Transcript

...including youth empowerment, youth participation, and youth safety, and both of them will no doubt make excellent contributions to the work of the administration, and we'll be talking a lot about the work of the administration, particularly in the context of the vision that we have for the people of this borough, which we are advising, and this purpose, underpinning everything that we do, which is about supporting and lifting them up, and lifting them to lead well and thriving lives for them and their families. On that note, let's jump into apologies for absence. We have Charlene McLean, councillor Charlene McLean, councillor Rohit Dasgupta, and councillor John Morris, that I've noted. Are there any other apologies, councillor Sarah Ruth? Councillor Anne Easter. Councillor Anne Easter. And councillor Anne Easter. Apologies for those who have been noted. Well, I suppose I could say councillor Miraj Patel, although I haven't been told that, I know Anne's the way, but Miraj isn't here. Okay, and councillor Miraj Patel as well, thank you. Can I just draw everyone's attention to the declarations of interest on pages 9 to 10? In accordance with the members to declare any disclosure of pecuniary interests, and pecuniary interests they may have in any matter being considered at this meeting, having regard to the guidance attached to the agenda. So you'll have noted the guidance, pages 9 and 10. I just want one point of clarification, if I may, in light of the draft proposals, particularly as they relate to council tax and council tax reduction relief scheme, are there any declarations that anyone needs taken at this stage, or is that all for council? Are there any declarations of interest? Are there any declarations of interest? Anyone? No? Okay, fine. Brilliant. If you could just draw your attention to pages 11 and 28 of the Agenda Pack, and these are minutes of the decisions made by Cabinet on the 3rd of December 2024, can I just invite Cabinet members only to approve this as an accurate record for decisions made on the 3rd of December? And I appreciate, and I appreciate, and I appreciate, for two of our newer Cabinet members, they would not have been in attendance, so you may not be in a position for those that don't have to give consideration. So I'm going to go straight to, is this an accurate record? Agreed. Agreed. Agreed. Agreed. Thank you. Appointments to outside bodies. There are no appointments to outside bodies that I'll be announcing today, albeit I do want to provide a notice. In light of some Cabinet decisions that I've made, I'm going to need to find a new member nominee for one of our external bodies, and also there is the West Ham Ecclesiastical Church body, and it's chaired by Councillor Shaban Mohammed, who I passed over chairing role under delegated authority on my behalf, and now he's no longer in the Cabinet, I'm going to be making a decision as to who is going to be adopting that chairing role. And there will be provision for me to appoint an officer if I so wish, but I'm going to have discussions with officers concerned in that regard. So I just wanted to note that for the record. And then there's of main items of discussion. Let's move to agenda item six first, which is work strategy, 2025 to 2035, and I'll be inviting Councillor Neil Wilson in the first instance to introduce us. Thank you very much Chair. So Councillor Neil Wilson, Lead Member and Cabinet Member for Health and Adult Social Care. I'm pleased to bring this report for approval of a 10 year sex work strategy and accompanying year one action plan. This strategy is this local authority's commitment to the residents of Newham to continue to develop and improve the response to sex work in our borough. It sets out the work undertaken towards inspiring the important elements of competence and trust in all of our residents, including the sex workers themselves, so that they feel safe, they feel heard and are able to access effective help and support. It is a basic human right that people should have dignity, whatever their circumstances. We are talking about, in this case, some of the most vulnerable and most exposed to all sorts of exploitation, predominantly women, but also a younger cohort involved in an industry sex work, which some have come into. And we will talk throughout about how we are approaching that very vulnerable group. The strategy and the year one action plan are being presented to Cabinet this morning for ratification. But I must stress, Chair, that the work has been continuing to develop the response to sex work in Newham. We have taken a timely approach in order to make certain that there is due regard to all the partners involved in this work with us, including the Metropolitan Police, people with lived experience, reference group, very important voice of our residents affected where there has been sex work supported and been observed, but also the actual individuals and people, not just with lived experience, but experts in the field doing academic research, but also representing women's rights groups, etc. And the work has already shown improvements with the police and community safety report showing reductions in the reports of antisocial behaviour experienced by our residents alongside. And they're not contradictory, they are coalescing around continued improvements to the support offered to sex workers, resulting in increased numbers engaging with services. And those increased, increased numbers engaging with services has meant that this public health approach that we've taken across the whole borough, sometimes it's been stereotyped as being related to either one community or one geographical area. It is quite clear, for instance, we've opened a second hub in the Canning Town area. It's quite clear that there's different aspects to the sex work and we need to approach it differently wherever the locations are. And it's an approach to sex work which addresses shared issues raised by all of our residents, including the sex workers themselves, during the work to develop this strategy. It includes antisocial behaviour, fears about personal and familial safety, health inequities and access to public services. So while all of the sex workers who engage with us as part of the development of the strategy were women who primarily were street based, this strategy is also designed to address the needs of male and transgender sex workers who work within the borough boundary. And it's quite clear that we should make this regardless of gender issues and continue to explore the impacts of premises and online based sex work. I take the comparison chair with the online gambling position we're trying to adopt through other community safety experiences there. And the International Evidence Review has supported this, that the more we can actually deal with the current landscape, this is a 10 year strategy. We need it to be forward facing. It will be likely to increase, not decrease the element of the online industry. So the one councillor's approach has been taken with the participation of officers from across the local authority being involved in the development strategy with oversight from key cabinet members, from obviously myself and my colleague, Deputy Councillor Mumtaz Khan, but also Community Safety and Crime, Councillor Malverde and Children's Services, Councillor Ruiz, and we had the assistance also of Councillor Miraj Patel. It builds on our existing work which has taken place in this borough and was formulated in partnership with multiple organisations involved in a systematic, systemic approach to sex work. The strategy and action plan were also developed in partnership with residents and people with lived experience and through a trauma informed engagement approach. It's important to stress that a lot of the people who were interviewed in safe spaces, they needed obviously support. We're dealing with some very difficult issues for women to open up about. And there are also often children involved, they've had adverse childhood experiences, the sex workers themselves. There are drug and alcohol addiction issues, or there is certainly very temporary and very intermittent housing for very often of these women. So the strategy was also developed in partnership with those residents and the people with lived experience. And the seven priorities have been set within the strategy. They've been developed in line with feedback from all of our partners, the people with lived experience and of engagement. The priorities are of associated outcomes and targets and the action plan is for the first year is being populated and has been further developed, even since the report has been published. This is a live document. The action plan is not to be seen as some sort of, oh, we've done it. It's under a constant review and it's going to be reported on quarterly with residents involved in holding us to account for their achievement. We've already made a commitment myself and Councillor Verdi to continue the work of resident engagement at the right level. And so the order on page 429 is about community safety and cohesion, because we can only do this in response, but also in coordination with our residents to ensure community safety and cohesion. To develop a community and physical infrastructure to increase the safety. The working together approach, which has been amply demonstrated by, I would say, a very ambitious change in the light of the Metropolitan Police, breaking down barriers. Just as an aside to that chair, for instance, the Metropolitan Police have already got two dedicated women officers who are coming out on all sorts of antisocial behaviour times, as it were. You know, they're working through the night and all sorts of things without other partners who will be commissioned the specialist services and support for sex workers. I've already highlighted some of those, but also the childhood parenting and the care system. So often people have been had not not just adverse childhood experiences, but obviously they have their children in care and obviously the building inclusion. And in addition to all of that, the strategy and action plan will also include five council wide high level outcomes, which will be monitored and reported quarterly to us in relation to crime and antisocial behaviour, sections of safety on estates. And it's that perception of safety that's always difficult to measure. It's not anything that community safety division or the MEC can actually ascertain, but we would rely on our frontline councillors in different wards to actually give us that feedback, not just at resident engagement activity, but through their casework. And on the perception of safety on estates. And we've already had visits to estates on the part of both the residents and sex workers will be looking at the number of sex workers engaging with support services and the impact of that. So we've got an action plan here, which will be reviewed and updated on an annual basis in response to changing needs. The review cycle will involve cabinet members and multi-agency partners. We cannot do this on our own. Right. And it's very important that that reviewing progress with residents and experience and experts by experience is maintained. We've had good relationships with all of our partners on this, and it is interesting that the strategy will be published, including in an accessible and visually appealing easy read version for residents and professionals. The steering group of elected members was very keen that this should not be an academic. So we welcome the academic input that's