Cabinet - Tuesday, 7th May, 2024 10.00 am
May 7, 2024 View on council website Watch video of meetingTranscript
Thank you very much, good morning, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to this meeting of the Cabinet of Buckinghamshire Council. It's an honour to be here. I've actually just been away for two weeks, so it's back in the saddle first thing on this morning. After a fairly wet drizzly bank holiday, somebody I saw posted about it being a typical bank holiday for England yet was. It really, really was. If you put it ghastly, yes, there wasn't any hammering down certainly this part of the world. Can I just remind members that although we can hear everybody in this room extremely well, if you don't use your microphones, the reason you must use the microphones is because this meeting is being webcast. If you don't use the mics, your voice will not be recorded, but it does look very strange when you watch your webcast, when you can see somebody's mouth moving, but can't actually hear a word they're saying. So the mics are very important. We all forget from time to time, clearly myself, but I won't job people's memories if they do that. If there's anybody here who does not want to be webcast, in the words they have personal reasons for not being on the camera, there are seats reserved whereby people can go and sit in those places and then be out of the camera range. And I know there's very shy, retiring wallflowers in this room who may wish to avail themselves of that. OK, I think that's most things I wanted to say immediately. So we just launched straight into the meeting. In terms of apologies for absence, Stephen Rawbann, one of the deputy leaders is not able to be here today, so we could just register Steve's absence. That would be great. Have we had any other apologies for absence? Don't see or hear of any. If I could maybe just welcome a new attendee to these meetings, Lisa Murray, sitting to my right to place this down, is our new head of legal. This is your first meeting, I think, at a cabinet meeting. You're very welcome. You can enjoy the delights of the meeting of Buckhamshire Council Cabinet, and you're here in your role, I believe, as deputy monitoring officer, so you're very, very welcome indeed. The minutes of the last meeting is the second item on the agenda. They have been previously circulated. They relate to the meeting held on the 25th of March, and they're on pages 5 to 10 of the agenda pack. Maybe I could just say for anybody watching this meeting for the first time, all the papers are available online. It's a lot easier if you actually look at the papers as we talk about them, because members may refer to particular pages or particular paragraphs, and it'd be more meaningful if you can see the context of what's being discussed. I will try and remind everybody of which pages we're on as we get to each item on the agenda. But the minutes of the last meeting are on pages 5 to 10 of the pack. They have been circulated. Members have had the opportunity to make amendments to them. This is really a final bite in the cherry in terms of any final tweaks you'd like to make into those minutes. Do you agree they are a true and accurate record? If agreed, I will then be signing them as such. Thank you. Item three on the agenda is Decorations of Interest. Again, just for anybody watching for the first time, every member sitting here has already made decorations of interest. They're on the register and available on the website. This is the opportunity for any additional decorations of interest. Having seen the agenda, there may be some items here that suddenly you think to say, hang on a minute, I'm somehow involved in that particular issue in some way, either in a personal or pecuniary way. It's an opportunity to make that known to the public. Again, I'll just pause to see if any members wish to lodge an additional declaration of interest. See now. I assume now to be declared. We move on to item four, which is Hot Topics. Hot Topics is not everything that we've done over the last couple of weeks. I won't be describing my two weeks away in detail, but it is an opportunity for members to update both the public, the media, and also non-executive members of Council on particularly important things that have happened in their own portfolio areas. If I could just move around the table in order, actually, you've been standing in for me for the last two weeks. Is there anything you want to update either on your own portfolio or on a wider perspective? Leader, it's been very quiet. Welcome back. It's been very quiet and peaceful here, so there's nothing particular. There's the burning hot topic that I wish to update people on. By way of introduction, I'm Angela McPherson, and I'm deputy leader and look after the health and well-being portfolio, which will be incredibly relevant with the agenda we have today. You've tried to imply that when I'm not here, everything's required and peaceful. Just well-managed. Well-managed. I'm getting the message, I'm getting the message. John, John Shilver. Yes, thank you, Leader, and welcome back. I'm John Shilver, a cabinet member for accessible housing and resources. I do have one hot topic, which is that today we are going to the market to invite tenders from perspective development partners with the Woodlands side, which is a major development site on the east of Alesbury, with new housing, commercial, and sports facilities. It will also help the delivery of the eastern link road, which is an important section in the network of new roads around Alesbury. John, thank you. That's actually very good news, because I know that the delivery of the ring roads there are Alesbury is one of the key priorities we have as a council. Alesbury is a terribly congested town, as I think we all know. Anyone who crawls into Alesbury every day and back again in the evening knows how difficult that can be. And actually getting these ring roads delivered is a really important thing, Chris, to do. I just hope that obviously with the development here that we make sure it's part of the whole garden town ethos, that this is a really high quality development that we can all be proud of. Move on to Anita. Anita Cranman. Thank you, Leader. Anita Cranman, portfolio for Children's Services Education and Skills. I do have a hot topic. It's a bit of a tease of hot topic, because we had an office interview about education last week, which I do want to thank all the staff who worked so hard to put it together. And the feedback that we got on Friday was very positive. I cannot say more because it's under embargo, but that's a good hot topic. Thank you. So it was very positive, but you can't say more. Okay, right. I don't want to read into that. Yes, I do, hopefully. Sounds good, Anita. And congratulations. Not prematurely to you and all of the team involved. Looking for relevant players over the side of the table. But, yes, whoever is currently looking after the Children's Services portfolio sounds really good news. Peter, Peter Strackett. Morning, Leader. Welcome back. Peter Strackett and Kevin, member for Planning and Regeneration. I have no hot topics, but today I am accompanied by Councillor Rachael Matthews, one of my deputies, but I let Rachel introduce herself, but she's here because of a specific interest in an agenda item. Yeah, I'm very, very well, very welcome just again to explain to anybody watching. One of the things we do here, we have a system of both cabinet members and deputy cabinet members. Deputies look after specific aspects of the portfolios. I do allow deputies to attend cabinet meetings where they have a specific item on the agenda and they can comment on those. They're not constitutionally allowed to vote on the item, so it would be, for example, Peter who would vote formally on the item. But, obviously, since you lead on this particular topic, you're very welcome here today and it's good to have you. And just to say, Rachel Matthews, deputy cabinet member for Town Centre Regeneration, very happy to be here today to present a paper that we have on Regeneration in the Town Centre in Alesbury. Great, and I will just pay tribute also, because Peter Martin, who's one of the deputy cabinet members on the transport portfolio, is also here just sitting over to my right. We move on around, Arif, Arif Hussein. Good morning, everyone, and welcome back, Leader. Not hot topics, I understand, but for a new order for communities. You have an item on the agenda, which is a very important one for a little bit later on, Clive Clive Harris. I was using one of your leisure facilities late last night. I'll give you some feedback on it afterwards. That's very good. Councillor Clive Harris, responsible for culture and leisure. I have no hot topics, but what I would say has been some fantastic women's sport taking place recently, culminating with the English roses winning the Rugby Home Nations competition. I think that with the Olympics coming up, we should all be looking to support the women in whatever sport they're involved in, because it really is good to watch, and often whilst it might be a little bit slower than the men's game. You can see much more technical going on, so I'd hope that people will get behind the women's teams and the sport they need so they get paid what they deserve. Just to say, as a cast, we're very, very supportive of the inclusivity of all of our sporting activities, both for all genders, basically, and also people with any form of physical disability. So it's really good to see that promoted well. Mark. Good morning, Leader. Mark, we're a cabinet member for High Missness and Regulatory Services. I've got no hot topics. And Thomas. Thomas Bremen. Morning, everybody. My name is Thomas Bremen, I'm a cabinet member for Climate Change and Environment. I have a brief, sort of, update hot topic, partially due to what several people have alluded to being the weather at the weekend. We have a number of all day. Gorgeous weather. Typical typical typical English weather day. Perfect, fabulous. Somebody in the garden most of yesterday. Yeah, exactly. Unfortunately, not quite so good for levels of ground water. And obviously, we do have an ongoing issue around the county where we have a number of areas that are subject to ground water flooding and have been because of the much, much higher than normal rainfall. I think we're now at the wettest winter period for 160 years, pretty much since records began. Obviously, we are continuing to engage with communities on this. I know a communication has just gone out from the from bucks to residents in Chalfont, some pizza in particular. My deputy, Jelly Jordan, has done a fantastic job of keeping on top of this and in particular, trying to hold to account Thames water. Should we say actions or lack of actions have significantly contributed to the problems that we're having. And so, while this situation continues to be a problem, we will make sure we are very much on the front first in engaging with Thames and trying to get them to take the action we know is necessary to protect our residents. Yeah, well, sir, I'm really glad you raised that as a topic. I mean, I thought it was a way, yes, they were the rain, that this is not going to make it any easier across the whole county. I mean, I had a whole day on a email and a lot of it related to ground water issues. And I will say this cautiously, I mean, other residents do not seem to understand that actually, you know, the groundwater is very high at the moment and it's meaning that quite frankly, a lot of the gullies are not clearing. There's just nowhere for the rain to go. We still have, you know, water on surfaces and we have a lot of flood warnings across the county. I'm particularly aware of the issue you've raised about Charles Vincent-Pietron. I'm aware that we have Councillor Isabel Darby here this morning, who's a very much a lead player in that particular area because she represents Charles Vincent. I attended a meeting supporting her a few weeks ago down there. I'm aware very much of the strong concerns that local residents have quite rightly about the situation in their village. We have produced a follow-up leaflet as I promised on that. But obviously, what we need to do is continue the pressure upon Thames water. In fairness, they are going to have to wait until some of this groundwater goes down so they can actually investigate the ducting and pipe work they've got. But they really do need to be reminded, let's put it that way, continually of their responsibilities to make sure that their sewerage system is contained such that we do not have groundwater penetration into the sewerage system, which is leading to quite frankly unacceptable issues for local residents down there. I'm aware that the high street is still closed because Thames water believe that that has to be maintained in order to allow their tankers there, which is something we did undertake to have another look at. But unfortunately, they are very firm that they cannot reopen the high street. So thank you for that. Good updates from everybody, and it's very good, as I said, too, to have particularly Zavodavi here, who I know has been a massive champion for Chauffeans and Peter on this particular issue. I'm going to move us on then to question time, which is item five on the agenda. That's where we allow councillors who are non-executive members to come and ask questions. They hold the executive to account by doing so. And what we ask is that the question is tailored and advanced. This is simply so that we can give full answers rather than simply saying, you know, we'll take these away and have a look at it. That means that we ask that they are effectively questions, not long speeches, which I know it would not be the case with Joe Wilson, who's asking one of our questions today, but other members have veered a little into long speeches. So if I can just welcome Stuart, and if you'd like to praise your question, and then I'm going to make sure that you get an answer to it. Thank you, Martin, and welcome back. I'm Councillor Stuart Wilson. I represented the groundwater impacted area of women's born-end and headsaw. And I'm here joined today actually by Claire Sharma, who is the practice manager for our born-end and women's green medical centre, very much impacted by the topic in question. In particular, I'd also like to thank colleagues to the left on the rapid review that we did. I think it was an excellent example of cross-party. I've never really heard Jane Anderson well described as being to your left, but that's interesting. So my question, today Cabinet is reviewing the Joint Select Committee review into planning for future primary health care in Buckinghamshire. An example of the past and present failings of the planning and primary care estate planning system, Achilles clearly illustrates in the born-end and women case study in the appendix to the report. The infrastructure delivery plan of the Wickham local plan made it clear that the delivery of up to 800 new dwellings, now close to 1100 dwellings with windfall, infill and office conversions, created additional demand on transport, primary education and primary health care, which requires new infrastructure and/or appropriate mitigation. Policy BE2 Hollands Farm included clauses relating to a new link road through the site and the provision of a single form entry primary school on the site. Policy BE3, new medical facilities, commits the local planning authority to work with the clinical commissioning group now, the integrated care board, to deliver new medical facilities on BE1 slave meadow, BE2 or an existing employment size. Please note that local primary schools and elected members do not consider a new single form entry primary school to be necessary given local capacity and falling birth rates. Education services have contrived to include out of area schools to support their claims. This is potentially worth approximately 2.3 million in Section 106 contributions and the provision of land that could be better used towards new primary care facilities. The development subject of Policy BE1 received full planning consent in 2023 without any reference to medical facilities in land or financial commitments. The development subject of Policy BE2 is an outline planning stage and has received a very limited and wholly underappable consultation response from the ICB on only one and out of the three outline planning implications. The supplementary planning document for BE2 provides for both financial contributions to an appropriate healthcare facility for the area and/or the provision of land for a new healthcare centre with modern facilities to attract general practitioners. The opportunity for a meaningful delivery of Policy BE3 linked to development at Hollands Park is at serious risk of being missed by both Buckinghamshire Council and the ICB. In line with one of the joint review report recommendations, Ruben and Born End Parish Council is more than willing to consider civil support to deliver new medical facilities in line with the infrastructure delivery plan requirements that cannot