Transcript

Committee. My name is Councillor David Robson. Before we start the meeting, I've got a few announcements to make about the meeting rules. This meeting is hosted by Lambeth and has been broadcast live via audio minutes and recordings may be used for quality and training purposes. In the event that technical issues require the meeting to be adjourned and it cannot be restarted within a few minutes, further updates will be posted on the Council of Democracy X, formerly Twitter, account which is, and please make a note of this, at LBL Democracy. I'm chairing the meeting from here at the Town Hall, so if there's any fire alarms that go off, they're not scheduled, so you'll have to excuse me while we have to attend to that. To ensure that this meeting runs smoothly, I ask that for all those that are attending online, and I think most of you have, to please clearly write your name, ensure that your microphone is off at all times unless when speaking, so that we don't have any other interferences if you're in a shared office or if you're at home, and you've got homes under the hammer on or something. Any person speaking must be permitted to finish what they're saying without interruption. If I request that an individual stop speaking, they should do so immediately. Interruptions may result in you being disconnected from the meeting, and as I said, to make sure the meeting runs smoothly, only one individual is allowed to speak at a time, but rest assured, those who have expressed that they're speaking, or are not the applicant, or are speaking on behalf of the applicant, you will get your fair share of time to speak. Members of the public are welcome to record or tweet the public proceedings of the meeting. Please note that the subcommittee will notify interested parties of its decisions on each applicant within five working days. Now, before we go any further, I would like to nominate an election of the chair. I nominate yourself, Councillor Robson. Thank you, Councillor De Silva. Do I have a seconder? Sorry, I was mute. Councillor Gardner seconded you. Good. Leaving me hanging there, Councillor Gardner. But on that basis, may I ask my fellow committee to introduce themselves? Councillor Gardner, do you want to go first? Councillor Gardner, Councillor for Brixton Rush Common Ward. Thanking you. And Councillor De Silva. Good afternoon, everyone. Councillor Serena De Silva, Councillor for Waterloo and South Bank Ward. And, Councillors, at this stage, do you have any declarations of interest in today's proceedings? No. I have none either. Just before we move on to the minutes and then setting the agenda, can I just ask my officers and the licensing officer team to quickly introduce themselves, please? Mr. Richards, I'll hand over to you first. Good afternoon, all. I hope all is well. My name is Paul Richards. I will be presenting the Marks and Spencers case as the licensing authority and the responsible authority for the Portland Road application. Thanks, Paul. Mr. Atkinson, do you want to go next, please? Good afternoon. Thank you, Chair. My name is Justin Atkinson. I'm a Lamb of Council licensing officer. I'll be presenting to you today the hybrid application and also the commune studios application. And as a responsible authority, I'll be representing my rep in relation to the Marks and Spencers application. Thank you. Jacqueline. Good afternoon, everyone. I'm Jacqueline Pennycook, Democratic Services. I should have said Mrs. Pennycook, but I didn't know if it was Mrs. or Mrs. Pennycook. So apologies, Jacqueline. And finally, there's Selina. Again, sorry, I didn't know whether to say Mrs. or Mrs. Apologies. No worries. Hi, everyone. I'm Selina Wiaffi and I'm the legal advisor to the committee this afternoon. And just apologies. My camera isn't working. So that's why it's off. Thank you, Selina. Okay, so the item number three, minutes of the meeting. Does the subcommittee agree the minutes of the previous meeting held on the 25th of November 2024? Feels like a lifetime ago. Agreed. Agreed. Thank you very much. So the three applications we'll be hearing this afternoon are going to be heard in this order. First up, we will have the variation application of Marks and Spencers at 446 to 450 Brixton Road, London, SW98ED. Then we will hear from number two, which is the hybrid bar restaurant at 22 Streatham High Road, SW161DB, which is a new application. And finally, we will hear from Commune Studios, Arch 657, Port Slate Road, London, SW83DH, which is a new application. If you, apologies to Commune if you are last, so we won't be offended if you want to pop your camera off, but you're obviously welcome to stay for the proceedings, same for hybrids. But we'll kick things off, if I may, with Marks and Spencers, which I believe, Justin, you're going to introduce the report, is that right? Sorry, Chen, I believe it's... It's Paul. Paul Richards. I knew I'd fall at the first hurdle. Sorry. After a month's break for Christmas, everyone, I apologise. But Paul, over to you. Good afternoon, all. We're here today. I will be presenting the Marks and Spencers variation application. The application is for Marks and Spencers PLC, which is located at 446 to 450 Brixton Road, London, SW98ED. As I said, the application is for variation. It's varying the times of operations. The application is requesting to... Sorry. Open from Monday to Saturday from 0700 hours, 7 a.m. until 11, 2300 hours, Monday to Saturday. And on the Sunday, 10 a.m. to 10.30 p.m., which is no change to the existing. So the only change is an extra hour from Monday to Saturday, changing from 0800 hours to 0700 hours. The application was submitted. The applicant displayed their notices in the right and proper manner, complying with the Licensing Act. The application went out for consultation. Within the 28 days of consultation, the Licensing Authority received one representation, which was submitted by the Licensing Authority, objecting to the application. On the grounds that is outside of the Council's licensing policy. In between that 28 days, conversations were had and a list of conditions were proposed, which was accepted by the application, by the applicant. Here today to speak on behalf of the application is Mr. John Walsgrove, or Walsgrove, sorry, the solicitor. And where also present is Alfie McCann, who is the store manager for the premises. Justin Atkinson is also here on behalf of the Licensing Authority. The report can be found on page 19 of the bundle, 19 to 23. The application form is located on page 25 to 34. And the representation submitted is on page 35 to 37. A copy of the current license is on page 39 to 47. And it's accompanied by photographs and the map of the location. That concludes my introduction at the moment, unless there are any questions. None from me, team? Nope. Not at this stage. Thank you, Mr. Richards. Thank you. Can I just ask, is the applicant, I can see your name, is it Mr. Walsgrove? And, sorry, I can't see. Is it Mr. McCann? Can you both have your cameras on, please? Ah, Mr. Walsgrove, there you are. Hi. And Mr. McCann, thanks very much. So we will then move on to the applicant to be able to speak to the committee. You have up to five minutes, Mr. Walsgrove, if you're going to be leading it. I mean, you don't have to take all that time, but we can give you up to five minutes from now. Thank you, Jen. Good afternoon, councillors. Just a very brief background to this application. As you've heard, it's just to extend the hours by one hour Monday to Saturday. Marks & Spencer's undertook an extensive refurbishment of this store last year. Hopefully you've all been visitors to it and have seen the great work that they've done. But essentially, the application is to just allow it to open up that hour earlier. And that's because a number of their competitors, convenience stores in the area are already trading earlier than Marks & Spencer's. And following the refurbishment, it's become obvious that the customers that use Marks & Spencer's also want to be able to shop earlier. So within a very short walking distance of Marks & Spencer's, you've got two Sainsbury's, a co-op and two independent convenience stores who all open earlier and sell alcohol earlier. Now, I'm not putting that to you on the basis that because everyone else has got an earlier license, M&S should have it. I put that on the basis that those shops are trading that earlier hour and there is no evidence that that's having any adverse impact on the local community in terms of the licensing objectives, which I appreciate Justin is going to talk to you about your policy and what the policy hours are. But I'd put that forward on the basis that it's a credible contention that if M&S were allowed to sell alcohol from Severn, there wouldn't be any adverse inference. Also, I'll just draw your attention in the report to the fact that the store have had temporary event notices during December. So they had a total of 20 days during December where they did sell alcohol from 7am without any adverse impact. And not only that, they've had temporary event notices in December over the last 10 years opening up earlier, again, without any issues. And I think the last point to make is that the police as responsible authority have not made a representation and if there were to be any adverse impact on the crime and disorder objective, you would have expected them to have made a representation. They haven't. So I'm asking and inviting you to attach weight to that and overarching all those representations, of course, you as an experience committee will know that there is the power of review under the licensing act. And if anything went awry in the future, which I can assure you it won't. But if it did, the licence can come back before this committee and be dealt with very swiftly. So on that basis, I think I'll leave it there. Obviously, myself and Alfie, who's the deputy store manager. Unfortunately, the manager is unavailable today, but we can answer any questions if you have any. Thank you, Mr. Walsgrove. Committee, do you have any questions at this stage? Councillor God? Yeah, I guess what Paul Richard said was that he put some objections to you and asked you to approve other conditions and he said you'd approve those conditions. I'd just like to hear you confirm that. I'm very grateful, Councillor Gardner. That was one thing I forgot to say, but yes, those are agreed. So if you decide to grant the variation, those are all to be included as per your papers on 36 and 37. Thank you very much. Important clarification. Thank you. Councillor De Silva, anything at this stage? No. No, not at this stage. Thank you. So it is now we ask interested parties to come to the table, which I believe on this is the licensing authority. So Justin, is that going to be you? That's correct, Chair. Thank you very much. Good afternoon, once again. My name is Justin Atkinson on behalf of the Responsible Licensing Authority under Section 13.4 of the Licensing Act 2003, as amended under the Police and Social Responsibility Act 2011, having considered the application in full. And as a result, the License Responsible Licensing Authority had concerns in regards to the application initially. The main concerns were commencement hours that the applicant was seeking, which was beyond our policy. As stated, on Appendix 5, page 52 of our Licensing Policy, where it states the premises operate as a food store, which includes alcohol products. According to the current licensing policy, the premises are located within the Brixton Town Centre, and the recommended earliest time in the policy for the premises selling alcohol for consumption off-premises in this area is 11am. Further to that, we had concerns that there weren't conditions that was demonstrating how they were going to promote the licensing objectives, so therefore I put forward conditions which, rightly so, John did agree to those conditions, thank you very much, so I believe my rep still stands, but the rep still stands solely on the fact that this application is outside the licensing policy. Thanks Justin. Thanks Justin. Thanks Justin. Thanks Justin. Colleagues, any questions to Justin at this stage? No? Well, we're cooking with gas. So, unless you do, at this stage we can ask the committee, can we call Mr. Wolfgrove to ask any further questions, or Mr. Wolfgrove, Mr. McCann, if there's anything else that you'd like to say, I think we will take this to determination. Nope? Nothing to say at this stage? Okay, well, everybody hold tight, we will just go off to deliberate, this can take anywhere from 10 to half an hour, but hold tight and we will be back with you, Jacqueline will let you know when we're going to be coming back in very shortly. Thank you. Hello everyone, this is Jacqueline Pinnacook, Democratic Services, just to let you know that the committee are nearly finished with their deliberations and we should be joining the meeting in around five minutes. Thank you. Afternoon, everybody. Is everybody back in the room, including the public applicants? Yes, brilliant. Thank you, Mr. Wolfgrove and Mr. McCann. Just to see if the team are here. Councillor Gardner, Councillor Silver. Brilliant. Yes, everybody's back now, Chair. Lovely. Okay, thank you. That was a quick deliberation, but nonetheless, I think because the conditions have been accepted, but I will read out the determination of the license subcommittee having considered the variation application and having received confirmation from the applicant solicitor that the premises are agreeable to the proposed conditions. Members of the licensing subcommittee have resolved to grant the variation application as presented with the agreed conditions settled on pages 36 and 37 of the report pack. Members were satisfied that the imposition of the agreed conditions were appropriate and in promoting the licensing objectives. You should be notified within five days of the decision and of course you can appeal. Thank you, Councillor. Thank you very much. Thanks. Okay, moving on to the second application of this afternoon is hybrid bar. Let me just bring up my notes of speakers. Bear with me a second, everybody. So, yes, do I, we, so I'm actually, whilst I'm looking that up, I'm going to invite the licensing officers to present the report. Now, correct. This is you on this occasion, isn't it, Paul? No, Justin again. Why do I keep mixing you up? So I'm just testing you both. No problem. Sure. Thank you very much. Sorry. No, that's all good. Thank you everyone. Good afternoon, everyone. Um, this is an application for a premises license, new application. Um, the premises is called hybrid bar restaurant. Uh, 22 Streatham High Road, London SW 16 1 DB. The applicant name is Mr. Carlos Harris. Um, and this is an application, um, seeking for the following lifestyle activities. Um, live music Monday to Sunday from 11 a.m. until 11 p.m. initially. Recording music and entertainment similar to the music and of dance indoors. From Monday to Wednesday from 8 a.m. until 11 p.m. Thursday from 8 a.m. until midnight. Friday and Saturday from 8 a.m. to 1 a.m. in the morning. And for the set of retail alcohol on the premises from Monday, 11 p.m. to 2 a.m. Um, Monday to Wednesday from 11 p.m. to 2 p.m. Thursday, um, 11 p.m. until midnight. Friday, um, and Saturday from 11 p.m. to 1 p.m. And, and this included seasonal variations with the opening hours of Monday to Wednesday from 8 a.m. to 11 o'clock. Thursday from 8 a.m. until midnight. And Friday and Saturday from 8 a.m. to 1 a.m. During the 28-day consultation period, discussions between the applicant and the lifestyle authority, um, conditions and reduced hours were agreed. The agreed hours are as follows, uh, Monday to Sunday from 11 a.m. to 11 p.m. with the seasonal variations withdrawn for live music, recorded music, and entertainment similar to the music and dance. Late night refreshments indoors withdrawn, uh, uh, set by route of alcohol on the premises from Monday to Sunday from 11 a.m. to 11 p.m. with seasonal variations withdrawn. Um, with the opening hours from Monday to Wednesday from 8 a.m. to 11 p.m. and Friday and Saturday from 8 a.m. to 11.30 p.m. The list of agreed conditions attached to report at Annex C and can be found on page 73 on the public report. Um, subsequently, uh, 22 representations were received against the application. One from the council's public protection team and the remaining 21 were from the members of public. These representations were based on the licensing objectives of the prevention of public nuisance, prevention of crime disorder and public safety, and protection of children from harm. The representations highlighted concerns about hours sought originally and as revised, and the operation of the premises before and previously held license lapse, which residents alleged had created an environment that fostered crime disorder. They also highlighted concerns that the premises contributed to public nuisance and noise in the area. Additionally, they were concerned about the application, if granted, would negatively impact the physical and mental wellbeing of residents and those in the local area. The representations can be found in the report between pages 77 and 121, Annex D. The last date for making representations was the 20th of November, 2024. Um, bit of background history. Between July 2022 and October 2024, the premises had the benefit