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Agenda and decisions
December 12, 2024 View on council website Watch video of meetingTranscript
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to this meeting of the Planning Applications Committee, the meeting of December 2024. We've got a reasonably busy night tonight, so let's crack on. My name's Tony Bellton. I'm a councillor for Battersea Park Ward in Battersea. I'm chair of the Planning Applications Committee. I will be asking members, that is councillors who have contributions to make, to introduce themselves when we get to them, not all in one go, but I will introduce or ask people to introduce themselves on the top table, if they would. So, beginning on my left. Good evening, everyone. I'm Nick Calder. I'm the Head of Development Management at Wandsworth Council. Good evening. My name is Duncan Moores. I'm the External Legal Advisor. Good evening, everybody. My name's Callum Wernham. I'm Democratic Services and clerking the committee this evening. Okay. Thank you. Have we got any apologies for absence? None received. No apologies. In fact, we've got, yes, clearly a full house. And have we got any declarations of interest? Anyone got any pecuniary interests? Councillor Humphreys? Thank you, Chair. Councillor Guy Humphreys, Councillor for Southfields in Putney, an opposition speaker on this committee. I've got an interest, not pecuniary, but in item number six, 150 to 170, Penwith Road. I'm a very close neighbour. I've had dealings with the people concerned with the applicant, so I'll step off the committee for that one. Any other declarations of interest? Councillor White. I'm not sure that it affects tonight, but I'm a member of Community Renewable Energy Wandsworth. And you are? Sorry, Councillor Paul White from the Tootinbeck Ward. And a member of, as I say, Community Renewable Energy Wandsworth, but I draw no financial benefit from my involvement with them. I'm sorry to have a, we're finished, right? We're on the left of the minutes. Ah, I've seen the copy of the minutes. Have you, Councillor Humphreys? Happy for me to sign the minutes as a correct record? Agreed. Right. Now, I think that's correct. Now we move on to the applications. There are 12 applications tonight, which is one of our busier occasions recently. Um, and we have several councillors, four councillors here, uh, who want to speak on various items. In deference to their evening, but more particularly the public gallery's evening, um, I, I'm going to take the order of the meeting as follows. Item 7, uh, the Innes Gardens application. Item 8, the Haywood Gardens. Item 9, uh, the Courtess Road. And item 10, uh, the rather different, but similar in one sense, as a Councillor Estate, Ackroyd and Estate application. We've got representations from the councillors. Can I make it clear that these representations, um, are about the councillor's view of, of what they're doing and what they're representing? They cannot be asked planning, strictly planning, uh, questions. They're not planning officers. They don't have planning expertise. So the questions are about their presentations and what they have to say and indeed what their constituents think, which is fair enough. Um, now on the first application, which is, um, uh, Councillor Austin, which is to speak. Then there's, uh, then on the second one, councillors, Sutter's and Ann Bash and the third Councillor Austin. I just wonder whether, seeing that all three are these one estate, whether we just want an introductory remark about the estate before we get on with, for the councillors, if that's okay by the councillors. Okay. Mr. Calder, an introduction about the three estates, three applications in general. Thank you. Yes. I'll, I'll hand over to, uh, Cathy Malloy, who'll do a little brief introduction on that. I just wanted, before we start, is just to draw members' attention, uh, I sent, uh, all members, uh, an email earlier today that the new, uh, national planning policy framework has been updated, um, and it makes various, uh, a few changes, um, and emphasizes house building, um, and increases mandatory, mandatory targets, um, makes a number of other, uh, changes to it. So, um, uh, myself, uh, officers and our legal advisor have reviewed the MPPF because, uh, because it's released today. It now becomes a material consideration. Um, we've, uh, consider, uh, that, uh, all the matters raised in reports and the assessment and the recommendations are in line with the new, uh, MPPF. So, I am quite happy that we'll, we, we don't need to change any recommendations. Uh, we have an up-to-date local plan, which is one of the main thrusts of it. And we have a seven-year, uh, housing land supply, which is another thrust of it. So, without further ado, and if you do have questions, you, uh, members, you can always come back to me on that email. Um, I'd hand over to Cathy, who's going to do a brief introduction. Sorry. Sorry. It's Councillor Givindia, East Putney Councillor. In light of what Mr. Calder just said, perhaps Mr. Moore could actually make some points clear about the MPPF. If I haven't had the chance to read it, um, I think it came out in the middle of the afternoon. Is it a material consideration in that, that the MPPF is effective? Is it a consultation where it's a material consideration, but of a lesser quality? Uh, so, so in some ways, I think to just throw MPPF recently announced this afternoon into the well of the chamber to say, that's it, uh, I think we need to know a little more to say how material it is and what, uh, how does it impact on our individual decisions? I can see from Mr. Calder's point of view slightly differently, but our decisions. Count, excuse me, Councillor Givindia. Um, in a way, I agree with you, but we've been advised that it makes no material difference today. We, this, uh, uh, we live in a very dynamic world. Things are changing all the time, um, and it's a long enough agenda for us to sit through and listen for a 10-minute discussion to conclude it makes no difference. I'm not prepared to accept, we've been assured it doesn't make any difference on a first glance, um, so I can ask Mr. Malloy to introduce. Yeah, that's fine. Okay. Um, sorry, who do you want to write to you? Mr. Moores? I'm happy, forgive me. Right, okay. I'm happy to add to the email that, uh, Mr. Calder sent to all members this afternoon. So, we, yeah, it was published, I think, about midday today, um, there was a, a session in the Commons, um, from the Minister and the, the Shadow Minister discussing all the elements. It's very difficult to summarise an 80-page document prior to, to the applications this evening, but, um, members can be assured that we've considered whether any changes within this national policy affect the consideration of your applications this evening, and the recommendations considered within those, and there are, there are no changes that need to be brought to members' attention, Chairman. Thank you. Ms. Malloy? Uh, good evening, everyone. I'm Cathy Malloy, um, Principal Planning Officer in Wandsworth. Um, so I'm going to do a very brief overview in terms of the applications that are before us this evening, um, items seven, eight, and nine. Um, and I'll just show my screen, just one moment. Can you set this up? Oh, it's going to be on, anyway. It's going to be on. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. So just in terms of, just to give an overview of where the applications are located, this is the Ashburton Estate in Putney, and we've got three, um, applications on the agenda this evening. Um, one for Innisf Gardens, um, which are two sites here. We've got Hayward Gardens, which again are two sites, Cortis Road, which the main site is there. There's also some improvements to the play area there and also improvements to the children's playground, um, in the middle of the site. So I think we're going to pause there, um, and the council's going to speak and then we'll go back and go through each one of the, um, applications in detail. Okay. Just so that I get this right. Um, I know the area pretty well, but this is Putney Heath at the bottom of the page. Correct. Uh, so for those people who automatically think in map terms, like I sometimes do, the north is in the bottom part of the picture and the south is in the top part of the picture as it were. Yeah. Okay. Understood. Okay. I think that's the scene set in a very broadest sense. So over to Councillor Austin. Thank you very much, Chair. Sorry, I do beg your pardon. I should have said, I'm sure all four of you know, you've got five minutes each and, uh, that does actually mean, uh, Councillor Sutters and Councillor Ampers, you're going to have to split your five minutes, but I think you know that. Uh, okay. Councillor Austin. Thank you very much, Councillor Burton. Can I just start by thanking you as Chair for allowing me to represent the residents of Innisf Gardens tonight? Um, given today's announcements, I'm fully aware of the vogue for the planning decisions to be taken away from local residents, but we as elected members need residents to have confidence in the decisions this council makes. I'm afraid that the perception many of my residents have fair or otherwise is that this council is trying to sneak this in before Christmas. I could, I really could be here for a long time talking about the deficiencies of the application. In fact, this entire report just goes to show the lackadaisical nature of the Council's approach to the Ashburton development scheme. I lost count of the number of times in this report that the development is either referred to as Hayward Gardens, HG1, HG2 or even the wrong number of units in the proposed scheme on multiple occasions. Instead though, I want to concentrate on three matters. Firstly, parking. From the outset it was acknowledged that parking is going to be an issue as Ashburton relies heavily on cars. That is in part the reflection of the P-TAL rating of 2. The loss of parking spaces will be most acutely felt in Innisf Gardens where 16 parking spaces will be lost and 10 garages removed. It is essential therefore that an accurate parking survey and report is submitted in which current and future parking demands can be accurately assessed. The report states that surveys were conducted on the 7th and 8th of February 2023 following the Lambeth methodology. This is not the case. The Lambeth methodology explicitly recommends avoiding survey weeks that encompass school holidays and suggests steering clear of weeks preceding and following holidays. The surveys were carried out the week before half term holidays. As a consequence, the results relating to the existing parking stress levels cannot be relied upon. The traffic assessment survey is fundamentally flawed as it relies on data from 2011 and is significantly outdated and the 2021 census data should be used instead. This oversight means that the survey should be redone using up-to-date information before the matter can be determined. Lastly, on the parking front, 50% of parking spaces in the area are not controlled by a CPZ. This lack of regulation means the condition proposed in the report is unenforceable. Secondly, loss of amenity. The loss of amenity in this development is going to have a serious impact on the residents in Innes Gardens. The loss of 10 garages, 27 storage units without any provision to replace them is wrong. All apartments have storage issues and space constraints. In older buildings, this issue is worse. Removing these units and not replacing them is going to cause more crowding in the apartments and inevitably caused a spillout into the communal area causing a fire and safety risk. Lastly, LP24 sets out the preferred housing mix for new developments which says that one-bedroom dwellings make the highest proportion of affordable homes with 40 to 45%. But this council, which should be considered, updated its partial planning review last week of which it said that the existing policy caters for a relatively high proportion of one-bed properties, which does not fully reflect the types of homes most needed. Why are we not following best practice and catering for the housing need regardless of the current local plan? My residents are not NIMBYs. They are not anti-housing. They simply want the right homes in the right places. There is, Mr Chairman, much more that I could say about this application. The design review panel had various issues in the report that have not been adequately addressed. The design is considered to have a negative visual impact on the surrounding area. It does not complement the existing architectural style leading to discordant appearance. The design fails to adequately address issues of privacy and overlooking. Policy LP27 emphasises the importance of high-quality, well-designed residential environments. This policy highlights the need for sufficient private outdoor space, natural light and overall residential amenity that all new developments must comply with. Only four units comply with this standard. Since COVID, the emphasis on private outside space and how important it is to people's mental wellbeing simply makes the substandard offering of the outside space in this proposal unacceptable. If this committee allows a badly thought out substandard development proposal that fails on so many grounds to be waved through, then it will open the floodgates to challenges on developments that have been refused. There is only so many times that you can say it does not strictly comply and allow for some flexibility before the cumulative impact on residents far outweighs the benefit to existing and new residents. This scheme is far beyond what is acceptable and I urge you to please vote against it tonight. Thank you. APPLAUSE OK, OK. I think you've made your point clear. Very excellent. Five minutes, 20 seconds. Not bad at all. And I commend you for your elegant positioning of your constituents' concerns. Now, let me... This is an opportunity for members to ask questions of the councillor concerned. He raised several issues definitely of planning issues like parking, loss of amenity and the right houses in the right place. Those are questions that you can by all means ask of officers that are qualified to give the councillor's official position. I'm not interested nor can we be legally in what Councillor Austin, with respect, thinks on those particular issues. We have advisers to do that. So, any questions to the councillor about his presentation? Councillor Govindia. Thank you, Chair. Just what you didn't mention was the play areas. And I'm really reading through some of the correspondence of the local residents. There is concern about the play areas, the overlooking or not overlooking the safety and the security and so on. And, in fact, there is only this evening a letter from one of the young mothers saying exactly the same. So, I don't know what your residents feel about the revised play arrangements. And, secondly, I'd sort of say, well, do you think... A lot of people say that they have made their points but they have not been heard. Do you feel that they have felt... They feel adequately represented by the councillor in the review of the original plans? Thank you very much, Councillor. Unlike the other two developments, Innes Gardens doesn't have a specific play area attached to that area itself. So, there is... So, they'll be using the main play area on Tilsley Road. While they are... While, obviously, there is an extension and bigger and brand new equipment going into that play area. The emphasis is around... More for them, the emphasis is very much that the balconies are overlooking and the loss of immunity for the existing residents that are there at the moment. I think everybody welcomes the extension of the play area and we should do even more to support young minds in the area. But, because this area doesn't specifically have a play area for themselves, they're using the bigger communal area in... I think it's not been the biggest issue that has come across with residents when I've met with them. Other questions? No. Well, thank you, Councillor Austin. As I said, well presented. Now, can we turn to the actual matter itself and anyone want to question officers on any of the details? Sorry? Should we have the overview from Cathy first? Oh, I beg your pardon. I beg your pardon. Thank you. Can we first of all have an overview of the application from Ms Molloy before moving on to councillors' questions? I beg your pardon. Go on. Thank you. I'll just do a brief overview of the application. Apologies. Yeah, there we go. Thank you. Thank you. New technology. Sorry. Sorry about that. Go on. Just in terms of the application, it relates to two sites, Innisf Gardens 1 and also Innisf Gardens 2, which can be seen on the presentation. Innisf Gardens 1 is at the western end of Innisf Gardens and it accommodates 10 garages and also parking spaces. Innisf Gardens 2 has existing storage sheds and various other areas of storage. So, in terms of the actual layouts of the two proposals, we can see these here. And then in terms of the kind of ground floor areas, in terms of Innisf Gardens 1, we've got here, we've got bike sheds, substations and various other elements to accommodate the new properties. And then in terms of Innisf Gardens 2, we've got a unit of ground floor and, again, various bike storage. Just some visuals, really, just to show the context. This is Innisf Gardens 1. So, this is the western site. So, we can kind of see the heights there. And we are within a mid-rise zone, so, you know, the local plan does allow for buildings up to six storeys. And we can kind of see the architecture there that's being proposed. And then Innisf Gardens 2, again, a similar form to what's being proposed at Innisf Gardens 1. And this is just to highlight some of the landscaping that's going to take place in and around the site. So, we've got additional planting and various other landscape improvements and changes there. And then in terms of the central playgrounds within the estate, that is going to be also upgraded and enhanced. So, in summary, the proposal seeks the provision of 29 affordable units, all for social rent. And we've got 12 one-beds, 11 two-beds, four three-beds and two four-beds. Enhancements to the existing central playgrounds. Some additional landscaping and tree planting across the wider estate. As stated, it's within a mid-rise zone, so suitable for buildings up to six storeys. And also sustainable, meeting the home quality mark. And also carbon reductions of 71 per cent. Thank you. Thank you. We'll get to parking if a Councillor has asked about it later. Councillor GOVINDIA, I think you want to. Thank you, sir. I mean, it's a good question, Ms. Malloy. In two of the three applications, there is reference to protected legal species, legally protected species, rather. So, it doesn't say what they are, and it doesn't say, the report doesn't say what has happened about that protection or whether they're needed to be protection. In case of Innisf Gardens, in fact, there appear to be no protected legal species in the area. So, I just want you to expand on what they are, what measures have been taken to safeguard them and so on, and why this is missing from Innisf, given that it's largely the same landscape, same tree cover and so on. And just turning to the matter of parking. Again, the reports talk about that in the event of the development happening, the new units will be excluded from any future CPZ. And again, there is lack of clarity in that, that the housing department has its own estate parking control arrangements. There are adopted roads where there is no CPZ, although there may be one in the future. So, is it the intention to exclude new residents from a future CPZ, or is it the intention to exclude them from the existing estate regulated parking? So, the reports are unclear, and they apply to several of the applications. So, it would be helpful to know. I imagine Mr. Tiddley would have something to say about the parking. But, Ms. Malloy, on the other issue. I think you're referring to the constraints in terms of the report. So, there's a general database that deals with ecology and things like that, and that will just flag up if there's any protected species within the locality. So, as part of that, a preliminary ecological assessment has been carried out, and that's identified nesting birds and bats and things like that. So, that has been reviewed by our ecologist, and also has requested bat surveys and things like that, and has been working with us and also the applicant to make sure that anything which goes back, there will be ecological enhancements across the estate, bird boxes, bat boxes and things like that. So, there was no evidence that there would be any harm to any protected species. Mr. Tiddley, perhaps you can address both Councillor Govindia's points and the more general, I think it's fair to say, points that Councillor Austin made in his presentation. Hello, Councillors. David Tiddley, the transport strategy – well, the Head of Transport Strategy. Before I do, Councillor, I was just going to ask Ms. Malloy if she wanted to say something about the parking, because I know she knows all about it anyway, and it was a question whether I should just add more at that point. Not really. Just in terms of, you know, in terms of the parking, we understand obviously there is going to be a loss of parking across the three sites. However, there has been survey work, and I understand, you know, Councillor Austin's point about the survey data and some of the issues that he's raised with that. But, from my understanding and from the comments from our Transport Officer, we're happy with the evidence provided. Okay. Okay. Well, I'll add to that then. So, first of all, just to come back on the issue of surveys being undertaken in half term, I have to admit that was the first time I'd heard of that. But, having just quickly checked the timetable, it did appear that the half term in 2023 was the 13th of February to the 17th of February, so these surveys were taken outside that period. So, we would be comfortable with the survey data that's been collected, notwithstanding that the data showed adequate levels of vacant space in any event. But, just to take that a little step further, the surveys indicated for this particular development that there were 39 vacant spaces on the streets in the sort of middle of the night when most residents need to park near their homes. There are 1,500 provinces on these states. And, just to also add that we would expect that 29 units, despite the fact that they would be refused CPZ permits for any future controlled parking zone, 29 extra residential units could generate about 10 cars on the basis of general home ownership in that area. And, those could be therefore accommodated on the street. To take Councillor Govindia's point, we would be excluding from a future controlled parking zone how the housing estate manages parking on the estate is largely a matter for them. I'm sure that they would clearly manage the arrangements as they see fit. The other point, I think, taking Councillor Austin's view about the potential unenforceability of a non-CPZ rule when there's no CPZ, if you like. So, that is taken. I mean, that's a genuine concern. I think that clearly, if there is a problem or would become a problem in the local area, then the solution would be to consider the introduction of a controlled parking zone rather than to resist development. And that's generally been a position that's been held certainly at appeals when we've had this particular issue. But even if the development generates cars, despite the fact that it would be excluded from a future CPZ, then on the basis of current car ownership levels in that area, we would expect those cars to be able to be accommodated on the street. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Um, could I just, well, first of all, could I just point out to members of the public gallery that all the members of the committee are residents of Wandsworth and they all live with parking in their own areas and they all know the practicalities of it. Um, whatever your feelings are, these are the, this is the advice given to us and that's what we're taking as the advice given. Now, who is the next Councillor Apps, then Councillor Coakley, and then Councillor Govindia? They love their technology. Rick, thanks to a voice. Hello, I'm Councillor Apps and I'm the Councillor in Shaftesbury and Queenstown ward, well, one of the three. Um, I wanted to come on to the... Would you care to start, would you care to start again? Yeah, I wanted to talk about a bit about the Met Police's, um, findings, um, because they mentioned about the importance of CCTV. I know that we'll be looking at, um, you hopefully will be looking at what more you could do that the residents would like to see in that area, and that's really critical. I mean, people's homes are just so important to them, it's really important that the, the area, um, is, you know, a good place to live. And when I visited the area and spoke to residents, one of the issues which cropped up was about the fact that there were motorbikes driving into the Innist Gardens area and that was making people feel very unsafe. And I see the police have recommended, um, CCTV, and I want to know if you've, if there's been discussions with residents about that, if we're looking at those kinds of developments. Um, and, um, and if not, how that can be taken forward. Thank you. Um, thank you. Um, just in terms of the, the application, it has, the applicant has met with the Met Police, our Secure by Design, um, consultee. So there has been discussions on that and there, that detail is within the Design and Access Statement. In terms of CCTV, there is condition 23, which asks the details of CCTV, um, under the lighting condition. So that, that will be considered as part of any condition. Thank you. Okay. Councillor Coakley. Thank you, Chair. Uh, Councillor Coakley for St Mary's ward, um, um, the Councillor Austin had, uh, mentioned the, the survey data for the amount of road trips that was taken from 2011, and they were saying that the council should have been using the 2021 data, and I didn't see an explicit response to that in the report, so I was wondering if David or any officers had some reasoning behind that and why they're still comfortable with the survey as it is. Mr. Tudy? Thank you, Chair. The 2011 census data indicates that 20% of journeys to work are undertaken by car. That number hasn't changed dramatically in the 10 years since, but clearly for the purpose of having a travel plan and looking at how the new residents would move around the area and the extent to which they change their behaviour between public transport and vehicles. It clearly would make sense to use the latest census data as the space, but it doesn't really change the recommendation in the paper. Councillor Govindia? Thank you, Chair. Just going back to the issue of parking, there's a reference here to two parking spaces for disabled people, one per each of the two blocks in Innes Gardens. Is that considered to be adequate? Because my understanding certainly of knowing some disabled people is that almost anyone who owns a car and is a disabled person would like a parking space and would like it quite close to their home so that they don't have to wheel themselves there or go unaided over a longer distance. And the second point I'd make about parking capacity that Mr. Tiddly earlier mentioned is that it's all very well that within a two-mile radius there were 39 car spaces available, but actually ask a young lady coming home late at night wanting to walk a long distance back from an available car place to a home, it's just not right. This area isn't a particularly safe one at night. And so this theoretical idea that there are spaces, spaces, is not the same as what residents perceive to be available. Sorry, it was, I don't mean this in a, those are interesting remarks which any resident in Innes Gardens would make. I'm not ignoring them, but was there a question as well? So the parking, the planning question would be that is it right to in a sense judge availability of space over a much wider area than what residents perceive to be their neighbourhood? The residents in the state is their neighbourhood and the survey has taken a much larger area to come to the figures. I don't think you'll find that in, I don't think you'll find that in the planning regulations and I think we all can understand that as an issue, right or wrong, in our own streets, in our own blocks of flats, wherever we live in Wandsworth. There are places like it everywhere in the borough. Councillor Owens and Councillor Justin. There is an answer that... The answer about disabled persons has not been answered specifically. It's a specific question. That's what I, that was, I did ask whether you had a specific question. The second one was a matter of political opinion, which we can all have. And I know plenty of people who say parking is too far from my place. It is not a technical decision, but the first one is certainly a technical decision. What was the disability one? I can deal with that. So the levels of disabled parking that are being provided with the application are considered to be compliant with policy. I think the slightly different or added comment I would make is that any disabled person would almost certainly receive sort of preferential benefit from the housing department. Plus, in addition to that, any blue badge holder who lives in the site, they're excluded from the exclusion, if you see what I mean. So a blue badge holder is always permitted to park on the street outside, irrespective of any control parking restriction that might be introduced in the future. Councillor Owens. Thank you. I'm Councillor Owens, Northcote Ward. I just want to pick up a bit on what Councillor Gavindia said earlier to Councillor Austin. And that relates to the impact for officers, the question on children, the impact on children of all of this. Obviously, we've had a lot of correspondence, particularly about the health risks, exposure to hazardous materials and consequences of that. The safety risks with increases of accidents, potentially, and the restricted areas, that impact on children. Their disruption to routine and interference with their learning. But more importantly, with the playground being closed during the construction period, the Tidesley Road playground, there will be a reduction in outdoor play opportunities. What will be available for children during this time? Thank you. Can I, whilst I'm sure an officer will have an answer, or an answer that I hope you find satisfactory, actual disturbance during work is not in the law a planning reason. Otherwise, all development will stop everywhere, which obviously wouldn't be acceptable to any government. So, to make that point. But in terms of, do we have any practical temporary solutions in terms of anything lost? Ms Malloy? Just in terms of the kind of construction and the disturbance. Obviously, this happens on the majority of sites. There will be disturbance, you know, but there is going to be a construction management plan, which would then, you know, manage that. There will be hours of operation in terms of working hours, in terms of, you know, the normal parameters that we normally... There will be the usual safety hoardings and various safety elements as well. This is obviously a council-owned scheme, so there is that level of, you know, kind of more discussions that can take place with the applicant, and we have flagged this up in terms of the representations that have been received. In terms of the kind of play space and bringing that forward, the condition requires it to come forward prior to occupation of the new units. So, there will be a period of time where that work will be undergoing. So, it will be, you know, again, we've raised this with the applicant, and it may be something that can be considered, but we can't do that under the planning process. Okay, Councillor Justin, Councillor Boswell, Councillor Humphreys. Mark Justin, the Councillor for Nine Elms. The councillors at the beginning of this meeting brought up what I thought was a very good point about the timing of this traffic survey, and I don't think it's been properly answered. I mean, for example, in the 1960s, Lord Beeching axed all the railways in Devon and Cornwall, and it turns out that he did his survey in the winter, when there were no tourists. So, it is actually crucial when you did this survey. I live in Albert Bridge Road. I can tell what month it is by the level of my ease of parking. So, if you did it in a certain period, it would make the parking look a lot easier than if you did it in another period. So, I think that because that hasn't been correctly done, or you haven't answered their question, why didn't you do it in the correct period? It makes a huge difference. With respect, Councillor Justin, I don't think you can say it was improperly done. First of all, Mr Tiddly proved that it was not during the school holiday period. And 2nd February is hardly, well, in my experience, you've got the experience as well, I've got the experience, far from being the least busy month of the year. Almost any time of the year, when it's more like summer, there's in some ways less. So, that's just a matter of opinion. Councillor Boswell. Councillor Boswell. Councillor Sheila Boswell, Tooting-Beckward. Going back to play, I wanted to ask a question around that, and children. The new playground that's going to be there looks very impressive, and it's obviously an improvement, and the equipment's going to be great as well. But thinking of the reality of families' lives is some distance from homes, and I noticed in the report that you talk about informal play in the courtyards. Just from a totally practical point of view, for parents to be able to keep an eye on their children, or at least have them nearby, rather than going all the way to the playground, however great it's going to be. So, informal play in the courtyards, if that could be developed, if we could hear a bit more about what that could be. And that's also relevant to Councillor Owen's question about during the time of construction, when of course the playground, the children won't have access to a playground. If there could be informal play in the courtyards, could we hear more about that? Councillor? Ms Molloy, any comment? Just in terms of, you know, there's various, across all three applications, there's various, you know... Are you talking about Innisfarland? Just in terms of, across all three, there is various pockets of play space. So, in terms of Innisfarland, there is, linked to this, the main playground, which again will be improved, and there's been, you know, work done with local children and things to kind of design that space. And then there will also be some more kind of informal, you know, informal space within those courtyards as well. There is no place! Thank you. It's, it's just doorstep play. Public, public, public gallery, can I say, can I say, I know the Ackroydon reasonably well. We all, Ash Burton, sorry, Ash, I get the two confused, but I know it reasonably well, and there is no question that it's an extremely nice estate. And many of us only wish that estates in our own areas were good. And we understand your great concern. We, however, are in a situation where there's a duty on us to provide housing for the homeless. We're trying to consider this in a quasi-judicial sense. That means it has the rules of a law court in some ways. I don't want to overemphasize that we do. And, therefore, you can heckle as much as you like, but actually we're going to carry on and just try and do our best to make sure the estate is as good in the future as it is now. So, if we can just proceed as we were. I think it may have been Councillor Goldley, but I may have lost. No? Oh, Councillor Humphries, I beg your pardon. No problem. Thank you, Chair. There's a lot of references in the report at various places to the construction management plan, as Ms Malloy has already referred to, and also travel plans that aren't bottomed out and finalized yet. And, obviously, we've heard tonight, let alone in our previous correspondence with residents, there's a lot of concern about all these areas. I just wanted to ask how much engagement there will be with the residents with those discussions going forward, because, as we all understand, they're crucial to making this work, and for the residents that live there now, let alone any future residents, to making it successful development. So, could I ask what level of engagement and when that engagement will be with residents in both of those areas, the construction management plan, and also with the details of the travel plan coming forward? Just in terms of planning conditions, it's normally a process which we don't consult on. That's normal across. However, given that it is a council scheme, I'm sure that the applicant is able to liaise with neighbours once they've appointed a contractor. So, once a contractor is appointed, if permission is granted, then that will be the opportunity for, you know, discussions with neighbours and things like that about, you know, what are the issues throughout construction. Thank you, that's helpful. But I think there's a degree of mistrust, though, I say, from the residents that the council is going to fulfil that. So, I don't, for the reassurance of those residents, I don't think it's acceptable at this stage for us to have to say that, you know, the applicant's aware of that. I'd like to ask you if this is to go forward, we could put an informative on to make sure it's formalised in the agreement that the applicant will have those consultations with the residents because it's a key part of what's going to address their concerns. Just in terms of, I would flag up, in terms of, since the application has been in, there's been a big piece of engagement work that's going on in terms of the Ashburton, more generally, not in relation to the planning applications, but broader, more. So, regardless of, regardless of everyone's view, can I ask, technically, Mr Calder, in giving planning permission, if we do so, do we have, can we ask for a view from the applicant about the amount of consultation in future, and can we do it as an informative, or what? My suggestion, thank you, Chair, would be, as Councillor Humphries has said, to put an informative on it, and we'll also write to the director to ensure that there's suitable engagement. I know that there, as Cathy Malloy has mentioned, there is now engagement officers being brought in, and they are trying to encourage and find out more information about it, so that's certainly an area that housing colleagues will look at in detail, but I will ensure that we've got an informative, and write to them directly to cover that. Thank you. Thank you, Mr Calder. I've got one other smaller point to be made, Councillor. Yeah, and to refer that to the travel plan as well, by the way, not just for the construction management plan, travel plan as well. On a completely different matter, Councillor Austin referred in his presentation to another issue that is obviously of significant concern to residents, and that's about the loss of storage space. And we had a case last month, I think it was Toland Square, wasn't it, where we had reprovision of storage space specifically to address those concerns of residents on that estate, and I just wanted to bottom out why we haven't got that in place on this thing, because obviously it's an issue, particularly recently, with the tighter regulation from housing, rightly on fire regulations, about not being able to keep stuff in the stairwells and things like that. So we understand the need to keep those stairwells free, but by default, therefore, it has to be some kind of recompense to residents to make sure they've got someone where they can put their stuff. Thank you. Just in terms of this application, the replacement of storage didn't form part of the application, so we are assessing it in terms of planning policy, and we do not have a planning policy that protects or requires the replacement of storage and sheds. So in terms of, so it is a case-by-case basis, it's dependent, it's dependent on... Whoever it