Transcript

to welcome to this meeting of the Surrey Local Firefighters Pension Board. A couple of housekeeping items. In line with the openness of local government regulations, 2014, anyone attending today's meeting, including members of the board, can film, record, and or use social media, provided this does not disturb the business of the meeting. And please note that the meeting is in public and is being live webcast. And can I ask board members and anyone else presenting to speak clearly and directly into their microphones? And we have, OK. Let's put their phones on silent, if they can. Apologies for absence. We have silly Wilson and we have Richard and Glenn in the room and we have Paul, I think on the screen, is that right? Yeah. Okay. So I'd also like to welcome attendees in person rather than on the screen. So Graham and Sharon from XPS, you're very welcome here. And I think it's excellent you're here from time to time, make that long journey from north to south and present in person. There's a lot going on and there are changes in the report, so it's very helpful to be able to have the correct dialogue. Thank you. Okay. The first item is to agree the minutes as a true record of the meetings. They're on pages five. Is that agreed? Yes. Yeah. And I just briefly want to note, although we are quarry, despite the absence of Sally, we need a quorum is a minimum of two, but it has to be one from the member side and one from the employer side, so we are quarry with the three of us. Do any members have a declaration of interest to make? No? Thank you. And we have no member questions, no public questions, and no petitions. So if we can go on to the Pension Board Action and Recommendation Tracker. And this, although there was one issued with the main papers, there is a supplementary agenda dealing with this item. So we made a number of changes, and so I think it would be useful to look through them. We combined A-20-20 and A-10-24. Perhaps, Graham, could I ask you to open? Where are we on GMP? Yeah, the team is working through the report that we received, and obviously we'll have the end of next week to planning in a team. Okay, that's on the GMP side, I think. Yeah, okay. Good. And we have a number of others where we're really there about the data being supplied. A-20-24, and I guess the question is, have we given the data to XPS? I think we set ourselves a February deadline. Thank you. And I think A-9-24 deals with the same sort of issue there. I note there's a reference on page 11 to A-10-24, which we have merged. So I think, Toby, if we can take out the second reference to have useful action tracker here. And could I just note A-11, 12, and 13, we're looking for an update at the meeting. So perhaps we'll come back to those after we've had the report from XPS, and we'll close them out if we think that's appropriate at that stage. So, sorry, I've done most of the speaking and running through that, but I'll ask Lynn and Richard if they've got any comments. Points within the agenda in any case. Yeah, yeah. Thank you. Right, so we're asked to note the content of that item. So is that agreed? It is. Thank you. Next item, and this is back to the main pack, is the report from the scheme manager. ...in total who have been reached out to. And we have, within those, 94 responded and eight have come back in a... It's a scan. There are still some out there that are confused. And as awareness generally increases, there are conversations that are happening in various places. Can I just ask a question? I mean, the letters or emails are going out on behalf of the, and they're official, so people really think... ...be within whatever leeway there is. I mean, I would say it strikes me if there are only eight so far in that category, we could actually phone them up directly and ask them to speak to us and, you know, emphasize it's not a scam. I mean, it would be terrible if... I mean, we're all warned to be alert to scams, and that would be terrible. I think if it's just eight, perhaps we could make a direct approach. Yeah, I think that's when we can work with you to do so. Absolutely. Could I... In relations to the others, so that's not the 94 and not the eight, so that's still about 50 percent. And maybe some of them... And we think we've got the addresses of the majority of them. I can understand if a complicated letter comes in and you put it to one side or ignore it, and is there... I mean, and we're chasing those again. Can we... Yeah. Can you talk about that process? Because for our benefit to know we are reaching out to the correct individual, now we've had the address matches back, now is the time we'll be sending out further communication to them, and the guidance and the information we were given to send out to individuals was quite lengthy. So I can understand, and... They're actually in the deferred category, aren't they, in that regard, I think. Yeah. Yeah, because if they're the active employees, obviously, we've got their emails, they're here, they're easy to contact, so this is going to... On the deferreds, there may be a network of formal members that could be accessed, perhaps. If I may, Chair. If I may, Chair, if I may. Hello? Sorry, we can hear you. Thank you. Okay, thank you. I sit on the welfare board in the Somi Fire and Rescue Service, and it represents a lot of people that have retired and moved on. So things like the Anglin Society, the Gulf Society, et cetera, have