of a premises license. However, the license authority became aware of the company which held the license that had been dissolved and the premises license which location lapsed on the 21st of October 2024. A copy of the lapse license is attached to report at Annex F page 141. On the 12th of October 2023, the application was refused by license subcommittee. Um, and the report can be found on page 153 Annex G. Um, this concludes my introduction. If there's any questions, I'm happy to assist. Thanks so much, Justin. Um, colleagues, uh, are there any questions at this stage for Justin? Bear in mind, I can't see you cause you're not on my screen at the minute. So you'll have to. No. Sign mute. No, not at this stage. Thank you both. Um, just to. I'm going to call in the applicant at this stage, but I just want to acknowledge that there's quite a few representations on this. Um, but we, I will come to under section five of interested parties. Um, the world currently moving into section three. Um, I, I do have some of your names written down here, but I will do a roll call just to check that you're all here a little bit later on. But at this stage, I'd like to ask, um, Mr. Carlos Harris. Um, yes, there you are. So hello. Um, you now have up to five minutes, uh, to address the committee. Um, yeah. Go from there, sir. Thank you very much. I appreciate your time. Um, so yeah, applied for the license due to, as mentioned by Ms. Atkins, the lapse in the previous license. Um, historically the venue had a license for sale of alcohol and license earnable activities between 11 and 11. Um, with no issues brought to my attention or registered via the license in, um, between these hours, um, applying for this license again. Uh, just due to the nature of the business, um, and due to the neighboring businesses also having these licensing, um, abilities between those hours. Um, which I don't believe would have any meet my application. I don't believe it would have any adverse effect on any other neighboring areas or the local community. Um, as Mr. Atkins mentioned, an application was put through for times and less of license enable activities between particular times. Um, and I've spoken to licensing since I put that application in due to a few concerns that came through. Um, I've drawn back those hours and certain licensing activities, um, to fit within what I believe would be comfortable to the local area. Um, for businesses that also I'm familiar with and I have good relationships with, um, all work within those hours with those same licensing activities. And obviously through historical trade that I have done personally myself, um, over the last year have had no issues within those hours, um, between 11 AM and 11 PM. Um, looking at the concerns that the neighboring, uh, the neighbors have, uh, I think I've tried to kind of condense it down to maybe three to four different areas. One being noise nuisance. Um, law, I think it's near enough in that about a year now we have had a noise limiter installed, um, and changed our speaker system, which since then I've had no noise complaints. Um, brought to my attention from the licensing from January, 2024, although I believe by the documents, there was one put in at the very beginning, beginning of February, 2024. Um, in regards to that fights, drugs and disorderly behavior, we've had no issues with the police, no CAD numbers registered, whether that be via the police or ambulance. Um, and no issues of reported drug use within the venue, um, via our incident report or, um, via the licensing team themselves. Um, I mean, all my staff are trained in various areas, whether it be challenge 25, ask Angela monitoring, um, alcohol consumption. And we've got a dispersal unit as well that we employ, um, and do regular training just in regards to hospitality and safeguarding of local community. So just applying for this license to essentially get back what we had before to, um, operate within the area. Um, but I have major, major, major appreciation for any concerns that any of the neighbors have. Um, we have had, uh, that call in meetings before where the best that we can do is post it on our windows. Um, and have had only maybe one or two people, um, actually coming for these meetings to kind of address their, um, concerns. Um, and then I think lastly was mentioned off the communal garden area, which is at the back of the venue. Um, on the last hearing, I agree that I didn't want public use for it. I don't allow public use for it and never have. Um, it's actually used more for storage, but it is a joint, um, use communal area, not just for myself, but for about seven other businesses via private gate. Um, which is actually unfortunately used a lot for fly tipping. Um, whereas me and a few of the other business owners tend to have to try and clear this area up, but none of us actually use it for public use. So, uh, yeah, I think that that's my case. Thank you very much. Um, at this stage, I'd invite the committee to ask Carlos, um, any questions they may have for Council of Garden straight in. Yeah. This may sound a fairly complicated question. Um, in March, you, the license was turned, the application was turned down. There were quite a few letters between you and licensing about noise, about insulation and a delimiter, all those letters which are in the pack. Uh, all the, um, um, conditions that you have accepted include the insulation is working and the, um, noise limiter is there and so on. Which makes all that sound as if everything has been addressed, but there's nothing in the pack that shows us that in fact you did do the things that were discussed with licensing previously. Nor is there anything from licensing that says they are, they are aware that they have happened and you aren't even saying they have happened other than what you just said. Now you said a limiter has been installed. So could you sort of clarify that and perhaps explain why the pack doesn't make that clearer? Okay. No problem at all. So I have actually had licensing, um, come down. Uh, I can get the gentleman's name. Um, it's left the top of my head now, but I have actually got him on email, um, where he actually came down and took a picture just to prove that the limiter had been installed. Um, and that I had changed the speaker system. I have had my basement, um, tap. Well, you call it soundproofing, um, but like a membrane put up to reduce base levels and sound levels as well. Um, and I believe the last point was that an arrangement between a particular, I don't know who this person is. Um, neighbor was to find a time to actually test the levels. Um, but I've not had anything back since then. Um, but it's something that I'm very easily able to do. I just need to turn the music on, but it just needs to be at their leisure. Um, on, on an arrangement. Just to jump in quickly, Councillor Gardner, just before I come up to you, Councillor De Siver, just on this point, um, Mr. Harris. Yeah. You said someone's been down. Could you tell us a date and time please? Cause otherwise that's for the birds. I mean, I've just literally just checked on my email now. It was a gentleman called Ola from licensing. Yep. Um, yeah. So he came down and took picture evidence of the date, time. Do you have that bit? I can double check. A guesstimate? Like has it, was it after March 24th? Yeah. Yeah. It would have been after March 24th. After March. Yes. It had to have been after March. Yeah. Cause I believe it was the conversation you, you're mentioning with Matthew. I believe it was that's, that's in the pack. So yeah, definitely after March. Right. Ah, well, why isn't that in the pack? I don't know who to ask. Yeah, but definitely, um, Ola came down and took pictures and I said, is everything like, do you need anything else from me? And then he, the only other thing he mentioned was, um, an arrangement needs to be made between said person upstairs. But as I don't know who that person is, I can't infrastructure implement that. Thank you. Councillor De Silva, I'll come to you because you've been waiting patiently. Thank you, Jess. Um, it was a, it was a really similar question because in page 77 to 78, we have an email from Matthew, um, to the licensing team. Matthew is the community safety and resilience regulatory noise officer. And he said he hadn't received a response from the applicant, um, in addressing the noise limiting, uh, setting and the insulation to control the noise. That was back in November, which would mean that I'm assuming Ola may have come after November, 2024, or if he had come before. My question is, why would Ola not have told Matthew that he'd seen all of that has been implemented? Um, I'm a little concerned that we're missing that if that has actually happened. But the applicant, uh, Mr Harris has answered that, that question from his side. Yeah. Just, sorry, just to quickly cut. I can 100% confirm it was before November that, um, Ola came. Okay. Um, are there any other questions at this stage before we get on to public protection? Or interested parties as it were? No. I mean, I suppose I'd just like to hear a little bit more, Mr Harris, on the business, because obviously on the functionality of it, just to get a bit of a picture of what's kind of going to be happening a bit, because, you know, the pack, we can read the pack, but I think hearing from you as the applicant business owner helps bring it to life a little bit. Yeah. So, uh, essentially the initial plan was to be a bar restaurant, um, quite quickly, just with how hospitality is at the moment and how things are changing ever so quickly. That weirdly changed into now being a restaurant bar. Um, weirdly enough, the food serves more for purpose than the drink sometimes. So, um, it is a sit down, um, bar restaurant, restaurant bar, um, very intimate, very relaxed. Um, there is the, I have put in 10 applications before for, um, kind of like group parties where it may be, um, like a Christmas party or a company party, um, before they don't tend to work as well as normal trade. Um, but yeah, we are a two floor, I believe it's 35, 50, 69 capacity, seated, um, venue, um, serve food, serve drink. Um, and you know, there's no intentions of sweeping tables to a side and, and chair and all that kind of bits above to then make it like a dance floor or anything like that. No, so I've agreed to the term that was, um, in the license that chairs and tables have to say, um, where they are when they can't be moved to, as you mentioned, create a dance floor or anything like that. Thank you. Were there any more questions to the council garden? Sorry, just a tiny bit of clarification. You talked about the tens. Am I right in thinking that the one to three, the four tens that took place between the 16th of November and the 21st of December, but which there were no apparent complaints? Those were after you had implemented this noise thing, the limiter, which we don't officially know about. Yeah, correct. Yeah, right. Okay. That all makes sense. Thank you. Yeah. Unless there's any more at this stage. I will then move on to interested parties, but before we come on to residents and I do a roll call of who's here. I just think it's probably for wanting you to pick up Justin under the licensing, but as public protection aren't able to attend today due to leave. And I think both Adrian and Serena's questions were very much to be answered by public protection. So I suppose I would like to give you the opportunity as the licensing officer, maybe to either, you can either repeat them, Adrian or Serena, but I think it's probably worth. Maybe trying to address it. Well, it's just that in February, March there were discussions with licensing about actions to be taken on sound deadening and sound delimiting, which looked promising, but there didn't seem to be any response from licensing or public protection to say that it had happened. And then licensing, as we said at the end in November turned around and said nothing seems to have happened. Sorry, there's been a hand up here by Rhea. Are you from public protection? What was that? No, sorry, it was in response to something else, but I can speak under public interested parties. Are you a member of the public, sorry? Yes, sorry. Not at this stage then, so I'll be calling you in following this section. So bear with. Thank you. You've got my hopes up there, Rhea. Justin, so did you want to come in to answer Adrian's question, please, if possible? Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Councillor Adrian Garland. So reading through the report, there was no reference to a visit taking place in and around November from the licensing team or public protection. However, I'm not ruling out that it didn't take place, but unfortunately, as you're aware, Ola was unable to make it today and public protection have not attended to this meeting. To answer those questions, so I can't unfortunately answer that question because I'm not okay with the information. Okay. Well, I suppose it leaves us in a weird position of not knowing whether we don't have anything in the pack as to confirm. And we have to take Mr Harris's, you know, there's no reason to say that hasn't took place, as Justin's just said, but it hasn't been included, then that's quite a big omission for us and informing our decision, I'd say. Of course. But I'll just acknowledge that, but then at this stage, we will probably move on to hear from members of the public. Okay. Now, there was a number of representations on this matter. I believe in attendance we have Altaf Samji, Jennifer Braithwaite, Pooja Samji and Reyesar. Is there anybody else here from residents willing to, who wants to speak? Can you please just indicate by raising the emoji or raising a hand? Just then I've got it written down. No. Well, in that case, then I will come to Mr Samji first. Yes, you're right at the top there. Hello, sir. So I'll give you three minutes up to five minutes, but three minutes, ideally starting from now. Oh, you need to unmute yourself, sir. You can hear me. Oh, you've got two computers. No. You do. You've got, oh, you've signed in on two devices, are you? Sorry, Paul, is there an issue? I'm on a single device. So if you just hold one moment. Sorry, Paul, what's an issue? Oh, sorry, Chi. I just want to refer you to where Mr Samji's rep is within the pack. To state the pager number. Yeah. Yeah. Representation is on page 89 to 91. And also on page 130. Thank you for that clarification. Sorry. Yes, I should say to everybody who's speaking, you can only speak to what it is that you filed. And yeah, I have to quote your page number for the sake of accuracy within the minutes. Thank you for that, Paul. Sorry, Mr Samji. Go for it. Sorry, but are you hearing two of me? We are, but it's fine. We can hear and see you. It's fine soon. Okay. Thank you. Sorry about that. I don't know what's causing that. It's okay. Oh, now you muted yourself. Okay. There we go. So I'm just going to, I'm going to read from a, you know, from my printout. And as someone who's observed the comings and goings in the vicinity of Broadlands for the last 35 years, I'm also director of Broadlands. None of us residents or leaseholders have ever heard of Mr Harris. There was a bar opposite ours called Mint, then Brighton Road, and which is now SW 16. There were all sorts of problems with loud music, fights, drugs, antisocial behaviour, including prostitution. As customers left the bar, they were sometimes found in a drunken stupor sitting on the steps leading to our terrace, shouting, urinating, vomiting, and behaving unsociably. Their license was revoked. Who will control the inevitably inebriated customers once they leave the nightclub? Customers who park their cars on Broadlands Avenue tend to be loud when drunk, buy food from local joints and sit on our steps to eat, often leaving the wrappers and worse there. Their behaviour can be threatening if you have to walk past them to get to your flat late at night. We have families with young children living at Broadlands and Stone Hills. There are several venues like the SW 16, Stanleys, Rebel in Five Bells, and several of them are open till very late in the small hours of the morning. Here's an experience of one resident who lives on the second floor of Broadlands, which is adjoining Stordinal Mansion. And I quote, on 20th December, I think many were, many people were away for Christmas. There was a late night event with loud music in a hybrid till 1 a.m. The music could be heard loudly within the ground floor of Broadlands residences and cause significant disruption. I went down at 12.45 to ask them to turn it down and the event ended at 1 a.m. There was no warning or contact number. This highlights a potential for disruption. If the license passes, then we would potentially have daily disruption to our ability to live in the building. I included in my objection that the building has children and young professionals planning family. We need to know what controls will be put in place to ensure that the music does not exceed certain decibels of sound. Taking photos of the delimiter does not prove that this works or that it has been tested with affected parties. Bearing in mind that this is Broadlands mentions that I'm talking about, I can imagine that the situation could be worse in the next building, the more affected building, which is Stonehill. When do we call? Just give