been to this. It is important that we have an accessible, visually appealing easy read version for residents. Some would argue this is a brave approach. We think this is consistent with this council's values. It's human rights issues. It's about the importance predominantly women who have been so often stigmatized, treated by communities as not not not visible and yet very visible to some residents who can either exaggerate the issue or worse to actually make certain that are not dealt with in a properly supportive environment. I think I think I'll leave it there chair. Yeah, thank you very much. Is there anything else that Jason spread it to you'd like to add or Simon? No, nothing to add chair. All right. Thank you very much. I'm going to just add a couple of comments. This is amongst the most important pieces of work that we've done. I've had an illustration in the context of the day to day challenges facing people in economically precarious times. We know that often people are requiring and needing to do things that they wouldn't ordinarily countenance, and that's across all genders and none. But also we've got to remember and be reminded that there's this all important point of human rights and agency that women predominantly need to be supported in for their lives. And I know that this paper has been a long time coming to formal cabinet, but the work has been prolonged and necessarily so. We have sought to sensitively engage with a whole range of voices and groups, including those from our communities that for a whole host of reasons are disturbed and feel uncomfortable with the real hard truths of life and our society. And we've got to ensure that those individuals engage in sex work in our neighborhoods, on our streets, indeed, even online are protected. And we also have got to ensure that our residents feel that we take their safety and the environments in which they live with their families seriously as well. And I think that we've achieved a very good balance. And I want to commend the work of officers. Simon Rees is online and I know that he has been cast with a high challenge area of work by the administration, but he's really raised far in his diligence and death handling of sensitive issues that we are needing to face. I know that there have been concerns on part of some of the important stakeholder groups, particularly those that advocate for women that operate in this space of the actions of the police and some of the hostility. I know that those engaged in this line of work have had to face by the institutions that are there to support them in line with our commitment to equality and human rights. And that's something that I want to commend them for being brave and having courage, engaging with us as a local authority, given the deep and extensive levels of mistrust. I think the way in which we've approached this has been noticed by a range of partners, including the GLA and the Met Police and MOPAC. And I wanted to commend Councillor Alma Verdi on that front alongside Sean McDermott, who is our director of community, in getting people to cause and think deeply about our duties and obligations across all of our community. And that residents living in these neighborhoods, the individuals that pursue this as a necessary means to survive, but also being really clear about those individuals that procure by purchasing services and how that is being conducted on our streets. And in front of, you know, our activities as we go about in our day-to-day lives. I know it's caused a lot of concern, but I'm very hopeful that in the context of Noom, a borough made of so many wonderful communities and a range of diverse voices and perspectives. There's one thing that is a hard truth. We have a borough where people look out for each other and care. And I say that in the context of a meeting that I had in the autumn last year with residents on one of our estates. And they have been having to deal with the impact of sex work in their estates on a day-to-day, week-to-week basis. And it is unpleasant. And it is unpleasant. And it's not healthy. It's not right. The families, particularly those families with kids, are having to deal with the consequences of this activity. And I say that in all neutrality and with no prejudice, the insecurity that these individuals that engage in sex work face, particularly predominantly women. The degree of sympathy and empathy that was displayed in that room in an audience of some 50 residents was palpable and it was really touching. And they thanked the council for the sensitivity in which we are approaching these very serious issues. And we're approaching this with a public health lens as we do across a lot of things that we do. And with an eye to early intervention and supporting people to live more financially secure lives, regardless of what they choose to be in a country where liberty and freedoms are important as are human rights. So I just wanted to say thank you to you, Neil Montaz. I know, Sarah, you've been involved, Councillor Amaverde, but also all of the officers, Jason and Simon, especially. Thank you very much. I'm going to open up to questions. I've got Councillor Madeleine Pontin, Councillor John Whitworth and Councillor Sarah Ruiz. Madeleine Sally Pontin, Deputy Cabinet Member for Education and Councillor for First Gate South. I want to reiterate the mayor's thanks. I was also in that meeting with the mayor and was truly humbled by our residents' group response in that meeting to their most vulnerable fellow residents' situations that they sometimes find themselves in, which leads to sex working within Newham. And it's really, really positive to see that this report not only focuses on our most vulnerable, but focuses in preventative work with our most vulnerable communities in which they live and which they currently are working. So you've looked at the supporting not only of the sex workers as part of human rights, but also the human rights of the families and the other residents in the estates. And I think that's a really groundbreaking and really amazing effort that our four council leads and the many officers that have supported them and the partner organisation. So thank you so much for that. Our colleagues have mentioned the cross-generational first childhood experiences and trauma affecting the sex workers and also their children and wider families. And I think that's fantastic. And the whole thing's being seen through the public health lens. What I wanted to ask an actual question is within the focus of preventative work, how is it that you've managed to rise to the engagement of sex workers with these supportive bodies? I think that can be consistent. OK, thank you very much. Shall I take a range? Let's answer. OK, so it is highlighted in the report that we had engagement online, but also in person. We had as a series of cabinet leads engagement with the relevant ward counsellors, we've also gone and we've spoken to obviously those with lived experience in safe conditions. We had experts leading that in terms of support, because obviously it's trauma informed. You need experience in that regard to actually incur the trust and to maintain that trust and support. So that engagement is continuing because there's a reference group which is volunteered to actually make certain that they're continually engaged in this review of the action plan. So it is not something certainly done to residents or to sex workers. And I think we need to stress that from the outcome. Just to highlight what you said, Madeline, there about we're exploring the balance between an enforcement and support approach to sex work. But also key priority four is breaking down barriers, which is a holistic approach that acknowledges poverty and economic inequality integral elements of sex work. At the same time as having a communication strategy on the same section in partnership with sex workers and residents to develop an effective communications strategy that reflects both reflects that former informed approach through the use of language, which is appropriate and supportive, as I've said. And we are to create we are creating a new web page with information about accessing support safe for those who are engaged in this activity, but also about how residents can lead into a process. And that's what we want to be part of what community safety and health and health and adult social care are really exercised on. We want to get this right, but we cannot get it right in this very difficult environment. if the women themselves predominantly women feel vulnerable and are not actually participating in that and it's a them and us situation it's got to be a coalition yeah okay um i've got john whitworth yeah councillor john whitworth cabinet member for ecology and climate emergency i'd like to add my recommendation for this um uh very comprehensive strategy you know you're helping from a long period of working energy work and my question really follows on actually from cancer um sorry response uh particularly um services interact with sex workers to help those who show a desire perhaps to to um exit this work what sort of support is available in regard considering the reasons that we can leave them into this and work in the first place yeah um i'd like to bring in if that's all right chair um fiona or daniel on the exiting approach because we have to be careful we're not judgmental in the whole of where we're saying that people should exit and people exit like people come in at various stages due for various factors i just want to before if that's okay i'm passing over to officers say that we're exploring on page four seven eight of the bundle the balance between an enforcement and support approach throughout which involves obviously many agencies as possible there's the women who are dedicated police uh officers engaging and confident there but also adults health and social care commission services and substance abuse services so people could exit but they have to have a support package and it's about you know it may be drug dependency it may be all other factors so all right to bring in fiona on the exiting one of course hello thank you for the question it's a really important one um i think that there's there's there's two things to kind of add to what um cancer wilson just said part of what the evidence base showed us was very clearly that establishing that our goal for the service is for people to exit is a major factor in them not engaging with the service because frankly that feels like too much if you can't afford food if you haven't got a secure roof over your head if you are going through procedures around your children being taken away from you if you have mental health problems or substance misuse problems those are the things those are your priorities at that point in time in terms of getting some of those things kind of um fixed as far as as far as we can our approach um kens have also mentioned that we have hubs um part of the approach and hubs to kind of um support the the sex workers to trust us and to engage with us so we can begin to do some of that work is to offer them simple things like somewhere to wash wash their clothes wash themselves have a shower have something hot to drink have something hot to eat um access kind of basic advice information about things like benefits or whatever else there's a there's a there's a definite element of trust building to all of that what we're trying to do and we are successfully doing so for example all of the hubs are in the premises of the substance misuse service so there are staff from that