quite a few retired members. I'm happy to reach out to them to find out what communication they've had, or if they feel there have been any scan messages and feedback. That would be very useful. Thank you. Thank you, Paul. And, well, I think from this board, we're recommending the service. It takes all steps possible to make contact and explain where necessary. So, thank you. Sure, yeah, I mean, it won't be an all-capturing sort of message, but at least I can reach some of the retired members. Thank you. Thanks, Danny. Right, and people say, there's £20,000 here. It's too good to be true, so it does sound like a scam. It's a difficult thing to get people, especially here all the time, if it's too good to be true. And it's about proposed amendments to the firefighter scheme. The current sort of key areas around extending eligibility for just the pre-2006 service under the modified section. So, that meant that their deferred pension within the standard 2006 scheme would be left as it is. And if you compare to that, that will be slightly easier. We can get that out shortly. We have made cons to members to confirm this position, and also probably we'll look to do a few more to make sure that they're aware. But also, it's obviously worth noting that the police at this stage. Rome, any comment about timescales once we hand it over? Yeah, absolutely. The chief finance officer did attend the countywide audit and governance committee recently, and he, I mean, he was quite candid there and discussed the issues, and did not feel he was able to give full reassurance to the, you know, the council able to give that reassurance. And I think, therefore, it's probably unreasonable that the fire service is able to do that because of the, you know, that it's right you made that comment, and, you know, it's passed along and acted on. So, thank you. I think as well, for this, by the 23-24, I'm back to 15, and members have got to put things into HMRC for that as well. With that, there's less of a deadline, and it's the fact that you've got three months from receiving the remedial pension statement, whereas there's extra steps as part of this as well that needs to be completed. So, hopefully – sorry, Richard. Just one final comment, and I don't want to detract from – no, I do understand that. I appreciate that as well. Thank you. Could – the final comment there in the report is an update to the TPR on the breach. Have we filed that? Thank you. And can you keep us updated at the moment? So, when we do get them out, we'll tell them, and hopefully that will be signed off for this year. Thank you. Yeah, thanks, Nick. I think we've touched upon pension savings statements, but I'll just go into it briefly. We've obviously got the pension savings statements and the remedial pension savings statements that required those individuals who were affected to obviously have submitted their tax, know the actual details. The comms have been sent out to all of them as well, just to keep them informed prior to this deadline, earlier on this year, and before that. It's 10 of the existing 15 codes into one single practice code. We have looked at this, and we've updated and created an action plan against where we're currently at. One of the key sort of feedback on that is training was one of those areas. We have now booked in the team on LGA courses, and we know we've also got the LGA training for the – connected is October this year. That will initially show the savings amounts, projected retirement income, and will link to some other information and tools which are listed in the report. Why haven't you made it as high as you possibly can? So, picking up on that, making those decisions, you know, opting for the matching criteria, we – Apologies, I'll come back to that. Yes, so this is another consultation that's come through. We've had quite a few recently from the Home Office on the updates to the pension scheme regulations, and this is running until the end – oh, ran, sorry, until the end of 2020 – January 25, and it looks at adjustment on the contribution rates. So, that one has – well, not just the rate, but the whole structure, because the structure we currently have in place, which is a banding structure, is the bands are completely out of date now. So, we have about four bands, I think, band one. The suggestion was to split tier two, or perhaps even out the tiers a bit more. So, that was another option. And the third option with regards to the tiering was perhaps we should be looking at them more in a higher tier. So, it was to consider all those options, and then, as an addition to that, how to future inflation proof and again in another five, ten years. And so, the various suggestions were in line with CPI, in line with average earnings, and that sort of thing. All the fire authorities have been considering. I sent out a document and circulated it within SLT with my call in the deadline. If I can ask. So, is that available to members to see what the authority put in? Members on that for awareness? I guess it's quite a difficult area because, you know, we're not the employers, are we? So, it's for the employers to submit that. But I think if it was an item on our next agenda to look at that, that would be quite a useful step. At our next meeting, if we could, if that's agreed, we could put it on our agenda. Yeah, that'd be great. And I mean just from awareness rather than the kind of confrontation thing. Just