you 30 seconds, please. Mr. Sorry. Who do we call at that hour if there are any complaints? How will noise be qualified? How many complaints before the license is revoked? And that's about it. Thank you very much. At this stage, sorry, I would have usually done this in alphabetical order. My apologies that I've got my sheet a bit mixed up. I'm going to come to Jennifer Braithwaite next. Hi, Jennifer. Yes, sorry. I'm not quite sure what your page number is. Sorry. Just one minute. Paul, can you just confirm? Yeah. Jennifer's rep can be found on page 101 to 102. Lovely. Thank you. And page 127 to 128. Lovely. Thank you. Over to you, please, Jennifer. Up to three minutes. Thank you very much. Thank you very much, Chair. First of all, I'd like to say that I used to be a former councillor and I do know Adrian and I do know Jacqueline, but of course there is no conflict of interest. Whilst I welcome the reduction in the opening hours, I think there is a need for really strong conditions and the current conditions which have been put forward to us. I don't think is strong enough and you will see from my representation that I have made suggestions about what the how you can actually increase the strength of those record and those conditions. One of the issues that I find of importance is the noise. And I have anecdotal evidence myself because I visited the venue on the 23rd of May last year for lunch around about 1.30 and the music was far too loud. I just I just couldn't believe it. It was irritating to me and I felt sorry for the people living above the premises. And I think that condition 31, the proposed condition 31 only mentions that a noise limiter should be fitted. But what it doesn't mention is that one of the decibel, whatever decibels, but it must not exceed. And this is really important to know. I think there should also be a condition that no no nuisance or disturbance should be caused from a noise coming from the premises or vibrations through the structure of the premises. And that all of the external doors and windows should should be should be closed during hours of operation. I think the license holder should be should be required to regularly assess the noise coming from the premises to ensure that that that the level is at the level of noise is at an acceptable level. I also think that there should be a limit on the number of patrons outside the premises to prevent noise, nuisance and disturbance for the residents who live above the premises. This is a strange one, but there is an external heater which is always used, which is outside the premises. And I think that there should be a condition banning the use of external gas fires, not only to prevent or to reduce CO2, but also I think is quite quite dangerous. And I'm not sure that they are not allowed to put such an item on the public highway. I am concerned about condition six, six, 16, which only refers to allowing not allowing people to enter with open vessels of alcohol. I think it should. I think it should. I think it should be unopened as well as opened vessels. There should be a condition 19 table a condition on a table and chairs. This is currently written in such a way as to allow the license holder to remove the table and chairs, stack them up to to the side. And I think this will only encourage the dancing and the playing of loud music and condition 21, which is really important. It is a condition relating to children under the age of 18 and it says that the actual current condition that they shouldn't be. They shall not. They shall be accompanied by a responsible adult whilst you're on the premises after 7pm. I don't think this is strong enough. If the premises is to run as a bar. Give me about 30 seconds, please, Jennifer. If the premises is going to be run as a bar, there should be a prohibition on allowing children on the premises after a certain hours. And let's say between the hours of 7 and 11pm. There's condition 24 on. Sorry, Jennifer, I'm going to have to get you to wrap up. Sorry. No, that's going to be fine. You've got my suggestions. I just think that these conditions should be carefully and strongly drafted. Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Jennifer. At this stage, I would like to bring in Pooja. Hi there. Can you hear me OK? Yes. Hang on, Paul. I'm not finished yet. Yes, McKinney. I'm just trying to see. There you are. Hello. Sorry. Hi. Thank you. Just for the sake of the minutes and accuracy, just want to say the representations of this one could be found on pages 113 to 115. So Pooja, over to you. So I think I can reiterate what most people have been saying here, what I've said, what Jennifer said. Just being a resident there. We haven't actually lived there for the last six months. We've come back. You know, families have opened in that time and things spill over from there. I think the key things here are the loud noise and disturbances. People leaving late night, you know, often congregate outside speaking, loudly shouting. Sometimes you can hear the music if someone's left the door open, whatever that may be. You know, even in the summer, that can affect us if we have to leave windows open because things are hot. A lot of antisocial behaviour and crime. Hi there. Serena, Serena. Sorry. Can I interrupt? Paul needs to give us the page numbers. I already did. 113 to 115. I'm so sorry. I'm very sorry. Sorry, Amal. Apologies. No problem at all. Thank you. But just for clarification, I am Amal. My wife is Pooja. We live together in the same building. We both, you know, submitted there just before clarification. Amal, Samji. On that clarification then. Sorry, because only representations who have been filed are able to address the committee. So I just need to have that double checked. Okay. Paul. Yeah. Just looking at the representation, it was submitted by. Pooja. Pooja. Sammy. Unless I would say the. Oh, right. So sorry. I'm just looking. Yep. Me too. But. Yeah. Just checking the ROM. Sorry. See who's. Yes, that wouldn't be accepted as the representation. Which does need to come from. I mean, I. I'm sorry. We would have to have to be notified in advance of the meeting. That's sure. I can. I can see if I can. I can get them to join the call. If you give me 30 seconds, I can try and see if they can join the call. Okay. That's fine. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. We pause that. Sorry. Just really. I'll tap. Sorry. We're just going to. I can't come for any other questions at this point. We need to keep this going. So. But in the meantime, there is another person. Isn't it rare? So your representation is on pages 116 to 117. Are you here? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've got. Actually tried that again. It's a bit of a dodgy connection. Can you hear me better now? It's a bit pixel. All right. Give it a whirl. Let me move and see if that helps. I can hear. Can you hear me open now? now? Yeah, that's better. That's better. Okay. Is that okay? Yep. Yep. Okay. So I think I agree with everything that's been said so far. Firstly, I welcome the idea of having additional culture and hospitality in the area. However, I have significant concerns, particularly about noise control. I was affected by the event on the 20th of December, as has been noted. So there's been a lot of discussion about the noise limiter that's been installed last January, and although there haven't been any formal complaints, there have been individual instances where we have experienced disruption. So I'd just like to paint a picture of what that looks like. I live above hybrid. And on the 20th of January, which was a Friday, I had a friend round for some pizza and we're watching television. We couldn't hear the television because we could hear the music. We may as well have been in a bar. And I could hear the individual lyrics of the song. I had to put subtitles on the television so that we could finish what we were watching. And then, as this continued, in the evening, a silent discord to go to sleep, I went downstairs to ask that the music was turned down, and spoke to the bartender and then the manager, who were really understanding and apologetic and really nice, but there was no other way of contact doing this. I could go outside, go downstairs, to do this. And It's actually just a really difficult experience. I feel really worried about whether that, if we're talking about Monday to Sunday, or even if we're talking about regular instances, how much this is going to disrupt my day-to-day life. My partner and I are planning a family day in that flat. And I can't imagine having a child in that flat with regular evening disturbances. I think it would be damaging to them psychologically. It would be damaging to me physically in terms of lack of relaxation in my own home. So I have significant concerns, particularly about the noise. I think that there needs to be more done to discuss or put limitations on the noise disruption that this will cause for neighbours. I have to note that at other times when hybrid is not running an event, I don't generally have significant concerns about the noise. So this is in the instance of one-off events where perhaps there is louder music to stand baseline. And so it would be helpful to understand what limitations are in place and also what neighbours can do other than go outside and go downstairs and try and speak to people to actually kind of counteract that when there is an issue. Thank you for letting me speak. Thank you, Ray. And apologies for the slight, yeah, sound issues at first, but we can hear you loud and clear. Fine. Thank you. And finally, I understand. And thank you, Altaf, for the clarification of that it's a miles wise, but I think even so, if somebody has made a representation, they need to have stated that when submitting, if it was going in in both names. But I can see that Pooja isn't on the call now anyway, which is great. So Pooja, over to you. Hi, thank you very much. Can you hear me okay? You can hear? Absolutely. Perfect. And just for clarification again, I'll just say for the sake, in case the committee need to know, your representation is on pages 113 to 115. Perfect. Thank you. I'm Pooja Samji. I live in Broadlands Mansions with my husband, Amor Samji, who was representing me earlier with similar concerns. I think some of the main points have been addressed in terms of the noise, which is applicable in my in my comments, the loud noise and disturbances and the antisocial behaviour. The specific point I wanted to make note of was my flat is the first one in block, so it's flat A. Often the gates within the security premises are left open, not by the residents. However, because of certain shops, restaurants downstairs, including hybrid, which will come about if there is loud music, etc. This poses a concern for safety. I've noticed from my own experience living here for over three years, lots of people from downstairs restaurants and bars, etc. have come to loiter around the area, often sitting on the stairs directly outside my flat, which can be quite dangerous and it poses a risk for my security personally. We have had a few incidents with the police as well where members of the public have come into the accommodation and the flats. Of course, I can't say that from certain restaurants, etc. But the loud music, etc. does host groups of people, other customers, etc. So I just wanted to raise that point in terms of the security, directly above the flats. And of course, the loud music as well. There has been the Hamlet bar, there's SW16 opposite, which can also pose risks of loud music and disruption. Adding one more to that list is going to be difficult in terms of our experience in Gordland's mentions and I'm sure Stonehill mentions as well. Thank you, Pooja. Thanks for coming on. Sorry for that slight technicality that we have to adhere to. So I believe that's all residents that have spoken who are in attendance. The committee are at this stage able to ask any of the interested parties any questions on anything they've heard, but it has to be linked. It has to be linked in with the representations that have been made and what you've just heard. Can I just ask you to lower your hand because I think that's a legacy hand from earlier. Unless there was another point you want to come in, but you can't address again at this stage. Council to Silva. Thank you, Chair. I just wanted to ask the residents with their representations. A lot of them were based on the original application, which was the hours were a lot later. The, sorry, the licensee has now altered those hours from 11 to 11. Do residents still feel that that is an unacceptable time for music? I'm not sure we can ask that at this stage because I think it's been quite detailed in the pack that a lot of the objections still stand and that's why they're still in here. So I won't throw that open to the interested parties if that's okay, Serena, because I think that's why they're still in the pack because they still object to the... I don't think they're satisfied by what's then came back. Thank you. Adrian, did you have anything at this stage? Okay. Well, it's at that moment of the agenda in this proceeding then where the subcommittee may recall the applicant, Mr. Harris, to address any matters arising. Do Adrian or Serena have anything on this? I would have a question to the applicant. To Mr. Harris? Yep. This is the time. Yeah, okay. It's just about this December the 20th event. There doesn't seem to have been a Thames for that date. Have you any knowledge of such an event taking place? I mean, you know, one of the residents complained of the noise at that event, but there's no evidence that any such event took place. I'd have to go back and check the calendar. Apologies, the 20th of December seems like a mile away. I mean, I'm happy to hear that staff on the day were able to kind of attend in a polite manner if there were any concerns. But at the current stage, the date is, sorry, just the 20th of December, so I'd need to go back and check on that. Okay, thank you. I mean, I suppose given what you've heard from residents' concerns, I suppose I'd like to hear a bit more about your crowd dispersal operation and because I'm not sure if I've heard anything or read anything that would lean, that's, yeah, and so I suppose I'd just like to hear a bit more from you and what your plans are in managing people leaving and just overall crowd dispersal. Yeah, I think what's been addressed by represents so far has been a bit of a mix of, I'm just one in the line of various different bars, restaurants, whatever other businesses decide to call themselves. I think the word nightclub gets thrown around a lot, which I'm not a nightclub. I don't know any nightclub that has tables and chairs and sells food. My dispersal unit is that all staff are trained to ensure that when people, well, before we close, we stop selling alcohol normally between half an hour just to allow for people to start to filter themselves out because everybody leaving at one time can sometimes cause an issue. When we do have SIA security, we ensure that we have enough to make sure that one can stay in the building and one can actually push customers and patrons down the road so they don't loiter. There have been occasions where I've been told that we've had issues or I've had noise complaints come back from lights and scene on days that we've not been open, which sometimes does prove that not all the time the noise is coming from me. Unfortunately, I do have Hamlet which has a function room three or four doors down so they have events there and there was an existing business before which is now a new business, Perfect Blend that used to have events all the time. So sometimes it's not me but my dispersal unit is always that we get customers out and further down the road as much as possible. Both, if I'm one or another manager is one, we do check the surrounding roads because we do understand that people will leave the venue, hit around the corner and sometimes loiter so we do make sure that security do go around neighbouring roads as well just to make sure that people aren't sitting around or hanging around cars and that we can get them out of the area as quickly as possible. Thank you. Serena, did you want to jump in? Yeah, it was just to say there is a 10s for the 21st of December. It could just be an oversight on what date it actually happened. My question to the applicant was why would you need to say no open vessels of liquid entering if you're selling alcohol? You don't want people to be bringing their own? So that wasn't put in by me, that was put in by licensing. Okay, perfect. But I'm more than happy to have whether it's be closed or open. To be fair, we don't allow for closed or open outside of any licensing points putting in the license. I don't allow for it, it doesn't make sense. I don't make money or alcohol that people bring in themselves, whether it's open or closed. So yeah, I don't allow for it. Okay, can I ask, when can I ask something from the licensing officers? Is that now or? I mean, we're going to go to deliberation after we finish this kind of round, but we can ask another question of officers if needs be, but let's stick to just final questions. for the applicant. But you've got to remember as well, licensing officers haven't put in a representation in, so therefore they won't be presenting to you