service there to begin that engagement with people around if they do have substance misuse problems um we have had some great joint work with our mental health trust in that they have a crisis cafe and they now have some specific sessions for sex workers to go in and ask for advice on their mental health so it's a bit like we need to bring the support to the sex workers we we we cannot expect them as we would not expect any other vulnerable group of people to run around various different kinds of um services or centers to kind of get their needs met and we have to start with their priorities for their needs that may lead to exiting it may not but we we need to get we need to deal with the kind of the presenting issues that a lot of them have there's huge complexities there with a lot of the people that we work with yeah okay thank you very much and then a counselor Sarah Lewis yeah uh counselor Sarah she's deputy mayor cabinet member for environment sustainable transport children services and education um so i have i mean it's for the first time for quite a long time i felt that this had been a one council approach to this to this issue so um i would say it i think we've all learned a lot including our partners and i think if i look at how the police the police's attitude at the beginning so what it is today i think it's been a real road traveled on that um but part of and i think that the meeting that both the mayor and councillor Salipontin attended shows how actually if things are explained then actually our residents become far more sensitive to the to their needs but we also have to recognize that for many of our sex workers there are children involved and i think that gone are the days where the automatic would be oh my goodness you're a sex worker you can't have your children and and and that is credited i think to certainly in newham to children's social care who not only will the women have access to our to the hubs but actually we can put then in wrap around care for their children to our family hubs through our children's centers so it is a may not be the whole council approach but actually there is a a significant um position that we have come to actually through this work i think that it's taught us a lot and the very fact that it's taken us you know quite a long time not quite as long time as some other task and finish groups but um it's because we've actually worked in a really sensitive collaborative way and and that is credit to the offices and there are offices behind the offices on the screen but actually the the workshops the way in which they have supported us to support the women the um the vast majority of people that we have spoke um means that actually our our women are there in their most vulnerable place for all sorts of reasons i mean we shouldn't we shouldn't say that i mean not all choose but actually many have been trafficked many are victims of of modern day slavery uh which in turn means that their children are affected so you know it isn't necessarily um just the uh the fact that it's the oldest profession in the world and and we also do recognize that this includes um young men boys sometimes um you know we shouldn't shy of actually accepting that this isn't just women this does this does include um men and boys and and certainly some of the work that we've been doing with our care leavers because they are a very vulnerable group is around you know protecting yourself etc etc so i mean i think you know this is has been a really um in for me actually quite an interesting piece of work i've learned an awful lot and and i will take that forward in in the work that i'm can do with with various arts and services so thank you yeah okay no question of course okay any right councilor i'm a verdict yeah councilor i'm a verdi cabinet member for housing needs i'm just as private rental sector and community safety and crime i think it's a demonstration for us as a council and as a collective how we work effectively together with residents and those getting lived experience i think one of the key things that i've picked up through the demonstration was having a line of communication using appropriate language i think this is a really really good learning curve for all of us involved here as cabinet members and executive and officers and as a whole council of how we collaborate with lived experience and and the community i think one of the key things around the action plans is how we continue that pathway as rightly mentioned by council of wilson this will be reviewed on a regular basis to ensure due diligence and accountability and i think one of the key things for me and others in our role is about how we've effectively gone out and engaged with the community as well at the same time whether it's been myself going to different parts of the borough and same with with the wider cohort of experts that came in to help and support that because i think that's fundamental in terms of how we build this line of communication which is sometimes taboo i think that's what's really important for me so i think what i've found as part of the process of going through such a sensitive subject matter is some of the things that we might have not considered like council ruiz mentioned about exploitation modern day slavery and how partners like the metro police come along the way to change a perception and how they've actually embraced some of the work that they would actually normally do and change the perception of how they would engage with such subject matters so i think what what is testament to the partners involved in this um they've seen a different approach is kind of a different way that we to take this so just testament to everybody involved of how we can actually do this in a methodological way with the right people involved and residents are key part of that yeah so that's thank you chair i'm going to take um councillor blossom young and then councillor montaz khan um thank you chair uh councillor blossom young cabinet member for housing landlord and tenant experience um like colleagues i really want to commend the um whole team that have worked on this report which which feels um really pivotal actually in in in the approach that we are taking around um this really important issue and and that real balance between those working um in sex work and also residents who are impacted by by the um by the impact of that um and and i think it's a really sensitive approach and i think that the uh one council approach is incredibly important with that and i really recognize the kind of depth of work and engagement that has taken place to get uh to this point of the of the school and i guess there's something about um this is a 10-year program with a one-year action plan something about how i've no doubt be alive and that this is an ongoing piece of work but i wonder in terms of focusing on kind of there there are a lot of actions uh for for a one-year period with a review process to be setting for the next year given um given the complexity of some of the challenges involved um slides whether whether there is room to think about a kind of longer time frame for thinking through the actions in terms of actually getting to some of those uh those outcomes so we're not going to get there quickly with a lot of it i think that's an important challenge to us as a team of the elected member team will be looking at the quarterly um progress made on them the action plan itself is obviously for one year only but there's a load of things for instance in in response to what councillor is saying about support for family connectivity interventions which focus on maintaining family connectivity where and where safe focus can be children with their mothers or maybe mother-child relationships that's to be established within the cyp directorate but it'd be for us sarah and myself as a coordinating cabinet lease to make certain that officers are tasked but also that we're informed and how how we may shape that so this there's three problems really the quarterly review because we want to get it um continuing process for the first year action plan then the and there's obviously the reference already but it's more important as well to get that in terms of the figures i mean uh the outcomes of engagement from the project which is already commissioned validated or with measures about safety accommodation support network legal which we haven't mentioned health and well-being i'd also throw into the mix the needs of a range of sex workers have been addressed like sarah was indicating lgbtqia so the full gamma of those male sex workers or boys in fact trans sex workers disabled and online sex workers and the thing which we haven't mentioned so far in this discussion the very important engagement with faith and group leaders because so often people have um used and i think as a man of faith myself have used their faith to actually be an impediment of real engagement being too dismissive and on to a sort of if you like a a sort of negativity and you know without even opening up about the discussion has already been highlighted the more we have this discussion the more that it becomes less um threatening for people to discuss the more safe we can make it for the discussion to take place some of these are going to be easier yes by definition i don't think that any of the the team would argue this from the cabinet or the officers this is going to be easy or three stages it's over 10 years certainly not for that sort of you know this this this action plan may in year two it may not more populated but also have the evidence there exactly yeah great thank you yep and then i had uh sorry sorry it doesn't feel like one test can um deputy cabinet member for health and adult social care it doesn't feel right if i didn't mention uh something today um this has been a process you know it's a very sensitive issue it's it's been a lot of work um uh done by officers as well as um um members and the contribution of um those members who are not here um i think uh one of the things that was raised by councillor whitworth i just wanted to mention that um uh 4.26 to 4.29 does go into some details about the um the um the um level of support and the organizations who working with sex workers uh it goes into details about who and where um and what services are available um i know um a lot of um work has gone into this report and the overwhelming support from this room um um and i'm just hoping that we we can carry on um working on this strategy i mean it it talks about the quarterly um uh group that's going to work on it and we'll meet and review quarterly so i'm looking forward to doing some work with my colleagues here great thank you very much um madeline um i was i was going to say that um i've really noticed um the difference in the approach the police so thank you to colleagues and the audience confirmed for um their in-depth work with the community policing as well as specialist groups i've had the um privilege to go out on nighttime and with the police and with council officers and have really been impressed with the way in which they um approach uh users as services to help discourage them and move them on and uh start to actually give out the appropriate notices to those who are encouraging the trade the sex work trade by using it as well as their um the way in which they work closely with residents to keep them and their families and their estates safe and clean and free of antisocial behavior and the sex workers themselves to ensure that they're safeguarded so thank you for all of your work with that okay