touching on the resourcing of the team, we now have a full team. It's fantastic. Up to three members now. So, Jacqueline started with us about three weeks ago. She's the unit for... Apologies. Sorry, I'd just like to say that's great news to see that the pension team's up to scratch and look forward to working with them. It is, and perhaps we can minute our appreciation of that in our minutes, please. Toby, thanks. Oh, by the way, I didn't introduce Toby, remiss of me early on, to welcome Toby as our new committee manager. You're very welcome and getting grips with the intricacies of the council and of the fire regulations. So, you're welcome and I think you're now the permanent person in this role. So, you're very welcome. Thank you. With the unit for introduction. Can I add that when the county's resources and performance committee looked at this and considered what needs the unit for the pensions, the fire pensions element, and indeed the general pension element was, you know, had particular focus and resources devoted. When news starters commence, so they have that information from day one. There is the employee contribution rate review. This was published in the SFRS news letter that we have on the 28th of November last year, advising members of the contribution rate review and that consultation. We have the Matthews Remedy podcast. So, this is about, obviously, informing about that Matthews Remedy. And this was published in December 2024, the site and information around that particular remedy. So, that's been put out there. The tax and self-assessment. And, obviously, we had a lot of information go out around that at the appropriate time in January. And so, the key communications that have gone out. Sorry, apologies. I missed one there on the tax and self-assessment as well. So, information updated on the SharePoint site to reflect the changes in various areas. You can see those in the report there, ranging from the McLeod discrimination through to their pension in-house. So, that's a really positive change. And it's come from feedback from staff as well and what they would like to see. The team are also going out more wide. Yeah, now it's out. So, just there's a little bit of summary there on the SharePoint site visits, which you can see. So, 375, sorry, in total over the last 90 days have been visited. It's been visited by, sorry. In the last 30 days, the average time spent was around sort of two and a half minutes, which I think is significantly increased from the last time, which is great. Obviously, more information being sought. And in the last 90 days, 100% of those visitors did it by desktop device, which is quite a standard thing. Thank you. Certainly, as we've seen it develop over the months and years, I mean, the quality and the depth, I think, is much better. And although we spend a lot of time going through it, I think it's the fact that we have the detail and we can look at it, which is very important. So, on behalf of the board, I think we'd like to thank you both for the improved quality, improving quality of that. Thanks very much. So, we're asked to note the content of this report. Is that agreed? Okay. Thank you. So, I think we're going on now to the general code, which was referred to, wasn't it, briefly. It's a very long report. There's a lot of issues to be covered. There's quite a lot of green, but on the other hand, there's quite a lot of amber. And, you know, some of the issues we've dealt with already are relevant to, you know, contributions and so on and so forth. I'll ask you to, I mean, I would suggest you highlight the amber points. Would that be useful? If other members, Glyn and Richard, if you want to join in any other items, I'm happy to, you know, just break in and we'll cover any points for concern. But perhaps we will focus on the amber items. So, just a note, there are no reds on the report, luckily. That's a really positive thing to start with. But just moving into the ambers, the sort of key areas requiring review, one of which is the dispute resolution. We've recognised this as a gap within, you know, the provision currently. We are taking this forward as part of the compliance report actions. So, that will be looked into and reviewed. So, that's just a bit of word of note, really, in respect of that. The second one is around the administration and the contributions, also around the reporting to the pensions regulator. So, they are the key four areas that are represented in the amber categories in the compliance report currently that we are working on. As I mentioned, in particular, the one around where we've recognised the gap in that compliance procedure. Could I just make a couple of comments and ask other members to come in? In terms of reporting to the pensions regulator, we do have a process. So, it's a question of looking at that. And we've used that from time to time, of course. And on the IDRP, I think it's very normal for, I understand we haven't had a few until perhaps recently. But it is normal that, you know, the generics, the actions and how things are dealt with do come to the board. But on the LGPS scheme, it's a regular thing of the pension board to look at those. So, let's include that in our next report, please. Absolutely. Is that a mission or is that recorded elsewhere? Which page is this on? Page 28. Could I raise one myself? I'm not quite sure where it fits in this process. But when I was reviewing it, I