is, other people in the public gallery might be interested in hearing the answer, and I certainly am, and so are the members of this committee. So do continue, Mr Loy. So in terms of, it is a case-by-case basis. However, we have raised the concerns with the applicant, again, who is, you know, within the Council. And going back to the, you know, the engagement officers and things like that, if this is an issue on the estate, that is, you know, where it can be raised for the replacement. But from a planning point of view, it would need permission in its own right, given, you know, the size that it would need. So it's not something we could condition under this, because we haven't made that assessment, and it didn't form part of the application. And in terms of the planning policy, there is no basis to request that on this one. But we have raised it with the applicant, so they are fully aware of the feeling of that. Thank you, Mr Loy. That's helpful. So could I ask again, and I don't know if Mr Calder is the right one to answer this, that there's no policy basis to put a condition on. But again, is it not possible to put an informative on, to raise it, flag it up as an issue of serious concern for residents that needs addressing? So we need to formalise in some way that registration of discontent with what's being proposed tonight. And there is some recourse to a remedy at some point in the future, even if not through this application. As you know, Councillor Humphreys, whether storage space or not is included, it's hardly a planning matter. And it's not, let me finish, let me finish. And it's hardly something that you can blame the planning committee for, one way or another. It's down to the applicants. And the applicants will no doubt hear about this. We know in a similar application elsewhere, they've done their best to improve storage facilities. If the residents can persuade their landlord, in some sense, their freeholder, to provide storage spaces, fair enough. But that is not part of this planning application. Unfortunately or fortunately, it is not. So, Councillor White. Hi. Can I ask a couple of questions about the design? I've already told people who I am. About the design review panel, a couple of findings. One was about the community centre being relocated. And the other one was about the top floor, I think, of IG2 and Haywood Gardens. They were too large and dominant. Could you give comments about that, please? Thank you, Councillor. In terms of the DRP took place in June 2023. So, in terms of the feedback received from the DRP, the scheme was amended. So, in terms of the kind of design of IG2, that was amended in response to some of those comments. In relation to the community building, there was a discussion at the design review panel about incorporating that into the shop, the shops which are in the middle of the estate. However, we've looked at that, and also the applicant and the housing team have also looked at that, but the majority of those shops are on long leases. So, there's not really, they're not really available for that use. However, there is the existing kind of community use down there, the yard. So, I think that's a kind of social enterprise which runs food banks and various things like that. So, there is a community element there already. And there might be an opportunity for one of the units to come available, but that's not formalised. The community centre has nothing to do with inner sky. We're already discussing inner sky. Yes. This is... Sorry. This is... The answer that you've got from Ms Malloy is the answer she gave, and that's not for... Have you finished, Ms Malloy? Yeah, it was just because the DRP, the design review panel, covered all units, all three schemes. I might say I went to the DRP, and that might sound suspicious. It is not. I only go on the condition that I keep quiet and don't say a word, and purely observe part of the rules of the DRP. And on the whole, the review panel were very complimentary about this application, and thought it chimed well with the estate as a whole. I had one or two details that one or two people have picked up. But it was very complimentary, and thought it was an extremely good way of tackling the housing shortage we've got here. But now, we've given this a pretty good go, and people are coming back in for second bites, and I'm very loathe to stop second bites. But let's make sure they're new stuff. Councillor Govindia. Thank you. On page 201, there's a reference to the Employment Development Officer, and a contribution of 30,000 on this. Is there any proposal that this and the other applications about the estate will generate job opportunities for people on the estate? Because the reports are silent about it. And I would have thought that one of the things that the Council has tried to do, wherever it's done estate regen or estate developments, is to find job opportunities. So, where is this 30,000 going for? Why don't the other applications have similar contributions to make, and so on? And my just point on the storage space would be just a question to the planning officers whether storage space is part of the space standards required for units. It would be useful to just know that. Just in terms of the employment contribution, it's just set out within the Planning Obligations SPD. So, if it's under a threshold, I think it's 50 units, but I'll just confirm that. It's a financial contribution. If it's anything above that, then it's an employment plan, basically, which then the developer and our employment team and work match, they work together in terms of coming together and, you know, doing a plan together. But once, if a scheme is under that threshold, then it is just a contribution, which then our employment team will then use, you know, within the borough. Okay. And just in terms of the storage, the only requirement for storage is internal storage. So that's set out in the technical housing standards. So that would be in relation to the new units. Councillor Habs. I beg your pardon. Councillor Habs. Thank you. I think it was in Hayward Gardens I met a resident who was desperate to downsize from their current property, because I think they were playing bedroom tax, et cetera, a local authority resident. Would it be possible for someone from one of the adjacent kind of blocks as part of this wider group to downsize into, say, Innist Garden from Hayward Gardens, for example, or is it just restricted to those sites? My understanding is there's a local lettings plan. So people within the estate are able to put themselves forward to downsize, or if they're over occupying to put themselves on a waiting list, and that will be allocated, you know, by the housing team and the housing department, which is separate to the housing and regeneration department. So there is a—within the section one, or the unilateral undertaking, there would be a local letting plan which would set all that out. My understanding is that that is the procedure for these council. Mr Malloy, I should have possibly jumped in. Thank you. But we have some people from the housing department who might be able to answer that specifically. Do you know what the local lettings plan is? Has it been agreed yet? Can you answer that question? Chair, no, I wouldn't be able to add much more than what Cathy's already explained, that there will be a local lettings plan in place, you know, as things progress. I can't provide more detail. So with luck, you know, there's so many competing demands on council housing, who knows? But the potential is there for people to downsize, if that's the right, or possibly even upsize, though it's unlikely, in the new buildings if they go ahead. Yes, and that's a priority for the housing department. Okay. Councillor Humphreys, and I'm then going to draw it to conclusion. Thank you, Chair, for letting me in under the wire. It's a separate point again. And again, it's something that was raised last time at Committee on the previous application on Tolland Square, but I was trying to find it relevant to that. I'm thinking about future-proofing the estates and provisions for where we're going ahead rather than what's adequate now. And on the things like the food recycling and bulky waste. Again, I know these are things of concern to residents. And I tried to find it in the report, but forgive me, I couldn't find it. The reference is to how we're going to deal with that. Again, when those things get rolled out across the borough more widely, is there a provision in this application to accommodate the food reciting? And also bulky waste, which is always an issue on the estates or somewhere where that's going to go, and we don't want it to become an issue, more of an issue. Just in terms of the refuse, there is space within the two buildings to accommodate the waste. In terms of the bulky waste, that's something that our waste manager has raised, and that's within the consultation comments. So we have put on a condition to secure further details of that. So that would come forward at a later stage. So that's condition 27. That condition 27 also included, we're looking at somewhere to put bulky storage, somewhere to put any kind of storage for residents, because even if it's not a policy, it would be something that residents would appreciate. Thank you. Thank you. Now, I'm happy to go straight to a vote, if a vote is required. Otherwise, the recommendation is the recommendation from the planning officers that this application should be approved. Is that agreed? No. The vote, we need a vote. Those in favour, please show. Those against? That application is passed by six votes to four. We move on to the next application, which is, by myself, is the Hayward Gardens, isn't it? The next one. And that's where Councillor Sutters and Anne Bash are going to give a presentation. We've had the general introductory remarks from Ms Molloy. So, just waiting for... I'm quite happy to take it alphabetically, if that's okay. Councillor Anne Bush. He'd like to go to that. Ah! Well, of course, we defer to the wounded amongst us, don't we? The depth of feeling for residents living in Hayward Gardens is profound. Despite three consultations, many, many people feel that the council just hasn't listened, nor changed the plans for the proposed two buildings, HG1 and HG2. The concerns many residents have expressed to me include massing, loss of privacy, loss of light, the enclosed design of the fourth side of the rectangle, and the loss of open space. I'll do my best to cover them in two and a half minutes, Chair. Page 264, para 53, talks about part F of LP4. And it says, respect the width, scale, and proportion of adjacent buildings. This is to do with massing. The proposed new buildings are higher, over three meters higher, and more than twice as wide compared with the existing buildings. Many local people feel this does not respect the proportions of the existing buildings. And the design review panel said in June 23, appears to support this view. They say on page 255, however, how the building tops are designed is critical, and we do not think the Innisf Gardens IG1 or Hayward Gardens are successful as they feel too large and dominant. Now, loss of privacy. The summary here on overlooking, para 11.7, says, overall on balance, given the distances, orientation, and location of the balconies and degree of overlooking has been found acceptable. The degree of additional impact is not considered substantial. Clearly, this confirms that there is some negative impact. Loss of daylight and sunlight, pages 267 to 271, gives a reduction in the visible sky across many buildings, with losses of VCS ratings from 32% through to 45% in paras 2.9 to 2.31. Para 9.44, it says, a number of isolated windows could not achieve the BRE guidance. Further, many residents are concerned about the overshadowing of the community gardens on the north side of Hayward Gardens, covered in 9.41. This important central amenity will be badly impacted. Clearly, there are significant losses of sunlight and daylight. Loss of open space, page 262, para 2.2, 8% loss of space. Para 2.5 says, whilst the loss of open space would be contrary to policy LP 53, and it goes on. The report justifies this by talking about planning balance. That's the loss of open space is considered acceptable in this instance, is what it says. So clearly, another detriment. In conclusion, of course we need more affordable housing, but these proposals go too far. Several breaches of the planning guidance, and detriment for existing local residents. I hope the committee will reject the application, and the council will come back with a more acceptable development proposal. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor Ambash. Councillor Suttles. I'll try and sub this back as I'm going through, because I don't want to repeat everything that my colleague has said. I speak on behalf of Hayward Gardens again, who have strongly resisted these proposals. And I would say that the council has aggressively pursued them. The complaints are genuine, and they're well thought through. Residents value the existing environment. This is not necessarily about the number of flats and increased density. It is about the buildings themselves, and inappropriate building placement, loss of immunity. Consultation began very, very late. And positioning was fixed, meaning residents had only limited input into peripheral issues. And I really think that's a big issue here. It's also noteworthy that the officers' report employs unverified CGI's. This does not evoke trust, nor aid understanding. Some of them I looked at actually show Hayward Gardens as quite a wide carriageway. And in fact, it's a narrow cul-de-sac, and that's not good either. Support consultants' reports seem to be after the fact. And by styling the area as urban rather than suburban, there is a shift in their conclusions. But it is hard to imagine why you would call this an urban area. If you doubt the reports before you, you really do have to ask questions, and maybe reject this application. Kaplan Design. HG1 and 2 upset the original design narrative, and change the perception of space and outlook. Tacking blocky, overly-modelled building form of varying heights to the clean lines of the original building footprints, risks a disconnect in both design and material integration. And this was not really fully resolved in the application. I did look for it a few times. Also, cycle storage and bikes at ground floor level. This is just not something that should be done in 2024. And it's not good to walk across in the frontage for women. Community facilities are limited to only one oddly-placed community hall, and I'm not really sure why it is where it is. The relocated space place from the central area has lost its safeguards, offered by passive surveillance and overlooking, and lots of residents object to the resighting. As my colleague said, the daylight and sunlight studies flag some unfortunate VSC losses, and the FTP and the transport assessments misrepresent adjacencies, demographics, and ease of access to facilities. The area is PTL2. Residents need their bands and cars for work and for household management. The fall in provision has caused anger, and roof provision should be looked at. Added to this, local buses are now infrequent, and it is a very head fit of household who shops on foot or cycles six to eight kilometres, as the report tells us, Mr. Tiddly. Anyway, finally, internal storage, which has been brought up. When Hayward Gardens was built, adequate internal storage was not an issue, was never an issue in the old days. It was always external storage. So the flats that exist there rely upon extra storage for overspel. The lot lock-ups will have an effect on residents' lives and should be replaced. It's fine saying the new flats will do better, but we should be looking after our existing residents. Thank you, Councillor Sutters. I will be in trouble with the whip because I allowed you both to have about a minute extra. So, but well done between the two of you. Obviously, a very important matter to you and indeed to people in the public gallery and indeed us because, as we said before, it's a very fine estate and we don't want to change that. Ms. Malloy, any comments on this particular application? Sorry. Just in terms of the neighbouring amenity point and the daylight and sunlight report, the findings are fully set out within the officer report and there is some isolated windows which do have more of an impact. However, these are secondary windows and the full justification, as I say, in terms of each of the windows is fully set out in the officer report and also the daylight and sunlight report which has been submitted with the application. In terms of the design of the proposal, this has gone through quite a lot of pre-app discussions, it's gone through the design review panel, it's gone to our design colleagues internally who are broadly supportive of the architecture and the form. You know, in terms of there is going to be a change, these are buildings infilling areas within the estate, so I think we've made it quite clear in the report that there will be an impact. However, on balance and when you review the public benefits, officers are of the view that this is acceptable. In terms of the kind of design, the bulk and the massing, this has been reduced towards the rear of the building to again reduce that impact on surrounding properties. Thank you, Mr Lloyd. Can I just ask you to perhaps cease being a planner for a moment? I'm just an ordinary person. When, I think I know what he means, but you know, for everyone else's benefit. When Councillor Ambash talks about some technical VSH or whatever it was, reducing from 25% to 42%, I can't remember the exact figures. You just now said secondary rooms or some words like that. Can you explain in the type of rooms, what are we talking about, lavatories, kitchens, halls, something that makes, if you know what I mean, and what that means, roughly speaking? Just in terms of some of the areas where it shows more of an impact, often these rooms have secondary, another source of light. So some of the windows, and again, some of the areas are kind of in, trying to explain it, just in terms of, you know, isolated windows, which are almost set either under balconies or in isolated corners, various things like that. So there's, there's a lot of windows surrounding the development, which has been tested, but some of them, again, have other sources of light and also are bedroom windows rather than main habitable rooms and things like that. So overall, the daylight and sunlight report has concluded that for the majority of the windows, the level of daylight and sunlight is acceptable. Okay, thank you. Councillor Apps. Yeah, I'd like, Councillor Apps, I'd like to ask a question to Councillor Ambash, if I may. So, I am allowed to, right? We, we obviously heard your concerns loud and clear. I have to say, I have to put it in balance with when I look at these proposals, when I look at proposals regularly here, there is often, not all windows meet, say that, you know, not all planning meets all of the kind of daylight or other grounds. And we have to put that in balance. What, so obviously I'm weighing that up, but what is the aspect that most concerns you overall about this development? Apologies for not giving an opportunity to question for those who should have said that. I think the thing that most concerns the residents is the thing that most concerns me. It's about the scale of the development. It's about, we have three sides with the open space in the middle. A lot of people sit in the open space. Young people, but also elderly people too, who don't want to go far from their house. We're closing off, is it the north side or the south side chair? I sometimes get the line of Haywood Gardens. So, it's the words I started with on the massing. The size of that fourth thing, it's going from six stories down to five. And the report says, I don't understand all the technicalities. It's more acceptable. Five is obviously a bit lower, but the sixth floor with modern standards means the whole building is higher and kind of overlooking people. So, I've kind of talked to individuals who've said, I'm worried. I'll look out of my window and the people on the new side will look straight into my window. I won't be able to go and sit out in the green space. The playground is being moved. That has some pluses and minuses. But some children may have to go a bit further to a much better playground. So, there are some benefits in terms of the playground, but it's not going to be quite so local. But it's the massing overall that's the most concerning issue. Thank you, Councillor Lambert. I'm sorry, go back to any comments, questions. I do beg your pardon. I didn't allow time. But if anyone wants to ask questions of either of the councillors, then let's take those first before going on to the technical planning questions. Councillor Govindia. Thank you. Both councillors, Sutters and Amber, are eloquent in representing their local residence views. The question I have for both of them, and it's certainly the local Member of Parliament's views also recorded in here, that given how strongly you feel, and given how strongly local residents feel, and given how strongly the local Member of Parliament feels, what have you done to ensure that the applicant and the appropriate Cabinet member has adequately heard and reflected those views in revising the scheme? I've spoken to him extensively, tried to argue our points, told him how residents feel. He has been up to Ashburton. He won't tell us the dates on when he's coming, so we miss those meetings. But I have sought Councillor Dickendam out deliberately, because I am not afraid to face people one-to-one on something as important as this to my residence. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Councillor Ambash. I too have had informal meetings, both with Councillor Dickendam and the Leader of the Council, and one of them with the Member of Parliament, to explain the depth of feeling about the consultation. And one of the problems was that the first consultation got off on a really bad start. And so I understand people were a bit sceptical. They got the invitation to come to the consultation in Granagh School the week after the consultation had happened, because there was a postage delivery problem. I've been at all the consultations, and I've encouraged Councillor Dickendam to come to the consultations, and I think he's been to two of the three consultations, if not all three. Mr Chair, can I answer that? Yes, but I think just to say, I'm not absolutely certain of this, but I think that Councillor Dickendam would say he'd been to all three. I mean, I think, but go on. It's a bit difficult if we're asked the question straight out. We have to give a straight answer. So I'm sorry, I owe him no disrespect, and I think he really does believe in the schemes. But by the time that first consultation was held, the building footprints were set. That's my point. It was never a real consultation, and we've managed to make no headway since. I think there's no doubt that everyone understands, as I said before, it's a very attractive estate. There's no doubt everyone understands the strength of feeling about it, particularly those locally. We're trying to look at it from a planning point of view, and given the advice we've got. So just remember that. Any questions from members? Councillor Gold... Sorry, have we finished with the... Thank you. Councillor Goldley. Thank you, Chair. Just based on the informatives that we had for the last application, I'm just asking whether we... It's appropriate to have the same ones for this application, if it is approved as well. And also, as an informative, mentioned especially in Councillor Ambash's written statement about the community centre. If we could maybe also be an informative to encourage the council to really look at that central area, and if there are more opportunities to sort of develop the centre community space there, if they are to do so. So you are... I'm not sure I heard all of that, but you're asking for the informatives about building construction plans, those kind of informatives, apply to this application as well? Yes. I'm sure that's true. Is it not? Yeah, yeah. What... If we take it as red, that those informatives will be on all three, we're all three to get consent tonight. Okay. And... And then also, specifically with this one, there was... I was saying how the community centre was maybe not in such an appropriate place. And while we are going ahead with the community centre in that place, if also the central areas, I think it was Tildesley, and if... And so the informative to encourage the applicant to sort of keep an eye on that area, and if there are more opportunities to develop the centre community in that area, then I think that would be really appreciated by the residents. I think... I wonder whether anyone from the department can confirm this. The applicants have been trying to consider whether the community centres should be anywhere near what the so-called shopping area. Have they not? But there are problems with it. Is that right? That's correct, in terms of the leases. So there are long leases on the shops. So in terms of also just from a planning point of view, it's not within the red line site, so it's not something we could put an informative on, but it is something that the applicant is aware of and, you know, again, looking into. But we can't secure it under this application. So hopefully this might be room for movement. Councillor APPS. Thank you. I've got a couple of questions. One relates to the trees and landscaping. So obviously it's regrettable that some of the trees would need to be removed. But there are a number of trees being transported and relocated. What steps are being taken to make sure that those trees are safeguarded? What measures are taken to make sure that during construction the trees aren't damaged or damaged in the future? And just on the issue of storage at Hayward Gardens as well, I wanted to ask about what the visual differences of the storage, and I can't actually visualise it. I can remember the garages at Innist Gardens, but I can visualise those, but I can't visualise. So if you've got any, if there's any kind of pictures or anything that would be useful or if you could describe it. I'm just very conscious that in a development in my own ward in Gideon Road, there were some garages that were used for storage. They were sort of undersized for full cars. So they were primarily used for storage. And I guess you get used to things, so they're just always part of the visual landscape. But they actually looked a bit ropey, to be honest. And now that they've been replaced with smaller storage units, which are considerably smaller, I have to say, so it's a compromise for residents, but that it's a better look in the estate. And I wondered if there might be a way that there could be some new storage introduced, which would be a help, but also that we could make sure that was in keeping with the overall design as well, if that's possible. But I know that can't be a, I know it probably can't be a planning requirement, but I'd be interested to know if housing had looked at that at all. Any comment? Sorry, I was just going to have a street view up. Just in terms of the trees and landscaping, there is a Category B tree going, and also some Category C and yew trees that are going. However, in terms of replacement, we are, you know, we've got 13 trees planted at HG1, and then another 11 at HG2. And in terms of looking at all three sites together, we would be looking at 69 trees being planted. And then in terms of the conditions, there would be, there is conditions on kind of tree protection and landscaping details as well. Okay, thank you. Councillor White. Hi. Just a couple of questions. One around the design review panel again. And I wonder if anyone could comment on the second point, the sustainability section, about passive house principles. These homes are already reaching quite high standards, but the design review panel has said that could we reach a higher standard. And also around active travel, the same point really. Can we improve on what we've got? Just in terms of the design review panel, obviously that was undertaken in 2023. So there was a, you know, a period of time where the plans evolved and things moved on in terms of sustainability, and we got more information about that. So again, in terms of our policy, we require either passive house or home quality mark. So this scheme is achieving home quality mark, which is in accordance with our policy requirements, and also in terms of carbon emissions, very sustainable as well in terms of I think it's either 70% or 71% carbon reduction. So these are good energy efficient buildings. In terms of active travel, there's obviously going to be cycle storage. There will be travel plans as well. And in terms of some of the other measures, I think we have under the unilateral undertaking, again, some additional things. So car club, so memberships to car clubs and things like that. Sorry, around car clubs, is there car parking for the car clubs on the estate? Not on the estate, no. No, and I think that has been investigated, but it's quite difficult to do that on council estates, as far as I'm aware. And also, can I ask one more question? Especially if you remember that people want to hear. Sorry, yeah. Okay. In other words, speak up just a bit or microphone nearer you, one or the other. It's the first time anyone's said that to me, actually. On the fire safety as well, about the sprinklers. Are they in the homes or in the communal areas, sprinklers? I'd have to check the fire report. I assume both, but the fire statement would have been reviewed by an independent third party, so it will meet all the relevant fire safety regulations. But I'd have to confirm in terms of where they are, but I'll have a look. Okay. Can I just, as a matter of interest, point out that Fleur Anderson MP, who's been quoted quite a bit this evening, one way or another, also said, and I want, I'm in the negative, the Curls is of concern she certainly comments on, but she also says she welcomes the council's effort to support the delivery of more homes for local people and know many families who want to live in these new flats. And that the plans for the Ashburton estate started under the previous administration here and have been revised under the current administration. That's obviously an indication of the expectations of government in terms of what we need to provide for housing in the borough. So this is not being done for fun, but because we recognise a desperate need for affordable housing in the borough. We want to make sure that this very nice estate is kept as very nice as possible and that these applications are as good as possible. And I, again, was, as I said earlier, the review panel and everyone there thought it was very good. Councillor Humphreys. Thank you, Chair. Just a little correction there. With all respect to our MP in Putney, she's actually incorrect on that, this particular scheme. Sorry, I just didn't hear what you said. Does that mean...? I said, just as a matter of fact, it's not correct, the assumption from the MP that this scheme was originated under the previous administration. Just as a matter of fact, rather than... Oh. All right. OK. OK. But anyway, that's more than what I was actually going to say. I do hope, and I'm sure they are, and it would be very surprising if they weren't, that the cabinet member and the director of housing are listening to this debate tonight. Because I think it's... This is the council's... Another council's own application. And I think it's evident from what we've heard tonight, particularly, and from the residents, that the deeply flawed nature of the consultation and the whole approach to this from the beginning, we all understand there's a need for housing. And I think all the residents have said themselves they're not numerous and they understand there's a need for housing. But if there was only some attempt at bringing the residents on board earlier, I hope these lessons are being learnt by those people listening to make sure that when further applications come forward, they'll bring more consultation with the residents, in the right time, earlier in the process, to make sure that a scheme could be brought forward, which may have, in fact, the support of the residents, which is not what we're clearly seeing tonight. And it's just as important for us to look after our existing residents as any future residents that might come forward in the process. Was that Councillor Justin putting his hand up as well? No? OK. I did actually have a question, which I haven't asked yet, if you may be so bold. What was the question? We were talking earlier, again, quite often at length, about the DRP. And it's interesting. In recent times, we've had a lot more direct quotes and a lot more reference to the DRPs and details of what the reports actually said, which is welcome. I'm not criticising that at all. I think it's really helpful to see what the DRP has said in more depth than we've had in the past. I think that's a forward step. But what would be nice to see in this report and in other reports coming towards us is a specific section in that after the reflection of what the DRP said on any changes that have been made as a result of what the DRP has said. Because at the moment we have to rummage all the way through it and try and find out there's a bit there and there's a bit there. And just as a point for next time, it would be really helpful to have a little summary of and the resulting changes were X, Y and Z. Just one moment. Just one moment. It's not an actual requirement but it's something we've taken on board. The government said you ought to do this. Right. I just wanted to explain for people in the public gallery who must be wondering what on earth a DRP is. The DRP is design review panel which the previous government, and I congratulate them on it, the previous government suggested local authorities should introduce. Not has to but should introduce. And I think Wandsworth, again credit to our predecessors, was one of the first authorities to introduce it on a regular basis. And the DRP is a selection of professionals, by which I mean architects, town planners, surveyors perhaps, surveyors, landscape architects. I've been to one or two and listened to them, certainly ecologists, people who know an awful lot about horticulture and about animals and birds and reptiles and all sorts of things. This advises the council on what these applications are like. So just to give a flavour of what a DRP might be. Does that, yep, okay. Okay. Any other questions? Councillor Gavinder. I've got three different areas, but just on the transport issue. Car clubs was mentioned. I mean, is it the idea that only new residents would have access to car clubs? Oh, I don't know. Or would the old residents also benefit from the largesse of car club membership? Secondly, there's a reference about emergency vehicles. And I think the local residents have always expressed concern that there are narrow roads in and around the estate. Emergency vehicles have difficulties because of parked cars and so on. And in fact, life would be made difficult for them. Now, is that issue been addressed adequately? And do we have comments from the emergency vehicle people, you know, the blue light people, saying they are happy with access into and out of the estate? Chairman, can I come back after Mr Titley's answer? There's about a couple of other things. Mr Titley, presumably the car clubs are just ordinary commercial car clubs. Anyone can join anywhere. This is about us encouraging them in this particular area. Is that right? There are a couple of issues here. The first is that the new residents that move in would be presented with offers to encourage them to join a car club. But at the same time, anybody who lives locally may also, of course, wish to be encouraged to join the car club. And colleagues are also considering, through the access for all scheme, to introduce discounts and offers that would also make that more attractive as well. In terms of the emergency arrangements or the access arrangements, as far as I'm aware, the roads around the sites would remain very much as they currently are. And therefore, you know, there's no immediate or obvious identified need for any particular improvements. But a highway authorities task on a day-to-day basis is to consider assessments of highway safety and whether there's any additional need for single yellow lines here or double yellow lines there is a day-to-day task that we will clearly always be prepared to make. So, in paragraph 13.5, it sort of says that only five of the units would comply with the external immunity standards. I mean, it's quite a significant number of units that will not comply. I mean, the space standards in the paragraph on standards of accommodation is sort of saying it's not good enough, but we can live with it or they can live with it, of course. I mean, it's quite a poor standard of accommodation that is being offered here. And whether that is a feature of the design or the feature of cramming too many flats here, I don't know. But perhaps somebody could explain whether those space standards could have been better met by reducing the number of units. Ms. Maloney? Just in terms of the standards, the previous local plan required five square metres. When these discussions and pre-app discussions were taking place, that was the requirement at the time. So, the design was evolving around those standards. When the new local plan came in, in 2023, that increased the standards to 10 square metres. Now, on flatter developments, these often become at 10 square metres very oversized, overly large, and results in issues in terms of the flats below. It restricts light into those properties. It also has implications on the design. It can look very bulky, heavy. And also, in terms of the London plan, their requirement is actually five square metres with one square metre additional floor space for every additional occupant. So, we have, you know, acknowledged in the report that some of these do not meet the standards. However, given the amount of communal space across the estate and all the various improvements to the place space, that, on balance, it is acceptable. Any other questions? Councillor Coakley. Thank you, Chair. So, I saw in this particular application that there was a 10 per cent reduction in the biodiversity, and part of the justification for that was because of the offset gain in the others, because I noticed there was a gain in the previous application as well as the Cortis Road application. I was wondering if the officers had any statistics of, on balance, how much, you know, is there a sort of environmental improvement of the area from the free applications in terms of urban green and biodiversity? Because I feel like that's more useful to get, like, a better picture of it. Ms Molloy, I was intrigued by the accuracy of these statistics too. I wonder how many butterflies or newts or whatever have been counted everywhere, but can you give us some detail on that? Just in terms of the biodiversity net gain, when these applications came in, it wasn't compulsory or a requirement. However, the applicant has undertaken that, and they have also done the urban greening factor, which is a requirement of our local plan and also the London plan. So, in terms of the urban greening factor, that will increase from 0.43 to 8.3, so there will be an increase of that. And also, there will be a BNG. Sorry. Just got one. Is this for the specific application or for all three? My question was more all three, because I know this one has a biodiversity net loss of 10%, and they said, like, it was more than offset because of the gains elsewhere. So I was wondering what the overall gain was from the applications together? Well, there will be an increase in overall kind of soft landscaping, so there will be 58 square metres additional landscaping. Often with the biodiversity net gain, when you remove a tree, that is what kind of almost reduces it, and it is quite difficult to bring that up. But the applicant has worked with our ecologist and our parks team to really get the value back into these sites in terms of the type of planting, green roofs, various ecological enhancements, and that will all be secured by condition. So it has been quite a piece of work done on that. And in terms of the Hayward Gardens in particular, the ratio of tree planting is one to four. So there is going to be quite a lot of additional landscaping across the estate generally. Thank you. Thank you. I'm going to take the vote on the recommendations in a moment, but Councillor Humphreys, last. I appreciate it, Chair. Thank you. It is a separate point entirely, but on this particular application out of the three, this is obviously a very close neighbour of Arc Academy, just over the road on the other side of the way. And I wondered if, is there any scope in this application to do some work collaboratively with the school? So whether that's in the nature of, and it doesn't explicitly say, but perhaps something we could add in. So they're going to actually work with the school, there might be opportunities for work experience for the children in the school over there. And also, there's a school street which is in operation at the school, and that will have an impact on deliveries and such like at times of the day. And I wonder that's been taken into account by Mr. Tilly when we're looking at the transport strategy on this one. So there are implications on this particular one that aren't on the other ones that are relevant, that haven't been bottomed out in the report. It's also the case, which surprises me somewhat, that talking about all the qualities of the estate, the fact that it's across the road from one of the largest areas of open space and the borough, which might mean the quality, the amount of open space in individual facts is perhaps less contentious than it might be in other places in the borough. Not mentioned, nor mentioned the fact that we can all see it 10 times in the next month or two in Love Actually continually being played on the TV. Any comment about that, Ms. Malloy, or perhaps that's? Just in terms of, again, just going back to the new engagement and community engagement officers that have been appointed, and I know they're doing quite a lot of work locally within the estate, and my understanding is they are going to be talking to local schools. Okay, thank you. Let's take the recommendations. Those in favour of the application, as it stands? With the informatives, as I already agreed. Those against? Four. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor Sutters Ambash. Can we move on to the next one, which is back to, I think, Councillor Austin on... The decision, sorry. Sorry, the decision was approved by... The recommendation was approved by six votes to four. Okay. I beg your pardon if that wasn't clear, but Councillor Austin, we're on to the next one. Court is road. Colleagues, like the proverbial pad, Penny, I'm back. I'd like to thank the chair once again for his indulgence. Last night, the leader tabled a motion about compassionate Christmas, and it is certainly not a compassionate or merry Christmas for the residents of the Ashburton estate this year. My residents, they understand that we need to provide more social and affordable homes. We need family homes. There are no family homes in this application. Not one. The argument put forward is that building one- and two-bedroom flats will allow those who want smaller homes to downsize into, thereby freeing up larger homes for families in need. To answer Councillor Aps's point, there are only 20 people in West Putney, according to the Council's own stats, who are looking to downsize currently. The biggest single housing issue in Wandsworth for those in social housing is overcrowding, though we can probably add being ignored to that as of this evening. I work in housing. I find this approach so frustrating because, with a bit of care and thought, we could have given families with two and three children a wonderful new home to call their own. Instead, the Administration is playing a numbers game of rack'em and stack'em. I don't care what they are, just get us over the Thousand Homes line. I know this is novel for the Labour Party to want to keep their election promises, just ask any farmer or business owner recently, but this obsession with the thousand unit number is doing real harm to local residents. Courtis Road is further away from any public transport, as it suffers from the worst connectivity of all the sites in the Ashburton development scheme. The traffic survey, having given a p-towel which barely scrapes the rating of 2, just, and sits on the cusp of 1B. Residents in Innist Gardens and Hayward Gardens can at least cut through to Putney Heath more easily. And at the risk of repeating myself, conducting traffic surveys in school holidays, where there is a primary directly opposite and the results were woefully inadequate and do not conform to the Lambeth method. Just to give context to this from the previous application, The surveys took place the week before the half term, six and five days from the start of the half term period, ergo within the seven day buffer period. It does not conform to the Lambeth method. The new residents of this building will be heavily reliant on cars, as it is the most inaccessible of all the sites, and again, over 50% of parking is not CPZ controlled. A thriving, wonderful primary school is within 200 metres of the site. Having a long period of construction work outside the classroom is going to cause huge disruption to the children and their learning environment. The dust and emissions from construction and traffic and building work will mean the air quality in the area will stop classroom windows being opened and could cause the playground to be a no-go area altogether. The noise from construction will have a detrimental effect on the learning environment of the children's mental health. Cortis Road is narrow, with cars parked down one side, and it is heavily used, adding a large number of construction vehicles into this environment. Next to the school is just an accident waiting to happen. To me, substantial private outside space is non-negotiable, and this application does not even come close. As someone who lived through COVID in a property without outside space, I know what it is like. Upgrading a playground next door and expanding another playground, while commendable, is not good compensation when you are only allowed out one hour a day and you are not allowed to be near anyone else. None of these sites meet those standards, and it is simply unacceptable. The report says that all the trees on the site will be retained. Trees T4 to T9 are in such close proximity to the construction site. Roots will protrude into the construction area. The tree canopy is going to cause issues making crane work impossible on site. The stress put on the trees' reduction in nutrient availability, water drainage, root damage and soil compaction will ultimately result in these trees dying and needing to be removed. If this is the best the Council can do, having spent over a third of a million pounds in fees, then it isn't a good reflection on the applicant, who happens to also be the Council. I would urge you to save your colleagues from making a terrible mistake and vote against this application. APPLAUSE Four minutes, 47 seconds. Excellent on timing. A little bit unfair, I think, on the approach. I might ask you questions like exactly what kind of housing you do work in, but that's a different matter. Any questions for the Councillor? Councillor Govindia, sorry. Thank you. Councillor Austin, you mentioned the local primary school and the disturbance during construction period. The paper talks about a construction logistics plan. Are you aware whether the applicant has engaged with the school in devising that logistics plan? And if not, do you think it should? Sorry, I didn't know if Councillor Apps wanted to say something first. No, I don't think so. I mean, not for Councillor Apps to refine Councillor Govindia's question. The question was directed at you, Councillor Austin. I have reached out to the head teacher at Granada Primary. I haven't had a direct answer as to whether they have been engaged, but yes, they should at least definitely be engaged. It's a matter of interest, Councillor Austin, seeing you mentioned Granada School. Many schools in the borough are having a slight problem, to put it mildly, with school roles because of the falling age of primary school population. Is Granada by any chance? I don't have the specific data for Granada, but I know in West Putney that there is currently about a 20% vacancy rate. So there is a vacancy rate. So in that sense at least, refreshing our schools with new young blood, these developments might be very helpful. So there is a positive side. Councillor Apps, do you want to ask a question? Well, it was more a point of clarification, actually, which is the resident I spoke to who wanted to downsize had actually tried to downsize several years before through the council and had actually given up. And I was encouraging her to renew her application. And I imagine there's quite a few other people, you know, who maybe could be thinking about it, maybe have had a bad experience in the past. This was several years before, by the way. And, you know, they give up putting their lives on hold and they want to move forward. And if they see the new housing, then that becomes an opportunity. But the other thing I'll just say is it's about the mix of housing for me overall. You know, it's, yes, we do need new family homes, but we also need really good quality housing for single people as well. So I wondered if you could reflect on that. As I said earlier, when it gets to, and I slightly guilty myself of getting into technical questions, which if you want to ask that question, ask it to the officers, I think. Any other questions specifically of Councillor Austin? No? Ms Molloy, you want to present? Keeping you busy this evening. Okay, I wasn't... Just one moment. Cathy, don't rush. We've got to... Chris has gone to take somebody out. So you... Callum's going to help you with the chair in. Have we got a break for a moment? No. In that case, go on, carry on. Carry on, Ms Molloy. There we are. She can't, because... Oh, right. Ah. Go on, carry on. Right. Thank you. Thank you. Just... This is Cortis Road. So item... Item nine. So in terms of the... Oh, it's gone. Yeah. Sorry. That's it. Yeah. So in terms of the two sites, so this area here is where the new building is proposed. And just in terms of the unit mix, it's six two-bed units and one one-bed units. And then the existing playground here would be increased in size and upgraded. Just a quick overview of the kind of layouts and the kind of scale and then also the ground floor there. So we've got a unit on the ground floor and some ancillary items such as, again, bike and bin stores. So in terms of height, we've got five storeys and then it drops down to three storeys. And the reason for that was in terms of daylight and sunlight analysis, which was showing up that it would just be too imposing on some of the local residents. And again, just some idea of some additional landscaping. So these are the cedar trees over here, which Councillor Austin was referring to. And they have been looked at with our arboriculturists. And also there's various conditions on about tree protection measures. And again, given that it is a council-owned development, we've got, you know, control over these trees. They will need to be pruned. But again, in terms of the windows on that elevation facing the trees, again, they're secondary windows. So they'll have additional light from other sources. So the pressure to prune we don't think is going to be too much of a concern. And then we've got over here the number six, which is where the new playground will be. So again, that's going to be increased in size and also upgraded. And then again, the central playground in the middle of the estate. Thank you, Mr. Lloyd. I would have said personally that most of the issues in general have been covered one way or another this evening. But I don't want to close down completely. Any comments, questions people want to ask specifically Councillor Givindia, Councillor Owens? Councillor Humphries? A question about the kind of overall child yield. I mean, I think Councillor Belton mentioned, in a sense, ability to refresh Granada's falling school role. What's the child yield projected over the three developments here? And my second question in the area of that is, what is the local lettings plan for the Ashburton? And what does it indicate by way of how many families are waiting to downsize and how many families are overcrowded and wanting to live in something more spacious? I think, I'm sorry. I think that's a question for the Housing Committee. Very, you asked, you asked, sorry, Councillor Givindia. You've asked that in a very broad sense. I was once told one of the earlier committees on this council that it's all very well, Tony. That's my first name, for those who may not know. It's all very well, Tony. You cheered it all right. But it's a bit of a Givindia Belton show. And that's what it was. And I've been trying to avoid that for years. You raised, Councillor Austin raised Granada School. I raised Granada School. You raised Granada School back at me. We all know that Granada School was a red herring. Now, actually, actually, no, let me finish. Let me finish. By all means, pursue all the statistics in the borough about the number of single units and double units. All you're doing is trying to prove that my argument to Councillor Austin, rather in fun, about the school roles may or may not be accurate. Well, I understand that. Accept it. I withdraw that remark. Councillor Miss Milloy cannot possibly answer all the details of housing. Would you care to keep it to something simple rather than broadening it as far as you want? I have to say, Chum, child yield is something that planners often talk about. And therefore, I just thought that the children child yield would have been something that would have been considered. And then you went on to say, and what are the statistics about that, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. No, no. And since we have somebody from the housing department who did talk about the local lettings plan, so I just wondered if she had information at hand about what Ashburton's local lettings plan was. I think that was answered earlier, in a sense, but do you have anything to add? No, just to reiterate, really, that there will be a local lettings plan in place. I do not have any information beyond that right now. These matters are actually decided through the housing committee, because they are quite detailed housing policy matters. So, yes, I cannot really add more than that. So, who else had? Was that the Councillor Owens? Well, the yield is huge, but there is no idea now. Sorry, I do not have the yield, but I have the number of bedrooms overall on the three sites. So, it is 26 one-beds, 33 two-beds, 18 three-beds and two four-bed units. So, I do not know the child yield on that, but there is obviously generating a child yield, which then links into the play space, and those provisions are met. Councillor Owens. Thank you. Sorry, I am going to bring up Granard School. It was just a couple of questions to follow up from Councillor Austin on the impact, but also, they appear to have a school street on Courtess Terrace, which is right beside Courtess Road. Now, I was wondering, obviously, you have been doing some work with them, how that will be impacted, as well as to the general impact of, obviously, all the disturbance. Thank you. Mr. Tidley. Sorry, Mr. Tidley. Yes, thank you. Thank you, Chair. Well, we have spoken quite a bit tonight about construction management plans, and this development, like the others, would be subject to a satisfactory construction management plan. It is very common. In fact, it is a normal requirement that construction traffic, particularly larger construction traffic, does not enter or access the area during school arrival and drop-off times. That is just a standard requirement of most construction management plans. The other two main requirements I always look at is that there is always a contact detail, so any residents or the community around any site can easily access information. And the third bit is to ensure that there is something in there about maintaining safety of cyclists, because construction traffic and cyclists generally don't mix. So those are the sort of three areas. The school street would almost certainly just continue to operate as it currently does. And, as I said, when the plan comes in, we will check against all those requirements. Thanks. Can I suggest we go to the vote? I mean, I think we all know of the position generally. Okay. No-one is objecting. Those in favour of this application? Those against? 6-4. That application is passed. Now, that concludes the Ashburton sites. There's one in Ackroydon, which I think should be possibly less contentious. And then perhaps a very quick break after that. So, if we can turn to item 10, which is on page 337, and is an application... 337 is... For those in the public gallery or listening, 300 is an application for six-storey building with... I can't remember exactly. Was it eight? I can't remember the number of units. Um... It's six. It's only five. Five units. Five units. So, Ms Malloy, your turn again, I think? Ms Richards. Oh, sorry. Ms Richards, I beg yours. Ellen, can you introduce yourself? Thank you, Councillor. My name is Ellen Richards. I'm the team leader for the West Area. Um, as you've just summarised, uh, this is another application by the Council for five, uh, one-bed units, um, on a site in Ackroydon Estate. All of them will be social rent. I think you might say it gives the corner an icon. Yeah, there's a gap at the moment. Yeah, it is good. I'm looking for a word. It should, it should have a dome or a tower on top of it as a... As a presence. Presence, that's right. Um, any, any comments on it? Councillor Levinder? Um, I have a question about, um, um, how many dual aspects. I'm reading through the standards, uh, paragraphs. It looks like, um, uh, not many. And it was, uh, some of the BRE guidelines not being possible. And I think it's kind of dismissed at saying some of the rooms are not, uh, does it say? Uh, they're not, uh, none of the habitable room window in the development face, uh, within 90 degrees due south. I mean, it almost suggests that the site is inappropriate. I mean, does that, is that not the case? I mean, it says the exception to this is a living room kitchen area of the proposed first offload which should receive daylight below the BRE recommendation in the summer months. Which is exactly when you want sunlight coming in your house in the summer months. I mean, this just seems to be quite a, a tight fit in an ill-placed space. And presumably, it's ill space. It's not been built in because the original planners thought this is not the place to put anything. Um, I mean, it is a corner site. It is an infill location. Um, it is going to be hard up against some kitchen windows. Um, and again, we've talked about the impact of windows and how we have to sort of gauge the impact on those windows based on what they're used for, whether or not they're, uh, primary or secondary sources of light and so on. In this case, the, the, the block and all of the floors, all of the flats will be dual aspect. Um, uh, there are some windows, kitchen windows to the neighboring blocks that would be affected. Um, but again, it's a balance really of what extent, um, of impact that would be. Um, in the round, these are good. This is, these will provide good standard of accommodation. The kitchen window is not just kitchen. It's kitchen and living room. In the report, it says kitchen, living room stroke, kitchen area. Sorry. Can you direct me to where you're actually. Could we perhaps use the microphones though? Page three, four, one, you say. Thank you, Councillor. Again, it's, it's an assessment of what has been submitted by the applicants in terms of the internal lighting standards for the proposed units. Um, there are standards for what would, what those should be in terms. And I think it's talking about, um, lux standards and so on. And again, it's, it's a balance about how much internal lighting each of those rooms, depending on their use and so on, um, whether or not they still, they offer, uh, uh, adequate standard of accommodation, which is the case here. The dual aspect. There's a large balcony area, um, that brings in light as well from double doors. I don't think you could look at these and consider them to be, um, substandard, uh, residential accommodation. I'm sorry to pursue this. I mean, you know, if it is not relevant, then why do we say in a report, that it is below standard? If the standard doesn't matter, why do we have standards? I mean, I appreciate that the conclusion would be that on balance it is still okay. I'm not challenging that bit of it. I'm just challenging whether this is a showstopper. What you're saying is, it's not. And the words here indicate that this would be a very poor flat. But we are okay with it. Because we're going not to live in it. Okay. Councillor Sayers. Can I point out that these flats have the benefit of the luxury of bathrooms with the window. So you have natural light and natural ventilation. When you're having a shower and water. Plus a beautiful balcony. Plus a beautiful balcony, as my neighbour has just said. Some people have baths as well and a nice natural light. Okay. We've got our views on natural light and dual aspect rooms, et cetera, et cetera. Councillor Humphries. Thank you, Chair. Again, it's something I've said before. And it's something I'll continue to say. And it's something I continue to find disappointing. That when it's a council's own application, we don't hit all the standards. Whatever standard that might be. You know, it's an area that said it's suitable for five storey buildings in our own LP4 policy. This is six storeys. You know, the standards aren't quite as good as they should be. But it's okay. It's adequate. And it's just, it's very frustrating for us as planning members who want to seize the best of the borough, that we're getting applications. Inevitably, there has to be a compromise to try and fit these things in. But if it's compromised so much, it's disappointing that when we as a committee have to challenge any applicant across the borough, whether it's a private developer or the council's own, if we ourselves don't meet the standards that we set, it makes it very difficult to enforce it against anybody else. I take this very hard when we're putting one storey on, part five storeys, which is for public housing, when you and your colleagues approved, I can't remember, is it a 20 storey block in my ward, where the standard was, I've just been asking, I've just been asking Mr. Calder, where he thinks it may have been eight or 10. So to talk to me about one, when you imposed on my ward, which really needs open space, 20 odd storeys. I find it very hard to take this one storey provided for people on the waiting list or wherever it is, in an area where we need housing. Councillor Apps, Councillor Colgley. Councillor Apps, Councillor Colgley. Yeah, so I'd just like to reiterate that view as well, which is that this is a scheme which is ambitious for getting really good quality homes in place. Please don't interrupt me. Okay, come on boys and girls, let's try and behave like adults. Come on, Councillor Apps, carry on. Councillor Colgley, let's stop these two. Okay, so yeah, so it is important that it's really good to see a council being ambitious for building new affordable homes, and that is what's driving this application. We often have to look at on balance, and this is another application we have to take on balance. Can I also draw attention to the biodiversity? I'm really pleased to see that this element of the design has been improved, and I hope you'll be consulting with residents to see if we can see further improvement in biodiversity across the estate, and also looking at other improvements that residents would want to see as part of the development. Thank you. Councillor Colgley. Councillor Apps did partly capture the point I was going to make. It's just that it is a decision on balance, and I feel like this one is worthy of approval because of the benefits it brings. And I don't really take the argument of setting a good precedent. If private developers want to build 100% social housing, then I'm sure we could have a... I'm sure the planning colleagues would have a conversation with them about the interior spaces. Like, it's a bit of a moot point, really. It's different things. It's different priorities. We're trying to prioritise social housing, and so they're trade-offs, but on balance it's still worth it. The recommendation is to approve. Is it agreed? Votes? Those in favour? Second. And those against? Four. Right. Sorry? I beg your pardon. Yes, that application, the Ackroydon Estate was approved by six votes to four. We will have a five-minute break, and I do mean strictly five minutes, before starting again. Thank you. Thank you. But don't worry. Chris, are we ready to go? Okay. We'll resume. And that leaves Councillor Justin May, or may not get in time. I've got a few seconds or so. I've had a request, which I'm happy to acknowledge, and just for the committee to know, that we've had some people in the public gallery for application number two, which is Battersea Square, and also for application number 11, which is a public house so-called, so-called 160, 162 Putney High Street, where we've also got a Councillor who wants to speak as well, and so I'm hanging it out for Councillor Justin. Can I take that one first? Well, I'm going to take that one first, if that's okay. So, so it's Battersea Square, which is application number two, I beg your pardon, as I'm scrabbling around this as everyone else, which is on page 63. Now, I'm not sure we need an introduction to, or do we, we do need an introduction, sorry. I'm confusing my two. Mr Granger. Mr Granger. Mr Granger. Thank you, Chair. Nigel Granger, East Area Team Manager in Development Management. This, hopefully, is the latest and hopefully the last application you'll see at the Royal Academy of Dance. If you look at the planning history, there have been several attempts over the years when the Royal Academy moved to York Road, starting off with a residential scheme with a large roof extension over the granary building, and then two other applications that were linked to Thomas' school for education uses. This, effectively, is the least invasive application of all of these, in terms of, it's mainly for the change of use of the existing buildings, with the introduction of air handling equipment and refurbishment, mainly of the granary building, in terms of a lot of secondary glazing and refurbishment of the existing warehouse-style windows, and other improvements to the overall sustainability credentials of the granary building as the main heritage asset with the most significance on the site. Obviously, the Fontaine building is a more modern addition to the overall suite of buildings within the parcel of land. So, the idea is to change the use, to provide some flexible uses, incorporating class E and F uses. E are generally more, sort of, commercial uses that you may see on a high street, and F uses are more community-focused uses. So, there's a blend of these uses, with the introduction of some pure office space on the upper floors, but that has been sequentially tested, in terms of respecting or being required to examine the town centre first approach. But, in all, the units have, sorry, the uses have been proven to be acceptable in policy terms, along with the other interventions to the building, and the proposals recommended for approval, subject to conditions and a Section 1 and 6 planning obligation. Right. Now, I was perfectly happy with this when I read it through. Councillor CALD, please, and Councillor Humphreys. Thank you, Chair. I took a lot of interest in this one, because it was in my ward. I really like the design and the layout. I think it looks lovely. It looks like the main concern, when it comes to residents, were specifically residents of Eton House, in which the, because the development backs out on it, they're worried about the increase in noise. It says in the application that an acoustic survey has taken place to make sure that there's not going to be excess noise, and it didn't say in details, like, where the acoustic survey was taken. So, could I get some confirmation that this acoustic survey included Eton House, and we're making sure that the development won't negatively impact them with noise too much? Mr. Granger? Yes, certainly. The noise impact statement, so the initial survey to inform the actual specification and how the future performance of the air handling equipment and all the other equipment would work. There's air source heat pumps up there as well. It's taken over several points around the site, and these microphones are basically placed in front of what are known as sensitive receptors. So, these are all, they're peppered all over the site because obviously sound permeates from this equipment, but certainly Eton House was included in that survey. During the course of this application, for two reasons, the air handling equipment and how it was arranged, a lot of it was arranged on the roof of the granary building and a lower level of the granary building. There's some towards Ship House and then a lower level towards the Fontaine building. In two aspects, the impact of the air handling equipment, a lot of it was quite prominent on the front elevation of the granary building as you walk into the courtyard. We didn't think that that, in conservation and heritage terms, was necessarily the most optimum way to actually preserve the significance of the granary building. And also, some of the equipment was closer to Eton House. So, as we looked at this in terms of the noise impacts and the heritage impacts of this proposal, a lot of that equipment was moved to the east-facing elevation, along the parapets that faces out towards Thomas' school. So, a lot of that equipment has actually been moved further away from Eton House, and there are benefits in that regard in terms of reducing the impacts, having a much more clean and unfettered elevation of the granary building, and moving away those potential noise, impactful noise-generating equipment away from sensitive receptors like Eton House. So, our in-house environmental health noise specialist has assessed all of this, was involved with the negotiations, has obviously looked at the baseline information in terms of the ambient noise levels noise levels and the background noise levels in the location, and is satisfied that the new location of this equipment would perform adequately. But he did notice that there's a drop-off after 11 o'clock at night where everything calms down, and there could be impact from the equipment if it were allowed to continue running. So, you'll see there's a condition recommended for the equipment not to operate between 11pm, and it can start up again at 7am in the morning in order to make sure that it doesn't have any adverse effects. Brilliant. Thanks. That covers pretty much everything I was worried about. Thank you. Thank you. Councillor Humphreys? Thank you. Just quickly on the noise thing. Thank you to Councillor Coulter for raising that one. But I understood from the comments in the comment section that it was also not just about the plant and the equipment, but also there were concerns slightly about the first floor event space, and obviously that's people coming in and out late night and stuff like that. So, is that something that also can be addressed through the noise and disturbance issue? Is that something for licensing? They want to do it as events and such like? Because obviously when it was the RAD, there was a lot of coming and going at certain hours, and it's people rather than kids. Yeah, there were all sorts in the RAD. I mean, it did cater for a broad spectrum. But this, I mean, within that particular use, we don't think, we don't anticipate that the noise and disturbance created by the comings and goings is going to be demonstrably different from what the RAD operated as. However, for other reasons in terms of land use reasons and just best practice in terms of management and making sure that the actual uses remain within particular uses, we've got within the 106, we've got heads of terms to obtain that information as a management plan. And then we can get that information. It's a live document. So, if things do change over time, then we can obviously amend that as the 106 clause. So, that's all covered within the future management. Great. Thank you. That's reassuring. My substantive point was actually on page 81, which was on the BREEAM status. And it tantalisingly in 6.4 says, what does it say? It's within reach to get to very good. And obviously, I appreciate officers always do their best to try to get the maximum we can. But I think, again, to try and make sure we do the absolute best we can, it would be very frustrating having flagged it up early if we don't get to that kind of score. So, you know, it's all degrees, isn't it? But obviously, we want to get the maximum we possibly can credit after this kind of thing. And it's frustrating sometimes when we hear that, oh, we could have done that if we'd done X earlier. And I just want to make sure we're doing everything we can to make sure that doesn't happen in this case and we get to what we've been teased with. Certainly, I totally agree. And we have pegged the BREEAM score within Condition 6 as to be very good as a minimum. So, hopefully, that obviously sets out what our aspiration is as a local planning authority. But I would say, I mean, this is a heritage building, and LP10 does actually make allowances. You know, there is a balance to be struck between retaining the significance of the heritage asset, you know, not knocking it down, obviously, but improving it, and that goes into the mix. Okay, is the Councillor White. Yeah, just a couple of points. Yeah, on that point about retaining the building, that's excellent for sustainability. But are there any retrofitting aspects to this? Is there improvement of the fabric of the building? And maybe the, you know, the way that we're going to have a sustainable energy system? Yeah, there are. I mean, as I mentioned earlier, the actual approach to heat and cooler building has been done through, you know, modern technology and sustainable equipment. So, air source heat pumps and, you know, other examples of technology along those lines. But in order to achieve a BREAM score of very good, there has to be physical interventions within the building in order to actually make it, you know, the B lean stage when they actually make it thermally efficient. And also, the technology that they're using to run the proposal has well exceeded the minimum 35% over Part L 2021. So, everything is, it's as best as it can do, can perform in this particular regard, whilst maintaining the significance of the building, you know, the granary building within a conservation area. Sorry, Chair. Go on. Another question. And also, it talks about the social and community... Would it benefit Batsy social and community infrastructure? But how would affordability and accessibility be assured so that all of the local community can benefit from it? The pricing is something, you know, that we're not... We don't have a policy to be able to dictate what that looks like when the facility opens. We could have done that if the actual floor area of the change of use triggered affordable workspace contributions. But it doesn't. It's not the existing building and the amount of use changed. Because some of the actual floors still remain within an educational F1 use. It's only parts of the building that change away from that F1. So, it doesn't trigger the amount of floor space in order for us to require affordable workspace, which obviously would be discounted and made available to the public. So, it's binary in that regard in terms of what triggers affordable workspace and what doesn't. Thank you all. Is the application agreed? Agreed unanimously. Thank you. Then we move on to page 369. An application for Putney High Street. A gaming, not a gambling, but a gaming application. And Councillor Brook is here to speak about it. Councillor Brook. Chairman, members of the committee, thank you very much for the opportunity to speak on behalf of Putney residents who are united in their strong opposition to this application for an adult gaming centre at the Norroy Road junction with Putney High Street. Despite what the paper says, this proposal is incompatible with the local plan policy cited. The gambling policy reaffirmed less than 24 hours ago in this very room, which this application will need to satisfy at licensing. And finally, it's completely wrong for Putney and the hopes that residents have for their high street. Let me first address the principles of development as outlined in the planning papers. Paragraph 1.2 claims that under policy LP 42 and PM 5, the application would need to diversify the centre's offer and enhance the vitality of the centre. This application does none of these, and the assertion that it does when the paper makes it is simply wrong. Adding yet another gambling venue to an area already saturated with such uses doesn't diversify the high street or make it more vibrant. There is already another gambling venue just like the one, the business making this application just 30 metres away, and there are two betting shops also in close proximity. To suggest that this gaming centre would not contribute to over-concentration is either a mistake or a willfully negligent interpretation of reality. Paragraph 1.6 of the report is another example of a glaring contradiction. It acknowledges that our local plan includes measures to prevent over-concentration of gambling venues, yet immediately lists the already significant clustering of such establishments in the area and still recommends the application for approval. Residents aren't wrong to highlight the harm of over-concentration, and the report itself inadvertently proves their point. Paragraph 1.5 attempts to justify this application by citing high vacancy rates on the high street. But in my in-residence opinion, a gambling centre is not better than a vacancy. Once it's in, it's in. It's not temporary. Approving this would be simplistic thinking and short-term instead of thinking about the long-term health and character of our high street. Paragraph 3.3, meanwhile, suggests that the gaming centre would generate less noise than a pub and uses this to justify approval. This is naïve, surely. Mercure, the operator of an identical business 30 metres away, sells alcohol 23 hours a day, seven days a week. If approved, it's all but guaranteed that this business will also apply for an alcohol licence alongside its 23 hours a day, seven days a week, planned opening hours. To prevent otherwise, is wishful thinking at best or an intentional omission at worst? Now, let me turn to the ones with gambling policy, which this application fails to meet on multiple counts. This business would, if this committee makes the mistake of approval, would need to satisfy the policy. Paragraph 15.17 of that policy is clear. Gambling premises should not be located near sensitive community venues, such as libraries. Yet this proposed gaming centre is situated just steps from Putney Library. Approving this application would undermine our commitment to fostering safe, family-friendly spaces in our community. Paragraph 15.22 of the policy states that the Council will carefully consider the cumulative impact of gambling venues, including their potential contribution to crime, antisocial behaviour and economic harm. Paragraph 15.24 goes further, identifying the over-concentration of gaming establishments and that it negatively impacts the diversity and vibrancy of high streets. This application blatantly violates both provisions. To approve a planning application