Transcript

Good evening, everybody. Welcome along to tonight's meeting of the Scrutiny Commission. Now 25% of the way through our terms. So we're finding another three years to go. Apologies and substitutions. Do we have any? Apologies from Councillor Simmons with Councillor ALLAN substituting. Thank you. Minutes of the last meeting. Do we have any comments regarding accuracy? Councillor interjecting. Yes, Councillor CRUMS. I move the minutes as a true record. Thank you. Thank you. Those in favour? Thank you. Minutes approved. Additional urgent business by reason of special circumstances. I have been advised of none. Any declarations of interest, please? Absolutely. Yes, Chair. I've got some declarations for transparency on item 9. My involvement as the Heritage Champion, I've been involved in the Blue Pack Scheme, which features in the appendices. I'm also a committee member of Burbage Heritage Group, which has been on receipt of one of the grants. And I'm also a member of the Burbage Parish Council that, last year, we see important grants. Comprehensive, thank you. Any other declarations of interest? Councillor ALLAN. Thank you. This one, Chair, for transparency in terms of item 8, the PowerShell Community Initiative Fund grants on Chairman of El Shunt and Town Council, which is a proposed beneficiary of said grant. Thank you. Thank you. Any other declarations? No? Okay, we have the minutes there for—no, sorry. So, yes, we can move on then to item 5 questions. Any questions in accordance with County Procedure of 12? I haven't been notified of any. We don't have any. So, we can then move on to the scrutiny commission work program. Members will remember we moved this from the tail end of the agenda to slightly higher up, so that we were all still fresh and alive and awake and able to contribute and put forward any ideas or thoughts that you may have about the program. We have met with the Vice-Chairs, and we intend to do that on a regular ongoing basis and made a few tweaks to the program. So, I'm happy to take any questions or suggestions people have. After I've just made one comment, which was Councillor Moore referred at the last meeting to the need to bring forward the item about buses and the bus-related issues within the Hinkley and Bosworth area. I haven't been talking to the Chief Executive, Mr. Colin, about that. The rest of the County Council have not yet shared details of how the HS2 money is going to be dived out or allocated that will affect the position with regard to buses. So, as soon as we have that, we will then be in a position to bring the bus item forward. I think to bring that forward before we have it would be a little bit premature, and we may have to go back and revisit it. So, there's another leaders meeting at the end of May. Hopefully there will be some clarity following that, and we can look to put it potentially onto the July item agenda. Okay. This may be a question for our esteemed County Councillors, but do we know what the HS2 timetable for allocating these funds and reviewing that particular fund is from the point of view of the officers there? I don't Councillor Moore, and I'm not sure that it will be, I don't know if any of our County Council colleagues would be in a position to answer that. That would be more a decision for officers than can. Okay. So, the ball is in the air, and it's passing back and forth. After the work program then, is there anybody who has any questions about the existing work program that they'd like to ask, or any suggestions for items to add to it? I just had one suggestion, which was going to be whether we could add a lead officer onto the work program so that if somebody had a question about an item that was on the program that they wanted to raise in advance of the meeting, if that could be added, that would be helpful. I don't know if that's going to be possible. Okay. Right. It's on there. Okay. Councillor Crooks. Thank you very much, Mr Chairman. Looking down the list, we've got, for March and April 2025, housing associations review, some of the information that we received yesterday makes me think that perhaps if possible we could move that up onto an earlier scrutiny program, please, because I think if that is that possible, Sharon, would it cause problems? I'm sure it would be. If I can just discuss with the officers that would lead on it and then maybe discuss with yourself, Chair, then we can look to see if we can move that forward. I take your point about the link with some of the items we were discussing yesterday. Absolutely. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor Crooks. Thank you, Sharon. Any other comments at all or questions? No. Okay. We're happy to end you. I'm a proposal for the work plan as it stands then. Councillor Harris, seconder, Councillor Sertis. All in favour to approve the work program? Yes. Thank you very much. This brings us on to item seven on the agenda, and I'd like to welcome Sharon. Sharon McGuffie is the DSO Strategic Engagement Officer from National Grid and has come along in response to a question that Councillor KOPA asked for Council, sorry, for question. Get my teeth in today. We are planning to bring along the three utility companies or the three utility bodies, should I say. I think it's fair to say that National Grid have been by far the most communicative, but I love a challenge. So we pursue the water and water and gas cadence and seven trend with due diligence, and hopefully they will come along to a future meeting. But tonight we have the pleasure of a presentation from Sharon. Are you happy to take it forward, Sharon? Yes. If you could just press your button on the console, the one on, it should be the one on the right hand side. Thank you. Good evening. My name is Sharon McGuffie and I'm the DSO Strategic Engagement Officer for National Grid's East Midlands Electricity Distribution License Area. I'm here to talk to you about our network forecasting and planning. So I thought I'd start this presentation by explaining the rebound of Western Power Distribution or WPD to National Grid that's taken place over the last two and a half years. In September 2022, Western Power Distribution completed its rebound as National Grid. And as part of the National Grid Group, we have become the largest electricity distribution business in the UK, distributing power to 8 million homes and businesses, covering the East and Western South Wales. Our vision hasn't changed. It's still to be the heart of a clean, fair and affordable energy future to enable net zero while continuing to save the operator reliable network. We will do this by delivering excellent customer services by keeping the lights on and ensuring customers can have a connection when they want it. Our role as a local distribution network operator or DNO hasn't changed. We've advised our customers of the rebrand and our new branding arperes on our website, social media, communications, publications and vehicles etc. So before I start talking about our network planning process, I thought it would be a good idea to explain how National Grid operates as a distribution system operator or DSO, and a distribution network operator DNO within the electricity distribution. UK's electricity system has undergone a rapid period of change as distribution network customers invest in generation and all to their consumption behaviours to affect a low carbon future. This requires the network to be running a smarter and more flexible way which prompted the creation of the DSO. Distribution system operators are part of the distribution network operator focused on network development so it can help the UK and stakeholders reach their decarbonisation ambitions by delivering a network in the most efficient economic and coordinated way. This will include providing adequate capacity ahead of time in order to reduce delays for new connections. So why is the DSO required or distribution system operator? We're taking a more strategic approach to investing on our networks and ensuring that we collaborate and engage with stakeholders along the way. In the next 30 years, the way that the electricity distribution network is used is going to change as we use electricity to decarbonise sectors such as domestic heat, transport and electricity generation. Load growth on our networks will change such that not all network investment for load growth will be driven by a single new connections to the network. There will be more focus on planning for the future and developing different ways of solving constraints on our network should mean that we can build our network in the most coordinated way