do so on its own. What action will the Cabinet members for planning and regeneration and health and wellbeing take with the ICB and the GP practice to ensure that Born End and Ruben will receive the new primary care facilities it requires as legislated in the infrastructure delivery plan of the adopted Wickham local plan. Including the commitment of additional civil support for healthcare facilities, 5% of civil was previously allocated to healthcare by the former Wickham District Council. Section 106 payments, all the deployment of land and the 2.3 million pound funding for a primary school no longer required by the community. Thank you. Thanks very much to it and I'm going to hand now to Peter Strachman who is the cabinet member for planning to respond on behalf of Cabinet. Thank you very much Leader and thank you, Councillor Wilson, for your question which shines the light on the relationship between the local authority planning service, local plans, communities in the provision of health and education services which is a very complicated arrangement with a number of moving parts. The minutes will contain a lengthy and detailed response to your question which I will not read out verbatim, though I will highlight a number of areas within it. Councillor Wilson, you'll be aware that the policies in the Wickham District local plan, including policies BE1 and BE2, were scrutinised by an independent planning inspector during her examination of the plan between March 2018 and July 2019, following which she found the plan to be sound and legally compliant. Policy BE2 of the plan requires the provision of a one form entry primary school as part of the Holland's Farm Development. It's important to note that a health facility requires a detailed, costed and compelling case if the planning authority are to secure a funding contribution and/or land to help facilitate it when considering proposals for housing development. A consultation response has been received from the health authority seeking a financial contribution towards healthcare and the planning authority will take this into account in reaching a decision on the planning application. The planning authority cannot unilaterally require a developer to provide a site within a housing allocation. Even if a health proposal did come forward on the BE2 allocation on Holland Farm, the policy allocating the site for development does not say that there has to be a health facility on this site. Extensive consultation was carried out during the preparation of this development brief by the means of a Holland Farm Liaison Group which was set up in August 2019. This group met on four occasions to help inform the development brief. The purpose of these meetings was to discuss relevant site specific issues, share options and principles for the development of the site, share the draft development brief and discuss feedback on the draft development brief before a wider public consultation on it took place. There has been considerable discussion and joint working with the ICB on developing a clear strategy for primary healthcare provision that will inform the planning process. The joint review recognises that there is still a lot of work to be done by the ICB and as I said, Councillor WILSON, there is a much more detailed response contained in the minutes and I'd be happy to enter some dialogue with it when you've had a chance to redid and review. What I'd suggest is that this is an incredibly important but very difficult area and I certainly recognise right across the county there is issues to do with health service provision, particularly when your housing is being proposed. We have a very good report I think coming forward from a joint piece of scruity work that was carried out which we're going to discuss later on. This is very complicated as an area. It sounds simple but it's not so I suggest maybe an offline dialogue would be the most appropriate way of taking this forward if that's okay. Thank you, thank you. I'd like to say that that's the last question but it's not. We always have the grand denouement of question time which is a question from Robin Stachbury. Robin, would you like to come forward and join us? Good morning on this spring morning which is a spring morning for once which you think we could all join these celebrate. Thank you for this opportunity to ask a question about some of the cabinet member I've been corresponded about and give him a chance to express his views on the subject which goes. Buckethead Council recently agreed it's house judge for 2025-2029. There are a large number of people who I receive in section 21 notices which are placed and increased pressures on the offices and the cabinet member. Could the cabinet member please explain what resources the council has and the work that is being done within the Port Ferry to support people with housing vulnerabilities and suggest how support all of us can be given to constituents let members to ensure that there's this support that works for the offices team and the cabinet member. As he knows we did agree these policies but this is a growing concern and is a huge concern and I'm interested in how he will be able to express best that he can deal with it. Thanks Robin. Mark would you like to summarize again? I'm conscious there's quite a lengthy response to this and the same way that there's quite a lengthy response to Stuart's question and that we'll be with the minutes. Would you like to just maybe respond to Robert? Yeah thank you Lita and thank you Robin for your question. The housing structure is approval on the 17th April 2024 by council. It was a culmination of every year's work of hard work. The strategy articulates new clarity and priority for delivering new housing as well as ensuring that housing needs are effectively matched to available options. Following the adoption of the housing strategy by council we will provide the members with the housing briefing. Of course members are always welcome to seek advice from officers and/or from myself when it resonates contacts them who is at risk of homelessness. Delivering additional affordable housing development in the whole of the county remains the most effective way of meeting demand for housing and the affordable price for our residents. Officers are working closely with all registered providers provider partners to maximise the investment those partners put into developing new affordable housing and that's in line with priority free of the housing strategy new homes affordable accessible and appropriate. Where section 21 notices are a contributory factor to some households presenting as homeless it's concerning when the volume of these increases. Increased presentations at the front door for support of the council puts pressure on our frontline teams who provide prevention services. Even when the effective prevention case work in place a certain number of their presentations will unfortunately result in pressure for housing due to determinations and resulting pressures not temporary accommodation provision. In addition to the new housing strategy we also have an existing adopted homelessness strategy which outlines the priorities of the council in supporting vulnerable households to stabilise and maintain their housing. The council prevented 1,750 households at risk of homelessness between the 1st of April 2023 and 31 March 2024 from becoming homeless. The housing service provides this prevention support and placement management for those in temporary accommodation as a main part of the function for the majority of the teams employed by the council. We would advise any constituent or member to refer households which are at risk of homelessness to the homeless advice and assistance contact routes which are homelessness@bakammsher.gov.uk or on the telephone number 01296585168. Thank you for that summary of your response thank you. It's obviously a very serious issue where people are threatened with homelessness where they are renting. I will just say maybe controversially in the interest of balance. There are also issues sometimes with tenants who are difficult where they can be behaving in an antisocial way causing lots of complaints from neighbours. It may be failure to pay rent as well for an extended period of time when they can't reach an agreement with the landlord or where the personal circumstances of the landlord have also changed and they need to regain possession of the property. So there is a sort of balance here in terms of the rights of the tenant and also the other local factors that may take into account but I'm sure those are all the sort of issues that the housing team can take into account when they're discussing any individual circumstances. So thank you Robin again very much as always for your questions always very stimulating ones. I'm going to move us on in the interest of time to item six on the agenda the forward plan. This is at what's called 28 days notice. The forward plan is that for the cabinet and what it does is it gives an indication of the items that have come before cabinet over time. It means that non-executive members of the council can see what's going to come forward, give us a chance to give input on any particular topics they wish to do so. They can always talk to the cabinet member or the deputy cabinet member about any item, raise issues, concerns or input, likewise that applies to members of the public as well. It will change. I mean variously these things do change and therefore although this is a snapshot in time I always recommend that anybody looks at the latest version which is available online particularly if you're watching this webcast maybe a week, two weeks or so later. The papers are on pages 11 to 28 of the agenda pack. Can I just ask members of cabinet if there's any issues they wish to raise with regard to that forward plan. I'm assuming you're all content with the forward plan as it stands. Thank you very much. It moves us on to item seven planning for future primary health care and vacuum share. This is the joint select committee review. Now this is the item I referred to a little bit earlier but I think it very much relates to the issue that Stuart's raised. I think the report was a really excellent one. Can I just say that? I mean it's showing I think some of the complexity of this particular topic and I know we're going to be joined by two colleagues from the integrated care board. I'm going to ask them to introduce themselves in a second because fundamentally the provision of medical facilities does rest with the integrated care board. So they are key partners in the delivery of these services on behalf of residents. So Philip, maybe you could just introduce yourselves and be great for the public. Thanks so much. Hi everyone. I'm Philip Baker. I am the box place director within Bob ICB. That's the Buckinghamshire, Oxfordshire and Berkshire West integrated care board. Thank you and I am Julie Dandridge. I also work for the Buckinghamshire, Oxfordshire and Berkshire West integrated care board and I am the lead for primary care infrastructure of which one bit is a state but digital workforce. Both incredibly welcome you are very very key players in this whole discussion obviously and something I know from having sort of looked through this report is the complexity on this state side is almost by Zantime in its complexity at times. So having said that I think probably the best thing is to pass to one of the colleagues sitting opposite. I can see Mr Carroll has raised his finger. I'm not quite sure how you've orchestrated your contributions given their authority. I just ask you to introduce yourselves each in turn so the members of the public watching this know who you are and then obviously if you would like to arrange which of you will lead on a particular section of the report that would be great. Maybe I could just start with ladies first if that's okay. Isabelle and then Jay, Chris and then David. Thank you, Leader. My name is Isabelle Darby. I'm a Councillor representing Chaplain St Peter, famous for its flooding at the moment which we alluded to earlier and I am one of the joint chairmen of the review group. Jay McBean, Councillor for Children Riches. So I chair the Health and Adult Social Care Select Committee. I also chair the Joint Scrutiny Committee of the Bob ICB. I'm Chris Powell, Councillor for the Ward of Ivinghoe and I was also a joint chairman on this joint committee. Yes, good morning. I'm David Caron, Chair of the Growth Infrastructure and Housing Select Committee which is another one joint venture for us today. That's great. Thank you very much. Now if I could just hand over to yourselves and I think David, you want to start? Yes. Well, Leader, I think it deserves to say that this is a major bit of work and we're so happy to get to this cabinet situation. It's some important to our communities and I really want to give a personal thanks to Councillor Isabelle Baderby and Councillor Chris Powell for the work they've shared here. It's so important. I'm so grateful we've knitted together. I think everybody there for that committee has knitted together. On this, it's been so positive and as you said in the past, select committees are so important to his Councillor. So a big thanks to them. Could I pass on to Joan, please? Thanks, David. Yes, lovely to be here today. I was delighted to hear Councillor Chilfer talk about development partnerships on leisure and I'm sincerely hoping that in the future there might also be some partnership working on healthcare as well because I think what this report shows is that we desperately need partnership working. So a little bit of background to this. So in the three years I've shared the hasque, there have been a couple of issues that have cropped up. Long Crenden was the first where we actually had a parcel of land deliberately specified for a healthcare facility which is the holy grail in a local plan and something I hadn't seen before. So the land sat there for four and a half years, wasn't brought forward for development. We managed to actually enable a planning permission in the last six months before the land reverted to the developer. If the developer had helped to build it, it would probably have cost hundreds of thousands. Now that community are struggling to find three million pounds to build that facility. Something is not working within our system that we see such huge costs to communities and we're not having more integrated and partnership working discussions to deliver these much needed facilities at place at the right time and at much, much lower cost ultimately what is taxpayers because none of this money sits in public bodies. It all comes out of residents' pockets. So the other issue was Lace Hill, a very successful practice in the north of the county. They have spent years trying to bring forward a new surgery and I take my hat off to Dr George Grafriel and his team at Lace Hill. They have battled on so many fronts. It looks like we may have some more positive news coming very soon about that development and it might move forward but they are not the norm, they are the exception. They really, really have battled for a long time when many others would have given up. So these examples started to come through to the Hask and we started to think about who is responsible for planning future healthcare needs. We have a local plan, we know we're going to have additional housing, we know that we need to grow our economy and we need new business development but we also need schools, highways and we also need healthcare facilities. So the purpose of the rapid review was to look at all of this, we knew it was a complex situation and I think the key thing here is we need to recognise that this is only the start of the conversation because it is complicated and it does bring in lots of different teams including planning, healthcare, the healthcare trust, GPs that work as independent businesses for want of a better word organisations. It is incredibly difficult but we have had some successes at the Hask. We have transformed the way we talk about our winter planning instead of a last minute conversation at the end of the year as we go into winter we now have an integrated group of healthcare professionals across the board who are talking about the winter crisis situation all year round and constantly reassessing. They're no longer working in silos, we've done it with intermediate care, how we get move people out of hospital and into the right setting either in a care home or at home. So we are starting to see the glimmer but this is a big, big topic, we need more work, we need more integration of teams and we need formal discussion between the various bodies in order to identify, map out, where our potential growth is in terms of not just housing but also communities moving, transitioning, cross areas and how we're going to meet their needs not only in healthcare but in other ways as well. So I do commend the report you, there are a number of recommendations and one of the things I'm pleased to see that Philippa and Julie are here but obviously the Council can