for a gambling venue that would inevitably fail under our licensing policies would not only undermine our credibility but embarrass this committee, and to do so just 24 hours after reaffirming the gambling policy in this very room would be nothing short of ridiculous. Moreover, approving this application would betray the trust of Putney residents. They have made their wishes clear. They do not want this. Gaming establishments disproportionately impact the most vulnerable members of society, exacerbating issues of addiction, financial hardship and family breakdown. In conclusion, this application and the paper recommending it for approval fail on their own terms. Another gaming centre would plainly cause over-concentration, which the local plan contains provisions to prevent. It fails to meet the provisions of the ones with gambling policy, which explicitly acknowledges the issue of cumulative impact and advises against this placement, and it threatens to further erode the character and vibrancy of Putney High Street. I urge colleagues to reject this application. Thank you. Any questions of Councillor Brook, Councillor Govindia, Councillor Apps, Councillor Ayres? I see in the report comments from EDO, but any comments from Positively Putney, which is the local bid, whether they agree with EDO's comment that a gambling establishment is a better thing than an empty premises? No. I don't think, Positively Putney, the bids have commented, to my knowledge. I think there's an issue, there's a delicacy that a bid has to deal with when they end up representing any business that they end up on. Yeah. Councillor Apps? Thank you, and thanks very much for that presentation. I was interested to know the other gambling outlets. Are they also close to Putney? It sounds like they're all quite close by. Are they also close to Putney Library? Yes, they are. So, Mercure is on the corner of Chelverton Road and Putney High Street, all sort of equidistant from Putney Library. I guess it's about 100 metres away from Putney Library. And then there's a Ladbrokes betting shop, even close to Putney Library, on the corner of the station approach, and there's a paddy power on the junction directly opposite the High Street, opposite to Disraeli Road, where the library is as well. Councillor Ayers? Sorry, could I just come in with just a quick supplementary on that? So, it might not be for you, it might be for the officers, but I wonder if that was in breach, if this is in breach of the policy, if those were in breach of the policy when they were established, or if we've had a change of policy. But you might not be able to answer that, I realise. I think that is for the officers. Councillor Ayers? I think I've misunderstood what I thought this was. I didn't read this as a betting shop, because I've seen a few gaming cafes, and they're not like betting shops at all. They're sort of lines of people staring at screens in a sort of totally comatose, silent manner. And I kind of share your horror of a betting shop with alcohol, but this is not applying for a licence as I see it at the moment. And we can cross that bridge when we come to it, I would have thought. Meanwhile, can somebody explain to me the difference between what they call a gaming shop, and what you've been calling a betting shop? I think that's for the officers. Can I come in just like you could explain? Okay. Because I don't think Gautsterbrook understands this as I see it. And that is, if it's what he thinks it is, it needs separately, sorry, that's the way the bureaucracy works, a licence. And that's from a licensing committee, and the need to get the licence from someone else. We're looking at it purely from the planning perspective, and not from, with respects, a lot of what you spoke about. Because that's a licensing matter. Can I answer the question though? May I? Yeah, let's be open about it. Thank you very much. Well, I serve on the licensing committee, and I was part of the team that looked at the gambling policy just recently. So I understand the difference. My point about the licensing issue there was it's mad for this council to... Okay, it may well be mad. No, no, okay, fine. But we don't write the rules. The rules are we are not the licensing committee. To answer Councillor Eyre's question directly, this isn't a betting shop in the sense of where you'd go and watch the horse racing while placing a bet. This is like Mercure, which is obviously you can't see in from the high street at all. But once you go in, it's just banks and banks and banks of slot machines, with a bar. Councillor White, if this is a question of Councillor Brook... If it's a councillor, the question of the officers... I think it might be for officers, really. Okay. I mean... If there's no more questions, Councillor Brook, can I say, like Councillor Ayres, I've got a lot of sympathy for where you're coming from. I've been coming through this discussion many times. We will move on now to the questioning of the officers. Question of the officers. Councillor White. Yeah, I was just wondering, if these sort of gaming centres are allowed, is there any reports or anything about the negative impacts that these have on communities? Is there anything that we could point to to say that this is probably going to have a negative impact on the Putney community? Yes. Thank you. I mean, there must be some statistics somewhere about a national kind of impact of gaming and gambling, but that's not information that we would have here or necessarily relevant. What we've looked at here is, in land use terms, is the land use acceptable in this location based on whether or not there is an over-concentration? I understand that Councillor Brooks has not drawn a distinction necessarily between the difference between a betting shop and what this is offering. A betting shop has a very different experience, I'm sure, and a different thing that you are gambling on. Animals, horses, football, whatever, cricket games. This is very much a gaming centre. You go in, you choose to play a particular game of your fancy until whenever, 24 hours if you want. There is no alcohol proposed on this site at all. The people who, and as far as we were concerned, sorry, when we were assessing the policy in terms of the concentration of uses, we could only identify one similar gaming centre within Putney High Street and having discussed it in consultation with our policy officers as well as with the economic development officer, we all concluded that one other in the street could not be considered an over-concentration if one more was introduced. However, we are very aware of the fact that if another one came along, a third, now that would perhaps tip the balance here slightly in terms of this kind nature of use within the street, because it is less active than a public house or a bar or an eatery would have been. So, as officers, perhaps we would prefer to see it being more of an active retail-based activity, but we have no control over that. We have to consider what is before us. The applicants have submitted a very detailed security and social responsibility statement that sets out quite clearly the sort of training they do with staff and what kind of methods they have in-house to ensure that people are safe while they're in there. And if it's an evening, they usually have security on the door anyway, or staff that are used to working at night time. That's another thing that comes into the policy as well now is the night time economy. So, again, that is an element that is very much a high street focused policy that's been brought in to encourage that, because I think a third of Londoners work at night. So, you know, or use those night time facilities. So, officers completely understand the view of residents as Councillor Brooks has set out. But from a pure planning point of view, the policy has an element in it that avoids an over-concentration. In this case, officers have considered it to be acceptable. Now, in thinking about this, I am as unhappy about this as many people might be. But just think, if we were to say something like no, Mr Calder alongside me would be immediately saying, you've got to give reasons, planning reasons. Are there any planning reasons? And I just don't see it. So, we've still got quite a lot to do. So, go on Sir Cole Keel and then let's wrap it up. Sorry, I'll make a quick. I just, there hasn't really been many comments yet about Councillor Brooks's point of it being particularly close to a library. And that would be potentially in conflict with our plan. So, could we have some thoughts on that? Oh, I think the police have been very clear about it. And there's one in Clapham Junction. It's so silent. I mean, it's more dead than any threat, frankly. That's slightly unfair of me. Because Councillor Justin had his hand up as well. Councillor Justin. I just want to know, through the change of use from back to when it was the Horsetube Pub, through to it, it says various outlets. Has the square foot of this unit changed over that period? Or is it still the same? Because what happens, people talk about the death of the High Street, especially in Putney, all over London. This is exactly the type of development that you lose. So that once it's become this gaming, it will never become anything else. Because what you see is what you get. There's no stock room with a gaming place. There's no back room. What you see is what you get. And that's why we've got so many nail bars and coffee shops, which we don't need. And this is another. And I'd just like to take issue with the officer saying, in her opinion, you know, one gaming place, two, maybe three, is when she would think it was unacceptable. I mean, you know, it depends on what you think. You can have lots of hairdressers, lots of coffee shops. Maybe you wouldn't have more than one abattoir in a high street. You know, it's purely your opinion. I think one is too many. Two is definitely too many. I would just like to say that this is policy based in terms of our assessment. It's not my own personal view. Can I say something? Mr Gorder. Two things. Firstly, I'm just a little bit concerned by Councillor Brook's discussion about willful negligence by officers. And I hope he doesn't interpret that, that we haven't fully assessed this against planning policies. And what he meant was it was willful negligence in terms of the town centre, because if he's having a particular officer, I might have to take that up with you separately. We'll go with the latter interpretation then. Thank you, Mr Gorder. In terms of, as you mentioned before, the next point is sort of related to knowing that there would be a concern if there's 600 objections and it's an unpopular use. I thought I'd take the liberty of looking at other appeal decisions that have been in the last couple of weeks. We've got access to ones nationally. I just looked at ones in London. And there's an appeal decision which was last week in Greenwich, which they, the inspector, well, it was recommended by officers for approval, refused by committee. So, you know, it was sort of thinking about similar aspects. It was allowed by the inspectorate. The first point was that he had a clear definition or distinction between an adult gaming centre and a betting shop. So, he didn't take into account existing betting shops. He just looked at adult gaming centres. So, quite a similar situation. He felt that there was one or two other ones in the Eltham town centre, but it wasn't an overconcentration. So, it's quite a similar situation. And the second point was that there were concerns from the members of committee regarding antisocial behaviour. And he felt it would be less than would be established in a normal town centre from pubs and other late-night establishments. So, those are the sort of aspects that we were talking about here and also issues in terms of the community. And, obviously, the members in this one were raised concerned about youngsters, underage people going in, but it's over 18s only. So, it's sort of limited in terms of the impact on those sorts of sides. So, not drawing too many distinctions, but I know that those are the sort of concerns I'm sure a lot of local residents have. And I sort of just sort of highlight them to you now. I'm not sure I like some of that, but I don't see that we've got any choice. I'm trying to keep trying to draw things to a conclusion. Councillor Epps. Thank you. I actually... It's a specific question. I hope Mr. Calder can answer it. I realise it's slightly stepping into other remits, but will this... I mean, I've sat on licensing as well, and, you know, this is something that I presume would go to licensing. I'm assuming it hasn't gone to licensing yet, that that would be a later stage, but I don't know if you could clarify that. I don't know, but normally you'd establish a land base, and when you had an operator, which I don't think this has, then they would get the licence. And I'd ask Mr. Moore to confirm that. Yes, Chairman, that's correct. I don't think there's anything that mandates in which order a premises licence or a planning consent is obtained. But I think I agree with Mr. Calder's view that normally you would get planning consent in place first and then make the application under the Gambling Act. But it's very clear in terms of planning law that you shouldn't impose conditions or try and merge regimes. There are two separate regimes. They may have overlapping considerations, but they're both requirements of the applicant here to firstly get a consent and then get a licence under the Gambling Act. There's two people who want to speak. This could give up for ages. We've all got views about it. I don't think we would get anywhere, but Councillor Justin, then Councillor Humphreys. A question to Mr. Calder. You set out this wonderful example in Greenwich, but you never ended it, so what was the decision in Greenwich? It was allowed. It was allowed, okay. You never did actually say that. Yeah, my point was, various applications have been refused by councils and they've all been allowed, you know, there was three in the last couple of weeks. Councillor Humphreys. Thank you, Chair. I appreciate your generosity. It's a technical point again, so probably back to you chaps over there. This one's change of use to sui generis. So does that mean they have to have an application for a licence to serve alcohol because it was a pub before? Or would they be able to do that automatically anyway? Do they still need to get a licence for gambling? But what about the alcohol part? Can I, sorry, I just want to say that in their statement that they've submitted as part of the application, they don't serve alcohol on any of their premises. That's, it would appear to me that it's not part of their thing. I thought we just heard there wasn't an operator designated, so there was no operator. How can they make that assertion? Yeah, no, no, no, that was a, it is actually luxury, luxury leisure is the operator. Isn't the same operator that Councillor Brooks was talking about over the road? Is the recommendation, however, unwillingly agreed? Right. Have you got reasons to objection? I'd like to abstain. Right. So, if everyone's abstaining, it goes through on my vote, and this is slightly, I mean, this is the penalty of being in a committee which is subject to the operations of the law. Therefore, you have to have reasons for objection and reasons that stand up. So, sorry? Well, you try reasons, when it goes to appeal against the express advice of the officers and everyone else, well, are you going to turn up and fight the council's case on it because they're saying there's no case? We have to test out the reasons, and in order to test out the reasons, officers might guide me. I mean, I just think that, at the core of our planning policies for decades, the vitality of five town centres has been fundamental. And I know the EDO thinks that an operating premises is better than an empty premises. It's a judgment he makes. I'm not sure he has any basis for that, other than saying, you know, somebody occupying is better. It could be anyone occupier. I think that this goes against the continuing recovery and vitality of Putney High Street, and therefore it compromises a core bit of council's policy, which has sustained the borough for five decades. Any other? Right. Would you care to be precise about the wording? That the operator, by the nature of these, will affect the continuing recovery of Putney High Street, and undermine its vitality. There's a similar establishment or two in Clapham Junction. That seems to be being fairly lively and living centre, so I'm not sure about that. Is that seconded? Seconded by Councillor Humphreys. Those in favour of refusal on those grounds? Those against? It loses by four votes to five, I think. Right. Now, I think there was no one abstention, which is... No, no, no. There's two abstentions to the whole... But on that particular point, you're... On that particular point, no, I'm not backing them, no. So, four to six. Okay. So, we're still left with the application, and I, however unwillingly, like everyone else, I'm fully in favour of the officers' recommendations for technical reasons. So, can I move that we have a vote on it now? Those in favour of the application as it stands now? Four. Those against? Four. Chairman's casting vote, it passes through. Any abstentions? Yeah, any abstentions? Two abstentions, and then your custom vote. Yep, yep. So, that's approved. So, that application is approved. Move on to number one. It's me. The rectory, which I think is pretty good in all details, particularly planning details. I'm not sure how much of an intro we need, but I also know, and so do the officers know, that Councillor Ayres has a fundamental problem with the design of two or three of the properties, and I urge, I encourage urgently that Mr. Granger talks to her, and listens to what she has to say, and puts forward to the applicant her comments, which I think have a lot of justification and justice, but are not reasons for refusal. So, I just say that. Apart from that, any other comments on this application, Councillor Govindia? I mean, it's a small point. I mean, there are quite a lot of units here for disabled people, and I just don't think there is an adequate amount of parking. And it's not an area where on-street parking is easy to get. You'd have to park on Rectory Lane, which is always heavily parked. I just think it's an ill-thought-out provision for disabled residents. Mr. Chidley, any comment? Not specifically. The development provides one single disabled parking bay. The clear intention here is that the property would be occupied by disabled people who do not own or otherwise run a car, and I can think of many disabled people who fall into that category. Sorry, let's not go into that debate, Mr. Chidley, because it does talk about wheelchair accessibility, and wheelchair accessibility generally implies that current occupier or a future occupier will need mobility aid, and often that is a car. And there would be space for vehicles to be able to set down and pick up disabled people on-site, and as we did discuss earlier, any disabled person in the development that did actually have a blue badge would be able to park in any controlled zones in the surrounding areas. I think that's worth noting. But apart from that, is it Councillor White? Yeah, I just wanted to note or question the value of viability report. It says they are going to show a deficit of 645,000. Their own viability report says it is going to have a deficit of 710,000. So why the hell are they building? They are doing it for charity? They are obviously going to make a profit here, but these viability reports aren't really reflecting the true nature of these developments. So, yeah, just wanted to make a note of that. Mr Granger, there is an issue about timing here, isn't there? Tonight, or...? Oh, sorry. Have I got this completely wrong? I do beg your pardon. Timing... Sorry, Chair, in what regard? I thought this application was originally put forward before the current viability rules. Have I got that wrong? Am I confusing that with something else? Viability rules? That's what... Repeat. Councillor White is saying that... Councillor White, let me not... Okay. You mean the Regulation 19, the emergence of the Regulation 19 plan in affordable housing? I'm sorry, I'm fishing. Councillor White, start again. No, just that the development is going to go... They want to develop, even though our viability report shows £645,000 deficit. Their one shows £710,000 deficit. There's also a contribution of £150,000 here. So, by their own reckoning, they're probably going to lose £1 million by doing this development. It just doesn't make sense to me why they would do it. They're not a charity. Well, in that regard, I mean, we've seen lots of... We've seen many schemes that have been brought forward where they've indicated deficits and taken a market speculative decision to proceed and see what could happen with the market over the three-year life period of the application, and market conditions could change. They obviously are of the view that market conditions would improve and that the scheme would be deliverable. So, them agreeing the figure of £645,000 is obviously the figure that we've arrived at in terms of our independent viability consultants along with our in-house viability team that have been specifically put together to assist our independent viability scrutineers to really examine these figures, go deep. They've challenged every single input into these financial viability assessments put forward by the applicant, which is why it's taken so long. It's been months and months of ongoing meetings and exchanging of documents and evidencing why certain percentiles, certain costs per square metre, all of these things have been challenged throughout the journey. And, yeah, it's produced this deficit. Out of 34 units, nearly half a million pounds, I think, in the development industry probably isn't that great, but they still believe that they can deliver it. Councillor Light. I can just follow up and just make a comment that, yeah, that market conditions could go in favour, but it could go against them as well. Does that mean they'll just sit on it, you know, and that condition of three years will be... Probably they'll come back for another planning in three years' time? Well, they certainly couldn't come back and try and water down any affordable housing offer. Ultimately, speculatively, if it does, the market conditions do deteriorate, then they would be looking at operating at a loss on that project. And that's part of this particular process being speculative. Can I just add, if they end up making a profit, we have got a clawback mechanism set out in Section 106, so if they do make more profit, then we would have a bit larger contribution for affordable housing for other schemes. So there is an ability to get some back if it is more successful. Thank you. Okay. Having heard the comments of the officers, is the application approved? Approved. Approved with one abstention, Councillor White. We've done item two. Item three is a back extension in Furstown, Woodnock Road. I think a fairly simple one. Agreed. Is that agreed? Agreed. And then item four, similarly in similar-ish kind of application in Furstown. Again, is that agreed? Can I ask a quick question, Chair? Sorry. Yeah, go on. In the objections, it mentions a log burner, whereas in the report it doesn't mention anything. It's all about a log burner. You don't need planning permission for a log burner. Okay. Okay. Is that approved? Yes, it is. Item five, Lyddon Road. This is about affordable, about an industrial development in Lyddon Road between Lyddon Road and the Bendham Valley. Councillor Humphries has got something to say about it, and Councillor Ayers, who's going to leave? Sorry. Councillor Humphries. No, I've said Councillor Humphries. He's got an expression of interest in his statement. Oh, sorry. I beg your pardon. You have to leave the room, officially. I'm very keen on that. Item five. Item five. Sorry? Item five. Item six. Item five. Item six. Sorry, I thought you were on item five. What was that then? Just getting them out. We're on item five, aren't we? Yes. Right. Okay. Any issues on item five? Councillor Ayers. I'll vote for this, but I'm really intrigued that they want to put art on it, and they sound quite excited at the idea of putting art on it. I don't know what you've put in your conditions about the art, but it would be good if there was some competition or some public face to this art. If someone, do you have any control over what happens with the art? I mean, it could be. I am absolutely certain that it cannot be a matter of planning control, what kind of art they have and whether they commission John Constable or Leonardo da Vinci, but they may have practical problems with that. But I'm absolutely certain we have no planning powers. We could suggest to them they might open it to consultation. That's what I'm asking for. Thank you, David. Yes. So can we suggest to them they open it out to the local schools or whoever in the competition? Thank you. Can I suggest we just add an informative asking them to engage with local residents in terms of the art? Yes. Yes. Okay. Just a suggestion. Well, actually, I had Councillor Coakley, but I'm not sure. I'm standing up. Right. Okay. Councillor Govindia. Just following on from Councillor Eyre's point, I mean, more importantly, can we make sure that art actually happens? Because I do know one situation in Batsy-Ballam High Road where, in fact, I judged the supposed art that was going to go on. It never went on. And we don't want any clever comments later about you caught that art or something for other people to have views on it. Councillor White. Just a couple of comments. First of all, it's good that the affordable workspace expectations are met. Yes. But, yeah, just a little bit worried that this is a mid-rise zone and we've gone over the hype for that. So that's a little bit disappointing. I do think we ought to keep to what the public see as our plans originally and going over it occasionally by the odd floor here or there for additional benefits, I guess is justified. I don't like it very much when it's ten stories over. So I do think you have a point. What do we say about it being just one floor over? We were of the view that quite clear... Sorry? Sorry. Can Councillor... Sorry. Can Councillor... Sorry. Can Mr Richards talk without being interrupted, Councillor Gavindia? Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. In the report, actually, it's acknowledged that this is a storey higher than what is identified as site allocation. However, it is adjacent to a building of a similar height, which will only be one storey less. So it's not completely out of context in this location because there is a taller building next door to it. And I think in this case, what we're looking for is an uplift in the actual industrial floor area that we will get that will increase employment opportunity and so on. So overall, we're happy with this and it doesn't have any implications on residential amenity either. Well, I guess, I mean, if I can speak on Councillor White's behalf, I wonder whether I've got this vaguely right. I guess that if local plans say one height and there's a justification for being another height, fair dues. But if it's just because it's not too bad, then I think we ought to get them to stick to what they said. Hardly worth it in this case, the amount of cost of effort and so on. But I think as a flavour for planners to take note of, committee members on the whole want to stick to what the local plan says unless there's a real benefit like more affordable workspace or more open space or something else. So is that fair enough, Councillor White? Yeah. Okay. With that comment added. Councillor Humphreys. Councillor Humphreys. Councillor Humphreys. Councillor Humphreys. Councillor Humphreys. Councillor Humphreys. Thank you, Chair. Colleagues very remember what long memories we've all got. But we've had issues on Lyddon Grove before, Lyddon Road with the industrial units. It's quite a popular cut through for families going to the school on Garrett Lane in the mornings and at school trafficking hours. So I just wanted to do this probably for Mr Tidley actually. Are there any restrictions on vehicle movements, deliveries such like which are going to be quite extensive? It's off site so they're going to back into the building. And I just wanted to make sure that officers have taken that into account and maybe perhaps do an exclusion for school hours coming and going which we have done before in the area because it is quite an issue with cutting through that place for pedestrians during those school hours. Yes. Thank you, Councillor. Yes. We would try and ensure that the development was appropriately constructed. I imagine there is a construction management plan again placed on this one. Yes. And a service and delivery plan. Okay. Subject to that. Agreed. And the informative. Agreed. With the informative. Agreed. Unanimously. Yes. We've done. We're going to rattle through now. No, we haven't. No, we've got the... I think we've got two left. With Roge. Yes. Don't come back. We might give you a shout. Councillor BOSWELL, you... Are you... I need to go to the vote. Oh. So a break. And I'm quite happy not to vote on the next vote. Okay. Fair enough. I think we're... One... That's very reasonable of you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Very reasonable of you. Thank you. Well, I don't... Anyway. I could ask Mr. Moores to introduce this one unusually, because for reasons it will become obvious. Mr. Moores. Thank you very much, Chairman. So members would have carefully read the report and will have recognised that the disagreement between the applicant, as set out in the late items paper that you would have seen, and the Council relates to a particular element in relation to viability. So just a very brief refresher on viability for members before they go on to consider this application. So how a scheme is considered to be viable, you firstly calculate what the gross development value of the scheme is. So you take into account all the sales values and any rents and any other proceeds from that development. You then calculate what all the bill costs are. So including within that SIL payments, 106 contributions, consultancy fees, sales fees, that kind of thing. And then you calculate what's known as the residual land value by deducting the costs of the development from the GDV. And then you compare that residual land value against the benchmark land value. And it's the benchmark land value that is at issue in this case, this application between the applicants and the Council. So when you get to that residual level and the benchmark land value consideration, you then see whether it's in surplus or deficit. And if it's in surplus, you see how much affordable housing the development can hold. So pages 163 to 167 of the report set out how this issue has been carefully considered by officers. The viability assessment was submitted and then assessed independently by the Council's viability consultants. Taking you back to 2019 when two applications were submitted on this site. They both had significant commercial elements. So the first of which had retail, office, light industrial floor space, storage and distribution floor space. I'll call that one the commercial scheme. Then the second application had retail, office, light industrial, storage and distribution, but also 17 residential units. I'll call this one the residential scheme. Both applications were refused by the Planning Applications Committee. Both were appealed and both were subsequently allowed on appeal by a planning inspector in 2020. So as I said, this application, the difference on the scheme's viability relates to how the benchmark land value is calculated. So the applicants are promoting an alternative use value which is based on what the alternative use of the site under the commercial scheme would value the land at. The Council's position, and it's backed up by national and local policy, is that it should be an existing use plus basis evaluation. Now, if the alternative use evaluation is used, then it's common ground between the Council's assessors and the applicant's assessors that the scheme is significantly in deficit. However, if the existing use plus methodology is used, then the scheme is in surplus and could provide affordable housing, either on site or a financial contribution. And that point is made in paragraph 315 of the report on page 164. Now, previously, in an earlier Section 73 application, the Council accepted the applicant's argument at that stage that the alternative use value approach was appropriate in those circumstances. At that time, I think they were still offering six affordable units and the consent was still live. We're in a slightly different position now. That consent has lapsed and the residential scheme, as I termed it, is nearing completion. And so that commercial scheme is no longer capable of being implemented. And you will see in the report, pages 164 and 165, it sets out what the government's approach to viability is in the national planning practice guidance. And there is a strong presumption in favour of using the existing use plus methodology for establishing benchmark land value. I'm not wanting to prolong proceedings because it's fairly late, but I think it's a very important point to raise in terms of this guidance. If I may just read, please, from the bottom of page 164. So this is the planning practice guidance on viability. For the purposes of viability assessment, alternative use value refers to the value of land for uses other than its existing use. AUV of the land may be informative in establishing benchmark land value. If applying alternative uses when establishing benchmark land value, these should be limited to those uses which would fully comply with up-to-date development plan policies, including any policy requirements for contributions towards affordable housing at the relevant levels set out in the plan. Where it is assumed that an existing use will be refurbished or redeveloped, this will be considered as an AUV when establishing benchmark land value. Plan makers can set out in which circumstances alternative uses can be used. This might include if there is evidence that the alternative use would fully comply with up-to-date development plan policies, if it can be demonstrated that the alternative use could be implemented on the site in question, if it can be demonstrated that there is market demand for that use, and if there is an explanation as to why the alternative use has not been pursued. Where AUV is used, this should be supported by evidence of the cost and values of the alternative use to justify the land value. Valuation based on AUV includes a premium to the landowner if evidence of AUV is being considered. The premium to the landowner must not be double counted. So I will just take the numbers back. In order to be able to use that alternative use value, then that alternative use must fully comply with council policies, and it does not. Secondly, it is not capable of being implemented because it was granted consent on appeal in 2020, with a three-year commencement period, and that has lapped. So, in addition, Chairman, there is national planning policy framework hot off the presses today, as we discussed at the outset of the meeting. And paragraph 59, it was 58 under the previous MPPF. I am reading the final sentence. All viability assessments, including any undertaken at the plan-making stage, should reflect the recommended approach in national planning practice guidance, including standardised inputs, and should be made publicly available. So the MPPF says that in dealing with viability, you should follow the national planning practice guidance. So that is what I just read from the report. Also in the Council's planning obligations, SPG, there is a part that says to ensure that the Council's approach is consistent with the London-wide approach, then it should be an existing use value plus basis on assessing benchmark land value. So in summary, I direct members to paragraphs 3.36 and 3.38 on page 167, which says that in summary, the viability has been tested and verified using the AUV methodology, whilst the Council accept that this was appropriate to use in the circumstances under application 2019 1426. That is the commercial scheme. That permission is now lapsed. It says under the Council's planning SPG and national planning policy guidance, the correct method of calculating the benchmark land value is the existing use value plus method. And Carter Jonas have advised of the Council that on that basis, the development would yield a surplus of 1.66 million and is able to support affordable housing provision. As such, the proposed development would fail to provide an appropriate level of affordable housing, contrary to policy LP23 of the local plan and the objectives of policy H4 of the London plan. So despite the perhaps slightly threatening letter that some members may have read, your legal opinion is that we are on solely ground refusing this application and going along with the officer's recommendation? Chairman, yes, that is my advice to members. Now, I suspect that if members follow that advice and refuse the application, then I suspect they will appeal and it will be down to a planning inspector to determine whether, in his or her view, it would be appropriate to use the AUV method of benchmark land value. I don't believe it is. Well, I think we can all see that they're trying to avoid a certain level of affordable housing and we're being told that our position in refusing to let them do that is acceptable. I would suggest that we just accept the officer's recommendation to refuse. But if anyone got any comment? Agreed. Agreed. Everyone agrees on that? Agreed. Just to add, just a disgraceful act really on behalf of the developer. I think one has to remember that developers, people in commercial businesses operate to make a profit. What they do, whether you think it's moral or not, unless it's illegal, it's what they do. Okay. Item, the next three items we've done, and over the page we've done 10 and 11, leaving as Brett House, Putney Heath Lane, which is a conversion of one flat into two, which will not be seen outside of the actual flat and is perfectly acceptable, I think. So, Councillor Govindy has got something to say about it. Thank you, Chairman. It's just that I have had representation from residents within the block and their concerns are about, in a sense, additional pressure on what they consider to be a very under-pressure area, in terms of both parking, in terms of waste collection and disposal, and they have concerns about the quality of the accommodation that comes. So, I did say to them that I would be making this point to you. One specific issue they're concerned about is that by providing cycle storage in the garage, they effectively make the garage unusable for parking, adding to additional parking pressure. Thank you for making a point on behalf of your residents. Nonetheless, Councillor White. Yes, just a quick one. There's a new boiler being put in, and I presume that that's gas. So, you know, it's not, yeah, it's not a progressive or sustainable conversion in my mind. Again, we don't have control over everyone's boiler, I mean, but noted. Is the application agreed? Agreed. Agreed. Thank you. That concludes— One abstention. With one abstention. Two abstentions. So, that finishes the application. So, going on to the closure of investigations FAR, which is for information, is that noted? Yes. And closed appeals noted? Yes. Tree preservation orders. Agreed. Agreed. Decisions paper noted. And that concludes— No, no, no, no. Sorry, sorry. What do I got? In the late items, I'll put the statistics. It wasn't able to be run at the time, but I'm going to change them from the next ones, because so they go monthly rather than between committees, and I think it might be more sensible for everybody to know previous month. Yes. Absolutely. Okay, that concludes the committee. Thank you. And I'd like to say if it's finished and closed down, Chris, I'd like to say if anyone's still got the stamina.