as such. Okay. Unless there was any other questions at this stage. I mean, the only other thing, I suppose it comes back, the matter arising, that that is the outstanding matter, is being satisfied about the soundproofing. And I'm not, and I just think now is your opportunity, Mr. Harris, I think to, you know, come back to us, I think, again, with what you've heard around the issues around noise, you've answered around crowd dispersal. But, you know, you said there's a picture of the sound limiter, but I think it would, yeah, what, what else can you tell us about sound management and sound pollution, basically? Like I mentioned, other than the, what's been addressed in this, the resident coming in on the December date, I've had no issues brought to me towards, from licensing, where prior to me having this installed, when I had that conversation with Matthew, I believe his name was. So I've had no, no issues from licensing coming down to noise dispersal. I've had no, I'm very much within the business. As much as people may say that they've never heard of me before, I pretty much ran that business myself, and have been within the vicinity for the time that we've been trading for. I have had one or two people come in and say, well, what's happening in regards to like the business, and how does the business run? And I have had conversations with a few of the neighbours a regarding sound. I'm more than happy, which I think was mentioned by one of the representatives, who's brought a concern to have a decibel meter reading put in the conditions. If that's something that I've had in various other businesses before, if that's a concern that would make some of the patrons happy. I've done everything in my power to reduce the noise, which I believe has now been shown, due to the fact that I've had no noise complaints come in my direction, or been brought to the licensing. So I mean, I'm more than happy to continue to work with the neighbouring neighbours to do what we can to reduce noise inside and outside the venue. So just a clarification on that though, but if you, if there's been a couple of tens for this licenses, was it only on the 21st of December, or there was a couple over December, was there? Yeah. So I've had a few, I think I had some in November and a few, I think I might have had one or two in December. I mean, it's difficult to pinpoint because we don't know when the limiter was put in to know if that's then took an effect, but I suppose we should also consider that, I mean, have you had any tens operational like this in January? As in this January? No. So it's probably important to say as well, as to the point earlier about Christmas and people being away and maybe people not hearing all that kind of sound as much or something during those tens operations. Is that possible? I don't, I wouldn't consider that possible. I've had 10 applications put through, so I think 10 applications is enough applications for someone to maybe have a concern. And those 10 applications, I'm very sure I would like to say that more of them were in November than actually were in December. I may be wrong, but just considering I know an incident that happened in December within the venue, there was a certain time that we weren't operating for due to some wiring issues. OK, team, unless there's any other comments or questions, I think we'll probably move this to deliberation. OK, thank you. So hold tight, everybody. Commune, get ready. You'll be up shortly. So that this can take anything between, you know, 30 minutes, 60 minutes. So please make yourselves comfortable. Don't log off and we shall see you shortly. Hello, this is Jacqueline from Democratic Services, just to let you know that the committee is coming back into the room now. Hi, everyone. Thank you for being with us. Just waiting to see if everybody else, all the team here. Yep, Adrian, Serena. Yes, Chair. Sorry, Ian, could you just pop yourself on mute there because I think I'm picking up. Thank you. Apologies for that. Mr Harris, you're here. Great. Brilliant. OK, so I will read out the, I was going to say the result like it was that X Factor, but the determination from the licensing committee. So the licensing subcommittee having carefully, and I mean carefully, considered all of the material relating to this application and having heard from the applicant and interested parties have determined to grant the application with the agreed conditions with the licensing authority and with the reduced hours and licensable activities as stated at paragraph 1.5 of the report pack, page 53. In addition, members impose the following conditions on the premises license. The license does not come into effect until confirmation has been received relating to the installation of the sound limiter at a level to the satisfaction of the council's public protection team in consideration of the steps to promote the licensing objectives. The following agreed conditions are amended as follows. Condition 14, the premises shall operate a zero tolerance tolerance policy. It was a typo of police to the supply and use of drugs. Condition 19, all tables and chairs within the premises to remain in situ at all times, but can be changed, altered and moved around as and when required for seating. Condition 26, the premises shall implement a dispersal policy policy from 22, 300 hours as opposed to previously 2300 hours to ensure all patrons leave the premises and vicinity quietly so as to avoid noise to neighbouring residents. I believe you will be notified of this decision officially within five days and there can be an appeal on any decision made, but Mr. Harris, thank you very much for waiting with us this afternoon and wish you good evening. I appreciate it. Thank you very much. Thank you also to the residents. You may also stay for the rest of the meeting, but at this point we will be moving on to item our last hearing of the of today's licensing subcommittee, which will be for commune studios. Now just bear with me one moment, please, while I adapt my speakers list. Here we are. So, okay. Justin, I believe you are introducing, have I got it right on the third one? I've got it right on the third one. Thank you. Indeed you have chair. Go for it, Mr. Atkinson. Thank you. Good afternoon all. Once again, my name is Justin Atkinson. I'm a licensing officer and I'm the case officer for this application. This application was submitted from commune studios limited as a new premises license under section 17 under the licensing act 2003 at Arch 657 Portslade Road, London SW8 3DH. The application was seeking the following last activities. The sale of alcohol for consumption on off the premises between Thursday from 6pm to 11pm, Friday from 6pm to 6 in the morning and Saturday from 12pm to 7 in the morning and then from Sunday from 8 in the morning till 11pm at night. We recorded music. The request was for Friday from 11pm to 6 in the morning and Saturday from 11pm to 7 in the morning and then for the opening hours they were seeking from Thursday 8, sorry 6pm to 11pm, Friday from 6pm to 6 in the morning and then Saturday from 12pm to 7 in the morning and then Sunday from 8 in the morning till 11pm at night. During the 28 day consultation period nine representations were received for this application. Four representations were in favour for the application and four from interested parties were against the application and one for the licensing authority in its capacity as responsible authority was against the grant of the application. The last date for making representations was the 21st of November 2024. The full report which contains the application plans and supplementary documentation can be found under the item 4C pages 159 to 309 in the public report. In summary the following documents were supplied on behalf of the application. Annex B page 175 proposed conditions for discussion. Annex C page 179 Portslade Road red line plan. Annex D page 181 progress update on Arch 657 Portslade Road and actions taken. Annex E page 185 reasoning behind late closing Friday and Saturday nights at community studios. Annex F page 189 community studios deferral policy September draft 2024. Annex G page 191 premises risk assessment. Annex H page 201 staff training handbook. Annex I page 227 noise breakout monitoring plan. Annex J which was confidential for committee only. Annex K page 285 that was a screenshot for security. Annex L page 287 conditions agreed with public protection. The representations in favour can be found under Annex M on page 291 to 295 in the report. The representations against the application can be found on page 297 to 303 Annex N. And the representation on behalf of the license authority can be found on page 305 Annex O. Subsequently the applicant submitted additional documentation which they may refer to during this hearing. This includes a video that may want to be shown to be shown to the committee and those in attendance. Following continued discussions with our environmental health noise team and the police. The applicant provided updated updated conditions which have been circulated to all. The applicant has also agreed to reduce the last activity hours for the following last activities. These are as follows. The sale of alcohol for consumption on and off the premises. Thursday from 6pm to 11pm. Friday from 6pm to 3am which is a reduction of three hours. And then from Saturday from 12pm to 3am which is another reduction of four hours. And on Sunday no change from 8am to 11pm. And for recorded music Friday from 11pm to 3am again a reduction of three hours on a Friday night. And on Saturday from 11pm to 3am which is a reduction of four hours on a Saturday night. And with the opening hours for Thursday from 6pm to 11pm. Friday from 6pm to 3.20am. And Saturday from 12pm to 3.20am. And then Sunday from 8am to 11pm and no change. The premises have been operating under several temporary event notices since October 11th, 2024. All submitted by the same applicant. Those who have confirmed their attendance for this application today are Jonathan Smith, Legal Representative. Luca Marshall, Applicant, Business Owner of Community Studios. Jayesh Dasani, Business Owner of Community Studios. Ian Gutteridge-Wells, KD Security who can assist on any SIA security matters. And Reece Rose, Operations Director of Community Studios. On behalf of the licensing authority presenting their representation is Paul Richards. Out of the eight other representations out of the eight other representations received I've yet to receive confirmation of their attendance. Having said that, looking at the attendance so far I can confirm they have there are some residents in attendance today at this hearing. If you have any questions please feel free to ask. Thanks Justin. I thank you everyone for attending bear with sorry there was a notice that just went at five minutes left in this meeting. I can assure you that is not the case and probably wishful thinking so ignore if you see a little flash up of time left in the meeting was a committee was the any questions at this stage for Justin. No, none. Just before we move on I just want to quickly raise the matters of rising with Jacqueline. Jacqueline, one of the previous residents shared in the chat about the meetings recording link being able to be shared. I just wondered if you could just contact that resident please just to answer that. Just no immediate rush now but just noted to answer them. I will chair. Thank you. OK, so I believe Jonathan we're going to come on to yourself next Mr Smith. You'll be speaking on behalf of you know we've got the full team here with us but you've got up to five minutes to address the committee thank you. Oh sorry so you've been waiting so long you're still on mute my apologies. I've been doing this for so many years I forgot just before my clock starts Councillor Robson if you don't mind could I just confirm that I do get the chance to respond to any issues that are raised by licensing or residents who are here at the end. I think I do don't I? And a number seven yes we come under that for kind of any matters arise and we get to address the sense yeah. And just for one point of clarification Hannah who you can see here actually wrote a letter in in support and she's come along to speak in support as opposed to a resident who's against the application so. Yeah I mean it's interested parties either way or for yeah it's not necessarily one thing or the other. Great I will start then thank you very much and thanks for your time councillors. The application and thank you very much Justin you've outlined all the hours and conditions which is very helpful stops me having to do it. So you'll notice councillors that we are not applying all week for a premises license here there's no reference at all to anything happening on a Monday through to Wednesday. You'll have seen in the application this proposal that for 70% of the usage of this event space will actually be for various cultural community artistic events and 30% for activities that would be in the evening on a Friday and Saturday where music would be involved and a license would be required. So some examples today to things that have happened we've had wellness days, birthday parties, photo shoots, DJ classes, Club Soft which Hannah can speak about an alcohol free event and Luca will speak more to you as well at the end. I'm going to assume councillors that you've read all of the documents and you'll take them as read unless you ask me questions about them. Now of course the elephant in the room here is you refused this application on the 25th of September and Councillor Robson and Councillor Gardner you sat on that hearing so what's different? Well you mentioned in the previous hearing the minutes that the conditions were not robust enough. Well I've been involved in those conditions I've been speaking to the environmental health and the police despite the fact neither actually put a representation in and you'll see we've added in conditions in agreement with the police about minimum doorstep and in particular about an ID scan system. Those conditions have been referred to already there have been no objections out on the basis of those conditions. We've also beefed up the children's condition that you can see earlier on councillors because I felt that was too lax so we beefed them up. If you still don't think they're robust enough please ask me about them while we're at the hearing councillors. We then and most importantly we have issued a total of 38 temporary event notices, sorry 23 of those have gone to three, four, five, six or seven o'clock in the morning councillors. 17 of those are in your report already but there have been six more that have been issued and held in January so they are not there. The report only goes to the end of December. We've been lucky here because we've had the end of December when they reset and then you start January again. We also had an arch space that was already there for us, we'd already spent £40,000 on the insulation, we can reach 150 people and we didn't have to have a gap in there because we don't trade a week. There has been a greater intensity of temporary event notices than we would like because that these guys were spent somewhere in the region of £50,000 on the project. They have a break clause when the whole project comes to an end in the middle of March if we don't get our licence and they did need to monetise and try and get some of their money back. It's a commercial thing councillors. We've been operating those temporary event notes of course without any conditions, we can operate them without conditions. There's been no objection from police or environmental health to any of those temporary event notices take place and they must by law object if their concerns and think the licensing objects will be undermined. We've invited the councillors, sorry we've invited police and EHO along and council licensing team to come and look at them while we've been undertaking those terms and they have not, nobody's actually come down and offered to have a look at it. And the operation is there now councillors, it's happening, you've got pictures of the railway arch, it's 150 capacity, we've asked people down, evening is critical to our trade so that we can support the daytime trade. The evening's entertainment is music, live music, it can be recorded music as well. There is no advertising outside here, you do not have any signage, this is not somewhere you just pass councillors. Dealing with the concerns you had last time, Sundays was raised, councillors, we're prepared to change the alcohol hours to 10am but would ask it still remains open at 8. There were concerns about the service road, that has lighting in it, it acts as a sterile area between the Wandsworth Road entrance and the venue itself, we have a member of the door team halfway down at dispersal. You'll notice we've got no business representation this time from Mrs Karn who put a representation in last time but we actually have a letter of support from another motor auto company councillors and Arch Co who are a well-known landlord, if we were causing trouble and there was any sort of damage being caused then we would be made to leave. Parking councillors, you raised part of parking issue, Portslade Road on Heathbrook Flats, we did a survey one night on Friday the 17th of January and not a single