only make recommendations where the Council are actually involved and I would urge some, I would ask for some reassurance from Philippa that this whole report is going to be presented properly to the ICB board and be discussed at length because their participation and their joint working is absolutely integral to moving this conversation forward that is going to take some time and actually getting some positive results coming out of it. Jane, thank you very much indeed, just for anybody watching this report is on page 29 to 64 of the agenda packet is a very comprehensive report on what I think we've always said is a very complex situation. Obviously you've referred to things like leisure facilities, education which are the direct responsibility of this Council so we have to make sure the funding is in place for those. Technically the provision of things like GP surgeries are the responsibility of the integrated care board but in some of the complexity of how that funding takes place I think obviously I'm sure Philippa will talk to in a second and what we can do to make sure that the correct facilities are in place. Quite frankly as the county grows the number of houses are going to be significant over the next 10-20 years we need to make sure the right facilities are in place. I'm aware that everybody is under financial pressure and one of the issues we always have is everybody wants a share of section 106 or Sill or whatever you know and it's always great when everybody says let's give it to x and then somebody says well hang on what about my crossroads, what about my traffic lines, what about my school, what about so we're always trying to get more blood out of a stone on these sorts of issues. There is no simple solution I suspect to no unlimited amounts of money for everything we'd like to spend on but having said that, can I just first, oh sorry Isabel do you want to come in? We're not finished yet later. Right I'm very sorry I'm assumed with the conclusive way that Jane finished that that was it but would you both like to go out Isabel and then Chris, whichever order to come in as well. Thank you very much leader. First of all I would like to thank the review group members so we've got Councillor's Childree, Dutchbury, Thomas, Turner and Wilson, three of whom are here today which is fantastic to see the fruits of their neighbours actually being presented to Cabinet and also to the officer team that supported us. I would also like to extend our thanks to other Buckinghamshire Council officers and also so many colleagues from Health who gave so generously of their time to actually allow us to get under the skin of this situation and to to understand in far more depth a lot of the problems or the issues which have led to the problems which Jane has described and certainly as a review progressed we really did discover the complexities. If you thought councils were complicated my goodness health is a whole new ball game and you know it is the health landscape is very very complicated and you look at it as a as a lay person and think well well why and this brings inherent difficulties to their planning for primary health care and I think we really sympathised with the difficulties that they have. You know this disconnect you've got GPs who are basically self-employed people in the main and they provide the services that we as members the public and all our residents value and use and then you have the the ICB responsible for planning this but I absolutely have no direct control over saying you will put a GP surgery here and you will go and work there because there's no direct relationship and that really sort of causes a huge potentially huge issues and so it's a very difficult landscape to understand and navigate but it is the system that we have to work with and we've heard from both council and from health there is a lack of funding I mean there's lack of funding we know everywhere and one of the things we were looking at was the planning of future services which when we started thinking about it was we're going to have growth in Buckinghamshire we therefore need to provide primary care you know we as a global we with health have to provide for primary care for this growing population and our planners explained to us that they could sort of enable the funding for that growth bit by saying we've got to provide so many square feet of additional doctor surgery or whatever but then we heard that that amount of money was a drop in the ocean as to what a GP's practice that was expanding would need to provide decent health care for that whole population the setting the existing population and the and the add-on so I think what's clear and Jane has again alluded to this is the organizations as organizations we need to work together we haven't none of us have got enough money so we need to work really closely together to understand each other's issues and to remember that the focus has to be providing good services for our residents because we both serve the same the same residents I think that Chris is going to talk a little bit more about some of the recommendations but I just wanted to quickly turn to recommendation for because on rereading it I think it needs a little bit of clarity what we are recommending is that town and parish councils should be made aware that they can spend their sale on supporting health care initiatives not that they have to or should but they should be made very aware that there is very little money around for health care but that they could choose to use their portion of still money towards that so I just wanted to clarify that and I'm going to hand over to Chris thank you Chris thank you leader yes I've just got a few points of clarity before you can deliverations on recommendation two as his bill is just alluded to the S106 and and seal model it just doesn't fit with provision of new facilities at the moment the S106 particularly where a whole project has to be identified it also mentions the district value which I shall return to very very shortly on recommendation 10 where we requested that our planning team should work with the ICB estates team and that to be formalized we recognize that that happens already we weren't asking that Buckinghamshire council planners allocate four five ten hours a week to do so but just a fair comment and even though the ICB estates team have doubled their number of planners to two I think that still stands and then finally on recommendations 11 and 12 concerning the district value of his office it's just not keeping up with inflation it's a problem for GP practices and anything that can be done we think could make a massive difference thank you thank you for your time no Chris I mean thank thank you for your time to all four of you very sincerely because this is such an important area and it's just really great to see a really good deep dive and in a second I'm going to ask obviously Philip and Shannon to comment on the soil I'm also going to ask Angela maybe first to comment just a couple of quick observations for myself because I think Isabel put a finger on something that I don't think most people realize which is that GPs predominantly don't work as I'm going to choose my words carefully they're not employed directly by the NHS they're not NHS staff they are independent businesses this goes back to you know the postal agreement between and I think and the doctors you know they are basically independent businesses who work for the NHS but they are independent businesses by and large not totally but by and large that adds a degree of complexity into this there's obviously an issue of capital and revenue funding so there's both the capital costs of setting up new practices then an ongoing revenue contribution or cost of running them and I think on the parishion town council issue it is important remember that you know if they have an adopted local plan town and parish councils do get 25% of so 25% that's a quarter of it that can be a very substantial amount of money and they're not directly responsible for you know the roads the leisure facilities the traffic lights and all the rest of the stuff that the back mission council has to provide so there is clearly the opportunity of cost there to provide significant contributions should they so wish and that's obviously their decision and I'm not trying to in any way impinging the sovereignty of town and parish councils but you know where they recognize that need that that you know significant amount of money does lie with them having said that Angela is there any you'd like to say that I'm going to pan over to to Philip and Julie maybe to respond as well and then I'm going to open up for other members of cabinet yes thanks leader and thank you to all four of you for coming in today to present your findings and to the wider committee that looked into this I sat for two whole days with with you guys hearing evidence it was incredibly complicated and I don't purport to understand in any depth that you've gone into the district valuers and that sort of thing it is a very complex landscape to navigate but you've started this conversation as you said Jane and that's great that it's being kicked off but what we really want to see don't we as actions and something being delivered on the ground and I hope that this is the first piece in the jigsaw of where this is going to get us I very much welcome the report and at the time we sat in the evidence gathering sessions there was no primary care strategy that we were asking for that was a beginning point and that has now come to fruition as being consulted on it is quite high level and I think I'm not going to go into that but at least that is a building block from which we can move on as cabinet member for health and well being I'm looking through all the recommendations and have agreed most of them with the exception of where additional resource is needed that we can't fully commit to but you are really pushing very much on an open door with most of your recommendations from my perspective and Peter Strackenall obviously talk to the planning bonds. I think the other thing just to say is though you've shown the lens of primary care a lot of this has been focused around GPs which obviously are a large part of that offering but we can't forget and you do reference the PNA the pharmaceutical needs assessment it also includes farmers it also includes dentistry which is another subject I know your committee is going to be looking at and optometry so it is a wider spread of services and I know that you really shown the light mainly on GP provision here and the difficulties in getting that off the ground in conjunction with development that's coming our way so that's just a very brief starter for 10 because I know we're going to go through the recommendations in more detail but I'm very much welcome this report and I'll do everything I can to enable it to move forward. Thank you and you're absolutely right to emphasize something that I didn't correctly do which is that primary care is not just about GP surgeries because I refer to GP surgeries actually it's about that wider spectrum of dental care pharmacies and so on and I know there's recently been a new primary care strategy put forward by the integrated care board and without the consultation so you know it's important to keep that in mind as well. Peter I'm going to drop something because I'm just conscious I was down to the comment a lot of this is planning is there anything you want to say at this point or would you like to to save your comments for later? I think I could make a few very high level comments firstly just to give insurance that we have every aspiration for the planning servers to work closely with the variety of NHS type organizations to make this work but one of the key points which has been mentioned a couple of times and I know that it's one of the recommendations is about the use of section 106 and CIL and just to reiterate that we can certainly attempt to educate the parish and town councils of the necessity frankly of using those funding platforms for to support health but we can't oblige them to do it and I am aware that there were some legacy arrangements in district councils where a percentage was allocated in that arrangement of courses lapsed so you know just to give them assurance that we are aware of the fact that we will need to educate we will need to make town parish councils of really hopefully the necessity of using that kind of funding to support the medical provision but we can't oblige them to do it but I think probably that's also the minute leader okay and just to reinforce that point I mean I absolutely recognize that town parish councils are sovereign bodies you know we do not have any right to require them to do anything that that is down to them the way we normally run these meetings for anybody watching it when we have a select committee this is particularly complex because obviously it's an interaction with both different select committees plus also the ICB is that we spend most of the meeting discussing the report with an interaction with the various players in the room then we effectively move into a part B which is when the relevant cabinet members respond then there's a question and answer within the cabinet about that response to make sure that all cabinet members are content with those responses and then we formally vote on that so we're still within like part A of that which is the discussion around the wider table around the recommendations that are within the report and indeed the comments that are within the report maybe this is the right time for a little bit to hand over to yourself and Julie to give us the ICB perspective on it and again most people watching won't really know what an ICB is I'm always conscious we have to make sure that our public understand what we're saying maybe you'd like to say just just a few words about what the ICB is so they understand that and then obviously your views on the report. A very tough ask to define the ICB in a brief amount of time so the Integrated Care Board is the commissioning body that covers the footprint across Buckinghamshire, Oxfordshire and Berkshire West that means we work in partnership across those areas to ensure the right distribution of resources and to make sure that comprehensive health services are in place for that population that's probably the best definition I can give for now but many reams have been written about the role of ICBs and systems so my role here is really to work with partners in Buckinghamshire and to try and make progress on those health and care issues that are important to the population of Buckinghamshire and on that front I would also like thank the committee for this report and for the very detailed sessions that we went through giving us the opportunity to share some of the challenges that we face and also talk to partners about some of the opportunities that we see in this space so I won't dwell on the challenges many of which have already been mentioned but would like to just say a couple of words about what I see as some of the opportunities going forward building on the recommendations in this report so I think it's really important that we continue to work closely with our partners in Buckinghamshire on section 106 monies and sill funding and to be as creative as we can within the constraints of that funding to deliver the funding that might be needed to support capital investment so for example pooling of section 106 monies other opportunities that we might see around sill would be really keen to continue those conversations I think we're really we're building on those relationships locally hopefully Steve and others will corroborate that we want to work really closely with partners in the council on developing this we are increasing our resources within Bob despite resource constraints we are investing in our estates team it has doubled from one to two I think there is another person coming in under their proposed operating model that we're currently consulting on so we recognize the importance of that going forward and we want to build on the work that we're doing in the primary care primary care strategy from Bob ICS which many of you have been engaged on so what that does is think about how we ensure we can provide good quality primary care and meet increasing demand across the patch and estates will be an important part of that but also we need to look at digital workforce other infrastructure to support but continue to demand in primary care estates is a really important part of that but it won't be the only aspect that we need to look at so thinking about this in the context of that primary care strategy and how we can be creative it's probably one of the opportunities that I see going forward as well thank you really just to reiterate what what Philippa says I think we we really value the time that you've given to dig into this and to understand some of the complexity as I said if there was a if there was a simple answer we would have lots of nice shiny GP buildings clearly clearly we're not in that