Transcript
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to this meeting of the Planning Applications Committee, the meeting of December 2024. We've got a reasonably busy night tonight, so let's crack on. My name's Tony Bellton. I'm a councillor for Battersea Park Ward in Battersea. I'm chair of the Planning Applications Committee. I will be asking members, that is councillors who have contributions to make, to introduce themselves when we get to them, not all in one go, but I will introduce or ask people to introduce themselves on the top table, if they would. So, beginning on my left. Good evening, everyone. I'm Nick Calder. I'm the Head of Development Management at Wandsworth Council. Good evening. My name is Duncan Moores. I'm the External Legal Advisor. Good evening, everybody. My name's Callum Wernham. I'm Democratic Services and clerking the committee this evening. Okay. Thank you. Have we got any apologies for absence? None received. No apologies. In fact, we've got, yes, clearly a full house. And have we got any declarations of interest? Anyone got any pecuniary interests? Councillor Humphreys? Thank you, Chair. Councillor Guy Humphreys, Councillor for Southfields in Putney, an opposition speaker on this committee. I've got an interest, not pecuniary, but in item number six, 150 to 170, Penwith Road. I'm a very close neighbour. I've had dealings with the people concerned with the applicant, so I'll step off the committee for that one. Any other declarations of interest? Councillor White. I'm not sure that it affects tonight, but I'm a member of Community Renewable Energy Wandsworth. And you are? Sorry, Councillor Paul White from the Tootinbeck Ward. And a member of, as I say, Community Renewable Energy Wandsworth, but I draw no financial benefit from my involvement with them. I'm sorry to have a, we're finished, right? We're on the left of the minutes. Ah, I've seen the copy of the minutes. Have you, Councillor Humphreys? Happy for me to sign the minutes as a correct record? Agreed. Right. Now, I think that's correct. Now we move on to the applications. There are 12 applications tonight, which is one of our busier occasions recently. Um, and we have several councillors, four councillors here, uh, who want to speak on various items. In deference to their evening, but more particularly the public gallery's evening, um, I, I'm going to take the order of the meeting as follows. Item 7, uh, the Innes Gardens application. Item 8, the Haywood Gardens. Item 9, uh, the Courtess Road. And item 10, uh, the rather different, but similar in one sense, as a Councillor Estate, Ackroyd and Estate application. We've got representations from the councillors. Can I make it clear that these representations, um, are about the councillor's view of, of what they're doing and what they're representing? They cannot be asked planning, strictly planning, uh, questions. They're not planning officers. They don't have planning expertise. So the questions are about their presentations and what they have to say and indeed what their constituents think, which is fair enough. Um, now on the first application, which is, um, uh, Councillor Austin, which is to speak. Then there's, uh, then on the second one, councillors, Sutter's and Ann Bash and the third Councillor Austin. I just wonder whether, seeing that all three are these one estate, whether we just want an introductory remark about the estate before we get on with, for the councillors, if that's okay by the councillors. Okay. Mr. Calder, an introduction about the three estates, three applications in general. Thank you. Yes. I'll, I'll hand over to, uh, Cathy Malloy, who'll do a little brief introduction on that. I just wanted, before we start, is just to draw members' attention, uh, I sent, uh, all members, uh, an email earlier today that the new, uh, national planning policy framework has been updated, um, and it makes various, uh, a few changes, um, and emphasizes house building, um, and increases mandatory, mandatory targets, um, makes a number of other, uh, changes to it. So, um, uh, myself, uh, officers and our legal advisor have reviewed the MPPF because, uh, because it's released today. It now becomes a material consideration. Um, we've, uh, consider, uh, that, uh, all the matters raised in reports and the assessment and the recommendations are in line with the new, uh, MPPF. So, I am quite happy that we'll, we, we don't need to change any recommendations. Uh, we have an up-to-date local plan, which is one of the main thrusts of it. And we have a seven-year, uh, housing land supply, which is another thrust of it. So, without further ado, and if you do have questions, you, uh, members, you can always come back to me on that email. Um, I'd hand over to Cathy, who's going to do a brief introduction. Sorry. Sorry. It's Councillor Givindia, East Putney Councillor. In light of what Mr. Calder just said, perhaps Mr. Moore could actually make some points clear about the MPPF. If I haven't had the chance to read it, um, I think it came out in the middle of the afternoon. Is it a material consideration in that, that the MPPF is effective? Is it a consultation where it's a material consideration, but of a lesser quality? Uh, so, so in some ways, I think to just throw MPPF recently announced this afternoon into the well of the chamber to say, that's it, uh, I think we need to know a little more to say how material it is and what, uh, how does it impact on our individual decisions? I can see from Mr. Calder's point of view slightly differently, but our decisions. Count, excuse me, Councillor Givindia. Um, in a way, I agree with you, but we've been advised that it makes no material difference today. We, this, uh, uh, we live in a very dynamic world. Things are changing all the time, um, and it's a long enough agenda for us to sit through and listen for a 10-minute discussion to conclude it makes no difference. I'm not prepared to accept, we've been assured it doesn't make any difference on a first glance, um, so I can ask Mr. Malloy to introduce. Yeah, that's fine. Okay. Um, sorry, who do you want to write to you? Mr. Moores? I'm happy, forgive me. Right, okay. I'm happy to add to the email that, uh, Mr. Calder sent to all members this afternoon. So, we, yeah, it was published, I think, about midday today, um, there was a, a session in the Commons, um, from the Minister and the, the Shadow Minister discussing all the elements. It's very difficult to summarise an 80-page document prior to, to the applications this evening, but, um, members can be assured that we've considered whether any changes within this national policy affect the consideration of your applications this evening, and the recommendations considered within those, and there are, there are no changes that need to be brought to members' attention, Chairman. Thank you. Ms. Malloy? Uh, good evening, everyone. I'm Cathy Malloy, um, Principal Planning Officer in Wandsworth. Um, so I'm going to do a very brief overview in terms of the applications that are before us this evening, um, items seven, eight, and nine. Um, and I'll just show my screen, just one moment. Can you set this up? Oh, it's going to be, anyway. It's going to be on there. Okay. So, just in terms of, just to give an overview of where the applications are located, this is the Ashburton Estate in Putney, and we've got three, um, applications on the agenda this evening. Um, one for Innes Gardens, um, which are two sites here. We've got Hayward Gardens, which, again, are two sites. Courtess Road, which the main site is there. There's also some improvements to the play area there, and also improvements to the, um, children's playground, um, in the middle of the site. So, I think we're going to pause there, um, and the Councillor's going to speak, and then we'll go back and go through each one of the, um, applications in detail. Just so that I get this right, um, I know the area pretty well, but this is Putney Heath at the bottom of the page. Correct. Uh, so, for those people who automatically think in map terms, like I sometimes do, the north is in the bottom part of the picture, and the south is in the top part of the picture, as it were. Yeah. Correct. Okay, understood. Okay, I think that's the scene set in the very broadest sense. So, over to Councillor Austin. Thank you very much, Chair. Sorry, I do beg your pardon. I should have said, I'm sure all four of you know, you've got five minutes each, and, uh, that does actually mean, uh, Councillor Sutters and Councillor Ampers, you're going to have to split your five minutes, but I think you know that. Uh, okay, Councillor Austin. Thank you very much, Councillor Birlton. Can I just start by thanking you, as Chair, for allowing me to represent the residents of Innes Gardens tonight? Um, given today's announcements, I'm fully aware of the vogue for the planning decisions to be taken away from local residents, but we, as elected members, need residents to have confidence in the decisions this Council makes. I'm afraid that the perception many of my residents have, fair or otherwise, is that this Council is trying to sneak this in before Christmas. I could, I really could be here for a long time talking about the deficiencies of the application. In fact, this entire report just goes to show the lackadaisical nature of the Council's approach to the Ashburton Development Scheme. I lost count of the number of times in this report that the development is either referred to as Hayward Gardens, HG1, HG2, or even the wrong number of units in the proposed scheme on multiple occasions. Instead, though, I want to concentrate on three matters. Firstly, parking. From the outset, it was acknowledged that parking is going to be an issue as Ashburton relies heavily on cars. That is, in part, the reflection of the P-TAL rating of 2. The loss of parking spaces will be most acutely felt in Innes Gardens, where 16 parking spaces will be lost and 10 garages removed. It is essential, therefore, that an accurate parking survey and report is submitted in which current and future parking demands can be accurately assessed. The report states that surveys were conducted on 7th and 8th February 2023, following the Lambeth methodology. This is not the case. The Lambeth methodology explicitly recommends avoiding survey weeks that encompass school holidays and suggests steering clear of weeks preceding and following holidays. The surveys were carried out the week before half-term holidays. As a consequence, the results relating to the existing parking stress levels cannot be relied upon. The Traffic Assessment Survey is fundamentally flawed, as it relies on data from 2011 and is significantly outdated, and the 2021 census data should be used instead. This oversight means that the survey should be redone using up-to-date information before the matter can be determined. Latterly, on the parking front, 50% of parking spaces in the area are not controlled by a CPZ. This lack of regulation means the condition proposed in the report is unenforceable. Secondly, loss of amenity. The loss of amenity in this development is going to have a serious impact on the residents in Innes Gardens, the loss of 10 garages, 27 storage units, without any provision to replace them is wrong. All apartments have storage issues and space constraints. In older buildings, this issue is worse. Removing these units and not replacing them is going to cause more crowding in the apartments and inevitably cause to spill out into the communal area, causing a fire and safety risk. Lastly, LP24 sets out the preferred housing mix for new developments, which says that one-bedroom dwellings make the highest proportion of affordable homes with 40% to 45%. But this council, which should be considered, updated its partial planning review last week, of which it said that the existing policy caters for a relatively high proportion of one-bed properties, which does not fully reflect the types of homes most needed. Why are we not following best practice and catering for the housing need regardless of the current local plan? My residents are not NIMBYs. They're not anti-housing. They simply want the right homes in the right places. There is, Mr Chairman, much more that I could say about this application. The design review panel had various issues in the report that have not been adequately addressed. The design is considered to have a negative visual impact on the surrounding area. It does not complement the existing architectural style, leading to discordant appearance. The design fails to adequately address issues of privacy and overlooking. Policy LP27 emphasises the importance of high-quality, well-designed residential environments. This policy highlights the need for sufficient private outdoor space, natural light, and overall residential immunity that all new developments must comply with. Only four units comply with this standard. Since COVID, the emphasis on private outside space and how important it is to people's mental well-being simply makes the substandard offering of the outside space in this proposal unacceptable. If this committee allows a badly thought-out, substandard development proposal that fails on so many grounds to be waved through, then it will open the floodgates to challenges on developments that have been refused. There is only so many times that you can say it does not strictly comply and allow for some flexibility before the cumulative impact on residents far outweighs the benefit to existing and new residents. This scheme is far beyond what is acceptable, and I urge you to please vote against it tonight. Thank you. Thank you. APPLAUSE OK, OK. I think you've made your point clear. Very excellent. Five minutes, 20 seconds. Not bad at all. And I commend you for your elegant positioning of your constituents' concerns. Now, let me... This is an opportunity for members to ask questions of the councillor concerned. He raised several issues of... Definitely of planning issues like parking, loss of amenity and the right houses in the right place. Those are questions that you can, by all means, ask of officers that are qualified to give the councillor's official position. I'm not interested, nor can we be, legally, in what Councillor Austin, with respect, thinks on those particular issues. We have advisers to do that. So, any questions to the councillor about his presentation? Councillor Govindia. Thank you, Chair. Just what you didn't mention was the play areas, and I'm really reading through some of the correspondence of the local residents. There is concern about the play areas, the overlooking or not overlooking the safety and the security and so on. And, in fact, there is only this evening a letter from one of the young mothers saying exactly the same. So, I don't know what your residents feel about the revised play arrangements. And, secondly, I'd sort of say, well, do you think... A lot of people say that they've made their points, but they've not been heard. Do you feel that they have felt... They feel adequately represented by the councillor in the review of the original plans? Thank you very much, Councillor. Unlike the other two developments, Innes Gardens doesn't have a specific play area attached to that area itself. So, they'll be using the main play area on Tilsley Road. While, obviously, there is an extension and bigger and brand-new equipment going into that play area, the emphasis is around, more for them, the emphasis is very much that the balconies are overlooking and the loss of amenity for the existing residents that are there at the moment. I think everybody welcomes the extension of the play area, and we should do even more to support young minds in the area. But, because this area doesn't specifically have a play area for themselves, they're using the bigger communal area in... It's not been the biggest issue that has come across with residents when I've met with them. Other questions? No. Well, thank you, Councillor Austin. As I said, well presented. Now, can we turn to the actual matter itself, and anyone want to question officers on any of the details? Oh, I beg your pardon. I beg your pardon. Thank you. Can we first of all have an overview of the application from Ms. Malloy before moving on to Councillor's questions? I beg your pardon. Go on. Thank you. I'll just do a brief overview of the application. Apologies. Apologies. Yay, there we go. New technology. New technology, don't you? Sorry. Sorry about that. Go on. Just in terms of the application, it relates to two sites, Innisf Gardens 1 and also Innisf Gardens 2, which can be seen on the presentation. Innisf Gardens 1 is at the western end of Innisf Garden, Innisf Gardens 2 has existing storage sheds and various other areas of storage. So, in terms of the actual layouts of the two proposals, we can see these here. And then, in terms of the kind of ground floor areas, in terms of Innisf Gardens 1, we've got here, we've got bike shed substations and various other elements to accommodate the new properties. And then, in terms of Innisf Gardens 2, we've then got a unit, a ground floor, and, again, various bike storage. Just some visuals, really, just to show the context. This is Innisf Gardens 1, so this is the western site, so we can kind of see the heights there, and we are within a mid-rise zone, so the, you know, the local plan does allow for buildings up to six stories, and we can kind of see the architecture there that's being proposed. And then, Innisf Gardens 2, again, a similar form to what's being proposed at Innisf Gardens 1. And this just is just to highlight some of the landscaping that's going to take place in and around the site. So, we've got additional planting and various other landscape improvements and changes there. And then, in terms of the central playgrounds within the estate, that is going to be also upgraded and enhanced. So, in summary, the proposal seeks the provision of 29 affordable units, all for social rent. And we've got 12 one-beds, 11 two-beds, 4 three-beds and 2 four-beds. Enhancements to the existing central playgrounds, some additional landscape and tree planting across the wider estate. And, as stated, it's within a mid-rise zone, so suitable for buildings up to six stories, and also sustainable, meeting the home quality mark, and also carbon reductions of 71%. Thank you. Thank you. We'll get to parking if a councillor's ask about it later. Councillor Gavindia, I think you want to. Thank you, sir. I mean, it's a good question, Ms. Malloy. In two of the three applications, there's a reference to protected legal species, legally protected species, rather. So, it doesn't say what they are, and it doesn't say, the report doesn't say what has happened about that protection, or whether they're needed to be protection. In the case of Innist Gardens, in fact, there appear to be no protected legal species in the area. So, I just want you to expand on what they are, what measures have been taken to safeguard them, and so on, and why this is missing from Innist, given that it's largely the same landscape, same tree cover, and so on. And just turning to the matter of parking, again, there is both, the reports talk about that in the event of the development happening, the new units will be excluded from any future CPZ. And again, there is lack of clarity in that that the housing department has its own estate parking control arrangements. There are adopted roads where there is no CPZ, although there may be one in the future. So, is it the intention to exclude new residents from a future CPZ, or is it the intention to exclude them from the existing estate-regulated parking? So, the reports are unclear, and they apply to several of the applications. So, it would be helpful to know. I imagine Mr. Tidley would have something to say about the parking, but Ms. Malloy, on the other issue. I think you're referring to the constraints in terms of the report. So, there's a general database that deals with ecology and things like that, and that will just flag up if there's any protected species within the locality. So, as part of that, a preliminary ecological assessment's been carried out, and that's identified nesting birds and bats and things like that. So, that has been reviewed by our ecologist, and also has requested kind of bat surveys and things like that, and has been working, you know, with us and also the applicant to make sure that anything which goes back, there will be, you know, ecological enhancements across the estate, bird boxes, bat boxes and things like that. But there was no evidence that there would be any harm to any protected species. Mr. Tidley, perhaps you can address both Councillor Govindia's points and the more general, I think it's fair to say, points that Councillor Austin made in his presentation. Hello, councillors, David Tidley, the transport strategy, well, the head of transport strategy. Before I do, councillor, I was just going to ask Miss Malloy if she wanted to say something about the parking, because I know she knows all about it anyway, and it was a question whether I should just add more at that point. Not really, just in terms of, you know, in terms of the parking, we understand obviously there is going to be a loss of parking across the three sites. However, there has been survey work, and I understand, you know, Councillor Austin's point about the survey data and some of the issues that he's raised with that. But from my understanding and from the comments from our transport officer, we're happy with the evidence provided. OK, OK. I'll add to that then. So, first of all, just to come back on the issue of surveys being undertaken in half term, I have to admit that was the first time I'd heard of that. But having just quickly checked the timetable, it did appear that the half term in 2023 was the 13th of February to the 17th of February, so these surveys were taken outside that period. So, we would be comfortable with the survey data that's been collected, notwithstanding that the data showed adequate levels of vacant space in any event. But just to take that a little step further, the surveys indicated for this particular development that there were 39 vacant spaces on the streets in the sort of middle of the night when most residents need to park near their homes. There are 1,500 provinces on these states. And just to also add that we would expect that 29 units, despite the fact that they would be refused CPZ permits for any future controlled parking zone, 29 extra residential units could generate about 10 cars on the basis of general home ownership in that area. And those could be, therefore, accommodated on the street. To take Councillor Gavindia's point, we would be excluding from a future controlled parking zone how the housing estate manages parking on the estate is largely a matter for them. I'm sure that they would clearly manage the arrangements as they see fit. The other point, I think, taking Councillor Austin's view about the potential unenforceability of a non-CPZ rule when there's no CPZ, if you like. So that is taken, I mean, that's a genuine concern. I think that clearly, if there is a problem or would become a problem in the local area, then the solution would be to consider the introduction of a controlled parking zone rather than to resist development. And that's generally been a position that's been held, certainly at appeals when we've had this particular issue. But even if the development generates cars, despite the fact that it would be excluded from a future CPZ, then on the basis of current car ownership levels in that area, we would expect those cars to be able to be accommodated on the street. Thank you. Thank you. Could I just, well, first of all, could I just point out to members of the public gallery that all the members of the committee are residents of Wandsworth, and they all live with parking in their own areas, and they all know the practicalities of it. Whatever your feelings are, these are the, this is the advice given to us, and that's what we're taking as the advice given. Now, who is the next? Councillor Appes, then Councillor Coakley, and then Councillor Govindia. Hello, I'm Councillor Appes, and I'm the Councillor in Shaftesbury and Queenstown ward, well, one of the three. Would you care to start again? Yeah, I wanted to talk a bit about the Met Police's findings, because they mention about the importance of CCTV. I know that we'll be looking at, you hopefully will be looking at what more you could do that the residents would like to see in that area, and that's really critical. I mean, people's homes are just so important to them, it's really important that the area is, you know, a good place to live. And when I visited the area and spoke to residents, one of the issues which cropped up was about the fact that there were motorbikes driving into the Innist Gardens area, and that was making people feel very unsafe. And I see the police have recommended CCTV, and I want to know if there's been discussions with residents about that, if we're looking at those kinds of developments, and if not, how that can be taken forward. Thank you. Thank you. Just in terms of the application, the applicant has met with the Met Police, are secure by design, consultee, so there has been discussions on that, and that detail is within the design and access statement. In terms of CCTV, there is condition 23, which asks the details of CCTV under the lighting condition, so that will be considered as part of any condition. Okay, Councillor Coakley. Thank you, Chair. Councillor Coakley for St. Mary's Ward. Councillor Austin had mentioned the survey data for the amount of road trips that was taken from 2011, and they were saying that the Council should have been using the 2021 data, and I didn't see an explicit response to that in the report, so I was wondering if David or any officers had some reasoning behind that, and why they're still comfortable with the survey as it is. Mr. Tiddy? Thank you, Chair. The 2011 census data indicates that 20% of journeys to work are undertaken by car. That number hasn't changed dramatically in the 10 years since, but clearly for the purpose of having a travel plan and looking at how the new residents would move around the area and the extent to which they change their behaviour between public transport and vehicles, it clearly would make sense to use the latest census data as the base, but it doesn't really change the recommendation in the paper. Councillor Govindia. Thank you, Chair. Just going back to the issue of parking, there's a reference here to two parking spaces for disabled people, one per each of the two blocks in Innes Gardens. Is that considered to be adequate? Because my understanding, certainly of knowing some disabled people, is that almost anyone who owns a car and is a disabled person would like a parking space and would like it quite close to their home so that they don't have to wheel themselves there or go unaided over a longer distance. And the second point I'd make about parking capacity that Mr. Tiddy earlier mentioned is that it's all very well that within a two-mile radius there were 39 car spaces available, but actually ask a young lady coming home late at night or wanting to walk a long distance back from an available car place to a home. It's just not right. This area isn't a particularly safe one at night. And so this theoretical idea that there are spaces is not the same as what residents perceive to be available. Sorry. I don't mean this in a... Those are interesting remarks which any resident in Wandsworth would make. I'm not ignoring them, but was there a question as well? So the planning question would be that is it right to, in a sense, judge availability of space over a much wider area than what residents perceive to be their neighbourhood? The resident's estate is their neighbourhood and the survey has taken a much larger area to come to the figures. I don't think you'll find that in... I don't think you'll find that in the planning regulations and I think we all can understand that as an issue, right or wrong, in our own streets, in our own blocks of flats, wherever we live in Wandsworth. There are places like it everywhere in the borough. Councillor Owens and Councillor Justin. There is an answer that... The answer about disabled persons has not been answered specifically. It's a specific question. That's what I... That was... I did ask whether you had a specific question. The second one was a matter of political opinion, which we can all have. And I know plenty of people who say, parking's too far from my place. It is not a technical decision, but the first one is certainly a technical decision. What was the disability one? I can deal with that. So the levels of disabled parking that are being provided with the application are considered to be compliant with policy. I think the slightly different or added comment I would make is that any disabled person would almost certainly receive sort of preferential benefit from the housing department. Plus, in addition to that, any blue badge holder who lives in the site, they're excluded from the exclusion, if you see what I mean. So a blue badge holder is always permitted to park on the street outside, irrespective of any control parking restriction that might be introduced in the future. Councillor Owens. Thank you. I'm Councillor Owens, Northcote Ward. I just want to pick up a bit on what Councillor Gavindia said earlier to Councillor Austin, and that relates to the impact for officers, the question on children, the impact on children of all of this. Obviously, we've had a lot of correspondence, particularly about the health risks, exposure to hazardous materials, and the consequences of that, the safety risks with increases of accidents potentially, and the restricted areas that impact on children, their disruption to routine and interference with their learning. But more importantly, with the playground being closed during the construction period, the Tiresley Road playground, there'll be a reduction in outdoor play opportunities. What will be available for children during this time? Thank you. Can I... Whilst I'm sure an officer will have an answer, or an answer that I hope you find satisfactory, actual disturbance during work is not in the law a planning reason. Otherwise, all development will stop everywhere, which obviously wouldn't be acceptable to any government. So, to make that point. But in terms of... Do we have any practical, temporary solutions in terms of anything lost? Ms Malloy? Just in terms of the kind of construction and the disturbance, obviously, this happens on the majority of sites. There will be disturbance, you know, but there is going to be a construction management plan, which would then, you know, manage that. There will be hours of operation in terms of working hours, in terms of, you know, the normal parameters that we normally... There'll be the usual safety hoardings and various safety elements as well. This is obviously a council-owned scheme, so there is that level of, you know, kind of more discussions that can take place with the applicant, and we have flagged this up in terms of the representations that have been received. In terms of the kind of play space and bringing that forward, that the condition requires it to come forward prior to occupation of the new units, so there will be a period of time where that work will be undergoing. So, we, you know, again, we've raised this with the applicant, and it may be something that can be considered, but we can't do that under the planning process. OK. Councillor Justin, Councillor Boswell, Councillor Humphreys. Mark Justin, the councillor for Nine Elms. The councillors at the beginning of this meeting brought up what I thought was a very good point about the timing of this traffic survey, and I don't think it's been properly answered. I mean, for example, in the 1960s, Lord Beeching axed all the railways in Devon and Cornwall, and it turns out that he did his survey in the winter when there were no tourists. So, it is actually crucial when you did this survey. I live in Albert Bridge Road. I can tell what month it is by the level of my ease of parking. So, if you did it in a certain period, it would make the parking look a lot easier than if you did it in another period. So, I think that because that hasn't been correctly done or you haven't answered their question, why didn't you do it in the correct period? It makes a huge difference. With respect, Councillor Justin, I don't think you can say it was improperly done. First of all, Mr Tiddly proved that it was not during the school holiday period. And second, February is hardly... Well, in my experience, you've got the experience as well, I've got experience far from being the least busy month of the year. Almost any time of the year from when it's more like summer, there's in some ways less. So, that's just a matter of opinion. Councillor Boswell. Councillor... Councillor Boswell. Councillor Sheila Boswell, Tooting-Beckward. Going back to play, I wanted to ask a question around that and children. The new playground that's going to be there looks very impressive and it's obviously an improvement and the equipment's going to be great as well. But thinking of the reality of families' lives is some distance from homes. And I noticed in the report that you talk about informal play in the courtyards. Just from a totally practical point of view, for parents to be able to keep an eye on their children or at least have them nearby rather than going all the way to the playground, however great it's going to be. So, informal play in the courtyards, if that could be developed, if we could hear a bit more about what that could be. And that's also relevant to Councillor Owen's question about during the time of construction when, of course, the playground, the children won't have access to a playground, if there could be informal play in the courtyards, could we hear more about that? Councillor, Miss Malloy, any comment? Just in terms of, you know, there's various, across all three applications, there's various, you know... Are you talking about Innist Gardens? Just in terms of, across all three, there is various pockets of play space. So, in terms of Innist Gardens, there is linked to this, the main playground, which again will be improved and there's been, you know, work done with local children and things to kind of design that space. and then there will also be some more kind of informal, you know, informal space within those courtyards as well. There is no place! Thank you. It's just doorstep play. Public gallery. Can I say, can I say, I know the Ackroydon reasonably well. We all... Ash Burton, sorry. Ash, I get the two confused. But I know it reasonably well and there is no question that it's an extremely nice estate and many of us only wish that estates in our own areas were good. And we understand your great concern. We, however, are in a situation where there's a duty on us to provide housing for the homeless. We're trying to consider this in a quasi-judicial sense. That means it has the rules of a law court in some ways. I don't want to overemphasise that we do. And therefore, you can heckle as much as you like, but actually we're going to carry on and just try and do our best to make sure the estate is as good in the future as it is now. So if we can just proceed as we were, I think it may have been Councillor Goldley, but I may have lost... No? Councillor Humphrey, so beg your pardon. No problem. Thank you, Chair. There's a lot of references in the report at various places to the construction management plan, as Ms Malloy has already referred to, and also travel plans that aren't bottomed out and finalised yet. And obviously we've heard tonight, let alone in our previous correspondence with residents, there's a lot of concern about all these areas. I just wanted to ask how much engagement there will be with the residents with those discussions going forward. Because as we all understand, they're crucial to making this work and for the residents that live there now, let alone any future residents, to making it successful development. So could I ask what level of engagement and when that engagement will be with residents in both of those areas, the construction management plan, and also with the details of the travel plan coming forward? Just in terms of planning conditions, it's normally a process which we don't consult on. That's normal across. However, given that it is a council scheme, I'm sure that the applicant is able to liaise with neighbours once they've appointed a contractor. So once a contractor is appointed, if permission is granted, then that will be the opportunity for discussions with neighbours and things like that about what are the issues throughout construction. Thank you. That's helpful. But I think there's a degree of mistrust there, I say, from the residents that the council is going to fulfil that. So I don't... For the reassurance of those residents, I don't think it's acceptable at this stage for us to have to say that the applicant's aware of that. I'd like to ask you if this is to go forward, we could put an informative on to make sure it's formalised in the agreement that the applicant will have those consultations with the residents because it's a key part of what's going to address their concerns. Just in terms of... I would flag up in terms of since the application has been in, there's been a big piece of engagement work that's going on in terms of the Ashburton more generally, not in relation to the planning applications, but broader, more... So, regardless of everyone's view, can I ask technically Mr Calder, in giving planning permission, if we do so, do we have... Can we ask for a view from the applicant about the amount of consultation in future, and can we do it as an informative or what? My suggestion, thank you, Chair, would be, as Councillor Humphries has said, to put an informative on it, and we'll also write to the director to ensure that there's suitable engagement. I know that there, as Cathy Malloy has mentioned, there is now engagement officers being brought in, and they are trying to encourage and find out more information about it, so there's certainly an area that housing colleagues will look at in detail, but I will ensure that we've got an informative and write to them directly to cover that. Thank you. Thank you, Mr Calder. I've got one other smaller point to be made, Councillor. Yeah, and to refer that to the travel plan as well, by the way, not just for the construction management plan, travel plan as well. On a completely different matter, Councillor Austin referred in his presentation to another issue that is obviously of significant concern to the residents, and that's about the loss of storage space. And we had a case last month, I think it was Tolland Square, wasn't it, where we had reprovision of storage space specifically to address those concerns of the residents on that estate, and I just wanted to bottom out why we haven't got that in place on this thing, because obviously it's an issue, particularly recently with the tighter regulation from housing, rightly on fire regulations about not being able to keep stuff in the stairwells and things like that, so we understand the need to keep those stairwells free, but by default therefore it has to be some kind of recompense to the residents to make sure they've got someone where they can put their stuff. Just in terms of this application, the replacement of storage didn't form part of the application, so we are assessing it in terms of planning policy, and we do not have a planning policy that protects or requires the replacement of storage sheds. So it is a case-by-case basis, it's dependent on... Whoever it is, other people in the public gallery might be interested in hearing the answer, and I certainly am, and so are the members of this committee. So do continue, Ms Malloy. So in terms of it is a case-by-case basis, however, we have raised the concerns with the applicant, again, who is, you know, within the council, and going back to the, you know, the engagement officers and things like that, if this is an issue on the estate, that is, you know, where it can be raised for the replacement, but from a planning point of view, it would need permission in its own right, given, you know, the size of... that it would need, so it's not something we could condition under this because we haven't made that assessment and it didn't form part of the application, and in terms of the planning policy, there is no basis to request that on this one, but we have raised it with the applicant, so they're fully aware of the feeling of that. Thank you, Ms Malloy, that's helpful. So could I ask again, and I don't know if Mr Calder's the right one to answer this, that there's no policy basis to put a condition on, but again, is it not possible to put an informative on to raise it, flag it up as an issue of serious concern to residents that needs addressing? So we need to formalise in some way that registration of discontent with what's being proposed tonight, and there is some recourse to a remedy at some point in the future, even if it's not for this application. As you know, Councillor Humphreys, whether storage space or not is included, it's hardly a planning matter, and it's not, let me finish, let me finish, and it's hardly something that you can blame the planning committee for one way or another. It's down to the applicants, and the applicants will no doubt hear about this. We know in a similar application elsewhere they've done their best to improve storage facilities. If the residents can persuade their landlord, in some sense, their freeholder, to provide storage spaces, fair enough, but that is not part of this planning application. Unfortunately or fortunately, it is not. So, Councillor White. Hi. Can I ask a couple of questions about the design? I've already told people who I am. About the design review panel, a couple of findings. One was about the community centre being relocated, and the other one was about the top floor, I think, of IG2, and Haywood Gardens. They were too large and dominant. Could you give comments about that, please? Thank you, Councillor. In terms of the DRP took place in June 2023, so in terms of the feedback received from the DRP, the scheme was amended. So in terms of the kind of design of IG2, that was amended amended in response to some of those comments. In relation to the community building, there was a discussion at the design review panel about incorporating that into the shop, the shops which are in the middle of the estate. However, we've looked at that, and also the applicant, the housing team, have also looked at that, but the majority of those shops are on long leases. So they're not really