. We've got another nine boxes that are due to be delivered before April. So, again, we're already engaging with those parents around that support. But equally, as the discussion has led this evening already around success measures, so, again, we've got a really strong evaluation program in place to consider, actually, what's been the impact and what's been the success of the Baby Boxes. So we're working through that with the parents that we're engaging with now. And we're also ambitious, as always, in terms of looking at how we can expand that program for other parents as part of the access rule. Thank you very much, Ms. White. Can I suggest, because we've got many papers to get through, that we move to recommendations now? So page 34. The committee is recommended to support the recommendations in paragraph 2, A, B, and C. Do we support the recommendations? We are agreed, agreed, agreed, unanimous. Thank you very much. Now, as I said at the outset, we are going to bring forward the paper that was at 7. That is now going to be at 5. And we have many people in the public gallery who I know have been waiting patiently, and thank you very much. I tried to bring that in for you in the hour, but we are slightly over that. But thank you very, very much for your patience. So the paper that we move to is the proposal to consult on the closure of Bradstow Special Residential School and the children's homes there. It's paper number 24 to 339. And we will go into this, and I know Ms. Popovicci is going to introduce the paper, but I think just at the outset, we want to acknowledge how hard this is and how challenging this topic is. And the proposal to consult on the closure of the residential school and the children's homes in Kent, which I believe has stood there for over 35 years for Warnsworth, taking over in 1990. So there's a big history to this as well. I think we all want to thank the principal, Sarah, who I know, Sarah, you're in the public gallery, in the group of teachers, and all of you who are with us tonight in the public gallery. And we want to recognize the significant impact. The discussion that we are now going to have to have will be on students, families, teachers, and the whole community down at Boardstairs. We're very, very aware of that. And also to say that we want to emphasize that the recommendation for closure is not, it is not a reflection of the quality of the leadership or the dedication of you, the staff. Absolutely, on the contrary, we welcome Sarah and the teachers who are with us now, and we want to praise the remarkable team who have worked so hard to provide an enriched experience, educational, and care for the students at Boardstairs, and your commitment and passion and service. Because they really have not gone unnoticed, and we wholeheartedly want to thank you for that. But we do recognize how hard this is. So I'm now going to hand over to our Director of Children's Services, Ms. Popovici, to provide an overview on the paper. Thank you, Chair. I'm now going to have to我要 one week from my day one in the job, which was five years ago. Bradstow School in Kent has for many years been providing highly specialized education, care, and support to young children with severe and complex needs. Bradstow has been a valuable part of our once-birth family of schools. For our family of schools, the geography didn't matter. We have been a team since 1990, and we know and I have directly heard on many occasions that the school is much loved and valued by all the family it serves. The love and respect I know is echoed by this council. In the words of a parent, and I quote, the life of my child and our wider family has been significantly positively impacted by the fully integrated 24-hour high-quality care and education and support provided at Bratstow, dramatically improving our son's future life prospects. Now I want you to pause and multiply this by the 33 children and young people currently at Bratstow, and you can see how this school is held in such regard, thus holding a special place in the hearts of many. And I know that because those heartfelt messages and comments have reached me directly from parents individually, as a group, from staff, from the wider community. These views reflect the exceptional support provided by staff across education and care provision, and sometimes in difficult circumstances. Their commitment has never been in question. Sadly, this proposal is one which has come as a last resort, and that is due to the school's financial position, a position which makes the school now, in the medium term and long term, not sustainable. And not sustainable without a direct impact on the quality of provision for children. This committee knows. This committee knows that as a council, as a department, every single one in this room is actually committed to a special educational needs agenda. And we've worked tirelessly, and in partnership with our community of schools, at PACE, on our vision to keep children with special educational needs local, in one's words, close to their family and friends. A 41 million pound investment in local provision has actually helped us create an additional 271 places since 2021. The success of this work has, in turn, meant that over time, we placed fewer and fewer children at Bratstow, because we wanted to keep our ones with children local. And the current number of residents, placed at Bratstow, stands at four. The conversation today is not something we wanted to have, and we have worked really, really hard to avoid. Avoid the proposal to consult on the closure of this school, however, with the plan to transfer the provision to Kent, not progressing, coupled with other local authorities' unwillingness to pay outstanding bills, or agree to uplift payments required to provide the right support for the children, placed at Bratstow. We are unable to secure the future financial viability in a way, in a way, in which will not impact on the delivery of services for children. We do believe, hand on heart, that progressing this proposal has been taken in children's best interest, and it is a difficult decision, and an emotional decision for us all. We acknowledge that this proposal will be really hard for the community of schools to accept, especially given the challenges the school has faced over the last few years. But we are really committed to working with everyone impacted on a transparent and in a compassionate way, throughout a proper, real, meaningful consultation process, to really enable all stakeholders to have their voices heard, and really help decision makers to arrive at the right outcome. Our chair has already referenced the fact that we've got a number of colleagues that have taken the time to travel from Kent at the end of a busy day, knowing that they have to go back tonight to continue to serve those children and families back, you know, and if that's not commitment, I don't really know what real commitment is. And I really want to take this opportunity to thank them for their dedication, passion, and for everything they do, day in, day out, to benefit the children and families served by Bratstow School. Colleagues, your hard work has been instrumental in building the school's reputation for what it stands for, for the specialized care and support. And, again, again, to reiterate, this proposal is absolutely not a reflection on the quality of the current leadership and the education and care provided at Bratstow. It's absolutely linked to a financial conversation, which I know, we know, makes the provision unsustainable now and in the long term. Chair, over to you. Thank you very much, Anna. So, questions. I can see Councillor Corner. Thank you, Chair. And I'd like to really express my gratitude to the members of staff at Bratstow who have come here this evening and have spent the time to be with us and, in some cases, give me their views directly to help inform the debate tonight. I'd also like to thank you, Miss Popovici. I think that introduction really struck the correct tone about the gravity of this decision that we are being asked to take today. I do have a couple of things I'd like to read out in terms of representations from the school community. And those are things that the rest of the committee should, I think, in the interest of having a properly informed debate, should hear. Although, obviously, as we have heard, there are multiple sides of this argument that need to be considered. One letter that I've received states, the announcement of the intention to close the school now creates enormous anxiety and life-changing implications for the young people and the families and the wider community. Many, if not all, of the current cohort of young people face the very real risk of finding no suitable alternative placement if and when Bratstow is closed. With the likelihood of significant regression in their well-being and future prospects, it is noted that schools like ours are also desperately needed to support the