possible. This slide shows the interaction between the DSO and the DSO. On the left of the slide we can see the responsibilities of the DSO which include building up the network in a smart and flexible way, helping us to keep the lights on. On the right on the side of the slide are the responsibilities of the DSO which include decision making on how to accurately create new capacity to serve current and future needs. There are parameters set down by off-gen that we have to work with them. Off-gen regulates how much revenue we can earn and what we must deliver to earn it. This is all set out in our latest business plan. Our current business plan is known as Rio ED2 and runs for a period of five years from April 2023 out to 2028. Investing to increase the capacity of our network is funded through bill payers and so it is essential that any investment in our network is efficient and more justified. Within Rio ED2 we can request additional funding to build more network capacity if there is clear evidence that it is required. This is why it's so important to understand your local area energy ambitions. So how is the DSO evolving? First we are committed to improving and improving how we collaborate and coordinate the local energy transition across the whole system in partnership with key stakeholders. Secondly we are taking a more strategic approach to how we design and build our network going forward. Thirdly this more strategic approach is based on the open and transparent conversations about our network and do not we can support our stakeholders to achieve their decarbonisation aspirations. So how are our national grid electricity distribution planning the network for a decarbonised future and how do we see distribution customers using the network out into the future? We do this by planning and forecasting. We follow a strategic investment process. Firstly the information that we see from customers feeds into our distribution future energy scenarios or DFOs which identifies how customers will use our network in the future. A DFOs report is produced annually for each local authority in the national grid licensed areas and the latest reports were published in April 2024. Using this data we then carry out a network impact assessment from which we create network development plans one per licensed area where we analyse and identify future constraints on the network. The latest update of data network development plans for our East Midlands licensed area were published on May 1st. Thirdly we carry out an optioneering process, the distribution network options assessment or DINOA which outlines how we plan to invest in our network to solve constraints. These three individual reports can be found on the national grid website. Just some more detail about the distribution future energy scenarios or DFOs. Our distribution future energy scenarios outline the range of credible futures for the growth of the distribution network broadly aligning with electricity system operators or ESOs future energy scenarios or FERS. It is the first stage of our network investment planning process that will ensure our network is ready for a decarbonised future. The reports detail different low carbon technology projections out to 2050. You can view our future forecasts by electricity supply point or local authority on our interactive DFOs map which we can find online. This slide shows the deeper cycle from the updating of underlying scenario data in March each year to the reconciliation between the ESOs future energy scenarios and the distribution future energy scenarios in February of the following year. The DSO is recently published on our website, new documents that map out our DSO strategic action plan and our DSO charter. We've also published a guide to the DINOA DSO that demonstrates the independence between the distribution network operator and the distribution system operator or DSO. I just wanted to mention local area energy planning and how this feeds into our planning process. So what is local area energy planning and why is it important local area energy plan or layer? As it's commonly known as it is a data driven and whole energy system evidence based approach that sets out to identify the most effective route for the local area to contribute towards meeting national and local targets for decarbonisation. When we talk about whole energy we are talking about bringing together different factors like for instance electricity, gas, hydrogen, transport, heat. Local area energy planning helps us to deliver a distribution network fit for the future that facilitates local decarbonisation. Information data from the local area energy plan helps us to identify one way to invest in the network to ensure the network is available when our customers need it. Currently there are no local area energy plans for less to share. However less to share counter counts are procured and have recently started on the journey of producing a local area energy plan. I've been being successful in securing funding from an innovative UK. We've recently updated our website and there is now a dedicated page for local area energy planning where we've brought together different data sets and other useful information. Finally I'd just like to mention that coming up over the next few months we've got a couple of webinars that you might find interesting. On June 13th we've got our distribution future changes scenarios webinar for the East Midlands and then later in the summer following on in the planning process we'll have a webinar for our network development plan for the East Midlands. Thank you very much. Thank you very much Sharon for that. It's really interesting it's an area that you always assume there is something going on but you have no idea what it is and I'm delighted that you I think you've even surpassed the local government threshold for minimum number of acronyms. And I presented before that's been a big issue and for all of its roles. No it was all there it's quite clear. Before I open for wider for questions in terms of joining the webinars how is that facilitated? Is there some contact details that you could give to Becky for the minutes? That would be that would be helpful. It's one of the joys of these webinars is that you can have as many people as the server will hold. It was your question at full council David I thought I'd give you the first platform if that's the right question. Any questions from yourself though? It's very gracious of you to suggest that we can have this webinar on June the 13th but regrettably lamentably I shall be in the south of Italy travelling around that coast. I've been thinking about it very seriously just now as to which option I ought to take and I'm coming to a bit of a conclusion. But what I'm really interested in you're the distribution network I'm interested also in the production of the energy. Are you involved in the production of it or is that a different? Okay. But you obviously have some sort very closely as on with the generate. Sorry? I mean in our team that our engineers I mean I'm not an engineer but our engineers sit there and obviously when I came from gas distribution to electricity distribution, it was all about it's always been about demand. There was very little generation and then I got into electricity five years ago now and it was quite strange to have that generation there because when it was demanded it was quite an easy kind of planning process. When a generation comes into the mix it gets more complicated by the day but we have got colleagues in the team who would come and support any kind of meeting who would come and talk about generation specifically. Yeah because what I was thinking along the lines of obviously we see lots of development going on we see huge sheds going up with EVs being used in them now and obviously domestic EVs. And in the back of my mind I'm thinking well okay we're shutting coal fired units down and we're moving towards net zero and we've got nuclear power plants that we're looking at but they take an awful long time to develop. So they're going to be a long long way down the line and obviously if there's planning going on to try and plug the gap because obviously as we take away certain aspects of the production then it's got to be supplemented in some way or another. And I know that this wind and this solar and all this sort of thing. The distribution of it I would suspect is probably a downside easier than the production of it because you know you can put huge great countries up to carry the cables and so on and so forth or if you're going to do it underground. It's there a question for Sharon