person came by car. I'm going to just pass over to Luca quickly who would like to say 30 seconds and then I'll finish off councillors. And I just want to jump in as well and say look I appreciate you kind of raising about some of those kind of previous issues but we are approaching this as a completely new application, this is not something that we are viewing at or we were we've sat on that previous panel. The way we see it this is a new application and it will be judged on that. I do appreciate that councillor, if I hadn't even mentioned it it would have been a bit weird wouldn't it? So I'm going to ask Luca just to jump in for 30 seconds or so absolutely four and a half minutes and then I will finish up on public nuisance issues councillors before your questions. Luca would you just like to say a few words from the heart about your project here? Well thank you Jonathan for giving me the opportunity to speak. As someone who grew up down the road from this premises in West Norwood and now calls Brixton home and my family also based in the area this project means a hell of a lot to me. I've been an aspiring entrepreneur since I was very very young particularly in the areas of art technology and now music. I've poured everything into this project whilst balancing a full-time job or part-time job as a full stack web developer and designer because I truly believe in what I'm trying to create here. It's a space where both young and established artists can perform, where the LGBT plus community have found a safe haven for expression and where photographers and filmmakers are building their portfolios. While our weekend music events help keep the light help keep the lights on they're far more than that. They're gatherings that bring people together through sound creating those rare moments of genuine connection. We work with local suppliers and hire our staff from the surrounding area keeping the positive impact within our community. In a time where the world feels increasingly divided and harder to navigate spaces that foster community and understanding are vital. We've had to turn away so many incredible events due to our limited license which just shows how much South London needs cultural venues like this especially when they're disappearing at an unprecedented rate across the UK. As you can probably tell this isn't just a business to me it's about building something that genuinely matters for the neighbourhood I call home. Thank you for your consideration. If you bear with me for 40 more seconds just on the survey we did so I know that you were concerned Councillor Robson about the the width of the road under the tunnel. Um it does it does get narrower there but you can still park up and have two cars parking sorry two cars passing we found that 30 percent of people coming came by taxi on that survey we did if we had 120 which may be an average audience for us you'd be looking at about 36 leaving in a taxi say three to a taxi you're looking at 12 at taxi just to give you some sort of indication and finally on the news side of things you've got the noise management plan dispersal policy there I'm not going to go through those we have been undertaking or Rhys has been undertaking significant noise monitoring over the last four months October November December and January and you've got the results in your papers from October through to December we've had no complaints raised to environmental health or licensing and I think Paul Richards will confirm that when he puts his representation and there'd be no complaints about what we've been doing we've been operating under the conditions you've got there with no complaints and um some of the residents who've objected they actually put their objections in up to the 20th of November and don't mention any issues despite the fact we've been trading for seven or eight weeks by then under these temporary event notices so um concerns over safety um we do have the member doorstep halfway down as I said we can have up to two on the gate as well councillors their dispersal as you know last time people are allowed to wait in the venue till their cab arrives and then the lights start to come up at three o'clock last orders at 2.45 um I will like to address your policy when Paul Taylor's uh spoken um councillors but very many thank you many thanks for listening and I'm sorry that was so quick because um you have to speak quickly in five minutes but you've already given me about eight so thank you I have definitely wasn't 44 seconds but that's fine Mr Smith um thank you for that um and I'm going to quickly swing over to the committee I'm sure there's plenty of questions um so it might have only been a five minutes introduction but I'm sure there's going to be more questions to flash in at the hour here was that you indicating straight away Adrian yep was well with all that vast amount of paperwork you sent us to read in revenge I'm going to ask you several questions um yeah the first one was um my first question was going to be are you stuck with your eight o'clock on a Sunday morning and the first thing you said was you would consider 10 o'clock you said is that right that's correct sir right okay moving on moving on but that that's just for an alcohol license but still being open eight that's open at eight alcohol ten sir yeah yeah yeah okay now the road between I mean you've got your uh two people standing at the exit and you've got one security person inside uh can you amplify a bit the patrolling between because the one concern that we had we have is the long road with people walking up and down and some of the businesses are still concerned uh for their security so could you amplify a bit how you are protecting that road for the whole time including lighting and so on depends how many numbers we've got in so typically we'd have two mans a door staff that's the minimum we've got to have with the si security if we've got a busier night we'll have up to three we usually have two on the gate checking tickets um we do bag searches we also actually have a metal detection wand and then we are going to be if you're minded to grant the application going to be using the scan net or id scan system once we're nearing uh capacity we would have one of the door staff would remain on the gate and the other would then go into the venue councillors that might be two going into the venues if we're busier towards the end of the night as i mentioned 2 45 i'm talking about fridays and saturdays councils because these are going to be the nights which will um exercise your mind the most at 2 45 last orders will be uh called and the member of one member of the door team or two if they're in there would then leave stand halfway down so it's about 50 meters 60 meters down the service road it is lit i should say that council of garden they would wait down there and the other one would go to the gate if we had three on so you'd have two on the gate which is where people are leaving onto wandsworth road we do have a resident there and then we have another um one who's actually halfway down right okay that which leads me to my next one because that's talking about at dispersal you'll be guarding that area i'm more concerned with during the whole length of the evening whether you've got anybody monitoring the path because that's when the business people there are concerned that random people wandering up and down security issues and all that i don't think you say anywhere that you've got people actually monitoring the road during the hours as opposed to at dispersal we'd have that so if you had two doors that one that would be the minimum we'd have you'd have one inside the venue typically but they would also wander outside and do a patrol down towards the gate as well but please bear in mind the person on the gate at that point councillor garden you've got most if not all people already in the venue they are stood there and they've got a clear line of sight down that corridor to the to the workshops and we do have a supplemental item which is actually checkers autos which is the car company which is right next door to us councillor garden they're the closest business to us they actually write in to say we were worried about this because we've got cars of value that are there but the benefit is actually councillors you've got more eyes there because you've got security if we're not there you've got a black uh corridor with no security so if you think about it councillors in many ways there's better eyes better lighting better surveillance okay good enough moving on moving on may i move on either way we get right the handbook and this is to do with noise uh in your handbook you talk about if sorry uh councillor robson did you want to interrupt me it's fine i was just going to say serena was there anything did you want to come in on any of those other kind of previous points crowd dispersal at this point no okay cool thank you right shall i get to the end and then she can have her go yeah i was just making sure that we're all wrapped in absolutely yes the handbook talks about all sorts of things none of which i will mention except it does talk about 80 decibels bit of a noise 85 decibels wear ear plugs uh so that gives us an indication of what is noisy if we then look at one of the documents you sent us which i really think it was um i don't know why you sent us this document with 30 odd pages of pictures of meters that one yes sir i wondered i did wonder that you think well if i send enough pages they won't bother to read it but that's a totally unfair thing to say so i won't say it but it does say on if i can find it now on page 100 page 65 um on the 11th of february at 7 43 99 decibels recorded on page 67 on the 11th of february at 24 that midnight presumably 101 decibels uh and there was another one bit earlier page 44 100 decibels now these are noise levels you are recording outside on p3 um and it raises whole issues about noise so do you want to say something about that i might i'll let reese because reese has got his hand up but let me just answer why i sent you all of those characters because i know there was a lot of questions last time about how we were going to do the noise reading to make sure that there was no music was being disturbed in people so the two monitoring points i'm sure you can see from the noise management plan are um the block of flats uh which are on port slade road councillors which is that i think they're called heath heathbrook park flats and then um what so reese is here and he'll answer this this for you in a moment reese will take those measurements to make sure you can't hear any any music he does it at the arch and then take steps back i think 15 or 20 meters back uh reese then walks around the corner into the service road up the service road and then make sure he can't hear anything from the smoking area and the music also from the venue and then carries out another reading and then goes into the venue itself i thought it was important that you had evidence that we've been doing those councils i mean you asked obviously on the previous case what evidence have you got about noise monetary etc it was also important though that we sent those to owners your environmental health officer as well so he could see the readings because he has declined an invitation we must have come around and see what's going on and set the noise suppression system so i i was trying to be um i was trying to be as as as open and transparent as i could councillor gardeners as opposed to feeling cynically that i was trying to bombard you with documents but i'm going to ask reese to um just answer the question for you about the internal decibels i think is your question well except they were they were p3 was that the internal or external i'll i'll let reese answer this bit because he's the guy's guy if that's all right reese sorry my microphone is still muted am i here yes brilliant uh so councillor garden just just for reference in the noise management plan p3 is the internal reference it's not five meters from the speakers to evidence that the noise that we are making is significantly being reduced by um our noise management system in terms of like when it's loud inside it's not loud outside so that's that's a little bit of confusion there and then the section of the handbook that you're addressing is above 85 db that's the noise at work act that's that's instructional for the staff to know when they are legally required to wear earplugs um so that's it is loud inside the music venue it's accepted that it's that it does get loud inside the music venue part of what we've been doing has allowed us to say you need to wear a mute earplugs whenever we're doing the music event and i don't think i need to say anything else unless you've got any more questions okay well we we note that you'll probably discuss that outside i think my last one is about the kd security report and i see mr kd is there um lighting i couldn't tell whether your uh mitigations are things that are there or should be there like you talk about on the path between you talk about floodlights i didn't know whether you were saying we've inspected it and there are floodlights or we've inspected it and there should be floodlights and that applied to various things in your your table of recommendations whether they were actually there or whether they should be there i'll answer it councillor and then i think ian will probably chip in as well my understanding is that's the site survey and those are the actual those floodlets those those upward floodlights are actually the the items that are already there councillor i will let ian confirm that you're mute again yes good afternoon sorry apologies for that right so um when i first went to the venue when we were taking the contract on um i did my sort of standard site survey risk assessments things like that and part of that was obviously taking into consideration the fact that it potentially could be dark down there and obviously we're worried about trip hazards for not only our staff but obviously patrons of the venue as well and that was just part of my recommendations i've visited the site several times since then and it is suitably well lit oh it is good enough my very final question then and then i hand over what you say to go in you have to book tickets in advance which sounds a good security measure what's the stop a long queue snaking all the way down the road with everybody putting their tickets on their mobile as they stand in the queue so tickets are usually booked in advance you can actually if you come along with a friend you could actually even book them there and take a ticket on the door the um the beauty about this venue is because it's not advertised you don't know it's their councillors you would only go there if you like for a specialist music night or a private event which you've been invited or word of mouth because your friend's going so those are the instances we have people arriving i think it's already there in um in the summary from reese over a period of roughly two hours we have a member of the door team that you have your ticket they check it you're wandered down you go in and then you are actually then your ticket is actually then finally checked and scanned actually councillors at the door to the archway which is then well away from wandsworth road that's about 110 meters so that's actually where the ticket scans take place sir okay thank you i hear all that no further questions you sure counts the god i mean just before i jump over to you on that serena i mean i don't think that answers it fully you know that whilst the queue may still happen on the road it can still be a word of event ticket thing but if you there's nothing stopping like it's very hard to get people to buy tickets in advance so you know and so i suppose what there's nothing stopping people from lining up the queue and doing it there and then i suppose is that even if they're going specifically for that event i get that it's not advertised here there and everywhere but you know if it's worth going to people are going to know about it but there's nothing to stop them doing that i don't know i i have to say i haven't stood on that that entrance 11 or 12 so i don't know whether reese or uh or ian or luca cannot can answer that as to whether you ever get a queue or how quickly people are showing in presumably you can get them in the gate fairly quickly do you want to go for it reese i think you're muted yes sorry i was just about to oh we've lost sound a few all together reese sorry i don't know what's happened am i that's better i've got two mute buttons one physical and one on the screen it's confusing me sorry um basically i've been on the door for most of the events that we've done and i have not really ever seen a situation where where everybody has arrived all at once at any of the events there is no way that we can guarantee that that would never happen but the processing speed of the security team at the front door uh getting people ready and sending them on up to the actual ticket check has been sufficient to successfully run all of the events that we have done thus far with i think like 28 of them at night time over since since we started now so for example say sorry serena then we'll hand over to you i rock up at the gates and i say oh i'm here for madonna you know and then you