available for that use. However, there is the existing kind of community use down there, the yard. So I think that's a kind of social enterprise which runs food banks and various things like that. So there is a community element there already, and there may be an opportunity for one of the units to come available, but that's not formalised. The community centre has nothing to do with inner sky. They're already discussing inner sky. Yes. Sorry, this is... The answer that you've got from Ms Malloy is the answer she gave, and that's not for... Have you finished, Ms Malloy? Yeah, it was just because the DRP, the design review panel, covered all units, all three schemes. I might say I went to the DRP, and that might sound suspicious. It is not. I only go on the condition that I keep quiet and don't say a word and purely observe part of the rules of the DRP. And on the whole, the review panel were very complimentary about this application and thought it chimed well with the estate as a whole. I had one or two details that one or two people have picked up, but it was very complimentary and thought it was an extremely good way of tackling the housing shortage we've got here. But now, we've given this a pretty good go and people are coming back in for second bites and I'm very loathe to stop second bites, but let's make sure the new stuff. Council of India. Thank you. On page 201, there's a reference to the Employment Development Officer and a contribution of $30,000 on this. is there any proposal that this and the other applications about the estate will generate job opportunities for people on the estate because the reports are silent about it and I would have thought that one of the things that the council has tried to do wherever it's done, estate regen or estate developments, is to find job opportunities. So where is this $30,000 going for? Why don't the other applications have similar contributions to make and so on? And my just point on the storage space would be just a question to the planning officers whether storage space is part of the space standards required for units. It would be useful to just know that. Just in terms of the employment contribution, it's just set out within the planning obligations SPD so if it's under a threshold, I think it's 50 units but I'll just confirm that, it's a financial contribution. If it's anything above that then it's an employment plan basically which then the developer and our employment team and work match, they work together in terms of coming together and doing a plan together but if a scheme is under that threshold then it is just a contribution which then our employment team will then use within the borough. Okay. And just in terms of the storage, the only requirement for storage is internal storage so that's set out in the technical housing standards so that would be in relation to the new units. Councillor Habs, I beg your pardon, Councillor Habs. Thank you. I think it was in Hayward Gardens I met a resident who was desperate to downsize from their current property because I think they were playing bedroom tax etc. Local authority resident. Would it be possible from someone from one of the adjacent kind of blocks as part of this wider group to downsize into say Innisfarden from Hayward Gardens for example or is it just restricted to those sites? My understanding is there's a local lettings plan so people within the estate are able to put themselves forward to downsize or if they're over occupying to put themselves on a waiting list and that will be allocated by the housing team and the housing department which is separate to the housing and regeneration department. So there is within the section one or the unilateral undertaking there would be a local letting plan which would set all that out. My understanding is that that is the procedure for these council homes. Ms Malloy I should have possibly jumped in thank you but we have some people from the housing department who might be able to answer that specifically. I do know what the local lettings plan is has it been agreed yet? Can you answer that question? Chair, no I wouldn't be able to add much more than what Cathy has already explained that there will be a local lettings plan in place as things progress. I can't provide more detail. So with luck there are so many competing demands on council housing who knows but the potential is there for people to downsize if that's the right or possibly even upsize though it's unlikely in the new buildings if they go ahead? Yes and that's a priority for the housing department. Okay Councillor Humphreys and I'm then going to draw it to conclusion. Thank you chair for letting me in under the wire. It's a separate point again and again it's something that was raised last time at committee on the previous application on Tolland Square but I was trying to find it relevant to that I'm thinking about future proofing the estates and provisions for where we're going ahead rather than what's adequate now and on the things like the food recycling and bulky waste again I know these are things of concern to residents and I tried to find it in the report but forgive me I couldn't find it the references to how we're going to deal with that again when those things get rolled out across the borough more widely is there a provision in this application to accommodate the food recycling and also bulky waste which is always an issue on the estates and somewhere where that's going to go and we don't want to become an issue more of an issue. Just in terms of the refuse there is space within the two buildings to accommodate the waste in terms of the bulky waste that's something that our waste manager has raised and that's within the consultation comments so we have put on a condition to secure further details of that so that would that would be you know that would come forward at a later stage so that's condition 27. That's condition 27 also included we're looking at somewhere to put bulky storage somewhere to put any kind of storage for residents because even if it's not a policy it would be something that residents would appreciate. Thank you Mr Malloy now I'm happy to go straight to a vote if a vote is required otherwise the recommendation is the recommendation from the planning officers that this application should be approved is that agreed? The vote we need a vote those in favour please show those against that application is passed by six votes to four we move on to the next application which is I remind myself it's called the Hayward Gardens isn't it the next one and that's where Councillor Sutter and Anne Bash are going to give a presentation we've had the general introductory remarks Ms Malloy so just waiting for I'm quite happy to take it alphabetically and if that's okay Councillor Anne Bash well of course we defer to the wounded amongst us don't we the depth of feeling for residents living in Hayward Gardens is profound despite three consultations many people many many people feel that the council just hasn't listened nor changed the plans for the proposed two buildings HG1 and HG2 the concerns many residents have expressed to me include massing loss of privacy loss of light the enclosed design of the fourth side of the rectangle and the loss of open space I'll do my best to cover them in two and a half minutes chair page 264 para 5.3 talks about part F of LP4 and it says respect the width scale and proportion of adjacent buildings this is to do with massing the proposed new buildings are higher over three metres higher and more than twice as wide compared with the existing buildings many local people feel this does not respect the proportions of the existing buildings and the design review panel said in June 23 appears to support this view they say on page 255 however how the building tops are designed is critical and we do not think the Innisf Gardens IG1 or Haywood Gardens are successful as they feel too large and dominant now loss of privacy the summary here on overlooking para 11.7 says overall on balance given the distances orientation and location of the balconies and degree of overlooking has been found acceptable the degree of additional impact is not considered substantial clearly this confirms that there is some negative impact loss of daylight and sunlight pages 267 to 271 gives a reduction in the visible sky across many buildings with losses of VCS ratings from 32% through to 45% in paras 2.9 to 2.31 para 9.44 it says a number of isolated windows could not achieve the BRE guidance further many residents are concerned about the overshadowing of the community gardens on the north side of Hayward Gardens covered in 9.41 this important central amenity will be badly impacted clearly there are significant losses of sunlight and daylight loss of open space page 262 para 2.2 8% loss of space para 2.5 says whilst the loss of open space would be contrary to policy LP53 and it goes on the report justifies this by talking about planning balance that's the loss of open space is considered acceptable in this instance is what it says so clearly another detriment in conclusion of course we need more affordable housing but these proposals go too far several breaches of the planning guidance and detriment for existing local residents I hope the committee will reject the application and the council will come back with a more acceptable development proposal thank you thank you councillor ambash councillor sutters I'll try and sub this back as I'm going through because I don't want to repeat everything that my colleague has said I speak on behalf of Hayward Gardens again who have strongly resisted these proposals and I would say that the council has aggressively pursued them the complaints are genuine and they're well thought through residents value the existing environment this is not necessarily about the number of flats and increased density it is about the buildings themselves and inappropriate building placement loss of immunity consultation began very very late and positioning was fixed meaning residents had only limited input into peripheral issues and I really think that's a big issue here it's also noteworthy that the officers report employs unverified CGI's this does not evoke trust nor aid understanding some of them I looked at actually show Hayward Gardens as quite a wide carriageway and in fact it's a narrow cul-de-sac and that's not good either support consultants reports seem to be after the fact and by styling the area as urban rather than suburban there is a shift in their conclusions but it is hard to imagine why you would call this an urban area if you doubt the reports before you you really do have to ask questions and maybe reject this application Kaplan design HG1 and 2 upset the original design narrative and changed the perception of space and outlook tacking blocky overly modelled building form of varying height to the clean lines of the original building footprints risks a disconnect in both design and material integration and this was not really fully resolved in the application I did look for it a few times also cycle storage and bikes at ground floor level this is just not something that should be done in 2024 and it's not good to walk across in the frontage for women community facilities are limited to only one oddly placed community hall and I'm not really sure why it is where it is the relocated space from the central area has lost its safeguards offered by passive surveillance and overlooking and lots of residents object to the resiting as my colleague said the daylight and sunlight studies flag some unfortunate VSC losses and the FTP and the transport assessments misrepresent adjacencies demographics and ease of access to facilities the area is PTL too residents need their vans and cars for work and for household management the fall in provision has caused anger and re-provision should be looked at added to this local buses are now infrequent and it is a very head fit of household who shops on foot or cycles six to eight kilometres as the report tells us Mr. Tiddley Anyway finally internal storage which has been brought up when Hayward Gardens was built adequate internal storage was not an issue was never an issue in the old days it was always external storage so the flats that exist there rely upon extra storage for overspel the lot lockups will have an effect on residents lives and should be replaced it's fine saying the new flats will do better but we should be looking after our existing residents thank you councillor sutters I will be in trouble with the whip because I allowed you both to have about a minute extra so but well done between the two of you obviously a very important matter to you and indeed to people in the public gallery and indeed us because as we said before it's a very fine estate and we don't want to change that Ms Molloy any comments on this particular application sorry just in terms of the neighbouring amenity point and the daylight and sunlight report the findings are fully set out within the officer report and there is some isolated windows which do have more of an impact however these are secondary windows and the full justification as I say in terms of each of the windows is fully set out in the officer report and also the daylight and sunlight report which has been submitted with the application in terms of the design of the proposal this has gone through quite a lot of pre-app discussions it's gone through the design review panel it's gone to our design colleagues internally who are broadly supportive of the architecture and the form in terms of there is going to be a change these are buildings infilling areas within the estate so I think we've made it quite clear in the report that there will be an impact however on balance and when you review the public benefits officers are of the view that this is acceptable in terms of the kind of design the bulk and the massing this has been reduced towards the rear of the building to again reduce that impact on surrounding properties so I think we thank you can I just ask you to perhaps to cease being a planner for a moment I'm just an ordinary person when I think I know what he means but you know for everyone else's benefit when Councillor Ambash talks about some technical VSH or whatever it was reducing from 25 to 42% I can't remember the exact figures you just now said secondary rooms or some words like that can you explain in the type of rooms what are we talking about lavatories kitchens halls something that makes if you know what I mean and what that means roughly speaking just in terms of some of the areas where it shows more of an impact often these rooms have secondary another source of light so some of the windows and again some of the areas are kind of in trying to explain it just in terms of you know isolated windows which are almost set either under balconies or in isolated corners various things like that so there's a lot of windows surrounding the development which has been tested but some of them again have other sources of light and also are bedroom windows rather than main habitable rooms and things like that so overall the daylight and sunlight report has concluded that for the majority of the windows the level of daylight and sunlight is acceptable okay thank you councillor apps yeah i'd like councillor apps i'd like to ask a question to councillor ambash if i may so i am allowed to right we we obviously heard your concerns loud and clear i have to say i have to put it in balance with when i look at these proposals when i look at proposals regularly here there is often not all windows meet say that you know not all planning meets all of the kind of daylight or other grounds and we have to put that in balance what so obviously i'm weighing that up but what is the aspect that most concerns you overall about this development apologies for not giving an opportunity question for those should have said i think the thing that most concerns the residents is the thing that most concerns me it's about the scale of the development it's about we have three sides with open space in the middle a lot of people sit in the open space young people but also elderly people too who don't want to go far from their house we're closing off is it the north side or the south side chair i sometimes get the line of haywood gardens so it's the words i started with on the massing the size of that fourth thing it's going from six stories down to five and the report says i don't understand all the technicalities it's more acceptable five is obviously a bit lower but the sixth floor with modern standards means the whole building is higher and kind of overlooking people so i've kind of talked to individuals who've said i'm worried i'll look out of my window and the people on the new side will look straight into my window i won't be able to go and sit out in the green space the playground is being moved that has some pluses and minuses but some children may have to go a bit further to a much better playground so there are some benefits in terms of the playground but it's not going to be quite so local but it's the massing overall that's the most concerning issue thank you councillor i'm sorry go back to any comments questions i do beg your pardon i didn't allow time but if anyone wants to ask questions of either of the councillors then let's take those first before going on to the technical planning questions councillor thank you both councillors such as an ambassador eloquent in representing their local residence views the question I have for both of them and certainly the local member of parliament's views also recorded in here that given how strongly you feel and given how strongly local residents feel and given how strongly the local member of parliament feels what have you done to ensure that the applicant and the appropriate cabinet member has adequately heard and reflected those views in revising the scheme spoken to him extensively tried to argue our points told him how residents feel he has been up to Ashburton he won't tell us the dates on when he's coming so we miss those meetings but I have sought councillor Dickerdom come out deliberately because I am not afraid to face people one to one on something as important as this to my residents councillor Ambash I too have had informal meetings both with councillor Dickerdom and the leader of the council and one of them with the member of parliament to explain the depth of feeling about the consultation and one of the problems was the first consultation got off on a really bad start and so I understand people were a bit sceptical they got the invitation to come to the consultation in Granagh's school the week after the consultation had happened because there was a postage delivery problem but I've been at all the consultations and I've encouraged councillor Dickerdom to come to the consultations and I think he's been to two of the three consultations if not all three yes but I think just to say I'm not absolutely certain of this but I think that councillor Dickerdom would say he'd been to all three I mean I think but go on it's a bit difficult if we're asked the question straight out we have to give a straight answer so I'm sorry I owe him no disrespect and I think he really does believe in the schemes but by the time that first consultation was held the building footprints were set that's my point it was never a real consultation and we've managed to make no headway since I think there's no doubt that everyone understands as I said before it's a very attractive estate there's no doubt everyone understands the strength of feeling about it particularly those locally we're trying to look at it from a planning point of view and given the advice we've got so just remember that any questions from members sorry have we finished with the thank you councillor Coakley thank you chair just based on the informatives that we had for the last application I'm just asking whether we it's appropriate to have the same ones for this application if it is approved as well and also as an informative mention especially councillor ambasher's written statement about the community centre if we could maybe also an informative to encourage the council to really look at that central area and if there are more opportunities to sort of develop the centre community space there if they are to do so so you're not sure I heard all of that but you're asking for the informatives about building construction plans those kind of informatives apply to this application as well I'm sure that's true is it not yeah if we take it as read that those informatives will be on all three we're all three to get consent and I and and then also specifically with this one there was saying how the community centre was maybe not in such an appropriate place and while we are going ahead with the community centre in that place if also the central areas I think it was Tildesley and so the informative to encourage the applicant to sort of keep an eye on that area and if there are more opportunities to develop this sense of community in that area then I think that would be really appreciated by the residents I think I wonder whether anyone from the department can confirm this the applicants have been trying to consider whether the community centres should be anywhere near what the so-called shopping area have they not but there are problems with it is that right that's correct in terms of the leases so there's long leases on the shops so in terms of also just from a planning point of view it's not within the red line site so it's not something we could put an informative on but it is something that the the applicant is aware of and you know again looking into but we can't secure it under this application so hopefully this might be room for movement councillor apps thank you I've got a couple of questions one relates to the trees and landscaping so obviously it's regrettable that some of the trees would need to be removed but there are a number of trees being transported and relocated what steps are being taken to make sure that those trees are safeguarded what measures are taken to make sure that during construction the trees aren't damaged or damaged in the future and just on the issue of storage at Hayward Gardens as well I wanted to ask about what the visual appearance is of the storage and I can't actually visualise it I can remember the garages at Innist Gardens but I can visualise those but I can't visualise if you've got any if there's any kind of pictures or anything that would be useful or if you could describe it I'm just very conscious that in a development in my own ward in Gideon Road there were some garages that were used for storage they were sort of undersized for full cars so primarily used for storage and I guess you get used to things so they're just always part of the visual landscape but they actually looked a bit ropey to be honest and when now that they've been replaced with smaller storage units which are considerably smaller I have to say so it's a compromise for residents but that it's a better look in the estate and I wondered if there might be a way that there could be some new storage introduced which would be a help but also that we could make sure that was in keeping with the overall design as well if that's possible but I know that can't be a I know it probably can't be a planning requirement but I'd be interested to know if housing had looked at that at all any comment sorry I was just I was just going to have a street view up just in terms of the trees and landscaping there is a category B tree going and also some category C and U trees that are going however in terms of replacement we are you know we've got 13 trees planted at HG1 and then another another 11 at HG2 and in terms of we're looking at all three sites together we would be looking at 69 trees being planted and then in terms of the conditions there would be there is conditions on kind of tree protection and landscaping details as well okay thank you Councillor White hi just a couple of questions one around the design review panel again I wonder if anyone could comment on the second point of the sustainability section about passive house principles these homes already reaching quite high standards but the design review panelists said that could that we reach a higher standard and also around active travel the same same point really could we improve on what we've got just in terms of the design review panel obviously that was undertaken in 2023 so there was a you know a period of time where the plans evolved and things moved on in terms of sustainability and we got more information about that so again in terms of our policy we require either passive house or home quality mark so this scheme is achieving home quality mark which is in accordance with our policy requirements and also in terms of carbon emissions very sustainable as well in terms of I think it's either 70 or 71 percent carbon reduction so these are good energy efficient buildings in terms of active travel there's obviously going to be cycle storage there will be travel plans as well and in terms of some of the other measures I think we have under the union unilateral undertaking again some additional things so car club so memberships to car clubs and things like that sorry around car clubs is there parking for the car clubs on the estate not on the estate no no and I think that has been investigated but it's quite difficult to do that on council estates as far as I'm aware and also can I ask one more question especially if you remember that people want to hear so yeah okay in other words speak up just a bit or microphone nearer you one or the other it's the first time anyone said that to me actually on the fire safety as well about the sprinklers are they are they in the homes or on the in the communal areas sprinklers I'd have to check the fire report I assume both but they this the fire statement would have been reviewed by an independent third party so it will meet all the relevant fire safety regulations but I'd have to confirm with in terms of where they are but I'll have a look okay can I can I just as a matter of interest point out that Fleur Anderson MP who's been quoted quite a bit this evening one way or another also said and I want I'm in the negative the curses of concern she certainly comments on but she also says she welcomes the council's effort to support the delivery of more homes for local people and know many families who want to live in these new flats and that the plans for the Ashburton estate started under the previous administration here and have been revised under the current administration that's obviously an indication of the expectations of government in terms of what we need to provide for housing in the borough so this is not being done for fun but because we recognise a desperate need for affordable housing in the borough we want to make sure that this very nice estate is kept as very nice as possible and that these applications are as good as possible and I again was as I said earlier the review panel and everyone there thought it was very good councillor Humphreys thank you chair just a little correction there with all respect to our MP in Putney she's actually incorrect on that this particular scheme sorry I just didn't hear what you said I said just as a matter of fact it's not correct the assumption from the MP that this scheme was originated under the previous administration just as a matter of fact rather than oh alright okay but anyway that's more than what I was actually going to say I do hope and I'm sure they are it would be very surprising if they weren't that the cabinet member and the director of housing are listening to this debate tonight because I think it's this is the council's another council's own application and I think it's evident from what we've heard tonight particularly and from the residents that the deeply flawed nature of the consultation and the whole approach to this from the beginning we all understand there's a need for housing and I think all the residents have said themselves they're not numerous and they understand there's a need for housing but if there was only some attempt at bringing the residents on board earlier I hope these lessons are being learnt by those people listening to make sure that when further applications come forward they'll bring more consultation with the residents in the right time earlier in the process to make sure that a scheme could be brought forward which may have in fact the support of the residents which is not what we're clearly seeing tonight and it's just as important for us to look after our existing residents as any future residents that might come forward in the process was that was that councillor justin putting his hand up as well no okay I did actually have a question which I haven't asked yet if you may be so bold what was the question we were talking earlier again quite often at length about the DRP and it's interesting in recent times we've had a lot more direct quotes and a lot more reference to the DRPs and details of what the reports actually said which is welcome I'm not criticising that at all I think it's really helpful to see what the DRP has said in more depth than we've had in the past I think that's a forward step but what would be nice to see in this report and in other reports coming towards us is a specific section in that after the reflection of what the DRP said on any changes that have been made as a result of what the DRP has said because at the moment we have to rummage all the way through it and try and find out there's a bit there and there's a bit there and just as a point for next time it would be helpful to have a little summary of and the resulting changes were x y and z just one moment it's not an actual requirement but it's something we've taken on board the government said you ought to do this right I just wanted to explain for people in the public gallery who must be wondering what on earth a DRP is the DRP is design review panel which the previous government and I congratulate them on it the previous government suggested local authorities should introduce not has to but should introduce and I think Wandsworth again credit to our predecessors was one of the first authorities to introduce it on a regular basis and the DRP is a selection of professionals by which I mean architects town planners surveyors perhaps surveyors landscape architects I've been to one or two and listened to them certainly ecologists people who know an awful lot about horticulture and about animals and birds and reptiles and all sorts of things that advises the council on what these applications are like so just to give a flavour of what a DRP might be does that I yep okay any other questions Councillor Covindia three different areas but just on the transport issue car clubs was mentioned I mean is it the idea that only new residents would have access to car clubs or would the old residents also benefit from the largesse of car club membership and secondly there's a reference about emergency vehicles and I think the local residents have always expressed concern that there are narrow roads in and around the estate emergency vehicles have difficulties because of parked cars and so on and in fact life would be made difficult for them now is that issue been addressed adequately and do we have comments from the emergency vehicle people in the blue light people saying they are happy with access into and out of the estate can I come back after Mr. Tidley's answer there's a couple of other things Mr. Tidley presumably the car clubs are just ordinary commercial car clubs anyone can join anywhere this is about us encouraging them in this particular area is that right there are a couple of issues here the first is that the new residents that move in would be presented with offers to encourage them to join a car club but at the same time anybody who lives locally may also of course wish to be encouraged to join the car club and colleagues are also considering through the access for all scheme to introduce discounts and offers that would also make that more attractive as well in terms of the emergency arrangements or the access arrangements as far as I'm aware the roads around the site would remain very much as they currently are and therefore there's no immediate or obvious identified need for any particular improvements but as part of the highway authorities task on a day to day basis is to consider assessments of highway safety and whether there's any additional need for single yellow lines here or double yellow lines there is a day to day task that we will clearly always be prepared to make on the on paragraph 13.5 it sort of says that only five of the units would comply with the external immunity standards I mean it's quite a significant number of units that will not comply I mean the the space standards and the paragraph on standards of accommodation is saying it's not good enough but we can live with it or they can live with it of course I mean it's quite a poor standard of accommodation that is being offered here and whether that is a feature of the design or the feature of cramming too many flats here I don't know but perhaps somebody could explain whether those space standards could have been better met by reducing the number of units just in terms of the standards the previous local plan required five square metres when these discussions and pre-app discussions were taking place that was the requirement at the time so the design was evolving around those standards when the new local plan came in in 2023 that increased the standards to 10 square metres now on flattered developments these often become at 10 square metres very oversized overly large and results in issues in terms of the flats below restricts light into those properties it also has implications on the design it can look very bulky heavy and also in terms of the London plan their requirement is actually five square metres with one square metre additional floor space for every additional occupant so we have acknowledged in the report that some of these do not meet the standards however given the amount of communal space across the estate and all the various improvements to the play space that on balance it's acceptable any other questions Councillor Coakley thank you chair so I saw in this particular application that there was a 10% reduction in the biodiversity and part of the justification for that was because of the offset gain in the others because I noticed there was a gain in the previous application as well as the Cortis Road application I was wondering if the officers had any statistics of on balance how much you know is there a sort of environmental improvement of the area from the free applications in terms of urban green and biodiversity because I feel like that's more useful to get a better picture of it I was intrigued by the accuracy of these statistics too I wonder how many butterflies or newts or whatever have been counted everywhere but can you give us some detail on that just in terms of the biodiversity net gain when these applications came in it wasn't compulsory or a requirement however the applicant has undertaken taken that and they've also done the urban greening factor which is a requirement of our local plan and also the London plan so in terms of the urban greening factor that will increase from 0.43 to 8.3 so there'll be an increase of that and also there will be a BNG is this for the specific application or for all three my question was more all three because I know this one has a biodiversity net loss of 10% and they said it was more than offset because of the gains elsewhere so I was wondering what the overall gain was from the applications together well there'll be an increase in overall kind of soft landscaping so there'll be 58 square metres additional landscaping often with the biodiversity net gain when you remove a tree that's what kind of almost reduces it and it's quite difficult to bring that up but the applicant has worked with our ecologist and our parks team and to really get the value back into these sites in terms of the type of planting green roofs various ecological enhancements and that will all be secured by condition so it has been quite a piece of work done on that and in terms of the Hayward Gardens in particular the ratio of tree planting is one to four so there's going to be quite a lot of additional landscaping across the estate generally thank you I'm going to take the vote on the recommendations in a moment but Councillor Humphreys last appreciate it chair thank you it's a separate point entirely but on this particular application out of the three this is obviously a very close neighbour of Arc Academy just over the road on the other side of the way and I wondered if is there any scope in this application to do some work collaboratively with school so whether that's in the nature of and it doesn't explicitly say but perhaps something we could add in so they're going to actually work with the school there might be opportunities for work experience for the children in the school over there and also there's a school street which is in operation at the school and that will have an impact on deliveries and such like at times of the day and I it's also the case which surprises me somewhat that talking about all the qualities of the estate the fact that it's across the road from one of the largest areas of open space in the borough which might mean the amount of open space in individual facts is perhaps less contentious than it might be in other places in the borough not mentioned nor mentioned the fact that we can all see it ten times in the next month or two in love actually continually being played on the TV any comment about that Ms. Malloy or perhaps that's just in terms of again just going back to the new engagement and community engagement officers that have been appointed and I know they're doing quite a lot of work locally within the estate and my understanding is they are going to be talking to local schools okay thank you let's take the recommendations those in favor of the application as it stands with the informatives as already agreed those against thank you thank you councillor sutters ambush can we move on to the next one which is back to I think councillor austin on sorry the decision was approved by recommendation was approved by six votes to four okay I beg your pardon if that wasn't clear but councillor austin we're on to the next one court is road colleagues like the proverbial pad penny I'm back I'd like to thank the chair once again for his indulgence last night the leader tabled a motion about compassionate Christmas and it was it is certainly not a compassionate or merry Christmas for the residents of the Ashburton estate this year my residents they understand that we need to provide more social and affordable homes we need family homes there are no family homes in this application not one the argument put forward is that building one and two bedroom flats will allow those who want smaller homes to downsize into thereby freeing up larger homes for families in need to answer to answer councillor Aps's point there are only 20 people in West Putney according to the council's own stats who are looking to downsize currently the biggest single housing issue in Wandsworth for those in social housing is overcrowding though we can probably add being ignored to that as of this evening I work in housing I find this approach so frustrating because with a bit of care and thought we could have given families with two and three children a wonderful new home to call their own instead the administration is playing a numbers game of rackham and stackham I don't care what they are just get us over the thousand homes line I know this is novel for the Labour Party I know this is novel for the Labour Party to want to keep their election promises just ask any farmer or business owner recently but this obsession with the thousand unit number is doing real harm to local residents of course Courtice Road is further away from any public transport as it suffers from the worst connectivity of all the sites in the Ashburton development scheme the traffic survey having given a P-towel which barely scrapes the rating of 2 just and sits on the cusp of 1B residents in Innist Gardens and Hayward Gardens can at least cut through to Putney Heath more easily and at the risk of repeating myself conducting traffic surveys in school holidays where there is a primary where there is a primary directly opposite and the results were woefully inadequate and do not conform to the Lambeth method just to give context to this from the previous application the surveys took place the week before the half term six and five days from the start of the half term period ergo within the seven day buffer period it does not conform to the Lambeth method the new residents of this building will be heavily reliant on cars as it is the most inaccessible of all the sites and again over 50% of parking is not CPZ controlled a thriving wonderful primary school is within 200 metres of the site having a long period of construction work outside the classroom is going to cause huge disruption to the children and their learning environment environment the dust and emissions from construction and traffic and building work will mean the air quality in the area will stop classroom windows being opened and could cause the playground to be a no-go area altogether the noise from construction will have a detrimental effect on the learning environment of the children's mental health Cortis Road is narrow with cars parked down one side and it is heavily used adding a large number of construction vehicles into this environment next to the school is just an accident waiting to happen to me substantial private outside space is non-negotiable and this application does not even come close as some of you as as someone who lived through COVID in a property without outside space I know what it is like upgrading a playground next door and expanding another playground while commendable is not good compensation when you're only allowed out one hour a day and you're not allowed to be near anyone else none of these sites meet those standards and it is simply unacceptable the report says that all the trees on the site will be retained trees T4 to T9 are in such close proximity to the construction site roots will protrude into the construction area the tree canopy is going to cause issues making crane work impossible on site the stress put on the trees reduction in nutrient availability water drainage root damage and soil compaction will ultimately result in these trees dying and needing to be removed if this is the counts if this is the best the council can