here. Yes I apologize. Thank you. Yeah I'm just really interested in the production side of it and how do you, for instance as we're building loads of houses and so on and so forth. Presumably there's a way that you access that process to be able to make that planning. The fact that about local energy planning and the fact that last year I've actually been successful in procuring a local energy plan with some funded through Innovate UK but I'm on that kind of one of the key stakeholders on that but it's very early stages at the minute. But in the absence of that plan which is a whole energy plan you know it's not just about electricity it's about gas hydrogen. We rely heavily on a local authorities local plan and other data that again we will be sending out to all local authorities in the next few weeks to gain some additional data from them because we update these scenarios on your basis. And then they feed into our network development plan which is every two years so the latest ones just been produced and you can actually you know if you go into our website and look on there you can look at anything that potentially is unless you're in your area and see what's planned for the future. We're all about engaging with people as early as possible like for new connections we want people to come local authorities to come to us as early as they can and have a connection so to have those discussions with us. And it's never too early to talk to us about your plans you know so we're really kind of keen to this engagement over the last year it's been the first year that we've actually actively gone up engaging with all the local authorities in our last and serious. And it's been very welcome because however difficult it's been for me to get in touch with the right people in the person in the local authority to talk about this. It's it's been it must be really difficult for people out there to actually come into the national grid and try and get to talk to the right people so. So it has been really successful so far you know so but we're really after that really early engagement so that we can invest in the network had a need if you like so. And of course what I said in the slides there and bill pairs are all the investment in the network is smeared across everybody's electricity bill you know. So we've got to justify every upgrade to the network through off jam. So yeah it's it's not connections driven as it has been in more recent times this business plan is quite different in that respect so. Okay thank you. Hi thanks for that it's Chris is it Sharon I do apologize Sharon thank you so much for coming really do appreciate it it's really good to have your engagement. I'm just a couple of questions firstly you referred to helping keep the lights on a couple of times is this something that's likely to be a problem. Today that you maybe we could have had we've got like a resilience kind of colleague at a team if you like and I thought that maybe after this meeting that I'm you know I might get in touch with them really because I think maybe as useful to come along and talk to you know but no it isn't and it hasn't been about thing you know so. With kind of planning and forecasting all the time you know even though we produce these plans they're continually updated. So yeah that's why the DSO has been set up because you know things have changed up there you know it's changing every day. So yeah that's why that's why the DSO was set up. Thank you my other question I will say I'm not quite old enough to remember the winter of discontent but Councillor Cope told me about it. My other question you talk about decarbonisation ambitions what do you mean by that does it is it quantifiable is it something you're aiming at or is it your partners purely their aim. Yeah we are striving for as a company you know internally for decarbonisation and the latest is still 2030 I don't think that's changed. But yeah we're really this role has been set up to if you like bridge that gap between National Grid and the DSO. So yeah our decarbonisation tag hasn't changed. Thank you very much. Yeah thanks very much. I've got a couple of things the first relates to new housing and I understand how the local plan comes into that. But the first question and it's a very generic one so I'm not trying to ask for any specifics. But it's whether you have network in emissions anywhere that has meant that housing schemes have had to be deferred because of the lack of the capacity in a particular area. And as I said I'm not asking for which areas I'm just wondering whether you're running at the moment you're able to run ahead of it. And the second question is on decarbonisation but particularly on electric vehicles and the switch for space heating to air pumps and stuff. Now both of those will increase the demand of the network in the local area and my question there is whether there's any imminent concern that those demands might mean a whole scale replacement or reinforcement requirement of the local network which would obviously mean lots of roadworks and all sorts of unintended unwanted things. So just a feeling for how close we are to those sorts of issues. All I would say to you is a combat to the point about coming to us early with the plans and whether we use your local plan. That's not to say that's the kind of the be all and end all of everything. So we don't want people come into us out there, stakeholders come into us, local authorities or cyber sector come into us which have had to sit with PND engineers which are primary network designers and I've heard these conversations where infrastructure has gone in and then they come to us for a connection only to be told that you know that's the first we've heard about it kind of thing and that your connection is going to be up till you know in the 2030s if it's got an impact on the transmission side. There's a lot of work going on transmission side to alleviate the queuing system. The first come for a served as regards capacity so there's a lot of work going on and still going on and that so but yeah I mean it's really important that would it be fair to say that there are some constraints that you're having to manage. Oh yeah there's yeah there always will be you know but that's in the past it's all been our network was strategically planned but it was very much as well based around single connections and we're going away from that. So that we're we want to know what's coming along in the future so that we can build the network out so that when you come to us for a connection that network's already there. So that's what this is all about and you know the GSA hasn't been going around very long but it's getting better all the time and there is a planning process and this engagement that we have with local authorities. You know the local authorities are you know having not seen the defense recently the latest defense will come back and they challenge some of the data in there. And I've had calls where people have said you know I'm just quickly looking at your defense and I can see housing or commercial and they'll say we don't agree with that. I said if you don't agree with that please feed it back to us because it's an annual process and so yeah that's it's a two way. The vehicles and the heat pumps yeah well if you know that is going to have an effect on the network for sure but again in our defense and ours which I will send to you and then you can actually send that the latest one out and you'll see those projections that we've got out to 2050 for all different low carbon technologies and of which EVs are in there. And it gives you the figures it because one for Hinkley and Bosworth that's you know so I send that out and you know you can scrutinize that and if there's only thing that jumps out with anybody that doesn't you know bring true then you know please get in touch and then I'll feed it back to the team. That sounds excellent. Thank you. Thanks Sharon really appreciate you coming in today. This is obviously a technical area and I'm not an engineer but I think you're sort of now touching on some of the concerns that we have as counselors about capacity and connection issues. I mean clearly in terms of the planning process you know we can get planning permission for 500 hours tomorrow and they can go up very quickly potentially housing construction is now very pretty rapid. That all was therefore gives us concern that in the planning process the electrical connections don't keep up. And that seems to me that one of the big concerns because you're talking about five and thirty year plans and frankly the nature of the planning