increasing demand for specialist schools such as ours, with local ones already being over-subscribed. Another member of staff at Bradstow said that she wishes to express my deep concern and distress over this announcement and to highlight the enormous impact that it will have on the lives of the young people, their families, our staff team, and the community Bradstow serves. Families have had to fight to secure places at this special school, often against tremendous resistance from local authorities, despite defined needs in EHCP documents. Many, like us, needing to pursue their cases through tribunal processes. I think those are important considerations for the committee to consider today. Anyway, I would like to make the argument and point out to the committee that I do not feel that this is a similar case to the previous two cases of schools we've been asked to take a decision on whether to close during this council term, Christchurch in Battersea and Broadwater in Tooting. The first point is that it's not the case that there are falling roles. There is a falling roles issue at Bradstow. In fact, as we've just heard from the letters, in one of the letters, it even says the phone is ringing off the hook with people asking for provision at Bradstow. And also, I don't feel it's right to describe the new provision being created at the Broadwater site as the same as the provision being offered at Bradstow. So Bradstow offers unique residential support, whereas the paddock expansion would only be day-to-day provision. And also, this is not about closing a school, but offering the same or at least very similar provision at a nearby school. It has been noted in the discussions that I've had with members of the school community at Bradstow that the council, Wandsworth Council, has moved very quickly to help identify alternative provision for the children at the school. And that is appreciated, and that's in the best traditions of the children's directorate here. However, it hasn't been possible to offer these children similar provision. One of the children, of our Wandsworth Council children, has been offered alternative provision at a school in Birmingham, which is just not similar provision at all. It's in a completely different part of the country entirely. So I don't feel that comparison with those two cases of schools being closed in the borough recently is valid. It's a completely different case that we need to consider. I also feel that, despite the paper doing a good job of presenting some of the options that have been considered for the sites at Bradstow, I don't feel that all the options have been given due consideration yet. For example, it's been determined that the part selling of the land and the buildings, rather than the complete sale of the land and buildings, could be possible, whilst maintaining the provision that Bradstow currently provides on that site, on just part of the site. So, for example, the paper makes reference to the large building. That isn't necessarily required to provide for the children at that site, according to some of the representations I've received from the school community. Also, I don't think that the option of Kent County Council paying up for the provision of the children that they've placed there has been taken through to its final conclusion. So it might be premature to launch a consultation yet, and I think there are still options around legal action that could be taken. Appreciate there are arguments to say that that would be too expensive, and I'm sure there are arguments to not do that as well, but we need to carefully consider that. And also, there could be more work done to partner with other local authorities, including Kent County Council and others, and have political leadership in order to make sure that local authorities can work together to keep this provision in place. So those are some reflections. I would welcome further debate on those. I do have some further questions as well, but I'll let others speak for now. Thank you very much for speaking on behalf of others, which is the role of opposition. I know we did it when we were in opposition, but we must move to questions. However, I think, Councillor Stott, would you like to respond? Not at this point. Okay, so Councillor Osborne I had next for a question, then Councillor Lee, and then Councillor Crivelli. Yeah, I know it's different circumstances, but it's always heartbreaking to be faced with these kind of decisions as a committee. But the difference in circumstances is important here. As has been pointed out, we're not looking at a problem with a falling role as we have done previously. This is very much about the finances of the school. And the blunt fact of the matter is that, terrible though it may be as we've got to look at it, we can't provide the kind of educational, quality education that we should be providing if, as we go forward, we're not getting the funds to do so. A deficit is going to impact on the quality of education, and there's just no way around that. And, I mean, it's interesting that one of the letters you were quoting from there, Councillor Corner, talks about how families have had to fight local authorities in order to get provision at Bradstow. And, at the moment, a number of local authorities are struggling to pay their way at Bradstow. So, I think that is very much central to our decision this evening. As you say, very different from previous dilemmas we've faced, but central to it now is the financing of the school, which we've inherited through a series of historical accidents and ended up in a fairly unusual position with this school down in Kent. So, my question, I suppose, is can we be told what actions have been taken with the local authorities to try and get them to pay their deficits, pay up their debts, to ensure that the education in this school is properly funded? Mr. Halleck, would you? So, I'll take that. We've been working with the school ever since I joined here seven years ago. I would say I couldn't have given more effort to try and work with the school, work with other councils to recover their funds. We have monthly task groups with the school nearly for that entire time because the finances have been precarious for the entire time. I think in the second year here we had an in-year deficit of $200,000 that we had to start to look at, and after that we've COVID hit a high inflationary period with support staff being the most affected by pay rises, made us have to uplift charges in those periods more than we had ever before in the last 10 years. On a percentage basis, it is a very support staff heavy school. As you can see from the paper, 24-7, a lot of support staff all getting what was probably £20,000 going into over £30,000 within two to three years. That's a 30% increase. That has to be charged somewhere. Someone has to pay for that. My teams are dedicated to recovering funds for special schools. We have to cash flow them. They could not survive on their own, which makes the reason why the academy option is just very unlikely. At any one time, we are cash flowing between £8 million and £3 million of debt that we still have to go and recover. We do that for all our special schools, but because the risk is so high on this, I have a 30-minute briefing every two weeks from my assistant director of finance to go through the debt, and the entire conversation is nearly Bradstow, and every conversation is, has this council paid? What are the reasons not? No, they don't want to pay for one-to-one. No, they don't want to pay the inflation. Inflation, if you decline paying inflation of 2% one year and the baseline falls, and you don't, and then build on that, don't pay, say it was meant to be 5%, you're paying 2%. Next year you're paying, they agree, only 2%, but it's meant to be another 5%. That compounding effect can be 30% over time, very, very quickly that you become a deficit. So Kent in particular, we normally get our money eventually after a lot of hard work and begging. There is a part where record-keeping hasn't been that great, so we don't have a signed document to say this one-to-one is in place. It should be paid for. There might be an e-mail trail or something. Provision has been put in sometimes without a signed form. Collecting that money has not been easy. So at the moment, historic debts are a million pounds due to last year, and we have had letters in writing saying we're not paying the new fees required to support the provision at the moment. Since September, the reduced provision, which is outlined in the paper as well, that whole impact accumulates every single term, and it will easily be two million pounds where the school already got the 1.2 deficit coming into this year. That can easily be four million within a very, very short time. Myself and Anna, we met the DFE to ask about options. It is a commissioner's power. They have to agree uplifts. Yes, when you place the child, you have the power to negotiate fees, but