mean, there's, for a funded pension scheme, which we're not, there are quite complicated financial liabilities and various investments and so on, the actuarial report, et cetera, which doesn't apply to the scheme. And as an unfunded scheme, there are some quite different reporting requirements, you know, the funding from members, from the employer, and then the top-up from central government, home office. We have had a presentation on that in the past. Glenn, you may remember, I mean, you were on the committee at that time, on the board at that time. But I think it would be well worth having an update on that because it provides a bit more rounded information. So, could we, something to take forward with finance colleagues and perhaps put on the next agenda? I think it would be very, very useful. In the county's financial statements, which run to several hundred pages, there's two or three pages on the fire pension arrangements and the unfunded liability, which is effectively with government. But quite useful to understand that, gives a bit of background. So, if we can put that on the agenda. We'll take that away, thanks. Anything else? Okay. So, while we, when we work through the AMBERs, it will be, you know, regular reporting back, I think, as a standing item, transactions, updates, et cetera. I don't suppose there'll be something to report back at every meeting, but I suspect things will be moving forward and perhaps it could be part of, Danny, either the regular report or maybe a separate item on the agenda as you feel fit. So, with that said, are you, is the board happy to approve the report? Thank you. Note the report, I should say. Okay. Over to colleagues from XPS and, again, nice to see you here in person. Thank you, Nick. So, obviously, this is our report. It's, my brain wasn't working properly when I first set these up. So, again, membership steadily increasing in total, but, as you can see, actual active membership is going down a more positive way. And, again, obviously, I'll let the FBU people come in. Graham, perhaps I'll ask board members if they've got queries on the individual sections, which will be there that way. And, again, we should also wear the service level glue going up as well as we go through these quarters and months. Headlines, again, just trying to give key headlines here. So, as I said, we'll give an update on those. One thing we want to focus on as well is we noticed when the cloud first came in, no systems weren't quite far behind. We technically have three different types of benefit statements that are going out. We have your standard one, which is covering care-only members, so anybody else who's joined since 2015. Get those ABSs out. We also cover everyone's complaints in here, so anything that comes into our office. And, again, it's just the way we're going to start. Is the registered users by age data, is that across all forum, please? No, that's sorry for your results, sir. I wonder whether we could maybe support the take-up more. Do I have a current address? It makes it that bit more difficult. Some of the work we're doing in other exercises will hopefully drive that up as well. And, again, the dashboard itself. And, again, this is relatively high, I would say, considering we're still waiting for a lot of the year-end. So, again, keeping up to make sure that any reports required for LGA that you're doing those on a regular basis. I do find it a useful collation because the fire bullets themselves are huge. Yes. Coms as well. I mean, obviously, you don't have to. If you don't feel that that's something you want to do. But we can give you that. Questions, comments on this? No? So, we're asked to note this report and to thank you very much for the presentation. So, the next item is the fire bulletins. We've dealt, I think, with quite a lot of the changes, and we asked the question of XPS. So, anything you want to point to us or anything members want to raise? No? Okay. Thank you very much. And so, we are moving on. So, we're asked to note that report. And if we can move on to the risk register, please. That it's being put in place for those individuals and the team as a whole. So, that one has been lowered in. Any questions on that? Apologies. We did welcome it when we looked at your report. Thank you. Thank you. And the new risks, just a couple there. One we've added in there around the budget associated with these projects, because obviously, it's quite high. So, we've reflected that as a risk in itself. I know it's incorporated in some others, but it's just one of its own currently. Now, in that report. And also, 11A, which is around pension savings statements. So, that's also been put in there. Members? No? So, we also have the very detailed report. Any comments on that? No. I think the chart which shows the increasing risk at one side and the regular risk is quite a helpful summary to show us where the risks are. So, thank you for that. So, we're asked to note that report. Note the risk register. Is that agreed? Good. Thank you. So, my note here says the next meeting is on the 6th of February, but I'm sure that's not the case. Okay, 17th of April. Fine. So, I think we've discussed a couple of things we're going to put on, feedback on progress on the Code of Conduct standards, and hopefully a finance presentation as well. So, I think those will be good and useful additions. So, thank you. Thank you for attending, and I'll close the meeting now.