thank you very much um um so colleagues i've explored this conclusion if you could go to your recommendations page 428 for the reasons set out in the report and it's appendicitis cabinet is recommended to agree 3.1 so that the council adopts the new sex work strategy 2025 to 25 and a cup in sex work strategy action plan and their content noting that the final versions will be enhanced into accessible and visually appealing documents residents and professionals 3.2 approve the use of high to high level outcomes which will be used to measure the effectiveness of the strategy and action plan on a quarterly basis and those are crime uh antisocial behavior perceptions of safety on estates numbers of sex workers engaging with the elisa project and other service areas and outcomes of engagement with the elisa project across a validated tour with measures taken at commencement during at the end and at the end of engagement a cabinet members only is that agreed great thank you very much right now we're going to be moving through the main um focus of today's cabinet and that is the um paper december 2024 finance review draft budget proposals for 2025 26 now i know that there's quite a lot that we're going to be discussing i'm going to um request that we do it in this order firstly i'm going to be inviting legal ice and an update that all cabinet members especially need to be alert to and then i will be inviting uh council's author ali in his role as cabinet member for finance and resources to introduce the report i will then be um turning to our section 151 officer comrade hall um and deputy andrew ward to provide any additional comments and then i will be opening up to questions uh and i'll take them uh two at a time and then we will conclude the debate and then move to the vote on the basis of the recommendations so before we start most of that over to you thank you members i just wanted to address a point of clarification in relation to the restriction on voting where a member who has two months or more arrears in council tax and members will know that that applies at four council meetings but the provisions do also extend to meetings of the executive where any resolution or recommendation might affect the making of such a calculation so um it's just to bring that to members attention and advise if a member does feel that they're in that situation that they refrain from voting on the council tax calculations today okay fine thank you very much so please bear that in mind when i get to the vote now so could you want to come and sit in that shaded part that's why we're all about to drown this all right i'll end up just looking at it thank you okay over to you all right thank you uh chair castles of carly cabinet for five courses yeah first of all i would like to thank the mayor cabinet my executive colleagues and indeed our corporate management team and staff for their hard work in bringing forward proposals for draft budget for 25 26 and this is indeed a result of a tremendous amount of effort and time and challenging each other which brought about the proposals which are contained this report i would also like to say at the outset that this council and administration is committed to do its best to deliver quality services for our residents who deserve respect dignity and quality services from us the draft budget for 25 26 proposals reflect the intent of the mayor and the cabinet to prioritize local investment and the intervention and preventative models of service delivery at a time when we must demand efficiency value for money and transformational improvements to ensure that every penny and pound we spend for the benefit of our residents is spent wisely as we all know chair the situation we face in coming years is exceptionally challenging and unprecedented pressures we face not of our own making and i must say we're not alone in the crisis that we are facing in the we and the rest of country is facing now is as a result you all know that is uh of a disastrous story it's management of the economy inability of glory government to serve and support residents and communities at the hardest times we have faced high interest rates high inflation rising homelessness and funding cuts during the last 14 years this has resulted in almost lost of over a quarter of our base budget our base budget is feeling 95 million pound if you look at the cost of homelessness and ta is substantially a lot more than so the government has failed to address social care reforms you may remember treason may standing on the footstep of number 10 downing street making a promise that i will sort out the social care reform here we are the fair funding formula is long as standing commitment of any government and that hasn't been addressed and now the latest the homelessness crisis all the challenges however i am pleased to say that there is a ray of hope on the horizon the new labor government has only been in post just over five months and it is encouraging to see that they recognize the difficult situations councils are facing and they have promised to address the core issues face and we welcome the new government's seriousness in supporting local authorities and they have demonstrated this to some extent by initially bringing forward the local government financial settlement which was published well before the tory used to publish this it used to be literally in the day before christmas and they've also promised that in future they'll be looking at multi-year funding approach from next year this is what local government association authorities we've all been asking for because this helps us to plan our mtfs far better simply cannot plan ahead for just one year funding base especially when relying on two-thirds of the funding from the central government so they've also you've all seen that they want to address poverty issues they want to build 1.5 million homes these are the policies and actions that will no doubt help colleagues you will note that this is a draft budget and the government even though has published local government financial settlement which was provenal in in december will produce a final uh local government financial settlement mid-february and this will be part of our final budget proposal when we go to the cabinet again and then the full council as i said earlier are facing serious challenges homelessness is having the worst impact in new facing unprecedented situation with nearly 37 000 residents on our homelessness list out of those there are 7 000 who are currently being accommodated through temporary accommodation and nightly accommodation which is the cost we are having to face we have the greatest impact in england there are nearly 50 new cases coming through our doors on a monthly basis we're having to accommodate these people to meet our statutory duties and of course also to provide them a roof over their head as they deserve respect and dignity i'm sure my colleagues customer i'm a wordy can shed more light in terms of what is being done to tackle the crisis within the means that we have clearly this is something most of this is outside our control the impact of tea as it stands is beyond our ability to manage on our own at the cost of rising and if you look at the numbers they are well over 40 percent of the total budget we have but we have statutory functions to perform that social care children services two third of our budget is already going towards those two critical services and the demands and pressure are rising because of the the the failures of previous government so we do have many challenges but this report provides substantial details in terms of the draft budget for next year and indeed mtfs has assessed this is draft figures are forecast figures change things as things do change on a regular basis because there are internal and external factors which influence those assumptions but i'm pleased to say that our officers have been extremely good in terms of their intelligence their professionalism and the forecast has generally been pretty good you note that in august we reported mtfs gap of 175 million of which 106 million was ta cross cost and now this gap has been reduced to 157 million in the current budget forecast of which again 106 million is the ta forecast and the the there's 84 million of that budget forecast the gap is projected for 25 26 financial year so having gone through those calculations calculations and forecast vigorously and through very challenging process you have also identified 79 million pound of savings so this is not an easy task very painful process at all levels including independent scrutiny to to identify those savings there are other services that we did look at as the report indicates but we decided not to take those at this point in time because those were mostly universal environmental services type which are critical in terms of keeping our borough nice and clean and environmentally friendly in the mpf's proposal the saving proposal reduced the projected gap to 51 million in 25 26 and 77 million in 27 28 financial year a further 6 million could be found if we agree to increase the council tax by 10 percent rather than 4.99 which is assumed as part of the local government financial settlement the government expects us to increase it by that amount if agrees this will but this will mean that for 25 26 financially the budget currently stands at 46 million gap colleagues you will note that this is still less than the forecast increase in cost of temporary accommodation which is 52 million so despite what we could do simply isn't enough to bridge the gap as such like many other authorities we have gone to the government to seek approval for exceptional financial support this is to enable us to dispose of our assets to raise capital receipts which can be used to bridge the gap we do have substantial asset base we are confident if the government allows us to do that we can sell those in a timely manner to bridge the gap by no means report says clearly this is a sustainable financial strategy this will only get us through for next two to three years and the problem will continue to remain unless the government delivers its commitment to support local authorities you will note in the report that we had we had we not had the ta challenges which is it's a very crucial point in fact if we did not have the ta challenge our mtf position over the next three years will would have been in surplus rather than deficit which clearly demonstrates we are managing our resource resources robustly exceptionally well you're faced with a challenge that is beyond our means and if that was not the case then we would have been in a far better position than we are today and that's the fact that we is part of our mta efs application and this is why we think our application is is robust and is likely to succeed but clearly we're waiting for the outcome so that application is still with the government some initial indications seem positive i will leave that to come to conrad and abby to comment later on if they wish but as i said earlier it is a robustness of the application should enable us to be successful because we can easily demonstrate we've looked at everything have and we have done everything we could have done in order to find saving efficiencies and services reduction where possible and sensibly and that's what we've done as part of the budget setting process we have undertaken engagement residents councillors and other stakeholders their general support of the financial difficulty the council faces due to homelessness and pressures in adult