the fee is set. You basically have to take that place, take the fee. But when it comes to the annual increases, the commissioner has a lot of power, and we met in that meeting. It was quite clear. We had very few options, and one of them is the only solution is to walk away. We can go to court. So we had got to that point earlier this year. We've gone to solicitors. We've written to the big council in particular, and we got a response from their lawyers. That could go to judicial, but we paused it in good faith under the precept of working on the due diligence. Myself and other teams and the school gave up a lot of the summer holiday to work on due diligence, but by the end of it, the conclusion was that the building is not fit for being any type of school and that they weren't prepared to pay the fees required, especially on the new ones that were uplifted because it was a smaller provision. You lose economies of scale, even though we're committed to bring those prices down, but it will take a restructure. We're talking millions of pounds of restructure just to get fit-for-purpose staffing. Thank you very much, Mr. Hallock. It's really clear that you have bent over backwards here at Onceworth to try and find a solution, and it's just been impossible. I had Councillor Lee next, and then Councillor Gravelli, and then Councillor Corner. Yeah, I think we all acknowledge the concerns of the school community about the proposal of this closure. I wanted to go back a bit to the quality of care and education that has been mentioned by Rex, and if we did try to keep the school open, how would that be impacted? Thank you. I can take that question. Thank you, Councillor. The delivery of high standards of education and care is central to our work with schools and important to us all in children's. It's for this reason that we made the decision to close the 52-week homes to place our shared commitment and focus on quality and safeguarding children further to the care home inspections at Bradstow. During this time, as is mentioned, we were also working towards plans with Kent on transferring the provision, and hence it wasn't appropriate at that time to commence a major staffing restructure, which would be needed given the significant reduction in pupil numbers that we've noted, alongside not accepting new placements while significant work was undertaken to address the inspection findings. Sadly, that transfer, as we know, isn't progressing, and given the budget position and large deficit, the cuts to staffing levels, which would be needed to address this deficit and put the school in a sustainable position moving forward, would inevitably mean that the level of support for children would be reduced compared to that currently provided. This, coupled with the ongoing investment needed in the buildings and the sites, capital investment which we have committed to spend locally would be in the longer term have a detrimental effect on the quality of delivery, something which we all agree we are not prepared to compromise on in order to keep a school open. Thank you very much. Councillor Crivelli. Can I say that, on the face of the papers, it would appear that it's economically viable for Wandsworth, makes sense economically for Wandsworth not to be engaged with the school any more if we've only got four pupils there. But what I think we should be concerned about is that the existing 29 pupils that are already there, can we see what is going to happen to them? Because, in effect, if we pull the plug on the school, where are they going to go? It's quite clear that the school's offering a very specific sort of service, and I think we should be concerned about what's going to happen with those 29 pupils who will no longer be able to be at Bradstow. Can I ask that question? But I wanted to ask Mr Halleck again, we've talked about the fact that this £3.6 million deficit, £2 million of it, is caused by Kent not paying their fees. And I appreciate you've talked about the fact that we've tried to engage them, but in a legal context, surely they must be liable for those fees, and consequently, they have a legal obligation to honour those fees to Wandsworth Council, do they not? So, as commissioners, they have quite a lot of power themselves on inflationary increased negotiation. They do need to agree the fees on an annual basis. So, what was explained to us was that they either need to pay what's sustainable, agree what's sustainable, or we have no other option but to close the provision. It was pretty much as simple as that. We can go to judiciary, but we're going to struggle in some areas where we don't have evidence, clear evidence, of some of the provision that was charged for by the school. And it will, we probably get some of that money back, but it's unlikely to get all of it. And we'd probably go through that over and over again. I don't know if that's, yeah, I'll leave it there. I don't know if that's what we're going to do. Thank you. Councillor Carelli, has that, you had another part to your question? Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, in relation to all of the children at Bradstow, you know, we recognise the importance of thinking about transition for those children, you know, as we do for all children, but none more so than children with special needs. As with all transitions, whether it be in year placements or phase transfers, we would obviously work with school leaders, parents and communicate with other local authorities who hold the statutory responsibility for SEND provision to ensure that planning is taking place with regard to alternative provision should the decision be taken to close Bradstow. I think the key to this are parents because any placement is around parental preference for their child, working in relationship with responsible local authorities to consult with schools and settings. One thing I would say, we have liaised with other directors of children's services because obviously we notified all of them of this intention. We haven't received any contact outlining concerns about placement. Now, that's not to say, you know, that won't be the case, but nobody has indicated to us that there are concerns. We've liaised with other local authorities that have got children currently placed and they have got their brokerage teams conducting intensive searches to find the most suitable placement. as I've alluded to in Wandsworth, we have already undertaken a bit of a matching exercise in relation to need and placement suitability and that's for the three children that we have there because actually the further child that's there we have is actually due to leave at the end of this year and actually consultation on that future placement has already been, is underway and again, in terms of your response to us finding or placing somebody, we can't place any child in a provision without parental permission. That is how it works and families would fight us if it was inappropriate to place their child in a provision that they didn't deem suitable. So actually, those conversations have started because it is very important to us that whatever decision is taken that we find provision for children and that we ensure that any transition is as smooth as possible. Councillor Korner, you wanted to come back and then I've got Councillor Birchall and Councillor Owens. Thank you, Chair and I really do appreciate Mr Hallett and his team's work on this over such a long period of time and I'm very reassured about the work that they have done to make sure that this is, from their perspective, the right proposal. However, I feel there is more that could be done that the committee should be aware of. Now, it's regrettable perhaps that Miss Adams, the principal of Bradstow, has been unable to address the committee this evening. She is in the public gallery. But she are, in my discussions with her, she did confirm that she is, as a new leader at the school, able to, confident that she is able to come up with a financially sustainable plan for the school within the next term and, indeed, there's a new business and finance manager at the school who will be able to support with the delivery of that. She's also offered to come to address this committee personally to play a part in our decision-making and it's important that the council knows that. Nonetheless, I do think that there is more that can be done, but I don't think it's actually something that Mr. Halleck and his team are reasonably placed to be able to do. It is something that would fall to politicians. So, for example, Councillor Stott could meet with the cabinet member for Education and Children's at Kent County Council to understand what can be done there to make Kent pay up for the provision and also there could be a meeting with lead members for Education and Children's across the local authorities that are interested in the continued provision at Bradstow to come to an arrangement to ensure the continued provision at Bradstow for the