process means that we might be forced to, or required, to try to work to say to give planning permission very large housing development so the next few years. And the concern is that's not something necessarily the distribution comes to be able to cope with. I think that's the main concern. So it does allow me a bit that these local area of energy plan seem to be so far behind you know that we seem to be only just getting to say to whether being developed when we know as counselors over the next five years a lot more housing is going to come on stream. Before you even start talking about the industry as well around the area we know that there's going to be no industry moving in because of the motorway connection. So I suppose the question is I mean how quickly can these connections be provided? I mean how far are you aware of what's happening in local councils because it's obviously not just this local council but it's our neighbours next door that affects the connectivity. You presume you don't operate on council boundaries, you operate on business boundaries and business geographical boundaries. So what is needed from councils to provide you with necessary supports because it seems to me you're going to need quite an advanced notice for some of these large scale plans. The earlier that we get to know about those sites are better so when they're in planning and you can come to us for a connection service surgery and on those connection surgeries don't always talk about the specific site but we talk about the area to know if you're off the network and you need to know if there's any constraints. We've got a lot of data that we share out there. The mapping data is probably the best to look at but yeah I mean that's why we're having this engagement. The local area energy plan which is just like we just started on this journey is probably going to take about 18 months with the rest of the council so it's very early days. The reason that there are fewer in our footprint apart from what take Wales out of the equation is the funding that's required to produce the local area in Japan. There's a lack of funding, they're not mandatory at the moment and so that's why Leicestershire have gone by the Innovate UK route and secured the funding through them. They've got the consultants and energy systems capital port on board and yeah so it's the first local area in Japan that I've been involved because like I say in our English footprint apart from maybe Cornwall. There hasn't really been much action with the local area and there is one for Lichtenberg and Stafford but that was produced about 18 months ago. But if you go across the border into Wales this time last year the Welsh development they gave the funding. So go ahead, two DNOs get your local area in Japan completed and have it completed by now. And that will then feed back towards and we will then check it against the data that we've got. So that's why they're important the local area in Japan and it's really good that Leicestershire secured this for a little bit because the districts will feed into that at some point. I mean it seems to me as though these local area energy plans are absolutely essential and it's surprising they're not the statutory requirement despite the planning process because clearly you know if you haven't got electricity you've got serious problems. But anyway my other question was really about the unpredictable nature of network development. When you've got a five year plan you've got the associate 30 year plan you mentioned in terms of your projections but I just wonder how you actually do the modelling. If you can tell me a bit more about that process because I'm just thinking about the issue of transport alone. I mean the car manufacturing companies of course were very concerned a few months ago when the government changed its plans for phasing out bachelor and diesel cars which has obviously an impact on EV take up potentially. Many factors themselves in recent last 12 months have been represented apparently about EV sales. So there's certain unpredictability about how EVs will be taken up. There's also evidence that EVs take up various enormously across different social and economic groups in different areas. I mean that data is there in the public rather than people to see. And on top of that you've got the question of course about public transport. In particular in this area the desire to electrify the midlands main line that is something that's coming on stream and clearly has potentially quite a big impact on network distribution and demand and quite a very large number of upgrades. Particularly if it goes beyond midlands main line. So could you tell us a bit more about the modelling process though and reassure us perhaps because this has been awful of guesswork even amongst the biggest brains on EVs and on network development. How is this going to go? Six months to the west next to the guy who's doing is just producing a network development plan for these midlands. Peter Gaskin is a really good guy to get on a call because he knows he knows he is midlands really. The back of his hand he has been involved in this new plan. I had him on a call last week with Lincolnshire and he gave that kind of assurance really of the planning process and what the work he's been doing over the last two years. So I think it would be a good idea for maybe Peter to come to a group like this and talk about. We are having webinars but it would be good for him to come because he was really used along this call at the heart for the wider area. But I think the actual planning process, the network development plan is actually out for the next 10 years. So we're planning for the next 10 years and like I say every two years it's updated. But in between time we're continually updating it because we're receiving lots of new data from local authorities and other data sets. So we're continually doing it. It doesn't just stop now. So I think the reassurance is there. Well maybe a few years ago before the day so was established and it was very much connections driven. That's all changed. It's audio knows it's not just stores. So we're planning for the future. We want you to be able to connect whatever you want and that network will be there already waiting. So that network development plan is the crux of it or it's those 10 years early. It certainly sounds like the strategic planning side is growing and developing and it's one of those classic cases of if we'd have known what we know now. We'd have started 10 years ago but we are where we are and we all need to make the best of it. I think we're quite lucky that we've got less to share taking the lead there and we need to plug into that and I'm sure that planning colleagues are doing just that at a strategic level so that's good. Any other questions at all from any members? My list is more just a technical question Sharon. How much year on year do we think the increase in electricity need is going to be to be of any idea? Going forward we're going to be using more electricity. Do you have any idea what the increase in the electricity need is going to be over the next 10 years? Thanks Chris. Sharon, just a very easy one really. You mentioned about the webinar and of course I've made a joke about the 13th but seriously I would like to attend one of them. So the ones that are scheduled for summer 24 if you could communicate them to us. I'd very much like to engage in that. If you can't attend the one for the Deepest on the 13th of June, they actually just go on YouTube. I think we can actually go on our website and for quite a while they're actually sitting there. I won't have them on, we've got a designated page now for local energy planning for local authorities which has only been produced probably in the last four to six weeks. So we're trying to bring everything together on our website for local authorities or the data or the latest information. We've sent out a newsletter recently so you'll be able to go on there, it'll be sitting on there. For quite a while I would imagine. Okay so if I go to your website it should be on there. I'll send some links up as and when to yourself and then you can just follow it and I'll put it out if you don't mind. Brilliant, yes that's, we can certainly make sure that that happens for anybody that's interested. Okay, any other questions at all? No? Well I'll draw this session to a close then and I'd like to thank you so much for coming along Sharon. I know we've asked you all sorts of questions some of which have been at the edge of your scope. If not outside of it but again that's our learning in terms of who