social care and children and young people services and the difficult choices the council has to make at this time thanks now as i said earlier the local government financial settlement already assumes that we will increase that by 4.99 percent our application to the government for the efs is proposing a further increase of five percent i.e a total increase of ten percent and just for the benefit of the audience listening every one percent of council tax raises roughly one million pounds if we look at the comparison of how a council tax with other london authorities we are currently the sixth lowest council tax authority for example for bendy property in newham our council tax is one thousand two hundred fifty two pound and ninety four pence and this compares to a london average for a been similar bendy property of fourteen hundred fifty six and five pence to show that we are sixteen percent lower based on that if the government did allow us to increase the council tax to ten percent our assessment is that we will still remain amongst the lowest quartile in london and our position may change from six to the seventh that is the current estimate that we have in terms of the impact got details in the report five percent increase in band d will be one pound twenty pence per week and if we were approved to go to ten percent that impact will be two point four one pence per week i'm sure we can see how people spend pounds and cigarettes and cups of coffee etc but this is clearly there are people who have difficulties and we recognize the the poverty level in our barra and the needs of our residents so we consulted our residents and that process is is still ongoing initially the proposal was to reduce this from 90 to 70 percent but this draft budget proposes that we take up that to 80 percent so those who are eligible for the council tax reduction scheme will get if approved 80 percent reduction in their council tax and currently there are 18 000 people who benefit from the existing scheme if they lift the council tax by 10 percent and change the council tax reduction scheme to 80 percent support rather than 90 percent than the recipients in bendy have to pay three pound 59 a week we recognize the difficulties some residents may have and we will support those we all hear in national press and from various charities that there are many people nationally who are missing on their entitlement of various benefits and this is due to lack of awareness and understanding or help and i can say here we will endeavor to increase our efforts to support those who could claim additional benefits where necessary and i also say that this proposal of cancer track reduction scheme brings us in line with our neighboring boroughs currently the range of the authorities as you will see in the report is from 50 percent to 85 percent as a reduction support as i said earlier this proposal is subject to approval particularly as we are requesting the government um to allow us to do that through the bespoke referendum arrangements this is expected announced in february as he said earlier and it will be included in the local government financial settlement final proposals which will also indicate which authorities are going to be permitted to increase the council tax beyond five percent so this clearly shows you that there are many other authorities same route you know just rather than us so we await for the government to see in and our i'm pleased to say that our chief executive and our corporate director of finance have been in touch with the ministry on a regular basis and i'm sure they will say a few words after me finally chair as i said earlier i'm fairly confident that our efs application is robust enough to succeed however in the unlikely situation where the government does not approve this or proves it in part only we will have to take urgent and serious drastic action to look at further savings however acknowledging the scale of savings that will be required and the needs of our residents it would be exceptionally challenging for us to to do that having said that we're not standing still work will continue including lobbying the government until the final budget is approved and obviously that is dependent on efs successful application now finally i must stress that this is a draft budget and we still have the engagement process which is ongoing we still have internal scrutiny process to go through and the outcome of efs as i said earlier will then be able to get the final budget to the cabinet in february and before the council on 27th of february so with those comments here i i commend the recommendation is report to the mayor and the cabinet because this is a demonstration of our ongoing commitment to build a fair and new and resilience in tough times thank you chair thank you very much okay colleagues um i'm gonna just come to some of the cabinet members to um invite them to highlight any elements as it may relate to their portfolio areas as a project there's a lot of detail in the reports so who would like to oh i'll go first i'll get you out of the way um i mean thank you so big um so i think you can talk to thank the and officers because it's probably the most stressful four to five months that we've had um because none of the decisions that we are having to make are easy you know we are we are not a council that has loads of slack money hanging around you know we are we are we're already down to the bare bones um children social care takes up a large percentage of the of the budget um probably quite rightly so they are really important children in our borough um but actually sophie talked about the government and how we need to continue our lobbying so i think it was just yesterday that they announced about the additional money and what they were going to do with uh special education needs and disabilities you know i won't need to say anything here that actually the money that has been allocated does not even touch the side of the deficit that across london just london have in their same budget um you know i think ours is currently standing at something like 12 million it it will grow it's not going to get any easier unless actually action is taken and then the biggest issue for us or or the biggest yeah is an issue as a cost of our placement and that isn't a new issue that is not just a london issue that's a nationwide issue and actually we have private um companies they can shed loads of money out the vulnerabilities of our children and i think that needs to be said loud and clear and i think the government needs to start acting on some form of cap because uh we probably i think maybe 15 to 20 of our children are costing us millions every year and it's not that they're well they are special obviously but it's not as if the placements that they're in are special special you know they are they are bog standard and the higher the need of our children the higher the cost of the placement um but it is extortionate but every decision that that we have made in children's we looked at the effect that it will have on our children and families uh because they are are most important we can't you know so the decisions that we have to make we have actually looked at the consequences because there will always be a consequence so in in looking at how we can save money we've looked at restructuring and looking at how we can promote the preventative agenda and that isn't just about you know being great for our budget but actually you know do all of our children need to be do they need to come into care is that is the way in which we can support families at an earlier stage so you know hence the family hubs uh that it's like a catching them early our children's centers those are the things that we have had to look at but obviously there are uh decisions that we've made um and one of them obviously is is debden and i'm not going to apologize for putting debden up for sale uh if we had a choice between fair play house and debden uh fair play is used by probably 90 of our schools every single week of the year uh debden campsite is used by 18 of our residents and that isn't every week of the year because as we all know that will only be mainly in the summer because that's nobody camps in the winter well i don't think so um so you know those are the choices that we've had to make and if we have to sell debden and you know i think that it's likely that the campsite will remain i mean when you can't build on it you can't farm it it's not it's land that is there protected then that's what we will have to do and and actually so because right if we don't get the emergency what the that the extra money yes efs then actually we will have to be looking at far far greater cuts or savings as we call them and you know we need to to keep on talking about the effect this the punitive 14 years have had on local government um so you know we have had to take all these measures and but it's always with the best interests of our residents and in my case children when you've made those decisions thank you okay thank you very much councillor wilson yes thanks very much chair so um from the point of view of adult social care i'll start in in regard to you know what um zorfica and thanks again for the hard work of zorfica as cabinet colleague and others um helping us along this difficult journey with our officers on page 46 it says that the updated medium-term financial strategy i'm sorry i i need to say it out before i get the letters muddled up otherwise but there's been 3 million for additional inflationary pressures in adult social care with provider costs because just the same as sarah has already alluded to we are working with um companies on a private basis they're private institutions uh that we've got provider costs in the market expected to increase due to two factors the national insurance rise and a five percent five point three percent increase in the london living wage now our ideology in this council is that we're supporting london living wages throughout this the uh issue is as highlighted on the table um across on page 48 is that the inflation uh just on adult social care um asc modeling in line with a 5.3 increase in london living wage is a cumulative impact of 11.25 million and we are dealing with some very expensive placements just as sarah's already highlighted the um growth estimates though are detailed thematically in that expanded i'll try and risk it this time mtfs and on page 49 it does say that 20 million for adult social care does cover demographic growth we have a young population the youngest population was us but it's no tower hamlets but we have an increasing number of elderly people that's why our aging well strategy is important for the preventative work that we're trying to do to save people um having either domiciliary care in their own homes but the very expensive um care packages that are in residential care 20 million for adult social care covers demographic growth price price inflation at a level that matches the northeast london network expectations because obviously people when they go into residential care are not necessarily placed within our borough boundaries and i'll talk about that in a moment about our borough placements and there's a structural budget gap between current budgets and current forecasts expenditure councillor ali rightly referred to the reform in adult social is he pushed primarily over the last 14 years into the proverbial long graph we have a commitment by the government i think last week in terms of how they're going to work in a cross-party way to ensure that there