position but I think it does drive I think the primary care strategy and some of the the partnership working that we have started with does sort of start to drive through those opportunities about where and what what we can do we're very apparent of our rising registered list we're nearly hit two million across across Bob now so really can can can recognize and also recognize the really hard work that our GP practices are doing out there in cramped services with increasing demand so so really welcome the the opportunity to dig into this in a little bit more more detail we mentioned earlier a little bit about our pharmacy opt-home and dental colleagues the ICP don't have so much input into their estate we certainly don't fund the revenue but but do recognize that for communities and the population access to those services is also also critical Judy thanks very much maybe just I'm sorry to put you on the spot there was reference earlier to the district value yeah and I think this is one of the sort of rather Byzantine complexities of this whole issue and if it's possible could you just summarize what that issue is for the public watching if it's too complicated then I apologize and maybe you can take it offline but I just think it seems to be a number of the problem in some of this thank you I can give you a duly damaged version of the of the district value that's probably you still have my paper so so the district valuer is responsible for ensuring the best use of the public purse when it comes to estates so the district valuer will assess the footprint of an estate and assign a cost per meter squared which is then put to the ICP to pay so effectively the the district valuer designs what what rent should be paid that rent can be what they call abated by section 106 which means it will be reduced as a result of capital contributions from our housing developers the trouble with the issues that we are seeing is that the district valuer costs or assessments of costs are often very much lower than our developers needs so by developers now I mean GP practice developers and their needs in terms of return on investment so the GP practice developer puts up the capital the ICP funds the capital as part of the the revenue the the rent but the district valuer is supposed to define what is value for money in terms of that rent and the rent that rent is so different from the developer's rent which means we have an impulse so just just for the simple amongst us yeah and I put myself primary in that position there is there is an inconsistency between what is a commercial rent effectively and an artificially constructed rent from the district valuer that means there's a gap effectively that makes it down viable is that fair or if I misunderstood that misrepresented you I think that the district valuer uses a different formula to a certain their rent compared to the commercial market but but that but the the result of that I'm trying to get to the number of why there's a problem yeah it does that mean that there's a gap in the viability of it absolutely yeah that's what I thought right I'm trying to make is clear for people watching more than anything else because this will seem rather archaic to people watching but actually what it means is it's really difficult to deliver these new facilities because of that quirk in the system yep so let me just ask the question back I'm sorry to dwell on this but it just seemed to be such a fundamental issue how do we get that changed how do we actually get to a situation where the district valuer values it at a I'm going to call it a commercial rent or is it that actually the commercial rent is too high we need to get it out at the district valuer's level it just seems an inconsistency between the two levels is there something that we as a council could do is it something that MPs can do is it something that you can do what's the mechanism for trying to resolve this particular inconsistency in the system um it's it's set in legislation it's set in legislation that the icb or the the commissioner needs to consult with the district the district valuer so I think it's it's it's it's upwards upwards pressure in terms of how and and what we do we need to we need to be a little careful about what we wish for because it would not be affordable so whilst the district valuer determines value for money compared to other rents that we're paying the the commercial value would not be affordable to do probably to do anything across across so i'm sorry to dwell on this but i'm really focused on the public watching this potentially just try get because if you remember the public you think well this is very simple you know all we do is we build a doctor's surgery and you know run it and what's the problem yeah but actually i'll bring you in chain i always have promised you but i'm just trying to get to the end of this so there is inconsistency between the valuation put by the district valuer versus what i'm going to call a commercial rent um the mechanism potentially for changing that is the lobby on sale members parliament and also council leaders and so on but the danger if we do ratchet up that district valuer's valuation is then it becomes unviable for the lacb to actually fund those costs is that fair or if i misunderstood that no that's a fair fair assumption right okay jane you wanted to come in on this point yeah i think excuse me i think there's a couple of elements to that i mean i do believe there is a part that needs to be played by developers and we saw that in long krenton the difference between a few hundred thousand when they have heavy plant machinery on a new site and this doesn't apply to wall because we also have you know we need to kind of rework existing surgeries and i think the point on long krenton is to remember this is not talking about a gp surgery it's talking about a health care facility now the plants that have been drawn up if you have pharmacy involved you need stronger screw uh security arrangements because you've got drugs on the premises so there are certain caveats about the design but this can be a community village town structure that serves multi-purposes it can have a consultation room in it where a local gp can go to the community and deliver appointments or consultation at place it can contain a hall where you can address our health and well-being agenda by delivering chair-based classes for older people run the local scout group and everything else and or an optometrist can go in um you know there's a lot of talk about mobile dentistry now to reach some of our moral rural so where we have the opportunity with these bigger new developments i do believe there is work to be done with delock and with the planning process to say if the need is identified then the planner needs to play a part in physically building it because it is much reduced cost that reduces some of the pressure on the district value or office and whichever gp practice or whichever groups are going to run operate and populate that facility but it is apparent to us that the district value is office um forgive me for one better phrasing or maybe using a sliding scale and rule base that is from the 60s or 70s because it does not bear any relation to current pricing structures in terms of market you've got fluctuations in cost of building and inflation and everything else i'm not saying we should be paying market because i have my own opinions about developers and how the affordable housing contributions and how they cannot afford anything yet they're still managing to make millions out of new developments but that's a whole other issue that this report's not looking at but we do need to address at some point but i do think there's a happy medium so i think it is a combination of lobbying the secretary of state for health to say we need a consultation to see if that whole value process is still fit for purpose or needs updating but we don't want to put an onerous um cost onto healthcare providers and onto gps to look at commercial land values because i think they're often inflated so there's somewhere in between but one of our recommendations is to actually write to the secretary of state everyone icb i know there's you know kind of paymasters and all of that we have to be a little bit careful but icb council you know the gppa everyone needs to work together and start to lobby upwards so that they pay attention and actually have a look at that yeah thank you and i i'm gonna move onto openings up for the colleagues in a second but just just just clarify when you say the plan is building you mean developers building yeah just i think that was just yeah just for the clarity on that but but there is also an onus on when we build our local plan but ultimately think it does come back to the icb how do we know what we need and where we need to put it if someone does not carry out this mapping exercise to say absolutely we're going to have growth here this is a really on surgery and bucking them and they've all we need a new one so we combine it with that this is the footprint and that has got to be a joined up discussion between providers and the planning function thanks g i'm going to open it up now for other colleagues to come in if they wish to do so i saw mark mark thank you lead this is an extremely important report for our residents i know many residents are frustrated by the time they take to actually get through to a doctor because some of our doctors are really overcrowded with patients and they need new facilities and one thing that the report does it talks about the bathroom show local plan but there is of course plans that are coming forward now which are already adopted i just wondered if we could use some of those as proving grounds for this i mean for example i have seen developments come forward where developers identified sites and uh it's probably the ccg not the icb before rejected it we caught we couldn't staff them we couldn't man them therefore there's there's no sites you think of some really large developments like king's brook uh hamden field which is very much being built and almost built now and it's quite well populated with the with residents that they did any new GP facilities hamden fields that was rejected the facilities came up there and there was talk from a super hub at the stoke mandeville so something has been going wrong for quite a long time in in terms of how this this system works so we really do need to get it right and we really do need to put what is going wrong here i mean for example in berry fields i know that rob butler and counsellor actually wait that's worked really hard to get new pharmacy over in in berry fields the bureaucracy that had to go through to get this done was just ridiculous the MP should not be able to ask questions in parliament about of opening a pharmacy it should be a simple matter when there's a really big development like berry fields which is about 4 000 homes and that is a ridiculous situation to be in so this report is really important but i do think we should be using proving round of what's going on at the moment what is being built to implement some other things really mark i i think what you've done is posed questions to the icb stop me if i'm wrong so i'm going to look to philipar and jewellie maybe to respond because you've given us some examples of berry fields hamden fields and so on where you feel the system hasn't worked is it is it fair maybe jewellie sorry philipar if i turn to you and jewellie to to respond on those specifics because it might be quite interesting for the public watching just to understand if you have to live you know on some of these new estates you know king's book and you said well where's my surgery there um what what's happened maybe just you know again in simple terms for the public thank you um so we do recognize that access that access to gp practices and other services is an issue and that that is not always that's not only solved by charney new buildings or or on new estate and and that's a whole a whole nother did another debate so so i won't go there i think i think we can we can be better in how we link with with with planners and in terms of expanding our team to make sure that we are working jointly on on on on some of these projects and the answers aren't always shining new buildings the answers might be extensions or looking at how we can we can use a shed shed space although we need to also recognize that you know for gps to operate out of more than one building that's more cost for them they only get fixed fixed pot pot of funding funding too uh there are some um big housing developments going across uh buckinghamshire um and we we monitor the growth in the gp registered list um albeit um that that's a point in time now and not a not few and not the future uh but i think we are our plans for um hand fields are developing um and we will hopefully have have a solution for that in terms of provision of services on the ground in in the in the housing area great okay so just just on clear on hampton fields there's work in progress in terms of how absolutely primary care services can be provided there okay um i'm going to look back to my colleagues to see if anybody else wants to come in we've already had quite a range of topics raised here anyone else from cabinet uh Anita um yes thank you i'm not sure do i direct the question to and it's a very simplistic question really probably to julie and filipar but maybe not um is there a mechanism planned this is linked with recommendation recommendation for on sale is there um a plan to use uh sale contributions and 106 contributions raised in bucks for the benefit of bucks is there a separation which preempts the uh the involvement to the town and parish councils but is this going to be bucks based okay i'm not sure i fully understand the question if i'm honest and need to um the recommendation here is actually about um you saw talent paradise are you saying that actually we should take it out of the the other 75 percent instead because obviously that's a straight trade-off because when mark x lobbied almost every week about affordable housing i mean if the money is going on providing icb facilities it's money that's not being spent on providing affordable housing so can you just maybe help me a little bit of your question well i think what i'm asking quite simply is uh sale and uh 106 money raised in bucks spent in bucks okay i'm still not totally clear on the question maybe steve you can help me um so i think that it's just important to recognize that so the the council is planning authority collects 106 monies from respective developments and they are defined at the point at the time when we collect them as to what they 106 monies are used for and they will always be used for projects in booking i'm sure that um they are principally defined as as projects and that would be related to that particular site that comes forward in addition to that the council also collects sale monies in part of the county and there's a piece of work going on as captain no to look at extending that to the whole of the county but at the moment in the side of the county is where we collect sale contributions to get those not built into the council's budget process and as part of the budget setting process annually the council considers how it uses that and there's no proposal here to change any of that um other than as the people said there's a recommendation about advice that we might give to town approach council about how they might use their proportion of sale that's collected and then passport it to them yeah and just i'm always conscious people watching maybe be able to follow this conversation commit sale is community infrastructure levy yeah it's almost like a roof tax i'm putting very simple terms on to a developer section 106 relates to specific projects that are identified caused exclusively by the development as such just for the benefit of anybody watching you know it's not that the council is sitting on vast amounts of money that we don't really know what to do with i mean the reality is the developers almost have to be arm twisted in terms of what they're going to provide in terms of financial contributions and there's always there's always more that needs to be done than there is money to do it and so the situation we face as a council always is you know if we want to provide if we want the developer to provide affordable housing then the developer will turn around and say well i can't afford to provide the school or you know if i provide the school then i can't afford to provide the leisure center or whatever it is there's always a debate with the developer about the viability as they would call it of or building the houses that that they want to build and what they see is the unreasonable and overtaxing demands of a planning authority i like exaggerate to make the point clearly so you know it's not although there's loads of money just sloshing around looking for something to spend it on but those are the challenges we have almost every day i'm going to suggest that you want to come in yes