covers what and who comes along to these things. I can get anybody to come along to these meetings. If I've been seeing the network development plan and you've attended the webinar and you feel you want some more guidance then I can get one of the engineers Peter to come along and I'm sure he'll come and talk about the network development plan for these meetings and particularly Leicester shows there. And I'll throw that back to colleague Councillors if anybody does want to add another item related to this onto the work programme we discuss this at every meeting so please feel free to do so. Can I thank you most sincerely? You're welcome to stay however. [laughter] Okay if we can move on then to item eight on the agenda. The Parrish and Hinkley Community Initiative Fund allocation of grants. Is this yourself Paul? Yes? All right. Paul please. Thank you. Okay thank you very much. So we've had 13 applications this year. Obviously this is a lot fewer than we've had in the past but that is a reflection on the fact that we carried out the review last year and the main change was that we now only fund applications that are of a value of £5,000 or more. So bigger projects but obviously we've had fewer applications in but we think that obviously each of the applications that have come in have scored 60 or above against the criteria so 60 out of 100 against the criteria so they've all scored highly. So from that perspective we're looking at funding each of the 13 applications a total funding allocation of £91,892. So we're looking for support for that and also that we've got seven applications from last year which hadn't been able to be completed. So we're looking to carry forward some funding from last year's budget to cover the cost of those at £11,374.60. So that's really sort of summarising what's on the report so if anyone's got any questions. Thank you Paul, a very clear report that outlines what we do and how we do it and as a council we're very lucky that we're still in the position towards these grants and it's being done very transparently so thank you for your report. Do we have any questions from anybody about the report, Councillor Crooks. Thank you very much, Mr Chairman, I just would like to ask Paul, the one on the climate implications where, unfortunately, the new Bauverton parish council's clerk forgot to get the application in time, will that still be available next year? Yes, it will. In a word, not altogether. No, no, I'm sure that I'm not sure of the exact details of the application, Councillor Crooks, but I'm sure that if it's, obviously if it meets the key criteria and it's above £5,000 in the value. Well, it was for solar panels. If it's solar panels, then yes, I'm sure that would be fine. Yes, that would be fine, we'll look at that one next year. Thank you very much indeed. Thank you, Paul. Any other questions at all from anybody? Councillor, just a quick comment, Chair, just saying how welcome it is for a whole range of projects around our community, this funding is actually still available, which I'm sure will be great for you to receive by those who are in the report tonight, and to say I obviously won't be voting as I have an interest in one of the projects. Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Paul. Yes, thanks for the report, Paul. I think it's important that we subtly get the message out to all parishes that everybody that applied this year was given a grant. And we want to encourage those people that aren't used to making the applications to come forward, because it's really worthwhile. And we make sure that we spread the grants over the whole, the parish position, because you don't get very much for £5,000 these days, I'm afraid. And so every small parish council probably can come up with a very good scheme, and it's not that dire if we get more applications that don't quite meet the criteria, but that we get that breadth coming through. So well done for all of the applications that came through this time, and we just need to get the message out there, get your applications in. Just to remind us, sorry, that the smaller items are now being covered by the community equipment grants. So a lot of the ones that haven't been funded through the parishing community fund, we're now getting applications in through the smaller community equipment grant, which covers a lot of those small ones. And we've had about 20 of those in so far, which we're processing as officers. Thank you. There's no other questions, just one from me. Can you just remind me who's actual decision is it? If we've been asked to endorse this, so who's actual decision is it, who gets these grants? Yeah, it goes to SLT initially, and then comes to scrutiny for endorsement, and then it will go back to SLT for final sort of agreement. Yeah, yeah, that's how it usually works, yeah. Cheers, thank you. Right, if there's no more questions, we can move then to the recommendations. So, the scrutiny commission endorses the funding allocation of £91,892 for the schemes detailed in 3.3. And two, that the scrutiny commission supports allowing seven previous year schemes, totalling in £11,374.60 to be completed and continue to be funded as detailed in section 3.4. Do I have anybody prepared to... I'll propose that. Thank you, seconded by Council 30s. All those in favour? Lovely. Thank you. All right, thank you very much, Paul. All right. Okay, that moves us on then to the environmental improvements program, 24/25. Welcome back, Daniel. All right, over to you to take us through the report. Thank you. Good evening, members. So, as you may be aware, the environmental improvement program has been running successfully for a number of years now. The purpose of this report is to outline the program for the 2024/25 program. Recommendation is that the scrutiny notes the schemes and the appendix 1 for this financial year. The Borough Council's environmental improvement program consists of small-scale heritage conservation-related improvement schemes across the whole of the borough. The 12 schemes in appendix 1 is within the 35,000 budget available and appendix 2 outlines the project's progress for last year's program and appendix 3 provides some photographs of those projects. Thank you very much. Thank you, Daniel. Another very clear report and very welcome given the scale of what's involved. Any questions, members, for Daniel, please? At the back with Council, wait a minute, please. Hello. Thanks, Daniel, for the report. Really, really pleased to see the Ashby Canal on that report. Do we have any idea when it's going to happen, who will be doing it, how we arrived at the money? They will let me know the program time scale, so I can pass those on if you wanted to know them. Yes, please. And if we can find out the extent of the work, it's something that's raised quite regularly with myself. Yeah, I do have that already, so I can send the details of the proposal. That would be really welcome. Thank you so much. Thank you. Council given. Thank you. I just wanted to say this was a really excellent report, actually, because I love the way that you've included all the imagery in it as well in terms of that. I'm really interested in what you're going to do with the remaining £29.98 of your budget, though, and I'm poking. But seriously, this is one of a lovely report to read, so thank you. Awesome. Thank you. Daniel? Yeah. Councillor COW. Thanks, Chris. I'd like to support what Anne was saying about the canal, because I use the canals myself from time to time. We met with Anil. Can't think of Anil's surname now, but from the canal. That's a bit interesting, yes. And he's very keen for us to engage, so it's really good news on that. The arts and jitties, I'm really interested in that, because being an old hinkly in myself, I'm always very conscious of the fact that we've got these jitties, and it's nice to see that being done. I would like to ask a question, though, and whether we can answer it or not, I don't know. But the blue plaques, when the old police station was closed, there was a plaque inside there, inside the police station, for Marjorie Payne. And it was installed, I can't remember whether it's installed in one of the courtrooms, or whether it was actually in the police station itself. But I was asked recently, by one of my old historian friends, as to what happened to it, and I haven't got a clue. So it would be really nice to find out, because then we could probably mount it on the outside of the building, and it would also be for Marjorie Payne as well. I'm not sure that that's within Daniel's scope knowledge, a very valid question. I'm sure the officers