check oh it's madonna night okay up we come and so that's kind of how they get through they have to confirm what the event is by the by the gate to be able to access further up that's correct and after they've done that it's an id check um a wand uh uh uh and it's no guest list at the front it's actually on the door yeah okay that's up at the up at the arch yeah cool but the security point is at the gate sir and then the ticket yeah yeah yeah it was just more that to confirm they know what the event is to be able to go up you know type thing serena over to you i don't think they just confirm the event they have to show their ticket at the gate to go in um from what i understand um just on that queuing system follow one question um where are you doing the security checks like bag checks and etc is it at the beginning or is it near the arch so that that council is there silver is at the gate because that's where the two security are normally earlier on in the evening so you'll have two security honors uh people are coming in and we'll probably see an example of that in the video shortly which we've already seen um sorry that was just a worry also about the queuing on onesworth road if people are having bags checked and there's it it will just make a queue um the other question i had is um if it's an event space and people are booking to use the space it doesn't necessarily mean there will always be an event on a friday and a saturday if you don't have a booking it's not open correct i've done it i've done it now that's correct if you actually have a look at some of the temporary event notices listed in the shed we don't do every friday and saturday on those uh on those temporary event notices um i'm probably going to ask the guys perhaps luca or reese luca's got his hand up just to come back about um the queuing if we ever have a queue and which way we go if we if we we're fortunate enough to be busy enough that we we had a queue but um look you may want to say something yeah i would also re-emphasize what we said i've been there for basically every event and we've never had a situation where there's been a build-up of people at the gate um but if that was to happen they would we would uh direct people to curve round to the right underneath the bridge on onesworth road so they wouldn't be going to the left towards where the residentials are um and that's if you're facing the ones worth road looking uh you're at the gate um but yeah it hasn't been an issue yet also yeah i mean it's worth remembering we're only 150 capacity at max so it's very rare that we have enough people where it's uh it's unhandable i mean depending on the time though isn't it because some people aren't early birds there's usually a kind of time when people appear so do you usually have a busy period of people arriving and filters out so maybe you've just not found your time for that yet uh for the for the 3am to 6am later finished ones we definitely get kind of some people coming earlier and some people coming a bit later uh and it kind of staggers throughout so yeah that's quite nice for the dispersal as well it means that we don't have a massive build-up of people at the end like you have some people who've come a little bit earlier and they're a bit fed up by the time the later arrivals come so we never really end up with it actually being that full just to confirm in terms of the actual searching process bag searching wandering that that is all done councils inside the gate that is not done outside on ones with road that said people are inside the gate at that point yeah it's a very narrow pavement you know serena did you have a bit more no that's all i've got at the moment okay i've got quite a few um so just to pick up on that point of once with road and maybe you look at what you just said about people queuing under the bridge if you recall mr smith uh from your details of the minutes and the actions councillor har actually raised about the issue of lighting around under the bridge and that kind of area now i suppose that's beyond your control or your remit a little bit you know but i suppose but the issue was a issues around violence against women and girls basically and women's safety just would like to hear a little bit more i mean i note on page 207 you'll stop a trench for ask for angela but it doesn't explicitly state in there about women's it kind of generalizes everybody which is good but then i've just heard you say luca about lgbt inclusive so i just wondered if you're familiar with ask for clive and so i suppose i'd like to hear a little bit more on women's safety in general and quality safety especially with hate crime being up in clapham um i'll let the guys oh go on so i'll let the guys answer the question but just in terms of if there was a queue going underneath the bridge obviously we would have security there to security if it's busy so we would actually have two door staff with them as well council but i'll perhaps i'll ask the guys to answer the question about yes vulnerability sir yeah i mean i guess it's worth just mentioning that we have yeah a lot of the events that a lot of the temporary events we have done uh have been lgbt focused queer friend focused events and we've actually had quite a large can you give an example um of the so i mean a lot of them are a house and electronic music uh and they're different promoters a lot of them are coming from dalston and hackney uh there's there's the train line that comes obviously directly to ones with road so we get quite a lot of people coming from there we actually established ourselves as being i mean i would expect for them for it to come from from them than me but we i've heard time and time again we're one of the few places that people genuinely feel safe and uh genuinely want to return to um and i think that's that part of that comes from just the attitude of the security that we have um so that comes from things like our dispersal we're genuinely like reese will will attest to this that we we asked literally as many people as we can how they're getting home uh for pictford to see where where their uber is before they go outside of the gate just so that they're not just going on onto the open road um it's something we i think we've demonstrated through a lot of these little things uh that that we're trying very hard to protect uh protect people and obviously i would also go as far as to say that the queer community are a lot more sensitive than potentially on other nights and um so to have got that kind of level of support from the queer community i think is in a testament to to the attitude of our security and and and uh our attitude towards well-being and safety in general so i think reese was waving first but i think ian was also but if it makes sense to go you first reese hi there just um just quick quickly covering that i mean luca touched on it basically as part of the dispersal policy we we do engage with as many people as possible both on the way in and the way out um for welfare too so we're checking for sobriety and how they're doing as they arrive and just talking to them so that you already build some sort of a rapport between the security team and the customers that are arriving throughout the event we will make sure that everybody is in in a safe space in the venue we check on people's general welfare around the venue ensure that there are no people slumped in corners no people that look like they're in a bad place from the amount of alcohol or they're drunk or anything like that and as they're leaving just try and make sure that there are not people leaving in suspect couples like no nobody that can't stand up leaving with somebody you can things like that that's all very much covered with the in the way that we deal with it and hi guys how are you doing are you leaving do you know where to drop your pin on your taxi are you not getting a taxi do you know where you're going for your bus just talking to them engaging with them making sure that they they they they they give me confidence and give the security team confidence that we know they're going to go on together either in a group or safely or they've got a plan basically uh and i genuinely i've worked in licensing since 2002 or something like that as as as as as and and and my main training has come from universities where the duty of care is very very very very important and very believed in and i have done my very best to bring that out of the universities into every space that i have managed since then so that i genuinely believe in my duty of care i believe it's very important to make people feel safe and to look after them so that they are safe um and i i'm gonna ask for angela champion i've done the training three or four times um i've also done the hacky nights um training for um they call it they call it the domestic abuse training which which is recognizing strange behavior in couples um but and not not whilst we once we're champion champion um vulnerability for against the women and girls that that more and more the the labeling of it is is is becoming gender neutral so it's it's vulnerability against everybody and looking after everybody it's really really a heartfelt part of the way that i operate things and i think that should cover that the reason why i just say it because i don't have that specific policy on uh violence against women and girls i suppose so that's why we specifically related to that and that has been something within our licensing objectives and i think that would be quite important to the committee when considering um just quickly before i come up to you ian you mentioned because you've raised taxis um on page 190 it says about this is in with crowd dispersal about directing customers to the nearest taxi ranks and have you found a nearest taxi rank to ones with roads there aren't any but exactly but but but everybody uses uber and exactly so that's why i just thought they should be taken out or something i don't know because it's i can update that for you sorry i mean silver thought road used to have a taxi rank back in the day but it's long gone and i think so it is but then i suppose it was then just to hear a little bit more about the impact then that you think traffic might have because it's quite a nasty little bit of road that underneath the bridge there with wanted road i've witnessed a couple of accidents there myself so i suppose i've just wondered if you've considered any kind of traffic impacts here as well we we did cancer i did mention cancer robson that i i knew we'd have this question because uh having listened to the previous hearing so we tried to get an idea of how many uh ubers we could expect in an evening it's it's it's not it's not an exact science it was one evening um but to give you the idea as i said 30 of people 40 actually got the bus 30 got an uber they didn't go to a taxi rank um if you're looking at say 120 which we're quite happy with most nights you'd be looking at 36 some will get two in an uber some will get four so if you said three that would be 12 vehicle movements or 12 ubers stopping councillors to give you some context and that would be over a period of time so we're managing that by way of a 245 bar closure 320 everybody out and the whole venue closed and the door staff actually stay till 3 30 in accordance with the dispersal policy so so i would hope that over 45 minutes the the 12 cabs and that's an estimate at 120 that we might have 150 and we might have 90 in uh but that's just to give it some context we have given some thoughts as to the vehicle movement and i stress again nobody drove that night so we so any suggestion of parking from from your licensing officer or i think it was mrs carney wrote it last raised it last time on port slave road people just don't don't drive you'll know that counts as an experienced council is not going to drive to such an event on such an evening and i am very much concentrating on friday and saturdays we've obviously applied for um for thursdays and sundays but i'm very much answering it in that context councils because i'm sure that's the nights that uh that is going to exercise your mind the most i mean it could be that 12 caps arrival at once i'm sure you know it's possible it won't be but i just think it just needs to be stated that of course and that's and thank you for stating that but you know i know the overground there is wonderful but i also know people like love ubers um sorry look ian has been kind of waiting a long time but if you want to jump in that's fine i just quickly on the point of the ubers the or any taxi provider we're not biased to one yeah that's totally fine um but uber is the most prevalent and we have been in um we've i've submitted a form request for a geolocation point for the venue specifically so like uh when someone tries to request uh an uber they it would be put basically uh there's on that the far end i think it is a portland place uh there's there's one particular area that we identified which had absolutely no residential whatsoever and it's uh on the side of uh the royal mail delivery depot and it's uh still a two-way uh and we identified that as being the best uh place for attack like for taxis to come if we were to have you know 12 at one time that'd probably be the best place to handle them uh without causing any disturbance but we could also review that as we could we could change the point to somewhere else but the point being is that it's something that we're you know we're going to try and uh make as good as possible thank you it's not as big it's pensbury place i think he's referring to cancer sorry apologies street parallel isn't it yeah it's the one where the uh the 24 hour sorting office is and the uh and the amazon office etc ian you've been going really patiently there sorry thank you yes it was just to go um and reinforce what reese was saying about the uh sort of vulnerability side of things so as well as the ops team manager i'm also responsible for all of that in-house training i've got the training packages for the welfare and vulnerability engagement the way of training and i do that with all of our staff obviously as well as this client we've got some other very big clients um in clapham i tend to have meetings and we're very very much on top of making sure that all of our staff are checking people on the way out particularly anyone who's drunk vulnerable maybe being propped up by someone that they're leaving with just to make sure that we're happy they're leaving with someone they know and trust rather than going on to be a victim of something quite unpleasant thank you um cool just a couple of more and i know you mentioned there uh jonathan sorry mr smith um i don't think we have been focused on summer friday and saturday and i just think i know it's not necessarily it will inform uh the decision but i just think some examples of the programming would be really useful for the community actually not just during i mean i know it's quite clear you know during weekdays this piece will primarily function etc etc but it'd be good to hear what what's happening on sunday so i'll give you some ideas i think i've already mentioned we've had a wellness day we've had birthday parties we've had quite a lot of photo shoots and people use it as a photo shoot perhaps luca can expand on that we've had people on a sunday morning i don't know i'll come back come back to what day that was we've had dj classes i know that hannah's here to say some words as to what she did but we've had a lot of inquiries the difficulty we've had at the moment council is because we have this break clause we have to be out at the end of march if we don't have a license council we do have people who are raising could i could i run a regular yoga class uh wellness class we haven't been able to book them in because we say well i'm afraid we can do it for six weeks or so but after that there may not be any more so but i'm going to ask luca because i know that he has got a list of those people or details of who have made inquiries so thank you yeah uh i don't have the list in front of me and um yeah yeah sure i mean i think there will be some there would be some music events i imagine on the sunday so i don't want to like close that off um but i we also have had we're on some platforms like tag venue um and then you scanner which uh which actually well been the primary point of contact for any kind of inquiries that are from the local community like in terms of people finding stuff close to them they go to these kind of dedicated marketplace platforms for finding venues um and yeah we've been getting offers from everything from funeral wakes um we have one wedding wedding reception in the in the calendar i'm not sure if that's on a sunday um well obviously the music events uh birthday birthday events of various different kind we had a three-year-old's birthday party with a bouncy castle that we blew up inside which was nice um there's it's various different uh yeah various different things like that um i think we did have any more extended lists uh that i submitted to or sent to jonathan i don't have it on hand though i'll read some of them out for you look if it helps you've had a sound healer art gallery boot camp farmers market yoga fitness classes dance rehearsals funerals wakes record vinyl sale um those are the sorts of events uh on sunday some