can do having spent over a third of a million pounds in fees then it isn't good a good reflection on the applicant who happens to also be the council I would urge you to save your colleagues from making a terrible mistake and vote against this application four minutes 47 seconds excellent on timing a little bit unfair I think on the approach I might ask you questions like exactly what kind of housing you do work in but that's a different matter any questions for the for the council council govindia sorry thank you councillor austin you mentioned the local primary school and the disturbance during construction period the paper talks about a construction logistics plan are you aware whether the applicant has engaged with the school in devising that logistics plan and if not do you think it should it's a matter of interest councillor austin seeing you know what's going to do sorry I didn't know if councillor apps wanted to say something first no I don't think I mean not not for councillor apps to refine councillor govindia's question the question was directed at you councillor austin I have reached out to the head teacher at granul primary I haven't had a direct answer as to whether they have been engaged but yes they should at least definitely be engaged it's a matter of interest councillor austin seeing you mentioned granul school many schools in the borough are having a slight problem to put it mildly with school roles because of the falling age of primary school population is granul by any chance I don't have the specific data for granul but I know in West Putney that there is currently about a 20% vacancy rate so there is a vacancy rate so in that sense at least refreshing our schools with new young blood these developments might be very helpful so there is a positive side councillor apps you wanted to ask a question well it was more a point of clarification actually which is the resident I spoke to who wanted to downsize had actually tried to downsize several years before through the council and had actually given up and I was encouraging her to renew her application and I imagine there's quite a few other people you know who maybe could be thinking about it maybe have had a bad experience in the past this was several years before by the way and you know they give up putting their lives on hold and they want to move forward and if they see the new housing then that becomes an opportunity but the other thing I'll just say is it's about the mix of housing for me overall you know it's yes we do need new family homes but we also need really good quality housing for single people as well so I wondered if you could reflect on that as I said earlier when it gets to and I slightly guilty myself of getting into technical questions which if you want to ask that question ask it to the officers I think any other questions specifically of councillor Austin no question miss Malloy you want to present keeping you busy this evening Kathy don't rush we've got to Chris has gone to take somebody out so you come is going to help you with the chair in we've got a break for a moment no and like it let's go on carry on carry on Miss Malloy there we are she can't because oh right oh right ah go go go go right go go right thank you just um this is quarters road so item item nine so in terms of the oh it's gone sorry that's it yeah so in terms of the two sites so this this area here is where the new building um is proposed and just in terms of the unit mix it's six two bed units and one one bed units um and then the existing playground here would be increased in size and and um upgraded just a a quick overview of the the kind of layouts and the the kind of scale and then also the ground floor there um so we've got a unit on the ground floor um and some ancillary um items such as again bike and and bin stores in terms of heights um we've got um five stories and then it drops down to to three stories um the reason for that was in terms of the daylight and sunlight analysis which um was showing up that it would just be too imposing on some of the the local residents and again just some idea of some additional landscaping so these are the the cedar trees over here which um council austin was referring to um and they have been looked at with our arboriculturist and also there's various conditions on about tree protection measures and again given that it is a council um own development we've got you know control about control over these trees um they will need to be pruned um but again in terms of the windows on that elevation facing the trees again they're secondary windows so they'll have um additional light from um other sources so that the pressure to prune um we don't think is going to be too much of a concern and then we've got over here the number six um which is where the new playground will be so again that's going to be increasing size and also um upgraded and then again the central playground in the middle of the estate thank you mr lloy i would have said personally most of the issues in general have been covered one way or another this evening but that don't want to close down completely um any comments questions people want to ask specifically council of india council owens um council humphries a question about the kind of overall child yield i mean i think councillor belton mentioned uh in a sense uh ability to refresh uh granada's falling school role what's the child yield projected over the three developments here and my second question in the area of that is what is the local lettings plan for the ashburton and does it what does it indicate by way of how many families are waiting to downsize and how many families are overcrowded and went wanting to live in something more spacious i think i'm sorry i think that's a question for the housing committee and very you've asked you are sorry council given you've asked that in the very broad sense i was once told one of the earlier committees on this council that it's all very well tony that's my first name for those who may not know it's all very well tony you cheered it all right but it's a bit of a govindia belton show and that's what it was and i've been trying to avoid that for years you raised councillor austin raised granada school i raised granada school you raised granada school back at me that we all know that granada school was a red herring now actually actually no let me finish let me finish by all means pursue all the statistics in the borough about the number of single units and double units all you're doing is trying to prove that my argument to councillor austin rather in fun about the school roles may or may not be accurate well i understand that accepted i withdraw that remark councillor miss milloy cannot possibly ask or answer all the details of housing would you care to keep it to something simple rather than broadening it as far as you want i have to say chum child yield is something that planners often talk about and therefore i just thought that the children child yield would have been something that would have been considered and then you went on to say and what are the statistics about etc etc etc no no and since we have somebody from the housing department who did talk about the local lettings plan so i just wondered if she had information at hand about what ashburton's locals lettings plan was i think that was answered earlier in a sense but do you have anything to add no just to reiterate really that there will be a local lettings plan in place um don't have any information beyond that right now and it is sort of these matters are actually decided through housing committee because they're quite detailed housing policy uh matters so yeah i can't really add more than that so who who else had was that the counts owens sorry i don't have the yield but i have the number of um bed bedrooms that overall on the three sites so it's 26 one beds 33 two beds 18 three beds and two four bed units so that i don't know the child yield on all on that but there is obviously um it is generating um a child yield which then links into the play space and those provisions are met so it's just a couple of questions um to follow up from councillor austin on the impact but also they appear to have a school street on um courtes terrace which is right beside a courtes road and i was i was wondering obviously you've been doing some work with them how that will be impacted as well as to the general impact of obviously all the disturbance thank you sorry mr tidley yeah thank you thank you chair um well as we've we've spoken quite a bit tonight about construction management plans and this development like the others would be subject to a six uh to a satisfactory construction management plan it's a it's very common in fact it's a normal requirement that construction traffic particularly larger construction traffic does not enter or access the area during school arrival and drop-off times that's just a standard requirement of uh of most um construction management plans um the other two main requirements i always look at is that there's there's always a um a contact detail contact detail so any residents or or or or communities or the community around any site can easily access information and the third bit is to ensure that there's something in there about maintaining safety of cyclists because heavy because construction traffic and cyclists generally don't don't don't mix um so so those are the sort of three areas um the school street would would almost certainly just continue to operate as it currently does um uh and as i said when when when the plan comes in we'll check against all those those requirements thanks can i suggest we go to a vote i mean we i think we all know the position generally okay no one's objecting those in favor of this application those against six four that application's passed now that concludes the ashburton sites there's one in akroydon um which i think should be possibly less contentious and then perhaps very quick break after that so if we can turn to um item 10 which is on page 337 um and is an application 337 is is uh for those in the public gallery or listening 300 is an application for six story building um with i can't remember exactly was it eight i can't remember the number of units um it's only five five units so miss m'alloy your turn again i think miss richards oh sorry miss richards i beg yours ellen can you introduce yourself thank you councillor my name is ellen richards i'm the team leader for the west area um as you've just summarized uh this is another application by the council for uh five one bed units um on a site in akroydon estate all of them will be social rent i think you might say it gives the corner and i can yeah there's a gap at the moment yeah it is good i'm looking for a word it should it should have a dome or a tower on top of it as a as a presence that's right um any any comments on it councillor vinder um question about um um how many dual aspects of reading through the standards uh paragraphs it looks like um uh not many and it was uh some of the bre guidelines not being possible and i think it's kind of dismissed it saying some of the rooms are not uh does it say uh they're not none of the habitable women during the development face within 90 degrees do you suck i mean almost suggests that the site is inappropriate i mean does that is that or not the case i mean it says the exception to this is a living room kitchen area of the proposed first floor floor which should receive daylight below the bre recommendation in the summer months which is exactly when you want sunlight coming in your house in the summer months i mean this just seems to be quite a a tight fit in an ill placed space and presumably it's in space it's not been built in because the original planners thought this is not the place to put anything mrs milloy any comment what's the question sorry it's missing sorry um i mean it is a corner site it is an infill location um it is going to be hard up against some kitchen windows again we've talked about the impact of windows and how we have to sort of gauge the impact on those windows based on what they're used for whether or not they're primary or secondary sources of light and so on in this case the the block and all of the floors all of the flats will be dual aspect um there are some windows kitchen windows to the neighboring blocks that would be affected but again it's a balance really of what extent um of impact that would be um in the round these are good this is these will provide good standard of accommodation in the report it says kitchen living room stroke kitchen area sorry can you direct me to where you're actually could we perhaps use the microphones then page 341 you say thank you councillor again it's it's an assessment of what has been submitted by the applicants in terms of the internal lighting standards for the proposed units um there are standards for what would what those should be in terms and i think it's talking about um luxe standards and so on and again it's it's a balance about how much internal lighting each of those rooms depending on their use and so on um whether or not they still they offer a adequate standard of accommodation which is the case here they're dual aspect there's a large balcony area um that brings in light as well from double doors i don't think you could look at these and consider them to be um substandard residential accommodation i'm sorry to pursue this i mean you know if it is not relevant then why do we say in a report that it is below standard if the standard doesn't matter why do we have standards i mean i appreciate that the conclusion would be that on balance it is still okay i'm not challenging that bit of it i'm just challenging whether this is a showstopper what you're saying is it's not the words here indicate this would be a very poor flat but we are okay with it because we're going not to live in it can i point out that these flats have the benefit of the luxury of bathrooms with the windows so you have natural light and natural ventilation when you're having a shower plus a beautiful balcony as my neighbour has just said some people have baths as well and a nice natural light okay where we we've got our views on natural light about on dual aspect rooms etc etc councillor humphries thank you chair um again it's something i've said before and it's something i'll continue to say and something i continue to find disappointing that when it's a council's own application we don't hit all the standards whatever standard that might be you know it's it's it's a it's an area that said it's suitable for five-story buildings in our own lp4 policy this is six stories you know the standards aren't quite as good as they should be but it's okay it's it's adequate and it's just it's very frustrating for us as planning members who want to see the best of the borough that we're getting applications inevitably there has to be a compromise to try and fit these things in but if it's compromised so much it's disappointing that when we as a committee have to challenge any applicant across the borough whether it's a private developer or the council's own if we ourselves don't meet the standards that we set it makes it very difficult to enforce it against anybody else i take this very hard when we're putting one story on part five stories which is for public housing when you and your colleagues approved i can't remember the 20 story block in my ward where the standard was i've just been asking i've just been asking um mr calder where he thinks it may have been eight or ten so to talk to me about what one when you imposed on my ward which really needs the open space um 20 odd stories i find it very hard to take this one story provided for people on the waiting list or wherever it is in an area where we need housing council apps council anything so it doesn't matter what council apps council gogley um yeah so i'd just like to um reiterate that view as well which is that this is a scheme which is ambitious for getting really good quality homes in place please don't interrupt me um okay come on boys and girls let's try and behave like adults come on council apps carry on okay uh so yeah so we it is important that it's really good to see a council being ambitious for building new affordable homes and that is what's driving this application we often have to look at on balance and this is another application we have to take on balance can i also draw attention to the biodiversity um i'm really pleased to see that this element of the design has been improved um and i hope you'll be consulting with residents to see if we can see further improvement in biodiversity across the estate and also looking at other improvements that residents would want to see as part of the development thank you councillor coakley uh councillor absent partly um capture the point i was going to make is just that um it is a decision on balance and i feel like this one is worthy of approval because of the benefits it brings and i don't really take the argument of setting a good precedent private developers want to build 100 social housing then i'm sure we could have a i'm sure the planning colleagues would have a conversation with them about the interior spaces like it's a bit of a moot point we really it's different thing there's different priorities we're trying to prioritize social housing and and so they're trade-offs but on balance it's still worth it the recommendation is to approve is agreed votes those in favor and those against right um sorry i beg your pardon yes that that application application ray um the ackroyd in the state was approved by six votes to four we will have a five minute break and i do mean strictly five minutes um before starting again thank you but don't worry i've come chris we are ready to go okay we'll resume um and that leaves uh council justin may or may not get in time i've got a few seconds or so i've had a request which i happy to acknowledge and just for the committee to know that we've had some public people in the public gallery for application number two which is battersea square and also for application number 11 which is a public house so-called 160 162 putney high street where we've also got a council who um wants to speak um wants to speak as well and so i'm hanging it out for council justin well i'm going to take that one first if that's okay um so so it's battersea square which is application number two i beg your pardon as i'm scrabbling around this as everyone else which is on page 63 um now i'm not sure we need an introduction to or do we we do need an introduction sorry i'm confusing my two mr granger mr granger thank you chair nigel granger east area team manager in development management um this hopefully is um um the latest and hopefully the last application you'll see at the royal academy of dance if you look at the planning history there have been several attempts um over the years when the royal academy moved to york road uh starting off with a residential scheme with a large roof extension over the granary building and then two other applications that were linked to thomas's school for education uses um this effectively is the uh least invasive application of of all of these in terms of um it's mainly for the change of use of the existing buildings with the introduction of air handling equipment uh and refurbishment mainly of the the granary building in terms of uh a lot of secondary glazing and and refurbishment of the existing um warehouse style windows and other improvements to the overall sustainability credentials of the of the granary building as the the main heritage asset with the most significance of on the site obviously the fontaine building is a is a more modern um addition to the overall suite of buildings within the within the parcel of land so the idea is to change the use um to provide some flexible uses incorporating class e and f uses e are generally more sort of commercial uses that you may see on a high street um and f uses are are more community um focused uses so there's a blend of these uses with the introduction of some pure office space on the upper floors um but that has been sequentially tested uh in terms of respecting or or being required to examine the town centre first approach but um in all uh the units of sorry the uses have been proven to be um acceptable in policy terms along with the other interventions to the building and the proposals recommended for approval subject to conditions and a section one and six planning obligation right now i was perfectly happy with this when i read it through the council cold please go and council humphries thank thank you chair uh took a lot of interest in this one because it was in it was in my ward i i really like the design and the layout i think it it looks lovely it looks like the main concern when it comes to residents were specifically residents of eaton house in which the um because the because the development backs out on it they're worried about the increase in noise um it says in the application that an acoustic survey um has taken place to make sure that there's not going to be excess noise and i um it didn't say in details like um where the acoustic survey was taken so could i get some confirmation that this acoustic survey included eaton house and we're making sure that the development won't negatively impact their um them with noise too much mr granger yes certainly the the so the noise impact statement so the the initial survey to inform the actual specification and how that how the future performance of the air handling equipment and all the other um equipment would work there's air source heat pumps up up there as well um it's taken over several points uh around the sites and these microphones are basically placed in front of what are known as sensitive receptors so these are all in there they're peppered all over the site because obviously sound of permeate permeates from this equipment but certainly eaton house was included um in that survey the during the course of this application um for two reasons the air handling um equipment and how it was arranged a lot of it was arranged on the um roof of the granary building and a lower level of the granary building there's someone on towards ship house and then a lower level towards the fontaine building in in two um two aspects the the impact of the air handling equipment a lot of it was um quite prominent on the the front elevation of the granary building as you walk into the courtyard we didn't think think that that in conservation and heritage terms was necessarily the most optimum way to actually preserve the significance of the granary building and also there was a some of the equipment was closer to eaton house so as we um looked at this in terms of the noise impacts and the and the the heritage impacts of this proposal a lot of that equipment was moved to the east facing elevation um along the parapets that that faces out towards thomas's school so a lot of that equipment has actually been moved further away from eaton house and there are benefits in that regard in terms of reducing the impacts having a much more clean and unfettered elevation of the granary building and moving away those those uh potential noise impactful noise generating equipment away from sensitive receptors like um eaton house so uh our um in-house um environmental health noise specialist has assessed all of this was involved with the negotiations um has obviously looked at the the baseline information in terms of the ambient noise levels and the background noise levels in the location and is satisfied that the location the new location of this equipment would perform adequately um but he did notice that there's a drop-off after um 11 o'clock at night where everything calms down and there could be um impact from the the equipment if it were allowed to continue running so you'll see there's a condition uh recommended for the equipment not to operate between 11 p.m and it can start up again at 7 a.m in the morning in order to make sure that it doesn't have any adverse effects brilliant thanks that covers pretty much everything i was worried about thank you thank you councillor humphries thank you just just quickly on the the noise thing i'm thanking the council for raising that one but i understood from the comments in the in the comment section that it was also not just about the the plants and the in the equipment but also there were concerns slightly about the the the first four event space and obviously that's people coming in and out late night and stuff like that so is that something that also can be addressed through the the noise and disturbance issue is that something for licensing they want to do it as uh events and such like because obviously when it was the rad there was a lot of coming and going at certain hours and it's people rather than kit yeah there were all sorts in the rad i mean it did cater for a broad spectrum but um this i mean within that particularly particularly use we don't think we don't anticipate that that the the noise and disturbance created by the comings and goings is going to be demonstrably different from what the rad operated as however for other reasons in terms of land use reasons and just best practice in terms of management and making sure that the actual uses remain within particular uses we've got um within the 106 we've got heads of terms to obtain that information as a as a management plan and then we can get that information it's a live document so if things do change over time then we can obviously amend that as as the uh as the 106 clause so that's all covered within the future management great thank you that's reassuring my my substantive point was actually on uh page 81 which on the bream uh status and and it tantalizingly innate in six six four says uh uh uh it's what does it say it's it's it's within reach uh to get to very good and obviously i appreciate officers always do their best to try to get the maximum we can but i think again is to try and make sure we do the absolute best we can it would be very frustrating having flagged it up early if we don't get to that kind of score so you know it's it's it's all degrees isn't it but obviously we want to get the maximum we possibly can credit after this kind of thing and it's frustrating sometimes when we hear that oh we could have done that if we've done x earlier and i just want to make sure we're doing everything we can to make sure that doesn't happen in this case and we get to what we've been teased with certainly totally agree and um and we have um pegged the uh the um bream score within condition six as to be very good as a minimum um so hopefully that that obviously sets out what our um our our aspiration is as a local planning authority um but i would say i mean this is a heritage building and lp10 does actually make allowances you know there is a balance to be struck between retaining the significance of the heritage asset you know not not knocking it down obviously um but improving it and that goes into the mix okay is the council white yeah just a couple of points uh yeah on that point about uh um retaining the building that's excellent uh for sustainability but are there any retrofitting aspects to this uh is there improvement of the fabric of the building um and maybe the uh uh you know the way that we're going to have a sustainable energy system yeah there are i mean as i mentioned earlier the the actual approach to um to heat and and cool the building has been done through you know modern technology and sustainable um equipment so air source heat pumps and and you know other examples of technology technology along those lines but the in order to achieve a bream score of very good there there has to be physical interventions within the building in order to actually make it you know the b lean stage when they actually make it thermally efficient and also the technology that they're using to to run this the uh proposal has well exceeded the minimum 35 percent of uh over part l 2021 so everything is it's as best as it can do um can perform in this particular regard whilst maintaining the significance of the building you know the granary building within a conservation area sorry chair go on another question um and also it talks about the um social and community this would it benefit back to the social and community infrastructure um but how would affordability and accessibility be assured so that all of the local community can benefit from it the the pricing is is something you know that we're we're not we can't we don't have a policy to be able to um uh dictate what that looks like um when the facility opens we could have done that if the actual floor area of the change of use um triggered um uh affordable workspace um contributions uh but it it doesn't it's not the the existing building and the amount of use change because some of the actual floors still remain within an educational f1 use it's only it's only parts of the building that change away from that f1 so it doesn't trigger the amount of floor space in order for us to require um affordable workspace which should obviously would be discounted and made available to the public so that's it's it's uh just it's a it's binary in that regard in terms of what triggers affordable words workspace and what doesn't thank you all um is the application agreed agreed unanimously thank you then we move on to page 369 an application for putney high street a gaming uh not a gambling but a gaming application and council brooke is here to speak about it council brooke chairman members of the committee thank you very much for the opportunity to speak on behalf of putney residents who are united in their strong opposition to this application for an adult gaming center at the norway road junction with putney high street despite what the paper says this proposal is incompatible with the local plan policy cited the gambling policy reaffirmed less than 24 hours ago in this very room which this application will need to satisfy at licensing and finally it's completely wrong for putney and the hopes that residents have for their high street let me first address the principles of development as outlined in the planning papers paragraph 1.2 claims that under policy lp42 and pm5 the application would need to would need to diversify the center's offer and enhance the vitality of the center this application does none of these and the assertion that it does when the paper makes it is simply wrong adding yet another gambling venue to an area already saturated with such uses doesn't diversify the high street or make it more vibrant there is already another gambling set the gambling venue just like the one the business making this application just 30 meters away and there are two betting shops also in close proximity to suggest that this gaming center would not contribute to over concentration is either a mistake or willful or a willfully negligent interpretation of reality paragraph 1.6 of the report is another example of a glaring contradiction it acknowledges that our local planning includes measures to prevent over concentration of gambling venues yet immediately lists the already significant clustering of such establishments in the area and still recommends the application for approval residents aren't wrong to highlight the harm of over concentration and the report itself inadvertently proves their point paragraph 1.5 attempts to justify this application by citing high vacancy rates on the high streets but in my in residence opinion a gambling center is not better than a vacancy once it's in it's in it's not temporary approving this would be simplistic thinking and a short and short term instead of thinking about the long-term health and character of our high street paragraph 3.3 meanwhile suggests that the gaming center would generate less noise than a pub and uses this to justify approval this is naive surely mercure the operator of an identical business 30 meters away sells alcohol 23 hours a day seven days a week if approved it's all but guaranteed that this business will also apply for an alcohol license alongside its 23 hours a day seven days a week planned opening hours to prevent otherwise is wishful thinking at best or an intentional omission at worst now let me turn to the ones with gambling policy which this application fails to meet on multiple multiple counts this business would if this committee makes the mistake of approval would need to satisfy the policy paragraph 15.17 of that policy is clear gambling premises should not be located near sensitive community venues such as libraries yet this proposed gaming center is situated just steps from partner library approving this application would undermine our commitment to fostering safe family-friendly spaces in our community paragraph 15.22 of the policy states that the council will carefully consider the cumulative impact of gambling venues including their potential contribution to crime anti-social behavior and economic harm paragraph 15.24 goes further identifying the over concentration of gaming establishments and that it negatively impacts the diversity and vibrancy of high streets this application blatantly violates both provisions to approve a planning application for for a gambling venue that would inevitably fail under our licensing policies would not only undermine our credibility but embarrass this committee and to do so just 24 hours after reaffirming the game the gambling policy in this very room would be nothing short of ridiculous moreover approving this application would betray the trust of putney residents they've made their wishes clear they do not want this gaming establishments disproportionately impact the most vulnerable members of society exacerbating issues of addiction financial hardship and family breakdown in conclusion this application and the paper recommending it for approval fail on their own terms another gaming center would plainly cause over concentration which the local local plan contains provisions to prevent it fails to meet the provisions of the ones with gambling policy which explicitly acknowledges the issue of cumulative impact and advises against this placement and it threatens to further erode the character and vibrancy of putney high street i urge colleagues to reject this application thank you any questions of council brooke council of india council of apps council airs i've seen the report comments from edo but any any comments from positively putney which is the local bid whether they agree with edo's comment that a gambling establishment is a better thing than an empty premises um no i don't think positively putney the bids have commented to my knowledge i think there's an issue there's a a delicacy that a bid has to um deal with when they end up representing any business that they end up on yeah council apps thank you and thanks very much for that presentation um i was interested to know the other gambling outlets are they also close to putney it sounds like they're all quite close by are they also close to putney library yes they are so uh mercure is on the corner of chelverton road and putney high street all sort of equidistant from putney library i guess it's about 100 meters away from putney library and then there's a lad brooks betting shop um even close to putney library on the corner of the station approach and there's a paddy power on the junction directly opposite the high street um opposite disraeli road where the library is as well council it is sorry could i just come in with just a quick supplementary on that so it might not be for you it might be for the officers but i wonder if that was in breach if this is in breach of the policy if those were in breach of the policy when they were established or if we've had a change of policy but um you might not i think that is i realize i think that is for the officers council i think i've misunderstood what i thought this was i didn't read this as a betting shop because i've seen a few gaming um cafes and they're not like betting shops at all they're sort of lines of people staring at screens in the sort of totally comatose silent manner and i kind of share your horror of a betting shop with alcohol but this is not applying for a license as i see it at the moment and we can cross that bridge when we come to it i would have thought meanwhile can somebody explain to me the difference between what they call a gaming shop and what you've been calling a betting shop i think that's uh for the officers can i come in just like you could okay but just just to say because because i don't think counts the brook understands this as i see it and that is if it's what he thinks it is it needs separately sorry that's the way that bureaucracy works a license and that's from a licensing committee and the need to get the license from someone else we're looking at it purely from the planning perspective and not from with respects a lot of what you spoke about because that's a licensing matter answer the question though may i yeah let's be open about it thank you very much well i serve on the licensing committee and i was part of the team that looked at the gambling policy just recently so i understand the difference my point about the licensing issue there was it's mad for this council okay it may well be mad okay fine but we don't we don't write the rules the rules are we are not the licensing to answer councillor's question directly um this isn't a betting shop in the sense of where you'd go and watch the horse racing while placing a bet this is like mercure which is obviously you can't see in from from the high street at all but once you go in it's just banks and banks and banks of slot machines with a bar councillor white if if this is a question of councillor brook if it's a councillor of the question of the officers i think i think it might be for officers really okay but i mean if there's no more question if there's no more questions councillor brook can i say like council airs i've got a lot of sympathy for you're coming from i've been through this discussion many times we will move on now to the questioning of the the officers question of the officers council white um yeah i was just just wondering um if these sort of gaming centers are allowed um is there any reports or anything about the negative impacts that these have on communities is there anything that we could point to to say that this is this probably going to have a negative impact on the putney community thank you um i mean there must be some statistics somewhere about a national kind of impact of of gaming and gambling but that's not information that we would have here or necessarily relevant what we've looked at here is in land use terms is is the land use acceptable in this location based on whether or not there is an over concentration i understand that councillor brooks has drawn um or not drawn a distinction necessarily between the difference between a betting shop and what this is is offering a betting shop is has a very different um uh experience i'm sure and a and a different uh thing that you are gambling on animals horses football whatever cricket games this is very much a gaming center you go in you you choose to play a particular game of your fancy until whenever uh 24 hours if you want there is no alcohol proposed on this site at all um the people who and as far as we were concerned sorry when we were assessing the policy in terms of the concentration of uses we could only identify one similar gaming center within putney high street and having discussed it in consultation with our policy officers as well as with the economic development officer um we all concluded that one other in the street could not be considered an over concentration if one more was introduced however we are very aware of the fact that if another one came along a third now that would perhaps tip the balance here slightly in terms of this kind nature of of of use within the street because it is less active than a public house or a bar or an eatery would have been so as officers perhaps we would prefer to see it being more of an active retail based activity but we have no control over that we have to consider what's before us the applicants have submitted a very detailed security and social responsibility statement that sets out quite clearly the sort of training they do with staff and what kind of methods they have in-house to ensure that people are safe while they're in there and if it's an evening they usually have security on the door anyway or or staff that are used to working at night time that's another thing that comes into the policy as well now is the night time economy so again that is an element that is very much a high street focused uh policy that's been brought in to encourage that because i think a third of of londoners work at night so you know or or use that that that that those night time facilities um so officers completely understand the the view of residents um as councillor brooks has set out um but from a pure planning point of view the policy has uh an element in it that that avoids an over concentration in this case officers have considered it to be acceptable now while in thinking about this i mean i i am as unhappy about this as many people might be but just think if we were if we were to say something like no mr calder alongside me would be immediately saying you've got to give reasons planning reasons are there any planning reasons and i just don't see it so um we've still got quite a lot to do so cancer cold keel and then let's wrap it up so i make a great um i just uh hasn't really been many comments yet about councillor brooks's point of it being particularly close to a library and and that'd be potentially in conflict with our plan so could we have some that thoughts on oh i think the police have been very clear about it and there's one in clapton junction it's so silent i mean it's it's more dead than any threat frankly i that's slightly unfair of me kind of the biggest counselor justin had his hand up as well i just want to know has um through the change of use from back to when it was the horseshoe pub through to it says various um outlets has the square foot of this unit changed over that period or is it still the same because what happens people talk about the death of the high street especially partly all over the london this is exactly the type of development that you lose so that once it's become this gaming it will never become anything else because what you see is what you get there's no stock room with a gaming place there's no no back room what you see is what you get and that's why we've got so many nail bars and coffee shops which we don't need and this is another and i'd just like to take issue with the officer