will take that one away and report back to you, Councillor Cough. All right, but yeah, it is a valid point. All right. Councillor Nore. I'm not sure if this is entirely in your scope of your work either, Daniel, but on following on the jitties issue, years ago, when my previous period on the council, we talked about using the jitties as part of, almost like a touristic offer for hinkly. We could be able to explore them, to find their way around the town, to produce material and publicity around it. And we did that to some degree, I think we've remembered with the Druid Quarter. I just wonder if there are any sort of plans to renew that initiative. It did seem to be quite a good idea. It's a unique, not exactly a unique feature, but a very important feature of hinkly. And I do think it's quite an interesting way of encouraging people to visit the town, and to explore the parts of the town, they went to the wise visit. So yeah, I totally agree, jitties is quite unique to hinkly in some ways. We're doing a lot of interpretation work as part of Heritage Axon's own as well, on the jitties. We do, I believe, have one of the heritage brochure leaflets, mentions the jitties as well that we've done not too long ago, so I could send you a copy of that if you wanted as well. But yeah, anything we can do to highlight the importance of them, welcome. Councillor interjecting. Thank you very much, Chair. First of all, thank you, Daniel, for the report, and I'm very pleased to note that the old shelter lines have got some support for restoring the former Toons' Clerk, which for those who don't know is actually a warm memorial as well. Just one question is the first item, which is the Burrawide Project, Financial Contributions to Conservation Areas. But potentially if you can have a little bit more detail, sort of buy each area that might be helpful in sort of maybe a future report. Thank you. Okay. Any other questions to talk around as Paul? Just to say that I personally went and visited the two new plaques on Tuesday or Wednesday just to check them out. I know they've not formally been unveiled yet, which we're hoping to do. But I would encourage everybody to have a wander around the centre of the town and just look up to see what's around there because the jitties are all named, which apart from the two that's referred to in the report. So there's lots of jitties and they've all got the names on there. So I really encourage people to go around and have a look around the town centre. But also coming back to the Blue Packs, both of the new plaques this year are in Hintley. And I would put a plea out to anybody that there must be in Markfield, in Desford. Yeah, there must be plenty of candidates that can be brought forward so that we can have a broader spectrum. It's not that we've just chosen Hintley. We just didn't have the nominations coming forward. Thank you. Any other questions at all? No? Okay. The recommendation on this report is that scrutiny notes the enhancement schemes, appendix one, to be implemented in the financial year 24-25 as the environmental improvement program. Do we need to propose a second that? It's for noting, isn't it? So I don't think we do. So everybody happy to note the report? Yes? Okay. Thank you all. And thank you, Daniel. All right. Thank you. Okay. That takes us on to item 10 on the agenda. A comprehensive introduction to the new regulatory arrangements. I need to declare my interest in that I've just been working with Meltonboro Council to take them through this very process now. Thank you. It's me. Thank you, Chair. Good evening all. So the purpose of the report is to update you in terms of legislative requirements imposed by the Social Housing Regulation Act 2023. And more importantly, the Housing Services Services performance and compliance with it. The report also sets out what we can expect in terms of inspections going forward. And finally, we seek your endorsement in relation to the revised dump and mall policy, which is set out in Appendix C. So we're remembering where the legislation originated from, which was, of course, the Grenfell Tower tragedy back in 2017. And this tragic event was really the catalyst for a period of intense scrutiny into the housing sector, as it was felt that was a distinct imbalance between the relationship between tenant and landlord. And certainly that register provides us lacked accountability and transparency. So consequently, since then we've seen the green paper, the white paper, the social housing chart of attendance, which is all culminated in the Social Housing Regulation Act. So the purpose of the Act is really to improve the lives of social housing tenants and the three principal objectives to it, which are to facilitate a new proactive consumer regulation regime, to refine the existing economic regulatory regime, and to strengthen the regulator of social housing's powers to enforce the consumer and economic regimes. And so the vast majority of our efforts in meeting this regulation is around the consumer standards, and worth noting that there have always been standards that registered providers, including local authorities, must follow. In terms of the economic standard, it is the rent standard which is applicable to all local authorities. The other two standards are only relevant to other registered providers and housing associations. And the consumer standards, which are set out in 3.5 as a report, have been condensed to four key standards, which are the safety and quality standard, the transparency influence and accountability standard, the neighborhood and community standard, and the tenancy standards. And Appendix A provides an action plan for the service, which also sets out a self-assessment tool, which is very much a live document and a work in progress really in terms of each other. And part of that, in terms of the transparency influence and accountability standard, there is a requirement now in terms of tenant satisfaction measures, or TSMs. And as of the 1st of April, we've been expected to collect and publish these TSMs, and quite probably this is going to be the first place that any inspector is likely to look. And the TSMs are designed to see how landlords are doing in terms of keeping property in good repair, maintaining building safety, how respectful and helpful, in terms of respectful and helpful engagement, effective handling of complaints and responsible neighborhood management. And Appendix B provides further summary of our TSM results. To collect the TSM results, we commissioned House Mart to undertake them as we wanted to ensure that we could be impartial and show transparency. And the TSM survey undertaken by House Mart equates to a survey to a damper mold project to really try to drive up standards, both in terms of the private sector and the social sector in terms of our approach to damper mold. The Act also introduces a requirement to have a designated safety lead and 4.5 the report outlines further information around this. 4.6 references the new requirements around qualifications that housing managers and executives are now required to have. And again, we're working to identify who those officers will be. 4.7 refers to resident engagement, which as you might expect is again an integral element of the legislation. And over the last 12 months, the housing service has been working to improve opportunities for tenant involvement. A number of key roles have been developed and recruited to, which will ensure that tenants have the opportunity to inform and shape service delivery. Appendix F provides an overview of tenant engagement over the last 12 months, which has been led by a service development team. A tenant influence and scrutiny panel is also being finalised, which is intended to empower tenants to hold the council accountable for the quality and delivery of its housing services and to give tenants a voice in the management and maintenance of council homes. In terms of complaint handling, again, a key requirement of that, the Act places the housing ombudsman's complaint handling code on a statutory basis from April 2024, along with giving them the ability to intervene and delivery with annual reports to be published on landlord's performance. Another key element to the legislation is proactive enforcement. The serious detriment test has now been removed from the consumed standards for social housing, which means that the regulator is now not required to have a reason to believe that a breach regulation has occurred before they react, but rather that they can take a proactive approach. The regulator has new powers to authorise persons to end