is a more sustainable and it needs to be connected with obviously three-year budget planning that we've already alluded to but also a more stable situation and it's important i think to stress on that uh modeling is that the inflation and the modeling is far more robust than we've ever had it and that is a tribute to our officers and particularly some really robust discussions i've had with private care providers on page 51 it alludes to the um current government grant funding obviously the government grants and i welcome the commitment by central government to actually have more um grants combined so that there is this uh a slightly easier way to um look at the um pots that are coming in on page 51 just as three i want to highlight which is relevant to the service area that i'm the cabinet lead for the asc the adult social care market sustainability and improvement fund we get 6.4 million so despite rising demand and prices this grant is actually cash flat so hence the real terms cut that's just one thing that highlights that further down the page there's an adult social care discharge grant which has been rolled into better car care grant but this this council along with all others does have an increasing issue with the health service sometimes making certain that the um discharge rates are from from adult uh acute care situations into um local authority care we need to make certain that that's a far more robust and sustainable footing it is quite obvious chair that the nhs budgets are also particularly in the northeast london area facing terrific pressures and our partners we work very closely with our partners in both parts health and east london foundation trust it's not to negate any of their pressures social care support grant has come in at 600 million um in additional funding across uh the whole of uh britain i think the whole of england sorry and so our funding allocation has only gone up by uh 6.9 million now you may say that sounds a lot of money but in the context of the very expensive provision and just like sarah's area this is um quite an expensive and um huge area of our budget costs i just want to highlight that on the mtfs revenue proposals clearly they have been worked at and worked at the challenge often is for people to say well you've had this time to restructure you've had this time to actually do more preventative work we've had uh revised um figures on the use of uh reprofiling of the better care fund that is highlighted under a16 uh that is an area that we'll continue to look at we're looking continually at promoting independence supporting people to access the right care and support at the right time maximizing independence and that we have a savings projection over the three years of 8.9 million it is in the context that we've delivered in fact 103 percent of our medium-term financial savings targets last time so we've overachieved but it doesn't mean that we're complacent i want to finally end up by saying share that the um modeling on the mtfs where i started it's not just about demographic pressures the increasing complexity of people living longer with more multiple conditions there are structural pressures based as evidenced by the latest monitoring we are doing grant recovery we're also looking at as many areas where we can and that is where i want to leave the debate from my point of view along with um sarah that we continue to explore avenues where we do more borough in borough provision where our supporting accommodation with we've got some exciting work already in place there haven't we with um transition work in terms of residential provision that we have more control we have more targeted interventions and then for our young people and adults we think better provision so the more we can develop our own provision using the supported um accommodation model uh the special purchase vehicle the more that we are able to make longer-term savings obviously they cannot be delivered you can't just take a building over because it's often needs to be adapted and and and modified and fully equipped but we are on a journey which i think is a potentially exciting one to make certain that we do reduce the costs in a a constructive way and most importantly for the needs of our residents it's a really good point and it acts to the early prevention and early intervention approach that has been a significant consideration in the budget discussions and challenge sessions that we've been having i'm going to move over to to councillor amma birdie in the context of temporary accommodation in the sun is feeling the heat now council presenting us with the financial channels that we face and once i've done that i'm then going to go to conrad hall and also his deputy andrew so that we can get some additional officer views and then i'll revert back to other cabinet members thank you chair yeah just as councillor ali highlighted um without the temporary accommodation pressures you know the council would have been in surplus right so it goes to show you in terms of financial management and due diligence the council how we are performing really well and i'd like to highlight 7.4 which in terms in shows like the governance that's been taken to ensure there's robustness of the forecast not being presented i think one of the biggest challenges on a micro level i'd actually describe it actually when it comes to temporary accommodation is the cost of nightly accommodation that we have to provide and one of the biggest challenges that we've seen is some of our providers that will provide accommodation um have actually gone for the process of actually increasing costs so that has a massive impact on a council in terms of provision that we're going to provide one of the biggest things we want to provide for residents is to ensure that they are in borough and they have secure accommodation which does provide a challenge its own one of the key things that i look at in terms of best practices where we look at examples of other boroughs and what they've tried to achieve and do i think that's some of the proactive work that's taken place to try and tackle some of the uh sort of costs that we've seen that have been incurring to us as a council whether that's policy we've looked at and reviewed to ensure that we're robust measures of how we ensure people are staying in borough and same again in terms of provision around they secured accommodation for six months 12 months and the longevity of it but those micro pressures that we have seen from providers that we normally use and those increased costs do have a knock-on effect in terms of our budgets that we have seen so on a micro level those are things that we have to contest with macro level you look at the housing crisis on a larger scale in terms of supply that we are trying to see so you've seen the government's commit to actually build which is a key thing that we to see as well at the same time and same as on a local level in terms of us and our provision to kind of build to support the temporary accommodation crisis i think one of the other things we have to contest with is obviously the sector at section 21 as well which obviously attributes to the increase and obviously people in terms of ta cases that we are seeing so it's another factor that we have to consider so some of the considerations we have to consider at this moment in time is external pressures of proper rental sector that incur costs as well for us i think one of the things that we have to ensure as a council and as a collective and as administrations that we collect to work in the preventative pathways as well one of the biggest things that we see is uh which we've picked up and identified is single people a number of single people that are in temporary accommodation and how long they have been there and one of the key things working closely with adults and health is the pathways that we create to ensure that people are not in this consistent path of temporary accommodation for a long time i'm really positive to see some of the pilot work that's being demonstrated same way we look at community land trusts and small sites as another option um 90 minute process as well how we try and ensure we still provide secure accommodation for people but some of the provisions that we don't have and honestly and candidly in terms of where we are we where we can't provide the means within newham which i know many many residents in newham do want and need based on the amenities that we have family connections and so forth the challenges that we have in terms of supply which has a massive impact on us as a council um just in terms of just the same beginning to the actions in terms of what i've seen recently one of the key things i've looked at in terms of temporary accommodation is that secured accommodation for six to twelve months in long term to bring down these costs but just as councillor ali highlighted these are one of the biggest pressures that we've probably seen not just unique to us as newham but to other local authorities i think what's really important as we have seen other local presentations that i have and other colleagues are having is how other councils now um the foresight to look at their temporary accommodation what needs to be done so that's just one of the sort of key things we have to highlight in terms of how the due diligence as a council we are put into place to ensure that the governance um foresight some forecasts are robust and you know the modeling on this is in appendix f for people to view and see and just ensure the proactive work that we're putting in terms of policy action pathways prevention is true so um that's what i'd like to highlight thank you thank you very much okay i'm now going to be moving to rad andrew um so we've heard from the principal members finance resources heard from three cabinet members where there are excruciating costs that are placing significant demands and pressures on the council leading to the budget position has been out in the cabinet report including as it relates to the mtfs three-year period and i now wanted to invite conrad to just talk through um that in uh part and then we'll move over to andrew thank you thank you very much uh my name is conrad hall i'm the council's corporate director of resources uh and therefore the statutory chief finance officer for the for the authority uh i should start uh i think by thanking the many people involved uh in bringing these proposals forward from uh political colleagues who have worked on them uh managers across the council and indeed the finance department ably led by uh by andrew uh some of what i say uh will include a degree of repetition i think it's probably important to do so to emphasize some of the key points in the report but i will keep things uh as brief as i i reasonably can uh in particular i wanted to highlight to you the financial section of the report of course it's a budget report it's all about finance uh but paragraphs 15.1 to 15.60 uh bear uh careful attention i would suggest but they include uh it's known as my draft section 25 statement uh the legal requirement for that and to set up at paragraphs 15.2 and three to be clear for the benefit of those watching uh the final version of that this will enforce the draft budget uh things will change final version of that uh will consist of my my formal advice as to cabinet but to all members of the council uh at the council meeting scheduled for the 27th of february as has been set out and is well known the financial situation uh is that is challenging i would highlight few in particular table 