and it wasn't on that specific point but just to observe that there are a couple of recommendations here that emphasize the importance of data and how effective and updated data needs to inform service and estates planning and i take that totally on board in terms of my responsibility as chairman of the health and well-being board and the joint strategic needs assessment and pharmaceutical needs assessment that that board oversees and approves and we recognize that importance and that there are some gaps in that data so we'll take those recommendations on board what i just wanted to be clear on was we've seen the emergence of a primary care strategy from the icb which is very welcome what is the current state of the estates strategy that really needs to sit alongside that in my opinion that's a truly good question i guess i look at Julie to respond to that and then can i just for the sake of when you're watching again what i propose to do for this sort of part a of this meeting is then give each of our contributors or six of them just the opportunity to to say some some other remarks if they wish to do so there's no obligation to do so but obviously wish to do so and then i'm going to conclude part a and then i move on to part b for the cabinet for your response um Julie do you want to just respond on that question thank you yes so our primary care strategies should be signed off by our board um late this month so i think that's that's a really good piece of work and and we thank everybody for their contributions as part of that engagement uh as an ics we are also um writing a infrastructure strategy which will include estates across all of our health services um and that is due to be written agreed um in late late summer so that will give us the the the very high level um direction of travel for our estates which includes our hospital trust but also our primary care estates our general practice estates um and from there we'll take it to the the next level and and do more detail in terms of what we need it how how we look at primary care so that will that primary care estates will then fall out of our ics infrastructure that's strategy sorry lots of strategies yeah Julie i'm not trying to put you on the spot i'm genuinely not i just just have to say again of anybody watching in terms of um the topic here today primary care when do you think the primary care estate strategy will be at a stage when people the public for example can see what that is and maybe comment on it so we won't be developing a primary care estate strategy as such because i think that what we need to be doing is is doing delivery plans implementation plans that will fall out of our ics infrastructure strategy which will include estates so there are lots of layers layers to go down but i'm very keen not to have a you know we are going to need to implement our primary care strategy which covers how primary care will look going forward there will be estates components of that that will come out so so let me ask a question slightly differently then when do you think the infrastructure strategy which will include a primary care estate strategy will be something that the public can see and comment on i'm hoping late summer of this year of this year yeah that's not totally that's not totally in my gift but yes i'm not trying to put it on i just think it's important for clarity for the public watching that they they they understand and know these things um i'm going to now ask each offer each of our contributors the opportunity to make any final comments um mr carol pointy to me later um the positive to me is it's been a real positive today and the work's gone into this and i think the answers have been positive i'll go back to peter and local clam and he knows he can come back to our committee in the future this will be clearly all the time so can i congratulate you peter on taking some of this stuff on board and some important to us as a community so we'll be looking to you to put this in incorporate your local plan thank you david chris we're working reverse order now we're working towards that thank you thank thank you leader um i just think we've heard briefly and the report does make mention of the complexities of the sale and s one oh six contributions model and how that can help us to provide yes shiny new buildings but perhaps extensions to all the ones or making them fit for the modern practices um that worked out massively but i would just question with the veil of algebra local plan strategy current and the wicked local plan i would just like to ask peter if he could confirm that the um be to i think about the uh seal contribution through the wicked local plan um is expired whether that is factually correct if you could just check i thought that was commented on actually in the earlier response to to um that refers to the previous arrangement with the wicked local plan whereby a percentage was allocated from section one of six and seal then as i explained to cancel wilson that position has expired thank you um unless can i just confirm with yep steve maverick flooding shame any winding any closing of the king is about any closing remarks uh yes thank you leader um i think for me this is a really good report but it is just a start and i think that we what i hope that we get from this is a commitment by both the council and our health colleagues that we will move heaven and earth to work as closely as we possibly can together understanding each other's challenges to work for the best possible result for primary care for our residents thank you very well said um and jane thank you not to yeah Isabelle's absolutely right and i know certainly at the house and i'm sure david is select committee we will be picking this up with six month and annual reviews but it does need to go beyond the next year um so obviously i have checked the house for the last three years and uh was very proud uh to work with colleagues to set up our joint scrutiny committee of the icb when no scrutiny was being offered and it was actually the the councils that took the initiative otherwise i strongly believe we still wouldn't have a scrutiny of the icb um i am very concerned generally uh i do appreciate since this rapid review was written we have had the primary care strategy and the digital and data strategies come through we have written very very robust responses to them and have found them lacking in a number of ways um at every single meeting we do express concerns that the icb is sitting at an incredibly high strategic level and there is a massive gap between that and what happens at place and i think this starts to highlight that uh we're also continually expressing concerns that there is a lot of jargon without any plain english so when these documents do eventually reach a general public we struggle to interpret them and understand them and i do not see how members of the public who are not immersed in this the way we are ever have a hope in hell of understanding a lot of what's in there we have also expressed massive concerns over communication response levels even within them within you know the stakeholder community are incredibly low to consultations i think the icb have recognized there was a lot of work to be done around comms and i have to say we are yet to see a meaningful way in which comments that we have submitted are actually taken on board and incorporated into these strategies strategies are reviewed amended and actually made more fit for purpose based on the feedback that they've had that is a massive issue um this particular topic the icb have said consistently that they will not produce a Buckinghamshire strategy without a strategy we can't have an action plan and without an action plan there's no action nothing changes so i really do harbor concerns and so i am going to recommend a couple of things to the joint scrutiny committee we um we are now starting to share all of our place work amongst members of that joint committee so that we can benchmark against one another to see what's happening i know in Oxfordshire they are further ahead in terms of health care planning and we have to learn lessons from that i think where it's possible and feasible but i also think that as a joint scrutiny committee we need to benchmark our icb against others across the country because there are other icb's that feel more established and more developed and are making much greater progress but i come back to the point that without a Buckinghamshire strategy without comprehensive mapping of where we are and you know a lot of that maybe can't happen in the public domain because we are talking about individual GP practices we are shining a line on issues that are difficult conversations but at some point and at some time that has to happen we have to have a baseline of what our current facilities are what state they're in and we have to start looking at what the future need is and if we do not have those action plans we can't move forward so it is a plea to the icb and this is why i would like this report to go back to the icb board and be discussed properly with representation maybe from either the rapid review or other partners we have got to shine a light on this and we've got to start having more detail around where we are at at the moment and where we are going otherwise we will continue to have these conversations and nothing tangible will change and we're not talking about we want to build x number of new surgeries but we also have to bear in mind that our GP spend a decade trading to be gps they are not planners they are not developers they don't work in property they don't build extensions they do not have the expertise they are already overworked some would argue underpaid and under increased pressure and it is up to other stakeholders in this landscape to support them encourage them good job them and sometimes tell them this is what is needed for this part of a community to flourish and have the sport that they need in terms of health care and so that's why this conversation has to continue over the next couple of years and at some points some very difficult discussions will have to be had and some very important decisions made Shane thank you um for the putting truly in whichever order you would like um just to say thank you um for the feedback which um I have noted and we'll bring back to colleagues um in the ICB including the request uh that this be discussed at the ICB board Julie and yeah probably not much more from me other than thank you for recognizing the complexity of it and as I say and yes really up for joy working great I mean I'm going to draw a conclusion on this in terms of the part a on this item I've deliberately let this session go on for a significant period of time because I am very conscious the for many of our residents this is a really really important topic I mean I get corresponded on it regularly I know members of the council do I know it's regularly discussed in a whole variety of different forums so this is absolutely you know one of the key items this council has um has a key issue for residents I'm going to pay tribute to everybody here but if I could just single out um jay would be because I know that uh in the period of time that she's chaired the uh health and adult social care scrutiny committee um paskers as it's been colloquially known she's been a real champion on behalf of residents and on behalf of this county so thank you jay and forever you've done and indeed to all of your colleagues there across the table for the work you've done on this report and also to Philip and Julie for being here today um to to hear um the about report and to give your initial comments on it what I hope as as Isabelle said is this the beginning of a journey rather than in destination there there is an immense if you're watching this as a resident you just think why can't they just get on and do this you know why can't I just have a brand spanking you um dr surgery tomorrow and it normally is around dr surgery is the people talk even though it's much wider debate um it is very complicated you know it is not simple if it were it would have been done by now um but we have all sorts of complexities around capital funding around the district value around you know who provides the capital funding um you know what the trade-offs you know if you if you put more money from um civil into funding dr surgeries which are private businesses then that's money that's not going in for example affordable housing which means there are young couples potentially on our housing waiting list who are not getting a home at all because of that trade-off those are those are the sorts of difficult questions that we face constantly and this so there's I'm just trying to say there is no easy answers this you know there's no unlimited pot of money to just sort this out it is very difficult and very complex. Colleagues can I again thank you all all 60 of you for what you've done on this and again I hope this conversation carries on Jane has talked about you know the forward plan on this and how she wants to keep bringing this back um through the ask um and we will look forward to that debate being carried on can I now conclude part a just very clearly I'm going to turn briefly to section B of this I'm conscious of time we have other items on the agenda but I did want this to be a really thorough discussion um I'm going to look to both Peter and Angela in whichever order you would like to just summarize the cabinet response and then I'm going to ask cabinet colleagues if they have any questions and then we can go to a vote on that. Angela do you want to kick off and then? Yes I can I mean because this is a partnership report there's obviously recommendations for our colleagues in the ICB as well um and for me as the cabinet member for health and wellbeing and for Peter on planning um in summary most do you want me to go through each individual recommendation? I'm just conscious people watching won't have copies or you know if this necessarily fronts them um I think you could maybe just summarize if you agree with certain items I don't think we need to go through them um if there's any that you only agree for example in part you might want to just highlight those if there's any that you completely reject you may want to okay just mention that yeah okay well I'll I'll do it as a bit of a team effort here um recommendation one is is very much for the ICB so I'll let them come back on that the second recommendation which is around um me writing to the secretary of state which we've discussed around funding mechanisms and the district valuer the difficulties with that whole process yes I absolutely agree that I will do that I'm sure that the ICB will add to that communication as well um recommendation three which is around co-resourcing a role so we would agree in part that that's a very valid recommendation but the difficulty with that is finance and co-funding a post um so I think that is partly agreed and around the different ways of working with within existing resource um for a gender not a gender item recommendation for that is very much around Sill that we've discussed in great detail and Peter really is one for you around the town and parish councils that we talked about earlier Peter George about anything as we go through it we just interleave between the two I think it might be helpful um I think I think it's been said leader of I may say I mean clearly to make this plan work funding is a huge part of it and of funding them still in section 106 represent platforms which will provide that funding and just to reiterate that we don't own those decisions they're owned by sovereign councils in their own rights but I think the part that we can play is we can make sure they that that the 171 town parish councils are aware of the need for an appropriate part of this funding to be put towards health so that we can contribute to its overall provision and I think that probably captures our discussions leader right back to me um recommendations five and six I'm sort of grouping together because they're very much focused on data um improving the uh identifying gaps in the JSNA joint strategic needs assessment um and exploring the development of bite-sized housing growth digests which I know the Oxford should do very well and we will look to them we agree recommendation five we also agree recommendation six which is around the quality of data used to inform service in the states planning so that is agreed and planning and public health will as always be working very closely together to ensure that that's delivered um recommendation seven uh which is around the PNA the pharmacy to call needs assessment agreed although it's just worth noting noting the difference in sort of life lifetimes of of the PNA which is three year rolling um rolling what's the word I'm looking for plan let's put it like that a rolling plan whereas obviously our local plan is far far longer so it's a way of looking at how they work together um that was recommendation seven I don't have a response to eight as that is with the ICB uh likewise