promises to take emergency remedial works where a social landlord has failed to do so. So what can we expect in terms of a future inspection regime? Hopefully the chair will give us some insight, but certainly we can expect to be inspected every four years. And certainly what we know is that hopefully what we know is that there will be a kind of a co-regulatory approach and a kind of an approach where if we're willing to work with the regulator, we can take advice really and avoid some of the sanctions that we could look at otherwise, which could be unlimited fines, performance improvement plans, and the ability to remove senior managers and rear point with a regulator's choice. So areas to improve for us, complaints handling, and as you will note from Appendix C, our satisfaction measures in relation to complaint handling sit around 46.5%. So this is a key area of improvement and perhaps an opportunity to link in more corporately around service improvements and best practice. Another challenge for us around maintaining diverse needs information, what we do know is that over 8% of all allocations made out of tenants or household of additional needs, so ensuring appropriate support and services is essential to ensure that we remain accessible and that we meet the needs of our tenants. Again, challenges here in relation to current IT and noting in Section 5 that there are likely to be cost implications in relation to system upgrades to ensure we compliant in this aspect. Overall, I think we demonstrate full or partial compliance with most aspects of the legislation, with excellent asset management data, strong partnerships with buyer partners such as the police, the ICB, and the voluntary community sector, and we continue to flex those deliveries and meet the needs of our customers, such as our welfare support services. We also have 100% decency levels across our housing stock and given that 89.9% of tenants surveyed during the TSM felt that the homes were safe, I think this is a good start really for us in terms of the origin of the legislation. Thank you. Thank you very much for that, Madi, comprehensive report. Questions, Councillor ALLAN. Thank you very much, Chair. Just a couple of points, if I may. First of all, one of the things that's really interesting is the neighbourhood and community standard. As Madi will be painfully aware, quite a lot of the traffic that comes through the MP's office is tenants who maybe don't get on with each other. All the acts actually provide any sort of teeth or further measures which will make available to you to actually try and deal with that. Then the second one is the damper mould one, which is quite interesting. Quite often it's actually the tenant who's failing to sort of ventilate the property properly. So it's not just a case of actually carrying out repairs, there's potentially quite an educational aspect to that one. Is that something we're looking at as well? Thank you, Chair. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. No, thank you. So in terms of the antisocial behavior element, I think what we're probably looking at really is it's probably more incumbent on registered providers, I suppose, because I think from our perspective, a local authority perspective, we already have a statutory requirement to have a community safety partnership and consequently lots of work in terms of antisocial behaviour and lots of work in terms of working with partners such as the police really. So I think we're in good stead to do that, but certainly in terms of registered providers, there is certainly more expectation to work with partner agencies, which, you know, from some of the emails, I think that can only be a good thing. Yeah. And the second point in relation to damper moulds. Again, a significant amount of work from offices really in terms of getting us to a good place really in terms of identifying where damper mould is, but also actually thinking about supporting tenants because, you know, for me, I think one of the challenges for people is around fuel poverty and actually having stock that, you know, is fit for purpose really so that we're not putting people in, you know, at risk of fuel poverty, so insulating our homes, decolonisation, all of these strands of work and certainly, you know, noting your point around, I don't know, the way tenants live, perhaps, or people live, I think, you know, inevitably everybody will get dumped or moulded in their home or condensation at any point. You know, it's just a fact, really, and it is very much about understanding the use of a property, but actually resisting terminology such as lifestyle, I suppose. So I think, you know, the housing sector has certainly been on a journey really to refrain from using language that kind of suggests this fault really to try and, again, get that balance really in support and working together, I suppose. OK. Thank you, Mandy. Just a brief question. Have we noticed this an increase in damp along with the cost of living? Has that significantly made a difference on damping the local properties? I think it's probably fair to say that because we're, along with everybody else, trying to be proactive currently, we are getting more and more reports of damper mould, really. And I think, you know, one of the things I'm keen to do is to understand some of the cost implications to that, really, because it is quite, you know, a lot of work, really, in terms of office of time, but also remedial action, really, and revisiting to make sure that we're supporting people. And we do link in to why the team, such as our cost of living team, really, to try and help people to think about, you know, fuel poverty. So I don't think it's probably as easy for us to say categorically that we're seeing an increase because of cost of living, because I think we're just only starting to record it in a better way, if that makes sense. Thank you, yes. Any other questions at all? I think also some excellent work been done here, and I think hopefully I'll make some real progress. I suppose all of my concern, ever new legislation comes in, there's a new body of regulation that counts it, whether it's good. It does impose extra costs, obviously, on the council. Do we know the extent of those extra costs that have been imposed on the council? What extra time has been required, what new resources have been required to actually implement this legislation? And do we see those costs increasing over time? Because, clearly, there is an intensive inspection regime here that is going to be implemented on a regular basis. I think probably it's something we could get better at in terms of thinking about time and portionment, and cost, as I say, in terms of damper mold. We're getting quite good, I suppose, at trying to quantify costs around work and time in relation to that. But more generally, I think we haven't done that necessarily, and I think going forward it's something to consider. I think there will be investment in terms of capital investment that we'll need to do to meet it in terms of our systems. So, again, costs there really, and then time in terms of training and expectation. I think, you know, we're on a journey, I hate to use that phrase, but I think there is so much for us to kind of learn and take on board and for staff to kind of learn and take on board in terms of this approach, really, without that going to take, you know, someone's really, to embed the kind of culture that we want, really. And I think, you know, I like to think that we're kind of there in terms of the culture that we have, which is really positive in terms of some of this. We do put our tenants' needs first, but, you know, equally, we can't be complacent, and we've got to kind of learn from us, really, in terms of what we need to do going forward. And the other cost, of course, which is the £4.97 per property that we have to pay for being part of the new regime. And that isn't an option that's a requirement. Thanks, Chris. I really just wanted to back up what, in actual fact, what Richard has said, and also James as well about the dam issues and, of course, the cost of living crisis. And I've always felt that housing has been one of the more challenging services on the council because having been involved with it in the past, myself, I've been very aware of that. And, of course, this report is very thorough. The only question I got is that as the years roll on, and I've become painfully aware of that, our properties also get older. And, of course, the challenge is facing us in keeping them up to standard and up to the current legislation that's required. I just get more