of which won't require a license necessarily of course yeah that that's just to clarify those are a mix of ones that have happened and also inquiries that we've had that we may or may not be able to do depending on the outcome thank you i mean that's helpful the reason why i say is because on page 166 we on weekends we plan to transform the open plan space into a venue for cultural events including small concerts comedy nights and exhibitions which is it says what it is but then we kind of flash forward on to one five annex e and yes this is more about the late night closing on friday saturday nights but on 186 it's very much specifically stays our expected late night demographic of electronic music lovers so i suppose it was just trying to get an understanding from between the two um okay i think i because we're going to be seeing the video under your bit is that right paul sorry i'll be myself yeah i'll be um presenting the video on behalf should we have done that to start then should we it would have been the applicant's request um so if you guys would like to see the video i'm happy to represent i'll hold the line i'm just making sure that i've kind of okay well because that's kind of what i've got next and just to say what the staff book was a really um good to see uh thank you for providing it um i know it sounds like you're um doing quite cool funky events but i must say i must noted page 211 fancy dress where appropriate was interesting to read um i think that's about it from my side again i've kind of said the as for angela kind of bit so i suppose if there is i think this would be the point to bring in i think it'd be useful to see the video if the applicants are permitted for us to screen it is that the correct way would you like us to view it now john and mr smith or cancels i wasn't going to show it because you i mean we've seen it we have seen it you've seen it so i i think it was in the possibility we obviously tried to see if you could visit the site and in case you couldn't then we were going to have a video which is therefore why we sent you the video so yeah i don't need to show it okay so if you've seen it no thank you yeah and apologies again another friday but i was unfortunately unavoidable but uh yeah if there's nothing else from the video then i'm fine with that um okay there's no other questions from committee at this stage thank you okay so we move on to uh interested parties of which we know um hannah oh justin what justin you put your hand up um i believe uh paul richards has a representation to present yeah yeah i was just making sure i knew who was here from to residents and making sure i have the page number for that or whatever um and hannah's here now so that's brilliant uh paul before all that you're up thank you for waiting patiently no well thank you share um and thank you mr smith and your team um good afternoon paul richards um acting on behalf of the responsible licensing authority um may i say the originally the representation was uh submitted by one of my colleagues um ola um who is currently away so i've stepped in uh to present this may i say during or after the consultation period i can confirm that i had a a very deep conversation with mr smith uh about the representation and may i say the application that was submitted came was submitted with a comprehensive documentation to support the application however the reason uh for the responsible licensing um representation objecting is because the type of premises which under our policy we do we regard it as a nightclub stroke non-diverse diversified alcohol-led venue now we've had a conversation mr smith and uh the ruling out of it's no longer it's not a nightclub and you heard today um the purpose and the events that has occurred uh under temporary event notices and in future if the license is granted the license is granted but as a non-diversified alcohol-led venue um within this location again our policy states that the the entrance from the public highway to the venue is uh within a local shopping center and therefore a non-diverse diversified alcohol-led venue is not appropriate as our our policy states now you heard again um there was further license conditions submitted uh outside of the consultation period with the police and the noise team who didn't submit a representation which actually supported and um actually promoted even further strengthened the licensing objectives um the conversation with mr smith um has also reduced the hours that they were seeking which the licensing authorities would welcome if the decision is to grant this application the so basically what i'm saying you heard today and i'm probably going to be a bit cheeky and and put out you heard about a lot of safety measures that the premises are putting in and welfare and and wave training by the security which again the we very much welcome and it's a it promotes the the policy as well uh it's something that i would probably ask of the the applicant as whether they would consider if the license was granted was to be um be considered as a safe haven now a safe haven is what we're looking at is is venues that are into the nighttime economy that if there's somebody who's not attending the premises but walking past and they feel vulnerable that they can enter the premises and be looked after and then be given a safe haven um i'm not sure of his name but ian said that he can provide the wave training and if this premise is granted i would consider that this would be an ideal location for it to be a safe haven which for future would be advertised as a safe haven where somebody in the area feeling vulnerable they can probably hit an app or if there's a symbol that we're looking at that they can come to the venue and and be taken care of and and uh for for what they need so basically my representation does say that we object and this solely based on the licensing policy the premises is on an industrial estate which our policy does not identify the policy where the the location is we had to put it within one of our four categories and we placed it in a local shopping parade um because it it falls within out of the scope of the policy i'm afraid that the licensing authority had to submit a representation and i think that really concludes um my my comments in relation to this application thanks paul i'll ask committee just to pause any questions at this point for paul unless you had a burning desire to jump in now but i think we can take all the interested parties together oh good one serena i'll allow you sorry just um prominent just specifically to licensing which is um you say it's a local shopping parade because is it because of the businesses that have already leased out arches there for example if other ventures similar to this particular one were in those arches already would we still class it as a shopping parade or just an industrial state or just a night time venue road um thank you councillor that was a good question um sorry i'm thinking on my feet now um i sorry i i would probably i would say yes because of the type of um premises commercial premises within the the the location um and the entrance to gain access which is at the gate is within that street which is a local local shopping center i i would believe if there were possibly more types of venues um be it bars or restaurants etc within that area it would formulate that would probably fall within our policy into the the next steps which would could be a district center as in such and and then if it grew it would fall within the town center type of area so to to asa to to say there's something i didn't probably say which was asked of me when mr smith first started i can concur that the premises has had um in excess of 30 temporary event notices um and we are not aware of any complaints that's been submitted to us uh of noise or any issues whilst they've been operating so sorry i i i omitted that at the beginning to that point though paul i think is it fair to say that these have been operating during the winter months when say windows of neighboring estates will firmly be cold now yeah and that this may have a different result in the summer months um yes chair um that's in fact correct it is the winter months sorry can i just pause paul because i've just had a notification that says that the recording stopped is it back up and running again jacqueline let's say if it is so i'm taking that as red it is sorry i just thought if you're saying i'm just going to check um just in case there's anything significant being said we might have overrun on time sorry i think it's still going i think it's still just i would like to have democratic services confirm it though please let's have a look i mean it says it started recording to the cloud yeah yes it's still online so it's still online yeah we just checked yeah it's still going okay it's just because the notifications had stopped and then it's back up and running maybe it goes up maybe it goes to the cloud after a certain point thank you yeah so sorry paul so it was just about the recording being done out of operation and i'll come back to you on that as one mr smith but out of operation in winter months and not in summer um that that is correct yes yeah it it was the winter months and it may have an effect within uh the summer months i am not a noise expert however i am aware that uh mr smith and uh and his team has agreed some conditions and probably mr smith could come back uh to state the conditions he agreed with the noise team as in a way of monitoring and sound um the side of things so okay we'll come back to that i think under when we wrap everything up before deliberations but i just want to bring in uh our two other interested parties uh which uh very even handedly we have one in favor one against and i want to take these alphabetical order and i believe it's yourself mr i'm gonna be terrible at pronouncing your surname alistan no don't don't don't try alessandra hi well no i feel like an ignorant bridge there i apologize it's a very tricky one it's so just to say that your representation uh for the second committee is on page 297 and uh you you can speak up for up to three minutes with regards to what you've written in your representation but it doesn't have to be word for word cool thank you um i mean i'm i'm i've been reading the documentation that uh you guys have prepared and about the the purpose of the space so i'm i'm supportive of the idea my small problem in an ironic sense is that my flat is pretty much on the gate that means the bedroom the main bedroom and the kids bedroom is pretty much windows they go on path that you need to take to get to the place um and i mean the events i did record a couple of nights even with the windows closed yeah so this is a conservative area so the windows are good does us gets um it does get through um because it's it's a party time yeah so i mean it's fine but um it can be problematic so i appreciate the reduction of hours because six in the morning you know where kids wake up during the night and then the noise it gets it gets pretty much a nightmare um i mean i think i even suggested in the mail i don't know if it's possible but access onto the road that is the road that everyone used to access the the the venues will be much better at least from my point of view and it will probably solve also some other issues that the business may have with the security stuff um that's it you know and then what's happening is that because it's not a service road there are no bins you know people you know it's going back and forth so you they throw stuff on the road then the morning after it can be a bit of a mess there are kids glass broken on the on the floor you know usual stuff that it is acceptable but it's there are no services for it's not high i don't know as a high traffic road for for for like walking road um so that's fundamentally it yeah so um i don't wanna go too far but the noise is there uh for the nature of the fact that you are going for having fun so it's not a church um and that's it thank you alessandro um i'll come over now to um mckinner mckinnery is that right hannah mckinnery um it's mckinnerney i'm doing i'm failing in this part of the uh hearing my apologies to you hannah uh you have and your representation is on page 291 for reference for the committee you have three minutes starting from now hi thank you for having me my name is hannah mckinnerney i'm a culture professional working in music i run an alcohol free day party called club soft which aims to be a safe space for dancing for music fans who don't drink or want to break from drinking luca from commune reach out to me and was really keen on hosting the event in the space i ran the event in november the event was supported by the arts council and the department for culture media and sport because i have a grant from them uh people of all ages came from 20 to 65 my mum and dad were there the feedback that i got was that everyone loved the space they thought it was incredibly safe well organized people told me they'd never felt so safe in a venue before they finally found an event that aligns with their faith i was really impressed with the soundproofing i stood outside the venue and i thought you could barely hear anything and i was really impressed with that and it's clear that the commune studios team have been very thoughtful at ensuring that the venue has minimal impact on the surrounding area and i've been to other events at commune and it's clear that the venue attracts a very mindful and respectful crowd of people very intentional it's not people just wandering off the street it's people that want to be there and and are very respectful um the staff and the security are very professional and helpful they've made the venue in the surrounding area feel very safe and it's clear that the owners are incredibly committed to making this a very valuable cultural assets and community space for the area which is very vital as lucas said these spaces are shutting down all the time so the fact that they're running this space successfully is a real positive uh impact on our on our city um and i really hope that i can continue running clubsoft uh monthly or bi-monthly and i look forward to working with commune studios in the future if the license is granted thank you spoke very fast so i could say everything i wanted to say very succinct thank you hannah um at this stage before we then move on to uh recall the applicant and any other matters rising was there any questions for the interested parties i mean i suppose just for you hannah what kind of problem for me there i mean um attend what would you say the average age of attendees are um for your event um for my event i'd say like 40 40 probably 35 to 40 which is quite different to most clubs where you're just surrounded by teenagers you know it's older people and i think people like myself that you know i've been going to clubs for a long time yeah i've had a lot of clubbing experience i don't want to be around drunk people shouting and screaming and falling over i want to be in a space that feels respectful where people are respectful of space i want to be in a space like that and commune studios is that space and that's why i want to continue working with them thank you for that clarification all right um anything else serena adrian adrian yeah just a little question to alessandro if i may call you alessandro um you were talking about children waking up at six and noise and so on did you pick up the fact that uh they've changed their hours and are closing by three o'clock every night i did i did how much effect does that have on you i i mean from i think that happened recently so the change true very true yes yeah so i don't think so the the last the last i think the last record last time that i woke up because the noises was around two and then four in the morning so i don't think it kicked in the um the um the reduction of hours um it definitely helped i mean again it helps uh but the noise still gets true yeah so i okay okay so thank you thanks adrian yeah okay so we're going to uh sort of recall i think so it's you mr smith if it's basically just to kind of you can address kind of any points that as kind of you've heard during the interested parties section or even from other questions from the committee and then we might have some other final questions before we then move into a deliberation thanks council so if i just deal with um perhaps paul's representation first then alessandro's if you don't mind me calling you alessandro um then i'll just deal with the the policy point as well council so paul mentioned making this venue a safe haven yes we would be more than happy to do that councils and if you felt it appropriate to add that as a condition we will be happy to do that and the door staff were actually on the gate of course they're si a trained remember council so they are actually all first aid medically trained so we'd be more than happy to do that councils i've had confirmation on instructions on paul's representation i think paul's acknowledged i think that the licensing haven't been able to class these premises as anything else because it's actually on an industrial estate so they've said so licensing have picked the closest road which seems to be the shopping parade local center and i'm not sure if paul then answered that he would classify the