nine um recommendation ten agreed which is around how as we've just discussed staff members from planning and public health teams will work collaborative collaboratively with the enhanced ICB team the only comment I'd make on that whilst we're agreeing with it is that I don't believe the ICB team will be enhanced at time of speaking so I would just um emphasize that um the ICB as Jane mentioned in this uh number 10 recommendation has delegated primary care commissioning responsibility and accountability for the whole bop geography uh as opposed to a place based geography so my note to myself but you've discussed it is that that goes to the Jay Hosk the joint scrutiny committee for the appropriate scrutiny recommendation 11 again it's with the ICB and recommendation 12 is uh for the Buckinghamshire executive partnership which is the place based partnership um which Neil MacDonald who is um chief executive the hospital's trust chairs um the the cabinet response there although it's not quite a cabinet response but the response we've made is that we don't agree with that the reason being whilst Buckinghamshire executive partnership the BEP is supportive of the principle of making best use of the public estate and maximizing opportunities it does not have statutory responsibility for the primary care estate and does not have access to the resource or infrastructure to support this at present so that is the only area we disagree with okay repeat take can i just ask if you have any further comments to make on points and i think all i will say is that um the planning service really appreciate the importance of this for our residents and are very keen to meet whatever requirements flow from this report this very good piece of work and without going through each of the recommendations and turn just to give you an assurance um as Angela's done that we fully support the recommendations of of this um report in the main and i i know that the planning service will be looking to how they can meet the need that flows from it in in the most effective way possible okay thanks um i'm just going to ask if any colleagues have any comments i'm just conscious of time um we still got some other items to go through with Thomas um very briefly thanks Martin um i think that's a a balanced um response from Angela and and Peter in terms of how we deal with these recommendations my one note on this which i think both of my cabinet colleagues have taken into account is that obviously well this is an area where we want to be doing as much as we possibly can to help there are distinct areas of responsibility um and just to put it gently the health budget in 22 23 was 192 billion pounds so there is significant resource available um and we do need to be careful about committing council resources to delivering things that are not within our responsibility and i think that actually the report in general and the response to the report balance that quite nicely okay Thomas thank you um and i'm going to after our i'm going to draw a line simply because we've got other quite important items we do need to get through just a point whether you think that we're adding some timelines to your recommendation will add some value to so when those recommendations or the response um i think if you look at some recommendations you say well i think to respond transport yeah uh Angela well yes yes there are timelines on all of these and i didn't read them out but for example the letter that i will be writing will be um drafted in riddance and this month uh to the respective secretary of state and i hope that will have longevity beyond the general election and go into the inbox of the next secretary of state so that it's again or the existing secretary of state who may be reappointed um right right um colleagues again i don't wish to guillotine this so it's been one of the most important discussions we've had in a very long time i am just conscious to another couple of items we really must get through uh in the time we've got um i i hope anybody watching and i hope that colleagues sitting around the table appreciate the importance we attach to this item i understand entirely from a resident's point of view the criticality of the adequate provision of overall primary care services um particularly on the new estate but also quite frankly retrofitting them into existing developments that are quite frankly got under provisional ready an acid degree of complexity again that we need at some point to revisit um but this is an immensely difficult situation it's not one but there is a magic wand a silver bullet you know pick your own analogy but it's just not a simple thing to solve and some of that complexity is within this report which is an excellent piece of work um and certainly demonstrates i think some of the issues on the issue around the district value and so on um you know and if we make changes that just because more pressure on the icb budget and so on it's just not an easy thing to resolve but i know the colleagues both on the house on our two joint select committees here in bakimashir i know filipar and julie are well engaged now with us and we look forward to the infrastructure plan that we're coming forward from the icb with the caveats that jane has also introduced on to the infrastructure plan colleagues can i now put to cabinet just formally do you agree the response that's tabled by angela and peta uh to this uh select committee report joint select committee report agreed thank you all very much and thank you all very much very sincerely for what you've done i'm going to rapidly and not disrespectfully move us straight on to item eight cost of living support for bakimash residents because this is also a very important item um we have a number of residents who have been struggling um in recent times because of the cost of different pressures brought about by global interest rates um and other pressures like the russian invasion of ukraine and so on uh and we want to support those residents through what's been a very difficult period um we've done a lot already with our helping hands program uh which has been immensely successful uh we've done that with significant additional support from central government which that they deserve full credit for uh but we now need to look at what we do with the potentially last phase of the helping hands program so arif as the cabinet member responsible would you like to just summarize what your proposals are thank you lita and good morning everyone uh i also have a matt average who is uh service director for bist intelligence and community support as a backup so i think as you mentioned lita um we have a new trench of due before million pound which has been given to us and we despair provostally approval as to how we need to use it but part of the paper it also covers as to how we have used our previous fund which has 4.8 million pound between 23 and 24 and paper also details some of the initiatives that we have taken for using um the money that we have given so far and what we intend to use it for moving forward i think like you mentioned uh it is important for us to recognize that obviously um people living in bakimcha and nationally as well are facing some huge challenges due to cost of living and it is really good that we have some means to support those residents and it has been a key priority for the council not just for the residents but for the staff as well they are fully supported while they go into some hard times so i think it's really important really because of briefly on pay 60 and we have some key initiatives which are outlined and i think it is important to say that the offerings are on the website there's a dedicated um section which covers the cost of living section which allows residents to make sure that they can really home into that it also allows them to find out any other sport in terms of food energy they need to have as well and we've also done a printed i've leaflet as well which is distributed through the county but we're really concentrated predominantly in the option new boxboards to make sure that people who don't have access to compete as they're online they have that information available so i think that is really a key so already just briefly if i said that um one of the initiatives was welcoming spaces where people really could come and sit down and have some food in the more places it was initially started off in the libraries but we have really further 17 venues that we are offering through and in the winter of this year we gave up a 6 and a 41 packs for those residents who are in need we also set up our empty doctor scheme again daily it was to help our local residents to make sure that we can help them with the cost savings in terms of the energy bills and by installation of the borders and any other initiatives we thought were helpful for those residents and then our of the main team i think unfortunately you may serve a conference last just to be clear sorry to interrupt you if anybody watching this the beat team is not in terms of their um that their views on how they dispense things this is actually making every adult matter yeah that's all right just i just i was conscious that could have been misunderstood no thank you thanks for clarifying that so we had a conference last week leader whilst you were obviously i mean fun somewhere else um and i think it was very well attended i think Rachel was there mad at the team and there were some live examples of how the main team have really made a difference to some of the most vulnerable people they've been working for it with some rough sleepers in a highway chimeria and they've managed to turn around their lives which is a really good way that we've been able to use our main team i think credit goes to Matt and his team and all the partners who have paid uh played their role in in this rally so in terms of when the paper there is uh the three case studies and i know we limited for time but if i may please i just really want to highlight just one case study so the single man 15 year 59 years old disability problems all wide goods are really broken because there's no money available he has debt for gas and electric and they have any difficulty in terms of filling forms of further funding and so we might get all the wide goods brand installed harder bucks came in and i paid for the gas electric bills and the bucks uh six unadwise bucks helped them with the forms but if i can just read out the feedback that we had it says i cannot begin to thank you enough for your help with this the last few years have been absolute help for me from a standpoint of health ability to work rather than food energy prices and low income this is a huge way of being lifted from me giving me building space once again so just shows how beneficial what we're doing is for other local residents testing briefly on the house of support fund and again it's i think on the page 70 it lists out the way we are able to use the funds which is part of the government's legislation and on page 71 and the chart shows both in some percentage and the money value as well where the fund has been used to reach out to our residents for example in 3.71 on page 71 we gave out almost 88 000 food batches and we gave 95 we had 95 voting community sector initiatives which really helped of 27 000 households and we also helped uh food banks as well and again on page same to do they are again calivers pensioners so there's a huge amount of help that we have given i'm sorry it's a treasure i am going to try and get to have this like i'm just conscious in theory we have five minutes left and we've still got a whole variety of items together if i want to pay i don't just wanted to summarize one case study maybe you could just pull it together i think on page 76 it just gives you the breakdown of the money that we intend to utilize so i think it's best to leave a day because i think pretty much the what means you know all the schemes and all the initiative we've been following through they will carry on and we've just given the breakdown how the money should be used which is to perform when you're up to september this year i'll leave it at that's super i really do apologize for just trying to tell things a little bit it's just i'm very conscious of the time i did let us go significantly over on the other item uh and the unfortunate consequences there's less time now for the rest of the agenda so i really do apologize because i understand this is a really really important item i would just say for anybody watching if you look at page well first of all the reports on page is 65 to 88 it's very comprehensive i am incredibly proud arith of the work the year and the team have done on this and i think page 67 really does summarize i think some of the excellent work that you've done uh and there are a lot of people and across buckhamshire who have you know very appreciative support the year and the team have given the work of expaces work you've mentioned which is not just about you know some way to keep warm and actually has become a but of a social center for people it's about companionship as well as heat and the energy doctors and indeed the the support during school holidays i guess my my question back to you is this has been by its nature temporary work in other words it's been provided fundamentally predominantly by central government we've delivered it in a way that's appropriate locally that money will stop yeah and what we now need to do is make sure people have not become dependent upon this there is a danger i know from having been involved with this myself that people just start to get into the habit of bringing up every month and saying can i have some money can i have some money can i have some money we need to make sure that what we're doing is weeding people off that as the inflation drops very significantly now um so that they become more self-sustaining rather than dependent upon handouts effectively from this program and maybe you could just comment on that very briefly thank you thank you a couple of things firstly i think um i spoke to my early on we have a plan that in maybe teach for most time we need to update our website explaining people the way things are moving forward and we're hoping also i think we have used this opportunity as a showcase if you remember we had an empty coming in two years ago to look at the opportunity buck we met in and in this way we had mem davis come as well so i think you try to see whether there's any way we can get further funds from them by using this but i see we still met and the steam are really working hard we just have to be also looking at some other alternatives whereby people who have to be desperate then maybe we may be able to help them out but at the moment we are looking at see how best we can take this forward but certainly i think we are very mindful that people may have become dependent on these funds and we need to make sure that they haven't really and i think of a partner that we working with they are really key to this as well to make sure that they can reach out to they and individuals and people that they are dealing with on regular basis to keep them informed as well so we are working on a strategy to make sure that we give you some things thank thank you very much any very quick questions i'm sorry to make it sample you know i need very quick questions but i'm just conscious of the rest of the agenda Angela yeah sorry i will make it very quick but it was to just really to build on what you said because i think the importance of this program is to enable people to be resilient and self-sufficient so that was my main point in terms of the funding can i just ask about the voluntary sector organizations that are delivering some of this are they totally dependent on this funding i.e are any of them at risk of potentially falling if once this funding stops that's a good question i know some of the food banks have worked very closely with us on this and i'm not entirely because i think they realize that this is again a temporary fund that we have so the fund that began and we are helping the using some of their funds obviously to help the residents out but they are also in a position where they need to obviously find the funds i think we made it very clear to them as far as i know not to bring back in on this issue to make sure that they understand this is not to contain funding from license to help residents out right i'm going to draw a line there if that's okay just kind of ask colleagues if they agree the recommendations in the Harris report agreed thank you all for that again my apologies for slightly cotading discussion on what's also a very important item item nine vacuum shareholder committee only report 2023 24 snappy title to a really interesting report john i think it's probably let me just check yes john you're you're looking at this we put it on pages 89 to 102 in the public domain there's also a confidential appendix in a separate section which is page 147 to 150 because these bodies deal with some financial data and property issues which are by