foreseeable future. Why can that not happen? Should we not pause, allow that political process to happen and then reassess? Thank you very much. Councillor Stott, do you want to respond? Yes. Thank you, Councillor Corner, for your request to consider some pause in the process. I just want to come in as well to agree with what's been said by members of the committee and the officers about the amazing work that goes on to support children and families with really complex needs at Bradstow. I'm sorry I haven't been able to attend the school yet but I hope to be able to to really be able to witness the work that's going on on there and see pupils and understand the care and education that is provided and the amazing impact that they have. and I really recognise the work of leaders particularly the new head teacher in the work that's gone on to the school and to echo what's been said before that this proposal is no reflection on the leadership the current leadership of the school but I do agree with the comments that have been said about the entanglement of the financial viability of the school and the quality of education that needs to be provided for children. and that will always be my priority is to make sure that children have high quality care and the education that they need that meets their needs. In relation to a pause I think we've been clear the paper is very clear that this is going to be a transparent and inclusive consultation process. We are in listening mode we are open to options coming forward during this process we are keen that there is time to be able to do that but what I think the paper does also touch on that I think we've said it before in this committee that clear is kind we have this is the position that we face ourselves with at the moment because of the response that we've had from Kent because the school is within their borough they have the most children there but they at the moment aren't willing to countenance a transfer and as Mr Hallock said the position seems to be that the building isn't fit for any type of school for any type of children so my view is that those options can be taken forward during the consultation process. I have met with political leaders in Kent I haven't it's right spoke to the shadow cabinet lead or the committee chair I'm happy to do so directly I think that can be done through the consultation process I think at the moment I'm not aware that that appears to be something that will lead to any necessity to pause the proposal to consult in the new year thank you very much Councillor Stock for such a comprehensive response there I've got Councillor Birchall and Councillor Owens and then Councillor Osborne thank you so much these children have such profound needs that they need a special school don't they I mean we're spending a lot of money on expanding paddock but I don't think it's going to be the answer for children that are at Bradstow and so some you know and there is going to be an increase in the number of these profoundly disabled children going forward and there will be a need I think because I don't a lot of parents can't cope with this level of need looking after them at home and I don't probably need to have an answer I just think that I know that you've worked really hard I know the school is working really hard and it's just a bit of a tragedy thank you thank you very much Councillor Bertschel Councillor Owens I think I had next yes thank you I concur with everything that's been said I just had a thought I'm sure it's all been looked at but I do realise what Councillor was talking about with the pause and perhaps going to the discussions with the other local authorities not just Kent County Council but the others that are listed for example Medway and Surrey and Newham that the school obviously was a sort of fully 52 week year school until recently it went down to obviously the school year as opposed to the calendar year in terms of residential I think at the moment 32 children but with a capacity for more double 62 and I was sort of conscious that obviously lots of issues have been raised about the building and the type of care because obviously a lot of our children as well have come from Paddock and Garrett Park I think in particular to the school but I was just wondering obviously you've looked at providing using it as a facility for day pupils as well because that would be another route just feeding into the thought of the pause but thank you I think I had Councillor Osborne next then Councillor Lee and then Councillor Davies yeah of course everyone agrees that it's tragic there's no nobody is trying to say anything different from that everybody understands how heartbreaking this is but we have to take a decision on what we're going to do with this school and it has to face the financial reality of where the council now finds itself I think it's right to say that the children come first and it's the provision for the children that we should be concerned about three of them are ours and therefore we have a duty and a priority to look after them and make sure that they're properly provided for by Wandsworth I'm using ballpark figures forgive me if I've got the figures slightly wrong but about a dozen come from a range of other local authorities who have failed to pay up and are not covering the cost for those children in this very special kind of education now they know what their responsibilities are and they know the way we are thinking at the moment we have heard that they have not responded and said that they are worried about that doesn't mean that they won't but at the moment we're not getting anything from them to say that that is clearly a problem I think we're right to worry about it but at the moment we're not getting anything from them that leaves us with the approximate dozen 14 or so from Kent County Council and I think the fact of the matter is over a period of years we've I think we've really reached a stage where it's too late now to have any kind of negotiation or anything else with Kent County Council Kent County Council have even been offered the site for nothing by Wandsworth and turned it down they don't see it as viable and the blunt fact of the matter is I think Kent County Council have let us down they've let us down financially they've let us down professionally on this and I don't think we owe them any kind of a meeting to sort this out at the moment with their political leadership the fact of the matter is we've moved to a stage where things are far too advanced and we need to take a decision and act decisively we need to grasp the nettle and move forward on this that's what the paper is offering up and I think that's why we should support this paper thank you Councillor Osborne certainly share those sentiments and I think also just from the chair I was going to say that we have to think about taxpayers in this as well and they elect us we are responsible to them and Wandsworth is carrying the cost of a lot of this with such good will that we can't continue to do that and I think it would be in dereliction of our duties the people that voted for us in Wandsworth if we continued to do so forgive me from the chair I've got Councillor Lee then Councillor Davies and then Councillor Caravelli yeah I think I want to sort of draw attention to the staff at Bradstow I think firstly to praise the staff for everything they do for these children and as it's been said by many this isn't a reflection of the staff or leadership at the school I wanted to ask obviously this is going to be a very difficult period if we do decide to move forward with the consultation for staff what are we doing or are going to do to support staff at the school Thank you I will take that councillor like you said I think we all acknowledge this very difficult decision for the entire school community to process and our approach has always been to be as transparent as possible and deliver messages with kindness and clarity because clear is kind I also want to recognise that leaders are managing the impact of this proposal on a day-to-day basis and our focus will be on supporting them to manage the impact and bring all on the journey of understanding in order to do that we will maintain regular touch base meetings with the head and chair of governors to understand and respond to emerging needs even though this school is very different this is still a statutory process we have been through it twice before we done a lot of learning from previous experiences in terms of how we move forward and I think the most important thing for me is always to listen to what leaders are telling us in terms of what they need and what they're seeing in terms of emerging needs as a consequence of the impact of this process our school's HR will be instrumental in ensuring that all staff have the information that they need to make informed employers Kent County Council to ensure that the highly skilled staff at Bradstow and I do say that they are highly