and more difficult for us. So it was just a question, really, about that challenge. I mean, obviously, I can see very clearly from the report we've got in front of us. It's very succinct, you know, and it's very encouraging. The only part of it that I was interested in was our relationship with the other providers, whether it's a good relationship or whether it's still a little bit challenged as it has been in the past. No, the real question was all about the older properties, but thank you for the report. Excellent. Thank you. So I think, again, there are competing priorities with all of this as always, and there is investment that we need to do to ensure that our stock is fit for purpose, that we look to decarbonise our stock. And, you know, we have limited funding is the bottom line. And I think, certainly, in terms of funding that we've been able to access, you know, in terms of government funding, we do that where we can, and we'll continue to do that. But this is, you know, one of many kind of priorities for us, really, with limited funds to achieve it all, I suppose. Okay. Thank you. Councillor Croups. Thank you, Chris. I just would like to ask, Madi, if obviously local authorities are monitored and so on, who is going to monitor the private landlords to make sure that they keep up with the regulations? Is there a body there that can check them? So that's us, the Council, our private sector housing team, we've been the housing at those powers, and that's what they do all day long. And certainly in terms of, you know, complaints, we've seen an increase in complaints for our private sector housing team in terms of damper mold. I think it's difficult because, I mean, we were talking yesterday about the number of, you know, private rented properties in the borough and how that's more than our council properties and registered providers into that as well. And I think, you know, when you think about the small team that we've got, it's the challenge. Thank you. Any other questions at all? Yes. Thanks. Just obviously to note the comprehensiveness of this report, it's significantly a lot of work has gone into this that we can see and so forth. I'm pleased to see that you've got reference here to the fact that you want to make sure that to help with the complaints that you're actually putting in, hopefully, some funding that we can get to support officers and obviously getting upscaled and straining so forth. I seriously hope that IT services also will support the potential upgrade because it will save time and money over the long run because it means that officers can actually do their job while they're out in place and so forth. And just to note that the work that's gone into the complaint handling stuff, I have got every confidence in both yourself and Sharon that, you know, complaint handling is top of your agenda in terms of what's been happening in other areas that I've seen so far. So just to say, thank you for making sure that's there. Thank you. Appreciate that. Okay. Right. Me then. Okay. Two questions and two comments. If I, I'll take the questions one at a time if that's all right. The TSM scores are exceptional. I hope you're very, very proud of those. That's something we're just starting to look into. But I guess my starting point is that would be that our stock is in good condition. Pretty much, you know, we're 100% decent. We have a very dedicated team, a very responsive team, and I like to think that some of that is kind of borne out where there are issues where, you know, people are on it. Really, I would like to think that, you know, that's just me speculating. There's no science behind that. It's a feeling and you're closer to it than us. And so it's, thank you for sharing that. It's helpful. There are 10 other 10 satisfaction measures, which are not included in the report. It will be helpful for, again, given what I've just been through. It would be very helpful if the visibility of those was as clear as the, as the, the other measures. So I'd welcome those being brought before scrutiny at an appropriate time for you, for you to determine tenant involvement is absolutely critical to a successful inspection outcome. So that's certainly learning from recent events. I noticed the creation of the new panel. What's the timetable for that actually evolving? So, I think, again, tenant involvement has been something that's been quite inconsistent, erratic, really, and certainly since COVID, we've kind of, you know, lost some of the traditional engagement, really. So I think we've done quite well, really, to try and galvanize the approach again. And so currently we've got seven willing tenants to be involved in the scrutiny panel, which is fantastic and, again, credit to officers that are involved in that. What I really want to think about is how I kind of look at member involvement really into that going forward. So we've got that kind of, you know, that, that relationship and, again, that, that check, really. So I guess I just need to kind of think about that further and then hopefully, you know, within a couple of months will be good to kind of take it forward, really. Thank you. My two comments, firstly, the complaints, having the, having the lower satisfaction level for complaints, I'm pretty sure that question is going to change because at the moment it's not, I don't think it's clear to people whether they're being asked about whether they were happy with the way their complaint was handled or the outcome of their complaint. And quite often the outcome of the complaint is not what they want. And that leaves a latent dissatisfaction, which they then share by responding negatively to this question. So I think, again, that made change. It was one of the comments. And the other one was just to say that your damp and mold approach is exemplary. I've seen a lot of them and I've not seen one better. So, all right. Well, thank you. To all from anybody before we move on. Okay. Well, we have a number of recommendations on the report and my computer has locked itself. So if you'll just bear with me one second. It's a long report. Okay. So four recommendations then at 2.123 and four in the report that members note the new requirements of the Social Housing Regulation Act members note the progress of the Council's housing service in meeting new legislative requirements. Members support and endorse the damp and mold policy and that members note the new inspection regime's introduction and the expectation that the Council housing service could be inspected every four years. Proposed by Councillor Cook, seconded by Councillor Cope. All those in favour? Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. We now move on to item 11, which are the minutes of the finance and performance scrutiny meeting of the 18th of March. I've upset Miriam now because she had them all ready to go and make her lose her place. So anything that you wanted to say to add to the minutes? At the last finance and performance and I still haven't got them up, we had a report from Caroline on her entire organisation that she runs and it seemed to be running exceedingly well. It was quite interesting that if you actually went into the financial figures further on in the report, actually she is the one area that was actually meeting and beating targets financially, so that was actually quite good. Otherwise everything else was as expected and I still haven't got the report. All right, do we have any questions from the minutes of finance and performance? No, I think we're just noting these rather than needing to formally accept them. Okay, thank you, Miriam. Just to be finished now. Okay, that takes us on to item 12, which is the minutes of the housing task and finish group. Chair of the group, Councillor Crooks, was there anything that you wish to add by way of introduction to these? And we now have had the second meeting, so they will follow through to the minutes we'll follow through to the next meeting. We were lucky that we actually finished at 1.30, we could have been there till 3 o'clock, I can assure you, but the information that we gained from that, you will have a report obviously of it, but there were some things that came out of that that you would have noted. Thank you, that was good, so we're happy to note those as the minutes. Item 13, any other business that the chair has decided to deal with, there are no other meetings, so from that point of view, we then have item 14, which is that we move into private session. Do we have anyone prepared to propose? Councillor ALLAN. Seconded, Councillor Crooks. Can I suggest that as we move into private session, in