their nature confidential um john do you want to give a very quick introduction to this you might notice where i've phrased that um and then i'm going to take maybe one possibly two questions on it and then i'm going to move to a vote on recommendation john yes thank you leader uh say this report represents the work of the shareholder committee which is a subcommittee of cabinet over the last year it was launched in july 2022 and has met regularly since and you have the latest annual report it's an appendix this committee provides oversight and monitoring of the council's three fully owned subsidiary companies concilio buccum to advantage and london road business bar management and images as well as of ails me where the states are joint venture with acumen asset management the committee has met four times during the year and has reviewed the annual business plans and financial positions of each of the companies in addition the committee is focused on the best practice in terms of company governance ensuring strategy documents are up to date risk radius is in place and that the council has a pool of potential future company directors to ensure resilience we also facilitated a training session on company governance and the roles and responsibilities of directors during the year we use the local authority companies review guidance checklist to assess the current position and make recommendations for further action each of the 17 areas identified in the checklist have been migrated and it's good to see that the indicators for council government arrangements are both rated green as can be seen on page 98 in addition there has been an internal audit which gave an overall reasonable level of assurance and some of the key findings and recommendations also listed on page 98 I would like to conclude by thanking my friendly cabinet members on the committee as well as officers for their engagement and support that was a very succinct introduction thank you john you rose to the occasion brilliantly i'll just pause in case colleagues may have one maybe two questions at most to you this is quite important item i noticed i made it sound trivial when i introduced it i apologize don't need to do that because it's important members of cabinet and indeed the public recognize that we have a governance body here particularly in terms of things like risk management on the various bodies that we sit on as shareholders so there is quite an important element to this report i will just pause briefly to see if anyone has any comments they wish to make or any questions in which case can i just ask if you agree the report's recommendations excellent thank you for that moves us on to item 10 the ales return center public realm scheme this and the item 11 old county offices alesbury are really significant because they are major milestones in more work we want to do on regenerating the town center on alesbury which remains our county town and i know that lead on this is rachel matthews who we introduced earlier in the meeting rachel may i pass to you or peta first peta maybe you'd like to introduce it and then if you wish to bring in rachel yeah i'd be pleased to do that but just um you know for for um the public runs were um just to congratulate rachel for all the work she's done in this because she's definitely provided the horsepower for this but if i might just give a few um headlines the adoption of the alesbury regeneration strategy in late 2023 provides the platform to drive regeneration of our historic counter town five million of capital funding has been reef ring fence for public realm in the town center of alesbury the regeneration of the gala bingo site is a top priority and was acquired originally for the purpose of regeneration this scheme will contribute to the economic growth of the town center create employment opportunities and stimulate regeneration on the high street and finally we now look forward to working with businesses and the community to develop the plans in detail for this new provision with that can i hand over to rachel for any further detail she wishes to add you may need i'm sorry i'd be prompted um there was something i neglected to do on the last item which is we do have a confidential item within it's currently item 14 bakim shashir hold committee annual report we do not need to go into confidential session if members could just confirm they have read that and have taken it into account um in their um in their support of the recommendation can i just confirm that that has been done agreed great thank you and just for the record as well we have some minutes that have to be agreed as well as on item 18 and again we don't need to go into confidential session technically um if you could just confirm for the record that you approve the confidential minutes of that meeting held on the 25th of march agreed agreed right so just so the minute takers can be clear those items can be deleted and on this particular item we also have a confidential session which is item 15 i will allow us just to go into that when we get onto it because there are some probably important items on it but that means we can truncate that confidential session so Rachel now over to you thank you martyan i think feet has covered everything pretty well actually um but just to say since the adoption of the regen strategy last year um we've been working very hard on a scheme that's going to provide the best benefit for a alsbury town center we think this achieves that we hope it's going to increase footfall and create jobs um within the town center we've also got some public realm on market square that will also improve the market and offer that we can we can provide there so um happy to take any questions on it thank you very much Rachel just to commend you on the leadership role that you've um displayed on behalf of peter and the rest of the team um on this work it is very very important that we have a thriving county town and indeed a thriving uh business hub which is high wickham as well so that you know if they are equally important alongside our third largest town which escapes me for the minute oh hang on yes it's Cheshire which you represent so yes absolutely you know we are we are very seized of the importance of all three of those towns we're focused today on alsbury um i have to say i'm probably the only person in this room who remembers when the alsbury without advantage originally acquired ownership of the garner bingo um i would just say that i mean from a personal point of view my original hope was we could keep it and turning into like a rex of book hamster the reality having gone around that building is it's just not in that state um inside anything of historic value was stripped out long long ago it's just tatty plastic chairs quite frankly most of it um it's just a brick rectangle with no great um historic interest to run frankly um it's a great shame you'll be lovely to have kept it i think it would cost an absolute fortune to renovate um bring up to an acceptable standard way beyond the ability of this council quite frankly but we do have the opportunity here to do an awful lot for the town center you know opening up the high street which quite frankly needs regeneration linking it through to the exchange which is a thriving part of alsbury and i think this could provide a real left boost uh for alsbury have seen through linked to the work obviously on market square as well if we had unlimited amounts of money it'd be great to do more but we haven't we're very resource constrained at the moment but this this particular piece of work that the two of you have led uh i think demonstrates the commitment of this council to deliver a regeneration um on behalf of our residents so having set back pause and just see if other colleagues would like to make any comments um on item 10 in particular at the moment uh mark thank you lead uh like just to echo what you said uh yeah carla bingo i know a lot of residents would like look at this and then why can't they regend the building but it really can't be done and the building inside has just lost all character i know no did this council but abdse before went out to various partners and asked about the viability of sort of doing that building up and the partner coming and doing it and the answer was frankly no it'd be too expensive and it lost all character anyway so that wasn't wasn't an option so that's really important to to tell our residents that that is the case we did try we did look at that i think this is a really sort of good plan that we've got together i like the the view of the the meanwhile businesses that are there i know the plan going forward is then to to find a partner and to really do up that that part of town but that that looks smart the the bit that we've got there and having a sterileic building that we do at the moment in carla bingo is not the way forward for the town so it's really signaling that we want to to bring our county town forward we want to develop it we wanted to be the best place for our residents to live and for business businesses to thrive this old adage of high streets just with retail within them is not going to work people need to realize that so it needs a sort of a mixed business years really that it could be retail but there could also be housing as well but also entertainment i think the entertainment side is one that i think we need to keep in mind i know that there's the usb about music and i know it's sort of the friars club and i know you've spoken to uh david stops about this as well from the friars club which i think is really important i i know you may have some sort of apprehensions about the building going but some sort of preservation and with my house as chairman is the algebra community board as well sometimes the recognition of the music side of the town and that legacy of the town and that the friars club and that that came forward and maybe there is a space eventually for a second space sort of mixed use we could have a second space music venue um with sort of restaurant bar type facility in the future but that's not something we can we can look at i think thanks mike i'm gonna let regi respond but i'm just to say i mean i know david stops as well and i use a true champion for for a able sprayers place i know particular music venue i think you know we can certainly look at the idea of having them using content in the in the new section i also made me just for the record i like to pay tribute also not because he's the work that you've done market as your you know chairman of the community board and we're in championing the regeneration of alsbury but also to the local and p-roll butler who i know has been constantly um you know lobbying and championing alsbury as as a town um he's done an enormous amount of pushes work forward and i think again it deserves recognition here for what he's done having said that back to regi thanks and you're right mike tonight's spoken to butler on several occasions about regenerating the town center i know he feels very strongly about it um in terms of the the public realm work that we're doing to to make the boulevard to go through into the town center as alsbury as well as the town center is also growing so it seems right that we can open that up and link the different parts of the town together better um but you're right that there is a very rich musical legacy in the town center and i've had some discussions with david stops and i'm quite confident that we can hopefully bring some of those legacy um the bands that are played in the town we can um acknowledge that and work perhaps with the community board to come up with some sort of schemes to to reflect that um but it's a really exciting project it will bring football in it will hopefully bring in a number of startup businesses that wouldn't necessarily be able to make that leap to get a retail outlet but they can start with one of these new role use venues so i'm really quite confident that this is the right thing for the town and it will really definitely be the first step in regenerating the town center for us yeah i'm pretty hopeful we get a virtuous circle here because if you bring in businesses that then generate football football for them means other shots particularly in the high street see increased trade you know and the whole thing actually builds up some momentum so that that's certainly my aspiration on this um just look to see if there are any other very quick comments if not i'm going to ask colleagues if they if they have again considered the the confidential appendix which we've just briefly talked about before which was a gender item 15 and if they're then content to agree the recommendations in item 10 agreed can you just confirm again that you've considered the confidential appendices good okay sorry i have to make sure you've done that um can i move straight onto item 11 which is linked to a large extent with item 10 again it's about the regeneration of ales brie it involves the old county council offices that are in warden street i've been involved with this i have to declare maybe it's not really an interest as such it's an interest only in the um subjective sense the word i wanted these uh build this building developed now since i took over as leader of the old county council many years ago it's been an uphill task easier pushing water uphill than getting this job off the ground i'm really pleased we've got to a stage now what looks like uh we can actually move forward on this maybe we can bring in again um you know a new cohort of residents to the town center that again hopefully will provide a stimulus to local businesses as well and move a derelict building into a meaningful use but again uh pizza and Rachel you might want to comment or is this just a shake i'm trying to see who this isn't the name or oh sorry john chilver my apologies john i just looked at regeneration and immediately thought of Rachel but i need to think property and i need to thank you thank you leader here it's like you i've been living with this challenge for years um so the building has been empty since 2014 when recreated by the then county council three wings were demolished at the back to create the new car park on the northern exchange street and internal work has been carried out to remove asbestos so this proposal to cabinet is to agree a long lease hold to a developer to convert the property into flats in line with the current detailed planning commission which was granted in 2021 and this permission retains the existing 1930s facade on Walton street creates a new facade at the back overlooking the car park while filling in the gaps between the remains of the former wings and this will provide 46 private residential apartments with a mix of one and two bedroom units the council was successful in obtaining grants with 690 000 from the government's brownfield land release fund through the one public estate program uh dependent on the scheme being used residential development and the current planning permission will expire in august so there is a need to make a decision now the benefits of this proposal are that it will bring the building back into use after buying empty for several years help with the regeneration of Alesbury town center utilize the existing planning commission and save the current running costs such as rates and utilities which are being incurred by the council that's it john thank you just one quick comment from me and i'd like to make a comment um well i'd like to ask Dave Skinner as our head of finance where it was called a one-five-one officer pat that's a statutory role he has uh maybe for his view on the commercial merits of this but i know that you know we've looked at various options to this building in new rule times one of the options it was potentially just a flatten the whole thing and look at it as a development site the only problem with that is we would always have to start all over again with the whole planning process um this would enable or this decision um represents effectively a contribution by the council to the value of the development of of the site um and it enables work to start quickly rather than effectively going back to square one again i understand some of the tensions within that debate um but i think the view collectively of cabinet when we've talked about this in separate meetings has been we just want to get on and get something done for Alesbury it's just so critical um having said that david you've obviously um been party to these discussions um i'm not sure i remember do want to go into the confidential session um we have obviously had sidebar meetings um between us on this are you confident david wearing your 151 statutory role pat that this um passes uh your criteria yes the site's been marketed and given the constraints on the site and the um the likelihood coming to have any planning process than the bid that we've received seems to be the maximum that's available and therefore make the mandatory relations that we have thank you david so um having heard that declaration from the 151 officer the option is here of going