skilled can be retained in other local Kent provisions should Bradstow close or we will support them in whatever they want to do next in terms of offering that support the school has a link advisor and this support will continue alongside the ongoing financial support that we have provided we will make the best use of available ones with resources such as our education psychologists but also because of the distance which has always been a challenge we will also look to commission local support as required and as informed by the needs that are identified by the school leaders as we move through this process thank you I've got Councillor Davies and then Councillor Crivelli and then I think we should move to the recommendation I'd just like to seek clarity please about whether following from Councillor Birchall's point she made is the Wandsworth in borough provision appropriate and will properly and adequately meet the needs of the three children who are currently at Bradstow and then what type of out of school care provision is there to support families I think it's too early to have that conversation yet because it is guided by parental preference in terms of provision we have done matching exercises and what we will do is what's most suitable for those children but we can't make that decision for families that that decision has to be with them alongside them but I'm confident that we will be able to support children in alternative provisions should the decision be made to close just two technical questions the first one is about the fact that county council are saying they don't want to engage on the building they're not interested in transfer and they've described the structure of the buildings on the site as unfit for any type of school but it's being used as a school just now I was wondering if that point that contradiction could be explained or expanded on the second thing is I make an assumption Mr Hallett can correct me on this that the land and buildings is an asset that belongs to Wandsworth Council is it our intention if the school is closed to realise that asset by the sale of the land in the buildings so let me take the first one I think they did explain that's the school building so they were looking at PMLD which is profound learning accessible but what they said was one of the reasons why the average cost is £350,000 a child is because you have to have so much staff to support just getting around the building because it can be a labyrinth of stairs and all the rest the purpose built children's homes and boarding school is slightly different they were built in the last 10 years we spent £3.5 million on them so that's something different I won't take the one about selling that's a policy decision Councillor Stock do you want to respond to that I think it's a premature conversation I think at this the paper that's before committee today is around proposing on a consultation we've been very clear that we're trying to look to meet the needs of the children we're prioritising that but clearly the school's financial viability is very difficult and I think we need to focus on this process first and the conversation in relation to that is too premature Thank you very much so I'm going to suggest that we now very sadly move to recommendations they're on page 134 do you have an amendment I'd just like to explain our side's position on these recommendations I'd like to thank everyone on the committee for the mature conduct of this debate we do have some concerns about these amendments firstly to be well firstly actually we are making recommendations amendments to the recommendations yes firstly recommendation 2b they're very simple amendments even you'll be able to understand them don't I so recommendation 2b gentlemen gentlemen gentlemen you're a smart guy so far carry on councillor corner please don't make remarks like that 2b really we shouldn't be delegating authority to officers on this we should keep oversight as a committee and this is really important if we surrender oversight to officers at this meeting then principally the administration will bear all the political risk for this monumentous decision that is likely to be taken so instead we should reject that part of the recommendation and keep the decision with the committee secondly the amendment the second part of the amendment is to amend 2a to pause the pre-proposal consultation stage for a term so that Bradstow school management can make their representations to the committee thank you very much for those I think normally we would have these written down that they are quite straightforward councillor apps did you have something that's relevant to this yeah I had a question actually forgive me which is have you checked with the monitoring officer if they would still be valid as part of the consultation that the amendments would be workable that they would be legal and tight this is a formal consultation process it's not just something that we're just running through we get advice on this I want to know if you've had advice on your amendments I'm 100% confident that these amendments are in order and by the way the recommendation is to begin an informal pre-proposal consultation not a formal consultation my question was if you'd had advice from the monitoring officer if you'd had these checked for due diligence no I haven't but I don't need to and this committee should have the confidence to consider these amendments itself and assert its will because there are reasonable amendments that keep us in control of the decision making on this monumental decision that we're about to take that was described as a tragedy by Councillor Osborne we should be sure and that we want to take this decision when it needs to be taken rather than delegate the authority to do so okay okay well it seems to me that we can do one of two things here oh Mr Hullock I think Lisa and I just want to clarify a few things just so that people make informed decisions I'll let Lisa talk about what that means for actual transition of children and the possibility that actually means another year probably but almost every term we will lose a million pounds so just so everyone knows that and also just to say in terms of the process the timeline we have is very tight to ensure we give sufficient notification to staff should the decision be made to close failure to do that and to extend this means we would go into another academic year so you're then talking about another year's worth of costs if children then transition through because you couldn't ask them to move if you're keeping the school open for another year and that has got huge implications for budget and quality of education can I ask a question that follows from that because it does say and it says the executive are recommended to approve an informal pre-proposal consultation stage it doesn't sound like it's informal then if it's got statutory ramifications it is part of the statutory process you have to do a six week pre-publication consultation followed by the notification then you go into formal consultation for four weeks and then you can move to a decision and closure so you have to this is all part of a statutory process and there is an informal element and a formal element and if we were to remove that delegation we'd have to come back to committee in between thank you very much officers for adding and giving us more information of what is in front of us I think that we should move to a vote on this our parent representatives and the diocese representative can vote on this but the diocese representative who's joining us online cannot because you have to be present so where we have an amendment and I think we all understand the amendment that Councillor Corner put before us at A it was to pause so if we take the amendment first point A Councillor Stock thank you chair I just wanted to add in relation if it assists the opposition in relation to their concerns around moving from the informal consultation stage albeit part of the statutory process to the formal consultation stage I know we have a good tradition in this committee of having cross-party briefings I am happy for the outcomes of the informal consultation to be shared in that manner with the entirety of the committee so that there is an open transparent process for all councillors understanding before we move into any formal process I know that's not something we've done with other schools but I am as you have rightly noted the different situation that this proposal is in willing for us to have a cross-party briefing at that stage I just wanted to add that in case that makes any difference to the way you vote in relation to proposal to be thank you much councillor stock so I'm really grateful for that offer I think it's vital that when even when the informal consultation takes place that those are shared with the committee I do feel that a failure to delay for a term means that the management of Bradstow School can't make their representations