24 which appears at paragraph 15.23 of the report the point's been made but it bears emphasizing looking over three years and i'm rounding numbers a bit here for convenience we need savings in the order of 150 million pounds over three years excluding temporary accommodation that maybe would be more like five million pounds and considerably in excess of that in other words were the extraordinary housing pressures that manifest itself on our temporary accommodation budget but we would be able to manage and set a conventionally about current budget now of course one must live in the real world we can't just just say that those pressures uh don't exist but of course the point is is important to emphasize i think it's also important to emphasize that the provisional local government finance settlement which was announced just before christmas and is detailed in the report is clearly helpful to us table a to paragraph 7.11 uh set out uh that we have received some 34 million pounds more through that than we did on a like-to-like basis last year perhaps a little bit more than 25 percent uh increase there are some uncertainties in that you'll see on the table the figure for example on national insurance compensation we don't yet know for certain and i must particularly highlight the homelessness prevention brand where the headline figure increase of 6.6 million pounds looks very good what that means is that as a share of the national total our portion has gone down essentially what has happened the world funding has been allocated on deprivation that has been done in such a way uh sort of if you like regionally first so more that's been allocated to some other parts of the country less to london small proportion to london we have a greater proportion of that london london funding once you crunch all the numbers through despite being at the sharpest end of the crisis uh our grandfather has actually reduced as i emphasize that it's about future funding that passages uh the way that that may go it's not entirely welcome or new i think it is also worth making a point uh that some additional ring fencing has been introduced into that grant the implications of which we don't quite know yet despite those qualifications of course the substantial increase in funding uh is helpful but has been highlighted is on the rest and the report that sets out that we have approached the ministry housing communities and local government what is called their exceptional financial support scheme i'm aware of at least four other london boroughs that have made similar approaches i don't know the national figures uh except i am uh certain i'm not sure uh that it would be greater than 19 uh so neum is is not alone in that i emphasize again that we have not done so because of the mismanagement that has a small number of councils across combination funding and demand that we face our application uh to the ministry is in two parts so firstly capital receipts on which i just want to be clear those are our our assets to use as we choose we are not asking for permission to sell them do not need to sell them there are our assets that users choose we are asking for is flexibility to use to receive our day-to-day expenditure rather than to either reduce borrowing or finance future expenditure now for the avoidance of doubt i would highlight paragraph 15.27 i'll read it out because it's very short but this is not a sustainable strategy uh there is nothing in this report that suggests that this is an approach that can continue to work year on year on year on year uh and i will return uh to that but it's a little bit the second part of our application as council ali and others have emphasized is around council tax again just to be slightly technical for the moment uh the way the system works so it's called a referendum limit the standard level for which is so in other words if you want to increase your capital more than count five percent you must technical level what we have requested of the ministry is a bespoke minimum level of 10 in other words to be able to increase council tax by 10 percent very very strictly 9.9 uh without uh the need for that referendum uh and actually gave you the figures on that uh tad over one million a year per one percent or something like five and a half million each and every year worth in financial terms clearly one should not look at council tax solely in terms of the revenue to the authority uh one must uh make a political judgment on residents uh and for example again size point counts are being made once you were full the changes through including the support which would still be at 80 percent the most uh financially vulnerable that equates to an increase uh of something like three pounds a week depending on exactly what size property uh or as we uh listen uh a little less probably for the majority of our participants so if uh despite those significant measures uh this is not a sustainable financial strategy uh it is a question then then more but at 15.31 uh i describe this approach as essentially buying as a breathing space government has uh committed to a review of local government funding to be in place for next year long overview i might add and they have emphasized that they will be paying specific attention to how to wait that is why i've spoken a bit about homelessness prevention grant we must just be careful to be too complacent perhaps about the implications of that because as that allocation has shown a greater weighting to deprivation not necessarily translate greater share of resources for new and depending on exactly how to be uh it also gives government time for their hope for economic growth and housing properties to take uh effect uh which uh work clearly i'm sure everyone genuinely would want them to those would also start to reduce the pressures on our budget particularly in respect of temporary accommodation uh but of course uh it is possible uh that our application for exceptional financial support uh may be refused uh or indeed uh over the course of the next two or three years these reforms that i've spoken of do not come out in the way that we uh i think it would certainly be fair to say of course uh the efs application is a matter of the minister to decide uh but uh to the extent that i can comment i think uh i could be cautiously optimistic at this stage i certainly think the application is well constructed well evidenced uh and uh you know have some optimism that it will be approved i cannot give that uh that assurance but if it were not uh or if the government policies did not have the uh the effect that is hoped for then sooner or later uh i would be in a position of being compelled to issue what is called a section 14 notice paragraph 36 through to 15.3 of the report deal with that and i would highlight again if you're in particular paragraph 15.41 issuing a section 114 notice does not mean that the council can then choose not meet its not issuing such a notice would not mean we choose not to meet our housing duties social care duties and the many other statutory obligations that uh so it would not be uh a solution to the project urgent action i would emphasize and i set out in appendices eight uh and summarized in the report uh that we have identified over three years savings of uh almost 80 million very substantial so uh nonetheless paragraph 4.10 of the report uh i expect lots of things that uh if the application were not expected uh the council would do and indeed implement i won't read them out uh in the detail of the report there themselves but those are the things that we have on service delivery and more besides and i think this points to you know what i i think in fairness i can describe is a a broken system local government finance and indeed i'm speaking at the lga finance conference on this matter later today there is always more that we could do you know we should never lose cycle any organization succeeds when it has the belief there's always more that we can do in order to address the problems but nonetheless there is a fundamental impact level of funding available uh and the need for the government uh tackle that system and will help just you know the local government system as a whole either to increase uh and distribute more reasonably funding available in order to meet those needs or to contemplate uh which has been suggested difficult choices about you know what kind of level of provision those are not questions for me to answer uh but it is my responsibility to highlight that at the moment the system simply develop funding indeed and that is not financially sustainable newham's approach uh i'm satisfied as the most appropriate in the circumstances i do not describe it as sustainable in the long run that is a matter of the circumstances with newham but councils like those across the country i will pause there if that's all right uh andrew i think it would be appropriate to hear a little bit from him uh on some other aspects of the report if that's all right andrew thank you thank you uh so my name is andrew ward i'm the deputy director of finance and i'll try not to cover ground already already covered i would like to sort of respond to a few bits really that we've heard about for ready today um i am i'm quite pleased actually with the the work that's developed over the last few months regarding our estimates that is that the budgetary growth that we've uh put into this report to these proposals um that work will continue to develop but i think it's really uh become very important to understand and and explain within and without certainly to the organization the assumptions made in budgetary growth not just what those assumptions are uh why we have made them it's hard to uh predict the future completely accurately precisely rather um but i think we've uh good had a good go really at explaining those assumptions and demonstrating that that's reporting as well that's particularly true um with temporary accommodation which of course is the biggest and largest uh natural pressure this increasingly true uh in a social care where we also have very significant um budgetary pressures um um i'd also like to say thank you actually to the uh cabinet committee directors and their management teams particularly with the development of the robust um and well brought out savings plans in appendices a to c um councillor ruiz i mentioned earlier how challenging um putting this but this set of budget uh has been uh i think that's that's a broad concern with the professionals uh they care very much see that very much about the services so this this has not been easy grateful for this sort of professionalism um um the council is a a large obviously a large and complex organization uh the focus of much of the discussion naturally uh relates to to the general firm position of course this budget this set of budget proposals also covers uh the house revenue account in the plans for for managing that next year and it outlines the plans managing the dedicated schools grants which of course is done in corporation consultation with our colleagues who sit schools for and representing schools and academies across um and we also cover the public health grants are specific and providing bringing things to the capital program as well so we just wanted to sort of highlight okay thank you very much right okay so i'm going to come to any other cabinet member that wants to to flag anything as it relates to their areas and i'll come in with a few comments on some of those areas that we had considered but decided not to advance at the most recently subject to efs