into confidential session should any member of cabinet wish to do so um i know you've all had the opportunity to read the confidential appendices and to take them into account if there's anything you wish to raise um in confidence i can ask us to go into confidential session can i just take a sounding from cabinet whether you wish to do so is there anybody here who wants to move into confidential session you're very free to do so okay i want any decision to be clear um and transparent because the public obviously will watch this and want to make sure that we're taking everything into consideration but i know members have had the opportunity to read this clearly before it's reached here we've had various uh informal meetings and discussions on this item um so i'm going to take it that no one wants to move into confidential session in which case are there any further questions on this particular item that's item uh the item item 11 but i've grouped it with item 16 Rachel it's not a question um particularly but just from a regeneration perspective i just wanted to say that i support this the building's been empty ten years i think it'd be great to get some we're living in the town center improve the vibrancy and as part of the overall strategy i think it aligns very well yes i completely agree i mean i've championed this for more years and i get a remember of it i'm only saying so you know it is a fantastic opportunity to get this go now mark wants to come in i do want to try and move to vote on this really quickly mark so very quick yeah it was it was just a point i just i do for this book this is uh this item and the previous item really does show this council's commitment to regenerate an eligible town center which was what we set out and our manifesto so it's really important that we get out of this and you're absolutely right we put this as a key part of our manifesto back in 2021 the show is the commitment of this administration to deliver him on that manifesto commitment and again if i can again play tribute to rob butter because he was instrumental in making sure that the government granted violence called brown brownfield and fund uh which is the amount of money from central government and credit to them on this that's enabled this particular development to be viable when it wasn't viable before so that's the reason it can come forward now when it couldn't come forward before so a real tangible demonstration of central government's commitment to regeneration in bakim shir particularly to alsbury and again the support of our local empire or butler has been fundamentally in achieving that in which case colleagues unless anyone has any further contributions to make can i put this recommendation to the vote that's the recommendations obviously in item 11 but taking into full account the confidential appendix in items 16 are you agree to that agreed fantastic thank you very much the confidential minutes we have already taken care of we do not need to exclude public we've covered the confidential session of the shareholder committee we've covered the confidential session of the alsbury town center public grounds game we've covered the confidential session of the old county offices alsbury we've covered the confidential minutes the cabinet meeting held on the 25th of march which brings us the ultimate denouement of this meeting item 19 the date of the next meeting which is scheduled for Tuesday the 18th of June 2024 at 10 a.m this has been a lengthy meeting i apologize to colleagues that we have our run i would say in mitigation i did think that item on primary care was so important to our residents that it warranted a very full and frank discussion on it so again i thank you for your your indulgence on that but it really was a key item i think for us all as indeed was the work on supporting residents in need helping hands and indeed the regeneration strategy for alsbury so some really key items today anyone who is still watching this i hope you recognize the commitment this cabinet and indeed this council has to some of the most important priorities that the residents of this county have and having said that i will conclude this meeting and formally close this meeting of bakim shan council's company thank you all very much indeed
Transcript
Board of Trustees, thank you very much, good morning ladies and gentlemen, welcome to this meeting of the Cabinet of Buckinghamshire Council, it's an honour to be here, I've actually just been away for two weeks, so it's back in the saddle, first thing on this morning, after a fairly wet drizzly bank holiday, somebody I saw posted about it being a typical bank holiday, for England yet it was, it really really was, it was really ghastly, yes there was a hammering down certainly as part of the world. Can I just remind members that although we can hear everybody in this room extremely well if you don't use your microphones, the reason you must use the microphones is because this meeting is being webcast, if you don't use the mics your voice will not be recorded but it does look very strange when you watch your webcast, when you can see somebody's mouth moving but can't actually hear a word they're saying. So the mics are very important, we all forget from time to time clearly myself but I will job people's memories if they do that, if there's anybody here who does not want to be webcast in the words they have personal reasons for not being on the camera, there are seats reserved whereby people can go and sit in those places and then be out of the camera range and I know there's some very shy, retiring warflowers in this room who may wish to avail themselves of that. Okay, I think that's most things I wanted to say immediately. So we just want to straight into the meeting. In terms of apologies for absence, Stephen Rawban one of the deputy leaders is not able to be here today so we can just register Steve's absence, that would be great. Have we had any other apologies for absence? Don't see or hear of any. If I can maybe just welcome a new attendee to these meetings. Lisa Murray, sitting to my right to place this down, is our new head of legal. This is your first meeting I think at a cabinet meeting. You're very welcome. You can enjoy the delights of the meeting at the Montgomery Council cabinet and you're here in your role I believe as deputy monitoring officer so you're very, very welcome indeed. The minutes of the last meeting is the second item on the agenda. They have been previously circulated. They relate to the meeting held on the 25th of March and they're on pages 5 to 10 of the agenda pack. Maybe I could just say for anybody watching this meeting for the first time, all the papers are available online. It's a lot easier if you actually look at the papers as we talk about them because members may refer to particular pages or particular paragraphs and it would be more meaningful if you can see the context of what's being discussed. I will try and remind everybody of which pages we're on as we get to be changed on the agenda. The minutes of the last meeting are on pages 5 to 10 of the pack. They have been circulated. Members have had the opportunity to make amendments to them. This is really a final bite in the cherry in terms of any final tweaks you'd like to make those minutes. If you agree they are a true and accurate record. I will then be signing them as such. Thank you. Item three on the agenda is declarations of interest. Again, just for anybody watching for the first time, every member sitting here has already made declarations of interest. They're on the register and available on the website. This is the opportunity for any additional declarations of interest. Having seen the agenda, there may be some items here that suddenly you think, hang on a minute, I'm somehow involved in that particular issue in some way either in a personal or pecuniary way. It's an opportunity to make that known to the public. Again, I'll just pause to see if any members wish to lodge an additional declaration of interest. I assume none to be declared. We move on to item four, which is hot topics. Hot topics is not everything that we've done over the last couple of weeks. I won't be describing my two weeks away in any detail, but it is an opportunity for members to update both the public, the media and also non-executive members of Council on particularly important things that have happened in their own portfolio areas. If I could just move around the table in order, Andrew, you've been standing in for me for the last two weeks. Is there anything you want to update either on your own portfolio or on a wider perspective? Leader, it's been very quiet. Welcome back. It's been very quiet and peaceful here. There's nothing particular as the burning hot topic that I wish to update people on. By way of introduction I'm Angela McPherson and I'm deputy leader and look after the health and well-being portfolio. Which will be incredibly relevant with the agenda we have today. Are you trying to imply that when I'm not here, everything's quite quiet and peaceful? Well managed. Well managed. I'm getting the message. John, John Shilva. Thank you, Leader. Welcome back. I'm John Shilva, a cabinet member for accessible housing and resources. I do have one hot topic which is that today we are going to the market to invite tenders from perspective development partners with the Woodlands side which is a major development site on the east of Alesbury with new housing, commercial and sports facilities. It will also help the delivery of the eastern link road which is an important section in the network of new roads around Alesbury. John, thank you. That's actually very good news because I know that the delivery of the ring road is one of the key priorities we have as a council. Alesbury is a terribly congested town as I think we all know. Anyone who crawls into Alesbury every day and back again in the evening knows how difficult that can be. Actually getting these ring roads delivered is a really important thing, Chris, to do. I just hope that obviously with the development here that we make sure as part of the whole Garden Town ethos that this is a really high quality development that we can all be proud of. Do you want to, Anita, Anita Cranmer? Thank you, Anita Cranmer. Portfolio for Children's Services Education and Skills. I do have a hot topic. It's a bit of a teaser hot topic because we had off several of you about education last week which I do want to thank all the staff who worked so hard to put it together and the feedback that we got on Friday was very positive. I cannot say more because Sandra and Baga, but that's a good hot topic. So it was very positive but you can't say more. Okay, right. I don't want to read into that. Yes, I do, hopefully. Sounds good, Anita, and congratulations. Not prematurely to you and all of the team involved. Looking for relevant players over the side of the table. Whoever is currently looking after the Children's Services portfolio sounds really good news. Peter, Peter Strackett. Morning leader, welcome back. Peter Strackett and Kevin, member for Planning and Regeneration. I have no hot topics but today I am accompanied by Councillor Rachel Matthews, one of my deputies, but I let Rachel introduce herself, but she's here because of a specific interest in an agenda item. Yeah, I'm very, very, very welcome just again to explain to anybody watching. One of the things we do here, we have a system of both cabinet members and deputy cabinet members. Deputies look after specific aspects of the portfolios. I do allow deputies to attend cabinet meetings where they have a specific item on the agenda and they can comment on those. They're not constitutionally allowed to vote on the item. So it would be, for example, Peter who would vote formally on the item. But obviously, since you lead on this particular topic, you're very welcome here today. And it's good to have you. Just to say Rachel Matthews, deputy cabinet member for Town Centre Regeneration, very happy to be here today to present a paper that we have on Regeneration in the Town Centre in Alesbury. Great. And I will just pay tribute also because Peter Martin, who's one of the deputy cabinet members on the transport portfolio, is also here are just sitting over to my right.
Summary
The Buckinghamshire Council Cabinet meeting focused on several key issues, including the planning for future primary healthcare, cost of living support for residents, and regeneration projects in Aylesbury. The meeting was marked by detailed discussions on these topics, reflecting the council's commitment to addressing both immediate and long-term needs of the community.
Planning for Future Primary Healthcare: The council reviewed a joint select committee report on healthcare planning. The discussion highlighted the complexity of integrating healthcare facilities with urban development, especially concerning funding and logistical challenges. The council agreed to most recommendations, aiming to improve collaboration with the Integrated Care Board (ICB) and enhance data use for service planning. The decision underscores the council's intent to better align healthcare infrastructure with population growth and urban development plans.
Cost of Living Support: The council approved the continuation of the Helping Hands program, allocating £4 million to assist residents affected by the cost of living crisis. The program includes support for food, energy bills, and other essentials. Discussions emphasized the importance of transitioning residents towards self-sufficiency, as the funding is temporary. This decision reflects the council's ongoing commitment to supporting vulnerable populations during economic challenges, while also considering the sustainability of such support.
Regeneration Projects in Aylesbury: Two major regeneration projects were discussed: the public realm scheme and the redevelopment of the old county offices. The council approved plans to transform the Gala Bingo site into a vibrant public space and to convert the old county offices into residential apartments. These projects aim to revitalize Aylesbury's town center, attract more residents and businesses, and improve the overall economic and social vitality of the area. The decisions highlight the council's proactive approach to urban redevelopment and its potential positive impact on local communities.
The meeting was notably collaborative, with extensive input from various stakeholders, illustrating the council's comprehensive approach to governance and community engagement. In this meeting of the Buckinghamshire Council Cabinet, key topics discussed included the tender process for the Woodlands site development in Alesbury, a positive update on education from the recent Ofsted review, and the introduction of new council members. The meeting also covered routine administrative matters such as the approval of previous meeting minutes and declarations of interest.
Woodlands Site Development in Alesbury: John Shilva, the cabinet member for accessible housing and resources, announced the initiation of a tender process for development partners for the Woodlands site. This site is planned to include new housing, commercial spaces, and sports facilities, and is crucial for the completion of the eastern link road around Alesbury. Shilva highlighted the importance of this development in alleviating congestion in Alesbury and ensuring the project aligns with the Garden Town ethos to achieve a high-quality development.
Education Update: Anita Cranmer, Portfolio for Children's Services Education and Skills, provided a teaser about a recent positive Ofsted review concerning education. Although details were limited, the feedback received was very encouraging, and Cranmer expressed gratitude towards the staff involved in the review process.
Introduction of New Council Members: The meeting welcomed Lisa Murray, the new head of legal and deputy monitoring officer. This was her first cabinet meeting, and her presence was acknowledged as an important addition to the council's legal team.
Administrative Matters: The minutes from the previous meeting held on March 25th were approved as a true and accurate record. There were no new declarations of interest noted during the meeting.
Other Updates: Peter Strackett, cabinet member for Planning and Regeneration, mentioned that he had no specific updates but was accompanied by Rachel Matthews, deputy cabinet member for Town Centre Regeneration, who was present to discuss a specific agenda item related to Alesbury town center regeneration.
The meeting was conducted efficiently, with reminders about the importance of using microphones for the webcast and the availability of seating arrangements for those preferring not to be on camera.
Attendees
Documents
- Agenda frontsheet 07th-May-2024 10.00 Cabinet agenda
- Question Time Supplement 07th-May-2024 10.00 Cabinet
- All in one agenda pack 07th-May-2024 10.00 Cabinet agenda
- Cabinet Response to Joint Select Committee Review 07th-May-2024 10.00 Cabinet
- Decisions 07th-May-2024 10.00 Cabinet
- Printed minutes 07th-May-2024 10.00 Cabinet minutes