saying in her opinion you know one gaming place two maybe three is when she would think it was unacceptable i mean you know it depends on what you think you can have lots of hairdressers lots of coffee shops maybe you wouldn't have more than one abattoir in a high street you know it's it's purely your opinion i think one is one is too many two is definitely too many i i would just like to say that this is policy based in terms of our assessment it's not my own personal view mr mr gorder um two things firstly i'm just a little bit concerned by councillor brooker's uh brooke's discussion about willful negligence on on the out by officers and i and i i hope i hope he he doesn't interpret that that we haven't fully assessed this against planning policies and um that he what he meant was it was willful negligence in terms of the the town centre because if he's having a particular officer i might have to take that up with you separately we'll go with the latter in interpretation then thank you mr gorder um in terms of as you mentioned before um well this the the next point is sort of related to knowing that there would be a concern of that's 600 objections um and it's it's an unpopular use i i thought i'd take the liberty of looking at other appeal decisions that have been in the last uh couple of weeks um we've got access to ones nationally i just looked at ones in london and um i was there's an appeal decision which was uh last week in greenwich which they the inspector well it was recommended by officers for approval refused by committee so you know it was sort of thinking about similar similar aspects uh it was allowed by the inspectorate um the first point was that he had a clear definition or distinction between an adult gaming center and betting shop so he didn't take into account existing betting shops just looked at our double gaming gaming centers so quite a similar situation uh he felt that there was one or two other ones in the in the elton town center but it wasn't an over concentration so it's quite a similar situation um and the second point was that there were concerns about from from from the uh uh uh members of committee regarding uh antisocial behavior and he said he and he felt it was would be less than uh would be established in a normal town center uh from from pubs and uh other late night establishments so those are the sort of aspects that we were talking about here and also issues in terms of the community and the obviously the members in this uh one were raised concerned about uh youngsters underage people going in but it's a it's a over 18s only so it's sort of limited in terms of the impact uh on those sorts of sides so not not drawing too many distinctions but i know that those are the sort of concerns i'm sure a lot of local residents have have and i sort of just sort of highlight them to you now uh not sure i like some of that but uh i don't see that we've got any choice uh yeah i'm trying to keep trying to draw things to a conclusion councillor apps thank you um i actually it's a specific question i hope mr calder can answer it i realize it's slightly stepping into other remits but will this i mean i've sat on licensing as well and you know this is something that i presume would go to licensing i'm assuming it hasn't gone to licensing yet that that would be a later stage but i don't know if you could clarify that uh i don't know but i normally you'd establish a land a land base and when you had an operator which i don't think this has then they would get the license and i'd ask mr mr moore to confirm that yes chairman that's correct um i don't think there's anything that mandates in which order a premises license or a planning consent is obtained but i think i agree mr calder's view that normally you would get planning consent in place first and then make the application uh under the gambling act but it's very clear in terms of planning law that you shouldn't impose conditions or uh try and merge regimes there are two separate regimes they may have overlapping considerations but they're both requirements of the applicant here to firstly get a consent and then get a license under the gambling act there's two people speak and want to speak this could give up for ages we've all got views about it i don't think we would get anywhere but but councillor justin then councillor humphries um a question to um mr calder you you you set out this uh wonderful example in greenwich but you never you never ended it so what was the decision in greenwich it was allowed it was okay you never did actually say that yeah my point was there's various applications been refused by by committee councils and they've all been allowed you know there's three in the last couple of weeks that's hamphries thank you i appreciate your generosity it's a technical point again so probably probably back back to you chaps over there um this one's change of use to sui generis so does that mean they have to have an application for a license to serve alcohol because it was a pub before or would they be able to do that automatically anyway do they still need to get a license for gambling but what about the alcohol part can i sorry i just want to say that in their statement that they've submitted as part of the application they don't serve alcohol on any of their premises that's it would appear to me that it's not part of their thing so we just heard there wasn't an operator designated so there's no operator how can they make that assertion yeah no no no that was a it is actually luxury luxury leisure is the operator isn't the same operator that counselor brooks was talking about over the road is the recommendation however unwillingly agreed right have you got reasons to objection right so if everyone's abstaining it goes through on my vote and this is slightly i mean this is the penalty of being in a committee which is subject to the operations of the law you have to have reasons for objection and reasons that stand up so sorry well you try reasons when it goes to appeal against the express advice of the officers and everyone else what are you going to turn up and fight the council's case on it because because they're saying there's no case um we have to test out the reasons and in order to test out the reasons uh officers might guide me i mean i just think that um at the core of our planning policies for decades the vitality of five town centers been fundamental and i know the edo thinks that an m that if operating premises is better than an empty premises it's a it's a judgment he makes i'm not sure he has any basis for that um other than saying you know somebody occupying is better it could be any one occupier i think that this goes against the continuing recovery and vitality of putney high street and therefore it compromises a core bit of council's policy which has sustained the borough for five decades any other right um is that are you would you care to be precise about the wording that the operator by the nature of these is is a will affect the continuing recovery of putney high street and undermine its vitality there's a similar establishment or two in clapton junction that seems to be being fairly lively and living center so i'm not sure about that but any any is that seconded seconded by councillor humphries those in favor of refusal on those grounds those against it loses by four votes to five i think um right now i think i think there was no one abstention which is no no no there's two abstentions to to the whole um um but on that particular point you're particular point no i'm not backing them so four to six okay um so we're still left with the application and i however unwillingly like everyone else i'm fully in favor of the officer's recommendations for technical reasons so um can i move that that's that we have a vote on it now those in favor of the application as it stands now those against chairman's casting voted passes through yeah any abstentions so that application is approved um move on to uh number one it's me um the rectory uh which i think is pretty good in all details particularly planning details i'm not sure how much of an intro we need but i also know um and so do the officers know that council airs has a fundamental problem with the design of two or three of the properties and i urge i encourage urgently that uh mr granger talks to her and listens to what she has to say and puts forward to the applicant her comments which i think have a lot of justification and justice but are not reasons for refusal so i just say that apart from that any other comments on this application council of india um i mean it's a small point i mean there are quite a lot of uh units here for disabled people and i just don't think there is adequate amount of parking and it's not an area where on street parking is easy to get you'd have to park on rectory lane which is always heavily parked i just think it's uh uh ill thought how to provision for disabled uh residents mr chidley any comment um not not not not specifically um the the development provides one single disabled parking bay um the clear intention here is that the uh property would be occupied by disabled people who do not own or or or otherwise run a car and i can think of many disabled people who fall into that category sorry let's not get into that debate mr titley because it does talk about wheelchair accessibility and wheelchair accessibility generally implies that current occupier or a future occupier will need mobility aid and often that is a car and and there is there would be space for vehicles to be able to set down and pick up disabled people on site and as we did discuss earlier any disabled person in the development that did actually have a blue badge would be able to park in any controlled zones in the surrounding areas i think that's worth noting um but apart from that is the council council white uh yeah i just wanted to note the or question of uh value of viability reports that the uh it says they're going to show a deficit of 645 000 their own viability reports that is going to have a deficit of 710 000 so why the hell are they building is it uh they're doing it for charity um they're obviously going to make a profit here but these viability reports aren't really reflecting the true nature of um of these of these um these developments so yeah just wanted to make a note of that mr granger there's an issue about timing here isn't there tonight or oh sorry have i got this completely wrong i do beg your pardon um it's timing sorry chain in what regard i thought i thought this application was originally put forward before before before before the current viability rules i got that wrong am i confusing that with something else viability rules that's what that's what repeat council white is saying that council white let me not okay you mean the the regulation 19 the the emergence of the regulation 19 plan in in the affordable housing i'm sorry i'm fishing white start again just uh that the development is going to go um they want they want to develop even though our viability report shows 645 000 pound deficit their one shows 710 000 pound deficit there's also a contribution uh of 150 000 here so by their own reckoning that they're probably going to lose a million pound by by doing this development uh it's just doesn't make sense to me why they would do it they're not a charity well in that regard i mean we've seen lots of um we've seen many schemes that have been brought forward where they've indicated deficits and uh and taken a a market speculative decision to proceed and see what could happen with the market over the three-year life period of the um of the application and market conditions could change could they obviously are of the view that market conditions would improve and um that the scheme would be deliverable so uh them agreeing the the figure of of 6 um 145 000 is obviously the figure that we've arrived at in terms of um our our independent viability consultants along with our in-house viability team that have been specifically um uh put together to um assist our um independent independent viability scrutineers to really examine these figures go deep they've challenged every single input into these financial viability um assessments put forward by the applicant which is why it's taken so long it's been months and months of ongoing meetings and exchanging of documents and evidencing um why uh certain percentiles certain costs per square meter all of these things have been challenged throughout the journey um and yeah it's produced this deficit out of 34 units nearly half a million pounds i think in the development industry probably isn't um that great but uh they still believe that they can deliver it i can just follow up and just make a comment that uh yeah that market conditions could go in favour but it could go against them as well does that mean they'll just sit on it you know and that condition of three years will be uh probably they'll come back for another planning in three years well they certainly couldn't come back and try and um and uh water down any affordable housing offer um ultimately speculatively if it does uh the market conditions do um do deteriorate then they would be looking at operating at a loss on that that project and that's part of um this this particular process being speculative okay can i just add if they if they end up making a profit we have got uh clawback mechanisms set out in the section 106 so if they do make more profit then we would get make a more have a bit larger contribution for affordable housing for other schemes so so there is an ability to get some back if if it proves provokes more successful produce it's more successful thank you okay having heard the comments of the officers is the application approved approved with one abstention counts the white um we've done item two item three is a back extension in furs down wood knock road um i think fairly simple one agreed is that agreed agreed agreed and then item four similarly in similar ish kind of application in furs down again is that agreed can i ask a quick question chair sorry yeah go on in the objections it mentions a log burner um whereas in the report it doesn't mention anything i think it's all about log burner you don't need planning permission for a log burner okay is that approved item five lidden road this is about affordable um about uh an industrial development in lydden road between lydden road and the bendham valley um councillor humphries has got something to say about it and councillor uh uh airs person is who's sorry councillor humphries i know i've said councillor humphries oh sorry i beg you well get you have to leave the room um officially i'm very keen on that i'm just getting them out on item we're on item five aren't we right okay any any issues on item five councillor airs i'll vote for this but i'm really intrigued they want to put art on it and they sound quite excited at the idea of putting art on it um i would i don't know what you put in your conditions about the art but it would be good if there was some competition uh or some public face to this art and if if someone do you have any control over what happens with the art i mean i am absolutely certain that it cannot be a matter of planning control what kind of art they have and whether they commission uh john constable or leonardo da vinci but they may have practical problems with that um but i'm absolutely certain we have no planning powers we could suggest to them they might open it that's what i'm asking for thank you david yep so can we suggest to them they open it out to the local schools or whoever in the competition thank you just we just add an informative asking them to engage with the local residents in terms of the art yes yes yep okay just a suggestion yes yes well actually i had councillor colquiv but i'm not sure right okay councillor govindia just following on from councillor's point i mean more importantly can we make sure that art actually happens because i do know one in situation in batsy hi about ballam high road where in fact i judged the supposed art that was going to go on it never went on and we don't want any clever comments later about you call that art or something for other people to have views on it um councillor white uh just a couple of comments first of all it's good that the affordable workspace expectations and that uh but um yeah just a little bit worried that this is a mid rise up the zone and we've we've gone over the height uh for that um so that's a little bit disappointing i do think we ought to keep to what the public see as our plans originally and going over occasionally by the odd floor here or there for additional benefits i guess is justified i don't like it very much when it's a uh 10 stories over um so i do think you have a point what do we say about it being just one floor over um we were of the view that quite sorry sorry can is can can councillor sorry can miss richards talk without being interrupted councillor govindia yeah thank you um in in the report actually it's acknowledged that this is a story higher than what is identified as as um site allocation however it is adjacent to a building of a similar height which will only be one story less so it's not completely out of context in this location because there is a taller building next door to it and i think in this case what we're looking for is an uplift in the actual industrial floor area that we will get that that will increase employment opportunity and so on so um overall we're happy with this and it doesn't have any implications on uh residential amenity either well i guess i mean if i can speak on council white's behalf i wonder whether i've got this vaguely right i guess that if local plans say one height and there's a justification for being another height fair dues but if it's just because it's not too bad then i think we ought to get them to stick to what they said hardly worth it in this case the amount of cost of effort and so on but i think as a flavor for planners to take note of um committee members on the whole want to stick to what the local plan says unless there's a real benefit like more affordable workspace or more open space or or something else but so if is that fair enough council white yeah okay very much so chair yeah um with that comment added council humphries thank you chair uh colleagues very remember what um long memories we've all got but we've we've had issues on lidden grove before ridden road with uh with the the adjustments it's quite a popular cut through for families going to the school on garrett lane in the mornings and at school trafficking hours so i just wanted to do this probably for mr tidley actually um are there any restrictions on vehicle movements deliveries such like which are going to be quite extensive it's it's off site so they're going to back into the building and i just wanted to make sure that officers have taken that into account and maybe perhaps do an exclusion for school hours coming and going which we have done before in the area because it is quite an issue with cutting through that place for pedestrians during those school hours yes thank you council yes we would try and ensure that the development was appropriately constructed i imagine there is a construction management plan again placed on this one yes and a service and delivery plan okay subject to that agreed with the informative agreed unanimously yes uh we've done we're going to rattle through now no we haven't no we've got the enwith road we might give you a shout can't suppose will you i need to go to the voucher oh okay fair enough i think we're one that's very reasonable of you thank you well i don't anyway i could ask mr moore's to introduce this one unusually because um for reasons will become obvious mr moore's thank you very much chairman so members would have carefully read the report and will have recognized that the disagreement between the applicant as set out in the late items paper that you would have seen and the council relates to a particular element in relation to viability so just a very brief refresher on on viability for members before they go on to consider this application so how a scheme is considered to be viable you firstly calculate what the gross development value of the scheme is so you take into account all the sales values and any rents and any other proceeds from that development you then calculate what all the bill costs are so including within that seal payments 106 contributions consultancy fees sales fees that kind of thing and then you calculate what's known as the residual land value by deducting the costs of the development from the gdv and then you compare that residual land value against the benchmark land value and it's the benchmark land value that is an issue in this case this application between the applicants and the council so when you get to that residual level and the benchmark land value consideration you then see whether it's in surplus or deficit and if it's in surplus you see how much affordable housing the development can hold so pages 163 to 167 of the report set out how this issue has been carefully considered by officers the viability assessment was submitted and then assessed independently by the council's viability consultants taking you back to 2019 when two applications were submitted on this site they were both they both had significant commercial elements so the first of which had retail office light industrial floor space storage and distribution floor space i'll call that one the commercial scheme then the second application had retail office light industrial storage and distribution but also 17 residential units and i'll call this one the residential scheme both applications were refused by the planning applications committee both was both were appealed and both were subsequently allowed on appeal by a planning inspector in 2020 so as i said the this is the this application the difference on the scheme's viability relates to how the benchmark land value is calculated so the applicants are promoting an alternative use value which is based on what the alternative use of the site under the commercial scheme would value the land app the council's position and it's backed up by national and local policy is it should be an existing use plus basis evaluation now if the alternative use valuation is used then it's common ground between the council's assessors and the applicant's assessors that the scheme is significantly in deficit however if the existing use plus methodology is used then the scheme is in surplus and could provide affordable housing either on site or a financial contribution and that point is made in paragraph 315 of the report on page 164 now previously in an earlier section 73 application the council accepted the appellants sorry the applicant's argument at that stage that the alternative use value approach was appropriate in those circumstances at that time i think they were still offering six affordable units and the consent was still live we're in a slightly different position now that consent has lapsed and the the residential scheme as i termed it is nearing completion and so that commercial scheme is no longer capable of being implemented and you will see in the report at pages 164 and 165 it it sets out what the government's approach to viability is in the national planning practice guidance and there is a strong presumption in favour of using the existing use plus methodology for this establishing benchmark land value um chairman rather than just kind of i'm not wanting to prolong proceedings because it's it's fairly late but i think it's a very important point to raise in terms of this guidance that if i may just read please from the bottom of page 164 so this is the planning practice guidance on viability for the purposes of viability assessment alternative use value refers to the value of land for uses other than its existing use auv of the land may be informative in establishing benchmark land value in a if applying alternative uses when establishing benchmark land value these should be limited to those uses which would be fully which would fully comply with up-to-date development plan policies including any policy requirements for contributions towards affordable housing at the relevant levels set out in the plan where it is assumed that an existing use will be refurbished or redeveloped this will be considered as an auv when establishing benchmark land value plan makers can set out in which circumstances alternative uses can be used this might include if there is evidence that the alternative use would fully comply with up-to-date development plan policies it can be demonstrated that the alternative use could be implemented on the site in question if it can be demonstrated that there is market demand for that use and if there is an explanation as to why the alternative use has not been pursued where auv is used this should be supported by evidence of the cost and values of the alternative use to justify the land value valuation based on auv includes premium to landowner if evidence of auv is being considered the premium to the landowner must not be double counted so i'll just take members back in order to be able to use that alternative use value then that alternative use must fully comply with council policies and it doesn't and secondly it's not capable of being implemented because it was granted consent on appeal in 2020 with a three-year commencement period and that has lapped so in addition chairman there is national planning policy framework uh hot off the presses today as we discussed at the outset of the meeting and paragraph 59 58 under the previous um mppf i'm reading that the final uh sentence all viability assessments including any undertaken at the plan making stage reflect the recommended approach in national planning practice guidance including standardized inputs and should be made publicly available so the nppf says that in dealing dealing with viability you should follow the national planning practice guidance so that's what i just read from the report also in the council's planning obligations spg there is um there is a part that says to ensure that the council's approach is consistent with the london-wide approach then it should be an existing use value plus basis on assessing benchmark land value so in summary i direct members to paragraphs 3.36 and 3.38 on page 167 which says that in summary the viability has been tested and verified using the auv methodology whilst the council accept that this was appropriate to use in the circumstances under application 2019 1426 that is the the commercial scheme that permission is now lapsed it says under the council's planning spg and national planning policy guidance the correct method of calculating the benchmark land value is the existing use value plus method and carter jonas have advised the council that on that basis the development would yield a surplus of 1.66 million and is able to support affordable housing provision as such the proposed development would fail to provide an appropriate level of affordable housing contrary to policy lp23 of the local plan and the objectives of policy h4 of the london plan so this you finished so despite despite despite the perhaps slightly threatening letter that some members may have read your legal opinion is that we're on certain and solely ground refusing this application and going along with the officer's recommendation chairman yes that's that's my advice to members now i suspect that if members uh follow that advice and refuse application then i suspect they will appeal and it will be down to a planning inspector to uh determine whether in his or her view it would be appropriate to use the auv method of benchmark land value i don't believe it is well i think we can all see that what they're trying to avoid a certain level of affordable housing um and we've been told that our position in refusing to let them do that is acceptable so i would suggest that we just accept the officer's recommendation to refuse but if anyone got any comment agreed everyone agrees on that it's agreed just just to add that it's just disgraceful act really on behalf of the developer i think one has to remember that developers people in commercial businesses operate to to make a profit what they do whether you think it's moral or not unless it's illegal it's what they do okay um item the next three items we've done and over the page we've done 10 and 11 leaving as brett house putney heath lane which is a conversion of one flat into two which will not be seen outside of the actual flat and it's perfectly acceptable i think so council covindy has got something to say thank you chairman it's just that i have had representation from uh residents within the block and uh their concerns are about in a sense additional pressure on what they consider to be a very under pressure area in terms of both parking in terms of waste uh collection and disposal and and they they have concerns about uh the quality of the accommodation that comes so i did say to them that i would be making this point to you uh one specific issue they're concerned about is that by providing cycle storage in the in the garage they effectively make the garage unusable for parking adding traditional parking pressure thank you for making a point on behalf of your residents none less counts white yeah just a quick one the uh uh there's a new boiler being put in and i presume that that's gas so you know it's not um um yeah it's it's not a progressive or sustainable um conversion in in my mind again we don't have control over everyone's boiler i mean but noted um is the application agreed agreed thank you that concludes one abstention with one abstention two abstentions so that finishes the application so going on to the closure of investigations file which is for information is that a noted and closed appeals noted tree preservation orders agreed decisions paper noted and that concludes sorry sorry what do i in the in the late items i'll put the statistics it wasn't able to be run at the time but i'm going to change them from the next um ones because so they go monthly rather than between committees and i think it might be more sensible for everybody to know previous month absolutely okay does that concludes the committee and i'd like to say if it includes finished and closed down i guess i'd like to say if anyone's got still got the stamina
Summary
The committee approved all 12 of the applications that were put before it, with the exception of a controversial application at 150a-170 Penwith Road and 2-8 Thornsett Road in Earlsfield, where councillors voted against the recommendation to approve the scheme.
The Ashburton Estate
Three applications concerning the Ashburton Estate in Putney were discussed, and were met with vocal opposition from local residents. The applications, which were submitted by Wandsworth Council, proposed the construction of 34 new council homes across three sites. Residents were concerned about the impact of the development on existing amenities and parking provision on the estate.
Innes Gardens
The first of the three applications, for the construction of 29 new homes at Innes Gardens, was presented to the committee by Councillor John Austin. He raised concerns about the accuracy of traffic surveys carried out in February 2023, the loss of existing garages and storage units on the site, and asked why the proposed housing mix did not conform to the preferred mix outlined in Policy LP24 of the Wandsworth Local Plan.1 He stated that:
This entire report just goes to show the lackadaisical nature of the Council's approach to the Ashburton development scheme.
Planning officers acknowledged that there would be some impact on residents, but stated that on balance the benefits of providing 29 new council homes on the estate outweighed the negative impact on residents. The application was approved by six votes to four.
Hayward Gardens
The application for the construction of 28 new homes at Hayward Gardens was presented to the committee by Councillors Sue Sutters and Laxmi Ambash. They objected to the proposed scheme on the grounds of the impact of the development on daylight and sunlight levels to existing properties. In particular they cited the fact that the BRE2 guidance on Vertical Sky Component (VSC) would not be met in several cases. They also raised concerns about the visual impact of the development, the loss of 24 existing garages, and the impact of construction on children's play space on the estate. They asked:
If you doubt the reports before you, you really do have to ask questions, and maybe reject this application.
Planning officers again acknowledged that there would be some impact on residents, but stated that on balance the benefits of providing 28 new council homes on the estate outweighed the negative impact on residents. They sought to reassure residents that a Construction Management Plan would be implemented to minimise disruption during construction, and explained that
in terms of some of the areas where it shows more of an impact, often these rooms have secondary, another source of light.
The application was approved by six votes to four.
Cortis Road
Councillor Austin returned to present the application for the construction of 7 new homes at Cortis Road. He argued that the proposed scheme was car-dependent due to the site's distance from public transport, did not contain any family homes, would have a negative impact on the nearby Granard Primary School, and would lead to the loss of existing mature trees on the site. He argued that:
If this is the best the Council can do, having spent over a third of a million pounds in fees, then it isn't a good reflection on the applicant, who happens to also be the Council.
Planning officers stated that the scheme would lead to the planting of 69 new trees, that the development would meet the relevant requirements of the London Plan3 on play space, and that the housing mix would free up existing family homes on the estate. The application was approved by six votes to four.
Ackroydon Estate
The committee also considered an application to build 5 new homes on the Ackroydon Estate. Some concerns were raised about the impact of the development on existing properties. It was noted that the proposal did not meet the BRE guidance on daylight and sunlight, but planning officers stated that the proposed units, which would all have a dual aspect, would nonetheless meet an acceptable standard of accomodation. The application was approved by six votes to four.
Battersea Square
The committee considered an application by the Royal Academy of Dance4 for the change of use of its former premises at 36 Battersea Square to a mixed-use development for office, retail and community purposes. Residents of nearby Eton House raised concerns about noise levels, but planning officers reassured them that this had been taken into account, and that as a result much of the plant equipment had been moved away from Eton House to the eastern side of the development, facing Thomas's Battersea5. They explained that:
our in-house environmental health noise specialist has assessed all of this, was involved with the negotiations, has obviously looked at the baseline information in terms of the ambient noise levels and the background noise levels in the location, and is satisfied that the new location of this equipment would perform adequately.
Councillors also wanted to be assured that the BREEAM6 status of the development would be very good
, the highest possible rating for this type of scheme. Planning officers confirmed that this would be the case, but noted that
there is a balance to be struck between retaining the significance of the heritage asset [the granary building], you know, not knocking it down obviously, um but improving it, and that goes into the mix.
The application was approved unanimously.
Putney High Street
An application for a change of use to an Adult Gaming Centre at 160-162 Putney High Street proved to be controversial. Local resident Councillor Ben Brook argued that the proposed use would lead to an overconcentration of gambling premises in Putney, would be detrimental to the vitality of Putney High Street, and would be incompatible with the recently adopted Wandsworth Gambling Policy.
Planning officers acknowledged the concerns of residents, but explained that the Council's powers to refuse the application were limited. They stated that:
the policy has an element in it that that avoids an over concentration. In this case, officers have considered it to be acceptable.
Councillors accepted that there were no clear planning grounds to refuse the application, which was approved by the chairman's casting vote.
The Rectory
The committee considered an application for the construction of 34 new homes at The Rectory on Rectory Lane. The scheme, which was designed to be wheelchair accessible, attracted some concerns about the lack of adequate parking for disabled residents. The council's transport officer, David Tiddley, responded to the concerns by explaining that:
the clear intention here is that the property would be occupied by disabled people who do not own or otherwise run a car, and I can think of many disabled people who fall into that category.
He also noted that any disabled residents who did require a car would be eligible for a blue badge, and would therefore be able to park on nearby streets irrespective of any Controlled Parking Zone restrictions in place.
Councillor White questioned the viability of the proposed scheme, which had been assessed to be in deficit by both council officers and the applicant. He asked:
So, by their own reckoning, they're probably going to lose a million pound by by doing this development. It just doesn't make sense to me why they would do it. They're not a charity.
Planning officers stated that the applicant was taking a market speculative decision to proceed and see what could happen with the market over the three-year life period of the application
, and that market conditions could change
. The application was approved, with Councillor White abstaining from the vote.
Lydden Road
The committee considered an application for the construction of a six-storey industrial development at 17 Lydden Road. As part of the scheme the applicant proposed to commission an artwork for the exterior of the building, prompting Councillor Aydin Dikerdem to request that:
there was some competition or some public face to this art.
Planning officers agreed to add an informative to the decision asking the applicant to engage with local residents in terms of the artwork.
Councillor White also expressed concern about the height of the development, which would exceed the height limit for the site specified in the local plan, and stated that he was:
a little bit worried that this is a mid-rise zone and we've gone over the height for that.
He was reassured by the planning officers who explained that the increase in height would be justified due to the additional industrial floor space it would create, and that it would not be out of context due to the fact that it was:
adjacent to a building of a similar height.
The application was approved unanimously.
Penwith Road
The only application to be refused during the meeting was an application for the demolition of existing buildings and the construction of 11 new homes at 150a-170 Penwith Road and 2-8 Thornsett Road. The applicants proposed to provide six affordable homes on the site, but council officers argued that the proposed scheme was capable of providing more than this, and that the applicant was using an alternative use value
methodology to artificially depress the benchmark land value for the site in order to avoid providing more affordable homes. They pointed out that:
under the Council's planning SPG and national planning policy guidance, the correct method of calculating the benchmark land value is the existing use value plus method.
The external legal advisor for the committee, Duncan Moores, advised that the council was on solely ground refusing this application
, and that it will be down to a planning inspector to determine whether, in his or her view, it would be appropriate to use the AUV method of benchmark land value.
Councillor White described the applicant's behaviour as disgraceful
and the application was unanimously refused.
Brett House
The committee finally considered an application for internal alterations at 21 Brett House, to convert one flat into two. This attracted some concerns from residents who objected to the loss of an existing garage to provide cycle storage for the new flat. They argued that this would:
effectively make the garage unusable for parking, adding to additional parking pressure.
Councillor White again objected to the scheme on the grounds of sustainability, pointing out that
there's a new boiler being put in, and I presume that that's gas. So, you know, it's not, yeah, it's not a progressive or sustainable conversion in my mind.
The application was approved, with Councillors White and Govindia abstaining from the vote.
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Adopted in July 2023, the Wandsworth Local Plan sets out the council's planning policies for the borough. ↩
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A building science centre that develops standards and guidance for construction. ↩
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Developed by the Mayor of London, the London Plan sets out a strategic framework for development across the capital. ↩
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One of the world's most influential dance education and training organisations. The academy has since moved to new premises on York Road. ↩
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An independent prep school in Battersea, attended by Prince George and Princess Charlotte. ↩
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An internationally recognised standard for sustainable building design, construction and operation. ↩
Decisions to be made in this meeting
Attendees
Documents
- Decisions 12th-Dec-2024 19.30 Planning Applications Committee
- Agenda frontsheet 12th-Dec-2024 19.30 Planning Applications Committee agenda
- Public reports pack 12th-Dec-2024 19.30 Planning Applications Committee reports pack
- Application 1- 2023-4243 EAST
- Application 2 - 2024-1162 EAST
- Application 3 - 2024-1613 EAST
- Application 4 - 2024-2413 EAST
- Application 5 - 2023-1539 WEST
- 24-390 Closure of Investigation Files
- 24-391 Appeal Stats
- 24-392 TPO Report
- TPO 493 MAP
- TPO 493 ORDER
- TPO 494 MAP
- TPO 494 ORDER
- Front sheet Dec 2024 other
- Late Items of Correspondence And Decisions Paper 12th-Dec-2024 19.30 Planning Applications Committ other
- 24-393 Decisions other