anyone yeah cool um so obviously 1.2 million savings over the mtfs period had been agreed you would have seen that um uh 2.2 million was um considered but not moved forward with i think it's important to note that um um this empowerment service as with children's um is integral to protecting our children and whilst many might see it as um something that is discretionary it is something that um makes sure that we are protecting our most vulnerable making sure that our young people have good life chances in newham um um the closure of youth services has only ever been associated with lower educational outcomes higher offending rates and in a borough like this is something that we can afford to see i think this is obviously i think this is obviously something that we can uh discuss at a future point but the 1.2 million savings was highly considered to make sure um obviously with the ending of the vcfs commission um but making sure that the provision of the youth empowerment services um is um functional to make sure that the children are still able to be able to get everything that they are able to out of the services and be able to um have the support that she reserved for us um and so yeah that's my comment on that and i guess if anyone has Thank you very much. Any other comments? So, questions? Actually, I've got a couple of comments to make. Look, you'll have heard a range of views, perspectives. It has been a really tough process. I wanted to similarly echo my thanks to all officers and the Cabinet and Deputy Cabinet and Commissioners involved in the varied and tough discussions we've had over recent months. On the council tax position, it is likely that Newham, with the proposals that we've put forward and if approved once we present a final budget, 25-26 will remain seventh lowest in London. And we have not been flagrant in our obligations and duties to serve our residents well, but also ensure that we protect and support those who are amongst the most vulnerable. Let's not forget that we have a mission and an intent and a purpose. That is to build a fairer Newham and to achieve outcomes we want to see for our people and for our communities. Newham is a huge amount of investment coming in, houses being built, including houses being built, the council. Millions, millions of pounds being invested in our council stock. We have a government that has made it clear its 10-year mission to reverse the damage that has been caused after 14 years of disastrous economic rule by the Conservative Party under their governments. We are going to need to be very alert to what impact that has had in our society, in our communities. Yes, where too many young people are being stabbed to death, too many young people are slipping through the net, too many young people consequently come to the radar or orbit of children's services, which is high cost. And actually, we need to be very early on preventative approaches. There is a body of evidence from amongst the world's leading experts, academics, policymakers know this stuff. It is mad and crazy not to be adopting preventative approaches. What that doesn't mean is we carry on doing things as normal in this council, as we have done for 20 years plus. We change and we change and we have got to be willing to change our thinking about how stuff is done and remove our instinctive prejudice about what needs to be preserved, what needs to be protected. That does include statutory services and how we do statutory services, because actually high costs is a mark of failure, failure of the system, failure of the way in which markets have been allowed to run riots. Councillor Sarah Roos made a very pertinent point about the drivers of high costs in care, in children's care, when you're needing to protect and safeguard kids that have been groomed and exploited into county lines. I can't even begin to imagine the pain right now that that 50 year old mother is going through, 14 year old child was stabbed to death on a London bus. That's not dissimilar to the things that used to happen in this borough, thankfully, less so. Our last murder was a young person, 16, in West Ham Park. Our youngest was 14 and in town. Meeting the parents of children that have been lost because of this scourge has to be a constant daily reminder as to why early intervention and preventative approaches are important and work. And we've got to make the case to government to those precious actors in the system that pursue profit. These are pension investment companies that are basically creaming profit back of damage in time. And we have a new government that wants to reverse all of that and we will play our part. So there's a lot of detail in the papers. There are proformers that set out rationality as top five things are being proposed. I think on Debden House, we need to articulate very loudly that 18% of those that visit Debden are from Newham, the vast majority or not. And yes, there will be questions asked, how can we let go and be prepared to let go of something beautiful and green and lovely and luscious for all of our residents to benefit from, but not all of our residents benefit from. We have to make hard choices. We have to make hard choices. Those choices will be tough, but let's not lose sight of our building a fair and new and purpose and vision, particularly and especially. In such high precarious and economically challenging times and our duty and our obligation is to support our residents, as well as protect them, but support them to lift themselves up. And to increase and improve their financial security, help develop their resilience and thrive across stages of life. We've always placed a premium and a value on early years, early intervention, giving the best start in life to our kids, what we're going to then extract amongst the most difficult phase of a young person's life during their adolescence or teenage years. We're going to step back. We know the damage that causes, look at the damage that we're still having to deal with because of the COVID-19 years, the scale of wellbeing issues presenting amongst our kids. Again, the exploitation that is no longer at the scale that it used to be six years ago here in this borough, because we've made a commitment and we're being intentional about our approach. And finally, as it relates to the council, the budget paper will also set out ways in which we will inject different ways of thinking about how we do stuff. We can still afford to continue wasting money at the council. Let's be really frank, money has been wasted. And we have got to preserve something so important, which is the trust that we have earned amongst our residents over six hard years. And we're going to need to work and ensure we maintain our commitment to our residents around excellence. Service delivery by the council. And that also means every penny and pound is spent well. And we see and demonstrate and amplify the outcomes we are achieving. And that means broadcasting, communicating clearly, creatively, truthfully, honestly, and well. We haven't been good at that. That's going to stop. We're going to commence with an engagement with our residents, other value partners in our borough, small businesses, medium sized businesses, innovators, entrepreneurs, large scale businesses to invest in Newham are here and want to invite others to come as well. Our counsellor colleagues, including those on scrutiny, scrutiny has a legitimate role to play. There will be perspectives. Life is full of perspectives. But I know that we are right, because we are driven by mission and purpose, which is building a fair in Newham to address systemic inequality, tackle poverty, lift people up, and help them out. I'm going to come to questions now. So I've got councillor Boston Young. Thank you, Chair. I wanted to ask about the engagement process that we have gone through to date. It's referred to in the report, but particularly with council colleagues, with other stakeholders, and particularly with residents, and also how this process at this draft stage will move forward. Thank you very much. And then I'm going to take councillor. Do you want me to go now? Yeah, please. Thank you, Maya. I think I'm very much for early intervention work. And I'm glad that you've mentioned a lot about steps into early intervention in housing. The question that I did have was about EFS application. Where are we with that? And whether we're able to talk about plan B, if the application. Okay. I'll make a start and I'll get help to come in. Yeah, engagement, councillor Young, there is a section in the report which actually lists the whole report. We've gone, we've had six sessions, I believe, with residents, you know, some of them are faith-based, some of them are aligned. I think quite good participation cross-sectionally as well, and demographically. The sessions were pretty good, well-held, very positive feedback in terms of the challenges. As I said in my introduction, residents do feel that we are in a difficult situation, and I think there's like a glee that it is not something that we could have done. It's the national situation, and there is the support in that regard. Yeah, but there's been sessions with councillors as well, and clearly we've been through various scrutiny sessions as well, and they're more planned between now and February. Anything else, Conrad? Okay. All right. All right. Not really, thanks. I know, on the engagement, as you say, it's been about 13.314. Going forward, a clause there will be subsets, engaging quickly, and through, you can continue to engage, you know, residents or other stakeholders safe and appropriate. In terms of exceptional financial support, that is something that will be determined ultimately by the Minister. I describe myself as cautiously optimistic about that, which I think is probably as much as I can say at this stage. If it's not protected, then I would exercise sexually reporting for the breath finish form, but as I tell, and yes, the source of this would be more, but they would not be enough to solve them. Yeah. Thank you. There is just a fundamental myth. Okay. Any other questions? No? Fine. Colleagues, there is an extensive recommendation, which I am not going to read out because it will probably take me an hour. Okay, 36. Page 36. And I wanted to just draw your attention to recommendations covering page 36 all the way to top of page 38. So that's section two. And then from the first sentence, season set out on the report and its appendices, the Mayor and Cabinet are recommended. And then it goes from 2.1, sorry, all the way to 2.12. So that's 2.12. So that's 2.12 to note that the MHCLG have advised that applicants for EFS by any council are unlikely to be determined until late February 2025, and that we should consider setting a reserve date for full council early in March, the arrangements for which are in hand. So Cabinet members only, do we agree the recommendations as set out on bid page number 37? Agreed. Agreed. Agreed. Agreed. Okay, thanks. Thank you very much. Right. On that note, we are going to final agenda items in the agenda pack, exclusion of the present public. And then can we just note, and I'll need agreement to formally note, agenda item eight, exempt appendix, draft budget proposals for 25-26, and those are contained across pages 505 and 514. Cabinet members only, can we agree to note those? Yeah. Great. Yeah. Thank you very much, everyone. I look forward to seeing you at the next meeting of Cabinet, which will be later this month. And in the meantime, I wish you well. Oh yeah, sweet. Huh? Okay. Thank you very much.