and also there won't be time for that political process to take place amongst political leadership of the various local authorities I really do appreciate the representations made by officers about the money here it's a significant factor but we mustn't balance the books on the backs of the most vulnerable children in our care and it is something that I still want the committee to consider this amendment thank you very much councillor this really has to come to an end and we have to get to the recommendations of last say councillor thank you very much just in relation to a in the proposal in relation to delay I think as I said before I do think those matters can be dealt with during the consultation process and to be clear as I said before I have had engagement with the MP where Bradstow is located Pauling Billington MP and I know that she is I would say possibly even in a better place for the children who attend Bradstow in order to be able to have that political conversation with Kent County Council and I know that's already happening and in relation to children and the prospect of delay as Ms Fenner Rowley said I think that is a real concern that the committee need to be mindful of the impact of delay on children thank you very much right now we are going to move to a vote on this we're on page 134 it's the recommendations and it's at two and we're going to take the amendment first at a at a we're going to take the amendment that you're all clear that that was to call for a pause so we're going to vote for against and abstain on this I'll take four first who is for the amendment five any abstentions one two two abstentions five four two abstentions and all those against the amendment six against the amendment so the amendment falls we now move to point a sorry point b and the amendment there was for the delegated authority to go to the committee to come to the committee I think it's assumed that it's already at the committee so essentially the amendment is to remove that from recommendation point two thank you for clarifying yes or we we can take a and b separately if that's what the chair wants okay so we're now going to move to the recommendation as as it stands at a this is the recommendation at a all those for the recommendation at a that's six for the recommendation at a abstentions any abstentions thank you very much one two three three abstentions and all those against the recommendation at a four thank you so much so we now go to b the recommendation at b as it stands and is written on page 134 all those for the recommendation at b 7 7 4 the recommendation at b abstentions 2 abstentions and against the recommendation at b 4 4 against the recommendation at b thank you very much everybody so we now move to the next item on the agenda which brings us to children's services statutory complaints okay would you like to I think our cabinet members just coming to say goodbye to everybody from Bradstow so that brings us to children's services statutory complaints paper pages 77 to 112 paper number 24 to 337 and that paper is for information I don't know if we've got anybody who is going to speak on it hi Nancy Carissa I was going to do an extremely brief introduction I think it might be appreciated at the moment if you could thank you very much thank you for the opportunity to present this report to committee I really appreciate having member oversight of complaints the report is very positive it captures learning from complaints through case studies and at the end of the report it gives examples of some of the fantastic compliments sent to children's social services so we're also learning from what we're doing well the report demonstrates that when things go wrong children's services are proactive at putting things right quickly the themes are what we expect to see each year and performance against timescales has really improved and if there are any questions I'd be very happy to take them thank you thank you so much and I really like it that we're including compliments and how important that is for staff morale so I'm not surprised we want this social workers gold award are there any questions yes how many complaints were made against the Woundsworth Children Services this year this financial year yes how many complaints I don't have the data to hand but for quarters one and two this year I've got the data in the report for last financial year I need to come back to you after the committee if it's not the data containing the report because I wouldn't want to give you the wrong figures thank you very much are there any other questions anybody else got Ms. Haroon so when I asked about complaints I meant like the corporate complaints statutory non-stratory all type of secondly on the page number 91 there's another column which is added this year that's complaint disengaged what does it mean yeah thank you complaint disengaged means when somebody started the complaints process and they've asked to make a formal complaint and then part way through the process they've decided that they don't want to continue for a variety of reasons okay thank you for your scrutiny Ms. Haroon does anybody else have any further questions no okay one more and then that's that's the limit yeah it's about the corporate complaints sorry let me yes so page number 106 so last year you know the education was higher compared to the social complaints and this year I can clearly see there is improvement which is 25% reduction whereas the other side is 120% increase is a social care so could you explain the reasons and how you can balance yeah absolutely I think the percentage increase is quite misleading because it's a small number of complaints so proportionally it's pushed it up absolutely I think it's three better use of the statutory complaints procedure the next item we're moving on to is a new policy we've got in place which better sets out how we apply the statutory complaint regulations so we have been making decisions in the statutory complaints team to put some of the social care complaints through the corporate process that aren't part of the children at complaints procedure and I think that might account for the slightly higher number of social care corporate complaints okay so I'm going to ask the committee to note this report do you note this report agreed thank you thank you very much Ms. Carissa so we can now move to the next item on the agenda children's act 1989 statutory complaints policy paper number 24 to 338 and again Ms. Carissa if you could just briefly introduce this thank you chair so yeah we've known for some time that it would be good practice to have a public facing complaints policy that sets out how we apply the statutory complaint regulations because they are complicated and they are difficult to understand it was identified by the ombudsman that we didn't have the policy in place and that was in relation to an adult social care complaint and we mirrored this in adult social care and put a statutory complaints policy in place so as I said it's good practice and it's to help people who are making complaints understand how we apply the complaint regulations in simple terms thank you very much I thought it was pretty straightforward has anybody got any questions on that no okay well this paper is actually for decision but our parent governors and our diocese representatives would not vote on this because it's council business rather than an education function yes yes so can I take a vote on this we're all agreed agreed thank you very much everybody okay now we can move to the next item which is eight ones with corporate plan actions and key performance indicators for 24 25 this report provides a mid-year progress update on the delivery of our ambitious corporate plan and quarter two performance indicator results related to the remit of this committee and I believe Miss O'Connor will now provide an overview to the paper thank you for joining us thank you so as you so eloquently put chair this is the routine report that comes to this committee every six months it contains the performance at the end of the quarter two for the indicators within the remit of this committee and just to refresh you those the indicators that you agreed back in June it also provides an update against the actions within the corporate plan that is the actions that fall specifically within the remit of this committee and again those are actions that you agreed back in June you'll note there's only one red rated indicator there's a full explanation included for the performance there my team work very closely that's the corporate performance team work very closely with children's services so I can I'm happy to report that we're seeing improved performance on that red rated indicator in quarter three but I'm sure colleagues from children's can take any questions on that or anything else in the committee report thank you so much has anybody got any questions on we're so lucky on this committee because we have so much