service road as a as a as a local center shopping parade i wasn't quite sure what his answer to that was but i'm sure you don't need reminding um a shopping parade or local center and your policy is small supermarket news agents sub post office and a pharmacy none of those are on that service yard it is predominantly made up councillors of um auto repair car centers so i don't think you could call that a shopping parade paul with the best will in the world unless you want to buy auto car repairs or some glass um so i i i take contention that and thank you for acknowledging paul can i just jump in i think it should be noted that there is a food bank down there well so that classes as a shopping parade or not but i think it's important to state that it's not just those kinds of there is a food bank as well down there is there okay there might be so i'm not too sure sorry uh in terms of an outcome i think paul's acknowledged it isn't and we would take contention it's not alcohol led then you councillors um you can have a look at the hours we don't apply for alcohol at all monday to wednesday uh the hours on sunday and thursday are 11 o'clock and we have asked licensing to come down we've asked ola to come down and have a look at it so we could actually see what's going on and there's been no visit made cancer so um we we take contention with that um the premises is on a light industrial estate you've got um a sorting office amazon center recycling center uh it's 110 meters as you'll see from the video down to the road it's some walk down to the road and i don't think you can class it as a local center shopping print it's actually unclassified if you like in your policy and something maybe you need to look at caps as in due course without me being rude um but even if you felt it was within your policy i have mentioned a case to your um to your solicitor the corian case in westminster city council that you've got a policy it's not there to be blindly and routinely um blindly routinely followed and you can have exceptions to the policy and your um your question counts is can you um depart from your policy and make an exception here whilst also promoting the purpose of that policy and obviously the purpose is to make sure that we're promoting the licensing objectives and i'd hope with 38 temporary event notice there's not a single complaint to police ehl or licensing with all the noise testing we've done and the robust conditions that you've got there council that you can make that justification and your policy is quite useful at 16.8 it mentions you can have flexibility around that policy for specific circumstances or a mix of hours location and premises types now you've got a classic here you've got a mix of hours not at all monday to wednesday shorter thursday sunday later friday saturday it's a mixture of a location that isn't covered at all in your policy and the premises type is extremely unusual it's it's event space that's paragraph 16.8 it talks about when flexibility to that policy policy can can be uh can be justified um you mentioned council the the open windows counts robson you're probably going to ask me about that um that is true yes of course it's not so it is not winter the one thing i would ask you however to bear in mind is that we have had these temporary event notices at rather difficult time over christmas and new year so in terms of actual um time of year and how busy we may be on a friday and saturday we've obviously been at a at the festive period put it like that councils when you're probably going to get more customers than norm but i can't guarantee that of course we may be busy during the summer months as well but we do have um two or three door staff who will be assisting with that dispersal and the beauty for you captures and for us is we will have to when we use this license if you're minded to grant it we don't need to use it for tens we must use an id scan now because what that means is these are a specialist venue with specialist uh artists if you cause trouble cancers it's very easy for us to exclude somebody via use of that id scan extremely easy we can spot who they are and they actually can be banned from our premises so we can stop them going in there and the other thing i ask you to bear in mind it's mentioned by a couple of the objectors that service yard is dark it's not normally patrolled it's locked as a gate we have eyes there whether that be a safe haven or otherwise the actual use of that area with the lighting and security um can only be a good thing and alessandro what we'd like to say to you is that we are happy and i've had confirmation of this council if you're minded to say to us before we start to use these premises we will carry out an acoustic test in alessandro's flat if he'd let us uh have access to it but the other thing we'll say to you is as well we'll let you have the telephone number whether that's luca or jay the two owners you can have their mobile number okay we'll provide that with you again happy for you to say councillors that we would do that via the council and we provide it to anybody who's objected to the application today councillors so we'd have to do that three cells because we obviously don't have any contact details and very finally on on the comments made by alessandro is mentioned glassware we don't have any glassware councillors it's all cans or it is all uh polycarbonate we don't have any so very finally sir um your policy i'd ask you to have a look at um your policy paragraph 1.8 policy 1.8 talks about you encourage innovation your own licensing policy you support responsible premises paragraph 4.3 you well regulated and responsible and safely run premises can make a positive contribution towards the community cohesion and cultural development and i say we fall into that and paragraph 519 of your policy supports the national guidance that the police are the main source of advice on crime disorder and they haven't objected the national guidance i'm sure this will point you to this is it's reasonable to expect environmental health to object if they're concerned about noise nuisance and they haven't we've agreed the conditions that that are there so you're up your decision obviously is evidence-based appropriate and proportion if you are managed to refuse it so perhaps you could still tell us which conditions if you still don't feel the condition robust of which ones and and if you do um tell us why and let us know we've we've held these events these guys are passionate about this there's no reference to any objections during all of these temporary event notices councils thank you sorry i've gone on i've got on i've taken it back i just wanted to my i just think i'm going to push you in terms of the conditions to strength to either come up with something for the safe haven one that we can then consider but when we go into deliberation i just want to push you a little bit more on the contact information i don't think this should just be privy to alessandro uh to have a golden ticket to the venue i think i would maybe the committee might feel um a bit more satisfied to think that if residents for example in the towers are experiencing high volumes of noise in the summer that they feel that they could be able to access the venue with the contact phone number and stuff so i think it may be a condition to be proposed about um making available a contact number um uh i could you i think we've got i think we've got something that we've got a model condition that we could you've got you've got lmc 98 sir yeah so we could do that um yeah it's a direct phone number for the manager shall be publicly available when the premises are open number is to be made available to residents and businesses in the vicinity any complaint shall be remedied within 48 hours so we'd be happy to do lmc 98 sir we might have to do that through perhaps your licensing officer justin as to how best to make sure we circulate that correctly but yes we'll do that well i mean for discussion but you're not against against the principle no no and the safe haven condition i doubt you've got an lmc on the safe haven sir but i guess if we had something along the lines of that the premises will actively promote and participate in the um lunderborough of lamberts or within the safe haven initiative or any successor to it i'm making this up as i go but your solicitor's hopefully writing it down or any successor to it so we'll actively promote and participate in the safe haven or any successor to such a scheme counsellors thank you on that note selena hi thank you um i was just wondering if licensing maybe uh paul richards if you've got any you did mention that it's been talked about if there's any condition um that licensing have already talked about um relating to a safe haven i seem to remember it being a condition twice previously i yeah um what i'll do i'll see if i can um find the wording and that'd be really helpful i mean if i'm allowed to am i allowed to name the premises now because if it's easier to find paul probably not no um i i would put that um um possibly there could be you know we can finalize because i i think mr smith and his team has as has agreed it um so that the decision could be if we don't find it in time that um it's agreed in principle and then we can finalize the wording okay okay justin you've got your hand up thanks church i have a condition um available which i can share with paul um and selena thank you that'd be useful do we need to hear it see it now selena before yeah do you want to say it now yeah i think for mr smith's benefit and that would be helpful yeah oh gosh is he frozen you're frozen no we're all frozen no can you hear me reference for you sorry yeah give me something i'll i'll pull it up give me one one minute please sorry and then is that just so i can note for any other comments adrian serena did you have any final thing before we go no just for you as well justin then just before you read this the only i should have asked you this very very start because i think there was something about the application being visible it wasn't visible last time around i just wanted to confirm that it was on the gates this time around and so that passersby could have seen the application that's correct thank you cheers one second and i think the only other final final thing i had that's been picked on about bins and waste was is there anything to do about the business there is something about people dropping litter in front on the streets afterwards but with would the business be applicable or open to a condition or something to the like about you know once you finish trading or whatever ensuring that the front of the building or at the front of the entranceway or whatever is all clear of all litter and any rubbish and all that kind of stuff reese yeah yes i've already got instructions on that uh we are happy to agree to any such condition i'm just trying to find it in your model conditions can thank you just bear with me for example mcdonald's do a litter sweep the day after or something like that you know so it's something like that that so it's like you're going into the community working here luca did you want to come in while we're looking that up yeah i mean we already uh pay for cleaners to come and sweep the general yard area in front of our unit uh after every single event and we can extend that very easily to be going up to the top of the road to make sure that there's any like polls or anything that have been confiscated or anything like that also just alessandro um i just wanted to point out that we're obviously we've only been running on these temporary event notices and we've had no guarantee that we're going to be able to stay at the property for very long uh we've got this break clause that we might need to exercise which has meant that i mean we're already quite deep in the hole financially and um but having spent all the money that we've already spent on soundproofing toilets and the rest of it um obviously if we get this uh licensing if we get the confirmation that we have the license we'll be able to budget far more for soundproofing and we'll be more than happy to liaise with you and any other residents on any you know any any form of soundproofing that we need whether it's for um you know for the music specifically or uh containing the noise smoking area thank you for that um just recently you want to come in on the i i i just was going to say that i've had conditions in the past that were pretty simple to do with littering which were um the the whatever the premises is operating as as as a licenseable activities the venue management will ensure that the surrounding area and the street for let's say 20 meters in each direction on the footpath will be kept clean and clear of any waste relating to the arrival and departure of its patrons yep yeah i can't see anything in your model conditions um councillor robson i can't see anything then and then and then an end of night cleanup is required i've had i've had to evidence that with photographs in the past but i feel that's a little bit too okay too much justin sorry there was me thank you chair oh sorry mine was just quick to say there's a a condition that says the premises shall undertake routine little bits to the public footpath directly outside the premises to remove all discarded litter drinking vessels food waste packaging and cigarette butts on page 148 it might have been a different application but it's the it's the right i'm gonna say because we've got the different printed condition latest conditions haven't we which are on a separate page well that's it yeah thanks adrian put it this way sir we're more than happy to agree so we're more than happy to agree searching condition if you mind into grant it thank you justin and then let's apologies because we're up to quarter to six now um and it's good job we weren't doing this any later with it otherwise it'll be quarter to 11th yeah thanks chair um yeah the condition reads as follows the premises shall provide a designated safe space within the establishment for patrons and pedestrians who may require it this space shall be easily accessible offering an environment for individuals to wait and or seek assistance the safe space shall be monitored by staff during operation hours to ensure safety and well-being of individuals using the area that's fine happy with that thank you um right on that note team she'll unless there's any other matters arising questions business however you want to phrase it um i'll ask everybody to stay put um maybe dip to the loo have a refreshment we will be back in due course thank you uh you you you Good evening everyone, this is Jacqueline Pennycook, just to let you know that the committee are now going to rejoin the meeting. Good evening, thank you for bearing with us. Eight minutes past six, not too bad, just coming under five hours on the clock, so let's see if we can do this. Have we got everybody present? Applicants? Yes, representatives? Okay, so, well, there's Serene in. I'll wait for Councillor De Silva to, here she is. Thanks Serene, so don't worry if you need to keep your camera off, that's absolutely fine. And Selene and Paul, Justin, okay, here goes. The licensing subcommittee having carefully considered the application and submissions on behalf of the applicant have determined to grant the application with proposed conditions. There will be an amendment to the operating schedule on Sundays. The scale of alcohol consumption on of the premises will be from ten hundred hours. As previously said, it was eight to twenty three hundred hours. So that's from ten hours to twenty three hundred hours. Members have determined to add the following conditions on the premises license. What? A direct telephone number for the manager of the premises shall be publicly available at all times that the premises is open. This number is to be made available to residents and businesses in the vicinity. Any complaints should be remedied within forty eight hours and details to be recorded in the incident book, including the action taken by the manager. Two, the premises shall undertake routine litter fix to the public footpath 20 metres outside the premises to remove all discarded litter, drinking vessels, food waste, packaging and cigarette butts. Of course, that goes for the area outside the premises and along as well. The premises shall provide a designated safe space within the establishment for patrons and pedestrians who may require it. This space shall be easily accessible, offering an environment for individuals to wait or seek assistance. The safe space should be monitored by staff during operating hours to ensure the safety and well-being of all individuals using the area. Members also recognize the applicant is taking time to submit a well thought out application and was satisfied that the business model put forward and agreed conditions will promote the licensing objectives. And with that, that brings our business this evening or this afternoon to a close. So I just want to say again thank you all for your time and efforts and a big thanks to the team officers and to my committee. I wish you a lovely evening. Could I could I say counsellors on behalf of myself, my clients, thank you very much for listening in your consideration. Thank you. Thank you, Mr Smith. All the best. Bye bye. Thank you.