narrative with our key indicators I know the other committees don't get that and it really really is appreciated I always find this paper extremely interesting have we got any questions on it that anybody would like to ask can see miss haroon yeah so when I look at the actions it's quite a lot so some of the actions I can see really smart but and I can see the explanations it makes sense to me however some of the actions are not smart so because it's hard to my year so I can give an example so at page number 150 so I can read it as a power outreach offer through working in partnership with little village we will deliver baby boxes which contain much needed essentials for the partners and so on but there is no numbers you know what is before what is after so how we can measure and you can explain the data so so that's a really good example of where it's a new program that's been put in place so we were talking about that earlier so we generally don't set targets for new programs we allow them to baseline what we do with the actions is that we set specific targets for something to be delivered within the year so that's where the kind of smart element comes in and what you would see for example if there were no baby boxes that had been delivered which obviously isn't the case because we talked about that earlier you'd see that reported there together with what action we were taking thank you very much any other questions yes I can see councillor apps sorry I'm struggling to find the page reference again but it relates to the initial health assessments for children which for looked after children rather which is below target but the reviews for the health assessments are consistently high and be good to understand some more about the context for this is there an impact on children from this and is there anything the committee needs to do in order to support that work thank thank you thank you the initial health assessments have been an ongoing challenge there's a couple of reasons for that the demographic of the children that we're bringing into care at the moment is generally between 13 to 17 and their children who are display a lot of difficult challenging behavior we have a timeline for their initial health assessments and engaging and encouraging them often to see a doctor they have to see a pediatrician who they haven't met before is quite a challenge to get them in the time scale we're also dealing with medics that have particular appointment times so we're working with with St George's with the NHS and we've got a task and finish group that my service manager is chairing at the moment in order to get those to be more timely the reviews are more regularly booked in we've worked with the children longer they're more settled in their placements so we're able to get them to those appointments in a way that meets their health needs now those the initial health assessments may be slightly low but all of our children looked after are having their health needs met so we can assure the committee that that is happening they just might not be getting to those initial appointments in the time scales that are identified Councillor Osborne Mr. Roon can you turn your microphone on thank you yeah also on children looked after it's I couldn't help but notice how regularly the children get moved from one placement to another and I wonder if you can tell us why does that happen but perhaps more importantly what support is there for the children that get moved and that it's something to make sure that they start and end well their placement of course thank thank you given that the behavior and the presenting issues for many of our children at that age generally between 13 and 17 their needs are quite high so they've often suffered early abuse neglect trauma signs of chronic trauma ongoing they're engaging or they're being exploited sexually criminally and often have emotionally abusive relationships with their parents often these children are difficult to place in foster families because foster families find them difficult to manage so we will move them into residential care for a targeted period of time in order to offer them an intensive therapeutic program and often to kind of as a circuit breaker in many ways to break some of the cycles and patterns of currently abusive behavior that they're suffering with but also to give them space to engage in a psychological intervention before we then step them down into a lower support residential and then back into a foster family and those moves can happen quite quite kind of within a kind of 18 month period they're all planned they're supported and we work with our children to make sure that they get what they need we have a virtual therapeutic hub for all of these children who are in these placements which comprises of a social worker but placement stability worker a therapist who follow the children around so they're not constantly making new relationships that those that hub around them follow follows them to enable the kind of the work with the placement to be what they need but also to step them down into a family environment as soon as we can one of the measures that we've always used is the Offstate measure about their rating of schools and obviously we're very proud of our outstanding rating for 95 percent is a very good record the problem is that Offstate won't be making these judgments on schools anymore do you know how we're going to use that metric because I think that metric right now is something that we rely on and it seems to have run in our favor what are we going to do in that metrics not there yeah we're starting to look at that and we're actually looking at the the the judgment areas and we're going to be reporting those so I mean one of the things that we're looking at is the is the consistency sort of leadership amount but they've changed the sort of the the areas slightly so it's quite difficult to compare like for like but moving forward we're going to look at a sort of a scorecard approach in terms of looking at the areas that they judge on and seeing how our schools perform with it within those various judgments and that's going to be easier better for us because then naturally it allows us to see the areas in which our schools need to to work on and we need to support them with as opposed to looking at this overarching judgment which quite frankly doesn't mean too much these these new areas are going to mean more to schools and actually probably more to parents and it will be easier for us to then work with schools in terms of developing their their work in these specific areas moving forward uh council owens just picking up on that um we have had a um a school in in wandsworth it's the secondary school my sons attend that has just been ofsted inspected under the new regime uh just just as opposed to George and actually it came out as outstanding overall it was good before that and um i realize obviously we have this new system in place but i was quite astonished to see that um yes it's it's you have to be in all five ranks as before and it will be broken down but actually it was exactly the same in some ways as the old regime because it has come out as an outstanding school there's none there's none of this it's just outstanding of this and that whatever that's it so yes there have been changes but obviously they have they haven't in other ways thank you so a comment rather than a question sorry but i'm just picking up on George because it actually it's not as complicated as it sounds thank you thank you for uh the comment and probably touching on political things here because it's obviously the new government that's brought this in and overall it is going to be uh much better as miss veneroli has said uh councillor birchall um i just wanted to ask you about school absences i see that we are better than the london average but still you know 18 percent of secondary school children is depressingly large number of children not not taking up their their opportunity for education how are we or what are we doing on this oh page 178 the very last thing absence in schools yeah i mean one thing i would say like i said we are performing better um we have a lot of work going on around attendance at the moment we have the internal think attendance group which i chair which is um cross agency cross directorate um we also have a schools attendance group which is um has a vast range of of attendees from a range of schools at different levels uh and is chaired by the head of the education welfare service um we are currently looking at a piece of work around emotional based school avoidance so ebsa which we are seeing is one of the things that um we are noting in terms of that absent piece um and i was actually working with kat and speaking with her earlier about how we include that in our early help work and also we were discussing how the youth strategy might also help us with the attendance piece because actually if you can engage children that don't attend school through a youth offer and build that trusted relationship um there's evidence um from some local authorities that that youth offer can actually impact quite significantly on school attendance so we're really trying to work like i said so that our strategies aren't in isolation that they actually impact lots of different areas of work so as much as as i said we want every child to be attending school every single day because for a child not in school means they're not learning and that's going to impact on their outcomes and their life chances so um just to reassure you that there are significant pieces of work around attendance um and within the think attendance group actually our focus has always been um severely absent children so that 50 percent and below um so what we've obviously started to do we've started there to really focus on those children who are we have most concern about um and because we're having such a significant impact on that severely absent group we're now obviously moving the levels up so we're now looking at our persistent absent group obviously below 90 percent um but we as i said we want every child to attend um and we have very very good data sets because now obviously with the the government introducing that statutory requirement for schools to uh return data um we actually have day by day information so it's real-time data as opposed to what we used to have which was the lag data through the census so um as i said it's there's some really positive work going on we're working very hard to address uh non-attendance of children attending ones with schools thank you very much so you really are sort of um identifying why some cohorts are not not attending schools that's good thank you absolutely and on an individual student basis so we actually have the children which schools they attend so we know exactly who they are and then we look at what um agencies are already involved with those children because this isn't something that schools can just do themselves that parents can do we have to take um you know a whole collective approach to non-attendance because like we say attendance is everyone's business so that's our approach to uh improving outcomes when it comes to attendance let's just start i just wanted to add what one of the uh areas what i think is um particularly uh worth noting in terms of think attendance group again is that kind of cross-directorate working in terms of uh our directorates engagement with housing and thinking about the impact of temporary accommodation and the high levels of family in temporary accommodation and how that can have an impact on an absence and i know that miss van arelli is doing a lot of work working with housing and they're they're uh in invite involved in that um think attendance group uh thank you for all the work being done in this incredibly important area thank you councillor birch for that question which has elicited a lot of interest um from everybody this paper is uh for information so do we take it for information we note the report agreed thank you very much we now move to the final paper on tonight's agenda which is quarter two budget monitoring paper number 24 to 343 um and i think mr hallock i'm going to skip the introduction although i did enjoy it very much in a world grappling with economic turbulence and societal changes our budget serves as a beacon of hope and resilience for many children and families and i totally agree mr hallock if you'd like to introduce the final paper yeah um i'll just say we the i don't know i'll take questions but um the positions move very slightly i think that will be a little bit repetitive the story i'll allow to come out in the questions but maybe i'll save the time um we are managing the resource um all the things that we control the controllables is really in the right direction all the agency costs staffing etc etc it's those demand budgets anything linked to send is a pressure and um obviously social care placements and we're talking small numbers we've done a lot of demand and i might include some of that in the paper next but really our demand management stats are excellent and you can compare them against any benchmark um small numbers just move the needle so much which makes it really really hard and um i can't say it won't get worse but will not get terribly worse that's what i can say thank you very much mr hallock and yeah joking um aside um yeah thank you for all the work that you and your team do i know that you were leading on on this for for the whole of london in some in some areas so really outstanding work has anybody got any questions councillor apps it's kind of a compliment kind of a question but one thing that i've really admired from seeing the work of children's close up is the fact that something that i might just at first sight think well that's just a demand-led pressure that you can't you know that you can't have any impact on that budget wise that how creatively but still with children at the center the children's team look on that so that's the first thing to say in this um but just to check with you is there anything that you've got your sights on at the moment that you think like there's an area where we're going to focus on trying to make sure we manage that budgetary pressure difficult question maybe i think you're right there's the problems are national most of these but we do our best to do what we can locally as best as possible and we can see that and a lot of it comes down to rashid and his team in the decision making those two make that makes a difference one placement's a million pounds these days that's a big decision to make as we've just discussed earlier so i think there is we can look at um it does probably on every billboard at the moment but ai is the future it is going to improve the way we work productivity definitely whether that means staffing reductions definitely means making life easier where we can focus on the important stuff and take away administrative tasks you can summarize your week's emails in a second these days with co-pilot and things like that there's so many things that are going to happen we really want to embrace that we do have a little automation process we've been developed in the last term that makes it easy in the front door for our referrals to be processed without a person doing it so that alleviates pressure there um the next step is to make that right into mosaic and access and and do more um which we'll get to so i think there's quite a lot in that space councillor corner did you have a question yes thank you just a brief question um thank you mr hallock uh very comprehensive and um i i do have a question around the um use of taxis um which is detailed on page 189 i know we we have briefly discussed this before in a meeting um clearly the taxi uh costs are going up substantially even when um the director is doing an excellent job of controlling um other costs in other areas including in transport um other local authorities have been able to work with taxi companies to to reduce costs in some some instances um is are there plans to explore doing that here or do you think those have been uh those avenues have been exhausted so i think the main thing is whether there's competition in the market so we have about 20 providers we have a dynamic purchasing system that allows automatic competition to get the best price at any time for every route so every single route goes out there's taxi requirement um we used to have and a more expensive i would say bus service where actually made sense to have more taxis but post-covid inflation petrol prices um all the rest though petrol is coming down so some of those prices that pressures has ceased or eased um we've been able to move more and more children onto buses because it is more cost effective it does encourage independence um we yeah taxis uh is not the preferred choice but sometimes it is required and it has become more and more expensive um with inflation at the moment benchmarking says our taxis are not hugely more expensive than others um our bus service was more expensive than others but though we've kept nearly constant prices actually we put two new buses on um numbers are up and costs are actually flat under the new provider london hire who've done a super job quality wise and um encouraging us to put more and more children around to buses which is thank you very much so are this papers for information agreed that we take it for information agreed thank you everybody and uh councillor butch will i know you always like to have the last word i do like to have the last word just this this once anyway i would just like to thank miss haroon for putting on or helping to organize the event that we had at the civic suite for information for for send children so thank you very much it's really interesting and um well done for doing it here here here thank you so much for that right thank you everybody for excellent scrutiny tonight